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Feb 13 2010

Morality Of Defaulting On Secured Loans

Mike The Mad Fucking Biologist has an interesting post up today about defaulting, or threatening to default, on mortgages.

Corporations default on secured loans every fucking day simply as a business judgment, and no one says jack fuck about it being some sort of “moral failure”. And they threaten to default to renegotiate eleventeen fuckjillion times a day. Moralizing about home-owners defaulting on mortgages or threatening to default is nothing but corporate plutocrat propaganda.

38 comments

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  1. 1
    PalMD

    I’ve been watching Mike’s posts on this, and it’s been really interesting. Not a lot of folks are saying this, and he says it well.

  2. 2
    leigh

    phase 1- tie it to “moral values”
    phase 2- ?? (capture population that lives and dies by “moral values” i guess)
    phase 3- profit!

  3. 3
    The Barefoot Bum

    That’s weird: the bourgeoisie almost never constructs and propagandizes the moral standards that will accrue to its profit and continued rule.

  4. 4
    The Barefoot Bum

    Remember: there are no objectively true ethical principles. There are only principles that serve the interests of different people — or different classes of people — more or less well.

  5. 5
    vegofish

    Lie cheat and steal
    The ends will justify the means
    How in the fuck do you sleep at night?

  6. 6
    The Barefoot Bum

    Ah Vego. I see we can add contract economics and law to the topics about which you have absolutely no understanding whatsoever.

  7. 7
    vegofish

    What I understand is apparently the justification for a homeowner to chicken shit on a lender is that chicken shit corporate boards sometimes chicken shit on lenders.
    Life must indeed be easier to live when you have no Soul.

  8. 8
    Far

    Vegofish, it is only stealing if you continue to stay in the house. The contract specifies that if you stop making payments the house returns to the bank. It is a business transaction and there is nothing moral or immoral about it. The reason banks charge an interest is to cover inflation AND possible defaults. Some level of default is built into the models they employ to charge interest.

  9. 9
    The Barefoot Bum

    Only Randian, eliminationist assholes — who supposedly hold contracts as sacrosanct — would consider actually fulfilling the terms of the contract to constitute “chicken shit”. Anyone who has even superficially studied contract law will know that a “breach” of contract is remedied and made whole by paying the damages, and mortgages explicitly specify the remedy for failure to make the periodic payment, i.e. they specify the alternative whereby the contract is fulfilled.

  10. 10
    The Barefoot Bum

    I find it hilariously ironic and evidence of enormous flas in vegofish’s intellectual and moral character that he (?) would be completely confused about a fundamental element of what appears to be his own political and economic ideology.

  11. 11
    Genomic Repairman

    Businesses that can’t pay usually get their contracts modified. But when an individual takes the same measures in order to try and get a modification, its chicken shit! That is fucking retarded.

  12. 12
    The Barefoot Bum

    Actually, vegofish’s comment illustrates a component of Randian eliminationism that’s usually kept more or less covert: the “unbreachable” contract as a moral justification for literal slavery.

  13. 13
    vegofish

    Your correct, at that point it would not be stealing, unless your bank account was still full of refinance money, just lying and cheating. So when you sign your name to a promissory note, and you promise to abide by the stipulations set forth there in, that a person has absolutely no moral obligation whatsoever to fulfill that contract? This is what you are saying? And the justification for this is that business sometimes default on loans and also it is okay because banks know that their are dirt bag immoral leftists out there just waiting to fuck them over? these are your justifications for abdicating any personal responsibility in fulfilling your obligations?
    Now maybe explain to me again how it is not the left that has places like California so completely fucked up.

  14. 14
    vegofish

    Contracts are modified, renegotiated and otherwise breached to use cpp’s terminology a “fuckjillion” times a day, without using default as a remedy.
    Nobody forces anyone to sign on the dotted line,
    except the leftist shitheels who feel an obligation to make sure that every welfare recipient and minimum wage employee has the right to purchase a home. Living within one’s means is so, so, so,
    moral, we must avoid that.

  15. 15
    Comrade PhysioProf

    Contracts are modified, renegotiated and otherwise breached to use cpp’s terminology a “fuckjillion” times a day, without using default as a remedy.

    Dumbfuck, default of a secured loan is a course of action by the borrower that is explicitly contemplated by the fucking contract. To default on a secured loan is *within* the structure of the contract. Furthermore, one of the reasons that contracts can *be* modified and renegotiated is that parties to contracts understand the economic concept of “efficient breach”.

    There is no moral dimension to any of this except a false one sought to be imposed by those who stand to benefit when borrowers fail to make use of all of their options to optimize their benefit under the contract.

    Fuck-ups like you repeat oligarch propaganda that–unless you are in the top 0.1% of income in the United States–inures exactly to your own economic detriment. Heckuva job, dumbass.

  16. 16
    vegofish

    Abdication of personal responsibility in favor of the easy road, where the nanny state is always ready to make everything superficially okay is a hallmark of the immoral left.

  17. 17
    The Barefoot Bum

    Abdication of personal responsibility…

    One exercises, not abdicates, ones personal contractually obligated responsibility by forfeiting the house on foreclosure. It is statements like these that demonstrate beyond a reasonable doubt that you do not have the first fucking clue what you’re talking about.

  18. 18
    Comrade PhysioProf

    Dude, vegodouche is just mindlessly repeating shit he hears from right-wing oligarch propaganda outlets. He’s not even *trying* to have a fucking clue what he’s talking about.

  19. 19
    The Barefoot Bum

    CPP: I know. Is there anything specific you’d like me to do, other than my ordinary strategy of heaping insults and abuse on clueless jackasses?

    Keep in mind that vegofish has gone beyond arguing for free market economics and laissez faire capitalism, and has begun arguing for slavery in all but name, which makes him not just clueless, not just an asshole, not just a jackass, but actually evil. Not only that, but he’s arguing for slavery in what he knows to be a room full of liberals (and at least one communist) which makes him a pathetic loser… or perhaps clinically insane.

  20. 20
    Comrade PhysioProf

    Is there anything specific you’d like me to do, other than my ordinary strategy of heaping insults and abuse on clueless jackasses?

    Keep it up!

  21. 21
    The Barefoot Bum

    You don’t have to tell me twice. :-)

  22. 22
    Far

    This is pretty interesting. One of the hallmarks of the Randian ‘Objectivist’ Selfishness-is-Awesome philosophy is that you pursue what is best for yourself and fuck the rest. Now when some people actually start doing that suddenly they are being told they are immoral. If corporations are persons, and they increasingly are, then the actions they can engage in can also be engaged in by a regular person. Now, I am not particularly toward the left but I think there is nothing immoral about taking the best possible legally sound choice among a set of choices that maximizes your utility.

  23. 23
    The Barefoot Bum

    The choice to default is not just legally sound, it is also explicitly contractually specified.

  24. 24
    Comrade PhysioProf

    Dude, you and your commie leftist statist “contract law”.

  25. 25
    The Barefoot Bum

    Indeed. I think their contributions to contract law were both Lenin and Mao’s greatest achievements.

  26. 26
    History Punk

    My friend got this “moral failure” line of shit when he called Comcast to ask them for a lower bill or have them cancel his service. He was even told to be ashamed of himself for having “the gall” to ask for a discount and that failing to pay his bill in full was shameful.

    Of course, he never failed to pay his bill in full because he terminated his service.

  27. 27
    vegofish

    This guy one of your mean geniuses barefoot?
    Comcast??? What a fine example of a leftist view of moral equivalency…
    Comcast, wow that’s speaking truth to power, of course the “friend” here is really you now isn’t it? Kinda like the talk you had at the clinic about your “friend” who couldn’t get it up?

  28. 28
    The Barefoot Bum

    Vegofish, you have descended from jackassery, assholiness, delusion, and stupidity into actual incoherence. I cannot even reliably determine whether or not you’re actually insulting anyone, much less who you’re insulting and how you’re doing so.

    I’m sincerely curious: What subjective, individual benefit are you deriving from posting here? Is it some masochistic urge to “prove” your commitment to your dogma by enduring the derision and contempt of the heretics and infidels?

  29. 29
    vegofish

    I sincerely like to mock communist assholes. Look man,
    I understand your desire for the nanny state, and of course academics who adhered to the dogma were well coddled in the former soviet block countries, at least in comparison to general population of useful idiots.
    I guess that is why there were so so many major advances in science and technology that came from the communists during the second half of the 20th century, all while free enterprise stagnated the human condition in the rest of the world, eventually leading to revolt and the break up of the USA into smaller nations.

  30. 30
    The Barefoot Bum

    I sincerely like to mock communist assholes.

    Fair enough. Except first, I’m the only real communist asshole here. The rest are liberal capitalist assholes, the same kind of liberal capitalists assholes who rescued the US from the Great Depression — the depression, I might remind you, that you laissez faire assholes got us into and couldn’t get us out of — won World War II, presided over the greatest peacetime expansion of the economy, and who have been predominantly running the entire Western World since the middle of the last century.

    Second, mockery without some larger purpose seems sterile, empty and pathetic. It’s pointless (not to mention dangerous) to walk into a KKK meeting and mock them for being racists (and stupid to mock them on the basis that the white race hasn’t ever accomplished anything). You want to mock your enemies to the “undecided middle”. The only people who will read your commentary here (not even counting your inability to grasp basic well-understood facts and concepts) will see you as anything but a pathetic, masochistic loser who can’t even find the Stormfront (JFGI) community.

  31. 31
    The Barefoot Bum

    er…. will see you as nothing but a pathetic, masochistic loser…

  32. 32
    marilynmann

    What pisses me off is when creditors call a person’s grieving family after their family member has died and convince them to pay the family member’s debts.

  33. 33
    jre

    I take no pleasure in saying this, vegofish (since I’d really like to see an interesting contest) — but you’re out of your weight class here.

  34. 34
    Katharine

    “guess that is why there were so so many major advances in science and technology that came from the communists during the second half of the 20th century, all while free enterprise stagnated the human condition in the rest of the world, eventually leading to revolt and the break up of the USA into smaller nations.”

    LOL, vegofish doesn’t understand non-black-and-white politics.

    Then again, it’s a hallmark of conservatives to look at everything in black and white.

  35. 35
    The Barefoot Bum

    vegofish doesn’t understand…

    Could’ve stopped right there. ‘-)

  36. 36
    vegofish

    I understand the difference between success and failure just fine. I also understand the difference between good and evil and right and wrong, all topics that the left struggle to comprehend.

  37. 37
    The Barefoot Bum

    I also understand the difference between good and evil and right and wrong…

    Of course, vego: anyone who disagrees with you is evil and wrong, and probably fit only for Soylent Green.

  38. 38
    Robert

    Secured loans are really a fast alternative if you need quick money.

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