Stormtrooping while female and brown


You would think this would be a dream come true for internet Nazis: a vidya game where you get to play as a Space Nazi in the Star Wars universe. I’m imagining, though, the shock they felt when watching this preview, and tough stormtrooper dressed all in black takes off their helmet, and big reveal…

The Stormtrooper Special Forces warrior is female! Aaaaaieeee! The dream is ruined!

Really, I’m not making this up. Some Nazi youth are horrified, and not just that the protagonist is female, but has brown skin.

It’s a SFF universe with magic powers thrown in, where spaceships have dogfights like WWI Sopwith Camels, and they’re concerned that including a woman is unrealistic.

Please. If you’re one of the people making that incredibly stupid argument that it isn’t canon, or that women all have teeny-tiny muscles, or that an alien race from long, long ago and far away would all be lightly pigmented, put away your video game controller, turn off your computer/console, and leave the basement. You have to learn about reality for a while.

Comments

  1. quotetheunquote says

    …. and, I would add, learn to spell “bare” correctly. (Or do they think that Imperial troopers have big furry clawed mitts sewn on to their wrists?)

  2. kestrel says

    @”the”: LOL – you beat me to it. Reminds me of reading a local paper describing a “grizzly” accident. And I had thought they were extinct in these parts of the world….

  3. cartomancer says

    Well, it does seem very counter-intuitive that Space Nazis would embrace gender and racial equality, given that a fundamental hallmark of fascist regimes throughout history has been their commitment to outdated gender and racial paradigms. Surely if you want the Empire to be an embodiment of fascistic human nastiness then it shouldn’t be an equal opportunities employer?

  4. Athywren - not the moon you're looking for says

    Am I supposed to believe that all these weaklings are capable of tearing scores of mooks with their bear hands?

    Erm…
    1) It’s the right to bear arms, not to bear hands. Jeeblez!
    2) I mean… I’m pretty sure they use blasters?
    3) Have we actually seen enough of the troopers to know they’re not muscular? Or are we just basing this on the apparent fact that none of them have the physique of Conan The Barbarian?

  5. Athywren - not the moon you're looking for says

    @cartomancer
    They’re human supremacists, but there’s really no reason to assume that space nazis would also be white or male supremacists. I actually think it’s reasonable for them to fall at least a little way short of omnibigotry – plenty of people will use the fact that they’re not bigoted on one issue as a way to deny that they are on another – a lack of homophobia to deny transphobia, for example – and I think it’s valuable to have media showing that it’s entirely possible to be a massive fuckhead without being the ultimate fuckhead. Of course, this is obviously just showing that I want to force my politics into other people’s vidya – because, as we all know, it all belongs entirely to them and nobody else – but what can ya do?

  6. Pierce R. Butler says

    Uh, I don’t follow SW stuff very carefully – but didn’t one of the prequelae imply that all the Imperial S-Troopers came from clones of Boba Fett (or, on further research from the same line of clones which included BF)?

  7. Athywren - not the moon you're looking for says

    @Pierce R. Butler
    The clone armies from the clone wars were clones (hence the name) but that doesn’t mean every trooper ever seen was a clone. Conscription is still a thing, as is volunteering

  8. says

    Damn these Idiots. Not that is very important, but these idiots are even wrong about the source material.

    Even the very first three Books that were released as the part of the (by now kinda defunct) Extended Universe had a ex empirical special Obs operative who was female. She was even called the Hand of the Emperor.
    After the death of the Emperor, a different woman was the leader of the entire Empire for a while.
    Both were active with high ranks in the imperial military around the time this trailer is placed.
    And the current TV show SW: Rebels has a mid to high ranking woman in command of a garrison. So woman have positions on all levels in the imperial military.

    The Rebels/New Republik military always consists of mixed gender/race/species. (not with perfect representation)
    The Empire/Remains where most times described as fascist, speciest and patriarchal. So human woman had a harder time but it was not impossible for them to join the military or archive a high rank in it. Not so much different than the real world today (HUGE HINT).

    Which is not surprising, considering that this is fiction written in our time and as such reflects the problems of our time. Subconsciously in the good guys, consciously in the bad guys.

  9. Saganite, a haunter of demons says

    That looks friggin’ awesome. Too bad it’s going to be a multiplayer game, because I would’ve liked to play this as a story-driven singleplayer game and…
    Oh, the Neo-Nazis… yeah, they are stupid whiny losers. Hell, a bunch of Jedi heroes were women and not even just of different human skin pigmentations, but different species even.
    As for a Stormtrooper specifically, well: a) the Empire was all pro-human and anti-alien, not specifically White Supremacist. b) It’s not like those special forces were ever shown in the main movies. So who could say whether women could join up or not. c) I’m not an EU fan, but I’m aware of lots of female Imperial officers, so while I dunno about Stormtroopers, it’s not like the Empire banned women from active service.

  10. monad says

    @7 Pierce:
    Clone troopers in the prequels were all clones of one guy. Storm troopers are not, and episode VII plainly showed they include different genders and races. The extended universe explains that the clones didn’t live very long, and got replaced with more standard recruits, but in any case we know they aren’t all identical (and even if they were, note none of the complaints are that it’s the wrong person, but that it’s the wrong kind of person, so that’s not their issue).

  11. cartomancer says

    Athywren, #6

    Not making them racist or misogynistic seems very weird to me – it flies in the face of the historical inspiration they’re clearly drawing from and jars with the understanding of real-world human ethics that the audience will inevitably bring to it. “Racially aware” and “gender-equal” are not ideals that sit right with “stormtrooper” “Imperialist” or “supremacist” of any stripe, much less when the stormtroopers and Empire in question draw their look from a consciously archaising aesthetic that seeks to evoke the Third Reich and shades of the Roman Empire. “Racially aware” and “gender-equal” scream “progressive” and “modern” to modern audiences. I do not think anyone would say that that’s what the Empire in Star Wars is all about.

    Perhaps one could concieve of a society with such aesthetic confusion and complexity to it, but this is Star Wars we’re talking about – a simple, morally uncomplicated Space Opera that paints with very broad strokes.

    It has been noted that a lot of modern cinematic science fiction tends to deal in evoking the evils of a fascist tyranny but to shy away from the actualities of racial and gender persecution that have accompanied such societies in the real world. The Hunger Games, for instance, has cheerfully race- and gender-blind fascists persecuting their victims solely along arbitrary class lines. I don’t think it was the intention with this sort of thing to deliberately sanitise and erase the racialised and gendered aspects of fascist persecution, but it kind of does do that.

  12. Saganite, a haunter of demons says

    @#7 and #8
    Plus, the main trilogy takes place, what, twenty years later than all that Clone War stuff? The Empire would need to refill its ranks. And during the first movie (i. e. episode 4), we see and hear Stormtroopers talking to each other about mundane shit, like what type of jet engine they like. I’m pretty sure most of the clones have been replaced by regular people at that point in time.

    @#10
    I just realized that these Neo-Nazis are sort of making me defend the fascist Empire. That’s how messed up all this is.

  13. says

    @Pierce R. Butler
    The clone army was a overwhelmingly male army. But the Emperor hat only one reason to procure this army: To have a army programmable enough that it would kill all Jedi without questioning.
    After that was done, and the last clone died (who had a short life spawn), the imperial army consists only on voluntary and forced conscripts. There weren’t any enemies left that would justify such a huge investment.

    The original SW movie showed that. At the very start, Luke Skywalker wanted to escape Tatooine by joining the imperial military academy. So just as in real life is the military seen as a way to escape rural and poor living conditions.

  14. Athywren - not the moon you're looking for says

    @cartomancer, 12
    Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think the empire should be shown to be progressive and modern, but I do think it’s worth making the point that you can be what we would currently consider to be progressive and modern, and still be a bigoted shit.
    It’s also worth keeping in mind that it’s a game trailer, and lots of people who aren’t white and male like to see themselves represented in games, and even some of those who are like to have other character options available to them, even if they enjoy playing as the bad guys.

  15. cartomancer says

    Athywren, #15

    Oh, I agree that female and minority representation in video game protagonists is important. I just think it’s a really strange message to give – “look how progressive our cartoon Nazis are on race and gender!”

    I suppose it could give the message that not being bigoted in one area doesn’t automatically mean you’re not bigoted in others. That might very well be the darker-skinned female stormtrooper’s main character arc in this game. I don’t know. I’m not betting on it, given what Star Wars has traditionally been like though. On the other hand, I think that that particular message would be conveyed a lot better if racism and sexism were plainly apparent in the society she hails from. The problem there is thinking that being progressive in one area makes you progressive in all, but if racism and sexism weren”t actually issues in this world then not being racist and sexist wouldn’t be markers of being progressive that one could get all self-congratulatory over.

  16. jerthebarbarian says

    What are these guys talking about? The Force Awakens had a female Stormtrooper commander – Captain Phasma. She’s the leader of the forces on Starkiller base directly under General Hux (yes I know that makes no sense as far as military rank goes – it was a long time ago in a galaxy far away, remember?) The force awakens also had non-white stormtroopers – Finn (one of the freaking main characters) is a black man who was a former Stormtrooper.

    Let’s not even get into the fact that the original clone troopers were all clones of Jango Fett (played by an actor of Maori descent).

    The Empire is chock full of human supremacists – they’re space Nazis who hate non-humans, not space Nazis who hate non-white humans. These guys sound like “fake geek guys” to me – they should go study the canon of Star Wars a bit more deeply and stay off the Internet until they can speak about it without embarrassing themselves.

  17. microraptor says

    Regarding the clone troopers’ lifespans: they actually do have normal human lifespans. They tended not to live very long because they were given minimal medical care and after the Clone Wars were over the Emperor had them “decommissioned.” But Rex, who was a major character in the CGI Clone Wars animated series is still alive in Star Wars Rebels, the spin-off show that as of the end of the third season is just a year before the events of A New Hope and has also been confirmed as being the bearded Rebel commando who showed up on Endor in Return of the Jedi.

    And I don’t have any interest in this video game, but it’s upsetting Nazis and that makes me happy.

  18. thirdmill says

    So they never heard of Joan of Arc, or Queen Christiana of Sweden, or the Amazons?

  19. konservenknilch says

    I’m more of a Star Trek guy, and I find it kinda hilarious that some (ahem) people are completely losing their shit that the main character in Discovery will be a woman (gasp!) of color (faint!) who may be a lesbian (shock!), thus forcing the SJW agenda down our throats. And I just want to say: It’s Star Trek you fuckwits, that was the whole point from day one.

    Sigh…

  20. says

    #19 @microraptor:
    On the other hand: the book series Republic Commando (which was the series to expand on the day to day life of clone soldiers) made very clear that clone troopers have a shortened life spawn.
    And Rex shows this. He is an old man in SW:Rebels. But that takes place at what, 10 years after the clone wars? Definitely not more than 20 for sure (that would be when the first movie takes part).
    Rex in SW:Rebels does, at least to me, not look like Rex from SW:Clone Wars + <20 years. Considering that Rex would be less 20 years old in SW:Clone Wars, with an biological age of around 20-25.
    Also he is one of the last clones around. So my hypothesis is that he beat the average and is at the extrem end of the life time of a clone trooper.

    Btw, the fact that SW III and SW IV are at most 20 years apart leads to a lot of continuity errors. Which makes a) such discussions a lot of fun and b) these Nazis even more stupid.

  21. F.O. says

    Obligatory image http://content.iwastesomuchtime.com/September-07-2011-16-23-44-bearjt05w239s142605400397.jpeg
    Bear (eh!) in mind tho, that the posters might not be native speakers. Bigotry speaks many languages, after all.

    Given the reaction I was expecting a very black, short haired and possibly overweight protagonist, and was ready to praise EA for the bold step taken.
    Instead she’s conventionally attractive and almost white.
    My gut reaction was “she’s as inoffensive as it gets”.

    But the flak has come, so praise is indeed necessary.
    Good on EA, an otherwise evil company gets several points in my book for this.
    Please notice tho, that DICE comes from that nest of liberal, foaming feminazi country known as Sweden, they might have made choices that EA wouldn’t have made.

  22. microraptor says

    Turi1337:

    Rebels season one started 5 years before ANH. Season 2 had a one year time skip after the end of season one, and season three had a similar time skip. Rex is something like 25 in it (off the top of my head I can’t remember how long the Clone Wars lasted), but biologically he was “born” as an adult, something around 25-30 so he should be the equivalent of in his 50s in Rebels.

  23. rpjohnston says

    The last one has a point, though probably not in the way they intended…having played Dragon Age and Mass Effect and paid attention to other such games, I’ve long been incensed that the guy characters look like they train for elite combat and the gal characters look like they do yoga regularly. “Manly man’s beefcake” vs “Slim, trim and fit”. The male gaze is strong.

  24. F.O. says

    @rpjohnston #25 good point!
    I guess game companies are willing to take only so much risk.
    But I wonder if they lost customers more than they gained if they had female protagonists that totally badass.

    On another note, I’ve been playing Warframe, and given my location most of my clanmates are from south-east asia; despite this and the availability of many skin tones, most of them pick avatars that are pale white.
    I have yet to see a dark-skinned avatar besides mine.

  25. DLC says

    As for the special snowflakes who can’t stand a female protagonist — the Farce is strong in those ones. Allow me to introduce you to General Leia Organa, a tough, no-nonsense woman who was also good looking and had a romantic side as well. In other words, a whole person, and not a cardboard cutout.
    Oh, and EA Games subsidiary Maxxis added a big patch to The Sims 4, which allows one to generate transgender sims, or even just sims who like to wear different clothes without any social constructs getting in the way. Not bad for an outfit owned by EA, who does not have the best employee relations reputation.

  26. Ysanne says

    @Turi1337 #9,

    After the death of the Emperor, a different woman was the leader of the entire Empire for a while.
    Both were active with high ranks in the imperial military around the time this trailer is placed.
    Maybe I’m biased (see handle) but it’d be great to see them. Then again, maybe not seeing them mis-cast isn’t too bad either.

    The Empire/Remains where most times described as fascist, speciest and patriarchal. So human woman had a harder time but it was not impossible for them to join the military or archive a high rank in it. Not so much different than the real world today (HUGE HINT).
    Which is not surprising, considering that this is fiction written in our time and as such reflects the problems of our time. Subconsciously in the good guys, consciously in the bad guys.

    Thanks for bringing up the killed-off Expanded Universe. As disjointed and sometimes contradictory and continuity-error riddled as it was, they got some of the basics right — starting with the Empire being not just species-ist (as in, human supremacists), but also including a good deal of sexism. While some of that got watered down by stories about the umpteenth exceptional female character, I think it was still much more fitting than the happy diversity that the Empire suddenly seems to have embraced since the reboot.
    Yes, I know they’re not Star Trek, but even Star Wars isn’t forbidden from reflecting the the real kinds of injustice their audience grapples with. Ironically, the sexism is alive and kicking in the real world of Star Wars merchandise — there’s still a serious lack of toys and other stuff featuring the showcased female characters of both the old and new movies.

  27. microraptor says

    rpjohnston @25:

    I’d say they zigzag on that. Ash in Mass Effect 3 was definitely cringe-worthy but Aveline in Dragon Age 2 and Cassandra in Inquisition were both fairly muscular if overly endowed in the chest area, and the female Qunari PC looked like someone who could change a car tire without using a jack. Bioware definitely knows how to make muscular women, what they really need to do is start toning down the boobage.

  28. chrislawson says

    Actually, I’d say Cassandra from DA:Inquisition was not all that muscular given her role was a veteran hard-ass double-handed sword wielder. She should have had shoulders like a pre-industrial stevedore. But at least she wasn’t prettied up. I’d also say that the DA games didn’t generally have super-muscular male warriors. Alistair and Cullen may be strong, but they still look nowhere near as bulked up as, say, 80s action heroes, and warriors who really are muscular like Duncan and Blackwall are more hulking than beefcakesque. The biggest, strongest characters are Iron Bull, who isn’t human, and Shale the golem who is female (although she’s more… um… rockcake? than beefcake).

    Having said that, the DA universe gets no kudos for Morrigan. Great character as written, but her artwork came straight out of Frazetta’s sketch pad. It’s bad enough that she wears a filmy top that barely covers her breasts — they had to make it even more ridiculous by having her live in a near-frozen wilderness!

  29. tkreacher says

    cartomancer,

    I’m not sure I’m grasping your point. The U.S. is very racist, increasingly fascist, already run by oligarchy, and lead by a narcissistic, power-man con-man who has surrounded himself with literal and brazen white supremacists – and we have minorities and women serving in our armed forces.

    Tell me, how is a Mexican female warrior serving a corrupt, racist, authoritarian regime somehow out of line with reality when we are living in such a reality?

  30. cartomancer says

    tkreacher, #32

    While it is true that the US is far more racist, sexist and bigoted than any of us would like, it’s not a fascist dictatorship. Not yet anyway. It’s not the Third Reich. It’s not the Roman Empire. Not by a long stretch. It certainly does not style itself as such.

    Also, it has only admitted women to serve in combat roles for, what, a couple of decades at the most? This commitment to gender and racial equality in the US is very recent indeed. These are hallmarks of how progressive and modern the US can be, not hallmarks of how regressive and backward it can be. They are modern, progressive ideals, and recognised as such by modern audiences.

    The issue is not “out of line with reality”, it’s “out of line with the aesthetics, historical resonances and ideas you are trying to evoke”. The Empire in Star Wars is supposed to evoke fascism, oppression, cruelty and bigotry. It is supposed to evoke the authoritarian tyranny of a bygone age – that’s why it’s called “The Empire” in the shadow of Rome (having emerged from a fallen “Republic”), why it has “Stormtroopers” in the shadow of Nazi Germany. The Empire is not styled after the USA in the 21st century – it is styled after a blend of Romans and Nazis. Gender equality and racial equality are not ideas which fit very well with that sort of styling – in fact they undermine one of the main reasons to style your evil Empire after Nazis in the first place.

    It would be the equivalent of trying to evoke the religious bigotry and aristocratic advantage-taking of the Crusades by styling a society after the Knights Templar and the medieval church, but having this fictional society be open, secular, tolerant and accepting of religious diversity. They’re not ideas that fit well together.

  31. cartomancer says

    Admittedly, there is something of a tension implicit in combining ancient Romans and 20th century Nazis for your stylings when it comes to racial diversity. The Nazis were dead against it, the Romans had no great problem with it. Plenty of legionaries came from Africa, the Middle East and Northern Europe. Most of them did by the end of the first century I suspect. Though there was still some considerable bigotry about foreign customs and culture – Romans tended to accept people of all ethnicities if they acted Roman, and looked down on those who wouldn’t. So the Roman side of things perhaps does ameliorate how jarring it seems to have ethnic diversity among the stormtroopers. Even though “stormtroopers” just doesn’t sit right with it.

    Neither society had any time for gender equality in the military, however. While there were female Gladiators in the Roman Empire, and female support staff in the Wehrmacht, neither society put female combat troops on the battlefield.

  32. John Morales says

    Admittedly, there is something of a tension implicit in combining ancient Romans and 20th century Nazis for your stylings when it comes to racial diversity. The Nazis were dead against it, the Romans had no great problem with it.

    In an American context, perhaps. Generally? No.

    For example, Italian Fascism saw itself as the heir and successor to the Roman Empire and deliberately used its symbolism (e.g. the very name!).

    (But of course fascist Italy had nothing like the racial tradition of the USA)

  33. cartomancer says

    John Morales, #36

    I was rather careful to say combining Romans and “Nazis” rather than Romans and the more general “Fascists” there. Though it’s not like Mussolini or Franco or any of the other fascist dictators of the 20th century were hugely committed to racial diversity. The view of the Roman Empire constructed in Mussolini’s Italy pretty much overlooked the important contributions of non-Italians to the Roman project, and the Abyssinians had quite a bit to say about Italian Fascist attitudes towards non-Italian, non-European peoples.

    Mind you, pretty much every society that has emerged in what was the Roman Empire has used the stylings of Rome in some fashion. From the Holy Roman Empire to the Tzars of Russia to the American Capitol and Senate. You can’t really have an Empire in European fiction without evoking Rome in some way.

  34. says

    Trigger warning: “Well, actually…”:

    Well, actually, I don’t think Inferno Squad are Stormtroopers. They seem like Naval Special Forces. They’re badguy old-canon Rogue Squadron.

    You may now resume arguing about real life and Nazis and pissbabies and such. Thank you for your time.

  35. John Morales says

    cartomancer, thanks for the response. Yes.

    Seems to me like ‘Nazi’ evokes racial superiority as a central concept, whereas ‘Fascist’ evokes an authoritarian statist.

    (Perhaps a good reason not to employ them as synonymous)

    PS

    From the Holy Roman Empire to the Tzars of Russia to the American Capitol and Senate.

    I do appreciate what you did there! :)

  36. tbtabby says

    I don’t know why everyone is so shocked that EA would take the right side on this issue. They obviously just decided they could sell more units if they were more inclusive. They’re not the mustache-twirling baddies gamers like to portray them as. They’re like the Ferengi: ruthless in their pursuit of capital gain, but will never commit atrocities such as the Holocaust or Trail of Tears, because there’s not enough profit in them to be worthwhile. They’ll also never send a feminist death threats or try to hunt down her or her family for criticizing them, unlike some common men I could name.

    Allow me to paraphrase Dr. Cruces in “Pyramids” for a second:

    EA does not harass. EA does not doc-drop. EA will never, you may be very certain, never “jokingly” threaten to murder people or tell them to kill themselves for being critical of them, nor encourage others to do so. They have no truck with crimes of passion or hatred or pointless gain. They do not do it for a delight in causing gamers misery, or to feed some secret inner need, or for petty advantage, or for some cause or belief; I tell you, ladies and gentlemen, that all these reasons are in the highest degree suspect. Look into the face of a man who will kill you for a belief and your nostrils will snuff up the scent of abomination. Hear a speech declaring a war for ethics in games journalism and, I assure you, your ears should catch the clink of evil’s scales and the dragging of its monstrous tail over the purity of the language.

    No, EA does it for the money.

    And because they above all must know the value of a successful video game, they do it for a great deal of money.

    There can be few cleaner motives, so shorn of all pretense.

    EA is not evil. EA sure as hell isn’t good, but it isn’t evil either.

  37. F.O. says

    @tbtabby #40
    I would argue that any entity that is exclusively moved and motivated by money and no other consideration is very much evil.
    But yeah, I’m very happy that there’s money in catering to diversity.

  38. Gorogh, Lounging Peacromancer says

    Just my very personal view, mostly re cartomancer: The SW Empire for me never had a connotation of sexism. Obviously, its protagonists were predominantly male, but explicit sexist discrimination is, if I recall correctly, totally absent. Even species-level discrimination is somewhat implicit, but more tangible. What the Empire does stand for for me is an oppressive regime which mercilessly hunts down dissenters. I would assume that Palpatine himself is not racist per se, just a Sith powermonger.

    That said, yes, the lore may certainly be out there to point to your all-in discriminatory ideology. The movies at least work well enough without it, and as someone mentioned (I think), I feel speciism alone is sufficient grounds to find the empire despicable. Whether or not they include different human races or genders does not change that, so they might as well.

  39. Jeremy Shaffer says

    Saganite @ 10:

    That looks friggin’ awesome. Too bad it’s going to be a multiplayer game, because I would’ve liked to play this as a story-driven singleplayer game and…

    While there will be a multi-player component, and it’ll be a large part of the game itself, there is a single-player campaign this time around, and the very character in question is the one you play for the most part. If I understand correctly, there will be parts where you play briefly as other characters, but it’ll be mostly her over a period of time starting with Endor and leading into the formation of the First Order.

    To general: As for the point of women and non-whites in the GFFA serving in Palpatine’s Empire, you have to remember that from their point of view humans were humans, so skin color and gender wasn’t much of a factor even within a repressive and often bigoted regime. Simply put, humanity in the GFFA has simply evolved enough, probably though exposure to countless alien species over several millennia, that such things aren’t much of a consideration any longer.

    That said, within the Imperial ranks and culture was heavy anti-alien sentiment. It’s thought by some viewpoint characters in more recent books to be left over sentiments from the Clone Wars- much as there’s one against droids- which started out as against only the ones pushing the Separatist movement and the CIS later on, and was just expanded out to include all of them. There is also a great deal of classism, which was present in the Republic as well, between the Core World inhabitants against those hailing from the Outer Rim and Wild Space. And last but not least, even though the first couple of LGBTQ characters introduced in the GFFA were an Imperial Moff and a former Imperial interrogation officer, there is a very strong pro-heterosexual attitude within the Empire- the war machine requires more meat for the grinder, after all.

    So, yeah there isn’t as much bigotry within the Empire based on skin color and gender, but there are plenty of other areas available for them to exercise their evil.

  40. Jeremy Shaffer says

    Oh, and the second quoted comment in the main article is correct: “Mexican chick” isn’t canon, because there’s no Mexico in Star Wars. So, she’s not “Mexican”; she’s from Vardos. You’d think a fan would know that, but I guess once someone gets high on their own fumes, they’ll forget things that are actually useful in comparison: like the geography of a fantasy galaxy.

    Also, I do have to say, as a long time and major Star Wars fan, I am quite happy with the amount of aggravation and pant-shitting it’s been causing whiny, self-centered jackasses lately.

  41. iiandyiiii says

    I always assumed the apparent lack of racial and gender discrimination in the Empire (or at least the First Order, since I don’t recall seeing any POC or women in the Empire of the original trilogy) and other sci-fi tyrannical groups was to demonstrate that those philosophies are so incredibly stupid that even the Empire (or other evil group) doesn’t ascribe to them.

  42. microraptor says

    iiandyiiii @45:

    I liked the way Shadowrun put it: the white supremacists and Japanese supremacists and Hutu supremacists all banded together so that they could kill the orks and elves and trolls, with the intention of warring it out amongst themselves to see which type of human would win after they succeeded in killing everybody else.

  43. Alex the Pretty Good says

    IMO, the idea of the New Order being anti-woman as well as anti-alien was one of the earlier Extended Universe theories (raised in the earliest West End sourcebooks) to explain why there are no obviously female Imperial officers; which, when you get practical about it, was just a matter of unfortunate (and quite possibly prejudiced) casting.

    But throughout the original trilogy, there actually aren’t that many Imperial officers that are clearly visible so you can see their face and other secondary sexual traits. The conference room in the Death Star has about the most of them in one place. Other than that we see the occasional Star Destroyer captain and a few of their personnel, but most of them are so much in the background, they could just as well be female.
    As for the many armored/helmeted troopers and pilots … there’s nothing to indicate they couldn’t have been female, nor is there any indication that they were intended to be all male. (Sure, they were probably all portrayed by male actors, but if we go by “who was the actor” then Greedo was female).
    Throughout the whole Original Trilogy, we only see glimpses of the crew of the Death Stars; the Devestator (Vader’s Star Destroyer) and Death Squadron (Vader’s “hunt for Skywalker” detachment). This out of 25,000 Star Destroyers and uncounted smaller ships that operated throughout the Empire.
    So the most one could conclude from that is that the military group around Vader and Palpatine didn’t have any high-placed female officers.

    So yeah, I’m actually quite happy that the new canon did away with the whole anti-woman sentiment of the New Order and downplayed the anti-alien sentiment (and mostly explains that by the prominence of many non-human species amongst the Seperatist Alliance).

    Talking about the (now Legends) EU, the idea that women could climb up to the highest ranks of the Empire was already established in the earliest years of the EU with the Marvel comics that had female Imperials such as Captain Plikk who commanded a group of 4 Star Destroyers; or Special Agent Shira Brie.
    So even if those MRA-holes want to reminisce about the “good old times” of a SW without female Imperials … that never existed.

    And finally the complaint about being “[…] capable of tearing [through] scores of mooks with their [bare] hands.” Eh … this is a SciFi story where most of the characters have long-range weapons that don’t exactly require any kind of bare hands >facepalm<.
    You'd have to choose to play a female wookiee (which would be bad-ass) to do most of your mook-dispatching with bear hands.

  44. ck, the Irate Lump says

    Hmm.. I think I’d rather replay Horizon Zero Dawn instead. I never did get all that invested into Star Wars.

  45. microraptor says

    HZD had a good moral: billionaire businessmen are shitheads who will destroy the world if we don’t watch them.

  46. ck, the Irate Lump says

    microraptor wrote:

    HZD had a good moral: billionaire businessmen are shitheads who will destroy the world if we don’t watch them.

    And another: Billionaire businessmen somehow always find ways of further screwing up the world long after they’ve left it.

Leave a Reply