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Unproportional! Vicious! Hypocritical! Hysterical!

RIPscience

There’s a letter going around, in support of Geoff Marcy. If you’d rather not read it, just see panels 4 and 5 of this cartoon.

Dear Colleagues,

Due to my outrage concerning the disgusting attack of the (mostly) US1 astronomical community against Geoff Marcy, and the apparent lack of any counter movement against this madness, I would like to draw your attention to the danger of remaining silent in this situation.

What we can gather from the newspapers and web sites discussing the issue, it is clear that the reaction of the community was unproportional, vicious, hypocritical and hysterical2. The unleashed hate3, clearly blowing out of proportion the weight of his behavior and leaving wide open space to any further accusation against anybody showing some level of casual interaction4 and furthermore, endanger normal and friendly contacts in the community and in the society, as a whole. I hope you recognize the great danger of accepting the total destruction of someone’s undeniable contribution to science5 because of the hypocritical attitude the community seems to accept these days.

Considering the pace of events, I think that the clock is ticking very quickly. If the mature and free-thinking part of the community does not act right now, I am sure that the game ends very quickly, and those who initiated this dirty, unethical and disgraceful attack6, will win. Today Geoff, tomorrow you or me.7

Sincerely,

Geza Kovacs, DSc
Konkoly Observatory

p.s.: You are free to circulate this letter to anybody you think might be willing to act. This letter has been sent also to other researchers.

1I’ve seen this same weird displacement activity among atheists, too. It’s just Americans who are too sensitive. I have never heard Americans accused of “sensitivity” in any other context. Either there is no sexism in Europe, or European men are especially oblivious.

2Speaking of unproportional, vicious, hypocritical and hysterical, isn’t the accusation that people who are unhappy with the lack of consequences to Marcy kind of unproportional, vicious, hypocritical and hysterical?

3Ditto. I haven’t seen any expressions of hate at all — mostly regret, dismay, and anger at both the behavior and the timidity of UCB.

4Ahem. Casual interaction? An official investigation at Berkeley found:

After a six-month investigation, Geoff Marcy — a professor at the University of California, Berkeley, who has been mentioned as a potential Nobel laureate — was found to have violated campus sexual harassment policies between 2001 and 2010. Four women alleged that Marcy repeatedly engaged in inappropriate physical behavior with students, including unwanted massages, kisses, and groping.

I just got out of lab with my cell biology students. I managed to help them do measurements of enzyme reaction rates with no massages, kisses, or groping. I would not call such activities casual interaction.

5Marcy’s contributions to science have not been destroyed. Neither has Marcy’s career.

If we’re going to talk about destruction, how about the careers of the women who fled astronomy because of the disrespect, or how about their potential contributions to science?

6Again, official, formal investigation by the university in response to a decade of bad behavior by Marcy, with at least four clear victims. If I had to name who was dirty, unethical, and disgraceful, it would be someone whose name begins with “G” and ends with “eoff Marcy”.

7It might be you tomorrow if you are massaging, kissing, or groping your students. It might also be you tomorrow if you’re in the habit of robbing banks; that you might be thrown in prison for that crime if you were to rob a bank is not an argument that bank robbers need to be treated leniently.

At any rate, Kovacs was too late. Marcy has resigned.

I guess all Kovacs can do now is help him land a new position somewhere less concerned about Dr Handsy fondling the undergrads, and more enthused about getting grants and fame. I’m sure there will be no shortage of positions available, and may Cthulhu have mercy on the students8 at his next institution.

8Cthulhu will show no mercy.

Others are coming forward. Would you believe his bad behavior goes back 30 years? Of course you would.

His inappropriate behaviour goes back a good thirty years, when he was teaching at San Francisco State University.

This is where I met him in 1985 when we both worked in the Physics and Astronomy Department while I was a Master’s student and a lecturer. It was well known that he had intimate relationships with several of his female students. But it is not the only aspect where I felt Marcy’s ethics were questionable.

In 1987, Marcy’s colleague in the search for exoplanets realized that he had handed her a revised copy of their joint grant proposal. On the copy Marcy had given her, both their names appeared, his as main investigator and hers, as co-investigator. But Marcy’s official copy, the one he had submitted to the funding agency, bore only his name.

She reported this to the department head, who fired her on the spot. Marcy was the rising star of his department. She then filed a formal complaint for professional misconduct against Marcy. But she was unable to recover her position and she left the field of astronomy. Following these events, a few people tried to draw the University’s attention to Geoff Marcy’s inappropriate behaviour with his female students.

Guess what the university did?

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Comments

  2. says

    Ye doth protest too much, Mr Kovacs? Sure, protecting your hero is a pretty powerful motivation, but not nearly as powerful as knowing you’re guilty of the same bad behavior.

  5. nelliebly says

    I had my suspicions about the letter’s content when I saw the word “hysterical ” being used, but this is some grade A bullshit shat from a bull of Minoan proportions

    Maybe you and your arsehole colleague could just keep your grubby little paws to yourselves Mr Kovacs, and stop acting like sexist and sexual harassment is the price women should pay for scientific endeavour.

  6. Onamission5 says

    unproportional, vicious, hypocritical and hysterical

    I wonder what reaction Kovacs thinks would have been proportional, measured, consistent, and rational? Could it be… the same thing that has allowed Marcy to do, and keep doing, exactly what he’s gotten away with over the course of the past decade? The same proportional, measured, consistent, rational response which allowed Marcy to accrue no fewer than four victims, and dash four people’s careers? Could it be.. any reaction which had at its forefront the voices of men defending Marcy and attacking or dismissing his victims, rather than women condemning him and saying yes, shit like this does happen all the time?

  7. Larry says

    I’m a bit stunned to hear Marcy has resigned. That’s the most honorable thing he’s done since this sad episode began.

  8. Courtney Simpson says

    Geez, how did the letter writer even stagger from the fainting couch to the computer to send this?

  9. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Geez, how did the letter writer even stagger from the fainting couch to the computer to send this?

    Misogynist autopilot.

  10. carlie says

    Before anyone complains that this is too severe for him “just finding out his actions were wrong”, let me repeat myself from the last thread about this:

    But in her [Murray-Clay] capacity as student representative to the Berkeley astronomy faculty, she says, she spoke with him several times in December 2004, directly confronting him with complaints from undergrads and graduate students.
    After speaking to her in person, he wrote her an email. “Thanks for all those thoughts and hopes,” he wrote. “I feel lucky that you’re helping me see myself better from the outside, and from the inside too.”
    HE WAS TOLD ABOUT IT ELEVEN YEARS AGO. Even if you want to pull the “some men just don’t realize it” defense, he cannot be in that category. He was explicitly told what he was doing was wrong, and he explicitly acknowledged it.

  11. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    The university contends that they chose not to impose discipline in this case because discipline imposed (as opposed to discipline mutually agreed by university and the disciplined party) requires essentially going before the full faculty and presenting evidence of misconduct. It’s a process that (they say) is highly unpredictable and (thus) unfair. Instead, they settled for an agreement with Marcy that if he were accused of violating the policy in the future*1 he would forego the presentation of the charges and proposed discipline to the faculty, accepting the administrations’ findings and proposed discipline as determinative, even if that proposed discipline included suspension or dismissal.

    Me? I think that it’s probably true that submitting charges and punishments to a large faculty body (not a narrow body of limited membership: if nomination is not available without specific expertise and a history of work that lends credence to the idea one can engage such charges impartially, such a smaller body ought to be able to hear these cases productively) is problematic, but if that’s the avenue you have I think I would have gone with it.

    To the university’s credit, they say they are going to seek reform having just realized how this process is totes not acceptable to them. Congratulations on saying that, Berkeley.

    However, they’re incredibly disingenuous in implying that they couldn’t get appropriate discipline by going to the full faculty. This is the official statement released by the UC Berkeley Astronomy faculty on department letterhead:

    October 12, 2015

    We, the undersigned UC Berkeley Astronomy faculty, write to make clear that sexual harassment has no place in our Department, and that we fully support the survivors of harassment. We regret the harm caused by our faculty, and reject any suggestion that our sympathies should be with the perpetrators of sexual harassment. We are committed to developing and maintaining a supportive, open climate in which all members of the Department can thrive, regardless of gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, disability, or religious faith. This goal has been compromised by policies that led to a lack of communication in UC Berkeley’s handling of Geoff Marcy’s sexual harassment case. We urge the UC Berkeley administration to re-evaluate its response to Marcy, who has been found in violation of UC sexual harassment policy. We believe that Geoff Marcy cannot perform the functions of a faculty member.

    Sincerely,
    Jonathan Arons
    Gibor Basri
    Steven Beckwith
    Joshua Bloom
    Eugene Chiang
    Marc Davis
    Imke de Pater
    Alex Filippenko
    Reinhard Genzel
    Al Glassgold
    James Graham
    Carl Heiles
    Paul Kalas
    Daniel Kasen
    Richard Klein
    Mariska Kriek
    Chung-Pei Ma
    Burkhard Militzer
    Peter Nugent
    Aaron Parsons
    Eliot Quataert
    Uros Seljak
    Daniel Weisz
    Martin White

    Nit-pickers will take note the statement was modified by the release of an official amendment/addendum the next day:

    Reinhard Genzel was traveling and not present at the Monday 10/12/15 faculty meeting where the Title IX reports against Geoff were read out loud. He has since been apprised of the situation, and adds his signature to the faculty statement.

    Apparently despite his name appearing on the official statement dated 10/12, his name was added to it retroactively.

    Apparently not assenting (unknown if they were also missing/travelling) are Professors:
    Leo Blitz
    Raymond Jeanloz

    Geoff Marcy is not on the list as assenting, but neither is he listed on the “Current Faculty” page of UCB’s Astronomy department.*2

    I find it unlikely that the massed faculty would overturn the suggestions of the administration in this case where it would amount to other departments forcing retention of a professor on a department that clearly does not want that professor.

    Given priors related to how loathe universities have been to condemn the behavior of celebrated professors in past situations, I’m finding it damn difficult to conclude anything other than that this was a huge favor to an already favored professor. Had this been taken to faculty, it could not have remained quiet and students would have been hugely active in raising a stink about not only Marcy’s behavior, but also about the process protecting him. To have gone forward with this would have made Marcy less likely to be hired to a position of prestige with another institution*3. Marcy had every motivation to resign rather than go through that, and seeing as how he has already resigned, it might be that he had a “quiet” agreement to resign in place. Whether such an agreement existed, however, isn’t important to this point:

    By refusing to put this to the faculty, the administration has made certain the deficiencies in the current process receive **less** attention than they would have with students attending to the faculty judicial process. With so many smart, educated people on campus, if the administration truly wanted to reform the process it could have gained immeasurable free assistance in conceiving, formulating, and elaborating arguments against the current process and proposals for productive reform. It could also, by-the-by, have avoided releasing a statement saying that their agreement with Marcy established a “zero tolerance” policy for sexual harassment by Marcy, with all the “sure we have tolerance” implications it carried in support of other professors on campus worried their abuses of power might come back to bite them.

    Berkeley, like so many persons and institutions before, have created a situation in which one must conclude that they are

    1) unable to think they are able to think through the reasonable consequences of their actions and pick the path that aligns with their goals

    or
    2) evil.

    It is up to Berkeley, at this point, to communicate whether they would prefer to be seen as an institution of stupidity or an institution of evil. I await their further PR efforts for a definitive answer to that question.

    ============================================================
    *1: including violating the specific conditions imposed in the same contract that are intended to spell out actions of his which have contributed to violations in the policy in the past even if such actions would not always in all contexts constitute such a violation. In those cases, context wouldn’t need to be examined, though it was the university’s supposed intent to examine them anyway. Making the context irrelevant was simply a way of making the university’s decision about whether the behavior constituted harassment unchallengeable, since the mere behavior actually having happened would, in Marcy’s case and by this specific agreement, be harassment by definition. This does not, of course, mean that the policy has changed such that all instances of such behavior are included in the future when performed by any person in any context. It just means that the university didn’t trust Marcy to know when the context made a behavior okay and when it didn’t and felt it was a risk to reasonable imposition of discipline in the future if Marcy (and his lawyer(s)) were allowed to challenge the characterization of some behavior as “harassing”.

    *2 Permit me a bit of glee at the fast action on that one.

    *3: he would have been hired by someone else, have no doubt, but to a position of prestige might have been another matter. The rapidity and relative quiet of foregoing the presentation to the faculty works decidedly in Marcy’s favor in finding a position of prestige within 2 years.

  12. numerobis says

    So he’s been dodging sexual harassment policies despite his bosses knowing about it for *thirty years*.

  14. says

    Are you masquerading as an educated person? If not, then you should be well aware that the word is – disproportionate. Not

    Unproportional!

    Regards,

  15. A. Noyd says

    Marcy’s contributions to science have not been destroyed.

    Good grief. Even if they had, the person to blame for that would be be Marcy himself. By caring more about being a harassing fuckface than advancing astronomy.

  17. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    Are you masquerading as an educated person? If not, then you should be well aware that the word is – disproportionate. Not
    Unproportional!

    My hungarian isn’t as good as as Kovacs’ english – and frankly that’s surprising given the difficulty in finding a good Hungarian => English phrasebook. Thus, I am not quite so quick to criticize the erroneous extrapolation from English’s common patterns of prefix/suffix use*1 as I am to criticize the fucked up sexism.

    *1: Even my knowledge of Hungarian prefix/suffix usage and rules is decidedly inferior to Kovacs’ knowledge of English prefix/suffix usage and rules. Really!

  18. brett says

    It doesn’t even surprise me at all that he was serving on a Committee on the Status of Women while being a serial sexual harasser. That way, when his misconduct finally became public, he could always try and gaslight his victims by saying, “No, I’m not a sexual harasser! Look at what I’ve done for women in astronomy!”

    And like all such folks, he would test the boundaries:

    Mr. Marcy, she says, would isolate a female student in his lab or find a way to talk to her privately on the campus, away from others. During the talk, he would make a slightly inappropriate comment, touch or kiss the student, and then apologize, according to what women told her. Depending on the reaction he got, she says, he would either back off or take another step forward. Students, she says, complained that he had given them rides home, taken them out to coffee, and told them he and his wife had an open relationship.

    It’s almost a perfect case example of this type of thing.

  19. Lilith Velkor says

    So even Marcy’s first big grant came from ripping off a women’s work. A misogynist pig from the very first.

  20. militantagnostic says

    Al Dente

    I wonder what sort of reputation Dr. Kovacs has among his students.

    I think the gentleman doth protest too much. You can read the fear that he will be next to be exposed plain as day in that letter. At first I wasn’t sure that it wasn’t satire.

    It looks like it took a mutiny by nearly the entire faculty to get rid of Marcy.

  21. karpad says

    Giliell@4

    That’s a missunderstanding. There’s no sexism (or racism, or transphobia, etc.) on Europa. The continent here on earth is ripe with it.

    ALL THESE WORLDS ARE YOURS—EXCEPT EUROPA
    ATTEMPT NO LANDING THERE

  22. says

    Today Geoff, tomorrow you or me.

    Well, Geza Kovacs, DSc, if you are a serial harrasser and commit serial sexual assault, then yes, it most definitely should be you. It’s a bit odd, that such important, intelligent, accomplished men just don’t fucking get that, don’t you think?

  23. says

    In 1987, Marcy’s colleague in the search for exoplanets realized that he had handed her a revised copy of their joint grant proposal. On the copy Marcy had given her, both their names appeared, his as main investigator and hers, as co-investigator. But Marcy’s official copy, the one he had submitted to the funding agency, bore only his name.

    She reported this to the department head, who fired her on the spot. Marcy was the rising star of his department. She then filed a formal complaint for professional misconduct against Marcy. But she was unable to recover her position and she left the field of astronomy. Following these events, a few people tried to draw the University’s attention to Geoff Marcy’s inappropriate behaviour with his female students.

    Jesus Fuck. That is a whole lot of despicable behaviour. Who knows what the field of astronomy, and all of us lost the day she was treated so very badly and fired?

  24. says

    #milirantagnostic @20

    It looks like it took a mutiny by nearly the entire faculty to get rid of Marcy.

    I am taking slight consolation in the fact, that there was a mutiny.

  25. dianne says

    Two rumors for your consideration:
    1. Marcy’s reputation was such that women at Berkley were routinely warned not to work in his group.
    2. Marcy is not the only professor at Berkley that has acted in ways that are less than totally appropriate towards their students. It is likely that the university will declare that it has rid itself of the bad apple and all is well now. But it’s not. Berkley, among others, needs to clean house thoroughly.

  26. says

    So even Marcy’s first big grant came from ripping off a women’s work. A misogynist pig from the very first.

    Makes you wonder exactly how much of the work attributed to him was actually his own.

  27. bassmike says

    I am pleased to report that in response to this whole episode my department (also a Physics & Astronomy one) has issues an unequivocal statement reinforcing the harassment and bullying policy and outlining the procedures for raising issues. Also, we have specific academics to whom women students can go if they have any concerns.

  28. dianne says

    Also, just to give an idea of the level the conversation is at right now, another institution which shall remain anonymous has a harassment policy that goes something like this: If a complaint is made, it is noted and put in the file of the person against whom the accusation is made. No action is taken against the alleged harasser. If a second complaint is made, then an investigation ensues with the possibility that the alleged harasser will face penalties. In principle, the complaints are anonymous and no action is taken against the person making the allegation. The reason for this “first one is free” rule is that the institution basically decided that it doesn’t have the resources to investigate every complaint but that if the first complaint is noted then it creates a paper trail to demonstrate a pattern of behavior and strengthen the case of the second person making a complaint.

    And yes, this is an improvement over their former policy, which seems to have been “ignore the problem, it will likely go away.” Which is still current policy at many institutions. Ah, but sexism is over, you know?

  29. opposablethumbs says

    Makes you wonder exactly how much of the work attributed to him was actually his own.

    Good point. Fine old tradition*, really – passing off the work of your apprentices or subordinates as your own, putting all the achievements of a group, a lab, an artists’ studio, a nation … under one name. But where male apprentices had at least the slim chance of becoming A Name some day, women have been and still are far more likely to be erased altogether.

    * As in, deeply shitty tradition

  30. dianne says

    But where male apprentices had at least the slim chance of becoming A Name some day, women have been and still are far more likely to be erased altogether.

    Would this be a good moment to mention Annie Jump Cannon? Or maybe Cecilia Payne? How about Jocelyn Bell Burnell?

  31. ModZero says

    Either there is no sexism in Europe, or European men are especially oblivious.

    Europeans, especially western, are oblivious as something very oblivious. See also, “racism is an american problem, we had no slavery, leave our Zwarte Piet in peace”, and ads where women are told to aspire to be luxury escorts, which are currently making my YouTube unbearably gross. There’s a quite colonial belief that we’re more advanced than “colonies” (without using the word, of course, because then it would be impossible to ignore the ethics of the issue — and bringing ethics into discussion is tantamount to assault).

  32. Ariel says

    Like Kovacs, I’m an East European academic. This is just to say that there are many people also here who would never want to have anything to do with his initiative. In fact, I find it utterly disgusting.

  33. zenlike says

    I was first going to make a simple comment along the lines of “Fuck you too Geza Kovacs”, but on second thought I’m going with: “Thank you Geza Kovacs, for giving a clear signal to your fellow female academics and students to stay the fuck away from you.”

    Dianne @ 28
    Looks like this is an expensive liability lawsuit in the making against that anonymous institution

    Re: Europe,
    What other including ModZero and Giliell already touched upon: the problems regarding sexism and racism are as big in Europe as in the US, but somehow a lot of people here don’t believe it exists, or that it is at least “less severe” than on the other side of the Atlantic. I was mostly unaware of this viewpoint until elevatorgate broke out, and a large contingent of European (mostly UK) atheists came out strongly on the wrong side of this issue. An additional eye opener for us social justice minded European atheists.

  34. Sili says

    My hungarian isn’t as good as as Kovacs’ english – and frankly that’s surprising given the difficulty in finding a good Hungarian => English phrasebook.

    Yandelvayasna grldenwi stravenka.

  36. pentatomid says

    Europeans, especially western, are oblivious as something very oblivious. See also, “racism is an american problem, we had no slavery, leave our Zwarte Piet in peace”

    Ah, the Zwarte Piet issue. Now there’s a particularly infuriating one. Yeah, most people here in Europe (I’m belgian) really are shockingly oblivious to social justice issues in general.

  37. dianne says

    Looks like this is an expensive liability lawsuit in the making against that anonymous institution

    Actually, probably not. Because they can demonstrate that their policy is stricter than average and therefore they are performing within community standards for harassment. At least, when I considered suing a certain institution for sexual discrimination (as in, not providing support, opportunities for advancement, and salary to me based on gender), the lawyer who evaluated the case said, essentially, “It’s pretty clear that this is discrimination, but it’s not more discrimination than is expected in this situation so you probably won’t be able to make much out of it.” Yep, all an institution has to be is no more sexist than its peers.

  38. says

    pentatomid

    Ah, the Zwarte Piet issue. Now there’s a particularly infuriating one. Yeah, most people here in Europe (I’m belgian) really are shockingly oblivious to social justice issues in general.

    Don’t get me started on Halloween/carnival costumes. I’m sick and tired of having to tell my kid why “Indian princess” is NOT going to happen

  39. Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought says

    In my part of Europe the general view is that political correctness in USA is running rampant and you can’t even look at a woman without being called sexist. So no, there is no sexism in Europe and we’re so much better than US because:
    a) On one hand, we’re not sexist
    b) But we also haven’t reached its absurd levels of political correctness when everything is supposedly sexist.

    *sigh*
    Bullshit, I know

  40. says

    Somewhat off-topic,
    According to this guys website, http://www.gkovacs.com/, he created UNetbootin, a useful tool for making bootable Linux USB sticks.

    I’ll be using Rufus* (or pendrivelinux) from here on out, that ‘s for sure.

    *Rufus is better anyway, neener neener neerner.

  41. Jeff K says

    Speaking of poor behavior in cancer researchers, I’m reading the Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks, and there are plenty of scientists who were dragged kicking and screaming into the modern era of patient rights. Their predictions of doom for medical research have not come true, despite being forced to treat research subjects as human beings.

  42. nutella says

    But she was unable to recover her position and she left the field of astronomy.

    Obviously, there are fewer women in science because they just don’t care to enter the field. Nothing needs to be done about lack of diversity since it’s just due to different interests! /snark

  43. patrick2 says

    Just re the Europe and racism topic, my impression is that Europe generally is a MORE racist place than the United States. The US has seemed to absorb a huge amount of of immigrants, including undocumented migrants, to the point that white people will apparently soon make up only about half the population. I don’t want to minimise the racism that exists in the US, but I can’t imagine any European country absorbing an influx of people to such a degree. Not without a big resurgence of fascism.

    Also would be surprised if any European country today elected a non-white president/prime minister.

  44. says

    patrick2 @ 43:

    Just re the Europe and racism topic, my impression is that Europe generally is a MORE racist place than the United States. The US has seemed to absorb a huge amount of of immigrants, including undocumented migrants, to the point that white people will apparently soon make up only about half the population.

    Yeah, and the white folk aren’t upset about that at all. Nope. Not at all. They are so cool with immigrants comin’ in, they don’t care what religion they are, oh no, and of course, they don’t care if people don’t speak English, why almost every white person in the U.S. is multilingual, oh my yes, no trouble over multi-language signage or anything. Nope. And the white folks in the U.S., why they are so might white, there’s no talk of building HUGE fences and walls, no, and they are rushing to usher in all the brown folks, and my goodness, there’s so little racism in the U.S., don’t pay attention to non-white people being murdered by cops every day, why, that stuff is rumours. Mostly.

    I don’t want to minimise the racism that exists in the US, but I can’t imagine any European country absorbing an influx of people to such a degree. Not without a big resurgence of fascism.

    Oh, you can’t…I see. You are a gold-plated dimwitted idiot.

    Also would be surprised if any European country today elected a non-white president/prime minister.

    Golly, yeah, they are so damn backwards, why many European countries have had women elected to highest office for a very long time now, years and years! Well, there’s none of that shit in the U.S., nope. It might be best if you did some checking before going full court ‘merica rah fucking rah’, because we have nothing to brag about.

  45. F.O. says

    While all the outrage about sexual harassment is just and needed, I would have liked to see more outrage about removing a contributor’s name from an official document, especially from those complaining about stifling the research process.

    @JJ831 #40
    sudo dd if=Downloads/ubuntu-whatever.iso of=/dev/sdb
    Works like a charm, no packages needed, just make sure you don’t overwrite your hdd by mistake.

  47. says

    Patrick2

    Just re the Europe and racism topic, my impression is that Europe generally is a MORE racist place than the United States. The US has seemed to absorb a huge amount of of immigrants, including undocumented migrants, to the point that white people will apparently soon make up only about half the population. I don’t want to minimise the racism that exists in the US, but I can’t imagine any European country absorbing an influx of people to such a degree. Not without a big resurgence of fascism.

    I think it’s always easier to see the racism that’s not in front of you. Of course, every immigration wave apart from the original WASPS has faced some generations or two of imense discrimination in the USA.
    Is Europe racist? Yes of course it is. And you don’t need to wait to see fascism rearing its head, just look to HUngary. But on the other hand we don’t regularly have the police murder PoC without any consequences for them (though it happens, of course).
    Also, large parts of the Republican party would be counted among the neo fascists here.

  48. dianne says

    I don’t want to minimise the racism that exists in the US, but I can’t imagine any European country absorbing an influx of people to such a degree.

    The US has promised (only promised, mind you, not actually delivered on the promise) to take in about as many Syrian refugees as Germany takes in on an average weekend. I won’t say there hasn’t been friction because that would be a clear lie, but it’s happening.

    As for how the US is dealing with immigrants, take a look at Republican front runner Trump’s single stated position on any issue which consists of building a wall between the US and Mexico and stripping US citizens of their citizenship if he decides that he doesn’t like their ancestors. Go ahead, take a look at his campaign website and tell me if I’m misrepresenting him.

  49. quotetheunquote says

    Would this be a good moment to mention Annie Jump Cannon? Or maybe Cecilia Payne? How about Jocelyn Bell Burnell?

    … and please don’t forget Henrietta Leavitt, the discoverer of the period/luminosity relationship in Cepheid variable stars. Without that insight, distance scales in a galactic context would have been very difficult to work out.

  50. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    Stephanie Kwolek gave us Kevlar, though women kicking ass in physical chemistry doesn’t start or end with Kevlar:
    Katherine Cochrane just hit the news with some of her own awesome materials science. Though, of course, she didn’t do it alone. The woman PhD researcher had to have some help from professor Sarah Burke.

    Burke is also pretty darn cool for supporting Patrick Stewart’s unconventional, anti-colonialist thesis and defense. (Zoe Quinn, you’re on the wrong side of this one.)

  52. says

    But she was unable to recover her position and she left the field of astronomy.

    But why are there no women in STEM? Maybe it’s just “more of a guy thing”…

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  53. patrick2 says

    Caine@44
    I wasn’t attempting at all to go “full court ‘merica rah fucking rah’”. Reading it again, though, I can see how it came across that way.

    I’m an Australian with European relatives, and my experience makes me sceptical of the common European tendency to dismiss racism (and sexism, etc) as a problem for backwards Americans, as opposed to liberal Europe. From my knowledge and (admittedly less) experience with the US, the thought of outsiders immigrating is not as feared as it is in much of Europe. As Giliell@47 mentioned, though, I’m not there, and a large portion of the Republican party could easily be called neofascist.

    So apologies if I seemed dismissive of the racism/xenophobia that does exist (and god knows my country, Australia, has plenty of it), or if I implied the US is a rosier place than it is.