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Sep 02 2013

[Lounge #433]

Jellyfish_beautiful

This is the lounge. You can discuss anything you want, but you will do it kindly.

Status: Heavily Moderated; Previous thread

660 comments

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  1. 1
    Markita Lynda—threadrupt

    PZ! Just wanted to let you know that we found The Happy Atheist in the Barnes & Noble in Hartford, Connecticut, and bought a copy. There were still a few in stock.

  2. 2
    Weedless Monkey

    mouthyb

    The bar here does marinated, grilled chicken strips, homemade chipotle salsa, tortilla chips, bean puree, homemade nacho cheese sauce (made like one makes welsh rarebit–with a roux, boatloads of cheddar and green chilies), sour cream and most of a salad on top, including half an avocado.

    *drool*

    I know what I’ll be eating tomorrow and the day after that. If I can find a ripe avocado.

  3. 3
    cicely

    Handsome jellyfish, good contrast with background.
    -

  4. 4
    praxis.makes.perfect (Just call me Prax. It's easier to type)

    I just have something quick and off topic for any post in the last few pages:

    I want to say a big thank you to everyone here who has been so welcoming and willing to bring me into the conversation. I’m not a newbie to Pharyngula, but I have not been a regular commenter. I appreciate the way everyone who is a regular commenter has made me feel not only welcome, but valued.

    I particularly appreciate the way in which I’ve been called out for saying a few things that were seen as problematic. It’s nice to know no one will tolerate any kind of ickiness here, unintentional or not, and that as long as someone is willing to apologize, retract or intelligently defend their words or opinions they will continue to be seen as valuable members of the community.

    It’s comforting to know there’s a place where rational thought, honest discussion and healthy debate are held in such high regard.

    It’s also a joy to know that no matter how far I’ve come that there’s a long way to go but that there are people who are more than willing to help me make that journey to being a better all-around human being and will do so with humour and wit… and that I can do the same for others.

    This is a great place. It really, really is.

    Thanks to all of you. You’re wonderful, funny, smart, punny, witty, righteously angry, caring, open, honest and everything someone like me could ask for in an online community.

    In short: You rock my socks.

  5. 5
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    praxis:

    I’m glad you’re commenting more. It’s been good to see you around, and here’s a pile of fluffy hugs. Thanks for saying those nice things, it’s how I feel about the community too.

  6. 6
    chigau (違う)

    That jellyfish is prettier than my jellyfish.

  7. 7
    michaeld

    Boo dorm rooms and administrators… grumbles crankily to himself….

  8. 8
    Inaji

    Praxis:

    In short: You rock my socks.

    You rock my socks, you’re a fierce advocate. I’m so happy you’re feeling safer. I was so worried you’d leave.

  9. 9
    Inaji

    Vasco, Agnes, Basil, Dexter aka The Phantom Rat, and Beatrice are up at Rattitude.

  10. 10
    praxis.makes.perfect (Just call me Prax. It's easier to type)

    @Portia:

    Thanks for the pile. Right back atcha!

  11. 11
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Caine:

    squee! :)

    How’s Angua?

  12. 12
    mouthyb, Vagina McTits

    Weed Monkey: Well made nachos are a thing of beauty, aren’t they? :D

  13. 13
    praxis.makes.perfect (Just call me Prax. It's easier to type)

    @Caine:

    Oh… Oh man… Now I’m getting all gushy. (Seriously. Maybe it’s just a stress release thing, but I’m kinda misty-eyed. I really respect you. I have for a long time. That you think I should stay… that you WANT me to stay… Awwww…. shucks.)

    I feel better knowing that stuff that’s intolerable is not going to be tolerated… if that makes any sense.

    I’d much rather stay than feel like I have to leave. You’re a big part of that. I can’t thank you enough.

  14. 14
    cicely

    chigau, it’s just that this jellyfish posed itself more tidily.
    :)
    -

  15. 15
    Inaji

    Portia:

    How’s Angua?

    She’s doing just fine! I’ll have a pic of her up at Rattitude in the next day or two. I’ll let you know.

  16. 16
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)
    How’s Angua?

    She’s doing just fine! I’ll have a pic of her up at Rattitude in the next day or two. I’ll let you know.

    Thanks!

  17. 17
    Fern

    Hi, Loungers.

    I’ve never commented in the lounge before, and I don’t comment that much in general, although I’ve read here for years. So I figured I’d introduce myself. I live on the east coast of the U.S., and I’m a lawyer, specializing in civil rights issues. I also like to knit strange animals.

    So, yeah. If you see me around here, that’s my deal.

  18. 18
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Welcome in, Fern!

    Knitting lawyer solidarity! *fistbump*

  19. 19
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    (Or lawyering knitter, if you prefer. “Lawyer” is my favorite verb).

  20. 20
    Inaji

    Hallo, Fern. I’ve liked your posts, hope to see more of those.

  21. 21
    thunk: turmite city

    hey all!

    Haven’t been around here much. Basil’s still cute, and so are his chocolate drinking skills.

    I’m… just struggling with vague depressionanxiety through all of August, and it’s still a huge baaah.

    It’s counterproductive to worry about the future instead of living.

  22. 22
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    Hello Fern, and welcome
    praxis
    Welcome back

  23. 23
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    It’s counterproductive to worry about the future instead of living.

    It’s also totally natural, so don’t punish yourself for not having Perfect Cognitive Processing. *hugs* and good to see you.

  24. 24
    Inaji

    Hey, Thunk. Hang in there, day to day is all we have sometimes. Basil is adorable, even if he does get too serious on the grooming front. (He takes hair care very serious.)

  25. 25
    eigenperson

    Praxis: Count me as another person who was very upset when you said might be leaving. I understood why, but I’m glad it isn’t happening after all.

    Plus, after all those people in the rules threads saying “Pharyngula comments are horrible ’cause people keep telling me I’m wrong,” it’s nice to hear someone saying nice things for a change :)

  26. 26
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    what eigenperson said, 1000%.

  27. 27
    gobi's sockpuppet's meatpuppet

    Consoling myself about about my nachos deprivation with the knowledge that the slowcooker is on!
    I just have to resist peeking and prodding it now.
    …and hopefully the puppetmistress won’t read the Lounge until after dinner :)
    You are all invited but apologies to the vegans and vegetarians as there is meat involved.

  28. 28
    Weedless Monkey

    mouthyb, absolutely. :)

    Unfortunately neither my nearest grocery store nor the hypermarket a few kilometres away no longer carry chipotle paste any more, so I’ll have to wing it with oven fried jalapeños and liquid smoke.

    And when I get my social security money in a few weeks I’ll by this. (link in Finnish, a 1 kg jar of chipotle paste that I’ve eaten and loved)

  29. 29
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    I am having the hardest time picking a color scheme for my living room. Siiiiiiiiigh.

    /whine.

  30. 30
    Fern

    Portia, Caine, Dalillama: Thanks, and hi to you too!

  31. 31
    Weedless Monkey

    A bland, blunt, blueish warship grey with lime, purple and pink highlights?

    Ok that might not be desirable, I’ve just been playing the first Halo game recently. A lot. (And it still is bloody great.)

  32. 32
    Fern

    Wait, Portia, if you’re a lawyer too, is your nym from The Merchant of Venice?

  33. 33
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Fern:

    Yep!

  34. 34
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Weed Monkey:

    You’re…not far off. I’m in love with a damask fabric in the grayish color you’ve described, and my couch is plum colored, and I want some greenish in there somewhere…so…nice job :)

  35. 35
    gobi's sockpuppet's meatpuppet

    @Portia
    Just paint colours? Or other stuff like furniture as well?
    We had the same dilemma a few years ago rebuilding after the floods. For paint, we got a sample pot and painted a large cardboard square so it could be stuck on the wall for testing. Paint chip samples are too small to get a real feel for the colour. You can move the big square around to see how the light on different walls affects it.
    When you find a colour you like, get it mixed as a half strength – we actually went quarter strength. The colour intensity is always stronger when you see it on a wall.

  36. 36
    Weedless Monkey

    Portia, :D

  37. 37
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    gobi’s sockpuppet’s meatpuppet:

    I doubt my landlord would mind if I painted, but I’m not up to that challenge atm. The walls are a neutral tan-ish color that’s pretty unnoticable. But now that I think of it…I could paint it whatever I wanted! Thanks for the note about intensity, I hadn’t heard that before. I do love intense colors though, it’s always been one of my things. And I guess that’s part of my problem right now, is I’m worried I’ll go with what catched my eye first and then think it’s garish later.

    What I’m debating over right now is two or three colors with which to theme the room, and corresponding fabrics to choose to cover pillows and cushions and paint colors for end tables and other accent pieces. The only things I have that are a certain color so far are the couch and matching armchair, which are a dark purple/plum which looks brown sometimes.

  38. 38
    Socio-gen, something something...

    Well, it seems the ragweediness wasn’t, or else has morphed into a head cold with 103-degree fever and chills. Joyful. Like I have time to be sick…

    *offers tea and choice of fresh scones or oatmeal cookies (no abominations raisins)*

    mouthyb:
    Mmmm…that stew sounds delicious. I love my slow cooker — toss everything in before I leave, come home to a hot dinner.

    praxis:
    Hello from a not-totally newbie but recent re-delurker! I feel exactly the same way about this place and I’m glad you’ve decided to stay.

    Fern:
    Hello and welcome in! Scone?

    thunk:
    Hey!

    Portia:
    How about light sage green walls with crisp white trim and darker sage accents?

    (Says the person with no eye for colors and little creativity.)

  39. 39
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    “Catched”? “Catched”?!

    Wow…

    And I snickered when my niece said “The sun comed out, I can get back in the pool now!”

  40. 40
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Socio-gen:

    Damn! I hope you feel better soon. Scones sound delish.

    Sage is actually not a color I had thought of, and I like sage. Light sage. *ponders* :)

  41. 41
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Praxis:
    I am glad you feel welcome here.

    Reading your comment solidifies my opinion against the Argument for Civility. When its a question of hurt feelings, inadvertent dogpiling, or even false accusations of assholery
    VERSUS
    Helping to foster an environment that is welcoming to all, with specific attention paid to unrestrained support for the members of oppressed minority groups
    ..the latter gets my vote hands down.

  42. 42
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Fern:
    Welcome knitter of strange animals. The bar is on your left and the knitting room is past the pantry on the right.

  43. 43
    gobi's sockpuppet's meatpuppet

    Portia:
    Good idea to pick a couple of colours and theme from there.
    We decided on our ‘palette’ and stuck to it ruthlessly. The new floors were going to be australian blackbutt timber (not black at all) so we went with a leafy, eucalyptus green and an intense but slightly off white. Some walls white, some green. The white walls also bounce light to enhance the other colours in the room.
    Be bold! Be brave! :)

  44. 44
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Portia:
    I have heard some support for the notion that women like pink…

    ::stands here awaiting the pelting of pink berries::

  45. 45
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Be bold! Be brave! :)

    Thank you! That’s what I needed to hear.

    I love hearing other people’s ideas!

    Except silly Shoopy ideas. ;) Even 4 year old me would be giving you a contemptuous stinkeye right now. *rains down hail of berries*

  46. 46
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    I think the color in this fabric would be lovely on a wall. :)

  47. 47
    gobi's sockpuppet's meatpuppet

    Socio-gen:
    I had to do the conversion to newfangled metric there… 39.44 C is not good.
    I hope you feel better soon.

  48. 48
    Socio-gen, something something...

    Portia:
    Thanks for the get well wishes. I like the grayishy-green of it, though I don’t know if it would go with the plum furnishings.

    I also like the color in that fabric!

    gobi’s:
    Thank you. I’ve taken some acetaminophen and it’s going down again. Lots of tea and chicken soup being consumed as well, so hopefully it will go away pronto.

    Metric… *shudder* I’m having to do mathy things in my Astronomy class and it’s been interesting. (However, I can now tell you how far from the Sun the Earth would be, in meters, IF the sun were the size of a tennis ball.)

  49. 49
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Thanks Socio-gen. I hope your well being keeps trending upwards :)

    I don’t know if I like damask as much as I think I do or if it’s just really everywhere, trendy style. (My taste does not exist in a vaccum, ha).

  50. 50
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    I am having the hardest time picking a color scheme for my living room. Siiiiiiiiigh.

    /whine.

    …The only things I have that are a certain color so far are the couch and matching armchair, which are a dark purple/plum which looks brown sometimes.

    Walls: warm, somewhat pale yellow or a yellow-tinted cream

    Accent colors: dark brown, lavender (not overly bluish – an in-between blue-yellow lavender), a touch more yellow, tan (think pale khaki), dark rich green (think semi-bright evergreen), more plum, a little black (of course)

    Allowable touches :): pale pink

  51. 51
    gobi's sockpuppet's meatpuppet

    You would be amazed at how often metric isn’t used in this metric country. No one except the police measures the height of people in metric. I am 6 feet, not 180cm.
    I got a real metric smack in the face in Paris : decilitres and centigrams anyone?
    How about kilopascals? :- P

  52. 52
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    SC:

    Thank you! Would not-too-bright coral be an allowable touch? Or would it look too orangey with the other colors?

  53. 53
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    Welcomes and general good wishes to Fern and Praxis.

    Also, when considering knitting unusual animals, has anyone linked to this lately: one of the weirder knit animals in existence.

  54. 54
    gobi's sockpuppet's meatpuppet

    Portia:
    This might be overkill, but you could try an online colour palette tool like this:
    https://kuler.adobe.com/create/color-wheel/
    It won’t give you THE colours but it might spark ideas for contrasts etc…

  55. 55
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    That’s such a cool tool! I’ve been experimenting with colors since I was old enough to hold a crayon, and that is one of the neatest things I’ve seen.

  56. 56
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    Thank you!

    You’re welcome – my pleasure!

    Would not-too-bright coral be an allowable touch? Or would it look too orangey with the other colors?

    Small touches of a not-too-bright coral in objects would be lovely; in fabrics, I’d be wary.

  57. 57
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    SC:

    I gotcha. So I could paint a small lamp that color, but not incorporate it into the theme so much that it is in the pillow covers.

    Here’s what I conceived based on your suggestions, in gobi’s linked site: https://kuler.adobe.com/Living-Room-1—SCs-inspiration-color-theme-2864206/

    Am I in the ballpark? I’m thinking that since the walls are already close to a khaki color I’ll leave them that way and paint an endtable the light yellow. Is interior decorating your career, hobby?

  58. 58
    CaitieCat, getaway driver

    *waves hi to Fern*

    Slow day. Nice to have one. Hiding from the super so as to avoid irritating questions about the rent. I feel like something out of George Thorogood.

    Can someone mix me up one bourbon, one scotch, and one beer?

  59. 59
    Fern

    Crip Dyke @ 53: I can’t quite deal with the fact that the buttplug-hiding octopus’ name is Dimples.

    Hi to everybody else!

  60. 60
    A. Noyd

    Was anyone here under the mistaken impression that gay rights are about, ya know, LGBT(etc) people? Well, this lovely Tumblr will set you… uh… straight: straight voices on gay rights.

  61. 61
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    Here’s what I conceived based on your suggestions, in gobi’s linked site: https://kuler.adobe.com/Living-Room-1—SCs-inspiration-color-theme-2864206/

    Am I in the ballpark?

    Yes. But darker green, lighter yellow, lighter lavender. It’s less a matter of brightness and more a matter of richness and classicism.

    I’m thinking that since the walls are already close to a khaki color I’ll leave them that way and paint an endtable the light yellow.

    Your walls are khaki? I’d paint them a light yellow or yellow/cream and the end table…well, I’d have to see it. I’m thinking…not a light yellow. Is it a good wood? What does it look like?

  62. 62
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    we only accept genuine submissions not things making fun of straight people!

    Well, I mean, duh. Can’t make funof straight people, especially not allies. And the cherry on top is the MLKJr. quote.

    It’s less a matter of brightness and more a matter of richness and classicism.

    See, that has always been my downfall, too drawn to “OMG Pretty bright colors!” to make real cogent design choices. But the whole idea of planning out a room from scratch and diverting from the red/yellow theme of the rest of the house was to…divert. :)

    Your walls are khaki? I’d paint them a light yellow or yellow/cream

    It might be more tan than khaki, I’m not sure. If I get ambitious, I will paint them. They are tall walls, 12 ft high, and 3 of them are stucco, I think is the word for it.

    The end table is not good wood, I think it’s actually more of a nightstand. Three drawers, I got it for $3 at a garage sale on Saturday. I can post a picture in the morning. I bought a drawershaped basket to replace a missing drawer but I saw that on Pinterest so it’s gotta be a legit decorating choice, right? ;)

  63. 63
    chigau (違う)

    A. Noyd #60
    Well.
    I am pleased to know that I am “not emotionally biased”.
    (They do seem sincere.)

  64. 64
    eigenperson

    #60 A. Noyd:

    Ugh… that was even worse than I expected. Seriously? “Biased?”

    I guess if you consider yourself to be a full human being deserving of full rights, one cannot trust your point of view, because you’re “biased” on the matter, so we, the rest of us, who are completely objective, had better be the ones to weigh the pros and cons of the issue and decide it once and for all. Fortunately for you, we have decided in your favor! Hooray us, right?

  65. 65
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    It just gets worse as you scroll down. So much navel gazing…

    They need to ask a LGBT* person what their definition of ally is. But that would require them listening to a marginalized group they’re not a part of, so…

  66. 66
    gworroll

    I suspect the person behind the tumblr got called out for being a crappy ally.

    When that happens to me, I don’t create a whiny tumblr, I listen and find out why I’m a crappy ally and make the appropriate changes. Theoretically I might break off from being an ally if I think the arguments that I suck themselves suck, but that hasn’t actually happened yet.

  67. 67
  68. 68
    Dutchgirl

    Long, frustrating, frustratingly long day at work. I’m working with a new employee who’s on his 8th day, and I had to go over all the basic procedures again. We (owner and the other employee) all agree there’s something going on with the new employee, some learning disability that we, and possibly he himself, don’t know about. We’re not sure what to do. He is unable the to the work he is supposed to do, but firing him seems wrong too somehow. Plus he was supposed to cover my maternity leave…
    So, Caine @9, thank you for fuzzy friends. My boys are carousing on my feet as I write this.

  69. 69
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    Is interior decorating your career, hobby?

    Hee. I was raised (fortunately) to be a scholar, and interior design was one of the few avenues from which I was actively discouraged (I did manage to major in art history :)). Nevertheless, I’ve maintained a “style file” since literally the late ’80s – clothes, rooms, boats, whatever, including a whole section devoted just to colors. I also love restoring furniture, and will be posting about it on my blog. So yes, hobby. I adore talking about and helping people with it.

  70. 70
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    I adore talking about and helping people with it.

    It is just my lucky day, then!

    Restoring furniture: I am such an amateur but I love transforming a piece or a set. I sold my first total redo just last week.

  71. 71
    Dutchgirl

    Was anyone here under the mistaken impression that gay rights are about, ya know, LGBT(etc) people? Well, this lovely Tumblr will set you… uh… straight: straight voices on gay rights.

    Why did I have to go and look at that Tumblr? After the day I had, that was a very poor decision on my part.

  72. 72
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Dutchgirl:

    *hugs*

    I’m sorry work is so crappy : /

  73. 73
    Owlmirror

    “Catched”? “Catched”?!
     
    Wow…
     
    And I snickered when my niece said “The sun comed out, I can get back in the pool now!”

    I discovered the OnBeing podcast a while back, and downloaded some of the episodes that interested me. The podcast is overtly religious, which is annoying, but I can cope when she has on scientists who usually mostly talk about research rather than faith.

    Anyway, I thought this one, about language learning and development, was interesting.

    Transcript excerpt:

    Dr. Gleason: Well, you know, I think it’s the other way around. I mean, we — I think we’ve already established that I’m a verbal kind of person, who can’t resist playing with language and everything. I obviously noticed a lot of what they were doing, but I didn’t set up experiments with them. But look, for instance, one of my children said something that has become — that people don’t seem to know she said because I see people from all — all spectra of the linguistic world quoting it.
     
    One of my kids came home from preschool one day and she said to me, “My teacher holded the baby rabbits and I patted them.” And I said, “Oh, your teacher held the baby rabbits.” And she said, “Yes.” I said, “What did you say again?” And she said, “She holded the baby rabbits and we patted them.” And then I said, “Well, did you say she held them tightly?” And she said to me, “No. She holded them loosely.” So here I’m thinking, well, I keep saying “held” she keeps saying “holded,” you know, anybody who thinks that children acquire language through imitation is making a mistake.
     
    I wrote a paper called, “Do Children Imitate?” not based — just with that as a thought because then I went out and found lots of kids that I made a thing like the “wug test” except it was all irregulars and I gave the kids the answer.

  74. 74
    A. Noyd

    Dutchgirl (#71)

    Why did I have to go and look at that Tumblr? After the day I had, that was a very poor decision on my part.

    :(
    Should I have added a </sarcasm> tag or a warning? I’m not always careful about that.

  75. 75
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Owlmirror:

    Very interesting indeed. I’ve listened to that on the radio before here and there. The religiosity drove me off, I think, but I remember thinking the concept was a good one.

  76. 76
    Dutchgirl

    Thank you Portia. The situation makes me rather sad, but I’m also dead tired from doing all my work plus his work today. I hope it can be resolved in a fair way. I won’t work with him again for a week though, so there’s that. Also, while I was at work, husband cleaned the whole kitchen!

  77. 77
    WMDKitty -- Survivor

    *stumbles out of a room, with a haze of greenish smoke following*

    Heya, Fern! Welcome!

    *offers a fat joint of welcoming*

  78. 78
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Here’s another tumblr, but it will make you laugh at the kyriarchy, not feel defeated (hopefully). http://wtfplus.tumblr.com/

  79. 79
    gobi's sockpuppet's meatpuppet

    Portia:
    Dont get too caught up in getting the exact colours on screen – translating screen colours to pigments and fabrics has been the bane of designers since screens were invented. Arm yourself with the idea of your palette and then go looking off-screen for examples.
    ..and don’t underestimate the power of the extract-colours-from-an-uploaded-photo thingy. Just throw images at it – gardens, vibrant street scenes, etc.

    Oh, and what SC said :)

  80. 80
    Dutchgirl

    A. Noyd: Oh, no, your sarcasm came through loud and clear on my end. I just couldn’t control my morbid curiosity to my own detriment. Curiosity and cats and all that. Your post was fine! The people/person behind that mess, not so much.

  81. 81
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    See, that has always been my downfall, too drawn to “OMG Pretty bright colors!” to make real cogent design choices.

    That’s how having a limited palette helps. You can make a mistake about some weird thing in a classic color, but it’s relatively unlikely. Limiting yourself to a palette makes you focus on the design.

    It might be more tan than khaki, I’m not sure. If I get ambitious, I will paint them. They are tall walls, 12 ft high, and 3 of them are stucco, I think is the word for it.

    Tall walls are nice!

    The end table is not good wood, I think it’s actually more of a nightstand. Three drawers, I got it for $3 at a garage sale on Saturday. I can post a picture in the morning. I bought a drawershaped basket to replace a missing drawer but I saw that on Pinterest so it’s gotta be a legit decorating choice, right? ;)

    I’d love to see a picture.

  82. 82
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Arm yourself with the idea of your palette and then go looking off-screen for examples.

    Good call. Good to remember. And that screen thing, ha. I’m all psyched up about the planning I think. Because when it’s in planning, I haven’t executed it and become disappointed in myself yet. ha.

    ..and don’t underestimate the power of the extract-colours-from-an-uploaded-photo thingy. Just throw images at it – gardens, vibrant street scenes, etc.

    Neat.

    Limiting yourself to a palette makes you focus on the design.

    I see what you mean. Thanks ever so much for the help limiting myself. That’s my trouble, I get off on a wild hair before nailing down the colors, then I can’t decide on anything.

    Tall walls are nice!

    I do love them. Except when centipedes get to the tops of them…but that’s another story.. :)

  83. 83
    Dutchgirl

    Portia @78, so where I work is a clothing boutique where we make our own clothing line, with our work space incorporated into the shop. I am the main cutter, pattern maker/drafter, and custom order taker/maker. I love it. And I make lots of custom plus size garments that actually fit our customers. I feel very proud that our items would never be a wtf-plus-size. So yes, it did make me laugh, and reminded me of why I do actually love my work.

  84. 84
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Dutchgirl:

    Hooray for randomly posting just the right thing to cheer you up! that makes me really happy. Your job sounds really neat, too.

    …my interior design will involve sewing…which I’m not good at…want to get in the Portia Needs Advice Queue? ;) (Kidding, kidding, sounds like you need some rest).

  85. 85
    Dutchgirl

    Portia: not today perhaps, but I can certainly help you out with sewing questions and advice in general. Of course, I’m not the only one in these parts to sew. Did Gilliel get the new machine yet?

  86. 86
    gobi's sockpuppet's meatpuppet

    The puppetmistress took her new pair of trousers in for alterations and was rudely corrected: (smug voice) “women don’t wear trousers, they wear pants“.

    I suggested next time she is confronted with this she should say: “and gentlemen don’t comment on such things”

  87. 87
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Ha, good point…honestly the things some people get particular about…

  88. 88
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Ok, SC, here’s another color question. I just remembered the panel drapes I had planned in an upholstery fabric that’s federal blue. Could I sub in that hue (and I do mean hue, would it be ok to use different shades of it?) for the green? I ask because I want to have a cohesive design that looks like a grown up lives there.

  89. 89
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    No.

  90. 90
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Damn.

    Well, they’ll match the bed room.

  91. 91
    mildlymagnificent

    I’d say if you wanted to use that, you’d have to completely change over to a “jewel colours” or other rich and deep palette. Seeing as you want to get away from red and cream, you’d make yourself a bit miserable I suspect.

  92. 92
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Ah, I see what you mean, mildlymagnificent.

    You’d think I’d know more about color by this point in my life.

  93. 93
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    I’m really liking SC’s suggestions. Perhaps because The Fish Bowl has very pale yellow walls, dark green tiles in kitchen and bath, black granite counter tops and cedar trimmed windows tung oiled into a deep brown shade.

  94. 94
    gobi's sockpuppet's meatpuppet

    Portia:
    “You’d think I’d know more about color by this point in my life.”
     
    Don’t worry about it – I am meant to be a designer and interior design colours scare the hell out of me :)
     
    FossilFishy:
    We have tung oiled our floors and kitchen bench. One thing I learnt about tung oil (real tung oil – watch out for substitutes) is that it is not good around people with a nut allergy. Not sure about it if completely dry but something to keep in mind nevertheless…

  95. 95
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Ok, I’m going to go to sleep and internalize the color schemes.

    One more thing to add to the variables: I have a large, oval, oak-finish coffee table that is actually a pretty decent piece. Suggestions as to its fate are welcome.

  96. 96
    Alethea Kuiper-Belt

    FossilFishy, hello!! *waves madly*

    I am hoping to be visiting up your way in a month or so. Umm, down your way. Oh, whatever. Annnyway, if you are free round the 11/12 October, would you & family like to meet up? Maybe a pub dinner or something? Would you maybe have a recommendation on a place to stay for a solo female traveller? (Pub style fine.) My email is cajela at the gee-mailz.

  97. 97
    Alethea Kuiper-Belt

    Hi Fern. I haven’t been posting much, but I have newly taken up knitting, so have another solidarity needle-wave!

  98. 98
    opposablethumbs

    “women don’t wear trousers, they wear pants“.

    I haz a confuse. In which part of anglophonia could someone say this and actually mean it????? (e.g. I thought that in the USAnianland everybody wore “pants” (i.e. what a Brit would call trousers); I didn’t know there was anywhere that used both words to mean the same, outer, garment).

  99. 99
    carlie

    Sorry I just disappeared on everything yesterday – our power went out due to a couple of huge trees coming down on power lines.

    Fun fact: if you’re in the middle of cooking dinner and the power goes out, REMEMBER TO TURN OFF THE BURNERS. I woke up in the middle of the night and realized the power was already back on although we’d been told it would be at least until tomorrow, went around turning off lights, and found a burner was on and a pot was at a furious boil. Judging from the amount of water left, it had been at least a half hour until I woke up. If it hadn’t been such a big, full pot, and if it didn’t have a baking tray on top someone had just sat there at some point in the evening, it would have boiled dry before I woke up.

  100. 100
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    @Fern, 59:

    yeah, I could have understood “Dimple” – one *big* dimple – but plural? It leaves one wondering, for sure…

  101. 101
    carlie

    Well, this lovely Tumblr will set you… uh… straight: straight voices on gay rights.

    Oh god that blog is bad and that person who made it should feel bad.

  102. 102
    birgerjohansson

    Esteleh, Beatrice
    The Doctor has always been a kid TV show with some episodes good enough for grownup viewers. Torchwood is aimed at teenagers and young adults, sadly many involved in book/script writing think just because the main audience is younger it is an excuse to not care about quality. But -and no offence to Americans- The Doctor and Torchwood are still better than most alleged “SF” churned out by American TV aimed at grownups.

    Buut I heart Tom Baker. And I did not even see Dr Who until 1986 when cable TV with Brit channels became available in Sweden.
    This is when I discovered “Blake’s Seven” -despite the low budget it was and remains the best “space opera” TV SF ever, with Firefly a close second. I wonder if HBO will invest into SF, I have given up on the three ordinary American TV companies. “Fringe” is uneven but OK.
    “Lost” left a thousand story threads unsolved, and I like the story to have an inherent logic.
    —- — — — — — — — —

    A. Noyd
    Cats have scent glands on the head, and are programmed to enjoy rubbing themselves so the scent will mark anyone and anything they come in contact with.
    My cat likes to trap my fingers and purr as he rubs himself all over the fingers, and the rest of me. He also likes to shred my shirts while I am still wearing them. Since I have long since learned to buy cheap shirts I don’t mind.

  103. 103
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Good morning
    Hi fern and Pray
    *waves*
    So, I had a business talk this morning. I’ve got an interpreting job 4 days in October with a Spanish flamenco group *yay*

    +++
    colours
    There’s never-ever enough of them.
    By now I must have way over 100 different colours of embroidery thread and it’s still not enough. There’s so many versions of “tan*” and “grey” you wouldn’t believe it until you saw it.

    *tan
    I dislike that word. It’s like getting away with calling the crayola “flesh that got sunlight”. I prefer “beige”

    +++
    dutchgirl
    The new machine should arrive here within the next hours…
    *hugs* for the work-situation

    +++

    Anyway, I thought this one, about language learning and development, was interesting.

    Yep, it’s important for parents to know that their children are not making mistakes. They’re demonstarting that they actually learned the rules correctly. You should also never correct a child explicitly but rather do as she did and simply repeat the correct form.

  104. 104
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    @birgerjohansson

    As for logic, internal consistency, what-have-you, the all-time champ at suckage is Star Trek IV – the Wrath of Reason.

    Un/Fortunately, they flipped reason the bird [and ultimately killed it] as effectively as they did Khan.

    The movie starts out with the Enterprise crew certain that they could save the earth if they could only arrive in time.

    Unfortunately, the crew is told that it is impossible to go FTL “in solar system”, lest unexplained but terrible things happen. Thus they are forced to watch, helplessly, as earth is destroyed just out of range of their ability to affect the outcome, but well within range of their sensors.

    So what do they do about it? They decide to go FTL around the sun to go back in time. Two potential saving graces here. 1) it might be the warp field that causes the danger, and the whole point of the slingshot thing is that they are going FTL without warping space, thus enabling the travel through time, and 2) it might be that the risks are nothing compared to the known damage to the earth that the crew just witnessed.

    But when their adventure in the 80s is done, they teleport some whales to their hold and decide to leap forward in time again.

    Do they travel to another, uninhabited star system and do the slingshot trick there? No. This rules out #2 above, because the risks aren’t not eliminated in this timeline as earth still has all her people.

    But if it’s the warp field that causes the damage, then they can just travel on impulse power away from the earth and around the sun, right?

    Yeah, they could, but instead they go to warp…***in earth’s atmosphere!!!***

    And why, exactly, is it impossibly dangerous to go FTL in solar system but perfectly reasonable to go FTL in atmosphere in the same movie?. We never learn.

    But we do know that had they just followed their instincts and F*d off Starfleet protocall from the get go, no one would have died in any timeline.

    yeah. Star Trek 4 sucked splintery, cedar fenceposts.

  105. 105
    Gen, Uppity Ingrate and Ilk

    Hi everyone. I haven’t tried to post in the Lounge for yonks, but I’m at a healthier place now (even just compared to last week) where I hope to be actually able to keep up.

    Praxis
    I, too, am glad that you are sticking around.

    hi ,b>fern!

    SocioGen
    Oh no! I hope you feel tonnes better soon.

    Portial
    You do NOT want my help in decorating choices. My Betty Crocker/Martha Stewart gene is defective to the point of being almost subversive (and unintentionally hilarious sometimes).

    From the Straight Voices on Gay Rights blog:

    no matter what anyone says, straight people’s opinions do matter. in fact they can be more effective in fighting bigotry because they’re not emotionally biased

    That’s just horrible. I’m sure that there blog will contain quality stuff. Yeah. Sure.

    Giliell

    So, I had a business talk this morning. I’ve got an interpreting job 4 days in October with a Spanish flamenco group *yay*

    That’s awesome! I’m a fulltime simultaneous educational interpreter, and we interpreters are speshul speshul snowflakes. No, but for real. XD From what you say here, I’m assuming you’re looking at liason interpreting with German/Spanish language combo?

    *****

    Firefly has been on my To Watch list for ages, I just haven’t gotten to it yet. SO has and he loved it but was disappointed in the movie (Serenity) after watching it again after the series ended. We watched the movie first, before either of us had watched the series, and I loved the movie at the time.

    Also never watched the Star Trek series, other than catching a stray episode here and there, but the few I did catch were phenomenal, so that’s moved up my To Watch list.

  106. 106
    birgerjohansson

    Crip Dyke
    time travel only ever makes sense if you have a parallel universe coming into existence branching out from the time line where you enter the “upstream” time.
    That way you get no paradox. You now have two parallel worlds, one with your own “original” past, and another where you have manipulated the past. From their perspective, you did not go/will not go time travelling in, say, 2050, but you popped up in the past anyway.
    The time traveller has now become an immigrant from a parallel universe, and no paradox exists. Alas the time traveller cannot return to his or her own future, that is now a separate branch of the “world line”.
    New Scientist had a good article on the subject.

    — — — — — —
    A fun little black-and-white German TV series from 1966 is “Raumpatrouille” (Space Patrol) . They get much facts wrong, and all planetods are apparently provided with breathable atmospheres, but I think it is charming.
    I watched it as a five-year-old, and was terified by the episode when the extraterrestrials had set a planet on course to earth and apparently induced fusion turning the object into a small sun.

    But Swedish TV did not show Star Trek until ten years later.
    Both the German and American Tv episodes were of course subtitled.
    — — — — — –
    NB!!!!!!

    Annie Dookhan, Chemist, Accused Of Faking Test Results, Could Have Affected 40,000 Defendants: State http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/02/annie-dookhan_n_3855803.html
    Yeah, but “those people” are surely guilty of something anyway (sarcasm)
    – — —

    We get a better understanding of the world over time. Some belief systems quickly fail the Darwin test : “Cult leader ‘Black Jesus’ killed http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-23896401
    — — — — — — —
    An India IT company has started to hire high-functioning autistic people to check software.

  107. 107
    birgerjohansson

    Tim Robbins uses acting classes to help prisoners ‘create new truths for themselves’ http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/09/02/tim-robbins-uses-acting-classes-to-help-prisoners-create-new-truths-for-themselves/

    — — — — — —
    First estimate of total viruses in mammals http://phys.org/news/2013-09-total-viruses-mammals.html There is a minimum of 320,000 viruses in mammals awaiting discovery.

    — — — — — —
    Stick insect found to harbor antibacterial microbes in its gut http://phys.org/news/2013-09-insect-harbor-antibacterial-microbes-gut.html

    — — — — — —
    BamA protein: Cracking bacteria’s secrets may lead to new treatments http://phys.org/news/2013-09-bacteria-secrets-treatments.html#nRlv

  108. 108
    Kevin, Youhao Huo Mao

    A time has come.

    I no longer go by Kat.

    I’ve pretty much purged everything of that past.

    So, just Kevin.

    (Also changed the nym a bit, I have a Red Panda avatar, so yay for a silly name)

  109. 109
    Alethea Kuiper-Belt

    Hey Kevin, I hope this is a happy move for you. I am uncertain. *hugs* if you want them. And red pandas are super cool.

  110. 110
    Ing

    And why, exactly, is it impossibly dangerous to go FTL in solar system but perfectly reasonable to go FTL in atmosphere in the same movie?. We never learn.

    IIRC the answer is “traffic”

  111. 111
    Kevin, Youhao Huo Mao

    @Alethea:

    *hug* Thanks.

  112. 112
    The Mellow Monkey

    Random ponderings:

    In this setting I’m developing for a novel, one particular linguistic group does not have masculine/feminine pronouns. Grammatical gender is split between animate and inanimate rather than male, female and neuter. Additionally, gender performance as we would recognize it is largely absent. For the most part everyone gets lumped together under the umbrella of “people” and it’s considered rude to refer to someone by a gendered term unless explicitly told to do so. I imagine it playing out something like this when people from this culture have to interact with outsiders in a less neutral language:

    “And then they said–”
    “He. He said.”
    (horrified look) “You don’t know that.

    Being non-binary identified, none of this is a problem for me to imagine. What is a problem is determining how this system would affect other people. Whatever gender identity someone expresses is accepted without question and may change throughout their lives, but it’s also rarely referred to because it’s not seen as important to anyone but the individual. They don’t even have plural terms for woman and man, because these are seen as personal designations instead of a category–and what “man” and “woman” or other gender identities might mean could drastically differ between people since they’re not culturally reinforced. Sexual orientation is just a personal desire and gets treated with about as much importance as a preference for curly hair over straight.

    How might people with strong binary identities navigate this culture? Would it be upsetting to simply not have their gender identity matter much beyond personal address? Would it be easier for people with a strong binary identity to leave and seek out a different society? I asked my partner about this and he didn’t think it would bother him at all, because he’d be treated like all the other men and so wouldn’t be running into getting misgendered. So that’s one potential experience. I’d really be interested in hearing what other people have to say and especially what might bother them about such a society.

  113. 113
    Muse

    If you are a member of PET, please take a look at the current pinned thread for information about important changes. This is time-sensitive.

    If you have no idea what PET is, don’t worry about it. :)

  114. 114
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Hello Kevin
    You’re still you, us is still us and me in particular am just glad to have you. I’m still waiting for your book to be published.

    Gen
    *anklehugs*
    I’m not a professional interpreter, I’m a teacher in training, so i only do interpreting sometimes. Yes, the thing is Spanish-German and most of it will be social interaction and stuff. I also don’t mind being paid for sitting through a gospel/flamenco evening ;)

    ++++
    Aaaaand
    My machine is here, my machine is here, my machine is here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  115. 115
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    Whatever gender identity someone expresses is accepted without question and may change throughout their lives, but it’s also rarely referred to because it’s not seen as important to anyone but the individual. They don’t even have plural terms for woman and man, because these are seen as personal designations instead of a category–and what “man” and “woman” or other gender identities might mean could drastically differ between people since they’re not culturally reinforced. Sexual orientation is just a personal desire and gets treated with about as much importance as a preference for curly hair over straight.

    *longing whimper*

  116. 116
  117. 117
    dianne

    Good morning (afternoon, evening), thread! Dropping in to complain briefly. I moved over the weekend and between Verizon and Comcast, they’ve managed to completely screw up phone service and internet. Apparently, Comcast thinks that the previous owner of the house still has an account there. Despite his having cancelled it years ago. But because he’s already cancelled it, he can’t simply cancel it. Or something. I don’t understand that bit. And Verizon refuses to transfer service to somewhere that has service already. I’m at work with reliable internet finally. Seufz.

    OTOH, thanks to the long weekend for fake Labor Day, the house is starting to look a bit like a house and less like a box maze.

  118. 118
    birgerjohansson

    They had some serious space weapons in the 1960s. Reagan should just have paid a licence to the Germans…

    The Overkill weapon tested on an asteroid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICP1-w593NE

  119. 119
    A Surprise to Many

    Best wishes and peace for Kevin. My son thinks you are the coolest person ever.

  120. 120
    Pteryxx

    Welcome Praxis and Fern and re-welcome Kevin. *anklehugs* are on offer when I’m in a skittery mood. ;>

    The Mellow Monkey:

    For the most part everyone gets lumped together under the umbrella of “people” and it’s considered rude to refer to someone by a gendered term unless explicitly told to do so.

    *whimpers also*

    hope you don’t mind me butting in…

    How might people with strong binary identities navigate this culture? Would it be upsetting to simply not have their gender identity matter much beyond personal address? Would it be easier for people with a strong binary identity to leave and seek out a different society?

    I assume you mean people born/raised in this culture and not visitors from outside who are used to binary norms? IMHO it might depend on how strict the norms about not ascribing gender would be. I would guess some individuals would feel more strongly than others about letting their identity be known, or socializing with others of like mind, simply because that’s what humans tend to do. Then I wonder if that might be seen as shameful here.

    If not gendered pronouns, then what form does “refer to someone by a gendered term” take? Does that mean the binary constructions of man, girl, woman, boy, wife, husband and all that are right out, or only used in private as endearments? Or maybe used only between close friends?

  121. 121
    thunk: turmite city

    TMM:

    hrm. this conlang has a similar neuter/epicene pronoun system.

    http://www.xibalba.demon.co.uk/jbr/l4892/

    the rest might be a bit different tho.

  122. 122
    thunk: turmite city

    pteryxx: I think words for gender constructs will exist, but that it won’t be necessary to mark sentences as gendered. so each person would use such terms in rough proportion to how important it is for them?

    ionno much about this.

  123. 123
    The Mellow Monkey

    thunk, my language is based in part on Anishinaabemowin. What counts as animate and inanimate grammatically doesn’t always match reality.

    Pteryxx, yes I mean people born within this culture. There’s no great pressure to not ascribe gender if it’s requested; it’s only declaring it for someone else without their input that’s taboo. There are prefixes that people will apply to their names to denote traits they admire and hope to have within themselves. Traditionally, people with a strong gender identity will choose a prefix that is associated with that identity. As an example (this is not the language), let’s say there was a great leader in history who had taken the name of Cu-Art. His prefix might literally mean “hound”, but because Art was known to identify as a man those who take his prefix are identifying with him.

    Terms like woman, man, girl, boy, etc. might be used between friends as a form of endearment or expressing emotional intimacy. People are expected to not use these terms unless invited, but once they’re allowed that level of familiarity there’s nothing wrong with using it publicly.

    Terms for a number of body parts are largely neutral as well, so that most people have breasts, a phallus, gonads, etc. The exact configuration will differ, but the language doesn’t make much of a distinction between a clitoris and a penis outside of a potential reproductive capacity.

  124. 124
    dianne

    Random question for the horde: The McFall versus Shimp case established the precedent (in the US) that one person can not use another’s body or organs without their permission even if the first person would die without the use of second’s body or body parts. But since that time there have been multiple rulings that establish the right of the fetus to use the mother’s body without her permission under certain circumstances (i.e. later in pregnancy). Doesn’t that overturn the McF v S case? If abortion can be restricted because the fetus MIGHT feel pain, shouldn’t mandatory organ donation be established because people dying of leukemia certainly can feel pain and (unlike any fetus) distress and existential pain from fear of dying. Why hasn’t anyone argued this in court? Portia, Walton, etc, am I missing something?

  125. 125
    opposablethumbs

    On the remote off-chance that anyone hasn’t seen this before (I bet you all have, though), and feels like a moment of light-hearted fun:

    http://www.crispian.net/PTIR/Nonsense.html

    the Periodic Table of Irrational Nonsense

  126. 126
    Pteryxx

    TMM:

    There are prefixes that people will apply to their names to denote traits they admire and hope to have within themselves. Traditionally, people with a strong gender identity will choose a prefix that is associated with that identity.

    Hmm. Then I’m not sure I’m qualified to comment on how people with strong binary identities, specifically, might feel in that culture compared to the ones they’re exposed to through visitors, media and whatever else. Especially since I’m someone with a strong nonbinary gender identity, and I’ve worn it publicly on my nym (though encoded) for many years.

    >_>

    However there always seem to be some people, and subcultures, prone to framing things in black-and-white terms. Maybe it would depend on whether binary gender identities in this culture are more common than nonbinary? Or even if they frame gender as an axis with two poles at all, instead of as a text field.

  127. 127
    David Marjanović

    They don’t even have plural terms for woman and man, because these are seen as personal designations instead of a category–

    Uh, that’s never the only thing plurals are for, and some languages even distinguish plurals from collectives. What happens if you want to say: “Did you know? They’re both women!”

    Of course, by no means do all languages have any kind of plural in the first place. Chinese and Japanese basically don’t.

    How might people with strong binary identities navigate this culture? Would it be upsetting to simply not have their gender identity matter much beyond personal address? Would it be easier for people with a strong binary identity to leave and seek out a different society?

    On the linguistic side, it’d be like speaking Chinese or Finnish. :-| Most languages lack a distinction between “he” and “she”; among languages that lack grammatical gender for nouns, English is pretty much the only one that makes this distinction.*

    Animate/inanimate grammatical gender distinctions are common, BTW.

    * Everything is the way it is because it got that way.

  128. 128
    David Marjanović

    I’ve worn it publicly on my nym (though encoded) for many years

    …Do you mean that YXX is your karyotype…?

    Anyway, I’m not qualified to comment on what it’s like to have a strong gender identity. That’s because I don’t know if I have one! I’ve wondered if I feel only weakly male, and just feel male in total because I don’t feel female at all; but in this culture, I’m the default gender, so I hardly ever get reminders shoved into my face as to what my gender is supposed to be. :-| There are male stereotypes that I’ve always flat-out rejected, but Western culture is now liberal enough to tolerate that and to let me know that such stereotypes are merely cultural. Thus, the question simply doesn’t arise.

  129. 129
    The Mellow Monkey

    David Marjanović

    Uh, that’s never the only thing plurals are for, and some languages even distinguish plurals from collectives. What happens if you want to say: “Did you know? They’re both women!”

    Introducing a directed comment with “uh” made this really sting and come across as dismissive, FYI.

    I’m not a linguist, so I’m sure I’m describing things horribly stupidly. The language is just illustrating the culture. The point isn’t that the language is *~*so unique*~* because I know it’s not. It’s based on real languages. My point is that they wouldn’t say “they are women” at all, because they wouldn’t group a personal identity into a plural. How they use the language just reflects the culture.

    I’ll drop the question. Sorry for bothering people with my ignorance.

  130. 130
    NightShadeQueen, resident nutcase

    The Mellow Monkey

    So I’ve always wondered why the two-gendered thing was the default anyways – if I remember correctly, there are some cultures that have more than two genders.

    I’m nonbinary as well, so don’t know how I would respond in the culture you describe, but it seems really interesting.

  131. 131
    David Marjanović

    CaitieCat! Yay languages! :-) :-) :-)

    Most of my linguistics teachers were Soviet-trained Slavs of various origins (Ukrainians, Russians, a couple of Poles), and it never occurred to me to question their assertions that Latvian and Lithuanian were just offshoots of the Slavic group, rather than the other way around.

    Uh, it’s neither nor. Baltic and Slavic are sister-groups.

  132. 132
    Pteryxx

    argh… TMM, I hope you can come back and talk about YOUR CULTURE (and its language) some more, in spite of the risk of bands of roving opining linguists.

    (David M, yes that means you in this case.)

    David M: not literally my karyotype (as far as I know anyway) but as shorthand for ‘neither’ in communities that hardly know the concept of gender identity. I could always point to it and start a conversation when the topic came up. (I’m starting to see it as problematic since it conflates chromosomes and gender… similarly, my preferred pronoun used to be ‘it’ but that can cause splash damage to trans and nonbinary people…)

  133. 133
    thunk: turmite city

    arhh… TMM, I hope you can come back and talk about YOUR CULTURE (and its language) some more, in spite of the risk of bands of roving opining linguists.

    indeed, sorry if I was getting heavyhanded too. no use to spoil a good idea by shoving into a framework of “realness” (it’s fiction!) cultural frameworks are also the issues here.

  134. 134
    The Mellow Monkey

    No worries, thunk. I was just really trying to figure out the cultural side of things. How they use the language is only meant to illustrate their priorities and what’s considered polite. I avoid conlang like the plague because I have a hard enough time with language as it is. ;)

    Anyway, off of fictional matters: I tried making a lemon meringue pie today (following an Alton Brown recipe) and the filling never set. It’s just remained like a thick custard sauce instead of pie filling. Bah. I considered freezing it so it could at least be sliced, but that’ll ruin the meringue. I guess pie-soup for dessert it is!

  135. 135
    A. Noyd

    birgerjohansson (#102)

    Cats have scent glands on the head, and are programmed to enjoy rubbing themselves so the scent will mark anyone and anything they come in contact with.

    Then in this case, the instinct is getting in the way of what the cat wants. The one who does it always acts so disappointed that I don’t have magical fingers that can scratch her while she’s mashing my hand.

    ~*~*~*~*~*~

    The Mellow Monkey (#112)

    How might people with strong binary identities navigate this culture? Would it be upsetting to simply not have their gender identity matter much beyond personal address?

    I’m not sure that it would matter so much in a culture that doesn’t punish anyone for failure to conform to a strong binary identity and/or doesn’t reward one particular identity above others. Like, what would be their incentive to get upset if the importance of having a particular identity isn’t constantly shoved in their face?

    ~*~*~*~*~*~

    dianne (#124)

    If abortion can be restricted because the fetus MIGHT feel pain,

    I don’t understand this argument at all, anyway. Not even from the forced-birther perspective that ignores the humanity of the mother. The amount of pain a fetus could potentially feel during an abortion would be nothing compared to how much pain it would feel in just its first few years of life if it were allowed to be born. Let’s save the fetus from pain by… guaranteeing it will experience orders of magnitude more pain! Whee!

  136. 136
    Gen, Uppity Ingrate and Ilk

    The Mellow Monkey please don’t go! I love the idea you sketched and the possibilities connected to it. The first thing I thought of was like Azkyroth said, why can’t we have a culture like that? Because I have to wonder, if there is (functionally) no binary, would people still innately feel strongly about it in the first place? I mean, what is there then to perform (gender)?

    Anyway, second think I thought was Cheery Longbottom, the dwarf in the Watch of Terry Pratchett’s Discworld. Are you familiar with Discworld? Coz I don’t want to go into that if you’re already there or if that’s not the kind of thing you’re thinking of.

  137. 137
    The Mellow Monkey

    Gen, I’m familiar with Discworld but I don’t think I’ve made it as far as Cheery’s introduction yet.

    *checks*

    Ah, no. I haven’t read Feet of Clay yet. I really need to get through these books faster.

  138. 138
  139. 139
    Gen, Uppity Ingrate and Ilk

    Ah, no no, don’t rush such exquisite pleasure! In fact, if my memory serves, it’s in Feet of Clay that Cheery is introduced to the Watch.

  140. 140
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Yep, in Feet of Clay.

    (a stack of Discworld books tried to kill me while I was reaching for the book to check)

  141. 141
    gworroll

    I need to pick up the Discworld books again. I loved them when I was a teenager.

  142. 142
    mouthyb, Vagina McTits

    Weed Monkey: Interesting. I’ve not tried to make chipotle directly–I usually just go to the Hispanic foods aisle and grab a can adobo sauce. That has to make things much harder.

    If you have access to avocado, I’m happy to give you my ultra simple recipe for guac (as traded from a woman I worked with who comes from Mexico). Or for pico de gallo (also super simple, but tasty.)

  143. 143
    Inaji

    MM:

    How might people with strong binary identities navigate this culture? Would it be upsetting to simply not have their gender identity matter much beyond personal address? Would it be easier for people with a strong binary identity to leave and seek out a different society?

    I’d find the society you describe delightful, but I’m happily genderfluid, so it wouldn’t bother me. I do think such a society would bother at least a segment of people with strong binary identity, as that tends to lead to binding your sense of self-worth directly into your binary identity, to the point it can’t be unbound. In such cases, I can see that causing serious distress, to the point they would wish to leave to form their own society or adopt another.

    On the other side, I think there would be some binary identified people who would find your society breathtaking, welcome, and offering a previously unthought of freedom.

  144. 144
    Inaji

    Gen:

    In fact, if my memory serves, it’s in Feet of Clay that Cheery Cherie is introduced to the Watch.

    ;D

  145. 145
    Gen, Uppity Ingrate and Ilk

    In fact, if my memory serves, it’s in Feet of Clay that Cheery Cherie is introduced to the Watch.

    XD

    So I would say that reading Feet of Clay might even be considered research, The Mellow Monkey ;D. And because the dwarf’s story is intertwined with the main theme of the book, I don’t want to spoil it for you.

    On a related note: Just yesterday someone was reading that book in the staff lounge where I work, and someone else came in and went “OH! Is that the one where they [the thing that happened in the end]?” and the reader said “Uhm, yeah, I haven’t actually read this one yet, but gee thanks!” (but jokingly. The three of us often talk Pratchett and she was just delighted to discover a Watch book she hadn’t read yet.) We laughed so hard the other offices’ people probably complained about the ‘terps (interpreters) again. Heh.

  146. 146
    mouthyb, Vagina McTits

    MM: I’d find such a society an amazing breath of freedom, myself.

  147. 147
    cicely

    Welcome in, Fern!
    -
    *hugs* and encouragement for thunk. Hang in there!
    We’ll always have Tropical Storms to look forward to.
    :P
    -
    Portia: What about flat black, with twinkling LEDs in a variety of colors?
    :)
    -
    Tony:

    ::stands here awaiting the pelting of pink berries::

    How about these pink berries, right here?
    :D
    -

    straight voices on gay rights.

    O.o
    -
    Hi, Gen!
    *waving*
    -
    *hugs* for Kevin; and may you be happy in this choice.
    -

  148. 148
    Inaji

    Gen:

    So I would say that reading Feet of Clay might even be considered research, The Mellow Monkey ;D.

    Also, The Fifth Elephant, because Cherry/Cherie continues to explore gender issues in the midst of being back in home territory. Good stuff.

  149. 149
    Socio-gen, something something...

    Hello all! Hope you’re having a good [morning/afternoon/evening/night]. Still sick as a dog, so I decided to stay home from school, which kind of sucks because they’re the two classes I like going to.

    I’m sure half the sick today is from checking to see if my financial aid had been processed and finding out that the total package this semester is about $1200 less than what my award letter claimed I would get. last year’s. Lucky for me, my tuition, books, and fees were about ~$400 less than last semester (pretty much the difference between the cost of health insurance for fall and spring/summer semesters), but still ~$800 less than expected, all of which was intended for grad school application fees and GRE test fees. Awe-fucking-some.

    Loving the interior design talk! I’m always impressed by people who can “see” how colors should go together and which ones should be main color and which ones should be accents.

    A. Noyd @ 60
    Wow, that site is… wow. “Hey gay people, we’ve decided — and our opinion is important because Vulcan — that it’s totally okay for you to have the same rights as us. We’re great allies! Please give cookie?”

    Gah.

    SC @ 69
    Would you come to my apartment and be my personal stylist? :) I would love to wear more than three colors (red, black, white) and not look like I just grabbed the first top and bottoms in the closet.

    Dutchgirl:
    I hope the work situation improves for you!

    carlie
    Yikes! I did that once years ago. Unfortunately, it was the smoke alarm that woke us, thanks to the spaghetti sauce on the back burner.

    birgerjohansson @ 102

    But -and no offence to Americans- The Doctor and Torchwood are still better than most alleged “SF” churned out by American TV aimed at grownups.

    Sadly true. Especially on Syfy, the so-called sci-fi network. (Which I pronounce as “siffy” (rhymes with jiffy) cuz “sci-fi” it ain’t.)

    Giliell
    Yay! for new machine.

    Gen
    Thanks. Swimming in soup and tea has some ameliorating effect, thankfully.

    Serenity was a bit disappointing, but I think that was inevitable considering how much they had to wrap up. And Wash? I still don’t think that was necessary.

    The Mellow Monkey
    That setting sounds so interesting and wonderful. I would think that if the language differentiates between being gender-neutral in personal and impersonal communication, it wouldn’t be that difficult for people with a strong binary identity to navigate.

    In your example — (horrified look) “You don’t know that.”– what if you do know that is their preferred form? Does that change how it’s received by others? Or would it be that, in conversation where one or more parties doesn’t have direct knowledge of the preferred identity, you would only use “they”? Or that, unless that person is part of the conversation and has explicitly stated a preference, everyone would just use the neutral? (I’m thinking of a general social or business conversation rather than within one’s circle of family and friends.)

    I was also wondering, if gender and identity are so unimportant (your curly-hair example), wouldn’t that mean that clothing, activities, hair-styles, etc would all be gender-neutral? There wouldn’t be a sense of “this is what girls do and this is what boys do.” So, how would one signal their preferred identity, other than insisting on a specific pronoun?

    (I’m kind of looking at this as “what would happen if we took gender out of the English language and American culture” — which I realize may be looking at it the entirely wrong way.)

    Hello, Kevin!

    dianne
    I wonder if this is some recent problem with Comcast? A friend of mine in Georgia is having the exact same problem with her cable/internet. She can’t get service at her new place because the former tenants there still have an “open account” even though the house was vacant for almost 6 months before my friend moved in.

    gworroll
    Do read the Discworld books again! I’m slowly building my personal collection (only 12 more books to buy!) but thanks to the library I re-read them often. It’s funny how I notice little in-jokes or references only on the second or fifth or tenth re-reading.

  150. 150
    Gen, Uppity Ingrate and Ilk

    gworroll, Sociogen

    Do read the Discworld books again! I’m slowly building my personal collection (only 12 more books to buy!) but thanks to the library I re-read them often. It’s funny how I notice little in-jokes or references only on the second or fifth or tenth re-reading.

    Absolutely. Not to mention that if I read them as a teen, I would have missed a shitte tonne and even now, every time I re-read one, I notice something I’d missed before.

    Caine

    Also, The Fifth Elephant, because Cherry/Cherie continues to explore gender issues in the midst of being back in home territory. Good stuff.

    Ooh, it’s clearly been too long since I’ve read that one coz I didn’t remember that. I’ll have to remedy that straight away.

    Cicely
    Hi! *waving back* :p

  151. 151
    Inaji

    Gen:

    Ooh, it’s clearly been too long since I’ve read that one coz I didn’t remember that. I’ll have to remedy that straight away.

    There’s a realization, at the end which is terribly poignant. It has to do with being bound to a strong identity culture.

    Speaking of Discworld, for those who haven’t bothered with the books for ages, don’t forget about the new ones, Unseen Academicals and Snuff. And of course, Going Postal, Making Money and Thud.

  152. 152
    The Mellow Monkey

    Socio-gen @149

    In your example — (horrified look) “You don’t know that.”– what if you do know that is their preferred form? Does that change how it’s received by others? Or would it be that, in conversation where one or more parties doesn’t have direct knowledge of the preferred identity, you would only use “they”?

    Since they wouldn’t use she or he in their own language, this would only come up when translating/speaking another language. If they were trying to speak something like English it would feel like a strange and invasive declaration even if they knew someone’s identity. Like calling someone “the lesbian” instead of her name. They could handle it for the sake of diplomacy, sure, but it would be mentally awkward to them. Among their own people, if they knew what someone’s gender preference is it’s fine to refer to it. It would just be strange to do so in most contexts.

    I was also wondering, if gender and identity are so unimportant (your curly-hair example), wouldn’t that mean that clothing, activities, hair-styles, etc would all be gender-neutral? There wouldn’t be a sense of “this is what girls do and this is what boys do.” So, how would one signal their preferred identity, other than insisting on a specific pronoun?

    Ding ding ding! And there’s the problem I see for people with a strong gender identity. :D They could talk about it and they could add prefixes to their names that make their preferences clear, but it wouldn’t be immediately apparent the majority of the time. For some people, that would be okay. They would be understood and accepted by their loved ones. If they needed body modifications to make them comfortable those would be available, but identity and the specifics of someone’s body would be seen as two different issues. For other people, it seems like the lack of ready recognition could be agonizing.

    I think the suggestion from Caine and Pteryxx that some people would split off and form more gendered subcultures or join other societies is a good one.

  153. 153
    Rob Grigjanis

    The Mellow Monkey: Have you read Ursula K. Le Guin’s The Left Hand of Darkness? Been years since I’ve read it, but a lot of it seemed to be about the problems an Earth man has in negotiating his way through a society which is genderless/genderfluid (if those are the right terms).

  154. 154
    Socio-gen, something something...

    Gen

    Not to mention that if I read them as a teen, I would have missed a shitte tonne …

    Yep! There is so much in them beyond the actual story. One of my favorite things about reading them now is seeing how much social theory I recognize. I keep joking to my other Discworld-loving friends that one day I’m going to write a paper (tentatively, “The Sociology of Terry Pratchett”) and use the Discworld to explain concepts in sociology. I actually have two (handwritten) pages of notes already.

    My all-time favorite book is Hogfather. Talk about understanding how the world is “supposed to work” versus how it really works — and Death’s struggle to understand that, plus the idea that gods are something created by mankind’s fear of the unknown…. Love it.

    Caine
    Going Postal! Last I knew, Netflix has this, Hogfather, and The Color of Magic. Not as good as the books, but TV/movie adaptations rarely are.

    Mellow Monkey
    How someone would develop a strong identity within that culture? I would think that people who are born and raised in that culture would see their own identies as just “being” (again, like curly hair). So what cues would prompt them to say, “I am very strongly female (or male) and want this to be recognizable to others.”

    Unless it’s a world with enoough interaction with binary cultures that outside cues would exist?

    Sorry, I’m going all sociology nerd on this….

  155. 155
    cicely

    (Which I pronounce as “siffy” (rhymes with jiffy) cuz “sci-fi” it ain’t.)

    Word.
    Wrestling may be fiction, but it ain’t science fiction. Not unless those guys are wearing powered armor and rocket boots, and armed with laser lances.
    -

  156. 156
    Inaji

    Discworld again. On the front page, PZ quotes himself from an older post:

    We don’t have to revere every block of rough marble because another Michaelangelo could come along and sculpt it into something as wonderful as his David; we don’t have to treasure every scrap of canvas because the next Picasso is going to use it for a masterpiece. The value isn’t in the raw materials, but in the pattern, the skill, the art put into it. Similarly, those cells are simply the raw clay that the process and time will sculpt into something that is worth love and care.

    Which is more important, the pigments or the painting? Even worse, do you think the pigments are the painting?

    Emphasis mine. At the time that was first written (and still), that last bit reminds me of the Auditors in Thief of Time, particularly when a group of them were in the Ankh Morpork museum, reducing priceless paintings to piles of separate pigments on the ground, trying to divine where the value in the paintings lay. Ever since that post, I think of anti-choicers as Auditors.

  157. 157
    Gen, Uppity Ingrate and Ilk

    Holy shit, Caine, reading that just coming from the abortion thread is SO profound! You’re totally right!

  158. 158
    Inaji

    Socio-gen:

    My all-time favorite book is Hogfather. Talk about understanding how the world is “supposed to work” versus how it really works — and Death’s struggle to understand that, plus the idea that gods are something created by mankind’s fear of the unknown…. Love it.

    I adore Hogfather, read it every Hogswatch. My absolute fave is Reaper Man, followed by Thief of Time, followed by Witches Abroad, followed by all the Watch books. Yeah, okay, all of ‘em.

    In Hogfather, I think DEATH had a greater understanding of how things worked than Susan did, at least when it came to the serious things.

  159. 159
    Weedless Monkey

    mouthyb

    If you have access to avocado, I’m happy to give you my ultra simple recipe for guac (as traded from a woman I worked with who comes from Mexico). Or for pico de gallo (also super simple, but tasty.)

    Please!

    I bought some avocados, and they will be ripe in a day or two.

  160. 160
    The Mellow Monkey

    Socio-gen

    Unless it’s a world with enoough interaction with binary cultures that outside cues would exist?

    They’d have interaction with other cultures, including literature from binary cultures. For the most part I think the majority of people would just go along with what’s normal in their culture. There is always the possibility of some people having a stronger gender identity than others, though: people who found themselves strongly identifying with binary gendered people in foreign stories; people who would be considered trans* in our world and have thought long and hard about identity and had to work harder to find comfort than others, etc.

    But I think the vast majority of people would just accept gender as a non-issue and not really think about it. They might declare a gender identity, but there wouldn’t be much incentive to do so either. It would be the people who most frequently interact with foreigners or foreign media who would give it the greatest thought. I can see reacting to outside gender policing leading to discomfort and a stronger sense of personal identity.

  161. 161
    Weedless Monkey

    And speaking of recipes: Caine, could you please repost yours for garlic mayonnaise? I had it bookmarked, but it got lost with everything else at SciBorg.

  162. 162
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Socia-Gen
    Last year I managed to sneak Pratchett into a presentation on cultural imperialism and language.
    There’s a Pratchett-quote for everything.

    MM
    Hmmm, would there be a taboo about “gendering” somebody in that society? Or would it be more like some rather trivial piece of information?
    I’m just thinking. I have a strong gender identity, so in that world I’d probably describe myself as “Craftster, Embroiderer, Tailor, Teacher, Parent, Partner, Woman”, each one of these words describing an aspect of myself. Now, others would have other denominators and many people would share one or more, but seldomly all characteristics. Would somebody getting my profession wrong be on a different level of wrong than somebody who gets somebody’s gender identity wrong? Because if it’s really not an issue and there’s no gendering in that world then there could as well be somebody whose description is “”Craftster, Embroiderer, Tailor, Teacher, Parent, Partner, Knitter” and we could make matching low-cut embroidered silk dresses and go for pink cupcakes….
    *just rambling*

  163. 163
    Inaji

    Weed Monkey:

    And speaking of recipes: Caine, could you please repost yours for garlic mayonnaise?

    Sure.

    Garlic Mayonnaise

    1 Tablespoon white vinegar
    1 Teaspoon Dijon Mustard (or preferred mustard)
    White Pepper to taste
    1 Cup oil
    1 large Egg
    Dash sea salt
    2 to 3 Cloves Garlic (may be increased to six or more cloves for a powerful bite)

    Place vinegar, egg, mustard, salt, pepper and garlic cloves in a blender or food processor. With machine running, slowly drizzle oil in until the mayonnaise is the thickness of whipped cream. Correct seasoning if necessary. This will keep refrigerated about 2 weeks. Yields 1 and 1/4 cups.

  164. 164
    mouthyb, Vagina McTits

    Weed Monkey: Both recipes are super, super simple.

    Guac Ingredients:
    3 large ripe avocados (I usually make boat loads)
    1/2 yellow onion
    1 large, very ripe tomato
    2 fresh jalapenos
    1 lime
    garlic
    cilantro/coriander leaves
    dash of vinegary hot sauce
    salt as you like

    Guac Instructions:

    Dice onion, jalapeno and garlic into tiny, tiny pieces. Shred cilantro leaves, removing stems. Coarsely chop tomato and avocado (it’s good if everything is a little mushy). Mix in bowl. Add lime juice in a little at a time, in order to prevent it from being overpowering (I usually stop at about 2 teaspoons.) Put a dash of Tabasco or some other vinegary hot sauce on top and mix in. Salt as you like. Eat immediately, as it will not keep more than an hour or two without browning. NOTE: Sometimes, I add a little bit of cumin powder, as well, typically in order to maintain the ‘earthy’ flavor of the garlic. I recommend it, but it’s my addition to the recipe.

    Pico de Gallo Ingredients (Pico’s supposed to be raw):

    cilantro/coriander leaves
    3 large, ripe tomatoes
    lime juice
    3 jalapenos
    1 yellow onion
    dash of vinegary hot sauce
    garlic
    salt to taste

    Pico Instructions:

    Chop everything tiny, add it together and put in the refrigerator for no less than an hour, and no more than overnight. The magic window for me is between 4-6 hours in the fridge–it needs time to sit together and make yummy. This can also be made with hard fleshed fruit, FYI. Apples are quite nice like this, as is Jicama.

    The colors in Pico are for the Mexican flag (red, white and green.)

  165. 165
    The Mellow Monkey

    You might be rambling, Giliell, but you worded that in a way that I’m not sure how to answer. I’m going to have to think about that, which I consider to be a very good thing. I like working things out from angles I hadn’t considered. Makes it better than just setting myself on a soap box and warping the world to suit my whims. Thanks!

  166. 166
    Inaji

    Giliell:

    I’m just thinking. I have a strong gender identity, so in that world I’d probably describe myself as “Craftster, Embroiderer, Tailor, Teacher, Parent, Partner, Woman”, each one of these words describing an aspect of myself.

    Interesting. I’d describe myself, perhaps, like this: Artist, Photographer, Needlesmith, Storyteller, Partner, Two Spirit. (Choosing Two Spirit over bisexual.)

  167. 167
    Weedless Monkey

    Thank you, mouthyb and Caine :) –> off to the kitchen

  168. 168
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Caine
    I actually left my sexual orientation out of it because, well, how would that play out in that world? It’s a very interesting thought experiement and drives me to the limits of familiar and understandable concepts. It’s telling how much for granted we take those things, how we consider them “natural”

  169. 169
    Inaji

    Giliell:

    I actually left my sexual orientation out of it because, well, how would that play out in that world?

    I don’t know. I do include bisexual in mini-profiles on myself, so it never occurred to me. Geez. Seems to me though, that in a world a tad less obsessed with rigid binary definitions, Two Spirit, Third Spirit and One Spirit would cover things. I’m still learning all this, and I’m right stupid about it at this point.

  170. 170
    Socio-gen, something something...

    Caine:

    Ever since that post, I think of anti-choicers as Auditors.

    That it, exactly! I had been trying to figure out what that sentence reminded me of. Auditors, absolutely.

    In Hogfather, I think DEATH had a greater understanding of how things worked than Susan did, at least when it came to the serious things.

    Yes. I was thinking of his struggle with the unfairness of the toy-giving or the little matchgirl’s plight. But in the larger context, he definitely understood far more than Susan did.

    Mellow Monkey
    That makes sense! Similar to the ways in which, in rural America, LGBT youth grow up in a (mostly) conservative, heterosexist culture with more or less strict gender roles. Books, movies, music, visitors to the area, etc inform them that their society’s idea of how things are “supposed to be” is not the “only” way to be. And often leave for places where they feel they’d be more accepted.

    Sorry if I was annoying with all the questions — I was trying to build a mental map of how such a society would work.

    Giliell

    Last year I managed to sneak Pratchett into a presentation on cultural imperialism and language.
    There’s a Pratchett-quote for everything.

    Indeed. In my Qual Methods class last year, my final paper was a content analysis of the abortion debate on ProCon.org. In the presentation, I was explaining my coding (with the list of codes on the PP slide) and someone asked what the “TP” meant in the language usage section.

    “Oh,” says I. “That means ‘Terry Pratchett.’ In Maskerade he wrote: ‘And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five? A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head.’ It’s a code for excessive punctuation.”

    Luckily, my professor laughed.

  171. 171
    cicely

    Ikea instructions for Stonehenge.
    -

  172. 172
    NightShadeQueen, resident nutcase

    Caine, mouthyb

    May I transfer those recipes over to the wikia?

  173. 173
    The Mellow Monkey

    Socio-gen, not annoying at all! It’s really helpful to me. That’s why I like input and questions.

    The more I think on it, the more I like this sort of litany:

    so in that world I’d probably describe myself as “Craftster, Embroiderer, Tailor, Teacher, Parent, Partner, Woman”, each one of these words describing an aspect of myself.

    I’d describe myself, perhaps, like this: Artist, Photographer, Needlesmith, Storyteller, Partner, Two Spirit. (Choosing Two Spirit over bisexual.)

    Might I adapt the form you used for your description, Giliell? I’m still not sure how gender would play into it, but I really love the way this goes through and describes someone.

    For myself, I suppose it would be: Storyteller, Protector, Gardener, Builder, Sculptor, Partner, Fluid.

    Caine

    Seems to me though, that in a world a tad less obsessed with rigid binary definitions, Two Spirit, Third Spirit and One Spirit would cover things. I’m still learning all this, and I’m right stupid about it at this point.

    I probably will need to come up with some descriptions for people who want identify themselves by non-binary terms. I have a character who is militantly fluid and xe’s been dubbed a Lifeweaver in my notes so far because of the way xe weaves in and out of identities and creates new connections between them.

  174. 174
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    Giliell

    I actually left my sexual orientation out of it because, well, how would that play out in that world? It’s a very interesting thought experiement and drives me to the limits of familiar and understandable concepts.

    I think that concepts of sexual orientation would already look very different in that society. IME, sexual orientation is a lot fuzzier than most people really credit. Who people are attracted to/enjoy having sex with seems to be a very complex determination which includes elements of gender presentation, other cultural markers, physical state of genitalia, and at least a couple of other things that I’m having trouble defining right now, but I’ll try to work on it. The relative importance of all of these factors also varies widely between individuals. I suspect that in a society like the one MM describes, only people who were absolutely unable/unwilling to interact sexually with a certain type of genitalia would actually be considered to have a sexual orientation; everyone else just has a ‘preferred type’ as it were, and whatever it is would be considered about as significant as, say, tending to find taller people more attractive is in our society; i.e. not a defining characteristic anymore than preferring chocolate versus cookie dough ice cream.

  175. 175
    Inaji

    NightShadeQueen:

    May I transfer those recipes over to the wikia?

    You may with mine.

  176. 176
    Inaji

    MM:

    For myself, I suppose it would be: Storyteller, Protector, Gardener, Builder, Sculptor, Partner, Fluid.

    I go back and forth with myself, using Two Spirit or Fluid. I do love the word fluid, it’s almost magical to me, elemental.

  177. 177
    The Mellow Monkey

    Caine, it is lovely, isn’t it? The thing I like about Fluid is that I can be Fluid and Two Spirit or Fluid and Queer. It still fits as I flow through all the different ways I can describe myself, freeing me from the need to sum it all up easily.

  178. 178
    Inaji

    Hmm, I can’t do fluid in Lakota. The closest I can get is Kalu Ze, flow.

  179. 179
    Inaji

    MM:

    Caine, it is lovely, isn’t it?

    Oh yes.

    The thing I like about Fluid is that I can be Fluid and Two Spirit or Fluid and Queer. It still fits as I flow through all the different ways I can describe myself, freeing me from the need to sum it all up easily.

    Yes, I like that too. Magical.

  180. 180
    David Marjanović

    Only caught up from my last comment to comment 150.

    Behind paywall: Tiny frog on tiny continent is so tiny it lacks eardrums, uses mouth instead!

    as shorthand for ‘neither’ in communities that hardly know the concept of gender identity. I could always point to it and start a conversation when the topic came up.

    I see, thanks!

  181. 181
    mouthyb, Vagina McTits

    Nightshade Queen: Oh sure. I’ve got a bunch on there already, and happy to add more.

  182. 182
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Carlie:

    our power went out due to a couple of huge trees coming down on power lines.

    Eek! Glad everything’s ok now.

    Giliell

    They’re demonstarting that they actually learned the rules correctly.

    Yeah, it actually occurred to me several times during our long weekend together that she was applying the rules as she had learned them.

    Kevin:
    Hugs if you want them and I hope this is a happy thing.

    Dianne:
    I’ll have to read the decision you refer to…but my guess is that there would be some hand waving about there being no one else who could keep the fetus alive…I know it’s not logical, or compassionate, or logical, or anything, but I’m trying to think like Scalia, so bear with me *shudder* I think you’re very correct about the logical conclusions of the reasoning in that case. I wish it would be universally applied.

    Went to an expensive interior design store today, and just looked a lot. Couple new ideas and a lot of intimidation : /

  183. 183
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    @Portia:

    and voluntary assumption of risk

  184. 184
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    CD:

    Right, I was going to mention that element but neglected to. I feel like that’s not something SCOTUS would want to get into. Because then they’d have to amend their analysis that there’s a fundamental right to life for fetuses who can feel pain, and making an exception for rape negates that, because if there’s inherent value in the life of a fetus, it’s not overridden magically by the crimes of the male biological parent. What I mean is, there would be a lot of mental gymnastics to justify a rape exception, which they would logically have to do if they differentiated based on “assumption of the risk”. Or they would if they wanted to be consistent, that is. Clearly they don’t, given that a fetus currently has the constitutional right to use the organs of a pregnant person, but no other natural person has the right to use another person’s organs. Not even after they’re dead.

  185. 185
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    First, they don’t care about being consistent – at least Scalia & Alito don’t.

    Second, could you reword the following:

    they’d have to amend their analysis that there’s a fundamental right to life for fetuses who can feel pain, and making an exception for rape negates that, because if there’s inherent value in the life of a fetus, it’s not overridden magically by the crimes of the male biological parent. What I mean is, there would be a lot of mental gymnastics to justify a rape exception, which they would logically have to do if they differentiated based on “assumption of the risk”.

    Cuz it doesn’t seem that way to me at all. The raped party did not assume the risk of pregnancy, therefore has no obligation to support the fetus to viable birth.

    Am I missing something?

  186. 186
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    The raped party did not assume the risk of pregnancy, therefore has no obligation to support the fetus to viable birth.

    In case I was dramaticallly unclear (and I probably was) I 100% agree with the above. I would even say that the pregnant person doesn’t have a particular obligation regardless of whether they were raped.

    Sorry my rambling came out unclear. I was thinking down the line of: The current SCOTUS framework on abortion is that a fetus has an inherent value, that’s the basis for allowing states to ban late term abortions. There’s a contradiction in holding this view and at the same time saying there should be an exception to bans if the pregnant person is pregnant because of a rape. This is because, if you (generic you) believe that there is inherent value in the life of a fetus, you shouldn’t believe it’s acceptable to sacrifice that value, or that life, because it doesn’t change based on whether the pregnant person was raped. I think, obviously, that the pregnant person’s bodily autonomy trumps the fetus’s right to life (for lack of a better phrase, and because of the fact that a fetus is alive, but its personhood is what’s at issue) regardless of whether the pregnant person was raped or not. I hope I’m being clear that I’m in favor of radically more accessible abortion procedures. Like, it should be all over the damn place for whoever wants it, and people should have support for the children they want but don’t have the resources for, so that that alone is not a reason to seek an abortion, and it should be unstigmatized, and …well I have a lot of wishes. (I’m obviously a little worried I came off anti-choice).

    Let me know if I’ve started making sense.

  187. 187
    mouthyb, Vagina McTits

    Had to make the guac with tacos for dinner. I may not have mentioned this, but I tend to make things scorch your tastebuds hot, so the pepper proportions for my recipes may need to be adjusted so as not to dissolve someone’s stomach.

  188. 188
    A. Noyd

    The Mellow Monkey (#152)

    For other people, it seems like the lack of ready recognition could be agonizing.

    I’m still not seeing where that agony would be coming from. If those people are being accommodated in the sense that others will respect their chosen gender identifiers, then why would they need anything beyond that? I’m cis, but I don’t perform my gender too much because I’m lazy and this culture’s idea of womanhood is still tied up in too much uncomfortable, inconvenient bullshit (like shaving legs/armpits, applying make-up and wearing uncomfortable, expensive shoes). For me, womanhood should be whatever I, as a woman, do, and screw anyone who tries to shove me into a different box.

    I don’t even give a damn what gender people perceive me as unless they’re making sexist assumptions and/or treating me differently based on their perception. (For instance, when I played MMOs I’d often correct people when they assumed I was a guy because women gamers need more visibility.) Which is often, but I don’t get out much, so I spend a lot of time in not-caring mode. And, yeah, that not caring a luxury of cis privilege, but cis privilege comes from a cultural obsession with adherence to this gender binary in the first place. Without that, I wouldn’t need to have my gender or my cis-ness specially acknowledged at all.

    So, the strength of my identity arises proportionally in response to the necessity, imposed from the outside, of identifying a particular way. Less focus on binaries and more acceptance of variation within a binary would make things more comfortable for me, not less. That might not be true for all binary-compliant cis people, of course, but that’s my two cents.

    ~*~*~*~*~*~

    Giliell (#168)

    I actually left my sexual orientation out of it because, well, how would that play out in that world?

    I’m not sure how my sexual orientation plays out in this world. You’d think asexuality would be straight forward, but noooo.

    ~*~*~*~*~*~

    Caine (#178)

    Hmm, I can’t do fluid in Lakota. The closest I can get is Kalu Ze, flow.

    Are there words for the movement/consistency of other, similar things (like wind or smoke) that would work?

  189. 189
    mouthyb, Vagina McTits

    Also, pico can be made with fresh pineapple instead of tomatoes, and it is quite tasty that way.

    Especially if you can grill the pineapple first. *drool*

  190. 190
    Alethea Kuiper-Belt

    mouthyb, I have had something that was called pico de gallo, very like your recipe but with orange slices instead of tomato. Is that legit? Or a weird inspired thing by that one cafe? Because it was very delicious, and I recommend it.

  191. 191
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    I have seriously got to get a new god damn computer on which to process photos. Some of these files are taking 10 mins just to save.

  192. 192
    Inaji

    A. Noyd:

    Are there words for the movement/consistency of other, similar things (like wind or smoke) that would work?

    Mmmm, possibly. There are words for wind, and one for smoke, fire and the like, but they simply don’t capture the silvery sinuousness of liquid. I’ll keep looking. There’s gotta be something. The thing is, with Lakota, it’s a language which addresses specifics much more than the general.

  193. 193
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    Okay, so let me rephrase what you were saying so I think it’s consistent with what you were trying to say and relieves me of my confusion:

    What I mean is, there would be a lot of mental gymnastics to justify a rape exception, which they would logically have to do if they differentiated based on “assumption of the risk” while maintaining that there’s a fundamental right to life for fetuses … because [of] inherent value in the life of a fetus.

    I think I have that right now.

    You had mentioned them needing to change, and you didn’t have the “while maintaining” clause. If you were **only** differentiating based on assumption of risk, then there’s no contradiction.

    However, and I haven’t read any abortion cases more recent than Gonzales v Carhart, and I think only 2 between PP v Casey & G v C, so I can easily have missed something (plus I read a casebook version of GvC, not the full decision), but doesn’t the case law still have the value of the fetus being a value *to the state*, not to the fetus itself? Carhart was full of crap about the state’s interest in creating respect for life and the perversion of the doctor’s natural role in the birth process (because we evolved to have people in white coats remove healthy babies by C-section). I don’t remember an “inherent right to life” on the part of the fetus.

    I think the part you’re referencing was about the state asserting that allowing the legal infliction of pain on an unconsenting being (parents can consent to such **after** birth, of course) communicated disrespect for life itself and the state was permitted to form a condemnation of such disrespect through its criminal code.

    But was that Carhart? Or was that…oh, crap, I’m really not up on abortion in the states.

    Can you point me to the source on that, because that significantly changes my understanding of what’s going on in the court these days?

  194. 194
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    CD:

    Your parsing is correct, thanks for helping me out to say what I mean. Skipping key phrases or concepts or shortcutting my writing has always been a problem for me. I haaaaaaaated all that wriitng in law school where you essentially end up with a paragraph that consists of four sentences that say virtually the same thing.

    To your question: I think I might be wrong, and your memory of the reasoning is correct. You have read Casey much more recently than I have, so I would trust your memory and analysis (still want help with finals? ;) ) I will look it up though, and see if I’ve got any scraps of reality in my remembrance of the nuances of the legal principles at work.

  195. 195
    mouthyb, Vagina McTits

    Apropos of nothing, but since food is one of my areas of obsession, the recipe for last night’s beef stew:

    Stew ingredients:

    1.5 lbs potatoes (I like the little ones, gold or red, but any will do. If bakin’ potatoes, skin them)
    .75 lbs carrots
    1 large yellow onion
    the back half of a good bottle of red wine (leftover wine is just fine) or bottle of dark beer
    a package of stew beef (or beef in chunks, or pork or chicken or whatever)
    3 T. butter
    1 cup of flour
    3 T. garlic
    1 large parsnip or turnip (or not, if yah hates em)
    parsley
    2 cans of broth (or 3 cups of homemade broth, if you’re obsessive)
    rib of celery (or not)

    Stew seasonings:
    1 T. cocoa powder
    sage
    thyme
    bay leaf
    salt
    pepper
    nutmeg

    Instructions:

    Chop veggies and/or meat. Melt butter over low heat in stew pot and add onions. While those are carmelizing, dredge meat in flour and set aside. When the onions are translucent (don’t hurt them along, let them develop slowly), add the meat. Stirring constantly, cook until flour and butter have made a paste in the bottom of the pan and the flour is no longer white. When it starts to stick heavily and the roux is starting to be golden, dump the booze over it. Add the broth, potatoes, carrots, parsnip, celery and seasonings (I tend to season more heavily on sage and thyme than the other seasonings, with the exception of cocoa powder.) Turn up to between low and medium and leave alone, except for occasional poking, for at least two hours (but at four hours, it becomes something of a religious experience. The onions melt into the soup, and if you’re using garlic you sliced up yourself, it tries very hard to melt, too.) Serve with a little bit of chopped parsley on top.

    I’ve added corn before, or peas at the very last minute (no mushy peas!) Tomatoes are good here–really most of the garden is good. The essential ingredients are the roux, the booze and the chocolate powder.

  196. 196
    mouthyb, Vagina McTits

    Alethea: Sure. All those types of recipes employ citrus, usually salty citrus (eg limes, but I’ve seen things with lemon in them). There used to be a place in town that made an entire bar of seasonal salsas and pico, made of anything but bananas–it was damn good.

    The green mango pico, in particular, was spectacular. So was the pineapple pico. Pork seems to love those two flavors.

  197. 197
    The Mellow Monkey

    A. Noyd

    I’m still not seeing where that agony would be coming from. If those people are being accommodated in the sense that others will respect their chosen gender identifiers, then why would they need anything beyond that?

    Yeah, and I think this would probably work for the vast majority of people in this imaginary culture of mine. My concern about people with strong gender identities who might be unhappy with the culture was largely about those who suffer from some form of gender dysphoria that wouldn’t be alleviated by gender neutrality. My partner is FtM and thought it sounded great, but he’s only one person and can only speak for his own experience.

    Caine

    There are words for wind, and one for smoke, fire and the like, but they simply don’t capture the silvery sinuousness of liquid. I’ll keep looking. There’s gotta be something. The thing is, with Lakota, it’s a language which addresses specifics much more than the general.

    In Ojibwe, there is nimamaajii, which literally means “I am in motion/I agitate.” I find it to be a good replacement for fluid. Does Lakota have anything along those lines?

  198. 198
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    CD: I have brushed up, and I’m embarrassed about my imprecise use of language which resulted in my invocation of a totally different concept than the one I was thinking of. (State interest vs. inherent value). I would still argue that it would be inconsistent for the court to maintain that there’s a compelling state interest in the fetus’ life and that it can override a person’s autonomy when they haven’t been raped, but not if they have. Of course you’re right that they don’t care about consistency. Well, not all of them anyway.

    See; John Roberts ruling one day that states can be forced to participate in Obamacare* and the next that they must not be held to federal standards for voting procedures if they have transgressed in the past.

    *warning! warning! dramatic oversimplification!

  199. 199
    Socio-gen, something something...

    TMM
    Glad it wasn’t annoying. It sounds like a fascinating world and I had a fun time trying to imagine it and see what the ripple effects might be.

    mouthyb
    Nom nom nom. That sounds like the perfect thing to make for a study weekend, when I want to have real food but don’t have time to make several meals. I can make enough to graze on all weekend long. (Second-day stew is soooo good.)

  200. 200
    mouthyb, Vagina McTits

    Socio-gen: Oh yeah. Stew just gets better over time. I served it yesterday with a cheap ass loaf of french bread from the grocery store, not that you have to, but it’s a good grazing accessory.

  201. 201
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    I am weird.
    I loooooove salsa. The restaurant I am at makes the best salsa I have ever had. It is pureed more than most versions, and has a good smount of lime, garlic and cilantro. Plus a perfect amount of heat.
    Oh, I do not like tomatoes or pico de gallo. Texture thing. Hence the love of pureed salsa (and my weirdness).
    Almost every dish we have has pico on it…ugh.

  202. 202
    gobi's sockpuppet's meatpuppet

    Hello lounge!
    mouthyb and Socio-gen: second day stew from the slowcooker experiment is in the fridge :)
    Went for a pepper steak stew with beetroot, sweet potato, and pumpkin (because I forgot to get carrots). Mmmmmm
     
    Portia: took a peek at your ‘diamond in the rough’ table drawer thing. Very sweet. I am curious about the wood underneath that finish…

  203. 203
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    GSM:

    Oh…that stew…sounds amazing. I just got really hungry.

    Thanks! I was enamored of it the moment I saw it. I got the basket to yesterday to replace the missing drawer. (Yeah, the Hobby Lobby boycott is not going well…)

  204. 204
    morgan ?! epitheting a metaphor

    Portia,
    Not that you asked, but here is what I’d do with that side table. I’d dump the two drawers and get two more baskets. I’d completely strip the wood then STAIN it to coordinate with the blue cloth on the baskets and give it a final coat of verathane, just for shine.

    Just my .02

  205. 205
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    morgan:

    Thanks for the input! I post here for maximum input. I’ve never worked with stain before, but something so small seems like the best place to start. I like the idea of three baskets. The basket fabric is actually black and white, and the basket is black. So would a really dark stain be advisable? Dark brown is one of my colors. I can also just get a different set of baskets, I kept the receipt and Hobby Lobby has a wide variety that are the right shape/size.

  206. 206
  207. 207
    morgan ?! epitheting a metaphor

    Portia,
    Can you post the link to the pic of the table again, please?

  208. 208
  209. 209
    morgan ?! epitheting a metaphor

    Portia,
    Minwax! Precisely and exactly. It is water based and uber easy to use. You will love it.

  210. 210
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    I took a picture of the back but my phone didn’t save it.

    I should have a new phone tomorrow though! :)

  211. 211
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Easy to use! Water based! Hooray!

    Maybe I’ll stain my ginormo coffee table, too.

  212. 212
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    @Portia:

    Okay, glad I wasn’t too far off in my understanding. I was really going nuts trying to remember “inherent value”. But, of course, I haven’t read all the cases and some of them were casebook-versions, so it was possible.

    As for help in finals, you made things much better last spring, even when you didn’t clarify specific concepts all that much, just by being someone who told me I could do it…and who was in a position to know.

    So, yeah, I’ll be looking for your help again in a couple months, Casey & Carhart notwithstanding.

  213. 213
    gobi's sockpuppet's meatpuppet

    Portia: I am wondering if a lot of the charm of the unit actually comes from the drawer handles. Will be interesting to get SC’s opinion.

  214. 214
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    I’ll be happy to help however I can.

  215. 215
    morgan ?! epitheting a metaphor

    Portia,
    That basket sure looks dark blue on my screen. That’s the problem with trying to do color digitally. Anyway, yes, you could do the dark brown stain, just make sure the wood grain shows through. If possible, I’d get the baskets in dark brown also but with a coordinating color of fabric that picks up your other accent colors. Just a thought. Looks like a fun project.

  216. 216
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    Water based & easy to use? That’s what I look for in certain fluids…but I don’t think I’ll be buying minwax anyway.

  217. 217
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    Will be interesting to get SC’s opinion.

    There’s only one way to read this while in law school – sorry, Salty Current.

  218. 218
    gobi's sockpuppet's meatpuppet

    Portia: if you go for the three baskets have a think about your colour palette. Do you want the baskets to be a part of the unit or a part of the room? Not sure if I am being clear here… :(

  219. 219
    mouthyb, Vagina McTits

    gobi: Is there anything sweet potato doesn’t make awesome? I think I’ll have to try to make a soup with some soonish. Bet I can combine it with black beans.

  220. 220
    gobi's sockpuppet's meatpuppet

    mouthyb: sweet potato… Agreed! But cocoa powder! I have never tried that. In fact I think I will try the whole recipe.
    I keep doing a mental translation: cilantro = coriander. lol.
     
    On an unrelated note… The puppetmistress asked if I could sew the buttons back on one of her tops. Eleven buttons! No top on this planet needs eleven buttons.

  221. 221
    Inaji

    MM:

    In Ojibwe, there is nimamaajii, which literally means “I am in motion/I agitate.” I find it to be a good replacement for fluid. Does Lakota have anything along those lines?

    Mmmm, sort of. There’s Škaŋškaŋ – to move about, stir, be in motion, and Ičhičahiya – mingle, stir up. I think what I like best is a form of slippery, Šlušluta – to be slippery, lubricated; polished, smooth, shining.

  222. 222
    mouthyb, Vagina McTits

    gobi: Cocoa powder (the unsweetened kind) is a traditional seasoning in several dishes in Mexico, not the least of which is the sexy mole. It’s good with Texas chili, red chilies, beef, and anything with a smoky and/or rich palate (like, say, things with large amounts of dark booze in them). It doesn’t taste like chocolate, it tastes like sexy mouth silk. I have particular tastes, though, so feel free to not put as much as I recommend, just give it about ten minutes between adding some cocoa powder and tasting, so it has time to ‘sink in.’

  223. 223
    The Mellow Monkey

    Caine

    I think what I like best is a form of slippery, Šlušluta – to be slippery, lubricated; polished, smooth, shining.

    Oh, that’s nice. It does give a good feel for fluidity.

  224. 224
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    MM:
    I’m seconding the recommendation for The Left Hand of Darkness.

    The way that they handle the “X is male!” comment is that they have a triad of terms:
    (1) Generic “person.” Neuter. Used in everyday.
    (2) Male-in-the-act-of-reproducing. Sexually charged, considered graphic.
    (3) Female-in-the-act-of-reproducing. Sexually charged, considered graphic.

    Which means that their society treats a comment about someone’s sex like we would consider blunt commentary on the nature of someone’s genitals: best reserved for privacy amongst intimates.

  225. 225
    CaitieCat, getaway driver

    Caine, is there a phonetic difference between S-check and s-check, or is that just orthography and they’re pronounced the same?

    In fact, is there a good resource online for the orthography of Lakota? Then I wouldn’t be on and on asking about the other glyphs, which, y’know, if I’m being rude, please know I’m not meaning it, just a huge language geek, always excited to know people who know other languages SQUEE!

    *goes to Shep about some*

    (trying to run ME3 on “Insanity” level, to get the last trophy to have the set!)

  226. 226
    CaitieCat, getaway driver

    Esteleth: Which means that their society treats a comment about someone’s sex like we would consider blunt commentary on the nature of someone’s genitals: best reserved for privacy amongst intimates.

    If I might gently point out, “someone” here only applies if the person whose genitals are up for discussion is cis. We trans* folk get questions directly about this sort of thing all the time, from random strangers to TV anchors. Just a small consciousness-raising moment. :)

  227. 227
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    I am wondering if a lot of the charm of the unit actually comes from the drawer handles. Will be interesting to get SC’s opinion.

    Good point…I was thinking of replacing the handles anyway. Good thoughts to think about the effect of that.

    morgan: Yeah, good idea. It would be really easy for me to use fabric that I use elsewhere in the room to make a basket liner to tie things together.

    GSM: Hmmm I think I see what you mean, and more things to think about :)

    CD: Your alternate interpretations of comments are making me laugh.

  228. 228
    Inaji

    CaitieCat:

    Caine, is there a phonetic difference between S-check and s-check, or is that just orthography and they’re pronounced the same?

    Same pronunciation, sh.

    In fact, is there a good resource online for the orthography of Lakota? Then I wouldn’t be on and on asking about the other glyphs, which, y’know, if I’m being rude, please know I’m not meaning it, just a huge language geek, always excited to know people who know other languages SQUEE!

    Yup, LLC has an excellent one: http://www.lakhota.org/ALPHABET/alphabet.htm

  229. 229
    Inaji

    MM:

    Oh, that’s nice. It does give a good feel for fluidity.

    *Phew* That was an interesting challenge. Oh, just because, Itunk Tanka is rat. (Ee doonk dahn kah). :D

  230. 230
    CaitieCat, getaway driver

    Ahhh, thank you!! I’m pretty sure I can make all of those. I just tried. The stop-followed-by-the-glottals seem tricky, but I’m familiar with glottals from my native Estuary English (UK variety from around the Thames Estuary), and my dad was a proper Cockney, so I’ve heard glottals all my life – I think I could do all of these.

    Thanks! :)

  231. 231
    Inaji

    CaitieCat, you’re welcome! Most people have the most trouble with the nasal N (ŋ).

  232. 232
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    CaitieCat:
    Damn. That is no one else’s business.

    Thinking about the subject of genitalia questions, I am reminded of what my father said when I came out to my parents. It boiled down to ‘anal sex hurts’. Looking back, all I can think of that incredibly personal question which was none of his business is:
    A- none of your business
    B- some people find it fun
    C- no one is asking you to put anything up your butt!

    Now that I have thought about this, I just realized my dad automatically assumed I would be in the bottom role rather than as a top (to say nothing of flip flopping or not liking anal sex).

    Purely speculative musing here based on trying to understand the thought process involved (or at least the underlying assumptions):
    There seems to be some sexist, toxic masulinity in that line of thinking. It is almost saying “To be gay, a guy gets fucked”. That is the role society says is for women. Given that many people see gay men as “not men” or “girly men” the implication is that a gay man is not a real man. *Plus* a gay man is like a woman. Which is not good. Men should be men. Women should be women. In this narrow view, sexuality is binary, two genders and *only* two genders exist, and those rigid gender roles are the only acceptable ones.
    [End of speculation]
    I’d add to that that my father’s personlization of gay sex is bizarre. When I think of my friends or family I do not think of their sex lives and I certainly do not imagine myself engaged in the sexual activities my family members or friends engage in.

  233. 233
    CaitieCat, getaway driver

    No, that one’s straightforward for a French speaker, as well as a lot of de facto nasal vowels in Japanese, so that’s no problem at all. But the paired stops (t’, for instance), that seems tricky. English has a pretty strong base rule about not putting stops together – well, strong for English; as usual, it applies a lot of the time, not all the time: “worked”, for instance, ends in (phonetically-ish, i’m not looking up IPA codes when I’ve been at the greenery) “-kt”. But word-initial, I can’t think of a word in English that can start with two stops.

    In actual production, I’d probably find it hard to make a clear distinction between the aspirated and unaspirated variants of things; this was a problem when I was studying Sanskrit, so I’m thinking it would be again here, both in production and recognition (these, for onlookers who checked the page, are the ones where the example starts with s-, like ‘skip’; if you want to test this, try saying the words “skip” and “kip” while holding your palm in front of your mouth a few cm away. You should, if you’re a native speaker of English, have a pronounced breath-sensation when you say the k in kip, but not in skip, because English deaspirates word-initially only when the stop is preceded by s. Some people find it also pops when they lisp it as “thtop”, showing that the “s” is the only deaspirator we allow.

    This has been your linguistics geek moment of the AROTE. Any errors are the product of this fine…um…product of the producers of the product – who are kinda hush-hush because, y’know, puritan stuff and Big Brother – and in no way the product of my fine education. Also, render unto Tpyuos or see thou the multitudinousitastical errors of thy ways!

  234. 234
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    Caine

    Oh, just because, Itunk Tanka is rat. (Ee doonk dahn kah). :D

    Is that related to the word for bison? The site you linked to says that’s thanthanka (I don’t know how to make the right symbols, and I can’t copy/paste from there), which seems to share a suffix(maybe, I’m not sure if that’s the correct term, or even if I’ve correctly identified a part of the word).

    Most people have the most trouble with the nasal N (ŋ).

    That one’s dead easy, but I took French all through childhood. The sound that’s rendered p[h with an inverted circumflex accent] give me a bit of trouble, though. Incidentally, do you happen to have a reference for how to type the right symbols?

  235. 235
    The Mellow Monkey

    Caine

    Oh, just because, Itunk Tanka is rat. (Ee doonk dahn kah). :D

    Oooh, that’s fun to say. Ojibwe has the glorious waawaabiganoojiinh (something like…wah wah bigga no’o jeenh) which is used for both mouse and rat.

  236. 236
    Socio-gen, something something...

    mouthyb
    French bread sounds perfect! Or the crusty Italian that the local store carries.

    GSM
    Ohhh, I’ve never thought of using pumpkin in a stew… I have all KINDS of ideas now!

    Portia
    *gasp* Nooooo! Not Hobby Lobby! :)

    Sadly, or rather, luckily for you, I have no advice or suggestions for your room. Any I might make will probably make SC and other design people cry and huddle in their beds for days.

  237. 237
    gobi's sockpuppet's meatpuppet

    I can’t think of a word in English that can start with two stops.

    P-Terodactyl?
    ( ducks and runs :) )

  238. 238
    Pteryxx

    P-Terodactyl?
    ( ducks and runs :) )

    *glare*

  239. 239
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    *gasp* Nooooo! Not Hobby Lobby! :)

    Real text convo with my cousin earlier:
    Her: I’m at that place we’re boycotting. They’re playing instrumental “Jesus Loves Me.”
    Me: Self righteous assholes. (I went yesterday…)

    :)

  240. 240
    gobi's sockpuppet's meatpuppet

    Sorry :)
    Going slightly crazy here sewing buttons – can’t for the life of me see how people find this relaxing.

  241. 241
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    I’d add to that that my father’s personlization of gay sex is bizarre. When I think of my friends or family I do not think of their sex lives and I certainly do not imagine myself engaged in the sexual activities my family members or friends engage in.

    In trying to explain my experience to my father when I was coming out, I asked him what he would do if he woke up the next morning, in his own bed, and his mind and memories hadn’t changed but his body was female.

    I was expecting him to say that he would feel uncomfortable with a mind that is still oriented one way and a body another and that he would take steps to rectify that somehow (therapy, magic sex-change, whatever)

    Nope.

    He thought silently for a time. He sighed. Then my married, monogamous father relates his first step after waking up next to his wife in a modified body:

    Well, I guess I’d have to start sleeping with men.

    Seriously? What’s stopping you isn’t the desire to honor a promise or the practical consequences of sleeping with other people in an ostensibly monogamous relationship? The one thing stopping you is that you have a peepee too?

    Cuz seriously, dad, I know guys who find dark-haired, 6′ tall, well-off doctors in their early 40s to be terrific catches and quite worth the time it takes to boink.

    My dad: the only person in the world who is only prevented from making immoral choices by the existence of his penis.

  242. 242
    Inaji

    Dalillama, a buffalo bull is Tatanka, a buffalo cow is Pte.

    Tanka (Tȟaŋka) means:

    1. to be large, big, great in any way, significant
    2. to be adult, grown up, mature

  243. 243
    Inaji

    Dalillama:

    Incidentally, do you happen to have a reference for how to type the right symbols?

    Missed this. I haz a Lakota language keyboard. See here: http://www.lakhota.org/html/Keyboard.html Pretty sure you can get a Lakota language font package from all over the place, though.

  244. 244
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    Caine
    So would ‘mouse’ be ‘ Itunk’?

  245. 245
    Inaji

    MM:

    Ojibwe has the glorious waawaabiganoojiinh (something like…wah wah bigga no’o jeenh) which is used for both mouse and rat.

    Hee. I love Ojibwe, it’s like Old Irish, seriously over-spelled at every opportunity. :D

  246. 246
    Inaji

    Dalillama:

    So would ‘mouse’ be ‘ Itunk’?

    No. Itunkala (Itȟúŋkala) is mouse.

  247. 247
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    CaitieCat:

    If I might gently point out, “someone” here only applies if the person whose genitals are up for discussion is cis. We trans* folk get questions directly about this sort of thing all the time, from random strangers to TV anchors.

    *sigh*

    Fucking cis bigots. >:(

    Blunt commentary on someone’s genitals should be left for private, consensual times with intimates.

  248. 248
    yazikus

    Hey Loungers,
    On the topic of language, I have a problem I’d like to crowd-source. My browser, chrome, and google always default to Portuguese, and English is not available when I try to select the language (it alone is greyed out). I should be clever and just pick up the portuguese, but it would be nice to not always have to use the translate function on my search results. Any ideas?
    -
    Caine,
    I love Fluid as well. I’ve enjoyed following your conversation today. I liked the self descriptions as well, and am working on my own. Surprisingly tricky.

  249. 249
    Inaji

    Yazikus:

    Surprisingly tricky.

    Aye, it is.

  250. 250
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    Caine

    No. Itunkala (Itȟúŋkala) is mouse.

    Thank you. I was guessing based on the assumption that the ‘tȟaŋka’ suffix was applied to distinguish by size, so I just removed the modifier. Shows how far guessing takes you, I suppose.

  251. 251
    yazikus

    Languages. As a mother-tongue English speaker, I grew up around a number of languages. Often I was a minority (in my English speaking). I took nine or so years of french, to limited success. The year I was home-schooled I attempted to teach myself Latin. My favorite language to learn was Finnish. It was so amazing. I didn’t say anything in Finnish until I was sure I could do it without being detected as a non-speaker. I loved that once you knew how to pronounce the alphabet, and where to accent, you could read anything properly. Sadly, I only had one formal year, and the three that I picked it up from my friends. I remember after a few months back in the states (where everyone thought I was an exchange student due to my ‘weird’ accent), I slipped on the ice and fell, “Voi vittu, jumalauta!!” and some people sort of stopped and stared. And I wondered about that first instinct to swear, why it came out in Finnish.
    -
    I spent many years of my youth trying to rid any american-ness from my accent. It was almost like a game. How many other english speaking countries could people guess where I was from? I think I had it down to an art form.
    -
    I think I’ve recounted before, I had a year or two in high school when I thought Aluminum and Aluminium were two different elements. (Product of sending a kid to too many schools in too many countries in too short of a time!).
    -
    I asked a co-worker the other day for the rubbish bin, and they *blinked*, “The what?”. And I sighed. I’ll have to work on that assimilating a bit more I guess.

  252. 252
    Inaji

    Dalillama:

    I was guessing based on the assumption that the ‘tȟaŋka’ suffix was applied to distinguish by size, so I just removed the modifier.

    It’s a reasonable guess, but most modifier rules aren’t applicable to Lakota. It’s a weird language.

  253. 253
    Inaji

    Uh, to clarify a bit, (maybe), saying Itunk Tanka is more like saying rat = big mouse. Yeah, that probably doesn’t help.

  254. 254
    Inaji

    Yazikus:

    I asked a co-worker the other day for the rubbish bin, and they *blinked*, “The what?”. And I sighed.

    Heh. Try pronouncing garage the non-American way (like carriage), and you’ll see a host of blank faces staring at you like you landed from Alpha Ceti V or something.

  255. 255
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    Caine

    Uh, to clarify a bit, (maybe), saying Itunk Tanka is more like saying rat = big mouse. Yeah, that probably doesn’t help.

    Actually it does. That was indeed what I was guessing, I just didn’t realize that ‘mouse’ was abbreviated in that construction.
    yazikus

    I spent many years of my youth trying to rid any american-ness from my accent. It was almost like a game. How many other english speaking countries could people guess where I was from?

    I don’t actually try, but hardly anyone guesses that I’m an American from my accent, and when they do it’s always New England (which is more or less correct in that my dad is from upstate New York and mom spent a great deal of time in Pennsylvania and New York), although I personally grew up on the West Coast. I’ve had guesses of every nation of Great Britain except Cornwall, plus Australia and NZ (although those people were displaying great parochialism; I sound nothing like an Australian, nor yet a New Zealnader).

  256. 256
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Re: accents

    Trufax true story time:

    My father (born in North Carolina) lived for several years as a child in Lahore, Pakistan. While there, he attended a local grammar school where his classmates were a cross-section of local children (aside: sometimes he needles his Fox News-watching co-workers by casually saying he attended a madrassa as a child).

    Then the family moved back to the US, specifically to northern Ohio. He was promptly enrolled in the local public school, where his teacher promptly had a conniption fit over a red-haired boy with an extremely WASPish name speaking BritEng with a South Asian accent whilst occasionally lapsing into Urdu.

    To this teacher, such a combination did not compute. Nor did the additional facts that his parents, upon being met, were revealed to speak (1) broad non-rhotic Downeastern and (2) clipped Chicago.

  257. 257
    yazikus

    Caine

    Heh. Try pronouncing garage the non-American way (like carriage), and you’ll see a host of blank faces staring at you like you landed from Alpha Ceti V or something.

    I know, right? I’m still getting used to the colloquialisms here, and trying my best to catch on. 8 years in. Still trying to catch up. North Dakota was my first US home after 8 or so years abroad, and the accents were to delightful to me. I really enjoyed the cadence, and prolonged vowel usage (not proper terms, I know), that I observed.
    Dalillama

    although I personally grew up on the West Coast.

    I could be biased, but I’ve always felt like the PNW accent is the most neutral of american accents. Perhaps your upbringing might have softened the judgement? I really enjoyed those infographic/linguistic maps of american language that were brought up a while back.

  258. 258
    Socio-gen, something something...

    Try pronouncing garage the non-American way (like carriage), and you’ll see a host of blank faces staring at you like you landed from Alpha Ceti V or something.

    It’s been made clear to me that Minnesotans hear either what they call an “East” accent or a slight southern accent when I speak, while Pennsylvanians hear a “Fargo” (the movie) accent. (And I can’t hear any difference in the way I pronounce words.) My general northeastern-PA dialect (it’s an official one!) seems to confuse people here in Fargo-Moorhead on a regular basis. For example:

    Elementary is pronounced as “EL-ah-men-TREE” not “EL-ah-men-TAIRY.”
    “Couplethree” is a word meaning “two or three but no more.”
    “Don” and “dawn” are pronounced differently as are “cot” and “caught.”
    Roads get “slippy” when there’s ice on them.

    We also have certain words/phrases picked up from Pennsylvania Dutch, like “Outen [turn off] the lights” and “yah, well” to mean “whatever/doesn’t matter.”

  259. 259
    yazikus

    Esteleth

    He was promptly enrolled in the local public school, where his teacher promptly had a conniption fit over a red-haired boy with an extremely WASPish name speaking BritEng with a South Asian accent whilst occasionally lapsing into Urdu.

    Not nearly as contrary, but I remember when I finally got to France, and was speaking with people, they informed me I was speaking french with a british accent. Due to my british french teachers, obvs.
    [Why does spell check want to capitalize british, but not french?]

  260. 260
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    It’s been made clear to me that Minnesotans hear either what they call an “East” accent or a slight southern accent when I speak, while Pennsylvanians hear a “Fargo” (the movie) accent. (And I can’t hear any difference in the way I pronounce words.) My general northeastern-PA dialect (it’s an official one!) seems to confuse people here in Fargo-Moorhead on a regular basis.

    Oh yes! Midwesterners round here called my accent the “Sarah Palin” because apparently Fargo/Michigan/Minnesota/Alaska sound similar to people not from those places. In Des Moines, they think I’m a Chicagoan.* In Chicago, they think I’m Southern.

    *This one made me laugh in particular. Only in cow country could I be thought of as metropolitan in any sense.

    **My mom insists I say Chicago like a Chicagoan ^_^ No regrets.

  261. 261
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    General question for the legal sorts:
    As a board member of a 501c(3), how liable am I personally on behalf of the organization? I ask because we run a lending library for assorted tools, many of which offer the possibility of injury, and hence lawsuit, despite the disclaimer all borrowers sign. The insurance extended to us by our parent organization includes both general insurance and specific insurance for the board members, and it’s not clear to me what situation the latter insurance covers.

  262. 262
    eigenperson

    So, I just watched this video (note: don’t bother watching) of John Kerry, who I would have voted for in 2004 had I been old enough, saying that only someone who had their hand stuck firmly in the sand could deny the massive reams of absolutely certain evidence (NOT AT ALL like Iraq, we promise, for realz) proving beyond a reasonable doubt that Assad launched the chemical attack…. and then he didn’t reveal very much actual evidence.

    Apparently the smoking gun is that Syrian troops were ordered to prepare for the attack and wear gas masks. Well, last year, the US government ordered me to prepare for Hurricane Sandy and stockpile emergency supplies. By Kerry’s logic, I guess that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the US government launched Hurricane Sandy.

    The warmongering machine in this country really scares me sometimes.

  263. 263
  264. 264
    eigenperson

    I meant head in the sand, but whatever. Apparently I’ve got something stuck in the sand, so it might as well be a more comfortable body part.

  265. 265
    Socio-gen, something something...

    Portia: There are a lot of shared sounds between Palin’s accent and the one I hear most often around here, at least to my ear. My North Dakotan friends use “you betcha” a lot, where other places might say “oh, certainly” or (in PA) “for sure.”

  266. 266
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    Portia
    Thank you. It appears from that that it would only come down to personal liability in the case of drastic malfeasance re: record keeping or finances? Many of the categories don’t seem to apply, since we have neither shareholders, dividends or competitors.

  267. 267
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Socio-gen:

    ha, I say “for sure” a lot. I think my “Oh man” in person sounds Palinesque and my unserious habit of using not-curse-words like gosh and heck.

    Funny that people say “yoobetcha” up there. :) How appropriate for their accents.

  268. 268
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Dalillama:

    Yes, you’d have to be engaging in some pretty bad faith behavior to be found liable. Fraud, etc.

  269. 269
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    Portia
    Thank you. I figured it was something like that, but the board members who actually have assets got all twitchy about the possibility of lawsuit etc.

  270. 270
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    eigenperson:

    Given that Syria doesn’t have a lot of oil, to my understanding, I can’t even think of a cynical reason for this drumbeat of war. But then, there are a lot of things i don’t get.

  271. 271
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    twitchy about the possibility of lawsuit

    Hey, that’s my every waking moment, so I get that sentiment.

  272. 272
    Socio-gen, something something...

    Some North Dakotans I’ve met have a very strong accent, very similar to the one in Fargo. But most of the people I’m around sound more like the lost Mrs. Minivan in Cars. It’s there, but more slight.

    I was thinking about what you said, about different areas placing your accent differently. That’s me as well. No matter where I am, someone will ask, “So where are you from?” It even happens with people I don’t know back home anymore.

  273. 273
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Socio-gen:

    That’s funny that people who ostensibly have the same dialectical origins you do ask where you’re from.

    Sometimes, it’s all a little sad to me, too. I get all irrationally existential about it, like “Where do I belong?” and then I think about it for a second and I laugh at myself.

  274. 274
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    Portia

    Given that Syria doesn’t have a lot of oil, to my understanding, I can’t even think of a cynical reason for this drumbeat of war.

    Oh, there’s loads of them: fat payoffs to private contractors who do all the warzone tasks the military used to do in-house at lower cost, fat payouts to Stateside contractors making materiel to be sent overseas and blown up, red propaganda meat to throw to the bigot and xenophobe contingent, who are a depressingly large chunk of the electorate, a reason to never cut the Pentagon budget, and just plain malevolent joy in destruction. Probably others that I’m missing too.

  275. 275
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Thanks, Dalillama.

    Having read about half of Drift by Rachel Maddow, I should have thought of all those cynical, realistic, reasons.

  276. 276
    eigenperson

    Portia:

    Given that Syria doesn’t have a lot of oil, to my understanding, I can’t even think of a cynical reason for this drumbeat of war. But then, there are a lot of things i don’t get.

    I never really believed the “we invaded Iraq for oil” idea anyway. I think we invaded Iraq because Saddam Hussein was a Bad Guy, and the magnificently arrogant neoconservatives thought that it would be a piece of cake for the Good Guys to win (especially with the help of a certain sky fairy). And I think we’re (I still hope not, but probably) attacking Syria for the same reason: Assad is a Bad Guy who Must Go, and that’s what missiles are for.

  277. 277
    Socio-gen, something something...

    Yes, I’ve had that same sense of not belonging anywhere creep over me occasionally. In some ways, it’s a relief though. Home (the Twin Tiers region of PA/NY) is…well, not a place I really want to be associated with too much. There are good people there, including my kids and other loved ones, but it’s, in general, a Tea Party haven with all that that implies.

    I’m going to head off and soak in the tub for a bit before going to bed. Really hoping I’m feeling well enough to make it to class in the morning.

    Good night!

  278. 278
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Good night, Socio-gen, feel better.

    I’m going to bed too.

    Must run in the morning. The races I registered for are getting really close.

  279. 279
    Socio-gen, something something...

    Just saw this flash across my FB feed: Ariel Castro committed suicide in his cell.

    Okay, really off to bed now.

  280. 280
    chigau (違う)

    I’m not caught-up here but I must share:
    I just dumped the crumbs of the taco chips and the crumbs of the pita chips into the last of the hummus and the last of the salsa and mixed it up and am eating it with a spoon.
    Why have I never done this before now?

  281. 281
    chigau (違う)

    OK, I’ve caught-up whilst everyone else has been taken by the pods.
    but I must say that I am absolutely baffled by the notion that there is a recipe for stew.

  282. 282
    gobi's sockpuppet's meatpuppet

    “OK, I’ve caught-up whilst everyone else has been taken by the pods.”
     
    Join ussssssssssss!
    Help us quantify the stewwwwww!

  283. 283
    gworroll

    Socio-Gen @279-

    I’m trying to muster up some sympathy but fuck that guy. He’s really strained my opposition to the death penatly.

    I do feel really bad for his family. He put them through all this, and even got his brothers arrested as suspects. And then whatever familial love they still have for him, gets hit with this.

  284. 284
    chigau (違う)

    So, gobi’s sockpuppet’s meatpuppet #282
    (may I call you gobi?)
    (thank you for the invitation)
    what did you think of my recipe for variouschipsanddipmushedtogether recipe? [ #280]

  285. 285
    WMDKitty -- Survivor

    I got the meds issue sorted — as in, my prescriptions were available today, and Mom picked them up. I’m probably going to still be… “off”… for a bit, though. And that reminds me, I need to schedule my annual girly-exam. Joy of joys, one more reminder that I do, in fact, have a functioning uterus. A functioning uterus that I really, really do not want. I can live with said uterus as long as it’s not doing uterine things like menstruating.

  286. 286
    gobi's sockpuppet's meatpuppet

    Chigau: you may call me gobi :) – thank you for asking.
    Not sure about the hummus* but substitute with guacamole and I think you have a winner.
     
    *I am not a big hummus fan

  287. 287
    chigau (違う)

    gobi
    I experienced guacamole for the first time when I was in my teens.
    Avocados were expensive !!!
    I almost wept when I visited friends in New Zealand who were shovelling avocados into the garbage.
    I told them I was paying $2 per avocado and they were
    hahaha wait wut?

  288. 288
    chigau (違う)

    I will add
    myNZ friends had an avocado tree and a lemon tree in their modest urban back yard.
    [i haaatesss them, like all those okanagan “i haz peach trees in my back yard” people)
    canned fruit is delicious!!!

  289. 289
    gobi's sockpuppet's meatpuppet

    Just because… Jellyfish:
    I bought a couple of these recently*, a big one and a small one;
    http://www.dreams6.com/e/products/ilovenewyoku/jellyfishbathlight/
    I wanted a whole fluther of them but was told I was being silly :(
    The light on the big one softly pulses… soothing… soothing
     
    *not from the linked site – it just has nice photos of them

  290. 290
    gobi's sockpuppet's meatpuppet

    I have no idea why avocados can be so expensive – I have seen them up to $4 at times!

  291. 291
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Good morning
    Dalillama

    I think that concepts of sexual orientation would already look very different in that society. IME, sexual orientation is a lot fuzzier than most people really credit.

    Definetly!
    Although I don’t recall whether MM said anything about dimorphism, so I don’t know how easily people could make a guess about genitaliae from the body plan.
    I also think it’s something Pratchett failed to think through when he described the dwarves: Everybody is assumed male, and courtship is described as “delicate” because they need to carefully find out what body-parts are hidden behind the chainmail. That doesn’t make much sense, because before you start to “delicately investigate” you’d have to be attracted and interested in things that have completely nothing to do with genitals, so people would fall in love left right and centre with others regardless of whether they can procreate together easily or with help.

    A. Noyd

    I don’t even give a damn what gender people perceive me as unless they’re making sexist assumptions and/or treating me differently based on their perception.

    See, that’s why I think I have a strong gender identity. Some of my earliest memories about gender are people either misgendering me “the little boy” or giving me those nonpliments of “a boy was lost on you” or “you should have been born a boy”. Made me want to scream my head of. I’m a giiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiirrrrrrrrrrrlllllllllllllllllllllllllll. Yes, i like climbing trees and playing football and I have a pocketknife and that’s just none of your business.
    OTOH, it was people who insisted on gender performance who made me fight them, so my strong gender identity is also a product of having to fight for it. In a world that practized the pick ‘n’ mix approach to being a person I might not give a fuck either.

    +++
    CatieCat
    I’m just so sorry about that shit. I mean, really, how can they? That’s not a question I ask my friends, let alone strangers!

    Tony

    I’d add to that that my father’s personlization of gay sex is bizarre. When I think of my friends or family I do not think of their sex lives and I certainly do not imagine myself engaged in the sexual activities my family members or friends engage in.

    I often have the impression that some straight people think a lot more about gay sex than gay people…

    yazikus

    I spent many years of my youth trying to rid any american-ness from my accent. It was almost like a game. How many other english speaking countries could people guess where I was from?

    I’m always somewhere between a bit proud and heavily embarassed when people comment on my lack of German accent and my wonderful RP accent. OTOH I’m proud of having achieved that accent, OTOH I actually want to work against the stigma that non US/UK accents carry.
    Lately I’ve been confusing people and it’s Pharyngula to blame: I’m picking up many American expressions, but I keep my accent, of course, so I create a lot of cognitive dissonance :)

    Scritches for WMD Kitty

  292. 292
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    Oooh, that’s fun to say. Ojibwe has the glorious waawaabiganoojiinh (something like…wah wah bigga no’o jeenh) which is used for both mouse and rat.

    Does it happen to follow a similar pattern to German, combining multiple words of a description to form a noun?

    In other news, I appear to be having my first hangover ever, which is annoying and surprising. Actually maybe not the first; I didn’t feel so great last Christmas after a few soda-and-ports. It seems to be a specific reaction to wine, especially red, because I wasn’t even drunk per se (had about half of a 750mL bottle over more than an hour). I seem to have inherited my mom’s tannin sensitivity, or something. >.>

    Other than that, I haven’t had much sleep tonight.. ^.^

  293. 293
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    And on accents: I’ve apparently, recently and inadvertently, acquired a habit of lapsing into a pretty credible English accent (not cockney exactly, but certainly not an “upper class” accent – it reminds me of some of the Australians I’ve known) when Socially Lubricated. I’ve spent like four days in the UK total. I’m not sure where it came from.

    I dislike the way my regular voice sounds when recorded enough that I’m tempted to try to cultivate it. Britainese people aren’t an oppressed minority, are they? ;/

  294. 294
    Weedless Monkey

    yazikus
    :D

    “Voi vittu, jumalauta!!”

    My exact words when I slipped on ice and fell elbow first into dog poop.

  295. 295
    Kevin, Youhao Huo Mao

    Good morning everybody. Hope everyone’s doing well!

    I’m still editing my story, which is taking a long time. I had to switch around a couple sections, and in doing so, the following narrative didn’t quite make sense anymore. So, I’ll be doing those edits for a while.

    My girlfriend has introduced me to Korean food and it’s pretty good. Weird, but good. Also spicy, which is funny cause she doesn’t seem fazed by it in the least.We’re getting along well together, and I’ve seen her every day since the 22nd, including two weekends staying together. It’s awesome.

  296. 296
    CaitieCat, getaway driver

    That sounds wonderful, Kevin, your relationship (which sounds new? forgive me, I’m new-ish here – new to Lounge, nearly a year reading PZ+CC).

    Esteleth, thanks for hearing me so well about the cis/trans thing I brought up, and Tony and I think someone else replied too, maybe Giliell?

    Trying something new this morning, my doctor yesterday reminded me of her recommendation last winter that I use my full-spectrum bulb for an hour outside daylight hours, and that the same effect could be achieved if I simply woke up at dawn. So I’m trying it. This is me, up since dawn. Only had a few hours sleep, but should be mobile in another 1.5 hours or so.

    In the hopes of luring a few others of you to do so (because, for instance, I found oolon’s blog this morning, how cool!), my current public blog is at Fullmetal Feminist: chronic pain, depression, atheism, feminism, language geekery, art, poetry, probably a Supernatural rewatch soon (I need a couple more episodes in my bag before I want to start running, so I’ve got a cushion against Bad Weeks). Whatever I feel like, honestly. Trying to post more there, too, get back in the habit.

    If you’d rather not give them publicly here (for obvious reasons), comments at FMF are moderated by default, so if you leave it there as a comment, I’ll be the only one to see it, and I can delete it when I’m done, if you’d like. I’d very much like to read what you folks write, if you write. :)

    Now, back to making myself an appetite, so I can eat something to make my meds sit more nicely and play well with each other. *puff*

  297. 297
    carlie

    I almost wept when I visited friends in New Zealand who were shovelling avocados into the garbage.
    I told them I was paying $2 per avocado and they were
    hahaha wait wut?/blockquote>

    Texas, June, mangoes, same thing. I still harbor dreams of making an annual migration south just for the mangoes.

    Kevin, that’s great! I’m glad it’s going so well. :)

    I’m having one of those days. You know when you’re having an awful dream, and you wake up and try to shake it but your brain is still half asleep so it’s wrestling with trying to have normal thoughts but it still doesn’t work? Then just a series of little things of suckage all the way from getting ready to getting to work. I have to adjust my rotten attitude but fast before students show up. Blech.

  298. 298
    CaitieCat, getaway driver

    I hope your day improves as it goes along, carlie. *hugs* offered, if wanted. :)

  299. 299
    Kevin, Youhao Huo Mao

    @CaitieCat:

    Had our 2 month anniversary on the 31st (technically the 30th, but for ease-of-memory, we say the last day of each month – otherwise we’d have our 8th month anniversary on the 2nd of March! And then it just gets confusing after that!)

  300. 300
    carlie

    AND THE DAMNED BLOCKQUOTES TOO

  301. 301
    CaitieCat, getaway driver

    Kevin, that’s really great. Big smile on my face, I love new love. It’s one of the things I like about being poly, is being able to get that new-love feeling repeatedly, and have everyone be okay with it. :)

  302. 302
    carlie

    Thanks, CatieCat. :)

  303. 303
    CaitieCat, getaway driver

    To be explicit, btw: as long as I’m able to tell that you’re speaking to me, I’m not bothered if you call me CaitieCat, or CC, or Cait, or Caitie, or Cat, or Kat, or my favourite Caitmmm’q (the q is silent); as long as it’s something vaguely Kate-like, and I know you mean me, don’t stand a-ceremony-ing*.

    So, y’know, equally, if I answer you, you don’t need to apologize if you missed a letter or added a letter or whatever. If I don’t, it’s possible I didn’t see it.

    * I know. I do that a lot. If you don’t understand, by all means ask, but yes, it’s apurpose. I do like neologizing, me.

  304. 304
    carlie

    As if I don’t have enough to be annoyed at, avocados are listed as a single serving to be one-fifth of an avocado. I’m pretty sure that EVERY OTHER FRUIT IN THE WORLD is listed as a single unit of fruit = one serving, unless you’re talking about melons. Fuck you, nutrition info people. Just because it has more calories doesn’t mean you should treat it as if people will split one five ways to be “good”. Fucking nutrition labels.

  305. 305
    carlie

    Yeah fine, no fruits except the ones that are hand-sized. What I’m saying is, avocados are hand-sized just like oranges and apples and bananas and shit, and they get to be one per serving.

    Holy cow, am I grumpy. Sorry, all.

  306. 306
    carlie

    Yeah fine, no fruits except the ones that are hand-sized. What I’m saying is, avocados are hand-sized just like oranges and apples and bananas and shit, and they get to be one per serving.

    Holy cow, am I grumpy. Sorry, all.

    BUT MAYBE I DON’T WANT TO BE JUDGED BY A NUTRITION LABEL FOR EATING A WHOLE DAMNED AVOCADO, THAT’S ALL. IT TASTES GOOD AND IT IS GOOD.

    Ahem. Sorry again.

    ;)

  307. 307
    CaitieCat, getaway driver

    carlie, I bet it was demons made the label like that.

    Maybe I’ve been watching too many Pat Robertson vids at Right Wing Watch…

  308. 308
    carlie

    AND GO AHEAD AND DOUBLE POST WHILE YOU’RE ALL-CAPPING AND SCREWING UP BLOCKQUOTES, ME.

    IMMA GO TEACH NOW. MY STUDENTS WILL FEAR ME AND MY AVOCADO+FUELED RAGE, WHICH IS A LOT OF DAMNED FUEL, APPARENTLY, DUE TO THE FIVE SERVINGS AND ALL.

  309. 309
    CaitieCat, getaway driver

    On the good side, your day can hardly go anywhere but up, right? :)

  310. 310
    carlie

    I can’t even rant right. That was avocado-fueled rage, not avocado plus fueled rage, although that is also an amusing thought.

    It’s all Pat Robertson’s fault.

  311. 311
    Stella

    I have a problem accessing the rules and don’t know how to report it.

    Can anyone help me? Thanks.

    Stella

  312. 312
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Oh, don’t let me get started on “serving” sizes for fruit. A handful? Fuck your handful. My handful are about 5 plums.
    ——–

    Stella,

    Can you access Contact a Monitor on the sidebar? Under profile, above the links to Lounge, Thunderdome etc.
    My suggestion is to send an email to monitors and they can forward it to PZ. That will ensure that he sees it.

  313. 313
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Stella,

    I’m not sure whether PZ still checks that thread, but you could also post a complaint in the last thread where he engaged us about the rules – link to the thread.

  314. 314
    Stella

    Beatrice,

    Thank you.

    I didn’t know about the Contact a Monitor link on the sidebar. I appreciate your pointing that out. I am visually impaired and often miss things.

    I’m still working on reading the rules thread. I got the impression that things were pretty well settled, so I didn’t expect PZ to still be reading that thread.

    Thanks for your help.

    Stella

  315. 315
    UnknownEric the Apostate

    And on accents: I’ve apparently, recently and inadvertently, acquired a habit of lapsing into a pretty credible English accent (not cockney exactly, but certainly not an “upper class” accent – it reminds me of some of the Australians I’ve known) when Socially Lubricated. I’ve spent like four days in the UK total. I’m not sure where it came from.

    And here I’ve spent years trying to talk in a mildly posh British accent (see John Peel) and failing miserably. ;)

  316. 316
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Stella,

    Yeah, sending an email to monitors is definitely a safer bet than posting in the thread.

  317. 317
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Although, I just noticed that PZ has posted on New Commenting Rules (link) and that one is even older.

    The poopyhead works in mysterious ways ;)

  318. 318
    Pteryxx

    Stella, thanks for reminding us to offer direct links to the Rules and to Contact a Monitor. The system’s still new; I’m keeping a watch for your message to come through and I’ll confirm if and when it does.

  319. 319
    Pteryxx

    Stella:

    Your message to Contact a Monitor has come through. (So the email system is working – good to know!)

  320. 320
    Stella

    Thank you, Pteryxx. I sent the message a very few minutes ago.

    Stella

  321. 321
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Kevin:
    Quite glad things are going swimmingly with your GF. Korean food eh? I ate at a Korean rest. a few years ago, but I always wondered if the food was Americanized.

    ****

    Azkyroth:
    Whoa!
    I hate the way I sound in recordings. It is nothing like the way I hear myself talk. Never knew anyone else who felt the same.

  322. 322
    Kevin, Youhao Huo Mao

    @Tony!

    Easy to tell:

    Were there a bunch of tiny bowls of side-dishes served with the meal?

  323. 323
    CaitieCat, getaway driver

    Tony: Well, I’m definitely in that boat. A lot of my friends claim to really love my voice, but I’ve always hated it, with the sole exception of “when I’m singing”, but I don’t do much of that in front of people, unless we’re in a car together.

    I do like my singing voice, a decent contralto, and I’ve got very good pitch. But I hate my recorded voice, always seems very nasal and dull. On the up side, I don’t get called sir much on the phone anymore. Except by that one company. GRRR, $COMPANY!

    You can hear me, if you’re looking for a way to make yourself feel better at my expense, here. :)

  324. 324
    Pteryxx

    Stella:

    There’s no link to the Rules in the sidebar (where the Contact a Monitor link is). Would having a link there help in the short term?

    Also, I posted a reply to your message in the Monitors group. If it sends you any sort of reply or notification, could you please let us know, either here or privately to Contact a Monitor? As far as I know it shouldn’t but sometimes strange things happen with privacy settings.

  325. 325
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    CaitieCat:
    Supernatural fan, eh?
    Thst was one show I loved in the beginning, then drifted away from, then came back to and drifted away again.
    The second drift occurred shortly after my best friend died. We watched a lot of tv together. He got me into Project Runway and a few other shows. I got him into Supernatural. Watching ‘our’ shows just wasn’t the same with him gone.
    I sometimes get a desire to start watching Supernatural from thd beginning. Maybe one day.

  326. 326
    Stella

    Pteryxx,

    I received only your e-mail reply, to which I replied. I’m not sure what you mean about privacy settings. I did not receive anything from the group, only your reply from a gmail address.

    Thanks,

    Stella

  327. 327
    The Mellow Monkey

    WMDKitty, glad to hear your meds are sorted out. Ugh about the annual uterus tending.

    Azkyroth

    Does it happen to follow a similar pattern to German, combining multiple words of a description to form a noun?

    Good guess! It’s a very verb driven language, so new nouns are often formed through descriptions of action. As an example of this kind of formation, the Ojibwe word for computer and typewriter is misazinaabikiwebinigan. The literal translation is “they throw the designs away.” The story goes that it was coined when young women were going to the cities to learn typing for secretary work. Mazinaabidoo’an was the verb for making designs on a bead loom. This was then applied to printed books–mazina’igan–because of the orderly way the characters followed one another like beads in a design. It was natural to apply this to typing, but the practice work they did on the typewriters was repetitive and thrown away. Useless. Worse, when their training was done they couldn’t find jobs. Make a design and no one wants it, so throw it away. Then they throw you away because all your time has been wasted. And so misazinaabikiwebinigan: they throw the designs away.

    I make no claims that this story is true, mind you. This is just the story that’s told. The literal meaning of the word is accurately described, though.

    Giliell

    Although I don’t recall whether MM said anything about dimorphism, so I don’t know how easily people could make a guess about genitaliae from the body plan.

    There’s some dimorphism, but it’s not terribly dramatic. Males are a little taller on average and slightly hairier, but they’re not a body hair heavy people to start with and it’s typical for anyone who manages to grow facial hair to shave it off. Someone with prominent breasts might give some hint, but they wouldn’t make assumptions off of that because they’re familiar with intersex conditions and bodies not matching how a person feels. Presumably, some people have a preference for breasts or the absence thereof. They’re not a remarkably busty group of people either, though.

    Tony

    When I think of my friends or family I do not think of their sex lives and I certainly do not imagine myself engaged in the sexual activities my family members or friends engage in.

    I don’t think these things about my family, but…I do about friends. I sure as hell don’t say anything about it unless invited, but I’m curious about the parts of people’s lives that they keep hidden. I enjoy TMI talk with friends because it gives me a little glimpse into the intimate machinery of a person’s mind. Just sometimes I’ll look at people I know who’ve been married for years and years and are incredibly busy and randomly wonder, “Huh. How often do they fuck?”

    The genders involved are no barrier to my random, intrusive pondering. I just don’t say anything about it, because good god people.

    CaitieCat

    In the hopes of luring a few others of you to do so (because, for instance, I found oolon’s blog this morning, how cool!), my current public blog is at Fullmetal Feminist: chronic pain, depression, atheism, feminism, language geekery, art, poetry, probably a Supernatural rewatch soon (I need a couple more episodes in my bag before I want to start running, so I’ve got a cushion against Bad Weeks). Whatever I feel like, honestly. Trying to post more there, too, get back in the habit.

    Oooh, nifty. I shall check it out.

  328. 328
    Pteryxx

    Stella: Aaaaand that’s exactly what I needed to know.

    I received only your e-mail reply, to which I replied. I’m not sure what you mean about privacy settings. I did not receive anything from the group, only your reply from a gmail address.

    Because I didn’t intend to email you directly. I posted a reply to your message inside the Monitors Google group and it automatically emailed to you. Which exposed my email (no big deal, I was willing to test it in this case) and implies that I have YOUR email because of your response to the Monitors group, which IMHO should not be the case.

    Okay, this is a privacy issue that needs addressing right away. I’m alerting the Monitors group and PZ to this aspect, as well as leaving this comment here publicly.

  329. 329
    carlie

    I figured it out – I was pondering what the hell size 1/5 of a fruit is, and realized that, with a medium avocado, it’s about 2 tablespoons’ worth. So, what they’re doing is treating avocado as a fat and using the 2TB serving size they use for butter and oil, the assholes. *

    Stella – if you go to the main page, freethoughtblogs.com, there is a tab at the top to submit technical issues. If you’re having trouble with a screen reader or other types of visual accessibility problems, it would be worth reporting it as a sitewide design issue they should look into adapting.

    *What’s the consensus on “jerk”? It used to be one of my go-to less vitriolic insults, but I read once that it’s a masturbation reference and therefore a gendered insult?

  330. 330
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Pteryxx:
    Is there a list of the current monitors? I know a few…

  331. 331
    carlie

    Stella – I just sent a reply to Pteryxx in the google group and think I excluded your email; did you get it?

  332. 332
    Pteryxx

    Tony: I’m not sure because PZ is also changing the makeup of the monitor group. As far as I know it’s the dozen or so that John Morales linked here:

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/09/01/new-commenting-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-682611

    Monitors:

    Audley
    Alethea
    A.R. [Note: A.R. is no longer a monitor]
    Caine
    Carlie
    Chigau
    KG
    Lynna
    Owlmirror
    Pteryxx
    Sili

  333. 333
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Re: jerk

    I have zero problem using that as an insult. Given how sex talk is treated as taboo in society-even masturbation-I think jerk may be more often used as a milder form of asshole.

    Hmmm, now that has me pondering the nature of some insults such as the various gendered slurs, as well as asshole or the various fuck-related insults. Why are there so many insults of or related to sex or sex organs? Is that due all or in small part to the shaming of sex?

    When I was looking up the history of cursing/swearing/profanity I found the obvious ties to religion.

    The term “profane” originates from classical Latin “profanus”, literally “before (outside) the temple”. It carried the meaning of either “desecrating what is holy” or “with a secular purpose” as early as the 1450s CE. [4] Profanity represented secular indifference to religion or religious figures, while blasphemy was a more offensive attack on religion and religious figures, considered sinful, and a direct violation of The Ten Commandments.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profanity

    The taboo nature of profanity was at one point, linked to desecrating holy figures. It may not literally be the case these days, but that actually make me wonder why swearing or cursing is seen as so profoundly awful.

    I wonder if religious indoctrination is responsible for the perception that various body parts or sex activities are shameful therefore disgusting therefore insulting.
    ____
    This is one reason I like the creation of new terms, like douchenozzle. Yeah douching relates to sexual organs, but the insult stems from the harmful nature of douching rather than shame over sexual organs or insulting others through gendered slurs.

  334. 334
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Pteryxx:
    Thanks.

  335. 335
    Stella

    carlie,

    Thanks for the referral to the Tech Issues tab, but this is a Pharyngula issue. Screen magnification does not allow the top graphic with tabs to show in its entirety. My tabs stop at “About”. Scrolling horizontally does not show all the tabs, either.

    Your exclusion of my e-mail address in what you sent to the group has apparently been successful. I have not received a copy of whatever you sent.

    Stella

  336. 336
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    *What’s the consensus on “jerk”? It used to be one of my go-to less vitriolic insults, but I read once that it’s a masturbation reference and therefore a gendered insult?

    1) Masturbation is gendered?
    2) Should we just skip to “doubleplusungood” and be done with it? >.>

  337. 337
    Kevin, Youhao Huo Mao

    @Tony:

    Werps, put this on the wrong thrad:

    My half-Korean girlfriend told me those side-dishes are called ‘banchan.’

  338. 338
    A. Noyd

    Giliell (#291)

    I often have the impression that some straight people think a lot more about gay sex than gay people…

    The obsession is so weird since I can’t think of any sex act that gay couples can do that straight couples can’t. Especially since some women have penises and some men have vaginas. (Not that straight people obsessed with how gays boink one another tend to be able to wrap their mind around that.) To me, gayness (and bi-ness) isn’t determined by how the people involved mash squishy bits together but by their desire to form a relationship—sexual and/or romantic—with those of the same gender. So, I do not get at all how gayness, in so many people’s minds, reduces to “ZOMG, BUTTSEX!!!!”

    ~*~*~*~*~*~*~

    Kevin (#295)

    My girlfriend has introduced me to Korean food and it’s pretty good. Weird, but good.

    I’d like Korean food a lot more if a) I could tolerate spicyness better, and b) meat with all the other bits of the critter still attached didn’t squick me out. (I also get squicked out by things like spare ribs and chicken wings in good ol’ American cooking.) Because, other than that, I love the general flavors of Korean cooking.

  339. 339
    Kevin, Youhao Huo Mao

    @A Noyd:

    We had some kind of rice dish with lots of delicious seafoods and then the banchan.

  340. 340
    Lynna, OM

    We’ve discussed before the abuses and general awfulness of the private prison system(s) in the USA. Now it seems the cash-cow prison systems may be in a bit of trouble thanks to several factors. So, what will we do about this impending corporate disaster? Corporate welfare! We will bail them out.

    Private prison systems were always a bad idea. The incentive to lock people up was the top priority. Abuse and death statistics are worse in private prisons. The main justification for their existence, namely to save money for the states and for the federal government, was not fulfilled in real life. Money was not saved. Private prisons cost the taxpayers more. Lots of good christian businessmen used private prisons to make themselves a buttload of money while also proselytizing to prisoners, while deleting other rehab programs that would have been beneficial. Federal dollars, as well as state taxpayer dollars, have been funneled to owners of private prisons.

    An article in Salon talks about the private prison economy and a proposed bailout in California. The article doesn’t really get into the fundamental fuckedupedness of the entire private prison system, but the look at current demographic trends and factors affecting private prison economics is good.

    How well has the private prison industry done, recently? As of a couple years ago, the fastest-growing airline in America was the non-commercial one that flew undocumented immigrants from one detention center to another. The deportation bubble meant boom times for the industry, which profited off fat contracts with the Department of Homeland Security.

    Now, with the president’s Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program protecting nearly half a million DREAM kids, and flickers of hope for comprehensive immigration reform, that cash cow may be fading. …[This is why the private prison industry lobbies against immigration reform.] Worse for the private prison industry, a persistently falling crime rate has led to a slightly smaller prison population in 2012 for the third consecutive year. The United States still incarcerates more people than any country on Earth, but a for-profit prison industry seeking constant growth should be alarmed by the numbers — especially if the Justice Department really declares a cease-fire in the war on drugs.

    But what do we do with struggling yet politically powerful industries in America? We bail them out, of course!

    And California is set to do just that for the private prison industry. Under a Supreme Court order to reduce the prison population, Gov. Jerry Brown has outlined a plan where he would transfer thousands of prisoners to the for-profit system and pay them hundreds of millions in taxpayer dollars for the privilege. … [Private prison systems often exist side-by-side with publicly-funded prison systems.]

    Attrition and partial compliance whittled down the mandatory release number to 10,000, mostly by transferring prisoners from state to county jails. Under this realignment plan, the counties, which had even less room in their lockups, were forced to release thousands of inmates before their sentences were up. But most important to the Legislature and the governor, they couldn’t be blamed for the aftermath. …

    Jerry Brown and his colleagues are too cowardly to stand with a growing cohort of policymakers who understand that we can invest in rehabilitation, drug treatment and deliberate reentry programs and have better outcomes, rather than revert back in fear to a “lock-’em-up” mentality that shortchanges taxpayers and rewards private prison executives, at no benefit to society

    For background on the private prison industry:
    http://www.cnbc.com/id/44762286
    http://www.vice.com/read/whos-getting-rich-off-the-prison-industrial-complex

  341. 341
  342. 342
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    Kevin
    Congrats.

    Korean food eh? I ate at a Korean rest. a few years ago, but I always wondered if the food was Americanized.

    There used to be a little diner in Eugene which was run by a Korean couple called the Plaza Cafe; when they’d got the place, it was a pretty standard lunch counter, and all the old menus with hotdogs and grilled cheese were still posted, but no-one ever tried to order them, because what the place really served was mouth-wateringly delicious authentic Korean food.

    Is that due all or in small part to the shaming of sex?

    Basically, yes. The basic categories of swearing tend to be profanity, scatalogical references (it’s fairly obvious why ‘this is shit’ would generally be negative, for instance’), and taboo.
    Lynna

    The main justification for their existence, namely to save money for the states and for the federal government, was not fulfilled in real life. Money was not saved.

    AFAICT, money has never been saved by offloading government services onto the private sector.

  343. 343
    Walton

    Lyna: Indeed. It makes me very angry how private prison corporations profit from the detention of undocumented people – making money from tearing families apart and ruining lives. Undocumented people aren’t criminals and have done nothing wrong, and shouldn’t be detained in the first place. And in some cases the industry has lobbied against immigration reform in order to keep the cash flowing in.

  344. 344
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Another I Thought I Was The Only One Who Felt That Way: Carnivor Edition:

    I can’t eat ribs, and really don’t like picking the bones out of chicken wings. They’d better be amazing wings.

    My cousin’s husband posted this: https://sphotos-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/1000353_10151924449714384_1860161315_n.jpg

    on fb. I want to say “When I say I’m an atheist, it’s because I’m better than you.” or something, but I’m sure the humor would be lost…

  345. 345
    A. Noyd

    Kevin (#339)

    We had some kind of rice dish with lots of delicious seafoods and then the banchan.

    I like to get the bi bim bap hot pot at the place near my uni. I just wish my stupid sensitivities let me comfortably try more things.

  346. 346
    Kevin, Youhao Huo Mao

    @A Noyd:

    That’s what it’s called!

  347. 347
    Socio-gen, something something...

    Finally feeling vaguely human — enough to make it to my classes anyway. Yay! The fever finally broke around 3am (oh my…like the Johnstown flood…) which helped immensely.

    gworroll
    Yeah, I have zero sympathy for him. I feel bad for his family, who have to continue to cope with the enormity of his crimes, but perhaps his death is a relief of sorts for them.

    WMDKitty
    Glad the med situation is resolved. Thanks for reminding me I need to schedule a girly-parts exam too… *sigh*

    chigau
    *shudder* I don’t like avocado anything, not even a face mask. I’m told this is a great failing on my part….

    Kevin
    Congratulations. That early stage of a romance is so much fun!

    carlie
    One avocado is 5 servings? What?? While I am no fan of the avocado, that just seems wrong. My personal theory is: one single fruit/veggie in a skin/peel (orange/apple/tomato/cuke = 1 serving. 1 bag/container (regardless of pound weight) of little fruits/veggies (berries, grapes, baby carrots) = 1 serving.

    RAGE RAGE! FIGHT THE ANTI-AVOCADO POWER!


    Off to the last class of the day, where I can learn something about Kepler’s Laws or something. Oh Astronomy….how I dislike you.

  348. 348
    cicely

    Glad things are going so well for you and your girlfriend, Kevin.
    :)
    -
    carlie:

    I’m having one of those days. You know when you’re having an awful dream, and you wake up and try to shake it but your brain is still half asleep so it’s wrestling with trying to have normal thoughts but it still doesn’t work? Then just a series of little things of suckage all the way from getting ready to getting to work. I have to adjust my rotten attitude but fast before students show up. Blech.

    *hugs*, and a polite request for you to vacate my brain, like now! since (aside from part about the students, of which I have none), I coulda written this. I’m doing a Trapped-In-The-Dream/Sleepless-In-Sucky-Knees-Land fusion, today.
     
    Unenjoyable. Do. Not. Want.
    -

    Oh, don’t let me get started on “serving” sizes for fruit. A handful?

    I can only assume that there is some standardized “handful”-size, ’cause I have smallish hands with short, stubby fingers, and you can’t tell me that my “handful” is nutritionally equal to, say, The Husband’s much larger “handful”.
    -
    I hate the sound of my voice.
    I’m surprised that anyone can stand to listen to it.
    -

    You can hear me, if you’re looking for a way to make yourself feel better at my expense, here. :)

    I listened.
    It did not work as stated.
    I demand a refund!
    :D
    -

    My cousin’s husband posted this: https://sphotos-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/1000353_10151924449714384_1860161315_n.jpg

    In my experience, this is not Christianity As It Is Typically Practiced. This is the Fantasy Christianity Of Their Self-Misperceptions.
    -

  349. 349
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    In my experience, this is not Christianity As It Is Typically Practiced. This is the Fantasy Christianity Of Their Self-Misperceptions.

    And still kinda fucked up. >.>

  350. 350
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    My cousin (who lives a mile from me) just sent me a text out of the blue that says “I miss you. Haven’t seen you in a long time.” It’s been about two weeks. ^_^ I think I have something in my eye. It’s nice to be missed, and loved, and especially to be reminded of it for no particular reason.

  351. 351
    Pteryxx

    I missed seeing Jen’s post “Why are you calling my texting device?” with all the local kerfuffle, but it’s gone Most Active now and the comments are GREAT. Really good consciousness-raising for yappy people (like me) who prefer voice communication (SO not me).

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/blaghag/?p=4051

  352. 352
    Nutmeg

    Wow, Jen is inside my head. Thanks for the link, Pteryxx.

  353. 353
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Jen is so in my head there.

    One of the comments was from someone who has considered faking deafness as an excuse for not using the phone.

    So…

    …um…

    I’ve actually done that. I feel bad. I realize that isn’t appropriate.

    That is how bad my phone anxiety is.

  354. 354
    Tethys

    Hi lounge! Just popping in to post this news from deep offshore Massachusetts as link bait for PZ*, and of course because its just some awesomely cool video featuring tentacles that is perfect for the horde. Be sure to scroll down and watch the video of eel meets squid.

    http://oceanleadership.org/squee-octopus-hatchling-spotted-by-deep-sea-explorer/

    *I posted the link about the leopard seal weekss ago in a Pinker thread.
    I love that video.

  355. 355
    Weedless Monkey

    Meh. I hate text messages almost as much as phone calls. Maybe that’s why I last received a phone bill sometime in January or February.

  356. 356
    Inaji

    People who simply cannot manage to be anywhere without a phone glued to their head, Gaah. I do have an effing cell phone, only because we have no land line and I’m rural and alone a lot, so emergencies. Exactly *one* person has my number, and that’s Mister.

  357. 357
    Weedless Monkey

    I WANT ONE OF THESE

  358. 358
    Inaji

    Weed Monkey:

    I WANT ONE OF THESE

    Pure awesomeness. In my case, it would have to be painted bright red.

  359. 359
    The Mellow Monkey

    Esteleth

    One of the comments was from someone who has considered faking deafness as an excuse for not using the phone.

    So…

    …um…

    I’ve actually done that. I feel bad. I realize that isn’t appropriate.

    It’s not appropriate, no, but I’m sympathetic. Trying to explain my communication problems (yes, I can hear; no, I can’t understand you) is really, really difficult. As a result, I have terrible anxiety related to communicating in any way. When I had to have customer service jobs I’d be an absolute nervous wreck by the time a shift was done. Trying to explain a problem you might have with the phone can be hard if it’s not a very easy “I am physically incapable of that” explanation. Many privileged people really take it for granted that everyone communicates (or should communicate) the same way they do.

    Weed Monkey

    I WANT ONE OF THESE

    If I share this with my partner, he may expect me to build one now. >.>

  360. 360
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Usually when I’m in such a bind I kind of hedge and say that I’m hard of hearing.

    I was truly flabbergasted awhile back. My pharmacy has a very helpful service where they’ll automatically refill your scrips when they’re running on empty. Then you get a phone call in a truly horrible computer-generated voice saying,

    Hello, is a courtesy call from [pharmacy]. The prescription for [name] has been refilled and is available for pickup at [location], where the hours are [hours].”

    I asked to be notified in a different way, because as bad as phones are for me, computer-generated voices are horrifyingly bad. The pharmacy tech said that if I want to use the automatic-refill service, then I would always get called and there was no way to opt-out.

    This is especially flabbergasting as the city I live in has one of the highest concentrations of deaf people in the nation, and is usually very good about providing services to people who cannot hear or hear well.

  361. 361
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    @Carlie

    AVOCADO+FUELED RAGE

    OH! It’s avocado+

    And the + is fueled rage?

    A+ sounds better and better all the time!

  362. 362
    Lynna, OM

    Walton @343:

    Indeed. It makes me very angry how private prison corporations profit from the detention of undocumented people – making money from tearing families apart and ruining lives. Undocumented people aren’t criminals and have done nothing wrong, and shouldn’t be detained in the first place. And in some cases the industry has lobbied against immigration reform in order to keep the cash flowing in.

    Too true. Too true. Furthermore, private prisons have been so poorly managed that some undocumented persons have died or suffered physical harm in those prisons.

    … The ACLU of Texas spent three years investigating Texas’ immigrant prisons and found what it calls a “two-tiered system of justice” in which non-citizens are corralled into overcrowded, substandard prisons run by private operators with records of misconduct. In a forthcoming report based on interviews with 150 prisoners in four different Texas criminal alien prisons, the ACLU alleges that the segregation of non-citizens, mostly Latinos, within the federal prison system violates prisoners’ constitutional rights. …

    Federally run prisons are no Club Med. But in the agency’s 83-year history, there hasn’t been a single documented riot over poor conditions. There have been three riots in privately operated federal facilities. GEO Group’s enormous Reeves County Detention Center in Pecos was the site of two explosive uprisings in December 2008 and January 2009. (See “The Pecos Insurrection,” Oct. 8, 2009). The first riot was sparked after Jesus Galindo, an epileptic who had begged for medical treatment, was found dead in solitary confinement. The ACLU of Texas has documented nine deaths from suicide or illness at Reeves since 2006.

    http://www.texasobserver.org/give-us-your-tired-your-poor-your-huddled-masses-we-have-private-prisons-to-fill/

  363. 363
    Lynna, OM

    Dalillama @342:

    AFAICT, money has never been saved by offloading government services onto the private sector.

    Yeah. And now I fear the story will the same when Republicans have completed their demolition of the public school system in order to set the stage for more private school systems. Somehow, we will all pay a bigger and bigger bill for education services.

  364. 364
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Somehow, we will all pay a bigger and bigger bill for education services.

    Well, of course. You act like a high-quality education is something that you’re entitled to. If you’re one of “those people” all you need to learn is how to be properly servile to your betters.

  365. 365
    Lynna, OM

    Republicans have found yet another way to slow down or stop the full implementation of Obamacare. They have targeted states with the highest populations of uninsured people, (and therefore the states that need Obamacare’s mandated medical exchanges the most), and have been drowning those states in paperwork.


    a group of House Republicans [is] attempting to bog down Obamacare enrollment … in states with the highest uninsured populations, according to a new Salon analysis.

    Last week, as several other outlets reported, Republicans on the House Energy and Commerce Committee sent letters to state agencies and nonprofit groups that received Obamacare “navigator” grants — organizations that will help educate people about the law and facilitate their enrollment — seeking an incredibly broad and difficult-to-compile range of information.

  366. 366
    Lynna, OM

    Also from the Salon article referenced in #365:

    Republicans seem unconcerned with the privacy of uninsured people in states like Wyoming and New Hampshire. Unless protecting uninsured people from slipshod navigators is only worth doing in states with large uninsured populations, it looks like Republicans were mainly interested in creating obstacles for as many uninsured people as possible, and this targeting scheme was meant to maximize bang for their buck.

  367. 367
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    Lynna

    Somehow, we will all pay a bigger and bigger bill for education services.

    Which will be worse and worse. The ‘somehow’ is actually pretty easy, though. The private contractors add several new layers of middlemen, who expect to get paid well for doing it. There’s the shareholders in the education corporations, they want a chunk of the cash (and as the shares get traded for higher prices, the new shareholders will want a bigger chunk to justify the price they paid), the whole new layer of management is present to run the company’s affairs, which are separate from the Education department who used to handle those things and now handles dealing with these assholes, who want a cut, and a bunch of things that used to be handled in house (like janitorial services) are outsourced to a different company, adding another layer of shareholders and management, etc. And this occurs separately for as many private education companies there are; what used to be one unified bureaucracy becomes 6 or a dozen, all competing and hiding information from each other, which makes everything even less efficient. And, of course, despite the ever-increasing costs to the taxpayer, the actual teachers and other front-line staff are underpaid and have no resources to do their job, because all the layers of management and shareholders have taken the money for themselves.

  368. 368
    Lynna, OM

    Esteleth @364:

    You act like a high-quality education is something that you’re entitled to. If you’re one of “those people” all you need to learn is how to be properly servile to your betters.

    Correctamundo! Quality education only for the 1%, I say. Let’s romneyfi education in less than one generation. [practices servile eye-down postures]

    Also, god will grant you a high-quality education if you do not blaspheme. Goddamnit.

  369. 369
    Lynna, OM

    Dalillama @367: Yes, just a private prisons did not save us any money while also providing worse prisoner care, most for-profit schools in the elementary and secondary realm provide an inadequate education, and sometimes they provide a religiously-infected anti-education.

    To your paragraph detailing the woes, I will add that for-profit school systems make under-the-table corrupt business deals with suppliers of books, computers, etc.

  370. 370
    Walton

    [TW: brutal violence against immigrants by detention centre guards]

    Lynna: GEO Group operates detention facilities here, too. They operate Harmondsworth immigration removal centre, where Prince Ofosu died last year.

    In sharp contrast to the silence from the Home Office and their private contractors, detainees inside the centre and a GEO member of staff, who wishes to remain anonymous, issued a joint statement confirming the man’s name as Prince Ofosu, a 31 year old Ghanaian man. The statement goes on to detail a series of incidences of abuse and violence inflicted up on Prince by GEO staff in the twenty-four hours leading up to his death.

    The whistle-blowing officer (a member of the centre’s staff) states that Prince was:

    stripped naked at the block [rule 40] and the heating system was turned off. He was left in the cold without even a duvet till his death 24 hours’ later.

    The statement describes him being held in the block, ‘forcibly restrained’ and hit by ’massive blows’ from a member of staff. The officer involved in the incident, known as ‘Jim’, was reportedly told to remove his blood stained clothes to hide the evidence, and to request leave.

    And he wasn’t the first, or the last.

  371. 371
    Lynna, OM

    Walton @370: One of the recurring themes in the articles I’ve read on the private prison behemoths in the USA is the lack of oversight, the lack of accountability. It’s like GEO Group and others are pretty much left to do whatever the fuck they want to do. And that includes hiring untrained or even criminal guards.

    In Idaho, one correctional facility billed taxpayers for services that were not provided and for hours of employee time that were not real. Their real problem though, was violence.

    The lawsuit centers around the complaints of eight ICC [Idaho Correction Center, south of Boise, run by Corrections Corporation of America] inmates who claim chronic understaffing and mismanagement led to an attack in which they were jumped, beaten, stabbed and slashed by members of an inmate gang.

    Link.

    Then there is this problem:
    CCA bringing christian evangelists into its prisons.

    Talking a good game while really preaching religion to a captive audience.

    Chaplain and religious services are provided at all CCA facilities. All faith-based programs are voluntary, in adherence with the First Amendment and established policies and procedures. CCA actively recruits volunteers to provide religious services for inmates of all beliefs. Religious services and programs focus on the principles and knowledge needed to practice positive, life-changing values, attitudes and behaviors. CCA has developed partnerships with national and international faith-based ministries including: * Alpha USA

    Billy Graham Center at Wheaton College

    Celebrate Recovery Inside

    Child Evangelism Fellowship

    Champions for Life

    Habitat for Humanity

    Institute for Basic Life Principles

    Joni and Friends’ Wheels for the World

    Joyce Meyer Ministries

    Prison Fellowship Ministries Aftercare

    Purpose-Driven Life

    School of Christ International

    Trinity Broadcasting Network…

    That disclaimer that all faith-based programs are “voluntary” doesn’t hold water in the prison world, where pressures can be brought, and where these programs may be the only relief from a cell. Look at the list of affiliates and tell me how many of those jokers you would trust. Purpose-Driven Life!?

  372. 372
    Weedless Monkey

    Cheesus. I forgot where I placed my eyeglasses when I went to sleep, and now I’m nearly blind.

  373. 373
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Weed Monkey,

    Try the fridge. Somewhere around the toilet. If there is an even more unlikely place, try there first.

  374. 374
    Weedless Monkey

    They were in the bath tub! Fridge is often a good call too, I’ve found my wallet there more than once.

  375. 375
    Inaji

    I’m prone to sleep walking, and I had a phase some years back, where I’d sonambulate every night, apparently for the sole purpose of picking up my eyeglasses and hiding them, so I couldn’t find them in the morning.

  376. 376
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    The funniest place I ever found my glasses was right there on my nose… after I spent a good half an hour searching for them everywhere.

  377. 377
    chigau (違う)

    My eyeglasses are on a librarian string around my neck, on the bedside table or under my bum as I sit down.

  378. 378
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Good eevening
    Just something to chuckle from our RPG group tonight before I head to bed.
    So, the group recaps last session’s events, for the general benefit of everybody and the special benefit of one friend who couldn’t be here last time.
    When we’re done he goes:
    Well, I have just one more question: What is actually my first name?

    We laughed a lot tonight. And my character looted pretty bling things.

  379. 379
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    I’m prone to sleep walking, and I had a phase some years back, where I’d sonambulate every night, apparently for the sole purpose of picking up my eyeglasses and hiding them, so I couldn’t find them in the morning.

    So.

    Much.

    This.

  380. 380
    Weedless Monkey

    under my bum as I sit down.

    That’s how I destroyed my earlier pair. Sitting down, drunk and high as hell, to marvel at my glorious cannabis garden.

  381. 381
    Inaji

    Crip Dyke:

    So.

    Much.

    This.

    You too? There is just no way to get across how bad it is, when you’re busy sabotaging yourself every night.

  382. 382
    gobi's sockpuppet's meatpuppet

    Hello lounge people
    Eyeglasses. Only just started needing them for my drawing, but now that I have them I realise just how much I was guessing where to put things on the paper (I use very fine pens down to 0.03mm).

  383. 383
    Inaji

    gobi:

    (I use very fine pens down to 0.03mm).

    Pffft, that’s all? My favourite pen tip to use, years and years ago, was a 0.05mm rapidograph. :D

  384. 384
    opposablethumbs

    carlie, I’m sorry about the avocado-fueled rage but you made me laugh – so thank you for that, ’cause I needed it :-)

    Also, the minimum amount of avocado it is humanly possible to eat is half an avocado. The other half can wait until later, with plenty of lemon juice all over it to keep it from going brown. Later doesn’t take very long to arrive, of course … :-D

  385. 385
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    @Walton,

    or, well, the blog Walton quotes, I guess:

    The statement goes on to detail a series of incidences of abuse and violence

    The incidences of abuse in 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012?

    Sigh.

    Grammar: it’s for breakfast anymore.

  386. 386
    WMDKitty -- Survivor

    I’ve done the “look for my glasses while I’m wearing them” thing. I always end up feeling so. fucking. dumb. because, derp, right there the whole time!

    And then there was the time I spent ten minutes looking for my lighter.

    While using said lighter as a light source.

    Derp, indeed.

  387. 387
    Socio-gen, something something...

    Ugh! and ARGH! and Grrrrr…..

    My upstairs neighbor texts me to let me know my smoke alarm is going off. I tell him I’ll be there in 10 min and to call the fire department. He says there’s no smoke or any smell of smoke. Okay, fine.

    I race home, unlock the door (after four tries), and rush inside. No smoke, no nothing, but the smoke detector in the bedroom is going off. Go in and discover …. a 1/2″ of water on the floor, mattress, sheets, most of the pillows, and comforter are SOAKED (as in weighed a ton and is dripping water). An afghan on a shelf in the corner is soaked. Four pairs of shoes, soaked. Message upstairs neighbor back, as he left before I got home, and he tells me that, oh yeah, his bathroom sink overflowed while he was taking a nap but he hadn’t thought it was that bad because there wasn’t much water on the floor.

    *sigh* Luckily nothing valuable of mine damaged and no permanent damage (other than what will probably be water-stains on the ceiling, which is mostly fake-tin tile). Because there is nothing I need more right now than to mop and dry up the floor, aim fans at my mattress, and sleep on my couch until it’s dry.

  388. 388
    gobi's sockpuppet's meatpuppet

    Caine:
    Umm… 0.03mm is thinner than 0.05mm :)
    …but rapidographs! Did you use the refillable ones that were almost impossible to clean if the ink dried in the tip? It’s not art/design unless you get covered in ink or paint or some such.
    These days: Wacom tablets, styli with pressure levels, simulated paper texture (simulated!)…
    Sigh. I am going to go and hug my pencils now.

  389. 389
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    Socio-Gen
    Ugh. *sends warm breezes through the USB*

  390. 390
    gobi's sockpuppet's meatpuppet

    Socio-gen:
    Oh no! I hope you can get everything dried out with no damage.
    Be careful with anything electrical including your power points and light switches!

  391. 391
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    @socio-gen:

    This kind of thing can cause toxic mold outbreaks if not dealt with. At the very least you need an inspection from someone competent in that sort of thing (e.g. not me).

  392. 392
    Inaji

    gobi:

    Umm… 0.03mm is thinner than 0.05mm :)

    Yeah, I realized after I hit submit, I went the wrong fucking way. Not my day.

  393. 393
    Inaji

    Gobi:

    …but rapidographs! Did you use the refillable ones that were almost impossible to clean if the ink dried in the tip?

    Oh hells yes. Gad, those things were a pain in the ass. I went through about two sets a year.

    It’s not art/design unless you get covered in ink or paint or some such.

    I’ve been doing this on a regular basis for so long, that it’s unusual to see me not covered in ink/paint/pencil smudge/charcoal dust/pigment powder/whatthefuckever.

    These days: Wacom tablets, styli with pressure levels, simulated paper texture (simulated!)…

    Eh, I have all that stuff…rarely use it.

    Sigh. I am going to go and hug my pencils now.

    That sounds like a plan. :D I have a show coming up in 7 months, and I’m not even halfway done with stuff.

  394. 394
    Socio-gen, something something...

    Dalillama
    Thanks. Wish this had happened last week when we were having temps in the 90′s and my apartment was like an oven…

    GSM
    I unplugged everything in that room and haven’t even touched the light switch! Water + electricity = very bad things. Learned that the hard way with the electric fence when I was a kid.

    Crip Dyke
    Too right. I have a bit too much experience cleaning up after various types of flooding. The big thing is to dry it, thoroughly, as fast as possible and give nothing a chance to sprout (hopefully).

    Right now, I’m waiting for the landlord to get here to … well, to be honest, he’ll do nothing as far as making sure there’s no mold threat (pretty sure I’ll have to contact the city inspector myself) but at least I can get it on the record that I’m not responsible for any damage to the apartment as a result of this.

  395. 395
    carlie

    I’m still working my way back through wtfplus, so thanks, Portia. :)

    but rapidographs! Did you use the refillable ones that were almost impossible to clean if the ink dried in the tip?

    I have a set! I had to buy one for a scientific illustration class I took in grad school. We were told explicitly what a great deal we were getting, but it was still a lot on the money we made. I took it out this summer to play with and yes, there was ink dried in the tip of the tiny ones (the 00, which I think might be the .3?). I’m wondering if I can use any of them as regular pens – I like really thin lines when I write because my handwriting is crap, but there is some amount of drag b/c they’re stainless steel tips.

  396. 396
    gobi's sockpuppet's meatpuppet

    Caine
    I have fallen in love with Copic SP pens – you can wash over them with watercolour just like my old Rotring rapidographs. The tips are nylon but are replaceable.
     
    Socio-gen
    floods and mold: During the ’11 floods I had someone kayak me to our house so I could open all the windows and doors for airflow. After the waters receded we had some very nasty anti-mold, antibacterial stuff sprayed around. Lots of people got ill after the cleanup – they called it Flood Lung

  397. 397
    Nutmeg

    Caine:

    I’m prone to sleep walking, and I had a phase some years back, where I’d sonambulate every night, apparently for the sole purpose of picking up my eyeglasses and hiding them, so I couldn’t find them in the morning.

    Eeep! I have some relatively new sleep problems (night terrors <4x per month for six months). Since night terrors and sleepwalking often co-occur, and I have lots of family history of sleepwalking, and I have once gotten out of bed during a night terror and a few times moved stuff within reach of my bed, I’ve been taking some basic precautions against sleepwalking. I hide all my meds and weapons at night, and I have barriers between myself and the stairs, but it never occurred to me to protect my glasses. (Thankfully, I seem to go straight for sources of light when I’m confused while coming out of a night terror. My bedside lamp and flashlight are pretty harmless, and it’s not a big deal if they end up somewhere weird.)

    Update on my “fix night terrors with science!” project: I’ve been recording myself while I sleep for almost two months now. The only pattern I’ve picked out is that the night terrors occur on Saturdays about two-thirds of the time. It’s been every other Saturday since the beginning of July, like freaking clockwork in my subconscious (plus some bonus night terrors on a couple of Mondays). I have no idea why.

  398. 398
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    Caine:

    I like you a lot. I can’t promise I would like your art (or have the appropriate amount of money), but something I would otherwise kinda like would be something I would definitely want if it came from you & I could have it in my home.

    If there’s a way that would be appropriately anonymous to you, I’d love to be able to see your show’s contents.

  399. 399
    gobi's sockpuppet's meatpuppet

    Carlie
    The drag on paper with any kind of texture might put you off writing with the thin ones.
    There is practically a branch of science devoted to cleaning dried ink out of the things – start with soaking the tips in warm water.
    The ones I used had an incredibly fine wire that extended down inside the tip. It was attached to lump of metal at the other end that rattled when you shook the pen up and down (to encourage the ink into the tip) When the ink dries it bonds this wire into the tip – very tricky. Warm soapy water overnight may do the trick.

  400. 400
    carlie

    gobi – that sounds more fancy than mine (it was a Koh-i-noor, maybe not the same kind of pen?). I did soak it in the cleaning solution (included in the kit) for a couple of days, but nothing doing.

    School starts tomorrow. I had a nightmare last night that my kids had no clothes to wear, so we’re making sure everything is done and laid out NOW.

  401. 401
    Socio-gen, something something...

    gobi:

    Lots of people got ill after the cleanup – they called it Flood Lung

    Oh yes. I had a few family and friends who came down with it, either from their own homes or from clean-up at others’ homes. It was, in some areas, nearly at epidemic levels.

  402. 402
    Inaji

    Crip Dyke:

    I like you a lot. I can’t promise I would like your art (or have the appropriate amount of money), but something I would otherwise kinda like would be something I would definitely want if it came from you & I could have it in my home.

    If there’s a way that would be appropriately anonymous to you, I’d love to be able to see your show’s contents.

    If I can figure out a way to do that, I will. I do all manner of stuff, I’ve never been able to settle on a particular media or style, I’m too bloody restless for that. What kind of thing do you like? Because I’d happily do something on the smaller side for you, as my large stuff is pretty expensive.

  403. 403
    Inaji

    Speaking of, I’ve been going through a mandala phase lately…

  404. 404
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    Well, I like neo-impressionism, especially things that are red/orange/gold or that prominently feature purple. It’s the, “I can clearly tell what this is supposed to be, yet it is also clearly an artist picking out details and lines that they choose to create the story/mood they want to tell” that makes it work for me. I want to be in dialog with the artist that way, not merely in dialog with the image – which is possible in really good photography, but that photo-realism (with cameras or a skilled artist) feels like the interaction with the artist is cut off.

    Likewise things that are too crisp – I’ve seen woodcuts that look like lithographs drawn using protractors. The precise geometry takes skill, but it’s hard to feel connected to the artist other than to say, “Holy crap that person is very dedicated to hir art!”

    The most striking thing i’ve seen in the last couple of years has been someone who took multiple photos of the same scene (a panorama series done more than once), then painstakingly cut the photos into length-wise rectangles about 1 cm wide by 2mm high. From the pieces, they created a collage that didn’t perfectly reproduce the original image, but created this amazing *feeling* of the image. From a distance, it actually looked smooth – impressionistic, but smooth, you couldn’t see exactly where one photo-fragment ended and another began. At another distance, you got the feeling of jaggedness, as if you were anxious or really needed to pee, just looking at the scene until you could get to the bathroom for your meds/toilet. Up close, you could see the technique and felt the meticulous craft of it. Then at the closest ranges, you could see, finally, that these weren’t just colored pieces of photo paper, but images of, for example, clumps of leaves with just enough detail to tell they are from a tree that has the same shape as the imaged tree.

    She made some great pieces. I couldn’t afford them at the time, but maybe I’ll track her down when I’m the billionaire lawyer-monarch of the universe. Or have my minions track her down. Whatever.

  405. 405
    carlie

    Caine – that’s gorgeous!

  406. 406
    gobi's sockpuppet's meatpuppet

    Caine
    OOH! That’s lovely!
    I cant settle on a style either – I get too excited by the possibility of things.
    At the moment I am just drawing whimsical (I hope) little scenes that make me feel better.
    Just getting back into drawing more as I come out of anxiety/depression.

  407. 407
    Inaji

    Crip Dyke:

    Well, I like neo-impressionism, especially things that are red/orange/gold or that prominently feature purple. It’s the, “I can clearly tell what this is supposed to be, yet it is also clearly an artist picking out details and lines that they choose to create the story/mood they want to tell” that makes it work for me. I want to be in dialog with the artist that way, not merely in dialog with the image – which is possible in really good photography, but that photo-realism (with cameras or a skilled artist) feels like the interaction with the artist is cut off.

    *Love those colours*. Okay, I’ll have a think about that, see what I come up with.

    Carlie and Gobi, oh, thank you! That gave me such a pain, trying to work with the stainless steel, I have half done mandalas littering the studio, all the ones before I got it right.

    Gobi:

    I get too excited by the possibility of things.

    Yep, me too!

  408. 408
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    *Love those colours*. Okay, I’ll have a think about that, see what I come up with.

    I’d be honoured, and I look forward to it.

  409. 409
    Pteryxx

    stainless steel? oooo…. also I see rat heads. >_>

  410. 410
    gobi's sockpuppet's meatpuppet

    For what it is worth here is one of my little drawings:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/fivefotos/9673893689/in/set-72157635388421130
    I am very nervous about putting things up on the web at the moment so I might delete it after a while.
    Just a very simple, rough, pen and wash illustration – if I get a smile when I show it I have got it right :)

  411. 411
    carlie

    It makes me want to go on an adventure! Fly, airship, fly !

  412. 412
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Caine:

    Purty :) I like it a lot.

    Tonight I’m going to start on a mini project. Each of us on the marathon relay team are designing two letters from our team name to compile for a tshirt.

    (is it ok if I call you gobi?)

    I love the drawing! It looks like a page from a whimsical wonderful children’s book.

  413. 413
    carlie

    Oooo, Pixelfish just tweeted a link to Janelle Monae’s new album streaming online, a week ahead of release date! (official, not bootleg)

  414. 414
    The Mellow Monkey

    Based on many appreciated suggestions here, I replaced my detergent, body wash and shampoo recently. I started out very cautiously and have now been able to move up to some products that appear to be safe for me. My hair is still an issue, but I’ve got my clothes covered and have found olive oil soap to be like a magical cure-all for my skin.

    For the first time that I can remember, there isn’t any eczema on my body. It’s enough to make me cry, thinking about all the years I’ve spent in misery and ashamed. I imagine I’ll still have flare ups, but the chronic low-level irritation everywhere my clothes touch me is finally under control.

    My profound thanks to everybody in the Lounge who offered help in that conversation.

  415. 415
    gobi's sockpuppet's meatpuppet

    carlie
    “Fly, airship, fly !”
    Your wish is my command :)
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/fivefotos/9674007059/

    Portia
    “It looks like a page from a whimsical wonderful children’s book”
    Oh, thank you! That is exactly the intent.

  416. 416
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Mellow Monkey:
    I’m so happy for you!
    It’s enough to bring tears to my eyes.

  417. 417
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    You need to illustrate a children’s book. For real.

    TMM:

    Hooray!

  418. 418
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    PZ:
    The link for Thunderdome in the sidebar says it is unmoderated while the commenting rules lists it as lightly moderated. FYI.

  419. 419
    carlie

    Oooo, it does look like an awesome story! I adore that airship. :)

    Mellow Monkey – I’m so glad you’re finding things that work! It’s fantastic how awesome it can feel when your skin feels good.

  420. 420
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Mellow Monkey, great news!
    You can always use body soap on your hair in a pinch.

  421. 421
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    MM
    That’s great to hear.

  422. 422
    gobi's sockpuppet's meatpuppet

    Mellow Monkey
    That is fantastic! (Someone very dear to me suffers from attacks of eczema)

  423. 423
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    MM
    Also, I understand Dr Bronner’s all in one works as a shampoo too, although dry hair may want conditioning.

  424. 424
    thunk: turmite city

    ugh… today is one of the worst depressive days I’ve had in a long long time…

    I just cannot come to grips with getting older at all. uggghhh. I’m barely doing my homework. and walking and talking to people is not helping much.

    (what do you mean, adulthood)

  425. 425
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    thunk
    *hugs*

  426. 426
    thunk: turmite city

    and now I barely know what to do to get out of this. why is contentment so hard?

  427. 427
    John Morales

    thunk:

    why is contentment so hard?

    For mine, it’s not particularly hard to achieve*; what’s hard is maintaining it.

    * Unless one is prone to setting unrealistic expectations.

  428. 428
    cicely

    *hugs* and sympathy for Socio-gen.
    -
    gobi, I like your “little drawing”. It looks like it wants to illustrate a children’s book. Oooh! Or be one of a series of framed prints in a child’s room!
    :)
    -
    *raising glass*
    To No More Eczema!
    -
    *hugs* for thunk. Sorry.
    -

  429. 429
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    caught up a little more.

    Socio-gen:

    Yuck! I’m so sorry : /

  430. 430
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    *hugs* for thunk

  431. 431
    chigau (違う)

    John Morales
    Do you recall thunk’s age?

  432. 432
    Inaji

    Gobi:

    For what it is worth here is one of my little drawings:

    I love it! You’re very talented.

    Pteryxx:

    stainless steel? oooo…. also I see rat heads. >_>

    Yes, it’s set in a square of woven stainless steel. Rat heads? Works for me. ;D

  433. 433
    cicely

    Stainless Steel Rat-heads….
    -

  434. 434
    chigau (違う)

    a good name for a band

  435. 435
    gobi's sockpuppet's meatpuppet

    Caine

    I love it! You’re very talented.

    That is a lovely complement – especially coming from you! It is always nice to hear things like that from people whose work you like and respect. Very encouraging.
    cicely
    I seem to be illustrating a children’s book that hasn’t been written – maybe if I keep going I will discover the story :)
    thunk
    Sorry to hear that. I hope you can push through it.

  436. 436
    chigau (違う)

    For one of those interwebs link clicking reasons, I’m watching old videos of the Smothers Brothers.
    I have a rather harsh, barking laugh and the kitteh has left the room.

  437. 437
    A. Noyd

    thunk (#424)

    and now I barely know what to do to get out of this.

    Well, I can’t offer any immediate solutions, but I have some long term advice:

    One thing that helps is to figure out what you can do when you’re depressed and then set up in advance ways to compensate for what you can’t do. If you spend too much time trying to do what you can’t do while depressed, that period of depression might last longer. But if you have things to compensate set up in advance and you focus on what you can do, then you can get through it faster.

    For instance, I have huge trouble motivating myself to eat, and when I’m depressed it gets lots worse, especially if I have to cook and clean for myself. So I rely on eating out or I stock up on frozen meals and use disposable dishes and utensils to carry me through those times. (I’m fortunate to be able to afford this, but I could always keep my freezer stocked with things I cooked myself if I couldn’t afford it.)

    Also, for the things you can do, set up a schedule that alternates doing necessary things with taking regular breaks and giving yourself a reward of some sort. Even if you feel you don’t deserve the break/reward. If you can’t get that thing done, though, that’s okay. People fail at getting things done all the time. It’s normal. You’ll still get plenty of other stuff done.

    Lastly, with things like homework, figure out what’s most important to your grades and what your teachers’ expectations are. (Meet with them if you have to.) Going beyond a teacher’s expectations is a luxury of your non-depressed periods. If you can’t even meet expectations, then prioritize getting done what’s most important to your grades and forgive yourself for letting the rest slide. If your schoolwork from when you’re not depressed sufficiently impresses your teachers and they’re sympathetic to issues of mental health, they’ll often work with you to recoup some lost credit if you talked with them ahead of time.

    Anyway, hope that helps.

  438. 438
    thunk: turmite city

    Thanks!

    I do feel a bit better now, after talking to other people.
    and I do realise that things I see as objectively bad while depressed usually aren’t.

    and that it will all be fine in the end.

  439. 439
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Thunk:
    Damn. Sorry to hear that. I hope things get better soon.

  440. 440
    yazikus

    Loungers- thanks to you that gave me personal advice on my latest problem. Today I ventured into the fray. I took a placement test to enter college. Along with youngsters, oldsters, and my-age-sters. And fire alarm be-damned, I finished my test. And then I registered for classes.
    -
    And then I went back to work and told my boss. Who said that I should not worry about having a job, they will make it work, as little hours as I need. And benefits will be reassessed, so that part time employees can still have them.
    -
    It was so super scary. And so worth it. I’m going to be a student again and I’m so excited. This time on my own terms.

  441. 441
    mouthyb, Vagina McTits

    If anyone makes the stew or other things, I’d love to know how it went. I have peculiar tastes, and I always fear that what I like is weird.

  442. 442
    lumi

    Is it OK to jump in here without reading everything? Yazikus, I started college when I was 35, and it has been amazing. I actually think I might pin my senior project on differences between “traditional” and “non-traditional” students (I’m a psych major).

    OK, so I am admitting that I want to brag/whine a bit, because I just did my GRE and scored very well and other than a hug from my favorite professor, which was appreciated, nobody seems to care. It’s entirely possible I am just emotionally needy (p=1). Also, it’s causing me to doubt my previous firm decision on my path because I can “do better”.

  443. 443
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    Yazikus
    good to hear.

    lumi
    Congratulations!

  444. 444
    Orange Utan

    Congrats to Yazikus and lumi.

    I’m sort of doing the same thing. Dropped of university in my 20s to try and earn some funds, after several years, end up employed at the same university and eventually at age 37 decided to complete the degree by taking advantage of a very large staff discount.

  445. 445
    lumi

    Dalillama, thank you for realizing what I needed and providing it :) (I’m not being sarcastic, it is nice to get understanding validation)

  446. 446
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    *hugs* for thunk.

    Congrats, yazikus and lumi!

  447. 447
    lumi

    Although I am still faced with the question of: do I get the easy-ish MS in I/O Psych like I planned and go to work in two years or do the long slog through a PhD while I have a child still in elementary school? I feel like people will be disappointed in me if I take the easy path; the better I perform, the more the expectations rise.

  448. 448
    Lynna, OM

    May I have a piece of chocolate for finally figuring out that I’m a monitor?

  449. 449
    chigau (違う)

    Yay lumi!
    Move “people will be disappointed in me” to the very bottom of the list.
    somewhere under cleaning the catbox

  450. 450
    chigau (違う)

    Lynna
    chocolate and a serving of fresh (20 minutes ago) apple sauce

  451. 451
    Lynna, OM

    chigau @450:

    chocolate and a serving of fresh (20 minutes ago) apple sauce

    Ooooh. Ahhhh. That’s tasty. I should be a clueless idiot more often. (Better close my mouth before proceeding, chocolate and applesauce cannot be allowed to escape.)

    Thank you.

  452. 452
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    HI there
    Can I get some hugs?
    Apparently my mobile was stolen when I took #1 to school. I have no fucking clue how they mangaed it, but since it’s been turned off while it was definetly turned on when I left home “stolen” is the most probable solution.
    Why does all the shit always happen at once?

  453. 453
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Giliell,
    *hugs*

  454. 454
    Walton

    *hugs* for Giliell.

  455. 455
    birgerjohansson

    Giliell, it sucks. Hugs, if you want them.

    Over-interpreting the evidence “Proof of Solomon’s mines found in Israel” http://phys.org/news/2013-09-proof-solomon-israel.html
    My take is that local king Big Cheese -who was contemporary with imaginary superheroes like Achilles and Solomon- had a copper mine constructed 3000 years ago, in the territory that later featured in Yahwh fanfiction written around the time of the Babylonian captivity.

  456. 456
    Inaji

    Hugs of commiseration, Giliell.

    Hugs of happiness, MM.

  457. 457
    birgerjohansson

    @ 307 “I bet it was demons that made the label like that”

    Hmm …in antiquity, spirits were called “daimons”(as distinct from gods). Early Xians said the pagan gods were merely spirits, daimons, and Zod was the only true god. Later during the middle ages there was a retcon and now all non-Zod-approved spirits were assumed to be from hell. This is where “demon” comes from.

    I find this slanderous. Bacchus and Thor could get a bit unruly once they got a couple of gallons under the belt, but generally not worse that Homer Simpson.

  458. 458
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    Ouch, Giliell. I’m sorry.

    Conga Rats to Lumi & Yazikus.

    Lumi – can you take the MS without leaving the program? I have a friend who did a PhD in psych and getting a master’s along the way was just a matter of cranking out an extra paper on the same topic that eventually constituted her thesis.

    Also, working at IBM as a management consultant telling them which of the programmers can lead a programming group or how cubicles can be rearranged to increase productivity can pay okay, and isn’t as triggering as doing clinical work, but p=1 that you’ll want to do more than that before your career is over.

    You’ll have to determine the probability that needing to do something else will occur in the short term (and thus require staying in the program) or the longer term (which would allow establishing a career and going back when you have an income)

  459. 459
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Thanks all around
    In line with Murphy’s law, theft is the only thing my insurance does not cover (I bought extra insurance because I’m clumsy and have monster-kids). If I’d broken it by accidentially stepping onto it last week everything would have been fine…

    +++
    MM
    Congarats
    Oh, it reminds me of something: Have you looked into baby-shampoo? There are often perume and stuff free baby shampoos

  460. 460
    Kevin, Youhao Huo Mao

    *hugs* to Thunk and Gilliel.

  461. 461
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    I have a comment in moderation over at Brute Reason. Almost certainly because I referred to a book that the subject of the OP wrote by title.

    It is a deeply silly book, whose title is a vulgar slang term for a vulva. Bio-essentialist (“our genitals are what make us women!”), woo-y nonsense dressed up with questionable grammar, random anecdotes, and a valid point here or there.

  462. 462
    dianne

    Many hugs to giliell.

  463. 463
    lumi

    Oh, that sucks, Gilleil.

  464. 464
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    That isn’t a book by someone named Inga, is it? From the late 90s, if I recall?

    And what is it with that cover? A gerbera daisy when they could have used an orchid? Or at least an artfully-positioned iris?

  465. 465
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    Ooops, not very fast, was I.

    My 464 was intended for Esteleth @ 461

  466. 466
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    That’s the one, Crip Dyke.

    There’s a cogent point or two in there, but it is awfully buried.

  467. 467
    The Mellow Monkey

    Giliell

    Oh, it reminds me of something: Have you looked into baby-shampoo? There are often perume and stuff free baby shampoos

    I haven’t. I’ll have to get a list of ingredients, as I believe one of the things causing me discomfort with shampoo is that most of them here use coconut oil. This is also why Dr Bronner’s won’t work for me, because they switched from olive oil to coconut a while back. For now, I’ve been using baking soda and vinegar. Mm, I smell like salad dressing.

    Sorry about your phone. :/

  468. 468
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    Star Wars speed play

  469. 469
    birgerjohansson

    A very therapeutic film experience:
    “God Bless America” with Joel Murray

    Blam!
    — — — — —
    Obama finally buggered off from Sweden.
    I have not more against him than against most other US presidents, but jeez, the visit cost LOTS of money and closed down cross-town traffic all over Stockholm.
    — — — — —
    Is Cow Tipping Real? Physics says you’d have more luck tipping a Camry. http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2013/09/cow_tipping_fake_debunking_a_persistent_rural_legend.html
    — — — — —
    Conspiracy theories: the science behind belief in secret plots http://www.theguardian.com/science/brain-flapping/2013/sep/05/conspiracy-theories-science-belief-secret-plots
    — — — — —
    -And when speaking of conspiracies…
    ” North Dakota ‘White Separatist’: Jews created the word ‘gay’ to keep white people down” http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/09/04/north-dakota-white-separatist-jews-created-the-word-gay-to-keep-white-people-down/
    — — — — —
    ‘Ask a Slave’ Makes Depressingly Stupid Tourist Questions Hilarious http://jezebel.com/ask-a-slave-makes-depressingly-stupid-tourist-questio-1245431236

  470. 470
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    Giliell
    Ouch, that sucks, especially about the insurance; back when I used to sell them, the insurance we offered came in two parts: went missing and got broken. The precise means by which this occurred was usually irrelevant.

    MM

    This is also why Dr Bronner’s won’t work for me, because they switched from olive oil to coconut a while back.

    They WHAT!??!? Fucking hell, now I’ve got to stop recommending it to people. Also, they need to be made to stop calling it Castile soap, which specifically requires that it be made with olive oil.

  471. 471
    ambulocetacean

    Hi Caine,

    I’m surprised and chuffed that you remembered me after all these years. I hope you’ve been well. I still read the blog fairly frequently but I almost never comment. Mostly because whatever it is that I might have to say has almost always already been said by others.

    But I’ve been admiring your tenacity from afar. As I know from my own experience with your good self, you do a fine and valuable job of acquainting well-meaning oafs with certain important realities.

    It’s almost 1am here in Oz, so I’d better hit the old fart sack (is that something you say in the States?). G’nite.

  472. 472
    Walton

    Ugh. Tony Abbott is a genuinely terrible person. His open, sneering contempt for asylum-seekers and other socially marginalized people is very disturbing. I’m feeling sad about the Australian election, and I’m not even Australian. I’m really hoping the Greens pick up some more seats.

  473. 473
    Inaji

    Ambulocetacean:

    I’m surprised and chuffed that you remembered me after all these years. I hope you’ve been well. I still read the blog fairly frequently but I almost never comment. Mostly because whatever it is that I might have to say has almost always already been said by others.

    I always loved reading your posts. I’ve missed you.

    But I’ve been admiring your tenacity from afar. As I know from my own experience with your good self, you do a fine and valuable job of acquainting well-meaning oafs with certain important realities.

    It’s almost 1am here in Oz, so I’d better hit the old fart sack (is that something you say in the States?). G’nite.

    Aaw, thank you. Fart sack? Yep, I have heard that before, and used it, for good reason. :D

  474. 474
    CaitieCat, getaway driver

    Lounge as a whole, all the wee Hordelings:

    君がいれば幸せ。

    Just sayin’. :)

  475. 475
    mouthyb, Vagina McTits

    Okay the guacamole burger from Carl’s Jr is utterly, utterly disgusting, even after I scraped the buns and cheese and bacon off (it was gross before, too). It’s not guacamole if it has fucking mayonnaise in it, people. And if it’s a spicy sauce, for the love of Santa, it should be spicy and/or taste like peppers.

    *grumble, grumble*

  476. 476
    mouthyb, Vagina McTits

    And, in apparent burger-fueled rage: MAYO IS NOT A BURGER TOPPING. IT IS FOR TUNA SALAD, NOT THINGS WITH BEEF.

    *pant pant*

    I take food seriously.

  477. 477
    cicely

    yazikus:

    . Today I ventured into the fray. I took a placement test to enter college. Along with youngsters, oldsters, and my-age-sters. And fire alarm be-damned, I finished my test. And then I registered for classes.

    *high five*
    Way to go!
     

    And then I went back to work and told my boss. Who said that I should not worry about having a job, they will make it work, as little hours as I need. And benefits will be reassessed, so that part time employees can still have them.

    Awesome!
    -
    Congrats to lumi!
    -
    *chocolate* for Lynna.
    Oh, I know that chigau has already got it covered, but what’s wrong with having Extra Chocolate?
    :)
    -
    *hugs* for Giliell. I’m sorry about your mobile.
    -

  478. 478
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    yazikus:

    Good for you!!! I’m so glad you did it.

    lumi:
    That’s so wonderful! Congrats!

    Giliell:
    Damn damn double damn. I’m so sorry. : ( Any chance the policy covers loss? Probably not…you’d have thought of that.

    *hugs* all around

  479. 479
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Folks, I have a Horde signal to raise. CaitieCat needs our help. Due to a confluence of events outside her control, including mental health challenges, and family alienation resulting from her status as a trans* person, she is in need of our financial assistance. she can’t get her meds right now because they’re $400 a month without the employment insurance that has lapsed (but will be reinstated soon) and that along with some other trouble has caused her to be unable to pay rent. She is willing to take help in the form of loans if that works best for anyone, but can’t promise a particular payback date. CaiteCat has fit right in here, and is already a valuable member of the community, in my opinion.

    Cait’s financial straits are temporary, given that she’s waiting on a couple of different applications for assistance to come through, but she needs help now. If you’re inclined to help, you can email me at bravoportia at g mail dot com or CaitieCat at [email protected]. That email address will also connect you to her paypal. I’m willing to be a snailmail recipient if that would help anyone in helping. Thanks for listening, I’m gonna repost this later when a different time zone is awake and about.

  480. 480
    thunk: turmite city

    Dear Horde,

    thanks a lot. your tenacity and ability to thrive in less-than-ideal situations is making me feel more hopeful.

    It helps (a bit)

  481. 481
    mouthyb, Vagina McTits

    Portia: Sent directly to CaitieCat.

    I’m vastly amused by the idea of a horde signal, like a giant tentacled monstrosity in silhouette all over the world.

  482. 482
    Lynna, OM

    cicely @477:

    *chocolate* for Lynna.
    Oh, I know that chigau has already got it covered, but what’s wrong with having Extra Chocolate?
    :)

    Thank you. Thank you. There is no such thing as “Extra” chocolate. It’s all necessary.

    And now on to less pleasant news: Halifax, Canada recently erupted in what seems to be a traditional spate of Ugly — or at least some of the college students there chanted stuff better left in the dark ages. Trigger warning for rape culture evidence.

    Student orientation leaders at Saint Mary’s University in Halifax will undergo sensitivity training after some of them were captured on video chanting about non-consensual sex with underage girls.

    In the video taken during frosh week activities and posted on Instagram, both male and female student leaders can be seen taking part in what a university spokesperson called a “sexist and offensive” chant.

    “SMU boys, we like them young,” the students can be heard singing at the start of the video. ….

    Video at the link: http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/frosh-chant-about-underage-sex-at-halifax-university-captured-on-video-1.1440826

    Here’s the complete chant: SMU boys, we like them young. Y is for your sister. O is for oh so tight. U is for underage. N is for no consent. G is for grab that ass.

    Somebody inform those students that they exhibited Stupidity.

  483. 483
    Lynna, OM

    A few weeks ago some of my favorite news sources were providing details on a directive from the Department of Defense that made me smile. The DOD quite rightly told all of the people under its control to recognize same-sex marriages when it came to distributing benefits.

    I should have known that some right-wing bigots would find a way to keep this directive from being implemented.

    The Texas National Guard refused to process requests from same-sex couples for benefits on Tuesday despite a Pentagon directive to do so, while Mississippi won’t issue applications from state-owned offices. Both states cited their respective bans on gay marriage.

    Tuesday was the first working day that gays in the military could apply for benefits after the Pentagon announced it would recognize same-sex marriages. The Department of Defense had announced that it would recognize same-sex marriages performed in states where they are legal following the U.S. Supreme Court decision that threw out parts of the Defense of Marriage Act.

    Texas and Mississippi appeared to be the only two states limiting how and where same-sex spouses of National Guard members could register for identification cards and benefits, according to an Associated Press tally. Officials in 13 other states that also ban gay marriage — including Arizona, Oklahoma, Florida, Michigan and Georgia — said Tuesday that they will follow federal law and process all couples applying for benefits the same. …

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/world/56820892-68/state-texas-benefits-guard.html.csp

  484. 484
    SQB

    Wait, Portia, if you’re a lawyer too, is your nym from The Merchant of Venice?

    While the ratio of female cars to male ones was completely off in the movie Cars, I did like that they made Sally, who is a lawyer, a Porsche.

    —-

    On knit animals, we bought two last week at a fair. One was a dolphin my youngest wanted, the other was a cute chicken knitting herself.‡ Looked like she came right out of Chicken Run.

    ‡ Not herself, but just knitting as well.

  485. 485
    Lynna, OM

    Oh, good lawd. Republicans are putting their worst face forward when it comes to explaining why it is a good thing to take food stamps and other federal assistance away from poor people.


    the New York Times reports today from Dyerburg, Tenn., where reporter Sheryl Gay Stolberg talked to some low-income locals in dire straits. A struggling mechanic hunts doves and squirrels to help feed his family, and limits himself to one meal a day. A woman who left her job skinning hogs at a slaughterhouse when she became ill with cancer also said she only eats once a day.

    And then there’s their congressman, Rep. Stephen Fincher (R-Tenn.), who’s eager to make their lives much more difficult.

    The role of citizens, of Christianity, of humanity, is to take care of each other, not for Washington to steal from those in the country and give to others in the country,” Mr. Fincher, whose office did not respond to interview requests, said after his vote in May. In response to a Democrat who invoked the Bible during the food stamp debate in Congress, Mr. Fincher cited his own biblical phrase. “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat,” he said.

    Let’s unpack this a bit, because I think it’s important. First, “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat” referred to ancient Christians who had stopped working in anticipation of Jesus’ Second Coming, not lazy people.

    Second, Fincher’s constituents who are struggling to get by aren’t “unwilling to work”; many of them do work. They nevertheless need to rely on a public safety net to continue to eat their once-a-day meal.

    And third, Fincher collected nearly $3.5 million in taxpayer-financed farm subsidies from 1999 to 2012, including roughly $70,000 just last year in the form of direct payments from Washington, paid for by you and me…..

    http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/09/05/20343586-the-wrong-republican-to-talk-about-food-stamps

  486. 486
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    So, a recently published article in Science (talked up by the NYTimes) is another evidence set that intestinal flora play a major role in metabolism and obesity.

    Prediction: people going on about how obesity is a matter of personal responsibility will be moved by this not a whit.

    That is, until such time that they start demanding that fat people “take responsibility” and submit to fecal transplants.

  487. 487
    yazikus

    Thanks everyone for the support. I’m still a bit in shock! Work is going to be awkward for a while. My orientation is next Tuesday, so that should be fun. But, back to work for now. Must not be distracted.

  488. 488
    Inaji

    Sent to CaitieCat.

    Thunk, all the love. We have your back, know that.

  489. 489
    Inaji

    Mouthyb:

    I’m vastly amused by the idea of a horde signal, like a giant tentacled monstrosity in silhouette all over the world.

    That’s what it is, basically. It’s been operating some years now. It’s a good monstrosity. :D

  490. 490
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    So I totally posted something pensive over in TDome that I totally meant to post here.

    Rather than recreate it, I’ll just link to it.

  491. 491
    mouthyb, Vagina McTits

    What’s that up in the sky? It’s a betentacled monstrosity, there to help with yer problems (and potentially be rude to you if you suck.)

    Caine, it’s always nice to see that someone else has an oddly visual (and sometimes literal) imagination!

  492. 492
    The Mellow Monkey

    Esteleth, there is a type of sharp cheddar cheese that is made with a process that was patented by Edward William C**n. (Is this in the slur filter?) This cheese is allegedly named after him, giving them a convenient excuse to use his surname. I’m not defending the name by any means because holy crap, but if it’s the cheese you’re thinking of then perhaps these origins can give you some small measure of solace regarding your great-grandfather.

  493. 493
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    MM
    Per the Wikipedia entry, there appears to be no patent record for any such person or process, casting some doubt on that story.

  494. 494
    The Mellow Monkey

    Dalillama, the patent.

    The name is inappropriate for a product, but a patent was filed by a man with that name.

  495. 495
    gobi's sockpuppet's meatpuppet

    Hello Lounge people :)
    RE that cheese:
    It pretty much dominates here in Oz. If I wanted to get pre-sliced Swiss cheese from our local supermarket it is the only choice. I buy the more expensive jarlesberg… well, just because.
     
    RE how people ‘appear’:
    (I know this was a T-Dome discussion but I am not feeling that safe today – even with the departure of you-know-who)
    I don’t ‘see’ anyone here when I read their words, but I get an emotional reaction like a sound, or the feel of a fabric. Weird for a visual designer, no?
    I doubt I have been commenting here long enough to give any impressions of me…

  496. 496
    mouthyb, Vagina McTits

    I get pictures and symbols, myself.

    For the obvious reasons, I persist in picturing Caine as a bespectacled rat, sometimes in a waistcoat and sometimes in a shawl.

  497. 497
    gobi's sockpuppet's meatpuppet

    mouthyb
    Aaah… but what kind of spectacles? Round ones? Horn rimmed?

    :)

  498. 498
    mouthyb, Vagina McTits

    Wire rimmed, gold and round, with the habit of sliding down her nose so that she can look at you over their tops and flick a pink ear.

    Fun fact: When I was a kid, if anyone used an animal to describe someone in a book (eg wolfish), I pictured them with an animal head. I was bitterly disappointed to find out they were fully human.

  499. 499
    Inaji

    Mouthyb:

    For the obvious reasons, I persist in picturing Caine as a bespectacled rat, sometimes in a waistcoat and sometimes in a shawl.

    You have no idea how much that delights me. As long as Caine Rat is wearing red. Sometimes purple, but red is essential. Caine Rat is hanging out in a nice red robe right now. :D

    You’re one of the people here who is a tree. Quite a few people here are trees to me, different ones, of course. You’re a Plum tree, well grown, lithe, strong, leaves that amazing violet/purple/burgundy shade, which go critically awesome when the sun shines through them, holding warmth and light, spreading generosity, and always fruitful.

  500. 500
    Inaji

    Mouthyb:

    Wire rimmed, gold and round, with the habit of sliding down her nose so that she can look at you over their tops and flick a pink ear.

    That’s about right, but enameled wire, red, natch.

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