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Sep 19 2013

Republican Filth Getting What They Want: Two Dumshitte White-Asse Road-Raging Motherfuckers Shooting Each Other Dead In A Fucken Car Wash

Two men died Wednesday, Sept. 18, in a shootout that stemmed from a road rage confrontation, Ionia police said.

Ionia Department of Public Safety officers were dispatched to Wonder Wand Car Wash in the 400 block of South Steele Street shortly before 7 p.m. on reports of shots fired. Police arrived to find two men with gunshot wounds.

40 comments

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  1. 1
    leni

    So they’ll both get counted as gun owners preventing an act of violence?

  2. 2
    wtfwhateverd00d

    There are plenty of Democrats that support the people’s right to carry guns around.

    http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/01/17/1463981/meet-the-nra-backed-senate-democrats-who-oppose-obamas-gun-violence-prevention-plan/

    And plenty of African Americans of any part that have a deep respect for how they have needed guns to protect themselves.

    Your whining and moaning without offering any alternative is a one trick pony.

  3. 3
    wtfwhateverd00d

    How do you know either man was white?

    Are you just making racist assumptions?

    If you had pulled off a road to let an angry tailgater pass, and that person pulled in behind you and started shooting at you and your family, would you prefer to have your phd in your hand, your dick in your hand, or a gun in your hand?

  4. 4
    Thetaar

    Cmon Proffe, don’t be a fucken dumbshitte. To me you’re the premiere blogger on FfTB, but you are spouting unevidenced bullshitte this time. Don’t be like Peezus n co, lift your game and return to your normal high standard of blogging. Thanks, still a great fan though :)

  5. 5
    Eric Riley

    wtfwhateverd00d-

    #2) So – some Democrats support the gun lobby as well? Are you claiming that a pro-gun stance is not a litmus test for Republican officeholders? Further – does the second amendment allow for no limit at all to one’s “right to carry a gun around”?

    #3) While the article doesn’t indicate the race (though both men have been identified), how much do you want to bet that they were both white? (Note – according to the US Census, the odds would be about 86% – although as one of the men was a business owner, that increases the probability, plus the fact that both had concealed carry permits raises the odds even higher. I spent about 5 minutes of my morning figuring this out – if I spent a little more time (having their names), I could verify their race. So – ‘racist assumption’? No, I think not, in this case.

    And – speaking of assumptions – “If you had pulled off a road to let an angry tailgater pass, and that person pulled in behind you and started shooting at you and your family…” – that’s a nice scenario you have there, why do you assume it has any bearing on the situation?

    Thetaar – (#4) What did he say that lacked evidence? That Republicans are filth? That they want free carry of firearms? That this is a natural result of that desire? That the two men were dumbshits? That they were road raging? The *only* thing that might be in doubt is that they were both white, and while that is not explicitly stated in the article, (1) their names are published, so there is evidence as to what race they are, and (2) the odds are in his favor. Oh – another reason to suspect they were both white; their race was not mentioned in the article, you can bet that if one or the other were black, it would have been.

  6. 6
    trucreep

    @5

    Your last sentence was very poignant. Sad but true.

  7. 7
    wtfwhateverd00d

    ” Oh – another reason to suspect they were both white; their race was not mentioned in the article, you can bet that if one or the other were black, it would have been.”

    Yeah, in your fantasy world perhaps.

  8. 8
    lochaber

    I’m pretty sure that if they weren’t white, it would have been described as ‘gang related’

  9. 9
    kraut

    Gun owners taking care of themselves…call it clean up.

  10. 10
    kraut

    wtfwhateverd00d – a response and a little story. Having been a manager of a public campground (in northeast BC) for five years our door to the house inside the campground was always unlocked when we were in the house. Everybody knocked at the door at any unholy time for whatever reason and waited for a response. The only dipshit who at four in the morning stormed into our bedroom while we were sleeping, waking up the baby and demanding to have the gate opened because it was seven o’clock in New york was…1…..2….3…an american. Yeh, big surprise, eh? No sense explaining to such an arsehole that we were three hours behind.

    An american in the same situation would likely have shot the guy and got away with it. Being a Canadian I asked him to wait outside while I would get dressed to open the gate to let this arsehole out.

    Here in Canuckistan you knock at the door, and when nobody answers you open the door and yell asking if somebody is home, knowing full well that when the inhabitant is home most doors in Canuckistan homes are unlocked…even at night, often enough. And some folks in the country leave their door open when not home, because the neighbour might come in to borrow some sugar.

    You can your own conclusion from this; needless to say that handguns here are highly regulated, only to be used by peace officers and trappers on the trapline. Any private citizen can obtain a license after an eight hour instruction and a test, but can only have it in the vehicle on their way to the range for target practice and locked up at home.
    Just look at the stats and contemplate the difference.

  11. 11
    nich

    At least one of them was most certainly white. It takes about ten seconds to find a link to a Facebook page belonging to the Ionia Department of Public Safety at the bottom of one of the articles. People commenting there who claim to be family of one of the shooters are all white. People claiming to be friends of the other shooter also all seem to be overwhelmingly white. Couple that with the fact the shooters were middle aged, concealed carry holders in a Michigan backwater, and I think it is more than a racist assumption to say they were white. The Proffe posted a quick piece of profanity laden, anti-Republican vitriol, not a fucking research paper. Did you people piss and moan because NWA didn’t include citations in the liner notes for Fuck The Police?

  12. 12
    sumdum

    “If you had pulled off a road to let an angry tailgater pass, and that person pulled in behind you and started shooting at you and your family, would you prefer to have your phd in your hand, your dick in your hand, or a gun in your hand?”
    You see, that sort of thing just. does. not. happen. when people don’t have guns.

  13. 13
    Eric Riley

    wtfwhateverd00d (#7) -

    So your assertion is that race is not usually mentioned in news stories? Especially in stories dealing with shootings? “Yeah, in your fantasy world perhaps.” isn’t a rebuttal of what I said, it’s just denial. I take it that you have nothing else to contribute?

    lochaber (#8) – Yeah – that’s common shorthand for ‘non-white’. ‘Urban’ is another one…

    nich (#11) – exactly. Had I more than half an hour in the morning to play on the intertubes, I would have brought that up as well.

    sumdum (#12) – excellent point. I find that almost all arguments for carrying a gun are based on narrative rather than evidence. “What if…” And in that narrative, the person carrying the gun is *always* the good guy, the one ‘protecting his wife and children’, ‘stopping a crime’, being the white knight. Why isn’t it ever the other guy in the story? You should carry a gun so when someone cuts you off in traffic, you can pull in behind him at a car wash and shoot the fucker. Because at least one person in that scenario thought that was ok, and he was a ‘responsible gun owner’ – at least responsible *enough* that the state saw fit to issue a concealed carry permit.

    This narrative ties into the ‘an armed society is a polite society’ meme as well. The idea is that I would refrain from cutting you off in traffic because I should expect that you are armed and would then follow me to wherever I stop and try to kill me. Unspoken is the thought that killing someone over a slight is a normal thing to do. (And who is the ‘bad guy’ then? If it is *expected* that you cutting someone off would lead to “that person pulled in behind you and started shooting at you and your family” (wtfwhateverd00d, you should probably try answering this one), which of the two is justified in starting the violence?

  14. 14
    wtfwhateverd00d

    http://www.wwu.edu/journalism/syllabi/207labmanual.htm

    AP Style Guide on race (2002)

    “• Capitalize names of races and nationalities, but put descriptive adjectives in lower case
    Negro Oriental Egyptian Caucasian white black colored
    BUT: Only identify race when it is ESSENTIAL to the story (see AP Style Guide).”

    This is old news. Since at least 2002, the AP style guide avoids the use of race unless it is essential to the story, and criticizes stories that do not follow those guidelines.

    So when Eric Riley makes the statement that “You can bet” race would have been mentioned had they not been white, that is absolutely a bet I would take.

  15. 15
    ibbica

    AP Style Guide on race (2002)

    LOL for realz. ‘Cuz journalists totes follow the AP style guide, always, yup. Never try to circumvent the intent behind it by using euphemisms, no they don’t. Bias never shows in journalism, dontchano.
    XD

  16. 16
    ibbica

    …and just in case anyone is actually interested….
    http://www.woodtv.com/news/local/ionia-county/ionia-shooters-at-point-blank-range-
    …includes a “Courtesy photo of Jim Pullum and 2006 mug shot of Robert Taylor”

  17. 17
    wtfwhateverd00d

    And who should a skeptic first believe until more evidence is produced?

    The uncited, unfounded, racist speculation of social justice warriors that reporters would yell black if the either of the people involved were black or the AP Style Guide since 2002 at least stating that AP reporters are not to publish race information?

    Instead of your sneering claim no one follows the AP guide, why not put your money where your mouth is and show us three crime reports at a newspaper or major media site that discloses race where we can all agree it is not essential to the story and does not follow the AP guidelines.

  18. 18
    Al Dente

    wtfwhateverd00d @17

    And who should a skeptic first believe until more evidence is produced?

    I have to weigh the evidence. In rural upstate New York are you more likely to find whites or blacks? Is an article from a rural upstate New York news likely to mention peoples’ race if those people are white? Would the article mention race if the people were not white? Does every newspaper strictly follow the AP guidelines?

    Considering the above, I would be more likely to believe the two dead guys were white than non-white. But what do I know? I’m not a gunnut with an agenda.

  19. 19
    wtfwhateverd00d

    Al Dente,

    African Americans make up about 13.1% so yes, statistically, you can almost always guess a random person is white. But that is different from the racist speculation in this thread that journalists will cry black! black! every chance they get and so if they don’t their subject must be white.

    So instead of rationalizing your speculation, why not just take the simple test I outlined: find three incidents of a newspaper site or major media site identifying the race of people in a story where race is not essential to understanding the story.

  20. 20
    Eric Riley

    wtfwhateverd00d – I’ll do your homework for you when you bother answering any of my questions above. Plus – how is this ‘racist speculation’? (Not to mention, you’re losing points for the strawman of, “speculation in this thread that journalists will cry black! black! every chance they get and so if they don’t their subject must be white.”, which is not what anyone has claimed.

  21. 21
    ceesays

    once again for those who insist on being brand new–

    only white people don’t have their race indicated in news articles about them committing crimes.

    and when was the last time you saw “names withheld to protect” applied to anyone but white people? again, for those insisting on being brand new? it was tuesday the 48th of neverhappenedember.

  22. 22
    wtfwhateverd00d

    ““speculation in this thread that journalists will cry black! black! every chance they get and so if they don’t their subject must be white.”, which is not what anyone has claimed.”

    It is precisely what everyone is claiming here. That if the men were not white their race would be mentioned.

  23. 23
    wtfwhateverd00d

    Since I am a skeptic, unlike you social justice warrior faux skeptics, I stand pat demanding evidence of your claims that journalists mention race even when the story does not demand it.

    I’ve asked for three examples, and all you guys can do is whine that I am being mean to you and stomp your feet insisting that journalists are racist.

  24. 24
    nich

    @23:

    It is precisely what everyone is claiming here

    Others may have but I did not. I did some RESEARCH and then concluded you are a fucking idiot. They were white, which everybody here who is not a hyperskeptical, everybody-is-a-reverse-racist-shouting douchebag tried to tell you, Captain Sooperskeptic. Given the concealed carry permits, they were also probably 2nd Amendment fapping fucktards who would be alive today if they were not. In no way, shape, or form did driving around with a gun stuffed down their tighty-whities make them safer. How fucking dangerous is it in fucking Ionia fucking Michigan that you need to carry everywhere you go? I looked it up. Ionia County has averaged less than a homicide per year since 1999. Those two morons probably did more to raise the homicide rate in that county on their own than any other fucking factor that would justify the need to hide a derringer in their garter in the first place.

  25. 25
    Eric Riley

    wtfwhateverd00d – “the racist speculation in this thread that journalists will cry black! black! every chance they get and so if they don’t their subject must be white.” and “If the men were not white their race would be mentioned.” are actually two different things. Further, the major claim is *not* that journalists always point out non-white race (even in crime stories), but that when race is not mentioned at all, the person involved is almost certainly white.

    I initially pointed out the probabilistic argument going from just the story linked – and pointed out that a small amount of research would lead to more (indirect) evidence that both men were white. Nich, in #11 gave more evidence, and ibbica (#16) found photos showing that they were white. Now, why are you assuming that Comrade Physioproffe didn’t do a little more checking to see that they were both white?

    And speaking of whining – here are your three examples:

    http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/phillipsburg/index.ssf/2013/09/phillipsburg_murder_suspect_li.html
    “Newton has been described as a black man, standing roughly 6 feet, 2 inches tall and weighing 180 pounds. He may be driving an older model, full-size white SUV, according to police.”

    http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/16/is-this-the-face-of-aaron-alexis-the-accused-navy-yard-shooter/
    “Early reports after the Navy Yard shooting the said suspect was a bald black man, which matches the mug shot from a 2010 arrest for a firearm charge.”

    In this one race is not explicitly mentioned, but the assailant(s) were described as having dreadlocks:
    http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/national/chicago-shooting-authorities-searching-for-suspects-after-13-hit-in-overnight-shooting

    “The child’s uncle, Julian Harris, told the Chicago Sun-Times that dreadlocked men in a gray sedan shot at him Thursday night before turning toward nearby Cornell Square Park and opening fire.”

    And before you tell me I am the one being racist for assuming that means ‘black’, take a look at the comments – “Interesting, a mass shooting by a black male in chicago and the liberals don’t flinch. But one shot get fired anywhere else and the guns need to go.”

  26. 26
    Eric Riley

    wtfwhateverd00d – Your three examples are awaiting moderation. So – let’s sum up your points (I hesitate to call them ‘arguments’):

    (1) Democrats do it to!

    To which I first asked, “So?”, with the followup, “Are you claiming that a pro-gun stance is not a litmus test for Republican officeholders?” You abandoned that line.

    (2) African Americans want guns for self defense too!

    I ignored this one as a non sequitur – as your first point is really – what do either have to do with the title of this post?

    (3) Racist assumptions!

    Which you can’t seem to get away from – even after I and others have shown you that the assumption that both men are white is not, in itself, racist. There are various pieces of evidence that one can use (including finding photographs of both men) as a rational basis for the statement, “…Two [Dumshitte] White-Asse…”. Why are you assuming that Comradde Physioprof didn’t bother to look into this any further.

    (4) Hero scenario!

    Since you haven’t responded to my comments about this one, I assume (rationally) that you have no support for such a scenario being a basis for gun policy. I would note that kraut, sumdum and myself have all spoken to this, and you have ignored it in favor of calling us “social justice warriors” (as though that is an insult – weird), and claiming that what we are saying is, “uncited, unfounded, racist speculation” about *reporters*. Well- I’ve given you three examples – so does that make our speculation cited, founded, and no longer racist? Or – as I predict – will you try to weasel out of those examples as not being ‘good enough’ examples?

    Further – you call yourself a skeptic, but you do not seem to be applying your skepticism to your own beliefs, only those of others. What’s your actual position here? That everyone should carry a firearm at all times? That everyone should be allowed to conceal-carry? That the Republican (NRA) policy on gun control is well reasoned and will result in a safer country for us all? That neither of these men were, in fact, dumbassed road raging white men that killed each other with guns they carried legally under policies enacted primarily by Republicans?

  27. 27
    wtfwhateverd00d

    Eric,

    The first example you give is one where race is essential to the story since police are currently seeking the individual, see http://www.poynter.org/how-tos/newsgathering-storytelling/diversity-at-work/166506/ap-stylebook-updates-entry-on-racial-ids-in-news-stories/

    The second details early reports after a mass shooting where it was thought there were multiple shooters who might still be on the loose. I’ll let you decide if that early description about a person being sought by the police in a mass shooting was relevant or not.

    The third one, a person with dreadlocks must be black is exactly your own racism coming in to play. Indeed, once again a social justice douchebag sees a blue sky and calls it red. The report absolutely did not identify race so you use it as an example of a report identifying someone by race.

    And your justification? Because commenters are as racist as you are, therefore the reporter was racist too.

  28. 28
    wtfwhateverd00d

    If you look at this article by Romenesko in 2011, http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/mediawire/141747/arkansas-democrat-gazette-police-beat-column-identifies-suspects-by-race/ , you can see that it is considered outside the norm for reporters to identify by race and was criticized.

    Regardless though you never received that memo, you and your other social justice warrior blowhards insist that media always follow this practice that has been outside the norm for more than a decade.

  29. 29
    wtfwhateverd00d

    “(1) Democrats do it to!

    To which I first asked, “So?”, with the followup, “Are you claiming that a pro-gun stance is not a litmus test for Republican officeholders?” You abandoned that line.

    (2) African Americans want guns for self defense too!

    I ignored this one as a non sequitur – as your first point is really – what do either have to do with the title of this post?”

    I haven’t abandoned any line and both of these point to Physioprof’s taking a nuanced situation where there are many 2nd Amendment supporters across parties, across racial lines, and positions it as strictly some sort of white Republican phenomena.

    “(3) Racist assumptions!

    Which you can’t seem to get away from – even after I and others have shown you that the assumption that both men are white is not, in itself, racist. There are various pieces of evidence that one can use (including finding photographs of both men) as a rational basis for the statement, “…Two [Dumshitte] White-Asse…”. Why are you assuming that Comradde Physioprof didn’t bother to look into this any further.”

    Yes, you’re right, assuming, that a man in Michigan is white, when Michigan is 80% white, especially in rural Michigan outside of an urban center, is not racism.

    But assuming two gun owners are white when you have no other details is as racist as when you read a report of a crime and you think it was probably a black man behind that crime.

  30. 30
    nich

    But assuming two gun owners are white when you have no other detail is is as racist as when you read a report of a crime and you think it was probably a black man behind that crime.

    Holy shit. THE OP LINKED TO THE DAMN ARTICLE. Everything you needed to know to make the reasonable assumption both morons were white was right fucking there, or just a few clicks away. There was plenty of fucking detail. Stupidity of this magnitude has got to be willful.

  31. 31
    Eric Riley

    Yeah – I think so – and notice how he sidesteps *everything fucking else*, in addition to claiming the examples I gave weren’t adequate. He’s clearly not open to honest debate, nor is he really adding anything to the discussion.

    wtfwhateverd00d – claiming people are racist for pointing out the racism in crime reporting is not just intellectually dishonest (especially when you decide to ignore any evidence that might counter your position), it’s an old and overused tactic. You aren’t being skeptical, you’re being dull. BTW – I gave you the statistic for prevalence of white people in Ionia – and it’s not 80%, it is 92.7%, I even went to the trouble of calculating the odds that they were both white absent any other information – remember? It’s about 86%. Where are you getting this 80% number that you pulled out of your ass?

    Is that really the totality of your argument? “Uh-uh because you’re all racist whiners”? Pathetic.

  32. 32
    gwen

    Funny, I HAVE pulled over to allow aggressive tailgaters by. They then continue down the street. End of story. No guns, no words….see how easy that is? I’ve also pulled boner moves on the street and end up apologizing profusely because I was wrong…then we continue on our way… no guns involved. This is a culture that rewards ramping up confrontation in a ‘manly’ way. Stupid machismo gets people killed.

  33. 33
    Eric Riley

    Hi Gwen – an excellent point missed in everything else – “This is a culture that rewards ramping up confrontation in a ‘manly’ way. Stupid machismo gets people killed.” Real men don’t back down. Real men protect their property (including wives and family, which always seem to be thrown in as props in this kind of story).
    I wonder – what are the odds of women doing something like this? Almost nil, I would imagine. If the story had not explicitly mentioned that the two were men, would anyone have thought otherwise (despite the risk that such an assumption would be considered ‘sexist’ no doubt).
    Of course, many men don’t behave that way, but when something like that happens, it is much more likely to be men, white men, than anyone else – even taking race and sex as proportion of the overall population. I suspect it’s the sense of privilege that comes along with being a white male.

  34. 34
    Thetaar

    @ 21 ceesays: hey ceepolk, lucky this isn’t the shitty atheism plus forum, at least CP doesn’t ban people for nothing like you and those degenerate “global moderators” (lol) did there. Am wondering why you flounced from there anyway. Your insanity always provided the most lulz.

  35. 35
    Thetaar

    To ceepolk, your stupid bullshit about how blacks can’t be racist? You yourself are racist towards white people. Normal people can see through your crap.

  36. 36
    Eric Riley

    wtfwhateverd00d – (#29)

    I must’ve missed this when I was first reading you response – it helps others when you give some indication of which text is yours by block-quoting or using quotation marks around what others are saying when you respond – for example, you said:

    I haven’t abandoned any line and both of these point to Physioprof’s taking a nuanced situation where there are many 2nd Amendment supporters across parties, across racial lines, and positions it as strictly some sort of white Republican phenomena.

    I said ‘abandoned’ because you have yet to respond to any of my comments re: Democrats and blacks – it’s nice to know you might have something to say. So – go on – explain the nuance to me. By the way – nice touch calling them all ’2nd amendment supporters’, that’s some good spin your putting on. Here’s a followup that happens to relate to what we know about this story so far – both men had concealed carry permits, and we know they are both white from the photos sourced in #16 by ibbica. Interestingly, one of those photos is from a mug shot, which leads to the question, “is it an infringement of someone’s second amendment rights to refuse them a concealed carry permit for a prior offense”? How about to refuse concealed carry permits for *any* reason? I hesitate to waste time asking questions you probably won’t answer, but one more – let’s turn this into a debate about the ‘support of the 2nd amendment’ – Do you agree (or not) that it is reasonable to expect that there are some situations in which one’s 2nd amendment right to keep and bear arms can be limited? If so, what are those limits? If not – why not?

    Thetar – you’re back! I’m not sure why you are carrying on about this ceepolk person, even if they are ceesays, since ceesays didn’t say anything remotely like, “blacks can’t be racist”, nor did they make any racist remarks towards white people, so I’m not sure where you’re getting, “You yourself are racist towards white people.”… BTW- any thoughts on my response to #4, or anything actually related to the topic of this thread?

  37. 37
    Eric Riley

    Son of a bitch – the perils of typing html by hand – I ‘closed’ the tag with the wrong slash. Hopefully that won’t be too confusing as wordpress evidently doesn’t believe in post-posting edits.

  38. 38
    Grumble

    “There are plenty of Democrats that support the people’s right to carry guns around.”

    How exactly does this impact the central thesis of CPP’s post, which is that this incident is evidence of Republican Filth Getting What They Want?

    Republicans are still filth, even if some Democrats are, too. Democrats are sometimes even bigger filth because they don’t stand up to the NRA bozos because of political expediency. Many children (and many adults) (and the two dumbshits at the carwash) are dead because the NRA bought the Republicans and too many Democrats sat on their asses. And continue to sit, even as people keep getting shot in completely preventable ways.

    But none of that changes the fact that… Republicans are filth.

  39. 39
    todmann67

    Even if they were white, I doubt republicans want their constituents killing each other.

  40. 40
    skeptifem

    todmann,
    its the same way that they don’t want a bunch of teen mothers but insist on abstinence only sex education programs. They are ‘getting what they want’ because things like this are the obvious result of their policy.
    hope that cleared some things up for you

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