I welcome my neighbors on their new path to full citizenship


Obama announced some changes to immigration policy. Like everything Obama, it’s a mess of compromise, but at least it’s a step in the right direction. It’s also all dressed up in religious language, which drives me a little nuts: I don’t consider Scripture a source of racial and ethnic tolerance. But he also shows a little spine.

Had the House of Representatives allowed that kind of bill a simple yes or no vote, it would have passed with support from both parties. And today it would be the law. But for a year and a half now Republican leaders in the House have refused to allow that simple vote. Now I continue to believe that the best way to solve this problem is by working together to pass that kind of common sense law. But until that happens, there are actions I have the legal authority to take as president, the same kinds of actions taken by Democratic and Republican presidents before me, that will help make our immigration system more fair and more just.

You can bet the right wing will use that to argue that he’s acting like an emperor…but at least he’s committing an act of generosity and tolerance, rather than starting wars.

After a bunch of pandering to the right (we’ve increased border patrols, etc.), we get to the meat of his plan.

Now here is the thing. We expect people who live in this country to play by the rules. We expect those who cut the line will not be unfairly rewarded. So we’re going to offer the following deal: If you’ve with been in America more than five years. If you have children who are American citizens or illegal residents. If you register, pass a criminal background check and you’re willing to pay your fair share of taxes, you’ll be able to apply to stay in this country temporarily without fear of deportation. You can come out of the shadows and get right with the law. That’s what this deal is.

Now let’s be clear about what it isn’t. This deal does not apply to anyone who has come to this country recently. It does not apply to anyone who might come to America illegally in the future. It does not grant citizenship or the right to stay here permanently, or offer the same benefits that citizens receive. Only Congress can do that. All we’re saying is we’re not going to deport you.

See? Compromise. Why 5 years? What does “temporarily” mean? But OK, it’s a step forward. And he does get a bit inspiring.

My fellow Americans, we are and always will be a nation of immigrants. We were strangers once, too. And whether our forbearers were strangers who crossed the Atlantic, or the Pacific or the Rio Grande, we are here only because this country welcomed them in and taught them that to be an American is about something more than what we look like or what our last names are, or how we worship. What makes us Americans is our shared commitment to an ideal, that all of us are created equal, and all of us have the chance to make of our lives what we will. That’s the country our parents and grandparents and generations before them built for us. That’s the tradition we must uphold. That’s the legacy we must leave for those who are yet to come.

Of course, one other way to interpret that is that he has just declared Republicans to be un-American, since they don’t seem to hold that ideal. Their freak-out is going to be fun to watch.

Comments

  1. says

    You can bet the right wing will use that to argue that he’s acting like an emperor

    They were doing that before Obama even announced anything. The actual content of his speech was quite irrelevant.

  2. thelastholdout says

    I’ll be honest, I’ve never really liked much that Obama has done since he got into office (though I acknowledge that he hasn’t done much that any other president wouldn’t do-allowing whistleblowers in the military to be persecuted, dropping bombs on people half a world away, etc)

    But this…this was great. He finally says what many of us were thinking: this country’s population and diversity wouldn’t exist without immigration. My family wouldn’t exist without it, I know that for sure. My great great grandfather on my father’s side of the family didn’t come here until 1905 from Bohemia (modern day Czech Republic/Slovakia), and his wife and mother came shortly after. My grandmother on my dad’s side was half Irish and half German, and while my mother’s heritage is murkier, with some of her family tracing their roots back to Patriots in the Revolutionary war, it’s probable she has Scottish blood. All through this country’s history there has been some brutal backlash against immigration; I remember a political cartoon from the 19th century illustrating the absurdity of descendants of immigrants trying to stop other immigrants from making it here (it showed a fat guy in a top hat and tux putting his hand up to stop a guy from getting off the boat, while his own shadow is that of a poor street vendor). This is not a new problem, but this is the 21st century. The borderline xenophobia needs to end. It wasn’t cool when it was against Germans, it wasn’t cool when it was against Irish, and it isn’t cool when it’s against Hispanic and other ethnic groups.

    I mean hell, immigration was cut off in the late 19th century because some fucker of a politician interpreted the Monroe Doctrine to use it against immigrants. I wonder what kind of similar bullshit we’ll see this time around.

  3. peterh says

    Sure, other presidents have taken similar measures, but they weren’t the Big O, handy straw man of the Self-Oppressed™.

  4. Big Boppa says

    Their freak-out is going to be fun to watch.

    You need only look as far as Minnesota’s own Michele “Loony Toons” Bachmann for your day’s dosage of schadenfreude my friend.

  5. terrencekaye says

    I know this guy from my village who applied for USA citizenship and finally got it, but he had to stand in line, take tests, pay fees, jump through all kinds of hoops. What an idiot. I broke into your house five years ago and have been living there ever since, raising my family, and lots of my friends have done the same. Only racist swine would dare to question us. Don’t they know this has always been a nation of homebuyers and homeowners?

  6. Saad says

    terrencekaye, #6

    I know this guy from my village who applied for USA citizenship and finally got it, but he had to stand in line, take tests, pay fees, jump through all kinds of hoops. What an idiot. I broke into your house five years ago and have been living there ever since, raising my family, and lots of my friends have done the same. Only racist swine would dare to question us.

    Didn’t you read what he plainly spelled out, asshole?

    Now let’s be clear about what it isn’t. This deal does not apply to anyone who has come to this country recently. It does not apply to anyone who might come to America illegally in the future. It does not grant citizenship or the right to stay here permanently, or offer the same benefits that citizens receive.

  7. terrencekaye says

    My bad, Saad. You’re right, the plain words are there for all to see and we should heed them. By “he,” are you referring to the gentleman who said you can keep your doctor, you can keep your plan, and your premium will go down by $2,500?

  8. tbtabby says

    Now THAT’S the Obama we were voting for. Looks like he finally figured out that the Republicans will NEVER warm up to him no matter what he does, so he shouldn’t give a damn about them. Better late than never.

    And yes, the Republicans are freaking out hilariously. there’s plenty of cries of “Emperor Obama!” and threats to have him thrown in jail because they think what he’s doing is illegal (spoiler alert: it isn’t), but in particular, here’s the Kansas Secretary of State claiming this will lead to Hispanics committing genocide against whites, and Tom Coburn not-so-subtly suggesting that people should rise up violently against the president.

  9. anteprepro says

    Looks like somebody was happy about the news that they rushed in here to throw a tea party!

    What’s next on your talking point list, terrencekaye? “They took our jobs”? “Welfare queens”? “Secret Muslim”? “Death panels”? “Demographic winter”? “We don’t speak Spanish, we speak American!”?

    Please, we are all eagerly waiting to hear what you say next! It’s the next best thing to tuning into Rush Limbaugh’s show directly!

  10. Gen, Uppity Ingrate and Ilk says

    anteprepro, 14: Oooh, I think I want to play bingo!

    (from linked article by terrencekaye:
    OBAMA: “It does not grant citizenship, or the right to stay here permanently, or offer the same benefits that citizens receive. Only Congress can do that. All we’re saying is we’re not going to deport you.”

    THE FACTS: He’s saying, and doing, more than that. The changes also will make those covered eligible for work permits, allowing them to be employed in the country legally and compete with citizens and legal residents for better-paying jobs.

    Check.

    Go on, terrencekaye. Mama needs a new toaster oven.

  11. David Wilford says

    Ronald Reagan took executive action to halt deportations for 200,000 Nicaraguan exiles back in the 1980s, so I’m not buying the b.s. coming from Republicans about the legality of Obama’s actions now.

  12. Gen, Uppity Ingrate and Ilk says

    Fark. Borked blockquote. Trying again.

    Anteprepro, 14: Oooh, I think I want to play bingo!

    What’s next on your talking point list, terrencekaye? “They took our jobs”? “Welfare queens”? “Secret Muslim”? “Death panels”? “Demographic winter”? “We don’t speak Spanish, we speak American!”?

    From linked article by terrencekaye:

    OBAMA: “It does not grant citizenship, or the right to stay here permanently, or offer the same benefits that citizens receive. Only Congress can do that. All we’re saying is we’re not going to deport you.”

    THE FACTS: He’s saying, and doing, more than that. The changes also will make those covered eligible for work permits, allowing them to be employed in the country legally and compete with citizens and legal residents for better-paying jobs.

    Check.

    Go on, terrencekaye. Mama needs a new toaster oven.

  13. anteprepro says

    What were the complaints in that article terrence? Obama forgot to mention work permits, Obama was wrong about the rate of children getting arrested for illegally crossing the border (an amount that apparently is roughly 1/8th of all border arrests, at most), he was right that border crossing is at the the lowest rate since the 1970s, but it went up in 2011, and that he didn’t start an immigration reform fast enough. Three quibbles and an argument that he needed to do MORE for the Latino community, sooner? How does that shit help you, terrence? What the fuck is your actual point? You are not going to get by just throwing shit at the wall until you see what sticks.

  14. numerobis says

    A minor nit about Obama’s words: he’s eliding a certain percentage of the population whose ancestors didn’t cross the Pacific. They walked from Asia.

    (And more recently, some fraction who crossed Lake Champlain and other northern border crossings.)

  15. consciousness razor says

    from terrencekaye’s linked AP article:

    OBAMA: “It does not grant citizenship, or the right to stay here permanently, or offer the same benefits that citizens receive. Only Congress can do that. All we’re saying is we’re not going to deport you.”

    THE FACTS: He’s saying, and doing, more than that. The changes also will make those covered eligible for work permits, allowing them to be employed in the country legally and compete with citizens and legal residents for better-paying jobs.

    Maybe they’re not racist right-wingers, but they’ve got an idiotic notion of “more than.” If they’re not immediately deported, what the fuck would you expect anyone to do? Hide them in the fucking closet with no way to meaningfully participate in society, until time runs out and we deport them? Oh, and maybe we’ll mention how they aren’t making a meaningful contribution, so it’s no biggie….

  16. Saad says

    terrencekaye,

    The only one of those fact checks that has to do with this current immigration plan is the first one. But even then, your bullshit still falls apart, because your original racist whining was:

    I know this guy from my village who applied for USA citizenship and finally got it, but he had to stand in line, take tests, pay fees, jump through all kinds of hoops.

    So standing in line, paying fees, and jumping through hoops gets you citizenship. Obama’s plan does not.

    But wait… I see what you mean now that I look more closely… Oh shit! Brown-skinned people with accents will be taking jobs! Aaaaaah!!!

    Run for the hills! Brown people are coming to join the workforce, pay taxes and be part of our economy! And their kids! Oh my god, their kids will be sitting in classrooms!

    Asshole.

  17. dõki says

    #6

    I broke into your house five years ago and have been living there ever since, raising my family, and lots of my friends have done the same.

    This sounds like an allegory of how the US acquired its current territory.

  18. says

    Here’s a good example of the response from right-wingers, it is Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, and his fellow xenophobe, Ted Nugent, pontificating:

    Claiming that immigrant rights groups are “calling for the return of the Spanish territory, which could be almost half of the United States,” the caller warned, “When one race or culture overwhelms another culture, they run them out or they kill them. And it’s a bigger issue than just being Democrats. And they know in numbers, once the numbers are so bad, they can pretty much do whatever they want to do.”

    “What protects us in America from any kind of ethnic cleansing is the rule of law, of course,” Kobach responded. “And the rule of law used to be unassailable, used to be taken for granted in America. And now, of course, we have a president who disregards the law when it suits his interests. So, while I normally would answer that by saying, ‘Steve, of course we have the rule of law, that could never happen in America,’ I wonder what could happen. I still don’t think it’s going to happen in America, but I have to admit, things are strange and they are happening.” […]

    Right Wing Watch link.

    Earlier in the program, Kobach used a more subtle form of racial dog-whistle by accusing Democrats of “replacing American voters” with “socialist” Hispanic voters. While reading polls about political attitudes broken out by race, Kobach said that “if you look at it through an ethnic lens,” Democrats want to create a “a locked-in vote for socialism” by “replacing American voters with newly legalized aliens.”

  19. says

    More from the right-wingers:

    In the same radio program in which he considered the possibility that the Obama administration had opened the door to the “ethnic cleansing” of whites by Latino immigrants and called President Obama an underachieving product of “affirmative action culture,” Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach cited a racist meme to mock people who didn’t vote in the 2014 elections, saying that nonvoters were just “sitting in front of the TV all day talking on their Obama Phones.”
    Link.

    Kobach, a former advisor to Mitt Romney and a driving force behind anti-immigrant laws and voting restrictions throughout the country, has been using his own state as a laboratory for restrictive voting laws, recently implementing a strict ID requirement that left about 20 percent of the state’s voter registration applications in limbo before election day.

  20. says

    We all know that the frothing, furious talk coming from the right is more talk than action. In a way, they even admit that themselves. In fact, they want to avoid acting so much that they would like for someone else to act. They would like for the United States military to arrest President Obama.

    Cliff Kincaid of the right-wing group Accuracy In Media stopped by “Trunews” where he spoke with host Rick Wiles about their dreams of the military arresting President Obama. […]

    “This is the only way you deal with a hooligan, you tell him we’re coming with handcuffs, we’re going to lock you up,” Wiles said. “I don’t think you can impeach Obama because he’s not a legitimate president, you and I both know he’s a foreign plant, he’s always been a communist agent inside this country and you don’t impeach somebody who went into that office through false pretense. It’s never happened in the republic, but the way you deal with that person is you arrest them.”

    Wiles elaborated that he is pulling for the Marines to raid the White House: “It’s time that they recognize that he’s an imposter who is destroying the republic. My greatest, my most wonderful dream is seeing helicopters hovering over the White House with Marines repelling down on the roof and going in there and getting that rascal.”

    “It’s a dream, it’s not going to happen, but that’s what should happen and it’s what would’ve happened many years ago in this country because God-fearing, patriotic men would never have permitted this criminal to get away with this stuff. So we are to blame as a people for allowing this criminal to pull off this crime,” he said. […]

    Link.

  21. Saad says

    Lynna, OM #25

    Democrats want to create a “a locked-in vote for socialism” by “replacing American voters with newly legalized aliens.”

    *checks off “shift in voter demographic” space*

  22. says

    I think we are going to see a lot of local enforcement personnel ignoring or blocking President Obama’s executive action. I’ve see calls for just that kind of thing in several rightwing sources. Here’s one example:

    Michael Peroutka, a Christian reconstructionist who peddles radical theocratic views at his Institute for the Constitution, recently got a new platform for what he calls his ‘American view’ of government when he was elected as a Republican to a county council position in Maryland.

    Although Peroutka has yet to take office, he’s already giving a taste of what it will mean to implement his radical views at a local level. In an interview with Iowa talk radio host Steve Deace on Tuesday, Peroutka urged state and county governments to simply ignore any White House order deferring the deportation of some undocumented immigrants, and instead work independently to “incarcerate” or “deport” immigrants covered by the order. […]

    He advised that local governments tell the president: “We’re not abiding by it, we are still going to either incarcerate or seek to remove and deport those who are here illegally. We’re not going to follow suit and give them aid and comfort like he wants us to do, even though he’s bribing us with money to do it.”

    “We as local authorities and as state authorities should resist this scheme,” Peroutka said. “If we did, then it couldn’t go through.” […]

    Link.

  23. Tethys says

    Claiming that immigrant rights groups are “calling for the return of the Spanish territory, which could be almost half of the United States,” the caller warned, “When one race or culture overwhelms another culture, they run them out or they kill them.

    I guess Ted Nugent missed the day in 3rd grade math class where fractions were introduced. Perhaps it’s the same phenomenon where sexist men perceive anything more than 25 -30% female as women are taking over or dominating a space or profession. The idea that not being dominant will lead to certain extermination via the incoming population is especially revealing of a xenophobic arse.

  24. brett says

    @#25

    That’s what I’ve been reading as well on conservative blogs: a lot of paranoia about how the Democrats want amnesty so they can create a bunch of poor voters who will vote for welfare benefits. So basically a recycling of how they view black people as applied to immigrants.

    Personally, I think you should be immune for deportation if you’ve been here for more than 3 years without a felony or Class A Misdemeanor, with the possibility of getting full legal status and a green card after paying a fee (a fee that can be waived if you demonstrate written and spoken fluency in English). That doesn’t seem fair to people who went through the legal process, but the legal process is broken and in need of repair as well.

  25. EvoMonkey says

    The Republican Party is such a hodgepodge of irrational ideas right now. They should consider the current state of things in Japan. They are a well-educated technologically advanced nation with a high standard of living and a once-thriving economy. But they have a low birth rate and an aversion to immigration. As a result, they have just slipped into a recession again.

    When will the political right realize immigration is good. It seems to mesh nicely with their gung-ho free market capitalism, but they can’t get past the fact that immigrants look different, speak a different language, eat different food and all those other wonderful cultural differences.

  26. says

    Saad @28

    *checks off “shift in voter demographic” space*

    Ah, I see you have a Bingo game going.

    Can we combine that with my drinking game? I am taking a sip every time a Republican says that they wanted to pass immigration reform, but now they won’t. (Had to reduce consumption from one drink per statement to one sip per statement … otherwise, it would have been a danger to my health and ability to function.)

    We’ve gone to the president and said, ‘Give us time to do immigration reform, to work on the issue this year. We want to get this done.’ And this is the reaction he has to that? He had two years with a super-majority of his own party, and he didn’t lift a finger. And now he won’t give us a few weeks? [That’s Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) speaking]

    Unpacking for Paul’s sake, ’cause he needs help:

    – time factor: Republicans controlled the House for four years and they never even held a hearing on immigration legislation.
    – “he didn’t lift a finger” lie: Obama supported the Senate immigration bill passed 512 days ago, the House refused to even bring it up for a vote (that bill is still there, it is bipartisan, with Dems, Repubs and Independents signing on — the House still refuses to bring it to the floor).
    – the “He had two years with a super-majority of his own party”? lie: Dems had a super majority for four months, not two years, And they did try to pass the Dream Act, but Republicans killed it with a filibuster.

    As a side course of Crazy, Ryan and cohorts claim the President Obama’s immigration plans somehow make it impossible for them to cut taxes for rich people — that is, to cut them some more.

  27. Tethys says

    Tom Coburn not-so-subtly suggesting that people should rise up violently against the president.

    I would dearly love it if the NSA, or one of the Joint Chiefs of Staff at that funny five sided building would bring Mr Coborn into a small windowless room to explain the legal penalties for sedition against the Commander In Chief. Obama needs to do more of this; publicly give the opposition many opportunities to govern, and then when the fools inevitable fail to do anything but waste time, enact a policy that will be wildly successful with the governed.

  28. says

    As Rachel Maddow pointed out, at one point John Boehner told Democrats and the President that the House Republicans wanted to address the Senate’s immigration reform bill in a piecemeal way. Obama replied, basically, sure let’s do that.

    But Boehner never addressed a single piece of that meal. I wonder is some of his present bluster isn’t frustration with his own inadequate performance, and with the Tea Party faction of his House compatriots.

  29. A. Noyd says

    dõki (#24)

    This sounds like an allegory of how the US acquired its current territory.

    Then it should include murdering the original residents of the house after stealing their children.

  30. throwaway, never proofreads, every post a gamble says

    Why does Terrencekay hate families and want to see them split apart?

    I think it stems from that same judgmental authoritarianism which coaxes such venom toward women who would have sex and not want to suffer the “repercussion” of pregnancy. I mean some of the bile aimed at illegal immigrants who don’t play by the same rules everyone else does is reminiscent of that. Big ol’ balls of impotent rage. I say we keep poking them til the sad sacks burst.

  31. says

    Four months after they swore they would do so, the House GOP has finally sued President Obama. I think this might be John Boehner’s last ditch effort to bleed off some of the rightwing fury, an effort to avoid government shutdown, impeachment proceedings, etc.

    […] For the first time in American history, the House voted on July 30 to endorse a lawsuit against a sitting president. It left room to target various aspects of Obamacare implementation. The lawsuit targets Obama’s unilateral delay of the employer mandate […]

    Two top firms were hired by the House, and subsequently backed out. The GOP ended up hiring Jonathan Turley, a George Washington University law professor who has been critical of Obama’s use of executive power, to work on the case. […]

    “[…]Speaker Boehner and House Republicans are spending hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars pursuing a lawsuit that is without any sound legal basis,” White House spokeswoman Brandi Hoffine said in a statement.

    The lawsuit, the filing of which was announced one day after Obama unveiled a series of executive actions on immigration, will not address the president’s upcoming moves on deportations and immigration enforcement. […]

    “If this president can get away with making his own laws, future presidents will have the ability to as well,” the Speaker said in a statement. “The House has an obligation to stand up for the Constitution, and that is exactly why we are pursuing this course of action.”

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/house-gop-sues-obama-on-obamacare

  32. unclefrogy says

    what dislike about the immigration issue the most is the hypocrisy and blatant manipulation and racism of the right-wing anti-immigration rhetoric.
    take the line that they do not pay taxes even echoed in the presidents speech.
    Just what tax do they not pay? The only way that they can avoid the income tax is to work for cash under the table. Who is hiring them? Well it probably is not supporters of organized labor. How is that restricted to immigrants legal or not? If they work with fake papers and ss# the all taxes withheld is lost to them. Who hiring them and not hiring good American union workers?
    If they have some system to get out of paying sales tax or property tax or gasoline tax or sales tax I would like to know how.
    Immigrants have in the past and will continue to supply workers for unpopular lower payed areas until we can replace them with cheap robots.
    uncle frogy

  33. Crimson Clupeidae says

    We were strangers once, too. And whether our forbearers were strangers who crossed the Atlantic, or the Pacific or the Rio Grande, we are here only because this country welcomed them in and taught them that to be an American is about something more than what we look like or what our last names are, or how we worship.

    Ummm…my forebears may or may not have been welcoming, but most of their land, homes, and families were taken by force….

  34. says

    brett’s comment @31 about English fluency got me thinking. Are there any figures on what percentage of illegals come from Canada, the UK, Ireland, the Caribbean, or even English speaking parts of Africa? You can bet some of the loudmouths would be more than willing to look the other way for some white guy from Toronto or Dublin working illegally in the States, because they aren’t “real” illegals. Others might be less upset about someone from Barbados than they would someone from Honduras, because the former speaks the right language, English.

  35. says

    Some Republican leaders are urging calm after President Obama’s immigration reform statement. I don’t see that calm is what they are getting.

    Alabama Rep. Mo Brooks, one of the lower chamber’s most energetic critics of comprehensive immigration reform, suggested that the president’s move could potentially be grounds for impeachment, or even prison time.

    Brooks said there is a federal statute (“I don’t have the citation for it at the tip of my tongue”) making it a felony to aid, abet, or entice a foreigner to illegally enter the U.S.

    “At some point, you have to evaluate whether the president’s conduct aids or abets, encourages, or entices foreigners to unlawfully cross into the United States of America,” he continued. “That has a five-year in-jail penalty associated with it.”

    Slate link.

  36. says

    More on the not-calm-at-all Republican response:

    Sen. Jeff Session (R-AL) warned that “the president is endangering our entire constitutional order.” House Judiciary Chair Bob Goodlatte (R-VA) said Obama’s “rogue” action “threatens to unravel our government’s system of checks.” And Rep. Steve King (R-IA) was ready to move forward with a three-step plan for all-out government obstruction and political retribution.

    Representative Louis Gohmert (R-TX) may get the prize for fact-free furor:

    […] Gohmert doubled down on this claim, saying that Obama’s action is “so offensive” to both African Americans and Hispanics “who have an enormously high unemployment rate.” He then inferred that the 4.9 million immigrants who are being granted deportation relief from Obama would take others’ jobs at a 1-to-1 ratio, saying, “that’s going to leave 5 million people out in the cold.”

  37. dianne says

    I broke into your house five years ago and have been living there ever since, raising my family, and lots of my friends have done the same.

    So this would be a call for the Anglos to get out of New Spain, including Tejas, right? Not to mention the issue of getting Europeans out of the Americas. So you’ll be packing up and moving back to Britain or wherever you’re from then, right, Terrence?

  38. anteprepro says

    Dianne: I’m pretty sure it is actually an argument boldly stating that all hominids should immediately be emigrated back to Africa. That is one strong immigration policy, but when you just gotta stand on principle. No amnesty, no limits on time frame, no naturalization , no getting citizenship just because you were born there. It’s the ultimate in conservative policy.

  39. dianne says

    It’s a good point, Anteprepro. We didn’t evolve here and I’m sure we’re annoying the natives.

  40. andyo says

    What never gets mentioned whenever the “waiting in line” argument comes up. Ask these “line cutters” if they would give up their privileged freeriding of living in the shadows and in fear for years or even decades in order to have born and raised with enough money and a great education which will get them the opportunity to get in line legally. The idea that the US government would treat everyone equally regardless of these things is risible. If you wanna make the argument that only middle class or higher people can get in, then make it but don’t be fucking coy.

  41. Dark Jaguar says

    I hate when someone accuses me of “wanting a bunch of lawbreakers to steal our stuff tax free”.

    I want no such thing, nobody wants that. Obviously a nation can only function when citizens are paying taxes to support basic government.

    Here’s the deal. They’re only law breakers if a law is being broken. That’s obvious, but it bears noting that we have it in our power to change such laws. Illegals can be MADE legal at pretty much any time by changing what the laws are.

    The question is if it SHOULD be changed. That’s where we get to another part that could probably be expressed better. The idea that “they’re coming to take our stuff”. Well, what makes THEM thieves, and US those who rightfully deserve this “stuff”? I was born here, grew up all my life, and enjoyed the benefits of the US long before I ever contributed ANYTHING to it. I can’t be said to have earned any of that. It’s all down to my basic moral principle: There’s no logical reason to favor my own well being over that of another. The only difference, to me, that they’re newer, and they aren’t paying taxes.

    This leads to that last bit, the not paying taxes part. Well, they can’t pay taxes if they’re illegally here, so that’s a bit of a catch 22. I’m not saying all of them necessarily would just LOVE to pay taxes for the sheer joy that comes from responsible citizenship. We’re not all Hank Hill. But, many WILL if provided the chance for legal citizenship. That’s all it comes down to. Set up a Mexican border based version of Ellis Island, granting citizenship to anyone that can pass the basic tests we’ve always had in place, and grant it to them. After that they’re subject to all the same laws as anyone else, so they’ll need to pay taxes. It’ll also mean they will, by necessity, need to be paid a basic living wage. You know, all that stuff. At that point, in what way can you say they are any less deserving of a chance at this or that job than anyone else here?

    It’s all pretty simple really when you treat them like people. I’m not convinced it’s entirely racism at the heart of it (though for many it is), it’s basic good ol’ fashioned xenophobia.

  42. dianne says

    @52: I doubt that many Republicans’–or Democrats’– ancestors would be allowed into the US under current immigration policy. My only documented* immigrant ancestors wouldn’t have made the cut.

    http://www.entrydenied.org/survey_start.php

    *My ancestors came into the US in the following ways: Paternal grandfather’s family: basic 19th century immigrants. Paternal grandmother’s family: basic 19th century immigrants plus shady 17th century immigrants versus transportees. Maternal grandmother’s family: The US moved in on them while they were hanging out in, as far as they knew, norther Mexico. Maternal grandfather’s family: Who the fuck knows? Their paper trail ends in the 17th-19th century, still in the US/colonies.

  43. fernando says

    Questions to mine american friends:

    In the news they say that this decision of Obama is a something called “executive decision” (?). It has the same value of a law? Can your Congress stop this presidential action?

    All illegal immigrants (if they pay the taxes and are not criminals) can be turned in legal immigrants? Once they are legal in your country they can ask for citizenship and being awarded with it, or their previous situation of illegals will dificult the aquisition of american nationality?

    The Republican Party is against the legalization of immigrants, because the party fear the new legallized immigrants, once (or if) they turn in american citizens will vote for the Democrat Party? Or is the some kind of ideological principle of the Republican Party?

    Im curious about this, because the news in my country only talked about this in segments of 30 secs. to 1 minute, and i am a strong suporter of the integration of the immigrants in my country and, if all is acording to law and the wishes of them, to grant them citizenship.

  44. raven says

    Speaking of GOP hypocrisy.

    1. Could we send Ted Cruz back to Alberta, Canada?

    2. Could we send his wacko father, Rafael, back to Cuba?

    3. Could we send Romney, the descendant of polygamists, back to Mexico?

    4. Could we send Michele Bachmann, Louie Gohmert, and Sarah Palin back to whatever fever swamp they crawled?

  45. dianne says

    For some reason the Neil Diamond song points out to me that is implicit in the conversation: coming to America was and is a desperation move. One doesn’t just walk to Mordor, er, illegally sneak into the US, for no reason. Only those who have no choice would bother.

  46. Ze Madmax says

    Fernando @ #54:

    All illegal immigrants (if they pay the taxes and are not criminals) can be turned in legal immigrants?

    Obama’s action only applies to undocumented immigrants* who have been in the U.S. for five years or more, so it is by no means a blanket measure.

    * Regarding the use of “illegal,” see CaitieCat @ #43:

    people cannot be “illegal”. Please don’t use that kind of dehumanizing language. “Undocumented” works. There are others.

    .

  47. fleetfootphilo says

    But, in fact, undocumented works do pay taxes (sales tax in particular), often giving out far more than they could ever hope to get back:

    Immigrants pay taxes, in the form of income, property, sales, and taxes at the federal and state level. As far as income tax payments go, sources vary in their accounts, but a range of studies find that immigrants pay between $90 and $140 billion a year in federal, state, and local taxes. Undocumented immigrants pay income taxes as well, as evidenced by the Social Security Administration’s “suspense file” (taxes that cannot be matched to workers’ names and social security numbers), which grew by $20 billion between 1990 and 1998.
    (Source: http://www.immigrationforum.org/about/articles/tax_study.htm)

  48. dõki says

    #54 fernando

    Or is the some kind of ideological principle of the Republican Party?

    Call me cynical, but I think it’s more like a tendency to scapegoat any group that can be eyed with suspicion by a majority of the population. A growing population of recent Latin American immigrants makes them an obvious and easy target (especially if they don’t have full protection of the law).

    I’m sure some right wing groups (although not exclusively right wing groups) in your own country adopt similar tactics. Given your chosen ‘nym here, it might be the case that you’re my fellow countryman, and I could bore you to death tracing parallels with what happens here.

  49. Bill Turner says

    Just a comment on the title of this…the can’t truly be full citizens until they are no longer barred from certain (very high) jobs by reason of their place of birth.

  50. David Marjanović says

    Bohemia (modern day Czech Republic/Slovakia)

    The largest part of today’s Czech Republic, not extending into other current countries.

  51. thelastholdout says

    @63

    Thank you for the clarification, David. I’m still pretty fuzzy on historical geography of Europe. I knew that it was all in Czechoslovakia at one point, and that that country had split into the two I listed, and I wasn’t sure where Bohemia fell. The last time I had tried to look it up was in the earlier days of the Internet, and I didn’t have much luck finding info on it at the local library.

  52. says

    PZ noted that he doesn’t really care for the inclusion of scripture in President Obama’s address to the nation. Well, curiously, neither do some of Obama’s rightwing opponents … but for an entirely different reason. Kind of amusing in a way.

    The hosts of Fox & Friends were incensed that President Obama quoted scripture in a primetime address detailing his upcoming executive action on immigration, challenging him to a “scripture-showdown” and claiming it’s “repugnant” for Obama to “lecture us on Christian faith.” […]

    According to [co-host Elisabeth] Hasselbeck, Obama used the Bible to guilt people into supporting his executive action, and that’s “not what the scholars behind the Bible would interpret as proper use, perhaps.” […]

    References to his Christian faith are commonplace in Obama’s public speeches, but that hasn’t stopped Fox & Friends from attempting to build a brand around questioning Obama’s religious values, even pushing the ‘Obama is a secret Muslim’ myth.

    http://mediamatters.org/blog/2014/11/21/now-fox-amp-friends-is-upset-that-obama-is-quot/201665

  53. says

    Mike Huckabee was also upset that President Obama quoted scripture:

    […] “I always thought that Scripture was eternal and unchanging, but apparently, now that Obama is President, Scripture gets rewritten more often than Bill Cosby’s Wikipedia entry,” Huckabee, an ordained Southern Baptist minister, wrote on his Facebook page. […]

    “Funny how, for the first six years of his Administration, even the two years when he had unstoppable majorities in both houses [not true, Dem majority lasted 4 months], Scripture did not compel immediate action,” Huckabee wrote. “But two weeks after the final election he’ll have to deal with, suddenly, Scripture requires us to do this.”[…]

    “It’s similar to the way that his Biblical beliefs led him to oppose same-sex marriage as a candidate for election,” Huckabee wrote. “Then when he needed big campaign donations from gay liberals for his reelection, the Bible suddenly got rewritten.”

    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/225048-huckabee-obama-rewrites-scripture-more-often-than-bill-cosbys

    Huckabee doesn’t really make sense, but this is the sort of thing I’m seeing from most rightwing sources, so, apparently, they believe it was offensive for Obama to quote scripture. BTW, Huckabee is considering running for president in 2016.

  54. says

    “He is one of the most secular presidents, perhaps the most secular president we have ever had, yet, he invokes scripture in the speech.” That’s Bill O’Reilly speaking.

    Not sure how that squares with the other Fox News stance: that leaders in secular positions can be Christians and experience no cognitive dissonance.

    Also, “most secular” might go to Jefferson, the guy who edited his bible by snipping out all the text that referred to Jesus as divine.

  55. andyo says

    Just a comment on the title of this…the can’t truly be full citizens until they are no longer barred from certain (very high) jobs by reason of their place of birth.

    I don’t know what PZ meant with the title, but this thing doesn’t even have a chance of granting them a green card (permanent residence) let alone “citizenship”. In fact, someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I’ve read that this can be reversed in the future, leaving all these people right out in the open to be deported. Since this is for people who have lived in the US for at least 5 years and have children, then a very high number of them can probably wait a few years, and have their “citizen” kids arrange real papers for them when they-re 18 instead.

  56. chimera says

    68. Andyo. This happened in France, same sort of deal and lots of people who came out of hiding were later deported. If I were in this situation, I’d probably stay low. Very tough decision.

  57. says

    Dinesh D’Souza has come out in favor of spanking President Obama. This is just one example of right-wingers infantilizing the President as a way to make him seem like less than a man, not fit for office, etc. Mostly, these efforts just reveal the inner workings of a damaged mind.

    […] D’Souza called Obama an “extremely spoiled brat” who has “been a spoiled brat since he was two,” insisting that the president is acting like a misbehaved infant who wants to “see whether you spank him or not.”

    “And the big question is, will the Republicans now do what is needed and spank him?” D’Souza asked. […]

    Right Wing Watch link.

  58. says

    A Cliven Bundy-like fellow has suggested that county sheriffs arrest President Obama:

    […] Anti-immigrant activist William Gheen urged county sheriffs to apprehend the president […]

    “If the sheriffs are heading to Washington, how about suggesting the sheriffs take some of their best men to D.C. and they use their power and ability to arrest the president of the United States?” Gheen said. “I think if the sheriffs are going to Washington on Dec. 10 and the president continues to violate the Constitution of the United States, that they should consider arresting the president of the United States. What if the sheriffs decided to use their power to do this?”

    Right Wing Watch link.

  59. howardhershey says

    I would argue that U.S. immigration policy has always been racist, right from the point where it was no longer legal to import slaves to the anti-Irish Know-Nothings to the anti-Chinese laws to the laws designed to exclude Southern and Eastern Europeans (particularly those that were Jewish), to those favoring or disfavoring immigrants from Communist or our-side autocrats and now attempts to keep Latinos illegal by not addressing the disconnect between our need for certain workers and willingness to allow them in. If you want to find out the worst aspects of America, our immigration laws would certainly be a good starting point.

    If Republicans are unwilling to install (or pay for) a fascist state that can round up all 11 million or so undocumented aliens presently in the U.S. and expel them all extra-judicially with no concern for details like their likely deaths at the hands of their governments or extra-governmental thugs, then any President will have to make discretionary deportations. If the Republicans want to prioritize deportation of people who have been in America since early childhood, disrupt families by deporting mothers or fathers of Americans, disrupt industries by deporting nannies, bus boys, cooks, plasterers, gardeners, garment workers, meat-packers, and day laborers as being at least equal in Importance to deporting criminals, they should pass a law saying just that. Otherwise, they should shut the fuck up rather than whine when a President does what he has to.

  60. What a Maroon, oblivious says

    In fact, someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I’ve read that this can be reversed in the future, leaving all these people right out in the open to be deported. Since this is for people who have lived in the US for at least 5 years and have children, then a very high number of them can probably wait a few years, and have their “citizen” kids arrange real papers for them when they-re 18 instead.

    It’s an Executive Order and, as such, doesn’t have the force of law. The US Constitution gives Congress the power to make law; the President’s job is to carry out those laws. But (and with the disclaimer that IANAL) it’s entirely impractical to deport all 11 million undocumented aliens, so the Executive branch has to make some decisions. So there’s some discretion in who the administration can target for deportation, and essentially what Obama has done is set the policy for his administration.

    But since it’s administration policy and not law, the minute the next president is sworn in they could sign a new order reversing Obama’s policy (for that matter, Obama could change his mind tomorrow and sign a new order). That’s what happens with funding for clinics that offer abortion–when a Republican is sworn in, they ban it; when a Democrat is sworn in, they allow it.

    So anyway, Obama’s action is helpful, but it’s not a substitute for a law.

  61. justanotherguy says

    I’m pretty cynical about any politician’s motivations for doing anything. I think Obama took this action not because he or his party care about the well-being of immigrants (that’s just emotional pandering), but simply to gain the votes of immigrants and to put the Republican politicians in the position of having to risk losing the support of immigrants by fighting this action at a time when the minority population of the US is increasing. It’s a calculated move.

    What you never see becoming law are proposals from either party to 1) step up the deportation of illegal immigrants or to step up the prosecution of those businesses which hire illegals or 2) grant amnesty to illegal immigrants. Those are proposals you’ll never see brought up unless the proposing party is certain it will be blocked by the other party.

    Both parties are completely dependent on money from businesses and wealthy individuals who depend on cheap labor. You may hear talk about amnesty on the Democratic side, or about deportation and increased enforcement on the GOP side, but it will always be just talk to appeal to voters, and that’s by design of the politicians of both parties.

    The Democrats and GOP fight each other for a bigger share of the fundraising pie. Neither party actually fights for their constituents. When it’s so easy to blame political gridlock for doing nothing, why should they?

  62. fishy says

    Exceptionalism. Have I spelled that word correctly? The arbiter of these things does not think so. Whatever.

    It is a word the Republicans like to use. We like to think of ourselves as special, different, cast apart from the rest, but able to hold our heads high because we gain strength from our specialness.

    What makes us Americans is our shared commitment to an ideal, that all of us are created equal, and all of us have the chance to make of our lives what we will.

    What makes us, “exceptional,” would have been a better choice.

  63. Saad says

    Lynna, #70

    Dinesh D’Souza has come out in favor of spanking President Obama. This is just one example of right-wingers infantilizing the President as a way to make him seem like less than a man, not fit for office, etc. Mostly, these efforts just reveal the inner workings of a damaged mind.

    Yup, because it’s Barack Obama who has been breaking the law.

    Back in your halfway house, Dinesh! Shoo! Shoo!

  64. David Marjanović says

    I’m pretty cynical about any politician’s motivations for doing anything. I think Obama took this action not because he or his party care about the well-being of immigrants (that’s just emotional pandering), but simply to gain the votes of immigrants and to put the Republican politicians in the position of having to risk losing the support of immigrants by fighting this action at a time when the minority population of the US is increasing. It’s a calculated move.

    Well:
    1) Obama really doesn’t strike me as a sociopath;
    2) he’s not up for reelection – if he’s a sociopath, he can’t care about gaining votes.

    I think it’s calculated only in the sense that it’s becoming more and more urgent, Obama has noticed that, and Obama has just seen what happens when his party runs on being to his right.