He doesn’t like it, not one bit, no sir.
This ruling by the Supreme Court in regard to gay “marriage” is actually going to fundamentally change the culture in America and apart from a miracle of God—a special movement of God—this is going to be basically an irreversible situation. And I really believe that to understand what is happening to America now, read Romans chapter 1. That is really a picture of what is going on. We’re going to see increased persecution against Christians; we’re going to see increased antagonism toward Christianity. We’re going to see the restriction of the free exercise of religion, freedom of religion, and free speech in this nation, particularly in regard to Christianity. I believe we’re going to see the government move against Christian churches, colleges, institutions, and organizations that take a stand on biblical marriage as God commands us to in the Bible going back to the book of Genesis.
As Jesus stated in Matthew, “Have ye not read, that He that made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘For this cause shall a man leave father and mother and shall cleave to his wife, and the two shall be one flesh’? Therefore they are no more two, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder” (Matthew 19:4–7).
You know, the only thing that’s going to get restricted is intolerance and oppression. If you want to equate those with Christianity, fine with me!
By the way, I have read Romans 1. It’s an unpleasant bit of extortion, raving about the “wrath of God”.
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
He’s basically saying we all deserve to die. Yeah, it’s going to get ugly.
The apostle Paul was such a nasty asshole.
Well, it’s always been official Christian doctrine that we all “deserve” to die. That was one reason I left the church in my teens.
Does that ever bring up some unpleasant imagery. Ham’s shift from “a miracle from God” to an “er, I really mean that people will have to act as God’s bowels here…” is so graceless, almost a blatant confession that there is no God behind the curtain.
Maybe we can get the lying fuckwit to go back to Australia.
Scalia is losing his shit over the decision
All those tears of the bigots are a nice bonus, for sure.
Thanks Ham for showing us just how full of bigotry your mind, and your book of mythology fiction are. You chose to believe in bigotry of that fallacious book. You can stop believing in that book of mythology/fiction at any time, and you will become a better person for doing so.
Well, to be fair, I think we can all agree that the Romans were pretty terrible. With Paul, it’s a case of a stopped clock being right twice a day, but it doesn’t seem like Ken Ham can even manage that.
“In case you were wondering what Ken Ham thinks of “…
Nope. Not at all. Not even a little bit.
Na na na na naaaaaaaa naaaaaa .
Suck it.
Notice how subtly God works. Don’t like God? God will harden your heart and give you over to all manner of immoral, illegal, and fattening behaviors, then resurrect and reanimate your corpse so he can set you on fire.
He was arguably nicer in the Hebrew Scriptures, where he just hardened Pharaoh’s heart and killed all the firstborn males. At least he didn’t stack them like cordwood and burn them forever.
“a special movement of God?” That’s a weird choice of words even by religious-bullshit standards. Is their god going to have a “special movement” all over the Supreme Court? What does Ham even mean by that?
You know what, no one that I know intends to or needs to persecute Christians. No one intends to restrict the free exercise of religion with the exception of saying, “No” to religious exercise that restricts the rights of others.
We don’t have to actively work to restrict or to diminish religion. Religions are doing a fine job of that themselves. Religious doofuses like Ken Ham adopt such His-Assholiness attitudes that people all over the world choose to diminish the influence of religion in their lives day by day.
Will Ham be joining Mike Huckabee in his ‘civil disobedience’ in the face of this ruling?
I’m still trying to figure out exactly what this ‘civil disobedience’ will look like. If it involves copious whining, well, have at at it, Ham.
https://www.facebook.com/BFF
I really, truly hope he’s right about that; both on the change in culture and the irreversibility of it.
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
First those bigots say homosexuality is a “choice;” then they quote this incoherent nonsense, which strongly implies that homosexuality (along with all manner of other evils) is something God makes you do!
It’s not just “ex-gay therapy” that’s a con — it’s the whole anti-gay crusade.
“a
specialbowel movement of God”sundiver @3:
I don’t really want to subject them to Ham any more than I want us to continue being subjected to him. Say, isn’t the LOST island available?
So now we start the pool. How many months/years until the denominations against equality yesterday come out and say they were for it all the time? Just like they did with slavery.
They use this line repeatedly:
,
yet NEVER use it as argument against divorce.
Always say gay marriage will destroy “sacred” marriage, yet never mention divorce.
Except gleefully looking at the first attempt at a gay couple to get a legal divorce, and then flinging the “…let not man put asunder” clause at them. , essentially.
Maybe the Hamster will be so disgusted he’ll move back to Australia. The threat of civil disturbance over this decision is troubling. I’m sure there will be outrage in some quarters.
consciousness razor — “I think we can all agree that the Romans were pretty terrible.” I’m not sure I would agree with that, at least not particular to Romans given that all people can be pretty terrible. From what I’ve read the Romans were fairly typical for their day, but relatively conservative and moralistic compared to some. Plus, we have to be careful because much of what we know about Romans comes through the filter of centuries of Christian revisionism. The original Christian persecution myth involved the Romans you know.
They’re not going to like being ignored…
jd142 @19:
I wonder how it went following the end of the ban on interracial marriage.
It strikes me as very fitting that he used Comic Sans to write his opinion.
Tony — I heard railings from pulpits in the South about the evils of interracial marriage, in the usual coded language of course, until I quit going to church in 1969. I suspect you could still hear it today, and you may well hear more of it with this decision. You know, it’s the “slippery slope” argument.
Just imagine. The negligible percentage of the already small 3-4% of homosexuals in the US who may choose to marry is capable of shaking this “Great Nation” to its very foundations.
Wow!
My same-sex partner and I have been together since 1994. We got married in California in 2008 when it became legal there. I’ve already heard from several evangelical friends and relatives saying that they don’t agree with the decision but they nevertheless wish me and my husband well, and I suspect they are far more representative of the majority of Christians than are Ken Hamm and Mike Huckabee.
I watched this same dynamic happen with race. Fifty years from now, evangelical Christians will be claiming it’s a vile slander that they ever opposed gay marriage, just like today, many evangelical Christians deny that their churches ever supported Jim Crow, even though the historical record couldn’t be clearer that a lot of Southern churches did. (In fairness, other Christians like Martin Luther King opposed Jim Crow because of their faith, so faith can cut both ways.)
I guess their god isn’t powerful enough to stop marriage equality (Iron Chariots, anyone?)… or she doesn’t care.
I’ve already sent notice to all my friends who have been living in sin that I’ll be expecting invitations to their upcoming nuptials (even if they only send me ‘courtesy’ invites).
So far as I have seen, churches have remained free to refuse to marry divorced individuals, although the law does not prevent divorced individuals from getting remarried. Churches can refuse to marry people on nearly every possible reason; those people go somewhere else, maybe not happily, but the church is not required to marry anyone against their own dogma.
When my husbands church wouldn’t marry us because I had been divorced, and also wouldn’t have married us the way we wanted because it was during Lent so we could have no flowers, songs, etc, to distract from the Lord, I actually breathed a sigh of relief. I didn’t want to get married in church; I wanted to get married by the side of Salt Creek, the same place we got engaged. And I didn’t want to fuss about it, I wanted it to be a decision both of us were happy with. Thanks to the narrow mindedness of my husband’s church (spewing a conservative religious dogma he didn’t even agree with – he calls himself a “non-theist”), we got married happily by the side of Salt Creek.
Well, yeah. And the god nonsense is easy to ignore.
In case you were wondering what mormon leaders thought of the SCOTUS ruling:
From the comments associated with a Salt Lake Tribune article:
At no point does the Bible condemn same sex marriage. It does condemn gay sex, but marriage isn’t mentioned at all. I’ve been to dozens of weddings in many different faiths, and at no time was the focus on the sex. Now, I’ve never been to a same-sex marriage, but I doubt theyv’e added a ritual orgy to the order of service.
My wife & I had been living together for years before we got married, yet nobody who we approached to provide services turned us down because we were unrepentant sinners. It’s not like they didn’t know – every contract we signed had spaces for us both to put our contact info, and every time we put the same address and phone number. Hell, according to my dad’s (RC) church, we are still not considered religiously married, but absolutely no one has given us grief about that.
Marriage has ALWAYS and EVERYWHERE been a union between one man and one woman, except in all those times and places where it hasn’t been! This is the first time anything has changed from the way it was before!
KSL in Utah posted the Associated Press story of the SCOTUS ruling. Lots of locals commented, including many that are obviously mormon. These doofuses could give Ken Ham a run for his money when it comes to cluelessness and intolerance.
So, there’s an icky sampling of rightwing conservative religious thought. Yuck.
footface @33
If I may, a little tweak…
re @34 quoted some dissenter:
Let me show you (dissenter), this study, comparing children from usual households against kids raised by homos. The kids from homo couples fared much better than from the “usual”. You might want to reconsider, with some actual evidence before you.
the rest is all “slippery slope” argument.
yecchh
The Texas Attorney General weighed in with a Ken-Ham-like blast of stupidity:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ken-paxton-texas-gay-marriage
That’s all bluster. Paxton said later that the state of Texas would be “following high court’s flawed ruling.”
Lots bluster and flailing around will subside into grumbling acceptance.
Nazis!
Also included in fascist behavior by atheists and not-fundamentalist-enough christians are any critical remarks directed at religious people who make stupid and hateful remarks.
They believe that free speech rights end when the conservative christian is done talking.
Cross posted from the Lounge.
I would love a rainbow-colored drink. Put me on your list, Tony.
Franklin Graham would not like a rainbow-colored drink:
Link
Sounds a lot like Ken Ham. These guys all play the same, boring note.
Comments along the lines of “you had better be ready and you had better be prepared” will boost gun sales in some parts of the USA. For the most part, we’re banking on these guys being more bluster than bite. Ditto for their followers.
Tony @35: Yes, that’s the most glaring of all the dunderheadisms in the BUT TRADITION! argument. The very book you keep thumping has a number of (ahem) different ideas about marriage.
re 37:
Texas A.G.,
That 1st amendment you speak of with that ‘liberty of religion’ stuff, specifically says that government can NOT have a religion. So you can’t follow it by disobeying it. Civil disobedience is only applicable to the citizens, who act against the government. When government disobeys the laws of the government, there’s a different word: tyranny.
This ruling does not say every religion MUST perform a marriage, regardless of the couple asking, it only applies to that license thing you require all religions to enact at the end of each wed ceremony.
Lynna @ 31:
I did duck over to see what the Trib had to say; “Mormons still won’t marry Teh Gays” as the lead story, with the actual ruling just below it — sadly not surprised. *sigh* But I would very much like to buy Judge Shelby a beer today.
slithey tove @20: Theoretically, they should be complaining about divorce, but the Protestant churches gave it up as a lost cause two generations ago (the RCC has enough momentum to go its own way).
Re OP: If I’d wondered at all about Ken Ham’s reaction, it would have been to check the news for reports of exploding heads from the vicinity of Petersburg, KY.
Caine @2: “Movements of God / the Spirit” is a fairly common phrase in Evangelical-speak, meaning roughly: “God is about to do something exciting! (So give us money!)” Now I have the perfect subversive image to go with that, so thanks the word-play ;-).
Generally: It’s not entirely true that this has no impact on Christians. No, nobody is going to require churches to start gay-marrying people, but there can be conflicts between religious institutional policies on e.g. employment and educational certification, and human rights codes, where the courts have to adjudicate the boundary between conflicting rights. See for e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity_Western_University#Faculty_of_Law.
From religious rightwing nutter, Bryan Fischer:
From E.W. Jackson:
From Peter LaBarbera:
From rightwing nutter Todd Starnes:
From Austin Ruse:
From the Family Research Council:
From the National Organization for Marriage:
@44: If Americans of certain stripe weren’t so damned insular, they could look around them at countries that crossed this supposedly devastating moral Rubicon some years ago, and notice that the sun keeps shining there, and men and women keep on getting and staying (with no more than the usual number of exceptions) happily married, and raising kids, and voting in elections, and even attending the religious club of their choice. And then they would know that Fischer, LaBarbera, Franklin Graham, etc, were full of shit.
lucy1965 @42, Yeah, mormons are particularly strange when it comes to gay rights. Their leaders recently commanded them to love gay church members and to express compassion towards gays … but to remain completely intolerant of any gay person who acted on his/her sexual desires.
Mormons also think the ultimate reparative therapy is death. If you are a church-broke, (i.e., Obedient), mormon gay person, god will make you straight and will place you in a heterosexual marriage after you arrive in the Celestial Kingdom. That’s a reward for all of your suffering in this life, with most of that suffering being inflicted by your own church leaders.
In the sense that the US will join the increasing number of countries that have decided to be more inclusive and just, yes, this will fundamentally change the culture. On the other hand, gay people have always been gay. Being able to get married won’t make an ounce of difference to that.
Canada has had marriage equality for 10 yrs. Other than getting to attend a bunch of weddings of long-term partners who previously couldn’t wed (that glut is over, it seems) the change has had zero effect on my life. No cultural change at all, although it is nicer to know that we’re a little less discriminatory than we used to be. Not anywhere near good enough but one step in the right direction.
In support of Christian marriage, and in honor of Ken Ham, I am going to copy the marriage of Abraham, and marry my half-sister, then deny that we are married.
One’s tempted to write a long rebuttal to Kenny… but sometimes, simple is enough.
Like just three words:
Suck it, Ham.
(Life is good today. Congratulations to all the newly-liberated couples out there!)
Hey doesn’t Rick Scarborough owe us a BBQ?
Eamon Knight @46,
Bah! Other countries exist only to provide picturesque vacation spots, oil, or cannon fodder. What could we possibly learn from them?
Ain’t it funny, how so many of the sad whiners are echoing the same sentiments made the last time the Supreme Court “redefined” marriage 48 years ago, when Loving v. Virginia struck down laws criminalizing interracial marriage. Ain’t it funny, how the nation has survived despite the promise of God’s retribution.
A clear statement by Jesus H. Christ against divorce. So all you religulous people out there who have been divorced can sit down and shut up.
Now, who’s left?
I just had a ghastly thought. When the really horrible results of climate change start happening, what do you want to bet the Ken Hams of the world will tell us they’re the wrath of God for allowing gay marriage?
Lynna@47: Yes, I used to be one. And then my brother came out and was excommunicated, and the rest of the family split neatly down gender lines, with the men doubling down and the women either resigning their memberships or being excommunicated for saying “Hey, seriously, what is this shit?” To their bishops. In front of witnesses. (My parents are no longer married, and religion was the thing that drove them apart.)
When my brother married, neither my father nor my brother (with their shiny new TBM wives) came to the reception. Pity: it was a brilliant party, and my BIL is a wonderful person.
Thomathy @ 13:
Why not, when Scalia practically invites it in his dissent:
ghee I have never had to “prove” I was not a bot here before I guess I passed the test. yeah!
kenny really betrays what lies at the core of christianity here.
It is “The Fear Of God” the lies in the dark heart of his religion. All his protestations of gods greatness and even his love are meant for gods ear, his evangelism is meant for god, to prove he is true to his “beloved” tyrannical demon (father?) so as not to suffer torment for eternity from .
it is the Stockholm syndrome to an imaginary entity.
uncle frogy
@eeyore # 55 Or for taking down their confederate flags.
Scientismist:
UGH. Just reading highlights from the dissents is a bit scary. In Roberts’ dissent he wrote:
The bold text is there to highlight what I see as the most problematic part. I understand the idea of dissenting opinions, but are those opinions intended to be allowed to directly contradict the lawful decision of the Court? The Constitution has pretty much everything to do with it and that is the decision of the Court.
The people who dissented have written some worrisome words.
Bold text ought to be “But do not Celebrate the Constitution. It had nothing to do with it.“
How did that happen? I thought having a law denying marriage of some people, for religious reasons, violated that Amendment. Please explain how I’m incorrect.
lucy1965 @56, Sorry to hear you had to go through that. For a religion supposedly centered on not just families, but “eternal families,” mormonism sure breaks up a lot families. So glad to hear some of your family members saw the light of reason. To “Outer Darkness” with the True Believing Mormon Men.
“Y’know,
Abraham LincolnJustice Kennedy was a Republican…”@ thomathy: You think that’s bad, go read Thomas’s dissent, where he redefines the word “dignity” right out of existence:
From page 17 of Thomas’s dissent (page 94 on the pdf version here):
Emphasis mine. I have many words, but even Pharyngula might not be a good place for so many swears.
It’s all the fault of the women:
http://baylyblog.com/blog/2015/06/obergefell-v-hodges-three-five
PatrickG @65: That’s typical Catholic et al bullshit on “dignity”, which also comes up in assisted-dying obstructionism. “Dignity” is a magical-metaphysical-mysterious property we are imbued with, which dictates how others must treat us (granted, often for good), but also constrains how we are allowed live our own lives (not so good). It is only barely related to, say, empowering people to take control of their own circumstances and destiny, or working determinedly and proudly to overcome adversity (which are images that the word “dignity” make me think of). Concepts like “inherent worth” and universal rights are far better bases for ethics and law, and dignity (i.e. this construal thereof) should be scrapped.
@ Eamon Knight: Oh sure, I’m familiar with the bullshit of God-given “dignity”. He’s very explicit about how dignity only originates from divine sources. I was just flabbergasted to see that argument on such rampant display. Ordinarily, assholes try to soften it, because, you know, it sounds really awful when you just say it straight out like this.
On another note:
A number of the Japanese-American branch of my extended family are currently saying they felt the government took their/their parents’/their grandparents’ dignity away. They’re not particularly thrilled to see Thomas trivialize that particular injustice in this dissent.
Also, fuck it. I’m going to stop reading the dissents, or post by people whining that Kennedy wasn’t legal enough to suit their tastes. This is a good outcome, I can be cynical and depressed after Pride this weekend. :)
Lynna @ 46:
A true statement, but unfortunately those fools don’t seem to grasp the difference between natural law and social convention.
“In a historic vote, the Supreme Court broke with centuries of tradition by abolishing the conservation of momentum in a 5-4 decision.”
When the LGBT community is granted the ability to walk through walls and exceed the speed of light, I will wholeheartedly join with the Family Research Council in condemning judicial overreach. Until then, I’ll be happy about another step on the road to equality.
@Lucy1965:
Apparently I didn’t do enough LDS in the sixties – what does TBM mean?
PatrickG@ 68: My sister-in-law would like to invite him to join her and my mixed-race niece at the Bainbridge Island Japanese-American Exclusion Memorial. There might have been a few swear words included in the invitation.
CripDyke @ 71: “TBM”=”True Believing Mormons”
@lucy1965:
Thank you.
The Huckster has spoken which you can read for yourself here: Huckabee.com. I don’t recommend it. It’s predictably shrill and rife with the same fear-baiting we heard in the 60s regarding civil liberties for blacks.
Interesting how these folks are advocating sedition and resisting the “imperial court.” I wonder how they would feel about real citizens resisting the court’s decision on Citizens United. Hmmm?
The Urban Dictionary says TBM is “Totally Brainwashed Mormon.” The closest I’ve ever been to Mormons was some of my cousins, who were not very devout (downright degenerate was my Methodist Gram’s assessment), so I wouldn’t know.
There’s been a lot of stupid said about this, and I expect there’ll be a lot more, But Bobby Jindal has got to be a contender for the stupidest comment. So far, at least.
Huckabee at the link from robro @74:
That’s as far as I could stomach him. He really doesn’t have the vaguest idea of what a constitution or a Supreme Court are for.
@74 robro:
But CU was ‘different’ as it only reaffirmed the personhood of corporations…….
I’ll go throw up now —
Self fulfilling prophesy at work. Yes fundies, more and more people resent you and you are going to see more and more pushback from people over the evil-ass shit you’ve done to other human beings. That isn’t hating your god. That’s hating what you do in his name.
“[A]part from a miracle of God—a special movement of God—this is going to be basically an irreversible situation.” God has had plenty of opportunities to conduct miracles to stop marriage equality, and didn’t. God has already spoken. God is omnipotent and omniscient: therefore, he wants there to be equal marriage. It couldn’t be more obvious.
I’d just like to note that we’ve had equal marriage up here in Canada for a decade now, and the social consequences have been exactly nil. No upheaval, no rioting, no shutting down of churches, no rain of fire from the heavens. Just life as usual. Maybe a slight uptick in overall happiness.
#80:
Maybe a slight uptick in overall happiness.
Well, exactly. We can’t have that now can we? The basic premise of reactionary ideology is that the cure for your own misery is to make sure them others ain’t havin’ no fun neither.
On this day I am proud to be of German descent, as that grants me a personal association with today’s word:
SCHADENFREUDE!
Never before have I been more glad to sup deeply of the tears of righteous angst flowing freely from the hyperstimulated lachrymal ducts of the assorted conservatives, fundamentalists and general far-right dumbfucks of your country. The pleasure I take in absorbing their holy tantrums is almost greater than the joy I feel for all the American couples who now have the right to express their love and commitment publicly and legally.
My hope is that my country, Australia, will soon do what it has so often done in the past and follow America down this newly-trodden path. Far too often when we do that, we end up with our young people getting fucking shot at by people who weren’t even our enemies before we put our boots on their ground, but this is a path I’m more than happy for us to tread. The major obstacle, unfortunately, is our government of hard-right conservative Christian vandals, regressives and prim, petulant prefects doing what they do best: deny reality and delay the inevitable.
Perhaps equality will be realised despite their best efforts (which certainly won’t stop them from claiming credit for it somewhere down the track), perhaps we’ll have to wait until they’re out of government – another 12 or 15 months, hopefully, if this country comes to its senses and exacts a brutal vengeance at the ballot box. Either way, this country cannot indefinitely hold back the global tide of equality, despite what will no doubt be the increasing stridency and sky-is-falling rhetoric of our homegrown Huckabees, Scalias and “Family” organisations. I look forward to their breathless defences of “tradition” and their subtle (and not-so-subtle) invocations of what God wants (which thankfully has as much to do with our laws as it does America’s) and their hand-wringing, garment-rending and tooth-gnashing.
Regarding christians and divorce. My marriage ended because god and the minister’s wife told my newly-born-again husband that god wanted him to be with a co-worker/fellow imaginary friend worshiper so he could find ‘real love’ and gawd’s plan at last.
That he was already married mattered not. Because god. It’s not like their god covers this in the handbook or anyth — oh, wait, Corinthians. 7:13-15. New testament even. Lookee there.
I showed him. I gave* our son Teh Ghey by letting him play with girl toys when he was little, and made him into an atheist, too. *evil grin*
*Translation for the non-reality impaired, I let the kids play with what they wanted to, and taught them both to think and question.
I’m really glad that that my son now has the same opportunity to marry as my daughter already had.
At #20,
But, Nerd…I thought without god, he’d have a free pass to start killing people and whatever else he wants. Only his belief holds him from that, right? /s
@Hank_Says 82
I like backpfeifengesicht better. But I won’t pass up the chance to roll around in the schadenfreude. (now if only I can get them pronounced right)
Lynna @44
Aaaaand a nation has been earwormed. Thanks, rightwing nutter Bryan Fischer, it will play here all week. Also, ridiculously melodramatic much, dude?
@Brony, 84
I hear you. There are plenty of worthy backpfeifengesicht candidates in my government. As I’m a pacifist, though, I’ll enjoy this American victory and lap up the schadenfreude until my country does the right thing, enabling me to drink some locally-sourced tears of righteous rage.
The apostle Paul was such a nasty asshole.
And a raging anti-Semite. James and Simon had a shot but just missed out on cutting his throat.
robro @74:
I have no idea why I did so, but I left a comment over there. Surprisingly there were no other comments (mine is in moderation and at a guess, it probably will remain there until deleted).
****
Ragutis @76:
Funny thing about saving money. If Gov. Jindal really wanted to save money, he’d recommend all these right-wing orgs stop fighting against social progress.
****
Scientismist @77:
He also doesn’t seem to understand that not only do a majority of USAmericans support marriage equality, but a majority of states approved it.
****
Hank_says_ @82:
This made me curious about the support for marriage equality in Australia:
Sigh. Ya’ll can’t even get the government to bring it to a vote because of Abbott. Fuck.
I will say this much for Ham: he’s more honest than Scalia.
@Hank_Says 86
Apologies if that was unwelcome.
roachiesmom @85:
Maybe one of these tunes will aid you in ridding yourself of that earworm-
YMCA
We are family
You know, in honor of marriage equality.
@34 Lynna, OM
I’ve met a lot of Mormons over the years. They’re very polite and keep their opinions to themselves usually. I used to admire it until I figured out they keep quiet because they don’t want possible recruits to find out what virulent racists they all are and run away from them.
Their excessive alcoholism when not in each other’s presence is a real eye-opener to the inner workings of their culture.
“government move against Christian churches, colleges, institutions, and organizations that take a stand”
Well yeah, if that stand involves physically blocking or disturbing marriage ceremonies, or trying to pass unconstitutional laws and measures on communal or state level. It’s what happens when groups of people enact their delusions of being privileged to stand above the law, especially when the aim is to exclusively harm others.
Thomas’ words about dignity strike me. As a German, I am acutely aware of what the first statement in the German constitution means and why it was placed there. “The dignity of the human being is inviolable.” Period. No “except when you wish to put some folks into camps or let them starve because dignity has nothing to do with how the human being feels or if he/she stays alive at all”. Thomas would have made a shining apologist for the SS.
In case anyone wants a chuckle or a break from all the hateful idiots:
June Is A Lovely Time For A Wedding
To Tony! The Queer Shoop at #18:
How’s about sending the Hamster to Wayward Pines?
Shorter version of the Ham’s argument: “If you are at the top of the hill, everyone trying to climb it from below you looks suspiciously like they are trying to attack me!”
williamgeorge @92:
I haven’t personally seen excessive alcoholism in most mormons, but I have seen excessive use of Prozac and other similar drugs. Utah is #1 in terms of percentage of use for such drugs.
I do know some younger mormons, especially teens and young adult men, who drink to excess when they know they will not get caught and turned in to their Bishop.
It’s a secretive, insular culture that’s for sure. The image/reputation of “The Church” comes first. Mormons are, in general, getting somewhat better at turning in the criminals in their membership. There’s still a tendency to “counsel” pedophiles and white collar criminals within the system. Ditto for men who prey on younger women sexually. The morridor culture has a long way to go when it comes to transparency and justice.
In the recent past, mormons were the most well-known polygamists in the USA. Now the LDS leaders are very touchy and self-righteous about the marriage of “one man to one woman” as “ordained by God.”
More Moments of Mormon Madness to add to those up-thread:
Link
Lynna @ 98: Don’t forget the suicide rates, especially among LGBT teens! Or the soft-core porn searches. But by all means, let’s waste church time excommunicating legally married same-sex couples; it’s not like there’s any important work that needs doing. /sarcasm
That post reminds me of the letter my son received after starting at the university, saying that his records had been transferred to a Young Adults ward near campus: he hadn’t attended in 7 years at that point. Earlier that month a friend had come out to his LDS parents and been thrown out of the house. DS was so angry and creeped out that he organized a resignation letter-writing party at his apartment and cheerfully sent it (and those of 10 of his friends) to the bishop in response.
when i hear someone talk about marriage in the bible i always have to think of this image:
http://images.elephantjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/marriage.jpg
“biblical marriage” :)
lucy1965 @100:
Did your brother have to attend a “Court of Love” before those fools excommunicated him?
It always irks me when mormons slap on a label that is the opposite of what is actually going on. “Court of Love” my ass.
You are right about the suicide rate among LGBT teens who are, nominally at least, members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/07/us-usa-suicide-utah-idUSBRE84618H20120507
As for the porn searches, some of that data is related to Utahans that pay for porn, so it also tells you that some mormons don’t know how to view free porn.
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_11821265
http://www.cityweekly.net/TheDailyFeed/archives/2013/03/13/utahs-top-10-porn-searches
Your note about your son’s church records being transferred tells us all we need to know about the number of church members claimed by mormon leaders. The leaders are living in cloud cuckoo land, where a guy who hasn’t attended in seven years is still listed as an active member. Glad he sent in the resignation letters.
What all this has to do with rightwing religious nutters talking about marriage equality, (or frothing at the mouth about gays), is that a suite of repressive attitudes go along with being anti-gay. An entire world view that includes all kinds of other retrograde concepts are attached to the anti-gay movement fueled by religion.
Lynna, OM wrote:
Wasn’t he supposed to move to Canada back around 2013 because the evil Obama administration was out to get him?
A lot of fundies I grew up with have been posting amazingly passive-aggressive screeds on social media, or screencaps of Ham and Ray Comfort’s posts and tweets — It’s amazing. I read it, but it auto-corrects in my head to ‘Persecute me! Persecute me harder! Oh! A little to the left! That’s the spot, YES! PERSECUTE ME! PERSECUTE!”
I wonder if Ham watches Oliver on “Last Week Tonight”, who did a pretty nice overview of the SCOTUS decision. With a few lowlights of the contradictions the anti-LGBTs display. Old
HuckleberryHuckabee was singled out, a bit, about hisobjection tohischool fantasy about trans admission to the restroom of their gender identity. yada yada yada. [not an HBO shill]I amuse myself, imagining Ham yelling at the TV (or cringing) with Oliver boppin about all the stuff Ham enrages himself about.
Lynna @ 102:
I’m sorry I didn’t answer this sooner; I was busy dealing with the flames on the side of my face that those memories ignite. Yes, he did, and it was heartbreaking: he’d never even held hands with another man at that point, but in the late ’80s in some parts of Utah, just admitting to “those feelings” was enough. Five years later a friend committed suicide because he couldn’t see leaving the church as a way out.
And yet a therapist I consulted didn’t think hearing about how growing up in that culture affected my stress responses was relevant. I found another therapist.