I saw this silly comparison somewhere.
Radical Islamists are destroying irreplaceable artifacts that are thousands of years old. This is deplorable and disgraceful.
Those secular “radicals” are asking that we not regard a movie promo from 1956 — that’s right, most of these monuments were sent out to advertise a movie by Cecil B. DeMille — as appropriate civic displays, and are asking that they be removed from courthouses and moved to private places, like churches.
Where the congregation can more appropriately continue their worship of Cecil, capitalism, and the era they regard as the high water mark of American culture.
The only obvious question is: “Have you Bozos* read the constitution?”
__________________________
* with sincere apologies to the original Bozo, who was (I guess) a lot more rational.
Well, clearly Islamic radicalism is much smarter than “secularist radicalism”: Daesh destroys the large works of arts too cumbersome to be moved around in public in order to artificially inflate the black market prices of archeological artifacts and make a tidy profits selling the smaller relic.
Secularists displace stuff from public to private property without making a cent in the process.
Wow, that’s an amazingly dishonest comparison. This is the first I’ve heard of American Vision, but already I know they are yet another unhinged group of ultra-conservatives. Some differences:
– The statues / ruins of e.g. Palmyra are thousands – that’s plural, multiple thousands – of years old. The Ten Commandments monument is several decades old.
– The civilisation that made the ancient statues no longer exist; they are irreplaceable remnants of huge historical import. The Commandments are just a contemporary engraving that can still be commissioned.
– The statues are being destroyed. The Commandments are being relocated.
– What the fuck does ‘secularist radicalism’ even mean? Describing a movement as radical simply means it is bringing social change, radicalism is not inherently bad. It is simply yet another word swiftly losing all meaning thanks to the know-nothing lunacy of American conservatism.
YEp, each and every stone with the ten commandments, as irreplacable as the Palmyra monuments…
American Christian exceptionalism…
Yes, I have many questions. Many many questions.
Why is it Islamic Radicalism vs Secularist Radicalism?
I mean, I have contextual questions too, but seriously, isn’t that a little odd?
Holms @ 8:
As a thousand years is but a day to God, so a thousand years in the furriner culture is but a decade in the U!S!A!
The 1950’s, in a way, no longer exist (except in the heads of conserva-cranks, who would like very much to bring their idea of what they were like to life), therefore the movie prop is also an irreplaceable artifact as well.
A distinction without a difference to Christian exceptionalists. If you can’t put your stamp of authority on public spaces by putting your icon there, it’s the same as destroying that icon.
“Radical” is the more pejorative word for “different”, something conservatives hate, since the idealized past was ideal, and we’ve strayed from it. “Secular” just means boogeyman, as near as I can tell.
Any questions?
Yes, please: Can I have a bit less — actually, a lot less — of your frothing madness on my cappuccino?
If there were awards for willfully scaremongering, heinously dishonest comparisons, this would surely be a strong contender for first place.
It is a little worrying that, once again, the religious Right is so eagerly wheeling out the deeply strange notion that there is some equivalency between (and, among the more rabid conservative conspiracy advocates, even a belief in some kind of poorly thought out secret alliance between) Islamic religious fundamentalists and secularists, and by secularists they basically mean anyone who doesn’t aspire to live under the rule of a hard line Christo-fascist theocracy.
The false equivalency they are working so hard to draw between extreme Islamists and Secualrists makes me suspect that they might try to argue that it is legitimate to use anti-terror laws and the machinery of the State against anyone who opposes their dominionist agenda, since secularism and Islamic fundamentalism are totally the same thing, dontcahknow…
Also the picture shows them cutting around it and moving it… Not exactly destroying it.
The false analogy has always been a favorite weapon of kooks and cranks.
Any questions?
Yes. One. Do conservative christians have any arguments or memes that aren’t based on lies or misrepresentation?
Because of differences with how they wish to portray each group.
Their goal in using “islamic” rather than the neologism “Islamist” is that “Islamist” was specifically contrived to indicate that these radicals are not reflective of Islam as a whole, or their followers. By using “Islamic” they seek to tar all muslims as radicals.
The reason they say “secularist” rather than “secular” is related to their goal of painting secular thought as ideologically driven, akin to “Atheism is also a religion” deals. “They are not supporting secular behavior, they are specifically anti-christian.” We are not secular people. We believe in secularism. Therefore we’re trying to impose our religion on them.
It’s actually pretty amazing how much rhetorical nuance they can cram into their buzzwords.
Seems an appropriate comparison considering how many Americans pick up what little they know of history and the world outside the United States from Hollywood movies, even if it’s biblically-obsessed Old Hollywood figures like like DeMille.
Reminds me of a line from a late ’90s Gore Vidal essay on the Bill of Rights: “Apparently, it was Charlton Heston who brought the Second Amendment, along with handguns and child-friendly Uzis, down from Mount DeMille.”
Most of the statues and artifacts being destroyed by the religious folks are works of art – it may be religious art, but it has artistic merit (or architectural merit). Those Ten Commandment things are just plaques to hold writing, and ugly plaques at that.
They also don’t contain the full text of the Ten Commandments, nor are they the correct translation. And, when it comes down to it, the ten commandments aren’t set out from all the other commandments in that book of the Bible – the ten are just an arbitrary clip from a long list.
This is not one of the Ten Commandments monuments used to promote the 1956 movie. This one was erected in 2012 on the grounds of the Oklahoma state capitol. The state Supreme Court ruled 7-2 earlier this year that it violated the state constitution, which prohibits the use of state property to promote religion. Our governor and attorney general, a truly nasty pair of specimens, demanded a rehearing from the court, which was denied. It was removed during the night a few days ago, in order to minimize security problems. Governor Fallin is asking the legislature for a constitutional amendment to remove the “offending” clause from the state constitution.
The Radical Secularists seem to have a better appreciation of Health and Safety and are donned in the correct personal protective Equipment. Is that the difference? Do I win?