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Health Care And Justice

I know we live in a depraved country that has been nearly completely destroyed by sick-fuck right-wing “I got mine, so FUCK YOU!” conservatism. But there was a time when fairness, equity, and justice were considered intrinsically valuable.

This depravity is playing itself out in the health care “debate”. Obama and the rest of the Dems are basically arguing in favor of health care “reform” by trying to convince people who already have what they consider to be acceptable health care that the “reforms” on the table might directly help them if they lose their jobs or suffer catastrophe or whatthefuckever.

I have yet to hear anyone firmly make the argument to the mainstream that it is decent and right and just that all Americans have access to health care, and that it is despicable and wrong and unjust to allow Americans to unduly suffer and die for lack of reasonable access to health care. How pathetic is it that we have become a nation where the notion of collective decisionmaking that benefits the collective but not necessarily every single individual considered separately is considered completely out of the realm of political possibility?

Comments

  1. says

    I have yet to hear anyone firmly make the argument to the mainstream that it is decent and right and just that all Americans have access to health care, and that it is despicable and wrong and unjust to allow Americans to unduly suffer and die for lack of reasonable access to health care.

    Well I did. But I don’t think that many people of the variety that matter were probably listening. Seriously – is this really a difficult concept to grasp?

    I recently ran across an argument by a rather conservative Christian of my acquaintance *against* government-provided health care. “Oh this oughtta be rich,” I thought. And was surprised to find my same argument – that is decent and right to take care of other human beings who don’t have the means to care for themselves – couched in different terms indicative of her context. Her argument is that this is not the government’s job. That Christians are called and compelled to fill this role and that they’ve dropped the ball. Now, I didn’t feel like really getting into the fact that compassion is not under the exclusive purview of the Church…but it was interesting to hear my argument in a different context. I told her that we are arguing for the very same thing. She wants all Christians to step up. I want all Americans to step up. So let’s stop arguing about it and get it done already.

  2. BB says

    I’m fighting back against the wing nuts at the town hall meetings- sending e-mails to my congresspeople, letting them know I want some kind of health care reform. Let’s tell all our reps in Congress know how we feel; no shouting matches at town hall meetings, but reasoned written messages.

  3. Larry H. says

    But there was a time when fairness, equity, and justice were considered intrinsically valuable.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! You fucking crack me up, comrade.

  4. says

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! You fucking crack me up, comrade.

    How about this?

    There was a time when we at least pretended that fairness, equity, and justice were considered intrinsically valuable.

    Better? lolz

  5. bikemonkey says

    Funny, the Christers are usually not at all reticent about trying to legislate their religious imperatives. Why the distinction here?

  6. bustedsbro says

    Hey PP,

    Gotta say I love this debate but can’t for the life of me figure out why everyone is so bent about health care reform. There’s nothing wrong with the health providers, it’s the insurance companies. I can believe the spineless dems caved on the single payer system which would be real reform but it is soooo complicated that the yous and mes can’t figure it out. Fuck me, that what I get now as a 45 yr old male who hasn’t had to go to the doctor in over 7 yrs but have paid in the 10s of thousands of dollars over the same period to have the security of mind that it’s there when I need it. Fucking thieves. You know the sonofabitch that runs US care makes 104,000 an hr. that’s right. Can you say no lubrication whatsoeva. To bad those motherfuckers didn’t have to take a hypocratic oath. First do no harm. I agree absolutely with you that it is a sorry state of affairs that we can not do for those that cannot do for themselves.

    Bustedsbro

  7. peter says

    To bad those motherfuckers didn’t have to take a hypocratic oath.

    The state of the american health care system might be an example of hypocrisy, but the oath is called “Hippocratic”.

    Again, every country gets the health care system it deserves.
    And when the insurance companies fuck the willingly paying citizen, then all he deserves is to bend over and take it without Vaseline.
    And he should get it with a sandpaper covered insurance dick because he after all is too fucking stupid to realize that he gets completely fucked.

  8. Larry H. says

    There was a time when we at least pretended that fairness, equity, and justice were considered intrinsically valuable.

    Definitely more accurate. But how is such a pretense any more admirable than the pretense that we were ruled by a just and loving God?

    It is — or so I suspect — a scientific truth that human behavior, including the formation of social constructs such as fairness, equity and “justice”, emerge from the interplay of competing material interests, both individual and class interests. There’s definitely no evidence that leads us to believe that ethical and political principles have independent existence, that they’re the sort of things we can discover rather than construct or invent.

    Why shouldn’t we go directly to the source? It’s true that universal health really is in the interests of not only those without health care, but whose present health care is precarious and uncertain. Nothing about this argument undermines the argument that we also empathize with our fellow citizens and it’s also in our self-interest to take care of them.

    Of course, a big part of the right-wing propaganda is undermining the social construct of social cooperation and mutual empathy. This feature has its intellectual roots in Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged (a work showing a contempt of compassion and mutuality that rivals Mein Kampf). But we have to face facts: It’s fallacious to assert we ought to be compassionate and empathetic for their own sake. If we are going to make an “ought” argument, we have to argue that we will be individually better off in a compassionate society that strives for mutual benefit.

    That argument is pretty much obviously true: The “pure” case of the lassiez faire Randian/Libertarian/Republican society is the slave state, and slave states haven’t been economically viable since about the fifth century: every political unit that has embodied social constructs of more compassion and mutualism has economically overwhelmed those with less.

    (The struggle between communism and capitalism might seem to contradict this view; it doesn’t, but that’s an extended argument for another time.)

  9. says

    The biggest problem in America is how much of a political anathema it is to even broach the possibility of a reduction in military spending. So politicians are left with talking about raising taxes (as if there was no other source of money) which leads to all the so called “debate” where there need be none. For a country whose population is not all that jingoistic by global standards, I’m always baffled why it is not more commonly accepted to question America’s military spending which is insanely disproportional to that of any other country.

  10. Catharine says

    A-Fucking-men CPP. Why don’t y’all tell all of your fucking idiot Christian “friends” that Jesus was a fucking communist and that using the pages of the Bible as rolling paper would bring them !11!!111!! times closer to “spiritual enlightenment” than going to church, reading, and swearing on that fucker ever will. Public school, transportation, parks, etc. OK and public health not OK? WTF? I will NEVER understand….

  11. A says

    I gotta give my 2 cents. Sure, some of the people against health-care reform are cold-hearted a-holes who don’t give a crap about their fellow citizens, but for most of them, that’s not the case.

    People are fucking *scared*, myself included. Scared of what the notoriously inefficient, bloated government will do if it begins to control more and more of the health-care system. Scared of having the quality of available health care suffer; scared of out-of-control spending. Scared of taking away the monetary incentives that encourage some of the brightest people to become doctors; scared of taking away profit incentives for innovative research by pharmaceutical developers. Scared of the government taking away more of some people’s hard-earned money to pay for other people. Scared of the government making life so comfortable for people, that those people no longer have incentive to work hard and better the world.

    Assuage these fears, and I think you’ll find a lot more people on board for health-care reform. Eleventy!

  12. says

    Empathy is SO last season. Not giving a damn about anyone else is what makes me cool. And that’s all I have to cling to now that the music I like plays on the oldies station and I can only buy clothes I like at Goodwill. I’M COOL, RIGHT KIDS?

  13. says

    Scared of the government taking away more of some people’s hard-earned money to pay for other people.

    Why are you not even scarededer of the gov’t taking away more of people’s hard-earned money so that unbelievably wealthy people can retain more of their easy-pickins money that itself was “earned” by taking away hard-working people’s money?

  14. A says

    As in fucking bail-outs of these giant companies so they can continue to fuck us and fuck up and give their executives huge fucking bonuses? Yeah, that’s even bigger bullshit.

  15. says

    oh, the sick-fucks get even wackier… i encountered someone recently who sounded about like this:

    “40% of households don’t pay taxes!!!!111!1!!!! OMGWTF!!!1!1 the problem with this country is that any old fucking broke ass motherfucker can VOTE. i say our forefathers had shit right when they only let PROPERTY OWNERS vote. i think we should only let people who own real estate vote. you want to decide how the money is spent, you should have some in the game.”

    i can’t even begin to untwist that sick-fuck bullshit, but i at least called the guy a stupid anti-american motherfucker.

  16. JThompson says

    You know what you should be scared of? The conservative/libertarian idea of free market medicine. The “theory” that the best way to remove the high costs of health care is to remove the protected status of doctor and government enforcement of it. The short version of the argument is: The government is preventing competition by not letting just anyone claim to be a doctor.
    Every toothless illiterate NASCAR watching motherfucker being able to treat people would lower costs, I guess.

    The notoriously inefficient government. The same inefficient government that keeps roads intact, mail running, electricity flowing, tapwater drinkable, etc etc.
    The reason people think the government is so inefficient is because the only programs they notice are ones that have major problems.

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