I’ve spent a long day in a dark quiet room with a red pen in my hand slogging through a mountain of grading, but at least you got something significant accomplished — it only took you 8 hours to completely meet Karen Stollznow’s initial legal fees. Don’t stop now, keep on going! This ink-stained wretch looked up from his labors and felt a twinge of hope, like that there really are good people in this movement.
There was also a bit of schadenfreude. Adam Lee has posted some of the slymey comments he’d been getting after Ben Radford’s premature ejaculation — you know, where some of the gullible haters who succumbed to some motivated reasoning, saw the unsigned ‘apology’ written by Radford in Stollznow’s name, decided the whole thing was over now, and started sniping about, demanding immediate apologies, claiming that they had the confession in hand, etc. I have some of the same noise in my spam queue, so I thought I should share it, too.
Do you think that retraction letter was a fake? Are you a birther as well? Was 911 an “inside job”?
Yeah, they went there, claiming that rejecting the ‘apology’ was equivalent to being a conspiracy nut and denialist. Of course, I was sitting here with inside information — I knew that Stollznow hadn’t signed it.
Guess what, annoying troll? The retraction letter was a fake. Stollznow had nothing to do with it.
For PZ’s rabble: Carrie Poppy, what a piece of work. I bet Herr Myers is regretting ever trusting that ditzy bítch.
Carrie Poppy has been doing good work sharing her knowledge of what happened. Turns out she was right. No regrets, I think I’ll keep trusting her.
This message from Amy Stoker on Ben Radford’s facebook, regarding the retraction letter.
“It’s signed by Karen and notarized. Ben was over at my house tonight. I’m sure Ben will address this in the morning or at some point. For tonight he wanted to focus on those family and friends that have been by his side.
about an hour ago ”I’m not sure who Amy Stoker is, but I’d believe her over anything that lying sack of crap PZ Myers says.
But…the letter wasn’t signed and notarized. That comment from Stoker has since been curiously memory-holed. I don’t think I’ll trust her at all — but that’s OK, I’ve still got Carrie Poppy.
Are you going to apologize to Ben Radford now, PZ? You witch hunting moron. Always believe the accuser, right? Hahahaha.
No.
There’s a lot more, but it gets old fast, and I think my point is made. These loons were just making stuff up and were utterly convinced by a ginned-up, unsigned document. Skeptics. Yeah, right.
Let me guess: the same assholes are now doubling- and tripling-down on the excuses for Radford. Conspiracy theories indeed…
Well you see, PZ, you don’t need to be skeptical when it comes to women making accusations of sexual harassment, especially when those accusations are against a Named Skepbro. Only a lying little tramp would accuse a Named Skepbro of behaving inappropriately for years on end, because Named Skepbros behave impeccably at all times and the only possible reason to accuse one of them of not doing so would be one’s pathetic but very lucrative Professional Victimhood. It is simply far beyond the realms of possibility (much less plausibility) that a Namebro would harass a co-worker for years, far beyond said realms that the organisation in question wouldn’t censure that bro appropriately and far beyond aforementioned realms that said bro would lie his arse off about what happened before, during and since.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to go back to my low-hanging fruit. Heeere, little dowser, heeere, little cryptozoologist …
They were in some sense trolled well and good; they got their hindquarters handed to them. Excellent.
Maybe the cryptozoologists could take a break from hunting Bigfoot and Nessie and see if they can track down an actual skeptic hidden somewhere in the depths of “Skeptic” community.
The thinking process of the majority (or rather the silent majority/vocal minority) seems to have far more in common with the motivated skepticism practiced by climate change “skeptics” than it does with that of people who actually give a damn about knowing the truth.
Reading these slimy emanations both here and at Adam Lee’s blog, one is strongly reminded of the famous prayer of Voltaire.
Wowbagger at 1-
Oh that apology was totally signed and notarized and made all official and everything but you know Stollznow had her buddies from the Illuminati airdropped by UFO and use their cosmic erasers (now with extra quantum) and disappeared the signatures. They’re currently being held by the Trilateral Commission at Area 51 and turned into mind-control chemtrails by the Loch Ness Monster. Chuck Norris has offered to reform Delta Force to get it back but we’ll just have to keep our fingers crossed on that one.
WON’T SOMEONE, PLEASE THINK OF THE CHUPACABRAS?
Wow. My grading was limited to third-grade math, and my reading limited to third-grade writing. Sounds like I had a better day.
This is why I try hard to distinguish between those who do not believe that there is a god, and those who do believe that there is no god. These skeptics seem to believe that they are smart and skeptical, and at the end of the day, they still function on belief.
That depends on whether you’re teaching third-graders or college students. >.>
Have any accusations come up that men supporting Stollznow are white knight beta males that hope she’ll bang them in return for helping her frame an innocent man? As if I have to ask…
Thanks to the Internet, though, the language of the misogynist scumbag is becoming standardized, and such people can be easily identified.
I’m really bothered by people that make allusions to people being German as a way to accuse people of being Nazis. Yeah, because everyone who is German is a Nazi. (It also gets weird when people point out how Jews having last names of Germanic origin, though most of them aren’t actually German last names, as a way to accuse them of being Nazis…)
“I REPLACED A HARD C IN YOUR NAME WITH A K… HAHA UR A NAZI.” Or in the case of that one tweet… using the German word for Mister. Seriously I kind of wish people would cut this out.
gog @10
In addition to your query I’ll add: it’s just a matter of time before we hear (if not already)…
that BR is the target of a witch-hunt;
that some women are just resentful BR isn’t interested in them;
that KS and Baxter set up BR to derp on FB;
that BR is being bullied by FTB;
that KS is making money off of playing a victim;
ad nauseam.
Ad nauseam, indeed.
Time to kick things up a notch. While the legal fund is great, what would be even better is if this case never got to trial in the first place. Who remembers these lines from Stollznow’s removed blog post?
Radford may be banking on a trial where he can openly shame Stollznow. Raising a lot of funds is an indirect help, but maybe we could do more.
While I don’t have any insider knowledge, unlike Myers, I’ve been following this situation quite closely. Over that time, Radford’s made a number of bizarre moves. In isolation, they don’t mean much and can be easily explained away, but when you count them up and start comparing them, the sum total starts looking very fishy. Asking Radford to account for these oddities would put further pressure on him, and combined with the legal fundraiser it may be enough to stave off a trial.
The situation around those comments of Stokers is quite a bit more bizarre than Myers describes, and I’ve decided to condense it all into an easily Tweeted/blogged infographic. If you like it, share it everywhere; if you don’t, suggest some improvements; and if you think I’m full of it, don’t hesitate to tell me.
I agree. Nothing to add.*
*(Other than that you might be giving some of them too much credit – it might not be that they think all Germans are Nazis, but that any German word is a Nazi word.)
But you have to also talk like Hitler.
I think there’s an error on the indiegogo page. It says that I didn’t get a perk, but I totally got a warm and fuzzy feeling for knowing that slimy weasel Radford doesn’t get to just legally bully his way past sexual harassment.
Thats a mighty fine perk right there.
I’ve seen Radford’s case. His lawyer sent me the accusations to silence me.
It was little more than claims that Radford & Stollznow once had a relationship, and she said nice things to him then, and that she continued to try to be friendly after they broke up. Therefore, she’s evil. He offered to send me all of their correspondence that showed these facts. I didn’t take him up on it; there’s absolutely nothing in the fact that they once got along to logically demonstrate that he couldn’t be a harasser.
How hard is it to become a lawyer in the USofA?
Chigau – it’s somewhat hard, but mostly it’s massively expensive.
Let’s be honest about lawyers: in many cases their job is to win an argument & not to discern objective truth. I’m sure that a disingenuous but skilled quote-miner will be able to find plenty of shit to fling around, presuming enough raw material (emails/txts/etc) to work with. Given the initial complaint is one-sided, and how slow the wheels of justice turn, pitters could be throwing mined quotes around for months (longer?) before a trial happens and the tables get turned. From afar things seem better than they did 24 hrs ago, but there’s a long tough road ahead yet, which I imagine must still be somewhat lonely despite of all the support.
hjhornbeck, I do not believe the Horde can do anything to prevent a trial (aside from raising funds to demonstrate that financing the defense will not be a concern, which might actually be enough).
If Radford and his attorney decide to proceed to trial, it will be either because they think Stollznow can’t afford it — not true at this point — or because they think they have some chance of winning based on the facts. We can eliminate the former justification for going to trial, but there is nothing we can do to affect the latter. The facts will all come out in discovery anyway, and Radford (or at the very least his attorney) must realize this. Furthermore, based on what we know, Radford already has all the facts of this case. So if they think they can win, there is nothing we can show them to convince them otherwise, because they already have all the pertinent information.
Sounds familiar…oh, yeah!
eigenperson @21:
Very true. But what if the primary reason Radford brought the case forward was because of that lack of funds? With that justification sliding off the table, the cost/benefit analysis has changed dramatically for him. Is continuing forward worth it, if a bunch of skeptics and atheists get to spend months sifting through the case poking holes in it, providing free research assistance to Stollznow’s lawyers?
Since he brought the case forward, he can drop it at any time without making a statement. Sure, that would be humiliating, but that’s nothing compared to the humiliation he could face in the coming months.
Bah, missed a word:
But it was mostly Kif’s fault!
But Radford doesn’t necessarily avoid humiliation by dismissing the case. I suppose he could say that the FTBullies ganged up on him financially, and thereby save some face among his people, although only the most diehard supporters will only be totally convinced. I can’t imagine any other way he gets out of this cleanly, except by somehow winning the case. His best chance, in my opinion, is if Team Stollznow damaged their defense through corresponding with Team Radford while not represented by counsel. Even that seems unlikely.
I think his strategy must have been to get Stollznow to agree to a favorable settlement along the lines of “let us never speak of this again.” At least, if that wasn’t his strategy, he’s nuts. But that didn’t happen, and since then the situation has deteriorated for him since Stollznow will now have counsel, a war chest of $40,000, and the likelihood of getting more if necessary.
she has made the decision when she first started saying no to unwanted attention. Each time you start to act on your own and not just react you get stronger.
all flows from that act all he has is reaction to that, sad he could not just say OK and just be a friend an equal but those who engage in this kind of crap do not see relationships of any kind as being of equals but only power/status relationships
I can not give money I do not have but I support the fight
uncle frogy
PZ:
Some of us who’re glad to help are not only not in the movement, we’re not even atheists. :)
midnightblue #28
you coward
i’ll fight you
So we hafta put up with this until tomorrow morning?
jeeeeeeez
lol
y’know
actually editing your comments before you click submit
sooooo hhhaaaaarrrrrrdddd
There is no unified movement. What are you talking about? Also the “brainwashed” thing is cute. The only reason why people disagree with you is because they are “brainwashed.” I remember when my dad used this phrase in a similar way for me agreeing with my mom during their divorce.
So is this you not gossiping, fuckwit? If so, you suck at it.
Shhh, sugarfrosted, if he says it enough times it will be true eventually.
Come morning, Pharyngula-time, midnightblue will not exist.
to bad
so sad
Lying troll is lying. Lying troll is on the sl*me side. Who else uses “Peezus” and claims that PZ is masturbating to RW videos.
Go ahead and continue finger painting on the walls with your shit. It will all be spray painted off in the morning.
And maybe some people will have fun playing Troll Stomp.
Lying troll is lying.
Go ahead and continue finger painting on the walls with your shit. It will all be spray painted off in the morning.
And maybe some people will have fun playing Troll Stomp.
Wow, the support Karen is receiving really makes the troll sad.
*sad trombone*
My heart would break for the sad lying troll but it is black and empty.
He is not a control freak. But he does have a justifiably low tolerance for lying idiots like you.
Funny that you think that PZ is my master. It would be funny if you tried to prove it.
“Your master”… Oy vey. I was hoping this nudnik lost interest, but alas we couldn’t be that lucky. I think wit was not the intent, but oh well.
Hilarious one hand typing troll is hilarious, and above all, wrong, sooo wrong, lol lol lol. How can a functioning human be so clueless?
So that’s how y’all are trying to save face from this first of sound defeats! By coming on to the various blogs supporting Stollznow and comparing the writers of those blog to Hitler (because… you know… that’s not pathetic hyperbole at all).
Oh please. You’re so transparent it’s sad. If you’re not on anyone’s side, then why do you feel the need to comment at all?
Nope… you’re kissing Radford’s feet all the way. That much is clear.
PZ… I donated $25 to Karen. Will be donating $100 with my next paycheck (in a few days).
I see that you will not back up your claim that PZ is my master. Why am I not surprised?
Guys, guys. It’s getting truer! I can feel it!
*tries not to panic*
eigenperson #26
I think that was the strategy and I think Karen was agreeing to it, which was what the negotiations about a joint statement was about. Then Ben’s ego got the better of him and he tried to force through a statement that outright called the accusations false, which backfired.
At least, that’s my working hypothesis at the moment. Seems to fit the available information.
I see there’s no need for the Pharyngulites to comment here at the moment. This comment thread … thing … literally writes itself. Voltaire’s prayer indeed.
Well diddums, we wouldn’t want you to think we’re credulous enough to believe you based solely on your word.
If Radford chickens out and ditches the suit, is there anything that can be done to stop him firing up another one after the funds have gone to charity?
The immature is strong with this one… totally predictable troll, lol =)
First, he does the “crazy slut” mandatory bullshit, then sues her knowing she can´t afford her defense? I hope Stollznow wipes the fucking floor with Radford….
You can absolutely bet that even if she does and his lying, dishonest, harassing arse is exposed for everybody to see, there will be a bunch of “skeptics” who will still deny everything and claim he has been the victim of a conspiracy.
@31 Midnightblue
As opposed to your trolling which is doing wonders for furthering the cause.
By the way, talking about who has one of the Olsen twins banged this week is gossip, a case of sexual harassment that turns into legal harassment, isn´t.
Ben Radford must be so proud to have such erudite, well-reasoned, calm and convincing supporters on his side.
I was thinking the same thing. If I had supporters like this I would seriously be wondering whether I had things right. For people that seem to think they are such wonderful true sceptics and rationalists, they seem to have an amazingly hard time being rational or sceptical.
@61
Ben Radford must be so proud to have such erudite, well-reasoned, calm and convincing supporters on his side.
I´m very new to this case but judging from other cases and from what i can read about this Radford guy, as long as his supporters think ghosts and bigfoot are bullshit, then yeah, he probably is quite proud actually…
It strikes me as really quite funny that these people are so proud of debunking silly things like the already mentioned but are themselves clear evidence for the existence of trolls.
Isn’t it time the sexually stunted/repressed and generally frustrated types like this midnight fella go and seek some help for their issues in private? It’s getting a bit awkward watching the desperate cries for help and attention he’s been posting here.
It’s like Mabus all over again :/
Good luck on your road to recovery midnightblue.
I’ve made this comparison before: Bigfoot, dowsing and all the rest are the training wheels of skepticism. They’re supposed to teach you the basics and provide illustrative examples of common mistakes. However, the training wheel are supposed to come off, eventually. They’re a temporary thing to get you to the point where you can start applying skepticism to real-life situations.
If you stick to the training wheels, you’re not a real skeptic. You’re just playing at it, like a kid on a tricycle pretending they’re Evel Knievel.
eigenperson
Yep, which is, of course, totally different from filing a lawsuit the other side can hardly afford in order to shut her up. Oh, wait, it is indeed. Because Dr. Stollznow is not forcing him to shut up, but to expose his bullshit loudly to the world.
+++
I think “I guess that’s been signed and notarized” will be my favourite sentence when dealing with the claims of the pro-harassment crowd for the next five years or so….
Says the morph who shows up like clockwok daily to spew bile at people he doesn’t like…
Hmmm.. who is midnightblue is, what’s the word.. supporting, when he thinks collecting money for a legal fund for Stollznow is people being “duped” and rejects all the information we have about this case because there hasn’t been a court case yet.. could it be Radford?
Nah I guess I take it back – midnightblue doesn’t support Radford specifically, he just enjoys hating on PZ and FTB.
Midnightblue seems to think this is a game of some kind, a contest between two teams, a shouting match. And the winner would be the snarkiest or something. Really pathetic.
midnightblue @31:
Yeah-huh. Let me point something out to you. In Radford’s latest statement, he said this:
Emphasis mine. Now would you like to point out where, in that screenshot, Radford asks if he can go public? Hmm?
Fool me once…
@ 64 dutchdelight: That’s quite an ableist rant you made there. Didn’t you get the social justice memo?
Rant… really? Is this some lame attempt to hit on the “angry atheist” meme? Desperate much?
Your skeptical brain clearly memorized the words, but has no clue on their meaning. That too doesn’t have to be a permanent problem. The choice is yours friend.
Dear troll should enter Randi’s challenge. That ability to get from point A to point B without crossing the intervening space is sure to win him the prize.
ugh, hoggling is such an ugly thing to see. I’ll take PZ and the others around these parts over the slymepit and their fellow travelers any day. They might fuck up from time to time (even the poopyhead) but at least they’re not actively trying to make things worse. And as for Midnight Blue, well you clearly don’t give a shit either way. Being a wanker is something you enjoy for its own sake. Hope that works out well for you.
It’s a good thin Jason Thibeault posts summaries of this stuff or I’d have no idea about whatever thing happened on twitter or facebook this time around (read: every time around).
I’m impressed by how quick off the mark some people were to believe something as suspicious as a confession letter like that, and how triumphant they are to rub it in the face of ‘the opposition’. Proof that the actual incident is nothing to them, but all part of scoring points in some weird internet game.
I love it when the topic of the “skeptics movement” comes up, as though organized sceptical groups define what scepticism is and is not. When I look at many members of these groups I see a very limited version of scepticism, one that too often applies those ideas to a small subset of issues, and very rarely is capable of turning that sceptical eye towards itself. Scepticism that is only applied to other people’s ideas, never ones own. The ideas behind being a sceptic are general tools for looking at claims and ideas and I see very little emphasis on this when I look at the focus of organized scepticism.
I don’t know where you got Randi’s name from. I think Randi has done some great work educating people on the basics of skepticism through his debunking and his writing. I’m a big fan of Flim-Flam and it has an approach much like what I describe.
The first case is the Cottingley Fairies. Now, people don’t much believe in fairies anymore and anyone associated with this case are long dead, so why bother with it? Because it serves as a good illustration of principles. All through the rest of the book, he refers back to that case and the ideas established through it (such as an overreliance on people with questionable credentials and a failure to institute simple controls against the possibility of fraud). E.g. he uses this when discussing quack healers; people who do real-world harm by defrauding people and delaying necessary medical treatment.
Similarly, his debunking of dowsing is notable not because dowsing itself is a great danger (at least not when just used to look for water) or the people he examines are particularly vicious or fraudulent. It’s relevant because it details the many variables that must be considered when testing such matters. It’s a great case study that again establishes principles that can be applied to other areas; the very thing I was getting at.
So, yeah. I’m not sure what you thought your point was.
It is very impolite.
It should be Herr Professor Dr. Myers.
Shorter midnightblue:
“I don’t care about this case so much I can’t shut up about it!”
Protip: documenting the use of the legal system to bully someone into submission isn’t gossip. Smart people care about it because it’s important. Empathetic people care about it because it’s hurtful. You proudly claim not to care about it, because… well, feel free to insert your own answer here.
midnightblue #28
“Quoting exactly what someone said after they said it is cowardly! Waaaah!”
lolwhut?
+1 Anri @ 82
Do you really think Randi is incapable of applying his scepticism beyond bigfoot and the like? I think I have more respect for Randi than you.
Oh noes, a bratty child is loose in the thread, how will we survive this onslaught of wit? Stealzdough! German word for mister! Peezus! Amazing.
Huh. All MNB’s posts appear to have disappeared. PZ come down with the banhammer?
Droppings by the troll midnightblue have been cleaned up.
MNB was a morph of a guy who’s been trolling TDome daily the past week. He just broadened his horizons a bit today.
He got a little bit of attention before the banhammer. He’ll be back.
It actually helps make the case. One argument I’ve seen in these types of cases — and really any case where someone is accused of poor behavior: protection orders, custody battles… — is the following: “Why would I do behavior X, it makes no sense, there’s no reason for me to have done that.”
Radford’s claims about the prior relationship explain very nicely why he would target her. I would bet that his plan was to point out that after he broke off the relationship, Stollnzow wrote that blog post to retaliate (years later after being married to someone else…), but all he’s managed to do is fill in a potential blank for a judge or jury.
How much would Karen need to mount a full throated counter defamation suit for releasing the fake apology letter? Cram that slimy poor excuse for a human back under the rock he crawled out from under. I’m donating just for that purpose.
@doubtthat
Assuming “relationship” means a romantic relationship, you can see his reasoning now. “We used to go out, so she must still want me! No just means try harder!”
PZ:
Hyperskeptics aren’t skeptics, they are contrarians. To them, everything requires a “nuh uh!”
Yes, Foolish is a language of emphasis and insinuation. “Herr,” shouted abruptly while raising your chin and looking angry, translates as “Obersturmbannführer.”
Karen has updated her message on the fundraising page:
Don’t stop!
@81 Thumper
That has to have been the case. You consented to my attention once and that trumps any later retraction, no matter how earnest.
L .
O .
L .
and $20 says his followers believe it’s there anyway.
Jadeehawk, that’s not the half of it. If you carefully read Radford’s statement, he not only says quite a bit that isn’t demonstrated in that screencap, he also says quite a bit (which gives ammunition to any future counter-suit by Stollznow).
I’ll have more to say on that later, but for now we’ve got to explain why someone would launch a legal fund for Radford the day after he posted his retraction, and two days before Stollznow and Baxter disavowed that retraction.
@Seven of Mine #59:
I know this is probably an offering to Typos, but it’s comedy gold. As useless and inexplicable as a clockwok, the troll, he was.