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LOON ALERT LEVEL INFINITY! (UPDATED)

Some of our favorite loons just keep the wackaloonery flowing!

First, we’ve got obsessive high-school debate-team champion Michael Hawkins in a steel-cage death-match with the rhetorical voices in his head:

Please refrain from setting up strawmen based upon your flawed English.

Let’s examine the sentence.

“For more conclusive proof, one can simply recognize no ultimate source of morality.”

Refer to the rest of the paragraph. “For more conclusive proof” is dependent upon two sentences. The first is the one that contains “that morality is objective” and the second is “This is not true”. In other words, “For more conclusive proof” has the implied clause “that morality is not objective”. You failed to recognize this. Your sentence now reads like this.

“For more conclusive proof that morality is not objective, one can simply recognize that there is no ultimate source of morality.”

This is redundant and pedantic. It adds unnecessary clauses to the sentence. It is inefficient.

* * *

You are saying that you fully agree with my argument (”morality is not objective”), yet you think my argument is flawed. If you wish to agree with flawed arguments, that’s up to you, but what I think you meant to say is you agree with my argument but you’re incorrectly trying correct the phrasing of my argument.

Dude, you’re gonna WIN THE DEBATE!!11!!1! You’re so close! (Just make sure you have some tissues handy.)

Second, we’ve got obsessive paranoid authoritarian sockpuppet explosion loon Isabel/YouKnowWho/Anonymous/MyWorkIsDoneHere/WhatMeWorry/TroolyMcTrollster/GodIsMyCopilot/ILoveYouToo/etc dueling with racist shadows:

In other words it’s a cult led by Isis and CPP that is practicing exactly what it condemns!

Yes! It is a CULT!11!!1!!1!ELEVENTY!1!!1!

It’s also disturbing that CPP and Isis actively promote Hot Female worship, but ban men from participating under mob rule. That’s discrimination in my book.There’s also a puritan flavor to all this that I find distasteful.

NO! It’s a MOB! A PURITAN MOB!11!!

You seem like a normal, reasonable person. However, you don’t seem to understand that THIS IS HOW THESE PEOPLE OPERATE! It’s the science blogs mob mentality.

NO! WAIT! It’s a SCIENCEBLOGS MOB!!

The irony of THAT situation is lost on the losers. They also make racist remarks about people they have decreed to be “racists” ?! Weird!

OK. I’ve got it! We’re a HYPOCRITICAL RACIST PURITAN FEMALE-WORSHIPING SCIENCEBLOGS LOSER SHRILL CULT MOB!!!11!!1! MUWAQHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!111111!!11! HIDE YOUR CHILDREN!

UPDATE: Obsessive high-school debate-team champion Michael Hawkins has just informed me that our mob is also SHRILL. I have edited the post to respond to this reviewer concern, indicating the new text–as is customary–in italics.

Comments

  1. says

    Whoa. I think you’re pretty awesome, CPP. And I also think moderating to remove trolls is totally acceptable. As some smarter bloggers than me have said, if someone comes into your house and shits on your rug, you aren’t required to let them stay.

    However, these trolls are funny. Can I join the feminist blog church?

  2. JessSnark says

    LOL, CPP, why do you keep banning men from participating under mob rule?

    And they keep going on about how it’s hypocritical for women to accept some compliments on their looks and reject others. I’m like, guys, the fact that I sleep with my boyfriend and not with you doesn’t make me a hypocrite. It makes me a person with preferences.

  3. GodIsMyCoPilot says

    “And they keep going on about how it’s hypocritical for women to accept some compliments on their looks and reject others. I’m like, guys, the fact that I sleep with my boyfriend and not with you doesn’t make me a hypocrite. It makes me a person with preferences.”

    Snarky,

    There is a small difference- a HUGE gray area in fact – between sleeping with someone and relentlessly harrassing them for their supposed sins. Think about it.

    “I think you’re pretty awesome, CPP.”

    WTF? more hero worship….

    “And I also think moderating to remove trolls is totally acceptable. As some smarter bloggers than me have said, if someone comes into your house and shits on your rug, you aren’t required to let them stay.”

    This isn’t about trolls. You still don’t get it do you? Some dude slips up and doesn’t spew the party line on Isis’ blog for a second, and a parade of commenters tell him to go to hell, they wish he was dead, fuck him etc etc etc. This is just fine with Isis! Then I carefully craft a response that points out the alarming hypocrisy of this situation and MY comment is censored?

    Yeah laugh away losers, I work at it so I hope I’m funny. But you might try just RESPONDING to my charges of hypocrisy sometime…..

  4. says

    Your trolls have invaded my blog, CPP. I had to start moderating and deleting comments that did nothing but insult my friends or my taste in friends. YKW/etc. is really fucking loony and incapable of normal social behaviour.

    If anyone is interesting in seeing more of these two arguing the same shit elsewhere go here

    P.S. Do I get a t-shirt or a mug or something for joining the cult? Otherwise I want out.

  5. Physiogroupie IV says

    This is too asinine for me to read. I just wanted to say the people who lump you and Isis and DM together are just jealous of your camaraderie.

  6. says

    sockpuppet explosion loon

    It hurts! It hurts!

    WTF? more hero worship….

    Time to comply and bust out my copy of The Gospel According to Comrade PhysioProf. Yes. This is exactly how this blog works. It couldn’t be more obvious. I agree with you completely.

  7. says

    The fundamental difference here is honesty. Those who disagree with Sheril Kirshenbaum’s post have put forth arguments why. And they aren’t arguments that condone sexism; in fact, there is often the (unfortunately needed) qualifier that sexism is rampant, especially in science, and it should be acknowledged and fought. Yet instead of responding by point, there is a mob mentality where insults and rhetoric should suffice. It’s presumable that if one is absolutely certain another person is wrong, it should be easy to go point by point and debunk all the counter arguments that have been made. Instead we get multiple “loon alerts” posts.

    Oh, and CPP says “fuck” a lot.

  8. says

    It’s presumable that if one is absolutely certain another person is wrong, it should be easy to go point by point and debunk all the counter arguments that have been made. Instead we get multiple “loon alerts” posts.

    Dude, you are fucking delusional. It has already been explained to you that virtually no one here is interested in “going point by point” and “debunking all the counter arguments”. No one gives a shit that you are totally full of shit, except as a form of entertainment.

  9. GodIsMyCoPilot says

    “Actually, LostMarbles has done so on her blog. She has shown herself as not just some shrill member of the mob.”

    Oh please. Lost Marbles is a big crybaby. And her friend Lexi is a real nutcase. How could any discussion take place with that obsessed “friend” around. Marbles would do well to steer clear of such friends and learn to use her own brain for once.

    Oh, and by the way, LOL, CPP! You’re AWESOME! Where’s my mug?

    And yes that long-winded fellow is right about one thing. NO ONE has responded to my VERY SERIOUS concerns.

  10. GodIsMyCoPilot says

    And some of your sockpuppet names are NOT ME (if you can call them sockpupets since they are obvious and there was no attempt to deceive – i.e. none commented on another’s post – isn’t that the point of a s.p.??????). I am disappointed in you CPP.

  11. says

    Damn, I stop actively reading blogs for a few days and the intertubes go bizerk!

    Someone should design a loon alert logo, much like there nifty homeland security terror threat level thinger.

  12. alby says

    “Hey Comrade! Your facist friend Isis…”

    Hahaha. Isis, you are a facist. Does that mean you’re pro or anti face?

    Is this all because you called out some misogynist puttin-the-little-ladies-in-their-pretty-place bullshit? Jesus fuck.

  13. GodIsMyCoPilot says

    Isis,

    I have no words to express my disgust with you.

    First of all your “clever” post is lame, sorry. It’s totally predictable.

    And worse, you censored my comment! And you still have not posted it! And as I showed on the other thread here (thank you CPP for being so gracious about me crashing that thread) it was totally mild, inoffensive, and mildly amusing so what’s yer problem girl?

    Please tell us.

    AND YET you use my (actually) clever use of the English language to attract people to your blog.

    CPP, as much of an asshole as he is, would never sink so low as to censor someone, and then use their copyrighted work as raw material.

    I’m posting my comment here since you are a censor like tattletale Lost Marbles.

    ps. PLEASE both you and your comrade, remove that stupid WhatMeWorry name from your stolen quotes. That is really lame and I would never use it – if you made that up CPP you have got the tone all wrong. Or else you are talking about someone else. (And I don’t ever post as anonymous)

    Also, I wanted to let everyone know that I passed my qualifying exams! Thanks for all your support, I couldn’t have done it without you.

  14. Fuckwitted Asshat says

    You motherfuckers won’t play my stupid fucking game!!!

    WAAHH!!!

    (And Isis is a totally hot, evile super-villain!!!)

  15. says

    …and then use their copyrighted work as raw material.

    Motherfucking, complete and utter, super-villainous LOON ALERT INFINITY SQUARED!!!

  16. GodIsMyCoPilot says

    “Toaster Says:

    April 7, 2009 at 11:32 am

    Pilot,

    The difference between hypocrisy and nuance is clearly larger than your understanding.

    Love,
    Toaster”

    Toaster,

    I must admit I was impressed when you nailed JLK’s Question #6 so perfectly. But you’re on shaky ground now with this empty comment. Don’t you see I am the one who is arguing for nuance? e.g. see comment above to JessSnark, who thinks if she is not going to sleep with a man who complimented her, she must have him tarred and feathered. And oh yeah “I hate racism so I hate racists and white people are by definition racists so I can express my hatred for racism by making racist remarks about white people” is so NUANCED.

  17. says

    Mocking the crackerness of academia is not the same as hate speech. Creating humor from the ridiculous antics of sexist faculty is a method to take power away from them and the stress that their actions create. While legitimate racism and sexism issues do exist in many levels and areas of science and should be discussed, it is important to note that self-effacing and dry humor are effective tools within adult discussions thereof. Saying “fuckity fuck motherfuckers” eleven times per paragraph is, to some people, a way of venting. To CPP, it’s as necessary as breathing because otherwise O2 wouldn’t bind the iron-chlorine-potassium cofactor*. Labeling sexist faculty “white douchebags” is an expression of frustration that defuses the victims’ feelings of oppression and/or negativity. You may label CPP and Dr. Isis as mobby demagogues, but the reality is that the aim is not necessarily to kick academic science in the balls, but rather to perhaps provide a forum to discuss, vent, and, most of all, educate. Maybe this understanding will help.

    Or maybe I’m completely off base. CPP, Dr. Isis? Am I?

  18. says

    Toaster, I think you’ve summed it up quite nicely. I’m thrilled you think I’m funny.

    DuWayne, I will only allow myself to be labeled super-villain if I can a Batman-style villain. Those women were hot and had awesome shoes.

    And tsk, tsk Isabel, for playing the victim. You came by my blog for the sole purpose of calling me a bad word. That earns you a time out whereby all of your comments go to moderation. Now you sit there and behave until mama tells you that you can get up and try again to play nice with the others…..

  19. Me says

    Toaster,

    How does white’ass motherfuckers afraid of spics and jungle bunnies invading their neighborhoods an expression of frustration with academia. sounds a little far fetched to me. Also isn’t much “racist” speech borne of frustration? I would think white construction workers frustrated with illegals taking their jobs and/or driving down compensation are more sympathetic than CPP and Isis, who seem to have secure jobs and comfortable lives.

    Can you state your philosophy onjectively, or is it a case by case, I know it when I see it thing? Also, I thought, based on the previous sexism discussion that *I* am in charge of deciding when something feels racist to me. Aren’t you being patronizing by telling me those anti white comments weren’t about ME and to stop worrying my little head about them?

    Sincerely

    Me

  20. Reboulia says

    “Learn Hexadecimal Says:

    April 8, 2009 at 2:38 pm

    “onjectively” is my new favourite word.”

    picking on typos is the last refuge of people who have nothing intelligent to say.

  21. Reboulia says

    “Isis the Scientist Says:

    April 8, 2009 at 12:42 pm

    That first paragraph is so absolutely incomprehensible that I cannot begin to fathom what it could possibly mean.”

    Maybe you don’t realize the comment isn’t addressed to you. Maybe you didn’t actually read Toaster’s comment correctly where he calls you a victim who needs a place to vent so you are alowed to make racist remarks. Maybe you’re just stupid. A stupid hypocrite who censors my comments and then comes over here and tries to jump into the conversation. Asshole.

  22. Reboulia says

    “And tsk, tsk Isabel, for playing the victim. You came by my blog for the sole purpose of calling me a bad word. That earns you a time out whereby all of your comments go to moderation. Now you sit there and behave until mama tells you that you can get up and try again to play nice with the others…..”

    (from Becca) John H.- I hope you just choke to death.

    (fron DuWayne)John H. –

    Fuck you.

    (from Sven)Another “Fuck you” to John.

    Why would I want to play with these hostile assholes who masquerade as enlightened liberals. You don’t know my purpose (and you censor based on having this knowledge? and you question my sanity huh?) and I didn’t call you a “bad word”. You’re a lying bitch. And this high-heel wearing earth-mother persona of yours is so irritating I am not planning on visting your blog again so don’t worry.

  23. Reboulia says

    And when did complaining about actual, admitted censorship become “playing the victim?”

  24. Learn Hexadecimal says

    picking on typos is the last refuge of people who have nothing intelligent to say.

    You’re right! I have nothing to say about your lunacy. Now that Marbles has kicked you out of her sandbox, I see no reason to continue verbally handing you your ass every time you open it and emit words. But picking on typos is funny. Don’t feel bad; I do it to everybody.

    Also, quit changing your fucking name. Shit gets old.

  25. says

    Censorship is something governments or institutions do to restrict free expression. This isn’t an institution and it isn’t a government. You are very free to go get your own bloggy platform and express whatever opinions you like. This happens to be CPP’s personal corner of the internet, and Isis’ corner is her own place. When you are a guest in someone else’s sandbox, you have to play by their rules. And since there are an infinite number of sandboxes available for you to own for free, those rules are not remotely restrictive of your freedoms.

    Racism: I do not think it means what you think it means.

    I think it’s kind of hilarious, Reboulia, that you’re calling people “assholes” and “lying bitches” and being extremely defensive and accusatory, but at the same time you’re accusing everyone else of being hostile.

  26. says

    And oh yeah “I hate racism so I hate racists and white people are by definition racists so I can express my hatred for racism by making racist remarks about white people” is so NUANCED.

    hahahahaha, missed this before.

    Yeah, this is a fundamental misunderstanding of the word in question. “Racism” has a pretty academic and rather meaning. Something that is “racist,” basically, draws on frames that have historically been discriminatory towards marginilized racial groups. For one thing, that’s context-specific – what is racist in the U.S. might lack that context in another part of the world where the history and framings of social relations are totally different. For another, it’s specific to historically oppressed and marginilized groups. White people in the U.S. are historically privileged, in general. Insulting white people might be insulting, but it does NOT meet the definition of racism. In fact, in U.S. historical context, it is almost impossible for something to be racist against white people. It doesn’t mean discrimination disappears – it’s just NOT the word for what you mean.

    That’s why people are kind of laughing at you and not bothering to argue. You don’t even fundamentally understand the vocab you are throwing around in such an incendiary and angry way. That communicates that you aren’t arguing in good faith, and that with the insulting people in nasty, gendered ways makes you sound like nothing but a run-of-the-mill troll.

    Which you probably are. Don’t know why I feel like bothering today, since trolls will always find something else to be mad about. And I’m already pissed about the gendered insults. But I’m also kind of sick of seeing interesting discussions at blogs I like derailed by people who are just here to stir up shit.

  27. Reboulia says

    “White people in the U.S. are historically privileged, in general.”

    This is not true. Your “in general” is an interesting qualifier.

    First of all most poor people, most working class and most lower-middle class people in the US are white. Isn’t that strange – what’s with that?

    Also, don’t you think it’s a bit hypocritical to use skin color as an insult? Say a recent, very poor eastern European immigrant is within earshot, and the speakers are privileged academics – still doesn’t strike you as inappropriate that he/she has to listen to comments about white-assed crackers, white trash, etc? What about working class Italians or Irish?

    And what about the hundreds of thousands of enslaved white servants from the colonization period?

    “Don’t feel bad; I do it to everybody.”

    I don’t feel bad I just think your an asshole.

  28. Learn Hexadecimal says

    I don’t feel bad I just think your an asshole.

    Oh, please tell me that was intentional.

  29. says

    First of all most poor people, most working class and most lower-middle class people in the US are white

    Most people in the US are white, dumbass. They must teach the special mathz on the west coast.

  30. says

    @Me/Reboulia:

    1) What’s a “jungle bunny”?

    2) I tried hard to understand the comment by “Me”. I even squinted at it hoping that would help. I think I managed to parse the following: “how is it fair for Dr. Isis and CPP, who have comfortable jobs, to indulge in racist jokes when construction workers competing with illegal immigrants cannot?” At least, I think that’s what’s being said.

    It’s fair because of the target. Dr. Isis and CPP sometimes make fun of academic crackers, because, let’s face it, academia is massively made up of very privileged white people. This is making fun of an established and privileged majority. Construction workers being racist towards Hispanics because they assume that all are illegal immigrants is then unacceptable because Hispanics are a disenfranchised minority.

    It is true that there are many poor white people in the U.S.A., but it is also true that the mean income of disenfranchised minorities, i.e., African- ($30,858) and Hispanic-Americans ($35,967) is quite a bit lower than the mean income of the privileged majority, i.e., European-Americans ($50,783) [Source: US Census Press Release]. This, right here, is an excellent example of white privilege in action.

    It is true that some white people, e.g., Scottish and Irish, were indentured servants in the Caribbean in the 1600s and 1700s. However, at no point were they bought and sold as African-Americans were in the U.S.A.. Indentured servitude is not the same thing as slavery, and if anyone tried to tell me as much in person I must admit I’d have a difficult time restraining myself from kicking them in the face. White people chose to come to the U.S.A., African-Americans did not. This is another example of white privilege as it has left a very deep legacy. It may also interest you to note that in the 1700s, only noblemen/women were considered to be white and considered the sun-tanned and soot-grimed working classes to be an entirely different race.

    If you take personal offense to someone calling a European-American a cracker, honky, gringo, accountant, WASP, etc., then I would suggest that you re-evaluate your relationship to your cultural heritage. I, for one, am comfortable, though humble, as a first-generation American cracker.

  31. If God is your co-pilot says

    “White people chose to come to the U.S.A., African-Americans did not.”

    not true. do your research. Look up the origin of the words kidnap and redneck for example. And slave while you’re at it.

    Your statistics are biased, as they are not separated by class. Just because most privileged people are white doesn’t mean most white people are privileged.

    You are spewing a lot of hackneyed factoids. Think for yourself. As one of your snarky friends here stated, Google is your friend.

    The jungle bunny reference was to CPP’s

    coming to your white-ass motherfucking suburbs and they’re GONNA GETCHA!!!111!! and they’re GONNA GETCHA CHILDREN TOO!111!!!11!!! OOGA BOOGA!!!11!! OOGA BOOGA!!11!!!!!111!!

    you people are slow. My point was this has nothing to do with academia.

    “If you take personal offense to someone calling a European-American a cracker, honky, gringo, accountant, WASP, etc., then I would suggest that you re-evaluate your relationship to your cultural heritage.”

    I’ve done so, and that’s what took me beyond the kind of stereotypical thinking you are exhibiting. And your suggestion is irritatingly patronizing.

    “Most people in the US are white, dumbass. They must teach the special mathz on the west coast.”

    Nice of you to reveal my location. Why don’t you give out my IP address, censorious control freak.

    The point is only a minority of whites are priveliged.

  32. says

    1) If the majority of European-Americans were not privileged, the mean income of European-Americans would reflect that. It doesn’t. Statistically speaking, if what you are saying is true, then population would far outweigh class effects and this would show up in aggregate statistical analysis. Also, if the U.S. Census Bureau is biased, perhaps you can point me to a more reputable source of information?

    2) European-Americans are privileged automatically simply by virtue of being born white. European-Americans don’t have the blessing of unnecessary police harassment. This is a privilege. Faceless “white” names are assumed more professional than faceless “black” names. Another privilege. European-American women are the idealized beauty standard. Another privilege. Cosmetics, shampoos, and clothing are designed for European-American skin tones. Another privilege. We could go on and on and on and on and on here, but to do so is pointless.

    3) You’re right. It isn’t patronizing, condescending, or arrogant of you to call me hackneyed, slow, or biased. But questioning your very obviously biased and angry interpretation of history, as you have clearly and amply demonstrated, and your relationship to your cultural heritage, is absolutely horrible of me. How could I be so callous and evil as to do such a thing?

    4) The scholarly origins of redneck does not bear out your claim. The origin of kidnap does. However, I maintain that, although some English children were brought to America by force, the societal stigma attached to being African-American, who were all brought here by force*, in the past and present far outweighs the negative social and economic consequences of crackerness.

    *Or are you going to tell me that they put on their own leg irons and eagerly submitted to being sold and whipped?

  33. this shit is still going on?! says

    um, a minority of EVERYONE is privileged. i kinda thought that went without saying. it just so happens the privileged minority is also disproportionately white. and by disproportionately, i mean that there are more privileged white people per white population than privileged nonwhite people per nonwhite population. in case you have a hard time dealing in anything other than absolutes.

  34. Anewleaf says

    Toaster,

    try googling “white slaves in colonial america”

    and yes “servants” were bought and sold on auction blocks, their masters were legally allowed to whip them and other cruel punishments, and they endured a horrible middle passage….well you can read about it on your own.

    whoever said I am becoming hostile was right. I will try not to continue, and will leave science blogs if it becomes a habit. I don’t want to become what I find so disturbing and repulsive. I’ll start by not replying to rude people.

    Also as far as your statistics, I think it’s unfair to compare hispanics to other groups, when they are the most recent major immigrant wave. I’m sure the statistic held true for the waves of other “white” immigrants for a while. Generally they were treated exactly the same as current immigrants. And as far as lower class workers (the people who are most impacted by waves of unskilled immigrants) feeling anxiety about the effect on their own livelihoods, I can certainly see their point of view from a sympathetic rather than judgmental standpoint. Sorry you can’t.

    Something like 20% of the people have 80% of the income and wealth locked up in the US, the rest are struggling for the remaining 20%, most of whom are white.

    The obsession with skin color repulses me. As it should, no?

    Can we move beyond hating and blaming the “other”?

  35. Anewleaf says

    Toaster,

    From Wikipedia (the mainstream version, but if you are truly interested check out some of the other search results, esp Hoffman for really damning evidence)Also did you look into the origin of ‘slave’? ‘white trash’?

    ….some historians claim that the term redneck originated in 17th century Virginia, because fair-skinned unfree labourers were sunburnt while tending plantation crops.

    Like slaves, servants could be bought and sold, could not marry without the permission of their owner, were subject to physical punishment, and saw their obligation to labor enforced by the courts. To ensure uninterrupted work by the female servants, the law lengthened the term of their indenture if they became pregnant. But unlike slaves, servants could look forward to a release from bondage. If they survived their period of labor, servants would receive a payment known as “freedom dues” and become free members of society….

    ….On the other hand, this ideal was not always a reality for indentured servants. Both male and female laborers could be subject to violence, occasionally even resulting in death. The large number of servants who ran away or committed suicide suggests that the conditions of life during the period of bondage may not have been so different for the servant and the slave.

    Indentured servitude was a common part of the landscape in England and Ireland during the 1600s. During the 1600s, many Irish were also kidnapped and taken to Barbados. In 1643, there were 37,200 whites in Barbados (86% of the population).[18] Many indentured servants were captured by the English during Cromwell’s expeditions to Ireland and Scotland, who were forcibly brought over between 1649 and 1655.

    Many white Irish slaves were taken to Montserrat during the slave trade: it is the only territory in the world, other than the Republic of Ireland, to have a public holiday for St Patrick Day…

    …Yellow fever, malaria and the diseases that Europeans had brought over contributed to the fact that during the 17th century between 33 to 50 percent of the indentured servants died before they were freed….

    Sounds like a real picnic, huh?

  36. says

    Why would I want to play with these hostile assholes who masquerade as enlightened liberals.

    I really fucking wish people would stop calling me a fucking liberal. I’m a fucking asshole. I’m downright fucking mean sometimes. But I am not a liberal

    More importantly, no one is even asking you to fucking play, like a whiny, obsessed fucking school child.

    As for us being hostile, John H was a fucking asshole and I am tired of fucking assholes like him getting away with it. I don’t put up with assholes perpetuating social stigmas that cause substantive harm to a great many people.

    Have you ever looked into the eyes of someone who really needs to talk about whats going on in their brain, but is flat out terrified that someone might find out. Have you ever seen the utter humiliation in those eyes? Have you ever seen someone who is absolutely ashamed of their own fucking brain?

    I see it all too often.

  37. CatholicSchoolgirl says

    Toaster Says:

    April 8, 2009 at 11:20 pm

    “1) If the majority of European-Americans were not privileged, the mean income of European-Americans would reflect that. It doesn’t. Statistically speaking, if what you are saying is true, then population would far outweigh class effects and this would show up in aggregate statistical analysis. ”

    the US Census press release you link to is referring to median income, not mean income. Interesting that you didn’t point out that the race that had the highest median income was NOT white, even though you were using these statistics as a justification for dumb cracker jokes:

    “Black households had the lowest median income in 2005 ($30,858) among race groups. Asian households had the highest median income ($61,094). The median income for non-Hispanic white households was $50,784. Median income for Hispanic households was $35,967.”

    but yes the MEDIAN values are somewhat damning. But, remember the shape of the graph: the line slopes up very, VERY gently for a long time, encompassing most of the people in each race, before it zooms up rapidly….the (probably vastly overlapping) low earners of all races are much more closely related, numerically, than the low earners and the higher earners are to each other. Class outweighs race here.

    If the ruling class (the people who invented american racism in 17th century Virginia) keep everyone focused on the differences between themselves, like skin color and average income, no one will notice that this small minority is making off with most of the loot. And the concept is still working here in America, just as the ruling classes of Virginia planned.

    All and all I would not cling to these data as a basis for your theories of racial inequalit…

    I hope this makes sense.

    Happy Easter Everyone!

    Isabel

    xxx

  38. says

    All and all I would not cling to these data as a basis for your theories of racial inequalit…

    It isn’t all about the fucking money, if that were it, this would be a very different conversation. It’s about very real disparities in the way people are treated, regardless of their economic status.

  39. Mr. says

    Wow, Comrade Physioprof, you must whip up the tastiest troll bait. You’re always bringing the greatest loons!

    Could be the main course for the next recipe war. troll bait braised in Guinness and Jameson.

  40. Isabel says

    “Mr. Says:

    April 12, 2009 at 1:31 pm

    Wow, Comrade Physioprof, you must whip up the tastiest troll bait. You’re always bringing the greatest loons!

    Could be the main course for the next recipe war. troll bait braised in Guinness and Jameson.”

    Comrade,

    Even though you and your regulars here like ths one can be real assholes, I must admit I think you are pretty awesome for having a sense of humor and a sense of perspective and for allowing dissent and not holding grudges or censoring comments or abusing your power (you can see commenter’s IP addresses but they can’t see yours) by revealing people’s location or other totally uncool things (especially the last)….in fact I have to say that I simply adore you!

    Toaster and DuWayne,

    You say I’m crazy, yet I am not the one who is basing an entire deep division between groups on the fact that one of them is hassled by the police more than the other, and the outdated ideal of beauty thing….your entire characterization of white privilege is a negative one, and the statistics you offer to bolster it only show whites as being far behind Asians?! Anyway, the history tidbit was just that, the tip of the iceberg. For a lively take on this history you might want to read Jim Goad’s Redneck Manifesto: How hicks, hillbillys and white trash became America’s scapegoats. But there is much scholarly lit- I am not making this shit up. And remember to use your common sense. Why did the original “privileged” white settlers of WV end of working in the coal mines instead of owning them? What color were the Oakies, the thousands of children who worked 16 hour days in the early New England factories, the girls who died in the triangle shirtwaist fire, all white….the truly privileged are the wealthy plain and simple. And they are not just taking more than their share – as I pointed out before they are making off with most of the loot. Yes, it’s a different conversation, but it’s one we almost never have, while we appear to be obsessed with the racial issue. Why isn’t looking for the root cause, as I try to do, helpful?

    Toaster,

    I’m curious to know, if you care to share your feelings, how you feel about the comments about your attractiveness over on Isis’ blog.

    Bye!

    Isabel

    xoxoxox

  41. Mr. says

    Hey! I made the hotlist without even trying!
    This has been a fun thread to read apart from the long bits.

  42. says

    Mr.,

    All you really have to do to get the loon to attach themselves to you is type something on CPP’s blog. It’s kind of amusing how obsessive they are.

    I’m also expecting to come back to claims that I am an evil censoring Nazi with no sense of humour. Please make is so, Isabel.

  43. says

    Isabel –

    I am saying your crazy, because you have repeatedly shown us you are. You’re a fucking nauseating shit on a multitude of levels, for a multitude of reasons.

    …I am not the one who is basing an entire deep division between groups on the fact that one of them is hassled by the police more than the other…your entire characterization of white privilege is a negative one, and the statistics you offer to bolster it only show whites as being far behind Asians?!

    You’re not fucking paying attention moron. White privilege is about breaking laws at the same fucking rates as brown skinned people, but not having those laws enforced at the same rates. Asians just don’t commit fucking crimes at the same fucking rates. If you’re really too fucking stupid to understand this, then you have no business trying to discuss this.

    Yes, it’s a different conversation, but it’s one we almost never have, while we appear to be obsessed with the racial issue.

    You’re right, it really is a different fucking discussion and one that I have quite regularly. Discussing race doesn’t detract from the issues of class, but as you say, it’s a different fucking discussion. And throwing in the history of beige people oppressing beige people is a red herring meant to pretend that they’re no such thing as white fucking privilege. The fact that the poor are all oppressed by the rich, doesn’t mean that white privilege is suddenly a moot fucking point.

    First, the vast majority of the rich – world fucking wide, are fucking beige skinned. Secondly, even beige skinned people who are poor, have significant privilege over brown skinned people who are poor.

  44. says

    …I am an evil censoring Nazi with no sense of humour.

    Well, I wasn’t going to say anything, but now that you mention it…:)

  45. Isabel says

    Mr. Says:

    April 12, 2009 at 5:19 pm

    Hey! I made the hotlist without even trying!
    This has been a fun thread to read apart from the long bits.

    Hey yourself Mister. Glad you enjoyed the thread. (What is the hot list btw?) Sorry about the obnoxious trolls like crybaby tattletale Nazi-wannabe Lost Marbles (who bans me from her blog for making the common sense suggestion to her friend Hexi that she edit her comments and try to stay on topic, and then stalks me, throwing stones while she hides behind CPPs coat-tails) and verbally abusive DuWayne, who is hung up on his skin color. Oh well it’s the internet – what can we do?

  46. Isabel says

    I forgot to add that DuWayne and LM are both liars. DuWayne makes wild claims he can’t back up, like most rich people world-wide are beige, and LM told everyone that I was trying to derail the conversation, when her friend Hexi was the real culprit, and I was trying to get things back on track. Hey LM why don’t you post it here since you are stalking me anyway?

  47. says

    Actually, you’re not banned. Blogspot doesn’t give me enough mod-ly powers to ban anyone. Hell, unless you get really repetitive and boring as a troll I won’t turn comment moderation back on. Although, I’d be really tempted to randomly moderate comments for shits and giggles as you blow up.

  48. says

    No one’s stalking you, you stupid bitch. We all tend to hang out here at CPPs, among other blogs and you keep making really fucking stupid comments on these threads, like accusing LM and I of being liars or LM stalking you. And yes, I just called you a stupid fucking bitch and for good reason. While I have been reasonable and only insulting your intelligence, you had to go and call me a fucking liar.

    While I don’t have a lot in this world bitch, my integrity is something that costs me nothing. And I go to great lengths to maintain it. Including admitting and apologizing when I am wrong, or admitting when someone makes a reasoned argument that changes my mind on something and giving them credit for having made it. I am occasionally mistaken (though not in this case) but I never knowingly fucking lie about anything, except when doing so will harm no one and being honest would cause harm.

    And if I had any time or inclination to do so, I could easily back up my claim about the wealthy. It’s not actually that hard to look at where the wealth is and in who’s hands. Been a few years since I paid much attention to the lists of the world’s wealthiest, but I doubt things have changed in the past ten years or so. And when last I looked, the list was pretty fucking pasty, with the exception of a few Arabs and petty dictators.

  49. ISimplyAdoreCPPP says

    “While I have been reasonable and only insulting your intelligence, you had to go and call me a fucking liar.”

    Well if there is one thing i take pride in DuWayne, it’s my intelligence okay? And I replied nicely to you, and you became verbally abusive again. Sorry. Them’s the rules. If you want to play on my thread here (see title) you will have to play nice.
    :-)

    And please try to stay focused. We all agree racism is bad. The point is all whites are not so vile that they deserve some exception to the rule about not using anyone’s skin color in vain, or something like that.

    As for you Missy, I will never comment again on the blog of anyone who has censored me. Your loss I guess since you seem to crave my attention.

    Actually since I am back on my favorite drugs again and Isis has threatened me with her uncool actions I may have to leave for good. It’s no fun being called names. I hope everyone has learned a lesson here!

  50. ISimplyAdoreCPP says

    Sorry about the extra P. Before you go ballistic Hexi (another one of my apparent admirers) why don’t you read over DuWayne’s posts, there were a few clunkers there.

  51. OINVU4URAQTCPP says

    BTW, CPP has assured me that I too am welcome here, so it is really rude and disrespectful of YOU GUYS (DuWayne, LM and Hexi) to be so hostile in your behavior toward me, just because I have different views and sensitivities and ethnic background.

    Thank you.

  52. says

    <blockquote?Actually since I am back on my favorite drugs again and Isis has threatened me with her uncool actions I may have to leave for good. It’s no fun being called names. I hope everyone has learned a lesson here!

    Oh noes!!! Isis is uncool? However will I sleep tonight?

    The answer? Naked and full of delicious food without giving this fuckwit a second thought. I suggest others do the same.

    The internet cracks me up.

  53. URunCool says

    Isis,

    Yes U R UNCOOL.

    like Marbles you ban me and then stalk me here…

    You hold the threat of exposure over my head, to the point that I am uncomfortable participating in the discussion on my own thread here at CPPs, and take advantage of my powerlessness by calling me a fucktwit knowing I can’t retaliate.

    Well, I hope we’ve all learned something here!

  54. says

    Your own thread? Dude, PP! I had no idea you had taken on a coblogger! Congrats dude!!! I thought if you were going to take on a coblogger it would be me, considering out cliqueiness, but I am happy for you just the same.

    I am so sorry to make you feel uncomfortable here on your blog, Isabel. I cannot begin to imagine how that must feel.

  55. URunCool says

    Hahaha you are jealous – I knew it! You small-minded people are all allike.

    Well, as long as you have raiseed the subject, I suppose CPP would be better off with me anyway!

  56. URunCool says

    Of course, you have the IP address to hold over my head…I suppose you win again, FINE you can co-blog with CPP, but it’s his loss. At least now I understand your MO. Oh well, I’m sure if our dear friend who I simply adore was not sleeping right now, he would be defending me. What can I say Isis, you win.

    :(

    Isabel

  57. says

    Toaster,

    I’m curious to know, if you care to share your feelings, how you feel about the comments about your attractiveness over on Isis’ blog.

    Bye!

    Isabel

    xoxoxox

    I’m delighted! In fact, my ego is so swollen I might just have to go change my underwear.

  58. Isabel says

    “I’m delighted! In fact, my ego is so swollen I might just have to go change my underwear.”

    Thanks for the explicit details Toaster.

    Now the question is, would you also feel that way if gay men were talking about you?

    Also would it have been okay for the gay men to comment on Sheril K’s appearance.

    Thanks, and hope you had a nice weekend.

  59. Learn Hexadecimal says

    I should probably feel bad for the fact that I only read CPP’s blog in search of fresh crops of lunacy.

    I should, but I don’t.

    Now would you stop calling Marbles a crybaby and a tattletale, Isabel?

    It’s not that you’re insulting a good friend of mine; it’s that you sound like a fucking eight-year-old and now I feel creepy for firing off so many profanity-laced tirades in your direction. C’mon, give a guy a break here. At least try to achieve a driving-age level of discourse.

  60. Isabel says

    HaHaHaHa Marbles comes on MY thread and practically begs me to call her a Nazi, and you are upset that I called her a tattletale crybaby instead? Would you rather I called her a Nazi? Anyway, Marbles and I were getting along fine until you started making obscene remarks and leaving 500 word comments about bioephemera on her blog, as anyone can read over there. Furthermore, the net is not about who is friends with who. We are all friends here.

    Anyway, Isis will be taking over (see above), so you can cry to her about it.

  61. Learn Hexadecimal says

    I was going to do a point-by-point response to every phrase in that staggering edifice of misinformation, but instead I’m just going to reiterate my main assertion, which is this:

    You’re a fucking child. A paranoid, delusional child.

    I hope like fuck you are a troll, because the thought of an actual genuine adult human being walking around with your tenuous grasp of reality frightens me.

  62. says

    Isabel of Many Names,

    A compliment is a compliment is a compliment. Here’s on for you: though I disagree mightily with what you say, I do admire your tenacity to keep coming back again and again and again and again and again and again with newer and better names each time to continue trying to blather about them. If nothing else, you’re making CPP pay for hosting extra comments.

    Sincerely,
    Toaster Sunshine
    Chief Wackaloon of West Cheesypuff

  63. WhamBamThankYouMam says

    “I hope like fuck you are a troll, because the thought of an actual genuine adult human being walking around with your tenuous grasp of reality frightens me.”

    as you (all of you) do me.

    “HA HA HA!!!! Taking over….HA HA HA.

    Learn, I fear that our friend Isabel is not a troll but has a real case of the crazies.”

    or maybe it was SUPPOSED to be funny. I sure found it pretty hilarious.

    “I disagree mightily with what you say”

    but you proved you knew nothing about the subject. But I understand. People are very attached to their beliefs, nothing new there. I also realize that despite all your talk about being an immigrant’s son, you are probably from an academic family, which doesn’t count and would sadly explain your lack of understanding and sympathy.

    However I think I have had some good results, which show unquestionably that liberals and academics are just as hateful and set in their beliefs as anyone is.
    But I’m worn out from all the abuse.

    I’m a lover, not a fighter.

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