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Oct 14 2013

[Lounge #438]

This is the lounge. You can discuss anything you want, but you will do it kindly.

Status: Heavily Moderated; Previous thread

716 comments

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  1. 501
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    blf:

    One problem with your #500: at hypersonic speeds, the beer, once released, would be pure foam. Undrinkable.

  2. 502
    David Marjanović

    David M*outstretching arms in preparation for a returnpouncehug before leaping to deliver it* =^_^=

    Yay! =^_^=

    Whereabouts in meatspace are you? Alternatively, are you coming to Skepticon?

    Schadenfreude Pie

    Reading through the list of ingredients, it sounds delicious!

    “Joy at the misfortune of others — and pie! Truly, the best of all possible worlds.”

    Bookmarked. :-)

    Kent Brockman: Alright, let’s go live to Bob headquarters now, for Mayor Terwilliger’s victory speech.
    TV Tropes: Evil Laugh

    *hugs* for you, enough that you can share, as needed.

    Seconded.

    I hope we can meet this year!

    ==================


    Tell Ted Cruz to stop playing games with our democracy.

    Senator Cruz has just taken the extraordinary step of blocking a nominee to the FCC until he promises Cruz that he won’t require Super PACs to disclose their funders.

    The 2010 Citizens United ruling paved the way for stealth Super PACs to bombard states with attack ads funded by dark money. Now, Senator Cruz and his Tea Party allies are trying to prevent that sort of accountability for their Super PAC funders. That’s just not right for our democracy.

    Sign your name [...] to join Sen. Shaheen in telling Ted Cruz to stop playing his political games.”

    The second link is not included in the original. :->

    ==================

    Oh. I overlooked this:

    David M and rq: You may (or may not) be interested in the Indo-European phylogenetic tree produced by UPGMA (Unweighted Pair-Group Method with Arithmetic mean), on page 11 of

    http://eprints.biblio.unitn.it/1917/1/Phylogenetic_Inference_DISI.pdf

    Among other less surprising (to me) results, it seems to imply a closer relationship between Balto-Slavic and Indo-Aryan languages than between Balto-Slavic and other European groups.

    That paper is interesting. It should have been reviewed by a biologist or two, though, and even on the linguistic side there’s some strangeness – in the introduction, the authors misrepresent multilateral comparison: it’s a method to generate hypotheses, not to rigorously test them; it’s a way to identify questions that are worth a look.

    Biologists haven’t used UPGMA for phylogenetics in 20 years. As the authors mention, it requires that everything in the dataset evolved at pretty much the same speed, which never happens. When this assumption is violated, UPGMA succumbs to long-branch attraction, a problem the authors spell out for maximum parsimony but which in reality affects all methods (just to different extents – most try to deal with it, UPGMA doesn’t even try).

    The claim that maximum parsimony is “very time-consuming” is ridiculous! On ordinary desktops available in 2010 (when the paper was written), all most parsimonious trees that account for the dataset of that paper should be found in a matter of hours! Moore’s Law is teh pwnz0r.

    The really baffling part is that the authors develop a method to derive models of evolution from the data – this is routine in molecular phylogenetics, but I’ve never before seen it in linguistic phylogenetics, so it’s a huge step forward! – and then use UPGMA, which can’t use a model! Instead, they used the model to transform the raw similarity matrix into a distance matrix that somehow accounts for everything. Way too many layers of inference for my taste – too much can go wrong along the way. A maximum-likelihood analysis of a dataset that size should be done in, I don’t know, a day or two.

    Citing the Ethnologue (ref. 39), a list of languages compiled by missionaries, as evidence that a language belongs to a particular family is… worse than citing Wikipedia.

    Figure 2 shows the UPGMA tree. UPGMA trees come with a scale that shows the distances. The scale is not included in the figure.

    The tree itself is interesting. The shallow branchings are mostly resolved in a correct way or nearly so, with exceptions caused by long-branch attraction, like the position of the French-based creoles (far from French, as the sister-group to all other Romance languages), the position of East Romance (Sardinian is clearly the sister-group to all other Romance languages together, but East Romance has been under strong influence from other language families), the position of English plus the creole based on it (this branch is in reality the sister-group of Frisian), and the positions of “Gypsy Gk” (some Romani variety spoken in Greece, I guess; belongs on the Lahnda-Panjabi-Hindi branch) and Sin(g)halese (it’s the sister-group of all surviving Indic languages, while Kashmiri belongs to the Dardic languages, the sister-group of Indic). The deep branchings, however, mostly sit on very, very short internodes. Balto-Slavic has a long one; unsurprisingly, Balto-Slavic is the most obvious intermediate-sized subgroup of PIE. Indo-Iranian, similarly obvious, has a reasonably long one, too. But all other internodes in that region are worryingly short. Even the branch for Celtic – Celtic alone! – is much, much shorter than anyone would expect. Short internodes mean little evidence.

    That’s sad, because those internodes are the interesting part. The longest of them support a node that connects Indo-Iranian with Balto-Slavic, which is not crazy (the two share some innovations in the sound system, for example), and Romance with Albanian, which is rather worrying: the position of Albanian is a big mystery, but while there’s good evidence (if not much of it) for an Italo-Celtic branch, Albanian doesn’t fit in there, lacking its innovations.

    It is encouraging that the craziest part, the position of Germanic as the sister-group of everything else except Armenian, is supported by the shortest internode!

    The position of Armenian is traditionally mysterious, though there’s some evidence for a closer relationship to Greek. The position in this tree may be a random effect of the very distant outgroup, Turkish.

    Figure 3 shows the NJ tree. It is almost identical to the UPGMA tree. Celtic and Germanic come out as sister-groups, but that’s supported by an extremely short internode, the shortest of all; its sister-group is the Romance/Albanian clade, and all internodes in this region are very short, so I’ll just say it’s not far off.

    I conclude that both of these methods aren’t apt to tell us pretty much anything new about Indo-European phylogeny.

  3. 503
    rq

    David
    Remind me to transcribe for you when I get home.
    Also, thanks for that quick analysis of the linguistics paper. I’m still going to try and read it, seeing as I’m woefully out of the practice of reading linguistics papers (keeping in mind the points that you make).

    +++

    I know I’ve been too long at work when my memory starts shorting out (printing 3 and 4 copies of everything…). Ah well, three reports to go, rah rah rah goooo ME!

  4. 504
    Crudely Wrott

    I’ve just been told that last night my younger daughter laid down and died.

    I’m going to her house now because I want to hold her mother and I want to be held.

    Oh

  5. 505
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Oh, shit, Crudely Wrott. That’s horrible. Hugs to you. Take care of yourself.

  6. 506
    rq

    Crudely Wrott!!! :( :( :( !!!
    *hugs*

  7. 507
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Crudely Wrott,

    I’m so sorry. all the *hugs*

  8. 508
    Lynna, OM

    There was some discussion on the previous page of the [Lounge] about the extremist anti-choice attorney who used to serve as Attorney General in Kansas. Phil Kline was finally stripped of his law license. But his license was only suspended for three years. It should have been for life.

    Rachel Maddow covered this story so so so well. http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show

    Her exposé of all the unethical and illegal crap in which Phil Kline indulged is masterful. Of course, as usual, Rachel puts the whole issue in historical context, and in Kansas-politics context. The segment is 20 minutes long, and all of it is good, but the first 13:30 minutes are essential for understanding the entire story.

    Rachel didn’t say this, but I will. Too many far-right whackos on the anti-abortion side are willing to celebrate violence and illegal tactics. Now they have Republican legislatures encouraging them. This total lack of ethics is sown and nutured in the fertile bed of christianity. (They even have “missionaries.”)

  9. 509
    Parrowing

    I’m so sorry, Crudely. Here are some *hugs*.

  10. 510
    Lynna, OM

    This may have already been posted, but if so, I missed it.

    A “Luxury Bishop” in Germany spent 31 million euros ($42 million) on his personal digs. Catholic version of austerity?
    Reuters link.

  11. 511
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Dang Crudely, my sincerest sympathy.

  12. 512
    Lynna, OM

    No more contraception for you!

    … Far-right groups have rallied around the claim that publicly subsidized coverage for birth control forces them to violate their consciences.

    So it’s little surprise the topic took center stage at this year’s Values Voters Summit. At a panel on the ACA, “Obamacare” to many, speakers decried the bill and the Department of Health and Human Service’s contraceptive mandate in particular as a terrific blow to religious liberty….

    https://www.au.org/blogs/wall-of-separation/contraception-conundrum-the-religious-right-redefines-contraception

  13. 513
    Lynna, OM

    I’ve just been told that last night my younger daughter laid down and died.

    Crudely, that is just bloody awful.

    We’re here for you.

  14. 514
    Lynna, OM

    Given the requisite beliefs…. an entire culture will support such evil. Malala is the best thing to come out of the Muslim world in a thousand years. She is an extraordinarily brave and eloquent girl who is doing what millions of Muslim men and women are too terrified to do—stand up to the misogyny of traditional Islam. — Sam Harris

    “The Taliban think we are not Muslims, but we are. We believe in God more than they do, and we trust him to protect us…..I’m still following my own culture, Pashtun culture….Islam says that it is not only each child’s right to get education, rather it is their duty and responsibility.” — Malala

    http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/no-ordinary-violence/

    Harris is painting with too broad a brush. And he seems to be misinterpreting what Malala actually said. No matter Harris’ effusive praise, disregarding what she actually said is a sign of disrespect.

  15. 515
    Lynna, OM

    …The court unanimously found that Kline’s “overzealous advocacy” and “improper motives” led to “significant and numerous” violations of professional conduct, which the court deemed “particularly troubling in light of his service as the chief prosecuting attorney for this state and its most populous county.

    Salon coverage of Phil Kline.

  16. 516
    Lynna, OM

    In the USA treatment for the mentally ill includes gunning them down?

    In Dallas this week, as Gawker noted, a 59-year-old man was behaving erratically and holding a knife when his mother called the cops. When the police arrived, as surveillance footage shows, they immediately draw their weapons. Bobby Gerald Bennett was shot four times while his hands were down by his sides. He is currently in intensive care. The Dallas Police Department is now conducting an internal review.

    In Saginaw, Mich., six police officers gun down a homeless, schizophrenic man in a vacant parking lot when he refuses to drop a small folding knife. In Seattle, Wash., a police officer fatally shoots a mentally ill, chronic alcoholic as he crosses the street, carving a piece of wood with a pocket knife. In Portland, Ore., police check on a man threatening suicide and wind up killing him with a single gunshot in the back.

    http://www.salon.com/2013/10/18/dallas_police_shoot_mentally_ill_man_standing_in_the_street/

  17. 517
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    Crudely
    All the *hugs*. I’m so sorry.

  18. 518
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    Oh, Lynna. There’s worse than that!

    Portland gives medals to cops who shoot people they think are mentally ill b/c they were 20 cents short of bus fare & didn’t understand the English instructions of the bus driver, were arrested for being 20 cents short and not leaving the bus, were denied a translator, were sent to an understaffed psych hospital who also expected him to comply with instructions given in a language he didn’t understand, and finally got pissed at being locked in.

    The understaffed hospital used cops as patient security and safety, and so during a disturbance didn’t use staff’s own training and resources, but called the cops. When the person in question – Jose Santos Mejia Poot – tore a towel bar off the wall in frustration at being denied both freedom and explanation (against the law, btw, they were required to interview him w/ a translator) the cops shot him dead claiming that in that moment he had “armed himself”.

    So, yeah. These are the things for which cops are given medals in Portland. Killing someone threatening suicide by shooting them in the back? Hardly unprecedented.

  19. 519
    Tethys

    Crudely

    All my love to you and yours. I have no words, only tears and a poem.

    We are connected,
    My child and I, by
    An invisible cord
    Not seen by the eye.

    It’s not like the cord
    That connects us ’til birth
    This cord can’t been seen
    by any on Earth.

    This cord does it’s work
    Right from the start.
    It binds us together
    Attached to my heart.

    I know that it’s there
    Though no one can see
    The invisible cord
    From my child to me.

    The strength of this cord
    Is hard to describe.
    It can’t be destroyed
    It can’t be denied.

    It’s stronger than any cord
    Man could create
    It withstands the test
    Can hold any weight.

    And though you are gone,
    Though you’re not here with me,
    The cord is still there
    But no one can see.

    It pulls at my heart
    I am bruised…I am sore,
    But this cord is my lifeline
    As never before.

  20. 520
    morgan ?! epitheting a metaphor

    Crudely, I’m so terribly sorry about the death of your daughter. We are here for you.

  21. 521
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    Bloody heck, Crudely.

    I can’t imagine. All my sympathies. Let us know how you’re doing when you want to and are able.

  22. 522
    Crudely Wrott

    Oh, Tethys, thank you for your poem. It really does touch me deeply. The ties that bind. =)
    To all my fellow Hordelings, please hold me. My family is holding me. That intimacy is sustaining. You are no less family and your sympathies are no less sustaining.
    Just hold me.
    While you’re at it, hold one another. Take a moment to tell someone that you love them and that their life gives meaning to yours. That their life decorates and celebrates yours. Don’t let the moment pass. Just . . . love one another.
    ‘Anks.
    Love,
    Crudely

  23. 523
    opposablethumbs

    Crudely Wrott, I’m so, so sorry. I don’t have the words, only all my wishes for you and the family. Hope you can be together and hold each other tight.

  24. 524
    Crudely Wrott

    So. I wanted to listen to Ravel’s Pavane For A Dead Princess. I clearly recall the first time I heard it. Was just before Diane was born. I was moved to tears by the utter tenderness and longing that the music evoked.
    Only now does the true intent of the composer manifest.
    So. I go to YouTube and find this: Ravel: Pavane pour une infante défunte · Alessandro Crudele. <–
    Yes, I smiled at such an improbable coincidence. And I cried. Am still crying.
    Here's the link.
    Listen and weep your own tears for the loss of the young, all the things left undone, the songs unsung, the plans undone and when the sun rises on your tomorrow greet it with joy and squeeze it fiercely to yourself then give it away to someone else. It isn’t really yours anyhow.

    Oh, all these beginnings and endings! It’s a marvel that we cope with it all even to the poor extent that we do.

    I don’t know what else to say so I’ll just replay the piece and hug my surviving daughter. She needs hugs now even without this cruel imposition. Some new clarity pierces this cloudy day. A large portion borne to me by you. How very fortunate I am for such grace. How fortunate are we all, dear ones, dear Horde. How fortunate are we all.

    *goes to dig out old pictures — hopes to find some written things I’ve forgotten — are they still in that big box under the bed?*

  25. 525
    thesandiseattle

    well, finally finished “The Origin of Species” by Darwin. Have to say it wasn’t as big a deal as I expected it to be. I’ve seen so many quotes from it over the yrs and seen so many of the examples rehashed elsewhere I was dissappointed. Dawkins tries to say its a life changing read- only in his mind i guess. I don’t think it should be a regular read for students of science, Evolution is much better explained in other media. (and lets face it the 19th cent. writing is sometimes weighty and hard to wade through.)

    I think i’m out of science reading for a while. I’m thinking to turn to classics – Greek and Roman authors, other ancient stuff.(I have a copy of Caesar’s Gallic Wars someplace.) Also thinking to head toward early sci-fi, Verne and the like.

  26. 526
    carlie

    Oh, no. No no no no no no no. All I can do is sit here and cry with you from a distance. Hugs available here in the Lounge, any time of the day or night. Grieve here, scream in anger at the injustice of the world here, use this as an escape from obligation or sadness or anything you need.

  27. 527
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Crudely
    I’m really, really, really sorry.
    I want to hold you and your whole family of wonderful people.

  28. 528
    morgan ?! epitheting a metaphor

    Crudely,

    Thirty-five years ago my older sister died at the age of 29. Cancer. She had a 3 year old daughter, no husband, and was estranged from our bitterly strange family. But at the end, somehow, for a short while, we all came together with her and for her. Later that day I walked outside into the blazing cold sunshine and sat on a low brick wall. There seemed to be an element missing, some part of the universe that was so common and natural that it had never drawn my attention. And now I felt its absence. It was all so wrong. Children are not supposed to die before their parents. It isn’t natural. Maybe nothing is. There are no rules, not even rules of nature.

    I’m so sorry for your loss. So very, very sorry. I send care and concern and sorrow for you and your struggling family. Be as well as you can be.

  29. 529
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    carlie
    I’m sorry to hear about your son’s friend

    +++
    Thanks everybody for the support. So far the daycare-teachers seem to react adequately which is almost more than I’d been hoping for.

    +++
    So, Mr. and me decided it was time that we had a break and went to the thermal bath today.
    Good idea. I love it there. Warm baths, different saunas, surprisingly good food…

  30. 530
    Crudely Wrott

    Carlie, I am not angry. Right now I cannot imagine being angry. I don’t want to be angry. Diane wouldn’t like it if I was. Her departure was graceful, dignified and tidy. As she lived her life. Right now I am only sad. Right now I need not imagining sadness.

    When young I considered the extent of emotion. Then I thought I knew. Then I was young and, for my youth, I forgive myself. Then I did not really know. Now I am uncertain if I know any better. The next days will inform me and I welcome as well as fear their instruction.

    Ravel’s Pavane lead, unsurprisingly, to his Bolero. A central theme, like a single life, repeated, reinforced, declared, celebrated. Intensified. Made so very clear. The repetitions that can lull our senses shout! Hear! Listen!

    Oh, my baby . . .

  31. 531
    carlie

    Crudely – She was well loved, as you are loved. Every time you have written about your family, no matter what was happening, the love flowed from every sentence and wrapped around it all. So much love.

  32. 532
    rq

    This is not Ravel, but it seemed appropriate.
    I am good night, and thinking of you, Crudely. *many hugs* So much love for you.

  33. 533
    WMDKitty -- Survivor

    Crudely

    *headbonks & purrs*

    I has a sad with you.

  34. 534
    Crudely Wrott

    WMDKitty, I does so like *headbonks*.
    When I haz kidduns I make it a big deal to bump heads. They likes it too. It’s how they do what they do.

    Thank you for your expression of care. Moar sustenance. Need met. Hole filled. Partially yet needfully.

    Now would be a good time to get kiddun nunnunnunnun. For the love. For the familiarity. For the holding.

    ‘Anks again.
    *bumps heads and smiles*

  35. 535
    ledasmom

    Crudely Wrott, very sorry for your loss. All my sympathy to you.

  36. 536
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    https://www.change.org/petitions/chuck-e-cheese-make-your-locations-fun-for-all-and-comply-with-the-american-with-disabilities-act

    Ok, I keep getting kicked offline each time I try to copy/paste from the above site. The young girl has Lupus and was with her father at the restaurant as one of her first outings after her recent release from the hospital. As she has special needs, and the mens restroom was full, the father wanted to use the womens, which was empty. He was denied by management, treated horribly, and after an internal investigation, management was found to have acted appropriately.

    WTF??!!

  37. 537
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    WMDKitty #494
    Probably a UTI, but it could also be something wrong in the kidneys. I strongly recommend you see a doctor if feasible.

  38. 538
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    I’m so sorry, Crudely Wrott. I’m sure she knew how much she was loved. May the memory of that love give you comfort.

    Would you mind terribly if I asked what happened?

  39. 539
    Anne, Old Gumbie Cat

    Crudely, I am very sorry for your loss. My thoughts are with you and your loved ones. *offers hugs*

  40. 540
    dontpanic

    Crudely let me add my voice to those grieving for your loss. When my meeting finally gets out I’ll go home an hug my son and wife. I can’t fully express my sorrow.

  41. 541
    chigau (違う)

    Crudely Wrott
    Many many many hugs for you and your family.

  42. 542
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Crudely:
    I am so sorry for your loss.
    All my sympathies to you and your family.

  43. 543
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Tethys:
    That poem was…wow…(..::dries eyes, or tries to::…).
    It was powerful.

  44. 544
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    Crudely , I’m so very sorry. Your loss is one I can imagine in gut clenching, teary eyed detail. My six year old daughter gives me a “cuddle and kiss packet” every morning before she goes to school to sustain me though my day. I offer to you all the hugs and the biggest C&K packet I have in my stores.

    Please understand that I claiming the following as any kind of panacea. It ‘s merely what I did, and do come to that, about my grief.

    I’m an atheist. I don’t believe that the people I love will be waiting for me when I die. Notice the tense there, it’s love, not loved. I still love my mother even though she’s no longer here to receive it. I grieve for her loss, how could I not? But it helps me to remember that grief is love transformed by absence. It might be changed, it might be difficult, but it is in the end still love.

    So what do I do about my grief? I recognise that the love from which it springs is not unique. Not to me, not to my mother, not to anyone. We are surrounded by a web of emotional attachment, unseen but real none the less. It’s not a mystical force, or some perversion of the word ‘god’, it’s simply the way humans connect with each other. So to assuage my grief I do my level best to help those around me, friends and strangers alike, to love unimpeded.

    This means the whole gamut of possible actions. I vote based on those I think will do the best job allowing people the ease and comfort to let the love in their lives bloom. I give to charities that reduce the suffering in the world. I do my best to be charitable to those I meet who are struggling enough that they take their pain out on me. I never, ever walk past a standard I don’t accept. And I make sure that those closest to me are reminded so often about how I feel about them that it becomes a little annoying.

    In this way I take the grief of loss and strip it back to the love it came from. In this way I sustain, grow and spread out to the world my love for my mother and all the others who are no longer here.

    It’s no magic cure. But it’s enough.

  45. 545
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    fucking html

    For a little smile, please imagine me giving a paraphrase of the above to a room full of religious people. It’s pretty much what I said at my mum’s funeral. Mind you, they took it really well. My mother’s church is one of those new-agey Anglican ones that bless same sex marriages and have Christian meditation sessions rather than prayer. My pentecostal brother on the other hand….

  46. 546
    Nutmeg

    Crudely, I am so sorry. *hugs*

  47. 547
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    Oh for fuck’s sake. That line should read “Please understand I’m not claiming…”

  48. 548
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Well. No one can claim that I haven’t tried to navigate the health insurance exchange website.

    I was able to make an account fine. But in the bit where it asks about my current coverage, I hit a roadblock when it said that my policy didn’t exist.

    …I got nothing. No idea.

  49. 549
    thunk: turmite city

    Crudely:

    I’m sorry. I’m so so sorry.

    Tony:

    Yeah, that’s serious bullshit by that place. Why are people such dipshits because of “ZOMG Gender Binary!”? ugh.

  50. 550
    cicely

    Ha! It appears I was using the wrong glue on my jellyfish!
    Now the Experiment can proceed.
    -
    thunk:

    Me too, except we were starting to debate whether it actually was a Salad Bowl instead.

    Better yet, a bowl of mixed nuts.
    -
    WMDKitty:

    What the hell is happening to my bladder?

    I do not know, but it doesn’t sound good…or even neutral.
    -
    Crudely…Oh, no.
    I am so sorry.
    I know it ain’t much, and it ain’t filling, and it ain’t enough, but
    *large, extended hug with rocking*
    -

  51. 551
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    cicely:

    It appears I was using the wrong glue on my jellyfish!

    There are some sentences that appear on Pharyngula that are, shall we say, strange?

  52. 552
    cicely

    A “Luxury Bishop” in Germany spent 31 million euros ($42 million) on his personal digs. Catholic version of austerity?

    A true Prince of the Church.
    -

  53. 553
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    cicely:

    It appears I was using the wrong glue on my jellyfish!

    Ogvorbis:

    There are some sentences that appear on Pharyngula that are, shall we say, strange?

    Nope. I won’t say it. I will say there are some sentences on Pharyngula that are made of *awesome*!

  54. 554
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    And in a pathetic attempt to keep up with cicely:

    I now have to go put a 3/4 turn on all the nipples.

  55. 555
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    FossilFishy:

    Turnwise or Widdershins?

  56. 556
    cicely

    Ogvorbis:
    Möbiusly?
    -

  57. 557
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    cicely, that is really twisted.

  58. 558
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    Ha! Turnwise. I’m shocked, shocked I say, that you’d think I’d do something satanic…. er, wait…

    95 kgf here I come!

  59. 559
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    Someone needs to take charge before this spirals out of control.

  60. 560
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Someone needs to take charge before this spirals out of control.

    Too late. Over on the cookies thread, it already is out of control.

  61. 561
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    Goddamit, and now I’m interpolating, will the horror never end?

  62. 562
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Goddamit, and now I’m interpolating, will the horror never end?,/blockquote>

    Graphics?

  63. 563
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    Tension balancing the spokes on a bicycle wheel. My spoke tension meter doesn’t give absolute values, just reference numbers that need to be looked up on a chart. It’s without fine gradations so I have to interpolate to get a more precise reading. /killing the mystery

  64. 564
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Upstairs neighbor is fucking loudly.

    Go her, I guess.

  65. 565
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    Lucky Loudly?

  66. 566
    morgan ?! epitheting a metaphor

    FossilFishy,

    Do you interpolate in public?

  67. 567
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    Only on Sundays. Besides, despite being a shop this is still private property. >->

  68. 568
    Jackie

    Crudely,
    I’m so sorry. I will hold you in my thoughts tonight. I wish I could wrap you in love and comfort and take away the ache in your heart. I hope you and yours can find some peace and ease in each other’s company.

    Tethys,
    Thank you for sharing that poem. It’s lovely.

  69. 569
    kittehserf

    Crudely Wrott, I am so, so sorry.

    All the hugs, if you want them.

  70. 570
  71. 571
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    A “Luxury Bishop” in Germany spent 31 million euros ($42 million) on his personal digs. Catholic version of austerity?

    Yep, and catholics are leaving, which shows the true motivation of some people: child abuse? covering up rape? Oh wellllll. But money? Bastards!
    But OTOH, the guy’s been in the vatican for more than a week now and while the pope’s talking to everybody and their dog about him, he refuses to talk with him, which is one hell of shitty and inhumane treatment in and on itself. If your employee is accused of serious wrongdoing it’s your duty as his immediate superior to listen to them.

  72. 572
    rq

    Coming in this morning (now early afternoon) with some cute-and-funny.

    Cat gifs, because cats, and the captions are awesome.

    Flying squirrels of the genus pteromys and I’m putting a CUTE warning on this one… *eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee*

    Students making use of their artistic talents in the best possible way – defacing textbooks.

    Then there’s the mowgli girl whose parents are photographers, and I look at some of the (fantastic and cute) photos and I wonder what the hell they were thinking. Wild animals, hel-lo…

    For the more serious-minded, here’s a rather sensationalized look at some New Discoveries that will change all previous theories about human evolution and overturn all currently solidly accepted knowledge and you get the idea… It’s a neat discovery, but it’s presented with slightly too much excitement. I mean, from what I understand, there’s no real consensus or certainty in the field at all. Well, maybe a little bit… (I especially love the last paragraph: “We need more complete skeletons! We need more fossils! MORE!!!”)

  73. 573
    rq

    For the classical-musically inclined, and Titanic aficionados: the most expensive (and possibly emotionally charged) piece of Titanic memorabilia.

  74. 574
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Oh, should I mention btw that while I’m solely responsible for my mother drinking again (I have a letter that says so, must be true then) my father is mashing up aples to make schnaps?

  75. 575
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Oh, should I mention btw that while I’m solely responsible for my mother drinking again (I have a letter that says so, must be true then) my father is mashing up aples to make schnaps?

    *facepalm*

    I’m really sorry you are being treated in such a horrible way by your family. *hugs*

  76. 576
    blf

    My condolences to Crudely Wrott.

    I myself have had two incidents where very close family members have, completely unexpectedly, died. It is emotionally painful and distressing at the time but the planet does keep on orbiting…

  77. 577
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Crudely:

    All my love and sympathy, I can’t imagine what you’re going through. I’m glad that you and your family have each other. You also have us. I wish I could hold you and give you a big squeeze, but here’s all the e-hugs I have.

  78. 578
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Giliell –

    I’m really sorry your parents put so much on you, *hugs*: (

  79. 579
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Thanks, Portia and beatrice
    You know, I think about them less and less as “my parents” and more and more as “people who made and raised me once”

  80. 580
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Giliell

    Which is totally understandable but also one of those wistful realizations. Or at least, it has been for me with other family relationships…and for a brief time with my own dad. I get that feeling, a little.

  81. 581
    rq

    Giliell
    Wow, sorry your family is being so obtuse. :(

    Hello, Portia! :)

  82. 582
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Hello there rq :)

  83. 583
    rq

    Allayou Sydney-ites down in Australia, and allayou in the area, hope you’re safe!!!

  84. 584
    blf

    Good news, of a sort. Montenegro police clash with extremists at gay pride march:

    Police in Podgorica fire teargas to repel anti-gay extremists who threw stones and firebombs in attempt to disrupt march

    Police in Montenegro fired teargas to repel anti-gay extremists who threw stones and firebombs at officers protecting a gay pride march on Sunday.

    The violence occurred when the attackers tried to break through police lines to reach those taking part in the march in Podgorica. After the march, the gay rights demonstrators were evacuated to a safe location in police vehicles.

    Police said about 20 of the injured during the clashes were officers, and the remaining 40 were from “hooligan groups”.

    Such marches are seen as a test of Montenegro’s commitment to human rights as it seeks to join the EU. Opponents attacked a similar march in July in the coastal town of Budva.

    In no way shape or form do I approve of violence, but (based only on the above brief report), the police’s hand might have been forced and their actions appropriate. Even if it was a completely botched policing operation, and/or driven by political considerations, allowing the march to go ahead in the first place is good news, as is the ultimately effective protection provided.

    Now for the “hooligans” to have a fair and open trial.

  85. 585
    opposablethumbs

    Giliell. Ugh. I have some fucked-up relatives all right, but nothing like this – have not been put through the wringer like this. I’m so sorry.

    Greetings to Portia and rq and all the excellent Horders.

  86. 586
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Anyone who’s watched Haven:

    That episode where they’re all on an island in a creepy hotel… That tricycle was totally homage to The Shining.
    And I’m not sure whether that ax Duke wielded around was a coincidence.

    I’m right, right?

  87. 587
    blf

    I know nothing of this Haven of which you speak, but “bicycle” (in conjunction with TV or movies) always brings to my mind (1) The Prisoner, and then (2) Breaking Away.

  88. 588
    Pteryxx

    More details on the Montenegro Pride march:

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/lesterfeder/first-pride-march-in-montenegros-capital-ends-with-tear-gas

    Around a dozen people carrying Molotov cocktails were reportedly arrested before the march began. Top Montenegrin officials had given their support to the rally, which comes as the Balkan nation seeks membership in the European Union.

    Interior Minister Rasko Konjevic had promised to deploy 2,000 police, who cordoned off several blocks in the city center, creating a two-block buffer zone on all sides of the march route. Police in full riot gear outnumbered marchers by at least ten to one.

    Marchers passed peacefully through the empty zone, wearing T-shirts with the slogan “Proudly Montenegro” over a picture of a giant handle-bar mustache.

    “In Montenegrin tradition, the mustache means you are proud and that you are a ‘real man,’” said Danijel Kalezić, president of the group organizing the march, Queer Montenegro. “That is why we thought it was important to use.”

    As the march began, an explosion sounded in the distance — the first hint of the chaos unfolding outside. As government officials and foreign dignitaries addressed the LGBT rights activists, groups of dozens of young men were throwing stones at police and trying to breach the security perimeter. According to one police officer at the scene, police had requested permission to use their firearms to subdue the counter-protestors, but they ultimately regained control of the city streets with the use of teargas, riot shields, and billy clubs. Twenty officers were reported injured.

    [...]

    “In Boudva, the message was … this is the Montenegro which does not support LGBT people,” said Ljiljiana Reicević, a march participant who also attended the Boudva pride march. “But Podgorica is totally different. It proves that the government is stating, ‘No, We will not allow this [violence], we will stop this, and we will protect you.’”

  89. 589
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    blf,

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haven_%28TV_series%29

    And now I learn that Heaven is “…loosely based on the Stephen King novel The Colorado Kid.”
    So that’s probably a yes to my question in #586, even though the article mentions reference to Misery from the same episode I was mentioning, but not the reference to The Shining.

  90. 590
    David Marjanović

    *pouncehug for Crudely Wrott*
    *bonks head*
    *curls up*

    Say, whereabouts in meatspace are you? Alternatively, are you coming to Skepticon?

    David
    Remind me to transcribe for you when I get home.

    :-)

    A “Luxury Bishop” in Germany spent 31 million euros ($42 million) on his personal digs.

    Allegedly the ever-rising costs of his residence have hit 40 million €.

    I haven’t found an English version of this Spiegel article; maybe they’ll make one. It goes into some detail about how Catholic dioeceses in Germany routinely stay silent about millions of € and even have slush funds. In two of them, their own finance managers have no idea what all the stocks and real estate and whatever might be worth; the finance manager of the archdioecese of Cologne says “it would be crazy to estimate”. The other one of those two, the archdioecese of Munich & Freising, has declared it’ll take 3 to 4 years to figure out how much wealth they’re hoarding, because they’re still on what seems to be eighteenth-century bookkeeping.

    One thing is clear: the Catholic Church in Germany is really, really rich. Each dioecese disposes of tens to hundreds of millions of €. A free-standing bathtub for 15,000 € is entirely affordable.

    Oh, Lynna. There’s worse than that!

    I want to ragepuke.

    I don’t think it should be a regular read for students of science

    It isn’t.

    My six year old daughter gives me a “cuddle and kiss packet” every morning before she goes to school to sustain me though my day.

    ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥

    Tell her that. Tell her that random people on the Internet think it’s deeply awesome that she does that.

    Yep, and catholics are leaving, which shows the true motivation of some people: child abuse? covering up rape? Oh wellllll. But money? Bastards!

    Yyyyyyyeeeeeeah.

    Then there’s the mowgli girl whose parents are photographers, and I look at some of the (fantastic and cute) photos and I wonder what the hell they were thinking. Wild animals, hel-lo…

    What I don’t understand is why it works. Befriending an elephant herd, OK. Playing moving obstacle for a snake that looks like it could kill as many people as Django if it tried (even though not quite at that speed), OK. Befriending a cheetah kitten your own size when the mother is conveniently outside the picture, why actually not. Casually hanging out with a largely grown leopard? ~:-| It doesn’t look photoshopped…

    (So much love for comment 572!)

    For the more serious-minded, here’s a rather sensationalized look at some New Discoveries that will change all previous theories about human evolution and overturn all currently solidly accepted knowledge and you get the idea… It’s a neat discovery, but it’s presented with slightly too much excitement. I mean, from what I understand, there’s no real consensus or certainty in the field at all. Well, maybe a little bit… (I especially love the last paragraph: “We need more complete skeletons! We need more fossils! MORE!!!”)

    Now I’m really disappointed that that’s not an actual quote. :-(

    The article ends in:

    “• This article was amended on 18 October 2013. An earlier version incorrectly located Georgia in central Asia.”

    Oh, Garundia. :-)

    *facepalm*

    I’m really sorry you are being treated in such a horrible way by your family. *hugs*

    …Seconded. :-(

  91. 591
    David Marjanović

    Uh. Forgot to dump ALL THE LINKS.

    The heritability of intelligence: not what you think. Or what I think. Or what the post’s author thinks, judging from comments 17 & 18. ~:-| It’s all very confusing.

    Native Americans Declare War on Fracking. Canada Declares War on Native Americans. “Oakland, Cairo, Athens, Brazil, Istanbul. All scenes of significant clashes with police these last years. Today, add to that list Rexton, New Brunswick, Canada.” Somebody is reeeeeally afraid of the Mi’kmaq.

    From 2009: “We have two dominant political parties. Each of those parties is built upon two of the four primary waves of migration from Britain that defined America in its earliest years. Historian David Hackett Fischer, in his book Albion’s Seed: Four British Folkways in America, identifies these waves as:

    Puritans, who settled in New England;
    Cavaliers, who settled in Virginia;
    Quakers, who settled in the Delaware River Valley; and
    Borderers, who settled in the ‘backcountry,’ as Appalachia and the Highland South were termed back then.”

    Goes on to explain the idea that the Republican Party used to be based on Cavalier and Borderer culture and has now become almost identical with the Borderers. I’m not sure how the Puritans became Democrats, though.

    Tea Partyers’ grave fear: Why they disdain young people — even their own!” Shortened interview with a sociologist.

    Idaho tea party candidate wants government out of health care, has 10 kids on Medicaid – and convolutedly denies being a hypocrite.

  92. 592
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    I’ve barely been home in weeks, or at least it feels that way. I’ve never been a full time salaried employee before (whine whine poor me, right?), so it’s an adjustment. Part of that adjustment is me laying in bed til 2pm watching Parks and Recreation when I get the chance.

    Laundry later.

    I miss you all.

  93. 593
    blf

    And now I learn that Heaven is “…loosely based on the Stephen King novel…”

    Do the Magical Sky Faeries pay royalties? Is Valhalla also included?
    And who owns the rights to Hades?

    (It certainly explains why the concept is so stoopid.)

  94. 594
    Jackie

    Giliell,
    I’m sorry you’re being blamed for other people’s choices. I had a toxic relationship with my family of origin. I was often blamed for ridiculous things too, like my brother’s alcoholism. I wish them the best, but I haven’t gone near them in years and I’m much happier that way. I expected that since I was the cause of every problem they had, their lives would miraculously improve when I went away. Oddly enough, no such thing happened. On the other hand, my life improved quite a bit. I had no idea exactly how much energy I was putting into maintaining a relationship with people I did not enjoy and who did not enjoy me. I had no idea how much undermining and and emotional manipulation was going on until it was gone. Whether they are related to you or not, some people are like clouds. When they go away, it’s a beautiful day.

  95. 595
    rq

    David
    Haha, I was actually creatively paraphrasing this bit:

    “What all this screams out for is more and better specimens. We need skeletons, more complete material, so we can look at them from head to toe,”

    :D
    And I found the book and the poem (it’s actually a series on the Prussian Extinction – sort of a poetic look at history, with the ten commandments in Old Prussian serving as ‘chapter’ titles). But I left the book in the bedroom, where Husband is currently putting Youngest to sleep, and my presence, alas, would not be welcome in this situation. So you will have to wait a bit longer. :) But the poetry bits I remembered are actually the quotes of the ten commandments from Martin Luther’s catechism, translated in German and Prussian. So I’ll transcribe those for you, and explain which parts I could understand and which ones – not so much. ;)

  96. 596
    David Marjanović

    Tom the Dancing Bug: The Obamolitionists continue the fight… Great cartoon.

    When you have lost Rush Limbaugh it makes one wonder. Rush Limbaugh said, “I was trying to think earlier today, if ever in my life I could remember any political, any major political party being so irrelevant. I’ve never seen it. … What they’ve ended up doing is creating one of the greatest political disasters I have ever seen in my lifetime.” Links to China’s official news agency calling for a deamericanized world.

    Petition to Obama “to stop legitimizing a policy that forces ICE to indiscriminately imprison undocument immigrants. The ‘bed mandate’, or immigrant imprisonment quota, forces ICE to keep at least 34,000 immigrants in its detention centers every day.” O_o

    And finally: System Failure: US Democracy Is Nearing its Limits. “The United States has temporarily avoided federal default. As the Republicans lick their wounds, the Democrats are triumphant. But no one should be happy, because the debacle has exposed just how broken the American political system truly is.”

    From 2009:

    Contains the terrifying sentence You’re supposed to watch Fox News! heard at a town hall meeting when someone mentioned hearing something from the local news.

  97. 597
    Jackie

    Update on my friend:
    She’s doing well in the shelter. She’s getting help and being very brave. Her online friends are helping to keep her spirits up and one has even sent her a new phone. She just fell asleep on the couch with a dog and my kids sitting around her. Hubby made us all breakfast this morning and I took her to meet the horses. As we left another volunteer gave us a box of dry goods for her to take back with her and another texted me to ask what size coat she wore. She’s going to buy her one. The kids and I made butter from cream last night and we’re baking today. She was going to help, but she’s tuckered out. She has a long road ahead of her, but she found a church she likes and she’s writing again like she used to. Maybe it’s all the sunshine and cool breezes, but I feel very hopeful that she’ll be on her feet again one day. :)

  98. 598
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Hah, heaven actually does sound like something King would come up with.
    Getting stuck forever in a creepy yet strangely boring place, playing games for the amusement of a sick bastard, where getting evicted into a burning pit would actually seem like fun times… Sounds like something right up his alley.

  99. 599
    David Marjanović

    But I left the book in the bedroom, where Husband is currently putting Youngest to sleep, and my presence, alas, would not be welcome in this situation. So you will have to wait a bit longer. :)

    :-)

    So I’ll transcribe those for you, and explain which parts I could understand and which ones – not so much. ;)

    :-) :-)

  100. 600
    rq

    Jackie
    Wasn’t here for the start of your story, but that sounds like wonderful progress. And so encouraging, to hear of so many amazingly helpful people – including you!!! – willing to do so much for someone in need. And you earn double amaze-points from me today – butter from cream? And horses?? *jealous* :) You are fantastic. And more good luck to your friend, from me – may the road upwards continue.

  101. 601
    rq

    Libraries in unexpected places! I’m especially impressed by the item titled with “On Horseback”. And “On a Donkey”, come to think of it. (Biblioburro. Tee hee.)

    Speaking of languages, make animal noises in different ones! I was sad – no cows in that article.

  102. 602
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    rq,

    But what does the fox say?
    sadly, that no one knows

  103. 603
    Jackie

    On a less happy note, my eldest just got to experience abstinence only, sex shaming education in a KY public school. She was furious. Apparently, it hasn’t changed much since I was a kid. Lots of warnings about how sex outside of marriage ruins relationships, causes disease and how wonderful it is to keep your rapist’s baby instead of getting an abortion. They also included warnings for the girls, I’m sure you know what kind, about not getting raped. At one point it was suggested that girls shouldn’t want anything to do with a boy who had been “exposed” to pornography. As these kids grew up with the internet, I’m surprised they didn’t laugh the team of abstinence educators (read as: fundies in the classroom.) right out the door.They talked alot about reclaiming virginity and how important virginity is (*BARF*) but said nothing at all about vaccines, condoms or other means of preventing unwanted pregnancies and STDs. Consent was never even mentioned. She filled out a very leading survey at the end and filled the comment section with complaints. They did a class exercise where the students were told to go to different sides of the room if they believed one of two stupid things about virginity. She refused to leave her seat, as did three other students. When she came home she told me I might be getting a phone call from the school soon. As she said it with a smile, I think she knows very well what her father and I will have to say to her teacher.

    Meanwhile, her grades are still very good.

    On top of that, her friends are trying to start a Gay Straight Alliance, but the posters keep getting torn down. So, we gave her an entire box of packing tape and told her to do it the Chicago way. They tear one of yours down, you put up 10 more and you laminate them to the wall with tape.

    We’ll see how this goes. How she handles this situation is entirely up to her, but babygrrl is angry and I don’t think they’ll like her when she’s angry.

  104. 604
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    So, we gave her an entire box of packing tape and told her to do it the Chicago way. They tear one of yours down, you put up 10 more and you laminate them to the wall with tape.

    I love that, especially that name of the method.

    We’ll see how this goes. How she handles this situation is entirely up to her, but babygrrl is angry and I don’t think they’ll like her when she’s angry.

    On the other hand, from you’ve said, I love her when she’s angry. What an awesome person you’re raising. Her courage is inspiring. Sticking out is hard, and standing up for your principles ain’t easy. Good for her.

  105. 605
    rq

    Beatrice
    Ah, but they do! (Be sure to check out the “For Reference” link at the bottom…)

    And whoever recommended Gunnerkrigg Court in the first place, you owe me several hours of my life as well as a cure for that next-page,-already!!! feeling I get every day there isn’t a next page. Thanks. Thanks a lot.

  106. 606
    rq

    Jackie
    You are an inspiration. ♥
    And your daughter is, too.

  107. 607
    Jackie

    Thanks rq. That’s very nice of you to say. It is a beautiful day. I’m lucky to know some wonderful people.

  108. 608
    Jackie

    rq,
    She’s a sweet kid, but sharp as a tack and a force to be reckoned with when she wants to be.

  109. 609
    blf

    Jackie, Good for yer eldest! Go, Ms KittehLioness, and chew on a few fundies and fools…

    And seems like good news for you friend.

  110. 610
    Jackie

    Thanks Portia. I’m pretty fond of her too.

  111. 611
    carlie

    Part of that adjustment is me laying in bed til 2pm watching Parks and Recreation when I get the chance.

    I saw a brown miniature horse with a cream mane today, and the first thing that popped out of my mouth was “It’s a Li’l Sebastian!”

  112. 612
    David Marjanović

    God’s Own Party can’t be blamed on the South. Not historically speaking anyway.

    Best quote (far down, after several very different points have been made):

    But the problem runs deeper than the mere mechanics of elections. When voters do bother to vote, even on the rare occasions their vote matters, the results are rendered opaque and irrelevant – a proliferation of veto points, a miasma of dispersed authority – by a constitutional structure meticulously designed to suppress any visible connection between the casting of a ballot and the enactment of a program.

    However disastrous or ridiculous the outcome of this crisis ultimately proves to be, the sub-democratic structure of American politics will guarantee that the consequences will be non-existent for those who initiated it: the regime of repressed competition will ensure no consequences for the individual legislators, while its separation of powers will probably ensure no consequences for their party either.

    In the last debt ceiling crisis, two years ago, the public expressed overwhelming revulsion and blamed the GOP by a wide margin; the next year, Republicans won the House again, and ended up with three-fifths of the governors and state legislatures. Most likely the same or worse will happen again in 2014.

    After two centuries laboring under a Constitution crafted by principled opponents of democracy, who saw as one of their central goals the suppression of any chance that concerted majorities might ever use the state for positive ends, how can anyone be surprised that this country is hospitable to anti-government extremists?

  113. 613
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    carlie:

    “What does he do?”
    “He does being a miniature horse, and he does it better than anyone.”

    Sidenote, it seems like there is no tv show that one of us likes and not the other. :D

  114. 614
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Thankyou all, again

    Jackie
    Yay for friend
    Boooh for Abstinenceshmapstinence
    Yay for daughter

    I’m fully planning to give the girls a copy of “our bodies-ourselves”, a good vibrator and a tube of lube when they hit puberty and an “upgrade” including condoms and Plan B some time later. I will emphatically not have The Talk™ with them. We will have many little talks as we already had and are expanding as they grow older.

  115. 615
    carlie

    Oh god. There’s a tweet that is Richard Dawkins retweeting a tweet by Michael Shermer urging everyone to support Sara Mayhew’s kickstarter. Talk about a trifecta of crap.

  116. 616
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    Hi Portia! *pouncehugs*

  117. 617
    Lynna, OM

    Kayne West and Jesus, on stage together in Seattle. Rolling Stone link.

    The capper ultimately was the guest appearance by none other than Jesus Christ himself, for whom West finally removed his mask to proclaim that he had been looking for him. Jesus naturally responded that he had been there all along. Later, the mock Christ would ascend to the top of the mountain as West bowed in supplication before him while the haunting refrain from “On Sight” – “You give us what we need/it may not be what we want” – played repeatedly in the background.

    Oh, and there were groups of women wearing nothing but sheer body stockings. No word on whether Jesus liked that or not.

  118. 618
    Jackie

    Carlie,
    Birds of a feather, those three. My opinion of Dawkins just reached an all time low.

  119. 619
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Hi Dalillama :D

  120. 620
    Jackie

    We’re full of pumpkin bread and I just found out that my friend has never been to a dog park. So, we’re off to the park!
    Have a cozy Sunday, Hordlings.
    *hugs*

  121. 621
    David Marjanović

    Huh. “Great appendage” arthropods are chelicerates after all. Surprises me. …as does the technique used to investigate the fossils.

    They did a class exercise where the students were told to go to different sides of the room if they believed one of two stupid things about virginity.

    WTF. One word: Privacy!

    Your daughter is right not to tolerate this. *clenched-tentacle salute*

  122. 622
    Pteryxx

    Oh, Crudely. *adding to the pile of hugs and poetry*

    While you’re at it, hold one another. Take a moment to tell someone that you love them and that their life gives meaning to yours. That their life decorates and celebrates yours. Don’t let the moment pass. Just . . . love one another.
    ‘Anks.
    Love,
    Crudely

    So I found some Pablo Neruda in your honor. This is for someone else:

    If You Forget Me

    and this, in good time, is for you.

    Ode to Sadness

  123. 623
    carlie

    Portia – if I lived near you, I’d probably follow you around like a puppy because you’re so awesome. “Portia said this. Portia likes that too. Did I tell you what Portia did today?” :)

  124. 624
    Sili

    602.
    Beatrice

    But what does the fox say?
    sadly, that no one knows

    Lies!

  125. 625
    blf

    Given a choice between groupies who follow you around, and a penguin who doesn’t bother with existing doorways, I’ll take the forty-foot killer rats for three, please.

  126. 626
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    carlie:

    You make me laugh! The feeling is very mutual wrt to your awesomeness.

  127. 627
    carlie

    I usually feel like Chester to everyone’s Spike.

  128. 628
    opposablethumbs

    Jackie, my respects and admiration to your daughter and to you.

  129. 629
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    I feel cooler when you say you like a show I like ^_^ (This Lovefest is just so Very Lounge™) :D

    Dalillama! I neglected to pouncehug you back.

    POUNCE.

  130. 630
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Jackie @603:
    I was feeling bummed out until I read your comment, which was 100% awesomesauce.
    Kudos to your eldest (and I hear her parents are pretty amazing too).

  131. 631
    blf

    Chester to everyone’s Spike

    Oh my eyes! Please, please, someone explain to the author of that site the importance of contrast. Black-text on a medium-ish blue background does not have enough to be useful. You cannot fecking read it.

  132. 632
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    Jackie

    Good on your daughter, and good on you for supporting her.

    I’ve put up more than my fair share of posters in my life. If the packing tape fails to work there’s a full nuclear option to go to: condensed milk. Put it in a spray bottle, soak the target, apply the poster and if it dries before anyone attempts to remove it they’re going to need a paint scraper and a lot of time to get it off. I’ve seen ones done this way last for years outdoors. Mind you, I’ve also known folks who got charged with vandalism for doing it. Caution and plausible deniability is advised. Oh, and it can smell pretty bad for a while if done in a warm climate.

  133. 633
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    carlie:
    Is there room in the Portia Fan Club? Can I be secretary?

  134. 634
    Pteryxx

    FossilFishy: I’ve seen flyers like that and wondered how the heck; thank you! (Wouldn’t soaking them with water or water+soap get them off, in shreds?)

    A modest proposal against gerrymandering – Register with whatever party dominates your gerrymandered district, and use your vote to influence THEIR primary. (Caveat – in some states/regions, registering for one party means you’re not allowed to vote for ANY candidates of the other party in general elections. However IMHO <_< that might be a worthwhile sacrifice if it means influencing a vital primary.)

    Salon interview with Henry Louis Gates

    The Harvard professor of African and African-American studies is among the most public thinkers on the issue of race in the nation; his stature is only set to grow with the PBS series “Many Rivers to Cross,” which begins airing on Oct. 22. The six-part series considers the black experience in America from many angles, starting from the beginning of the North American slave trade.

    Gates intends the series to help teach race in what he considers to be an utterly ineffective school system; he’s quick to cite studies indicating that black history is not being taught well in schools. Indeed, in a conversation with Salon, Gates indicated that he believes certain states ought to mandate black history education in schools.

    But the real conversation Gates wants to be having is one about class. He spoke to Salon about the degree to which the end of legal segregation led to the splintering of the civil rights movement as well as to further inequities on a national level, and what the government needs to do to ensure a fair shot for all citizens.

  135. 635
    rq

    David

    *** WARNING: EXTREMELY long post to continue discussion (?) on Old Prussian to follow, please skip if not interested in Baltic languages or the musings of a not-even-amateur linguist who reads up on these things simply for being a speaker of a Baltic language group. ***

    Preamble: Due to the fact that the Old Prussian I have has probably been written in ‘original’ script, by which I mean German text – by which I mean, phonetically German spelling (originally in Gothic type), I’m going to write out the Old Prussian, then the Latvian. I was going to also write out the Latvian as it would have been written back then (i.e., phonetically German spelling) for a possibly clearer comparison, but it doesn’t seem to be too necessary (for a quick switch, sub w for v and for all vowels with a line over top, write the vowel+h, = ā = ah; sub ee for ie; sub sch for š; sub z for c). Also, because of the phonetic German spelling and due to Old Prussian’s inability to survive to a more modern spelling/the Latin alphabet, I’m not going to be an authority on the actual pronunciation of Old Prussian. Also, I forget what the actual original purpose of this whole comparison was, but it still seems fun and interesting so away we go!

    Title (in Prussian): SCRISITS/AULAUNS/BHE ENKOPTS
    Translation: Crucified, died, and was buried.
    Latvian: Krustāsists, miris un aprakts.
    * A note on the words ‘enkopts/aprakts’. The Latvian verb ‘kopt’ with various prefixes can mean, in certain cases, ‘to bury’, although usually it means to tidy up. A ‘kapu kopiņa’ is a grave, so there’s some relation there. The rest – would not have guessed. Onwards.

    Pr.: 1. STAS PIRMOIS PALLAIPS
    Tr.: 1. The first commandment
    Latv.: 1. Pirmais bauslis (alternatively, Tas pirmais bauslis)
    * There’s no obvious relation beyond the words ‘pirmois/pirmais’ and they’re obvious in and of themselves. ‘Tas’ in Latvian is the definite article (redundant here due to the ‘-ais’ ending on ‘pirmais’ but sometimes added for emphasis), also obvious (to me) relation to the seemingly definite article in Prussian ‘Stas’.

    Pr.: Tou niturri kittans Deiwans pagār mien turrītwei
    Tr.: The one about not having any other gods (yes, I don’t know my commandments in English…)
    Latv.: Tev nebūs citus dievus turēt līdzās manīm.
    * Things I could figure out: ‘tou/tev’, ‘kittans/citus’, ‘dievus/Deiwans’, ‘manīm/mien’; things that took longer to figure out: ‘līdzās’ vs. ‘pagār’ (here, I assume that ‘pagār’ has a relation to the Latvian words/roots for taller/longer/higher (garš/garāks/garām) and the prefix ‘pa-’, which can mean ‘more than’ or serve as an extendor (personal terminology), so in effect the ‘pagār’ to me signifies something ‘higher than’; the thing that took longest to figure out – the relationship between ‘niturri/turrītwei’ and the Latvian verb for holding – ‘turēt’, so in effect a form of ‘thou shall not hold any other gods higher than me’, where ‘niturri’ in current Latvian is changed to ‘nebūs’ (transl.: will not have, literally) because language structures aren’t identical, and I have a feeling that the idea of ‘not holding’ is equivalent to ‘not having’. This recurs in most other commandments.

    Pr.: 2. STAS ANTARS PALLAIPS
    Tr.: 2. The second commandment
    Latv.: 2. (Tas) Otrais bauslis
    * At first glance there is little relationship between ‘otrais/antars’, but keep in mind that a lot of the ‘uo’ sound in Latvian turns into ‘an’ sounds in Lithuanian (‘roka/ranka’, ‘kokle/kankle’), the relationship is a bit clearer.

    Pr.: Tou turri Stan Emnain twaisei Deiwas ni enbāndan westwei.
    Tr.: The one about not holding god’s name in vain.
    Latv.: Tev nebūs tava dieva vārdu nelietīgi velti valkāt.
    * Besides the words I have already mentioned, this one had me completely in the dark. I’m pretty sure ‘twaisei’ is ‘your’ (‘tavs’, in text – ‘tava’ (gen.)). ‘Stan Emnain’ I think is ‘the Lord’. The phrase doesn’t appear in the Latvian text, but considering the capitalizations it seems like a translation of the phrase ‘the Lord your God’. The ending (‘ni enbandān westwei’) is beyond my comprehension.

    Pr.: 3. STAS TĪRTS PALLAIPS
    Tr.: 3. The third commandment
    Latv.: 3. (Tas) Trešais bauslis
    * I think numbers are some of the easiest things to figure out in these languages and, for that matter, in most other Indo-European languages.

    Pr.: Tou turri Stan Lānkinan Deinan Swintint.
    Tr.: The one about keeping god’s holy day.
    Latv.: Tev būs svētu dienu svētīt.
    * See, the verb ‘turri’ repeats here (in commandment 1 it was the negation ‘niturri’), which makes me believe it was used as the language-equivalent of ‘būs’, the whole ‘to hold’ vs. ‘to have’ thing. ‘Stan’ is obviously (here, to me) a definite article again, ‘dienu/Deinan’ (= day, acc.) is obvious, and ‘svētīt/Swintint’ also is a logical connection, the capitalization due to the fact that it’s being honoured and made holy (a status thing). The word ‘Lānkinan’, however, besides probably having an accusative ending, has no obvious meaning to me. I might make distant connections to other vaguely similar words, but that would be a real stretch, so I won’t.

    Pr.: 4. STAS KETWIRTS PALLAIPS
    Tr.: 4. The fourth commandment
    Latv.: 4. (Tas) Ceturtais bauslis
    * Obvious.

    Pr.: Tou turri twaian Tāvan bhe Mūtien Smūnint kai tebbe Labban ēit bhe ilgi givassi nosemien.
    Tr.: Honour thy father and mother, etc., go well with you, days be long, etc.
    Latv.: Tev būs tavu tēvu un māti godāt, lai tev labi klājas un tu ilgi dzīvo virs zemes.
    * The relationship between ‘tavu tēvu un māti/twaian Tāvan bhe Mūtien’ was obvious, except for that conjunction ‘un/bhe’ (which for some reason seems oddly out of place). Sometimes, ‘and’ in Latvian is also written as ‘i’, which is far closer to the Russian form of ‘and’. This ‘bhe’ is completely different. The word ‘Smūnint’ is obviously ‘honour’, with capitalization again due to status, but there’s no related word in Latvian that I can think of. ‘kai tebe Labban ēit’ is close to the Latvian ‘ka tev labi iet’, and ‘ilgi givassi nosemien’, especially if some germanic pronunciation is taken into account (s is a z sound), also makes a lot of sense. The construction, however, is different, ‘virs zemes/nosemien’, where the Prussian (I presume) prefix ‘no-’ is not related to the Latvian prefix ‘no-’ (generally added to mean ‘from’ or ‘off of’ – nolekt no galda = jump off the table, different from lekt no galda = jump from the table, sort of a double emphasis). But the gist can be understood. [sidenote: The author actually has a different, rather vicious, heartrending, anti-religious poem based on the second half of this commandment, which I may or may not decide to translate unofficially here later on, if there is interest.]

    Pr.: 5. STAS PIĒNCTS PALLAIPS
    Tr.: 5. The fifth commandment
    Latv.: 5. (Tas) piektais bauslis
    * Besides not having any idea on how to pronounce “piēncts”, obvious enough.

    Pr.: Tou niturri gallintwei.
    Tr.: Thou shall not kill.
    Latv.: Tev nebūs nokaut.
    * Again with the ‘niturri’ vs. ‘nebūs’, as mentioned before. Alternative Latvian: Tev nebūs nogalināt. This one has a clearer relationship to the Prussian. And I suspect the ‘-wei’ ending is a infinitive verb ending, which makes me think a little more about commandment 3, with the ‘westwei’ verb, which may or may not have a relation to the Latvian verb ‘vest’, meaning ‘to carry, to take, to bring’.

    Pr.: 6. STAS VSCHTS PALLAIPS
    Tr.: 6. The sixth commandment
    Latv.: 6. (Tas) Sestais bauslis
    * Whoa, what the hell? Yeah. Numbers is numbers, but in this case, *whoosh*.

    Pr.: Tou niturri Sallūbanlimtwei.
    Tr.: The one about adultery
    Latv.: Tev nebūs laulību pārkāpt.
    * While I can now deduce that ‘Sallūbanlimtwei’ is a verb in the infinitive, it is a word foreign to me in all other respects.

    Pr.: 7. STAS SEPTMAS PALLAIPS
    Tr.: 7. The seventh commandment
    Latv.: 7. (Tas) Septītais bauslis
    * Ah, that’s better.

    Pr.: Tou niturri Rānctwei.
    Tr.: Thou shall not steal.
    Latv.: Tev nebūs zagt.
    * While Rānctwei =/= zagt in any way possible, I’m wondering if there’s some relation here to the Latvian word for hand ‘roka’ which may or may not have taken the ‘an’ sound in Prussina instead of the ‘uo’ sound found in Latvian, seeing as how stealing is closely tied to hands, and maybe there was an old verb based on the root for ‘hand’ that also meant to steal (like having free hands or something like that). [/guessing]

    Pr.: 8. STAS ASMUS PALLAIPS
    Tr.: 8. The eighth commandment
    Latv.: 8. (Tas) Astotais bauslis
    * Besides having a friend whose last name was Asmus (so, she was the eighth?), they lost me with the numbers again.

    Pr.: Tou niturri reddewijdikausnan dātwei prijki twaian tawischan.
    Tr.: The one about holding false witness.
    Latv.: Tev nebūs nepatiesu liecību dot pret savu tuvāku.
    * The word ‘reddewijdikausnan’ looks Dutch to me, I swear. I can’t riddle it out in Latvian at all. The verb ‘dot/dātwei’, however, and the phrase ‘pret savu tuvāku/prijki twaian tawischan’ can all be figured out.

    Pr.: 9. STAS NEWĪNTS PALLAIPS
    Tr.: 9. The ninth commandment
    Latv.: 9. (Tas) Devītais bauslis
    * Again, there seems to be more relation to the English than the Latvian, but the N/D exchange doesn’t seem at all strange.

    Pr.: Tou niturri Pallaipsītwei/twaisei tawischas butten.
    Tr.: You shall not covet your neighbour’s house.
    Latv.: Tev nebūs iekārot tava tuvākā namu.
    * This one confuses me a bit, because of the connection of ‘Pallaips (commandment)’ with ‘Pallaipsītwei (to covet?)’, which is why I think the whole ‘pallaips’ business has to do with ‘[something that] must be [done/had]‘, but that’s neither here nor there. Also, the word ‘butten’ has no (obvious) relation to any word for house in modern Latvian that I can think of (nams, māja, ēka, etc.). Maybe somewhere there’s a dialect that uses something vaguely similar, or maybe in Lithuanian, I really couldn’t say.

    Pr.: 10. STAS DESSĪMTS PALLAIPS
    Tr.: 10. The tenth commandment
    Latv.: 10. (Tas) Desmitais bauslis
    * Fewf, back to some congruency.

    Pr.: Tou niturri pallapsitwei twaise Tawischas Gannam/Waikan/Mērgan/Peckan/adder ka tennēison ast.
    Tr.: The one about coveting all your neighbour’s other possessions (incl. wife).
    Latv.: Tev nebūs iekārot tava tuvākā sievu, kalpu, kalponi, lopu vai citu mantu, kas tam pieder.
    * So here’s some different spelling for ‘pallapsitwei’, which might negate my previous musings about the word. Typo? Also no capitalization, which makes me think it may have been a bit random after all… As for the nice list of words for comparison, yeah, no. Couldn’t make it out at all, but again, there may be older / now-unused words for servant-male and servant-female, and wife, and beast, that may have been previously used. The only distant connection I might make is with ‘Peckan’ (beast?), there’s an old slangish Latvian word for feet, ‘pekas’, which may or may not be related to the fact that beasts have more legs than humans, and may be somehow referred to as ‘the legged ones’ (hey, people still call cows ‘the horned ones’ around here, along with all other animals with horns…).

    So there you have it! That is an epic post. Where all this is supposed to lead, I don’t know, but I hope it was at least marginally interesting to you!

  136. 636
    rq

    Can I get on the carlie-is-awesome bandwagon? I may not watch/like all the shows you talk about, but I feel like I express my admiration and appreciation for you a lot less than I should. Not because I don’t know what to say, but prefacing eveyrthing with ‘carlie, you rock!’ or randomly putting up comments saying ‘carlie is awesome!’ might get a bit weird and creepy after a while.
    I’m already a paying member of the Portia fanclub. Not sure why Tony wants in, though, he’s just going to get killed in Pictionary, again and again and again and again and…

  137. 637
    carlie

    The Portia fan club can be HUMONGOUS.

    In other news entirely, it seems to be impossible to find cafe doors that do not look like a saloon, unless one spends ungodly amounts of money. Seriously, the main version available for cheap has spindles at the top, and the other is entirely louvers. Wouldn’t a solid panel be even cheaper to make?!

  138. 638
    carlie

    Now I have to hide behind the couch. ;) Thanks, rq. You’re pretty fantastic too.

    That’s why I love it here, all the people are great. :)

  139. 639
    Tethys

    Carlie

    Talk about a trifecta of crap.

    I’m sure some brave heros will join them in their quest.
    The fembot intelligence agents recently intercepted this map of operations, and submitted it to femcentral amidst many barely suppressed guffaws.

    The Curve of Pursuit

    According to the report, it is not clear whether they will be crashing into each other in the center, or spiralling off into ignomity.

    More seriously, scroll down at my link to see several versions of the Curve of Pursuit, and click around the site. Math and knitting together produce some seriously wicked cool designs that Im sure could be executed in crochet.

  140. 640
    blf

    Wouldn’t a solid panel be even cheaper to make?!

    That seems a bit counterproductive as a door unless you only nail it along on one side. (Or, I suppose, along the top, like a cat-flap.) Or hide some cheese in the other room, wait (probably not for long) for a certain penguin, and can tolerate a penguin-shaped hole, not necessarily in yer new door.

  141. 641
    rq

    Tethys
    Wow, nice designs!!
    I know a math professor here who teaches the math behind quantum physics through crocheting. Apparently it’s a great way to visualize a lot of shapes and patterns and their changes and inversions, since you can pick up a piece of crocheting and play around with it by following the transformation in the formula.
    Or something. It was all pretty complicated, but it looked amazing. Your work / patterns / etc. remind me of that. Love it.

  142. 642
    rq

    And illusion knitting… *mind blown*

  143. 643
    Inaji

    Sunday Sing Along

    Oliver & Rubin

  144. 644
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    Yep, Pteryxx, that’s exactly how you get them off. If it’s fairly fresh rubbing the wetted paper with something like a pot scrubber get it mostly off. But if it’s fully cured it’s like the individual fibres of the paper are all glued down separately. Rubbing at it with an abrasive just takes off the top layer, then you have scrape off all the little bits left behind. I should point out that if done properly the poster is wet right through. If it didn’t absorb enough from the initial spray on the wall I’d give it a quick mist after attaching it. Er, that is, I would have if I’d ever engaged in such hooliganism…. >_>

  145. 645
    Tethys

    rq

    I know a math professor here who teaches the math behind quantum physics through crocheting.

    I would love to attend this class. I knew it can be used to model hyberbolic math concepts, and fractals, but quantum physics? *drool*

  146. 646
    Pteryxx

    Oliver & Rubin

    Oliver!!

    and Rubin looks so glossy for his age.

  147. 647
    rq

    Tethys
    I’ll see if I can find more info, but I doubt it will be in English. :(

  148. 648
    Tethys

    Ratties! and Hounds!

    Happy birthday to Rubin! Is that a notch in her ear?

  149. 649
    rq

    hahahaha Tethys I am laughing at myself, I have to apologize, I have just fed you very wrong information. I was thinking of the author of this book. So, no, no quantum physics. Sorry (but it would be awesome and drool-worthy).

    Oh geez, I guess it’s way late because my memory is coming up with the strangest things right now. :/ And I’m just going to embarrass myself even more as time goes on. Good night!

  150. 650
    Inaji

    Pteryxx:

    Oliver!!

    He’s a shy one.

    and Rubin looks so glossy for his age.

    She. Rubin is our surviving mama. She is a very fat and happy rat. She was slated as a feeder when we came across her, because of being odd-eyed.

    Tethys:

    Is that a notch in her ear?

    She’s always had that, don’t know if it’s natural or she was bitten at one point.

  151. 651
    Pteryxx

    oy, apologies to Rubin. >_<

    and that ear-notch might have been for marking at some point; say, to distinguish the feeders from the keepers, or some other local ID.

  152. 652
    Tethys

    rq

    Thanks, but please don’t go to the bother. I am sure that Latvian would be just as incomprehensible to me as the math and the only thing I would understand are the crochet diagrams. It is an excellent way to show how just one or two wrong stitches will profoundly alter the final geometry of any form.

    My pattern stash is always open however. The klein bottle and the lorentz manifold would be happy for more company in the higher math crochet folder.

  153. 653
    Inaji

    Pteryxx:

    and that ear-notch might have been for marking at some point; say, to distinguish the feeders from the keepers, or some other local ID.

    Yeah, could be. She was very young when we brought her home, 8 weeks.

  154. 654
    cicely

    Caracal kittehs!
    -
    Ogvorbis:

    cicely, that is really twisted.

    Ah, but is it Tiffany-twisted?
    -
    Tony:

    Dressing up as Pennywise the Clown: Cosplay or Creepy As Fuck?

    Yes.
    -
    The Husband is watching The History Channel. They’re doing Ancient Aliens, and he is providing snarky editorialization.
    -
    *hugs* for Giliell. Sorry your father is being such an asshole.
    -
    …which prompted memories of how, back in the day, I was, in my mother’s opinion, responsible for Youngest Brother’s ADHD.
     
    ‘Cause I didn’t drive corner-wise across OK to attend his weekendly soccer games, that’s why. And completely disregarding the carefree way it romps through our family tree, what with Not-As-Younger Brother’s ADD, and all of my male cousins on my father’s side….
     
    But just because it makes no damned sense doesn’t make it not hurtful.
    -
    Portia!
    *pouncehug*
    -
    David!
    *pouncehug, extra tentacles on the side*
    -

  155. 655
    Jackie

    Tony,
    She’s pretty groovy.

    I hear her parents are pretty amazing too.

    Lies! All lies!
    …I mean, thank you.

    Fossilfishy,
    Thanks. That’s an idea, but I don’t think the school would go for it.

    I think very highly of all of you too. I’m thrilled to the gills to get to know you.

  156. 656
    Nutmeg

    My group of close female friends, in a effort to see each other more often and mend some fences, has decided to start having a monthly knitting/crocheting/crafts night. I’m not feeling energetic enough to learn a new skill like knitting or crocheting right now, so I’ll be bringing my craft kit and making these dragon boat ornaments instead.

    My grandma taught my mom to make them, and my mom taught me. I do them every year as Christmas gifts for friends, but I never knew what they were called until last year.

    Looking forward to some crafting.

  157. 657
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Non-typical day here at Casa la pelirroja. Typical was me sleeping in to 7:30 am, and the Redhead much later, plus a couple of loads of laundry. What was non-typical, was the need to buy Halloween candy for 300-400 ghosties and ghoulies who will appear in the official Trick & Treat two hours next Sunday, on top of the normal weekend shopping. The Redhead will do the distribution duties, in-spite of the reluctance of some of the younger Ghosties/Ghoulies to approach her in a wheelchair. Funny how siblings/friends receiving treats melt the reluctance. Twere so easy with adults. It took three stores to get our normal mixture of candies that we usually hand out.

  158. 658
    cicely

    Jackie, I’m glad to hear that it’s going well for your friend.
     
    Your daughter sounds to be an intelligent and brave young lady. KY “sex education”, otoh, sounds to be…pretty much what I would expect.
    -
    Caine, how is Chester doing?
    -

  159. 659
    David Marjanović

    Who is Sara Mayhew again?

    Caveat – in some states/regions, registering for one party means you’re not allowed to vote for ANY candidates of the other party in general elections.

    What? The vote is secret. Are you talking about primaries or something?

    The Latvian verb ‘kopt’ with various prefixes can mean, in certain cases, ‘to bury’

    Fits Slavic, too, where kopat- means “dig”. However, Slavic o ought to correspond to Latvian short a, and Latvian ā and o should correspond to Slavic a… what does kapu alone mean?

    (And the BH just doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.)

    There’s no obvious relation beyond the words ‘pirmois/pirmais’ and they’re obvious in and of themselves.

    They are, but Latin primus shows that the difference to Slavic p(e)rv- just means that Slavic has innovated.

    ‘Tas’ in Latvian is the definite article (redundant here due to the ‘-ais’ ending on ‘pirmais’ but sometimes added for emphasis), also obvious (to me) relation to the seemingly definite article in Prussian ‘Stas’.

    Sure, but it’s also the same as the Slavic demonstrative pronoun tot/ten, ta, to, which is developing into a definite article in Czech. The vowel shift is regular (see above), and so is the loss of final -s.

    ‘kittans/citus’

    More on that later.

    (here, I assume that ‘pagār’ has a relation to the Latvian words/roots for taller/longer/higher (garš/garāks/garām) and the prefix ‘pa-’, which can mean ‘more than’ or serve as an extendor (personal terminology), so in effect the ‘pagār’ to me signifies something ‘higher than’;

    I’m sure you’re right. I am, however, reminded of Slavic gora “mountain”, the adjective to which (gorn-) often just means “upper”.

    …At the same time, this very word is a good lession in coincidence: the Georgian word for “mountain” is also gora, and that language isn’t even Indo-European.

    and I have a feeling that the idea of ‘not holding’ is equivalent to ‘not having’.

    That happens a lot. Spanish has replaced “have” by “hold” except to form the compound past tense, and the “have” word it replaced often meant “hold” in Latin. Have itself is related to Latin capere “take, grasp, seize, conquer”.

    * At first glance there is little relationship between ‘otrais/antars’, but keep in mind that a lot of the ‘uo’ sound in Latvian turns into ‘an’ sounds in Lithuanian [...] the relationship is a bit clearer.

    Excuse me while I geek out. :-) Take that antar- and send it through Grimm’s law, so that the t becomes “th” as in “thick”. Then you can either send the result through the last phase of the , which turns the th (spelled thus in the oldest Old High German writings) into d. That gives you modern German ander-. Or you can send it through the <inhale>Ingvaeonic nasal/spirant law<exhale> and, a weird vowel shortening later, you get English other.

    Replacing “second” by “other” appears to be common; several Slavic languages have done it (though with a different root, drug-).

    ‘roka/ranka’

    …Does that mean “hand”?

    I’m pretty sure ‘twaisei’ is ‘your’

    That makes sense by comparison to such things as Old Latin.

    * I think numbers are some of the easiest things to figure out in these languages and, for that matter, in most other Indo-European languages.

    Oh yes. In this case I’m surprised they’re so different, actually; but I can’t tell if either is closer to Slavic (roughly tretj-).

    ‘svētīt/Swintint’ also is a logical connection

    Yep, and Slavic has the same.

    KETWIRTS

    Whoa.

    …Two Wikipedia articles later, I find that (of course) the linguists knew about this surprising k; more later, it’s crazily late, I’m extremely tired and must go to bed.

  160. 660
    David Marjanović

    Excuse me while I geek out. :-)

    …and mangle the HTML.

    Fixed:

    Take that antar- and send it through Grimm’s law, so that the t becomes “th” as in “thick”. Then you can either send the result through the last phase of the High German consonant shift, which turns the th (spelled thus in the oldest Old High German writings) into d. That gives you modern German ander-. Or you can send it through the <inhale>Ingvaeonic nasal/spirant law<exhale> and, a weird vowel shortening later, you get English other.

    cicely!
    *tired attempt at pouncehug*

  161. 661
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    KY ““sex education””, otoh, sounds to be…pretty much what I would expect.

    A real pain in the ass, in other words?

    *ducks*

  162. 662
    morgan ?! epitheting a metaphor

    Hey Caine, is Chester doing okay? I hope so.

  163. 663
    Inaji

    Cicely:

    Caine, how is Chester doing?

    Badly. Might have to make the decision.

  164. 664
    cicely

    Caine: Oh, no!
    :(
    I’m so sorry.
    *extra-large hug*

    -

  165. 665
    Inaji

    Thanks, Cicely.

  166. 666
    Nutmeg

    Spam filter must have eaten my post. I’ll try it again with a different link.

    ***

    In an effort to make girls’ night a more regular occurrence, my group of female friends has decided that we will do a monthly knitting/crocheting/crafting night. I don’t know how to knit or crochet, and I’m too busy tomorrow to pick up supplies anyway. So I will be doing dragon boat ornaments instead.

    My grandma taught my mom to make them, and my mom taught me. I make new ones each Christmas and give them away as gifts. Fun with thread and patterns!

  167. 667
    morgan ?! epitheting a metaphor

    Caine,
    I’m so sorry Chester is so sick. Please give him a kiss for me.

  168. 668
    chigau (違う)

    ただいま。

  169. 669
    Inaji

    Morgan, thank you.

    Chigau, glad you’re home safe.

  170. 670
    Hekuni Cat, MQG

    David M:

    Whereabouts in meatspace are you? Alternatively, are you coming to Skepticon?

    I live in Northern Viriginia. Unfortunately, I will not be going to Skepticon, but I am looking forward to reading about it. :D

  171. 671
    Hekuni Cat, MQG

    Crudely Wrott – I’m so sorry. You have my deepest sympathies. If I can do anything, please let me know. *hugs*

  172. 672
    Hekuni Cat, MQG

    Giliell – I’m sorry you’re being treated so poorly by your family. *hugs*

    Portia – *pouncehug*

    cicely – Thank you for posting the link to the Caracal kittehs! Also, *pouncehug*

  173. 673
    Hekuni Cat, MQG

    Caine:

    Might have to make the decision.

    I’m so sorry to hear Chester still fares badly. *hugs*

    Thank you for posting the pictures of Rubin and Oliver.

  174. 674
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Caine:
    So sorry to hear about Chester.
    ****

    rq:
    Whoa!
    Hold your cicely’s horses!
    I have not been beaten once at Pictionary, let alone ‘again and again…’
    I thought that your side overcame that shared delusion after my 218th win.

    (j/k–it was only 133 times)

  175. 675
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Hekuni Cat:
    ::waves hello::
    If I may, does the MQG in your nym stand for anything?

    ****
    I just realized we have a few people round here with ‘cat’ or some variant in their nym (Hekuni Cat, CaitieCat, WMDKitty, and kittehserf.
    And does this prove PZ likes cats?

  176. 676
    chigau (違う)

    Caine
    Thanks.
    strokes and skritches for Chester.

  177. 677
    WMDKitty -- Survivor

    bladder update

    Appears to have been irritation combined with something I ate turning things a rather alarming shade of red. And (duh!) drinking ~100 oz of water a day*, makes for frequent trips.

    *Naproxen (over the long term) isn’t good for the kidneys, and staying well-hydrated is the least I can do to try and keep them healthy.

  178. 678
    chigau (違う)

    Tony! #674
    I think the prevalence of cat-like nyms just proves the wiseness and benevolence of Teh Overlord.
    (did I do that right?)

  179. 679
    WMDKitty -- Survivor

    Sorry if that was TMI.

  180. 680
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    *hugs* for Giliell and Caine, and moar hugs for Crudely and *scritches* for chester.
    Making an early night since I’ve got an interview tomorrow with an hour and a half trip to get to it (there’s a commute I’m not looking forward to).

  181. 681
    WMDKitty -- Survivor

    Tony

    PZ comes off as a Friend To All Living Things, so it wouldn’t be surprising at all if he tends to attract us.

    And now you have me wondering just how many Furries (and Scalies and Avians) we have here.

  182. 682
    Inaji

    Hekuni Cat, Chigau, & Dalillama, pilamayaye.

    Chester.

  183. 683
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Dalillama:
    Fingers crossed for you my friend. I hope you get the job.

    ****

    Sometimes, the most random thing enters my head. I got curious about the origin of _fingers crossed=good luck_ . Not sure what I expected, but it was not this:

    In the time of the early Church, Christians would cross their fingers in order to invoke the power associated with the Christian cross for protection, when faced with evil. [1] Moreover, Christians, when persecuted by the Romans, used the symbol of crossed fingers, along with the Ichthys, in order to recognize one another and assemble for worship services. [6] In 16th century England, people continued to cross fingers or make the sign of the cross in order to ward off evil, as well as when people coughed or sneezed.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossed_fingers

  184. 684
    Inaji

    Tony, thank you.

  185. 685
    thunk: turmite city

    Tony:

    MQG: Motley Queer Groupie, one of hekuni’s suggestions as to represent Quiltbag allies.

    also, there are some people who love cats, and those people really love them, to the point that whenever they name themselves, they pick cat-related names (or anything similar really). The examples listed aren’t the only ones.

  186. 686
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Good morning

    Hugs for Chester and Caine

    Fingers crossed for Dalillama

    cicely
    *hugs*
    Yeah, it doesn’t ever make any sense. It’s also that I did the walking on eggshells thingy for long enough.
    Right now I’m causing drinking by not surrendering my kids and by not jumping to their atteintion and by not includig them in every little detail of my life. Unasked involvement or disapproval at their discretion. I mean, man, why would I want to tell them about anything I’m planning to do if that is either met with making me feel like the worst person in the world for doing something that’s harmless fun or by my mother simply joining us without asking?
    Though I admit that I had hoped that after mum nearly dying in January that my father had learned something at least. Alas, he hasn’t. I remember that 2 1/2 years ago he tried to bully me into not cancelling #1′s birthday party in their garden. Because after my mother hadn’t left bed and taken a shower for days I did not feel positive about having guests there. And my mother cried and swore she’d be fit and he then tried to bully me into not cancelling because obviously mum had changed now and if I didn’t support her now it was my fault if she didn’t make it.
    *sigh*
    Sorry for dumping it all on you, folks. I’ll dump it on my therapist come Friday, I promise.

    WMDKitty
    Yay for good health update. UTIs aren’t exactly a pain in the ass.

  187. 687
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    And (duh!) drinking ~100 oz of water a day*, makes for frequent trips.

    Uh, you might want to double-check whether that’s safe as regards electrolyte balance. That’s kind of a lot. O.o

  188. 688
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    That’s kind of a lot. O.o

    Huh? That’s less than 3 litres a day. Doesn’t sound that much to me. Quick google-foo says that you need to drink twice as much to actually drink too much.*
    But it also seems to be the case that the hype about “you haaaaaaaaaaaaave to drink 60 ounces a day” is also just that: a hype. So, unless you actually drink so little that you dehydrate and unless you drink so much that your electrolytes go kaboing it seems like you should drink how much you like and ignore all the “good advice”

    *Unless you have a weak heart, then it’s much less.

  189. 689
    birgerjohansson

    Jackie, I am very happy to learn things seem to be working out for your friend.

    — — —
    Fact checking politicians gets results http://phys.org/news/2013-10-fact-politicians-results.html -Hooray!

    — — —
    Pre-Viking Age monuments uncovered in Sweden http://phys.org/news/2013-10-pre-viking-age-monuments-uncovered-sweden.html
    Thulsa Doom has much to answer for!

    — — —
    Low-wage fast-food jobs leave hefty tax bill, report says http://phys.org/news/2013-10-low-wage-fast-food-jobs-hefty-tax.html

    — — —
    Pupils ‘held back’ academically by their social background http://phys.org/news/2013-10-pupils-held-academically-social-background.html

  190. 690
    birgerjohansson

    Woman batters sleepy Swede with mackerel http://www.thelocal.se/50880/20131018/

    Stuff like this never happens to me…

  191. 691
    birgerjohansson

    Crudely, I am so sorry for you.

  192. 692
    birgerjohansson

    Cicely, than you.

    blf, myself I am -like corporal “Nobby” Nobbs- common as muck, 100% North Swedish peasant stock (presumably with a lot ofSami DNA, as the agriculturalists interacted with the Sami a lot).
    — — —
    Since aboriginal Australians have more Denisovan DNA than others the Denisovans probably made it east of the “Wallace line”, mingling with the H.sapiens sapiens coming that way.

  193. 693
  194. 694
    Kevin, Youhao Huo Mao

    @Tony:

    I’m not a cat, I’m a panda!

    @WMDKitty:

    I don’t describe myself as a furry, but I do enjoy the art. Also I kind of have somewhat “furry” type creatures in my story world (they’re human-animal hybrids created to be slaves of humans and elves.)

  195. 695
    Kevin, Youhao Huo Mao

    I have a song in my head that I don’t know what is called or who plays it, but it goes on repeat in my head over and over, and I don’t even know whether the words my head is singing are correct.

  196. 696
    carlie

    Kevin,
    Give us a few bars and we’ll see what we can do. :)

  197. 697
    Kevin, Youhao Huo Mao

    @carlie:

    Yea, no way I can describe it I think. It’s a slow modern swing song. I’ll eventually hear it on Pandora, but mleh.

  198. 698
    Pteryxx

    Kevin: maybe make a guess at the words on a lyrics search?

    via BB: Why the letter Q is no longer illegal in Turkey

    ‘Turkey is one vast schoolroom,’ National Geographic reported. ‘There is no “q”, no “w”, no “x” in the new alphabet… The left-hand edge of the typewriter is the hardest hit. One does not go to the “Maxim” Restaurant, but to the “Maksim”.’

    Romanisation, it was argued, would help standardise Turkish spelling, improve literacy, and allow for cheaper and more convenient printing (the Arabic script required more than 400 pieces of type). But the reform had other, political aims: imposing cultural homogeneity and assimilating Turkey’s minorities. New characters were added to the alphabet to accommodate Turkish phonology – ğ, ı, ü, ş – while others were left out. By adhering so closely to the specifics of Turkish and outlawing all other Latin characters (and all other scripts), it effectively proscribed written expression in any language other than Turkish – not least Kurdish, which was spoken by around 20 per cent of the population.

    Main article: Q vs K

    also via BB: Meet the design pirates who rip off independent artists

    Here’s another storming article from John Brownlee, this time about Cody Foster & Co, a purveyor of cheap accessories that’s becoming infamous for freakishly shameless swipes of other people’s work. By handling the dirty work of creative misappropriation, its clients — reported to include Anthropologie, Fab, Nordstroms, and more — may sell work designed by cool artists without paying them a cent. In the latest example, pictured above, even the artist’s signature was present on the clone.

    Main article: http://www.fastcodesign.com/3020194/how-a-company-gets-away-with-stealing-independent-designers-work

    According to AIPLA, the average cost of pursuing a copyright infringement suit with damages less than $1 million starts at $200,000, and can go as high as $350,000. “Any potential litigant has to evaluate how much of a commercial and personal stake he or she has in their creative work,” Crowne says. “An awful lot of artists would want to think two or three times about the expense of enforcing their copyright legally.”

    It’s classic steamrolling. Design pirates count on the fact that independent artists and designers will not have registered their copyrights, and that the legal costs of enforcing that copyright will be too much for most artists to endure. Even if they do have an existing registered copyright for their work, though, an artist must run a legal gauntlet to prove that their design has been infringed, which can exact a huge personal toll.

    It sounds hopeless, which is what design pirates are counting on. But there’s something design pirates should fear even more than legal battles: publicity.

  199. 699
    Lynna, OM

    Glenn Beck did a show in which he claimed that scientific research showed that Tea Partiers are better at science, but Beck mangled the statistics. Mother Jones link.

    From the research Beck was using to make a false claim:

    Again, the relationship is trivially small, and can’t possibly be contributing in any way to the ferocious conflicts over decision-relevant science that we are experiencing.

  200. 700
    Kevin, Youhao Huo Mao

    @Pteryxx:

    Nah, it’s fine. I get to listen to awesome musics for a while

  201. 701
    Lynna, OM

    Holy crap. This gallery of photos showing the pall of smoke over Sydney is just stunning.

    http://www.smh.com.au/photogallery/environment/smoke-over-sydney-20131017-2vpfj.html

  202. 702
    Tethys

    kevin

    It’s a slow modern swing song

    Let’s play Name That Tune! My first guess is
    Dance Me To The End Of Love

    written by Leonard Cohen, performed by Madeleine Peyroux.

  203. 703
    Kevin, Youhao Huo Mao

    @Tethys:

    Nope.

    It’s one of those swing revival bands – ala Big Bad Voodoo Daddies

    And Pandora answers my pleas:

  204. 704
    Kevin, Youhao Huo Mao

    Goddamn sorry about the embed

  205. 705
    Lynna, OM

    If right-wing Republicans can’t get what they want through normal democratic-society channels, they will try, try again. Now the Tea Party Republicans are going back to one of their earlier arguments, repealing the 17th amendment:

    Repealing the Seventeenth Amendment, which provides that voters and not state legislators will choose United States senators, is a cause célèbre among the purest of Tea Party conservatives. Texas Gov. Rick Perry (R) opposes allowing voters to choose their own senators, as does Justice Antonin Scalia, and Sens. Mike Lee (R-UT) and Ted Cruz (R-TX).

    As Jonathan Bernstein explains, opposing the Seventeenth Amendment has become a key way that Tea Party politicians can show off their conservative credentials in a GOP caught up in a “general, party-wide obsession with being a True Conservative . . . where pretty much every party actor agrees on matters of ideology and on specific issues of public policy.”

    This quest for purity is on full display in Texas, where two of the four Republican candidates for lieutenant governor — including incumbent Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst — called for voters to lose their ability to choose their own senators this month. According to candidate and state Sen. Dan Patrick (R-TX), “[g]ross overreaches of the federal government, like Obamacare, would never have seen the light of day if the states were still represented strongly in Congress through the Senate, as it was originally envisioned.”…

    Think Progress link.

  206. 706
    Kevin, Youhao Huo Mao

    And now that I listen to it, it makes little sense why Randall Shreve is in my swing revival station…

  207. 707
    Kevin, Youhao Huo Mao

    Um.

    Mexican drug lord assassinated by killer clowns

    Goddamn now I can’t ever trust clowns.

  208. 708
    cicely

    *catching David’s tired pouncehug, leading it to a comfy chair, and tucking a blanket around it*
    -
    Tony, how often must I remind you that I neighter [originally a misspelling, but too funny not to leave] own, nor am I owned by, Horses? In any quantity or fraction thereof.
    -
    *hugsback* for Giliell. You’re not dumping on us; you’re legitimately venting to a sympathetic audience.
    -

    Pre-Viking Age monuments uncovered in Sweden

    *blinkblink*
     
    Of course there must have been someone there before the Vikings…so why am I gobsmacked? Unexamined assumptions for the LOSE.
    -

  209. 709
    rq

    leaders

  210. 710
    David Marjanović

    Main article: Q vs K

    So much awesomeness in this sentence:

    “Kemal’s signature (now one of the most popular tattoos in Turkey) was designed by Hagop Çerçiyan, an Armenian calligrapher.”

    The second comment triggers my SIWOTI syndrome, though, and I can’t comment there:

    It’s a myth that the Roman alphabet is better suited to the sounds of Arabic.

    Turkish isn’t Arabic. Very far from it.

    Farsi and Urdu, both Indo-European, have most of the same sounds we do and use modified Arabic letters for them.

    Their vowel systems happen to be much more like that of Arabic than those of English or Turkish are.

    The complexity of Arabic type is due to the variations in letter shape depending on how the letters join to others, plus there are a variety of diacritical marks that modify some of the vowels.

    Modify? Some of the letters – for consonants – differ only in the number of added dots, and other diacritics are used to make vowels appear where necessary.

    My beef about Turkish is that, instead of using the well established circumflex forms for sh, ch and zh found in, say, some Slavic languages, they invented new forms so that Turkish ch looks like French c in garcon. Then they have this weird variant on g (which ironically DOES use the circumflex).

    Nope, it’s an arch, a breve. It’s round. And a circumflex has the tip at the top, not at the bottom.

    It seems, as best I can tell, to replace the glottal stop.

    Spoken like someone who has no idea what a glottal stop is. In Standard Turkish, ğ is a nod to etymology (pretty much the only one that’s there), pronounced like y between front vowels (e, i, ö, ü) and lengthening the preceding vowel in other contexts; in eastern dialects, it’s reportedly this sound.

    Then there’s that weird business of using “c” for the “j” sound, because they use j for “zh,”

    Yep, because of French. Funnily enough, the sound doesn’t occur in native words; almost all words where it does occur are loans from French.

  211. 711
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    tiny rattie hugs for Chester

  212. 712
    David Marjanović

    How much best to drink depends very strongly on the weather.

    *catching David’s tired pouncehug, leading it to a comfy chair, and tucking a blanket around it*

    That’s lovely. ♥

    *hugs and chocolate with 57 % cocoa and 14 % candied-or-so ginger for Caine*

    Since aboriginal Australians have more Denisovan DNA than others the Denisovans probably made it east of the “Wallace line”, mingling with the H.sapiens sapiens coming that way.

    Possible. Interbreeding with Neandertalers appears to have occurred only at the spot of first contact, though.

    I live in Northern Viriginia.

    Close to DC? Because I’ll be there before and (likely) after Skepticon. :-)

  213. 713
    Inaji

    Pteryxx:

    *hugs* for Caine and *scritches* for Chester. All the love for small trusting things that wash their faces in one’s hands.

    Waštélake na pilamayaye.*
     
    *love and thank you

  214. 714
    mouthyb, Vagina McTits

    I don’t know what I did last night with my eyes closed, but I’m damn sure it wasn’t sleeping. I feel like a robot with a poorly shielded power core–everything is arcing and snapping.

    And on the icky biological part, I’m coughing and phlegmy. -.-

  215. 715
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    Well, that was a waste of my morning. The stupid fuckers didn’t bother to mention in their ad or on the phone when I asked about bus routes that fucking job requires that I have a fucking car. Assholes.

    cicely

    *blinkblink*

    Of course there must have been someone there before the Vikings…so why am I gobsmacked? Unexamined assumptions for the LOSE.
    Well, there’s a very good chance that the people who built the monuments were ethnically similar to the people who went out Viking a few centuries later. The Viking Era is a particular time frame stretching from the 9th to 11th centuries, during which the economics and culture of Scandinavia and the rest of Europe were conducive to a lot of Scandinavians with boats going out to make their fortune off the rest of Europe, by whichever of trade and force of arms was most convenient at the time.

  216. 716
    PZ Myers

    NEW THREAD.

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