Mariano Di Vaio, zimbio.com. So…men can’t be sexy in work clothes? Really?
Carl Gallups, christian pastor and Trumphole had a little chat session with Mike Shoesmith, who wrote a blog post about the sexual assault cases coming to light in Hollywood recently. It seems Mr. Shoesmith is yet another christian mouthpiece. There’s no end of them. Well, this might take a while, so let’s get started:
If a woman wears sexually suggestive clothing around a man is that not also sexual assault? Men are visually stimulated and unwanted stimulation should meet the basic definition of assault. I am not condoning bad behavior by men but women need to understand that by walking around in their little sister’s skirt they are guilty of indecent visual assault on a man’s imagination which does cause mental anguish and torment especially on men who really are trying to live in harmony and respect toward women; something made more difficult when every ripple and curve are exposed to the men around you. Something to think about.
I have some very bad news for you, Mr. Shoesmith – women are also visually stimulated. Most people are, you know. How women dress varies greatly, from one individual to the next, and of course, the context matters. If you suffer terribly from being overstimulated, then pursuing a job as a Hollywood event planner or photographer might not be the job for you. For the most part, people tend to dress appropriately for their particular job. As for women simply going about their business, perhaps you should nudge your tongue back in your mouth, and point your eyeballs somewhere else. Look at the men for a change. Look at cars in the street. Look in storefront windows. Lots of options. Become a major shoe fan, and look at everyone’s feet. This idea that men simply have little to no control is an incredibly toxic lie, which causes a great deal of damage. It should not be enabled in any way. You’re the type of person who would condemn the wearing of burkas, but the way you want women to dress isn’t all that far off. Personally, I think men’s suits are a fantastic look on women, so let’s have a look at women being completely non-sexy, given that they are completely covered up:
Ms. Marlene Dietrich. Looks right sexy to me!
Popsugar.com. Verrrry sexy.
Ralph Lauren. Oooh, hot! I want all three. Quick, someone throw a mass amount of money at me!
The point being, Mr. Shoesmith, it doesn’t fucking matter what women wear, men will find a way to get all unglued about it. What you really want is for women to be dressed as baggy, ugly, and frumpy as possible; just short of the full burka. As for mental torment and anguish, you should have learned a very long time ago that your boner, or lack of one, is your problem alone. You sound like an adolescent trying to convince someone blue balls is real thing, and they’ll just drop off if you don’t let them…
If all women wore suits like the above, you’d complain about all the time you spent being chemically assaulted and mentally stripping them of those clothes.
“When a man sees a naked or partially dressed woman, a chemical reaction happens in his brain,” he continued. “Neurotransmitters like dopamine and serotonin are released, giving him an involuntary surge of pleasure. Notice the word ‘involuntary’ … Men are in a state of constant sexual assault by women who either don’t understand the severity of what they are doing, because it’s cute and they like the attention, or worse, they do know the feelings it stirs and like the control they have over men.”
So, this involuntary surge of pleasure, it doesn’t happen to people of other genders? Just you manly men. Right. Amazingly enough, millions of people manage to control themselves every single day, regardless of all the lovely surges of pleasure walking around. Most people just enjoy the surge of pleasure and get on with their day. Now, I have more bad news – most people dress to please themselves. It’s a little much to demand that everyone think about your tender sensitivities, especially when most people don’t have the slightest idea of who you are, or where you are located in the world. It’s a big place, so deal with it.
Gallups agreed, saying that if a man were to parade around the workplace “in a very sexually suggestive outfit,” women would immediately file sexual harassment claims. He demanded to know, therefore, “why wouldn’t it be sexual assault” when a woman does it.
Let’s define very sexually suggestive outfit first. When it comes to women, a short skirt qualifies as very sexually suggestive. Any hint of breasts, very sexually suggestive. Now, if a man shows up at the office in g-string, yeah, that’s not appropriate. However…
Nitrolicious.com
if I worked in an office, and a colleague dressed like that ^ I would get a serious surge of pleasure. And be impressed. There isn’t anything remotely inappropriate about that outfit, but it’s damn sexy. I would love to see men in kilts all over the place. See, that’s the thing – sexy isn’t defined solely by clothing. There are many factors, and even more factors when it comes to attractiveness. You’re acting as though eye candy is the worst thing ever in the world. It isn’t, and most of us grown ups are adult enough to easily cope with it.
“We are just discussing what should be obvious,” Gallups insisted. “The science supports us in it.”
No, the “science” does not fucking support you! Not in any way. You’re both fucking idiots who don’t have the slightest idea of what you’re attempting to talk about.
“Men are responsible for fighting off this chemical sexual assault in their brains,” Shoesmith agreed. “Men are responsible for fighting that off every day.”
Oooh, chemical assault! I have more news for you – we all share the same damn chemicals, gender doesn’t have anything to do with it. We all have to deal with visual and olfactory stimulation every day. This would be in the water is wet category.
“Yes they are, absolutely,” Gallups responded. “And women need to help the men.”
No, we do not need to help you. Not in any fashion. You need to help yourselves. This is yet more moronic moaning brought to you by christian idiocy. Everyone needs to be so terribly helpless, especially men, even though you’re styled as the leaders and all, because you just can’t manage to think straight if you realize that women have actual bodies. Fuck that noise. With bells on.
I see nothing to indicate that he wants to stop short of the full burka. I’m not even sure if he’s OK with women leaving the house.
I couldn’t agree more. Stick “Sarah Ann Murray” into your image search engine of choice… You can thank me later. ;)
As for what’s “sexually suggestive” in menswear… The whole friggin’ point of men’s tailoring is to accentuate the characteristics normally associated (in our culture) with virility. Those shoulder pads and all that chest canvas aren’t in there for any practical reason. The classic V silhouette of a well-tailored suit is every bit as sexually suggestive as a short skirt.
1. I want them to make those suits work on fat women.
2.
Well, I guess I can always teach online…
Dunc:
You could be right. Most christians stop short of the burka, because that wouldn’t be christian. They want to get very close to it, though.
Giliell:
They do! The key is to pick a style you like, then go for the custom tailoring.
And a burkha would not stop predators like this asshat. In the late 1800s, the sight of a woman’s ankle — an ankle not wrapped in a boot, heavy socks, a long skirt — was considered an invitation to assault. Almost everyone — man, women, gay, hetero, lesbian, transgender, bisexual — finds something sexy. This is a time-honoured tradition: blame the woman, blame the child, blame the one who does not have the social power, blame the one who needs that minimum-wage job, blame everyone but the predators.
And, while writing that, an image came to mind of a leopard explaining that it is the gazelles’ fault that it was cut out of the herd and eaten. Sorry.
Ogvorbis:
Basically, that’s what this bullshit comes down to.
I so agree with #5, Ogvorbis.
I work with goats, which many christians think of as being synonymous with the devil. In particular, male goats, the bucks, get a really bad rap here. And yet! I can take my dairy goat buck to a show and he is perfectly well behaved and well mannered. He does not knock me down (and he very well could, he weighs about twice what I do) and go rampaging around assaulting all the other goats at the show. It seems like goats are capable of learning that they can’t have sex with every single goat they see! Amazing! Too bad christians seem incapable of this simple feat.
I just want to beat him over the head with Bryan Ferry.
Except that’d be a waste of a perfectly good Bryan Ferry.
For many cycles men have done their peacocking in military uniforms and the trappings of power. Why did Napoleon surround himself with gorgeously dressed chasseurs de la garde? It wasn’t because he wanted to fuck them -- it was because they projected his power (somehow*) And why did he wear his simple gray redingote? It projected his power even fucking more, that he could be the lone guy in drab grey in the middle of all that show of finery.
Because that’s part of how I’m bent, I tend to see people who are complaining about how men dress as complaining about their disempowerment or that they want more power. Why did this image have impact? ( https://saciart.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/helmut_newton.jpg ) Newton is portraying a woman -- not as a man -- but as privileged as a man: she’s in the middle of the street, not even bothering to notice anyone else, blocking traffic smoking a cancer-stick, wearing a perfectly custom-fitted $20,000 handmade YSL original outfit. It’d be hard for someone to say that the outfit is unattractive or hangs on her badly -- what upsets people is nothing to do with gender norms in clothing and everything to do with the connection between clothing and demonstration of power. (I know you know that…)
The Ralph Lauren outfits: same thing -- trappings of 1900s elites -- we are used to seeing bankers and Woodrow Wilsons in top hats and frock coats. (The bowler is a tradesman’s hat. I know Lauren’s team know that; they’re just having fun)
I would love to see men in kilts all over the place. See, that’s the thing – sexy isn’t defined solely by clothing.
Is this where I get to chime in and say that Trump would look like a schlub no matter what he wore? **
(*I have no idea how that works, but it does. I suspect it’s a crontrol thing: “look what I have the power to cause others to do!”)
(** Trump’s concern with his hair is a sign of his weakness. Did Napoleon care about his hair? Maybe. But you’d never know. A truly powerful man would shave it bald and order everyone on his staff to do likewise then he’d occasionally don a great gold beehive wig to show that he could.)
Dunc:
I see nothing to indicate that he wants to stop short of the full burka. I’m not even sure if he’s OK with women leaving the house.
He wants nothing but for women to be completely disempowered. The clothing is just an indicator.
Something about clothing and power:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/12/Vereshagin.Napoleon_near_Borodino.jpg
“…men who really are trying to live in harmony and respect toward women; something made more difficult when every ripple and curve are exposed…”
Dude, I am not sure you understand the concepts of harmony and respect.
He reminds me of Christians who can “respect gays ” as long as we conceal our not-straightness. He can respect women as long as we conceal our not-maleness.
Marcus:
I have a crazy weakness for frock coats. Holy shit, did men ever look fabulous in them. Same for top hats. The top hat I have. In one of the earliest Basil Rathbone Holmes movies, they’re dressed in frock coats and top hats. I get weak in the knees every time I see Basil Rathbone walking down a street in a top hat and frock coat.
Whirlwitch:
:Snort: Yep.
Caine@#12:
get weak in the knees every time I see Basil Rathbone walking down a street in a top hat and frock coat.
If you haven’t seen “Mr Holmes” -- make a point of grabbing it (and if media is a problem LMK and I’ll mail you a DVD) It’s Ian McKellen playing the aging Sherlock, wandering about in full regency kit. The costumers must have been squeeing at the opportunity, and they pulled out all the stops for sure.
Frock coats are actually a way of concealing middle-age spread. It’s a youth cue -- that’s why matadors and hussars wear the tight pants and short jackets.
Hm. Last year I had a help in lab who happened to be a very attractive 24 year old woman a head shorter than both me and my (also cis-het-male) colleague. She wore occasionaly very low-cut t-shirt, which, I will not lie to you, has put a strain on our eye muscles when we were talking to her. And sometimes I might have had steam pouring out of my ears.
But somehow we attempted to do our job every day, not leering at her, not making sexist jokes at her and definitively not assaulting her in any way or form. And again, I will not lie to you -- we did talk about her a little. But somehow the phrase “chemical assault” has never crossed our minds.
Drat. Not “attempted to do our job” but “managed to do our job”.
Marcus:
I own it. :D
Charly @ 16:
You mean you acted like adults? How dare you, that’s betraying all men!
This kook has one of the older entries in The Encyclopedia of American Loons (all emphasis in the original):
The embedded link to RationalWiki on PPSIMMONS will reward someone who has first carefully strapped pillows to their forehead:
The kook apparently took exception to the above-excerpted RationalWiki article and “posted a point-by-point on his blog that makes for an hilarious read.” There is a link to the at RationalWiki (I won’t link to the eejit here), and it is indeed hilarious. As just one example: — but manages to conclude with a correct statement — “and quite honestly neither do most women.” Strangely, nothing is bellowed about what any men think (or more accurately, what this kook claims they think)…
The only issue these types of Christian have with the likes of the Taliban is that they’re Muslim. If the Taliban were Christian, they’d have so much support from the US it would be terrifying.
Tabby Lavalamp:
Oh yes. And the religious reich is working on that, right now. They just want their own version.
Sexism aside (for now), what the hell is this “involuntary chemical release” bullshit? Is Shoesmith under the impression that it’s normally a controlled process? Does he think that if he sees something he chooses to have photoreceptors react? What about the neurotransmitters behind smelling? This “reasoning” would label existing at all a bunch of different forms of assault, and while I don’t particularly expect these people to be able to think through their own arguments to any real degree this is impressively bad.
Sexism not aside, the jump from the term sexual harassment when a behavior is done by men to sexual assault for the exact same behavior by women is something special.
The god botherer should prey to his fictional deity to give him some fucking self control.
From experience, I can promise her that when I look at a woman I find attractive, I experience neither anguish nor torment. And I am indeed a man trying to live in harmony with and respect for women.
Marlene was magnificent.
What do I hear her thinking in that photo?
“You may take your little photograph and then get out of my way. I have things to do.”
This time last year, I taught classes of young refugees, between 18 and 25.
They were predominantly male, all impeccably groomed and some of them were damn good looking. One of them had more than a crush on me*. I still managed to do my job, do it well and stay professional. I considered “spending time with good looking young men” a perk of the job, not some form of assault.
*That would have become a problem if I had stayed there. We would have needed to teach him to keep his distance.
It’s worth remembering that they did have a great deal of support from the US, for quite a long time.
The only significant ideological difference between American conservative Christians and the Taliban that I can think of is regarding the paternity of Jesus.
BTW, almost all of the quotes there from this asshole are warning signs for a harasser/sexual assaulter/rapist.
Matthew 5:27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away; it is better for you to lose one of your members than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.[l] 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better for you to lose one of your members than for your whole body to go into hell.[m]
There is one member in particular that might tempt you to sin, but it would be vulgar to mention it in a speech, so Jesus speaks instead of the eye and hand. But he seems to really mean it, when he speaks of making yourself a eunuch for the Kingdom of Heaven’s sake. (Matthew 19:11-12). In other words, the Christian solution for male lust is male castration.
I once encountered a chap who was turned on by woolly tights. It really doesn’t matter what a woman wears any more than it matters what a man wears, as long as it is safe for where you are (eg don’t expose lots of flesh in a forge where there are hot metal sparks flying around), you wear what you want. It may be that others will take pleasure in the way you look, but as long as all they do is look politely that’s good.
Express shipping that outfit the first picture of the guy depicts.
I assume I will look exactly as good.
You can have the outfit, but express post the guy himself to me, please.
ParaLess:
Assuming you chose the correct sizes for your pretend parcel, I would assume you would look most dandy. Perhaps even snazzy. As sarcastic attempts to make a point go, you merit one eyeroll.