Comments

  1. chigau (カオス) says

    carlie
    the song is fairly innocent (if obnoxious)
    that video I linked ….
    see it to believe it

  2. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Didn’t watch the Star Trek flicks, eh?

    The first three, then faded out. Hollywood didn’t do right by the franchise.

  3. morgan the interabang !? says

    Didn’t watch the Star Trek flicks, eh?

    Evidently not the right ones. Another thing to put on the endless “catch up with the culture” list.

  4. cm's changeable moniker (quaint, if not charming) says

    Apparently, also, Reservoir Dogs.

    (I can’t remember where, and since I’m not spending the time to dig the DVD VHS out of storage, I remain wilfully ignorant.)

    If it’s any consolation, this week’s earworm has been The Teddy Bears’ Picnic.

    I have no idea why.

    It’s been very annoying.

  5. says

    Chigau, no. I don’t have anything new up right now. Amelia had one of her occasional encounters with Doll. Doll loves the ratties, she likes to clean them (or maybe taste them, I don’t know), and Amelia got caught by the coyote tongue. She poked her nose down Doll’s ear, possibly in revenge.

  6. says

    Back in the days, when Clinton was president, I used to discuss politics on the internet with people from across the political spectrum. Among those, were rightwinged nutters, sprewing political talking points as if they were gospel truth, even though there was no connection to reality.

    I just realized that I kinda miss those opponents. They were stupid, sometimes hatefilled, but few of them were as vile as the slimepit crowd. The kind of behavior that the slimepitters do would have been condemmed by the majority of them, except for the Free Republic crowd. OK, I am probably being too kind to them, as many of them probably were misogynists and racists, but they didn’t do harassment campaigns (they just fucked up America).

  7. says

    Kristjan:

    OK, I am probably being too kind to them, as many of them probably were misogynists and racists, but they didn’t do harassment campaigns (they just fucked up America).

    One hardly seems better than the other. I know what you mean, though. When dealing with people who have that disconnect to reality, it is somehow easier to forgive them that and carry on, because education might actually get somewhere. With the current nastiness, we have calculation and malice. Yeah, I’d rather deal with honest ignorance any day.

  8. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    @Hank Williams, 514

    Read an article critiquing the Laffer Curve rhetoric sometime.

    While Laffer’s central observation is probably correct – there is almost certainly such a thing as to top-tier tax bracket with an tax rate sufficiently high as to dampen certain economic activities, and thus reduce governmental income, the Eisenhower era’s 90% top tier was a cornerstone of a booming economy, and Eisenhower wanted to reduce it not because it hurt the economy, but as the economy boomed, it led to – in his opinion – too much money at congress’ disposal.

    So… ignore Laffer for a minute. After Laffer’s paper in the late 70s, republican politicians argued publicly that cutting the 50% top marginal rate would lead to **guaranteed** increased tax receipts. Even when they were shown to be wrong – that it didn’t **guarantee** such – they insisted that they could nonetheless guarantee increased tax receipts for any future tax cuts. When they were considering tax increases to lower the deficit (which congress eventually passed and Reagan signed) republican insisted that the tax increases would **guarantee** lower tax receipts – and were wrong again.

    things like “I believe…” are, of course, impossible to prove false.

    But statements of guarantee of increase or decrease of tax receipts are – completely – disconnected from reality.

  9. Pteryxx says

    Leaving this here with a rage warning for revictimization in a military rape hearing:

    — (TW for revictimization and minimizing, seriously, this is harsh)—

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/09/07/were-you-wearing-a-bra-rape-accuser-at-us-naval-academy-faces-aggressive-and-withering-questioning-on-the-hearing-stand/

    Under defense questioning over the last four days, the accuser has been asked by defense attorneys how wide she opens her mouth during oral sex, how many times a day she lies, whether or not she was wearing underwear or a bra, and other questions that experts interviewed by the Washington Post say would never be allowed in a civilian courtroom.

    Unlike a civilian court, an Article 32 hearing — the military’s version of a grand jury — is open to the public. Also unlike a grand jury, the hearing allows for defense attorneys to cross-examine witnesses, including the accuser.

    Four days. Four days.

    From the WaPo article cited:

    After four days and more than 20 hours of relentless questions about her medical history and motivations, her dance moves and underwear, the 21-year-old midshipman who has accused three former Naval Academy football players of raping her pleaded on Saturday for a day off from testimony. It was granted by the hearing’s presiding officer but not before the request triggered more skepticism from defense attorneys, who said the young woman was faking her exhaustion.

    “What was she going to be doing anyway?” asked Ronald “Chip” Herrington, one of the defense attorneys for Eric Graham, a 21-year-old senior from Eight Mile, Ala. “Something more strenuous than sitting in a chair? We don’t concede there’s been any stress involved.”

  10. says

    “What was she going to be doing anyway?” asked Ronald “Chip” Herrington, one of the defense attorneys for Eric Graham, a 21-year-old senior from Eight Mile, Ala. “Something more strenuous than sitting in a chair? We don’t concede there’s been any stress involved.”

    :tries to figure out how to express what I’m feeling:

    Yeah. I’d like to see Chip “sitting in a chair” for days on end, getting relentlessly harassed. I’ve done it. It’s a form of torture. (Sorry to all our house lawyers.) Think I’ll go scream now.

  11. says

    I was talking about doing things like conflating sex and gender, or saying, “both men and women” to mean everyone.

    *lightbulb*

    Thank you, Crip Dyke, thank you. You taught me something very important.

  12. Rob Grigjanis says

    Hank Williams @514:

    How do you know there was no connection to reality?

    A common experience for me was encountering the same old flat-out lies over and over again, which people had apparently picked up from some trusted source, accepted unquestioningly, and passed along.

    Concrete example: “Volcanoes emit more CO2 than humans”.
    Utter horseshit, of course.
    http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/hazards/gas/climate.php

    I think I finally gave up when I came across the “CO2 is not a greenhouse gas” nonsense. Up is down, etc.

  13. says

    Speaking of disconnects to reality, the fuss (posted in the previous ‘dome) and thought that Jesus is definitely gonna come get the good xians before June, because there are a couple of end of the world movies coming out, which are disrespectful of the rapture concept.

  14. says

    Then there are all the every day disconnects:

    “There can’t be that much sexual harassment, I never see it.”

    “Racism is a thing of the past.”

    “Poor people don’t have it that hard, they just need to work.”

    “GLBTI people aren’t oppressed, they have fuckin’ parades!”

    And so on.

  15. ck says

    “Poor people don’t have it that hard, they just need to work.”

    I’ve rarely seen it stated that nicely, usually it’s:
    “Poor people are poor because they’re lazy and hate working.”

  16. says

    ck:

    I’ve rarely seen it stated that nicely, usually it’s:
    “Poor people are poor because they’re lazy and hate working.”

    Yes, along with the racist additions to such, and of course, the slut welfare queen business.

  17. Walton says

    Indeed. Then there’s all the racist bullshit about “these immigrants are coming over here and taking our jobs / living on benefits / committing crimes”. Falsehoods which are actively promoted by the right-wing media.

  18. says

    Indeed. Then there’s all the racist bullshit about “these immigrants are coming over here and taking our jobs / living on benefits / committing crimes”. Falsehoods which are actively promoted by the right-wing media.

    Yep, and it’s not like they can even make up their mind whether the immigrants take our jobs or laze one our welfare system.
    Oh, btw, since the election is drawing near our minister for interior has been very gracious towards refugees from Syria: They are allowed to come here as long as they have relatives who provide for them.
    And since we’re talking about horrible I just read an article that in Vienna a young Iraqi woman had a stillbirth because two hospitals refused admission the day before. No visa, no money, no help. So much for pro life.

  19. says

    Walton:

    Then there’s all the racist bullshit about “these immigrants are coming over here and taking our jobs / living on benefits / committing crimes”.

    Gods yes. I’m 55 years old, and I’ve heard that crap all my life.* It just gets worse.
     
    *Being a native Californian, and growing up there, it was primarily centered on all those “greasers, wetbacks and beaners” coming in to “get rich on our jobs” and the influx of Asians later, but they weren’t considered to be quite as bad. Then all the idiots started screaming and yelling because more and more multilingual signs were going up, yada, yada, yada. It is so tiresome.

  20. says

    Giliell:

    Oh, btw, since the election is drawing near our minister for interior has been very gracious towards refugees from Syria: They are allowed to come here as long as they have relatives who provide for them.

    Bigots, thriving on loopholes and technicalities forever.

  21. Lofty says

    On everyday sexism
    Destroy the joint? Destroy the bike.

    That fact that the bike world is still largely a cock forest doesn’t help either. In fact, bike lanes and bike shops are the two places where I’m regularly made to feel that being in possession of lady bits is a bad thing.

  22. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Then all the idiots started screaming and yelling because more and more multilingual signs were going up, yada, yada, yada. It is so tiresome.

    Funny how the main new economic forces in this area is by hispanics providing services for hispanics (in Spanish, of course). Those services include medical, dental, and legal services, besides the little grocery stores and small restaurants. (Have an itch for authentic food from a region of Mexico, just find the right place.) Refreshing.

  23. Hank Williams says

    If we were to give the Syrians bikes, and then let them ride the bikes in America, perhaps they could teach tolerance and make the world a better place.

  24. says

    Nerd:

    besides the little grocery stores and small restaurants.

    Oh man, I miss actual Mexican food *so much.* And the grocery stores! Love all the indie groceries, I miss them that much, too.

    The only time I can get authentic Mexican food is if I feel like cooking it, and I don’t have the time very often these days. Now I want a chile relleno.

  25. morgan the interabang !? says

    Caine,

    When I moved from So.Cal to NYC in 1981 there was no such thing as authentic Mexican / So.American food in evidence. I was in withdrawal. I has a friend ship various ingredients and cooked a fabulous meal for a dozen new friends, all of whom became instant converts. I should have opened a restaurant right then. Oh well. Missed opportunities. Now, you can get pretty authentic south of the border food just about anywhere, except tiny towns not far from Canada, unfortunately.

  26. says

    Morgan, well, you can’t get anything even approaching actual Mexican food in my part of ND. There’s Amican, but that shit is horrible. On the list of things I deeply, deeply miss: being able to pick up and head out to various towns in Mexico for food, drinking, and scuba diving. Pfffft, I’m going to make myself sick with sadness here.

  27. morgan the interabang !? says

    Yeah, a quick run across the border. I’ve done lots of that.

    How about a care package? Name your ingredients and it could be overnighted in a cold box. Not the least expensive way to eat what is essentially great peasant food, but hell, splurge a little.

  28. morgan the interabang !? says

    How do you feel about tamales. It is very easy to get a bad tamale, even here, but I know where to get fabulous ones. Any one of my inlaw’s MIL’s makes them fresh every Xmas. Yum!

  29. says

    Morgan:

    How do you feel about tamales.

    Ohhhh, I miss them. Back when I worked at Sunday Samples in SoCal, there was one lunch truck, oh man, almost a riot every day, trying to get to that truck first. They had the best damn food ever. Including tamales. Beautiful tamales. Haven’t made any in ages.

  30. morgan the interabang !? says

    Well, you Could do weekend runaways over the border, but it would have to be a long weekend with friendly border agents. It takes forever now to cross the border. Paranoid fools think those furriners are going to do nasty things. Bah.

  31. morgan the interabang !? says

    Well girl, get a bunch of friends over and make some tamales. It is a great group activity.

  32. says

    Morgan:

    Well, you Could do weekend runaways over the border, but it would have to be a long weekend with friendly border agents.

    I’m afraid not. I’m in North Dakota these days. I never drive the border, it’s slow and a pain in the arse. Walking across is easier.

  33. morgan the interabang !? says

    Oh I know you are way up north, just teasing you. When did you last go to Mexico? Even walking across the pedestrian bridge into Tijuana takes forever now. Crowds, crooked federales, crooked Border Patrol, hucksters, etc. Carry plenty of cash but don’t get it stolen.

  34. says

    Morgan:

    When did you last go to Mexico?

    Oh, about 22 years ago. It was a clusterfuck then, too, but we always had a specific destination, did all the necessary to streamline the process, had friends just outside TJ we borrowed motorcycles from to continue traveling, etc. We were pretty familiar to a good portion of the border patrol, too. I doubt anything has changed much, just gotta know your way through it.

    I spent a lot of time scuba diving in Mexico, did two summers of college on a big ass boat out that way, diving, research and cataloging, that was hella fun.

  35. morgan the interabang !? says

    Not quite good night yet… heh, heh.

    Mexico is a fabulous place plagued by a really shitty government.

    Now, good night. Happy chile rellenos dreams.

  36. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Caine

    Now I want a chile relleno.

    A quick search showed 18 restaurants in the Northeast Lake County area serving that dish. While some are Tex/Mex, some are the hole-in-the-wall authentic places….

    Typical Lake County restaurant: a foodcourt place at Gurnee Mills owned by Koreans, staffed by Mexicans, serving “Cajun” food.

  37. Ichthyic says

    I spent a lot of time scuba diving in Mexico, did two summers of college on a big ass boat out that way, diving, research and cataloging, that was hella fun.

    interesting. I spent 2 summers doing research down there around 1990. all my dive work was near Cabo Pulmo (about 60k north of Cabo San Lucas on the Gulf side).

    where were you doing your stuff?

  38. Ichthyic says

    My field season there started off well, then we had no less than FIVE hurricanes pass within 70k of us, 1 actually hit us. I spent as much time body surfing as diving :P

    still, the fish I wanted to work on were all there at least.

  39. Hank Williams says

    I don’t eat chili rellenos or tamales unless I am personally involved in the preparation process. In contrast, a fish fillet or corn is fine as you can judge the food quality, ingredients, and any impurities that may have been introduced by the food preparers. All you know when you eat a chili relleno is the consistency of the stuff inside the pepper. God only knows with a tamale. There are also a whole lot of pig anuses and lips that seem to disappear, but you never see them for sale in the grocery store.

  40. Dhorvath, OM says

    A note on bikes on the social circles around them: I am in this industry. We know there is a problem, some of us actually care to change that problem, some of us even make headway. I have fewer traditional male cyclist friends than otherwise and our shop is garnering a reputation as a friendly destination due to how socially functional we are. This is a good thing, no one should fear entering a bike store.

  41. Ichthyic says

    oh, and did you ever get a chance to meet Linn Montgomery (from Northern Arizona State) while you were down there?

  42. says

    Ichthyic:

    My field season there started off well, then we had no less than FIVE hurricanes pass within 70k of us, 1 actually hit us. I spent as much time body surfing as diving :P

    ! That must have been something. Geez, talk about bad work conditions.

    Coral de los Frailes?

    That looks right. I’m glad it’s a national park, too. So much that needs to be under protection. I don’t remember a Linn Montgomery, but it was 37 / 38 years ago!

  43. Lofty says

    Dhorvath

    We know there is a problem, some of us actually care to change that problem, some of us even make headway.

    Absolutely. I refuse to patronise bike shops that are little more than a church of the lycra dudes. There are businesses that do well by being all inclusive and look after their customers. My fave bike shop actually has the workshop immediately behind the counter so you talk to the proprietor, his wife the cashier and the second mechanic as friends. Life’s too short to waste on assholes.

  44. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    @SQB, 520

    No problem. Honestly, I’m glad to have helped, and a few people doing that kind of thing 20% less seems like not enough, but for those of us who really **see** how we’re invisilbized (some of us overload on it and stop seeing it even though they have the education to see it. Others – like me – find some percentage goes in one eye and out the other, but we can’t stop ourselves from seeing all of it, and the relentless nature of it takes a toll. So any amount less is good.

    I actually have another comment in me that I’ve wanted to get up taking off from PZ’s post on the idiot with the golden seed. I feel a bit weird and nitpicky…but the criticism is as legit there as anywhere else. But I was going to confine it to TDome. Sigh. It’s so not timely anymore, but I haven’t had time this weekend.

    Oh, well. Maybe I’ll write something here about that post and just link back to it.

    Y’know, another thing is that I’m afraid I’ piss off ol’ Poopyhead.

    I don’t think i will. I think he loves intelligent disagreement, but you never know. And he is the dictator. So even though I think that it will either be well recieved or ignored, I still feel a bit nervous about it, which makes writing it that much more stressful, and thus requires that much more energy/time, which makes it that much more out of reach in a busy weekend.

    Sigh.

    But really, I’m going to write this thing down any hour now…

  45. says

    Nerd

    Have an itch for authentic food from a region of Mexico, just find the right place.

    I envy you. It’s been 8 years since I last made it to Latin America. But at least now I know what to make for dinner on Wednesday: arroz con frijoles and sweetcorn pancakes.

    +++
    Tamales?
    Mhhhhh, in Cuba you could buy the plain variety on every other corner. Together with a bit of picante…
    The Cubans always enjoyed it very much when some tourists ate them with the banana leaf wrapping. I even miss Cuban pizza now, which is an acquired tase…

    +++
    Hank Williams #556
    Yep, because we all know that you can’t trust those people with food preparation. I mean, with a good American burger you’Re on the safe side…

    +++
    Hurricanes?
    I got lightly touched by one in 2004 and we made the big preparations for a really big one (beyond the categories) that fortunately went around Cuba. The predictions were that we had a 50% chance for it passing directly over us, 30% of passing next to us, 10% of passing somewhere over the island and a 10% chance of going around the island* which was what actually happened. Of course then some people went on to say that the meterologists had been wrong in their predictions…

    *it moved vers slowly and was therefore hard to predict.

  46. says

    any impurities that may have been introduced by the food preparers.

    I expect you ingest all manner of little extras, “Hank”, courtesy of those ever so untrustworthy food slaves. Better unplug your ‘net access and hide in the closet.

  47. Walton says

    And since we’re talking about horrible I just read an article that in Vienna a young Iraqi woman had a stillbirth because two hospitals refused admission the day before. No visa, no money, no help. So much for pro life.

    That’s terrible. Similarly, a Senegalese immigrant died in Spain from untreated tuberculosis, as a result of the Spanish government’s express policy of refusing healthcare to undocumented people. A system accurately described in the linked article as “health apartheid”.

  48. Walton says

    (And the British government had until recently a secret ministerial committee called the “hostile environment working group”, with an express mandate to make life miserable for undocumented people in the hope of forcing them to leave. One of its ideas, thankfully not adopted, was to exclude children of undocumented people from the school system.

    And of course many are detained in hellhole internment camps like this. Including pregnant women, children, and torture survivors.)

  49. Walton says

    Walton
    So, they risked to spread fucking Tuberculosis because that’s so much better than being a decent human being?

    Apparently, yes. I can only conclude that the Rajoy government are racist assholes.

  50. Nick Gotts says

    There are also a whole lot of pig anuses and lips that seem to disappear, but you never see them for sale in the grocery store.

    Some of the pig anuses turn up in Thunderdome, making stupid and irrelevant comments under the names of well-known country singer-songwriters.

  51. says

    I wonder if anybody ever told Hank Williams how sausages are made *intestines -hint- intestines*
    +++

    Since we’re talking ’bout racism…
    Election propaganda “We aren’t the world’s welfare office”, people in the supermarket chatting that “yeah, the Turks are like that. And the Russians. And the Italians, too!”

  52. says

    Nick:

    Some of the pig anuses turn up in Thunderdome, making stupid and irrelevant comments under the names of well-known country singer-songwriters.

    A dead singer-songwriter, no less. As revenants go, this one is piss poor.

  53. says

    Giliell:

    I wonder if anybody ever told Hank Williams how sausages are made *intestines -hint- intestines*

    Heh, and that’s hardly the worst of it, if one is squeamish about those sorts of things. In a world where people happily pay an absurd amount of money to eat bull testicles, aka Rocky Mountain Oysters, I don’t see why anyone would worry about the odd pig anus.

  54. Thumper; Immorally Inferior Sergeant Major in the Grand Gynarchy Mangina Corps (GGMC) says

    Re. the conversation about marshmallows; have you come across Fluff? My girlfriend came across it recently in Germany; it’s spreadable marshmallow!

    @Caine

    Marshmelon? Wrath of Tpyos, or amazing new fruit I’ve never heard of?

  55. Thumper; Immorally Inferior Sergeant Major in the Grand Gynarchy Mangina Corps (GGMC) says

    Whoops, forgot there was a whole other page to read before I got to the end. My bad; ignore above. Carry on!

  56. Thumper; Immorally Inferior Sergeant Major in the Grand Gynarchy Mangina Corps (GGMC) says

    Re. Hank Williams; it’s kind of nice to see some classic, immature trolling again. It’s far preferable to seeing misogynistic, rape-denying harrassers passing off their horrific bullshit as trolling.

  57. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    @Caine

    you really should watch the Sarumangry video

    There’s a video? I haven’t been paying attention. I listened to an audio file days ago, when this thing appeared on manboobz, but the video I missed.

    Crip Dyke, people have long disagreed with PZ, … You don’t have anything to worry about.

    No, really, I know that. Intellectually, I know that. But there’s such a huge societal thing about trans people pointing out trans oppression and being given crap. Not, of course, unique to fighting trans oppression, but I don’t do 101. [I can't stand doing 101: I've done it too often, and if we only do 101 then we never actually end oppression -"Oh, this is the definitions of the class I'm oppressing? Well, thanks. Now I can more easily identify the people whom I denigrate and dismisss. This has been very helpful!") When I do this shit, I pick on the people who should know better and I pick on things in language that matter...but that are relentlessly dismissed as unproblematic in context. It's not the "it's a joke" defense [in the vast majority of cases I address]. It’s the “but everyone knows the difference between balls and behavior” defense.

    Except, y’know, they clearly don’t.

    So even though I have nothing to fear from PZ, I have plenty to fear from **society**, and [for better, generally] PZ is part of society.

    Thus the anxiety kicks in.

  58. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    Well, since it was brought up by Hank “Sockpuppet” Williams, I will say here:

    I will never by a tofu dog again.

    The thought of eating the lips and assholes of a tofu just makes me ill.

  59. NightShadeQueen, resident nutcase says

    Not sure about lips, but pork tongue is totally a Chinese delicacy.

    Yum.

  60. Walton says

    [TW:

    In yet another act of crass xenophobia, the Home Office in Scotland has now started a "go home" campaign, putting up posters at immigration reporting centres urging asylum-seekers and undocumented people to return to their home countries. The posters include pictures of homeless people, underlining the threat of deliberate state-enforced destitution and homelessness for refused asylum-seekers. Many asylum-seekers who are survivors of torture and other human rights abuses in their home countries, and are suffering from trauma, have said that they find the posters frightening.

  61. carlie says

    Marshmallow fluff is an ingredient in quick fudge. I knew a couple of guys in college who, upon getting their student loan checks (which included money to live on during the semester), went to the club store and bought a few gigantic-sized jars of it.

  62. Jacob Schmidt says

    Thumper

    Re. the conversation about marshmallows; have you come across Fluff?

    Yep. We even sell it at the store at which I work. You could probably find it in the UK somewhere if it’s here in Canada.

  63. Thumper; Immorally Inferior Sergeant Major in the Grand Gynarchy Mangina Corps (GGMC) says

    @Walton

    *rageflail*

    Great. My democratically elected government has taken it upon themselves to go out and put up racist posters. Fan-fucking-tastic. Now I’m mad.

    @Carlie

    Yeah I’ve read that recipe but never tried it :) I mean to give it a go.

    @Jacob Schmidt

    I’m sure you can somewhere; I will need to do some digging.

  64. cicely says

    Giliell:

    So, they risked to spread fucking Tuberculosis because that’s so much better than being a decent human being?

    Now, now! I’m sure the tuberculosis appreciated their principled stand, and courteously declined to spread…or mutate…or swap bits with other tuberculosis strains….
     
    (Do I really need to label that as sarcasm?)
    -

  65. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    From McIvor v Canada (Registrar, Indian and Northern Affairs), the appellant’s (Canada’s) factum (a court filing providing information and argument to the court) opposing allowing non-parties to file their own facta, at para 46:

    The role of an intervenor is to assist the Court, therefore, it should be neutral and objective and not align with the arguments of one of the parties. In an article written in The National magazine in May 1999, Justice Major wrote:

    The value of an intervenor’s brief is in direct proportion to its objectivity. Those interventions that argue the merits of the appeal and align their argument to support one part or the other with respect to the specific outcome of the appeal are, on this basis, of no value. That approach is simply piling on, and incompatible with proper intervention. The anticipation of the Court is that the intervener remains neutral in the result…

    +10 points if you thought “Awwww, the Indians are piling-on against poor Canada!”
    +10 more if you had to say it out loud.

    +30 if you noted that counsel for appellant Canada cited a popular magazine and not any legislative proceeding or executive regulation, order or act, much less any court decision, dissent or filing.
    +60 if you can name at least one Justice that has approvingly cited material from a factum filed by an intervener who included under the standard section “Nature of order sought” anything other than, “We don’t care. We’re good with whatever happens.”

    Seriously, if that isn’t the most obtuse, abstruse and verbose way of delivering the only-too-expected, “Shut up Indians, the white people are talking,” I’ll eat meat for dinner.

  66. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    @Caine, 593:

    I don’t. If he had said it specifically in the context of this case, I might. The way he was cited is something below the standard I have for random internet people, but not that he said it originally.

    I haven’t managed access to the full original article yet (I only casually tried, since I didn’t wanna waste too much time going after it when I still have about 240 pages left to read this week (out of about 700, so I’ve made progress). But it was nice to note that the “piling on” statement has been used ironically by quite a number of folk in law review articles, etc. The general sense of the legal community in Canada who writes about that quote seems to be that it was idiotic. But that won’t stop white folk from using it to tell the nations & bands up here to shove off.

    Sigh.

  67. Portia says

    (I only casually tried, since I didn’t wanna waste too much time going after it when I still have about 240 pages left to read this week (out of about 700, so I’ve made progress).

    You can doooo it!

    …and that justice has a fundamental misunderstanding of the freakin’ purpose of amici (USian) briefs, huh? That’s the kind of statement that would be hilarious if it weren’t so disgustingly ignorant and oppressive.

  68. says

    Crip Dyke:

    The general sense of the legal community in Canada who writes about that quote seems to be that it was idiotic.

    And rightly so, it was idiotic.

    But that won’t stop white folk from using it to tell the nations & bands up here to shove off.

    No, it won’t. It’s rare when anything stops that from happening.

  69. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    @Portia:

    Yeah, it would be so stupid as to wonder how the guy got through law school with only nepotism to aid him, **if** it were in the US.

    Standing rules are different up here, and interveners/amici are permitted to file if they have information useful to the court not otherwise available OR if they have a particular stake in the outcome.

    So he only threw out a sufficient cause for the court to permit a party to intervene, not a necessary and sufficient one. But still. Idiotic in the extreme, coming from a Justice. There’s no surprise why it’s used as an in-joke in article titles.

  70. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    @Caine:

    No, it won’t. It’s rare when anything stops that from happening.

    ROFlolsobbing.

  71. says

    Crip Dyke:

    ROFlolsobbing.

    I don’t know about Canada, but here in the States, a lot of people would be much happier if Indians were just a chapter in history books, they are affronted by our mere existence.* Other people let themselves get so wracked up they get to point of enjoying a wallow in white guilt, and others happily go for co-opting and exploitation. The ones who are left are the ones who get it.

    *My rez is Pine Ridge, and that attitude is all over SD. The Dakotas never took the laws about how you can kill Indians in this that and the other circumstance off the books.

  72. Walton says

    Great. My democratically elected government has taken it upon themselves to go out and put up racist posters. Fan-fucking-tastic. Now I’m mad.

    You’re right to be horrified. But this is the same Tory government that doesn’t give a damn about Jackie Nanyonjo’s death at the hands of its own hired contractors. And which is happy to lock up families with children in hellhole internment camps, or force them to live in conditions like this. And which, despite loudly trumpeting its commitment to gay rights, is still deporting gay and lesbian people to places where they face violence.

    They’re steadily chipping away at human rights from all angles. Theresa May has made deliberate efforts (thankfully smacked down by the courts, thus far) to curtail the scope of the right to private and family life under Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights, so that the Home Office can get away more easily with deporting people who have partners and children in the UK.

    Then there’s the classism in the new Family Migration Rules. Since last July, if you are married to a non-EEA national and you want to bring them to live with you in the UK, you have to prove that you are earning at least £18,600 a year. Your spouse’s potential earnings can’t be counted. And if you’re also bringing children to the UK, the figure goes up. (And this is not even counting the application fees you have to pay, or the cost of getting legal advice – they scrapped legal aid for family migration cases last April.) In other words, if you’re a multi-national family and you’re not middle-class or above, the government’s response is “screw you”.

  73. Esteleth, statistically significant to p ≤ 0.001 says

    Hmpth.

    I’m in upstate NY, very near the Haudenosaunee (aka Iroquois) rez. The number of people who are SERIOUSLY pissed that the Six Nations dare exist is appalling. Like, not long ago, they erected a sign along I-90 where it cuts through the rez announcing the fact that, well, drivers are now on Six Nations land. People seriously flipped out. Including people ranting about how it was !!!disgusting!!! that the sign was printed in both English and the local Haudenosaunee dialect (Seneca, IIRC). They were also angry that a nearby billboard says “Honor Indian Treaties.” Because it is offensive to be reminded that treaties are being blatantly ignored.

    And now it is heating up because the Seneca want to build a casino and you’d think they were proposing building a crystal-meth lab in the lobby of every primary school in the county, based on how people are reacting.

  74. says

    Esteleth:

    I’m in upstate NY, very near the Haudenosaunee (aka Iroquois) rez. The number of people who are SERIOUSLY pissed that the Six Nations dare exist is appalling. Like, not long ago, they erected a sign along I-90 where it cuts through the rez announcing the fact that, well, drivers are now on Six Nations land. People seriously flipped out.

    Yeah, happens here too. The slightest reminder that we’re breathing is incredibly, magically insulting and offensive.

    And now it is heating up because the Seneca want to build a casino and you’d think they were proposing building a crystal-meth lab in the lobby of every primary school in the county, based on how people are reacting.

    Oh fuck yeah. When that happened in Fort Yates ND and SD, people had an attack. Especially in SD, when there was a move by Pine Ridge and several other Reservations to block Kevin Costner in buying up huge tracts of land for a golf course/resort/casino. “Fucking Indians, after all Costner did for them, Dances with Wolves, they don’t call it Indian giver for nothing, blah blah blah.”

  75. Esteleth, statistically significant to p ≤ 0.001 says

    There was also the stink a few years back where the Haudenosaunee team (which, as the rez straddles the US/Canadian border, contained both US and Canadian citizens) got held up at the airport when the went to travel to the lacrosse world championships. Because !!!! they were all, “We’re a nation, our government issues passports.” The stink lasted for so long – they were effectively detained because they “lacked appropriate ID” – that they were forced to default all their matches.

    The irony of the Haudenosaunee team being effectively prevented from competing in the world championships in a sport they invented is pretty stark.

  76. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    @Esteleth, 606 –
    I remember that, too.

    @Esteleth, 604

    not long ago, they erected a sign along I-90 where it cuts through the rez announcing the fact that, well, drivers are now on Six Nations land. People seriously flipped out. Including people ranting about how it was !!!disgusting!!! that the sign was printed in both English and the local Haudenosaunee dialect (Seneca, IIRC).

    And when they take down the [English language] signs saying, “Welcome to Albany” I’ll have some sympathy.

    Or, y’know, NOT.

    They were also angry that a nearby billboard says “Honor Indian Treaties.” Because it is offensive to be reminded that treaties are being blatantly ignored.

    Dream response:

    “Look, if you want to argue that the US government has no honor and should abandon the treaties, that’s fine. But then they lose the claims they gained to territory based on the treaties. We’ll just take back, um, everything outside Alaska & the Louisiana Purchase, shall we – and those two will, of course, go back to Russia & France. The good news is that the US government will get back 2000 pounds of beads, several thousand flintlocks, half a million nails, and, from France, 2 million bucks.

    You and the other 300 million non-indigenous folk can use it to rent yourself some apartments for a night or two. Then we’ll expect you to be gone.

    How’s that sound?”

  77. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    @Caine

    “Fucking Indians, after all Costner did for them, Dances with Wolves, they don’t call it Indian giver for nothing, blah blah blah.”

    I must be an idiot or something, but wasn’t the side that was constantly giving people guarantees and then, whoops! taking them back, er, how can I put this delicately, that somewhat pale race of people who were owning, raping, torturing, and forcing to work a somewhat darker race of people?

    I’m going to insult you by calling you me – how does that work in their bizarre framework?

  78. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    @Caine:

    I don’t know about Canada, but here in the States, a lot of people would be much happier if Indians were just a chapter in history books, they are affronted by our mere existence.

    Yeah, the attitude isn’t new to me. It’s all over Oregon. But speaking of Canada?

    I just read 3 facta (court limits them in most instances [with which I am familiar] to about 20 pages, 16 of which is substantive) that were chock-a-block with apologia for “Enfranchisement” policy, where “enfranchisement” = we refuse to acknowledge your existence as part of an aboriginal community.

    Ah, the delights of historical lawsuits from back in the day.

    In this case, the day was mid-2008.

  79. says

    Crip Dyke:

    how does that work in their bizarre framework?

    In that particular context, the Indians were supposed to be forever grateful that Costner was making a movie that didn’t completely give in to stereotypes and bigotry, and actually had Indian actors. Okay, the Sioux nations really did welcome him, gave him all manner of help and hospitality, all that. Afterwards, Costner was so taken with himself, he wanted to open a massive golf course (really bad for the environment unless done right, and they usually aren’t)/resort/casino deal. He played all shocked and hurt when the Sioux nation considered that a huge betrayal. (Casinos are one of the only ways for a rez to make money.) So, in that case, you had ungrateful fuckin’ Indians, look what happens when a white person is so great to them and Indian givers because the Sioux nation had backed Costner on making the film and all, and had pledged help. So, when they didn’t want Costner pulling down millions of dollars that should go to them, Indian givers.

    In more general terms, the whole Indian giver thing is a mistake. Most tribes dealt in trade, and a trade made on one morning could easily be reversed and traded back that evening. No big deal to Indians. So, early white peoples dealing with Indians assumed anything which was offered was a gift. When an Indian[s] didn’t receive anything in turn on the bartering table, they wanted their “gift” back, hence Indian giver.

  80. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    When an Indian[s] didn’t receive anything in turn on the bartering table, they wanted their “gift” back, hence Indian giver.

    Hmph. I’ve been assuming since I was about 9 years old that Indian giver had originally meant “giver to indians” – meaning the white folk that couldn’t be trusted, for various different reasons – and that over time the origin had been lost and racism allowed lazy minds to believe it had always referred to First Nations folk.

    I had never really looked into the etymology, so thanks. One misconception corrected.

    Casinos are one of the only ways for a rez to make money.

    Okay, so it took me until adulthood, but I’ve been saying for quite a while now that the anti-casino squad is the genocide squad wearing cauco-camo: when white folks come together, it suddenly becomes so difficult to see the genocidal implications of moving other nations to unproductive and economically valueless land [and re-moving them when a hitherto-unknown economic value does become apparent] only to object when the one thing that is of value, re: the political sovereignty to create their own laws with respect to gambling, and then insist that that one activity bringing money into a legally circumscribed community be shut down.

    And yet, I’ve never yet had an aboriginal or First Nations friend or acquaintance that couldn’t see it just fine – usually long before I did.

    I know that politically it might turn off some white moderates, and sure there’s enough to slam them on with the anti-sovereignty white entitlement, but I’d love to see an explicit public discussion of the genocidal implications of opposition to casinos on reservation land.

  81. boygenius says

    Caine,

    What are your thoughts on the recent vote by the Pine Ridge Oglala to legalize alcohol possession and sales on the reservation?

    I envision the tribe having more control over alcohol related issues than in the past, and more revenue available to implement that control.

    Everyone (here) knows that prohibition doesn’t, hasn’t, and willn’t ever work. The only folks that I can foresee being put out are the liquor store owners in Whiteclay, for whom I have a vast, cavernous lack of give-a-fuck.

  82. says

    Crip Dyke:

    And yet, I’ve never yet had an aboriginal or First Nations friend or acquaintance that couldn’t see it just fine –

    It’s easy to see when you’re on a rez. The poverty is often extreme. All throughout though, there’s a lot of humour about it, duct tape and cars, you know, or Indian bacon (fried bologna), gov’t cheese doorstops, all that.

    When a rez does all the work and is allowed to go the casino route, it’s interesting to visit, because all the income is coming from white people. They just resent the hell out of it going to Indians. Doesn’t stop them gambling.

  83. The Mellow Monkey: Non-Hypothetical says

    Caine

    I don’t know about Canada, but here in the States, a lot of people would be much happier if Indians were just a chapter in history books, they are affronted by our mere existence.

    That is the truth. People will just lose their fucking shit over simply being reminded Indians are alive. When I lived in a city out west, I never ran into much of it. For the most part I think white people just lumped Indians and Latin@s into the same category and didn’t think about it beyond that. There was racism, but it was a confused sort of racism.

    Up here? It’s like you’re committing a crime just by stepping off the rez. There’s a narrow margin of appropriate touristy stuff that’s allowed and otherwise, stop fucking existing. And they’re doing everything they can to poison the water on a couple reservations for the sake of mining, so maybe they’ll get their wish.

    The mining thing here is just absolutely agonizing. All I can manage is incoherent swearing and flailing monkey rage on the subject.

  84. says

    boygenius:

    What are your thoughts on the recent vote by the Pine Ridge Oglala to legalize alcohol possession and sales on the reservation?

    I envision the tribe having more control over alcohol related issues than in the past, and more revenue available to implement that control.

    Everyone (here) knows that prohibition doesn’t, hasn’t, and willn’t ever work. The only folks that I can foresee being put out are the liquor store owners in Whiteclay, for whom I have a vast, cavernous lack of give-a-fuck.

    Eh, I’m not thrilled about it, but given the amount of Indians who are murdered in fucking Whiteclay / Sheridan County, with the murderers always walking, I’m all for it. Y’know alcohol is a problem, but people are going to drink, best that sales are conducted within Pine Ridge, and hopefully, be able to offer up some help as well. In the short and long run, it will keep people from being murdered, like Raymond Yellow Thunder and so many others.

  85. Ichthyic says

    Casinos are one of the only ways for a rez to make money.

    In the Coachella Valley, it was also common to charge monthly land-lease fees for all the folks living the the hundreds of “gated communities” there.

    I was paying over 100/mo just for that (rental and community fees did not cover), and since there were about 100 thousand others out there doing that same, that must be a nice chunk o change in the end.

    Of course, that depends on actually giving up portions of your lands to let outsiders settle on them to begin with.

    I also personally never saw the problem with Casinos, though it was a perennial stink raised by various communities in the Valley.

  86. says

    MM:

    And they’re doing everything they can to poison the water on a couple reservations for the sake of mining, so maybe they’ll get their wish.

    That sounds really bad. Devastating bad. Fuck, it never ends.

  87. says

    Ichthyic:

    Of course, that depends on actually giving up portions of your lands to let outsiders settle on them to begin with.

    It depends on having that land in the first place. Then it depends on whether or not that land is someplace people want to build houses on and live there.

  88. says

    Y’know alcohol is a problem, but people are going to drink, best that sales are conducted within Pine Ridge, and hopefully, be able to offer up some help as well.

    Another thing that occurs to me is that it will also keep some of the money from those sales circulating within Pine Ridge, which has economic knock-on benefits. Right now, all that money goes into the pockets of the white liquor store owners over in Whiteclay and leaves the Pine Ridge economy for good.
    On a related note, when I was looking into how much economic effect that might have (I didn’t know how may people lived there, nor how much business the liquor stores did), I noticed that there was an effort to get some economic development going by growing hemp at the turn of the century, but the crop was destroyed by the DEA and the courts gave the farmers a big old middle finger when they complained. Color me shocked.

  89. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    Speaking of duct tape and cars…

    Though I like the version from Fingermonkey better. The instrumental version on Homeland is okay, but it really hits its best on Fingermonkey.

  90. says

    Dalillama:

    I noticed that there was an effort to get some economic development going by growing hemp at the turn of the century, but the crop was destroyed by the DEA and the courts gave the farmers a big old middle finger when they complained. Color me shocked.

    Yeah, hemp is an ideal crop for the Dakotas, but just try and grow it. It is legal to grow hemp here in ND, but that doesn’t stop the DEA stomping onto someone’s land and torching their hemp crops. We know a couple of people who keep trying to grow it, they’ve been hit by the DEA time after time after time after time. Fucking assholes.

  91. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    Don’t really have anything to say about indian bacon, but I did forget to respond to this:

    gov’t cheese doorstops

    Ah, yes, the policy of paying Northern, white dairy farmers to supply otherwise economically valueless dairy products to people primarily of 2 races: one having a lactose intolerance rate of 70%, the other of 90%.

    Sooooooo thoughtful, that policy.

  92. The Mellow Monkey: Non-Hypothetical says

    I blame government cheese for one of my comfort foods in adulthood consisting of a white bread toast sandwich with nothing but butter and shitty processed cheese.

    It is my shame food. I imprinted on it as a child like a gosling believing a coyote is its mother.

  93. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    For me?

    Frosted Flakes and Apple Jacks.

    I hate that I like them, but I do.

    Not the same political implications, but still, it’s my shame food.

  94. Ichthyic says

    It depends on having that land in the first place. Then it depends on whether or not that land is someplace people want to build houses on and live there.

    true.

    but who would have thought that there would be a rush to build houses and hundreds of golf courses in the middle of the friggen desert?

    you know what I recall of the Coachella Valley?

    It was like living in a cave for 9 months out of the year, since you couldn’t go outside without some form of portable air conditioning.

  95. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    Gov’t cheese is like petrified velveeta. Pure horror.

    I’ve never had it. I thought it was horrible for other reasons, and I knew it was low-quality, but yeah, whatever the visceral experience of eating that stuff is? I don’t know it.

    And am I ever glad.

  96. morgan the interabang !? says

    Caine, I’m embarrassed to say that my knowledge about the exploitation of native peoples is slim. Probably better than some because I’m a bit of a history buff, but still lacking. That said, the country is in the process of legalizing marijuana. It is unrealistic to think that the native peoples could capitalize on this? My very next thought is that big corporations have probably already cornered some aspect of the enterprise making difficult for small folks to prosper. Damn. Just burbling.

  97. morgan the interabang !? says

    My last comment was naive. Even “Indian Gaming” as it is euphemistically known is well known to have been co-opted by organized crime. Shit.

  98. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    @Morgan:

    I don’t know if you realize or not – if you do, just ignore me – but **hemp** is different from marijuana for these purposes.

    They were growing a legal crop with THC levels too low to be recreationally useful. They had their crops slashed and burned because it might make it harder for cops to spot marijuana from the air if it was camouflaged by the presence of legal hemp.

    Which, by the way, is also why north of detroit the state police napalmed all the mercedes in Auburn Hills. Too many were stolen, so if they napalmed all the ones that they could see, they’d have a better chance at finding the stolen ones that were left.

  99. morgan the interabang !? says

    Crip Dyke, yes, I know the difference between hemp and marijuana. And I’m going to have to study up on why the fuck hemp is so threatening, other than camouflaging pot crops. But pot farming is big, big business as everyone knows. It is nearly legal in a lot of places and very legal in a few. Who stands to benefit by banning or discouraging its cultivation by the native peoples?

  100. says

    And in any case, the land ‘given’ to the First Nations (if you’ll excuse my using the Canadian term) is very rarely of farmable quality without huge inputs that aren’t made available (water, fertilizer, machinery for modern farming of indifferently-arable land). It’s one of the ways in which our white ancestors made sure that First Nations peoples would be thoroughly screwed in trying to compete with their unwanted new ‘neighbours’: give the good land to the white people, and make ‘reservations’ of prime arable marginal scrublands to the First Nations, then criticize the FN for being ‘unable’ to farm unfarmable land, naturally because of their inherent inability to be ‘civilized’. Climate change is only making this worse, and the monocrop ways of the plains farmers in US agriculture is causing the near-complete depletion of the aquifers, meaning there is no viable way to make the reserved lands economically or even survivably farmable.

    Your/my USDA/Ministries of Ag & Indian and Northern Affairs tax dollars at work, making sure that our stereotypes don’t have to be disturbed.

    It’s a revolting cyclical setup for institutional abuse and poverty.

  101. Jacob Schmidt says

    But CaitieCat, the First Nations People are too uncivilized to farm land; why would you give them the good land? /spits

  102. morgan the interabang !? says

    It’s a revolting cyclical setup for institutional abuse and poverty.

    Emphasis on the revolting aspect. What grows in the desert? Blue Agave does. Makes great tequila.

    Fuck. I don’t know how we undo several hundred years worth of oppression. Shit, shit, shit.

    All we need to solve any intractable problems is the political will to do so. And that, unfortunately, we don’t have. Sorry to be such a pessimist.

  103. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    @CaitieCat

    First Nations (if you’ll excuse my using the Canadian term)

    :whisper: I only recently learned this myself, but the term “First Nations” in Canada only describes non-Inuit peoples east of British Columbia. In BC, we have the BC Bands, in the north, we have the Inuit or the Inuit Nations, the rest of Canada has the First Nations. :/whisper:

  104. says

    CD @640: OH! Immediate sense of shame. You’re utterly right, and I’ll try to remember to make my usage better in future. My apologies. Thank you for mentioning it. It’s something I’ve paid some attention to; my partner in university did her MA in Anthro on how James Bay Cree groups had used some of the skills gained unwillingly in residential schools to help build more effective community institutions based in their own cultures. So I make some effort to keep up with issues. I also live only a couple of hundred km from where Dudley George was murdered by the police in the early 90s, and in the province next to the place where the Oka siege happened (to my shame as a former Canadian soldier). The Six Nations Reserve is not far south of me. In fact, a treaty with one of the Six Nations (I’m sorry I can’t remember which) says they’re entitled to all the land within one mile of the Grand River, in perpetuity, which would take in probably forty per cent of the city I live in, which is probably why it’s thoroughly ignored.

    I wasn’t born in this country, nor were my ancestors, but I don’t see any way that absolves me of responsibility for what was done to make this country what it is, including the violence and oppression of the First and Inuit Nations, if I want to continue to live here.

  105. says

    Morgan

    And I’m going to have to study up on why the fuck hemp is so threatening,

    The short answer is that hemp is a very versatile industrial input, and the big corps that sell competing inputs don’t want the competition. Specifically, it would compete with woodpulp in papermaking (quite well, too; you get better paper for less effort, and the crop replenishes itself a sight faster too), nylon in rope and similar (Maybe not as much anymore, but DuPont was one of the major influences getting it outlawed for that reason), petroleum for diesel (it’s an excellent oilseed crop) and plastics, cotton in textiles generally (easier to grow, easier to harvest, and easier on the soil), and even concrete and other building materials.

    CaitieCat

    And in any case, the land ‘given’ to the First Nations (if you’ll excuse my using the Canadian term) is very rarely of farmable quality without huge inputs that aren’t made available (water, fertilizer, machinery for modern farming of indifferently-arable land).

    Which is one of the reasons why the hemp idea was such a good one for Pine Ridge. One of the wonderful things about hemp is that it’ll grow damn near anywhere with minimal inputs.

  106. Jacob Schmidt says

    Dalillama

    …and even concrete and other building materials.

    Eh? Hows that work? In concrete you got a mineral aggregate, cement, and water. How can hemp help that?

  107. says

    Ah, never mind. Fiber reinforcement. Got it.

    Not that there aren’t plenty of other plants suitable for that, but hemp is certainly one of the fastest growers.

  108. Hank Williams says

    Concrete is strong in compression, and weak in tension. The addition of steel reinforcement provides bulk tensile strength. The addition of polymer strands helps with surface tension and prevents cracking. Hemp is a crappy substitute for polymers, as it degrades quickly, but people advertise it is as a good idea because they seek uses for by-products of a security blanket they use to provide self-esteem and self-identity that is not afforded them by peers in the workplace.

  109. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    but people advertise it is as a good idea because they seek uses for by-products of a security blanket they use to provide self-esteem and self-identity that is not afforded them by peers in the workplace.

    What a fuckwitted analysis by a troll. I use hemp twine for holding things together, where I don’t need permanence. Funny how you sound like a DEA fuckwit.

  110. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    HW, if you can give an evidenced cogent reason why hemp made from very low grade cannibis shouldn’t be grown, link to it, or shut the fuck up. Only lying and bullshitting losers can’t put up, and won’t shut up.

  111. cicely says

    Yeah, happens here too. The slightest reminder that we’re breathing is incredibly, magically insulting and offensive.

    (To be read in a voice indicative of Strong Sarcasm.)
     
    Well, y’all are harshing the hell out of their Manifest Destiny mellow. It seriously interferes with their ability to piously lament The Tragedy of the Extinction of the Nobbley Savages; plus, cultural appropriation for the benefit of the clothing, sports, cheesy knick-knacks, and other industries, goes over much more smoothly and quietly if there’s no voice to be raised in protest.
     
    “Genocide” is something that only happens elsewhere. Never here.
     
    ‘Cause It’s Okay If It’s Us Doin’ It™.
    Policy statement of champions!
    -

  112. says

    Morgan:

    And I’m going to have to study up on why the fuck hemp is so threatening

    It isn’t. It does give the DEAssholes something to do, and a justification for their continued existence. They expend a lot of time destroying hemp crops and busting medical marijuana outlets in California.

    Hemp is an especially good crop in the Dakotas, because it’s sterling for crop rotation. It’s not like anyone around here is trying to grow it in hiding, and you can see every bloody crop planted for miles on end, and know exactly what it is.

    That said, I’m living in a state where the new sheriff in New Salem was driving around Almont, I suppose to familiarize themselves, and decided to park right in front of my house, glaring at the hops and me (I decided to sit down on my deck, have a smoke and a beer, while taking photos of the idiot). We have hops growing all over our property, but the ones in the front are mere feet from the road, they make a lovely living fence for part of the year. Yeah, lawman, if I’m gonna grow weed, I’m going to grow it smack in front of everyone. *eyeroll*

  113. morgan the interabang !? says

    Caine, not being very agrarian, I googled images of fields of hops and fields of marijuana. They do not look the same. The constabulary should be a tad better educated, ‘ya think?

  114. Hekuni Cat, MQG says

    Caine and cicely – *lots of pouncehugs and much chocolate*

    I’ll leave this batch of *hugs and more chocolate* for anyone who wants or needs them.

    I’m sorry I have been around to lend much support lately. I hope to do better this week.

  115. says

    Morgan:

    The constabulary should be a tad better educated, ‘ya think?

    Well, hops are Cannabaceae, but they don’t grow like weed at all. Lawman could have just asked, but nooooo, spending two hours parked outside my house was much, much better.

  116. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    Okay, now you’re far exceeding what I know.

    James Bay? No idea where it is, except that I have an approximate knowledge of where Cree are (all of Alberta, top half of Manitoba, Saskatchewan, & Ontario + a bunch of places out east, generally north of the MicMaq/MicMak/MicMac – so this doesn’t help me a lot).

    Dudley George? Have to look up that murder.

    The Oka siege – okay, yeah, I know about that.

    Grand River? Pffft. What’s that?

  117. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Grand River? Pffft. What’s that?

    The one I’m familiar with is in lower Michigan, and the reason Grand Rapids got its name. I presume they are talking about a river in Canada by that name, which I’m not familiar with.

  118. says

    And they’re doing everything they can to poison the water on a couple reservations for the sake of mining, so maybe they’ll get their wish.

    dunno if that comment was supposed to include oil-drilling, but that’s how the States around the Bakken are poisoning people on reservations:

    “My main concern is with the water and the amount of water that is being used for the hydraulic fracturing process,” says Mossett, who works with the Indigenous Environmental Network. “The problem is that this is our drinking water, and there are already stories in Killdeer about water and drinking wells being contaminated.”

    The concern that many have with hydraulic fracturing, which is the main method of drilling and extraction for the area, is the proximity to underground sources of drinking water.

    In order to extract the oil and natural gas in underground formations like the Bakken, a combination of water, chemicals and sand is blasted into the rock to allow the oil or natural gas to escape.

    But due to a provision in the US Energy Policy Act of 2005, chemicals and fluids used in hydraulic fracturing are exempt from regulations of the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).

    That provision is known as the “Halliburton loophole”, due to the fact that oil giant Halliburton, one of the largest providers of hydraulic fracturing services, was one of the main companies lobbying for exemption.

    The provision did keep diesel fuel under EPA regulations when used in hydraulic fracturing, but even that seems to have slipped through the cracks.

    A recent investigation by Democrats on the House Committee on Energy and Commerce found that oil and gas companies injected over 32 million gallons of diesel fuel into wells in 19 states between 2005 and 2009 – over 3 million of those gallons were in North Dakota. The investigation also found that no companies sought or applied for permits for the diesel fuel.

    “Fracking”, as it is often called, is not just a problem for communities in North Dakota, but across the country, where there are other large shale formations, particularly in New York, Pennsylvania, and Texas.

    “Are we going to be able to drink our water in 50 years? Are we going to be able to swim in our water?” asks RJ Smith, a young Hidatsa man who lives in the town of Twin Buttes.

    from an Al Jazeera report from 2011
    The article also includes mention of infrastructure being destroyed by the oil trucks, and since we know how that turned out in Texas, it’s pretty obvious what’ll happen to the damaged roads on ND’s reservations.

  119. says

    Yeah, lawman, if I’m gonna grow weed, I’m going to grow it smack in front of everyone. *eyeroll*

    actually, that’s how The Worst Person I Know (boyfriend’s brother) got his ass jailed last time: by growing a weed plant in the window of his trailer. IIRC they charged him not just with growing pot, but with child endangerment because of his kids who were living in that same trailer

  120. says

    oh, I should mention that The Worst Person I Know was still on Parole at that time, so it was entirely predictable that cops and similar would randomly show up to check up on him. But hey, trailer window facing the road, totally no one’s gonna notice, right?

  121. says

    Some, 10-ish years ago, I remember being hyped about a supposed hop-hemp hybrid, that would grow like hops, look like hops, fool the cops like hops, and get you high like primo marijuana. Some grower kept telling everyone on grower’s forums it was just about to hit the seedbanks, but eventually the thing just died over. Of course it was a hoax, but at the time I just couldn’t tell.

    I still wonder if he got anything but a laughter out of it? Can’t remember him asking for money, or pre-selling seeds or anything.

  122. says

    but people advertise it is as a good idea because they seek uses for by-products of a security blanket they use to provide self-esteem and self-identity that is not afforded them by peers in the workplace.

    I don’t know about its use for building materials, but it was actually factually used for paper and clothes for centuries. Seriously, the ‘security blanket’ is the byproduct. I don’t even care to use drugs, but these stupid fucking arguments against them are just bloody lame.

    Also, been watching nerds insist to me that they are TOTES INCAPABLE OF SEXISM. Makes me and the waifu laugh, when we’re not crying. Yet, this is STILL better than video gaming’s nerds… everyone’s got such a long way to go =.=;

  123. Hekuni Cat, MQG says

    Well, I wish I had something profound to say, but my brain is rather fuzzy right now. My meds have kicked in sooner than I thought they would. I’m on a clear liquid diet in preparation for my colonscopy on Wednesday, and I think that tipped the balance. Good night, all.

  124. Hank Williams says

    Here is a hint ding-dong. Paper and clothing are made of cellulose, and are designed to last for years. Hydrocarbons in contrast are used in building materials, and as they are an oil-based product that lasts forever, can be expected to perform over centuries of service.

    Oh, and lesbians.

  125. Ichthyic says

    Hydrocarbons in contrast are used in building materials, and as they are an oil-based product that lasts forever, can be expected to perform over centuries of service.

    unless they are designed not to, or are any types containing carbon bonds subject to UV degradation…

    you might recall that plastic packagers even tried to take advantage of this and produce packaging that would rapidly break down after exposure to UV. Not sure how that worked out in the end (what the byproducts ended up being), but most petrochemicals are in fact degraded by UV and other oxidizing agents like ozone.

    hell, I recall foam rubber (like the insulation around door panels, or the stuffing in chairs), never lasted more than a few years when I lived out in the desert. polypropylene is especially susceptible.

    you see, when you get a very hot sun hitting rocks, you get the production of low levels of ozone, and it builds to significant concentrations out there. So we had both UV AND ozone eating away at any plastics left outdoors.

  126. Ichthyic says

    …by the way, “Hank”…

    didn’t you say something even dumber further upthread? I think people were waiting for you to respond to their responses…

  127. Hank Williams says

    Buildings from the ancient age were not constructed with cellulose as a structural component, therefore we can enjoy their beauty today.

  128. Ingdigo Jump says

    Speaking of people who can’t be bothered to use Google…

    I rage quit listening to the Podcast “The Church of Awesome” tonight after wanting to throw my phone out the car in respond to classist fuckery and parroting bullshit busy bee Mormon work ethic bullshit. I probably should have quit a while ago. Any other listeners? Was having a good day and it felt like someone just took a dump in my ear with that shit.

  129. Ichthyic says

    Buildings from the ancient age were not constructed with cellulose as a structural component, therefore we can enjoy their beauty today.

    …because they were constructed of… petrochemicals?

    is there a reason you’re here, or did you just want to blather random drivel?

  130. Hank Williams says

    The first thing we need to understand is that people are not to be classified, other than Mormons suck. But the second thing to consider is my personal experience in which most, but not all, lesbians smell bad and have body mass indices in excess of thirty (30). This concerns me for two reasons (1) they are unpleasant to observe and (2) I am concerned about their health. Those extra forty (40) pounds to two hundred (200) pounds are not good for the lesbians’ blood pressure, or their blood-sugar levels. In the name of TheGreatSpaghettiMonster people should be entitled to enjoy good health, and every society should be allowed to celebrate and enjoy beauty. The pressures of the heterosexual marketplace would therefore be beneficial to lesbians.

    So it is my proposition that lesbians think about sex, and enter into an exercise program.

  131. says

    Ichthyic:

    didn’t you say something even dumber further upthread? I think people were waiting for you to respond to their responses…

    Nah, no one wants to hear from Revenant Hank. They probably have a pig anus stuck in their throat anyway.

  132. Ichthyic says

    The first thing we need to understand is that people are not to be classified

    who’s this “we” you speak of?

  133. says

    no ancient mudbrick, either.

    and ok, Fachwerk is medieval rather than ancient, but it doesn’t exist either for lack of polymers and is consequently also not listed by the UNESCO

  134. Jacob Schmidt says

    But the second thing to consider is my personal experience in which most, but not all, lesbians smell bad and have body mass indices in excess of thirty (30).

    Hanks personal experience should now be universally considered. That or Hank is an idiot.

  135. says

    apparently the heterosexual marketplace has failed in my case. I am fat, straight, and get laid as often as I wish to.

    boring left-baiting troll is boring.

  136. says

    Ok how about we all just ignore obvious troll now? or am I doing Thunderd00me wrong?

    The usual procedure is to insult him until he crosses the line and gets banned. That might change if he ever actually posts an argument worth tearing apart.

    Hank williams
    Seriously, mate, get a better schtick, or better yet just go away.

  137. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    Hank Williams –

    I am ][ this close to sending PZ an alert on your lesbian baiting.

    Knock it off now, and permanently, or you will quickly find yourself facing PZ’s whimsical but dictatorial wrath.

  138. says

    Well the lesbian insulting probably crossed the border already, but they just seem so ineffectual and ban baiting I didn’t even bother to notify the monitors. Are they a little practice troll? Something gummy everyone can get their sniny on?

  139. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    While I agree with you that pathetic troll is pathetic, and you should know that the pathetic nature of PT’s efforts, in fact, is responsible for the reprieve/last chance I’ve offered, I still think this is true:

    when you start shooting your AK47 at people, the cops don’t need to wait for you to hit someone to throw you in the dungeon.

  140. Hank Williams says

    George Orwell teaches us:

    “The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.”

    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden teaches us:

    Hank Williams – I am this close to sending PZ an alert on your lesbian baiting. Knock it off now, and permanently, or you will quickly find yourself facing PZ’s whimsical but dictatorial wrath.

    It’s kind of humorous, but at the same time it is not. Euclid teaches us: “In right-angled triangles the square on the side opposite the right angle equals the sum of the squares on the sides containing the right angle.”

  141. says

    Crip Dyke:

    I am ][ this close to sending PZ an alert on your lesbian baiting.

    There’s already an alert on Revenant Hank. Put it up on the 8th. Adding to it is fine with me, though. I’m bored silly with them already, and I’m almost sure it’s a case of sockpuppeting.

  142. Ichthyic says

    Are they a little practice troll? Something gummy everyone can get their sniny on?

    smells like a familiar stink to me. I’m going with sockpuppet.

  143. Ichthyic says

    It’s kind of humorous, but at the same time it is not.

    it’s black, yet somehow white…

    squishy, yet at the same time firm…

    kettle, but yet pot!

    run along, little doggie.

  144. says

    [quote]Here is a hint ding-dong. Paper and clothing are made of cellulose, and are designed to last for years. Hydrocarbons in contrast are used in building materials, and as they are an oil-based product that lasts forever, can be expected to perform over centuries of service.[/quote]
    Yeah, see, if you didn’t catch the relevant point, it’s that it was bloody stupid to say that hemp’s other uses are just byproducts of the drug.

    Oh, and lesbians.

    Yes, that is the word for us, your language skills must amaze your parents.

    No meat on this one, compared to the tasty morsels I had earlier.

  145. Amphiox says

    Euclid teaches us: “In right-angled triangles the square on the side opposite the right angle equals the sum of the squares on the sides containing the right angle.”

    But you see, Hank, Euclid was wrong, as that only applies to a flat euclidean plane, but in reality, neither the earth nor the universe is so.

  146. Owlmirror says

    I wonder if the troll du jour is a sock of Philip Bruce Heywood, the man so dumb he couldn’t figure out how not to use his brother’s facebook account to comment on FtB?

    Or is this a different jackass who enjoys vomiting up non-sequitur word salad?

  147. Owlmirror says

    Building materials:

    I recently watched a show (possibly from the series Strip the City?) on Roman engineering.

    It seems that the plain on which Rome is built was the location where, some millions of years ago, multiple eruptions covered the area with meters and meters of volcanic ash. The Romans discovered that the rock formed from this ash layer was excellent for making cement and concrete, and many buildings in Rome are made using this material. And the city of Rome sits on top of the ash layer, now riddled with mines going back thousands of years.

    I was thinking about the longevity of volcanic ash, and was reminded of the footprints at Laetoli, which have lasted for about 3.7 million years.

    So there’s that.

    I also saw an explanation (not sure if this was the same show) on why the south side of the Coliseum fell: It turns out that there used to be a river or creek running through the area. The river silted up, and the bed was filled in, so that part of the foundation was on relatively soft sediment. Strong earthquake+soft sediment “fill” under the foundations = extra shakiness and tumbling walls.

    Still, that wall did last more than a thousand years, and most of the rest of the building still stands.

  148. Esteleth, statistically significant to p ≤ 0.001 says

    Comment by Hank Williams blocked. [unhush]​[show comment]

    Ahhh that’s better…

  149. Tony! The Immorally Inferior Queer Shoop! says

    Ok, I am a bit high at the moment, but I think my brain is functioning enough to see that Hank is channelling Annejones and StevoR.
    “Lesbians smell bad”…? The fuck?

  150. Tony! The Immorally Inferior Queer Shoop! says

    Hank is probably the world champ at playing 6 Degrees of Separation.
    ****
    (Will probably regret this, but feline curiosity has the better of me)…
    Hank:
    As coherently as possible, please explain how someone is a bully for calling you an idiot.

    Extra Credit: can you define “bullying”?

  151. carlie says

    Some, 10-ish years ago, I remember being hyped about a supposed hop-hemp hybrid, that would grow like hops, look like hops, fool the cops like hops, and get you high like primo marijuana

    They’re in the same family, so hybridizing isn’t beyond possible. However, to have only that single trait of chemical production being the one present is highly unlikely without genetic engineering. With hybridizing, what you’d have to do is introgressive hybridization – get to a hybrid that has the high chemical content, then start backcrossing with only the hop parent to restore all of its physical features while not losing the chemical production trait. Unless one is really, really lucky, that would take hundreds of plants and dozens of crosses over many generations (more than the average grower would have the ability to fund and manage).

  152. cicely says

    Ingdigo Jump:

    Here’s looking at Euclid

    I see what you did, there.
    ;)
    -

    I wonder if bi women only smell a little bad…

    They don’t smell half bad?
     
    I dunno; I don’t think there’s much to be done with material this low-quality.
    Clearly, HW is not a comedian.
    -

  153. Pteryxx says

    —continuing Portia’s TW—

    Portia: probably the phrase would be “reproductive coercion”, which applies to forced abortion as well as contraceptive sabotage.

    and as the cherry on the garbage sundae for that article, none of reproductive coercion, forced abortion, or contraceptive sabotage get treated as crimes… because that would mean acknowledging the pregnant person had some sort of rights that were transgressed, and we can’t have that now can we.

    Welden was indicted under the rarely used federal Unborn Victims of Violence Act, a murder charge that carries a life sentence.

    …dammit.

  154. Portia says

    MORE TW FOR SAME TOPIC

    Pteryxx:

    Thanks, that’s the concept I was reaching for. I noticed that too, after posting the article. The crime he was charged with wasn’t “against” the pregnant person. Pretty damned disgusting.

    The people saying that he should have this choice (to force termination) because people with uteruses have the choice to terminate…they scare the shit out of me. And they’re everywhere.

  155. Portia says

    More TW – reproductive coercion.

    Pteryxx:

    On further thought, it was probably used in this case (instead of something like battery) because it was the heaviest sentence they could go for. Doesn’t change the shitty fact that crime against fetus > crime against pregnant person in the eyes of the law. But at least the prosecutors went after him vigorously, it seems like.

  156. Amphiox says

    How much credence does a “in my experience” claim from a man whose experience is so limited as to not even include non-euclidean geometry have anyways?

  157. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    For everyone, that they might enjoy the mocking of Hank Williams:

    Euclid teaches us: “In right-angled triangles the square on the side opposite the right angle equals the sum of the squares on the sides containing the right angle.”

    No. Euclid teaches us no such thing.

    1st: “right triangles” is the term, not “right-angled triangles”.

    2nd: Why is there a square on the side of the triangle opposite from, well, anything?
    ……………Oh, did you mean the square of the length of the hypotenuse?
    ……………Where the F did you get “the square on the side” from???

    3rd: “equals the sum of the squares on the sides” – more squares on sides?
    …………….Hold on while I diagram this, okay?
    …………….And holy F, how do I sum Euclidian squares that are on the side of something?

    4th: “on the sides containing the right angle” – a line segment is one-dimensional.
    …………….Neither on its own, nor with another segment, can it contain an angle.
    …………….or did you mean the sides which form the right angle?

    5th: Bwahahahahahaa
    …………….And may I just add, Euclid. That word does not mean what you think it means.

    6th: Bwahahahahahaa
    …………….May I introduce you to Mr. Pythagoras, someone who might have some opinion on what Mr. Euclid does and doesn’t teach?

  158. Pteryxx says

    —-TW still in effect—-

    and even in that short article, I’m seeing a bunch of red flags. They went to the boyfriend’s *father’s* clinic for an ultrasound? How likely is that in Florida? The boyfriend was the one to tell her she needed antibiotics, instead of a medical practitioner, and she trusted him? Something smells like a really bad relationship situation all around. Not looking forward to finding out more about this case.

    On further thought, it was probably used in this case (instead of something like battery) because it was the heaviest sentence they could go for.

    Well, yeah. And there are reasons *why* that law and its heavy sentence are on the books for prosecutors to reach for. The collateral damage to the prosecutors’ going after the guy, is to establish further legal precedent for calling abortion murder.