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I must be a gamma, too

True confession: my wife has been on a historical feminism kick lately: the other day she forced me to watch Iron Jawed Angels with her. This evening we’ve got the PBS documentary One Woman One Vote on the TV right now. So it was amusing that Vox Day and David Futrelle had a ‘debate’ over whether women should be allowed to vote. Actually, Day proposed a debate on a subject that was settled in the USA about 95 years ago, and Futrelle laughed dismissively, and Vox Day declared himself the winner.

Critics such as Futrelle and Scalzi are of low socio-sexual rank, which means that they have the usual gamma male’s distaste for conflict that has a clear winner. The reason is that as long as they can avoid losing, they can still claim victory in their delusional gamma style.

Wait. But it was Vox Day who threw out a few non sequiturs and declared himself winner…this is confusing.

Anyway, the two movies were pretty good, you can watch them yourselves at the links.

So, we’ve had a weekend of late 19th/early 20th century feminism at my place. Any recommendations for movie/documentary treatments of feminist history in the 1960s onward? I’ve worked my way from beta to the gamma badge, I think, and now I’m looking for credit towards delta-hood, and — dare I aspire so high? — to someday make epsilon.

Comments

  1. screechymonkey says

    Uh, I’m probably going to regret asking this, because even a glimpse into Vox Day’s mindset is troubling, but… by what standard is Scalzi “of low socio-sexual rank”? He’s a successful author, fairly famous in his field, enjoying some financial success with the potential for more to come as his works get made into television and potentially movies. Aren’t those the measuring sticks that are used by the kind of people who like to toss around terms like “socio-sexual rank”?

    (I left out Futrelle because I don’t know anything about him.)

  2. Brian says

    I’m glad I’m a gamma. Betas have to work too hard. And I sure wouldn’t want to be dumb like those deltas!

    Wait, I think I crossed the streams.

  3. Anton Mates says

    If Jesus can be both the alpha and the omega, you can pull it off too! Just gotta practice that quickswitch at your local BDSM club.

  4. hexidecima says

    classic nutless wonder tactic, declaring yourself the winner. Nothing is more of a clue to show who really lost.

  5. says

    VD says:

    This is why we are winning. This is why we will win. Our critics and our enemies have to run away from us every single time we enter a new arena. All we have to do to continue convincing men of the truth of our perspective is to avoid getting lazy, to keep developing and presenting refined ideas, and to remember that rhetoric is no substitute for dialectic. And every time there is a minor encounter of this sort, more people will see that there is no rational foundation for the feminized dogma our opponents are so ineptly defending.

    Yeah dude, you’re totally winning ::eyeroll::
    Is this guys ego as big as his flaming sword?

  6. martincohen says

    As for future history, I fear that “The Handmaid’s Tale” may become truer than I would like.

    So much that’s going on makes me despair.

  7. Louis says

    I thought “low socio-sexual ranking” was something teenagers do in their bedrooms until I discovered better pronunciation.

    Actually, in review, I think what Teddy was doing was precisely low socio-sexual {ahem} “ranking”. That or Pigeon Chess.

    Louis

  8. Ed Seedhouse says

    Isn’t there that whoever claims to have won an argument is by that fact the loser? If not perhaps there should be.

  9. Ed Seedhouse says

    Isn’t there a rule that whoever claims to have won an argument is by that fact the loser? If not perhaps their should be.

    Sorry, I’m used to sites that let me edit a comment after posting and it obviously makes me sloppy.

  10. yazikus says

    Pre-1960’s but a fun watch is Top Secret Rosies: The Female Computers of WWII and last I checked it was instant streaming on Netflix.

  11. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    If Jesus can be both the alpha and the omega, you can pull it off too!

    Piffle. Jesus didn’t pull it off til his 30s and didn’t survive the strain.

    I’ve gotten myself into the heart of feminism: published by icons of the feminist press, for one.

    And yet…I sacrificed maleness to do it.

    Α/Ω? It’s all me.

    Checkmate, testicled athiests!

  12. says

    Well, shoot, PZ, unlike you I don’t even have a job right now – unless you call all my home-dad chores of keeping the house respectable and full of food, cooking said food, pickups/dropoffs at childcamp, entertaining three year-old daughter at home two days a week, sorting out the garden et freakin’ cetera while Dr McWifey heals the sick & the afflicted six days a week a “job” (which I of course do and woe betide anybody if they argue that point) – so I’m not winning bread or hunting mammoth or doing anything else to earn my Man Cards. What would that make me in the eyes of these puffed-up, preening pontificators? A fuckin’ Omega? If so, that’s fine, I’ll take it. If being one of these much-vaunted Alpha Males requires me to be an insufferable arsehole with epic delusions of how amazing I am combined with severe deficiencies in logic, Words™ and a baffling unappreciation of the realities of the world around me, I’m perfectly happy occupying the other end of the alphabet. May the Rift ever widen, deepen and fill with Megalodons.

    (btw Horde, and apologies for the blatant plug, but in the midst of holding aforementioned fort I’m after some freelance writing work [the kind one can do from the kitchen table], so feel free to poke me if you need words arranged in a particular order about a particular topic or know of any avenues)

  13. says

    Not a documentary but a good funny movie about feminism is Real Women Have Curves. My daughters both thanked me for making them watch it, even though it wasn’t anime.

  14. carlie says

    Uh, I’m probably going to regret asking this, because even a glimpse into Vox Day’s mindset is troubling, but… by what standard is Scalzi “of low socio-sexual rank”?

    I think it’s that Scalzi has won Hugo awards, and VD got his people to game the system so that he was nominated for one, and that made everyone in the scifi world mad, except Scalzi even said hey, if it’s within the rules then you can’t complain. So basically, it’s because VD is incredibly jealous of Scalzi and wants to be him, so of course that means he has to diss Scalzi every chance he gets.

  15. says

    This is why we are winning. This is why we will win.

    We’re talking, like, Charlie Sheen “winning” here, right?

  16. Maureen Brian says

    I second morsgotha’s Made in Dagenham – a brilliant movie and close enough to what actually happened to make sense. Funny, too. How you are going to make contact with it in your neck of the woods, I’m not sure.

  17. quasar says

    Oh god. I just… I just… oh god I just…

    I COMMENTED OVER THERE!

    I’m sorry! I couldn’t help myself! It was just so… so… urghrurghrghrgrh get it off get it off excuse me I need to go for a shower…

    (maybe it won’t get past the vox ego barrier? Oh god I hope so. I don’t want my username there…)

  18. faustus says

    I’ve just had a quick look at Vox’s Conservapedia page. It seems P. Z. is central to the page, for refusing to debate him. I’m sure they’ll be over the moon when they see his scepticism to women voters.

  19. Moggie says

    Maureen Brian:

    I second morsgotha’s Made in Dagenham – a brilliant movie and close enough to what actually happened to make sense. Funny, too. How you are going to make contact with it in your neck of the woods, I’m not sure.

    Sally Hawkins is so good!

  20. donaldmartin says

    For a great film about the lack of women’s rights, may I recommend Deepa Mehta’s Water. It also exposed religion’s role in keeping women deprived.

  21. says

    On the plus side VD has been responsible for some great comments (and wonderfully bad puns).
     
     
    @ CaitieCat, getaway driver & Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    Why do policemen in Paris have roman numerals on their helmets?

    Well, they’d look pretty daft with French letters on them…

  22. dianne says

    by what standard is Scalzi “of low socio-sexual rank”?

    Scalzi is a true “self-made man” in the libertarian sense: He started life poor, went to college on financial aid, found something he was good at, worked hard, and succeeded. But he refuses to credit only himself and actually acknowledges that he had a lot of help and got to play on the easy setting, being a white, straight, cis-man. Vox Day can’t forgive Scalzi for being everything he wants to be–and yet refusing his mindset.

    Also, TMI and Kv0k: I went to college with Scalzi. He’s sexy. Way sexier than Vox Day and his flaming sword could ever hope to even fantasize about being. And he is (or at least, at the time, was…I haven’t kept up with him since) a genuinely nice person. And wealthier. In short, there’s simply no reason why any straight woman would pick VD if Scalzi were available. VD’s probably just upset about being such a loser.

  23. roggg says

    What do I have to do to get a pi ranking? I love pie. Well maybe not in that way… maybe.

  24. says

    I just had to register to recommend The Punk Singer, a documentary about Kathleen Hanna. It does a good job of exploring the Riot Grrrl movement of the ’90s and surrounding subculture.

    It’s available on Netflix and (I assume) elsewhere.

  25. says

    Any recommendations for movie/documentary treatments of feminist history in the 1960s onward?

    Not a movie, but kinda like a documentary with artistic flair is the exhibit of Judy Chicago’s work at the Brooklyn Museum, Elizabeth A. Sackler Center for Feminist Art, Herstory Gallery, 4th Floor.
    http://www.brooklynmuseum.org/exhibitions/judy_chicago_los_angeles/

    I particularly enjoyed “The Dinner Party,” which is now a long term installation. It’s one thing to talk or write about it, and another to see it. Walk around the triangular table and be struck by the power. You’ve got 48 feet of glory on each of three wings of the table.
    http://www.brooklynmuseum.org/exhibitions/dinner_party/

    The Dinner Party, an important icon of 1970s feminist art and a milestone in twentieth-century art, is presented as the centerpiece around which the Elizabeth A. Sackler Center for Feminist Art is organized. The Dinner Party comprises a massive ceremonial banquet, arranged on a triangular table with a total of thirty-nine place settings, each commemorating an important woman from history. The settings consist of embroidered runners, gold chalices and utensils, and china-painted porcelain plates with raised central motifs that are based on vulvar and butterfly forms and rendered in styles appropriate to the individual women being honored. The names of another 999 women are inscribed in gold on the white tile floor below the triangular table. This permanent installation is enhanced by rotating Herstory Gallery exhibitions relating to the 1,038 women honored at the table.

    Here’s the teacher or “educator” packet for The Dinner Party: http://www.brooklynmuseum.org/eascfa/dinner_party/teachers/Dinner_Party_Edu_resources.pdf (also features some good photos)

    Here’s the Teen Guide to Feminist Art: http://www.brooklynmuseum.org/education/uploads/Teen_Guide_to_Feminist_Art_0417.pdf

  26. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Y’know, like a with a little hat, maybe, or the c-with-a-goatee.

    I read this as “goatse” at first and I was like “but, wait, VD’s got that covered…”

  27. rossthompson says

    And [Scalzi] is (or at least, at the time, was…I haven’t kept up with him since) a genuinely nice person.

    Having met him a handful of times at signings and cons, yeah, he’s a nice guy. Of course, these are times when he’s “on”, and so might not be representative, but I get the impression that’s just what he’s like.

  28. coffeehound says

    Dianne @ 43,

    Vox Day can’t forgive Scalzi for being everything he wants to be–and yet refusing his mindset.

    I can’t also help but think that Scalzi’s response to the whole Hugo kerfuffle has magnified VD’s ire. In his warped little mind and with his ego he may interpret Scalzi’s response from one who doesn’t see VD as much of a threat as a writer( and really, he shouldn’t) and this would piss off VD to no end.

  29. says

    racissrick #56

    From the link in the OP:

    At this point Mr. Day – apparently oblivious to irony– declares himself the winner:

    But even in a short, character-limited exchange such as this, I was able to show Futrelle’s reasoning to be incorrect twice, so it is little wonder he does not dare risk a more in-depth encounter with me or one of the other men. The longer it went on, the more inconsistencies I would have been able to expose. Once he realized this, he promptly repeated his initial position and retreated.

    Clicking a link in the linked article, I find that that statement is, in fact,in VD’s post. Could I ask where you looked for said evidence?

  30. says

    racissrick #58

    That paragraph specifically refers to his exchange with Futrelle. It specifically describes Futrelle retreating in the face of of VD’s argument. VD is using a military metaphor to describe what he wishes to portray his defeat of Futrelle. He doesn’t actually use the word “win,” because it would no longer be a metaphor, now would it?

    Language; you’re doing it wrong.

  31. anteprepro says

    No, racissrick, Vox merely asserted that Futrelle retreated and that this is why Teh Menz will eventually and inevitably attain glorious victory over the non-alphas and teh wimmenz. I’m sure that is totally distinct from saying that he “won”. Totally.

  32. says

    racissrick:

    You are a clown, either he said he won or he did not, which oh btw just to clarify from the words of the man himself on whether he won the debate or not, “Again, note that I did absolutely nothing of the sort.”

    No, the clown is the person defending a racist, misogynistic scumbag like Vox Day. That would be you.

  33. anteprepro says

    racissrick, if I am an illiterate moron, I cannot begin to fathom what you are. Vox does indeed imply that he won the debate. Hence the word retreat. Hence Vox continuing to say “this is why we will win” and bragging about their superior rhetoric, etc.. The implication is clear that he believes he beat Futrelle. All you have to believe otherwise is blinkered denialism.

  34. Rex Little, Giant Douchweasel says

    Ed Seedhouse @16:

    Isn’t there a rule that whoever claims to have won an argument is by that fact the loser? If not perhaps there should be.

    By that rule, they both lost. Vox may have declared victory metaphorically, but Futrelle actually said “I win” in his first tweet.

    I think Futrelle would have done better to simply say “That question is settled, and not up for debate.” Sure, Vox would have spun that as running away, but who cares?

  35. suzidan says

    This absolutely my first comment. :) It’s not a movie, but have you ever read “The Story of Jane” by Laura Kaplan? Good read. Hat tip to my marvelously well rounded U of MN liberal arts education.

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