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Nov 14 2012

The religious problem for the GOP

Much of the attention for the Republican losses in the last election has been blamed on the fact that its message has alienated minorities and this has serious long-term consequences given the changing demographics of the US. But Mark Silk points out that there is an another widening gap that should terrify the Republican even more and that is one that strikes at the core of its most loyal voting bloc, the religious voter.

He points to this graphic prepared by the Public Religion Research Institute that describes the coming end of the Republican’s ‘white Christian strategy’. When you look at the makeup of religious view of the voters who voted for Obama, it lies somewhere between the 18-29 and 30-49 age cohorts, whereas Romney’s religious distribution most closely resembles the group over 65. Interestingly, it is this same elderly cohort that is also the main viewership of the Fox News network. If they don’t do something to halt that trend, both the Republican party and Fox News will die along with their current audience.

Note the dramatic rise in the unaffiliated segment as one gets younger, from 8% for those over 65 to 32% for those 18-29.

102 comments

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  1. 1
    dano

    My friends and I must all be outliers as we are in the 35-45 age bracket, devout christians, watch Fox News & did not vote for Obama. We are college educated and way above the U.S median income of $50,054 per a New York Times article on 9/12/12. We must be the last of a dying class except that for every 10 I know that are similar to us I know of only 1 on the other side. Hmmm?

  2. 2
    eric

    We are college educated…

    In that case you should have no trouble answering this question: which is likely to be more accurate – your own personal anecdote, or statistical data?

  3. 3
    Nick Gotts

    Come on eric, they may be college educated, but a year of watching Fox News is equivalent to having 25% of your cerebral cortex removed.

  4. 4
    Raging Bee

    …except that for every 10 I know that are similar to us I know of only 1 on the other side.

    That may be the America you see from a gated “community,” or from “sunset towns” like Salem, MO; but it ain’t the America most Americans see from their windows. That was Mano’s point: not that people like you don’t exist, just that there aren’t enough of you to keep on electing religious bigots and con-men when your older wingnut chums start dying off.

  5. 5
    baal

    It’s Dano. His ideological trolling has him banned from a few parts of FTB. The point is of course on distributions and likely futures and not one of absolutes and “everyone”.

  6. 6
    Raging Bee

    PS: Yo, dano, as a college-educated Republican, what’s your opinion of Catholic hospitals allowing innocent women (no, that’s not an oxymoron) to die rather than abort a fetus that the doctors know can’t be kept alive anyway?

  7. 7
    raven

    . If they don’t do something to halt that trend, both the Republican party and Fox News will die along with their current audience.

    And tens of millions will be cheering as fundie death cult xianity and their house organs shrink down small enough to grow drown in the bathtub.

    they may be college educated, but a year of watching Fox News is equivalent to having 25% of your cerebral cortex removed.

    True.

    There is a huge amount of evidence that fundie xianity causes cognitive impairment.

    1. Michele Bachmann. Two college degrees, one law, passed the bar. Nowadays she probably can’t cross a street safely without her minder.

    2. The christofascists couldn’t find anyone bright enough to even prop up as a dummie for the political party. Perry, Bachmann, Cain, Satanorum were just too stupid to run. They had to nominate a nonxian instead.

    3. Internet trolls. They aren’t brought by the stork, they are made by toxic fundie religion.

  8. 8
    daledobson

    Eric makes exactly the right point here. We tend to befriend people similar to ourselves, and that makes it easy to underestimate the number of people who are unlike ourselves.

    I’m from a similar background to dano in some ways — I’m 45 years old, Caucasian, male, college educated, make well above the median income… but I am not a Christian, I do not watch Fox News, and I voted for Obama.

    Most of my friends are similarly well-educated, stable and employed, and they tend to the liberal end of the spectrum, voting much like I do. The only hardcore conservatives in my circle of friends are one gay man who teaches overseas, and one Catholic homemaker.

    I try to look outside my little demographic bubble, but it’s where I live — among the tiny sample of American citizens I personally know, only a few vote Republican. Thus I am periodically shocked that around half the electorate does NOT agree with me on certain issues — just as shocked as they are that my half of the populace does.

    It’s what makes democracy work.

  9. 9
    dano

    I assume you are talking about Zvan’s article today about the story in Ireland. I am and always have been under the idea that if a mother’s life is in jeopardy she & the husband (father for those not married) would have the right to choose.

  10. 10
    dano

    Forgot to mention I am not a republican but rather a conservative and a proud supporting member of the Tea Party.

  11. 11
    dano

    In my area that would be my ancedote as I do not know the stats off the top of my head for the entire country.

  12. 12
    Marcus Ranum

    (giggle) Good one!

  13. 13
    Nick Gotts

    Why the fuck should anyone else have a say on what a woman does with her body – particularly if her life is at stake? Evidently, you regard women as less than fully human.

  14. 14
    dano

    Bachmann is a true Tea Party member and will have my support as long as her beliefs and morales align with mine.

    I also noticed that my replys are going to the wrong person….neverless I am sure well educated people like yourselves can figure out which answer goes with which question.

  15. 15
    composer99

    The Tea Party is essentially a Republican front. Its membership are overwhelmingly Republicans, its policy planks overwhelmingly match those of the Republican party.

    So, try again.

  16. 16
    Rob

    dano @1
    I invite you to check out the Presidential election exit polls (http://elections.nytimes.com/2012/results/president/exit-polls or http://edition.cnn.com/election/2012/results/race/president#exit-polls)

    As middle aged, devout christian, highly paid people with a college degree you are actually statistically more likely to vote for Romney than Obama. If you are white that’s a major multiplier. If you live in certain states another multiplier.

    Your personal anecdote means shit and I suspect your ability for rational thought is probably hiding with your compassion for others.

  17. 17
    dano

    You have a gay conservative friend? That seems like an oxymoron. Never the less I wish you well in your little bubble. My world extends from Mpls/St. Paul area to the far North as I have friends I mean conservative friends in many cities and through work. We (Conservatives) may have lost the battle but the war still rages on and we will not stop until we have less government in our lives, a handle on the deficit, fewer unemployed citizens, a growing econmy and health care that will not cost an arm & a leg (pun intended).

  18. 18
    dano

    Mainly because I value life over death as you have indicated do not. When I was young I like many if not all college students though of myself as a democrat but as I grew, married and had childern realized the true value of life even in the unborn fetus. I moved away from the church in my late teens and twenties but came back after some soul searching. Later to realize that what I learned as a boy in church, cub scouts, boy scouts and youth group were correct in both the methods and lessons they taught me.

  19. 19
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    That anyone with a high school education or more would support a politician as odious as Michelle Bachman boggles my mind. But I guess if you’re not part of that segment of the American population that she regards as second class citizens, if you’re someone who’s part of the majority and hasn’t had any significant experience being part of an oppressed class, if you’re someone who doesn’t have much empathy for the suffering of others, if you’re someone who doesn’t believe in the fundamental right to bodily autonomy that all humans have (yes, even the womenz), then I guess I can see how you’d support that wretched shitbag.

  20. 20
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    we will not stop until we have less government in our lives

    Less government except:
    1- when a same sex couples want to get married
    2- when a woman wants to get contraception
    3- when a woman wants to abort the fetus inside her
    4- when a same sex couple wants to adopt a child
    5- when someone wants to smoke a joint

    Yeah, I understand how Right Wingers want less government in their lives, except when they *do* want them in their lives. Or rather, regulating the private lives of those people. Since the Right Wingers don’t engage in those activities, they don’t mind when the government gets involved in the personal, private lives of those people.

  21. 21
    ImaginesABeach

    Really? A woman is pregnant, and the pregnancy is putting her life at risk and you think that someone should have to consult her husband rather than just her about what steps are appropriately taken to protect her life? And you think that allowing her to die because her husband opposes abortion is a pro-life position?

  22. 22
    Alverant

    “we have less government in our lives, a handle on the deficit, fewer unemployed citizens, a growing econmy and health care that will not cost an arm & a leg”

    Actually that sounds pretty liberal. It’s the conservatives who want more government in our lives (especially if you’re a woman, homosexual, non-christian, non-conservative, or racial minority), ballooning the deficit with wars of choise and a bloated military, shipping jobs overseas creating unemployment here, shifting the economy to a fradgile service base, and allowing insurance companies do what they want in terms of pricing while limiting what their customers can do.

  23. 23
    Raging Bee

    First, what the hell does giving a man control over a woman’s personal medical choices have to do with “valuing life?”

    And second, what about the life of the woman carrying the child? Is a fully grown human (who may already have children to care for) less valuable to your god than a cluster of cells that doesn’t even have a snake’s level of feeling and consciousness?

    Your “I value life” BS is nothing but self-righteous, self-serving hypocricy. And a transparently obvious excuse to treat women as nothing but livestock.

  24. 24
    dano

    I also find it a little funny that Mano who was a devout disbeliever of the Obama-bbt would decide it is better to support someone he has stated before that he dislikes, lies and has a terrible track record than to support a leader that actually has a track record and has lead and united his people while governor.

  25. 25
    Raging Bee

    Funny how your only response to a policy question is to hide behind a label. A little intestinally challenged today, are we?

  26. 26
    Nick Gotts

    No you don’t, liar. Your answer is complete bilge, as ImaginesABeach shows. It is in any case ludicrous to say you “value life”. A tapeworm is alive, as is a tuberculosis bacterium and a cell in a cancerous tumour. Do you value their lives?

  27. 27
    Raging Bee

    So why don’t you tell us exactly which of Bachmann’s opinions or policies you agree with, and explain why they’re right?

  28. 28
    dano

    I have seen uneploymrnt rise to an unseen level & the true unemployment level move above 10% due to not counting those under employed and those who have just plain given up in looking for work. How about people on food stamps, the deficit, the war, I could go on but you know the lies as well as I. Obama will continue his trend of giving handouts to those that will take instead of telling them to get off your butt and provide for yourself and family. I for one am not interested in paying for people to get free cell phones and government food stamps if they are an able person. Laziness is not an excuse to sit at home and watch the boob tube. Mark my words he will be increasing the tax burden for all americans except maybe for the 47%’ers.

  29. 29
    Loqi

    For being “college educated,” your grasp of statistics seems weak. You actually read this article, followed the links to the statistics, and then came away thinking, “but I’m a white, middle-aged conservative Christian, and I didn’t vote for Obama, so the stats must be biased?” Oh, and then pulled, “all my friends white, middle-aged conservative Christians voted for Romney too. Checkmate!”

    There are simply too many things wrong with this to cover.

  30. 30
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    When I was young I like many if not all college students though of myself as a democrat but as I grew, married and had childern realized the true value of life even in the unborn fetus.

    By denying the mother right to bodily autonomy, you automatically grant the fetus more rights as a human being and person than you do the mother.
    That’s disgusting.
    Fetus’ do not have the right to infringe on the boy of a woman. No human gets to make use of another humans’ body without their express permission. If a woman is pregnant and does not want to be, she should have every right to terminate the pregnancy and rid herself of the parasite within her.
    Also, by your words, you are not pro life. You’re *pro fetus*.

  31. 31
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    Raging Bee:
    ooooh, I can’t wait to see this.
    I haven’t found one thing I can agree with Mrs. Bachman on.

  32. 32
    Nick Gotts

    More lies. Others have already dealt with the claim that you want “less government”. If you wanted health care that doesn’t cost an arm and a leg, you would of course be supporting a system similar to those found in most of Europe, where health care costs are far lower, while life expectancy is higher and infant mortality lower.

  33. 33
    Raging Bee

    Which “track record” are you talking about? The shafting of viable businesses by Bain Capital, or the health-insurance system he’s been running away from for over five years?

    It’s obvious you have no idea what you’re talking about. The only question is, do you even care?

    Oh, and if you’re so “pro-life,” then why do you support a party that (among other things) started an unnecessary and unprovoked war that got hundreds of thousands of people killed for no reason? You’re no more “pro-life” than a Nazi or a Klansman.

  34. 34
  35. 35
    Raging Bee

    I have seen uneploymrnt rise to an unseen level & the true unemployment level move above 10%…

    Did you see the date on which unemployment began to rise? And did you see it go DOWN under Obama?

    Oh, and recent levels of unemployment are not at all “unseen.” If you learned any history, you’d know that. You clearly have no clue what you’re talking about.

  36. 36
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    Perhaps Mano, like many of us, don’t want to support someone who is anti-woman and anti-gay. Romney’s positions show him to be the elitist douchebag that many of us already realized. He treats women and gays as second class citizens.
    No one should want a President in office that believes much of the population are moochers or undeserving of status as full citizens of this country.
    In the end, neither candidate was a good choice (Obama does have a lot to answer for). However, Romney was the worse of the two, so the choice was obvious.

  37. 37
    Loqi

    He united his people while governer. So Mitt strongly carried Massachusetts in the election, then?

    *checks election results*

    Oh. You must’ve meant he united them in opposition to him.

  38. 38
    baal

    And you’re aware that the ‘Tea Party’ is nothing more than a front end for the policy of ultra-rich ultra-conservative billionaires who have little regard for anyone who is not the? I.e. it’s not rational for anyone but the ultra-wealthy to support them or their views (~50K doesn’t even buy you a toe in the pool).

  39. 39
    busterggi

    Would that area be your parent’s basement by any chance?

  40. 40
    dano

    Bee it is you that is greatly confused. Let’s not talk about changes made after Romney was no longer in charge at Bain. You seem to think you know me but you do not. I have seen a leader fail and fail miserably yet he was re-elected to office. My fear is that he will set the new deficit ceiling at 20 trillion as we all know he likes to increase the deficit. He has put government regulations in place to raise the cost per individual for company provided health care and he will do what ever it takes to make sure the true job creators aka business owners pay for all of their hard work in creating businesses that are not given free money to lose such as in the wind industry. My only hope is that with the new discovery of oil in Texas and the Dakotas he will allow legitimate companies to use new technology such as fracking to remove the precious raw material to allow Americans to be free from foreign oil.

  41. 41
    Mano Singham

    dano,

    Actually, if you read my posts regularly you will not find it that hard to understand my thinking. Tony-Queer Duck… seems to have pretty much figured it out, and I have actually spelled it out on occasion

    I think the US is a one-party state with a pro-war, pro-oligrachic party with two factions (Republican and Democrat) that differ on social issues that do not affect their common interests. But those social issues are important and dramatically affect the lives of women and gays and minorities. So a vote for Obama is a vote for his social agenda over that of Romney’s.

    I will still continue to criticize Obama harshly when he warrants it, especially his attacks on civil liberties and his foreign policy and his catering to the financial interests. But the fight against the pro-war, pro-oligarchy party will have to take place outside the presidential election arena.

  42. 42
    Nick Gotts

    Someone who expresses the same complete contempt for half the electorate you do – and was stupid enough to be videoed doing so.

  43. 43
    steve84

    Ever heard of sampling bias?

  44. 44
    Raging Bee

    I have seen a leader fail and fail miserably yet he was re-elected to office.

    Fail at what, exactly?

    My fear is that he will set the new deficit ceiling at 20 trillion as we all know he likes to increase the deficit.

    The Federal deficit has been going DOWN swince he took office, nimrod. Also, if you’re so dead set against deficits and debt, shouldn’t you be supporting the guy who wants to raise taxes on teh rich to pay down all that debt? (And which party racked up all that debt to begin with?)

    He has put government regulations in place to raise the cost per individual for company provided health care…

    What regulations? And how, exactly, do they increase the cost of business? You’re short on specifics, as usual, probably because you’re just a bigot mindlessly spouting blather-points fed you by the millionaires who founded your “populist” movement.

  45. 45
    Doug Little

    No Dano’s definitely down with the anti-gay, anti-woman stance of the current Republican party. Actually the current Republican leadership doesn’t go far enough with respect to restricting the rights of groups that doesn’t meet his muster, that’s why he identifies with the Tea Party.

  46. 46
    Loqi

    I assume you have some specifics to back up what you are saying about health care costs? Because I work a health care company, and our internal numbers have the rise in expected health care costs per person slowing dramatically (still going up, but not nearly as fast as they were a few years ago).

  47. 47
    Nick Gotts

    No doubt you’re a head-in-the-sand science-denier who believes anthropogenic global warming is a commie plot rather than the well-established expert consensus it is – as Romney pretends to, when he’s addressing Tea Party fuckwits. He actually knows better, as shown by his earlier statements, and by what he told Scientific American (see this month’s issue), but was prepared to tell any lie in his bid for power, as abundantly documented during the campaign.

  48. 48
    Reginald Selkirk

    My friends and I must all be outliers…

    You spelled assholes incorrectly.

  49. 49
    dano

    Kevin do you really think I care about something someone such as Maher said? Honely you might as well of pointed me towards a Rachel Maddow video.

  50. 50
    Raging Bee

    I assume you have some specifics to back up what you are saying…?

    I OBSERVE that he doesn’t.

  51. 51
    dano

    Have you seen these uneducated Obama-bots?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpAOwJvTOio
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUrRjdLIz7c

    It’s tough to argue with someone that beleieves because they are poor they should receive “free stuff”.

  52. 52
    Rob

    1. As Raging Bee notes, you don’t have a clue.
    2. What does your rant about unemployment have to do with my comment?
    3. My point is that far from being an outlier you actually quite nicely fit a predictable demographic. Shock horror. You may actually be a number, not a free man.
    4. Having read your responses in this thread I feel your college degree has been sadly wasted.

  53. 53
    dano

    Thanks Mano, at least I know you are not denying your previous posts as if they never happened. I will stand along side you when you post your judement or rather failures Obama has done while becoming the worst president since Jimmy Carter. Long live the “King” as some Obama-bots would say. Have you ever wondered why his 2008 bumper sticker made him look like a king or Jesus Christ?

  54. 54
    Raging Bee

    Both Maher and Maddow have shown themselves to be better informed and more credible than anything you’ve said here. Their commentary is repeatedly borne out by observation of real-world events; yours isn’t. Just because you can’t understand what they say (and/or can’t handle it without freaking out) doesn’t mean they’re wrong.

  55. 55
    Alverant

    When you talk about a failed leader who was re-elected, you must be talking about W Bush who failed to keep our nation safe and failed to keep his promise to get Osama bin Laden. In fact W used OBL to scare people into voting for hime because otherwise he wouldn’t have been re-elected. Or maybe you were talking about Reagan who gave taxpayer funds to OBL and set the stage for our economic problems with his deregulation and tax cuts for the wealthy. Either of those two are definitely failed “leaders” who were re-elected.

  56. 56
    Nepenthe

    I’m shocked that dano is unable to press obviously highlighted links properly.

  57. 57
    Doug Little

    Shit I think I dropped the above comment in the wrong spot. I was talking about our illustrious educated conservative, not the creator of this blog.

  58. 58
    dano

    Another Broken Obama Promise: The Healthcare Cost Monster Emerges article Forbes.com.
    According to the Kaiser Family Foundation’s latest report on employer-provided insurance, the average family premium climbed 4.5 percent this year. That’s more than twice the current inflation rate — and comes on top of a 9.5-percent increase last year. In other words, since Obamacare was enacted, family premiums have climbed nearly $2,000.

    For those who work at small businesses, the news is even worse. Family premiums shot up more than $1,100 this year alone — an 8-percent increase.

    Article link: http://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypipes/2012/10/01/another-broken-obama-promise-the-healthcare-cost-monster-emerges/

  59. 59
    Raging Bee

    Have you ever wondered why his 2008 bumper sticker made him look like a king or Jesus Christ?

    It could be because he has the bearing one expects of a wise and benevolent king. And as for looking like Jesus, that could be because his genes come from a part of the world very near where Jesus was born, so he’d be more likely to look like Jesus than a white man would.

  60. 60
    Raging Bee

    …the average family premium climbed 4.5 percent this year.

    Was it going down in previous years? NO! Employers were raising their employees’ premiums to cut their own costs, and cutting back on quality of insurance coverage, before Obama even took office, for reasons having nothing at all to do with anything Obama did or planned to do (with ZERO protest from teatards like yourself, I might add). Your total willful ignorance of such life-and-death issues as healthcare for the poor once again shows you don’t really give a shit about “life.”

  61. 61
    dano

    Because I am anti-murdering of unborn children I am anti-woman. Boy, I’ll have to run that one by the wife to see if she agrees. This is my last post for 6 hours as my son has his first hockey game tonight. Go Squirts! I hope I don’t have to sit by anyone spouting off about how great Obama is doing or the Elmo story.

  62. 62
    Jared A

    I thought you wanted less government. no? You should rate Carter quite highly since he is the only president in your lifetime to actually strive to reduce the executive power of the president. He also worked very hard to reduce spending, thought the recession he was faced with made it difficult to reign it all in– you know, because of the millenia-old wisdom about how the state must accumulate and store (i.e. tax) in times of plenty so that it may open its hand (spend) in times of famine. That one is even in that ol’ Bible book you love so much.

  63. 63
    Loqi

    Nice. Link a partisan blog and call it evidence. Still, we can work with that.I notice your source doesn’t link to the actual study or data, and only describes two years. Ironically, the two years that it describes fit with exactly what I said: still going up, but going up much more slowly. Care to look up how much health care costs were rising during the Bush administration?

    When you try to refute something, first make sure your evidence doesn’t support their side.

  64. 64
    Loqi

    Oh, I found the study. Here’s the president and CEO of the group that did the study discussing the results:
    http://www.kff.org/pullingittogether/altman_premium_increase.cfm

    Since dano isn’t fond of actually finding real evidence and prefers having partisan pundits feed him a narrative that misrepresents reality, I’ll post the first paragraph here. Emphasis is mine.

    Our 2012 Employer Health Benefits Survey found a 4% increase in premiums this year, continuing the recent trend of moderation in health costs and spending reported in several studies. Double digit increases in premiums were once a common occurrence, but we have not seen any since a 10% increase in 2004 and 13% growth in 2003. Rates of increase in total health spending have been holding at 4-6% per year recently, and per capita spending — which is most analogous to premiums — has been rising about a percentage point below that. These are strikingly low numbers to those of us who have been studying health costs for a long time. A 4% increase in health premiums is good news, although good news is seldom “news”. But will it last?

    So there you have it, dano. The very study you referenced says the exact opposite of what you said, and backs me. Care to try again?

  65. 65
    davidhart

    There is no such thing as an unborn child.
    Try saying the word with me:
    Fee. Tuss.
    Fetus (or foetus where I come from).

  66. 66
    sailor1031

    “We must be the last of a dying class……”

    Odd to think that dinosaurs much younger than I are approaching extinction……being a liberal must keep me young!

  67. 67
    sailor1031

    Well maybe it was Liberty Bible College – now somehow morphed into Liberty University……(I guess you can get anything accredited in Virginia nowadays), so we wouldn’t be talking about a real education here. You know like with math and real science and real history and stuff.

  68. 68
    sailor1031

    careful, careful – don’t wake his little pony. Ponies are light sleepers you know!

  69. 69
    Doug Little

    This is why the Republican party is dead in the water. Their membership is absolutely immune to facts that don’t prop up their ideology.

    Math republican’s do to make themselves feel better.

  70. 70
    mnb0

    @Nick Gotts 4:17
    That’s why I always confuse pro-life and pro-choice. The views of Dano and co are better described as anti-life.

  71. 71
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    dano:

    Because I am anti-murdering of unborn children I am anti-woman. Boy, I’ll have to run that one by the wife to see if she agrees.

    No, you’re anti woman because you place more value on keeping a fetus alive rather than respecting a woman’s right to bodily autonomy. If you were PRO women’s rights, you’d be in support of her right to choose.
    No, you’d rather a fetus have more rights than an existing human being.
    You’d rather one human force make use of a woman’s body without her permission.

    Fetuses aren’t children. When they’re born, they’re babies and have their own bodily autonomy. That’s when we can start talking about the rights of the young. Until they’re out of the womb, they’re part of the mother’s body. She has final say in what goes on in *her* body.
    Period.
    You horrible anti-choice/anti-woman Tea Party people won’t rest until all women lose the right to choose how, when and where they can control their own bodies.

    I wonder how consistent you are in your “pro-life” views.
    Hey dano I demand that you give me one of your kidneys. Give it to me. Now.

  72. 72
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    FFS.
    You’re another one who’s fallen for the “free stuff” line.
    Yes, because it’s so much fun to not work, stay at home, get a pittance from the government and pump out babies.
    Do you people ever think through the ramifications of your empty soundbites?

  73. 73
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    Exactly.
    Why aren’t they condemning any and all wars?
    Why aren’t the fighting to eliminate the death penalty?
    Why aren’t they criticizing their god for the tremendous number of miscarriages that women naturally have (or for the number of natural disasters that destroy lives and rip families apart)?
    Why aren’t they fighting for universal health care so that people have access to *life* saving medication and treatment?
    Why aren’t they fighting for adequate counselling of soldiers returning for war?
    Why aren’t they fighting for a living wage?
    Why aren’t they supporting a woman’s right to choose? It’s her life, and often it’s hanging in the balance during pregnancy.

    Why is it they’re only *for* life when it comes to a fetus?

  74. 74
    leni

    Obama will continue his trend of giving handouts to those that will take instead of telling them to get off your butt and provide for yourself and family.

    Social programs existed long before Obama, you dolt. And if you think that’s why people voted for Obama you are kidding yourself.

    First, the bulk of food stamp recipients are children, disabled, elderly and, more recently, unemployed people have had to turn to them while they look for work. Oh, and don’t forget all those returning combat vets who are having trouble returning to civilian life because they have PTSD or other injuries! Lazy bums, each and every one of them, aren’t they?

    I am, coincidentally, none of those things. The “handouts” aren’t for me, at least directly. It’s because I don’t want to live in the world where the streets are full of homeless disabled and elderly people and starving children.

    Second, (and no matter who receives those benefits) it’s an investment that helps me while also helping others. See, I don’t have to watch people starve, so that’s good. I like that. And should I need those services then, yes, I would be very glad for them as would you. And I am happy to pay it because as much as an idiot as I think you are, I don’t think you deserve to starve to death while I’m feasting on Ramen noodles. I’d rather help pay for your food stamps than put you in a position where you would turn to crime to feed yourself. I am better off if you are in a home with food. Everyone wins!

    Third, poor people are not a bunch of lazy drug addicts, as you compassionate lovers of Christ are so quick to assume. Florida figured that out when they implemented drug testing and realized that desperately poor people don’t actually do nearly as many drugs as people in your income bracket do. Who knew! You act as if poor people don’t work, yet you no doubt advocate for a free market system. You *have* to know that there will be low-wage jobs that must be filled. And that the people who fill them may need public assistance because pretty much no one can actually live on minimum wage. Someone has to work those jobs and you are deluding yourself if you think church handouts are going to make up the difference. Church handouts don’t cure cancer, control ADHD, or manage schizophrenia. Government “handouts” do though, every day for millions of people.

    That isn’t about me wanting a handout so I voted for Obama. It’s about living in a stable society where disabled and elderly people aren’t left to die in the streets, where children aren’t punished for their parent’s mistakes, and where jerks like you can hide in your white Christian bubbles and complain about how hard it is to be rich and white and well educated and about how lazy everyone who doesn’t have the benefit of being you is. So complain all you like, it doesn’t change the fact that we are all better off for it, including you.

    Yet if you are too stupid and selfish to figure out the connection between other people’s welfare and your own, I’d like to invite you to vacation in Somalia. I hear it’s nice this time of year.

  75. 75
    Doug Little

    Bravo! This has to be one of the best responses to the want stuff mantra that has been coming out of the right wing ever since they got hammered in the election. Man am I ever stealing this, with permission of course. It sums up exactly my position on why we pay for welfare. Thank you.

  76. 76
    Doug Little

    Also I think that it could be safely assumed that the likes of Dano would take welfare if they ever actually needed it similarly I’m sure that if his wife’s life was in danger from a pregnancy he would not hesitate to agree to an abortion. All I can say is that they are all a bunch of fucking hypocrites of the highest order.

  77. 77
    Raging Bee

    My bumper-sticker says it best: “Obama is not a foreign-born socialist giving away free healthcare. That would be Jesus.

    If you’re confusing Obama with Jesus, that’s a good reason to vote FOR him, not against him.

  78. 78
    Raging Bee

    Speaking of giving away free stuff, I notice Mutt Romney is now blaming his electoral spanking on Obama giving gifts away to those shifless minority voters:

    http://news.yahoo.com/obama-offers-olive-branch-romney-dings-president-gifts-225118017–abc-news-politics.html

    I kid you not:

    “The President’s campaign focused on giving targeted groups a big gift-so he made a big effort on small things,” Romney told donors on a conference call, first reported by Maeve Reston of the L.A. Times. “Those small things, by the way, add up to trillions of dollars.”

    I guess FEMA stepping in and helping people deal with Sandy-related damage counts as a “big gift.” So do the auto-industry and bank bailouts. Republicans, of course, NEVER stoop to such bribery, as the people of New Orleans can attest.

  79. 79
    Raging Bee

    Well, yeah, if you think a fetus has full human rights and the woman bearing it is obligated to serve as a baby-factory, regardless of the risk and burdens she bears as a result, and you advocate policies that deprive women of control of their own bodies, then yes, you — and all those other teatards we’ve been hearing from since 2009 — ARE anti-woman. If you doubt me on this, don’t just check with your wife (she’s biased, and one person isn’t much of a sample anyway), check with a truly representative sample…like, oh, I dunno, thousands of women all over the planet whose lives are adversely affected by “pro-life” policies every fucking day!

  80. 80
    Freodin

    Call me overly pessimistic, but I fear that there is a certain not too small percentage of the “18-29″s and “30-49″s who will grow up to be “65+”s.

  81. 81
    Brad

    I thought it was “fuckwits”?

  82. 82
    Mano Singham

    It is true that some people’s views change as people get older but not nearly as many as people think. That is why we have seen sweeping changes in social attitudes down the ages. It was not because individuals changed so much as one generation being replaced by another.

  83. 83
  84. 84
    movablebooklady

    So here I am, a 69yo white female Southerner. I’m about as liberal as it’s possible to be, so I’m continually annoyed at being lumped in with those statistical majorities of reactionary “seniors” who voted for pod person Romney. Most of the people I know of my age and education are liberals, too, so we’re out here. And I educate my juniors on political history (as most are woefully ignorant) so they won’t make mistakes like voting libertarian. We’ll keep on voting and volunteering and working as long as we can. Try not to assume that all us seniors are conservatives, okay?

  85. 85
    dano

    I have learned that usually he who casts the first stone lives in a glass house. Do you live in your parent’s basement?

  86. 86
    dano

    Baal I have not said what I make nor would I. All I stated was that I was above the median average…read my post please. I did not state whether I made 51k or 1.5m a year. The point is irrelevant.

  87. 87
    dano

    I can post counter pages just as you. I’ll keep it simple here is another link.
    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/09/rising-health-costs-undermine-obama-pledge-to-curb-trend/

  88. 88
    composer99

    dano pretty much puts the lie to any belief that having a college education makes one smarter, of necessity.

    IMO the following two points pretty well summarize dano’s entire suite of whinges on this thread:

    (1) dano mistakes his application of the fundamental attribution error for reality.

    (2) hypocritically, dano selfishly wishes to deny those outside of his tribe the benefits to which he feels entitled (although see (1) for his rationalizations on this point).

  89. 89
    dano

    Bee you say I am anti-woman yet did you even read my post 4.1???? My assumption is that with posts this long you may be having trouble remembering what you read or rather what you didn’t read. Epic fail if I may say so myself…another Obama-bot just follows the heard.

  90. 90
    dano

    Bee, have you ever read what you wrote before posting? I implied that I felt it should him like an idol not that his skin color matches that of Jesus or whatever non-sense you were trying to get out.

  91. 91
    dano

    Leni, did you even watch the videos I posted or others where people say “a black man is president, I won’t even have to pay my rent & I’m gonna get a free cell phone” and its not just one person but rather dozens of these videos. My company works with homeless shelters providing various products to them. Do you know how many times I have been at a homeless shelter with one of my sales people only to see an Escalade or similar high priced vehicle pull up and then go inside to eat. I’ll tell you this it is more than once. I have even heard them say where are you sleeping tonight…here or? They are not visiting people nor just on hard times they are taking what ever they can whether it is food stamps, food, shelter & often times selling it for cash. You don’t drive an expensive car when you don’t have a job. It is either due to drug sales, prostition or robbery. I have heard them talk many times and they are not what you would call up standing citizens. Do I think people should be given a helping hand, you bet I do. Do I think there are some cases where it will last a life time due to health or other issues, you bet I do. But there are also those who just take and keep taking as long as the system will keep handing out the freebies.

  92. 92
    dano

    My son’s team won 4-0 last night. What a great first game.

  93. 93
    dano

    99, I have listed my reasons & examples above. You may not agree which is your right and why the U.S. is the greatest country in the world. Now if you still can not comprehend what I am saying you may want to focus some more time on secondary education yourself. Per Michelle Bachmann “I firmly believe in moving toward and promoting a culture that values and respects the sanctity of life – especially those rights of the unborn and the elderly. We must protect infants at their most vulnerable stages and never overlook the weakest and most frail among us.”

  94. 94
    dano

    Please remember that tomorrow is Papa John’s Pizza Rally Day. Eat some great pizza and support another great citizen.
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/11/12/teen-rallies-social-media-effort-to-support-papa-john-others-amid-liberal/

  95. 95
    Raging Bee

    Leni, did you even watch the videos I posted or others where people say “a black man is president, I won’t even have to pay my rent & I’m gonna get a free cell phone” and its not just one person but rather dozens of these videos.

    Wow, DOZENS of people posted stupid videos on the Internet? That’s not all that surprising in a nation of about three HUNDRED MILLION people.

    My company works with homeless shelters providing various products to them. Do you know how many times I have been at a homeless shelter with one of my sales people only to see an Escalade or similar high priced vehicle pull up and then go inside to eat.

    No; why don’t you give us a more exact number? “More than once” doesn’t exactly prove anything about Obama’s campaign or policies.

  96. 96
    leni

    No I did not dano, because I am not interested in subjecting myself to a bunch of race-baiting bs, some of which is probably satire. (“Not gonna have to pay my cell phone bill because a black guy is President”? I’d bet money that was joke without even seeing it. Even if it isn’t, people being stupid isn’t evidence of widespread, endemic welfare fraud.)

    I’ve seen plenty of videos of white men saying stupid, racist things on you tube. Yet if I want to know how many white men are racist, I’m not going to go to youtube, dredge up the worst videos I can find and then act like I’ve done my homework. If this kind of grade school youtube “sampling” was acceptable for research papers at your college, you should ask for your money back.

    Yes welfare fraud happens, get over it. You don’t like it? Next time get a licence plate number and give the IRS a tip. Say something to the people in the shelter, because my guess is that most of them wouldn’t appreciate being taken advantage of. Or is it easier to sit on your ass and smear every poor or disabled person in the country because you something “more than once”? Do you have as much enthusiasm for smearing everyone with your skin color and in your income bracket because some of them commit tax fraud? Why not? Those people aren’t paying their fair share either, and are as much “takers” (probably more so) than anyone getting committing welfare fraud.

  97. 97
    leni

    You may not agree which is your right and why the U.S. is the greatest country in the world.

    This right here is why your party lost.

    Conservatives keep saying “The US is the greatest country in the world”, but they never say why or how. So, how is it? Why? You got anything besides youtube videos to back that up?

    When conservatives are willing to admit our failures, it’s that we haven’t jailed enough (black) people for petty “crimes” like marijuana use, or denied rights to enough gay people, or killed enough people on death row, or deported enough immigrants, or punished enough pregnant women.

    This is what the republican party sounds like to a lot of people:
    “KENYA! Socialism! Fetuses! Women have magic anti-rape juices! Gay people are icky! Lazy niggers!”

    Yeah, so just keep blaming your losses on everyone else. That strategy has been working out pretty well so far.

  98. 98
    Raging Bee

    Wow, now you’re just plain incoherent. Whether it’s booze or hate, maybe you should sleep it off — and hope your son didn’t see you in such a disgraceful state.

  99. 99
    Raging Bee

    Yeah, that’s another flaw in his idiotic tirade: he never mentions what he did in response to this alleged blatant abuse of charity. In fact, he never even mentioned the possibility of reporting or exposing an undeserving freeloader, or making any inquiries to verify his initial impression of what he saw. I guess he figured Obama’s Chicago Black Panther Mafia would kill him if he said anything that might give away his location, eh?

    And if you want more proof that racism or tribalism is the real motive of teatards like dano, just note that he doesn’t utter a peep of complaint about part-time farmers mooching Federal farm disaster aid, or oil bigwigs taking advantage of tax breaks and subsidies.

  100. 100
    Raging Bee

    So tell us, what, exactly, has Bachmann DONE to protect “the weakest and most frail among us?” Does she support (for example) raising taxes on the rich to fund either financial aid or increased police protection for our least powerful fellow Americans? Didn’t think so.

  101. 101
    Corvus illustris

    It would be good to do a post devoted to supporting this very broad statement. Many of us standing at the edge of the metaphorical grave (said he, with a rather nasty cough) are at least as progressive as people fifty years our juniors.

  102. 102
    dano

    Leni,

    I am assuming you are a U.S. citizen and therefore know the reasons we are the greatest country in the world. I will state a couple just in case; writting in this blog for both sides without going to jail, electing offcials by the people, creating new laws as the need arises, changing or deleting old laws again as the need arises.

    My posting of youtube videos that are in fact true unless you can prove otherwise are just to show how some voters can be easily swayed in their vote due to promises however misguided. As far as jailing people who use marijuana, unless the law has changed in the state where you are caught it is still illegal. I know Colrado & Washington voted to make it legal & won. As far as sending back illegal immigrants….they don’t call them illegal immigrants for nothing.
    Thank you for supporting Papa Johns on Friday. I know I got my pizza fill that night.

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