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Aug 16 2013

Gandhi

I am watching Gandhi on an Indian TV. Today is the Independence Day of India. TV channels are celebrating the day. Gandhi is the father of the nation. Showing Gandhi is part of their celebration. Gandhi is an award winning well produced well directed film. The film won eight Academy Awards for Best Picture, Best Director (Richard Attenborough), Best Original Screenplay (John Briley) etc. The film also got Golden Globe Award for Best Foreign Language Film.

I always wonder how the film got so many awards when an important part of Gandhi’s life was ignored. Who knows why the film did not show Gandhi’s sex experiments or Celibacy tests! Gandhi’s sex life is very important to know Gandhi the person. Gandhi started sleeping and bathing naked with young naked girls since 1906. He continued to do that until his death in 1948. 16 to 19 years old young girls were forced to sleep with him every night. Manuben, one of the girls who had to sleep with him, wrote her diaries. She described how she was cursed if she ever hesitated to get naked. Gandhi got angry with her whenever she expressed her desire to marry someone. It was possible for Gandhi to do whatever he liked because he was extremely popular and also because Indian society was deeply misogynistic. There was no proof that those girls were not molested by Gandhi. The girls were asked to keep their mouths shut.

Gandhi also used the girls as his walking sticks.

Mohandas K. Gandhi ;Manilal Gandhi ;Mrs. Kanu Gandhi;Pyarelal;Sita Gandhi;Sushila Pai;Raj Kumari

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  1. 1
    sc_770d159609e0f8deaa72849e3731a29d

    Gandhi was a mixture of greatness and absurdity. The film concentrated on the aspects that were comprehensible and attractive to British audiences. His celibacy tests were a trivial part of what he did, from that angle, though revealing about himself and Indian culture. http://george-orwell.org/Reflections_of_Ghandi/0.html is the best- and most generous- short essay I know.

  2. 2
    wtfwhatever

    Because cunt, it was 1982, and the US was coming out of Vietnam and Watergate and the storytellers told a story of a man of peace and integrity that America could look towards in order to reshape itself and revalidate itself as a country of peace, honor, and integrity?

    But what you are saying bitch, is not knew. Since 1982, all of this has become widely known.

    So what’s your fucking point except demonstrating your head is up your ass?

    1. 2.1
      wtfwhatever

      Not just Vietnam and Watergate, but of course America was only 14 years after the assassinations of MLK and RFK, and the US was struggling mightily with the Civil Rights movement. There was civil unrest. There was enormous inequality still in the inner cities.

      On the International front there was the Iranian Revolution, there was the cold war and tensions between the US and China, and the US and Russia. There were oil crises and lots of strife in the MidEast.

      Shame on those filmmakers for giving the US a look at a man and a path that promised a way out of violence and oppression using non-violent means. What the hell were they thinking?

      1. DaLaud

        @wtfwhatever
        It’s disgusting that trolls like you exist. A stellar example of how to declare you’re an asshole in the first 2 words of a paragraph. Begone.

    2. 2.2
      F [is for failure to emerge]

      Hey, fucking douchebag, why don’t run along outside and play hide and go fuck yourself? At least until you grow up and start making sense.

      Hero worship and propaganda are excuses for nothing and a root problem with a lot of things.

  3. 3
    NotYou

    All the Men who were Revolutionary type or lived their their entire life for making changes for noble couses or who were the source of new kind of enlightment or the people who were created new era of something extraordinarily good for human history or the Men who are willing to do such like things, generally it is/was seen that those People’s personal sex life for pleasure is little bit different. That is, their desire for sex is little more than ordinary people. Their is nothing new in it also. One of the factor might be responsible for that is that those different kind of busy Men must had thought that as they might going Die for noble couses, so they atleast get some pleasure in the kind of sex or whatever, when ever they got time for that. Infact large no. of supporting women felt proud or always eager to sleep with or giving pleasure to those great Men. So there is no necessity to unfold those personal matter of some great Men. Unfortunately some selfish women who did not get fulfiled their wishes through those Great Men, that is by marrying those great busy Great Men… They afterwards pretended to media that they were oppressed…
    This is very absurd.

  4. 4
    Mriganka Bhattacharyya

    Wow! I didn’t know that side of ‘Mahatma’ Gandhi!

  5. 5
    Dipak Kumar hattacharya

    All the leaders, I know are corrupt, this way or that. So f*** all leaders to be really free. however a few of them had a couple of admirable contribution. this man gave 2 potent weapons which can be used as political weapons. Rest of the things Taslima mentioned is right & she has a right to say it all.

  6. 6
    Shreedhar Manek

    Gandhi is known as he is today because of his advocacy of bob violence. What he did in his personal life, as long as it was not illegal, has nothing to do with anything else.

  7. 7
    Senthil Kumaran

    How much research have you done Madam? This is covered in some part in the book “Freedom at Midnight” and this is not as offensive or even remotely interesting as sex obessed people may think or you express above. Please do research. Get hold of the book “Freedom at Midnight” and read it (again and again) if you have not read it. The movie is based upon that book.

    *not-funny*

  8. 8
    K B

    Well Gandhi regarded celibacy tests as some sort of “Tapasaya” for him . He has always been a experimenter & deeply religious man. For him Sex was like weakness. He has right to do what he wants but the problem was tha poor girls of whom Gandhi might have always thought well had no choice but to follow him. Like all elders in India think that they are best to judge what is good/ bad for their younger ones, Gandhi might have thought these expt. will help them.

    1. 8.1
      nathanaelnerode

      This is a roughly correct summary.

      Lots of stories have come out about this from people who knew Gandhi personally, and I’ve heard some of them second-hand. It seems pretty definite from the witnesses that he did not sexually assault or sexually abuse the girls — and he did this thing of sleeping next to girls when sleeping in the same room with other people, too, which is why I can say “the witnesses”.

      He really was doing what he claimed to be doing.

      Of course, that behavior was psychologically abusive and involved treating the girls as property, pretty much. And he completely did not see what was wrong with that. This particular sexist attitude was common in the 1940s and for centuries before in India, unfortunately.

  9. 9
    Amit

    From where did you get this information? Was the source of this information to you, was a close person of Gandhi ji or it is just a tail told by some attention seeking people? … And if this information is going to help mankind in some way than produce it … Otherwise don’t write wrong about great personalities. .. We look at you as a pathshowing people to society … What if someone writes such nonsense about you? We should always see the briter side of everything … Even life giving water has 2 personality … If it is the source of life on earth, it brings death also to the society when comes in the shape of flood. I don’t see you as only a feminist leader but a humanist leader … Please don’t vanish my openion about you. Thanks ….. Your genuine follower .

  10. 10
    Agni_B

    So many sex related stories about so many so called heroic figures
    . Always those Stories comes out of the woodwork after their death.
    We know about Nehru/lady Mountbatten, Kennedy/M. Monroe, Jesus/Magdalene etc
    It is almost impossible to evaluate and make correct judgement in today’s benchmark.

    It is obvious and documented that Gandhi was experimenting with bizarre sex habit .
    He thought sex was a big distraction of an intelligent mind and should be controlled.

    Gandhi had sex with his wife while tending his sick father

    .” Gandhi said “This shame of my carnal desire even at the critical hour of my father’s death…
    is a blot I have never been able to efface of forget …..

    It took me long to get free from the shackles of lust, and I had a pass through many
    ordeals before I could overcome it”

    The shackles of lust thus become a sign of his weaknesses and inadequacy.

    He slept naked with 2 girls, very unusual if you were a Muslim /Christian.
    But in Hindu mind, and Tantric tradition it is not unusual or sex crime.
    No damaging revelations ,he discussed everything that he believed in and
    experimented with openly.

    Gandhi did not rape or molested those girls. He did not keep it secret either as he
    did not consider those as crime.
    He publicly confirmed that his reason/excuse was to experiment his power of celibacy etc.
    He believed, he acted as a spiritual director (agree/disagree)

    Yes, in present day analysis it was wrong, but he was not paedophile or rapist.
    He had notoriously eccentric views on sex but he was not sex maniac
    It was a peculiar sense of sexual experiment like his other project.

    Sex , biggest selling commodity . New book on the scene- Gandhi was Gay

    1. 10.1
      Taslima Nasreen

      Whatever the reason for his sex experiments, he must not have used young girls to solve his personal problems. The young girls were forced to sleep with him naked. He told his followers not to have sex with their wives, rather they should dedicate them for his experiments. Not 2 girls, he used many girls from 1906- 1948. All had to be young. Manuben was 17. After Gandhi died, she could not marry anyone, she developed psychological problems and spent a tragic lonely life till her death. She used to write diary that was read by Gandhi and approved. She knew how much she could write.
      If you think tantric thingy allows you to exploit young girls, then your tantric thingy is bad. Probably you are proud of sati system too. Gandhi declared that he was having celibacy tests, he did that probably because people already knew about his tests. If you let public know that you are committing crimes, it does not mean that you are not a criminal. He dared to declare about his bizarre tests because he knew that Indians were hero worshipers and he could get away with everything as long as he was popular. He even did not care about his wife. His wife was sleeping next door alone, while he slept with naked girls. What a megalomaniac attitude! No, it was not OK in that society. Congress leaders were very embarrassed about Gandhi’s sex behavior. They asked him of stop using girls. But Gandhi was desperate to get naked and make the girls naked and sleep with them on the same bed. We did not really know what happened inside his bedroom. Girls were warned by the congress leaders not to disclose anything. Where are the girls after Gandhi’s death? Nobody knows.
      How do you know he was not a pedophile or a rapist?
      Being gay is much better than being a molester or exploiter. Wish he were just a gay.

      1. Agni_B

        ‘ How do u know he was not paedophile or rapist ’ ?

        Very simple- no one complained, no evidence, no witness no case to be answered.
        Court can not accept third party made up accusation. Case dismissed.
        It may not be correct or desirable but it was not a crime and moreover, he was a celibate

        I can also ask – how do you know he IS? Simply you don’t

        Whole world knew and monitored Gandhi – aware of ‘sleeping naked with girls’ and it
        was discussed with him openly – it is a finished episode now.
        You just flogging a dead horse.
        .
        It is not Tantric thingy, it is a shoot of Yoga-system- practises spirituality
        not related to any exploitation. Hinduism is not just Sati & Caste. You need to
        familiarise with your subject matter if you wish to make a public statement.
        Ignorance is no defence

        We are not discussing sati system, silly futile babble .

        If British remotely identified any wrongdoings by Gandhi they would have publicly
        tried and jailed him happily to destroy him politically

        He was neither a molester nor a exploiter of any girls… You are accusing a dead
        man who can not defend himself and this can be construed as a serious moral criminal act.
        You may not realize , gays can and do commit sexual crime

        Dead horse beaters continue beating, think they can bring it back to life?

        1. Taslima Nasreen

          He is not a dead horse. He is Gandhi. We do critical scrutiny of all people, specially historical figures. Historians still write books on famous politicians like Gandhi, Nehru, Jinnah, and also famous religious figures like Muhammad, Jesus etc and they still analyze their characters & behaviors. Historians is writing books on Gandhi’s sexual behaviour, his homosexuality and his sexual perversion involving young girls. The documents and evidences on Gandhi’s celibacy were made disappeared after his death. The victims were mysteriously gone with the wind. You said ‘no one complained’. In 2013, most raped girls do not report, and you think teens were able to complain against Gandhi, the giant, in the beginning of 20th century, and when he was worshiped in 30′s and 40′s? You are kidding. Congress leaders would have destroyed those girls and their families if they tried to say anything critical about Bapu. The British did not dare to file case against Gandhi. They also knew it won’t help. But Gandhi did not get Nobel Peace Prize, many suspect that the reason behind it was his celibacy tests.

          No Yoga tells you to sleep with naked teenagers for decades. ‘Whole world’ did not open the doors to Gandhi’s bedroom, because it was closed from inside. And ‘whole world’ could guess what could happen inside when a man and a woman are naked and lying on the same bed for years and years. You can guess too. What if Narendra Modi, your beloved political leader now declares that he would do celibacy tests and need young naked girls every night for the rest of his life? Would you appreciate it? You may get worried about him losing popularity, but what about the girls? Do you ever think what they feel? Of course not. You believe in religion. And we all know religion and misogyny work hand in hand.

          1. Agni_B

            “Gandhi did not get Nobel Peace Prize, the reason behind it is his celibacy tests.” -
            ridiculous dim-witted outburst, deserve only contempt

            The main reason was the influence of mighty British Empire.
            Gandhi was a small, dark-skinned man who challenged the British Empire in
            South Africa and India. He was a threat that needed to be eliminated, not a
            hero who should be garlanded

            No one was concerned about Gandhi’s sleeping partner, this has never been a issue with anyone.

            Nobel committee regret that decision now.

            Michael Sohlam, Executive Director of the Nobel Foundation & Nobel Museum curator
            Dr Anders Barany regretted for not giving the Nobel Peace Prize for Mahatma Gandhi

            “We missed a great laureate and that’s Gandhi. It is a big regret.”

            “Gandhi is the one we miss the most at the museum. I think that’s a big empty space
            where we should have had Gandhi”

            WE do critical scrutiny of all people‘? what a egotistical bullshit . Think before you make
            any stupid remarks, otherwise no one will take you seriously

            You should be ashamed of your ignorance and haughtiness

            Meaningless answering the rest…..

      2. Bharath Kumar Singareddy

        What I see in authors voice is an insecure person who has faced lot of trouble due to male domination in society. I strongly agree that gandhi’s celibacy tests are bull shit and if some one does the same thing in 2013 he would be jailed(provided any of those girls complain against him). but i dont like why you are exaggerating this issue only. For you gandhi means only a person who slept with nude girls to test his self control?
        this attitude is what i did not like because there are pros and cons when you are telling something about someone why are you highlighting only the negative things he has done.
        you have every right to express your feelings go ahead

  11. 11
    Manoranjan Pandey

    You are having some GOD element. Ultimately who not only thinks but speaks about truly humanity.

  12. 12
    sanatomba

    @Taslima. one fact this GREAT author seems to miss intentionally is we feel dirty about sex bcoz of our dirtiness of mind.To a person who has transformed truely to bramhachaya or higher self as Gandhiji pursued there would not have been any difference between man and women ; wether naked or otherwise.I expect ur great imagination can easiy reach it.Gandhiji might have been wrong or criminal inasmuchas using those young girls as experimental instruments.But it would be grave error to guess Gandhi exploited the girls sexully.What do you expect from a person who had abstained from every taste and flavour.WILL TASLIMA SLEEP WITH AN AVOWED BRAMHACHARYA LIKE GANDHI OR A GOOD HUSBAND WHO OFFERS EVERYTHING IN BED!Yes, Those girls did not sleep for sexual desire or would have been forced or convinced,or simply helpless . The point is Gandhi would also have not offered anything like taslima expected.His celibacy tests can however be as eccentric as his dietectics experiments.But he was never hypocritical and true to spirit.In 1906 he had already taken the vow of bramhacharya.For gandhi a vow is a vow as we all know what he did in his life in England.By the same standard we can fairly conclude that he would not have shown any sexual ovurture towards the girls.Gandhi did such tests because of his firm conviction of a bramhacharya in which there is mental and carnal restraint,and which he felt necessary for fuller sacrifice towards stronger national movement. You can claimed his wrongness in methodology but not in his purity. Moreover Gandhi might have been convicted for the legality or morality for such abnormal deed,He would not have resist it at any account.Because his purpose was not to win a materialistic award like nobel prize or trying to gain a cleaner image for an election . How on earth u can judged a spiritual enlightenment by western biased prize. However there is no bound for imagination;and with it put together dirty mind and superb creativity its really dangerous, though the consequence is popularity

  13. 13
    Taslima Nasreen

    http://www.dnaindia.com/money/1818144/report-ambani-brothers-join-hands-for-telecom-business

    1. In a letter to Adolf Hitler, Gandhi had said, “We have no doubt about your bravery or devotion to your fatherland, nor do we believe that you are the monster described by your opponents.” This according to many observers showed that Gandhi did not hold Hitler who killed many Jews accountable for his crimes.

    2. Recently newly revealed letters added to speculation about Mahatma Gandhi being gay. As letters between a South African bodybuilder named Hermann Kallenbach and Gandhi suggested that the pair may have had a physical relationship.

    3. The Poona Pact between Dr BR Ambedkar and Mahatma Gandhi was signed to save the latter’s life as he was on a fast unto to death to stop separate electorate in parliament for Dalits. Many people say that the move appeared to deny the Dalits any real access to power.

    4. Though people who followed Mahatma Gandhi’s ways were given the Nobel Peace prize, Gandhi himself never won the prize. This has been a bone of controversy for quite some time.

    5. Mahatma Gandhi had taken a public vow of celibacy at age 37 and toward the end of his life he undertook what he described as the last yajna or ritual to test his sexual impulses. His exercise involved by sleeping naked with young women in his ashram, including his 19-year-old grand-niece Manu Gandhi and Abha Gandhi, the 16-year-old wife of his grand-nephew Kanu Gandhi. He acknowledged “that this experiment is very dangerous indeed,” but insisted “that it was capable of yielding great results.” This has been viewed with suspicion by sceptics.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/thrill-of-the-chaste-the-truth-about-gandhis-sex-life-1937411.html

    1. 13.1
      Agni_B

      He did not admire Hitler‘- this is a trimmed & selective quote. You have to read the
      whole letter. The letter was Witten in 1939, well before the genocide invasion etc.

      **Gandhi can be rightly criticised for other important valid reasons**

      His biggest mistakes is – mindless appeasement of the decadent Muslims- and complete disregard for the Hindus.
      He gave oxygen to partition movement and totally ignored Hindu suffering, victim of Muslim atrocities

      Gandhi’s experiment with orthodox Islam was a spectacular failure.
      Gandhi simply did not understand the mindset of Islamic leaders he was dealing with
      His poster boy Mohammed Ali in 1925-: “Yes, according to my religion and creed, I do hold an adulterous
      and a fallen Mussalman to be better than Mr. Gandhi”. That is the true Islamofascist mentality revealed in all its glory.

      Gandhi undermined, betrayed Shubas Bose, ignored Sardar Patel for Nehru.

      Gandhi on rape:

      “He would kiss the feet of the (Muslim) violator of the modesty of a sister” (Mahatma Gandhi, D Keer, ).
      Gandhi advised if a Muslim expressed his desire to rape a Hindu or a Sikh lady, she should never refuse him
      but cooperate with him. She should lie down like a dead with her tongue in between her teeth.
      (D Lapierre Freedom at Midnight, ).

      Jinnah would always be remembered for having created a separate homeland for the Indian Muslims;
      a unique feat in world history. Gandhi, on the other hand, would be remembered for his endless efforts
      to destroy the Hindu identity and land

      Gandhi did not liberate India by his non violence- it is a myth.

      World War II had a profound effect on the colonial powers because it completely destroyed
      their economies. India’s independence was achieved not by Mahatma Gandhi, but rather by
      Hitler (indirectly) rendering the British Empire a bankrupt entity.

      “ Gandhi’s non-violence movement had next to zero effect on the British“ -Clement Atlee

      Non violence’ is not Gandhi’s creation- original idea came from ‘Tolstoy’

      ‘Mahatma’ is an inappropriate title for Gandhi- it should have been ‘Maulana’

  14. 14
    Erection

    Could Gandi achieve what I can – erection. Hey Hey Hey…

    1. 14.1
      F [is for failure to emerge]

      You’ve achieved being an asshole. Huzzah.

  15. 15
    dishahin nepali

    People should be talking about this, rather erotic nature of the one true hero of humanity, He certainly understood how wrongly it may be seen by the then colonizers, ofcourse at the same time proved his right to these acts with what looked to be a unanimous support by his attendents , which was the whole of India,; well atleast the loud -speaking majority,the minor netajis ofcourse.
    Personally I woudn’t dare question his motives, or how successful was his celibate experiments. not to say that in todays world, if someone with his celibate experiments came to my door and ask to support his causes, there wound’t be a chance of me voting for him. Also to add, whether there was injustice to the young teenagers, should have been a serious discussion. Meantime, let me not remind you of the extremeties of behaviour Hindu “mahatma” type men have lived through, a whole different world out here with its own Karmic cycles and ever confusing theologies.
    But things have certainly changed! Tradition pati-based womenisam, is no more the plight of an Indian women…and no more can a women be talked off like any other object next to a mans life,. Gandhi would certainly have changed his ways of experiments,if the Company was still here.

  16. 16
    javed

    many things are really horrible abt gandhi ji..but i stile respect him…

    1. 16.1
      vikram agrawal

      Gandhi ko kuch aye na aye, 3 kaam acche se ate the, angrejo k talwe chatna, wrong decision le k hindustaniyo ki gand marna aur apne bramhachaya k natak k aad main masum ladkiyon ki bali chadhana.. aur spirituality ki baat hi mat karo kuch nahi malum tha usko bus ved puran se chura chura k do char line bana dali aur ho gaya mahatma bhusdike.. Apun ka dost ka birth day hai bhai Lal Bahadur shasrty ka ghant akoi gandhi ko hum nahi jante sala hamara Pakistan ko alag kar diya humse kamina.

  17. 17
    Pradeep

    I have never been a fan of Gandhi. My cousin & I started an organization in our teens doing research based propaganda on Gandhi including his acts of celibacy. But one thing we concluded as we learnt more is none of it was sexually intended. This is based on reading several books including Gandhi’s own account of his acts. He was trying to elevate himself above normal humanity by testing on celibacy & proving that he cannot be distracted. Could this have an impact on someone? Absolutely. Should Gandhi be held accountable for that? Of course. But only if these allegations were true. Several who were part of these experiments had profound interest in Gandhi and were very willing to be part of his journey. It is not fair to apply 2013 views & measure a man who lived several decades ago.

    Taslima – I have huge respect for you.For person of your caliber and talent, sensationalism is not needed. This is my humble opinion.

  18. 18
    Vineeth Jose (@VineethJose)

    “The girls were asked to keep their mouths shut.”

    In reality he asked them to write about their experience. A little more research and unbiased contextual view will be helpful.

  19. 19
    aam admi

    Mercy killing and jihad both have common purpose. Hitler and gandhi both are admirers of islam. Allah created everything in pairs. Knowledge on this available to human understanding is limited. Both good and bad are designed to co exist. Janab.Narendra modi is also a human being. There will be lot of confusion if we fail to understand our own design and go against rules of nature. Islam is the true religion for all to follow and find solutions for our known and unknown problems. Hope all will agree with me on this.
    Both hindus and muslims of pakistan and india need solar powered steam engines for two wheelers.
    Thanks.

    Aam admi

  1. 20
  2. 21
    Gandhi (1982) Full Film Lead his country to freedom. | The Journalist

    […] Gandhi (freethoughtblogs.com) […]

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