Comments

  1. ImaginesABeach says

    Ogvorbis –

    Check with your unemployment office. We have been told that my husband can collect unemployment during the shutdown (or slimdown, as Fox insists on calling it) and that if he ends up being paid for the time he was furloughed, he has to pay back the unemployment (without penalty if he does it promptly).

  2. Esteleth, statistically significant to p ≤ 0.001 says

    I slept in today.

    I then took a luxurious shower.

    I am now eating breakfast Lady Godiva style. :D

  3. Daniel Martin says

    Repeating my announcement from the last comment of the last thread:

    I’m looking for brave, chrome-using individuals who are comfortable loading a chrome extension not from the chrome store to test out the chrome-based revival of my old greasemonkey killfile.

    Those interested can download the extension from https://github.com/fizbin/killfile-extension/releases. You’ll need to right-click and “save link as…”, then install it from your downloads folder. (Recent chrome makes it a few extra clicks to install from places that aren’t the chrome store)

    Bug reports through github.

  6. says

    Up and working for the day. Foggy and grey here, even in mid-morning, with an unusually warm autumn continuing.

    A good day for some Lowest of the Low. They’re hard to find online in good recordings on video, but that’s one song off an amazing album they did called “Shakespeare My Butt”, that sums up one of the things I like about them. A bit of the lyric from Henry Needs a New Pair of Shoes:

    The time has long come and gone
    P.F. Flyers, Converse high-cuts or maybe a new pair of Docs
    And I know what I’ll do
    I’ll appeal to their sense of brotherhood
    And when nobody’s looking
    I’ll grab a pair and I’ll start hoofin’

    Well in these cold, grey days
    It’s no longer news
    Henry needs a new pair of shoes

    They also have a couple of songs about the Internationalist side of the Spanish Civil War, including my favourite of theirs, For the Hand of Magdalena, a romantic song about a volunteer who met a local woman whose father was on the fascist side:

    And all for the hand of Magdalena
    Your boots planted in the soil of Spain
    (Your heart broken in the soil of Spain)
    (Your blood’s red like the soil of Spain)
    Like her tears in the Spanish rain
    All for the hand of Magdalena

    Clark Gable with a bayonet, you never thought anyone could look so cool
    And she could handle that Soviet pistol like she learned to do it in school

    I wish I could find a recording of it, but back in the early 90s I saw them do a show where they closed this song by a seque into Bella Ciao, and being almost gooseflesh-covered when the whole audience knew the chorus and sang along.

    This has been your aging leftist Canadian indie-band advert for the day. :)

  7. says

    Government shutdown in a nutshell: Keep all the bad going, shut down all the good stuff.

    If a government shutdown genuinely shut the entire government down, you might be able to trace a few silver linings from an otherwise bad situation. Military conflicts might end (or at least be temporarily suspended), the destructive drug war might grind to a halt, mass surveillance might be put on hold and congressional legislators might be financially punished for their malicious behavior. But a government shutdown is mostly just a shutdown of good things — stuff like Head Start and food assistance to low-income moms and kids. Indeed, because of the way shutdowns are structured, the only silver lining from a budget stalemate is that you might get to hear a few curse words and see some nudity on television….

    So, in sum, major portions of The State — aka the Military-Industrial Complex, the Police State, the revenue-generating apparatus of the IRS and professional politicians in Washington — are somewhat exempted from the effects of the shutdown. Meanwhile, The Government — aka the Safety Net, the Regulators and the Inspectors — gets hit hard.

    At a practical level, this institutionalized double standard creates incentives for government shutdowns — at least on the political right. That’s because while conservatives loathe The Government, they love The State. …

    http://www.salon.com/2013/10/06/gops_massive_fraud_the_shutdown_isnt_really_a_shutdown/

    Of course, this is overly simplified. Having a military is not all bad, ditto for surveillance, and the IRS. Congress on the other hand ….

    Still, it does seem true that Republicans love shutting down Head Start programs and programs that provide infant formula to low-income families. Happy, happy times for them. Cutting back on surveillance scares them more than malnutrition for infants and children.

  8. UnknownEric the Apostate says

    CaitieCat @6:

    Loved that band. Had tickets to see them in 94 in Buffalo, but they broke up just before the gig.

  9. says

    UnknownEric @8: They’re still gigging occasionally since sorta-reuniting-ish. I saw them at Massey Hall for the 20th Anniversary of the SMB album, and they were amazing, still tight, the voices right, and the crowd were hardcore LotL fans, pretty much the whole place sang every word of every song, and it was really great. They really are worth seeing live, and I don’t say that about many bands.

    I just wish there were a good corpus of not-recorded-on-my-smartphone concerts available online, so I could point people to them and say, “look, look, awesome, look!” But most are of really shoddy audio quality, and they’re one of those bands you want to hear the lyrics from, because they’re never just “oh i love you baby you make me warm for you and i want to make sexy times with you now now now baby uh-huh”, as my old-lady ears hear most of the radio anymore. :)

  10. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    Dittoing all the comments against Chas’s “deal with it” comment, here and in the thunderdome.

    thunk, I’m so, so sorry. :(

    Ing, I love your comments here. I always look for them because they make me laugh, and better yet they make me think as well. Fuck those assholes.

  11. Ogvorbis: Apologies Available for All! says

    ImaginesABeach @1:

    Check with your unemployment office. We have been told that my husband can collect unemployment during the shutdown (or slimdown, as Fox insists on calling it) and that if he ends up being paid for the time he was furloughed, he has to pay back the unemployment (without penalty if he does it promptly).

    That would be good. I’ll check that on Monday.

  12. says

    Speaker of the House and Republican Professional Doofus, John Boehner, reassured people all last week that he would not allow the nation to default on its debts when the debt ceiling came up for a vote on October 17th. Yeah, right. I suspected that was all double-talk. Today, Boehner confirmed the double-talk nature of his false assurances when he appeared on Sunday talk shows.

    Think Progress link.

    House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) said the nation would default on its debt later this month if President Obama does not agree to GOP’s demands to cut spending and change parts of the Affordable Care Act.
    Appearing on ABC’s This Week on Sunday, Boehner agreed that the risks of failing to raise the debt ceiling would be “catastrophic,” leading credit markets to freeze, the dollar to lose its value, and interest rates to skyrocket. But, he insisted that “the president is putting the nation at risk by his refusal to have a conversation” ….

    “We are not going to pass a clean debt limit increase,” Boehner told Stephanopoulos, “I told the president, there’s no way we’re going to pass one… the votes are not in the House to pass a clean debt limit.” The comment is a reversal for Boehner, who has previously counseled Republicans that they must deal with the debt-ceiling vote “as adults” and act responsibly in paying for the spending Congress had previously authorized. …

    If I may translate: Republicans fully intend to force a default, but they also have plans to blame the default on President Obama.

    There are also some Republicans, Rand Paul among them, who are promoting the myth that defaulting on our debts will not be such a bad think. Treasury Secretary Jack Lew disagrees:

    U.S. Treasury Secretary Jack Lew, who is making the rounds on Sunday’s political talk shows, warned that the nation will default unless Congress raises its $16.7 trillion debt ceiling by Oct. 17.

    “If the United States government, for the first time in its history, chooses not to pay its bills on time, we will be in default,” explained Lew on CNN’s “State of the Union.” “There is no option that prevents us from being in default if we don’t have enough cash to pay our bills.”

    According to Lew, the government has about $30 billion in cash, which is not a “responsible amount of cash to run the government on.”

    “I’m telling you that on the 17th, we run out of our ability to borrow, and Congress is playing with fire,” Lew said.

  13. says

    Shutting down the government is a Republican plan that has been brewing for some time, ever since Obama took office for his second term.

    … …

    a little-noticed “blueprint to defunding Obamacare,” signed by Mr. Meese [former Attorney General Edwin Meese III] and leaders of more than three dozen conservative groups.

    It articulated a take-no-prisoners legislative strategy that had long percolated in conservative circles: that Republicans could derail the health care overhaul if conservative lawmakers were willing to push fellow Republicans — including their cautious leaders — into cutting off financing for the entire federal government.

    “We felt very strongly at the start of this year that the House needed to use the power of the purse,” said one coalition member, Michael A. Needham, who runs Heritage Action for America, the political arm of the Heritage Foundation. “At least at Heritage Action, we felt very strongly from the start that this was a fight that we were going to pick.”…

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/us/a-federal-budget-crisis-months-in-the-planning.html

    The billionaire Koch brothers, Charles and David, have been deeply involved with financing the overall effort. A group linked to the Kochs, Freedom Partners Chamber of Commerce, disbursed more than $200 million last year to nonprofit organizations involved in the fight. Included was $5 million to Generation Opportunity, which created a buzz last month with an Internet advertisement showing a menacing Uncle Sam figure popping up between a woman’s legs during a gynecological exam.

    If they had shown John Boehner or Ted Cruz popping up between a woman’s legs during a gynecological exam, the ad might have been a bit more accurate. It’s Republicans who have promoted legislation to mandate unnecessary vaginal probe ultrasounds etc.

  14. Daniel Martin says

    @NightShadeQueen:I know of no reason why it wouldn’t work, but I also haven’t tested it on chromium (my main dev. laptop these days is a chromebook).

    I am working on a firefox version but am finding reading the firefox Add-On documentation a bit of an uphill battle. It seems that firefox exposes a sufficiently similar API, but it’s still going to be quite a bit of manual porting and then a fair amount of juggling to keep the two versions in sync.

  15. Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought says

    What kind of an idiot sets up a job application system where you fill in the form online, but don’t get any sort of feedback except from “thanks for applying” after you hit submit?!
    I expected an autoreply to the email address I left, preferably with the whole filled form.

    I like to save all my applications so that I later know exactly what I wrote if I get called for an interview, and I couldn’t even copy paste this one… and I didn’t go as far as to think of taking screenshots.
    *pouts*

  16. Crudely Wrott says

    In honor of Matthew Shepard and tomorrow’s fifteenth anniversary of his brutal murder I am delighted to refer you to today’s edition of the Casper Star-Tribune, Wyoming’s statewide, daily paper.

    There is a series of articles in today’s Sunday Star-Trib that address what it means to be a gay person in Wyoming. I draw particular attention to the first of them, “Gay Wyoming: Life After Matthew Shepard. Three people are highlighted and speak of their situations, their histories and their love of Wyoming. The first, Janet Youngholm, has roots in both Wyoming and New Hampshire. So do I. Deep roots. Reading her story moved me deeply.

    She and Janet de Vries and Mike Fostmeier remind me of people I have known. People who to some degree I understood and found friendship with. People whose lives were complicated and challenged daily for no better reason than the inability of others to accept them. How happy I am to see that acceptance is becoming more common. Even if by fits and starts, I see promise and progress alive among us all.

    As a straight white male I rejoice in the stories of these three. As a straight white male I am humbled by the stories of those who spent all or most or even part of their lives being denied the open doors and instant inclusion that I simply took for granted for the greater part of my life.

    I am indebted to a great army of people for opening my eyes. That army is incredibly diverse and includes an improbable cast of characters. I am grateful to them all for helping me to arrive at where I find myself today. Special mention must be extended to you, dear and awesome Horde. For you have given words to voices I had only heard in the background before and too often found convenient to ignore. You have articulated the pain and loneliness of the disenfranchised. You have, knowingly or not, taken me by the hand and shown me what I had not seen; what I needed to see. For this great kindness I am ever indebted and ever thankful for the burden of that debt.

    So, please, follow the link above, scroll past the story of the 1988 Yellowstone Fire (or read that first — it’s a great example of having erroneous assumptions and later realizing and admitting the errors) and honor Matthew and uncounted others by reflecting on and celebrating the painfully slow but irresistible gains that are manifest today.

    *when you visit Wyoming, don’t wear your Stetson pushed back on your head; the front brim is meant to be pulled below the horizontal over your eyes so you don’t look like a greenhorn. =)*

  17. says

    Moments of Mormon Madness, General Conference category. Mormons get together in Salt Lake City, Utah twice a year to hold a “General Conference.” This weekend is GC hot-bloviations-and-tears time in SLC.

    I know, I know. I should have told you all sooner so that you would be certain NOT to miss a second of this mormon extravaganza. Sorry.

    But, don’t worry, I can provide you with an example that demonstrates that you did not miss a damned thing. It’s all the same old, same old — and the speeches were as offensive as one could wish. Here is your taste:

    Link: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/56965652-78/god-lds-marriage-church.html.csp …

    On the second and final day of the LDS Church’s 183rd Semiannual General Conference, apostle Dallin H. Oaks bemoaned America’s dropping birthrates, later marriages and rising incidence of cohabitation as evidence of “political and social pressures for legal and policy changes to establish behaviors contrary to God’s decrees about sexual morality and the eternal nature and purposes of marriage and child-bearing.”

    These pressures “have already permitted same-gender marriages in various states and nations,” Oaks told 20,000 Mormons gathered in the Conference Center in downtown Salt Lake City and millions more watching worldwide via telecasts and the Internet. “Other pressures would confuse gender or homogenize those differences between men and women that are essential to accomplish God’s great plan of happiness.”

    An LDS eternal perspective does not allow Mormons “to condone such behaviors or to find justification in the laws that permit them,” said the apostle, a former Utah Supreme Court justice. “And, unlike other organizations that can change their policies and even their doctrines, our policies are determined by the truths God has declared to be unchangeable.” …

    Apostle Dallin Oaks went on to talk at length about “sexual purity.” And …, see below.

    Adrian Q. Ochoa of the Quorum of the Seventy cautioned his listeners “not to view filthy images or give your attention to the false accusers of Christ and the Prophet Joseph Smith.”

    Here’s a video of Dallin Oaks trying to kill you with boredom, and if not boredom, then head-desking.
    http://www.lds.org/general-conference/watch/2013/10?lang=eng&vid=2724154478001&cid=5

  18. says

    This is a follow up to my post @17, showing that the basic premise of apostle Oaks’ speech does not hold water even in mormondom. The following is from ex-mormon, Richard Packham:

    “…our policies are determined by the truths God has declared to be unchangeable,” Oaks said.

    I was able to talk for over an hour a couple of years ago at an exmormon meeting about all the changes in policies, doctrines and practices.

    See also the excellent book “This Is My Doctrine” by Charles Harrell for a thorough analysis of how Mormon doctrine has indeed changed and evolved. My review is at http://packham.n4m.org/doctrine.htm

    Yeah, unchanging, my ass. Moreover another apostle made the NY Times news by admitting that mormons and mormon prophets have made mistakes. Link.

  19. kittehserf says

    Esteleth @2 – ::is envious:: :)

    Since I posted just as the previous Lounge closed for comments and I’m jumping up and down looking for attention being persistent, here is the Mick Aston Memorial Coat again. It took just 26 days to knit (mind you, some of those days consisted of “eat, sleep and knit”).

    This is the coat laid flat, with Mads showing scale (and of course adding a few more furs, because what garment is complete without them?)

  20. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    #19 kittenserf

    OoooOooh, that is pretty. I wish I could stuff like that.

  21. says

    In case you watched Fox News and were under the impression that President Obama is building a museum to house examples of Muslim culture:

    Defending its perch atop of what Jon Stewart affectionately refers to as Bullsh-t Mountain, on Saturday Fox falsely reported that President Barack Obama is using his personal funds to construct a museum devoted to Muslim culture. MediaMatters caught the “Fox & Friends Saturday” segment, which criticized Democrats for the closure of the World War II Memorial that resulted from the (Republican-triggered) government shutdown. Co-host Anna Kooiman was appalled that the government would not fund the memorial, especially since “President Obama has offered to pay out of his own pocket for the museum of Muslim culture.”

    Via Snopes.com, MediaMatters notes that Kooiman’s “information” comes from The National Report, a satirical Web site whose articles “are fiction, and presumably fake news,” according to a former disclaimer.
    …

    Fake news, fake sources. It’s all balanced, if not fair.

    Salon link.

  22. kittehserf says

    JAL@ 20, thank ‘ee!

    Do you do crafts at all, or have you ever fancied it? I tell ya, the coat’s almost as basic as a scarf. Three wonky triangles and two rectangles! :P

  23. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    22
    kittehserf

    I don’t do any crafts. I’ve never had the time, energy or means to do so. Just think it’s really neat and think maybe one day I can to it. I’m sure it’d come in handy now, but I barely have the energy to do my coping mechanisms these days.

  24. kittehserf says

    JAL – I’m sorry about that. It sucks so much when just coping takes all one’s energy and then some. :(

    Extra hugs if they’re welcome.

  25. says

    kittehserf @ 19, that’s gorgeous! And the coat is lovely, too. ;)

    What? I have am owned by a tortie and a calico.

  27. kittehserf says

    JAL, you are most welcome. :)

    Anne D – LOL! I’m owned by two kittehs as well.

    What’s the distinction between calico and tortie? Calico is with white, is that right? They all tend to be called torties or tortie-tabbies in Oz. My other girl’s a blue-cream tortie with white. This is the pair of ’em slobbing around in front of the heater a few months back. Have you any pics of your two you’d like to share? One can never see too many kitties.

  28. Markita Lynda—threadrupt says

    From the previous thread (apparently I typed this and then wandered off without submitting):

    Awakeinmo @16, welcome! I hope you enjoy lurking & commenting and don’t let keeping up take over your life.

    Dalillama @62, I prefer Usanian (USAnian?), which is easier to pronounce, and I’m a bit surprised not to see it here. But I don’t usually use it at folks from the U.S., because they don’t seem to like it; rather, I reserve it for private or third-party discussions when we’re talking about people in North America and the distinction becomes useful. “United States” isn’t unique even in North America as the U.S.A. is next to “Estados Unidos Mexicanos.”

    In addition, it’s ridiculously warm here for October (21 C in the evening) and the trees in my home town are still green for the most part and have most of their leaves. The leaves should be red or brown by now.

  30. sereganor says

    hi i’m a lurker. posted here a couple times but i can’t deal with the constant and i mean CONSTANT javascript syntax error popups dinging my computer when i try to look at this site in firefox. and can’t remember my password for here. and can’t remember the password to my yahoo account where i would use to reset the password for here. so i made a new email. and a new profile here. because that was easier.

    dealing with some pretty hefty executive function issues right now. i just.

    i was having an okay weekend. was not getting much done but i did half the dishes. was going to do the other half tonight.

    but i got an email from my mom with some stupid family shit and i just need to vent or something and no one i know is online right now.

    she’s been coming out with this shit about visiting for thanksgiving for months now. well. stuff like “don’t change your work schedule just to come see us” alternates with “you never come to visit” alternates with “the house will be full, i don’t know where you’ll sleep” and “we miss you” and “but you shouldn’t have to drive that far on thanksgiving” and the new zinger “but i never told you not to come”

    and i just

    drained.

    shut down. look at a pile of stuff that needs to get done and can’t do it. look at a pile of my clothes that need repairs and can’t begin the cognitive process to do it, not even as far as pick out the right needle and thread for the job. look at the dishes and immediately see a thousand other steps that need to get done before i tackle them and i can’t find the first link in the chain. if i could i’d do it but i can’t.

    guys im sorry about the lack of capitals that i just dont even have the energy to bother with them right now.

    i was fine until the emails. a little tired. but i could function. now ive been sitting here without even the willpower to push the next episode button on netflix.

    it’s like i was a bucket that was a little low maybe half full but then someone just came along and dumped it out.

    (my bucket has holes in the side that it never really gets above about three quarters full. sometimes i can get some tape over the holes and manage to have it full for a little while. med are helping seal up some of the holes. but family just rips off all the tape.)

    and yet i’m obligated to make at least one visit a year and if that’s all they get they complain about it. they want to come see me but there is nothing to do in this town in the fall if you don’t like football. nothing.

    you know if you strongly encourage someone not to come visit you, they will think you don’t want them to come visit. to gaslight them into believing that you do but they’re reading you wrong, is just very bad form.

    i shut up now. sorry. thanks for listening

  31. annie55 says

    I was waiting for the new lounge. So glad it is up and that now I can ask questions.

    I own an itty-bitty business in conservative “small town Michigan.” Folks had no idea what to make of me initially, but we’re good now.

    Can activists understand why some of us need to stay in the closet?

  32. chigau (違う) says

    sereganor
    Welcome.
    i usually hate the non-cap but meh.
    Have some grog.
    You could agree with everything your mom says.
    and I mean EVERYTHING.
    and then for your Thanksgiving weekend, get a huge pile of DVD’s, your favorite munchies, your favorite beverage, turn off the phone and the internet.
    enjoy.

  33. says

    kittehserf, and anybody else who wants to see more cats – I’m not sure how to make links pretty on this blog, so I’ll just post them directly.

    Patches, the angora calico: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v368/pgdavis/Davis%20Family/Patchessmaller.jpg

    Shadow, the tortie-mese: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v368/pgdavis/Davis%20Family/Shadow-2.jpg

    They’re sisters, and about twelve-and-a-half now. We adopted them at six weeks, and the daughters had naming rights.

  34. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Jesus, I feel almost physically ill reading the response to the letter from the grandfather.

  35. says

    kittehserf, my understanding (and I could be mistaken) is that calico in the US is is what everybody else calls “tortie and white”.

    *adds to the pile of hugs for everybody, before I forget again*

  36. carlie says

    sereganor, you are among people who understand and people who empathize and people who sympathize. Lie there and close your eyes if you need to and ignore everything because you deserve to take the time you need and don’t answer the phone or emails or anything. The way they’re treating you is insensitive and it’s not your fault even if they say so.

  37. kittehserf says

    Anne D – I is ded of cute! Patches in particular, she is SO CUTE lookit teh fluffeh belleh

    ::melts in puddle of squee::

  38. cicely says

    Hi, serenganor! Welcome in!
     
    There’s nothing quite like a parental guilt-trip, is there? You have my sympathies. It took me manymanymany years to learn how to let my mother’s attempts to drop a guilt-trip on me, roll right off my back. Think, “greased turtle”.
    Do you also get to have the ones where a sibling is maneuvered into dropping the guilt-trip?
    –

  42. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    Pretty squid, #39 Markita Lynda—threadrupt!
    ====
    30
    sereganor

    I’m so sorry. That’s so messed up. *hugs* if you want them. I have no advice or other help, I’m sorry. :(
    ===============
    ==================

    Of all my issues, my mother never gave me guilt trips. Me and her feel terrible guilt all on our own, so much so that we keep stuff bottled up because it’ll make the other person sad, which will make us feel worse.

    ==============

    Do you know what will sometimes help you feel better? If you don’t go a whole day without eating! I’m brilliant, I tell ya.

    ==============

    There is one thing I’ve been dying to tell ya’ll since I came back: we haz kittehs. My mother’s husband (soon to be ex)’s black cat had a litter of 4 kittens. We got one adopted through my mom’s close friend, which was good, but then my mom’s friend’s boyfriend hit her for the first time, which is really bad. Because of the shelter problems and specifically the problems with adopting out black cats, especially around this time of year, my mom kept one and we’ve kept two.

    Now, I haven’t said anything because of my problems and the thought of losing them is just so hard (one here is actually Roomie’s so obviously goes with him, which is sad enough). However, with your guy’s help this month and some more good news, if we can just hold out a little longer we’ll all be okay.

    So, what’s my more good news? My mom just checked her mail and her social security disability got approved!!!

    =D

    It’ll take time and processing, which I’m sure will be delayed longer due to the shutdown, before she gets any money but it’s coming. And then we all can get an apartment away from here where my abusive ex found us and away from my mother’s abusive soon to be ex husband.

    =)))))))))))

    I’m guessing it was approved before the shut down but no one called her, or more accurately no one could reach her because fuckface husband broke every phone they had in the house.

  43. says

    JAL, good news! I’m glad things are looking up for you and yours, because you deserve all the best good things. *hugs offered*

  44. Crudely Wrott says

    Welcome, serengagnor!

    Do make yourself at home. The large pile of grog and BACON! and kidduns and*hugs* and I just don’t know what all else (rest assured that it’s all Horde Approved Grade A good stuff) on the floor over there probably has something for you that’s just right. There may be peas but, dear friend, they are HAGA so no worries there. Er, you do like peas, don’t you?

    Please help yourself and relax. Is good for you.

    If I may, one piece of advice? One. Thing. At. A. Time. You might be surprised at how rapidly it’ll all add up. =)
    ___________
    I think that once you get your accounts and passwords lined out you’ll have little problem finding the Lounge and posting as you please. I have used FireFox and WordPress exclusively for a few years now with hardly a hiccup. Hope you get your squeaking wheels greased and enjoy a smooth experience here.

  45. kittehserf says

    JAL, yay for the good news! I hope you and your mum and kitties can get right away from the fuckshites and be safe.

  46. cicely says

    JAL, I’m glad to hear that things are looking up! And relieved that your mother is going to rid herself of her abusive husband.
     
    All that, plus kitties, too!
    :)
    –

  47. Crudely Wrott says

    JAL, I am so happy to hear of your improving fortune, your Mom’s improving fortune and that you gotz kidduns. That all makes for a big happy!
    _______
    I want to add my voice and my heart to those who have told Ing (Ingdigo!) how much value and thoughtfulness has been added to our lives by reading a looong history of salient and insightful comments by a very perspicacious observer of the human condition.

    Thanks, Ing (Ingdigo!). (Just added your nym to my browser’s dictionary. Sort of a ritual for me, signifying something more than a handshake and just shy of a bear hug.) I hope to read more of you for a long time to come. My best wishes to you.

  48. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    Thanks everyone! :D

    Da kittehs are, of course, adorable, playful and mess everything up but they make everything better too.

    Funny story: One of the black kittens (it happens so quick that I couldn’t tell who) jumped up on the back of my computer chair, exactly opposite of a shinny black marker board I have hanging my wall. The light was on so I saw her reflection. Now, I don’t know if it was the reflection or a misguided attempt at climbing it, but the kitty jumped full force head first into the wall. I was laughing and awwing so much, I could scarcely breathe, the poor thing. She (they are both girls) took off running so I couldn’t give comforting cuddles.

  49. Crudely Wrott says

    JAL:

    Da kittehs are, of course, adorable, playful and mess everything up but they make everything better too.

    “What!! Kiddun! You is crazy, mah kiddun nun nun. You dust like a little tiny kiddun, you funny liddul critter, you. Mah good kiddun. You is crazy. C’mon, c’mon an get some luv. You silly nun nun nun nun. You is crazy.”

    That’s what I tells ’em, JAL. They is just silly nun nuns. They is crazy! ‘At’s why they did get love. Cuz they is so silly little ones. Just like liddle kidduns. Like nun nuns. Liddul nun nuns. You haz to howd ’em, don’t you? And get ’em right on they fat little bellies. Um hmmm.

    /silly kiddy talk but not really

  50. chigau (違う) says

    I think I may have hit on the optimal combination of methocarbmol, ASA and a wee dram.
    I feel quite mellow.
    so, good night, sleep quiet to those in my Zone.
    G’day to the other hemisphere.

  51. Crudely Wrott says

    I’ve been looking through a small refractor telescope at the eastern sky. If I had a large telescope the sight would knock me slap down. There are so many places out there! Have you seen?
    _______
    When you wake, chigau, may your dreams be remembered with smiles.

    *goes back to eyepiece to travel outward on streams of photons, into the past, to behold wonders that may have ceased to be yet still proclaim their existence to my eye*

  52. tbtabby says

    Did anyone else join Trolling With Logic for their live debunking of Evolution vs. God on Saturday. I wan in the IRC chat. They even referenced one of my comments!

  53. Tony! The Immorally Inferior Queer Shoop! says

    sereganor:
    Welcome in new Lounge denizen!

    Sorry to hear you are having stress with the family. Hopefully one day they will no longer be such a drain on you.

    Btw, I wouldn’t worry about the lack of capital letters in your comment. This is not a formal environment with Teh Rulez for proper communication (some things, such as paragraph breaks and punctuation are but neither was a problem in your comment).

    ****
    annie55:
    Welcome to the Lounge.

    Glad you were able to smooth things out. Being in the closet can be very tough.
    Feel free to comment any time you like. The thread is ongoing with multiple conversations.

  54. Tony! The Immorally Inferior Queer Shoop! says

    Markita:
    I like USanian. You’re right, it is easier to say than USian.

    ****

    Follow up to last nights good news with my father…for the first time in my life, my parents said they look forward to the day when I come down to see them in Orlando and bring my partner.
    I nearly cried.
    Several years ago, I expressed frustration with my mother that I did not feel a BF would be welcome in the way that they warmly accept my sisters BFs. I never got a response.
    Until yesterday.
    Such a relatively minor thing and I was overwhelmed with joy.
    ****
    ::the queer shoop, having just read kittehserf’s @37 quietly wonders what a puddle of squee looks like.
    ****
    JAL @42:
    I am so happy for you. Good news indeed!

  55. birgerjohansson says

    Isn’t “Murkan” easier to spell? (sarcasm, aimed at Tea Party)

    I tend to screw up HTML -if I post a link to an image , will the image come up directly in the Lounge thread and suck up bandwidth, or will the link just sit there quietly until someone clicks on it? I think there is a difference between the Lounge and the Thunderdome in how it works.

    — — — — — — — — — —
    Giant Squid Washes Ashore In Cantabria, Spain (VIDEO) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/04/giant-squid-washes-ashore_n_4044480.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

  56. strange gods before me ॐ says

    birger, an image shouldn’t embed no matter whether the link is raw. Youtube video links will auto-embed if they are raw links and at the end of the comment. Same behavior regardless of thread.

  57. strange gods before me ॐ says

    … an image shouldn’t won’t embed …

    Youtube videos “shouldn’t” embed, but they do.

  59. strange gods before me ॐ says

    Technically yes, but there isn’t a better one. I’d recommend waiting and seeing what happens.

  60. strange gods before me ॐ says

    Probably couldn’t hurt to share what’s making you feel that way though. What’s up, Kev?

  61. says

    Good morning
    Rather ‘rupt, but, well…
    Let me tell you about the weekend.
    The weekend started on Thursday with a holiday and the first day of my 4 day job as an interpreter. There’s a Flamenco-group here and for their 20th aniversary they put up a big show, together with 2 professional flamenco-musicians, the local church’s gospel choir* and a group from Spain, so my job was it to translate for the Spaniards and to help things run smoothly, before, during and after the show and for the culturl program they put up for them. Which is yeah fuck exhausting. Yesteday I went to bed at 9pm and turned off the light half an hour later because I was smothered.
    But as exhausting as it was, as demanding as it was, it was great. Not only the show, not only this most amazing group of people who make you feel like you belong from the start, but also the fact that people recognized my work and praised it and thanked me (not to mention the pay…).
    So, I’m running things in the background. I’m making sure those in the spotlight can be there and not worry about other things. Yes I need to listen to people describe yucky medical details in Spanish and then translate them for the doc, I give aid and comfort and tell you what, I’m damn good at it!
    Oh, and btw, fuck any dudebro who wants to tell us about “old women” next. I double dare them to keep up with the woman who runs the flamenco group.

    Ing
    you’re a wonderful person and I’m glad to know you *fluffy hugs*

    thunk
    *big fluffy hugs* fou you, too. what the others said.


    JAL
    Yayyyyyyyyyyyy!


    sereganor
    Welcome!
    The corner for people with guilt-tripping gaslighting mothers is right over here.
    If it’s any help, my mother feels rejected and necglected because starting next week I have to cut down visits to once a week. At least I didn’t get a suicide threat, yet.


    Tony
    Yay!

    *I swear, even an award-winning German gospel choir makes gospel sound like “Stille Nacht”

  62. says

    @SGBM:

    I work for the government.

    People all over the world are arseholes (and I read the Thunderf00t posts and comments.)

    The US is very likely to default on the debt ceiling, unless the President agrees to take health insurance away from millions of people – and people are cheering about this as if it’s the best thing ever.

  64. birgerjohansson says

    Some decent ex-conservatives and their comments:
    David Stockman, Bruce Bartlett, Michael Lofgren
    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/10/06/1244120/-GOP-is-an-insurrectionist-neo-Confederate-party?showAll=yes

    Billy Graham; still alive but not reality-oriented. http://www.newsmax.com/newswidget/Graham-evangelist-final-message/2013/10/05/id/529474?promo_code=12289-1&utm_source=12289Raw_Story&utm_medium=nmwidget&utm_campaign=widgetphase1

    I am over-compensating for a tendency to squint at cameras in this photo: http://scienceblogs.com/aardvarchaeology/2013/10/05/aardvarchaeology-summit/
    (or it could be an effect from living with the Deep Ones too long)

  70. Walton says

    Immigration news round-up. I’ve attended a couple of protests lately demanding a public inquiry into the horrifying sexual abuse of detainees at the Yarl’s Wood immigration removal centre. And I have another post up about it at The Feminist Hivemind. [TW on the link for severe abuse and neglect.] The immigration enforcement system is sexist, racist, homophobic and violent.

    Also, from the other side of the Atlantic, here’s a piece on how the US government shutdown is affecting immigration enforcement. Most ICE employees are considered “essential”, so arrests, detention and deportations are continuing – but EOIR, the agency in the Department of Justice which operates the immigration courts, is operating with severely reduced staffing, likely leading to immigration detainees spending more time in detention awaiting their immigration court hearings.

  71. awakeinmo says

    kittehserf #19
    Nice! You’ve inspired me to pick up the needles again. I had knit a dissected frog for my Honey (inspired by Emily Stoneking’s knits), and he then asked for a knit fetal pig in a jar. Eventually, he wants a whole macabre menagerie. Knitting the Fiji Mermaid will be quite a task…

    Markita Lynda—threadrupt #28

    I hope you enjoy lurking & commenting and don’t let keeping up take over your life.

    I do, I will, and too late. Thanks!

  72. says

    Prominent Republican gadfly, Representative Peter King (N.Y.), admitted on Fox News Sunday that, yes, Republicans are the ones responsible for shutting down the government:

    “I’ve been against this government shutdown form the start. Now, I disagree with [Georgia Republican Tom Graves], we are the ones who did shut the government down. Charles Krauthammer called it the “suicide caucus.” I mean, Wall Street Journal said they were “kamikazes.” You don’t take the dramatic step of shutting down the government unless you have a real strategy and has a chance of working. It’s never had a chance of working; we’re now almost pushing ‘Obamacare’ to the side and we’re talking about other issues, and people are still out of work and the government is still shut down.”

    And this website http://bridgeproject.com/?blog_detail&id=48 put together a list of Republicans blaming Republicans for the shutdown.

    Example: Rep. Devin Nunes On Tea Party Stubbornness: “It’s Mostly Just About Power. And It’s Just Gotten Us Nowhere.”

  73. cicely says

    xkcd
    –
    Tony:
    :) :) :)
    –
    Giliell:
    also :) :) :)
    –
    *hugs* for Kevin.
    Unfortunately, this is (for now…) the only world we’ve got.
    –

  74. says

    A discordant note was sounded by some mormon women during the recent General Conference held by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Discordant to church geriatric leaders, but a tiny sliver of hope for progressives who would like to see the mormons soften their rigid patriarchy.

    …
    As 130 women stood outside the Tabernacle on Saturday afternoon, rejected in their bid to secure tickets for the all-male priesthood session in the nearby Conference Center, dozens of boys and men streamed inside to pick up last-minute tickets to the meeting.

    It felt, said Julia Murphy of Heidelberg, Germany, like “they are more important.”

    Murphy traveled from Europe to join other women — and a couple of dozen men — in the Ordain Women movement, which is pressing for the Utah-based Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to extend the priesthood to women. Only worthy males 12 or older are ordained in the faith. …

    … Mormons heard a more traditional talk about womanhood from apostle D. Todd Christofferson at General Conference earlier Saturday.

    He chastised feminists who might minimize the importance of homemaking.

    “Whatever else a woman may accomplish,” Christofferson said, “her moral influence is no more optimally employed than [in the home].” …

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/56963037-78/women-mormon-church-priesthood.html.csp

  75. says

    From the readers comments section below the Salt Lake Tribune article referenced in #74:

    This herd of LDS feminists makes Brigham’s wives look like fashion models. They need to recruit a better-looking spokeswoman.

    These ladies should be questioning their own personal decision to join and their agreement to support something that they obviously would rather complain about than bother to follow the program.

    So easy to say “just get out” when on the outside looking in. These women most likely have a lot invested in this church, and don’t even fully realize the extent to which they are being mistreated. I understand them being dissatisfied. It is the first step perhaps for them-this type of protest.

    I really have to question their “investment” in the church if they are willing to give it up just to be seen That is what it is really all about because if they really gave a crap about the content of the Priesthood Session, they would have had their little group hanging out at someone;s house, eating treats and kicking back in comfy sweats. [The Priesthood session was broadcast over radio.]

    I cannot possibly comprehend belonging to any organization completely dedicated to suppressing my will and my options.

  76. says

    Making sense of the latest debt ceiling threats:

    Part of the confusion is that the debt ceiling used to be an opportunity for the opposing party to denounce the fiscal irresponsibility of the president. On occasion, but not usually, debt-ceiling hikes have been appended onto budget agreements that were negotiated on their own terms. What’s completely novel is Congress using the threat of a debt default to force the president to make unilateral policy concessions. The conventions of he-said, she-said journalism have allowed this radical development to insinuate itself into the routine backdrop of partisan squabbling.

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/09/debt-ceiling-showdown-the-fight-of-obamas-life.html

  78. says

    The cost of the government shutdown in economic terms, a summary:

    The government shutdown has been estimated to cost $300 million a day at the start, a price tag that will accelerate as it drags on. All told, it could shave about 1.4 percent off of economic output, and If it lasts between three and four weeks, it could cost the economy about $55 billion. Compared to past shutdowns, this is already one of the largest and longest because it isn’t just taking place during weekends and it is impacting virtually every government agency. This racks up costs in a variety of ways: The loss of paychecks for the 800,000 furloughed federal workers will suck about $1 billion a week from the economy. Federal spending will be reduced by about $8 billion, which could reduce GDP by 0.8 percent. Shuttered national parks cost local communities $76 million a day. The government will also lose out on billions in tax revenue. In the end, the shutdown will likely end up increasing the deficit.

    http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/10/07/2741191/debt-ceiling-shutdown-explainer/

  79. David Marjanović says

    Republicans have issued sexist campaign buttons to attack Hillary Clinton. The buttons read:

    …Those just might be obvious enough to backfire.

    Federal spending will be reduced by about $8 billion, which could reduce GDP by 0.8 percent.

    A billion here and a billion there, and pretty soon it adds up to some real money!

    Anyway. Massive link dump ahead. First, what does everyone think of this petition? (Perhaps this should even go to the [Thunderdome].)

    Or of this petition to the Secretaries of the Interior and Agriculture to stop mining, drilling, logging etc. on federal land while the government is shut down?

    Anyway. Petition to House Republicans to bypass Boehner and shut the shutdown down.

    Petition to Congress not to use Keystone XL as blackmail in the negotiations about the debt ceiling.

    Stuart Varney, Faux Noise Business host, is a complete asshole.

  80. Howard Bannister says

    @Kevin

    Saw an article today about an interesting move by Democrats to use a parliamentary maneuver to force a vote on a continuing resolution–i.e., to turn the government back on.

    Some quick footwork required, and it puts pressure on every moderate (ah-hahaha!) Republican who has claimed that they would vote for a CR if Boehner would put it to a vote.

    I’m not sure whether it’s a realistic volley, but by all those gods I don’t believe in, it sounds good to me.

  81. David Marjanović says

    When you vote for Rmoney on the Simpsons, you’re allowed to see his tax returns.

    When you sign the petition against Keystone XL, you get to see what Republicans say they want in exchange for not causing a debt crisis: “So the GOP’s proposal is to pretend that Mitt Romney won.”

    The next Time cover also says it well.

    Better news:

    Kentucky’s success makes a mockery of GOP Obamacare foes

    GOP Biggest Fear Occurring–Republicans Loving Obamacare

    Worse news:

    That last link should have been titled “American paid 1069 $/month for health insurance“. Jesus Haploid Christ.

    Interesting book:

    What do you buy the children of the terrorist who tried to kill your wife?

    And back to bad news:

    The Oceans are Dying: Oxygen is Depleting, Acidity Rising at Fastest Rate in 300,000,000 Years – though note that the mass extinction this article mentions was at the end of the Permian, some 252 million years ago, not at its beginning 298.9 ± 0.15 Ma ago. The Carboniferous-Permian boundary seems to have been pretty much a nonevent.

  82. David Marjanović says

    Obligatory song about living in the Americas: I am not American

    :-) ¡Estadounidenses!

    I’ve always liked Michael Moore’s suggestion of

    THE
    BIG
    ONE    .

    Top comment:

    CanadaDan1971 5 months ago

    Everyone who says its too late to change, everyone says America when referring to the US, blah, blah, blah, when I was kid Pluto was a planet now it’s not.

  83. says

    What do you buy the children of the terrorist who tried to kill your wife?

    *looks confused*

    Toys? Sweets? School supplies? Is this meant to imply that one should treat a child badly because of its parent(s)’ misdeeds? That seems baffling and inhumane to me. I suppose the CIA would say “a drone hit”. :(

  84. Howard Bannister says

    A link to the talking-points-memo article laying out how they would do it.

    The hurdle is finding twenty — TWENTY — Republicans willing to cross the leadership and vote for the thing.

    That’s what it would take to have the government turned back on. Twenty Republicans in the House choosing the good of the country over party discipline.

  85. says

    In other activities organized to balance (negate?) the effect of the LDS (mormon) General Conference held in Salt Lake City, the Underwear Run gets my vote for most amusing. You can view the photo gallery here:
    http://www.sltrib.com/csp/cms/sites/sltrib/pages/slidegallery.csp?cid=56959765

    The article explaining the Underwear Run is here:
    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/56959765-78/run-downtown-lake-salt.html.csp

    Mormons got their magic undies in a bunch over the display, but my take on this is that SLC is loosening up. The photos that include conference goers looking on in shock are excellent, as are all the photos of the underwear-clad runners posing in front of the Temple.

  86. thesandiseattle says

    Well I finally got an e-reader ….and …. my library doesn’t support SONY ereaders! WTF? I did get it to work via the WPS capability of our new modem/router but still mifft SPL doesn’t support it. I am complaining to the IT people, hope it will get some results.

  87. Tethys says

    Cicely
    I am replying here so as not to intrude on whatever battle is occuring in T-dome at the moment. It looks like it would require spoons that I currently don’t have to read all the latest comments.

    Thank you for the kind words and hugs in the Thunderdome. If I am guilty of giving someone too much benefit of the doubt, I can live with that. I wish I could eloquently convey to NT people what it is like to be non NT without it turning into a fight. Hugs and much love for being so consistently awesome.

    ——

    Good news for JAL and kitties!! They really are the bestest things.

  88. Walton says

    Aaarggghhh. Theresa May, our horribly anti-immigrant Home Secretary, has unveiled an even tougher crackdown on immigration in her speech at this year’s Conservative Party conference, including pledging to withdraw from the European Convention on Human Rights – the last lifeline for many people fighting deportation – if the Conservatives win the election in 2015. And she rails against “foreign criminals”, not acknowledging that many of the people the government labels “foreign criminals” are guilty of nothing more than using false papers to obtain work – something many have little choice but to do, since failed asylum-seekers get no cash support and often end up in destitution on the streets.

    Remember, this is a country where the Home Office recently deployed vans in racially diverse areas of London exhorting undocumented immigrants to go home. And where immigration officers have been conducting spot checks outside railway stations – racially profiling people, and often being abusive to those who stand up for their rights. And the Home Office has never acknowledged or apologised for its responsibility for Jackie Nanyonjo’s death. Or taken any steps to repair the broken asylum system and stop deportation of asylum-seekers, including rape survivors, FGM survivors and LGBT people, to dangerous countries.

    It astonishes me that people can’t see how awful and racist the system is.

  89. Walton says

    *looks confused*

    Toys? Sweets? School supplies? Is this meant to imply that one should treat a child badly because of its parent(s)’ misdeeds? That seems baffling and inhumane to me. I suppose the CIA would say “a drone hit”. :(

    QFT.

  90. Pteryxx says

    via Shakes commenters, NYT:

    A Federal Budget Crisis Months in the Making

    To many Americans, the shutdown came out of nowhere. But interviews with a wide array of conservatives show that the confrontation that precipitated the crisis was the outgrowth of a long-running effort to undo the law, the Affordable Care Act, since its passage in 2010 — waged by a galaxy of conservative groups with more money, organized tactics and interconnections than is commonly known.

    With polls showing Americans deeply divided over the law, conservatives believe that the public is behind them. Although the law’s opponents say that shutting down the government was not their objective, the activists anticipated that a shutdown could occur — and worked with members of the Tea Party caucus in Congress who were excited about drawing a red line against a law they despise.

    A defunding “tool kit” created in early September included talking points for the question, “What happens when you shut down the government and you are blamed for it?” The suggested answer was the one House Republicans give today: “We are simply calling to fund the entire government except for the Affordable Care Act/Obamacare.”

  91. Ogvorbis: Apologies Available for All! says

    Feeling down. So, recipe time.

    Chicken with Chianti:

    1/2 of a roasted red sweet pepper, finely diced
    2 tablespoons of fresh tomato, finely diced
    2 cloves garlic, finely diced
    2 tablespoons good olive oil, not diced
    2 tablespoons hard Italian cheese, grated
    1 teaspoon dried basil
    2 tablespoons pine nuts, crushed

    Mix together and put aside.

    Heat

    2 tablespoons good olive oil

    in a large pot — wide bottom but tall (Dutch oven-ish). Add four boneless and skinless chicken breasts and brown lightly on all sides over medium heat. Should take about six minutes. Remove and keep handy.

    Add

    1 more tablespoon good olive oil
    1 large red onion, peeled, topped, and cut in a multitude of thin wedges

    and saute over medium heat until soft but not browned.

    Add

    1.5 cups water
    1.5 cups Chianti wine
    the red pepper pesto you made earlier

    and bring to a boil. Add the chicken breasts, reduce heat to the lowest setting that doesn’t turn the burner off, cover tightly, and simmer for 20 to 30 minutes.

    Add

    40 seedless red grapes, each one sliced in half (doesn’t have to be exact)

    and simmer for a few minutes until the grapes are hot.

    Serve immediately with fresh cracked red pepper, some coarse salt, and (for me, tonight) some steamed green beans and good Italian bread.

    Enjoy with the rest of the bottle of wine. Or more, if needed.

  92. Tethys says

    FRUIT CAKE RECIPE

    1 Cup of Water

    1 Cup of Sugar

    4 Large Eggs

    2 Cups of Dried Fruit

    1 Teaspoon of Baking Soda

    1 Teaspoon of Salt

    1 Cup of Brown Sugar

    Lemon Juice

    Nuts

    1 Bottle of Whiskey (High Quality)

    Sample the whiskey to check for quality. Take a large bowl. Check the

    whiskey again. To be sure it is the highest quality, pour one level cup

    and drink. Repeat. Turn on the electric mixer. Beat one cup of butter

    in a large fluffy bowl. Add one teaspoon of sugar and beat again.

    Make sure the whiskey is still okay. Cry another tup. Turn off the

    mixer.

    Break two leggs and add to the bowl and check in the cup of drier fruit.

    Mix on the turner. If the fried druit gets stuck in the beaterers pry

    it loose with a drewscriver.

    Sample the whiskey to check for tonsisticity. Next, sift two cups of

    sale, or something. Who cares? Check the whiskey. Now sift the lemon

    juice and strain your nuts. Add one table. Spoon. Of sugar or something.

    Whatever you can find. Grease the oven. Turn the cake tin to 350

    degrees. Don’t forget to beat off the turner. Throw the bowl out of the

    window. Check the whiskey again and go to bed.

  93. David Marjanović says

    O hai, Tethys! I knitted you a spoon, and I did not eated it.

    *restocks the hug truck*

    Is this meant to imply that one should treat a child badly because of its parent(s)’ misdeeds?

    I don’t think so! Follow the link and read the summary. :-)

    the Underwear Run gets my vote for most amusing. You can view the photo gallery here:

    Written on one man:

    “gIrls
    I nEEd
    A HUg”

    Really priceless is the policeman looking the other way. :-)

    Written on 2 women:

    “1st WIFE”
    “3rd WifE”

    Written on 2 others (identically):

    “If A MAN
    Can have
    Multiple Wife’s
    Why Can’t I?”

    (I wonder how whoever wrote this pronounces wife’s and wives. I’d have expected those to be distinct, unlike, say, the there/their/they’re problem.)

  94. chigau (違う) says

    Tethys
    Does that recipe work with rum?
    Never mind, there is only one way to really be sure.

  95. kittehserf says

    Tony @54: “::the queer shoop, having just read kittehserf’s @37 quietly wonders what a puddle of squee looks like.”

    Y’know how oil and water on concrete has that rainbow look? Sort of like that, but with blurry images of kitties (or whatever induced the squees) instead.

  96. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    *sigh*

    Well, my happiness was short lived. My mom called me a bit ago saying she was coming over (we’ve been trying to get her out of the house more and here to spend time with Little One) and asking me to come help. I race over. There’s bags of her stuff outside and she’s aruging with Asshole Husband about leaving. He’s wailing and crying about her leaving “forever” and how “she doesn’t care about him” and why doesn’t she just “stop hurting me”. Ugh. Cue flashbacks from my abusive ex pulling the same shit. SO hard to bite my tongue and not start fucking shouting, which would have just amped everything up and make it worse. It takes a bit but we get her and some of her stuff here. She takes time out to calm down and then starts asking me to look up numbers. Numbers for people in a Christian ministry that know Asshole Husbad to come talk to him, make him see reason that’s she’s not hacking the electronics and other things.

    I say okay and do it. I then ask if there’s place she knows of or if I need to start looking up mental institutions to come and take him. I say since he’s a paranoid schizo off his meds for months now, there’s really no other way to get him help. She agrees but he won’t go willingly and the court wouldn’t put him in. *sigh* I’d forgotten the fucking fucked up court again. So, I’m like “What do we do for long term then?” Because we live in the same apartment complex and if Asshole Husband comes knocking on my door I’ll be calling the cops and Roomie, who hasn’t fully moved out yet, runs into him shit is going to go down.

    She’s starts crying and says she’s sorry, that she should be here and nothing I say from that point matters because she goes back home. Now, I’m sitting here crying and wondering if I’m going to get my mother murdered.

    The only other thing is do is move away and keep him from finding us, but we can’t do that until we get her backpay from social security.

    Roomie is coming by tonight to pick up more stuff with his friend after work, which is tense and stressful enough. I just want to crawl into a fucking hole.

    Bonus misery: Little One is learning about lying and taking responsibility for it, right? But then I just had to sit and explain to her that she can’t tell anyone about the plans we are making because that’s dangerous to Grandma. She kept saying “but lying is bad” and my heart broke having to explain how, yes it’s bad but Gramdma getting hurt is worse.

    I hate this. I hate all of it.

  97. kittehserf says

    JAL, all the hugs for you and your mum and the Little One and the kitties. That’s just so foul. :(

  99. The Mellow Monkey: Non-Hypothetical says

    YES! Congratulations, Rawnaeris! I’m so happy for you both!

  101. says

    Sympathy hugs and an open ear offered to JAL, and hugs of congratulation and relief for Rawnaeris!

    (in my mind, there’s a carnival barker offering hugs of all sorts to all comers, and he has my father’s Cockney* accent: “We got all koinds of ‘ugs, we go’ biguns, littluns, comfy ones, and yes we even go’ some careful ones for you vet’rans out there, gawdloveya. Step roi’ up an’ ‘ave y’self a noice ‘ug, don’ be shoy, lots for ev’ryone!”)

    * No really. Not Estuary English, but proper Cockney, born within a mile of the Bells, and whose family had been East Ham fishmongers before being bombed out in the Blitz, and moving to the North London I knew better (where we had a relative who’d married into and taken over an Italian grocery store in Finchley).

  102. says

    JAL, can you explain to Little One about keeping secrets, maybe? It’s a hard thing to do, explaining adult behavior to little ones. *offers hugs*

    Rawnaeris, YAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!

    kittehserf, I like your “puddle of squee” description – it’s shiny!

  103. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    102
    Anne D

    JAL, can you explain to Little One about keeping secrets, maybe?

    But if someone asks, she’d have to lie directly.

    Thanks for the hugs everyone.

  104. says

    Fairly ‘rupt, sick, and been running all over trying to find materials as it turns out that each one won’t work/and the replacement isn’t at any of the nearer stores.

    JAL
    *hugs* and best wishes, Hopefully those payments come in soon.

    Rawneris
    Yay and congrats.

    thesandiseattle
    You’re SOL, I’m afraid. Libraries use a particular proprietary format that a lot of readers can’t handle, and are required to do so by, AFAICT, dumbass copyright laws.

  105. Tethys says

    *adding more hugs to the pile*

    JAL

    Tell little one that if anyone asks her questions about it, she should come get you to answer the questions

  108. says

    I want to thank everyone for the kind words earlier. It meant a lot. As a possible positive (to some) I think it has motivated me to write/blog more, so there is that if anyone is interested. It might help keep my mood up by being productive

  109. cicely says

    Tethys, it’s all right—I’ve had to bail on the [Thunderdome] for now, and “environment”-driven lack-of-spoons is a reasonable explanation for why; so I wouldn’t have seen your reply if you’d put it there, anyways.
    :)
    And you’re pretty consistently awesome, yourself. *hugs*
    Lemon cookie?
    *waving lemon cookie in general vicinity of port*
     
    <Forest Gump voice>
    Sometimes, life is like a box of dog turds….
    </Forest Gump voice>
    …but lemon cookies can help.
    Especially when shared with friends.
    –
    *hugs* for Ogvorbis.
    Lemon cookie?
    –
    *massive hug dump* for JAL. I wish I had useful advice I could give you….
    –
    Ah, hell.
    *dumping most of the lemon cookies into the port*
    Lemon cookies, any/everyone?
    –
    *adding musical accompaniment to Rawnaeris’ happy dance*
    –
    *careful hugs* for Dalillama.
    Barf bucket?
    –

  110. Ogvorbis: Apologies Available for All! says

    cicely @109:

    Lemon cookie?

    Our local Wegmans (no, I am not a paid endorser) has started stocking lemon shortbread cookies in their bakery. And, wow, are they good.

    Right now, a Rock Art Barleywine Ale, and some pumpkin seeds.

  112. Ogvorbis: Apologies Available for All! says

    When I was about six years old, I (apparently (I don’t remember this (but there is a photo))) got hold of a box of lemon cooler cookies (a vanilla wafer coated with lemon-flavoured powdered sugar) and licked the sugar off of every cookie in the box. About 10% of it ended up on my face and my dark blue t-shirt.

  113. says

    My ex-partner and I had a single house in our 11 years together, which we came to call “The Babecave”, riffing off a nickname that survives in my e-mail address – well, in one of them, anyway – and which we envisioned as our superhero secret fortress.

    We took in two foster kids (unofficially), one 15 and kicked out because her mother was abusive after our daughter told her bio-mom that she was bisexual – kicked out a week before Christmas into a Canadian winter, no less – and the other at the time 21 and addicted so badly to crack that for the first six weeks he was with us, he didn’t trust himself to sleep inside, that he wouldn’t steal something and sell it to get more rock. He got past it, got clean, started a roofing company of his own, and now has a bunch of employees as well as a fully-paid-up child support levy, and a wife and two more kids. Now he’s just the ordinary working-class Canadian, smokes a little green, drinks a little beer, watches the hockey on Saturday nights.

    Our (foster) daughter (his sister, actually) now lives near me with my (step)son (this one born to my ex, and raised by her and me and the kids’ dad in two houses), her boyfriend, and her eight-year-old.

    I don’t call them my foster daughter or my stepson, of course. They’re just my kids, all four (daughter and son who have my ex as bio mom, and daughter and son who have me as their foster mom). The daughter who showed up on our doorstep at 15 is the one I’m closest with, the one who nicked me “MC Mama Cait” after a rather silly game of one of those games where you have to do silly things or physical challenges or whatever, can’t remember the name. I rapped something terrible, and she said I was MC Mama Cait, and it kinda stuck between her and I. I call her DJ Jen-Jen in my own e-mails to her. :)

    But as we all know, lesbian families aren’t real families, and we totally know nothing about raising kids. *eyeroll*

  115. says

    Oh, and when the oldest was sleeping outside, we did give him a sleeping bag and a tent, and let him use the bathroom and stuff. he just didn’t want unsupervised access to the house until he could trust himself.

  116. morgan ?! epitheting a metaphor says

    Oh Oggie, I remember Lemon Coolers. They were fabulous. I wish they were still made.

  118. Ogvorbis: Apologies Available for All! says

    morgan @116:

    A company called Niche Foods has brought them back (and a key lime cooler (fabulous)). They aren’t quite the same, but they are good.

  119. Ogvorbis: Apologies Available for All! says

    Ing:

    Supermega hugs with some gooey brownies and some Kraken rum.

  120. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    [Incoming – More Whining]

    So I had to go grocery shopping.

    Boo.

    Then puttting the groceries away.

    Boo.

    Then making dinner.

    Boo.

    Then cleaning.

    Boo.

    Oh, and guess what else I forgot to mention earlier? When I took Little One to school this morning after being gone most last week for being sick, there was no one there. No. One. No signs either. As we’re walking back, we’re confused and I’m worried as fuck. Find out online they are on Fall Break for over a week. Which, Little One loves but just made me scream inside because this is like the worst time for her to being staying home. Considering everything that’s going on and I’m so beyond the end of my rope right now. I was really looking forward to taking time during the day while she’s gone for, you know, ME. And to get shit done so I can keep the house as normal as possible for her.

    With my life it’s really goddamn fucking hard not to look at the sky and ask “Why the fuck do you hate me so much?”. No wonder everyone else is fucking religious.

    [/whine]

    Thank you all for listening. This is really the only place where I can speak out. I can’t do that at home or even with my mom because all the fucking guilt and shit.

  122. Ogvorbis: Apologies Available for All! says

    Dalillama:

    Wait. feeding you sugar on a car trip kept you quiet?

  124. HappyNat says

    I don’t post much, but am a dedicated lurker. Anyway after a fews hours of depressing reading of rape apologists in the tfoot thread and a few Gawker comments, I was refreshed to see They Might Be Giants response to a question on their tumblr:

    lutair: “Would you guys consider yourselves feminist?”

    TMBG: “Yes”

    I’m not surprised, more relieved. John and John have been liberal and pro-science for years, but I’ve seen a lot of “liberal” and “pro-science” folks shitting on women lately. A succinct response to a definition too many people shy away from . . . they haven’t let me down in 25 years. Thought someone might appreciate it as well.

  125. Ogvorbis: Apologies Available for All! says

    G’night, all.

    Heading for bed.

    Trying to keep a regular schedule even though I’m out of work until the Tea Partiers see reason. Or the sun swallows the earth. Whichever.

  127. zyxw says

    New poster here, I had a bit of a rough start today in the Tf00l thread, but I just wanted to stop in and say “Hi” at ogvorbis’ suggestion.

    So…..Hi :)

  129. chigau (違う) says

    zyxw
    Welcome in.
    You had a rocky start but you seem to be OK.
    There’s probably some grog and *hugs* available.

  130. thunk (sigh) says

    Caitiecat:

    Did I mention you sound like awesome parents? cuz you are. Nearly any hordeling would be good at this.

    also… I barely know what to say. I’m having quite a bit more trouble with schoolwork than before, and turning in assignments has been a comedy of errors for today, but I’m still jubilant. ionno why.

    two things: 1) College apps are making me feel horrible–either through forced binary gendering (how I hate that I either have to lie or have everyone accuse me of doing so cause AMAB) or when it’s not forced (what do you mean you can type in a preferred name? and why can I never think of one?) I’ve grown so attached to thunk, but it’s not actually a reasonable real-life name to have.

    2) It almost feels as if I get quite a bit more dysphoric around other women. I just get oh-so envious with the ability to wear clothes that are right without weird looks or your family screaming at you. Especially since there’s a lot of yoga pants and skin-tight jeans, and I obviously don’t have thighs or hips, and the whole penis shit (even though i don’t mind really otherwise). and can I hurry up please and do something about it, anxiety is even more horrible.

  131. says

    Thank you, thunk, that’s very kind. I totally grok your meaning about being around women before transition. For me it was a love/hate thing, and it took actually transitioning to get past it.

    If you’re looking for a name, the bit of advice I usually suggest is to look at the list of names from the non-assigned gender that were popular in a five-year span around your birth; this will result in a name that suits your place in the nymmery history, or whatever it should be properly called. Or, you can look down the list to find names that weren’t as popular, but still suit the time.

    All of that depends on whether you intend to live “stealthy” if/when you transition; if you do, then picking the right decade of name will help. If you don’t, then pick what makes you happy. The day you do, I, and I bet everyone else around here, would be happy to use the one you pick to refer to you. And my dear, that is a pretty awesome day, believe me. :)

    There’s a lot about the shit leading up to transition that sucks. And there’s frequently a bit of trauma around the transition itself, with friends/family taking their stances on whether they will ‘permit’ you to make the change you need. Just always remember it’s your body, your life, not theirs, and you’re the only one you have to make happy with it.

    If you’re wanting someone to vent to who gets it, I definitely do, even if it was an absurd two decades ago that I actually transitioned. It’s very hard to believe that number. In fact, it’s 21 years next month. I’m closing up on having spent half my life as me. I’ll like that day very much, in about five years. :)

  132. zyxw says

    Thanks for the grog and virtual non-threatening and totally appropriate hugs.

    BTW, is there a way to insert gifs into comments? Because grumpycat.

  133. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Thank you for the kind words and hugs in the Thunderdome. If I am guilty of giving someone too much benefit of the doubt, I can live with that. I wish I could eloquently convey to NT people what it is like to be non NT without it turning into a fight. Hugs and much love for being so consistently awesome.

    …damnit, I knew it was too good to be true.

  135. says

    Work if fine it just had a problem that was solved and shouldn’t be a problem anymore turn into a clusterfuck between everyone who has to stick their hands into it to “help” (read, cast blame)./ That and the frustration that our quality control person is literally too stupid to open e-mail attachments.

  137. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    105
    Tethys

    *adding more hugs to the pile*

    JAL

    Tell little one that if anyone asks her questions about it, she should come get you to answer the questions

    Damn, that’s good. Thank you. Wish I had thought of that. But on the other hand, I’m like, what if Asshole Husband asks and gets suspicious about asking me? She is not going around him but trying to come up with a way to deal with as many scenarios as possible so Little One doesn’t slip, which would cause horrible emotional distress alone given what would happen if the info got back to Asshole Husband.

    *sigh*

    It’s just all so impossible. And unfair.

  138. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    Oh, dammnit. Does my #133 sound harsh? It’s not meant to be and I’m sorry if it is. I had the link handy and was just posting it for those that don’t keep up with Thunderdome in general and for Azkyroth to look at for themselves if they wanted too. But given the discussion, I’m now second guessing my choice of words.

    I’m sorry.

  140. Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought says

    Sympathy hugs and an open ear offered to JAL, and hugs of congratulation and relief for Rawnaeris!

    Seconded.
    ————
    CaitieCat,
    You are a great person.
    When I read how you and so many other Hordelings (I’d name names, but I’m afraid I’ll forget someone) help people, I’m humbled and awed by your generosity.
    ———–
    Hello, zyxw!
    ———–
    Ing,
    At least one of the people (and probably the greatest nuisance) causing your minor problem turning into a clusterfuck was a boss-type coming in to solve your problems with hir strong leadership and experience?

  141. Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought says

    sgbm,

    I’m going to take this as your way of expressing you missed us too.

  142. strange gods before me ॐ says

    I would take

    Hello! and thanks, carlie, chigau, David, Esteleth, Forelle, Kevin, opposablethumbs, and anybody I missed. Signs of the impending Hugularity are detailed in Thunderdome.

    to be my way of saying I missed you. Also

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/09/21/thunderdome-35/comment-page-2/#comment-700383Hello! and thanks, AE, Beatrice, cm, David, Dhorvath, dysomniak, Hekuni Cat, Nick, Tony, and anybody I missed. It’s good to see all of you.

    And it is good to see all of you.

  143. says

    thunk @130

    Did I mention you sound like awesome parents? cuz you are. Nearly any hordeling would be good at this.

    also… I barely know what to say. I’m having quite a bit more trouble with schoolwork than before, and turning in assignments has been a comedy of errors for today, but I’m still jubilant. ionno why.

    two things: 1) College apps are making me feel horrible–either through forced binary gendering (how I hate that I either have to lie or have everyone accuse me of doing so cause AMAB) or when it’s not forced (what do you mean you can type in a preferred name? and why can I never think of one?) I’ve grown so attached to thunk, but it’s not actually a reasonable real-life name to have.

    Yeah, the million ways this world demands you closet yourself in the name of the tyranny of “legal name” sucks. I’ve had to closet myself a hell of a lot more after my big anti-trans discrimination and the near ensuing homelessness and it’s fucking killing me to lie day in and day out.

    On preferred name, I originally went with something easy for people, a subtle changing of my given name that would be easy for them to run with. Instead I got a lot of people calling me by a name I hate and which was never even my “legal name”. Eventually I decided “fuck it” and went with the name I really wanted, one I had used in gaming profiles and the like. Not only has it gone over pretty fucking well, but nobody manages to mangle it into some fucking boy’s name even if they have to ask me to spell it.

    So in short, go with what your heart says and fuck this broken fucking society and the bullshit it’ll try and sell you about a “proper name”.

    2) It almost feels as if I get quite a bit more dysphoric around other women. I just get oh-so envious with the ability to wear clothes that are right without weird looks or your family screaming at you. Especially since there’s a lot of yoga pants and skin-tight jeans, and I obviously don’t have thighs or hips, and the whole penis shit (even though i don’t mind really otherwise). and can I hurry up please and do something about it, anxiety is even more horrible.

    I don’t know your intentions with regards to transition, but magic boob pills are magic. And it’s taken a year of being on them but I’ve seen for myself that it’s true. Just last week, I looked at myself in the mirror (which is something I’ve almost universally avoided) and for the first time literally ever I actually felt good about the body I saw in it. I actually fill shirts like my body should and I can wear the agendered shit I like without feeling like I’m dressing in drag to do so. And I never would have believed that my particular body shape would ever look halfway decent as my correct gender.

    In short, there is a long uncomfortable period ahead of you, but there’s a point where you’ll look back and things will actually feel good.

    And if one is willing to look into shall we say… alternative forms of procurement, the country of Vanautu and helpful Mr. Internet is willing to ship them to you, prescription-free.

  144. Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought says

    I know
    but

    I’m just going to give up on my career of inserting amusing snarky remarks. It was a short-lived one. Oh well.

  146. strange gods before me ॐ says

    Oh! I thought you had actually just overlooked those comments. But yeah, no, my way of saying “I missed you” is really to say “I missed you! Good to see you!” and to distribute hugs. Of which there remains some surplus.

  147. Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought says

    Of which there remains some surplus.

    Appreciated.

  148. Ogvorbis: Apologies Available for All! says

    Good whatever-the-fuck-day-of-the-week-this-is to all.

    TRIGGER WARNING — ABUSE

    I think it may have been a while since I told anyone this (actually, not sure if I’ve ever told anyone here this) but I really do hate nightmares. I have a scoutmare and then lie awake in bed probing the memory, poking at it the same way I do when I have a sore in my mouth, or a tooth with changed topography. And I’m remembering more and more and more of what the asshole said to me during the rapes. His justifications. His insults. His expressions of desire.

    ————

    TRIGGER WARNING — SELF PITY

    And being out of work means that I am spending more time with time to think and probe those memories. I don’t think I’m spiraling down but I’m orbiting at the Schwarzchild Radius, right at the edge. Between the memories and the temper-tantrum furlough things are really wonky.

    ———–

    Wife and I went to the farmer’s market yesterday. I got a 1/2 peck of red jalapeno peppers (which I will be processing and freezing today), some serrano peppers, a 1/2 peck of sweet red peppers (some of which have already been roasted and are sitting in olive oil in the fridge), some really nice tomatoes, and a big red onion (used in the Chicken Chianti last night).

    Tonight, we will have nachos (with roasted chicken from a church supper on Sunday (the nephew of the little old lady next door gives us coupons for the dinner every year and the chicken is excellent) and home made salsa, plus corn and black beans).

  149. opposablethumbs says

    Hope you stay outside that radius, Ogvorbis.

    Transatlantic e-hugs to thunk, if acceptable.

    A bit ‘rupt, but happy conga rats to Rawnaeris re jobs and to Giliell re interpreter work and hugs of whichever type is OK for you to all those dealing with bad money and family shit going on.

  150. says

    David M. @93

    “If A MAN
    Can have
    Multiple Wife’s
    Why Can’t I?”

    (I wonder how whoever wrote this pronounces wife’s and wives. I’d have expected those to be distinct, unlike, say, the there/their/they’re problem.)

    Utah claims to have an excellent educational system, but it is actually underfunded, with many levels of that system being apt to polish the turd, as they say.

    It’s a mormon thing, to paint a happy face on crap … and then to believe the happy face.

    I can’t tell you how many times I have despaired over the spelling and grammar skills of adult writers in writing workshops I have attended. Judging writing contests in the morridor is an exercise in masochism.

    And of course there/their/they’re is simply beyond their comprehension. They’re insulted to red-in-the-face and sputtering level if you point out that there are errors like that in their manuscripts. How dare you focus on such petty issues while ignoring the deeply spiritual content of …. whatever.

    Okay, now I’m slipping into the despair mode, so I’m off to read about more pleasant things, like the government shutdown.

  151. thunk (sigh) says

    awww thanks everyone!

    Apology accepted, Chas, opposablethumbs you are awesome too.

    Cerberus: *hugs*

    I don’t know your intentions with regards to transition, but magial boob pills are magic. And it’s taken a year of being on them but I’ve seen for myself that it’s true. Just last week, I looked at myself in the mirror (which is something I’ve almost universally avoided) and for the first time literally ever I actually felt good about the body I saw in it. I actually fill shirts like my body should and I can wear the agendered shit I like without feeling like I’m dressing in drag to do so. And I never would have believed that my particular body shape would ever look halfway decent as my correct gender.

    which is something that I totally need to do, but then anxiety kicks in, and I end up not knowing enough about the gatekeeping, not being able to go search for trans-friendly doctors or even effing clothes. So while you’ve all helped, I don’t know where to begin with this–let alone convince anyone of myself through all of this cause my own brain’s shutting me down…

    And thunk can be a name? well damn. That would be outing myself, but anyone with google can do that already.

  152. says

    This is a follow up to the story of a Nebraska teen who was denied an abortion by the courts. Old enough to have a baby and be a mother, but not old enough to have an abortion?

    The Nebraska Supreme Court ruled last week that a 16-year-old foster child who wishes to terminate a pregnancy cannot have an abortion. The problem, the court majority ruled, is that the girl is “not sufficiently mature” enough to make an informed decision about abortion.

    She is, however, apparently “sufficiently mature” to become a mother. Katy Waldman’s report on this summarized the case very well.

    The teenager, identified in the court ruling as Anonymous 5, showed evidence of mature reasoning at a confidential hearing. She worried that she didn’t have the financial resources to support a child or to be “the right mom that I would like to be right now.” Yet district judge Peter C. Bataillon, whom the Raw Story reports once served on the committee for an Omaha anti-abortion group, disagreed, and the Supreme Court upheld his ruling in a split vote of 5-2.

    How does something like this happen? Nebraska is one of eight states that require girls 17 or younger to obtain written, notarized consent from a parent or guardian before undergoing an abortion…. Since Anonymous 5 is a ward of the State Department of Health and Human Services—she actually requested the abortion at the confidential hearing dissolving the parental rights of her biological mother and father, who were physically abusive—she doesn’t have anyone to grant her consent. “She is in legal limbo—a quandary of the Legislature’s making,” wrote Judge William Connolly in his Supreme Court minority opinion.

    The abused teenager did not want to get her foster parents involved — they’re reportedly deeply religious, and she risked losing her home if they found out about her pregnancy — and couldn’t turn to her birth parents. So she was forced to turn to a Nebraska judge who, you guessed it, opposes reproductive rights and told Anonymous 5 she’s trying to “kill the child inside of you.”…

    OMG. That girl so desperately needs objective, legal, tolerant help. She is demonstrating mature judgment, while the rest of the adults around her are acting like children, like ignorant children.

    Maddow Blog link.

  153. pHred says

    So – after making an ass of myself in Thunderdome (which name still triggers Tina Turner singing in my head) I think I will retreat to trying to learn how to comment in the Lounge.

    I was involved in a learning communities program for incoming freshmen a couple of years ago and during a welcome ceremony I was horrified that someone I thought was relatively together (an associate dean at the time too) started off by saying “will all of the boys stand up? Now will all the girls stand up?” When she got around to asking people to stand up based on the region of the country they were from or the clubs they were in – that worked, but the boy/girl thing was awful! I pointed out that this was a problem – but I don’t know that anyone actually listened to me, but I am pretty sure they haven’t repeated the ceremony the same way (probably due to time constraints rather than any other motivation). I would be nice if schools were better at this but most of the admin don’t even get that there is an issue here.

  154. says

    Walton may be interested in this article in The New York Review of Books. In the USA, we do not just mistreat immigrants and adult prisoners, we also mistreat juveniles who end up incarcerated.

    …
    The BJS has just released a third edition of its National Inmate Survey (NIS), which covers prisons and jails, and a second edition of its National Survey of Youth in Custody (NSYC). These studies confirm some of the most important findings from earlier surveys—among others, the still poorly understood fact that an extraordinary number of female inmates and guards commit sexual violence. They also reveal new aspects of a variety of problems, including (1) the appalling (though, from state to state, dramatically uneven) prevalence of sexual misconduct by staff members in juvenile detention facilities; (2) the enormous and disproportionate number of mentally ill inmates who are abused sexually; and (3) the frequent occurrence of sexual assault in military detention facilities. …

    It’s all bad, but the abuse of juveniles really makes me angry. These are young people who may have a chance to change their behavior and they are being denied that chance. It is so ugly, so bad, to abuse young people. It is not in anyone’s best interest.

  155. says

    Moments of Mormon Madness, lying and financial shenanigans categories. The LDS church has long repeated the claim that it’s leaders are volunteers and that its clergy is a “lay clergy” that serves without compensation. This is a lie.

    Excerpts from http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1045527 (info provided by Steve Benson, an ex-mormon, and the grandson of a former mormon prophet):

    The $1.2 million condominium at 40 N. State that is home to the president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will be exempt from property taxes, Salt Lake County commissioners ruled Tuesday.

    [Figures from] Canada, where finances for non-profits have to be reported:

    Compensation: In 2009, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Canada had 248 part-time workers who earned a total of $1,807,140 for the collective. They also had 184 full-time workers who split a total of $15,237,479, of those full-time workers, two of them made between $80,000-$119,999; six of them made between $120,000-$159,999; and two others made between $160,000-$199,999.

    The Prophet is automatically chairman of the board of all 14 corporations [a reference to the 14 for-profit organizations run by the LDS church], with various apostles sitting on the boards of various corporations …. They are paid as boards of directors both an amount in money as well as in stock.

    In addition to that, all of the Quorum of the Twelve’s children get free educations at BYU.

    Church presidents have personally benefited from Church finances by simply canceling their indebtedness to Church funds.

  156. cicely says

    Oooh! Lemon cooler cookies! I remember them well—powdered sugar everywhere!
    –
    Ingdigo Jump, I’m all outta lemon cookies *burp*, but can I interest you in a *hug* to try to diminish the nasty taste of Hateful Job?
    –
    *hugs* for JAL.
    Religion: someOne to thank and someOne to blame, all in one package.
    ‘Course, it’s the Unadvertised Specials and the Small Print that’ll getcha.
    –
    Hi, HappyNat, and welcome to delurkerdom!
    :)
    –
    Hi, zyxw welcome in!
    –
    *hugs* for thunk. We’re always listening.
     
    We’re like the Government, that way.
    Only less intrusively, and with compassion.
    –
    Azkyroth:

    Thank you for the kind words and hugs in the Thunderdome. If I am guilty of giving someone too much benefit of the doubt, I can live with that. I wish I could eloquently convey to NT people what it is like to be non NT without it turning into a fight. Hugs and much love for being so consistently awesome.

    …damnit, I knew it was too good to be true.

    ?????
    Or is this a [Thunderdome] matter?
    –

  158. says

    Mormon Moments of Madness, ponzi scheme and fraud category:

    … According to charging documents, the Smiths ran a business called Newport Financial that bought the contracts of furniture customers who could not qualify for traditional financing. The Smiths understated the default rate of the furniture customers and lied about the solvency of the company, which operated only with new investor money, the documents state. …

    The scheme allegedly lasted from September 2005 through August 2009.

    During that time, Michael Smith served as first counselor in the University LDS Church 2nd Stake presidency in Salt Lake City, which was dissolved in April 2011 during organizational changes. Several of the victims met the Smiths through relatives, but at least one attended church with Michael Smith, investigators said. …

    Letters from other victims asked the judge for leniency and for the Smiths to not be incarcerated so they could work to repay the restitution. Chow asked in his letter that Michael Smith, his “life-long friend,” not to be sentenced to jail. … [Oh, please. Jesus Haploid Christ, they are forgiving the Smiths because they are fellow mormons!?]

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/56968763-78/smith-business-jail-michael.html.csp

    From the readers comments section:

    Rob a bank and you will go to the big house for a long time.
    Rob your fellow members and Utah citizens? One year and 36 months probation.

    Weigh the risk factors. I doubt these schemes will end any time soon.

    Are LDS members in “good standing” perpetrating the largest numbers of these crimes in Utah, or not.

    Answer: They are. That is why the LDS church is now admonishing their members about investment fraud….

    … if you rob them with the promise of eternal lives in return for their adoration and 10% of their income, you can have Constitutional immunity and not go to jail at all.

  159. says

    Shady Republican and Supreme Court Justice Scalia is looking for more ways to help his friends eat all the pie.

    The Supreme Court’s consideration Tuesday of a bid by the Republican National Committee to make it easier for wealthy individuals to influence elections fixated on a series of related hypotheticals, all involving schemes enabling the very rich to lavish money on their favorite party or candidates. In Justice Elena Kagan’s version, activists set up literally hundreds of shell organizations, each of which promises to work to elect like-minded candidates in the five most contested U.S. Senate races. A donor then makes a maximum-dollar donation to each of these shell groups, effectively laundering hundreds of thousands of dollars to each of these five grateful candidates. Thus, although federal law bans massive dollar donations to individual candidates in order to prevent corruption, Kagan’s hypothetical offers a way around that law.

    And if the Supreme Court gives the GOP what it is asking for, this money laundering scheme will almost certainly be legal. …

    In the past, less conservative Supreme Courts have allowed … caps to exist, citing the government’s interest in preventing corruption. As Kagan’s hypothetical suggests, it is very easy to launder money from PACs or party organizations to benefit individual candidates. So, without these limits, quid pro quo deals where a donor launders hundreds of thousands of dollars to aide a single candidate in return for some policy consideration will be very easy to strike.

    Yet, as Justice Antonin Scalia eagerly points out, there’s a problem with this rationale. Thanks to the five Republican justices’ decision in Citizens United, there’s now a much easier — and perfectly legal way — for millionaires and billionaires to do expensive favors for candidates. Though massive gifts directly to candidates and parties remain illegal after Citizens United, wealthy donors can give as much money as they want to Super PACs and other so-called “independent” organizations backing one candidate or another.

    If Sheldon Adelson can already spend $150 million to put his favorite Republican candidates in office, what’s so bad about him laundering some of that money to these candidates in the way Justice Kagan laid out?

    It’s a neat trick. First Scalia, along with his four fellow Republicans, sign onto a Supreme Court opinion holding that “independent expenditures, including those made by corporations, do not give rise to corruption or the appearance of corruption.” Having enshrined this doubtful proposition into law, Scalia now points out that money given directly to parties isn’t any more corrupting that money given to super PACs. And Scalia is right! …

    Scalia’s path is the path to campaign finance anarchy, and it ends with Sheldon Adelson writing massive checks directly to Republican candidates.

    http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/10/08/2750331/the-shady-trick-justice-scalia-plans-to-use-to-inject-even-more-big-money-into-elections/

  160. says

    thunk @151

    Well… this advice should be taken with a gram of salt seeing as how it’s not the advice of a licensed endocrinologist and safer blah blah blah, but it’s the advice given to me by another transwoman and served both her and me well.

    The magical land of Vanautu has a store. For the regimen, you need an anti-androgen (will cause infertility, can cause liver problems if you overdose, and you’ll need to avoid foods rich with potassium and might need to up your salt intake if you get light-headed, especially in the beginning, as it could cause some nasty cardiac events because it’s main usage is actually to treat hypokalaemia or low blood potassium).

    Best one to use is this one: Spirotone 100. No more than 2 pills a day maximum (200 mg a day). I’d recommend starting on 1 and a half pills to start with and seeing how your body reacts.

    This is super important to keep an eye on and the pills cause a bit of drowsiness so it’s often ideal to take them at night, but you should take all your pills in the morning to start so you can keep an eye on your body’s reactions and try and make sure any side-effects are being well-watched as the spirotone specifically is a bit dangerous. If you get pains in your stomach/side of stomach region, I’d recommend lowering the dose down so that the pain doesn’t occur.

    I’m currently on a regimen of 1 and a half pills one day, two pills the next, alternating back and forth and my friend is on two a day so what is right for you will vary but never go over two a day.

    The other thing you’ll need is estrogen. My recommendation is this one. The maximum for these is 3 a day or a total of 6 mg a day. My friend recommended starting with only 1 per day for about a week and then increasing to 2 for another week and then doing 3 a week after that and on. It’s worked out pretty well for both of us and luckily there are less risks and side effects with these (though you still want to be careful).

    The price point of all of it makes one want to cry, but it can be a way to fill the gap until you jump through the hoops and it can make a hell of a convincing argument to the gatekeepers that you are serious about this transition thing when you let them know you’re already transitioning and want to start doing it more legally and safely.

    Important notes to make here. This advice is pretty much illegal as is this method of acquiring medication. It’s also not 100% safe and self-medicating is rarely ideal and full of a lot of danger as you can’t just check in with your doctor about side effects or bad reactions to the drugs. And it’s going to be way more expensive than a method that can get you a prescription.

    On that note, for prescriptions and cheaper care leading to meds… if you live in the states, my friend swears by Planned Parenthood and with the new ACA things rolling down the track, there are some states who are including trans* health care with the low-income state-given plan (I hear that’s true in CA at least) so those might be worth looking into. If you are in the EU, a bunch of those countries have trans-inclusive options on the state health care which would be way more legal and ideal than going this route.

    So yeah, if you want any other advice on this shit or just a sympathetic voice or somebody to just be there when you need or more ideally, help you out with navigating whatever bullshit of where you are is so you can feel less anxious and do it the nice legal, not risking an accidental overdose way, my email is cerberussadlyno AT gmail DOT com.

    And I for one think thunk is a fine name, but then, I went with naming myself after a comic book character so take that with an appropriate grain of salt.

  161. says

    I just know some of the geeks among us want to discuss the problems of the healthcare.gov website. Okay, maybe most of us want to ignore the issue and just hope it goes away, but some geeks really are diagnosing the problem(s). They have made some good points.

    … healthcare.gov’s biggest problems are most likely not in the front-end code of the site’s Web pages, but in the back-end, server-side code that handles—or doesn’t handle—the registration process, which no one can see. Consequently, I would be skeptical of any outside claim to have identified the problem with the site. Bugs rarely manifest in obvious forms, often cascading and metamorphizing into seemingly different issues entirely, and one visible bug usually masks others.

    There are a few clues, however. The site’s front end (the actual Web pages and bits of script) doesn’t look too bad, but it is not coping well with whatever scaling issues the back end (account storage, database lookups, etc.) is having. I tried to sign up for the federal marketplace six days after rollout. The site claimed to be working, but after I started the registration process, I sat on a “Please Wait” page for 10 minutes before being redirected to an error page:

    “Sorry, we can’t find that page on HealthCare.gov.”

    Except that wasn’t the problem, since the error message immediately below read:

    “Error from: https%3A//www.healthcare.gov/oberr.cgi%3Fstatus%253D500%2520errmsg%253DErrEngineDown%23signUpStepOne.”

    To translate, that’s an Oracle database complaining that it can’t do a signup because its “engine” server is down. …

  162. says

    pHred @153

    Ugh, I absolutely despise how most schools and educational facilities do gendered shit. I had a thing this summer where I was working for a summer camp at various schools and we had to divide out for boys and girls to the bathrooms, which of course are either girls or boys and usually in different spots. And there were absolutely no gender neutral options that were available. I brought up the issue to my bosses, trying to be as careful as possible not to out myself in the meantime and they acknowledged that it wasn’t ideal but that they were powerless to change it as they only had access to the bathrooms offered by the school.

    I tried to include some indication in my spiel to acknowledge how those outside the binary were screwed, but that just became sad in my last week when I actually did have a poor intersex kid in the class who ended up only feeling comfortable going to the bathroom when no one else was and didn’t seem all that pleased about going to the one to his assigned at birth gender. It was heart-breaking in the extreme and the worst thing about it was the parent was definitely not interested in acknowledging it so the one time I tried to find an ideal situation with her I ended up just dropping it quickly and leaving the poor kid to their fate (I know, bad Cerberus, but I really couldn’t afford outing myself by pushing the issue).

    In short, fuck that childhood gendered crap.

  163. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    It starts here. Read for yourself.

    Oh, that’s the context. Okay then. :)

    Oh, dammnit. Does my #133 sound harsh? It’s not meant to be and I’m sorry if it is. I had the link handy and was just posting it for those that don’t keep up with Thunderdome in general and for Azkyroth to look at for themselves if they wanted too. But given the discussion, I’m now second guessing my choice of words.

    Nah.

  164. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    163
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    Nah.

    *whew*

    Since I’m a party in that discussion, I just wanted to sound as neutral as possible. Tehys is talking about their experience and didn’t want to come off as disagreeing or anything with her comment because my 133 wasn’t a comment on her comment. If that makes sense.

    My brain apparently couldn’t come up with the word “Context” yesterday, so next time I’ll just call the link that. Sounds like a smarter solution to me.

  165. thunk (sigh) says

    ahhh thanks!

    Obviously, I would try my best to do it the official way. (and yeah I’m in the states)

    And I’m also worried about how people would react to my nym (the resume problem), and probably would end up picking a more typical name.

    (and maybe clear out the plate of shit I am just ignoring cuz I can’t cope with it)

  166. says

    At least one of the people (and probably the greatest nuisance) causing your minor problem turning into a clusterfuck was a boss-type coming in to solve your problems with hir strong leadership and experience?

    My supervisor is pretty good and I like her even when I disagree. Such as this instance where I couldn’t get her to accept the evidence that the problem was due to a product defect and not my mistake. The real problem is that about 4 months ago we had a “we’re going to run the lab like a business ” and that has a) turned every single thing into an inefficient cluster fuck and b) emboldened every asshole with a modicum of power to become a super sayian asshole (regular asshole but stronger and bleached blond)

  167. says

    thunk @165

    You do realize your chosen legal and professional name (ie the shit you put on resumes and answer to at work) doesn’t have to be your real name (what you are known to your friends and family), right?

    I’ve got one name that I plan to use as my legal name when I change it and use professionally and then I’ve got the awesome name that is what I actually want to be called by. When I do the legal name change, I’ll probably put it as my middle name so I can just say that I go by my middle name.

    And more hugs, if you need a second pair of eyes to help you navigating the legal shit where you at, drop me a line and I’ll try and help out where I can. I’ve got my own research to do about getting my ACA trans-inclusive health care, so I’m definitely willing to lend a hand.

  168. says

    thunk

    Best of luck.

    I’ve considered changing my name several times, mostly to strings that…well, aren’t usually names. [Various options have include “Atra Vita” or “Naloxone Dodecanoate”]. I know people who have renamed themselves after beverages and foods.

    Maybe it’s just MIT, but afaik there’s quite a few people with names even more nontraditional than “thunk” around here.

    *hugs* offered

  169. thunk (sigh) says

    nightshadequeen:

    Maybe it’s just MIT, but afaik there’s quite a few people with names even more nontraditional than “thunk” around here.

    Given that I’m applying there (and have a decent shot at acceptance, that’s hopeful.

  171. Esteleth, statistically significant to p ≤ 0.001 says

    Hmpth. Wrote a lengthy comment, then it didn’t post.

    Do not have the energy to recreate. Whatever.

  172. ImaginesABeach says

    Ogvorbis – did you find out if you can collect unemployment until called back?

    Husband has been called back (apparently every last DOD employee is essential) which means that he cannot collect unemployment because he is working, but he can’t get paid for working until after the shutdown AND he cannot use this time to work for his occasional employer who was willing to offer him some hours during the shutdown.

  173. Pteryxx says

    threadrupt, and staying away, but I wanted to warn y’all about a multistate salmonella outbreak – possibly drug-resistant, natch – being tracked by reporters, of course, since the CDC is Shutdown’d.

    http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/10/shutdown-salmonella/

    Late-breaking news, and I’ll update as I find out more: While the government is shut down, with food-safety personnel and disease detectives sent home and forbidden to work, a major foodborne-illness outbreak has begun. This evening, the Food Safety and Inspection Service of the US Department of Agriculture announced that “an estimated 278 illnesses … reported in 18 states” have been caused by chicken contaminated with Salmonella Heidelberg and possibly produced by the firm Foster Farms.

    […]

    That means that the lab work and molecular detection that can link far-apart cases and define the size and seriousness of outbreaks are not happening. At the CDC, which operates the national foodborne-detection services FoodNet and PulseNet, scientists couldn’t work on this if they wanted to; they have been locked out of their offices, lab and emails. (At a conference I attended last week, 10 percent of the speakers did not show up because they were CDC personnel and risked being fired if they traveled even voluntarily.)

    […]

    Updates, Oct. 8:

    Taylor Dobbs, an excellent reporter at Vermont Public Radio, has identified the 18 states where cases have been found: Arizona, Arkansas, Alaska, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Michigan, Nevada, North Carolina, Oregon, Texas, Utah, Washington, Wisconsin. Big thanks to him for sharing his results.

  174. Esteleth, statistically significant to p ≤ 0.001 says

    So here’s been my day:

    -Take medical form to nursing school UHS. They examine the form, say they’re incomplete – proof of immunity for varicella is missing. When was I vaccinated? I’ve had it, I reply – never vaccinated. In the spring of 1988. They demand proof. As in medical-records proof, not word-of-parents proof.
    -I rack my brain, spend a fair amount of time with the yellow pages of small-town four-states-away, and call my old pediatrician.
    -My old pediatrician is no longer practicing! Because of course he isn’t!
    -He left his practice to someone else, and the records have been maintained. Hooray! A helpful receptionist agrees to dig through them and tell me if there’s a note of me having had varicella.
    -“The records begin in 1991. There is a note that you had it in ’88, but that’s just a note.”
    -Call the parents. They say, “Yes, we got a new pediatrician in ’91.” Who was the old one? Uh…some guy…
    -“In any case, we knew what the chicken pox was. So we didn’t bother taking you in.”
    -Call University Health Services. Explain the situation. “Well, you’ll just have to get a titer. Quite straightforward.”
    -“Oh, your insurance doesn’t cover that. You’ll have to pay for the titer out-of-pocket.”

    ARGH.

  175. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    173
    Pteryxx

    Holy fuck, thank you. I have some Fosters Farm chicken in my freezer and live in AZ.

    >.<

    Well, I couldn't get much food last time (I needed to get cat food and litter) so I have to go back to the store anyways…

  176. says

    Cross posted from the Roy Zimmerman thread, news that may interest Ogvorbis as it contains more threats to Park Rangers (along with striking a Godwin note):

    Tea Party news from Arizona, compares Obama to Hitler.

    Think Progress link.

    Arizona State Rep. Brenda Barton (R) compared President Barack Obama to Adolf Hitler in a Facebook post Monday criticizing the rangers in the shuttered National Park Service for keeping the parks closed. She called on rogue “Constitutional Sheriffs” to arrest park service rangers for doing their jobs.

    Barton initially posted, urging citizens to encourage their local sheriffs to consider “revoking the arrest powers (that they granted in the first place) to federal agents operating within their county.” … But in a second posting, Barton minced no words, calling Obama “De Fuhrer [sic]” and urging local sheriffs to arrest park rangers who enforce rules keeping people out of National Parks that are closed due to the federal government shutdown.

    It’s quite a story. Barton, a right-wing state lawmaker who thinks she knows how to spell Hitler references, is angry about the government shutdown affecting national parks. From there, she somehow convinced herself that the president is “dictating beyond his authority.” How? No one knows. Does she realize it was lawmakers from her own party that are responsible for the shutdown? Apparently not.

    Asked about her online comments, Barton told the Arizona Capitol Times, “It’s not just the death camps. (Hitler) started in the communities, with national health care and gun control. You better read your history. Germany started with national health care and gun control before any of that other stuff happened. And Hitler was elected by a majority of people.”…

    Maddow Blog link. Check out the photo of Baron. It’s priceless.

    Barton is listed as an Apostolic Christian, whatever that is, on Vote Smart’s website.

  178. says

    That sounds awful, Esteleth. I will offer some bent and wobbly hugs which are much like she who offers them: they aren’t pretty, but they get the job done. :)

    Me, I had a doctor’s appt at 3 today. The bus outside my door comes at 2:30, and gets me to the station (where I can catch the second bus to my doctor’s) twelve minutes later, and the second bus comes fifteen minutes from my initial point, so I have a three minute window. And the platforms are right beside each other in the station, even, so it’s not like I even have to hobble very far.

    Except when the first bus has a new driver, who either didn’t pay attention or just got flustered when there was the same construction on the same road that it’s been for seven months, with a well-used detour.

    So he’s ten minutes late to me (I’ve already missed the connection), and then ends up driving twice through the bus station, both times the wrong way down one-way lanes, before finally ending up where he was supposed to have been twenty minutes earlier.

    I get the connecting bus, but of course I’m half an hour late, because that’s the frequency of the second bus. Since it’s an annual checkup, I am now too late to get the checkup done, and we have to reschedule. Which is a pain, because bus tickets are not free, and I am poor. But she makes lemonade out of it by suggesting I get the bloodwork and x-ray I’m supposed to have at the lab nearby, so I won’t have completely wasted my bus tickets. I really do like my doctor, she’s kinda awesome in a bunch of ways.

    So I go through the bloodwork and the EKG and the eyeball-x-ray (so I can have an MRI); my former profession when I was in the Canadian Forces was as a communicator, including radio tech work and line-laying and -maintenance work. All of which involve the use of wirecutters, and occasionally grinding wheels and such.

    The disability payments I’m applying for (why I’m having the checkup) from the government need various documentation, like a recent MRI. I’ve only ever had CT scans, but they had to check my eyes to make sure I’d never gotten any little bits of ferrous metal in them from my work history, for reasons which I did not ask and would prefer not to be told, thanks, cause I’m really squeamish and I don’t need to have my eye-wibbly poked at when I’ve got to have this MRI later. So please don’t tell me why they need to be sure about this. :)

    In all, then, I left the apartment at 1430, and didn’t get back til nearly 18h. 3.5 hours, near enough, and two bus tickets. And I’m beat. I really lose track, sometimes, of how much my disability slows me down and makes my life more difficult. It is, unfortunately, depressing as hell.

    On the up side, I might be playing futsal this winter with an old ladies’ league – well, it’s the bottom rung of the local women’s futsal scene, four teams who probably have an average age each of 35, and it’s only that young because several of us have brought daughters or nieces or such along. I’ll play goal, as I often have later in life, especially in futsal, because I’m a good keeper in futsal. The net’s only a little over 3m wide, and 1.85m tall, and at my height of 175cm, there’s a whole lot of me to miss, trying to score into that net. Also it means I don’t have to run around all night, though on the small field that’s not as bad as outdoor anyway.

    It’ll do my depression good, for sure. And winter is always the worst. My doc did up my AD meds today, which I think will help too. I feel like I’m currently doing okay, but not really all the way out of the trench. My black dog is never all that far away, these days.

    *hugs* offered to those as wants ’em, and I’ll read more later, but now I have to increase my degree of horizontality.

  179. Ogvorbis: Apologies Available for All! says

    ImaginesABeach @172

    Ogvorbis – did you find out if you can collect unemployment until called back?

    Yes, I can.

    Husband has been called back (apparently every last DOD employee is essential)

    That’s great.

    which means that he cannot collect unemployment because he is working, but he can’t get paid for working until after the shutdown

    That sucks.

    AND he cannot use this time to work for his occasional employer who was willing to offer him some hours during the shutdown.

    That sucks more.

    Lynna @176:

    news that may interest Ogvorbis as it contains more threats to Park Rangers

    No surprise that it would be Arizona. Back in the 1990s, Arizona tried to reopen Grand Canyon. Hell, they had a judge who declared that it reverted to state property. He was overruled, but still.

    ————-

    Norfolk Southern Corporation is now using “Conjunction Junction” in their advert campaign.

    ———–

    Today was slow at the Ogvorbis homestead.

    I processes 1/2 peck of fresh ripe jalapenos. Most got frozen, some were roasted, peeled, de-placenta’d and put in a mason jar with some olive oil.

    Boy got supeona’d. Again.

    We had leftover chile and broiled nachos for dinner (and it was good).

  180. Ogvorbis: Apologies Available for All! says

    Whoops. We had chili, not Chile, for dinner.

    All Hail Tpyos!

  181. morgan ?! epitheting a metaphor says

    Ogvorbis, #179

    We had leftover chile and broiled nachos for dinner

    I originally read that as “We had leftover chile and broccoli nachos for dinner.”
    HAD to go back and read it again. I love broccoli but that really didn’t sound wonderful.

    ;-)

  182. says

    Hugs offered to all Horde members in need.

    I found another photo of Shadow the Wonder Tortie; it’s not as artistical as the Solar Cat, but it is more characteristic of her:

  184. says

    Cross posted from the Roy Zimmerman thread:

    In an article titled The Reign Of Morons Is Here, Charles Piece examined the crop of Republicans about to devastate the world economy. An excerpt from the Esquire article is below:

    …

    In the year of our Lord 2010, the voters of the United States elected the worst Congress in the history of the Republic. There have been Congresses more dilatory. There have been Congresses more irresponsible, though not many of them. There have been lazier Congresses, more vicious Congresses, and Congresses less capable of seeing forests for trees. But there has never been in a single Congress — or, more precisely, in a single House of the Congress — a more lethal combination of political ambition, political stupidity, and political vainglory than exists in this one, which has arranged to shut down the federal government because it disapproves of a law passed by a previous Congress, signed by the president, and upheld by the Supreme Court, a law that does nothing more than extend the possibility of health insurance to the millions of Americans who do not presently have it, a law based on a proposal from a conservative think-tank and taken out on the test track in Massachusetts by a Republican governor who also happens to have been the party’s 2012 nominee for president of the United States. That is why the government of the United States is, in large measure, closed this morning. …

    We have elected an ungovernable collection of snake-handlers, Bible-bangers, ignorami, bagmen and outright frauds, a collection so ungovernable that it insists the nation be ungovernable, too. We have elected people to govern us who do not believe in government.

    … We have elected a national legislature in which the true power resides in a cabal of vandals, a nihilistic brigade that believes that its opposition to a bill directing millions of new customers to the nation’s insurance companies is the equivalent of standing up to the Nazis in 1938, to the bravery of the passengers on Flight 93 on September 11, 2001, and to Mel Gibson’s account of the Scottish Wars of Independence in the 13th Century. … we handed ourselves over to the reign of morons.

    This is what they came to Washington to do — to break the government of the United States. It doesn’t matter any more whether they’re doing it out of pure crackpot ideology, or at the behest of the various sugar daddies that back their campaigns, or at the instigation of their party’s mouthbreathing base. It may be any one of those reasons. It may be all of them. …

    Both sides did not do this. Both sides are not to blame. There is no compromise to be had here that will leave the current structure of the government intact. There can be no reward for this behavior. I am less sanguine than are many people that this whole thing will redound to the credit of the Democratic party. For that to happen, the country would have to make a nuanced judgment over who is to blame that, I believe, will be discouraged by the courtier press of the Beltway and that, in any case, the country has not shown itself capable of making. …

    With the vandals tucked away in safe, gerrymandered districts, and their control over state governments probably unshaken by events in Washington, there will be no great wave election that sweeps them out of power. I do not see profound political consequences for enough of them to change the character of a Congress gone delusional. The only real consequences will be felt by the millions of people affected by what this Congress has forced upon the nation, which was the whole point all along.

  185. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Quick and soft was the order for dinner, as the Redhead has a sore mouth where she bit it a couple of days ago, and I had some dental work done today (where’s the naproxin?). Left over rice, Progresso chicken and sausage gumbo soup, and some thawed shrimp left over from previous visitors. It did the job.

    Need something similar tomorrow night, as the Redhead goes to see 9 to 5 at the Lincolnshire Marriott Theater.

  186. kittehserf says

    Anne D @153 – squee! She’s adorable. Very similar colour to Fribs, that soft tortie (blue and cream, I think they call it) which can be deceptively dark.

    Is Shadow an Ultimate Camouflage Cat, too? Fribs can be totally invisible on anything.

  187. says

    Ogvorbis @179:

    No surprise that it would be Arizona. Back in the 1990s, Arizona tried to reopen Grand Canyon. Hell, they had a judge who declared that it reverted to state property. He was overruled, but still.

    Sounds like Utah. They’ve been trying to enforce legislation reverting all federal lands to state property.

    There are more mormons in the legislature in Utah, but Arizona has plenty of them as well. The mormon/conservative combo is particularly toxic.

    [This is from 2011, I couldn’t find a current list sorted for mormonism] … the 30 member Arizona Senate includes the following Mormons:
    Andy Biggs
    Sylvia Allen
    Rich Crandall
    Adam Driggs
    Jerry Lewis (who apparently has defeated Pearce)
    and Kyrsten Sinema, a gay former Mormon.

    In the 60 member Arizona house, I’ve identified the following Mormons (or who appear to be Mormon):
    Cecil Ash
    Eddie Farnsworth
    Tom Forese
    Peggy Judd
    Justin Olson
    Justin Pierce
    Steve Urie

    Governor Brewer don’t need no stinkin’ Park Rangers: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/10/04/ariz-gov-rejected-in-offer-to-reopen-grand-canyon/

    More current “Sagebrush Rebellion,” in which Arizona politicians try again to take over federal lands:
    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-03-26/states-rights-federal-land/53786490/1

  188. says

    Kittehserf, yes, Shadow is a Camo Kitty. She will sit in plain sight and snicker to herself while I frantically wander around calling. She’s also a climber; the kittens’ first time out in the yard, she went up a tree and onto the roof. I love her dearly, but she can be a real pain.

  189. kittehserf says

    Anne D, sitting in plain site and snickering is Fribbie all over! :D

    She used to be a climber, too, but is too old for that now (she’s 16).

    This is the first pic I took of her, the day we got her and Katie from the shelter in 1996. Fribs was so timid – still is, really, though now she’s also mostly deaf she doesn’t worry about things so much. Mum and I were running around everywhere looking for her before we saw where she’d got to:

    http://i.imgur.com/eEcrBWJ.jpg

    Katiekins, meanwhile, was doing this:

    http://i.imgur.com/D87nE2q.jpg

    which says it all about their personalities.

  190. Tony! The Immorally Inferior Queer Shoop! says

    ::a queer shoop blinks, in shock, unable to move, think, or react::

    Tethys @92:
    Growing up, the only time I ever heard fruitcake discussed was “who are we passing the fruitcake off to this year?”
    It always seemed to be one of the things adults and kids agreed upon at Xmas.

    ::yes, even a Shoop can blink…and yes I know blinking counts as moving and probably reacting too::

    The above was my initial reaction upon seeing the first part of #92.
    Then, I read the rest of it.

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!

    Oh, it hurts…
    ::the uncontrollable howls of the shoop are heard for miles::
    Woohoo…thanks. I did not even know I needed that.

  191. Ogvorbis: Apologies Available for All! says

    ::the uncontrollable howls of the shoop are heard for miles::

    Now I have this image in my mind of shoops standing in a circle, howling at the moon, before going fourth to kill and eat wolves.

    Sorry.

  192. Tony! The Immorally Inferior Queer Shoop! says

    Rawnaeris @98
    Oh congratulations to you both!!

    ****

    JAL @96:
    Aw fuck. My heart goes out to you, little one and your mother.

    ****

    Ingdigo @108:
    You start blogging again, count me as a follower!

  193. says

    Ever have one of those….quasi-meltdowns…. where everything seems threatening and happening way too fast to process and you’re hanging on to your temper by the edges of your fingernails?

    My son is autistic and something has set him off over the last two weeks repeatedly (we’ve had to come get him from school because they couldn’t calm him down and he was hiding under a table and/or throwing things), plus he’s incredibly sensitive to any discussion of it because he feels like a failure. The school wants to take him out of class for yet more training on how to be around other people which only aggravates his feeling of being not able to get it right and being isolated.

    I can’t get him to listen to me about coping strategies because I’m being drowned out by the noise in his head and his frustration at trying to understand/communicate with other people and failing. He’s been howling on and off in his room all evening because he lost his cartoons over lying to his teachers and picking a fight with other kids because he was frustrated with their rejection of him–he makes them nervous.

    His teachers are really very good (even though they often talk to my partner more than me because they understand him and they panic me a little; I have to translate carefully for these conversations), but I wish I could spare my son the heartbreak he’s going to face over and over when what feels to him like vulnerability and the willingness to reach out to others gets thrown back in his face. The other kids don’t understand it that way and can’t. They just know that he hugs them a lot and it’s ‘weird,’ or that something in the way he is makes them nervous. His teachers just know that he lies to them sometimes, or that he’s under the table and he won’t come out and they can’t teach class.

    I really….. get frustrated…. with NT people sometimes. I understand that they’re having a very different experience of life than I am, or than my son is. I just wish they understood that what looks like stubbornness is a combination of repetition (getting stuck in repetition because there are no other pathways) and mild to moderate panic (why is this routine not working here/it must work). I have a lot of trouble, and my son has a great deal of trouble, as well (but he doesn’t have 36 years of learning to juggle shit.)

    It’s hard not to be drawn in when he’s melting down because I’m terrified for him. His symptoms are so starkly outlined by his attempt to be in class with NT kids. And he has sympathy from his teachers now, but I just want him to feel… not alien.

    I guess that’s sort of a pipe dream. I still feel like an alien. I’m still talking to people and get the panicking feeling like there’s a slick, thick barrier between them and me and I’m scrabbling on it with my fingertips trying to reach them, to touch them and be understood. I’m still juggling multiple processing threads for simple conversations and having to come home and spend time with my computer (which almost always does what I expect it to and behaves in a consistent fashion.)

    Ack. Watching him deal with this is really getting to me. Can’t wrap him in bubble wrap, can’t spare him the heartbreak, can’t reason with him yet (he’s 6.)

  194. Ogvorbis: Apologies Available for All! says

    Hugs to mouthyb.

    Been there. Boy is mildly autistic. As am I (whatever Aspbergers is called now). I feel for you and for your son. Hugs to both of you.

  195. thunk (sigh) says

    Hi Tony! You’re a regulation shoop, obviously.

    Cerberus: sent you off an email.

    to everyone else: hi again.

  196. says

    mouthyb, hugs to you and your son. It’s hard enough being six, without adding non-NT to the mix. I hope you and he can figure out what’s setting him off, soon.

    kittehserf, they were such cute little kittens! Our kitten photos predate my digital camera, but someday I’ll get some scanned so I can share them. They used to be loving sisters, and sleep in a furry pile together, until one day Shadow walked up to Patches and smacked her one. Ever since then, it’s been armed encampments all over the house…

  198. Tony! The Immorally Inferior Queer Shoop! says

    JAL @120:
    I am glad you have an outlet for your frustrations. I hope you know we will always have your back and be supportive.
    Much love.
    ****
    Dalillama @121:
    How many cookies did you get that kept you quiet for trips?

    ****

    Eating was/is rarely a barrier to me talking.
    Come to think of it, growing up, my parents were of two minds when it came to dinner. We were supposed to sit down at the table and eat together, but mom and dad viewed family dinner differently. Mom wanted to use the time to talk about stuff in our life. “Our” = my sister and I. Dad wanted to eat. He felt it was important to eat in quiet and be done. Often, he would be watching a badketball or football game and we would be told to shush so he could hear the game. Looking back, I find it silly for us to all sit down for dinner *only* to eat. Mom felt the same. Given that the dinner table was one of the few places we could all be together, it was the natural place for us to gather and talk. If we weren’t going to talk, why eat together?

    I may ask dad about this one day. Not a big deal, but one of those curiosities.

    ****
    I went looking for the tumblr page for They Might Be Giants per HappyNat’s comment above (I want to see the interview ze alludes to) and came across this pro-choice, feminist image which I really like and shared on FB:
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151816320806738&set=a.102749171737.90216.9432926737&type=1&relevant_count=1&ref=nf

  199. cicely says

    My Phellow Pharyngulites, I’m asking a favor.
     
    There would be a Trigger Warning: sexual abuse of minors on the information I seek, but I don’t need grim details…just suggested search terms.
     
    You see, I’m involved in a FB argument with a guy who seems to think that only Islam offers the opportunity for grown men to legally rape little girls. I think I remember, from a few years back, a case where a father who raped his daughters claimed that it was “all right, because that’s why God [Christian] gave them to him”. I can’t come up with search terms to find the article/s where I read it. Any help gratefully appreciated.
    –
    *hugs* and kittens for Esteleth. And for CaitieCat also.
    –

  200. Tony! The Immorally Inferior Queer Shoop! says

    thunk:
    Ha! Regulation Shoop indeed.

    (btw do not know if you saw, but Chas apologized to you in the Dome)

  201. kittehserf says

    Anne @196, that sounds like Katie and Fribs, though they were on-off with the warfare. Mostly Katie’s doing, ‘cos bossy brat.

    I have an image of Patches wearing a WWII British hemet, sitting in a circle of sandbags and peering out over her gun.

    I suspect this might be an exaggeration, but don’t mention it, just in case she thinks it’s a good idea.

  203. says

    thunk @195

    Got your message and sent one back.

    Another bright spot to keep in mind is that a lot of colleges have damn good insurances you can buy into as a student and many have decent LGBT centers where support and resources are available. Once you get there the Centers can usually help you get connected with psychologists and treatment programs, which might take some of the sting out of thinking you have to do it all yourself.

  204. says

    Ogvorbis: Parental need to protect entirely at war with everything sometimes, you know? Thank you.

    AnneD: We’re not sure. His grandparents (paternal) came into town week before last and he was not okay when they left (he misses them). His school is also having to remove him from PE because he can’t manage regular PE activities without hurting himself (he gets dizzy easily and falls down, bruising himself badly, and he cannot catch a ball or himself when he falls), so maybe routine changes? Unfortunately, he will just start bellowing if we try to talk about it, so it’s difficult to get a sense from him directly what is bothering him. I can make good educated guesses because of what we share, but he isn’t a carbon copy of me.

    I should say that he is analytically intelligent and quite good with machines (he will happily disassemble things, and has since he was 1), as well as quite verbal normally. It’s just that words aren’t fully adequate to the task of communication.

  205. Ogvorbis: Apologies Available for All! says

    mouthyb:

    Parental need to protect entirely at war with everything sometimes, you know? Thank you.

    Wife and I experienced as, some of the time, a three-way battle: protecting Boy, letting Boy learn through experience (he did, eventually) and the rest of life. Not easy.

  206. Tony! The Immorally Inferior Queer Shoop! says

    zyxw:
    Welcome to the Lounge.
    Would you care for a virtual drink?

  207. Tony! The Immorally Inferior Queer Shoop! says

    Pteryxx @173:
    The level of suckage embodied by the government shutdown just gets worse with each passing day.
    Can the GOP be sued by all the people they have screwed over?
    (Rhetorical question)

  209. Ogvorbis: Apologies Available for All! says

    mouthyb:

    Sorry. I wasn’t aiming for condescension. I was aiming for empathy. Sorry I missed.

  210. says

    Oggie
    I believe that was intended as wry agreement. In my sociolect, ‘don’t I know it’ is semantically equivalent to ‘you said it’, ‘ain’t that the truth,’ ‘you can say that again’, ‘amen’, and similar utterances.

  211. says

    I’ve shut down the Thunderdome for a bit. I will rage furiously and kill a few accounts if anyone dares to bring that clusterfuck into this thread, too, so don’t. There is nothing to be discussed.

  212. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    On that note, why is Walton’s making the bar mired in Thunderdome? Congratulations :D

  213. Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought says

    I knew there was something I wanted to comment on, but almost forgot:

    Congrats, Walton!

    ___
    Mouthyb,
    Nothing smart I can say, so just *hugs*

  215. Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought says

    Cerberus,

    Sorry, I’ve only got *virtual hugs*, but there’s a whole great pile of them if you want.

  218. chigau (違う) says

    Yay, Walton!
    Hugs, Cerberus.
    (somehow all the rum is drunked but there is some white wine)

  219. Tony! The Immorally Inferior Queer Shoop! says

    Dalillama:
    My normal email is acting wonky and I have a question for you (can’t even access my email contacts properly). I have a gmail account that I may switch to permanently if you could email me there…
    freethinker7519 at the gmail doohickey

  222. blf says

    If A MAN
    Can have
    Multiple Wife’s
    Why Can’t I?

    I wonder how whoever wrote this pronounces wife’s and wives. …

    Both are pronounced slaves. Or, possibly, chattel.

  223. chigau (違う) says

    Every year, many of my houseplants spend the Summer outside.
    When the overnight temperatures get close to freezing, they are all moved back indoors.
    Despite my best efforts at cleaning, small creatures always move in with the plants.
    There are four tiny soil-flies swimming in my wine and more trying to fly up my nose.

  224. says

    Good morning

    Cerberus
    All the hugs you want. My mail is nym(first part only) Ät yahoo DOT de if you need a sympathetic ear.

    thunk
    HUgs to you, too
    Please don’t let the world bully you into the “how women have to look like.” Women come in all shapes and sizes, not matter whether they’re cis or trans. I know you get an additional shitton of those expectation and I still get Cis-privilege while not being a supermodel, but your body, no matter whether before or after transitioning is not “not a female body” because your hips aren’t like this.

  229. Thumper; Immorally Inferior Sergeant Major in the Grand Gynarchy Mangina Corps (GGMC) says

    Hey all! *waves*

    I’m back! I’ve been interailing around Europe. I went to Amsterdam, then Milan, then Florence, then Garda, then Salzburg, then Vienna. I ate bitteballen and raw herring and a rijsttafel, got stoned for the first time in about seven months, reawoke my love for Italy, enjoyed awesome Tuscan food and cheap yet excellent wine, saw Michelangelo’s David, saw Florence from the top of the D’Uomo, ate too much ice cream, went in the world’s largest ice cave and discovered liver dumpling soup. It’s been excellent :) lot’s of new places and experiences.

    How is everyone? Did I miss anything particularly exciting?

  230. carlie says

    mouthyb, I’m so sorry. When we were in a similar situation, it required a LOT of “training” of the teachers, and a lot of stuff on our part, too. If you want to chat by email I’m at carliesinternet at yahoo (I check it every couple of days or so). I hesitate to give suggestions because I don’t know what things are like in your area, but in our state we had a few options that you might have something similar for in your location.
    If you have the ability to get separate outside counseling (through healthcare or medicare or a regional autism center), for us that helped calm some of our school administrators down from the “taking him out of school” mantra. Also, we’re allowed to bring in that counselor as an advocate for the child to school meetings, which can really help with the parent not having to bear the burden of explaining what their child needs and why. Most people get parent-teacher conferences with the teacher; we always had them with what seemed like half of the school staff (teacher, special ed teacher, social worker, psychologist, principal, occupational therapist, physical therapist, gym teacher).
    We set up special behavior plans that allowed Child 2 to leave the classroom and go to a “safe space” (the principal or the social worker) at any time he felt overwhelmed or frustrated, every teacher knew what his specific triggers were and how to minimize and watch for them (this took a couple of years of trial and error, though), the recess and lunch room monitors knew to keep an eye on his interactions with other kids. And the kids themselves, that was the interesting part. Kindergarten and 1st grade were pretty rough, but because of some hard work on the teachers’ part to normalize his actions, explain to the other kids what was going on (in a simplified way), and help him navigate interactions, they got used to him and learned how to interact with him more on his terms. I’m not going to say they became friends, because they didn’t, not really. But they did stop being scared of him, and they did include him as a peer, and they learned how to work around his issues too. One time we were at a concert and he sat next to a girl he fancied, and he started getting really antsy and upset about how long it was taking to start, and she started sharing her books with him and chatting and keeping him busy – she handled him like a pro, at age 8. I guess I’m just trying to say it can get better, and you’re in one of the toughest times right now with the adjustment to school. It takes an administration willing to work with you, and that’s where an outside person can really come in handy, both reminding them of their obligation to do so and giving them suggestions they find palatable.
    Also, big hugs to you for what you’re going through. There’s nothing that can explain what it’s like to be the parent in a situation like that, especially when you share some of the proccessing/communication difficulties, and school admins just seem to speak a language foreign to everyone else.

  232. Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought says

    Good news!
    I have a very very promising job interview tomorrow. They already know me, since they are doing some jobs for my current place of work, and pretty enthusiastic about me starting with them as soon as possible.
    It’s too good to be true. I’ll have to keep cool, considering I am close to melting from gratitude that someone is willing to employ me. Not a good attitude for negotiating a good contract. Oh, and I’m apparently too enthusiastic about agreeing to meet with them tomorrow and generally letting them do this too fast. I dunno. I suck at deliberately bullshitting people to manipulate them.

  233. Walton says

    Thanks to all for the kind words! I’m also starting pupillage the following Monday, so I’m likely to be very busy for a while.

  235. Parrowing says

    Congratulations to Beatrice, Walton, Rawnaeris, and Giliell!

    *

    Nice to see you again, Thumper. That trip sounds like a lot of fun! I’m bummed that I may never get to take a trip like that while living in Europe. It’d be so much less expensive if my starting point was in Europe, but, well, we’re probably moving back to the US in a year or so and I don’t think I’ll have the opportunity before then.

    *

    I wanted to say a while back, kittehserf: that coat looks amazing!

    *

    The move went well. I’ve been a lot happier in my new place. We’re still sorting out little things, like setting up lighting and shelves, but other than that we are moved in and unpacked. And now we’re really going to get caught up in Grad School Application Process 2013. It’s my husband applying this year, not me, but I want to help as much as possible so I’m doing whatever I can to make sure things get done on time.

  236. says

    Wooo-hooo Parrowing
    I’m glad things are looking up for you.

    +++
    And here’s a recipe, or better said a preparation method for salmon
    This works best with salmon or another fatty fish
    -Salmon, cut into serving sized pieces
    -baking paper, cut into large sheets
    in this case:
    -garlic, ginger, salt, red pepper, garam masala. This works with other combinations, too, of course

    -put a piece of salmon on a sheet of baking paper. Add salt, spices, etc, grated or finely sliced.
    -Hold the two long sides of the paper together and fold several times so you have a closed “seam”.
    -Twist the open ends as if they were candy wrapper.
    -Place on a cookie sheet, bake at 180°C for about 20 min.
    Your fish will be juicy and your kitchen and oven won’t smell the least bit of fish.

  237. pHred says

    Cerberus

    I know that you don’t really know me, since I am just a long time lurker, but I would like to offer you virtual hugs if you want them or virtual hot chocolate if that works better.

    *

    My son is undiagnosed something (a little out of column A a little out of column B) and he just went into a new school for middle school since the regular district middle school as good as said that they could not cope with him. Which, of course, just exacerbates his feelings of failure, being different and somehow being bad. It is terrible and other than one of us quitting to home school or winning the lottery for private school we don’t know what to do. He is smart and at this point they are failing him academically and doing basically nothing to help him learn to cope with people either. ARGH!!

    *
    I need some real cocoa now. Sigh.

  240. Walton says

    Giliell: By coincidence, my family uses a very similar method to cook salmon. It does indeed work well. (Obviously I don’t myself, being veggie.*)

    (*On a related note, lately I’ve been playing The Sims 3, and one of my Sims has learned to cook, inter alia, “Vegetarian Grilled Salmon”. I wish this existed in real life.)

  241. Walton says

    “Vegetarian Fish and Chips” is also a thing on The Sims 3. It has been suggested that this could be achieved in real life by frying some fish-fillet-sized pieces of tofu in batter.

  242. Walton says

    chigau: By coincidence, I bought a houseplant today for my new apartment. I have named him Leslie. He looks like a Leslie, somehow. (Back home I have Winston, my pet pine tree.)

  243. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Try a Boca Burger; they’re pretty much indistinguishable from salmon patties.

  244. Walton says

    This looks promising: The Movement against Xenophobia. A coalition of UK-based organizations which will campaign against anti-immigrant policies and discourse.

    ====

    And in news from across the pond: Meet The Immigration Reform Activists Who Got Arrested At Yesterday’s Rally On The Mall. These activists have a lot of courage.

    Jhonatan Llamas is a self-identified DREAMer, or undocumented youth who was brought to the country from Mexico at the age of 11. He was willing to risk arrest because many members of his family are undocumented. He was unwilling to settle for a piecemeal immigration plan, an approach that some House Republicans have suggested, saying, “We think that it’s the time to pass immigration reform and fix this problem in the nation. I have family who’s undocumented– my brothers, my parents, uncles, cousins, so this affects me a lot. We need citizenship for all of the immigrants in the country.”

  245. Tethys says

    Congratulations to Walton.
    Hugs for Ceberus.

    DavidM
    Thank you for the knitted spoon. I hung it up right next to the computer, and I am going to name it George.

    ——

    I have caught up in Tdome because I felt I had the spoons to try and explain again what it is like to be non-NT in a NT world, and I have read here in the lounge of various people having difficulties raising non-NT children.

    I see that further miscommunication about a different bad thread led PZ to close the dome and issue warnings, and now my brain is running in circles and the logic circuits are shorting out, and flailing and upset because it sees why there are so many angry people, but needs to follow the rules and not talk about it, and hurt feelings, and rules, and unfairness and *bzzzzttttttttttttt*

    Imma going to go do some soothing repetitve, tedious activities and try to organize my feelings into something I can verbalize.

  246. cicely says

    Major *hugs* for Cerberus.
    –
    Hi, Thumper!
    *waving*
    “Particularly exciting”? How’s about “Same song, different verse”?
    –
    Beatrice, I will keep all my tentacles crossed on your behalf, for this job interview.
    :)
    (And, of course, you have my very best wishes for your success.)
    –
    Giliell:

    Oh and hey, I apparently passed my gramar class with a B when I’d been hoping to scratch by on a C- or something like that.

    *high five*
    –
    Parrowing!
    *pouncehug*
    Good to hear that the move went well.
    –
    pHred, I don’t remember—are we on *hugging* terms?
    In any case, *hugs or other acceptable non-intrusive-and-refusable gestures of comfort and support*
    –
    No suggestions for search terms? I haven’t gone on FB, yet….
    –

  248. says

    This is a follow up to my post @176 (and several subsequent posts in which Ogvorbis talked about state governments trying to take over federal lands, and or threatening National Park employees).

    Pretty much as expected, some Utah counties are using the government shutdown as an excuse to push for state control of National Parks, National Recreation Areas, and National Monuments in Utah.

    San Juan County Sheriff Rick Eldredge and County Commissioner Phil Lyman confirmed Tuesday that county officials have proposed removing barricades and providing resources to operate Lake Powell, Natural Bridges and Hovenweep national monuments, and the Needles District of Canyonlands National Park. …

    Lyman said he expects action as early as this week, but the county is trying to coordinate with other southern Utah counties and some Arizona counties. Commissioners also are awaiting for word from Gov. Gary Herbert in response to declarations of economic emergency made by several southern Utah counties as park closures have disrupted fall tourism…

    Salt Lake Tribune link.

    Yes, the shutdown negatively affects the tourism-based economy in many Utah counties, especially those in southern Utah. The shutdown hurts everyone. Utah congress critters voted for the shutdown. You don’t get to declare southern Utah an exception to the pain. Elect more reasonable legislators in the future. In the meantime, pressure the legislators you have to buck the Tea Party trend and vote for a clean continuing resolution so that the government can reopen.

  249. says

    Yes, it looks like the Supreme Court will protect the rights of the richest of the rich to further corrupt politics in the USA.

    … uesday’s constitutional free-speech challenge comes to protect only the 1,219 wealthiest campaign donors, who in the 2012 election cycle reached or almost reached the limit on what they could contribute to federal candidates, parties, and political action committees in any two-year election cycle. This isn’t the 1 percent. It’s who the 1 percent dreams of becoming someday. …

    If McCutcheon and the RNC [Republican National Committee] prevail in having the aggregate limits struck down, folks will be free to contribute millions of dollars (the range of $3.5 million to $3.6 million is tossed around) to the campaigns of hundreds of federal candidates in a single cycle. …

    … it quickly becomes clear that all this talk of corruption and influence is happening in something of an alternate universe. Reflecting on how much campaigns tend to cost all together, Justice Antonin Scalia muses, “I don’t think $3.5 million is a heck of a lot of money.” To which Solicitor General Donald Verrilli relies doubtfully, “If a party’s got to get $1.5 billion together to run a congressional campaign—parties and candidates together—and you’ve got a maximum of $3.6 million, that’s about 450 people you need to round up. Less than 500 people can fund the whole shooting match.” …

    Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg puts it more succinctly: “By having these limits, you are promoting democratic participation. Then the little people will count some.” …

    Slate link.

  252. says

    Synaptic Sludge Carriers, Republican Congressmen all, tried to demonize a female IRS agent when she testified before the House Oversight & Government Reform Committee. The demonization got so bad, and so ridiculous, that Democratic Representative Gerald Connolly finally came to Affordable Care Act Office Director Sarah Hall Ingram’s rescue.

    Connolly asked her if she was a witch (in mockery of Republican tactics) and this gave Hall Ingram an opportunity to reply that she has never worked with the devil, could not fly, and was not responsible for perverting the youth “in Salem or anywhere else.”

    Of course, this House Oversight committee is chaired by the singularly awful Darrel Issa, a Republican that has tried, without success to prosecute “Fast & Furious,” the Bengazi attack, and lots of other issues that have been recognized as politically motivated witch hunts. This is the first time he has mounted an actual witch hunt.

    BTW, Issa recently declared that President Obama is a “non-essential employee.” Issa’s prosecutions take up time and money … and they always go badly. Issa is not deterred. He has super-immunity to facts.

    Think Progress link. Video available at the link.

  253. says

    Another casualty of the government shutdown, elementary schools on Native American reservations and military bases.

    http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/10/09/2757611/shutdown-impact-aid-schools/

    Schools on or near Native American reservations and military bases, which end up with less property tax revenue to support their operations, receive Impact Aid from the federal government to help make up the difference. Some of those schools submit requests for early payment when money looks like it may run dry. But those requests are sitting unexamined in an inbox while the government remains shut down, which means the schools will have to wait until after it re-opens to get the funds, a wait that could have extreme consequences….

  254. Markita Lynda—threadrupt says

    Hello, thunk @130! I had an idea about a preferred name: “Thunk” does sound a bit like a sound effect, but what about Thun? For Thundera? If anyone asks, it can be a cos-play name or an old nickname.

    I hear you about the applications with a binary choice of sex. Could you call the LGBT office on campus and ask them if there’s a way to handle it? Checking both? Checking your heart-felt sex? Asking for a single room? If it’s too difficult to find an LGBT contact, you could ask the registrar’s office.

    If any of these suggestions don’t appeal to you, please feel free to ignore them. I don’t want to be intrusive or give you extra things to do. You have enough going on. Here’s a pile of gentle, non-invasive hugs and baby animal snuggles.

  255. David Marjanović says

    pHred, thank you for the explanations, and I’m sorry I sent you down memory lane! :-( *knitting more spoons*

    Thank you for the knitted spoon. I hung it up right next to the computer, and I am going to name it George.

    ^_^

    =========================

    From the closed [Thunderdome]. I have to put it somewhere, or I’ll lose it all.

    Cerberus:

    I mean, for fuck’s sake, I have seen more condemnations in that post of the grandpa for disowning her than her for disowning the gay kid.

    How is that not deeply fucked up?

    As I wrote: I don’t think I’m the only one who doesn’t like to point out the obvious when nobody contests it. Everybody seems to have taken for granted that the grandpa is Not Good.

    I think you, for some reason, don’t think that it’s important to try to address other people’s words accurately. If pressed for a motivation, I would assume the most likely: laziness.

    […]

    I get that (right now) you want to have your portrayals of other people’s words taken at face value, while you don’t treat other people’s words at face value. I wouldn’t assume that you’re always expecting this kind of preferential treatment.

    Wow.

    Is there no such thing as an honest misreading on your planet? What makes you infer a malicious motivation? I don’t get it.

    I don’t get it any more than I get why PZ said you were “skating on thin ice” when you really did not talk about “B-word”.

  256. says

    Tethys, pHred:

    *HUGS (or other appropriate physical gesture of comfort)*

    And *HUGS* back to everyone who spared them last night.

    Ooh, something good that happened recently. I went to the bank on Monday to try and clear up some weird charges the bank threw at me for a mistake they made. My partner was with me and introduced me by my actual name and used the she pronoun once, but otherwise I was in my agendered getup that’s easily mistaken for male.

    I handed over my bank card, which has my legal name, which usually means that all further addressing is going to be with the male name and pronouns on the card and account (I’m very used to this happening).

    Except the banker didn’t. As he was on the phone to his bosses to try and figure it out he constantly referred to me as Ms. Last Name and used my proper pronoun. When he accidentally used my AAB designation he did that hard blink thing and then didn’t get it wrong afterwards. He didn’t need any prompting than the early meeting, just noticed that my legal name and the name I gave him were different, understood it was because I was trans* and reacted accordingly as if it really wasn’t a big deal. Since this doesn’t happen, like ever, I went out of the whole shebang just grinning from ear to ear and it made my whole fucking day.

    It’s amazing how something so small can be so impactful.

  257. says

    David @255

    Aaah, no.

    Thank you, but PZ Myers specifically said we shouldn’t spill that conversation over into this thread and I really don’t want to see someone get hurt or get in trouble on my behalf.

    I’m doing better today so let’s just sort of leave that whole mess over there and try and focus on the Loungey stuff instead.

  258. David Marjanović says

    Less pleasant stuff.

    Kris Kobach (Kansas) Plans for a Two-Tier voting [sic] System to make it as difficult as possible to be validly registered to vote in all elections.

    Petition for humane asylum policy in Austria.

    “We want to send a strong signal that the behavior of official Austria towards refugees is no longer to be silently assented to.”

    “It is inhumane that in Austria, one of the richest countries of the world…

    – well-integrated people and families are deported or torn apart by the deportation of individual members,
    – asylum seekers able and willing to work are not allowed to work regularly and lack effective access to education or job training,
    – asylum seekers only receive incomplete basic care and, in part, have to live under undignified conditions,
    – asylum seekers receive insufficient legal support in the court proceedings that are becoming more and more complex.
    It is further inacceptable that refugees are pushed back and forth within the EU, have to live under conditions that sometimes violate human rights and endanger their health, and that the EU countries refuse to introduce a solidary […I’m making that word up, aren’t I?] refugee policy.”

    “We demand from the government and from all parties represented in parliament:

    – make sure that well integrated people are not deported, families not torn apart and humanitarian circumstances are taken into account,

    – effective access to the job market after at most six months as well as unrestricted access to education in school and beyond for asylum seekers,

    – basic provision oriented along human needs, with a professional care structure that covers everything, supports individual responsibility and provides for realistic possibilities of providing for oneself,

    – a complete and legible overhaul of the Austrian asylum and foreigner laws as well as publicly financed independent legal counsel for people who seek protection,

    – end the asylum lottery: Europe needs a solidary system of accepting refugees, therefore [it] also [needs] comprehensive laws at the EU level which ensure, Europe-wide, the rights and standards listed above for all protection-seeking people in all member countries – let Austria lead by example[.]”

    Better news:

    Our Dream Come True: Solar Power is as Cheap as Gas, Coal Plants Closing Slashing CO2 Emissions – I’ll have to read up on this at some point.

    From 2 weeks ago:

    New Poll: Hispanics have Turned SHARPLY Away from Republicans! That’s from back when immigration reform was a topic.

  259. Markita Lynda—threadrupt says

    Lynna @249, I’d like to see a each candidate in a campaign given spending limit per voter that’s equal to the state’s recommended expenditure per pupil per year on education. The only way to increase spending would be to vote more money to students during the term or register more voters of any party affiliation or none. Suppressing voter’s rights to vote would cut all candidates’ funding. Any other campaign effort must be strictly from the number of volunteer hours they can enjoin to help them.

    Then watch them work with that!

    And while I’m at it, I’d like a green pony with a rainbow-striped mane & tail.

  260. David Marjanović says

    on my behalf

    I don’t understand why on yours.

    Anyway:

    and reacted accordingly as if it really wasn’t a big deal. Since this doesn’t happen, like ever, I went out of the whole shebang just grinning from ear to ear and it made my whole fucking day.

    Yaaaaaaaaay! :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) *Jadehawk’s® Totally Biodegradable Confetti®*

  261. Markita Lynda—threadrupt says

    end the asylum lottery: Europe needs a solidary system of accepting refugees, therefore [it] also [needs] comprehensive laws at the EU level which ensure, Europe-wide, the rights and standards listed above for all protection-seeking people in all member countries – let Austria lead by example[.]”

    Oh, hell, yes! If you qualify, you should be admitted and given help to settle in. And any woman from a country that disenfranchises women should automatically qualify, and any LGBT+ person from a country with laws against sexual orientation, and any country with a civil war, so on and so forth.

  262. David Marjanović says

    PZ Myers specifically said we shouldn’t spill that conversation over into this thread

    Oh. I didn’t see that because I didn’t scroll up almost 60 comments.

    Still, let it be said that I genuinely don’t understand a lot of things here.

  263. Pteryxx says

    Follow-up on my #173 about the salmonella outbreak – it IS antibiotic-resistant. Surprise surprise.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/08/salmonella-chicken-outbreak/2941783/

    A salmonella outbreak linked to raw chicken from California involves several antibiotic-resistant strains of the disease and has put at least 42% of the victims in the hospital, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Tuesday.

    “That’s a high percentage,” said CDC spokeswoman Barbara Reynolds. “You would expect about 20% hospitalizations with salmonella Heidelberg.”

    There have been no deaths linked to the outbreak.

    Thirteen percent of those sickened have salmonella septicemia, a serious, life-threatening whole-body inflammation, said Caroline Smith DeWaal, food safety director of the Center for Science in the Public Interest in Washington.

    And Foster Farms’ statements are as full of BS as their products are CS:

    In an emailed statement, a Foster Farms spokeswoman said, “consumers should know that the frontline antibiotics used to treat salmonella are fully effective in treating the illness.”

    Congresswoman Louise Slaughter took strong exception to that. “They have no ground to stand on to make that statement,” she said. Slaughter has been an outspoken advocate for ending the routine feeding of antibiotics to animals to promote growth, a practice which FDA and CDC agree can breed antibiotic resistant strains of disease.

    Frontline antibiotics aren’t all working in this outbreak, she said. “These Heidelberg strains are resistant to multiple antibiotics, including ampicillin, chloramphenicol, tetracycline and streptomycin.”

    The chicken has not been recalled because the agency’s Food Safety and Inspection Service “is unable to link the illnesses to a specific product and a specific production period,” the news release says.

    Of course multi-drug-resistant salmonella Just Happens totally naturally and can’t be anybody’s fault! Except the consumers getting victim-blamed by “just learn proper food handling” Helpful Tips in basically all the news articles, press releases, and comment sections discussing the outbreak.

    From McKenna’s original Wired post:

    Finally, a number of commenters have asked why this outbreak is even an issue, assuming that people are only at risk if they undercook their chicken. That assumes that people are only becoming sick from their own actions and not, for instance, eating the chicken in someone else’s home or in a restaurant. It also fails to account for salmonella’s nimbleness at spreading off raw meat to other niches in professional or home kitchens — a cutting board, a counter, a towel, a sponge, the cook’s hands — and then from there in an undetected manner to other foods. And, finally, it fails to acknowledge that some members of the population — toddlers, elderly, people with immune systems weakened by various medical treatments — are more vulnerable than others. There’s no question people should behave self-protectively. But in our regulatory system, food safety is a shared responsibility, federal, commercial and individual — and it only works when every party in that chain works to the highest standard they can.

    and from Twitter discussion:

    @docfreeride

    Commenters on @marynmck’s post blame consumers 4 their own Salmonella
    http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/10/shutdown-salmonella/ … “YOU’RE responsible for cooking it properly!”

    @docfreeride @marynmck Never seen grocery store stockers practice aseptic technique, but sure all ppl need to worry about is their kitchen.

    @docfreeride 5h

    @seelix @marynmck Now I totally want to see the meat counter restocked through a glovebox! Futuristic!

    If you’re not doing all your food prep in hazmat suit, dousing all work surfaces w/ phenol, YOU HAD IT COMING

  264. Pteryxx says

    and follow-up to David M at 258 on the two-tiered voter system:

    UPDATE 10:51am PT: Imagine that. Arizona’s Attorney General Tom Horne has also decided to interpret the U.S. Supreme Court’s ruling exactly as Kobach has in Kansas, according to Laurie Roberts at AZCentral. Horne has announced plans to create two different classes of voters in the Grand Canyon State: those who can vote in state and local elections, and second class voters who can only vote for President, Vice President and members of Congress…

    “Although the Court did not specifically address whether a Federal Form applicant could vote in state or local elections, the Court noted that state-developed voter registration forms could be used ‘in both state and federal elections‘ and that the Federal Form guarantees that a simple means of registering to vote in federal elections will be available,” Horne’s opinion says.

    http://www.salon.com/2013/10/09/the_rights_despicable_new_voter_suppression_scheme_two_classes_of_voters/

  265. ChasCPeterson says

    I didn’t see that because I didn’t scroll up almost 60 comments.

    oops!
    You can expect furious raging from teh ECO and condescending advice from Tony!.

  266. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    This is still the Lounge you know Chas. And what is with your abuse of exclamation points lately?

  267. says

    Yay Cerberus!

    +++
    Today #1’s daycare made me doubt my mind
    We’ve been having the problem that somebody steals her stuff from the passage where the coatracks are. I told about her plushie. The same week I noticed that her slippers for wearing inside were gone. So I gave her the spare set to runners I’d bought on offer for when she’d outgrow the current ones. Within 3 days they were stolen.
    Now they made totes that are fixed to each child’s hook. The hook and the tote have the kid’s name and we were supposed to put a shirt, track pants and shoes in there, which I did yesterday. The tote is fixed to the hook with cable binders.
    Today I took my mum in law because I needed to show her everything for when she starts to pick #1 up next week. And I showed her the hook (#1 had already put on her coat) and was struck dumb. The tote, it was gone. The hook was empty. The teachers were like “we can’t believe this happened again, to you, always only you. Are you sure you already put the things in there?” so that I started to doubt my mind.
    Well, we found the tote. They had accidentially labelled two hooks with #1’s name and I was looking at the wrong one.
    Didn’t make the other two pairs of shoes magically reappear, but at least I’m not imagining things.

    +++
    Phred
    I’m currently having #1 tested for non NTness and today the therapist asked me what felt like 319846516 questions. I found some of them quite, um, hard to answer.
    “Does she do XYZ to an exceptional degree?”
    Eh, what’s the scale we’re talking about? What is “exceptional degree”? Hello, this is the first 6yo I have, so how do i know?

  268. Pteryxx says

    From kansas.com via DailyKos: (bolds mine)

    “This means you should take note when a federal form comes to your office and keep a list of the names of individuals who submit them … Whichever form a person uses, if an applicant does not submit a U.S. citizenship document, you must follow up and request one.”

    Voters who fill out the state form and don’t submit the citizenship proof have their voting privileges suspended until they do. At present about 17,500 voters are “in suspense.”

    Kobach, Bryant’s boss, confirmed he’s planning for elections with different ballots for different voters, depending on whether they register under federal or state rules. He said it’s “merely a contingency plan” in case he loses a lawsuit seeking to make federal officials adopt Kansas rules for voters in Kansas.

    http://www.kansas.com/2013/10/04/3038825_kobach-laying-groundwork-for-two.html

  269. David Marjanović says

    Randomly scrolling up…

    *restocking hug truck*

    Oh, and congratulations to Walton! :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

    Utah claims to have an excellent educational system, but it is actually underfunded, with many levels of that system being apt to polish the turd, as they say.

    It’s a mormon thing, to paint a happy face on crap … and then to believe the happy face.

    I can’t tell you how many times I have despaired over the spelling and grammar skills of adult writers in writing workshops I have attended. Judging writing contests in the morridor is an exercise in masochism.

    And of course there/their/they’re is simply beyond their comprehension. They’re insulted to red-in-the-face and sputtering level if you point out that there are errors like that in their manuscripts. How dare you focus on such petty issues while ignoring the deeply spiritual content of …. whatever.

    Okay, now I’m slipping into the despair mode, so I’m off to read about more pleasant things, like the government shutdown.

    Uh, sure. But my point was a linguistic question. :-) There’s a perfectly good reason to confuse there/their/they’re. What makes people confuse wife’s/wives, when presumably they pronounce wife’s with [fs] and wives with [vz]? Don’t they?

  270. David Marjanović says

    You can expect furious raging from teh ECO and condescending advice from Tony!.

    Perhaps, but I’m not as concerned with my dignity & status as you seem to be. It takes more to make me feel like I’m condescended to.

    And what is with your abuse of exclamation points lately?

    Tony! The Immorally Inferior Queer Shoop! has two of them in his name. Hey, Yahoo! has one, too.

  271. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    “Does she do XYZ to an exceptional degree?”
    Eh, what’s the scale we’re talking about? What is “exceptional degree”? Hello, this is the first 6yo I have, so how do i know?

    Oh, I hate those.

  272. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    David,

    I hadn’t notice ’em in Tony’s nym. Just another reason…

    NVM. I shouldn’t have asked. Not appropriate Lounge behavior. Consider it dropped.

  273. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    Chas,

    I apologize for the question of the exclamation mark in your comment here. I read it as a continuation of your style responding to Tony in Thunderdome.

  274. Dhorvath, OM says

    Tethys,
    Ankle hugs are available. I am also reeling this day and couldn’t decide whether I would post anything or just walk, your words convinced me that a small word of concern to those here I know was not an impossibly bad idea. So. Hugs abound, sometimes they work, other times they are just greedy on my part, but either way, I offer. Take care all.

  275. says

    David M. @269:

    Uh, sure. But my point was a linguistic question. :-) There’s a perfectly good reason to confuse there/their/they’re. What makes people confuse wife’s/wives, when presumably they pronounce wife’s with [fs] and wives with [vz]? Don’t they?

    You have a point. I did not address your point. Yes, some of them say “wifes” when they mean “wives.” They also say “then” when they mean “than.” It is a society-wide problem of ignorance being more or less considered a virtue, and of a general lack of respect for true excellence in any field. Rule by Morons.

    They write “bare” when they mean “bear,” a mistake I see over and over, as in “bare your testimony.” The LDS church gets the “bare/bear” distinction right, so I don’t know why the members consistently get it wrong. I do like the idea of stripping one’s testimony down to the naked particulars … and then finding it doesn’t bear up when examined.

  276. pHred says

    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    “Does she do XYZ to an exceptional degree?”
    Eh, what’s the scale we’re talking about? What is “exceptional degree”? Hello, this is the first 6yo I have, so how do i know?

    Oh dog I hate those things. We filled out what felt like a million of them. “Does your child relate appropriately to their peers?” Um, how is he supposed to relate to them? How should I know? “Does your child relate appropriately to criticism?” Well no, not anymore, no that you’all have made him hyercritial of himself. He is very social and friendly but doesn’t understand it when other people don’t play by the same social rules (like lying – he is terrible at it but trying to aquire the skill and doesn’t get it when other people lie to him).

    He is 10 now and they still want me to fill out forms about when he first sat up, first held up his head, walked etc. etc. That hasn’t changed since the first thousand papers we fill out and at this point I don’t remember anymore anyhow.

    One therapist actually suggested that we train my son like a dog! We didn’t go back there – that was beyond words messed up.

  277. David Marjanović says

    The e-mails just keep flooding in. Most ask for money, but only citizens & permanent residents can donate. But here’s yet another petition.

    David — First, John Boehner said Republicans should keep the government closed to “PUT POINTS ON THE BOARD.”

    Then, he encouraged Republicans to prolong the shutdown — because ending it would be “unconditional surrender.”

    SERIOUSLY?!!

    John Boehner and Ted Cruz are prolonging the government shutdown just to score political points — and it needs to stop immediately.

    David, add your name. Tell Boehner and Cruz to end the shutdown immediately.

    As usual, I’ve taken my personal information out of the URL.

  278. carlie says

    The LDS church gets the “bare/bear” distinction right, so I don’t know why the members consistently get it wrong.

    Because they’re baring their souls, so it makes sense. It’s an eggcorn.

  279. Nick Gotts says

    They write “bare” when they mean “bear,” a mistake I see over and over – Lynna, OM

    I think I may have mentioned this before here, but the opportunity is too good to miss. I was arguing with a gun fanatic (and Nazi) once. He blathered about the “right to bare arms”, and also came out with the hackneyed “You can have my gun when you prise it from my cold dead hands”. I told him he probably had cold dead hands because of his insistence on his right to bare arms, but he didn’t get it.

  280. David Marjanović says

    Eh, what’s the scale we’re talking about? What is “exceptional degree”? Hello, this is the first 6yo I have, so how do i know?

    Uh, you’re of course an extrovert with a fuckton of busily reproducing friends, and you phone your parents every day, that’s how!

    Yes, some of them say “wifes” when they mean “wives.”

    *pretends being able to raise one eyebrow*
    Fascinating!

    They also say “then” when they mean “than.”

    Many Americans, I’ve noticed, pronounce such words as “yes” with “a” as in “apple”. In this case this produces a merger.

    They write “bare” when they mean “bear,”

    I remember a thread on Tetrapod Zoology where well-educated native speakers (from England) didn’t know these were different words with different meanings. Apparently, for many people, the words themselves have merged – not just the spellings they use.

    “Does your child relate appropriately to their peers?” […] “Does your child relate appropriately to criticism?”

    *headdesk*

    He is 10 now and they still want me to fill out forms about when he first sat up, first held up his head, walked etc. etc.

    *headdesk*

    One therapist actually suggested that we train my son like a dog!

    HULK SMASH

  281. David Marjanović says

    I told him he probably had cold dead hands because of his insistence on his right to bare arms

    + 1

  282. says

    Generically expressed sympathy for those dealing with non-NT issues (their own or relatives). I fully understand what mouthyb@193, pHred@237 and Giliell@267 are going through and how it makes one feel. I’m also currently living in that camp and feeling a failure.

    As well as school issues w/ spawn, his cat whom he adores and essentially lives for, currently is suffering from a urinary infection. This is the cat whom he misses so much that it’s hard to take vacations for more than 1-2 days; after a day or so he starts to melt down and begs us to go home.
    I fear to think what would happen if it were to get really, really sick.

    Thumbs up for all the good things in people’s lives too: Walton, Giliell and Cerberus@256.

    That’s about all I have spoons (or time) for.

  283. says

    Uh, you’re of course an extrovert with a fuckton of busily reproducing friends, and you phone your parents every day, that’s how!

    Yeah, that’s the very undercurrent I took away from those questions when they were directed at us. Infuriating.

    Does your child relate appropriately to their peers?” […] “Does your child relate appropriately to criticism?”

    I think I answered these with a blank stare, struck mute even, the first couple of times. Even today I wouldn’t know how to answer.

  284. thunk (sigh) says

    ugh hi.

    Markita Lynda: All great suggestions, but either I’ve kinda done them already or they’re unworkable.

    Common app wants birth certificate sex (odious, but they’re blaming it on “federal guidelines”, i call bs.)

    Rooming… has been fucked up all the way– half of the places might actually take me seriously, the other half would be too fearful of angry parents or something and say “no you’re AMAB go live with a man or pay extra”.

    (not that I haven’t faced this already, i’m in a boarding school.)

  285. Nick Gotts says

    Completely threadrupt, and no time to catch up, so congratulations/commiserations as appropriate.

    Walton@244,
    Thanks for that link, I’ll bring it to the attention of groups I belong to.

  287. says

    Oh god, the survey questions…..

    I can’t tell you all how often I wanted to be honest on those things (when I even knew the fucking answer; I have to idea how to answer those ‘is yr kid normal’ questions. Fuck if I know what normal is in kids, for a variety of reasons.)

    Family support? BWA-HAHAHAHA! Oh yeah, everyone has family who totally want to help and should be left alone with kids.

    Community support? Yeah. People I talk to online and that’s fucking it. My small circle of friends in meat space are all childless because they believe it best not to pass their genes on.

    Why in the word would I possibly be nervous around all these professionals who suddenly want to spend time with my son and are evaluating me? It’s not like myself and other members of my family were ever mistreated by therapeutic professionals. Therapeutic professionals and teachers are always well-intended and capable. Yep.

    /bitter mama rant

    carlie: I will be contacting you, this is just a crazy busy day.

  288. blf says

    This is the cat whom [spawn] misses so much that it’s hard to take vacations for more than 1–2 days; after a day or so he starts to melt down and begs us to go home.
    I fear to think what would happen if [cat] were to get really, really sick.

    Flying lessons, trebuchet launched, penguin, deranged, mildly, instructor, comes to mind.

    (Midair technicolour yawns onto the passing landscape an optional and free extra.)

  289. Nutmeg says

    Urgh. Someone gave a non-population-genetics, non-molecular-biology person data to analyze. Now their paper is rejected, because their analysis was…lacking, and they want to re-submit it before the end of the month, and guess who’s fixing it? I honestly have no idea where they got some of these numbers, or why the hell they would use those programs, or how the awfulness of this analysis got past the PIs involved. And of course no one saved the original results files.

    *deep breath*

    Dinnertime.

  290. carlie says

    Caine – AAAAAAHHH!!! AAAAAHHH!!! AAAAAHHH!!! I didn’t realize it was out already! Now that you mention it, a couple of months back I was in a bookstore and noticed a sign for the release date and went “Oh! Didn’t know it was so soon!” and promptly forgot entirely about it. AAAAHHH!!!

  291. says

    The world is too big, and I feel so very small and vulnerable.

    TW: ABUSE

    I don’t want to drag outside dramas into this space, and this has nothing to do with FTB, just… I need to let this out, because trying to cope on my own is leading to some… very dark and scary places.

    Without naming names, there’s this guy on another atheist site who is pulling every abusive ploy short of physical violence on several of the commenters, myself included.

    Despite several people (myself included) explaining how and why he’s in the wrong, he just keeps spouting plagiarized copy-pasta and (really, really bad*) Latin, and trying to twist everything around so nothing is his fault, and it’s really everybody else that’s wrong, and we’re delusional, and so forth. Of course, he’s male, and therefore RIGHT, even when faced with reams of evidence to the contrary (and holy fuck is that a trigger, right there!) He’s condescending, dismissive, anti-woman (read: “pro-life”), sexist, homophobic, all-around-bigoted, and thinks that because he uses super-obscure words he’s some kind of intellectual.

    It’s… it’s bad. Like, super-mega-triggering bad-with-a-capital-B BAD. I’m shaking. I’m nauseous. If I weren’t stoned, I’d be going full bore into a meltdown. I’ve been having… I don’t know if they’re, like, flashbacks, or what, but I’m feeling the same anger and fear and helplessness that I felt when I was with The Jackass.

    This is really not of the good, and I don’t know how to cope with it.

    *We’re talking “Romanes eunt domus”, here. (Conjugate, man!)

  292. carlie says

    I’m so sorry, WMDKitty. Please sit here for the hugses as long as you like.

    Caine – IT HAS BEEN OBTAINED. Luckily, a nearby library still had a copy. I felt sorry for the librarian, though. She was exhausted and mentioned this was her second job, and after she asked what we needed and I said “The new Percy Jacks…oh, here it is!” *nab* She said “Oh, that’s a new Percy Jackson? I got that in and didn’t even realize…” and kind of trailed off sadly like “Damn, if I had known that I could have had it read already instead of sitting here bored”.

  293. kittehserf says

    awakeinmo @71:

    kittehserf #19
    Nice! You’ve inspired me to pick up the needles again. I had knit a dissected frog for my Honey (inspired by Emily Stoneking’s knits), and he then asked for a knit fetal pig in a jar. Eventually, he wants a whole macabre menagerie. Knitting the Fiji Mermaid will be quite a task…

    Apologies for missing your comment before, and thank you! I’m chuffed with the coat, not least ‘cos it’s a lot softer to wear than I expected, mohair being a scratchy sort of yarn.

    That’s so cool you’re taking up knitting again – and ermagerd I would love to see your work! Have you any pics online?

    Parrowing @235 – thank you! :) Are those your kitties? Also, congrats on a successful house-move. Those are such pains in the collective arse.

    cicely @247 – cheetah cubs! Want!

  294. jste says

    Caine, Carlie – probably a stupid question since you both appear quite excited about the book, but are the Percy Jackson books worth reading ( / What sort of reader would you recommend them to)? The movie was…. terrible.

  295. cicely says

    *snortle*
    Riff on that bare!
    That bare baring that hare-y, hare-y cross.
    :D :D :D :D :D
    –
    *hugs* for dontpanic.
    –
    thunk, if you don’t mind my harking back to your expressed distress with trying to sleep with excess leg hair friction—what about satiny pajamas? My problem with leg friction is skin-against-skin, and I used to use my covers to prevent that contact, entanglement as the predictable result. Cotton or flannel pjs just change the problem to one of fabric dragging against fabric, but the satiny slick kind just flat take care of the problem; no skin-on-skin, no fabric-on-fabric, no strange bed cover topography! Available in unisexy styles, for not too much money, depending on where you shop.
    –
    *scritches* and herbage for WMDKitty, together with an offer to not sing to you.
    :)
    –

  296. thunk (sigh) says

    cicely: I don’t do pajamas. maybe I should…

    I guess the concept of nightclothes is alien to my family.

  297. kittehserf says

    thunk – is it upper leg hair, or all over, that’s really uncomfortable? If it’s upper leg hair, maybe satiny shorts/ boxers would help, if they’re long enough?

    cicely, I share the skin-friction problem. I can’t wear skirts/dresses without having some sort of down-to-the-knee, fitted underwear, like bike shorts, or I’ll end up red raw. Even some jeans will rub that badly, and tights haven’t been A Thing for me for years.

  299. Menyambal --- flinging the squaler says

    boskerbonzer, I liked that.

    Speaking of wearing jeans, I put on a pair today. It was the second day in a long time. I’ve been wearing shorts when not required to wear slacks for work, for all the long summer. Yesterday was cool, and I decide to wear jeans—it was an event, but perhaps just an one-time thing for a while. Today, I just put on jeans without really thinking about it, and realized summer is over for me.

  300. kittehserf says

    Menyambal – ::envies::

    It’s lovely and cool and wet in Melbourne today, but the forecast for Sydney was 39C. Thirty-fucking-nine in October! How I hate summer … and it’s still early spring. I wish I could commute and spend all year in a hemisphere where it’s autumn or winter.

  301. gobi's sockpuppet's meatpuppet says

    Hello Lounge :)

    @kitteserf
    About a month ago I had to replace all the reflective insulation batts in our ceiling because an animal shredded them all to make its nest. It was an expensive and painful exercise but I am sooo glad I did it. This summer is looking like a bad one already.

  303. Tony! The Immorally Inferior Queer Shoop! says

    Thumper:
    Good to see you again. Sounds like your jaunt across countries was exciting. Did you take the obligatory just got back from vacation and need a day to rest before work day off?

    ****

    Pouncehugs to Parrowing.

    ****
    Missing Portia and bluentx.

  304. Tony! The Immorally Inferior Queer Shoop! says

    jste @294:
    Yikes! That first movie was atrocious. In honor of my best friend M, who had passed away, around 50 of his friends and family watched the first film. He was a manager at a movie theater, so we got to see a lot of movies a few days before public release. He and I had the same critical approach to movies. We did not usually set out to pick apart a movie, but some films were just so bad, it was entertaining to eviscerate them. He and I were planning to see Lightning Thief before he passed away on 1/7/10. So a bunch of us watched that horrible movie in his honor. I texted multiple people through the course of the film about various awfulness.

    ::sigh::
    I do not really go to the movies much any longer.
    I miss my little buddy.

  305. FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist) says

    Waves at Parrowing

    Tony, could you please make me a virgin Caesar, extra spicy? It’s so hard to get the juice of the clam here. :)

    How I hate summer … and it’s still early spring. I wish I could commute and spend all year in a hemisphere where it’s autumn or winter.

    I’m right there with you kittehserf, er, well, next door anyway. I live in alpine Victoria and it’s a lovely 23 at the moment. As a Canadian ex-pat living in a bushfire prone area I dread summer in both a personal comfort and a safety sense.

  306. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    It’s so hard to get the juice of the clam here. :)

    *twitch*

  310. Nutmeg says

    I had an interesting discussion with my mom the other night. I thought some of you could probably relate.

    My brother’s been dating a new guy for a few months now, after a few years of only short relationships. (Relevant information: my brother is gay and so am I (I’m female).) My parents are visiting my brother this week and will meet the new boyfriend for the first time. My brother mentioned that his boyfriend is pretty nervous about meeting the parents.

    My mom was completely confused about why she and my dad are so terrifying. She was focused on things about them that might be intimidating, and she couldn’t think of too many. (I can think of lots, but that’s not the point).

    I guess I have a different perspective, because I was busy thinking about things about my brother’s boyfriend that might make him more nervous to meet my parents. I told my mom that it’s a little harder to meet parents when you’re gay, because you’re always a little worried about whether they’ll accept you, even if you know they’re supportive. I also reminded her that my brother’s boyfriend is not white, whereas we are as white as it is possible to be, and that might make him a little extra nervous too. Both of these perspectives had not occurred to her at all, which surprises me greatly. We all have blind spots.

    I keep breaking my parents’ brains when I try to explain gay things to them. A couple of weeks ago I somehow got sucked into explaining how gaydar works. My mom was just sitting and blinking by the time I was done. In retrospect, I should have told them about asymmetrical haircuts and left it at that.

    When I talk to them about this stuff, I have to watch my terminology very closely and keep it simple and not social-justice-warrior-y. It’s a good mental exercise for me. And trying to see things from other people’s perspectives is good for all of us.

  311. says

    re: “exceptionally”

    Yeah, a lot of those quizzes are hard when you’ve always been crazy/been crazy for a long time. Do I have episodes of “more than usual productivity”? Fuck if I know how productive I’m supposed to be!

  312. PatrickG says

    I confess to not having followed the Lounge in a bit, due to time constraints, but I did sort of want to drop this somewhere. I can’t think of anywhere better to do it.

    Trigger warning, if necessary: victim blaming and coercive sex

    It’s refreshing to see an article about consent and harmful attitudes towards victims on a platform like NPR.

    Starts off unusually frank, to my mind.

    Almost 1 in 10 high school and college-aged people have forced someone into sexual activity against his or her will, a study finds. The majority of those who have done it think that the victim is at least partly to blame.

    Concludes on positive note.

    “We absolutely need to have conversations with our kids about what healthy sex is and what unhealthy sex is,” she says. Parents could say, “‘If you have to convince your partner, maybe that’s not the right way to have sex.’ Even simple messages like that are important.”

    Buried at the end of the article, but … yeah. That.

    Sorry for the threadrupt. It just kind of excited me to see mainstream articles about this kind of subject. So bloody important.

  313. Pteryxx says

    —

    — warning for sexual abuse of minors—

    —

    cicely @199 – maybe the search term you wanted was ‘spiritual marriage’ ? I don’t know the specific article you mentioned but there’s lots of cases of supposedly Christian God-justified child “marriages”…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YFZ_Ranch

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/06/23/o.child.brides.stories/index.html

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2013/08/ghost-rapes-in-mennonite-bolivia.html

    http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/marcus-wesson-mass-murder-surviving-family-speaks-abuse/story?id=11089648&singlePage=true

    The roots of Wesson’s obsessions snaked back four decades to the day he staged a homemade wedding ceremony. The bride, Elizabeth Wesson, was just 8 years old.

    Elizabeth Wesson told ABC News that she believed Marcus Wesson when he said the Lord chose her to be his wife. She reveled in the attention he showered upon her.

    “He said that I belonged to him — that I was his wife already,” Elizabeth Wesson said.

  314. blf says

    It’s so hard to get the juice of the clam here.

    The basic problem is that, unlike oysters, clams don’t walk. So it’s difficult to herd them. Not a problem with oysters, albeit hiring experienced oyster-wranglers like the famous firm Walrus & Carpenter is recommended.

    Since the clams won’t come to you, or go into the milking barn, you have to move the planet. Well, not actually the whole planet, just the bit the clams are on. Fortunately, most matter transporters, TARDISes, et al., work just fine. There are some difficulties, of course. For instance, clams are typically in a quite wet, often submarine, environment. So good drainage is a must.

    The design of clam milking barn is critical. Music is a must. Problem is, clams’s tastes vary widely. Some like Bach, some like heavy metal, and some are even so demented to like elevator musick. (The rumour that a clam was once found which liked Morris Dancing has never been confirmed.) The proper music is essential, else the clams are hard to milk, produce little juice, or the juice is so foul-tasting it can be used as a horse-repellent.

    Clam-milking is a labour-intensive process. No-one has ever automated the process and survived the resulting explosion.

    It is traditional, after you’ve finished milking a clam, to give it a hug before returning it to its home and its home to its former location.

  316. says

    Good morning

    He is 10 now and they still want me to fill out forms about when he first sat up, first held up his head, walked etc. etc. That hasn’t changed since the first thousand papers we fill out and at this point I don’t remember anymore anyhow.

    Oh yes this. Honestly, if I’d known those things would be asked one day I would have written them down. I didn’t play “baby olympics” so I only remember a few spotlights because they were exceptional or at exceptional dates, like the little one making her first steps alone on her first birthday and such. For the rest I know whether things were “early”, “average” or “late” and honestly, with the little one approaching 4 I can’t even remember what “early” meant.
    And really, with some things, I don’t know. Is telling people on the elevator about the letters she just learned “appropriate smalltalk” or “inappropriatly talking to strangers”?
    The whole thing was frustrating, because in the end I had the feeling that no, these aren’t the things that are “special” about her. Can she cope with things being in a different place or changes inthe daily routine? Yes, but she can’t cope at all with things being different than what she thought they would/should” be, like the position of the tomato sauce on her plate without there being a generally fixed position for sauce on a plate or her having communicated it.

  317. jste says

    So I’m sitting on my train reading the free paper they hand out on my way home every day. Front page story? “Bonking 101 – Students to get ‘ethical sex’ classes”

    From the article:

    Students living on campus are being taught how to have “ethical sex” as part of a program introduced at the University of Technology Sydney this year. The university introduced the Sex and Ethics training at its Yura Madang Residence.
    It deals with issues such as consent, being an ethical bystander and “the sunlight test” — how someone will feel the morning after.

    My uni? Teaching students living on campus about consent? Maybe there is hope for the world after all.

  318. Walton says

    In other news, John Lewis is awesome and a hero. (I refer to the American civil rights leader and Democratic congressman, not to the British department store.) He was arrested outside the Capitol for protesting for comprehensive immigration reform. It’s good to see people speaking up for immigrants.

  319. opposablethumbs says

    ‘rupt-ish and getting ‘rupt-er, but CONGRATULATIONS WALTON!!!!! So, wow – the bar, the bar is calling, from Inn to Inn and down the Temple Lanes …? (needs moar coffee, statim). Confettifireworksmusic!!!!!!
    .

    And yay Cerberus, for the bank staff getting your name right – it shouldn’t be exceptional, but it is great!
    .

    Oh, the joys of assessments and forms and dealing with school staff wrt a NNT child. In all honesty I’ve kind of blocked some of the memories out now because during the worst period it was so unbelievably tiring and stressful. Things are relatively good now (sometimes very hard, but NOTHING like how hard it has been in the past) but I will never, ever forget sitting across from the head of the Local Education Authority SEN department and hearing him openly and outright threaten to leave the then-very-young Spawn with zero provision for as long as it took us to go to appeal (months) if we did not accept their assessment* (which was actually illegally unspecific and hence effectively useless unless we just got lucky with the school). Extra hugs to pHred and carlie and Giliell and everyone else who is dealing with this particular spoon-grinding assault-course.

    *There is a major, HUGE fucking flaw right down the middle of the system in the UK whereby the very same Local Education Authority who are legally responsible for SEN assessments are also responsible for paying for the provision a child needs. A total conflict of interest built right into the system. … So although a few LEAs are good about this, the great majority of them deliberately leave assessments worded as vaguely as possible so that you then have no grounds for getting anything done about it if your school fails to provide the support the child needs. And this fucker literally sat there in his office saying we could sign his document and legally accept it or he would leave Spawn with absolutely no support at all, at a time when he couldn’t even talk. And the appeals procedure could have taken most of a school year. Yeah, we signed. We were lucky with the school; a lot of families aren’t.

  320. Walton says

    Via Flavia Dzodan, a horrifying account of the brutality inflicted on undocumented migrants by European countries’ border guards. [Severe TW on the link for multiple forms of abuse, including sexual abuse and medical neglect.] Many of these people are refugees fleeing violent persecution in Africa or the Middle East. And yet European governments treat them like criminals.

    Also of note, hundreds of migrants died after a boat sank off the coast of Lampedusa in the Mediterranean. In large part because of European countries’ border controls, many desperate people fleeing violence have no choice but to attempt dangerous crossings like this one.

  321. Tony! The Immorally Inferior Queer Shoop! says

    Nutmeg @310:
    Am I correct in thinking your parents are receptive to the information you have given them?
    Sounds like an awesome learning experience for them, becoming aware of their privilege (without using that word, I imagine). You rock :)

    ****

    WMDKitty:
    My poor, innocent ears. Heavens to betsy. :)
    ****

    FossilFishy:
    I think you want Anthony K. He is familiar with that drink. Tis not in the psychic recipe book tucked away in my brain…

  322. Walton says

    So, wow – the bar, the bar is calling, from Inn to Inn and down the Temple Lanes …?

    Quite so! My Call ceremony will be this evening in the Temple Church, but I have to go down this afternoon for the photographs in Inner Temple hall.

  323. Walton says

    My comment on the latest BBC article about Theresa May’s horrifying anti-immigration crackdown. I have no idea whether the BBC will publish it.

    “Speaking as someone with experience of immigration casework and immigrants’ rights activism, I am horrified by May’s anti-immigrant rhetoric. It’s based in racism and xenophobia and a desire to placate the right-wing press.

    “Many so-called “illegal” migrants – how can a human being be illegal? – are failed asylum-seekers who have been wrongly refused asylum, due to the broken adjudication process which is stacked against asylum-seekers. The Home Office refuses almost all asylum claims at first instance, often picking on minor inconsistencies and taking no account of the effects of PTSD, and misinterpreting or ignoring objective country background evidence. See Asylum Aid’s report “I feel like as a woman I’m not welcome”, Frances Webber’s book “Borderline Justice”, and the horrors revealed by ex-UKBA whistleblower Louise Perrett. The tribunals are little better, with Clare Bennett’s research at the University of Southampton demonstrating that tribunal judges showed ignorance and prejudice towards LGBT asylum-seekers, for instance. The upshot is that many people are wrongly refused asylum, and face removal to countries where they are in danger. Some are detained in privately-run hellhole “removal centres” like Yarl’s Wood, where there have been multiple accounts of abuse and neglect over the years.

    “As for those undocumented people who don’t qualify for asylum and are labelled as “economic migrants”, many are fleeing extreme poverty in their home countries – created by an unjust global economic system which favours the West, and the legacy of colonialism in which some countries were plundered and exploited. Immigration controls are part of the system that reinforces global injustice.”

  325. Walton says

    Lynna,

    Walton may be interested in this article in The New York Review of Books. In the USA, we do not just mistreat immigrants and adult prisoners, we also mistreat juveniles who end up incarcerated.

    Sadly it’s much the same here: in 2004 a child died at Hassockfield Secure Unit, a privately-run facility. [Severe TW on that link for abuse and suicide.]

  328. says

    Ah, thanks everybody
    I admit that since things are pretty well at the moment* I’ll just go with whatever bone they throw at us. She has a wonderful teacher and she’s flying through her schoolwork without a problem. And since she was never unhappy the way she is/was I never thought I needed to do something.

    *Honestly, if #1 had acted like she does at the moment 5 months ago none of this would have happened. probably.

    Nightshadequeen
    Oh yes. I have these issues with realizing and taking care of my own needs, always denying myself, giving to others and still having a bad conscience because i’m selfish. It’s getting better but I still haven’t got a clue on what level would be OK and appropriate and I still judge other people by a different standard than myself. Other kids are brought to school by their grandparents every day. Yah, sure, so what? Me having to rely on my mum in law twice a week? Oh shit I’m a selfish monster.

  329. pHred says

    Good Morning

    Thank you for the support. We were lucky with the elementary school for the most part but have apparently run out of that luck. Now there seems to be this odd opinion that he was supposed to “grow out of it” somehow.

    Giliell – for us things were good the first couple of years of school but went rapidly downhill in third grade, not because of the schoolwork but because of the changes in social pressure and expected behavior.

    The number of times I was made to believe that I was a bad mother because every time my son did something I didn’t immediately run to a notebook and write down the date, time and phase of the moon. Nothing was really out of line except speech anyhow.

    I vote we stop trying to train everyone to be “normal” and isolating them if they can’t and instead we isolate the people who can’t stop acting like jerks if you are outside the “norm”

    Man this thing is hard to type on – sorry if this came out weird.

  330. carlie says

    New book finished! I have many thoughts. But now that there are people I’m trying to convince to read them, it would be spoilers. :)

    jste and Tony: the movie was an abomination on par with the Avatar: the last Airbender movie. Complete
    destruction of everything that was good in the original. It’s interesting that you found it so awful even not having read the books, because having read them… it was horrid. The books are a fun romp, and good for getting some info about minor gods that I hadn’t known before (I was minimal in my mythology reading. Knew the majors, not many of the minors.) Geared towards being an easy read for late middle school or so, very much square in the same demographic as the Harry Potter books. My son got into them in 6th grade, I think, but he’s a good reader. The main characters start out at about 13 years old, and age through the series. The Potter arc similarities bugged me at first, but then I remembered that no, this is the same basic arc of every single hero origin story ever, so it’s drawing on some solid footings there. It has corny jokes, and some clever wordplay, and decent depth to the characters, and it’s just really enjoyable.

  331. carlie says

    Oh, and they cycle a lot of main characters in and out, so you never get too bored of just the Hero and his Sidekick. And it passes the Bechdel test. And the girls kick ass.

  332. says

    Oh my fucking god what the hell Dan Snyder and Roger Goodell are both complete idiots.

    “The name [Redskins] was never a label, it was a badge of honor.” – Snyder on supporting the name from the original Boston Redskins, run by a supposedly Native American man William Dietz (who may have stolen the identity of an Oglala tribe member.)

    “By no means have I ever considered it derogatory as a fan, and I think that’s how Redskins fans would look at it.” – Goodell.

    It’s a fucking slur. It may not be a modern slur, but I would bet you my entire life savings if a football team was called the Anytown Negroes, it would be changed in a heartbeat.

    Fucking white men who can’t get it through their addled brain that other people matter.

  333. says

    pHred
    We were very lucky with our daycare.
    I noticed that #1 was different when she was about a year old. When the other children started to take an interest in each other, play and even fight with each other, she couldn’t have care less. And I worried.
    She started daycare, and though she liked going there and I never had any seperation problems she didn’t talk although she was very advanced verbally.
    Sometimes, when we walk to school there will be another boy who’s some 2 years older than her and who went to daycare with her for a year. He chats with me and asks me a ton of questions about her because in his memory she doesn’t talk and doesn’t answer any questions.
    And she still didn’t have friends or have any interest in them, despite them being very friendly. For her 4th birthday I knid of made a list of kids who seemed nice and she agreed to invite them. Her 5th birthday was during the holidays and she didn’t mind that there was no party with friends cause she didn’t have any.
    And I worried some more. And more, and more.
    And then I noticed that she didn’t worry. She wasn’t unhappy, she was totally happy and content. Her teachers just let her be and so I stopped worrying until it was time for her to start school and the principal didn’t want her. And suddenly, after the kid heard the principal voice those expectations of freinds, she had them. It was as if somebody had flipped a switch. And now her teacher is a good one, too, who deals with her instead of insisting her to fit a narrow mold.
    Man, yeah.
    Whenever people just deal with her instead of their expectations of a 6yo girl, things are fine.

  334. carlie says

    “By no means have I ever considered it derogatory as a fan, and I think that’s how Redskins fans would look at it.” – Goodell.

    Psst – it’s not about how the fans feel, asshole. How clueless can these people be?

    Ok, I can’t wait to talk about the book: massive spoilers ahead, I mean it, don’t read this unless you’ve read Heroes of Hades, seriously, it will ruin everything. rot13 to decode

    Bs pbhefr gur ovttrfg guvat vf nobhg Avpb. V qvqa’g frr vg pbzvat, ohg vg znxrf cresrpg frafr tvira nyy bs gur cerivbhf obbxf, fb V nffhzr Evbeqna unq gung nf uvf fgbelyvar evtug sebz gur ortvaavat. V ybir gung vg jnf n fbeg-bs-znva punenpgre, naq gung vg jnf gerngrq jryy sebz gur crefcrpgvir bs Wnfba, naq vg vf ernyyl vagrerfgvat gb rkcyber ubj n crefba sebz gur 1930f, jura ubzbfrkhnyvgl jnf vyyrtny naq rivy, jbhyq srry nobhg uvzfrys naq ubj ur jbhyq pbcr jvgu pheerag ivrjf nobhg vg. Ohg V qb guvax vg’f n funzr gung gur tnl punenpgre vf bar jub’f nyjnlf orra cnvagrq nf orvat na bhgfvqre naq qvssrerag naq fhpu. Vg pbhyq rnfvyl or frra nf whfg bar zber obk gb purpx gb znxr uvz pbzcyrgryl gur bqq bar bhg. Vg jbhyq unir orra zber abeznyvmvat sbe vg gb or Wnfba, be Yrb be fbzrbar zber va gur fglyr bs n yrnqvat punenpgre. Ohg jr’ir arire unq n puncgre sebz Avpb’f cbvag bs ivrj, fb abj gung guvf vf bhg V ubcr gung jr trg n jvaqbj vagb uvf oenva va gur svany obbx. Fnqyl, gurer ner gbaf bs Nznmba erivrjf gung ner nyy “rj lbh tbg lbhe tnl vagb zl xvqf’ obbxf!”, juvpu vf cerqvpgnoyr ohg qvfnccbvagvat.

  335. says

    @carlie:

    It’s completely stupid, and I’m just fuming at the insensitivity of people. This on top of the goddamned shutdown has made me hate this fucking society. America is seriously a society of “it doesn’t affect me, so I don’t care.”

    Add on top of it the fact that here at work I have to basically become a complete asshole if I want to get a promotion. This job does not reward teamwork. I have to undercut my colleagues, jump in when I’m not wanted, and be a jackass if I want to get anywhere. I have to cheat and steal if I’m to get a GS-13 – so I can have a wage that pays me enough to get rid of my debt.

    I hate this job so fucking much because it forces me to be someone I hate. I am a team player. I want to help out the group. I cannot be a self-serving jackass. But if I’m not, then good luck getting any higher than GS-12.

    I’m so tense working here that my shoulders, neck, and back are all completely torn up.

  336. jonmilne says

    Hi guys, I require help with a discussion on evolution I’m having a creationist/anti-evolution “pen-pal” in the US. I’ve asked a couple evolution related questions to the guy (Craig) and he’s responded. I’d appreciate hearing some responses to the stuff he responded with (my questions are quotes, his answers are bolded):

    1) What precisely do scientists who support the validity of the Theory of Evolution (or the elements you disagree with) have to gain from protecting a false theory (if indeed evolution is actually false)?

    Craig: Grant money for one. Sorry, but you know it’s the truth – nobody gets a grant to prove ID, that all comes from private money. Or just getting published. In every generation the status quo is powerful, and pioneers get arrows in their back.

    2) Wouldn’t the supreme argument about evolution being wrong have spread rapidly, become a super-hot meme, and be all over the front pages of newspapers and websites that deal with science matters?

    Craig: No, because 21st century science is a politically correct field. However, Christianity IS a super-hot meme, and continues to spread around the globe as it did when it first emerged. Creationism of some form, is, by far, the majority position of the planet. Don’t think your Western viewpoint is the way everybody thinks.

    and even if you don’t agree with all of the entirety of the Theory of Evolution, surely you must admit the importance Evolution and many of its components have in the field of biology?

    Craig:Well, any model, even a wrong one, has utility, just like the ball and stick model of molecules is useful. We can never know where the path not taken would have led, but I think Darwin has probably been a net negative to biological science. We would have progressed much further giving Mendel the first place. Mutation does play a role, no doubt, but I think it’s much less significant than the information driven change in species.

  337. Esteleth, statistically significant to p ≤ 0.001 says

    Re: explaining things to well-meaning-but-naive kin:

    I had to explain to my (genuinely well-meaning, genuinely pro-LGBT, genuinely feminist) sister why jokes about some guy “setting me straight” really weren’t funny. This involved explaining what “corrective” rape was.

    Her reaction was, “Wait, how could people think that raping a lesbian could make her straight? That makes zero sense.”

    Which, of course, is absolutely true. It also shows the extent to which she utterly did not get why the jokes weren’t funny – she considered them absurdist “never gonna happen” and I considered them “glimpse into a real and horrifying mind-set.”

    Fortunately, she got it after awhile. Because, well, she’s genuinely a decent person.

  338. pHred says

    Giliell
    We knew my son was different but he never fit any of the typical patterns. He is very social. In fact, as a toddler he was actually emotionally hurt that his stuffed animals “wouldn’t play” with him. He still struggles with real/not real. He also played wonderfully with other children at pre-school, which was a very supportive place. There was real culture shock going to kindergarten and seeing how the boys there played. He still plays better with younger children than his peers and he was wonderful working with the special needs kids – that was one of the priviages he could earn with good behavior – he could go visit the kids with Down’s syndrome – it was almost magical how well he could interact with them.

    I am glad you daughter is happy and things have worked out. That is wonderful.

    My son being happy is the most important thing to me too and why this new school business is so hard. He isn’t happy anymore.

    And now my daughter (she is 5) is having sensory issues. It has been taking an hour of screeming and cyring to get her dressed in the morning because everything “itches” or “feels wrong” – we are down a just a few things that she will wear. I have been washing everything in special detergent (fragrence-free, dye free, organic etc. etc.) which has helped but I am just about to go drop a bomb of money on some 100% cotton organic folded seam clothing in an effort to regain a normal morning or two. OTOH – other than the clothing thing is a very happy and sweet child.

  339. says

    pHred

    And now my daughter (she is 5) is having sensory issues. It has been taking an hour of screeming and cyring to get her dressed in the morning because everything “itches” or “feels wrong”

    Argh damn, that sucks. I hope you can come to a solution for that.
    So far the little one is thankfully what people deem “normal”. But hey, we’re only at age 4.
    Because I wouldn’t know where to find the spoons to deal with more.
    Because at the one hand you have people who demand that your child has to be like A and then people who act like you’re doing something horrible to them by having them evaluated…

  340. carlie says

    Craig: Grant money for one. Sorry, but you know it’s the truth – nobody gets a grant to prove ID, that all comes from private money. Or just getting published. In every generation the status quo is powerful, and pioneers get arrows in their back.

    A huge percentage of the knowledge of evolution comes from basic research. Know what’s not getting funded any more? Basic research. If it isn’t applied, it isn’t being funded. That means that every grant you can point to that is evolutionary and funded means that it is coming out with applied use, which means that it works. Whether you want to believe it’s true or not, acting on the assumption that it’s true gives results that actually work in applied ways in the real world. It takes a lot of circuitous reasoning to come up with a worldview in which everything works as if evolution were true, but it somehow still isn’t.

    No, because 21st century science is a politically correct field. However, Christianity IS a super-hot meme, and continues to spread around the globe as it did when it first emerged. Creationism of some form, is, by far, the majority position of the planet. Don’t think your Western viewpoint is the way everybody thinks.

    Oh boy. First, the american political landscape is still majority Christian and a lot of it is anti-science; witness the continued cuts and threats to science funding. Being a solid evolutionist is a detriment, not a benefit, in today’s political climate. I’d like to see data showing that Christianity is spreading wildly, because all of the studies I’ve seen show it on the decline. And “creationism of some form” being the majority would have to include things like the world being formed on the back of a spider and the like – I highly doubt that’s what he has in mind. Western viewpoint indeed. Does he realize how much Christians are outnumbered by Hindus, Taoists, and Buddhists just for starters?

  341. carlie says

    Oh, missed one.

    We can never know where the path not taken would have led, but I think Darwin has probably been a net negative to biological science. We would have progressed much further giving Mendel the first place. Mutation does play a role, no doubt, but I think it’s much less significant than the information driven change in species.

    Unfounded speculation. If he doesn’t know immediately, not looking it up, what the word “drift” means, or what the percentage of genetic changes are that fall into that category, he has no business opining on genetics and evolutionary theories. His high school level biology did not teach him everything he needs to know about genetics.

  342. pHred says

    Giliell

    Yep – no matter what you do, you are not doing it right.

    My mother’s helpful solution was to call my son a brat – which led to several days of “I’m a terrible kid” from my son.

    Good luck :)

  343. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Grant money for one. Sorry, but you know it’s the truth – nobody gets a grant to prove ID, that all comes from private money.

    The reason for that is that ID is a religious idea pretending it is scientific, when it is not. Watch the PBS documentary Judgement Day and see why. It is so obvious even the law can figure it out.

  344. carlie says

    My mother’s helpful solution was to call my son a brat – which led to several days of “I’m a terrible kid” from my son.

    Story: Child 2 got kicked out of his first preschool. We thought the second one was going ok, until Spouse overheard another kid say “Oh, [Child2], he’s the bad kid” to their parent, and found that the entire classroom plus at least one of the adult supervisors routinely referred to him as such. We pulled him out of that one as soon as we could. And thank the non-existent gods that we didn’t live close to family, because my mother’s entire mantra based on stories I’d tell her on the phone was “it sounds like you’re spoiling him” and “he just needs to cry himself to sleep” and “you cater to him too much” and the like for all of the years before we got a diagnosis.

  345. carlie says

    Sensory/clothing story: I went to an academic conference shortly after we got Child 2’s diagnosis, when I was still mentally reeling. And I noticed someone at the main opening plenary lecture who was sitting several rows in front of me, a guy who looked to be in his late 20s, who was sitting there calmly and contendedly, chewing on his shirt collar the entire time. Somehow that just really calmed me down, because Child 2 had a thing about chewing shirt cuffs, and here was a guy who was obviously being successful in life with at least some of the same extra things to deal with. It helped (although I still had the same number of shirt cuffs to mend…)

  346. awakeinmo says

    kittehserf

    I have a few pics up at my portfolio site. If you don’t mind clicking, the pics are linked to “knit weird things” on this page:
    http://www.balsarocket.com/
    I actually have knit “nice” things, too. Shawls, socks, sweaters, etc. But I just like making funny little things that don’t require a “size.” Because I’m lazy.

    Off-topic weird thing: My brain read “you must be logged in to comment” as “you must be drunk to comment.” I don’t know what it means, but I’m somewhat tempted to follow that guideline.

  347. Tony! The Immorally Inferior Queer Shoop! says

    Carlie:
    How did you get stuck watching the Percy Jackson movie? Was that a choice of the spawn?

  348. carlie says

    Tony – we were both SO EXCITED about it, because we loved the books so much, and then… such sadness. We had seen enough trailers to be wary of it (starting with how the characters were all suddenly in their early 20s instead of early teens), but we didn’t realize how bad it would be, and we went opening night so it was before all of the bad reviews started rolling in.

  349. pHred says

    carlie
    Gosh yes! My son got kicked out of two afterschool programs and a couple of summer camps as well. He was the “kid who melts down all the time.” Some places are willing to adapt to include him but so many are not. And he is just so easy to pick on. He is getting better but still has a terrible time with being called names.

    OMG – yes my daughter likes to chew on her shirts too! I wish I could confine it to her cuffs – she will actually pull up the middle of her shirt and chew on that too.

    I just spent way, way too much money on a bunch of cute organic cotton clothes with no prints, folded seams and loose styling, for her that I am praying or whatever the equvalient wording should be, will work for her. She was really sad last night that she “doesn’t have a cool style” like the other girls at school. I am crossing my fingers that in 5-7 business days she will have clothing that she can wear and that she thinks looks good too.

  350. Tony! The Immorally Inferior Queer Shoop! says

    jonmilne:
    Your creationist correspondent is woefully misinformed and/or ignorant of some basics of general science, let alone evolution. He has dismissed the theory of evolution out of hand, despite the mounds of support, while accepting ID as anything other than myth. I wonder if he understands what counts as evidence? Does he know what a hypothesis is…or a theory?
    He is way out of his depth, but thinks he knows what he is talking about. Given that his opinion lacks any support, I wonder how far you will get with him.

  351. says

    @279:

    I told him he probably had cold dead hands because of his insistence on his right to bare arms.

    That made me laugh. Excellent riposte! I intend to steal it.

  352. carlie says

    pHred – we also have being kicked out of two summer day camps on the resume. One I had to go drive to the lake to pick him up in the middle of the day for, even though Child 1 was also there. Have you looked into chewies to minimize the clothes damage? We got an extra-strength one to use at home, which helped quite a bit. Some of it looks like jewelry, which makes it easy for girls to have at school. The pencil toppers weren’t a hit, but if they work, it’s just high-strength tubing that fits on the end of a pencil, which you can get at a hardware store for less than a dollar.
    HOLY SHIT. I was just looking around for other resources, and now there is a freaking fabric chewable wristband OMG.

  353. Esteleth, statistically significant to p ≤ 0.001 says

    The janitor is walking down the hallway, whistling “We Wish You A Merry Christmas.”

    Uh.

  354. pHred says

    carlie

    That is awesome! I doubt that she would be allowed to have loose chewies but the jewelry work wonderfully! She already tries to chew on necklaces and bracelets. Now I wouldn’t be worrying that she was going to choke or poison herself. Thank you !!!

  355. carlie says

    pHred – that’s awesome if it will help! Back when chewing was more of an issue for us the only option was the spirally one – I love the pendant versions that are available now. Pretty! :)

  356. Ogvorbis: Apologies Available for All! says

    mouthyb:

    I apologize. One of the sure signs that I am in a depressive episode is when I totally fail to grok an obvious common idiom. Sorry. My bad.

    ——

    I just got the two books I ordered pre-unemployment: Brusatte’s Dinosaur Paleaobiology (2012) and Grande’s The Lost World of Fossil Lake (2013). The latter is even autographed by Lance Grande. Gives me more to read. Lots of time to read right now. Not sure why.

    Oh. Right. The Teaparty destruction of the US Government continues apace.

  357. dianne says

    It seems that the business lobbies that got the tea party elected are regretting it. They put fanatics in power and found that they couldn’t control them as well as they hoped. Gee? Who could have seen that one coming? It’s not like we have famous historical examples (Nazis in Germany 1930s) or recent examples in US history (Afghanistan in the 1980s and the rise of al Qaeda) or anything. I’d have nothing but schadenfreude if the problem weren’t destroying the US and possibly the world economy…

  358. thunk (sigh) says

    pHred, Carlie:

    Yeah, dealing with a society that doesn’t accept non-NT people is horrible–from all sides. My support for you and your children (who are undoubtedly feeling more horrible). *giant pile of hugs*

    And some object-chewing solidarity :P

  359. thunk (sigh) says

    Honestly, my main issue is not being able to lose.

    It might sound trivial, but it means I can’t play sports or games without running a risk of ruining things for everyone and/or getting kicked out. even academic competitions are hard like this. (It’s gotten a lot better though)

  360. pHred says

    thunk,

    Hi :) Thanks

    I understand that. One of my son’s friends has that issue too. Where my son will tend to hurt himself if he loses, the friend can get violently upset and act out if he loses. It can be an interesting (and stressful) dynamic. They mesh really well, unless they are competing at something. We have to be very careful in how we design games for them to play, working towards coping skills so some day they can do this without our intervention. Fingers crossed.

  361. says

    Hehe, the little one chews the collar of one of her jackets. But since it’s only that one item I guess the jacket’s asking for it. Those jackets, we bought identical ones for both, they are great quality. They’re water resistant, snuggly and even after they’ve been washed 20 times they look like new. Except for that one collar…

    He was the “kid who melts down all the time.”

    I have this nagging feeling that #1 gets away with this because small and skinny girls are allowed to cry…
    +++
    In other news, I’m the worst child ever. Again.
    My crimes:
    Because I’m going to have a helluva term I will only visit ONCE a week, can you imagineß
    And I’m not going to allow a drinking alcoholic to pick up my kids, drive in a car with them and take care of them.
    Furthermore we invited my sister to Mr.’s birthday dinner.
    CAN YOU IMAGINE???
    So, I’m getting the silent treatment again.
    Once, when I was still hoping that we could work this out I told her taht one of the things that damaged me was the silent treatment, taht she would ignore me until I came begging for forgiveness, swearing that I loved her. She flat out denied that it ever happened (then she hung up the phone and didn’t call back).

  362. says

    blf@288

    This is the cat whom [spawn] misses so much that it’s hard to take vacations for more than 1–2 days; after a day or so he starts to melt down and begs us to go home.
    I fear to think what would happen if [cat] were to get really, really sick.

    Flying lessons, trebuchet launched, penguin, deranged, mildly, instructor, comes to mind.

    (Midair technicolour yawns onto the passing landscape an optional and free extra.)

    Ah, blf, I think you’re trying to be supportive. I know and understand ever word, but put together like that … my non-NT mind can’t parse that AT ALL. Ah, in case it wasn’t clear: cat issue separate from school issues, but same child and manifestation of similar underlying issues.

    Giliell@316, ah, yes, “baby olympics” … we also declined to participate. Yeah, if I’d know that I was supposed to retain detailed knowledge of exact dates for this and that I guess I should have written it down. Especially given my propensity for a very poor memory.

    we also have being kicked out of two summer day camps on the resume

    Ours was only once directly kicked out because he was never away without me in attendance (Cub Scout day camp/Boy Scout overnight camp). I signed up as a leader and each year scheduled a week of summer vacation to cover camp because I knew that there was no way he could participate without someone who understood his issues. And even then a blowup lead to a mutual dissolution from that organization as well.

    Hmmm. Chewies and clothing chomping. Luckily hasn’t been one of our issues. Though that probably explains the post-doc down the hall.

  363. says

    Oh, Ogvorbis, really. It’s okay. No harm, irritation, frustration or other negative feels engendered.
    _____________________________________________________________________

    On the kids that don’t quite fit the Aspie pattern: one of the big departures between myself and my son has to do with socialization. I’m insular as hell–I’m happy to be wrapped up in my obsessions and skip social contact all together most of the time (I tend to get enough for me by going to class.) At parties, I’ll only be there if I have to be, and I’ll be in the corner, reading.

    My son really wants to make friends. He’s chatty and has no problem approaching other kids to talk to them. I’m constantly having to remind myself that social contact is a thing other people like to do often (I’m good with going out three times a year with friends.)

    He doesn’t chew things, but he still wants to suck his thumb when stressed. He did get kicked out of his first preschool for melting down, as well (1st day, 45 minutes in–they attempted to pick him up and force him to move off the playground.) I’m trying to suggest what I do (patterned finger touching and tapping) instead, but it doesn’t appear to work for him.
    ________________________________________________________________

    I have trouble losing, as well. So does my son. I am very careful how I engage when I compete, so that I only partially engage on almost everything.

  364. awakeinmo says

    Two little green assassin bug nymphs just bit my dog on the toe. Boy, did she cry. She seems OK, but does anyone know of remedies beyond a cool washcloth to make her paw more comfy?

  365. The Mellow Monkey: Non-Hypothetical says

    Threadrupt rambling:

    I’ve been trying to come to grips with some aspects of my personality and identity. They make me feel like some sort of inhuman monster, though. I love my partner, but I find that I have absolutely no desire to be in a relationship with him. And the same goes for pretty much every other person on the planet. I’m glad they exist, I want them to be happy, there are some of them that I enjoy spending (limited) time with, but emotional obligations are just completely unappealing to me.

    This has been weighing more heavily on my mind lately, because my partner wants to move to northern California and get a family started. I love him and yet I can’t see any reason why I’d want to do any of this. Give up my home, simply to continue a relationship? Give up control of my body to some other hypothetical person, just so I can add yet another emotional obligation? Can’t we just both exist and like that we both exist without me having to sacrifice my day to day life?

    When I try to picture what would make me happy, it involves living even further out into the woods than I do now, in a house too small to share with anyone. I am not a misanthrope. I just don’t feel like I’m gaining anything from normal interpersonal relationships. Sometimes I want hugs or physical affection. I have a lot of empathy and care about people and don’t want them to be sad or hurt. I just also don’t care about maintaining relationships.

    This makes me sound so horribly selfish, but I swear it’s not that. Just by maintaining relationships with people I’m already sacrificing so much, since I don’t get any psychological reward from interpersonal obligations. Knowing I’m expected to talk to someone or spend time with them at some point just makes me feel panicked and trapped.

    And the deadline for all the big sacrifices (moving, babies, etc) is looming.

  366. Nutmeg says

    Mellow Monkey:

    emotional obligations are just completely unappealing to me.

    Give up control of my body to some other hypothetical person, just so I can add yet another emotional obligation? Can’t we just both exist and like that we both exist without me having to sacrifice my day to day life?

    Knowing I’m expected to talk to someone or spend time with them at some point just makes me feel panicked and trapped.

    Oh, I hear you. Big time. I have no idea how to figure it out either.

    *hugs* if wanted.

  367. blf says

    dontpanic@62, The mildly deranged penguin herself explains: “Cats are being taught to fly. Liftoff is accomplished by shooting the kitties out of a trebuchet. Great amusement usually accompanied by yowling. This is a short holiday for the kitties (only a few minutes), and the yowls make it easy to track the flight. Hence, the spawn and the cat can have fun without being separated for too long. At least at first. By increasing the distance on subsequent flights each becomes accustomed to the other not being nearby.

    “Cats unaccustomed to flying sometimes get airsick. There is no extra charge when they vomit in midair.”

    (No cats were harmed by the writing of this comment, albeit the mildly deranged penguin did accidentally squash a passing zebra when resetting the trebuchet for the next lesson.)

  368. Parrowing says

    *braces self for simultaneous pouncehugs from Tony and cicely while attempting a hand wave to FossilFishy… this is harder than it sounds.

    *

    Thanks, Giliell, kittehserf, and Walton!

    *

    Yup, those are my kitties, kittehserf! Here’s a more recent photo. They handled the move pretty well but we keep telling them that was a practice run for the next move, which will be cross-ocean.

  370. dianne says

    This makes me sound so horribly selfish

    No it does not. It makes you sound like someone who knows what xe wants and what xe doesn’t and isn’t willing to be manipulated into doing something entirely wrong for xerself. I know you didn’t ask me, but don’t do it! Once someone starts in on the “if you REALLY loved me you’d…” they never stop. If you can’t find a compromise that satisfies both your needs and a lot of both of your desires…find a new relationship. Sorry if I’m being harsh or oversimplistic and, of course, please tell me to butt out if you want to. (And flush any advice that doesn’t work for you.)

  371. carlie says

    mouthyb – my son also likes to be social, which is what threw us off of even thinking along the autism line for a long time. The therapist who diagnosed him (it was a team, actually, because it was a teaching center) said that the actual characteristic is misunderstanding of appropriate interactions; most people on the autistic spectrum veer towards noninteraction, but overinteraction is the same symptom in the other direction (like how he wanted to hug and kiss her at their first meeting).

    On losing – we realized early on that team sports were not even to be attempted. On advice of a psychologist friend, we got him into taekwondo, which is individual. It was fantastic for him to learn self-control, and the place we took him to is known to be extremely disability-friendly. We did have one horrid blowup a couple of years ago with another kid wherein there was screaming and crying and everything was awful, but they did not kick either child out, and the next night when I ate crow to go apologize to the other parent (even though I was positive it was HIS kid’s fault), it turned out that BOTH kids were autistic, and therein lay the problem, and we both laughed and cried about it and all the other parents thought we were weird.

  372. The Mellow Monkey: Non-Hypothetical says

    Nutmeg @ 366 – *hugs* Thanks. It helps a bit just knowing I’m not the only one with this struggle.

  373. A. Noyd says

    The Mellow Monkey (#305)

    I’ve been trying to come to grips with some aspects of my personality and identity. They make me feel like some sort of inhuman monster, though.

    Well, from my perspective as an antisocial aromantic asexual, you sound perfectly normal. (Except for wanting hugs and physical affection. That’s weeeird.) Not only do I dislike maintaining relationships, but I tend towards autism-like meltdowns if I have to socialize for days on end without the chance to retreat to a familiar and comfortable place of my own.

  374. dianne says

    He was the “kid who melts down all the time.”

    I got that one as a kid too. In fairness to them, it was probably true, but I’m still scared of large groups of small children because I see them as groups seeking a victim to attack. I have trouble leaving my kid at school, despite the fact that she’s actually quite social and gets along with most kids, because I’m afraid of how they might treat her.

  375. The Mellow Monkey: Non-Hypothetical says

    A. Noyd @ 373

    I tend towards autism-like meltdowns if I have to socialize for days on end without the chance to retreat to a familiar and comfortable place of my own.

    Ogods. Sometimes just having a perfectly pleasant dinner with people will leave me an absolute wreck afterwards, as if I’ve suffered some kind of deep social violation.

    I know I’m not asexual (I have attractions to people, even if I’m satisfied with talking or writing letters to one another rather than actually doing something so invasive as touching), but perhaps aromantic is a good description for how I feel. I care deeply about the people in my life, but there’s just no desire for a romantic connection. As near as I can tell, the relationship itself is supposed to be some sort of reward for romantic people and…it’s not for me.

    Which is a bummer when I’m in a years long relationship and absolutely love and do not want to hurt my partner.

  376. says

    MM
    You’re not selfish.
    You’re you and I think it’s wonderful that you’re able to say out loud what you want in life.
    You’re being a responsible person in not involving yourself in a situation where you cannot give what is needed.

  377. says

    Carlie:

    Caine – IT HAS BEEN OBTAINED. Luckily, a nearby library still had a copy. I felt sorry for the librarian, though. She was exhausted and mentioned this was her second job, and after she asked what we needed and I said “The new Percy Jacks…oh, here it is!” *nab* She said “Oh, that’s a new Percy Jackson? I got that in and didn’t even realize…” and kind of trailed off sadly like “Damn, if I had known that I could have had it read already instead of sitting here bored”.

    Aaw. Well, the next one isn’t out until next fall, so it will be a while. I quite enjoyed this one, but I wasn’t impressed by the tap-dancing around Nico, and I think he waited too late in the series for all that. Of course, if he’s planning to kill him, doesn’t matter.

    jste, I decided I wasn’t going to watch the movies, because they planned on fucking every good thing up and changing it all. The books are a fun romp, with a healthy dose of heavier stuff, as you are dealing with young kids growing up at a fast pace in the books. If you love mythology already, they are a delight, and if you don’t know much, you get to learn a lot of mythology, still fun. The reading is fast, the characters have fairly good depth, and there are a fucktonne of them, and they get rotated a lot, like Carlie said, so you don’t get fatigued. Instead, you read faster, if anything, to get back to your favourite characters. I enjoyed the first book, The Lightning Thief, but got hooked on the second one, The Sea of Monsters. I have Mister reading the books now. In my opinion, the books get solidly better as they go along.

  378. cicely says

    Train riders too consumed with phones to see gun
    –
    pteryxx, thanks! I linked most of those (or related articles) for him—but he seems to have fled in confusion. Certainly there’s been no rebuttal, or response of any kind, afterwards. Anyway, it’s possible that the Marcus Wesson case is the one I was remembering poorly; in any case, I’ve linked it for him. Whether he bothers to read it, of course….
    –
    I had it lucky: Son was ADD (but not hyperactive with it), but since I was watching for the possibility—both my brothers were/are ADD/ADHD to one or another degree, my nephews all ditto, ample evidence that my dad and his brother were—we were able to get right on top of it, and got him diagnosed etc. as early as the local school system would allow; and by incredible good luck, his teachers were all on-board with it. Even so, I remember the questionaires, and thinking that if I didn’t have examples to compare his behavior to, how would I know?
     
    Y’all have my sympathy, and my admiration.
    –
    blf:

    The proper music is essential, else the clams are hard to milk, produce little juice, or the juice is so foul-tasting it can be used as a horse-repellent.

    *perking up and taking notice*
    Is it a reliable Horse-repellent? If you deliberately subject the clams to music they dislike, how much repellent can you expect the average clam to produce? And does it require any subsequent treatment? Tips on storage of the finished product?
    –
    jste:

    “Bonking 101 – Students to get ‘ethical sex’ classes”

    Could be the start of something awesome.
    –
    Kevin:

    Oh my fucking god what the hell Dan Snyder and Roger Goodell are both complete idiots.

    Indeed.
     
    I’ve been watching this case for the last while, and while there seems to be some hint of a vague possibility of comprehension in some quarters, Dan Snyder certainly seems to be entrenching-and-rationalizing.
     
    So…how’s about those New Amsterdam Wops, sportsfans?
     
    (Later)
    *hugs* and sympathy for On-the-Job Suckage. I’d send you a back-rub if I could. I’ve heard good things about my back-rubs.
    :)
    –
    *hugs* for Giliell.
    –
    Also *hugs* for Mellow Monkey.
    Also also for Nutmeg.
    Wish I could meaningfully offer more than just moral support and sympathy.
    –
    Parrowing: Your cats are Premium Bananananas?
    :D :D :D
    –

  380. cicely says

    Caine!
    *pouncehugs with chocolate and ratty nibbles*
    I’ve been worried, what with the Freak Blizzard of the Century and all.
    –

  381. says

    MM:

    When I try to picture what would make me happy, it involves living even further out into the woods than I do now, in a house too small to share with anyone. I am not a misanthrope. I just don’t feel like I’m gaining anything from normal interpersonal relationships. Sometimes I want hugs or physical affection. I have a lot of empathy and care about people and don’t want them to be sad or hurt. I just also don’t care about maintaining relationships.

    You aren’t selfish. You simply know what would make you happy, and you know what would make you (and another person) miserable. You aren’t obligated to sacrifice yourself on the altar of someone else’s expectations.

    The only reason I’ve been with Mister for 34 years is that we both have one *big* thing in common – we require vast amounts of space and time alone. Even when he’s home, we generally retire to our specific spaces, meeting up here and there to yak to each other, then gratefully running off to be alone.

  382. blf says

    Nick Clegg, the UK’s deputy PM, has called me a terrorist. He said (emphasis and emboldening mine):

    Clegg … said on LBC’s Call Clegg programme: “I certainly agree that if what you end up doing is publishing very technical information that most Guardian readers, and most of us frankly, would not understand and the only people who would understand are the technicians amongst the terrorists, then what is the public interest in that?”

    Mr Clewless,

    Technically adept people are not all terrorists. Very very few are terrorists. The intelligence services you are defending employ many technically adept people. Are they terrorists?

    The people who invented the Internet, computers, mobile phones, et al.; who win Nobel Prizes; who write STEM textbooks; who work to keep your bank accounts, Pin&Chip cards, et al. safe and secure; who invented the “very technical information”; who… on and on and on — Are they terrorists?

    Well? Are they ? Those people clearly do understand that “very technical information”. And are not terrorists.

    If you wish to make a point, please do so without insulting and demeaning people who are not like you.

    Exceptionally annoyed,
       — One of the world’s many technically adept you have just gravely insulted.

  383. says

    Cicely:

    Caine!
    *pouncehugs with chocolate and ratty nibbles*
    I’ve been worried, what with the Freak Blizzard of the Century and all.

    *hugs back* I’m okay. The storm passed, the power is back, the sun is sort of out again. We just have a considerable amount of tree down on the property, have to get out there and cut it all up.

  384. says

    Speaking of books, has anyone else read the Wereworld series by Curtis Jobling? I’ll be starting the third one tonight, I’ve been enjoying them quite a bit. (More YA books.)

  385. A. Noyd says

    The Mellow Monkey (#275)

    I know I’m not asexual (I have attractions to people, even if I’m satisfied with talking or writing letters to one another rather than actually doing something so invasive as touching)

    Like some asexuals, I still have a libido. I find lots of ideas about sex a turn on and think some bodies and sets of physical features are attractive. I have no desire whatsoever to satisfy my libido with an actual person, though. Fantasies involving wholly imaginary people are okay, but the idea of getting with a real person—even just as a fantasy—turns me off. Actually trying stuff (like I did when I was younger) leaves me cold and squicked out at best.

    I don’t expect you’re the exact same, but this is why I consider myself asexual. It’s not really a category that has a set definition. And even if you do feel sexual attraction and enjoy (some forms of) sex with other people, asexual/aromantic sites might still have some resources for how to deal with your current relationship. You might also find something on the Captain Awkward blog.

  386. blf says

    Is it a reliable Horse-repellent? If you deliberately subject the clams to music they dislike, how much repellent can you expect the average clam to produce? And does it require any subsequent treatment? Tips on storage of the finished product?

    The horses get used to an individual clam’s fouljuice, so you have to keep changing clams. And music. And even when the clam is happy, it doesn’t produce too much juice. Well, Ok, the Monster Clams of Central Mongolia do produce a lot of juice, possibly because they are surrounded by horses, but that juice doesn’t really repel horses so much as make them slip, fall down, and slide away.

    And it degrades quickly. Storage in a pea-proof bottle in deep freeze is reputed to work, but throwing lumps of frozen fouljuice isn’t very effective. (Unless it is at PETA-types protesting about the clam-torture…)

    Clams can get very annoyed when the music is bad. Having a Monster Clam of Central Mongolia squish you, whilst nowheres as bad as being near a horse, still isn’t really much fun.

    Nuking from orbit is much less hassle.

  387. cicely says

    Nuking from orbit is much less hassle.

    *sigh*
    I suppose so.
     
    Easy answers so seldom work….
    –

  389. awakeinmo says

    To The Mellow Monkey (and those in similar situations)

    I can’t say I know exactly what you’re going through. But you’re not doing your relationship/your loved one any favors by compromising your core needs. If you would be miserable, it’s likely your relationship with your partner would be miserable as well.

    I wish I could offer some real concrete advice. The best I can do is suggest you weigh your options, be honest with yourself and your partner, and know that there are lots of folks around here who are willing to listen.

  390. Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought says

    Omgomgomg, I think this job is pretty much in the bag unless I fucked it up today. They asked me basically nothing, thanks to already knowing me a bit from the work they are doing with my current workplace, and getting a couple of references from there. Since the whole conversation was oriented towards them offering me a job, I’m afraid I was too awkward/inappropriate in the end, telling them I’ll call. The thing was, they were asking how soon I can start, and the ball was pretty much set in my court to decide whether I want to work for them, so I figured I have to call them and not wait for their call.

    I am now questioning every single little thing I said, not just that one and being scared out of my mind that I did or said something wrong.

    Oh, and I forgot to ask about an important thing about the kind of contract we’d sign. Another thing to beat myself up about.

    I’m so not going to sleep tonight, wondering what I did wrong and how stupid stupid stupid I am.

    *sigh* Take a good thing and turn it into self-hate.

  391. says

    MM: It’s not selfish at all to know one’s boundaries and to refuse to take on something that has a high probability of causing problems or violating one’s boundaries. And let me tell you, having a baby is ALL kinds of boundary violating. Men often seem to grow up thinking that childbirth is a wonderful, blissful experience for women and siring children should be a part of their becoming men–don’t let him talk you into anything.
    _________________________________________________

    On the libido discussion: I don’t like being touched by people I don’t know, but I really, really like sex. I typically don’t want to be touched afterward or hugged (I’ll cuddle sometimes spontaneously, but mostly I’m humoring the other person even though hot!sweaty!tired!) I have very strong boundary issues and like to be in control of how sweaty time happens. I reserve the right to interview the shit out of the person first. People who insist on touching me without warning or without checking to see if its okay are risking self-defense moves.

    People seem to think that this sort of formal requirement signals a lack of intimacy or the inability to have intimacy. I do just fine in that respect (it takes me a little while to get close, but I can make that adjustment and often do for people), so I always get annoyed when someone who is used to people with less rigid boundaries thinks I’m ‘defective’ when I insist that they stop getting in my space or ask for permission to do so.

    Anyone else have people insist that requirements for personal space and/or consent makes them incapable of intimacy? I can’t count how many times someone has insisted that I’m not romantic (despite surprise gifts and the like) because I want to talk about this shit up front and need personal space.
    _________________________________________________

    carlie: Ah, that makes more sense. He wants to talk to, hug and otherwise be best friends with EVERYBODY, including people next to us in their cars at stop lights.

  393. David Marjanović says

    Yay! Manuscript reviewed in record time! Now I have no manuscripts to review right now* and can work for myself!

    I’ll start by planning my America trip.

    Austinites! Assuming the country doesn’t go bankrupt till then, I’ll show up in Austin for 5 days – in all probability the first week of November – to gaze upon fossils in the collection of the museum (which isn’t in the museum, but on Pickle Research Campus). I want to meet as many of you as possible! :-)

    I haven’t booked any flights or accommodation yet, and I won’t have a car.

    * Except for that book chapter… but there’s no deadline on that.

    I reserve the right to interview the shit out of the person first.

    *clenched-tentacle salute*

  394. ledasmom says

    And I noticed someone at the main opening plenary lecture who was sitting several rows in front of me, a guy who looked to be in his late 20s, who was sitting there calmly and contendedly, chewing on his shirt collar the entire time.

    I do that. I try not to do it in public, but if I’m watching tv or reading or on the computer, I’m quite likely to have my t-shirt collar in my teeth.
    We have two kids who are on the spectrum with elements of ADHD, and when we had to fill out the many, many pages of questions on the younger one I couldn’t help thinking: You have given 15-20 pages of forms to us to find out if our kid is on the spectrum/ADHD/whatever. We are here because we have a lot of reason to suspect that kid is as above. There is a strong family history of such things. His brother’s already diagnosed. What on earth makes you think you’re getting accurate answers after the first page or so when you give us these amazingly boring forms? You have given all these forms to a woman who cannot talk without pacing and a man who can’t pick up stuff from the floor for five minutes without getting sidetracked!

  395. Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought says

    http://www.katu.com/news/local/Joe-Bell-killed-on-walk-to-honor-Jadin-Bell-227255411.html

    KIT CARSON, Colo. – Joe Bell had a message for gay teens suffering from bullying who might be contemplating suicide: “It’ll get better.”

    He was spreading that message during a walk across the country – from Oregon to New York City.

    Joe was walking in honor of his son Jadin. The 15-year-old boy was gay and suffered from bullying. He hanged himself on a La Grande school playground in January.
    …
    Joe Bell was walking along a rural highway in Colorado on Wednesday evening when he was struck by a semi-truck and killed.

    That’s so incredibly sad.

  396. says

    Mouthyb:

    I typically don’t want to be touched afterward or hugged

    Aye, that’s me. It was a wrangle with Mister, because he’s a serious cuddle bug. I’m the complete opposite.

  397. carlie says

    You have given all these forms to a woman who cannot talk without pacing and a man who can’t pick up stuff from the floor for five minutes without getting sidetracked!

    Part of our diagnosing was observation of him at play, part of the time with me. They told me that I did too much work for him straightening and organizing all of the toys, and that I had to let him struggle himself with dealing with chaos. I was all “Oh, yes, I was doing that for him… ” *blinkblink*

  399. says

    Mouthyb:

    Caine: I don’t mind some cuddling, but when I’m sweaty and catching my breath is not cuddle time, you know?

    Yes, I know. I dealt with that by jumping up, grabbing something to drink and announcing it was shower time. I allowed for some cuddle time in the shower, which worked out well enough. I can handle being hugged to pieces while my back is being scrubbed. :D

  400. says

    Caine: Ah! Good idea. Back scrubs (/scratches/good rubs) are distracting in a nice way from the skin creeps I get when something is touching me and being still or (more often) moving just a little bit, as with breathing.

    I still have the ‘breathing on me drives me bonkers’ problem, but that can be dealt with.

  401. Pteryxx says

    random stuffs…

    starting from Salon articles about the undercurrent of racism in the GOP’s complete meltdown over anyone that needs help actually getting it, I’ve been doing some research into how USanian black slavery and hatred worked (because it seems nothing much has changed). So here are some interesting articles for anyone who like me suffered from a typical red-whitewashed-and-blue education.

    Tillman and the Gospel of White Supremacy

    How could these execution-style murders of 1876 serve as the springboard for such extraordinary political advancement — and a legacy of racism that would keep Tillman’s name alive as Pitchfork Ben well into the 20th century? The explanation lies, Kantrowitz believes, in the determination of white men in the post-Civil War South to reclaim what they had lost through emancipation and the experience of Reconstruction: their sense of independent, unfettered manhood. ”Tillman sought to transform the slogan ‘white supremacy’ into a description of social reality, reconstructing white male authority in every sphere from the individual household to national politics,” Kantrowitz, who teaches American history at the University of Wisconsin, Madison, writes. Tillman’s constituents responded to his leadership because they too believed that the end of slavery and the enfranchising of blacks had set loose a threat to white society that had to be checked by whatever means necessary. It took a man like Tillman — an ideologue, an organizer and a terrorist” — to give voice to their fears and to translate their determination into physical and political action.

    Tillman proved to be a master at pillorying his well-bred political opponents — white Negroes,” he called them, or effete urban ”dudes” produced by aristocratic institutions of higher learning like the Citadel or the University of South Carolina. When it came to reforms that might actually help to relieve the farmer’s economic plight, however, Tillman offered precious little: an agricultural college for white men (Clemson), a new school for white women (Winthrop College) and a state-run dispensary system to regulate liquor sales. Almost everything else he proposed had a single goal: the suppression of the state’s black population to a position of permanent inferiority.

    Understanding Mississippi and cotton in the global economy

    COMPLICITY OF WHITE AMERICA

    Most New Yorkers did not care that the cotton was produced by slaves because for them it became sanitized once it left the plantation. New Yorkers even dominated a booming slave trade in the 1850s. Although the importation of slaves into the United States had been prohibited in 1808, the temptation of the astronomical profits of the international slave trade was too strong for many New Yorkers. New York investors financed New York-based slave ships that sailed to West Africa to pick up African captives that were then sold in Cuba and Brazil.

    In addition to dominating the slave trade, New York denied voting rights to its small free black population, which comprised only one percent of the population. New York accomplished this by imposing property ownership requirements for its free black residents, while white New Yorkers had no such restriction. New York’s poor black population was effectively disfranchised. In 1857, seventy-five percent of Connecticut voters elected to deny suffrage to blacks, and even after the Civil War, voters there again denied black male residents the right to vote. Some western states, such as Indiana, Ohio, and Illinois, tried to exclude blacks at the same time they were aggressively recruiting millions of white European immigrants. White America, not just white southerners, helped determine that the destiny of black America would be in the cotton fields of the South for many decades to come.

    (…what the heck, hater peoples? what the actual heck?)

    Lots and lots more resources and pictures at usslave.blogspot.com and Smithsonian magazine’s archive.

  402. The Mellow Monkey: Non-Hypothetical says

    mouthyb @ 391

    I typically don’t want to be touched afterward or hugged

    There are times I like a bit of a cuddle, but that’s not one of them. I also have a hard time even sharing a bed with someone. I do best sleeping in a room alone and actually sleeping in an entire building alone is fantastic. I’m hyper-vigilant, so someone else moving around and breathing and all those other normal things is just…ack.

    Blissful silence and absolutely no chance of anybody doing something foolish like trying to spoon me when I’m sleeping is best.

  404. says

    MM:

    I also have a hard time even sharing a bed with someone. I do best sleeping in a room alone and actually sleeping in an entire building alone is fantastic. I’m hyper-vigilant, so someone else moving around and breathing and all those other normal things is just…ack.

    Blissful silence and absolutely no chance of anybody doing something foolish like trying to spoon me when I’m sleeping is best.

    I did the bed sharing thing for years on end. I have a difficult time getting any meaningful rest as it stands, I’ve been hypnophobic and oneirophobic since early childhood. I’m also hypervigilant, which hardly helps. I have my own small space for sleeping now, where I am alone and it’s quiet (except for the thunderstorm I have playing on my sleepy time app), and it’s much, much better. Mister doesn’t mind terribly, because he’s a bed hog and snores, so we both sleep better on our own.

    I really dislike the automatic assumption that people in a relationship must share a bed. Most people actually *sleep* better when they sleep alone. You can fuck anywhere, but when it comes to sleep, it should be taken seriously and people should feel free to sleep in whatever situation gives them the maximum benefit.

  405. The Mellow Monkey: Non-Hypothetical says

    eeeee ratty naps

    I am, at long last, working my way through all of the Discworld novels. I finished Moving Pictures the other day and am now enjoying Reaper Man. I’ve seen a number of suggested reading orders out there, but I’ve already jumped around a bit so I think I’ll just work my way through in publishing order.

    After Reaper Man I’m going to make myself slow down and allow myself to read one chapter for every chapter I finish writing on my current WIP. Otherwise, I might procrastinate and never get anything done.

    Current novel: A romance murder mystery about a professor and an astronaut. After that I have a sci-fi thriller romance involving an alien and an FBI agent. I decided that if romance novels were going to pay my bills then I would only write ones that made me giggle like a five-year-old when I described them. Thus the one about the pirate wererats on a treasure hunt.

  406. Ogvorbis: Apologies Available for All! says

    The Mellow Monkey:

    I tend to read them in the order in which they were written. I tried the thematic reading approach for Discworld and the style changes were just too jarring. Reading them in order, Pratchett’s writing style evolves slowly enough to keep me from noticing.

    Right now, reading Interesting Times.

  407. says

    MM:

    Thus the one about the pirate wererats on a treasure hunt.

    Works for me. :D

    As I’m working my way through Curtis Jobling’s Wereworld series, the only thing that really bothers me, as usual, are the rats. The wererats are depicted as monstrous, ugly, filthy, skeevy, underhanded, basically, vermin. (Their city is called Vermire, ffs.) I am so fucking tired of that. Everything else gets to be all pretty and noble and striking (even the effing wereshark), but not the rats, no.

  408. The Mellow Monkey: Non-Hypothetical says

    Caine, my rats are the cleverest of all the shifters, as well as fastidiously clean, handsome (by their own standards), loyal, cuddly and keen on fairness. Not too keen on property rights, mind you, but they’ve got fairness* down to an art form.

    * Disclaimer: Rat fairness and human fairness may not be compatible concepts.

  409. kittehserf says

    Nick Gotts @279 – I told my boss about the baring arms thing, and he said there should be a campaign to arm bears.

    I’m all for it.

    gobi’s sockpuppet meatpuppet @301 – gakk, having to replace insulation! Pain indeed. What critter was it, a possum?

    I’m so not looking forward to summer. Not that I ever have – I still cringe thinking about those long walks home from high school when there was no damn shade anywhere – but after the very mild, wet winter we had, a hot summer plus lots of fire fuel is a scary prospect. Just as long as it doesn’t turn into a repeat of 2009…

    No worries about the typo. ‘Sbetter than kittehsurf. I iz a bonded tenant of the feline overlords, not a person wot stands on a board on water. :P

    awakeinmo @ 346 – that knitting is so cool! I had to read the title for the Pan Hat ‘cos I thought it was a Brain Hat, then saw the horns and went “wut?” :D

    Martini’s a cutie, too.

    Parrowing @368 – d’awww kitties!

    Where are you heading OS?

    Caine @392 – that Keya is really handsome.

    Drat, I have to go to a doctor’s appointment shortly. Signing all my medical enduring power of attorney (or is it enduring power of medical attorney?) and getting the results of a liver ultrasound. Still, at least if doc’s running really late at this time of day, it just means missing more time at work, instead of missing several trains and not getting home till flippin’ 7pm!

  410. says

    MM:

    Caine, my rats are the cleverest of all the shifters, as well as fastidiously clean, handsome (by their own standards), loyal, cuddly and keen on fairness. Not too keen on property rights, mind you, but they’ve got fairness* down to an art form.

    * Disclaimer: Rat fairness and human fairness may not be compatible concepts.

    That’s as it should be. Rats are clean, they clean themselves more than cats do. Property rights, well, they are similar to dragons in that regard, when it comes to having a hoard. Rats enjoy having a private hoard, but they also believe in having one very large communal hoard as well. When it comes to anyone else’s property, ummm, well, the concept disappears somewhat. Like the quote goes “Whatever isn’t nailed down is mine, and whatever I can pry up isn’t nailed down.” Rats would find that philosophically agreeable.

    On a more serious note, you can always tell which authors have experience with rats and which ones don’t. Rats are extremely social beings, and that never shows well with authors who lack experience.

  412. The Mellow Monkey: Non-Hypothetical says

    Caine

    Rats are extremely social beings, and that never shows well with authors who lack experience.

    Oh yes. And with complex social interactions, too. They’d put some primate species to shame. They definitely have more interesting social hierarchies than wolves, who are the ones normally written in admiring tones. Pigs are another one that tend to get portrayed badly, with them so often being dirty and stupid. There are many very unpleasant things I could say about pigs, but “dirty and stupid” don’t apply.

    There’s no good reason to malign an intelligent animal with bad human stereotypes. Any animal I write about as having human intelligence or being a were-something, I try to ensure I’m familiar with how the animal actually is rather than how people think they are. It’s much more fun that way, especially with the animals that so often get bad portrayals.

  413. Nutmeg says

    Mellow Monkey:

    perhaps aromantic is a good description for how I feel. I care deeply about the people in my life, but there’s just no desire for a romantic connection. As near as I can tell, the relationship itself is supposed to be some sort of reward for romantic people and…it’s not for me.

    Can you just keep putting my thoughts into coherent words for a while? You’re so close to being in my head it’s creepy. :)

    I’m not sure yet if I will feel this way forever and it’s just how I am, or if the right person would make me feel differently about relationships. I’m not giving up on dating, but I do wonder whether I’m a relationship type of person or not. And sex is a whole other conundrum.

    ***

    mouthyb:

    People who insist on touching me without warning or without checking to see if its okay are risking self-defense moves.

    Anyone else have people insist that requirements for personal space and/or consent makes them incapable of intimacy?

    Yep. I can handle touching if I see/hear it coming, and if I’m not stressed out. But my ex got offended a couple of times when she touched me unexpectedly and I reacted badly. I was not impressed with her response (being sad about me pulling away instead of sorry that she startled me).

    All of the non-dating people in my life have been trained out of unexpected touching. It generally only takes one or two bad reactions for people to remember that, “Oh yeah, Nutmeg will nearly dislocate my arm if I throw it around her shoulder when she’s not looking.”

    And on the personal space/intimacy side of things, my ex couldn’t deal with the idea that when I have a problem, what I need most is space to figure it out on my own. She thought that she should be helping me with it, and then she got sad, and then I had to let her help me, except letting her “help” actually created more stress for me. No wonder she’s an ex now.

    In case you can’t tell, I need to learn to be more assertive in dating-type relationships and actually tell people when their behaviour is not okay with me.

    ***

    *hugs back* for cicely

  414. says

    Morgan @ 411, that looks like one helluva sneeze coming on, but that is one of the cutest damn things I’ve ever seen. Thank you. :D

    MM:

    Oh yes. And with complex social interactions, too. They’d put some primate species to shame. They definitely have more interesting social hierarchies than wolves, who are the ones normally written in admiring tones. Pigs are another one that tend to get portrayed badly, with them so often being dirty and stupid. There are many very unpleasant things I could say about pigs, but “dirty and stupid” don’t apply.

    Very true. Wolves have a very simple social structure, which serves them well. In comparison, rats are complex. As for pigs, aye, they are neither dirty or stupid. Often ruder than all hells though.

    There’s no good reason to malign an intelligent animal with bad human stereotypes. Any animal I write about as having human intelligence or being a were-something, I try to ensure I’m familiar with how the animal actually is rather than how people think they are. It’s much more fun that way, especially with the animals that so often get bad portrayals.

    I really wish more authors were like this, especially when they are going to write animal based stories.

  415. smhll says

    @ Mellow Monkey

    It’s okay to need your space and its okay not to just sweetly submit to making your partner’s dreams come true at the expense of your own (or at any expense). (I have a little bit of resentment in my heart towards some semi-fictional earlier generation of women who convinced their sons that they would be absolutely delighted to make them sandwiches and pick up their dirty socks at any time. Sheesh, what were they thinking?)

    I live in N. Calif and I love it, but people who don’t like it complain about the very high cost of living and the rather repetitive (but great) weather and no sense of the seasons changing.

    I have a dark attraction to fretting and considering the worst case scenario. If we imagine that you moved to my neck of the woods and had a baby and hated that and separated, would your partner be enthusiastic about taking 100% custody and responsibility for a demanding toddler? Or might he bolt? (It’s lucky that he’s anonymous here, because I’m the kind of aggravating person that would be sorely tempted to corner him at a party and start poking him with questions. The urge to be meddlesome is strong in me.)

    I feel that our culture seriously underplays how hard caring for an infant is. For me, I had almost no energy and no time for myself for the first four months. And my kid didn’t sleep through the night for years. Also, my whole life completely changed. (My kid is great and I am delighted with him, but I think the decision to have a kid is something that some people may make too lightly and optimistically. I think some studies show that parents are less happy than non-parents, at least until the kids move out.)

    It makes sense to me that people who had happy childhoods or who enjoy their extended families are more pro-kid than people who didn’t enjoy being kids. YMMV.

  416. says

    smhll:

    It makes sense to me that people who had happy childhoods or who enjoy their extended families are more pro-kid than people who didn’t enjoy being kids.

    In a lot of cases, I think that’s true. In others, people who come from a large group of siblings want nothing to do with that many sprogs.

    Mister is the oldest of eight, and he would have been fine having sprogs, but he was also fine with my firm decision that I would never have any. We’ve been happily childfree for 34 years, no regrets.

  417. The Mellow Monkey: Non-Hypothetical says

    smhll

    My kid is great and I am delighted with him, but I think the decision to have a kid is something that some people may make too lightly and optimistically. I think some studies show that parents are less happy than non-parents, at least until the kids move out.

    And this here is my big concern: Having kids is not a decision that one can go back on. Hell, I was a member of the LJ community cf_hardcore back in the day. I was very strongly against having children from puberty into my mid-twenties. Then I had to essentially raise my youngest niece for a year and I softened a bit on having kids around, finding that I didn’t really hate them as much as I thought even if I still preferred being able to give them back at the end of the day. And then I got together with my partner and he got all starry eyed at having access to a functional uterus.

    Sigh.

    It’s just not a decision that comes easily to me. Especially not with gentle reminders about how I’m in my thirties and if I put it off too long his beloved functional uterus will no longer be functional. I don’t doubt his feelings for me as a person at all–any time I talk about my doubts he’s very supportive and insists there’s no pressure–but it’s hard for me to not feel objectified.

  418. says

    MM:

    he got all starry eyed at having access to a functional uterus.

    That ‘starry eyed’ may as well be a huge red neon warning sign. It’s a rotten way to go into anything, and certainly not the way to decide on becoming a parent. ‘Starry eyed’ tends to get downright stroppy and run away when smacked up against reality.

  419. The Mellow Monkey: Non-Hypothetical says

    Caine

    ‘Starry eyed’ tends to get downright stroppy and run away when smacked up against reality.

    Yeah, that’s one of my big worries. He’s never spent much time around kids outside of the classroom, let alone babies. Having had my sister’s kids foisted off onto me repeatedly from the time I was ten, I have zero romanticism about the topic. I know that they can make people inclined that way very happy and there truly are parents who are thrilled to have kids, but they are also a hell of a lot of exhausting work and there are no guarantees about anything. They have their own personalities and needs and desires, regardless of what you want or expected. They are tiny people that come with a huge commitment.

    It’s like having an arranged marriage in which you have to wipe your new spouse’s bottom.

  420. says

    MM:

    Yeah, that’s one of my big worries. He’s never spent much time around kids outside of the classroom, let alone babies.

    You definitely can’t go by kids in a classroom. Your job there is to get them excited, fired up about learning, and that’s a great thing to see, but it has jack all to do with full time parenting.

  421. says

    MM

    After Reaper Man I’m going to make myself slow down and allow myself to read one chapter for every chapter I finish writing on my current WIP. Otherwise, I might procrastinate and never get anything done.

    You may have some difficulty with this; most of the Discworld books haven’t got chapters.

  422. thunk (sigh) says

    hi all! *pouncehugs those who consent to it*

    well. ugh me.

    body yesterday was like “HAHA I won’t let you sleep”

    and now it’s protesting that it didn’t get enough…

    …know why early morning school hours are ageist?

    I usually like sleeping and dreaming, but I guess I’m on edge from new house. even though it is better.

  423. says

    Ugh, was cheering myself on the back for starting to trace the contours of my recent traumas, but I can tell I’m slipping again. Back to being depressed and not having any way of knowing why. Back to trying to hide my emotions for some sick sense of propriety. Back to just shaking and being so tense my back is ready to go out and having no way to stop it.

    And I don’t even know what the hell triggered it. All I can think of was the thing here on Tuesday, but that’d be fucking stupid.

    Fucking brains, man, when they fuck around on you, they don’t kid.

    P.S. Sorry for dumping this here, but I figured if my brain was fighting saying something like that this much, I probably should say it. I dunno. My brain’s been weird lately.

    On a happier note and responding to the conversation, yay, Pratchett! That reminds me, I got Snuff for my birthday and should give it a read.

  424. says

    thunk @422

    I remember there being a bunch of research about the way that school schedules don’t actually match the ideal sleep cycles for teenagers and showing how much would be improved educationally by just shifting back the classes a couple of hours and pair it with the end of parent’s work instead of the beginning.

  425. The Mellow Monkey: Non-Hypothetical says

    Dalillama

    You may have some difficulty with this; most of the Discworld books haven’t got chapters.

    And here I thought my ebooks had become garbled somehow. I guess I’ll be using the timer app on my Nook, then!

  426. Ogvorbis: Apologies Available for All! says

    Cerberus:

    You have my sympathy. I’m down there right now, trying to, both here and with family, sound and look and behave as though I’m okay. Sometimes I know what sets me off, soumetimes it comes in out of the blue.

    @ 423

    Sorry for dumping this here, but I figured if my brain was fighting saying something like that this much, I probably should say it. I dunno. My brain’s been weird lately.

    Don’t apologize for ‘dumping’ here. It isn’t dumping, it is being part of a community, a family. The difference is, with this family, you can walk away for an hour or a day or a week and it all still works. You have my sympathy and support. I really do know what you mean about the cycles of depression (of course, I always notice that I’m in deep because conversations, both here and in meatspace, miss). Take care of you. You are important and loved.

  428. cicely says

    Just a quick note before I go to watch Elementary:
     
    I took a nap, this afternoon. (Because I was tired, that’s why. Don’t judge me!) And I had a dream, about a Pharyngula meet-up here in S’field (but not associated with Skepticon), for astronomy, whale dissection, and (non-whale-related) barbecue.
     
    And the reason for the whale dissection was that somehow, a whale (and we’re talkin’ big whale, too!) turned up in Lake Springfield, where in its panic it was Causing Havoc. Clearly, there was no leading the whale back to sea (check out a map and you’ll soon know why), so the city was forced to euthanize it.
     
    (And why and how was there a whale there? Good question! I have to think that our Little Green Friends were bored with playing Hide the Bean, and put it there as a prank.)
     
    The punchline—there we all were, nigh onto a hundred of us…and all too anxious/shy to introduce ourselves to anyone.
    –

  429. carlie says

    “The best known of these is Edina, Minnesota, an affluent suburb of Minneapolis, which changed its high school start times from 7:25 to 8:30. The results were startling, and it affected the brightest kids the most. In the year preceding the time change, math / verbal SAT scores for the top 10% of Edina’s 1,600 students averaged 683/605. A year later, the top 10% of Edina’s 1,600 students averaged 739/761… …getting another hour of sleep boosted math SAT scores of Edina’s Best and Brightest up 56 points, and their verbal SAT score a whopping 156 points. (“Truly flabbergasting,” gasped a stunned and disbelieving Brian O’Reilly, the College Board’s Executive Director for SAT Program Relations, when he heard the results.) And the students reported higher levels of motivation and lower levels of depression. In short, an hour of sleep improved students’ quality of life.”

    source

  430. Nutmeg says

    I’ve always been amazed with the early start to school in the US. In my part of Canada, an 8:30 start is the norm, and that was always plenty early. I had to catch the bus at 7:05 for most of high school.

  431. kittehserf says

    School started at 9am in my day, though judging by the numbers of kids I see around now on the way to work, it seems to have shifted to 8.30, at least for some. Gods, I’m glad those days are long gone. I loathed school.

    cicely – back when I worked at the Museum of Victoria, the preparators had to clean up a whale that had washed up dead on the beach somewhere. It was one hell of a job, and the stench was unbelievable. One of their kids was filmed asking “How long is my dad going to stink for?” They had to burn the clothes they wore, there was simply no getting the smell out ever again.

    (If anyone visits Melbourne, the whale’s skeleton is on display in the front hall.)

  432. says

    Cicely, if it’s a whale, you might be living on top of a portal to Magrathea!

    Thunk, those hours aren’t just ageist, they are a waking nightmare for all of us who are nocturnal by nature. They don’t exactly do a favour for those of us who are insomniacs, either.

  433. says

    cerberus Hugs.

    Survived 5th session of giving cat his medicine (1 pill + 1 squirt of liquid). Cat dislikes pill but really, really doesn’t like the taste of the liquid. He’s definitely feeling better and I’m relatively unscathed.

    Fun thing: Was watching youtube with spawn. To look something up he asked for help spelling “scientist”. Now, I can’t spell out words audibly, I have to write them down and read them. Having no place to type at I popped a firefox window and started typing into google … got as far as “scie” when it made one suggestion: “woman scientist”. Huh.

    Bad thing: I thought work (temporarily) was immune from shutdown through the end of the month because we’re not directly govt workers but a research organization w/ a govt contract. But recently all travel got put on hold and conferences are being cancelled left & right (both as attendees and as sponsors). And rumors are flying that even if we do have $ those actually in the govt department that oversees the contract might shutdown before that (as soon as next week even) and thus take us with them (’cause obviously unsupervised we might just blow up the world … or create a black hole that sucks everything in). [Grump … they saw through our nefarious plan]

  434. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Cerberus:

    And I don’t even know what the hell triggered it. All I can think of was the thing here on Tuesday, but that’d be fucking stupid.

    I’d hope not. I’ve certainly been both triggered and freshly traumatized, in the past, by…

    ….

    …by conversations on here. Yeah.

    If that is it, I certainly don’t think you’re stupid for it. :/

  435. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Thunk, those hours aren’t just ageist, they are a waking nightmare for all of us who are nocturnal by nature. They don’t exactly do a favour for those of us who are insomniacs, either.

    It does seem like the division of society into Morning People and Non-people might be worth addressing at some point, from an efficiency if not a social justice standpoint. >.>

  436. Tony! The Immorally Inferior Queer Shoop! says

    Giliell @361:
    My sympathies.
    A drinking alcoholic…driving…with kids…disbelief a

  438. Tony! The Immorally Inferior Queer Shoop! says

    Caine and/or Mellow Monkey:
    Could either of you elaborate more about the complex social interactions of rats? In catching up with the thread I saw this discussion, but am having trouble grasping it.

  439. Tony! The Immorally Inferior Queer Shoop! says

    Cerberus @423:
    Two thoughts–
    1- sorry to hear your brains are fucking you around. I hope things settle down for you soon.
    2- As Ogvorbis and Dalillama said, no need to be sorry for posting your problems here. We have the time and inclination to listen and the empathy to care.
    ****

    Caine:
    Your earlier comment about sleeping in the same bed not being a requirement for people in a relationship was really interesting.

  440. thunk (sigh) says

    Caine: yeah that too. most people are diurnal so everything has to work that way and a whole heap of TINA.

    starting with no decent nite sky because “ZOMG! no lights=crime!” and curfews, and having a slew of consequences.

  441. Pteryxx says

    Tony: just FYI I searched “social interactions of rats” and got a ton of links back ;> short form IIRC, rats have hierarchies, mixed with males and females living together, they can have friendships, avoid each other, and some don’t have great social skills. Observations come from research and from pet owners who usually have much larger and better enriched colonies.

    http://isamu.weebly.com/rats-interacting-with-other-rats.html

    Zeta rats
    These rats are generally those at the bottom of the pile, but more than this they are often outcasts to a certain extent. In our pet colonies we very rarely see this in it’s extreme form however in the wild these rats are often isolated from companionship and seem to give up and die without a cause. In our pet colonies it is generally seen in a much milder form, with a rat actively avoiding certain rats in the group, mainly the alpha and beta rats. They will still spend time with other rats but should one of the more dominant rats appear, particularly one who has chosen to bully them, they will leave and sleep elsewhere. They can also be the victim of bullying activities, seemingly being chased around and excluded by an individual or group of dominant rats. This position can often be occupied by rats who don’t understand rat social signals so fail at communication.

    http://www.ratbehavior.org/WhatIsMyRatDoingFAQ.htm

    4.3 Why do rats pee on each other?

    It is commonly believed among pet rat owners that when one rat urine marks another, he is claiming dominant status. This urine = dominance belief is probably incorrect because all rats mark each other to some extent. For example, juveniles mark adults, females mark males, males mark females, dominant males mark subordinates and subordinates mark dominants and each other. It is unreasonable to assume that all such marks are claims of dominance.

    Urine marking of fellow rats is probably a complex form of chemical communication whose meaning depends on the identity, age, and status of the marking and marked rat. For example, females tend to urine mark aggressive males with high testosterone, possibly indicating that they prefer such males and would like to mate with them. Young juveniles copiously mark adults, who mark them right back.

    youtube – big and little rat having a discussion

    —-

    seconding Lone Sleepers and Nocturnals Are People Too. why is there supposed to be just one right and proper way to adult? (yes I say that’s a verb)

  442. Tony! The Immorally Inferior Queer Shoop! says

    Cicely @428:
    Odd dream. 100 of us…US…in proximity and we said nothing?

    Just had an intriguing thought along those lines. I have no idea who has met whom, but lets pretend for a minute that no one that frequents Pharyngula regularly has ever met another tentacular commenter. Now imagine many of us were meeting up but for whatever reason we could only identify ourselves with an object, image or icon that was associated with us. In other words, the way I would recognize blf might be a shirt with a cheese eating penguin.

    Trying to think of certain things I associate with certain commenters…
    Cicely–peas or horses
    Caine–rats or needles
    Ogvorbis–fire, scotch, cigar

    I’m thinking Rorschach and opposablethumbs have the easiest iconic images (imagine a shirt with an inkblot or one with two thumbs).

    (Yeah, my brain is odd. I have these strange thoughts.)

  444. Tony! The Immorally Inferior Queer Shoop! says

    Pteryxx:
    Thank you my friend. Very interesting.
    I am now glad humans do not pee on one another as rats do.

  445. blf says

    Like the quote goes “Whatever isn’t nailed down is mine, and whatever I can pry up isn’t nailed down.” Rats would find that philosophically agreeable.

    And being able to transform into forty-feet tall helps considerable in the prying-up…

  446. says

    Good morning or something like that.
    Actually, today Mr. wanted to treat me to a day at the thermal bath, but now me and #1 are sick.
    *grmpf*
    And since the tablet cable is apparently broken I also can’t just go to bed and read. Serious disadvantage of an e-reader.
    Cerberus
    *hugs*
    And yes, it’s totally possible to be triggered by episodes on Pharyngula when they hit home close.

    Caine
    Thanks for the book recomendation.

    Tony
    Yeah, when my sister confronted her about the drinking her first reply was “don’t tell your sister!”. Because yeah, my sister would shut up about her drinking again so she wouldn’t risk mum’s nonexisting chances of getting the kids.

  447. Tony! The Immorally Inferior Queer Shoop! says

    Pteryxx @443:
    Now I am picturing your gravatar hiding under a couch :)

    Having trouble figuring out how to distill Mormom Moments of Madness into an image (without using the actual words) for Lynna…

  449. says

    My kid is great and I am delighted with him, but I think the decision to have a kid is something that some people may make too lightly and optimistically. I think some studies show that parents are less happy than non-parents, at least until the kids move out.

    Word.
    Not only do many people underestimate the huge commitment children are, they also take for granted that their kids will be “normal”. Non-NT or special needs children don’t feature in their plans at all.
    I have a friend who has three kids. While she was pregnant with the 3rd one she found out that her firstborn has severe issues and the newborn turned out more work than most people can handle, being physically and mentally at the stage of a child half her age. That was not what she had planned her life to be, but she and her husband were the ones who made the decision, not the children

  451. Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought says

    Even without thinking of anecdotes, just knowing how family/society expect people to want and have kids is enough to drive me to the conclusion that there must exist a whole lot of people who probably had kids just because they were supposed to.

  452. Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought says

    chigau,
    You’re right. Haven’t even noticed how that sounds.

  453. says

    Tony:

    Could either of you elaborate more about the complex social interactions of rats?

    Rats are naturally social, and are rarely happy being without other rats. There are exceptions to this, of course. Our first rat was solitary, and very closely bonded to both of us, me in particular. Ash would accompany me pretty much everywhere, even outside, which is why he was hoodie trained. Ash would plop down in front of me at least twice a day, and expect to be petted and groomed for a minimum of an hour. He would then spend a considerable amount of time grooming me. He was also a territorial marker, so he peed on me a good deal.

    Most rats easily bond with their human[s], and often with other animals in the house (oftentimes, cats, dogs and rabbits), but they will still miss having other rats. Our current crew are all siblings except for Rubin, who is mother to about half of them, and Havelock, who is father to about half of them. There isn’t much trouble with the alpha male business, and what trouble there is usually comes from Merlin, who takes most after Sam (the other father rat), and Sam was an asshole, all the way through. Rats tend to sleep in a massive pile, they find it comforting. Some rats prefer to sleep in a smaller knot of two or three rats. Vasco, Neville, and Giles tend to sleep in a small knot or alone. Neville tends to gravitate to Havelock, and they spend a lot of time wrestling, chasing each other, and grooming one another.

    Rats build cooperatively, choose a spot for the common hoard and contribute to it daily, take care of each other when injured or ill, and protect each other from any perceived danger. They are very compassionate toward one another, and very protective. At times when I’ve locked up one rat as a punishment for bad behaviour (not something I have to often), if I leave the studio for a small while, about 10 or 15 minutes, then go back in quietly, I’ll hear the locked up rat giving a distress call, and there will be a small army climbing the doors of the condo, answering the call, and trying to unlatch the door. They also play together, running and chasing one another, investigating together, climbing things, wrestle, tickle one another and play tug of war.

    If one rat in a colony is a super asshole alpha, like Sam was, then other rats can, and will be targeted, like in the article Pteryxx found. That shit has to be stomped on, hard. I’ve noted in such cases, that locking up the super asshole rat doesn’t cause the other rats distress, but there’s a marked relief instead. There was no grief in the colony when Sam died, and relations notably relaxed and improved all the way around. A while back, Neville was being bullied, which had been instigated by Merlin. Interceding immediately and having a round of “getting locked up again, Merlin” finally put a stop to it, and if I hear a fuss now, all I have to do is firmly yell “Merlin! Stop!”, Merlin stops and settles down. Basil is the only other one who causes problems, not because he fights, but he grooms too hard, and makes the rat being groomed squeak like crazy. For whatever reason, the squeaking doesn’t get through to him, so I have to stop him when he gets into his grooming groove.

  454. says

    Tony:

    I am now glad humans do not pee on one another as rats do.

    Humans have other ways of marking another person as theirs. It’s not peeing, but just as obvious. As for rats peeing, they do it for a variety of reasons, not least of which is that they require a remarkably large amount of liquid throughout a day, so they are pretty much always ready to pee.

    Rats that free range pee as they explore, providing scent trails not only for themselves, but for other rats. Esme and Rubin would have been lost without Chas, who immediately and happily adopted them both (and they helped him tremendously, he was almost crazed with grief over losing Alfie), and right away, he started fresh pee trails all over the studio for them, so they could follow those and know they were safe.

  455. says

    Pteryxx @441

    I’m nocturnal, and yes, school sucked. I had to be up at 6:30 am, when I’d just gone to bed at 3:00, and I was expected to function.

    Tony @442

    Uhhh… just look for the cat on wheels.

  456. says

    Thanks all for the kind words.

    Sadly, I think being embarrassed by my brain’s responses to things is part of my brain’s trauma responses to things. Which just adds a nice cherry to things.

    Sigh, brain chemistry. What a hoot.

  457. says

    Kittehs:

    Caine @392 – that Keya is really handsome.

    Thank you. Keya (turtle) is important in Lakota culture. Keya carries the weight of the world on its back, and embodies wisdom, good health, longevity, perseverance, and courage. Keya is seen a particularly protective of women’s health. Speaking of, good luck with doctor’s appt. Hope your liver is okay.

  459. Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought says

    We’d have school one week in the morning (8am, later changed to 7:45), one week in the afternoon (usually around 13).
    I liked the morning classes better. I’d get up, go to school, and have the whole afternoon for doing stuff. With classes in the afternoon, even with getting up around 8 or 9, I’d somehow manage to waste most of the morning and it would suddenly be time for lunch and school, then some studying in the evening and the day was over in a second.

  460. kittehserf says

    Caine –

    Thank you. Keya (turtle) is important in Lakota culture. Keya carries the weight of the world on its back, and embodies wisdom, good health, longevity, perseverance, and courage. Keya is seen a particularly protective of women’s health. Speaking of, good luck with doctor’s appt. Hope your liver is okay.

    Is Keya the World Turtle?

    Thanks about the liver. Turned out the ultrasound had a bit of a “duh!” result – it said the liver’s fatty. NO KIDDING, we knew that already. ::rolls eyes::

    Mind you, when I told the tech who did the ultrasound I suspected it was a wild goose chase, he said most of them are. I was taking cough medicine at the time and that can throw blood test results all over the place (hence the ultrasound). He said even Panadol can do that.

    Still, the test didn’t cost anything (‘cos of being referred by my doc to a public hospital – YAY MEDICARE) and it got me a day off work, so double win. ;)

  461. opposablethumbs says

    … makes mental note to get a T-shirt with thumbs on it, just in case … (I actually have a design associated-with-Pharyngula-in-my-head that I rather want to get on a T-shirt, involving a rabbit in the Precambrian – which is that to which my avatar refers :-) )

    Just want to say I agree – oh, how I agree – that having kids changes lives, and not always for the better (I include the kids themselves in this). I am pretty commitment-phobic, and although I care very extremely much about my two spawn and enjoy them more and more as they get older I am also aware that on balance I should probably never have been a parent (at least, I am not and never could be a Proper, Socially Approved parent). Added to which, there’s no denying that the arrival of a disabled younger sibling (when #1 was three years old) has really fucking screwed things up for Spawn#1. I feel very guilty about that.

    It’s a massive, massive commitment, plus also they come without a receipt or guarantee so you can’t take ’em back (plus also they have no off-switch) (or even a pause button). I love them more than anyone else in the world, and they seem to think I measure up (though of course they have no alternative) but I would be the first to say I’m not cut out to be a parent. I am very much with you on this, Mellow Monkey – being “persuaded”/nagged/”encouraged” etc. to take such a big decision in one particular direction is … problematic (and ringing bells). Would it help to do a worst-case scenario in both directions? As in, if I do X and regret it, as opposed to if I do Y and regret it … what would it be like, who would be affected etc.

    Eh, I love having almost-grown-up kids, but it’s a fuck of a job getting there. :-\

  462. says

    Kittehs:

    Is Keya the World Turtle?

    Mmm, sort of. Keya is not part of the Lakota pantheon, nor does she figure in the creation myth. The world turtle is a part of many other tribal creation myths, notably the Northeastern tribes. It’s from them, the phrase Turtle Island, meaning North America. Turtle Island has been adopted by many tribes though, and is commonly used by Indians.

  464. says

    Caine

    Clothing, jewelry, mannerisms, training in expected behaviours.

    So, a scaled down version of signaling that one is a member of this or that tribe? Or, more particularly, “this person is part of my close personal sub-group within the larger group”?

    Am I close, or way off base?

  465. Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought says

    Caine,
    It doesn’t sound like you mean just engagement rings.
    Clothing? Or we’re talking about more than just familial relationships, but also belonging to nations or cultures?

  466. says

    Holy shit, I just realized that downtown Bellingham is the perfect place to just sit and watch. You have so many groups and sub-groups and the interactions between groups and individuals (in as many combinations and situations as you can imagine) is quite fascinating!

    Humans are interesting creatures…

  467. says

    Humans have other ways of marking another person as theirs. It’s not peeing, but just as obvious.

    Absofuckinglutly.
    There’s a brazillion non-creepy ways in which people will change for each other, be it wearing this perfume or not that one…

    chigau

    What a horrible phrase, “start a family”.

    Heteronormative, conservative , misogynistic.
    And such bullshit. We were a family before having kids, we’ll hopefully still be one when they’re grown and out of the house

  468. carlie says

    Argh. fuck everything. I mentioned last month that our water heater broke. At the time, there was once when I thought that the water pattern on the floor was a little odd and it looked like some of the water was originating at the furnace next to the water heater, but I thought surely, the odds of that happening were so slim that it wasn’t possible, and there was so much water leaking from the heater that it could have been in any pattern on the floor.
    Yeah. It was also the furnace. It’s probably an easy fix of something being wrong with the condenser, but we just don’t have the knowhow to do it or anyone who does who lives close enough to ask, and when gas is involved I’m too skittish to try anything new on my own (especially so since a house a few blocks down exploded last year due to a gas leak), so there’s a hundred dollars down just having someone come look at it and probably cleaning off the float or something (if we’re lucky). Argh.

  469. Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought says

    carlie,

    Ouch. *hugs* I’m sorry about more financial woes.
    (first, I typed voes, but it didn’t seem right so I checked and learned:

    voe [vəʊ (Scot) vo]
    n
    (Earth Sciences / Physical Geography) (in Orkney and Shetland) a small bay or narrow creek
    [from Old Norse vagr])

    —
    For Facebook users: FB is still a mess, now with even less privacy.
    http://techcrunch.com/2013/10/10/facebook-search-privacy/

  470. birgerjohansson says

    New York Fed fired examiner who refused to go soft on Goldman Sachs: report http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/10/new-york-fed-fired-examiner-for-refusing-to-go-soft-on-goldman-sachs-report/

    — — — — — — — — —
    South Park allows George Zimmerman to do what he does best: ‘Shoot a young African-American’ http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/10/south-park-allows-george-zimmerman-to-do-what-he-does-best-shoot-a-young-african-american/

    — — — — — — — — —
    Terraforming Earth: Geoengineering megaplan starts now http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22029382.500-terraforming-earth-geoengineering-megaplan-starts-now.html

    — — — — — — — — —
    Scandinavia and the World http://satwcomic.com/sweden-denmark-and-norway

  471. birgerjohansson says

    A strange lonely planet found without a star http://phys.org/news/2013-10-strange-lonely-planet-star.html

    — — — —
    Giant Squid Washes Ashore In Cantabria, Spain (VIDEO) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/04/giant-squid-washes-ashore_n_4044480.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

    — — — —
    Bolivia’s Lake Titicaca yields trove of relics http://phys.org/news/2013-10-bolivia-lake-titicaca-yields-trove.html

    — — — —
    The maths that saw the US shutdown coming http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22029382.400-the-maths-that-saw-the-us-shutdown-coming.html

  472. carlie says

    Thanks, Beatrice. :) It’s not insurmountable, but it’s just an insult coming right now. A company that Spouse applied to and was sure he’d get a job at, but didn’t, opened this week (with all accompanying press coverage that makes it difficult to ignore), and the pay cut state employees got in the last budget round hit my paycheck last week, and Child 1 has a spring school trip that we decided to push the budget edges to let him go on that has its downpayment required today, so we’re feeling a bit more stretched than usual, psychologically as well as budgetarily. At least there’s still a little room on the credit card.

  473. birgerjohansson says

    Cool material: Carbon’s new champion: Theorists calculate atom-thick carbyne chains may be strongest material ever http://phys.org/news/2013-10-carbon-champion-theorists-atom-thick-carbyne.html

    — — — —
    Vast ancient tomb raised from the dead by restoration http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn24379-vast-ancient-tomb-raised-from-the-dead-by-restoration.html

    — — — —
    European hunter-gatherers and immigrant farmers lived side-by-side for more than 2,000 years http://phys.org/news/2013-10-european-hunter-gatherers-immigrant-farmers-side-by-side.html

    — — — —
    Ancient DNA unravels Europe’s genetic diversity http://phys.org/news/2013-10-ancient-dna-unravels-europe-genetic.html
    “None of the dynamic changes we observed could have been inferred from modern-day genetic data alone, highlighting the potential power of combining ancient DNA studies with archaeology to reconstruct human evolutionary history.”

  476. says

    So I’m making plans to move in with Girlfriend. Because of my job, it requires a 60-day background check to go through, yay. Plus I need to ask my apartment how to add someone to my lease.

    And in really shitty news… my credit card bill is insane, and I can’t figure out how to fix it.

  478. says

    @Carlie:

    Worst problem is what I pay every month is immediately dropped back on top with interest. The personal loans I have ability to get have as high, if not higher, interest than my credit card, so it’s not good for me that way.

    I need to call my bank and talk and figure out what I can do.

  480. says

    So, maybe an interesting moral question for y’all.

    I ran out of meds a couple of days ago, and the quirks of the welfare system mean that two of my most important meds are not covered. Together, they’re about $180 or so.

    I went to pick up this month’s prescriptions this morning, with my ex, because that’s how dykes roll. While at the counter, i realized I didn’t have the cash for the two, so I thought I’d just get the one that is covered, and when my partner arrives early next week, we can pick up the other two.

    My partner, who is from a solidly middle-class, gentleman-farmer type background, has in the past shown me the truth of middle-class privilege (over working-class people like me), and today she showed it again.

    Bear in mind, these are narcotics, and powerful ones – I take something like 60mg of oxy-whatever a day just to be able to walk around – so usually, if you can’t manage ’em, they aren’t going to front you any, because narcotics. J, my ex, said to the pharmacist, “Look, she’s going to be able to pick up the other meds on Monday or Tuesday – any chance you could give her enough to get through the weekend, and she’ll pick up and pay for the rest then?”

    And the pharmacist said, “Oh. Well, yes, Cait, you’ve been coming here for a long time (seven years), I know you, I think we can do that.”

    So I came home with the med I could pick up, and enough of the other two to make it to Tuesday.

    See, and I reckon other working-class types here can back me up on this, I grew up thinking that everyone official is against me. My parents taught me that, I saw the things happen to them that backed it up, and I came to believe it. When I go to a government office, I go prepared for combat, to get the things I need. I experience the world as a series of gatekeepers, whom I have to trick or bribe or otherwise get past, to get the things I need to live.

    So it’s really weird to experience life with this level of privilege I’m completely unused to, and I’ve seen it happen time and again: waiting in long lines, my partner would ask if we could use a short line because of my disability. W00t the middle-class! I would have just toughed it out. Tax people chasing? Middle-class privilege to the rescue, “Oh, yes, of course we can take that cheque in a couple of months, we understand.” Meds not covered? Bug the insurance company until they are. Middle-class privilege for the win!

    (and yes, these are absolutely privileges for white middle-class people. POC in the middle classes don’t get them anywhere near as easily).

    Anyone else experienced this? I’m reasonably sure I’m not the only scion of the working classes to be here?

    In the end, I’m just glad I got some meds, cause it was going to be a long, long weekend without ’em.

  481. says

    Caitie
    My parents went from working-class to middle class so I grew up with lots of that privilege. And discussions around here really opened my eyes to that. It’s not only the fact that I can, indeed, safe money by having it in the first place*, it’s also the treatment that comes with being German-German middle-class with an educated accent.
    In the whomping 8 weeks of school so far I’ve managed to fuck up #1’s breakfast twice. And nobody thinks that there’s a problem with me or our family. Can happen to anybody, right? Or, at least, it can happen to anybody who’s a nice white middle-class educated woman.

    *An easy example? The discount markets usually have offers on children’s clothing and they don’t last past the first day of offer. Not my, or other middle-class people problem. I don’t have to look at the date in the calender. I just buy them and safe money. Those who can’t buy them on the 25th will have to buy something more expensive come the first.

    ++++
    And now there’s a mail from my parents sitting in my inbox saying “letter to Giliell and Mr.”. I guess I’m in for being disowned. Again.

  483. Tony! The Immorally Inferior Queer Shoop! says

    Caine @453:
    Wow!
    Complex interactions indeed. Thank you.

    ****
    carlie:
    Sorry to hear about the furnace. I hope the fix is relatively inexpensive.
    ****

    CaitieCat:
    Glad you were able to get both of the medications you needed.

  484. carlie says

    Can happen to anybody, right? Or, at least, it can happen to anybody who’s a nice white middle-class educated woman.

    That’s exactly it. A middle-class good-looking person is probably just caught in a bad timing phase with paychecks, and of course will have enough for the meds next week and isn’t just trying to score free narcotics. But the lower-class one? You never can tell. The middle-class mother yelling at her kids is just having a really hard day, but the lower-class one is a bad parent with anger control issues who probably drinks a lot. The middle-class man who doesn’t have a card to pay with probably just left his wallet at home on the foyer table, but the lower-class one probably doesn’t have a card at all. It’s all the background assumptions wrapped up into one.

  485. carlie says

    Thanks, Tony. Me too!

    School districts are often really bad about these things, too. I can’t count the number of home projects we had to do for my kids for grades that required craft supplies, access to a computer, access to the internet, access to a color printer, access to an adult who could obtain said things for the kid’s project, etc.

  487. Esteleth, statistically significant to p ≤ 0.001 says

    As a kid, I remember having to indicate where it was my parents worked.

    Things stick out.

    “Your dad works at the power plant?”*scorn*
    “Yes, he works in the laboratory. He’s a scientist.”
    *scorn evaporates.*

    “Your mom works at [local community college]?” *scorn*
    “Yes, she teaches there.”
    “Wait, your mother works because she wants to?” *scorn of different variety*

    The fact that both of my parents worked was actually an issue when I was in grade school – parents (mothers, let’s be honest) were expected to routinely come to the school during the day. That my mother came only rarely marked me as one of those kids.

    Later, I go to an elite private college. And then I got people scorning my (broad g-dropping Midwestern) accent. And the fact that I went to a public high school. And the fact that I not only got financial aid, my parents mortgaged their house to pay my tuition.

    —
    Utterly unrelated: “penis beaker” is trending on Twitter. NOPE.

  488. Esteleth, statistically significant to p ≤ 0.001 says

    Also:

    I go to the office because I’m sick. I am told to go home. But my parents both work. And because the county line is also the phone area-code line, and both of my parents work out-of-county, and the school has a “no long-distance calls” policy, I cannot call my parents.

    I am obliged to cold-call random neighbors. And then explain to the office staff that yes, I have a house key.

  489. David Marjanović says

    *heap of hugs for Giliell and Esteleth*

    Haven’t caught up any farther yet. However, I have an update on my Austin trip: I’ll visit the museum Nov. 4 – 8. The accommodation problem is solved :-) I still haven’t booked any flights, but I guess I can start soon!

  491. The Mellow Monkey: Non-Hypothetical says

    chigua @ 450

    What a horrible phrase, “start a family”.

    It is. It’s how my partner talks and even though I don’t agree with that viewpoint it just came out. I’m really sorry. :(

    Re: rats and pee

    A fun thing about them peeing on everyone/thing is that they’re actually able to see UV light. Their urine is visible to them after it dries, so these aren’t just scent markings. There’s also a substance in their tears–the porphyrin secreted by the Harderian gland–that glows pink under UV light. Some of the Harderian gland secretions are also visible to the human eye (it often looks a bit like dried blood to us) and excess amounts are normally a sign of some kind of stress. A little bit is normal, though, and is especially obvious on lighter rats.

    More on porphyrin.

  492. says

    Totally grokked, Esteleth. My mum was the sole adult in our household for much of my childhood, particularly that which came in Canada. It wasn’t until five years later that my mother got involved with a guy who moved in, and with whom I have such a stellar relationship that I call him “my mother’s husband”, because he was no form of dad to me. My bio-father was killed in an accident when I was 15, and even that didn’t soften him. When I told my mother I was trans and a dyke in…’92? It meant that was the last time I ever spoke with him, him yelling at me on the phone for being so selfish as to upset my mother. My mum and sister didn’t speak to me for fifteen years, finally getting back in touch when my mum thought she was dying (she got better).

    He’s 66? now, I think, and a big wheel in some mortgage brokerage or something. of course as soon as he struck big money, he dumped my mum for a newer model.

    Anyway, what it meant being with a single mother was that if either me or my sister got ill, we had to phone a neighbour – my mum had a friend on the same floor of our public housing building who was at home on disability, so she was phoneable – and claim we were going to her apartment. Really, of course, we went home, where I looked after my 3-years-younger sister as I always did until mum got home.

    When she started doing night classes, to finish high school and then get her papers as a CPA, I was pretty much always the caregiver, because we couldn’t afford babysitting. It wasn’t until I went to high school that we lived in an area that had what I thought were ‘really rich’ people living in it; they did things like “buy a used car for their kid on their 16th birthday” and stuff. Crazy money, to me. It wasn’t until I became partnered with a woman from the upper reaches of Toronto’s Jewish community that I was exposed to what ‘really rich’ was like, and our differences were in the end insurmountable.

    There were so many little ways in which I felt the difference with other kids. My winter boots tended to have to last me two years or more, no matter whether my feet grew or not, and being cheap plastic things anyway, they tended to crack quickly around the tops, which meant that I’d get rashes and scrapes on my legs walking home, because shorter socks are cheaper socks. Same with my jeans, which would inevitably be much too long when I got them, much too short by the time another pair came, and never less than a couple of seasons out of date fashionwise.

    My friends would have prepared lunches of various sorts, and thermoses for hot stuff, I’d have whatever meat was cheapest at the deli counter the previous weekend on whatever bread was on the past-date rack. We had a lot, a LOT, of liverwurst and bologna. I hate liverwurst.

    I’m not knocking my mum, mind; she did better than I could have, though years of practice have taught me a lot about managing being poor. She worked her arse off, taking night classes three or four nights a week on top of her day job. She was so glad when I got old enough to cook reliably, because it meant she could stay at her job and finish up stuff, before going straight to class. There were times we didn’t see her for three days at a go, because she would come in after we were asleep, and be out after packing our lunches in the morning.

    But it makes me really angry when I see people talking down or being patronizing about someone who is a working mother, because very few people doing the talking have any idea of what that’s like. Or of how it’s become so much harder, because the technology costs so much, and yet not having it is really hard on a kid’s socialization and education, and the rates have been pushed down again and again and again.

    I mean, I’ve just gone on welfare, on my road to making a disability claim. It pays me $606 a month. The clawback is $200 exempt, and 50% above that, so if I make, say, $300 in a month, my welfare cheque goes down by $50. And that improvement in the clawback started this month. Before that, every dollar you earned came off the cheque. So unless you could beat $606 for a single person in earnings, there’s no point in doing anything.

    $606 a month. I live in a city-agglomeration of about 500 kilopeople. My rent-controlled rent on this apartment is $939.13 (inclusive of heat and hydro), and the same apartment in the same building two floors up is $120/mo more.

    So my welfare cheque, even if I add the $200 I can add in exempt earnings, doesn’t cover my rent. It does make it so I can afford more of my meds, but two of the most important aren’t covered, so there’s another $180 unavoidable.

    Throw in $120 or so a month on food, and $60 for a basic Internet/phone plan (no cellphone), and my most basic expenses come to $1300, and a few hundred more if I didn’t have the welfare drug plan.

    That’s not exactly a load of money, is it, and absolutely nothing frivolous in the list. And yet the maximum you can get from welfare is $606/mo.

    And that’s me living in Soviet Canuckistan. The US story of the same situation would be worse.

    The next time you hear someone talk about ‘welfare queens’, demand a citation.

    Sorry, didn’t mean to get all ranty, but holy crap, life on social assistance is hard. Anyone who thinks it’s all jelly beans and gin should try it sometime.

  493. birgerjohansson says

    Haha, I read the “Mock the Movie” transcript at the “Lousy Canuck” blog.

    Here are some favourite comments:
    “These guys with the hats look like they’re up to no good. Maybe it’s just the Uzis.”

    “The thing I like most about this song is its universal appeal. We can all relate to having our cocaine stolen by ninjas.”

    “Must be the “Escape from Miami” scene. Sadly, no amount of coercion could bring back Snake Plissken for this.”

    “This band is the only family I have, since I killed my parents and sister.”

  494. carlie says

    Utterly unrelated: “penis beaker” is trending on Twitter. NOPE.

    AHAHAHAHA. I saw one of those when it first broke, on somegreybloke’s feed. It’s a message board wherein someone mentioned that they have a glass on the bedside table for after-sex rinsing, and then was shocked that no one else in the world does so, and at some point early on someone on that board started referring to it as a “penis beaker”, and much hilarity ensued.

  495. says

    I’m hoping I get sick this weekend. I’m not feeling so good right now — headache, mild nausea, that sort of thing — and I want to get it over with on a weekend so it doesn’t disrupt my classes.

    There’s something wrong with the world when you’d rather be puking on your day off than during the work week.

  496. Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought says

    Giliell,

    I’m officially to blame for my mum drinking again and while my father has no longer any interest in me, he’d still like to see his grandchildren.

    Fuck. That’s… harsh and unfair.

    *hugs*

  497. says

    Tony @447

    Having trouble figuring out how to distill Mormom Moments of Madness into an image (without using the actual words) for Lynna…

    Oh, Tony, the fact that you are even pondering the problem makes me happy.

    Pteryxx @448

    …I have this mental image of the statue of angel Moroni blowing confetti and streamers out of its trumpet. >_>

    Heh, the Angel Moroni should be trumpeting out of his ass in my opinion.

    Here’s some mormon underwear that is funny, though it wouldn’t make a good gravatar: Google image link.

  498. Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought says

    PZ

    There’s something wrong with the world when you’d rather be puking on your day off than during the work week.

    Heh, that’s how I’m usually about being sick.

    Being sick during workweek is just too much hassle- having to call in sick then visit the doctor so that you can later provide proof that you were sick (I don’t go to the doctor unless it’s something serious), then you’ll have to make up for the lost time… better just get over it during the weekend.

  499. Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought says

    Tony,

    dare I ask… what recognizable symbol/thing would I have?

  500. says

    PZ, as far as you feeling ill goes, I think the recurrent icky-poo sickness can be traced to hanging out too often with groups of young people. I suggest you ban students from your classes.

    In other news, people in New Jersey are still fighting over gay marriage. One judge publicly stated, in an absolutely awesome way, her take on this as a civil rights issue:

    A judge on Thursday cleared the way for same-sex marriages to start in New Jersey in two weeks, dismissing the state’s request to prevent the weddings until after an appeal of the court decision allowing them is completed.

    “There is no ‘public interest’ in depriving a class of New Jersey residents their constitutional rights while appellate review is pursued,” wrote Judge Mary C. Jacobson of State Superior Court in Mercer County, who also wrote the decision last month that ordered the state to allow same-sex marriages. “On the contrary, granting a stay would simply allow the State to continue to violate the equal protection rights of New Jersey same-sex couples, which can hardly be considered a public interest.” […]

    Judge Jacobson said in her opinion that the state had not demonstrated that its appeal was likely to be successful. And she denied the state’s argument that New Jersey would suffer “irreparable harm” if marriages began happening, ruling instead that the people harmed would be the same-sex couples who would have to wait even longer to gain access to the federal benefits that the United States Supreme Court guaranteed them in a decision in June.

    NYT link.

    Maddow Blog link.