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	<title>Comments for Reasonable Doubts</title>
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	<description>Your Skeptical Guide to Religion</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 04:01:54 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on RD Extra: Etcetera debate: The Status of God in the 21st Century &#8211; Featuring Justin Schieber &amp; Scott Smith by CompulsoryAccount7746, Sky Captain</title>
		<link>http://freethoughtblogs.com/reasonabledoubts/2013/05/17/rd-extra-etcetera-debate-the-status-of-god-in-the-21st-century-featuring-justin-schieber-scott-smith/#comment-11361</link>
		<dc:creator>CompulsoryAccount7746, Sky Captain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 04:01:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/reasonabledoubts/?p=282#comment-11361</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A neutron star is around 12 miles wide, btw.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A neutron star is around 12 miles wide, btw.</p>
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		<title>Comment on RD Extra: Etcetera debate: The Status of God in the 21st Century &#8211; Featuring Justin Schieber &amp; Scott Smith by CompulsoryAccount7746, Sky Captain</title>
		<link>http://freethoughtblogs.com/reasonabledoubts/2013/05/17/rd-extra-etcetera-debate-the-status-of-god-in-the-21st-century-featuring-justin-schieber-scott-smith/#comment-11360</link>
		<dc:creator>CompulsoryAccount7746, Sky Captain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 03:35:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/reasonabledoubts/?p=282#comment-11360</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Scott 36:35:
&lt;blockquote&gt;You find a perfectly polished glass sphere. [...] Merely increasing the size of the ball doesn&#039;t make it any more plausible. [...] I can&#039;t imagine there were any people out here.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_star&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Article&lt;/a&gt;: Wikipedia - Neutron Star
&lt;blockquote&gt;the surface of a neutron star is composed of ordinary atomic nuclei crushed into a solid lattice
[...]
This crust is extremely hard and very smooth (with maximum surface irregularities of ~5 mm), because of the extreme gravitational field.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&#160;
&#160;
@Scott 41:50:
&lt;blockquote&gt;In magic, at least you have a magician pulling a rabbit out of a hat. On atheism, you have no magician, no hat; just a rabbit. We have more explaining to do.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
When Scott walks through the woods and sees a rabbit, does he assert a supernatural magician must have left it? Then consider it a shortcoming that others would rather investigate first?
&#160;
Given that there is a rabbit known to exist now, we can extrapolate and confirm earlier states that would lead to its current state. There&#039;s no requirement to prematurely accept &lt;i&gt;any&lt;/i&gt; unsupported hypothetical origin to fill a gap, any more than assuming a hypothetical meal it had last week. We may never learn 100% of the rabbit&#039;s history, and that&#039;s okay.
&#160;
But if one wanted to try and fill gaps for edification, &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AWizardDidIt&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;A Wizard Did It&lt;/a&gt;&quot; is the least interesting explanation imaginable (TvTropes warning). And it&#039;s irrelevant that Zoroastrians, Christians, etc already offer their own stories if there&#039;s no evidence to tie theirs to reality.
&#160;
&#160;
@Scott 37:48:
&lt;blockquote&gt;All evidence we&#039;ve been able to ascertain: philosophical, scientific... It all points to the same conclusion: that there was a time when nothing existed. After that, the big bang...&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Citation needed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Scott 36:35:</p>
<blockquote><p>You find a perfectly polished glass sphere. [...] Merely increasing the size of the ball doesn&#8217;t make it any more plausible. [...] I can&#8217;t imagine there were any people out here.</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_star" rel="nofollow">Article</a>: Wikipedia &#8211; Neutron Star</p>
<blockquote><p>the surface of a neutron star is composed of ordinary atomic nuclei crushed into a solid lattice<br />
[...]<br />
This crust is extremely hard and very smooth (with maximum surface irregularities of ~5 mm), because of the extreme gravitational field.</p></blockquote>
<p>&nbsp;<br />
&nbsp;<br />
@Scott 41:50:</p>
<blockquote><p>In magic, at least you have a magician pulling a rabbit out of a hat. On atheism, you have no magician, no hat; just a rabbit. We have more explaining to do.</p></blockquote>
<p>When Scott walks through the woods and sees a rabbit, does he assert a supernatural magician must have left it? Then consider it a shortcoming that others would rather investigate first?<br />
&nbsp;<br />
Given that there is a rabbit known to exist now, we can extrapolate and confirm earlier states that would lead to its current state. There&#8217;s no requirement to prematurely accept <i>any</i> unsupported hypothetical origin to fill a gap, any more than assuming a hypothetical meal it had last week. We may never learn 100% of the rabbit&#8217;s history, and that&#8217;s okay.<br />
&nbsp;<br />
But if one wanted to try and fill gaps for edification, &#8220;<a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AWizardDidIt" rel="nofollow">A Wizard Did It</a>&#8221; is the least interesting explanation imaginable (TvTropes warning). And it&#8217;s irrelevant that Zoroastrians, Christians, etc already offer their own stories if there&#8217;s no evidence to tie theirs to reality.<br />
&nbsp;<br />
&nbsp;<br />
@Scott 37:48:</p>
<blockquote><p>All evidence we&#8217;ve been able to ascertain: philosophical, scientific&#8230; It all points to the same conclusion: that there was a time when nothing existed. After that, the big bang&#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>Citation needed.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Episode 114: The Myth of Martyrdom (Part 2): Who Would Die for a Lie? by axegrrl</title>
		<link>http://freethoughtblogs.com/reasonabledoubts/2013/05/03/episode-114-the-myth-of-martyrdom-part-2-who-would-die-for-a-lie/#comment-11355</link>
		<dc:creator>axegrrl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 May 2013 12:13:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/reasonabledoubts/?p=274#comment-11355</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Haven&#039;t listened to this ep yet (but looking forward to), but just wanted to ask you boys.......

`

Have you read the FAB piece on this issue written by &lt;b&gt;The Atheist&#039;s Experience&lt;/b&gt;&#039;s Tracie Harris?  If you haven&#039;t, I HIGHLY recommend it......to &lt;i&gt;everyone&lt;/i&gt;.   Here&#039;s the link:

`
&lt;a HREF=&quot;http://atheistexperience.blogspot.com/2009/09/why-martyrs.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Why Martyrs?&lt;/a&gt;

`
`
I&#039;d love to hear your comments/reaction to it :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haven&#8217;t listened to this ep yet (but looking forward to), but just wanted to ask you boys&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
<p>`</p>
<p>Have you read the FAB piece on this issue written by <b>The Atheist&#8217;s Experience</b>&#8216;s Tracie Harris?  If you haven&#8217;t, I HIGHLY recommend it&#8230;&#8230;to <i>everyone</i>.   Here&#8217;s the link:</p>
<p>`<br />
<a HREF="http://atheistexperience.blogspot.com/2009/09/why-martyrs.html" rel="nofollow">Why Martyrs?</a></p>
<p>`<br />
`<br />
I&#8217;d love to hear your comments/reaction to it :)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Episode 114: The Myth of Martyrdom (Part 2): Who Would Die for a Lie? by CompulsoryAccount7746, Sky Captain</title>
		<link>http://freethoughtblogs.com/reasonabledoubts/2013/05/03/episode-114-the-myth-of-martyrdom-part-2-who-would-die-for-a-lie/#comment-11353</link>
		<dc:creator>CompulsoryAccount7746, Sky Captain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 May 2013 08:32:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/reasonabledoubts/?p=274#comment-11353</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Peter Waine #37:
&lt;blockquote&gt;I always wondered what went through the minds of Japanese kamikaze pilots&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&#160;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamikaze&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Article&lt;/a&gt;: Wikipedia - Kamikaze
&lt;blockquote&gt;The tradition of death instead of defeat, capture, and perceived shame was deeply entrenched in Japanese military culture.
[...]
Pilots were given a manual which detailed how they were supposed to think, prepare, and attack. From this manual, pilots were told to &quot;attain a high level of spiritual training,&quot; and to &quot;keep [their] health in the very best condition.&quot; These things, among others, were meant to put the pilot into the mindset in which he would be mentally ready to die.

The tokkotai pilot&#039;s manual also explained how a pilot may turn back if the pilot could not locate a target and that &quot;[a pilot] should not waste [his] life lightly.&quot; However, one pilot who continually came back to base was shot after his ninth return.
[...]
While commonly perceived that volunteers signed up in droves for kamikaze missions, it has also been contended that there was extensive coercion and peer pressure involved in recruiting soldiers for the sacrifice. Their motivations in &quot;volunteering&quot; were complex and not simply about patriotism or bringing honour to their families.&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Peter Waine #37:</p>
<blockquote><p>I always wondered what went through the minds of Japanese kamikaze pilots</p></blockquote>
<p>&nbsp;<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamikaze" rel="nofollow">Article</a>: Wikipedia &#8211; Kamikaze</p>
<blockquote><p>The tradition of death instead of defeat, capture, and perceived shame was deeply entrenched in Japanese military culture.<br />
[...]<br />
Pilots were given a manual which detailed how they were supposed to think, prepare, and attack. From this manual, pilots were told to &#8220;attain a high level of spiritual training,&#8221; and to &#8220;keep [their] health in the very best condition.&#8221; These things, among others, were meant to put the pilot into the mindset in which he would be mentally ready to die.</p>
<p>The tokkotai pilot&#8217;s manual also explained how a pilot may turn back if the pilot could not locate a target and that &#8220;[a pilot] should not waste [his] life lightly.&#8221; However, one pilot who continually came back to base was shot after his ninth return.<br />
[...]<br />
While commonly perceived that volunteers signed up in droves for kamikaze missions, it has also been contended that there was extensive coercion and peer pressure involved in recruiting soldiers for the sacrifice. Their motivations in &#8220;volunteering&#8221; were complex and not simply about patriotism or bringing honour to their families.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>Comment on Episode 103: Snakes and T.U.L.I.P.s by Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://freethoughtblogs.com/reasonabledoubts/2012/06/14/episode-103-snakes-and-tulips/#comment-11329</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 May 2013 07:34:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/reasonabledoubts/?p=151#comment-11329</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...]  [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Episode 114: The Myth of Martyrdom (Part 2): Who Would Die for a Lie? by Peter Waine</title>
		<link>http://freethoughtblogs.com/reasonabledoubts/2013/05/03/episode-114-the-myth-of-martyrdom-part-2-who-would-die-for-a-lie/#comment-11326</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Waine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 May 2013 08:28:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/reasonabledoubts/?p=274#comment-11326</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I always wondered what went through the minds of Japanese kamikaze pilots (apart from their wind screens that is)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always wondered what went through the minds of Japanese kamikaze pilots (apart from their wind screens that is)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Episode 114: The Myth of Martyrdom (Part 2): Who Would Die for a Lie? by Barefoot Bree</title>
		<link>http://freethoughtblogs.com/reasonabledoubts/2013/05/03/episode-114-the-myth-of-martyrdom-part-2-who-would-die-for-a-lie/#comment-11325</link>
		<dc:creator>Barefoot Bree</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 May 2013 05:41:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/reasonabledoubts/?p=274#comment-11325</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[joszef:

I heartily second Greta Christina&#039;s post linked to above by BradC. 

But I would also add to it the requirement that a good, convincing explanation be given for the lack of obvious evidence that convinced everyone for all the millennia of human existence up to the point when this fantastic, falsifiable, undeniable evidence was given. &quot;Free Will&quot; doesn&#039;t cut it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>joszef:</p>
<p>I heartily second Greta Christina&#8217;s post linked to above by BradC. </p>
<p>But I would also add to it the requirement that a good, convincing explanation be given for the lack of obvious evidence that convinced everyone for all the millennia of human existence up to the point when this fantastic, falsifiable, undeniable evidence was given. &#8220;Free Will&#8221; doesn&#8217;t cut it.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Episode 114: The Myth of Martyrdom (Part 2): Who Would Die for a Lie? by BradC</title>
		<link>http://freethoughtblogs.com/reasonabledoubts/2013/05/03/episode-114-the-myth-of-martyrdom-part-2-who-would-die-for-a-lie/#comment-11324</link>
		<dc:creator>BradC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 May 2013 21:06:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/reasonabledoubts/?p=274#comment-11324</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[joszef-

A few writers more talented than myself have given their answers to that questions, I&#039;d encourage you to read:

Greta Christina&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://freethoughtblogs.com/greta/2010/07/19/what-would-convince-this-atheist-to-believe/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;What Would Convince This Atheist To Believe?&lt;/a&gt;

Adam Lee&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/essays/the-theists-guide-to-converting-atheists/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Theist’s Guide to Converting Atheists&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>joszef-</p>
<p>A few writers more talented than myself have given their answers to that questions, I&#8217;d encourage you to read:</p>
<p>Greta Christina&#8217;s <a href="http://freethoughtblogs.com/greta/2010/07/19/what-would-convince-this-atheist-to-believe/" rel="nofollow">What Would Convince This Atheist To Believe?</a></p>
<p>Adam Lee&#8217;s <a href="http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/essays/the-theists-guide-to-converting-atheists/" rel="nofollow">The Theist’s Guide to Converting Atheists</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Episode 114: The Myth of Martyrdom (Part 2): Who Would Die for a Lie? by joszef</title>
		<link>http://freethoughtblogs.com/reasonabledoubts/2013/05/03/episode-114-the-myth-of-martyrdom-part-2-who-would-die-for-a-lie/#comment-11319</link>
		<dc:creator>joszef</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 May 2013 18:13:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/reasonabledoubts/?p=274#comment-11319</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is unrelated to the topic but I&#039;ve an honest question to any or all the atheists. Someone asked me what kind or kinds of proof SPECIFICALLY an atheist must have in order to believe in the christian tradition. Oh and you can&#039;t say &quot;show me god&quot; or &quot;Show me Jesus&quot; or &quot;Satan&quot; etc. So my question to you is the same...what would you say as an atheist speaking for atheism﻿ and for yourself personally? thanks.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is unrelated to the topic but I&#8217;ve an honest question to any or all the atheists. Someone asked me what kind or kinds of proof SPECIFICALLY an atheist must have in order to believe in the christian tradition. Oh and you can&#8217;t say &#8220;show me god&#8221; or &#8220;Show me Jesus&#8221; or &#8220;Satan&#8221; etc. So my question to you is the same&#8230;what would you say as an atheist speaking for atheism﻿ and for yourself personally? thanks.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Episode 114: The Myth of Martyrdom (Part 2): Who Would Die for a Lie? by BradC</title>
		<link>http://freethoughtblogs.com/reasonabledoubts/2013/05/03/episode-114-the-myth-of-martyrdom-part-2-who-would-die-for-a-lie/#comment-11316</link>
		<dc:creator>BradC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 May 2013 13:25:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/reasonabledoubts/?p=274#comment-11316</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mike M:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Something that you missed is the text in 1Cor. 15:6 which states that it was actually a large number that saw the resurrected Jesus. The idea is that a pretty large number of people chose to live a persecuted life (even if not martyrs) for something they all knew to be false. It would seem that a good number of these people would eventually realize that no matter what good comes out of it, it just isn’t worth living a lie.

But of course, since none of this can be verified, it still doesn’t make for a very good argument.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Right. There is no detail about who those 500 supposed witnesses were, nor are there specific, detailed stories about those witnesses later being martyred (for their belief and not for, say, inciting rebellion), which is what would be necessary to support the argument. 

And since the idea that these people &quot;chose to live a persecuted life for something they all knew to be false&quot; is, in fact, the question at issue, we can&#039;t just assume that is what happened.

The best response, in my opinion, to the claim that there were 500 witnesses to the resurrection is &quot;no, there is a &lt;i&gt;single story&lt;/i&gt; written years later by a &lt;i&gt;single writer claiming&lt;/i&gt; there were 500 witnesses. That&#039;s not the same thing.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike M:</p>
<blockquote><p>Something that you missed is the text in 1Cor. 15:6 which states that it was actually a large number that saw the resurrected Jesus. The idea is that a pretty large number of people chose to live a persecuted life (even if not martyrs) for something they all knew to be false. It would seem that a good number of these people would eventually realize that no matter what good comes out of it, it just isn’t worth living a lie.</p>
<p>But of course, since none of this can be verified, it still doesn’t make for a very good argument.</p></blockquote>
<p>Right. There is no detail about who those 500 supposed witnesses were, nor are there specific, detailed stories about those witnesses later being martyred (for their belief and not for, say, inciting rebellion), which is what would be necessary to support the argument. </p>
<p>And since the idea that these people &#8220;chose to live a persecuted life for something they all knew to be false&#8221; is, in fact, the question at issue, we can&#8217;t just assume that is what happened.</p>
<p>The best response, in my opinion, to the claim that there were 500 witnesses to the resurrection is &#8220;no, there is a <i>single story</i> written years later by a <i>single writer claiming</i> there were 500 witnesses. That&#8217;s not the same thing.&#8221;</p>
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