Pat and Peter Shaw were in their 80s, and experiencing physical and cognitive decline, so they decided to die. And they did. Quietly, at home, after talking it over with their grown-up children. It was all very dignified and sensible.
I’d like to fade out that way, except for one difficulty: my wife is going to still be kicking when I’m a doddering wreck, so the joint suicide pact is not going to happen.
PZ, I’m sure there are loads of Christians who’d be only too pleased to assist you, and right away, too. They might balk at taking your wife with you, though.
What do you mean, when you’re a doddering wreck?
That’s what murder-suicides are for. Hey, it’s not like they can throw you in jail, and since you don’t fear the wrath of God there is absolutely nothing that stops you. Remember, the only thing that keeps people from doing wrong is the fear of punishment.
Suicide gets you in Christian hell, though. An oversight that Islam fixed.
The story is heartwarming. What luck they had to decline in tandem. My grandfather had to endure ten years of my grandmother’s Alzheimer’s, and had another five years after that before his systems failed (during which he got to see his new sweetheart start her decline into Alzheimer’s also).
2016 has started with a slew of passings. The most prominent (to me) being Ziggy*, and Prof. Severus Snape**.
(oddly, both at age of 69)
* David Bowie
** Alan Rickman
Don’t let their passing (and the two mentioned in the OP) get one into anticipation, and planning to take active part in it.
Nice to have a “last resort” option, as long as it remains on the far back shelf.
if anyone interested in the topic hasn’t seen Terry Pratchett’s “choosing to die” documentary, it’s on youtube. It’s very beautiful but heartwrenching.
I guess if i want to check out, I could try selling loose cigarettes in NYC. Except there’s never a cop around when you need one.
I feel conflicted about these things. On the one hand, it’s clear to me that the only person who has any right to decide when a person’s life is no longer worth living and that death is the best option is the person living that life. So I don’t see any reason to put barriers in their way. On the other hand, I get suspicious when people talk in glowing terms about suicide as a solution to aging and frailty. It would be all too easy for a right to die to become a duty to die. I don’t know how to best reconcile those two issues.
I guess that with a joint suicide pact you’ll be hallucinating that you’re still alive long after you’ve died,
Put on a djellaba, a turban, and walk down the streets with a plastic toy gun: if a cop doesn’t get you, somebody else will
Right now a dear friend’s mother is dying by inches, in pain and in tears. The palliative care team has offered conflicting information, and generally been a source of additional upset. There is nothing that can be done, beyond making her comfortable. My friend was hopeful that a bed in the hospice center would open today. She is not the first friend who’s had to make these decisions.
I live in Washington State, and according to the most recent report from the State Health Department, in 2014 176 people exercised their rights under the Death With Dignity Act and obtained a prescription for a lethal dose of medication. Of those 176, 170 are known to have died, 126 after taking the medication.
You know what scares me? How many of the local hospitals and hospices are Catholic-affliated, leading to things like this (CW: mention of suicide by firearm):
Lovely story, if that does not sound too strange. Thank you for posting this.
I live in a country where legal euthanasia in a medical situation is possible under certain conditions and regulations. But of course, when my own time comes (don’ t worry, I am not in a hurry) I will not want to depend on some doctor being willing to cooperate.
So like the couple in the story I have done some research. I have not made a definitive choice yet, but I am currently down to two or three suicide methods that would seem acceptable to me. I am not going to discuss them here, because I am not certain of any legal consequences for PZ’s blog and I don’t necessarily want to trigger anyone’s sensitivities. Suffice it to say that my criteria are that it should be as simple, quiet and peaceful as possible: no pain, fear or other suffering for me and no ugly mess that would sicken or traumatise those who would find my body. And of course there can’t be any risk of survival.
Like the Shaws in the story I consider it entirely rational to think ahead in these matters. Study the methods, devise a plan, write down my wishes, get familiar with the necessities even if I aim to live for a few more decades. But I find it gives me comfort and serenity to know that this is something that I will really be able to do if and when I should need or want to.
It’s an exit strategy. I believe everyone should probably have one.
Alzheimer’s runs strong in my family so I don’t know if I’ll have that option. On the other hand, cancer is also big in my family so maybe I will.
Unfortunately Roman Catholicism also afflicts my family so there will be a strong pressure to accept the Suffering of Christ™ so I have to wait and see.
Unfortunately, there aren’t enough regulations when it comes to assisted suicide. There is a need for more psychiatric evaluations to rule out mental illness as the impetus for suicide. Certainly there are people with mental illness who are “sane” when they decide to die by assisted suicide. We also need to be able to follow the statistics on assisted suicide. There are a few other issues that I can’t remember
Perhaps. A few seconds’ thought hasn’t led me to many other examples of “a right” becoming “a duty”, easily or otherwise; in fact, aside from the duty (at least in Australia, but very much not in the USA) to vote, I haven’t thought of any (and now that few seconds has become a minute!).
That is a very sweet story of love, strength and dignity. They would have been an interesting pair to talk to. While it is too bad I can’t speak with them, it is good that they exited on their own terms.
Despite following Australian news (albeit off and on) I had not discovered this particular tale. Thank you for posting it.
Checking out: New Constellation http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/belgian-astronomers-pay-tribute-to-david-bowie-with-new-constellation-20160116
Your voting–or not–imposes no hardship, emotional, labor/time-related, or economic, on family members.
I was making an argument against the proposition set forth by Dianne @7, that “It would be all too easy for a right to die to become a duty to die”; my argument was that I could think of only one other “right” that has (in some places, not the USA) become a “duty”, namely, the right to vote. Since (as you point out) the transformation from “right” to “duty” in that case doesn’t cause any apparent hardship, even if the transformation were easy for voting (and I don’t think it would be, in the USA), that case wouldn’t provide much (or any) support for other cases that would (often) cause hardship; so one possible source of support for Dianne’s proposition has been considerably weakened until and unless someone rises to the challenge of finding an example in which (1) a right has become a duty, and (2) the exercise of that right by a particular party is very likely to cause hardship to other parties.
One possible example could be a USAn jurisdiction in which the “right” to carry a firearm at all times has become a “duty” to do so (various jurisdictions have tried to enact such laws, but I don’t think any of them have been left standing).
To me the most convincing counterargument to the hypothesis that the right to die might become a duty or requirement to die is that the Netherlands hasn’t become a hellhole where you get offered cyanide instead of a cast for a broken ankle. However, the Netherlands does have relatively poor outcomes with respect to cancer survival and spends relatively little on research, maybe because they think that people who are dying are not worth spending money on? I don’t know enough about the culture and the details of how spending decisions are made to really know so I will say that I could be completely wrong on that.
Also, US culture in particular devalues people who are not healthy. Especially if their unhealthiness makes them expensive or “dependent”. It’s not a cultural trait that I think should be encouraged. And I can see all too easily people saying, “Why should we spend money trying to keep people with Alzheimer’s alive or trying to keep their illness from working? Just give them some pills and let them get it over with.”
It doesn’t have to be an either/or, of course: Pratchett kept the option of suicide open until pneumonia got him first, but he also spent years living with Alzheimer’s and writing books while sick with Alzheimer’s. So it’s perfectly possible to have an incurable illness, still enjoy life and what you can do (possibly with assistance and treatment), and be ready to end things when it’s all too much. That, I think, would be the ideal: Give everyone the chance to fight as long as they want to and then the ability to withdraw when they’re done.
Perhaps we need some sort of clause in living wills which reads (euphemistically): if the lights are still on, but there is nobody home, you have my permission to turn them off.
leerudolph @18: not a de jure legal duty to die, but a de facto moral one. In the US, where medical bills and an appalling lack of support for caregivers is a thing, and where support for mental health is a sick joke, a right to die can quite easily be a moral duty to die – which may be felt directly the sick person, who is afraid of beggaring their family with end-of-life care, or indirectly through the financial and emotional exhaustion of caregivers. And of course there is the potential for abuse; if slightly-mentally-out-of-it Grandma is gone, the kids taking care of her get the house, and hell, wasn’t she saving those pills for when it got unbearable anyway? Who’s to say that she didn’t say ‘now’s the time’ instead of dragging it out another six months?
lucy1965 at comment 10 talks about a palliative care team, whose entire job is to comfort the dying, being unhelpful to a suffering person at end of life – yet we want to believe, against all evidence, that a system which actively enables people to commit suicide will flawlessly insure that they are doing so only in an atmosphere free of coercion and after having been given full and complete information and access to alternatives, such as mental health assistance, or pain relief and other palliative care.
The Catholic health care system’s opposition to assisted suicide comes from a warped view of the sanctity of life. Knee-jerking by running to the opposition position is profoundly misplaced. Sir Terry Pratchett is often touted in support of assisted suicide, but it’s worth noting that by all accounts, he chose not to hasten his own death.
http://www.notdeadyet.org/disability-rights-toolkit-for-advocacy-against-legalization-of-assisted-suicide
He didn’t die because of his disease. He made it quite clear that if it came down to it, he would do it.
My support for assisted suicide is completely selfish, I think. I don’t want to be kept alive with life support if I’m unable to control my body, I don’t want to linger with Alzheimer’s and I don’t want to end up waiting to die with some terminal illness. If there’s no legal means to seek assisted suicide, I would definitely try to do it myself, unless otherwise unable to.
Gen, Uppity Ingrate and Ilk @22: I’m not sure I understand your comment. By all accounts, he died as a result of his illness and not by suicide. Is this incorrect?
In the US, if someone is on life support and not expected to recover, it is completely legal and encouraged for their decision makers to withdraw care. There is nothing even slightly illegal, unethical, or fattening about doing so, unless the person in question has somehow attracted Republican attention and become a political football. Tom Delay “pulled the plug” on his father after he suffered horrific brain damage in a freak accident. And then tried to prevent Terri Schiavo’s loved ones from doing the same for her.
Reason number 1003 to return to the west coast.
I wish that there was a way to end the pain that I am in every single day.
Olav @ 11:
I agree. We have plans in place to manage our deaths, when the time comes.