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May 15 2014

[Lounge #461]

My dream

My dream

This is the lounge. You can discuss anything you want, but you will do it kindly.

Status: Heavily Moderated; Previous thread

711 comments

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  1. 501
    chigau (違う)

    ohohohoh
    page 2

  2. 502
    rq

    Need some dramatic music with your aerobraking? The ESA can provide.

  3. 503
    rq

    Also, Saturn’s auroras.

  4. 504
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Rowan:
    Hugs. Depression fucking sucks.

    ****
    I came across these comments by film director David Goyer:

    Around 33 minutes into the podcast (full episode here), the conversation moved to She-Hulk, with Markus stating that the character has “the worst, most demeaning character name possible,” due to being presented as only a female adjunct to Hulk. That led to co-host Mazin calling the character “Slut-Hulk,” and Goyer describing her as “pretty chunky” and similar in stature to former WWF performer Chyna. Goyer then elaborated on his thoughts of the character, including describing her as a “giant green porn star.” Here’s the full quote:

    I have a theory about She-Hulk. Which was created by a man, right? And at the time in particular I think 95 percent of comic book readers were men, and certainly almost all of the comic book writers were men. So the Hulk was this classic male power fantasy. It’s like, most of the people reading comic books were these people like me who were just these little kids who were getting the shit beaten out of them every day — “What if I became giant, and could clap my hands and create a sonic boom?”

    And so then they created She-Hulk, right? Who was still smart. So it was like, I think She-Hulk is the chick that you could fuck if you were Hulk, you know what I’m saying? … She-Hulk was the extension of the male power fantasy. So it’s like, if I’m going to be this geek that becomes the Hulk, then let’s create a giant green porn star that only the Hulk could fuck.

    I agree with screenwriter Christopher Markus’ comments about the name ‘She-Hulk’. It defines her in relation to a man, rather than on her own merits (much the same problem I have with ‘Supergirl’).

    While I do agree that the Hulk can be viewed as a male power fantasy, I think Goyer is off the mark with regard to She-Hulk as there is no sexual component to the relationship between Jennifer Walters and Bruce Banner. Thus, the comics provide no payoff for readers with male power fantasies.

  5. 505
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    rq @499:
    My thoughts on Lounge appropriate material echo yours.
    I think it might be better to gauge each discussion on their own (assuming a discussion is even had; linking to a story is no guarantee that anyone will choose to comment on it, or even read the link–both of which are perfectly fine) and if things get too heated (or look to be heading in that direction), ending the conversation or shifting to the Dome would be best.
    However, I am more than willing to abide by the consensus (if one is formed).

  6. 506
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    My immediate reaction on hearing about Taiwan’s sex themed restaurant was “ewwww” and “icky”. Now I’m rethinking that (and wondering why I felt that way to begin with). Is there anything wrong-in theory-with a sex themed restaurant?

  7. 507
    Rowan vet-tech

    Tony, I think it would be less ‘ew’ if it weren’t so freakin’ tacky. It’s a restaurant version of little kids giggling and screaming “boobies!” or “penis!”

    For sheer wtfery I could see going there once, but definitely not as a repeat thing.

  8. 508
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Hello there
    *leaving lots of hugs*

    Tony
    Maybe it’s because countries like Taiwan aren’t exactly known for their consent culture…

  9. 509
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    BTW, I once overdosed on caffeine as a schoolkid. We were on a one week classtrip, the bus was in a traffic jam so we spent about 14 hours in there and we drank coke. Lots of it. We actually drank all the coke we had brought for the entire week.
    I never want to feel like that ever again.

  10. 510
    opposablethumbs

    TW for report on domestic violence (and apologies if I bork the html which I am almost definitely bound to do)
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .

  11. 511
    opposablethumbs

    …. and I did.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22610534

    On average about seven women and two men are killed by their current or former partner every month in England and Wales

  12. 512
    birgerjohansson

    I don’t recall the exact number, but Sweden also has shitty statistics about this category of homicide.

  13. 513
    birgerjohansson

    Sharing more Richard Kadrey’s prose.

    John Stark (aka Sandman Slim) a nephilim and (after escaping Hell) P.I. is making ends meet doing crappy jobs like this:
    .
    “Imagine showing a cattle prod up a rhino’s ass, shouting “April fool!” and hoping the rhino thinks it’s funny.
    That’s about how much fun it is hunting a vampire”
    .
    Stark is also working as a consultant for DHS for crimes that are suspected to be associated with supernatural creepy-crawlies. His sometimes boss, Marshal Wells, is a fed, a fundigelical (“mind your language!”) and an asshole, which makes their interactions less than cordial. Here Stark is studying the site of a killing:
    .
    “What Wells is looking at is worthy of some top-drawer staring. There’s an altar and above it, a six-foot-tall statue of Santa Muerte, a kind of Grim Reaper parody of the Virgin of Guadalupe. Despite her bony looks, she is someone her believers pray to for protection.
    I guess whoever owned the statue wasn’t very good at it. It looks like half of his blood is sprayed across Saint Death, the altar, and the walls. The rest is in a nice congealed pool of rust-colored Jell-O around what is left of his body. You can’t even call what’s on the floor a corpse. There isn’t enough of it. It looks like he tried to crawl into a jet engine, changed his mind, and tried to crawl out again.
    .
    I say, “I think he is dead.”
    Wells nods, still staring at the slaughter.
    “I’ll be sure to write that down. Anything else?”
    “This was no boating accident.”
    Wells looks at me like he’s a trash compactor and I’m week-old bacon

  14. 514
    birgerjohansson

    @ 493:

    “Crotch funk isn’t cool, but neither is destroying the environment, so the lesser of the two evils is obviously refusing to wash your blue jeans.”

    Baldrick is the target market! I finally learned something from “Black Adder”.

  15. 515
    Kevin, Youhao Huo Mao

    @Tony: (Re: She-Hulk)

    The thing I find most interesting about She-Hulk is that she is one of very few comic book characters who break the fourth wall regularly (like Deadpool.)

  16. 516
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    I bought a new computer.

    And I ended up with Windows8 (which takes some getting used to but I haven’t found anything really egregious yet). It has an i5 processor, a 750GB hard drive, great speakers, lots of RAM, huge screen,

    And I bought an HP.

    Yes, I know that Rawnaeris warned me about HP.

    But it was 2/3 off — a discontinued model at the store I was at. Less than $300 for a brand new pretty damned fast computer. Even if it only lasts two years, at that price I will still be pleased.

  17. 517
    rq

    So apparently Younger Brother (yes, the same one, opposablethumbs!) and his team just won First Prize at the Bergen International Wood Festival (no, not that kind of wood – and results aren’t online yet, that’s just an info link to the festival homepage). I’m so happy for him. Hopefully the internet will have pics up soon, the ones in his email are intricate and awesome.

  18. 518
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    rq:

    That’s really neat. Congratulations to him.

  19. 519
    rq

    If anyone wants to view the spiders I saw in my garden today, here you go. I missed the best photo-op on the yellow-green one, as we found it sucking the innards out of a small fly, but by the time I came back with the camera…

  20. 520
    bassmike

    rq pass on a ‘well done’ from me. I look forward to seeing the pics.

  21. 521
    Nick Gotts

    rq@519,

    Lovely photos! I think the spider in the pic after the snail is probably Araneus diadematus, which I spent some time studying around 25 years ago (modelling its web-building procedures), and the long-legged one could be some species of Nephila, but I’ve never seen anything like the yellow-green one.

  22. 522
    Lynna, OM

    Subjects and stories that outrage us don’t have to cause big verbal fights in the Lounge. If the subject does draw flame-war comments, then we can move it to the Thunderdome.

    Other news: Predictably, rightwing politicians are outraged by the new national monument that President Obama designated in New Mexico. (Previous comment in the Lounge. )

    http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/new-nm-monument-wont-affect-border

    […] To argue that the president “bypassed the legislative branch” is, at a minimum, misleading. It was the legislative branch that passed the Antiquities Act, empowering the executive branch the legal authority to designate national monuments. Obama had no reason to seek Congress’ permission to act on a power a previous Congress already endorsed.

    But on a more substantive level, Speaker Boehner appears to be raising a concern about border security with no basis in reality.

    A spokesperson for U.S. Customs and Border Protection explained that the designation “will in no way limit our ability to perform our important border security mission,” adding the the new policy actually “provides important flexibility as we work to meet this ongoing priority.” […]

    Washington Times bogus report.

    House Speaker John A. Boehner said the president’s unilateral move is exactly the type of action the GOP has been warning against, adding it shows the president isn’t serious about enforcing border security. […]

    “The president’s announcement today intensifies those concerns, demonstrating a level of audacity that is remarkable even for this administration,” the Ohio Republican said. “Once again, the president has chosen to bypass the legislative branch – and, in this case, do so in a manner that adds yet another challenge in our ongoing efforts to secure our southern border.”

  23. 523
    CaitieCat, getaway driver

    I’m okay with people posting things that might be hard to read, so long as people don’t mind indicating when they’re doing so generally. Yeah, folks will forget or not realize about something sometimes, and we can deal with the bumpy bits when that happens, but if (like Tony did) there can generally be a note of some sort when it seems likely to be hard for, say, abuse survivors or some other reasonably foreseeable group to read, that’d be no problem to me.

  24. 524
    opposablethumbs

    Huge congratulations to Younger Brother, rq! That’s great news!

    Also, thirding/fourthing etc. – I think we quite often make reference to hard topics here in the Lounge as well as socialising; it’s only if we disagree virulently between ourselves that it becomes important to move a conversation to the Dome, yes?

  25. 525
    Rawnaeris, Lulu Cthulhu

    Lol, Oggie at that price, I don’t blame you. The i5 and hard drive are the important bits.

    Let me know how you like Win8 without(?) a touchscreen. I find it to be unbelievably frustrating, but that could just be me.

  26. 526
    Rawnaeris, Lulu Cthulhu

    And i italicized instead of bolding… weird phone. *grumble*

  27. 527
    Kevin, Youhao Huo Mao

    So I was talking with Fiancee about this, but I wanted to put it here too.

    My sister-in-law shared this image on her Facebook feed. While all the Christians are glowing and happy about it, it just bothers me. The little girl loves her ratty old teddy bear, and in trusting God, he’ll give her a new, better one that she has absolutely no feelings towards.

    On a simple level, this is dumb because if I were to be offered a new, better toy to replace my beloved childhood treasure, then I would outright refuse. It’s not about the toy, but it’s about the emotions towards that toy.

    On a more philosophical level, what they ask for is time, rationality, and reason – things that I love now, I used to love when I was younger, but got stolen from me when I was brainwashed into Christianity.

    I don’t know what the old ratty teddy bear is supposed to represent, and knowing Christians, it’s supposed to be “sin” or “the old self” or any number of stupid analogies.

  28. 528
    rq

    Ratty old teddy bears are the best, and children should never be separated from them against their will. Besides, a large new bear isn’t always as awesome as the old one, with all stories attached.

    **Horde Signal**
    Could I please get a repeat on the procedure to put eye drops in small children? Was it let them lie down, put a drop on and let them blink it in? Is that correct?
    (Youngest got an eye infection in both eyes. Poo.)

  29. 529
    Rawnaeris, Lulu Cthulhu

    rq i don’t know if it’s right, but it’s still the only way to get eye drops in my eyes. I usually pool a bit near my tear ducts, as I am unbelievably stubborn about opening my eyes when wet.

  30. 530
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    Lazy? Maybe so.

    I hope not, since my understanding of the Thunderdome is that it’s the place the handful of regulars who obsessively conduct themselves in a way I find triggering as FUCK have been confined to.

  31. 531
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    RQ: what camera are you using? O.O

  32. 532
    chigau (違う)

    Azkyroth #530
    That is a grotesque mischaracterization of the Thunderdome.

  33. 533
    Lynna, OM

    All kinds of bad news out of Arkansas.

    The Republican gods are smiling: Voter ID law works to suppress votes

    The Voter ID law is working just as Republicans intended. It is suppressing votes. The Forrest City Times Herald reports that the ID requirement in the new law caused 83 of 102 mail absentee ballots in St. Francis County to be disqualified. […]

    You’ll remember, too, that the genius Republicans who wrote this law failed to provide a way for absentee voters to get down to the courthouse to correct failure to include an ID. Not that many of them likely are able to do so, otherwise they wouldn’t have voted absentee in the first place. […]

    Speaking of Voter ID: The Pulaski County Election Commission meets at noon today. It will discuss misapplication of the law by election officials, a misapplication that has occurred statewide.

    Election clerks […] are operating under the assumption that the required photo ID must agree with voter rolls on address and birthdate. It does not. The ID is strictly to identify the bearer by appearance. Voters may be questioned about birthdate and address. Their answers must agree with the book. They are not required to provide proof of birthdate or address. Why did this happen? It’s yet another obstacle to voting from an unconstitutional law that the results-oriented Arkansas Supreme Court allowed to stay in effect despite acknowledged flaws.

    This was just a lightly contested primary. Think how many votes in the Delta will be thrown out in the general election. That sound you hear is Sen. Bryan King cackling and rubbing his hands with glee.

  34. 534
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    I’ve avoided it for precisely those reasons, but in my very limited experience, no, I don’t find that it is.

  35. 535
    Lynna, OM

    The Koch brothers are hitting new lows as they fight the bankruptcy agreement for Detroit. The brothers threaten to fund ad campaigns against any Republican that votes for the deal. They are especially upset that a deal was brokered that cuts pensions only by 4.5%, and that saves some of the cities art hubs.

    […] The Koch brothers apparently want city workers and retirees to publicly suffer for the sin of having been union members. They want bondholders and insurance companies at the front of the creditors’ line, and don’t seem to care if the Detroit Institute of Arts has to sell off its paintings and sculptures to put them there. As they have in so many other areas of public life, two of the country’s wealthiest citizens are using their good fortune to make life far more difficult for those at the bottom of the ladder. […]

    NY Times link.

    The Koch brothers have also put up a website full of lies, calling the bankruptcy deal a “bailout” for example, and sounding some dog whistles about past black leaders (corruption, etc.) Too many union members, etc.

    At least a third of Detroit’s financial problems stem from the state cutting funds, with the funds being cut by Republican economically-challenged flea brains. There are lots of other issues, including a sordid history of disliking Detroit because of its predominantly black population, usurping the power of elected black leaders, etc.. Governor Rick Snyder is a Republican that has been led, with difficulty, down the road of compromise and reason. Now the Koch’s plan to scuttle the deal.

    The Koch brother’s plan is for bondholders and insurance companies to come first in line when it comes to bankruptcy payouts. Anything to make rich people at the top happy at the expense of pensioners who get an average of $19,000 per year, and at the expense of public institutions like the Detroit Institute of Arts.

  36. 536
    rq

    Azkyroth
    I use my (extremely) lowly Canon PowerShot SX120 IS. It pretty much works itself, though I usually play with the manual options (incl. focus). :)

    +++

    Disney scenes in real life – with some obvious and some interesting casting choices.

  37. 537
    cicely

    Kevin, I think it’s supposed to be about self-sacrifice—how you should be willing to give up the things you love best, for Jesus, in the understanding that he’ll give you something better.
     
    But that’s just my take.
    I could very well be wrong.
    -

  38. 538
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Seconding chigau, regarding Thunderdome.

  39. 539
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    rq, I think the proper procedure is for them to look up while you pull back the lower lid and drop it in. They should then blink a few times, but should not rub.


    So my sister (who works for a publisher) just sent me a large package.
    It contains:
    (1) “My Notorious Life,” a novelization of the life of a *ahem* “midwife” who practiced in early-20th-century NYC.
    (2) “The Book of Immortality: The Science, Belief, and Magic Behind Living Forever,” which I have no idea what to do with.
    (3) The autobiography of George HW Bush
    and
    (4) a silk scarf.

    I am BAFFLED.

  40. 540
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    I’m thirding what chigau said about the Thunderdome.

    Azkyroth:
    I recognize and respect your reasons for not wishing to visit the Thunderdome, but please don’t falsely characterize what happens there.

    ****
    Thailand military stages a coup:

    Bangkok’s rush hour traffic was as brutal as ever. The only difference on Thursday evening was that the music playing from everyone’s grid-locked radios came from military bands.

    On Thursday afternoon, Thailand’s powerful army chief launched a coup – seizing control of the government, detaining rival political leaders and blocking domestic and international broadcasters. The newly formed National Peace and Order Maintaining Council also imposed an overnight curfew and banned gatherings of more than five people.

    ****

    Swiss court rules Nazi salute is not racist when intended as a statement of political beliefs:

    Performing a Nazi salute is neither illegal nor racist if it is meant as a “personal statement”, a Swiss court has ruled.

    The Federal Supreme Court of Switzerland decided that the Hitler salute is not always punishable and is only a crime if the perpetrator is trying to spread racial hatred.

    I disagree with their reasoning. Political beliefs can be racist. We have the Tea Party/GOP here in the US as a perfect example. Racism is built into their platform.

  41. 541
    chigau (違う)

    Esteleth #539
    Maybe it’s like a game of charades.
    or a rebus.

  42. 542
    rq

    Esteleth
    Explaining that to a under-two-year-old will be challenging. :P I think Rawnaeris‘ way will work, with some manual assistance.

    Beatrice
    I mostly agree with chigau, but I have also previously felt the Thunderdome to be a comparatively unwelcoming place. Maybe because I don’t understand the dynamic completely. However, I can also understand people who don’t want to spend time there, for whatever reason that applies personally to them (and who don’t, for that very reason).

  43. 543
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Well, rq, if you’re feeling limber you could put something neat on the ceiling, ask Small One to look at it, and then stick the drops in.

  44. 544
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    I recognize and respect your reasons for not wishing to visit the Thunderdome, but please don’t falsely characterize what happens there.

    How have I “falsely characterized” it?

    There are regulars who habitually behave in comments in ways I find triggering. Those behaviors are mostly restricted in the Lounge due to the new rules that created it and the Thunderdome as separate entities and Thunderdome has no such restrictions. Thus I have every reason to believe posting in/following Thunderdome will mean encountering it and being triggered again.

    Unless the point is that others don’t find that behavior triggering, therefore I don’t get to either, I really don’t understand the basis of this objection.

  45. 545
    opposablethumbs

    rq, that sounds right to me. The drops form a tiny pool and then you blink. (Also, I’m not sure about this bit but I seem to remember doing each eye with the child’s head at a slight angle (i.e. nose not pointing straight up but just a tiny bit to one side) so that the drops run away towards the ear … but that may not be necessary).

    Good luck, and I hope the drop experience is not too much of a pain all round.

  46. 546
    CaitieCat, getaway driver

    My experience of Thunderdome is similar to that of Azkyroth; I frequently found very triggering things written by people who weren’t really given a space anywhere else, which led to me not wanting to be there, so I don’t go there.

    That other people don’t find it to be so doesn’t change that I do, and my saying so and agreeing with Azkyroth isn’t a ‘grotesque mischaracterization’ unless we accept that only a few of us get to define “objective” reality? Nor does it in any sense suggest that everyone in the place is always spewing triggers all over – but it’s very much a case of a barrel of apples, and with triggers, a few bad ones really does spoil the bunch for the people being triggered.

    Not interested in arguing about it, but I don’t want to see Azky being ganged up on for stating their opinion of their subjective experience of a place.

  47. 547
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    I’ve been productive today. I reorganized my cupboards.

    Along the way, I discovered that I own a waffle press.

    Everything safely stored, I decided to make the most of my discovery.

    I started with 3 cups of buttermilk. :D :D

  48. 548
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Good evening

    rq
    The photografic evidence you requested can be found on Twitter

    +++

    My sister-in-law shared this image on her Facebook feed. While all the Christians are glowing and happy about it, it just bothers me. The little girl loves her ratty old teddy bear, and in trusting God, he’ll give her a new, better one that she has absolutely no feelings towards.

    -I have a ratty old dog called Boomer. I’m currently in the process of carefully weaving extra yarn into his fur to keep him from falling apart. One day he will be more thread and yarn than original material, but I love him with all my heart. Only an asshole would want to take him away from me.
    -What a shallow view of children. As if they were only greedy materialists who would give up their best friend for profit.
    How christian…

  49. 549
    LykeX

    Nor does it in any sense suggest that everyone in the place is always spewing triggers all over – but it’s very much a case of a barrel of apples, and with triggers, a few bad ones really does spoil the bunch for the people being triggered.

    I think this may be a cause of some of the disagreement. Azkyroth’s comment might have given the impression that triggering bullshit was all that occurred in the Thunderdome, even though he never actually said that.

    As it happens, many comments in the Thunderdome are actually quite indistinguishable from the Lounge. Between trolls and arguments, there’s a lot of chit-chat and link exchange, just like here. However, even if many comments are innocuous, it only takes one nasty comment to ruin your experience and, given the lowered moderation, such comments surely occur. As a result, I can’t fault anyone if they prefer to stay out.

    In other words, I’m not sure there’s really all that much disagreement here.

  50. 550
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    LykeX:
    That was indeed the source of disagreement.

    I apologize for misreading you Azkyroth.

  51. 551
    rq

    Nick!
    Thanks for the spider IDs. If it helps any, the one you ID’d as Nephila is the same one that appears more spread out on a backdrop of sky. :)
    And yeah, I don’t know what the yellow one is, either.

  52. 552
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    http://www.mediaite.com/online/50-senators-send-letter-to-washington-football-team-urging-name-change/

    Pressuring the NFL to change the name of Washingtons football team.

  53. 553
    YOB - Ye Olde Blacksmith

    Its interesting* that Sterling can be banned and lose his team for being a bigot (without using any actual slurs AFAIK ) but an NFL teamname which is an outright slur is given a pass.
    .
    .
    *Disgusting, actually.

  54. 554
    cicely

    The source of the on-goingness of the problem with the football team in question is this complete waste of protoplasm.
    -

  55. 555
    gworroll

    Trying to trace down where our fulfillment process is having issues.

    Identifying what products we’re having trouble locating and shipping out is trivial- a multibillion dollar company has reports on pretty much EVERYTHING, there’d be no hope of keeping all the pieces coordinated otherwise. Identifying *why* they are giving us trouble, however, is quite different. Is our inventory inaccurate? Are people not actually trying? Do they not know where the stockrooms and clearance racks are? Did someone put it in the wrong place when it came off the truck? Do we have a bigger theft problem than we realized?

    And being the lead, it’s my job to fix it. Not necessarily being the person who actually goes out and does the fix, but my job to work out where things are breaking down and figure out how to fix it. Which may well be me going out and just fixing it, or may involve delegation down the chain of command(holy crap I’m high enough that this is even possible) or escalation up, or calling in help from other departments, or some mix of these. My job.

  56. 556
    YOB - Ye Olde Blacksmith

    Gworroll,
    I have the same problem with my cat.

    :)

  57. 557
    YOB - Ye Olde Blacksmith

    Evening Horde. Long time, no see.

    *Dumps pile of gently used but still comfy hugs*
    One for everybody, two or three if you need’em, i got lots.

  58. 558
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    I am threadrupt but I am freaking out. My boss’ wife called to in-so-many-words accuse me of having an affair with him. (Which, obviously, I am not doing). She called on his phone, I guess to see if I would answer. I answer my phone at night because if someone is calling late, it must be an emergency! I told her our relationship is professional, and she first said she was “hoping someone would take the high road here” then said “Thank you, I appreciate that.” Now I am second-guessing every friendly conversation he and I ever had, and feeling guilty even though I did nothing I think was inappropriate. This job was my long-term plan. Shit.

  59. 559
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    Portia
    *hugs* It sucks that someone else’s insecurities/relationship issues are spilling onto you like that.

  60. 560
    chigau (違う)

    Portia
    *hugs*
    That does suck.
    Tread carefully, your boss’s relationship with his wife sounds a bit problematic.

  61. 561
    rq

    Portia
    !!! Wow…

    gworroll
    I couldn’t figure out if you were complaining (this job sucks!) or proudly explaining (this job is amazing!). But good luck, at any rate!

    Hello, YOB! I hope you have been well!

  62. 562
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    gworroll

    Are people not actually trying?Did someone put it in the wrong place when it came off the truck?Do we have a bigger theft problem than we realized?

    Based on my experience working for multi-billion dollar corporations, I’m betting that it’s a combination of these, especially the first two, and that the root cause of all of them is the the employees in question are too underpaid, understaffed, poorly treated, and/or overworked to give a shit about customer fulfillment. That’s almost always the underlying problem, in my experience. Granted, there’s often a side order of the metrics being something that a work crew composed of androids designed for the task by demigods couldn’t meet.

  63. 563
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Portia,
    That sucks. *hugs*
    Seconding others’ advice

  64. 564
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    When ypur day starts with a kid yelling at you that they want summer (because the rainy weather is apparently my fault) and a guy who almost crashes into your car because right of way is obviously too complicated and he’s been living in this estate since yesterday (I know they moved here at the same time as we did). Because what right does a woman have to take up space on the road when a man needs it?

    Portia
    Big hugs
    It’s not you, it’s them. If you weren’t working there she’d accuse somebody else.

  65. 565
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Also, listen to Giliell!

  66. 566
    Nick Gotts

    Azkyroth,

    my understanding of the Thunderdome is that it’s the place the handful of regulars who obsessively conduct themselves in a way I find triggering as FUCK have been confined to.

    and:

    How have I “falsely characterized” it?

    Very few if any regulars have been confined to Thunderdome. Possibly one or two (I’m not giving the names because I’m by no means sure this is so). Many regulars who have not been confined comment there frequently, including a considerable number who also post here. Confinement to Thunderdome generally turns out to be a preliminary to the confined non-regular (i.e., they are usually a recent arrival) disappearing from Pharnygula: either by complete banning, because those so confined either break their confinement or resort to outright racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic/ableist/etc. slurs; or voluntarily, presumably because even the most obsessive troll gets bored or discouraged before very long.

    That’s how you have falsely characterized Thunderdome.

  67. 567
    Nick Gotts

    Portia, how horrible! I can’t recall, is your boss the head honcho, or is there someone higher up the chain, or at an angle to it, in whom you could confide? It might turn out, for example, that his wife has made similar accusations (which might even have been justified) before.

  68. 568
    opposablethumbs

    Shit, Portia, that is an imperial-grade pain in the arse. It’s wounding to be accused of something that you not only did not do, but (it’s a safe bet) would never do. And to have this happen so as to screw things up at work is a whole other can of worms in its own right. I’m so sorry!
    Do you think you need to take the initiative once you’ve got your breath back and go and talk to her, maybe even face to face, to make sure this isn’t allowed to sully your position in the workplace generally? Or get your side in first with any other people at work? These things are delicate and tricky, of course, because only you can judge whether she or anyone else will leap into “the lady doth protest too much, methinks” mode or whether they will actually see sense.
    It’s a bugger to deal with, and I’m really sorry. Giliell is right, of course – if you weren’t there, this accusation would almost certainly be levelled at somebody else.
    And you may have to avoid your boss except in the presence of others :-(
    .
    .
    Good to see you again, YOB! And good luck, gworroll (Dalillama is right …. do you have any way you can improve incentives, even if only a fraction?)

  69. 569
    rq

    Nick
    I think the yellow-green spider is the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misumena_vatia“>yellow crab spider, but it was fairly large for the species. I’m still not sure what the fat green spider is.

  70. 570
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Well, at least the election results form the Netherlands don’t seem too bad. Wilders lost a lot of votes.

  71. 571
    bassmike

    Portia that’s a horrible situation to be in. As others have said: it’s a delicate balance between asserting your innocence and not appearing to be trying too hard. If this woman has the thought in her head, it’s very difficult for you to persuade her otherwise. It may be that someone ‘independent’ can show her the truth. It reminds me of conspiracy theorists; it’s hard to change their minds. I sincerely hope that it gets sorted out soon.

  72. 572
    Nick Gotts

    rq@569,
    I hadn’t realised the yellow-green and green spiders were different! But looking carefully I see they are, although the body shape is similar. Interesting that the yellow crab spider changes colour by exuding a yellow pigment onto its outer cell layer, or excreting it from there, depending on the plant it’s living on.

    Giliell@570,

    That’s good news! Rather unexpected, according to reports I’ve read – and exit polls can be wrong. The BBC says not even exit polls will be published until Sunday by them, in line with the law, although apparently some newspapers interpret it differently and have published the Dutch exit poll. In the UK, our equivalent, UKIP, have made considerable gains in local elections in England, which indicates they will do well in the Euro poll as well, but Labour have also gained – it’s the governing coalition parties that have lost council seats.

  73. 573
    birgerjohansson

    Portia,
    Hugs, if you want them.

    /// /// ///

    A socks themed restaurant might be a bit odoriferous.

    //////////

    The spider looks juicy. White wine or red wine, I can not recall what is appropriate for spiders…

  74. 574
    rq

    Aerial photography. With shadowcamels.

    If Game of Thrones was drawn by Disney.

    And sharks? Simply misunderstood. More misunderstood than MRAs.

    +++

    birgerjohansson
    Don’t know about the spider, but the snail is one of hundreds in the garden…
    It has been recommended to me to put some beer out to attract a whole herd, which will then proceed to have a keg party at snail’s pace in the backyard, including loud heavy metal music, lots of inebriated snail-dancing, and trashing of the… Oh, wait, no, apparently the beer is to trick them into coming into my kitchen, where I shall turn them into escargots à beurre, with extra garlic. Personally I think it’s a waste of good beer. But then, I prefer bivalves anyway.

  75. 575
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Rq,
    Maybe that’s telling a lot about my day, but that was the funniest thing I’ve read/heard today

  76. 576
    rq

    Beatrice
    Either you’re having a really bad day, or that’s a huge compliment to me. :P Thank you?

    +++

    Found a blogpost that has a photo of my brother’s piece in Bergen (second photo from the top). No result photos up on the official site, yet. Boo.

  77. 577
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    birgerjohannsen, bassmike, opposablethumbs, Beatrice, Giliell, Nick, rq, chigau, Dalillama, thank you for the support and advice. It really is helping me not freak out so much. I’m gonna restock the hug truck for anyone’s taking :)

    Giliell,
    That was really comforting. Thanks. The reinforcement that it’s not about me was needed, weirdly.

    Nick Gotts,
    Boss is not the only boss, and I’m thinking about whether I should talk to another one and say “How do I deal with this” since we don’t have an HR department. I feel like I shouldn’t keep it to myself because that’s just isolating and if it blows up later the firm has the right to know what’s going on I think. And to insulate myself in case my boss is not the person I think he is and he starts sabotaging me somehow. (I don’t know if she was lying when she said he told her to call, or if he gave her his phone, or what).

    (This question of “Who should I talk to about it, if anyone?” is an open question for anyone who wishes to chip in)

    -

    Good Friday morning everybody! Do the USians among us have long-weekend plans, if you get a long weekend, that is.

  78. 578
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    As a sidenote – who does that, who deals with their marital issues like that!? What did she expect me to say?!

  79. 579
    rq

    Portia
    I think it sounds reasonable to speak to Other Boss, because Other Boss would probably be able to speak to Boss-With-Wife on a more professional level, without the power imbalance that would occur if you were to bring it up with Boss-With-Wife. If you feel comfortable speaking to Other Boss, of course. Otherwise… Dunno. I would sort of expect Boss-With-Wife to apologize to you, because that’s unfair of him to let his wife use his phone late at night to (basically) harass you for no good reason, and you’re supposed to have a professional relationship with him – not a late-night-heightened-emotional-phone-calls type relationship. Unless I’m missing something about the inter-employee dynamic in law firms. ;)
    I just hope she doesn’t try any repeat calls. :/

  80. 580
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Heh, not a bad day, just a bit stressful. And that was funny, and I was complimenting xou.
    Btw, a colleague might be visiting afriend in Edinburgh in August, which is a lovely coincidence. I feel a bit bad about tagging along, but…. I might

  81. 581
    LykeX

    Boss is not the only boss, and I’m thinking about whether I should talk to another one and say “How do I deal with this” since we don’t have an HR department

    That strikes me as a very good idea. Staying silent leaves you open to being thrown under the bus and someone higher up might be in a better position to deal with this in a productive manner.

    It sucks that they’ve drawn you into their mess. It’s unfair as hell and leaves you in a really awkward position. I hope it all works out.

  82. 582
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    rq;

    Good point. I was debating talk to BWW. I wonder if he even knows she thinks this. Idk. I don’t want to be alone in a room with him for any reason now. Makes work life even more stressful, YAY.

    LykeX:
    Thanks, that’s good advice.

    -

    It is making me angry how just being an unmarried young woman is a professional liability for me like this. Fucked. Up. (It has happened on the fd too, not quite so dramatically, but I lost opportunities so people wouldn’t say I was sleeping with this officer or that officer. Not even promotions, but people didn’t want to go on a day trip because, well, our parts complement each other so obviously it’d look like we’d be fucking instead of going to fire training).

  83. 583
    carlie

    Portia – I’m so sorry. :( I second all of the advice, especially to tell Other Boss. I’d add in to talk to Other Boss with Regular Boss present though – I’d probably approach it as “Hey Boss, this problem we have, I think we should bring in Other Boss on this so that we can discuss how to structure our interactions such as to avoid any appearance of impropriety” or something of the sort. It could also work to your advantage in general for your job – it would put boundaries around the amount that you contact each other, so that could limit expectations of things like “but I emailed you that file last night at 10pm and expected you to see it and have it done by this morning…” Nothing onerous, so nothing that could be used to say that you’re not a team player and aren’t pulling your weight, just things like “Ok, we’re only going to communicate on official channels, that being our work email (you have those, right? [email protected]? If not, time to institute it, because the practice looks unprofessional otherwise), and work phones. No calls on personal cell phones, no emails on personal email accounts. Set specific hours you are expected to respond to emails and phone calls (especially if the work phone is a cell phone that you’re supposed to take home with you), and those don’t get weirdly late at night (“I’ll respond to emergency phone calls up to 7pm, and emails up to 9pm”).

    Since those are just general good business practice, it might be good to have this instituted for the whole company. From what you’ve said I gather it’s a small office, just a few attorneys in business on their own with a few secretaries, that kind of thing? It’s high time to transition to a professional business environment instead of “a couple of plucky hard working pals who all put in 110% no matter what and do anything it takes to get the job done”, even if this incident wasn’t there to nudge it along. I may have the whole tenor of the office wrong, but if it’s small enough not to have an HR person, then it’s probably lax in a lot of work/life boundary ways just because nobody ever set up any rules.

  84. 584
    carlie

    Holy automatic linkage, batman! I hope there is no portia at a comanyname dot com who will now be spammed by bots tracking email addresses.

  85. 585
    YOB - Ye Olde Blacksmith

    Portia
    The suckage is strong in that situation. Advice? I got nothing. Hugs and commiserations offered.

    rq
    That sculpture is very cool.

  86. 586
    PZ Myers

    Updates may be delayed today. It was a very bad night last night — almost no sleep. And I have students to work with this morning.

  87. 587
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Thanks YOB :)
    -

    carlie:
    Yes, small office. We only communicate by work email and work cell phone but you are correct, the cell phone I have (only one I’ve got) is paid for by the firm. Boss actually left the office yesterday complaining of his chronic cardiac problems, so my thought was “He’s in the hospital, someone is calling to tell us we need to cover his court appearances tomorrow” : / In 20 minutes, we have the weekly attorney meeting. Two of the attorneys are out this week (there are only four others besides me) and so the two who will be present include Other Boss and Boss-with-wife. I was considering talking to OB before the meeting, bc he is usually here early too, and BWW is usually late. Then if OB thinks it appropriate we can the three of us discuss it? I don’t know. Thank you for the very thoughtful response, you are always so wise. I do have the company email address (hope another portia doesn’t get flooded! ha) so that’s something. *deepbreaths*

  88. 588
    YOB - Ye Olde Blacksmith

    Aaanndd tag fail right off the bat. Hope its not an indication of how the rest of the day will go. Too much to do.

  89. 589
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    rq:
    WHOA that is an impressive piece of woodworking. :D

  90. 590
    YOB - Ye Olde Blacksmith

    Hope you start feeling chipper soon, PZ.

  91. 591
    bassmike

    Portia I think you’re doing the right thing. Tackle it head-on at the earliest opportunity. Try and keep it as open and business-like as you can. Good luck and I hope it is resolved quickly and painlessly.

    TMI but……my ex-wife was constantly suspicious of any other women that I ever encountered. She never liked any of them and always maintained that they were ‘after me’. Needless to say this was a groundless suspicion. It was therefore ironic to me that she was the one who had an affair. /TMI

    This weekend we’re taking my daughter to stay with us at my mother’s place. It will be the first time that she’s slept anywhere but home or hospital! It may be fine, but it could be an exhausting weekend. Wish me luck.

  92. 592
    rq

    bassmike
    It will probably go better than you expect, but I’ll hold extra thumbs for you anyway!! :) Hope the weather keeps fine for you, too.

  93. 593
    YOB - Ye Olde Blacksmith

    bassmike
    Good luck! With my daughter (10 yo now) we started traveling with her when she was only a few weeks old. Started with overnights at friends and family, but soon extended out to all over. At first, it was a bit exhausting, but didnt take long and she could handle new places without a hitch. My hypothesis is that early exposure yields tolerance. My whopping one datapoint seems to support my hypothesis. :)

    Every kiddo is different so YMMV.

  94. 594
    Lynna, OM

    Stephen Colbert on the scandal of delayed health care associated with the Veteran’s Administration:

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/stephen-colbert-va-scandal

    Scoll down to watch video.

  95. 595
    rq

    So I got all excited about the new meteor shower apparently putting on its first show tonight… Until I realized that I won’t be seeing it. :( Prime viewing time is 11PM to 1AM pacific time, apparently, which means more than broad daylight over here.
    Boo.

  96. 596
    bassmike

    Thanks YOB and rq . I’m fairly optimistic that if she’s tired enough she’ll simply fall asleep anyway. Apart from anything else it’s the sheer amount of paraphernalia that we need to take for a couple of night. Just as well I have a largish car: what’s good enough for a double bass is good enough for a 2 year old!

    I too was looking forward to the meteor shower, but like you rq the timing isn’t right.

  97. 597
    YOB - Ye Olde Blacksmith

    rq
    Kinda the same boat here. Was super excited but then found out our likely viewing window will be 1am to 3am with cloudy skies. Boooooo!

  98. 598
    YOB - Ye Olde Blacksmith

    bassmike
    Hehehehe, I guess my redneck roots are showing, cause whenever I see your nym, this is what comes to my mind:
    bass

  99. 599
    Rawnaeris, Lulu Cthulhu

    Portia oh no! I got nothin’ for advice but have some *hugs*

  100. 600
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    Hi all. Threadrupt. I’ve really hardly had time to read lately – lots of things going on at home + summer term has started.

    But I think about y’all and still manage to read PZ’s OPs, even if I haven’t been reading and appreciating the Horde the way I should.

    I’m excited about the meteor shower, too. Clouds predicted to roll in @ midnight or so.

    Shower peak? 11-midnight, but probably a little closer to 11.

    It will be a close call. Clouds everywhere now, with rain. Supposedly the clear patch is from evening to midnight. Will it be clear enough? Can I convince the fam to drive out of town for this? Or will I be watching it from urban Canada?

    Don’t know yet. But I’m crossing my fingers.

    Meanwhile, sympathy, empathy, conga rats and other appropriate gestures of friendship to any and all as appropriate. I’ve put them all in gift bags. I’m sure your name is on one.

  101. 601
    rq

    bassmike
    Travelling with small children teaches you that you own a heckuvalot more stuff than you sensibly need… Yet it’s always useful stuff that you’re packing. :P It gets a bit better as they get older, but each new baby in the family surprised us yet again with the amount of luggage that came with it…

  102. 602
    bassmike

    YOB Wrong kind of bass, but there may well be something fishy about my playing!

    rq I agree. In general all sorts of things are easier as a child grows. But then again, some things are harder. That’s as much philosophy as you’ll get out of me on a Friday afternoon!

  103. 603
    rq

    bassmike
    I think that’s about as much philosophy as anybody needs on a Friday afternoon. ;)

  104. 604
    YOB - Ye Olde Blacksmith

    When Wife and I were taking prenatal classes for soon-to-be daughter, the nurse went around the room asking the fathers what we worried us the most about what was coming. Most of the answers were in the vein of healthy deliveries, proper baby care, sleep schedules, etc. She got to me and my answer was “Puberty”.

    I can handle spit up, diapers, and crying. The delivery didn’t scare me (real life up close human delivery = fascinating != scary). But the thought of dealing with hormones, changes, and sex… Terrifying. Well, that was almost 11 years ago. Guess what? Still terrified.*. “The Talk” was a bit easier than expected (in part, I think, because nudity is not taboo or gross, thanks to our Finnish Sauna experience) but still very uncomfortable for me. It really helped highlight some of my own irrational hang ups I had/have with sex, gender, etc. though.
    .
    .
    .
    *only a slight exaggeration.
    .

    /uncharacteristic verboseness

  105. 605
    bassmike

    Have a great weekend everyone.

  106. 606
    Lynna, OM

    Moments of Mormon Madness, failure to separate church and state category:

    Bob Church, a former prosecutor for Orem, has been appointed director of the Utah Prosecution Council, a statewide advocacy and training organization for public attorneys.

    In the council’s recent newsletter announcing his appointment and including a profile, Church listed as his favorite quote: “I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise.”

    He doesn’t identify the source, but it is an LDS scripture verse — from Doctrine and Covenants 82:10. […]

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/57972893-90/utah-granite-sltrib-district.html.csp

  107. 607
    Lynna, OM

    Oh, please. David Burton is on the board of NC-20, a supposed nonprofit that advocates for real estate developers. Burton has a degree in computer science, but appears as an “expert” on Fox News to lambast “climate-change alarmists.” Burton also runs http://www.sealevel.info. And now, the worst news, Burton is a serious candidate for North Carolina’s “Science Panel” that will be charged by legislative law to somehow magic away predictions of sea-level rise.

    Some background and other details from Daily Kos:

    n 2010, a science panel of the North Carolina Coastal Resources Commission predicted that sea level along much of the state’s 301 miles of coastline would rise more than three feet by 2100. A faster rise than shown by the historical average. Real-estate and other development interests went bananas. And two years ago next month, in a much-mocked move, the North Carolina Republican-controlled General Assembly passed a law commanding state agencies to stop using exponential calculations that predict an acceleration of sea-level rise in the state. Stick to linear projections of the rise based on the historical record instead, they said.
    Eventually, because of the international stink that arose over that action, the North Carolina House and Senate compromised by barring state-funded scientists from issuing any reports based on exponential calculations for next three to four years. Very clever, given that policy will be set based on the science panel’s next prediction to be issued by 2016.

    Two weeks after the legislators passed the changes in 2012, a new study was published showing that over the previous three decades, the sea level from Boston to Cape Hatteras in North Carolina was rising three to four times as fast as sea level in the world as a whole. If accurate, that would mean an even higher rise than the 39 inches the science panel predicted in 2010.

    Differentials in sea-level rise are no surprise to scientists, but many politicians seem unable to grasp the concept. At least when money is concerned. But then, many of them refuse to grasp the whole concept of global warming, period, either out of ignorance or greed.

    The coastal commission’s science panel is carrying out another command of the legislation barring exponential calculations. It is preparing a new forecast to be released next March. But the panel won’t try to predict sea-level rise until century’s end, merely for the next 30 years. That’s a clever move because the bulk of the rise will come in the later part of the 21st century, not in the next three decades. […]

  108. 608
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    rq,

    You prophet (that’s not a compliment)!
    It did turn into a bad day. Got pissed off at everyone (not everyone, just two colleagues, but it felt like everyone), so I even went home early despite planning to stay after for a couple of beers. Someone would be getting the evil eye all evening, had I stayed.

    In other news, leaving for a week out of town on Sunday, work related. But I’ll be online.

  109. 609
    Lynna, OM

    This is a follow up to my comment #535. The Koch brothers have failed spectacularly in their efforts to derail the Detroit bankruptcy settlement.

    Efforts by the Koch brothers front group Americans for Prosperity to scuttle the Detroit bankruptcy settlement were shot down in flames as the state legislature overwhelmingly voted yesterday to contribute $194.8 million toward the deal. This was the amount needed to ensure that the deal did not collapse and which saves the Detroit Institute of Arts’ priceless art collection while ensuring that retired Detroit pension holders don’t see their monthly retirement checks slashed.

    The vote on the 11-bill package was bipartisan and, for the most part, lopsided. The main bill passed by a 103-7 margin. It was a harsh rebuke of the meddling of the corporatist Koch brothers and other wealthy funders of AFP. […]

    It’s not all good news. Republicans did manage to make one anti-art move by passing a bill that prevents the Detroit Institute of Arts from raising funds from the communities that support it now.

    Democratic Representative Sarah Roberts from St. Clair Shores attempted to speak out about the impact of this bill and how it effectively takes away the rights of voters in Macomb, Wayne and Oakland Counties to make this decision for themselves.

    Republicans responded by cutting her microphone. […]

  110. 610
    Lynna, OM

    Adding my voice of support for Portia … and hugs. Office politics are notoriously difficult to negotiate. I do agree with others who have suggested that you find a way to steer the narrative in a direction that will have fewer negative consequences.

  111. 611
    rq

    Beatrice
    I’m sooooooooooooorryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!
    How can I atone???
    Chocolate-covered cherries?
    A nice local Latvian beer?
    Alan Rickman and a phonebook?
    :(
    I hope your evening is much nicer, though. Much, much nicer.

  112. 612
    Lynna, OM

    Sandra Fluke has written a thoughtful essay that outlines her reasons for running for the California State Senate.

    After all the crap she took from Rush Limbaugh and other rightwing commentators, she could use a win.
    Excerpt:

    Others sent cash in notes filled with hateful and misinformed rhetoric about helping me buy condoms because I was such a slut. Oh, I saved that cash, too. I’m putting it toward this campaign because I will never allow that kind of hate to stop me, or to strip young girls of their opportunities.

    That stuck with me, and reminds me why I’m running: to push back against the constant threat of extremism we face from the right, and to stand shoulder to shoulder with all of you who fight for progressive change.

  113. 613
    Lynna, OM

    Jon Stewart brilliantly skewers Republicans for suddenly losing their memories of how and when they previously screwed veterans. Daily Kos link.

    Scroll down for video.

  114. 614
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    rq,

    I would like some cherries, thank you.

    Oh noes, now I remembered I’m going to miss first cherries from the garden this weekend! You know what, I think you’ll get the evil eye.

  115. 615
    rq

    Beatrice
    :( That stinks, I’m pretty sure the evil eye is going to finish me off for the entire weekend. Some people (not you, though) really know how to use the pointy end of a needle against my sniny red balloon.
    And now I have to admit that I bought season’s first cherries today in the market-shop where I get all my vegetables… :(
    *quickly shunts a large package of chocolate-covered cherries via USB*

  116. 616
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    Okay, I’ve read the last hundred or so posts, so caught up from where I was when I asked the Dome question.

    Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

    I have never considered it a violation of Lounge etiquette for people to bring up their *own* stuff here, even if triggering (especially if triggering – this is where we get our support, right?!), but I didn’t really know if I had any obligations regarding news stuff that is obvious going to generate pissed off feelings and sadness/hurt, etc.

    Then, of course, there’s that thing where we post about it **because** it’s become personal to us, had a personal effect on us, even though we experienced it as news, not as witnesses/participants. It was confusing to me all of a sudden, and I want to do right by y’all. Thanks for weighing in with your thoughts, all who did.

    rq, you were right to point out Lynna’s MMM. Thinking about that comparison was helpful.

    I don’t apologize to Tony! for bringing up the topic, but I do hope, Tony! that you always felt like I support you as much as anyone else and was just trying to get clear on how I can best be helpful. I don’t want you singled out when it was really *my* problem with a lack of clarity on how and when I’m responsible to y’all.

    @Portia:
    I think talking with Other Boss is mandatory. I know it may be unpleasant, but it’s freaking mandatory. You know better than I about the importance of documenting this crap in case it becomes something later.

    May I add a warning?

    Many people are more willing to assume good of a woman who asks another woman “is my husband cheating on me with you?” than they are of a man who asks a man the same (mutatis mutandis, as necessary). But your question, “Who does this kind of thing?” doesn’t actually get a different answer based on gender.

    This kind of thing isn’t typically done by victims of betrayal. It can be. I won’t dismiss it. But victims of betrayal, well, for it to feel like betrayal it has to be something that they don’t want to be true. They wouldn’t, therefore, normally feel the confidence to assume it’s true without very, very persuasive evidence (which, since you aren’t having an affair, they don’t have). This is not to say that they would never feel that confidence, but it’s the abusive, controlling people that are more likely to be willing to make that call.

    This is not a good sign. I’ve worked with *very* many people abused in relationships. You just can’t tell things from a single phone call, especially with only the content repeated without attached tone, inflection, etc. But that behavior is far more consistent with someone willing to violate boundaries to protect what is “theirs” than it is consistent with someone respectful of boundaries who just wants to know where a relationship stands.

    I hope this job *does* work out for you long term, but talking about this early makes that more likely, not less.

    =========
    also @portia

    What you said about being a single woman and career injury.

    Fuck sexism and the horse it rode in on.

    =========
    @Tony!

    I realize that this comes from a place of white privilege, so salt to taste, but knowing a little bit about reading court judgements, I wonder if the court wasn’t ruling the Nazi salute “not racism” so much as ruling it “not racist according to the statutory definition of ‘racist’ in the criminal code’s hate speech provisions”. If you want me to read the English language translation of the decision, I certainly will. [there wasn't a link at the independent article, but I'm sure I could track it down if you want me to do so]
    But I certainly wouldn’t be surprised if a newspaper failed to fully convey the distinctions between, “not meeting the definition given to us in statute” with “not meeting the everyday definition commonly understood by people everywhere”. And I especially wouldn’t be surprised if a newspaper reporting in a language that is not the language in which the decision was written failed to make such a distinction.

    Last, and again, salt to taste, I’m okay with such things *not* being illegal. My thinking on criminalization of hate speech comes much closer to US 1st amendment jurisprudence than it does to EU anti-hate/anti-denigration jurisprudence.

    I’d be very happy if the Neo-Nazis and the climate change denialists got together and bought up the Maldives – giving the current citizens and residents sufficient nest-eggs to comfortably relocate in the Indian Ocean basin while creating a natural, insular (see what I did there) enclave in which the political and economic right can create their own, beautiful gated community to last for 1000 years…or until the sea level rises a meter, whichever comes first.

    but I really, really don’t trust the government with the power to throw people in jail for offensive communication. No matter how well intentioned, the powerful are always terrible at figuring out which things are offensive and harmful, and therefore must be criminalized, and which things are offensive but not harmful, therefore allowable. Case in point: Dan F’n Snyder.

  117. 617
    A. Noyd

    Portia (#578)

    As a sidenote – who does that, who deals with their marital issues like that!?

    Everybody! …on TV, anyway!

    But, sheesh, if she’s going to deal with her suspicions using only what she’s learned from TV, the least she could do is go the hire-a-PI route instead of the sudden-brazen-accusation-in-hopes-of-eliciting-a-confession route.

    (#587)

    Boss actually left the office yesterday complaining of his chronic cardiac problems

    Ooh, a man suspected of cheating who has a weak heart. If this was a TV show, you could totally solve this by hiring a prostitute to have sex with him on the floor of his office until he died of a heart attack.

    Well, actually, that would probably create way more problems, and if it was TV, the police would be super competent and track your hiring of the prostitute down within a few days. So, maybe not.

  118. 618
    rq

    Did you all know there’s now a Global Secular Council? Ophelia’s been writing about it and the terrible banner photo they have.
    But that linky there is a link to one of their recent? first? posts, and it is… well, read for yourselves, just don’t expect too much in enlightenment. Comment 9 on Ophelia’s latest post picks out a few problematic things, and I found a line or so about different types of clumps of cells in relation to labelling oneself a humanist, and I’m pretty sure every third person singular pronoun in that article is masculine… Very global, very inclusive and very diverse, the GSC.

  119. 619
    rq

    A. Noyd
    I could always come up with fake evidence to cover Portia’s tracks, because this being TV and all, and I would be kind of like a woman Dexter but in DNA, I could totally rock this show and save Portia.

    Crip Dyke
    ♥ always, thank you for caring so much.
    I’m really sad you’re over at that end of Canada.

  120. 620
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    rq,

    Mmmm. Cherries. Chocolate. You’re safe from the evil eye after all.

  121. 621
    rq

    Beatrice
    *fewf*
    Are you still going to need this second rather large package of chocolate-covered cherries?

  122. 622
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    @rq:

    We’ll meet up one of these days.

    Conga rats to little bro’ for nailing butts* at the Bergen-international-using-flat-long-sticks-to-make-things-that-nonetheless-give-the-impression-of-fluidity-and-movement competition.

    *see what I did there? I am so-so clever.

  123. 623
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    rq,

    We can share that one.

    Uuh, Crip Dyke reminds me of your brother’s competition piece I forgot to check out.

  124. 624
    Lynna, OM

    This is Moment of Mormon Madness, racism category, even if the perpetrator is not mormon (couldn’t find out the man’s religion).

    Hurricane, Utah, where Robert Keller lives, is 92.5 percent LDS (mormon) and 88.4% white. Robert Keller was influenced by the prevailing attitudes of Hurricane (pronounced “Her-ken” by the locals). The town is about 25 miles from the polygamist colony of Colorado City/Hilldale and has more polygamist families than most other small towns in Utah. Robert Keller may have been influenced by FLDS blatant racism.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57819120-78/keller-state-hurricane-charged.html.csp

    […] “If I catch that [n-word] around my daughter, I’ll kill the ass h— and then come find what stupid person brought him here in the first place,” the letter said, according to a probable cause statement from a Hurricane police officer.

    Another note found on the family vehicle also made racist remarks, the statement says. […]

    http://www.thespectrum.com/article/20140422/NEWS01/304220003/Hurricane-man-faces-federal-hate-crime-charges

    […] The letter also included statements such as, “You’re headed for some big trouble and you won’t like the outcome,” “If you want to live and raise n—— move to Africa,” “We don’t want this black trash in our complex,” and “Get this black a–hole out and keep him out, they only bring trouble.” […]

    http://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/archive/2014/05/21/mgk-federal-agents-arrest-man-accused-violating-familys-civil-rights-1/#.U39RVMb-B0g

    […] The officer contacted Keller who, according to the probable cause statement, admitted writing the letter. He also apparently told the officer he moved from Salt Lake City to Southern Utah in order to get away from “them,” referring to black people.

    Keller was booked into the Washington County Purgatory Correctional Facility on a misdemeanor charge related to violating the family’s civil rights. Keller pleaded not guilty to the charge. He was also able to post bail and leave Purgatory. […]

    Mr. Keller’s crimes were listed by local police as misdemeanors until the feds stepped in and classified the threats as a hate crime. Now there’s some pushback from Utah conservatives against federal intervention. Sheesh.

    The young black man against whom Keller aimed his threats in only 18 years old.

  125. 625
    Lynna, OM

    More on Robert Keller and his treats to kill a black teenager, text and video:

    http://www.kutv.com/news/top-stories/stories/vid_11422.shtml

  126. 626
    rq

    Crip Dyke
    Only so-so clever? I would say, so so clever!* (I giggled, okay? I admit it! I giggled.)
    * See what I did there?

  127. 627
    Lynna, OM

    President Obama tells it like it is:

    The truth of the matter is that the problem in Congress is very specific. We have a group of folks in the Republican Party who have taken over who are so ideologically rigid, who are so committed to an economic theory that says if folks at the top do very well then everybody else is somehow going to do well; who deny the science of climate change; who don’t think making investments in early childhood education makes sense; who have repeatedly blocked raising a minimum wage so if you work full-time in this country you’re not living in poverty; who scoff at the notion that we might have a problem with women not getting paid for doing the same work that men are doing. [...]

    The problem … is not that the Democrats are overly ideological — because the truth of the matter is, is that the Democrats in Congress have consistently been willing to compromise and reach out to the other side. There are no radical proposals coming out from the left.

    Washington Post link. I appreciate Obama highlight the false equivalence mode of reporting that has dominated too much of the media.

    So when you hear a false equivalence that somehow, well, Congress is just broken, it’s not true. What’s broken right now is a Republican Party that repeatedly says no to proven, time-tested strategies to grow the economy, create more jobs, ensure fairness, open up opportunity to all people.

  128. 628
    opposablethumbs

    Ugh, sorry for the crap night’s (non-)sleep, PZ. Hope you start getting some better health delivered to you soon.

    Aren’t you supposed to be, well, resting a bit?????
    .
    Hope it’s possible to clear the situation up before it even becomes one, Portia.
    .
    Happy weekend, Horde, and good luck for all your plans (especially any that may involve travelling with small children).

  129. 629
    Lynna, OM

    Bridgegate is the least of Governor Chris Christie’s problems. As he slides deeper into the hole he dug for himself, details of Christie’s financial failures are emerging. His policies have resulted in New Jersey’s bond rating being downgraded six times. Christie is a believer in the economic theory that if you give goodies and tax breaks to rich people, the economy will boom. His state is now one more example that can be added to list of those that prove that theory to be not just wrong but financially disastrous.

    http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2014/05/for_chris_christies_white_house_dreams_the_final_straw_moran.html“>New Jersey local news link.</a<

    […] Bridgegate was strike one. And that will get worse as key players scramble to save their necks by offering testimony to prosecutors.

    Jobs are strike two. Remember when he was a rookie governor, and a cocky Christie taunted other governors about luring their jobs away? It turns out the jobs have moved in the other direction.

    New Jersey has replaced only 40 percent of the jobs lost in the Great Recession, less than half the national average[…]

    The collapse of the pension reform is strike three. […] “They said it was impossible,” he told a national audience during his all-about-me speech at the 2012 Republican convention. “We did it.”

    As it turns out, he did only the easy part. He made public workers pay more for skimpier benefits, and froze cost-of-living adjustments for current retirees. […]

    The point is that both sides had to absorb their share of pain. Public workers did their part. Now Christie is saying he will not do his, that he will short the funds by a whopping $2.4 billion through next year. […]

  130. 630
    Lynna, OM

    I suppose everyone saw news coverage of Don Thompson, CEO of McDonalds, claiming that his corporation pays fair and competitive wages. Yeah right.

    Shareholders got $4.9 billion in 2013, Don Thompson got $9.5 million, and McDonald’s “team members” got an average of $7.75 per hour. And that doesn’t take into account the wage theft that occurs when 84% of low-wage workers are forced to work off the books or to work overtime with no pay.

    http://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/scary-new-mascot-not-mcdonalds-only-problem-263764035588

  131. 631
    Lynna, OM

    The NRA is calling Kansas a model state thanks to a new law that stops local governments, from regulating guns.

    http://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/kansas-governor-nullifies-local-gun-laws-263743555648

  132. 632
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Good evening

    *restocking the hug pile*

    Porta
    Extra-hugs for you.
    Sadly often women who are being cheated on blame the other woman way more heavily than their partners.
    Because you can’t hold a man resonsible for where he sticks his dick (and probably also because it’s much easier to hate on a strange woman than your own partner)

  133. 633
    Lynna, OM

    James O’Keefe fucks up again. He tries to put over a lie, like he did with the deceptive anti-Acorn video, but gets caught. Not that Fox News cared, of course.

    http://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/james-okeefes-latest-bogus-claim-busted-263774275727

  134. 634
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    @Giliell:

    And yet, men who partner with women *also* blame the woman involved.

    I don’t think “it’s easier to hate on the stranger” is the dynamic.

    I think “it’s easier to hate on the woman, and generally to blame women for anything bad that has anything at all to do with sex” is the dynamic.

  135. 635
    CaitieCat, getaway driver

    I’d also call it more likely, as bassmike pointed out from his own history, that BWW’s Wife is, in fact, strongly considering having a go herself, on the “What-You-Accuse-Me-Of-Is-Often-Projection” model. Liars think people lie, grifters think people cheat, and adulterers think everyone else is on the make. Guilty conscience given too free a tongue.

    Glad to see you’re taking some of the wise advice you’ve been offered, Portia. :)

  136. 636
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    rq

    But that linky there is a link to one of their recent? first? posts, and it is… well, read for yourselves, just don’t expect too much in enlightenment.

    Wow, wtf?
    Start with a racist tirade then say “don’t give me PC crap, I know it’s racist bullshit, but I like some of them”
    Let’s put it like this: They don’t disappoint me.

  137. 637
    CaitieCat, getaway driver

    By this model, of course, I am apparently suited for use in an IMAX theatre, for my empress-class projection skills. :)

  138. 638
    jrfdeux, mode d'emploi

    Q: What do you call it when you roll a D6 instead of a D8 for a Cure Light Wounds spell?

    A: A clerical error.

    *ba-dum TISH*

  139. 639
    CaitieCat, getaway driver

    I call it a -2 circumstance penalty on your next roll of consequence, for “Annoying the Gods”. :D

  140. 640
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    CD
    Oh, I think the “it’s easier to hate women than men” is totally part of the deal. I don’t think it’s “either or”

  141. 641
    YOB - Ye Olde Blacksmith

    -2 penalty because it was the wrong god.

  142. 642
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    -4 ytlanep if it was the wrong dog.

  143. 643
    jrfdeux, mode d'emploi

    Just saw this quote In Another Forum:

    Republican denialism grows when it is challenged. Especially by reality.

    What an interesting hypothesis. Anyone have any data points we can chart? :-)

  144. 644
    jrfdeux, mode d'emploi

    Oh dear. I’ve accumulated quite a collection of penalties to my next roll of consequence. :-)

  145. 645
    Rawnaeris, Lulu Cthulhu

    Is there a word for when you like the food at a restaurant, but it very pointedly disagrees with you?

  146. 646
    jrfdeux, mode d'emploi

    Rawnaeris, Lulu Cthulhu @ 645:

    “Mexican.”

  147. 647
    morgan ?! epitheting a metaphor

    Good afternoon from the left coast, dear Horde. The sun is shining and the wind is calm up here on the mountain. No fires. The influx of summer tourists to our tiny lake commences this weekend. I’ve been reliably informed that the inmates will be running the asylum until September. Sigh.

    Portia, your situation sucks huge rotten eggs. I endorse both Carlie’s and Crip Dyke’s good advice. The more sunshine cast on this situation, the better. And definitely soonest. Please let us know how things develop. If I were in your shoes I’d probably have cast caution to the wind and let my fury fly, bright, bold, and very loud.

    We are attending a barbeque on Monday with a small group of friends including my brand new honorary granddaughter. I’m bringing food, of course… Nana’s Killer Potato Salad and an Almond Flour Pound Cake with Vanilla Glaze, suitable for everyone with blood sugar issues.

    I’m leaving this huge pile of super fluffy hugs here, available to leap onto like a pile of autumn leaves.

    Be well, my friends.

  148. 648
    rq

    morgan
    The food sounds ooooo delicious.

    CaitieCat
    re: projection
    Do you do presentations, too? ;)

    Giliell
    Oh, keep reading, it just gets better and better and better… and better.

    +++

    *raises hand in embarrassment*
    I don’t get the dice rolling joke. Only the vague reference. Why is this funny?

    +++

    Some days I just smash up against that giant wall that has “No, you can’t do everything” written on it.

  149. 649
    jrfdeux, mode d'emploi

    rq
    Not to worry. It’s a pretty lame joke anyway. :-)

    ‘Splanation: So, one of the four primary classes in Dungeons and Dragons is a priestly class called the “Cleric”. Clerics are defensive spell casters, and are known for casting cure spells like “Cure Light Wounds”. When you cast Cure Light Wounds, you roll an eight-sided die (D8) and add points to the total rolled based on your cleric’s level. That total is the number of hit points you “cure” on the target of your spell.

    So using a D6 for the spell isn’t correct, and is arguably what some might call a clerical error. In the “clerk” sense.

    Told you it was lame. :-p

  150. 650
    CaitieCat, getaway driver

    Aww, rq, sorry to hear that.

    Dice-rolling: Clerics (a type of priest character in D&D-style RPG) cast healing spells; when they do, the dice they use to indicate the amount of healing accomplished by their magic are eight-sided, or “d8″ in the shorthand of the genre, rather than d6 (the common six-sided die). :)

  151. 651
    CaitieCat, getaway driver

    By Grapthar’s Hammer! Ninja’d!

    Roll for initiative! ;)

    (been stuck in bed a lot this week – new meds have side effects, ick – and reading through old Dragon mags)

  152. 652
    jrfdeux, mode d'emploi

    And for lunch today: A big bowl of steamed white Thai rice, a dish of kimchee, some braised eggplant in garlic, and pan-fried tofu in a light satay sauce. And a big pot of hot Jasmine tea. Om nom nom.

  153. 653
    Rawnaeris, Lulu Cthulhu

    jrfdeux *snort* no, I’m Texan, Mexican is (usually) fine. This was an “Asian” place…

  154. 654
    rq

    … And there’s an ‘s’ on the lam somewhere. Be warned.

  155. 655
    YOB - Ye Olde Blacksmith

    More game geek jokey stuff. Sorry.

    How about some Hit Dice?

    I totally have to get one!

  156. 656
    jrfdeux, mode d'emploi

    CaitieCat: According to 3e, I think we tied on the roll but you were caught flat-footed. I’m sure it was med related somehow. :-)

    But seriously, sorry to hear about the side effects. My last round with my anti-anxiety meds made my anxiety much worse for about 2 weeks before I was up to therapeutic levels. I can tell you that was an absolutely horrifying place to be.

    I miss my old Dragon mags. I had them in a big box with my copies of Ares and OMNI. What an era that was for print publishing.

  157. 657
    CaitieCat, getaway driver

    Game geekery ahead, so skip on if you’re not interested :) .

    I’ve actually been pondering, in the last couple of days, how or whether it would be possible to alter the v3.5 game to play a gods-less game. Still have magic, just make the various cleric and druid spells into schools of arcane magic, dispense with undead-turning entirely (or make it a class skill for a variant necromancy-focused arcanist, or something), and drop clerics and druids completely? Paladins keep their ability to lay on hands and smite and such, but they’re alignment-based (like the variant paladins from a few Dragons), and arcane, not divine. No telling the future because the future hasn’t happened yet (no communing, divination of future, augury, that kind of thing), and is unpredetermined.

    The world, then, or worlds, would be ones in which there is magic, but no divinity; ultimate power leads to vast and epic powers, but not divinity, not the direct result of prayer to incomprehensible beings of ultimate whatever-ding-dong granting magic and benefits not available to those who don’t pray or want to suck up to whatever-ding-dong.

    Throw in a somewhat metal-poor world (to keep tech from advancing too quickly), make PC classes pro-athlete-level rare in the population (to keep magic from becoming so common that securing anything is functionally impossible, making an economy infeasible).

    Think that’d be playable? Designable, yes, balanceable, probably, but playable? Fun?

    So often no one wants to be the cleric, anyway. Why not give the arcanists more spells/day, or let sorcerers do spontaneous heal like clerics, or something, and just go to a three-member structure, arcane-fighter-rogue? Or the classic four-member throws in a sorcerer instead of a cleric, with some interesting differences in offensive options as a result?

  158. 658
    jrfdeux, mode d'emploi

    Rawnaeris, Lulu Cthulhu, yeah, there’s Asian and then there’s “Asian.” What was the food pretending to be?

  159. 659
    rq

    Anyone have any extra old junk? I’m taking the sledgehammer out back.

  160. 660
    rq

    And no, I’m not going to roll any dice for the initiative. :)

  161. 661
    Rawnaeris, Lulu Cthulhu

    jrfdeux, It was Chipotles new “Asian” restaurant styled like a Chipotle. Trying to be Thai-ish? Not sure if it was the chicken satay or the “Red Curry” that got me.

    Oh, and feel free to drop the ‘Lulu Cthulhu’ as that bit of my nym changes periodically. That current bit is my husbands pet name for me, and it cracked me up enough to share.

  162. 662
    jrfdeux, mode d'emploi

    CaitieCat:
    I think Yes to all of your questions! Have you ever played Ars Magica? You could borrow heavily from that world/theme, which posits that magic comes from a substance known as vis, with different kinds of vis powering different sorts of magic. Maybe call it mana or whatever, or make magical power something that is fixed in location. The closer you are to $POWERLOCUS the more spells or the higher-level spells you can cast. You could derive entire adventures around locating and/or harvesting this raw magic supply, and this helps with the economics of magic too, limiting it.

    That kind of game world is totally fun and playable. It’s really a matter of managing your players’ expectations and maintaining internal consistency.

  163. 663
    A. Noyd

    rq (#619)

    I could always come up with fake evidence to cover Portia’s tracks, because this being TV and all, and I would be kind of like a woman Dexter but in DNA, I could totally rock this show and save Portia.

    Oh, good idea switching it up to one of the antihero-as-protagonist type shows!

  164. 664
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Mmmmm, sledgehammer. I could use it as well.

  165. 665
    carlie

    Whoa. Solar freaking roadways. If this could be commercially successful, this would be amazing. It’s solar panels that are designed to withstand the load-bearing of being a road, with LED lights that can be reconfigured when needed for lane changes and emergency notifications etc, and that would be heated so that ice didn’t form on them. WANT EVERYWHERE.

  166. 666
    chigau (違う)

    2x3x3x37

  167. 667
    rq

    It’s 1AM and I’m still at work.
    No, I don’t work at an alcohol-dispensing establishment.
    Sorry for being so flakey.

  168. 668
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    carlie #665
    Unfortunately, a) it does not appear to be a practical proposal yet, b) still not as good an idea as putting the panels on the millions of acres of unused roofspace in the U.S., where we should be putting money first, especially because that allows c) reducing overall energy use by demolishing roads and parking lots to put buildings closer together, allowing for transportation via mass transit and human powered transportation(including shanks’ mare). Granted there will still be a need for pavements, and having them warmed and generating power would be nifty

    jrfdeux, mode d’emploi
    For a while, the first 250 issues (Basically everything published while it was still TSR)were available in electronic format; I’ve got the CD-ROMs somewhere still I think.

    CaitieCat657
    Such a setting would be totally playable, although I don’t know if I’d bother tweaking D&D until it supported a setting like that, rather than just go with a different system. (I generally use GURPS; indeed, the published fantasy setting for GURPS is basically like that; the premise is that in another, magical, dimension, there were elves and orcs, who fought. A bunch of elves decided that genocide was a good plan, and cast a big honking spell to kill all the orcs. It failed, and instead started bringing in people from other worlds; humans from Earth in the middle ages, goblins from somewhere else, lizard people from somewhere else again, etc. They brought their various religions with them, but prayer doesn’t do any more there than here, and priests who use magic are just that: wizards who’ve been ordained.)

  169. 669
    YOB - Ye Olde Blacksmith

    CaitieCat
    I agree with jrfdeux 100%. Especially the manage expectations part. Ive dmed many godless worlds and simply set up a sub-class of magic that covered most of the old clerical spells. It takes a bit of work modifying the spell list and teaching players about those changes. But it can be a whole lot of fun.

  170. 670
    CaitieCat, getaway driver

    The “why use D&D” thing is easy: I have the books. I have All The Books. Also, I quite like the d20 system, it’s blazingly easy to teach and understand, and I’ve got a passle of grandkids just easing on up to the age when Nana can get ‘em their first dice bags.

    I’m poor, and I’m committed to not violating copyright (whatever I think of the morality of the law, that’s my personal stance as an artist), so I have to use what I have.

    What I have is all of the main books, and many, many of the side books, for 3.0/3.5. I have every Dragon published in the 3.0/3.5 era (that is, until it stopped publishing). Also, though they’ve since abandoned it,. the OGL means that there are some really nice free tools available to run 3.5 games, with character generators and encounter-management software and such, which must remain free in order to keep using their OGL stuff.

    And I judge it likely to be less work, then, to adapt the system I know very well, and which I both like and have all kinds of resources for, than to purchase (how?) and learn a whole new system that I haven’t looked at or played since…guh, 1990? Around when I went away from RPGs and into SFB/wargaming/ASL for a while, so early 90s at latest. That, in turn, was before MtG, but that was another (also expensive) story…

  171. 671
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    CaitieCat
    Understood; I’m in a similar but reversed boat; I’ve got a ton of (now slightly dated) GURPS stuff, but no D&D past the 2nd Edition. IIRC, the cleric Schools are divided up pretty much the same way the Wizard/Sorcerer ones are, so all you should need to do is add a Healing school, then allocated all the cleric spells according to type.

  172. 672
    YOB - Ye Olde Blacksmith

    The campaign im currently running with old friends started about 3 years ago. We started out running 3.5. Now, it is barely recognizable as 3.5 what with all of the mods ive made. Weave the changes into the story. In the godless campaign i ran, the gods stopped listening and an enterprising mage academy discovered where the gods power came from and learned how to harness it without them.

  173. 673
    jrfdeux, mode d'emploi

    Yeah, I agree the system doesn’t matter so much, just use what you have and are comfy with. PnP roleplaying is all about group storytelling anyway. The system is just there to provide a framework for introducing uncertainty in the epic you’re weaving.

  174. 674
    YOB - Ye Olde Blacksmith

    You all should meet my lawful good-ish orc tribe. Imagine an orcish Drizzt starting a colony based on justice and compassion. They really mess with the players heads at first.

  175. 675
    CaitieCat, getaway driver

    L’Gorcs, huh? Hmm.

    My weirdest thing is that I have this lovely first-edition (in the book-collecting sense) Forgotten Realms main book for 3e, signed and dated by Ed Greenwood, personally to me, Cait.

    But I don’t remember ever meeting him (though we’re from the same area), nor do I remember anyone giving it to me.

    It’s a poser. My meds do a bit of a number on my short-term memory sometimes, but sometimes slightly larger things fall out too.

  176. 676
    rq

    CaitieCat
    It just proves that god set everything up an hour ago. Fossils, geology, and your signed book. QED!

  177. 677
    gworroll

    CatieCat-

    Instead of removing divine magic mechanics, I’d just remove the divine, and come up with alternate lore to explain the powers.

    In World of Warcraft, for instance, while there are divine beings- the Light which powers most divine spellcasting is presented as more of a force of nature rather than an actual entity. The Shadow, which powers basically the rest of it, is essentially the same(just, well, darker). Not an emanation of the Gods, but part of the fabric of reality itself. Most Paladins and Priests are fairly close to being atheists- they might recognize the existence of, say, Elune, but do not follow her.

    Here’s the WoW Wiki article on The Light-
    http://www.wowwiki.com/Light

    Reworking it all as arcane might be interesting, and the lore needed to support such a change could be interesting in its own right, but you don’t have to go that far to get rid of gods and have an interesting alternative for making it work.

  178. 678
    jrfdeux, mode d'emploi

    Dalillama: Do you see this? This is my jealous face. ***ENVY***

  179. 679
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Sigh, have fresh baked potatoes and fresh steamed green beans to go with tonight’s fish dinner all ready, but the next door neighbor who does her hair needs to do some venting. So I’ll sit back wait.

    Tomorrow will be long day, as the Redhead wants to go the Chicagoland Gem and Mineral show down at the Dupage county fairgrounds. A lot of planning and labor needed to pull it off without mishap. Hope they have WiFi in the building….

  180. 680
    Owlmirror

    jrfdeux @656

    I miss my old Dragon mags. I had them in a big box with my copies of Ares and OMNI.

    If you have lots of bandwidth, storage space, and time, you can get OMNI here:

    https://archive.org/details/omni-magazine

    Hm, I see they also have Ares:

    https://archive.org/details/ares_magazine

    And you can explore other stuff on the magazine rack.

    But no Dragon magazine. Sorry. I infer TSR maintains rights on those.

  181. 681
    Owlmirror

    Wait, did I actually write “TSR”? Good grief.

    I mean WoTC, of course.

  182. 682
    YOB - Ye Olde Blacksmith

    signed and dated by Ed Greenwood, personally to me, Cait.

    Im green as a goblin with envy right now. The only thing cool like that that i have is a Steve Jackson signed Munchkin game.

    I’ve got a ton of (now slightly dated) GURPS stuff

    Oh dear, im getting flushed. I think i might need to lay down.

  183. 683
    YOB - Ye Olde Blacksmith

    Nerd
    Good luck at the show. I hope all goes well for ya’ll.

  184. 684
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    Portia

    Late to the bandwagon but I too think that it’s a good idea to talked to Other Boss. The role of a good boss includes sheltering employees as far as possible from extraneous stuff that might affect their work. This certainly qualifies.

    This is not your problem except that Boss’ Wife has forced it upon you. If Boss and Other Boss are not willing or able to mitigate that problem, well, you need to know that this is the kind of employers they are. Better now than years down the track when your life and identity have full entwined with that firm.

    Stay strong Portia. Know that this is not fair and that you’ve done nothing to deserve it.

    Know too that acceptance of reality, the bedrock of scepticism, is your shelter in this. Finding out the truth about how employers deal with this sort of thing is the only way for you to know for sure if they are a viable long-term option. Yup, that dark grey smudge over there on the far horizon might just be the tiniest sliver of a silver lining. Which of course in no way makes the situation suck any less.

  185. 685
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    My weirdest thing is that I have this lovely first-edition (in the book-collecting sense) Forgotten Realms main book for 3e, signed and dated by Ed Greenwood, personally to me, Cait.

    I used to manage a used book store and for the last few years was solely responsible for selling antiques and collectables. The funny thing about first edition collectors is that in general they wouldn’t want your copy Cait. The real hardcore want books that look like they’ve never been touched by human hands, let alone read. And if they get one, they will NEVER read it. I know I shouldn’t judge other people’s hobbies, especially something as harmless as that, but even after all those years in the business that attitude does my head in. Those folks would look at your first and say “No thanks, someone wrote in it.” never mind who that person was.

  186. 686
    Rawnaeris, Lulu Cthulhu

    @FossilFishy that’s crazy! I love firsts, and I liked signed ones *because* to me that shows someone loved the book, directly personalized or just autographed.

  187. 687
    CaitieCat, getaway driver

    Oh, I know – and it’s personalized, too, which they hate even more.

    But game collectors…that’s different. :)

    Besides, they can take it from my cold ashes that used to be hands.

  188. 688
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    Oh, I know – and it’s personalized, too, which they hate even more.

    Yup, that’s the hierarchy. Signed can drop the value, but if it isn’t personalised that drop is minimal.

    Oh I know, Rawnaeris. My favourite thing about used books was the history of them. I love the annotations and inscriptions, they take a book from being just an object to an object that has been loved.

    We used to stamp inside the paperbacks with our name and address. I once had a book that had four used book store stamps in it already, two from Vancouver and two from small towns in the interior of British Columbia. I was in in Edmonton, Alberta and as I stamped it I hoped that it would continue on it’s way across Canada.

  189. 689
    ernezabet

    Ok, I’ve been reading for hours trying to catch w/y’all.

    I made *splash* with intro. Sorry, sorry. Lurking makes my eyes hurt. Insecurity in forced retirement has me in a tither. Don’t know what to do with self…….

    Sorry but I get prime time for astronomy show tonight, will stroll out back door and look up (or maybe float in pool). Kill me again.:)

    Human contact is excellent. I escaped to beach yesterday, 3 lovely hrs and no I did not burn, but should have. First time out of house in 2 years, except to see Dr or be in hospital.

    Hi Horde. As I humbly bow.
    Lynna, I’m scared for this country. Porta, other woman has it in for you. For her to call you was horrid. Awful tangle. Rq – sledgehammer see Peter Gabril (can’t post links on iPad yet (how????)). I will spend time looking up.

    Someone somewhere mentioned streampunk, Thank you 2 books later.
    (I will go back and look up some links I missed to get here.)

    New music anyone “Take out the gunman” Chevelle.
    Good Evening (here). Have nice weekend all!

  190. 690
    ernezabet

    LOLing, thick clouds rolling in, damn it, Gumby!

  191. 691
    YOB - Ye Olde Blacksmith

    Well, its 10:00 in North Texas and the cloud cover is looking pretty thick, but there are some small area that might be clearing up. AAARRRGGGHHH

  192. 692
    chigau (違う)

    9PM and thick cloud in Central Alberta.
    That god dude can be a real asshole.

  193. 693
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    Very few if any regulars have been confined to Thunderdome. Possibly one or two (I’m not giving the names because I’m by no means sure this is so). Many regulars who have not been confined comment there frequently, including a considerable number who also post here. Confinement to Thunderdome generally turns out to be a preliminary to the confined non-regular (i.e., they are usually a recent arrival) disappearing from Pharnygula: either by complete banning, because those so confined either break their confinement or resort to outright racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic/ableist/etc. slurs; or voluntarily, presumably because even the most obsessive troll gets bored or discouraged before very long.

    That’s how you have falsely characterized Thunderdome.

    You cannot possibly have arrived at that interpretation of my comment in good faith, especially given my subsequent clarifications.

    Since “confined to thunderdome” is apparently YET ANOTHER term of art Fucking Pit-Trap Phrase, let me…

    …oh for fuck’s fucking sake, you know what meant.

  194. 694
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    10:15 ct, and here in Chiwaukee, I can only only see a few of the brightest stars, and to the north, nothing but yellow haze of light pollution. Can’t find either ursa major or ursa minor.

  195. 695
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    …sorry.

    Let me try this again.

    I had forgotten that the phrase “confined to Thunderdome” had been used in a more specific way elsewhere. What I mean is that there are certain regulars who really stick out in my memory for behaving in ways I find triggering (because they’re substantially identical to the way other students and others who bullied me, and/or the administrators who made endless excuses for them, even though they get a pass because they tend to nominally target their meanness-for-the-sake-of-meanness at “The Bad Guys”) who as far as I can tell don’t post in the Lounge to speak of because its rules require that other commenters be treated like human beings, but who would have free reign in the Thunderdome. I don’t like be triggered, so I avoid it.

    Is that clear enough?

  196. 696
    chigau (違う)

    Abundantly.

  197. 697
    rq

    A rather lenghty piece on female road narratives (rather their absence). Interesting. Excerpt:

    We recognize that, in our world, a woman on the road is marked. She has been cut from the social fabric, excised at such an elemental level that when she steps onto the road, she steps into an abyss. And whatever leads up to that choice inspires in us a primal fear. A man on the road is solitary. A woman on the road is alone. This is not cute wordplay, but a radically different social experience.

  198. 698
    blf

    Is there a word for when you like the food at a restaurant, but it very pointedly disagrees with you?

    Peel porcupine phirst.

  199. 699
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    jrfdeux,

    And for lunch today: A big bowl of steamed white Thai rice, a dish of kimchee, some braised eggplant in garlic, and pan-fried tofu in a light satay sauce.

    What crime did you commit?

    RPGs /Caitie

    I’ve actually been pondering, in the last couple of days, how or whether it would be possible to alter the v3.5 game to play a gods-less game.

    I actually like the gods in fantasy and RPGs. As I mentioned in the thoser thread, they provide an example of how a world in which everything religionists claim to be true in this world actually works.
    BTW, in my favourite RPG system magic and religious “magic” are seperate things. Magic is a gift you have from birth, religious miracles and power are given to priests when they are innitiated and accepted by the respective god.

    So often no one wants to be the cleric, anyway.

    We sometimes have clerics. My current character’s personal ambition (our DM insists that everybody has a life ambition so we can be motivated/discouraged) is to join the armed branch of her church. Also, clerics make damn useful NPCs. But it would would be totally possible to transfer that to magicians. I played The Decipher LotR system for a while and there you had no clerics (and few magicians). It was still fun.
    Also: I don’t know where my dice are and the only reasonable online buy seems to be a bag of 50 D20…

    +++

  200. 700
    blf

    So the mildly deranged penguin has been playing D&D all wrong? She won’t be happy to hear that…

    In her version there are real dragons, of the fire-breathing, magic-impervious magical, princess-eating, gold-hoarding, pea-hating, grog-quaffing, kind. Their mating rituals are awesome, and rather destructive to the landscapeplanet.

    Injury fixing-upping is dona in a simple manner. Play “viking” and grab someone (usually a cleric&nbsp/ monk / nun type as they are rather slow in their robes and tend to roll well, being so fat (this is important)). Remove any jewelry, gold, and other valuables. Wad up into a tight ball and go ten-wounded bowling, rolling the cleric like a bowling ball across the plain / cavern floor to hit a bunch of injured allies. Or if yer clever, enemies. The mysticism goes SPLAT! (so does the cleric) and “heals” whatever it splashes onto.

    Of course, the “healing” is a bit erratic, so instead of stopping the bleeding and dealing with the cuts, stabs, and missing limbs, you may find yerself with an extra arm (rarely from the same species). Or have yer head swapped with that of a slug who also happened to be splashed.

    Hilarity ensues when the “slug” is actually a dragon larva.

  201. 701
    blf

    A cleric&nbsp is an exceptionally prized healing-bowling ball, have extra (&) monster baffling special powers. Which can be handy stuff to be splashed with…

  202. 702
    David Marjanović

    Neil deGrasse Tyson explains what a billion is. And how rich Bill Gates is.

  203. 703
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Bought tickets for Sunday, things are decidedly not ready for Monday but I’m not going to argue about it. No matter what I do, I’ll get some crap – whether from clients or from colleagues for badgering them (the polite mail I just sent will be enough for that).

    Urgh.

    I spent a small fortune on mosquito repellants.
    And then I went and bought a beautiful dress in a thrift shop. I have no idea where I’m supposed to wear it, but it was made for me and really cheap.
    It’s perfect for romantic summer dates and shit like that. Too bad I don’t go on those.
    /bitter

  204. 704
    opposablethumbs

    Apologies for asking something that I could read up on myself if there were enough time, but this has to be super quick because reasons (somebody has asked me about it, and I don’t know, and they apparently have to meet a deadline) –
    .
    Very Small Horde Signal:

    Can anyone tell me anything, good or bad, about the I Fucking Love Science website, and whether it’s any good/sound/worth recommending/run by trustworthy people? Does it have woo-ish bits? Is it too facile? Can I basically regard it as Something-A-Bit-Like-Pharyngula Summarizes The Latest Science News With Lots Of Pictures ???? Or is it not as good as that would imply :-)

  205. 705
    rq

    Beatrice
    Take yourself out for a date, just to wear the dress. Or wear it to work just for the heck of it. :)
    As long as you feel comfortable, of course.
    And I hope Sunday goes well!

    opposablethumbs
    From what I’ve seen of the site, it’s reasonably reasonable, with the usual buzzfeed or salon fault – over-hyping things to the point of nausea. I haven’t been able to fact-check everything that appears on my FB from that site, but they occasionally do (facile and over-simplified) take-downs of woo-y stuff. At work, so I can’t prove it to you, but that’s my opinion: it’s mostly okay, just succumbs to clickbaiting people.

  206. 706
    opposablethumbs

    Thank you rq! People’s opinions over time is exactly what I’m after, as I’ve never checked them out myself – and I have reason to value the opinions of people around these parts :-)
    .
    If anyone happens to know anything about whoever is behind the site – what kind of a rep they have – that would be most awesome.

  207. 707
    opposablethumbs

    Errands to run now, but will check back later –

    ::waves to Horde::

  208. 708
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    opposablethumbs

    There’s one person behind IFLS: Elise Andrew.

    The Skeptic’s Guide to the Universe interviewed her a couple of weeks ago. The podcast is well worth a listen.

  209. 709
    Nick Gotts

    Azkyroth,

    You cannot possibly have arrived at that interpretation of my comment in good faith,

    If you’re going to start accusing people of dishonesty, this discussion should be moved to Thunderdome. Since several people apparently interpreted your commment in exactly the way my comment implies, perhaps you expressed yourself badly.

    especially given my subsequent clarifications.

    Irrelevant, since I was answering your question “how have I falsely characterized Thunderdome?”, which could only refer to the comment which led others to say you had falsely characterized Thunderdome, not to any subsequent clarifications.

  210. 710
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Wait. TSR is no longer around? When the hell did that happen?

  211. 711
    PZ Myers

    NEW THREAD.

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