If he were American, he’d have to vote for Trump.
The #EU orchestrated Muslim Third World invasion of Europe is now seriously under way. 800000 for Germany. Watch the rape figures skyrocket.
— Pat Condell (@patcondell) September 8, 2015
Pharyngula
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
“Ugh” is an understatement.
I hate when they fear monger about rape even more when they do it about terrorism! They don’t give a fuck about rape the rest of the time, but suddenly women are the main concern and excuse for more bigotry.
Wow, almost forgot about him. 5 minutes on his twitter feed confirms he has now gone on full-on “omg flood of rapists and murders coming in” racist, happily re-tweeting Breitbart, UKIP, Sharia Watch UK,…
If it was the 1930s, this person would have wholeheartedly supported the refusal of the US to welcome Jewish refugees from Central Europe, many of which the, had to go back to their home country (and their death later on).
Beatrice,
Don’t forget LGBT people! Suddenly it is all “omg the mooslims are a danger to LGBT people” while not spending one second of their time actually sticking up for LGBT rights (or worse, actually working against those rights like most right-wing European political parties).
Who is this guy?
Very briefly, right at the start of my internet atheist life, I used to follow that guy. Pretty sure he was the first I stopped paying attention to. Even then, naïve as I was, he was transparent.
I wonder if there’s anyone I used to follow back then who hasn’t turned out to be a terrible role model?
@Beatrice, 2
Of course, it’s not the rape that’s upsetting. It’s that They are raping Our women… even if They aren’t any more guilty of that than the general population.
I can only guess he’s going to use them as cover?
beatrice
Property crime.
It’s not rape when white men do it.
There’s a distinct whiff of “the black men are comin’ for our white women!” going on there, and it’s pretty damn smelly.
I’m also getting a whiff of pleasure in that kind of statement, he’s not just fear mongering, he’s crowing.
If no other benefit can be had for his public ravings, it would be to demonstrate that while one’s own response to religious claims may be (or not be) based on reason, one is under no requirement to use reason (or evidence) for anything else: That is, self-identified atheists are or can be just as credulous and stupid — demonstrably — as homeopaths, spoon-benders, football fanatics, cult sectarians and, of course, hysterical fascists.
Just playing devil’s advocate here but perhaps he expects the Germans raping the refugees?
Was Condell always this much of a bigoted asshat, or did he have a stroke or something?
Who Him @ 13:
Oh FFS. Go away.
In arguments with theists it is usually the case that they do not make testable predictions about what they believe, here at least Pat Condell has made the claim that rape figures will “skyrocket” after Germany accepts 800000 refugees. I hope Condell will be honest enough to report what he finds when he does investigate German rape rates post accepting refugees.
You would think that someone used to arguing with theists would know that the first rule of adopting bat shit positions is not making claims that can be tested.
Yeah, just ignore the context of him stating that this is a Muslim invasion.
You know, I think the Devil just get’s a bad rap sometimes due to all the incompetent buffoons taking it upon themselves to be an advocate for him. If I were an evil demi-god they’d be on the short list for smiting.
Oh yeah, those atheist men.
Champions of western women if you can use them to further your neo fascist agenda against brown immigrants. Not so much if those women tell you where you can stuff your opinions.
Champions of muslim women if they can be used as a club against western women. Not so much if those muslim women refuse to take off their scarves as soon as they enter your country and occasionally give you a piece of their mind…
I remember how Condell linked to a source in one of his video descriptions that stated the exact opposite of what he claimed. His claim was that all rape in Sweden was done by muslims, the AI document said that Swedish women had a damn hard time being believed when the rapist was a nice white Swedish guy and not muslim.
Honestly, if he was the least bit honest, he’d recognize that the women and children refugees ARE more vulnerable to rape by the dominant society. They always have been. Why do these people always seem to imagine that these are huge, frightening hoards of men instead of families and starving people? There are pictures, seems unlikely that he didn’t see them.
Artor #14
I don’t know if he’s always been this way, but he’s been acting like this on YouTube for a long time.
mclarenm23 #6
Pat Condell is a right-wing British xenophobe atheist. Spends a lot of time ranting about how the scary muslims are going to invade Europe and take over everything when he’s not ranting about women or LGBT people. Like what you’d get if you took Richard Dawkins, removed all the science, and ramped up the asshole.
Giliell are you shitting me?
I was clearly mocking Condell and used an argument he has no doubt used against a theist many times to highlight Condell’s own stupidity.
He’s a guy who rants into a webcam.
16 @ Mclarenm23,
I don’t think he’s the sort of person that does silly things like ‘investigate to see whether his claims are true.’ – why, he might have to examine his ideas then! He doesn’t care about the refugees, or the Germans, or the potential violence, or whatever. He’s found that this fact he’s found is fairly club shaped, and that he can use it to batter on people he doesn’t agree with. That’s all that matters – there’s no concern for other people involved, nor is there concern for whether the facts are true, just that they’re useful. He doesn’t care about truth at all, just about winning. Incurious bastard.
mclarenm23
I wasn’t talking to you or about you. The world doesn’t revolve around you, so get over yourself.
@mclarenm23
A xenophobic fuckwit who tries to hide his Islamophobia behind his Atheism and spends his time ranting into a webcam and bringing shame on my country.
Did I say the world did revolve around me?
You will find that the more likely scenario is that on a discussion forum I made the mistake of thinking someone had made a post in reference to one of my posts, you know, kinda like a discussion.
I still don’t really see what point you were making and what it has to do with Condell?
I believe Gilliell was responding to Athywren at #7.
Savant
I agree, my post was sort of facetious/sarcastic, in that Condell has probably spent many hours bemoaning the lack of critical thinking among theists and yet he is happy to throw out wild claims about a diverse group of people being more rape inclined than another.
Does anyone else find right wing atheists even more frustrating to argue with than theists? A right wing atheist would appear to have lucked on a sound position (the rejection of a gods existence) as clearly they are not skeptics or rational thinkers, and what good is lucking out in one instance?
maclarenm23
If I had replied to you, I would have addressed you. So you misstook my general post as a reply to you and decided to yell a bit at me. Now you could say you were mistaken and that you are sorry, but that would be a surprise.
Well, you could have asked. I would have explained. You didn’t, so I guess you’ll have to figure it out yourself.
Thumper
I wasn’t replying to anybody
If I reply to somebody I use their nym and usually quote the relevant passages.
But isn’t rape supposed to be pro-life? I wish they’d make up thier minds.
Ah, early YouTube celebrity atheists Pat Condell and Phil Mason. It was interesting watching how quickly they got on the express train to Dipshitville, riding it like they were Major Kong on the bomb…
Giliell
Ok, here goes. Is there any chance you could explain post 18?
Who Him, #13
No, he doesn’t. You must not know anything about him or his views to think that. If you are familiar with him, then you must have terrible reading comprehension, because even someone unfamiliar with Condell would realize he means the Muslim refugees raping white European women (hint: “Muslim Third World invasion of Europe”). But thanks for playing.
Re: mclarenm23, #28
Not particularly. Every person is, if you will, a mosaic of stances on the uncountable issues that surround us. Maybe people like Condell stick out in your mind because, like him, you identify as atheist and this label is important to you. And perhaps feel that your atheism is what makes you a more reasonable and rational person when it actually does no such thing. In recent years the atheist community, such as it may be, has demonstrated again and again that its members are no more rational or reasonable than the members of any other community or interest-group.
As a label atheism is still something that presumably has some attraction to everyone here but for some of us it may be all we have in common. At least as far as Pat Condell is concerned I’m quite confident I share nothing with him other than my lack of religion. That’s actually one of my sunnier thoughts today.
Don’t.
maclarenm23
Yes, a snowball’s in hell.
Who the fuck do you think you are? You come here, you missunderstand my post (not a crime, something that happens) and instead of asking for clarifcation, you yell at me and now you’re acting as if that hadn’t happened and expect me to nicely explain things?
Here’s a lesson I’m teaching my kids which you apparently failed to learn: If you want something from other people, play nice.
Don’t forget, Richard Dawkins thinks Pat Condell has some right thoughts on Muslims. Or, am I misremembering some of the people Richard has supported in the past? However, I would think even Richard Dawkins would say, “Ugh!”
Donnie,
The Dawks has indeed supported Pat in the past, but I don’t know if this is still the case, and how much he still supports/promotes him.
Giliell
I guess post 18 will have remain a mystery to us all.
Pat Condell sort of was my introduction to online atheist activism. I quickly tired of him, and have never looked back. Life’s too short.
#39:
All but one, then. I understand (I think I do) perfectly what xe means. Nothing to do with you, much to do with Pat Condell.
Somehow, I’ve managed to go several months without even thinking about him. Wonder what he’s up to. I’m just taking a moment to search for him on YouTube and take a look at some of his latest masterpieces.
Hmm.
Comedians and UKIP, in which he endorses UKIP.
How to Insult a Progressive. Skipping through the video, apparently this is accomplished by telling us how horrible Islam is.
Goodbye to the First Amendment. Where he expresses concern about how some Americans want to see hate speech laws. Fair enough, I guess, but he also conflates free speech with saying shitty things and expecting people not to complain about it.
We Have a Democracy Problem. More UKIP stuff.
I’m already tired of this.
mclarenm23 @39
Only for you, cupcake.
mclarenm23, #39
Holy shit, she’s very clearly talking about people like Pat Condell and Dawkins!
re zenlike@5:
QFT
In addition: the anti-LGBT activists use the dangerous Mooslims as justification for denying those rights, , they’ll say.
One of those fallacious justifications: “X is okay, cuz Y is worse than X”, no matter how awful X actually is.
Speak for yourself, mclarenm23 @39. Though I suspect you are just being obstinate at this point, I’ll assume that you are just dense when I say:
Giliell @18 is wicked-easy to understand. To do so, fist assume that Giliell isn’t referring to any other person on this thread, and then read the comment again. Boom, that should do it.
But, if not …
It’s pretty clear that Gillell is referring to atheist men like Condell (see also: Dawkins, et al) who act as though they are champions of women, except when they aren’t, which is pretty much all the time except when women are treated heinously by theists, at which time the women are used as a convenient tool to bash said theists.
Did you really not understand that?
I’m getting that feeling I get when my niece is being told off for something, and she looks at me as if to say, “you’ve got my back, right?”
mclarenm23, all I can say is that it’s not in code. The words of post 18 are literally saying what they literally say. Although I have to admit, you’ve got me looking for secret messages in it. Read it again without assuming it’s aimed at you, and even if you don’t recognise the events being referenced, you should at least understand what’s being said.
Cndll s cnfsd bt th 800,000 rpsts tht Grmny s lttng n. H ws thnkng bt Mxcns.
Don’t worry I get that Giliell is saying that some people pick and choose when to support a cause depending on how it suits there agenda. But why start the post by singling out the “atheist” identification?
mclarenm23,
Because Pat Condell is an atheist, and he is not the first one to show that being an atheist (or at least a famous atheist) unfortuntely has more significant correlation with being a smug asshole than with being genuinely progressive.
Athywren
You gotta get text to speech to say it backwards, but only every other word,then the left out words twice, but at triple speed.
mclarenm23
Sorry for inserting a’s into your name
Because I was talking about atheist men and their hypocrisy. Very easy.
mclarenm23:
Jesus fuck, speak for yourself alone. I understood Giliell’s post perfectly. As for the atheist ID, most of the people here are atheists, and most of the atheists here are pretty fucking tired of the so-called leaders of atheism, men who hold a great many repugnant thoughts and attitudes.*
Can we stop talking about you now?
* If you bothered to read and comprehend what other people have written in this thread, you may have noted a number of people mentioning that Condell was their intro into online atheism.
Even if German rape figures trebled they’d still be less than in the USA.
I’ve never known Condell as anything but a bigoted asshat, so I cannot say this surprises me. I do not believe for a second that he gives a damn about rape. This is about trying to score points, it is a convenient topic that will appeal to the all too common fear that those bad other people are raping OUR women. Just a bit of “benevolent sexism”.
This also fits with the other narrative I’ve noticed:
Bigots seem to be terribly keen on pointing out that a large number of refugees we usually see on videos and photographs are young men.
They usually don’t explain why that’s problematic, only vaguely mumble about how those men could have fought instead of running and how it would be expected that more refugees were old people ,women and children.
Of course, then they continue about Muslims having a lot of children, so I suppose women are scary too.
It couldn’t possibly be racism could it?
Hey Giliell,
Was he yelling at you or is there a chance it was a case of miscommunication (NSFW)?
beatrice
The “aging population” masks are falling off and the “white women must pop out more white babies” faces are coming to light.
Because if you’re complaining about an aging society, then young people and young families coming into the country should be a Good Thing. I know Germany’s capitalist elites are already smelling money.
Today I read a very stupid comment in the German “Welt” about how we’Re doing it all WRONG because we did it all WRONG already back in the 50s and 60s. Because the people were uneducted (and now there are 20% illiterates among the refugees. Clearly, being able to read and write should be prerequisite for claiming asylum) and their jobs were lost to autimatisation, which lead to a “Sozialstaatsunterschicht” (wellfare state lower class), blowing the “living off our money” dogwhistle. (and they’re terrorists and they’re just not economically useful)
Why anyone would find anything mysterious about Post #18 is a mystery to me.
Maybe if I send a letter to Box 13, Alan Ladd will find it intriguing and start nosing around.
Maybe we can stop talking about my post #18 now?
‘kay?
Let’s get back on topic.
The lovely person who left a turd on Facebook about how papa Kurdi had no teeth and this means he’s not a refugee (to which I tried to respond with logic, and was told “you just don’t understand”) has now left a turd on the same social network about how some alleged terrorist got arrested after coming in on a boat. Citation: a blog calling itself “The Muslim Issue”.
I decided not to reply with logic this time.
I recommend you do NOT look up that blog.
You don’t get it: they do give a fuck about rape: they’re totally okay with it so long as it’s a rich guy doing it to a plebeian.
***
Because, ever since we invented social hierarchies, members of the hegemon have always dreaded that one day the oppressed would rise up, succeed in their revolution, and treat their erstwhile masters as shittily as said masters used to treat them.
Congratulations Pat. You’ve successfully othered every one of the refugees fleeing their countries. Refugees who are trying to stay alive. Parents who don’t…can’t…raise their families in a war torn region. Mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, sons, daughters, husbands, wives…PEOPLE, all of them. People just like you in far more ways than they are different. People who want many of the same things you do. People who are suffering and don’t want to continue suffering. People who have to deal with constant strife. Constant chaos. People who are trying to reach some place better. Some place safer. And many of them are dying in the process.
My god, how can you read stories about refugees dying in the ocean, or turned away at borders, or washing up on beaches, risking their lives just so they and their loved ones can find safe haven…and not be moved?!
How can you look at images of dead children and not be horrified?!
Oh, wait. I know how you can-when you’ve managed to distance yourself from them. When you look at other humans and think “They aren’t humans. They’re nothing like me. They’re something else.”
Fucking people like Pat Condell are vile scumbags who are so deficient in empathy and compassion for others it’s scary. Because we have seen what happens when humans are not shown empathy and compassion. We’ve seen what happens when people are denied their rights. We’ve seen what happens when people are dehumanized and treated as subhumans.
Atrocities happen and are rationalized.
Human rights abuses occur.
Human beings suffer and human beings die.
Fuck you Condell. And every one of the people who thinks like you.
Is this asspimple talking about Syrian refugees?
I just want to pass this on; something to think about when some no-mind pipes up about refugees just wanting to come and “live off the taxpayers.”
“HOME,” by Somali poet Warsan Shire:
no one leaves home unless
home is the mouth of a shark
you only run for the border
when you see the whole city running as well
your neighbours running faster than you
breath bloody in their throats
the boy you went to school with
who kissed you dizzy behind the old tin factory
is holding a gun bigger than his body
you only leave home
when home won’t let you stay.
no one leaves home unless home chases you
fire under feet
hot blood in your belly
it’s not something you ever thought of doing
until the blade burnt threats into
your neck
and even then you carried the anthem under
your breath
only tearing up your passport in an airport toilets
sobbing as each mouthful of paper
made it clear that you wouldn’t be going back.
you have to understand,
that no one puts their children in a boat
unless the water is safer than the land
no one burns their palms
under trains
beneath carriages
no one spends days and nights in the stomach of a truck
feeding on newspaper unless the miles travelled
means something more than journey.
no one crawls under fences
no one wants to be beaten
pitied
no one chooses refugee camps
or strip searches where your
body is left aching
or prison,
because prison is safer
than a city of fire
and one prison guard
in the night
is better than a truckload
of men who look like your father
no one could take it
no one could stomach it
no one skin would be tough enough
the
go home blacks
refugees
dirty immigrants
asylum seekers
sucking our country dry
niggers with their hands out
they smell strange
savage
messed up their country and now they want
to mess ours up
how do the words
the dirty looks
roll off your backs
maybe because the blow is softer
than a limb torn off
or the words are more tender
than fourteen men between
your legs
or the insults are easier
to swallow
than rubble
than bone
than your child body
in pieces.
i want to go home,
but home is the mouth of a shark
home is the barrel of the gun
and no one would leave home
unless home chased you to the shore
unless home told you
to quicken your legs
leave your clothes behind
crawl through the desert
wade through the oceans
drown
save
be hunger
beg
forget pride
your survival is more important
no one leaves home until home is a sweaty voice in your ear
saying-
leave,
run away from me now
i dont know what i’ve become
but i know that anywhere
is safer than here.
Here’s something to think about whenever you heard some no-mind blather on about refugees just “leaving their home country to live off us taxpayers”.
“HOME,” by Somali poet Warsan Shire:
no one leaves home unless
home is the mouth of a shark
you only run for the border
when you see the whole city running as well
your neighbours running faster than you
breath bloody in their throats
the boy you went to school with
who kissed you dizzy behind the old tin factory
is holding a gun bigger than his body
you only leave home
when home won’t let you stay.
no one leaves home unless home chases you
fire under feet
hot blood in your belly
it’s not something you ever thought of doing
until the blade burnt threats into
your neck
and even then you carried the anthem under
your breath
only tearing up your passport in an airport toilets
sobbing as each mouthful of paper
made it clear that you wouldn’t be going back.
you have to understand,
that no one puts their children in a boat
unless the water is safer than the land
no one burns their palms
under trains
beneath carriages
no one spends days and nights in the stomach of a truck
feeding on newspaper unless the miles travelled
means something more than journey.
no one crawls under fences
no one wants to be beaten
pitied
no one chooses refugee camps
or strip searches where your
body is left aching
or prison,
because prison is safer
than a city of fire
and one prison guard
in the night
is better than a truckload
of men who look like your father
no one could take it
no one could stomach it
no one skin would be tough enough
the
go home blacks
refugees
dirty immigrants
asylum seekers
sucking our country dry
niggers with their hands out
they smell strange
savage
messed up their country and now they want
to mess ours up
how do the words
the dirty looks
roll off your backs
maybe because the blow is softer
than a limb torn off
or the words are more tender
than fourteen men between
your legs
or the insults are easier
to swallow
than rubble
than bone
than your child body
in pieces.
i want to go home,
but home is the mouth of a shark
home is the barrel of the gun
and no one would leave home
unless home chased you to the shore
unless home told you
to quicken your legs
leave your clothes behind
crawl through the desert
wade through the oceans
drown
save
be hunger
beg
forget pride
your survival is more important
no one leaves home until home is a sweaty voice in your ear
saying-
leave,
run away from me now
i dont know what i’ve become
but i know that anywhere
is safer than here.
This is a test.
Posted without comment
“HOME,” by Somali poet Warsan Shire:
no one leaves home unless
home is the mouth of a shark
you only run for the border
when you see the whole city running as well
your neighbours running faster than you
breath bloody in their throats
the boy you went to school with
who kissed you dizzy behind the old tin factory
is holding a gun bigger than his body
you only leave home
when home won’t let you stay.
no one leaves home unless home chases you
fire under feet
hot blood in your belly
it’s not something you ever thought of doing
until the blade burnt threats into
your neck
and even then you carried the anthem under
your breath
only tearing up your passport in an airport toilets
sobbing as each mouthful of paper
made it clear that you wouldn’t be going back.
you have to understand,
that no one puts their children in a boat
unless the water is safer than the land
no one burns their palms
under trains
beneath carriages
no one spends days and nights in the stomach of a truck
feeding on newspaper unless the miles travelled
means something more than journey.
no one crawls under fences
no one wants to be beaten
pitied
no one chooses refugee camps
or strip searches where your
body is left aching
or prison,
because prison is safer
than a city of fire
and one prison guard
in the night
is better than a truckload
of men who look like your father
no one could take it
no one could stomach it
no one skin would be tough enough
the
go home blacks
refugees
dirty immigrants
asylum seekers
sucking our country dry
niggers with their hands out
they smell strange
savage
messed up their country and now they want
to mess ours up
how do the words
the dirty looks
roll off your backs
maybe because the blow is softer
than a limb torn off
or the words are more tender
than fourteen men between
your legs
or the insults are easier
to swallow
than rubble
than bone
than your child body
in pieces.
i want to go home,
but home is the mouth of a shark
home is the barrel of the gun
and no one would leave home
unless home chased you to the shore
unless home told you
to quicken your legs
leave your clothes behind
crawl through the desert
wade through the oceans
drown
save
be hunger
beg
forget pride
your survival is more important
no one leaves home until home is a sweaty voice in your ear
saying-
leave,
run away from me now
i dont know what i’ve become
but i know that anywhere
is safer than here.
Wotinheck is going on?
I was trying to post an eloquent poem by an Ethiopian poet, about the horrible reasons people become refugees, and the thing won’t post!
“HOME,” by Somali poet Warsan Shire:
no one leaves home unless
home is the mouth of a shark
you only run for the border
when you see the whole city running as well
your neighbours running faster than you
breath bloody in their throats
the boy you went to school with
who kissed you dizzy behind the old tin factory
is holding a gun bigger than his body
you only leave home
when home won’t let you stay.
no one leaves home unless home chases you
fire under feet
hot blood in your belly
it’s not something you ever thought of doing
until the blade burnt threats into
your neck
and even then you carried the anthem under
your breath
only tearing up your passport in an airport toilets
sobbing as each mouthful of paper
made it clear that you wouldn’t be going back.
you have to understand,
that no one puts their children in a boat
unless the water is safer than the land
no one burns their palms
under trains
beneath carriages
no one spends days and nights in the stomach of a truck
feeding on newspaper unless the miles travelled
means something more than journey.
no one crawls under fences
no one wants to be beaten
pitied
no one chooses refugee camps
or strip searches where your
body is left aching
or prison,
because prison is safer
than a city of fire
and one prison guard
in the night
is better than a truckload
of men who look like your father
no one could take it
no one could stomach it
no one skin would be tough enough
the
go home blacks
refugees
dirty immigrants
asylum seekers
sucking our country dry
niggers with their hands out
they smell strange
savage
messed up their country and now they want
to mess ours up
how do the words
the dirty looks
roll off your backs
maybe because the blow is softer
than a limb torn off
or the words are more tender
than fourteen men between
your legs
or the insults are easier
to swallow
than rubble
than bone
than your child body
in pieces.
i want to go home,
but home is the mouth of a shark
home is the barrel of the gun
and no one would leave home
unless home chased you to the shore
unless home told you
to quicken your legs
leave your clothes behind
crawl through the desert
wade through the oceans
drown
save
be hunger
beg
forget pride
your survival is more important
no one leaves home until home is a sweaty voice in your ear
saying-
leave,
run away from me now
i dont know what i’ve become
but i know that anywhere
is safer than here.
Aha, unpleasant words in the poem, which I have censored:
PART ONE
“HOME,” by Somali poet Warsan Shire:
no one leaves home unless
home is the mouth of a shark
you only run for the border
when you see the whole city running as well
your neighbours running faster than you
breath bloody in their throats
the boy you went to school with
who kissed you dizzy behind the old tin factory
is holding a gun bigger than his body
you only leave home
when home won’t let you stay.
no one leaves home unless home chases you
fire under feet
hot blood in your belly
it’s not something you ever thought of doing
until the blade burnt threats into
your neck
and even then you carried the anthem under
your breath
only tearing up your passport in an airport toilets
sobbing as each mouthful of paper
made it clear that you wouldn’t be going back.
you have to understand,
that no one puts their children in a boat
unless the water is safer than the land
no one burns their palms
under trains
beneath carriages
no one spends days and nights in the stomach of a truck
feeding on newspaper unless the miles travelled
means something more than journey.
no one crawls under fences
no one wants to be beaten
pitied
no one chooses refugee camps
or strip searches where your
body is left aching
or prison,
because prison is safer
than a city of fire
and one prison guard
in the night
is better than a truckload
of men who look like your father
no one could take it
no one could stomach it
no one skin would be tough enough
the
go home blacks
refugees
dirty immigrants
asylum seekers
sucking our country dry
n*ggers with their hands out
they smell strange
savage
messed up their country and now they want
to mess ours up
how do the words
the dirty looks
roll off your backs
maybe because the blow is softer
than a limb torn off
or the words are more tender
than fourteen men between
your legs
or the insults are easier
to swallow
than rubble
than bone
than your child body
in pieces.
i want to go home,
but home is the mouth of a shark
home is the barrel of the gun
and no one would leave home
unless home chased you to the shore
unless home told you
to quicken your legs
leave your clothes behind
crawl through the desert
wade through the oceans
drown
save
be hunger
beg
forget pride
your survival is more important
no one leaves home until home is a sweaty voice in your ear
saying-
leave,
run away from me now
i dont know what i’ve become
but i know that anywhere
is safer than here.
Thank you for posting that poem, Hairhead. I just wish everyone understood the obvious truth it states, that no one puts themselves through such horrors unless worse horrors drive them to it.
Is there a Part II coming along?
Poignant poem, Hairhead. Refugees deserve empathy. I emigrated to the US to go to grad school. That was so easy compared to fleeing your country without any guarantee that you’ll even survive and reach a safe and welcoming destination.
Condell is nothing but a racist. I don’t get what joy he achieves by kicking people when they are down.
Echoing the appreciation of others Hairhead. Thank you for that. As leerudolph inquired, is there a Part 2?
kayden @68:
I don’t think it’s joy he feels. In his racist Tweet, he makes a sweeping generalization of hundreds of thousands of refugees. That generalization treats all of them as nameless, faceless criminals. He doesn’t see them as individuals. He doesn’t see them as children and their parents. He doesn’t see them as husbands and wives. He doesn’t see the atrocities they’re going through. Or perhaps he does see what they’re going through, but simply doesn’t care. In either case, he views neither them nor what they’re going through as anything of concern. In his eyes, he doesn’t need to concern himself with “those people”. To him, people from the Middle East are beneath him.
He’s helping foster a climate of hate and bigotry by referring to refugees as invading hordes of brown men coming rape the white man’s women. This is the same kind of rhetoric used by the KKK and other white supremacists when they chased down and lynched African-American men in the late 19th century and more than half of the 20th Century. Black men were treated as beasts with an insatiable hunger for white women. They were characterized as animals driven by a desire to hunt down and rape white women. As a result, those women needed the protection of white men who were only too happy to appear as their saviors, but who acted more as their masters seeking to protect their property. In that role, they justified their actions as protecting white women from savage subhuman mongrels. Facts and evidence didn’t matter to them. They didn’t care that black men weren’t roaming the countryside looking for white women to rape. They didn’t care that their fears were manufactured. They wanted to maintain their power and dominance over both black people and white women.
Condell might not be the type of person to lynch anyone, but he’s speaking the same language as the people who are. Between that and his many followers, he’s a dangerous, scary man.
Yep bring in all those Muslim women and children that have been raped by the godless hordes of ISIS. That’ll boost the statistics.
@garydargan
“godless”?
I apologize to all for the multiple posts.
It seems that the single “n*gger” held the post for moderation but — duh! — I didn’t realize it and just tried again and again to post.
And I am sorry to say that there is no Part Two. I named it Part One because I was going to post 1/2 of it to see if it got through, then found the offending word and asterisked it, then didn’t take out Part One.
Hell of a fine poem, though, and thx for the recognition. I have worked with immigrants for 25 years, and they are just, well, people like us here. The differences though they exist, are far less than the similarities between us all.
sorry for the inelegant phrasing, tired and its late.
Hairhead
Thank you for posting that
THe repeated references to rape in war brings me to another point:
Those guys are totally OK with the rape of countless muslim women and children because it serves their point as well. Then they can point he finger and say “look at those evil brown people, all rapists!”
But of course they won’t let the people threatened come here where they’re safe. Too many brown people and, didn’t you know, all rapists.
my daughter’s friend is a refugee from Syria. She’s 10 years old. What do people think would happen to her if she were caught by the IS? Or the other girls in the daycare? F, R? What would happen to their brothers, cute as a button primary school kids?
Fuck you Condell and all like you. Your mindless brown hordes invading Europe are my neigbours, our friends, family. My cousin married a man from Syria more than 20 years ago. He’s a chief surgeon at a hospital. His older son is studying medicine here.
He got his parents to Egypt at the start of the war and thanks to him, they can live there, something impossible for most refugees ’cause they’re not allowed to work there.
Tony
Nooo, Condell wouldn’t personally lynch anybody. He’d just go “haven’t you heard” and “You know how they are” and then put finest hemp rope on sale. Afterwards he’d look indignated and say “Who? Me????”
This crisis is more or less a test of how well we, Europeans, live up to the ideals we so loudly proclaim. We are failing, unfortunately.
It also brought out the worst in people who should know better while giving a huge boost to the racist extreme-right. At least now I know what to expect. :-(
I’d say that it’s more a test of whether we, decent Europeans, will allow racist douches to bully us into submission or not.
Condell wasn’t this xenophobic in his early days, or at least not openly. I quite enjoyed his video rants. Another one falling from his pedestal.
I’m from Germany and it seems that so far the refugees are behaving reasonably well. Which is more than can be said for various local right-wing extremists who apparently think it’s a great idea to try to set fire to the buildings where the refugees live.
I case anybody might be within reach of this: demo in London this Saturday 12th, calling on govt. to welcome refugees (starting at noon, at Marble Arch).
(eh, if you’re anywhere near you probably already knew about it of course!)
That is a very poignant and important poem Hairhead. It is more than deserving of being posted many times. If only racist bigots like Condell actually had the capacity to read and comprehend it.
@ Gilliell #29
Sorry; what you said seemed to follow directly on from what Athywren said. Not so much a reply as a continuation of the same theme. I was just trying to clear up confusion, but shouldn’t have stuck my oar in.
Absolutely disgusting video of a camerawoman tripping a refugee who was carrying a little child. She appears about 8 seconds into the video (light blue shirt and jeans).
In this longer clip [CNN], you can see her kicking and tripping another person.
Condell is still around? Is Dawkins still gleefully endorsing him?
@rietpluim
I quite enjoyed some of his early stuff too, but then I realised that I was just an arsehole. I’m not suggesting you’re an arsehole too, I’m saying that I’m not convinced he’s changed all that much.
Saad
According to Twitter she’s been fired. Of course she should be in jail as well, but that would mean Hungary would have to acknowledge that refugees are people who can be assaulted…
+++
And in more bad news, last night two more refugee homes to be burned, one near where I live. Thankfully nobody was hurt.
Just watched that, wished I hadn’t.
Disgusting doesn’t quite suffice to describe this behaviour, but I I can’t think of anything better, really. How about “SS-grade sub-human” ?
It would seem that Fox has friends in Hungary…
quotetheunquote,
Please don’t call anyone subhuman.
I guess he is trying to turn back time.
To paraphrase Stalin
Since we (as in Europe) treated the stream of refugees from Libya and Syria (Thanks Obama) as a statistic until that one photo of the body of the 3 year old Aylan Kurdi woke people up that there is a real tragedy behind the statistic.
As the xenophobe he is, he is trying to turn back the perception to it is just a statistic again.
Doubt it is going to work, especially seeing the reported reaction in Germany.
rietpluim
I have a different hypothesis (though Condell has become worse. I would have recognized thisa s racist fearmongering 5 years ago as well): We have grown. 5 years ago I would have cheered many anti-islam sentiments without realising the hypocrisy and racism. And I wouldn’t have noticed many dogwhistles. Many things happened since.
quotetheunquote @ 91:
Disgusting, appalling, abhorrent, repulsive, repugnant, those all do the trick. Subhuman doesn’t, nor does SS-grade. Othering never helps, especially when those disgusting bigots are all about othering.
Well, there you have it.
@Giliell #94 That’s remarkably honest of you.
@latsot #89 Not an arsehole but gullible perhaps? Anyway I don’t feel like watching and comparing his videos to see if there was less xenophobia in the older ones.
Small personal story here:
Back in 1991 I was working in Vancouver, BC, for an immigrant-serving agency. A bunch of us employees were sitting around the lunch table one day, and I was listening to all of the white Canadian women there (long, but different story there) talk about the political-refugee program, how terrible the Canadian gov’t was treating them, how racist the Canadian public was, how our government was the same as the Communist regimes, etc. etc. This went on until one of our program assistants, a middle-aged Polish woman, interrupted. (Imagine the following with a thick Polish accent.)
“You people don’t know what you talk about! Back in Poland I had Master’s Degree, was principal of a school, two thousand students. My husband was engineer, building bridges. Now I work in this little office, and my husband, he is setting tiles. And you know what? We are HAPPY! You don’t know what you have!”
Then she got up and left. That’s why, whenever I meet an immigrant, I ask, “What do you miss about your country of birth? What do you not miss? What’s the worst thing about Canada? What’s the best thing?” The answers are always illuminating.
Cannot agree with every opinion above. When a person does a revolting, abhorrent, etc. act, for the simple expedient of getting a good piece of footage, that person is chipping away at their humanity, lowering him or herself. As I would be, if I did it.
“Othering” is not a word I recognize as useful in discourse – I am characterizing, just as anyone might.
“the”
quotetheunquote:
Then you’re part of the problem.
Hairhead
I’m not sure if I agree with that argument. Clearly, refugees often compare their situation now with their situation before and don’t realise that they’re getting short-changed. I think you can see this in the current enthusiasm for Germany. As a German I see how their treatment is often horrible, how their lodgings are completely inadequate.
Well, I’ve also seen the pictures of wheret hey come from, and what they have to endure to get here. I’ve seen the pictures from Hungary. If you’ve been through all of that, then probably some shelter with no bombs, with running water, toilets and police officers who don’t beat you makes you happy.
And now Denmark is closing its borders.
the refugees don’t even want to stay in Denmark but get to their families in Sweden.
Well, we Danes do have experience shipping undesirables to Sweden.
It just has to be *our* undesirables.
(And we prefer it, if we can fleece them in the process. Paupers need not apply.)
Aaaaaand, that’s where I deeply regret that the EU didn’t merge its nations’ military into a single organization under the parliament’s control, so Schulz & Junker could pull a Little Rock Nine:
“So you enjoy being a bunch of proud racist douches? Well, let’s see how far you’re willing to go against refugees escorted by a thousand guns“
quotetheunquote @100:
It’s a very useful term. It describes exactly what people like Pat Condell are doing when they dehumanize people. They see them as the ‘other’. As something not like them. As something less than them. As something unworthy of respect or basic human rights. Perhaps you should explore the term and how it applies to the actions of extremists before you dismiss it.
laurentweppe
OTOH, I’m not sure how many more countries we’d have bombed in the meantime if we did.
What is it with the anti-immigrant types and the accusations that immigrants are going to rape everyone? It’s such a specific accusation and, as far as I can tell, completely unsupported. Almost like they’re projecting their own tendencies onto the “others”…
Another hypothesis that poped in my mind regarding bigots warning about rape.
It’s not just general fear-mongering, it’s really pointed. They don’t want us to “mix” with the refugees. If we all mix, marriages will follow – interfaith and interracial. With warnings about rape, they want to plant a seed of doubt so that “their” women would stay away and not interract let alone have sex or start relationships with “those” men. Women are already well aware of the dangers of rape, and we are continuously bombarded with more or less well meant advice on how to protect ourselves, so this can easily and unconsciously be absorbed with the rest.
In the last decade we’ve already waged war in Mali, in Iraq (twice when it comes to the Brits, Poles, Italians & Spaniards), in Syria, in Afghanistan, in Libya (good call, even if the aftermath is a mess: allowing Gaddafi to slaughter the Cyrenaica would have been worse) and we’re helping Ukraine against Russia. Europe’s already mired in a bunch of messy wars, which means that in the end we have all the drawbacks of an unified army without any of the advantages
Thanks, U.S., by the way for messing up the Middle East and training the militant muslims for decades. Now we in Europe have to pay your bill.
Haven’t seen Pat Condells videos in a while; but after watching a few of his newer ones I must say that 95% of what he says is true.
Sounds like 95% bullshit.
Out of morbid curiosity, I watched the latest video of Pat. Couldn’t make it further than a couple of minutes in.
What I learned: UKIP = good. Criticisms of UKIP = bad. Comedians who attack UKIP are bigots and whores.
I guess that falls under the “5%” which is incorrect, but it didn’t really invite me to watch anything further to discover the correct 95%.
johannes9126, #112
Great. The sexism defender also turns out to be an anti-Muslim bigot. What a surprise.