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Wow, Phil Robertson is getting famous!

I never watched his duck show, and I didn’t know who he was until he started saying these egregiously stupid things, but now the all-seeing eye of the internet is scrutinizing him carefully and all kinds of slime is emerging. You already knew he was a homophobe, and you also probably knew he was some kind of nasty racist, but did you also know he was a misogynist and proud recipient of male privilege? And that he uses Christianity to prop his odious beliefs? And if you didn’t know, are you at all surprised?

He’s speaking to a sportsmen’s ministry in Georgia, waving a Bible and telling the men they have to marry girls who are no more than 15 or 16, and that by 20 they are too old.

By the way, that quote he throws around, that George Washington said you can’t run the world without god and the bible? Totally fake; so fake even David Barton has disavowed it, which tells you it’s got to be ridiculously invented.

Comments

  1. says

    On behalf of the 4 sane people left in Louisiana, I do apologize for our Duck Dynasty. However, as the state generally agrees with Robertson,s views, and this show brings in much needed revenue, you will be seeing much more of them in the future. Louisiana has even gone so far as to secure funding to keep the show on the air if A&E does the right thing by dropping it.

  2. ekwhite says

    You know, I grew up as “poor white trash.” Phil Robertson and his family is the type of person who would look down their noses at us. Now he and his brood of rich yuppies are pretend rednecks on a “reality” show.

    I don’t hate the Robertsons as much as hate the bigoted sociopaths in Hollywood who keep producing shows like this.

  3. says

    I didn’t even know this guy’s name a month ago, A&E just hasn’t been must-see TV since 2000 for me. I’m glad to know who exactly are the knucle-dragging imbeciles around me so I can steer clear though.

  4. stripeycat says

    Is that the same argument Hesiod made about how you need to get your bride young so you can train her up the way you want her; if you wait until she’s older, you’ll get a carbon copy of your mother-in-law, and no-one wants that?! (Apologies for lack of precise quote: I was piss-poor at Greek, Uni was a decade ago, and I’m paraphrasing from memory because I don’t have my own copy of that PoS.)

  5. razzlefrog says

    Yeaaaaaaaaaah…not surprised. I’ve heard it said that racism and homophobia are frequent companions, but misogyny and homophobia are life partners.

    I need a shirt with that.

  6. millssg99 says

    Yeah well the thing is all the “bad” publicity is doing nothing but making him and his show more popular – at least that’s my guess. I would think few of the current viewers are bailing out due to any of this and probably a lot more are joining in. It’s like terrorism. They win just by creating reaction. Apparently Miley Cryus was the most Googled person of 2013. That twerking or whatever you call it really hurt her fading career didn’t it?

    I hardly watch TV but since my family seems to keep it on all the time I get “informed” just by walking around my house without my headphones on. All I heard for a while seemed to be news about this insane controversy. How many millions of $$ of free advertising this must have been for A&E and the duckies.

  7. playonwords says

    Racist, homophobic and misogynist. All he really needs are anti-Semitism, Islamophobia and dominionism and he has the complete set.

  8. Thomathy, Gay Where it Counts says

    Perhaps the worst thing about this is that the show was effectively cancelled when A&E pulled Robertson from it due to outrage. However, 9 days later (and following a major run on useless merchandise of all sorts – Christmas), the show is back on and Robertson didn’t even end up missing any days of filming.

    A&E is retracting its decision, because, get this, Duck Dynasty is a ‘family show’ and A&E, at its core, is a family network.

    I believe the official release from A&E neglects to mention MONEY!!!lll!!!1

  9. peterh says

    My nephew’s wife grew up in the next town over from the Robertsons. They are Smugly Self-Righteous Bible-Thump Redneck™ from head to toe but have jazzed it up some for the cameras. A&E went down the tubes (heh) about the same time the History Channel started “documenting” extraterrestrials and Sasquatch.

  10. devilsadvocate says

    Lets get one thing first before I slightly defend his view of marriage and Myers’ assertion that he’s a “recipient of male privilege:” I don’t like submissive women as a male, nor am I particularly interested in excessively abrasive women. I believe in marriage and that anyone has a right to marry anyone.

    At the end of the day, when you call it “male privilege,” many of these “redneck” guys will be working harder than PZ Myers has in his entire life – doing some of the major labor that runs civilization – agriculture, manufacturing, carpentry, mechanic work, etc.. I have known two guys who got married before they were twenty, relatively conservative, very religious, and their wives love them like crazy and don’t have to work. They cook dinner and get to spend the rest of the day doing whatever they want. Their husbands are, respectively, a carpenter and a welder. These guys work outdoors in heat doing hard labor for 8-10 hours a day while their wives do whatever they want. One of them is a former best friend of mine. He met his wife when they were 15, they didn’t get married until they were 19 and 20, and they were absolutely inseparable. I spent time with him maybe twice without the accompaniment of his girlfriend and subsequently wife. I never heard him say anything along the lines of “make sure she can cook for me” or anything so sexist, but they did certainly fall into that pattern and it would be absolutely false of me to say that the two of them weren’t happy as clams with each other. He works hard, she hardly works, they scrape by.

    Phil Robertson is a joke, anyone ought to see that – left or right. But just because a couple gets married young or just because they’re religious or just because the man works and the woman stays at home doesn’t mean that the man is receiving some sort of extra privilege or the woman feels or is actually oppressed. If anything, she had solid reigns on my friend and drove him like a bridled puppy.

    Get out of the fantasy world of false dichotomies. There are many people who have very egalitarian and/or happy relationships in traditional family structure, and even some who get married young and love it. There are others who are not particularly fond of that.

    I think suspending Phil was probably a violation of the Equal Employment Opportunity Act as he was stating a religiously based belief regardless of its political correctness. I would also come to the defense of a gay person who was fired if he said he didn’t like the Bible or Christianity and was an atheist from being suspended or fired or otherwise – especially when the interviewer pressed him for an answer.

    We all have to live in this world and that means that the fourteenth amendment needs to be taken seriously for people of diverse belief and lifestyle sets and conditions.

    I very much like “PlayonWords’” comment:

    “Racist, homophobic and misogynist. All he really needs are anti-Semitism, Islamophobia and dominionism and he has the complete set.”

    If you take racist and Islamophobia out of that sentence, you’ve pretty much described 90% of the Islamic world, other than the fact that dominionism is a uniquely western term – but certainly with it’s much more virulent and violent Islamic counterpart. I don’t really understand how you can be angry at some guy for being simultaneously “homophobic” and “Islamophobic.” I mean, the Islamic world actually hangs gays to death and you’ll encounter far more than a few clerics who will happily tell you that is the their belief.

    There’s a lot of women out there who want an independent, competitive, single lifestyle. There are other women who are very happy being in monogamous relationships. I think it’s really inappropriate to characterize all women as being victims of all traditional family structures.

    Yes, what Phil said was pretty sexist, but it also ignores the level of labor that will typically be put in by a male to support the woman in traditional households. “Cook dinner for me and love me and I’ll work eight to ten hours a day sweating in the hot sun for you doing hard work.” Sounds like a sucker’s bet.

  11. zenlike says

    Oh, boy someone with the nickname ‘devilsadvocate’, should be fun!

    At the end of the day, when you call it “male privilege,” many of these “redneck” guys will be working harder than PZ Myers has in his entire life

    …and fail right at the start. Look up ‘privilege’ idiot, then start again.

    I think suspending Phil was probably a violation of the Equal Employment Opportunity Act as he was stating a religiously based belief regardless of its political correctness.

    No.

    Also, you appear to one of those ‘free speech also means free from any consequences’ idiots. Please fix that.

  12. zenlike says

    Also, according to devilsadvocate, being a stay at home mom apparently constitutes no work at all. Hey, genius, household tasks are more than cooking diner you know; but you probably don’t have any clue whatsoever about all the hard work that goes into a household.

  13. robro says

    playonwords @#9 — What you want to bet that “anti-Semitism, Islamophobia and dominionism” are there, too?

    None of this is a surprise. I thought Phil showed his sexist, misogynist stripes in the GQ interview. They seem to embrace every form of bigotry you can imagine, including projecting the stereotype of Southerners as dumb, bigoted, gun totting, religious zealots who don’t know how to bath, shave, or dress. It’s impossible to tell how much of their shtick is real or just cynical posturing for ratings, though I assume the bigotry is generally real while the beards and camies are…um…acting.

  14. Bicarbonate says

    @12 devilsadvocate

    Taking care of a house, a man and kids isn’t doing nothing all day. You just don’t know about it. It makes 9 to 5s seem like a lark.

  15. Woo_Monster, Sniffer of Starfarts says

    What a fucking pungent starfart that was at #12.

    Take your apologism elsewhere, shitstain. There is too much wrong with your comment for me to motivate myself to countering it, so, I will just point and laugh.

  16. anchor says

    There is nothing more hideous and evil than that sing-song DRAAAWL that seems to infect certain listeners acculturated to it with the illusion that they are listening to an elevated ‘truth’.

    Its an expositional theater many will recognize as common to every religious pulpit…and it stinks.

    That hideous nasal drawl = profound truth also infects and energizes a gargantuan ‘musical’ industry to immense profit. Its called ‘country and western’.

    We habitually pay merest lip service to the problem that infests half the country, and make our own efforts a self-reflective mockery by imagining that any persuasion might be accomplished by any discourse involving words and the meanings we trust they ought to convey.

    Do we counter with drawl? NO. We can’t in print or mere blogs. We need to recognize that our WORDS are not as ‘powerful’ as the WORDS they drawl it out, then understand that we don’t have a popular pulpit that engages people every fucking Sunday. How hard is that to understand?

  17. raven says

    Racist, homophobic and misogynist. All he really needs are anti-Semitism, Islamophobia and dominionism and he has the complete set.

    There is more to being a fundie xian than that. You left out:

    1. Hinduphobia and Paganphobia.

    2. Atheist phobia!!! We are moving up in their To hate pantheon. One day we may even beat out the gays.

    3. Democrat phobia

    4. Hatred of science

    5. Hatred of evolution, biology, pointy headed intellectuals, college students, and education.

    6. Yankees. Northerners, the Union, and anyone who speaks like them.

    7. Obama.

    8. Somthing else. It’s hard to keep up with all their hates. They never drop one but as civilization progresses, they keep adding more. I’m sure Phil Robertson still hates the Canaanites and Babylonians.

  18. Seize says

    Not to detract from the traditional skewering of foolish persons in this thread, but <a href="http://jezebel.com/phil-robertson-anus-obsessed-racist-also-recommends-c-1491772850"Jezebel's Lindy West has updated the First Amendment for the freeze peach crowd quite delightfully:

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of ducks, or prohibiting dynasties thereof; or abridging the freedom of white guys with beards to NEVER BE FIRED, or of stroking the martyr complex of racists; or the right of cable networks peaceably to cave to bigotry, and to petition the people for hella hella more duck money because $$$$$. #benghazi

  19. carlie says

    #12

    many of these “redneck” guys will be working harder than PZ Myers has in his entire life – doing some of the major labor that runs civilization – agriculture, manufacturing, carpentry, mechanic work, etc..

    Blue collar is my entire family, and that’s what you’re describing there. And if you’ve read this blog for any length of time, you’ll know that’s how PZ grew up, too.

    Get out of the fantasy world of false dichotomies.

    You first. The people I know in that lifestyle aren’t all homophobic racist misogynists. Being blue collar doesn’t mean being an asshole.

  20. fulcrumx says

    The Taliban allowed and in some cases encouraged marriage for girls under the age of 16. Now we know Phil Robertson does too. What a guy.

  21. PDX_Greg says

    Holy #12, Batman! Them lazy, mainpulative wimenz has been taking advantage of them honest hard-workin menz that are single-handedly keeping society afloat! Now I know why all the misogynists are always so upset!

  22. raven says

    many of these “redneck” guys will be working harder than PZ Myers has in his entire life – doing some of the major labor that runs civilization – agriculture, manufacturing, carpentry, mechanic work, etc..

    Not to feed the troll but:

    1. In my area much of the blue collar work is done by immigrants, mostly from Mexico but also from a dozen or so other nations.

    2. PZ Myers works harder than just about anyone I know and the people I know work very hard. And doesn’t get paid a whole lot for it considering.

    Hard enough that I used to tell him to delegate to avoid burnout, until I realized he wasn’t going to.

    BTW, increasing knowledge is part of running a civilization. It’s why we live in the space age rather than the stone age.

    Blue collar is my entire family, and that’s what you’re describing there. And if you’ve read this blog for any length of time, you’ll know that’s how PZ grew up, too.

    A lot of us grew up in modest circumstances to say the least. One of my friends grew up in a notorious war zone in Southeast Asia. Fuck you, dumb troll devilsadvocate.

  23. anchor says

    “At the end of the day, when you call it “male privilege,” many of these “redneck” guys will be working harder than PZ Myers has in his entire life – doing some of the major labor that runs civilization – agriculture, manufacturing, carpentry, mechanic work, etc.”

    You are either ignorant or a liar. It depends on whether you are as brightly informed as you assume or cognizant of how much your opinion departs from actuality.

    I will presume the latter.

    From my own personal experience accumulated over 50 years, I can tell you this much, pal: without people doing the HARD FUCKING WORK of figuring out how the world works, your boss would not have the slightest clue about how to successfully maintain the business that keeps your ass employed.

  24. raven says

    He’s speaking to a sportsmen’s ministry in Georgia, waving a Bible and telling the men they have to marry girls who are no more than 15 or 16, and that by 20 they are too old.

    In a lot of states, if Phil Robertson or one of the Oogedy Boogedys did that, they would end up in prison.

    Without parental permission, the age of legal marriage varies by state but is usually more like 18 than 15 or 15.

  25. anchor says

    @Rey Fox: yeah, something like that. Look at the map. Look at the binary structure of the political system divided between republican and democrat. Why isn’t the word ‘half’ justified by your ‘question’?

  26. Rey Fox says

    I don’t really understand how you can be angry at some guy for being simultaneously “homophobic” and “Islamophobic.”

    Try harder.

    There are many people who have very egalitarian and/or happy relationships in traditional family structure, and even some who get married young and love it. There are others who are not particularly fond of that.

    Well then it’s a good thing we’re not telling people when they should and shouldn’t marry, aside from maybe suggesting that it’s a decision that shouldn’t be made before legal adulthood, and that Phil’s rationale of specifically marrying women younger than them who have not reached the age of legal adulthood is exploitive (and that that exploitiveness is very much part of his reasoning).

    Yes, what Phil said was pretty sexist, but

    Just stop right there.

    “Cook dinner for me and love me and I’ll work eight to ten hours a day sweating in the hot sun for you doing hard work.” Sounds like a sucker’s bet.

    You should’ve stopped.

  27. anchor says

    Oh, I get what you were on about now. Slick, you are.

    Do I need to explain it for everybody now too?

  28. Rey Fox says

    anchor: From the rest of your post regarding the Southern accent, it sounded like you were making out bigotry and all its friends out to be a Southern problem.

  29. says

    FWIW, the alleged Washington statement appears to go back to an argument for the existence of a deity attributed to George Washington in an 1835 biography intended for children written by James Kirke Paulding, slavery advocate and opponent of naval steamships. While serving as secretary to the Board of Navy Commissioners (1815-23) Paulding, according to the introduction to the book, used to ask people who had known George Washington, or people who had known people who had known George Washington, for anecdotes about him. Although he declines to give any authority for the stories he uses, he assures us he would not have included them if he did not have the utmost faith in their veracity. (As one of them is the often-debunked horse-breaking story, a parallel to the cherry-tree story with George’s mother standing in for his father, his ability to distinguish between gold and dung may be considered suspect.) One of these stories, given like all of them with no authority but Paulding’s word he got it from somebody, involves Washington’s arguing against a man who did not believe in a deity:

    It is impossible to account for the creation of the universe without the agency of a Supreme Being.

    It is impossible to govern the universe without the aid of a Supreme Being.

    It is impossible to reason without arriving at a Supreme Being. Religion is as necessary to reason, as reason is to religion. The one cannot exist without the other. A reasoning being would lose his reason in attempting to account for the great phenomena of nature, had he not a Supreme Being to refer to; and well has it been said, that if there had been no God, mankind would have been obliged to imagine one.

    In 1864 a fellow named B. F. Morris, a kind of spiritual ancestor of David Barton and his ilk, published a book called The Christian Life and Character of the Civil Institutions of the United States in which he quoted Washington as having said “It is impossible to govern the universe without God” and “a fortiori, impossible to govern a nation without him.” As was his custom he gave no source, but as he used Paulding’s children’s book elsewhere, it seems likely that that was his source here as well. A few years later the American Tract Society was misquoting it as “It is impossible to govern the world without God.” This form remained popular for several decades, until Howard H. Russell (A Lawyer’s Examination of the Bible) put it into the form generally given today: “It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible.”

    Another similar saying, “You cannot govern without God in the picture” appears to take something often said by James Montgomery Boice (1938-2000) to the effect that “without God in the picture we have no sure means of guiding government properly” and combine it with the fake Washington saying.

    None of the later forms have even the pretence of some sort of authority; the earliest depends on the sharpness of Paulding’s critical acumen and the veracity of his unknown informant for any authority it might lay claim to. I don’t believe either is worth much, myself.

  30. normolsen says

    “Cook dinner for me and love me and I’ll work eight to ten hours a day sweating in the hot sun for you doing hard work.”

    Oh man, that’s the exact line I used to propose to my high school sweetheart! And now look at me, all old and alone and sad. I can’t believe that didn’t work.

  31. Gregory Greenwood says

    normolsen @ 35;

    Oh man, that’s the exact line I used to propose to my high school sweetheart! And now look at me, all old and alone and sad. I can’t believe that didn’t work.

    *Channels the misogynist arsehattery of Phil Robertson*

    “Y’all said High school sweatheart? There’s your problem; you waited too long, until she was old enough to have opinions and think for herself and do that kind of unwomanly stuff. You need to start earlier than that. Anybody who’s in the know will tell you that kindergarden is where the prime marital pickings are at. Well, unless you can get to them in the womb. Stick a ring on a semi-formed foetal limb and you can’t go wrong…”

    */Phil Robertson*

  32. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    “There’s good duck-pluckin’ on a fetus.”

    *multipleshowers*

  33. mnb0 says

    “And if you didn’t know, are you at all surprised?”
    Exactly the question I was going to ask you, PZ.

  34. ck says

    Let me see if I can sum up devilsadvocate’s argument:

    I’m not sexist, but I’ll say something sexist anyway.
    Generic complaint about lazy ivory tower intellectual.
    Homemaking is easy and should only take an hour or so each day.
    Anecdote as unquestionable proof.
    What is male privilege anyway? Nothing.
    My friend is whipped, which totally proves women hold all the power.
    By opposing Robertson, you’re suppressing free association (and probably free speech, too)!
    The homophobe is the real victim, here.
    Political correctness gone mad.
    Be tolerant of intolerance, you intolerant liberals!
    All Muslims are bad, even though I know nothing about the differences between Shia, Sunni, Sufism, Ibadi, etc.
    If you oppose adolescent marriage, you want all women to live lonely, miserable lives!
    More stuff about how men work harder than women that is totally not sexist.

    If we were playing apologist bingo, I’m pretty sure the entire room would have a blackout at this point.

  35. anchor says

    @#33 Rey Fox:

    “anchor: From the rest of your post regarding the Southern accent, it sounded like you were making out bigotry and all its friends out to be a Southern problem.”

    You are grievously wrong in what you decided it sounded like.

    Perhaps we may attribute part of this tendency to a culture (“and all its friends”) that habitually listens to what words ‘sound like’ rather than what words denote.

  36. anteprepro says

    I don’t like submissive women as a male, nor am I particularly interested in excessively abrasive women.

    You misspelled “uppity”.

    At the end of the day, when you call it “male privilege,” many of these “redneck” guys will be working harder than PZ Myers has in his entire life

    Because the only hard work is manual labor. It doesn’t matter how much actual effort and time is required by your job, if it does have you sweatin’, then it doesn’t count!

    I love how common this shit is. Getting blue collar poor to pridefully take a shit all over service industry poor while the 1% sit and laugh at us getting into a pissing much over who is tearing ourselves up more to really EARN that minimum wage.

    I spent time with him maybe twice without the accompaniment of his girlfriend and subsequently wife. I never heard him say anything along the lines of “make sure she can cook for me” or anything so sexist, but they did certainly fall into that pattern and it would be absolutely false of me to say that the two of them weren’t happy as clams with each other. He works hard, she hardly works, they scrape by.

    Anecdotal evidence is best evidence.

    If anything, she had solid reigns on my friend and drove him like a bridled puppy.

    It’s adorable that every single person who has made this argument seemingly think they are the first person to have this insight. Oh so clever. Mansplain to us some more about how men are the REAL victims, here. Do go on.

    There are many people who have very egalitarian and/or happy relationships in traditional family structure,

    And yet you go on to describe relationships that are not egalitarian at all. In fact, that is the entire basis of your argument. Being Devil’s Advocate doesn’t give you free reign to just throw whatever shit you want against a wall and hope that we build a coherent argument out of it for you.

    regardless of its political correctness.

    Why didn’t I fetch the bingo cards from the very start!!?

    We all have to live in this world and that means that the fourteenth amendment needs to be taken seriously for people of diverse belief and lifestyle sets and conditions.

    If you take racist and Islamophobia out of that sentence, you’ve pretty much described 90% of the Islamic world, other than the fact that dominionism is a uniquely western term

    “OMG that totes describes teh Muslims if you ignore half the words!!!”

    I mean, the Islamic world actually hangs gays to death

    Well, it would be probably less humane if they didn’t hang them to death. I mean, hanging them but keeping them alive is torture. That’s U.S. territory, bub.

    There are other women who are very happy being in monogamous relationships. I think it’s really inappropriate to characterize all women as being victims of all traditional family structures.

    Yes. It is very inappropriate. Because, as already proven, Men Are The Real Victims.

    Yes, what Phil said was pretty sexist

    But I guess he’s in good sexist company, right, Mr. Sadvocate?

    “Cook dinner for me and love me and I’ll work eight to ten hours a day sweating in the hot sun for you doing hard work.” Sounds like a sucker’s bet.

    And you misspelled “sexist’s perspective”.

  37. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    If we were playing apologist bingo, I’m pretty sure the entire room would have a blackout at this point.

    I wonder if he’ll try to claim this statement is racist, as a gotcha.

  38. ekwhite says

    Devil’s advocate @12:

    Massive fail. If you had read the OP or anything else about Phil Robertson, you would know that he is a yuppie millionare pretending to be a redneck, not blue collar. He is a fake on top of being a bigot. I’m glad your friend and his wife are happy together, but I am sure she works a lot harder than you think she does. My father and mother both worked because the couldn’t make it on just his income. Mother also took care of the household, with the help of us kids. I can tell you she worked harder than any man I knew, as did both of my grandmothers.

    Anchor @20:

    I was born with an hideous and evil Drawl. You are a bigot.

    Carlie@23: You spoke the truth. Thank you.

  39. millssg99 says

    Perhaps we may attribute part of this tendency to a culture (“and all its friends”) that habitually listens to what words ‘sound like’ rather than what words denote.

    I thought it ‘sounded like’ a drawl. Pardon us for misunderstanding your focus on denotation. Perhaps we may attribute the confusion to your tendency towards Drawlophobia and CountryMusicaophobia.

    JFC.

  40. robro says

    rave @#21

    There is more to being a fundie xian than that. You left out:

    You left out Commies and Socialism, Asians (particularly Japanese), and a slew of others but as you say, it’s hard to keep up with all the hates.

    1. Hinduphobia and Paganphobia.

    The irony of the Christian attitude toward “pagan” is that Christianity was once a pagan cult. Pagan just means “of the villagers” rather than officially sanctioned. In its early days Christianity was exactly that: a folk cult with no official approval.

  41. anchor says

    blockquote fail…

    @#33Rey Fox

    Again, with heart:

    “anchor: From the rest of your post regarding the Southern accent, it sounded like you were making out bigotry and all its friends out to be a Southern problem.”

    You are grievously wrong in what you decided it sounded like.

    Perhaps we may attribute part of this tendency to a culture (“and all its friends”) that habitually listens to what words ‘sound like’ rather than what words denote.

    I must add: I am curious…what exactly ISN’T the problem with a culture (concentrated as it is in the southern states) that uses drawl dialect as a common means of validating words?

  42. Billy Clyde Tuggle says

    I think suspending Phil was probably a violation of the Equal Employment Opportunity Act as he was stating a religiously based belief regardless of its political correctness.

    I was wondering about this myself. To what extent to does EEO law protect this sort of thing? If I work for a company owned by Christians and they fire me because they are offended by comments I have made on my atheist blog, presumably I would have a good EEO case, right?

    Likewise, if I fire an employee because I find their religious views offensive, presumably they would have recourse to EEO law. How is the Phil Robertson / A&E situation different? Can A&E effectively legally inoculate itself against an EEO problem with someone like Robertson by putting the appropriate clauses in their employment contracts?

  43. anteprepro says

    anchor, you are being a douche. Your first post oozed with contempt for the Southern drawl, and your follow-ups have only been smug reaffirmations of the two known facts:
    1. You don’t like the Southern U.S.
    2. You are a self-satisfied, condescending asshole.

    The Southern U.S. has it’s problems. Their manner of speech isn’t one of them. Fuck off.

  44. chigau (違う) says

    anchor
    I, too, thought that your #20 was some kind of regional and possibly classist slur.
    I am Canadian.

  45. millssg99 says

    anchor is confused because he listens to what words “sound like” instead of what they “denote”.

  46. Rey Fox says

    I think the point that anchor is groping at is that accents can serve as in-group and out-group markers for people in various geographical and economic classes.

  47. Jackie wishes she could hibernate says

    Anchor,
    Stop and frisk is happening on the streets of NY. Blue states are not immune to bigotry.

    BTW, up until recently my state, KY, was blue. That does not mean it was ever a bastion of progressive values. We had union workers and farmers who were only voting Democrat to protect their own interests.

  48. Jackie wishes she could hibernate says

    Anchor,
    Do you have any idea how any of us sound irl? You have no idea what accents we have or what that indicates about us as people.

  49. anchor says

    @#43 ekwhite

    “I was born with an hideous and evil Drawl. You are a bigot.”

    You overreact to my post to express your opinion. Good. I have no problem with it.

    But you are dead wrong in your reaction.

  50. Woo_Monster, Sniffer of Starfarts says

    Pompous ass,

    Good. I have no problem with it.

    If multiple people told me to re-examine what I was saying because it sounded bigoted to them, I wouldn’t be quite so cavalier*.

    Fuck off.

  51. anteprepro says

    You overreact to my post to express your opinion.

    The irony being that the original post was itself an overreaction. An over loud denounciation of Southern drawl, followed up with the implication that it was also a fault of Southern culture. And smothered in a fine smugness sauce.

    Admit you have been acting like an utter asshole or just shut the fuck up.

  52. anchor says

    Holy SHIT.

    In the time it takes me to attend to dinner and prepare tea, I see some readers chomping on to a fabricated sleight and wag it about as if it was vermin.

    I would JOIN you in any such affront…if it was real.

    I might have commented in a little more detail on how such drawl-speak figures so prominently not only in the religious quarter of the south but how by peculiar happenstance it seems to despise truth.

    You all know how hard it can be to crack a nut open.

    Good bye.

  53. chigau (違う) says

    re:#61
    It’s all good then.
    (haz a wee bit of porcupine nostalgia)
    Are we taking bets on the flounce?

  54. ck says

    anchor, I think it’s time to remember the first rule of holes: When you find yourself in one — stop digging!

  55. anchor says

    here’s your flounce chigau.

    I wouldn’t have thought the invitation would have come from you. ;(

    Natural selection at work, by golly.

  56. millssg99 says

    Anchor’s “fabricated sleight”:

    There is nothing more hideous and evil than that sing-song DRAAAWL

    That hideous nasal drawl

  57. anchor says

    ck – I know that rule well, thank you very much. where exactly have I dug, aside from my ONLY RESPONSES to you and chigau? Everything else has been an avalanche. Go read it for yourself.

  58. littlebear says

    anchor: I’m going to assume you are genuinely confused here. Basically you screwed up when you made a generalization based on what a person sounds like. When you made comments on all people in the south because of an accent (something they have no control over). There are plenty of things you can criticise people on without resorting to making fun of how they talk. Don’t do that.

  59. llamaherder says

    You overreact to my post to express your opinion. Good. I have no problem with it.

    But you are dead wrong in your reaction.

    As long as we’re telling people which reactions are right and which are wrong, I would suggest reacting differently to the sound of a southern drawl. Preferably by avoiding the labels “hideous” and “evil”.

    Your intentions don’t matter nearly as much as your words. If it wasn’t your intent to attack southerners, I would suggest reacting by apologizing the next time you run in to a similar situation. Being defensive in this sort of situation removes any hope of clarifying your intentions, which means you get to continue looking like an asshole.

  60. Pteryxx says

    I’ll just leave this here…

    Thanks to Phil, I now know where everyone in my family stands on the issue of whether or not I’m a human being.

    I even saw a “friend” of mine post something about how gay people can’t be Christians. Wow. Not only will they keep us from having equal rights, but they’ll keep us from equal salvation. We can’t just be second-class citizens. We have second-class souls.

    I drive through town, much like the girl in Bob’s story, and I see everyone talking about how right Phil is. How they have Christian values by excluding about 15 percent of the population from their religion.

    Phil claims to love everyone, and I have to believe that he has the best of intentions for saying what he said. But he must realize the damage that those words do to people like me.

    He encouraged – hopefully unintentionally – a two-week-long “fag bashing” in Monroe and around the world. He made me feel unsafe in my own home. I can’t count how many times I heard “faggot” over the Christmas visit home.

    All of this is in a state that still has laws against, and still arrests people for, having homosexual relations.

    I remember hearing about Matthew Sheppard. I remember learning about Harvey Milk. I’ve never been under any impression that northeast Louisiana is safe for gays.

    And people say Phil is being persecuted for his beliefs.

    h/t Rawstory

  61. anchor says

    millssg99

    That was not the fabricated sleight I was referring to, and thank you very much for affixing my meaning out of context.

    I now understand how this works around here…and what PZ has to go through.

    /end

  62. Steven Brown: Man of Mediocrity says

    I might have commented in a little more detail on how such drawl-speak figures so prominently not only in the religious quarter of the south but how by peculiar happenstance it seems to despise truth.

    anchor: You seem to think that we’ve misunderstood you but every time you elaborate you still come across as judging an entire section of the populous by their accent. You can’t see how that’s a vile thing to do?

    If you have a point other than that you’re doing a terrible job of communicating it. Maybe try using smaller words because you don’t seem to be able to wield larger ones with the precision required.

  63. anchor says

    Steven Brown: Man of Mediocrity

    “If you have a point other than that you’re doing a terrible job of communicating it. Maybe try using smaller words because you don’t seem to be able to wield larger ones with the precision required.”

    Except, as you may have discovered, I haven’t been responding

  64. nutella says

    Billy Clyde Tuggle

    To what extent to does EEO law protect this sort of thing? … How is the Phil Robertson / A&E situation different?

    He told us what holes he likes to f*ck. He told us how happy the coloreds were before they got all uppity thinking they were entitled to welfare. He actually said that back in the good old Jim Crow days, they weren’t “singing the blues”.

    Those are not religious positions although many people who call themselves Christians hold them. I don’t think A&E would have any problem making a legal case for firing Duckie for crude and offensive public statements if, that is, they had any objection to crude and offensive public statements.

  65. chigau (違う) says

    anchor #74

    Except, as you may have discovered, I haven’t been responding.

    Now that is a prize-winner.

  66. loreo says

    @robro, #45:

    In the original interview, Robertson asserted that the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor because they didn’t have enough Jesus.

  67. Onamission5 says

    Anchor, I believe, was referring in their original comment to a certain style of sing-song oration that preachers (and sometimes politicians) deliberately develop to hold their congregation’s attention, not a regional dialect or inflection used in typical conversation, but a specific type of religious performance speech meant to infer an air of importance and Deep Meaning.

    Their wording was clumsy (evil drawls? really?) and I get why people are pissed. Then again, I could be being overly charitable here and they really do loathe the way southerners talk.

  68. says

    On the topic of “censorship” I find the outrage a bit amusing. This is a so-called “reality” show, not news. It’s supposedly a form of entertainment. As such, when the people in charge decide it’s not entertaining anymore, for whatever reason, they pull the plug. Quite frankly, it’s a freak show. So when one of the freaks in the freak show acts like one, everyone gets up in arms?

    Entirely by accident A&E did a great public service. For years the right-wing has tried to argue that we live in a “post-racism” society, that discrimination no longer exists; therefore, we do not need anti-discrimination laws anymore. The Phil Robertson comments are only the most recent in a string of bigots outing themselves. The support they receive speaks volumes. Thank you A&E for turning over a rock then letting the world see what’s crawling around underneath it.

    I love how bigots keep revealing themselves. Rick Santorum, Don Yelton (NC republican party hack who called blacks “lazy” in a TV interview), Paula Deen and now this guy. It’s a good thing to see what we’re up against.

  69. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Anchor, I believe, was referring in their original comment to a certain style of sing-song oration that preachers (and sometimes politicians) deliberately develop to hold their congregation’s attention, not a regional dialect or inflection used in typical conversation, but a specific type of religious performance speech meant to infer an air of importance and Deep Meaning.

    This was my take as well.

  70. cicely says

    Problem is, there are (unbelievable as it seems) a good many people who mistake the “reality” of Reality TV, with reality.
    For that matter, there are also people who confuse TV in general, with reality.
    -

  71. microraptor says

    Thomathy from post 10 wrote:

    Perhaps the worst thing about this is that the show was effectively cancelled when A&E pulled Robertson from it due to outrage. However, 9 days later (and following a major run on useless merchandise of all sorts – Christmas), the show is back on and Robertson didn’t even end up missing any days of filming.

    A&E is retracting its decision, because, get this, Duck Dynasty is a ‘family show’ and A&E, at its core, is a family network.

    I believe the official release from A&E neglects to mention MONEY!!!lll!!!1

    The show was never effectively canceled. Phil was “suspended” for a period of time when the show wasn’t being filmed to begin with, which is about as big a deal as if my boss put me on notice for 10 minutes during my lunch break.

    The whole thing stinks of careful orchestration by A&E, which given the nature of the statements makes it even more heinous.

  72. anteprepro says

    Regarding what anchor meant:

    Well anchor certainly didn’t help in clarifying the matter, simply deciding to respond to the matter with little bouts of righteous indignation rather than differentiating the “drawl” referred to from the drawl of the average southerner. In fact, I would say that anchor was doubling down on what we perceived as contempt towards Southerners with the pot-shot about “culture” in 40, the insistence that it does, in fact, “infect” exactly half of the population, and the repeat mention of “drawl dialect” in 46, without clarification or caveat.

    As for anchor’s responses 61 and on: crocodile tears. If you have stepped on someone else’s toes and they say so, you step back and listen, and maybe even apologize if warranted. You don’t stand there with your arms folded, scowling and muttering about how you aren’t doing anything wrong, refusing to budge or listen. But, no, poor misunderstood anchor. Misread, misinterpreted. Such the victim.

  73. Onamission5 says

    @chiagu #84:

    I stared at their comment @ #20 for a long-assed while before I parsed that out of it. If that’s what anchor meant, it was not initially clear at all, and I think that a better rewording on their part rather than defensiveness when misunderstood could have gone a long way.

    I make no apologetics for their behavior after the fact.

  74. says

    “You don’t stand there with your arms folded, scowling and muttering about how you aren’t doing anything wrong, refusing to budge or listen.”

    Interesting interpretation of that incomprehensible gibberish. My interpretation was some kind of Nostradamus-like prophesy.

  75. says

    , and their wives love them like crazy and don’t have to work. They cook dinner and get to spend the rest of the day doing whatever they want.

    Yep, that’s why we never pay cooks, jaintors and nannies. They clearly don’t work and just do whatever they want. If you take your dirty clothing to a laundry and tell them that you work hard all day they will return them washed and ironed completly free of charge.

    If anything, she had solid reigns on my friend and drove him like a bridled puppy.

    Yep, and e all know that if she would get divorced she would just get to keep everything and he would have to slave-work his ass off for the rest of his life because they’re living in Femigynotopia.

    I don’t really understand how you can be angry at some guy for being simultaneously “homophobic” and “Islamophobic.

    That’s because we think that both gays and muslims are people.

    I mean, the Islamic world actually hangs gays to death

    There’s no such thing as an “Islamic world”, but there’s sure such a thing as racist islamophobes.

  76. theoreticalgrrrl says

    Anchor didn’t do anything to merit the nastiness directed at him. People misinterpreted what he said. It happens, especially when you aren’t speaking face to face. But no benefit of the doubt, no good faith? Just assume the worst and dog pile on people, call them assholes and tell them to shut the fuck up.

    I admit I’ve told people to fuck off on occasion, but at least I can re-think and apologize for my heat of the moment reaction.

  77. unclefrogy says

    I started to try to understand what anchor was trying to say but gave up and read on. Seems there was the expected reaction some people took in the worst light and instead of admitting that he as misunderstood he just kept on being even more inscrutable and trying to sound clever.
    Anchor is no Paul Krassner nor Lenny Bruce and that is giving him the benefit of the doubt that he thinks of his written communications like that. Not many can pull that off any way.
    Besides there are more than a few who can speak with that kind of accent that are expert in puncturing over inflated egos and explaining the truth in very clear language

  78. millssg99 says

    A southern drawl is an accent with elongated vowels. His original post specifically drew out the “a”in the word “drawl”.

    He repeated emphasis on the word drawl and southern culture in subsequent posts at the same time preaching at us to take people at their literal word and not try to interpret them.

    Sing song cadence and drawl are two different things and he emphasized the later over the former. Besides song song cadence and drawl aren’t related. In fact drawl is generally associated with a slower manner of speaking.

    Anchor is ignorant of how people in the south talk. He took a shot. In this particular subject, offensive speech, the first defense is “I was misunderstood”. Not only did he not backpedal he piled on.

    I was letting it go until his follow up where he insisted we take him at his literal word. I think the literal meaning of “evil” and “hideous” applied to drawl and nasal draw are pretty clear.

    I actually do think people overreact to speech, take it out of context, don’t give benefit of the doubt, etc. people on this blog are not generally forgiving of such speech.
    I think anchor’s original post was contemptuous of people in the south and the way some speak. But he was the one who like a “pompous ass” insisted we not interpret but take him literally.

  79. Thomathy, Gay Where it Counts says

    @ #85, microraptor

    The show was never effectively canceled.

    I had understood that the rest of the cast wouldn’t work considering Phil’s suspension, so the show was ‘effectively canceled’.

    Phil was “suspended” for a period of time when the show wasn’t being filmed to begin with

    Yes. I believe, in so many words, I did mention that he was pulled from the show but didn’t miss any filming of it.

    which is about as big a deal as if my boss put me on notice for 10 minutes during my lunch break.

    Except an international dialogue isn’t started when you’re put on notice during your lunch break and I don’t presume that either you or your boss stand to make obscene amounts of money from the resulting hubbub (another thing I can’t imagine there being). Or, it’s not at all comparable to such a situation either in degree or result.

    The whole thing stinks of careful orchestration by A&E, which given the nature of the statements makes it even more heinous.

    Yes, it certainly does seem like careful orchestration. I intimated that as well.

    The give away was ‘MONEY!!!lll!!!1′

    Is there any other perceived correction you need to make to any of my statements so that you can effectively repeat me or are you happy to have nitpicked just the once?

    (That’s a rhetorical question; I’ll handle the snark here.)

  80. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Anchor didn’t do anything to merit the nastiness directed at him. People misinterpreted what he said. It happens, especially when you aren’t speaking face to face. But no benefit of the doubt, no good faith? Just assume the worst and dog pile on people, call them assholes and tell them to shut the fuck up.

    Well, they got angry and acted like they felt they’d been wronged when people jumped down their throat for something they were very conscious of not having been saying.

  81. Onamission5 says

    @theoreticalgrrrl#90

    I have to disagree with you there. Even being as charitable as I was trying to be with anchor’s initial comment @20, their behavior after the fact belies an attitude toward southerners in general that is not at all warranted. If that is not what anchor meant, they could have clarified, rather than entrenching themselves further. I can read anchor’s initial comment with good faith and also acknowledge that in their comments which followed they were being an ass.

  82. theoreticalgrrrl says

    @Onamission5
    I’m not sure what you mean by the behavior after the fact, other than his or her annoyance at people dog-piling on them, calling them a pompous ass, a bigot, told fuck you, to fuck off, snickering at a possible “flounce” on their part. I would be defending myself if people misinterpreted me and started trash-talking me. Why is defending yourself a bad thing which merits even further nastiness?

    I know someone who commented here for the first time and they were accused of being “douchey” when they were trying to be supportive, which turned them off from commenting at all on this blog. They didn’t bad-mouth people here after, they were just a little baffled by the response. I know everyone thinks they have a righteous reason to call people douches or pompous asses, but some people really take it too far. A person’s intent should matter, I don’t care if you believe ‘intent isn’t magic.’ What’s wrong with giving people a few chances before you assume they’re an asshole and you start trashing them?

  83. Rey Fox says

    anchor was nothing but pompous, condescending, and opaque to me, so I have no trouble with calling them as such.

  84. Onamission5 says

    @98:

    A person’s intent is not a separate entity from their actions. The two are connected. If I intend to say one thing but choose my words so badly that people hear something else, does it make it worse or better for me to mock their hurt instead of clarifying?

  85. says

    theorheticalgrrrl:

    What’s wrong with giving people a few chances before you assume they’re an asshole and you start trashing them?

    Nothing at all. You seem to ignore the several people who did go the charitable route, and the ones who attempted to get anchor to clarify their position.

    Per the commenting rules:

    Recognize that your words may not perfectly convey your content — and that the words of other commenters may not perfectly convey theirs. When necessary, clarify what you mean, or ask other commenters to clarify what they meant.

    When someone says something apparently stupid or vile, verify before opening fire. Express your objection and ask them to rephrase their statement. Then open fire.

    What anchor did not do was to recognize how their content was coming across. You really don’t need to be a defensive asshole when that happens, it’s happened to most of the regulars here. Explaining and clarifying go a very long way, and most people here will happily accept that and move on.

    Now, discussing the overall attitude and actions of the commentariat is a derail in this thread, which is about a specific topic. If you wish to keep arguing, please click over to Thunderdome.

  86. Ichthyic says

    many of these “redneck” guys will be working harder than PZ Myers has in his entire life

    I stopped reading your ignorant screed right at that point.

    you know fuck all about how hard it is to be full time prof these days, or how hard it even is to get there.

    at that point, experience tells me you know fuck all about most things, except how to use the internet.

  87. Thumper: Token Breeder says

    @theoreticalgrrrl #98

    If Anchor was misinterpreted then they should have clarified. They didn’t. They just started whining about people being mean.

  88. ChasCPeterson says

    Jeez, I spend 8-10 hours Working in the hot sun, manufacturing high-end duck calls, I come home, NO DINNER, and then this mess?