After the United States government declared that the North Dakota pipeline should be halted and basically rebuked the process that allowed it to be built, the state of North Dakota has lashed out and issued an arrest warrant for Amy Goodman. Like a good journalist, she’s always annoying the authorities, and now some officious dimbulb in power in that very conservative state has decided, after the fabulous press they got from siccing attack dogs on Indian children, that harassing the journalist who caught their viciousness on video is the right person to punish.
Why can’t Amy Goodman be more like Matt Lauer or Wolf Blitzer, and suck up to the powers-that-be? Maybe it’s because she’s one of the few journalists still doing their goddamn job.
North Dakota also issued arrest warrants for Jill Stein (vandalism: she spray-painted a bulldozer) and Cody Charles Hall (for being an organizer of the protest).
You go right ahead, North Dakota, and make yourself look even worse.
By the way, the last time Amy Goodman got arrested here in Minnesota, it did not go well for the authoritarian thugs.
Amy Goodman caught their viciousness on video and oh by the way in the meantime, the oil company was desecrating graveyards and churches. Ancient ones at that. Why aren’t the people responsible for these acts being arrested?
It’s OK, no one needs to tell me, I know why. They should be, and as far as I am concerned, the sooner the better.
In the meantime ND has effectively put a great big spotlight on their crimes.
@kestrel #1, even worse, that officious turd, by issuing the warrants for a protest leader and reporter has blown his or her nose on the very first amendment.
That’ll play out well in a federal court!
President Trump will fix things. I still remember his senate testimony. “They don’t look like Indians to me!” Dunno if the Lakota/Nakota/etc. will look like Indians to him. But I can hear him say, “You guys lost. You’re losers. I like people who win (like the US cavalry).”
Messing with the press is never good strategy. They have cameras and microphones and the good ones won’t shut up.
Isn’t this called the Barbra Streisand Effect . I
I would not call North Dakota a petty, vengeful state so much as an amazingly stupid one. If that broadcast had not already gone viral, this is really going to raise the ratings.
re 3:
[derail]
I recall Trump defending Native American heritage by calling Warren out as a faker, claiming to be Native American to get a college scholarship under the quota for Native Americans.
Never mind how conflated Trump was blustering. Warren was talking about how people were telling her her heritage, that she should claim it for scholarship funds. I interpret her saying she refused the funding because her percentage of heritage was miniscule (but more than zero).
still, aside from that attempt at defending Warren, Trump was saying “she doesn’t look like an Indian”, not “they”. The photos I’ve seen of the rally seems to have the protesters all dresses as stereotypical Indians, so I’m sure Trump will agree. He only sees stereotypes so dressed as stereotypes matches his expectations exactly.
OTOH, maybe I’m only seeing the stereotypes and overlooking the protesters in more conventional clothes, my bad. Still, they are in the pictures so Trump can’t say, “they don;t look like Indians”.
Apropos of nothing much, Ms Goodman used to have a weekly column in the Grauniad (On US democracy).
Re: Marcus Ranum @ #4…
The traditional phrasing is something like…Never pick a fight with a man who buys ink by the barrel.
jrkrideau @ 5:
North Dakotan here, out at the camps. It’s petty vengeance. People here don’t like Indians, and they like Indian lovers even less. This is a state where wasichu (white people) refer to Indians as Prairie ni**ers. Don’t underestimate the hate.
A Masked Avenger @ 3:
You mean like at the Battle at the Greasy Grass? Cavalry didn’t win that day.
slithey tove@6, Difference incident. The was in 1993 in a House hearing about gambling casinos on Indian reservations.
That Jill Stein?
They got away with it. None of them faced any consequences other than the traditional “we didn’t do it and we swear we’ll never do it again” settlement with token monetary payment. If “arrested, beaten, and charged with a crime but charges are eventually dropped with an empty apology and no one is held accountable” counts as a success against authoritarianism, we’re in some real deep shit here.
Yes, ‘I approve this message’: Jill Stein faces charges for North Dakota protest graffiti: “An arrest warrant has been issued for the Green party candidate, who is accused of vandalism for spray-painting bulldozer during protest against a pipeline. […] Stein was charged Wednesday in Morton County with misdemeanor counts of criminal trespassing and criminal mischief. The same charges have been filed against her running mate, Ajamu Baraka.”
That is just disgusting.
I have not been in ND, but I was in Idaho. I did not meet with any explicit hate. But I noticed one thing that was apparent whenever Indians were mentioned in media – it was in a way as not to draw attention to the fact that they were subjected to genocide. I remember a memorial to one Indian Chief that stated “He was a friend of the white people.” before saying very little with regard to what he actually has done for his own people. And it let me wonder at that time why that sentence was written there. Unfortunately this was before digital photography and sixteen years ago so I forgot the details and have nothing to refresh memory. In one tiny giftshop “museum” to a particular tribe that has been almost eradicated there and whose probably last member was employed at said giftshop, there was a very interesting book about north american indian tribes. I could not afford it, so I just skimmed it through. It seemed to gloss over what hapened to Indians, as if their eradication was something that “just happened” and not one of greates state sanctioned and organised genocides in recorded history. The number of nations that were destroyed was just mindblowing, even if someone were trying hard to downplay the number of individual people killed.
This is one of the things US Government should apologize for and work hard to make amends, if US wants to be taken as worlds moral leader.
Anyways, your words and recent events are a sad reminder that thnings are not getting much better. I do not understand the hate and I do not have to deal with it personally, but it makes me sad nevertheless.
Aren’t Lakota the only people who captured US flag in battle?
Yeah, penny-ante damages won’t stop the fascist thugs. It’s just going to be a blip in someone else’s budget or tax bill.
There needs to be MAJOR PUNITIVE damages, as in tens or hundreds of millions of dollars. With a large fraction taken right out of the LEO pensions, and large enough that any state/city on the receiving end will be looking at bankruptcy.
Or, we could shoot them all, if that’s what they prefer. Their choice!
The obvious problem with that is the innocent residents will be harmed.
Charly, I worked in Idaho at the Sawtooth Fish Hatchery for a season, and I’m sad to say that I experienced outright hostility toward the Shoshone/Bannock Tribe. When they started to come up from Fort Hood in July to fish for Chinook, people I had known since March suddenly turned into people I’d never met. A few of the Indian children were watching us take fish out of the weir, and the IDFG official there (the two of us really didn’t get along), was openly talking smack about Indian fishing in front of them. It took all I had not to say something. One of the adults who was there got so angry that I watched him leave with his back quivering. I apologized to him later. It made me no end of angry that there were people representing me like that! I won’t say there aren’t problems with Indian fishing (we watched the 100-foot marker where the people were supposed to stay move right up against the weir), but honestly, so what? It’s nothing to justify all this unfriendliness.
@Marcus Ranum #4
Or maybe you never hear of the times when it is…
@Snarki, child of Loki #14
Several policemen have been shot recently.
While I’m not too sympathetic towards US policemen, suggestions or “jokes” about violence are the first step to enable real violence.
Violence is not acceptable.
Sorry to sound like a broken record, but vote, vote, vote, vote, and vote. Canvass. Do phone banks. Cut turf sheets. Vote Democrat all the way down to sheriff and county assessor, but definitely for your state senate and house. Vote early, don’t let a blizzard or sick kid or double shift prevent your voice. When people vote, Democrats win. Period. So what if South Dakota is a red state. Pick off a few counties, a district here, a ward there. Then at the very least The Koch Brothers will have to spread their dough a bit more thinly. Organize and vote. As if your children’s lives depended upon it.
To this German, it looks like the Land of the Free is very keen on locking people up.
I’m working on an afternoon post now, the signal is piss poor, so it’s taking a lot of time. We were updated at the new legal strategies, and they are numerous. The Yanktonai are also going to sue, and we’ll be suing on the state as well as federal level, for well over 500 million. We are far from done on this fight. I’m updating Affinity as often as I can, and when I can get the wireless to work. The person who owns the attack dogs used is a Ndakotan, and a sex offender. Also, the nat guard has now been put on duty to exclusively protect Jackkk Dalrymple, the governor, who is so far into oil’s pocket he’s taken up residence in their gut. The Guard at Ft. Carson, Colorado has been put on Martial Law training. U.S. Marshals wanted to come into camp, but were denied. The local cops want nothing to do with us.
If you can make it out to the camp, get out here! It’s great.
@17
violence is unacceptable, I am not sure how you want to define that or when you want to apply that idea but historically violence seems to be always present if not overt at the least as a distinct threat.. Do we just pick a date and apply that idea forward from there as a judgement against those who feel the need to resort to it?
Are we going to demand that all protestors be willing to passively accept the violence directed toward them and be willing to lay down their lives for their cause? Should we then not be expected to be willing to join them on the line ourselves and sacrifice our own lives with them?
as for the comment that generated the response it was a little shocking but I do not think it was a threat but a recognition of the reality of this all to real human condition. When people are put upon and mistreated for long enough and will not be heard or even acknowledged as being worthy of being listened to or included at all to the discussion of their own fate some will not be able to just passively bow their heads and take the violence forced upon them by others.
It may not be right and may cause more trouble than solution but violence will happen
uncle frogy
Oh no.
Someone will have to go to Farm & Fleet (Do they have those in ND?) and pick up a can of acetone and some shop rags. If solvents don’t work, they may even be forced to purchase official Caterpillar yellow spray paint to cover up the graffiti.
That will cost… tens of dollars. Someone draw and quarter that dirty hippie.
They don’t even need to do that. It looks like she painted the bulldozer blade: all they have to do is scrape it through a few old Indian graves and the paint will be abraded right off.
Caine, how long are the tribes planning to keep the camps running? I really, really wanted to take a couple of weeks off work and drive up there from Wyoming to show support, but I had to have foot surgery, and I’m not supposed to put any weight on it for the next 2 months.
I read in the local paper this week that a whole lot of oil has been found here in Texas, out near the Davis Mountains and Big Bend National Park. The article reported glowingly that thanks to modern fracking techniques, millions of gallons of oil and natural gas can now be extracted.
There is an observatory there in the Davis mountains, and the people who study there are already complaining. I certainly hope that someone will step up to preserve the National Park and the natural beauty out there, but this is Texas, so I assume that the oil companies will be allowed to whatever they wish.
asclepias @ 24:
We’re here for the long term, all through winter if needed. Don’t really know exactly, but no one is going anywhere at the moment. We have a number of people here who aren’t supposed to be putting weight on one foot or the other! Quite a lot of people with a foot cast on. Lot of people in wheelchairs, too, so if you can get a chair, come on out, there’s always someone willing to help out. After this week, we won’t be able to come out on the weekends, but we’ll be here during the week, every week.
The weather is getting serious cold at night, so be sure of warm clothing and camping accommodation. (We’re sleeping in our van, and it still gets damn cold around 2, 3 am.) As Faith Spotted Eagle said tonight, this is no longer a camp, this is not a camp. It’s a community, 7,000 strong, and community is the only word for it. If you come, you won’t lack for help, and you won’t need anything.
It is. From Ye Pffft! of All Knowledge:
And another article (which gives slightly, but not significantly, different figures) observes: “According to a 2014 Human Rights Watch report, ‘tough-on-crime’ laws adopted since the 1980s, have filled U.S. prisons with mostly nonviolent offenders.” There are some graphs and charts showing a marked increase starting in the 1980s.
That second article goes on to note: “According to a 2016 analysis of federal data by the U.S. Education Department, state and local spending on incarceration has grown three times as much as spending on public education since 1980.”
A third article breaks the rate down state-by-state. Comparing per capita numbers, and somewhat to my surprise, Texas is not number 1 (it’s about 6th, Louisiana is the clear number 1). North Dakota is, in comparison, quite respectable, being only about 44th (of a list of 51 (DC is included)).
slithey tove, #6
Like Dawkins defends women when brown Muslim men are being sexist.
slithey tove:
He was NOT defending Indians, ffs. Is calling a woman Pocahontas at every opportunity defending us? Please, don’t speak until you learn, because this is embarrassing.
Indeed. As the link I included in @10 points out, he not only has a history of Indianphobia, his 1993
comments / testimonyattack are a model-in-miniature of of his current attack on all of Reality.re 29:
correct.
I was trying to imply Drumph speaks from both ends of his mouth to insult whoever is closest, whoever.
He was using the slur Poca… to mock Warren, while sideburning Native Americans. We all know Drumph only defends himself, everyone else can fry in flames of fire and disgust.
sorry.
There’s a fairly good article in the Grauniad, Standing Rock protests: this is only the beginning.
Contrary to the claims in some of the readers’s comments — which aren’t too toxic at the moment — the Grauniad has had other articles on the protest, camp, et al.; I counted about six by eyeball, including this photo-essay.
President Obama should pull an Eisenhower and nationalize the North Dakota National Guard.
To:
And other quotes in the thread.
I speak as someone whose direct ancestors are Cherokee. My grandparents on one side could not marry because of interracial marriage laws.
We would be one of the first to downplay and even ridicule Christians and Muslims who complain about being offended, about being blasphemed, etc. Grave desecration is no different. It is not a crime, because the dead people are dead. It is a crime no different than blasphemy, which is a victimless crime, not a crime at all.
Again, my grandparents could not legally marry because of interracial marriage laws. That’s a real concern. The situation in many native American reservations today is deplorable. The racism faced by native Americans today is also deplorable. Using attack dogs on people – that’s deplorable. Blasphemy and desecration? That’s not deplorable. Please focus on the living and not on the dead, because the dead do not matter, because they’re dead.
I would desecrate a million graves and holy sites in order to save one person, even if that person was Trump or Hitler, and I worry about anyone who would not do the same. In other words, do whatever you want with my body after I’m dead, because I will be dead, and I deserve absolutely no regard after I’m dead. I am greatly concerned that everyone in this thread is seemingly raising issues of blasphemy and desecration to absurd levels of importance.
At best, one can argue that it’s destruction of priceless works of art, but that would probably require the notion that there are regular tours ala a museum or any other thing of priceless art, which is a position that I believe many would not adopt. A piece of art that is never seen is not a piece of art at all, and it has no value, exactly to the extent that laws against blasphemy have no value.
PS:
To be cute, why aren’t they being arrested? It may be that such acts of mere property destruction are not an arrestable offense. Would you want someone who did grafitti to be arrested? I wouldn’t. A citation / ticket is enough (unless they don’t show up for their first court date).
PPS:
I fear that many here are disingenuously hiding behind bullshit “but it’s desecration” arguments when really this is an environmental action, and my heritage and the real issues affecting my people are being hijacked dishonestly for another purpose, in a way that takes resources away from real issues that are hurting real people that are alive today. That annoys me.
Yes, I’m one baby step away from a Dear Muslima, but the difference I will take is that desecration isn’t a crime at all, no more than any other form of blasphemy, and so the analogy doesn’t work.
EL @ 34:
I’d like to see you here, at Standing Rock, telling people that. Come on out, and try to sell your Generokee bullshit. You’re wrong, as you usually are, and you don’t have the slightest idea of what is going on here, or what we are fighting for – there’s a lot of prayer going on here, though, and you wouldn’t understand that, either. It doesn’t matter if you don’t have a frame of reference for it, or don’t understand it because it’s not like any Western prayer or belief. You wouldn’t be welcome here because you don’t understand what it is to be human, what it is to be a people who want peace, who want to be what they have always been, caretakers of this mother earth, of life itself. You don’t understand that there are people, places, and things that through generations, become special to people, become sacred. You don’t understand, because sacred is a lousy word to describe, but it’s worse than that – you don’t care.
That’s correct. What’s the usual pithy phrase, “nothing fails like prayer” ?
Also correct. I’m generally not into Gaia/Earth worship. I generally find such beliefs to be quite odious, as they put the importance of a non-thinking concept, Earth, above the importance of actual human beings. Just like you’re doing with ancient burial sites. It’s disgusting traditionalism and conservatism.
Oh, I understand the sacred. I simply piss on it. Loosely, “sacred” is a word that means a idea, concept, or thing, that should be given respect, and that should not be questioned. The entire fiber of my being is fundamentally opposed to the whole concept of “sacred”. The sacred is an affront to all of my principles as a humanist, feminist, and decent and caring human being.
If I didn’t care about the general discussion, I wouldn’t be here posting.
PS:
I note that you said I don’t understand, but you didn’t try to explain yourself. In particular, you said that this “prayer” you’re talking about is different than Western, i.e. Christian?, prayer, but you didn’t bother to explain yourself. Of course, I don’t know how you could explain a ridiculous and incoherent concept like prayer. It’d be like trying to give a working definition to the word “spiritual”, or trying to deduce how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
The Earth doesn’t deserve respect, or pity, or care. Humans do. The Earth is a tool, and it should be used as a tool, for the well-being of humans, and other conscious creatures. Your earth-worship places an inaminate thing, the Earth, to an equal or higher position of value and consideration compared to humans, and that is extremely morally offensive and outrageous.
PPS:
Classy, classy stuff. /s
A living and vibrant earth is not a tool, or a plaything to be exploited by humans for humans. One does not need to worship anything to understand that oil spills and water becomes polluted, the land becomes desolate and unfit for life of any sort. Conservation is not some silly belief system, it’s an easily observed fact that humans can preserve and protect the environment to benefit all the worlds creatures and not just themselves.
EL, you and your philosophy may say one thing. Reality says another. Apparently those with some empathy will take care of remains of their predecessors. You lack empathy, a fatal flaw of those who rely only on “reasoning” for their conclusions. You dismiss the Native Americans with empathy toward their predecessors. Rethink your position, as it stinks.
EnlightnementLIberal: So, you don’t think ancient sites are really worth anything or worth protecting, and that destroying them should not result in someone being arrested. OK. I guess that’s your opinion. Most people disagree with you and that’s why there are laws protecting ancient sites and artifacts. Penalties include fines and/or jail time. And people *do* get arrested for vandalizing churches; at least, if they are Christian churches, in the US.
You say people are more important than the earth, that the earth is just a tool. I’d like to point out that if we don’t preserve the earth, we won’t have any where to live and will all die. There has to be a balance, or we’ll lose the very thing you think is the most important: people.
I will add this: people are NOT the most important thing. All life is sacred, and it is every bit as important as the lives of humans. The two-leggeds are but one species on our mother earth, and we all need one another, and there should be respect for all life. Our most sacred medicines are sun, air, water, earth. If you do not understand oneness, the sanctity of all life, including that of our mother earth, you understand nothing.
As Arvol Looking Horse has said, humans are the only species destroying their own life, that of our planet. Man has already gone too far, we must care for our mother earth now as much as we are able.
And, “people are paramount, people are most important”, that is not an Indian way of thinking at all, no matter the nation. That is colonial thinking, and it’s colonial thinking and colonial actions which have brought us to this point.
It is colonialism, and colonial thinking which says destruction is all, it’s fine, who the fuck cares if this is important to others, especially indigenous peoples. That is not the way of life, heart, spirit, or thought of indigenous people anywhere. That’s absolute bullshit, it’s thinking with no heart, no spirit, no care, no love, no balance, no peace. Anyone who thinks that way is part of the destruction.
I have long been uncomfortable with EnlightenmentLiberal.
#36 makes it very clear why the discomfort.
I have moved on the loathing and contempt.
.
EL, bless your heart and have a nice day.
Enlightenment Liberal:
Earth is a planet. I don’t think we can make tools out of planets.
It doesn’t really look like there’s substantive disagreement about whether humans and other “conscious creatures”* have priority. Are you cooking up most of this argument for yourself? I think we’d see more than a strange word here or there, if somebody was actually trying to make the opposing case, since it would be a huge case with an enormous number of implications that these reasonable people are not even attempting to draw out. So we can charitably assume they’re not doing that. So they must be doing something else. So maybe you should relax.
Perhaps these kinds of statements are (often, usually?) colorful ways of describing a responsibility which people have (living people, obviously) to protect their history and be mindful of it, ways of framing events like this to show how the US has for centuries continually destroyed Native American lives and stolen from them at every opportunity. The graves presumably didn’t get there by fluctuating out of the void — they were dug by a group of people, and those who survived think they still have some say on the matter of what happens to places like that.
It may be contemporary theft and destruction in many respects, but there may also be an important sense in which these things are records of many such crimes in the past. Without things like this, you cannot see how the terrible story unfolds over time, as every strip of land, every drop of water, every breath of unpolluted air, every right and every bit of respect and decency is taken from people. It’s not all eroding away at a geological timescale, and some things I’m sure are still quite personal to some — but however it happens and in whatever manner it’s expressed, don’t tell me that people making sense of their lives and forming a connection to their past and their present environment has no moral importance. It may be less than other extremely critical things, but at the same time that could still put it a very long way from zero.
Is the moral theory you’re presenting here able to get a grip on the idea that we shouldn’t be destroying records like that? These are, after all, not living breathing human beings we’re talking about — they’re graves or property (artistic or otherwise**) or some other inanimate thing, as you said — but they are nevertheless an important part of what living people ought to have, in order to understand the lives they have and make good choices about them. If you agree with me that things like this do matter, then exactly what is your argument about?
*Note the unfortunate word “creatures.” I could pick away at this and accuse you of being a creationist, but that would be a pointless criticism to make right now.
**Maybe you should ask yourself why certain European archaeological sites are dubbed “priceless” and excite you into using all sorts of grandiose epithets, while others do not. It apparently has something to do with attracting lots of paying tourists, but that seems a bit impertinent at the moment. Anyway, there might be several better explanations for that, besides the claim that one is more valuable than the other.
Are there any photos of cairns or remains that are posted anywhere? I’ve read about the claims but have yet to see any evidence of such. I remember claims about sacred oaks being made during a highway project in Minneapolis in the late 90s but it turned out to be a “just so” story – in other words, hearsay.
EnlightenmentLiberal, #34
Just because the reason given by people who are hurt or offended is rooted in religion doesn’t mean the hurt or offense isn’t legitimate. Burning a copy of the Quran in America that I purchased is different from burning a copy of the Quran I stole from a mosque.
I’m against destroying a sacred Christian or Muslim site too. It doesn’t matter that innocent and oppressed people are attached to the site because they consider it sacred. You’re destroying a place that has strong emotional and historic importance to many innocent people. They’re destroying other peoples’ relatives’ graves. They can destroy their own grandma’s grave all they want. Are you also saying I can take a bulldozer to my nearest cemetery and no harm, no foul?
To put it another way, while you’re treating an oppressed group like shit (looting, stealing, killing), you’re also destroying their sacred places. You don’t see how that’s a big problem? I don’t see how any decent empathetic person would have an issue with that.
Enlightenment Liberal, #34
This is an act being carried out by a powerful government as part of the suppression of an already marginalized group of human beings.
Fuck off for likening it to a teenager having fun with some paint.
starfleetdude #44
The Internet remembers the Minneapolis sacred oaks thing differently.
EnlightenmentLiberal, #36
It’s not about you and your the fibers of your being, you Vulcan asshat.
LOL! That is the outrage here?
“Did you hear America bombed a Muslim shrine? No one was hurt but people are really sad about losing a holy site.”
“Oh, that’s terri… wait, did you say they consider it holy? What a crock of shit!”
starfleetdude
Funny, that. Did the Dakota Access Pipeline Company Deliberately Destroy Sacred Sioux Burial Sites? Oh, look:
… And then by Saturday that proof you so ardently desire was purposely removed by the pipeline company.
You can read more about it here, via ICTMN. Or at Caine’s blog Affinity.
rq, you’d think then if they went to all the work of doing a formal archaeological survey that there would be a few pics to show.
chigau, there’s no doubt that the internet remembers a lot. The veracity of it on the other hand can leave something to be desired. The evidence for an ad hoc rationalization of the four oaks as a sacred site is more overwhelming than any archaeological evidence supporting same.
starfleetdude
There probably are. They don’t have to be on the internet. You can probably find a way to access the report.
starfleetdude
There wasn’t much archaeological evidence
http://www.friendsofcoldwater.org/hwy55/hwy55.html
http://www.minnesotahistory.net/wptest/?s=highway+55&x=18&y=9
The identifying site number should be
21HE followed by a number
I have to run now, I’ll try to look for it at work.
I’m involved in a project where we are trying to get a dam repaired, and in order to even START, we first had to have an archaeological survey done to see if there were any sites that would be impacted by the work, all of which we had to pay for. We were assured that if there *had* been a site, we would not have been allowed to move forward. (We also had to do an environmental impact study, endangered species study, etc.) So to read that this oil company deliberately destroyed archaeological sites, after they were identified by an expert, is simply astounding to me. I can’t believe there have been no consequences because we would have been stopped in our tracks if they’d found something like that at our construction site. Of course we are a very small community and don’t have the money an oil company has; maybe that’s the difference?
I read somewhere (can’t remember where now, sorry) that if it was on private land that made it OK, but ALL of our site is on private land and we were still informed that anything found would halt construction. So in my experience it makes no difference who owns the land, you’re not allowed to destroy ancient graveyards and churches. Or at least, WE aren’t allowed to.
There wasn’t much, actually.
Hiawatha Avenue Reconstruction Update: Fact Sheet and Timeline – November, 1998
Here’s some Q&A from the above:
To Saad and kestrel
Yes, but
I’m pretty well convinced that this is not about protecting sacred sites, and/or that’s of secondary importance to many in the protest movement. Seemingly, many of the protestors are partially disingenuous in their use of “sacred sites” as a political weapon to use to achieve their real goals: a certain kind of environmental action, and particularly to shut down the pipeline entirely. If it really was a matter of some identified and known sacred sites, based on what I’ve read, the oil pipeline company would be happy to construct the pipeline around these sites. I’d love to know how big of an area off reservation land that the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe are claiming as “(potential) sacred sites”, but that’s a surprisingly difficult thing to find.
If it really was a matter of the oil company not willing to divert around some claimed sacred sites off reservation land like they claim they have already done in other contexts, or if it was really a matter about reasonable requests for more time to identify such sacred sites, then I would be much more sympathic to the protestors. However, again, it seems pretty clear to me that this argument about sacred sites is almost entirely hollow and disingenous, and it’s being used dishonestly.
…
To consciousness razor
Yes. But in this case, it definitely looks like they’re pushing some native American supremacity racist bullshit, and spiritualism woo, and ancestor worship, all of which I am going to have to strongly object to.
Also please see my other responses in this post.
…
To Tethys
The Earth is not living. It is not alive. It fails to meet the basic criteria of the common biological definitions of “life”. At best, what you said is a metaphor, but the metaphor confuses the facts of the matter.
The Earth is a plaything to be used by humans and other creatures on the planet. It should be exploited fully, but in a responsible way for the benefit of all. We should oil spills and polluted water not because it’s bad for the planet – whatever that means. We should avoid oil spills and polluted water because it’s bad for humans and other living creatures on the planet, present and future. One does not need Gaia worship in order to recognize this obvious fact. In other words, one does not need to pretend that we’re not exploiting “the Earth” in order to avoid this obvious conclusion. It’s a very bad exploitation, aka use, of the Earth to poison it, because we and other living creatures, present and future, have to live here. One can make these rational conclusions without spiritualism woo.
…
To Caine
I’m not a cultural relativist nor moral relativist. You can try to use pejorative words like that, and it won’t sway me. Hell, this is borderline racist unto itself. It reminds me a lot of what mother does – frequently say that the white man is inherently prone to destruction, rape, exploitation, etc. Just imagine what you sound like if you replace “Indian way of thinking / colonial thinking” with the terms “white and civilized way of thinking / barbarian way of thinking”. We’re all human, and there should be the just the humanist way of thinking.
Not only do I object to this extreme valuing of the sacred, I also object to this racist notion that certain racial groups get to have their own special and better ways of thinking. That’s incredibly racist and offensive. I am a humanist and an empiricist, but I don’t say that humanism and empiricism are the European way of thinking. They’re the proper human ways of thinking. No one is better at it. No one is at-birth more predisposed to it. No one can claim it as belonging only to their racial or ethnic group.
I object to tribalism in all of its forms, including more or less all forms of patriotism. This includes your way of thinking, and this includes anyone who stands for the American national anthem.
Lol no. I’ll kill a billion ants if it saves one dog or human without a second thought, and I have some very serious moral concerns about anyone else who would even hesitate.
Where does this absurd reasoning end? Are you going to value the invasive and harmful bacteria in your body right now that is trying to kill you, and would kill you if not for your immune system killing them first? What about the polio and HIV viruses, and E. Coli bacteria?
…
To Nerd
The benefit of reason is that we can sometimes recognize that our base impulses, such as empathy, are misfiring, and we can try to correct them. This is one such case.
I do have empathy, and I’m willing to accept some amount of discretion for those who engage in ancestor worship. However, this notion about caring for the body of our ancestors is an arbitrary cultural tradition, entirely devoid of value, and in large part based on mythical notions of afterlife and spirits. These practices would probably not exist, or be far less practiced, if not for the partially-accidental facts of our history, and “because it’s tradition” is one of the worst possible arguments that one can make.
So, I’ll make some discretions, because I have empathy, but I will also point out the absurdity and costs of caring so much about the bodies of dead people.
Well, those bodies of dead people do belong to the Indians, to do with as they please, and the pipeline company is committing violence to that particular property of the Indians, so I think the Indians are quite justified in their protest. After all, ancestor worship aside, their property is being destroyed; they’re just trying to protect their own.
+++
slithey tove @6
I take it you haven’t seen too many photos of the rally, then.
EL
You’re so much way off, it’s hard to know how much.
What’s your fucking evidence to accuse the Protectors of lying?
First of all it has never been hidden that they also very much care about the water that sustains actual life.
Secondly, if the nice oil company would have been happy to build around the sacred sites, then why didn’t they do so once they knew where those sites were located but decided to destroy those sites first?
Yes
Fuck no. It is of value because it is of value for those people (and it’s not harming anybody, figure that out!). You cannot claim that humans are most important and then turn around and say the things humans find great value in are worthless and can be disregarded.
Spoken like the good little colonialist that you are.
rq
my thoughts exactly.
EnlightenmentLiberal,
I don’t understand. They’re telling you those are their sacred sites. Therefore they are.
Also, I love that you think you’re a humanist and a “caring human being”.
You’re not. You’re one of those atheists.
Your “if it really was a matter of some identified and known sacred sites” is blatantly racist. Fuck you.
EL:
What in the hell are you reading, the dipshit oil lover news? Originally, the pipeline was set to go north of Bismarck, but some white people got upset about the their water being endangered, that’s when the decision was made to endanger the water supply of Standing Rock.
As for the graves and sacred sites, DA did not know exactly where they were until the late injunction was filed by Standing Rock, after the tribal archaeologist and historian detailed them, and that detail was in the court papers. It was mere hours after that filing that DA went out, on a long holiday weekend, and bulldozed every single site detailed on the court papers.
Are you proud of being a complete asshole based on absolute ignorance? You should be ashamed. However, all evidence points to you having no shame, as well as no empathy, and very little faculty for thought. You certainly can’t discern facts from your own hateful bigotry.
Oil companies and the U.S. government have a very long, shameful history of stealing Indian land over and over, and destroying it for their own purposes, and it always has the effect of making whatever nation getting hit in the neck this time poorer and worse off.
If all it takes to is a baseball cap, hoody and blue jeans, count me in.
slithey tove @ 6:
Please, please, please: shut. the. fuck. up. I am embarrassed to share a species with you. Someone brought up this piece of idiocy at Affinity, and I commented:
You are being an ignorant, bigoted asswipe, and until you can actually learn something, and be less of a disrespectful know nothing, please, just be quiet.
Chigau @ 63:
You’d fit right in at the camps.
I don’t think it’s been mentioned here that they’re also concerned about oil spilling into their water supply … which happens to be the Missouri fucking River. A whole lot of people living downstream on the Missouri, nowhere near that particular parcel of land, should be concerned too, and they should be glad the protesters are doing something about it. If anybody said the river was magical, maybe EL would flip out, but I have no idea how it matters.
Oops, didn’t refresh. Caine mentioned it at #62.
CR @ 66:
Hell yes. People have been saying this from day one, maps spread all over the place – all the lands and people the Missouri River waters, all the tributaries which branch off from it, they go a long, long way. Millions of people will be affected when that pipeline leaks, and it will leak, there’s no question about that. This is the thing – I call people like EL Puddle People. These are people who view water as a convenient puddle, all enclosed, and somehow (magically?) non-stagnant. Water which is not water, it doesn’t flow, it doesn’t move, it doesn’t join up with all the waters around our earth. Puddle People are idiots.
On the spill consquences, according to the latest Grauniad article, Dakota Access Pipeline plan still on despite protests across the US and world, “The US army corp of engineers, which has jurisdiction over pipelines that cross major waterways, approved the Dakota Access plan despite warnings from the Environmental Protection Agency that leaking oil could pollute the rivers.”
I also recall reading somewhere the sort of oil the pipeline would carry is very difficult to clean-up with existing technology from water (e.g., rivers and lakes). However, I cannot now find a reference…
Caine, et al.: The Granuiad is seeking firsthand accounts, Are you protesting the Dakota Access Pipeline? Share your photos and stories.
Blf:
Yes, it’s tar sands. This oil sinks, and we do not have the technology to clean it up. This has already proved to be particularly disastrous in Canada, and this shit destroys land like acid. You wouldn’t want to be drinking it.
I’m sorry to burden you with correcting my mistakes. My excuse is, I like to make mistakes and be corrected, so I learn which of my thoughts are mistakes and need to be eliminated. apologies.
sincerely, not sarc.
Caine, the pipeline is for transporting so-called “light sweet crude” from the Bakken, not tar sands oil from Alberta.
The Route
Oil from tar sands is more corrosive than regular crude oil. The article was about the Keystone pipeline, but also applies here.
A sampling:
Are they even building this to the Alaskan pipeline standards? Probably not, so they need to up their standards.
Ack, Starfleetdude changed the argument, except for the pipeline being up to Alaskan pipeline standards (double walled, etc.).
starfleet asshole:
You can keep on drinking the oil kool-aid, but don’t tell me what’s happening on my land, where I live. Maybe you should shut up for once, and try to learn something. First something: you’re a stone fucking idiot if you think oil companies tell the truth.
Also, spills have already happened here, and the oil companies downplay them, saying it’s not bad, not bad at all, but they lie. We do have some scientists here who insist on telling the truth, and it’s bad. Very, very bad.
Further thinking says if the pipeline is there, it will be used to carry tar sand crude. It needs significant engineering to prevent spills. Which I doubt is in the plans. Triple layer as a start.
Aaaaaaand, there’s fucking pipeline 6 miles from my house, lying next to the torn open earth. Don’t tell me about all these fucking standards, because that’s a lie, too. It’s cheapshit pipe, and it will leak, just as it’s already leaking in other parts of the state. Ay, all you dumbfucks, please, shut up.
Didn’t anyone teach you that you don’t need to spill your mouth at every opportunity, that you should listen and learn before you prove yourself an ass and a fool?
Go start drinking oil now, you believe everything oil says – no more water. See how long you last on that, and you can eat your paper money for food, because you don’t understand one thing.
Nerd @ 77:
Yes, it will. We already know this. The engineering required to prevent that shit leaking is much, much more than any oil company here is willing to put in. They might say they’ve done all this, but they haven’t, I know. I’ve seen that pipe, up close and personal. They lie.
I cannot find any obviously unbiased source on the precise contents of the pipe. Ye Pffft! of All Knowledge says it will transport “hydrofracked crude oil” from the Bakken Formation in North Dakota. According to the first link, “In January 2014 […] the US Department of Transportation’s PHMSA […] issued a safety alert, that Bakken crude should be handled carefully, because it may be more flammable than other grades.”
That first link also claims there is a severe discrepancy between the required reserve (or accident) fund, and the actual costs of an accident (on the order of c.250,000 USD (required) vs 1 billion USD(estimated)). It also points out “The Bakken pipeline is projected to be capable of carrying 1 million gallons (3800 m³) of crude an hour; any leak that is not stopped within the hour could quickly result in hundreds of millions of dollars in property and irrevocable environmental damage.”
Mother Jones points out (my added emboldening):
There are assorted other claims and allegations in the various links, including possible political corruption.
Blf:
They’ve already pulled that shit here. ACoE said they consulted with the tribal leaders, they didn’t. They said they’d do a proper survey with tribal archaeologists and historians. They didn’t. They said they’d listen to EPA, but they didn’t. The EPA has said, over and over that what they are doing here will have an astronomical impact, but they have downplayed that and said there would be minimal impact, because that is all they ever say. They do not let facts interfere with rubber stamping whatever oil wants to do.
:Snort: There’s no possible about it, not here in the Dakotas. The governor of Ndakota, Jackkk Dalrymple, called Dimplewinkle by some, is as corrupt as can be in this regard. He’s fully invested in oil, he has all his money tied up in it, he hates Indians, he’s so far up oil’s ass, he resides in their gut, eating their shit like it was honey. He does not care in the least what happens, which is why there is no oversight committee here, and no ethics committee. Jackkk declared himself the oversight committee. There’s also no limits on indemnification here, so oil can do what they want, including killing workers and walking free. Sdakota is no better. They’re busy trying to steal the Black Hills. Again. They want to strip it, gut it, sell it. Wasichu greed.
Jackkk lives in Bismarck, so he wasn’t happy about the pipeline going north of Bismarck. He’s just fine with poisoning the Missouri River though, because he’s an idiot, and he doesn’t care if Indians die, he’d be happy about that.
I don’t doubt it at all. Engineering controls are expensive. Many executives think they are simply for show, instead of for the safety of the workers, the neighborhood, and the environment.
That Kalamazoo River spill mentioned above was about 10 miles upstream from Battle Creek, where I grew up, and my mother still lives. Fortunately, Battle Creek gets it water from a well, not the Kalamazoo River which flows through the city. The aquifer is between two limestone layers, which makes it hard water, but the top layer is a barrier to the pollution.
Here in Chiwaukee we get our water from Lake Michigan. It has its own form of pollution, like bilge water from ships.
A few days ago, 58 DAPL workers left the motel they were housed in, and walked out, permanently, because they hadn’t been paid.
DA has been told to come out and remove their equipment, they will be doing that today. Native traders and Native trading companies in NY have also pulled down Energy Transfers stock, costing them over one billion. It’s not enough yet, but we’re working on it. The documentation of the 1933 declaration of bankruptcy on the part of the United States also means that treason against treaties has been committed for a very long time, so that’s being worked on by the legal teams also, who are bringing a number of actions.
It appears that the protests are now out of control, which perhaps isn’t surprising.
Pipeline protests shift along pipeline route – Bismarck Tribune
In regards to the “Are the sacred sites ACTUALLY SACRED????” bullshit, what a crock of shit.
If the US is going to legally acknowledge religions that were founded in the last two centuries (and is constitutionally barred from being the arbiter of which religions are legitimate or not), what justification do you have to draw the line in the sand and say “this place isn’t religiously significant to native americans because it’s less than two-hundred years old”
I should mention that the Kalamazoo River flows into Lake Michigan. A lot of cities near the Lake, like Chicago and Milwaukee, get their water from it.
@84
Hardly?
Physically obstructing the thing you’re protesting is a pretty stock-standard form of protest, and given that cops very liberally apply bullshit charges like “obstruction of justice”, especially during protests, I’m not going to go and jump on their protest as being “out of control” just yet.
@87
By out-of-control, I’m presuming the protesters going 60 miles away to another construction site are not being told to go there, but are going there on their own. So it’s a free-for-all.
starfleetdude
They’re out of control?
THEY’RE OUT OF CONTROL??
THEY’RE OUT OF CONTROL???
Who the fuck is supposed to control them and how is chaining themselves to the pipeline “out of control” and not just standard activist behaviour?
Out of control? Are they armed to the teeth like the Bungling Bundy Militia, and are they threatening law enforcement officers, or simply making them work for their salaries?
The Bundy Bungling Militia was out of control. Those unarmed people chaining themselves to equipment are in control.
No, it is a natural progression. There is no central control. Why are you lying to yourself, and then lying to us? What is YOUR AGENDA?
slithey tove @ 71:
That is a piss poor excuse. You spill shit at every opportunity. Learn to be quiet and listen. At the very least, *think* before you speak. Ask yourself: am I going to say something stupid or unthinking? Am I going to say something filled with ignorance? Am I going to spill my bias and bigotry all over people?
@89
It’s not so much standard activist behavior as it is standard anarchist behavior, where there is no direction, just unconnected actions. That’s when it usually starts getting less about a specific goal and more about action for the sake of action, which can be counterproductive in terms of the original goal, which in this case was to protect claimed sacred sites and water.
@91
A “natural progression” of people who are worked up and then go out and start losing sympathy for the original reasons for the protest is not an agenda I’d advise.
The protests are not out of control in the least. They are progressing, and people are doing the same things they have been doing from the start. Energy Transfers is not giving up, they are trying to push through, even when that means working illegally, which they have kept doing. People aren’t doing anything different, and it is highly organized out at the camp community, and all along the protest route.
starfleet asshole:
Good thing you aren’t here, then. Your agenda would be “drink oil, everyone, it’s great!”
Unless you can produce a court or federal order that stopped pipeline construction elsewhere along the route, it’s not illegal.
Oh, and you think people here are losing sympathy? You are incredibly stupid. Support is growing exponentially. People from all over the world are at the community. I listened to people from Ecuador and Australia speak yesterday. They have traveled incredibly long ways to join, to speak, to stand up for change. To talk of the fight indigenous people all over the world are waging. We are joining together, we are one, we stand as one.
If we lose the sympathy of someone like you? I wouldn’t call it a great loss. People who are capable of thinking, foresight and empathy are with us. The community is already over 7,000 strong. We are back home today, because I was injured, and we have obligations, but we will be back, carrying firewood and other necessities. You don’t have the slightest idea of what is going on, and I pity you.
There was a legal order, from a court, stopping DA when they went out and bulldozed the sacred sites, you dumb sack of shit. Do you really think we don’t know what’s going on here? Part of our legal teams are at the community, we always know what is going on.
@98
The court ruled that pipeline construction could continue, while the federal government said that construction should stop at the contested site. Neither said anything about construction elsewhere having to stop. Those are the legal facts as matters stand right now.
I see EL still wants to conflate the idea that Earth is a living planet with Gaia worship, yet fails to recognize that their stated opinion, that the Earth is a plaything for humans to have dominion over, is literally a biblical command. The earth does best with few to zero humans, by any rational measure of environmental health and diversity.
The moon is devoid of life, as is every other planet in our solar system. The oxygen atmosphere on Earth has been made by living organisms, as has the soil, and even the oil in the Bakken formation is the compressed organic remains of life that existed in the Devonian swamps and seas. Human life is not separate from this continuous web of life, and is just as dependent on it as the birds and the bees. It is completely amoral to claim humans are more important than all other life.
—–
slithey tove
*scrolls up to photo on OP* I know you have already apologized for this thoughtless comment but perhaps you weren’t referring to the pic that accompanies this post? I hope you have learned to not utter the word stereotype in reference to Dakota Indians wearing full traditional Dakota regalia? Why wouldn’t they ride out into this cultural battle dressed in their full birthright? Perhaps the stereotypical bit stems from the fact that they look absolutely awesome, and are very photogenic, especially when they are on horseback on the plains, with the horses also dressed in full regalia. Their eagle feather headdress is not a frivolous costume. It is formal ceremonial attire with as much deep cultural significance as an admiral’s medals, or the pope’s hat.
starfleetdude
So, what are you? Political scientist? Who died and made you arbiter of what counts as “proper activism” and what not?
From somebody who’s been at protests since before her 1st birthday: You’re full of shit. Protests have never ever been controlled by one authority.
Also, what’s your expertise on how those things are “undirected”? What magical brain scans did you conduct to determine that it’s “action for action’s sake”? Where’s your data showing that they’re being “counterproductive”.
You’re just another one of those idiots who will go out of their way to chastise everybody who doesn’t kneel properly and says “please and thank you” for the oppression they suffer.
You probably got opinions on Ferguson, BLM and Kaepernick as well and I bet they ain’t pretty.
And we all know that “legal” is the same as “moral” “just” and “right”. What were those slaves thinking when they ran away because the USSC had decided they were things?
@101
I’m just this dude following the news, and while I’m sympathetic to the goals I have my doubts about the means. What you want politically is sympathy, and actions that drain that away from the broader public are counter-productive.
Take Kaepernick for example. He’s inspired other athletes to take a knee during the pledge in solidarity to BLM, and it’s making people think more about the reasons why they’re doing it. Good.
@102
I wouldn’t compare slavery with oil pipelines, at least if you drive a car yourself.
Letter from Birmingham Jail
MLK
Except, starfleetdude, MANY people are having ‘doubts about the means’ of Kaepernick’s form of protest. Like… a fuckton of people. You are no different from them. “Sit down, shut up, and protest only in ways that I like, when I like.”
For fuck’s sake.
How the fuck are the protesters losing sympathy? They’d lose a little sympathy from me (although not enough to make a difference) if they were preoccupied with just one highly-specific place for one highly-specific reason, because they ought to know (as I’m sure they do) that it’s a much bigger issue than that.
I don’t know how doing shit of your own accord is “anarchist,” but if it works let’s have more of that.
I’m sure others will notice the point sailing over your head, but just so you know, you didn’t actually respond to Giliell’s point.
No one is asking for your tactical advice? Unless you actively oppose the means as immoral, you should probably let the people actually doing the work do the work.
And why do YOU think further non-violent activities, as compare to the armed Bungling Bundy Militia, is necessarily counter productive. I don’t see it. But then, I have seen protests for over 50 years, and can determine those that are violent, from those that are police riots (Ferguson, Selma), and from those that are non-violent. The latter might seem obnoxious to some, but informative to others. Each viewer makes their own decision.
Here’s a good rundown for anyone who is interested:
FAQ: The Dakota Access pipeline and protest
This is particularly interesting from the above:
The question I’d have is this: Is this about making sure that threats to claimed sacred sites and water are avoided, or is this about stopping the building of the pipeline completely? If it’s the former, I’d say the conflict is resolvable. If it’s the latter, not so much.
Well, you show us how to build a safe pipeline.
Or, well, I could just head over to Caine’s and read her in depth coverage again or head over to Twitter and look at the newsfeeds there….
Another thing – no one here is seeking sympathy. We do not look for wasichu pity. That is something to be scorned. The people here are fighting to keep the Missouri River clean, and this does not just affect us, this affects millions upon millions of people. We are fighting for recognition of how oil corporations are lying, of the illegality, corruption, and immorality of what they do. We are fighting for indigenous people around the world, who are also fighting similar fights. We are fighting for ALL people, because if we do not stand up, if we do not get the message out that respect for all life is paramount, it will not only be too late for us, it will be too late for all of us. Man has already gone too far. We must change, and change now. We must attempt to repair what we can, and care for what we can.
Show me they are building a safe pipeline, up to at least the Alaska Pipeline standards or beyond (a third layer). Or they are building an unsafe pipeline, which shouldn’t be completed. And that is the issue.
Giliell @ 111:
What, and listen to Indians? Gosh, I keep hearing in this thread how we don’t know a damn thing. For those who don’t know where to go on twitter:
https://twitter.com/lastrealindians
https://twitter.com/hashtag/NoDAPL?src=hash
https://twitter.com/hashtag/ProtectorsNOTProtesters?src=hash
And for news: http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/ and http://www.indianz.com/
starfleetdude
Why can’t it be both? Why is building the pipeline which will be a source of highly damaging pollution a foregone conclusion? Why would you cast doubt that a graveyard, or a piece of land that is the equivalent of a church is not sacred? Every inch of North Dakota is sacred to the people who have lived there for over ten thousand years you twit. It didn’t stop being their sacred homeland just because it was stolen from them.
This article has a review of the many broken treaties, environmental concerns, and various historical actions that have preceded this protest, and a good discussion of the pressing need for humans to wean themselves from fossil fuels. Cars are a significant source of fossil fuel use and greenhouse gases, but the bulk of fossil fuels are used to produce electricity for industrial and residential use. Protecting our sacred lands, why standing rock matters.
Jebus. “If you were just a little nicer, then maybe I’d respect your concerns.”
I am so over fucking tone trolls.
I am so over ignorant asses who think they do not need to learn. I addressed a couple of the people in this thread in today’s camp post.
Do people say this kind of stuff because they are naive?
Oil Pipeline Companies serve the bottom line.
OPC are NEVER to change their plans.
OPC expend thousands of LawyerHours finding loopholes and sneaking around existing and pending legislation.
.
And (for fucks sake), pipelines work best straight.
Going is not trivial.
And does not serve the bottom line.
.
Do people think that the boundaries of a Reservation were agreed upon by all the involved parties?
Do people think that land claims are about acre here, a tree there?
Discrete units. Not at all connected.
srsly
starfleetdude
I’m pretty sure that a pipeline anywhere is a threat to water everywhere. Therefore, original goal is still relevant, therefore moving locations is merely continued action with the same goal rather than a new and anarchist action undertaken completely frivolously because what else are a bunch of protestors supposed to do, AMIRITE?
And if you honestly, honestly, honestly think that what the Protectors need is more sympathy, you’re as good as saying ‘pray for them’, with the do-nothing christian meaning of that phrase. How is sympathy going to stop the pipeline? It’s not sympathy, but collective outrage and determination to fight the money behind the oil industry that they need. But you know, even without that – they’re not looking for support from wasichu like you, because they know they’ve never had it before and probably never will (except for very short periods of time). They’re going ahead with their own determined, sustained, deeply spiritual and utterly visually awesome action that has, so far, brought the attention of the world and more people willing to get up and join them. Those like you, sitting around and waiting until they’re fucking polite enough for your tastes? They don’t need you. Never have, never will – they’re not catering to your feelings on this, they’re catering to their own community’s needs, like land and water.
I suggest you shut the fuck up.
For the record, here’s the decision by the court to not stop construction of the pipeline:
Civil Action No. 16-1534 (JEB)
It’s interesting to note there is an existing natural gas pipeline in the area crossing the river, and that the DAPL route already avoids culturally significant sites.
The district court has been overruled by the POTUS, and it is quite clear that due diligence required by law has not occurred. From the link in #120.
Here’s a story about the search for burial sites:
North Dakota archaeologist: No burial sites destroyed by Dakota Access