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I am so tempted to visit Fargo Grand Forks next week

I’ve been informed that there will be a lecture at UND next Tuesday. I might be able to find time to dart up and come right back home that night…it’s only about a two hour drive.

BoysFlyer

I’ve heard of Boys before. It’s going to be ugly. There he is, not only attacking atheism, but doing so as a young earth creationist who rejects evolution. But also because Boys had his moment of infamy about 5 years ago. Anyone else remember this? He’s the guy who urged Bush to nuke Mecca and Medina.

Do we sit on our fat bottoms, wring our hands, and wait for Muslim terrorists to strike? What good will that do? What good will result in doing nothing until one or two major cities are in rubble? My suggestion is take offensive action. The only possible way I can see that we might, I say might, escape another Muslim attack upon our nation is for President Bush to issue the following declaration to the world:

“My fellow Americans, as your President my primary responsibility is to protect and defend the U.S. I am not interested in world opinion or in playing games at the UN. Our intelligence reveals that Muslim terrorists are planning to hit us again; furthermore, terrorist leaders have promised that our cities will be in ruins. I believe them so I have been authorized by the Congress to make the following promise: Within 24 hours following an attack upon the U.S., our Air Force will bomb Mecca and Medina into the “Stone Age.” Innocent Saudi Arabian civilians will have 24 hours from the attack on us to flee the two cities that will be razed.

“Let no one be deceived as to our motive. We don’t want to harm any person nor do we desire any territory, and there is no reason for anyone to be killed—as long as there is no attack against our nation. This decision was made to protect U.S. citizens; however, if there is a choice between us and them, it will be them who die. Moreover, Muslim leaders will be the ones who pull the trigger on their own people. If Muslim leaders want to destroy their two holy cities, then they will do so by attacking us. We will respond in 24 hours. May God protect and bless America.”

Stupid to the point of evil, that’s Don Boys. And he’s being sponsored by Baptist Campus Ministries, which claims to be bringing “honor and glory to the Lord Jesus Christ through Bible-based thoughts, words, and actions”.

Honor and glory.

Fuck your honor and glory, Christians.

My New Atheist agenda is to murder fewer people, not more.

Comments

  1. says

    I think this sounds like a good event to go to. I doubt he would expect many new atheists to actually show up to this thing, especially someone as well known as PZ. This brand of evil needs to be shown for what it is.

  2. says

    This decision was made to protect U.S. citizens; however, if there is a choice between us and them, it will be them who die. Moreover, Muslim leaders will be the ones who pull the trigger on their own people. If Muslim leaders want to destroy their two holy cities, then they will do so by attacking us. We will respond in 24 hours. May God protect and bless America.”

    Wow. Now there’s a soul mate for StevoR.

  3. raven says

    Not only is Don Boys a homicidal maniac, he is an idiot.

    Suppose Moslems from Pakistan, Indonesia, Nigeria, or Bangladesh attack the USA in some way?

    How is nuking Medina and Mecca going to harm them or matter to them?

    This is not a theoretical possibility. The last two Moslems to attack the USA were from…Russia, Checkens from Checknya in Boston.

    He is lumping all 1.4 billion Moslems together as a collective, monolithic whole. Meanwhile in Reality-land, the Moslems are fighting among themselves in Afghanistan, Somalia, Turkey, Egypt, Pakistan, and Syria.

  4. kreativekaos says

    PZ, if you can swing it, please attend and report back; would love to hear what they’re up to, and also have a voice of resistance, reason and truth present.

  5. raven says

    The poster says he is a former Indiana state representative.

    Has anything good ever happened in Indiana?

    Besides Ball State teaching creationism in their astronomy courses?

  6. raven says

    I can’t see why PZ Myers would go.

    It isn’t like they are going to let him speak up. Waste of time.

    I’m sure Boys will just lie and they will be amusing lies in a perverted, sick sort of way. Routine fundie evil.

    Fundies are ugly and the uglier they get, the more atheists they are. New atheism has a powerful tail wind and it is them. When xian became synonymous with hater, liar, idiot, crazy, ignorant, and killer, a lot of people didn’t want to be one any more. Including me.

  7. Gregory Greenwood says

    A christian apologist challenges new Atheists to put or shut up

    By the sound of his murderous postering with regard to retaliating to terrorism by the mass murder of innocent people (24 hours isn’t even close to a realistic timescale within which to effect a meaningful mass evacuation of a city, so what he advocates would inevitably lead to thousands of civilian deaths), I think what he really wants to say is “a christian apologist demands that new atheists shut up, or else”.

    Not just a liar for jeebus, but a would-be genocidal monster for jeebus. Since he is so eager to endorse responding to those he views as his enemies with utterly disporportional lethal force, I don’t doubt for a moment that if he had the power to enact a pogrom to wipe out anyone who wasn’t his specific flavour of xian, then he would do it without a second thought.

    Unfortunately, dominionist fundies who think like him are not all that rare.

  8. justawriter says

    Better reprogram the GPS, PZ. UND is the hockey team the University is trying to live up to in Grand Forks. NDSU is the football team in Fargo.

  9. unbound says

    justawriter beat me to it. PZ, you’ve lived right next door to North Dakota long enough to know that NDSU is Fargo and UND is Grand Forks. An extra hour driving time for you to get to UND.

  10. darwinharmless says

    Go. Let us all know if you need us to chip in on your air fare. I’m close to broke, but not broke enough that I can’t help to send you to Fargo.

  11. Rob Grigjanis says

    Caine @2:

    Now there’s a soul mate for StevoR.

    StevoR seemed closer in spirit to Sam Harris and the late Hitchens.

  12. Anthony K says

    Go. Let us all know if you need us to chip in on your air fare. I’m close to broke, but not broke enough that I can’t help to send you to Fargo.

    I’ll chip in if PZ uses the money to hire Steve Buscemi and Peter Stormare to go in his stead.

  13. qwerty says

    From his preface:

    “If one of the critics is a known drunk, fornicator, homosexual or whatever, I don’t hide that information.”

    Oh, oh, he’ll point out the fact that you are a well known cracker stabber.

  14. René says

    @4

    The last two Moslems to attack the USA were from…Russia, Checkens from Checknya in Boston.

    Wow, this coming from a respected hordling, I am sore from(?, I’m a non-native to the lingo) Raven’s knowledge of geography and history. Xe didn’t checken wiki, now did xe? I’m not even sure ‘Moslem’ is a lemma in an English dictionary.

  15. says

    Sounded interesting when I heard about the talk. But then I generally do not attend shows of tomfoolery.

    PS: Although I would love to hear you talk at the NDSU, please do not come to Fargo for this talk, you will be 70 miles away from the intended target.

  16. Trebuchet says

    Still only 3 hours from Morris to Grand Forks, according to Google Maps. Undoubtedly faster than flying, which at best would mean an hour at an airport, flight from Morris to Fargo, another hour at an airport, flight from Fargo to Grand Forks, find a car, etc., etc.

    That’s assuming there’s any commercial flying from Morris at all, which I doubt.

    PZ should definitely go. As should students from NDSU. It’d be interesting to see someone challenge him and his sponsors on his hate speech.

  17. Doug Little says

    What do we need to nuke if it’s christian terrorists that are going to hit the US?

  18. Brother Yam says

    I’ll chip in if PZ uses the money to hire Steve Buscemi and Peter Stormare to go in his stead.

    So, that’d be your partner in the chipper-shredder, then?

  19. timberwoof says

    PZ, bring a friend with an iPod or other small video camera. When you are recognized by the security guy who then tries to Expel you, record the encounter and post it on YouTube.

    I’d be tempted to make a Poe “Friendly Picket” with posters of quotes of this jackass promoting nuking Mecca and Medina. Chat up the cops, tell them I think the guy has some interesting proposals and want to help him publicize them. I’d also hand out hand-outs that describe what he proposed and all its implications.

  20. Doug Little says

    I’ll chip in if PZ uses the money to hire Steve Buscemi and Peter Stormare to go in his stead.

    Hell, I’ll cover the wood chipper.

  21. says

    What an idiotic, dick-swinging challenge. Atheists — New and Old — have been “putting up” since the days of Ingersoll; hell since Hume and Voltaire (to confine ourselves to just the modern era, and Christendom). And this swaggering chest-thumping fool wants to issue school-yard level challenges like none of that ever happened.

    I’m assuming this is the same guy: http://www.amazon.com/Donald-Boys/e/B001K7UATI (for those who don’t want to click through, his previous publications include a Y2K alarmist book). Kook indeed.

  22. gussnarp says

    Anybody know what his PhD is in? All I could find is that it’s from Heritage Baptist University. I’m pretty sure that no one actually puts PhD after their name in things like this whose actually earned a real PhD from an accredited graduate school.

    I want you to go and trash him, PZ, just to see what this second rate apologist does to someone who’s prepared to deal with him. On the other hand, good for his CV, not so much for yours. I also expect that he will tightly control the event to insure that you don’t actually get a chance to provide a real response.

  23. fernando says

    “My New Atheist agenda is to murder fewer people, not more.”

    Hope this is some kind of typo PZ.
    I think that one of our objectives is making people stop killing others for insignificant matters such the “my god is better thaan your god” or for natural resources, and not to “simply” murder fewer people.
    That make us seem slightly better than evil religious fanatics, and that isn`t good enough.

    PS: english isn`t my language, if i make some kind of mistake interpreting the phrase in the top of this post, sorry!

  24. Jeff D says

    In repy to raven (#6), Don Boys (an alumnus of Moody Bible College, and it goes further downhill from there) was an Indiana State Representative for some indeterminate time that ended before 2005, possibly in the 1970s. Yet his bio still trumpets his past “experience” as a legislator, one whom the “media” labeled as the most conservative member of the Indiana General Assembly.

    My office is about a block from the Indiana State House, and I have frequently testified before legislative committees. I don’t remember ever hearing or reading about Don Boys until today, so he did not leave much of a mark in terms of proposed or enacted legislation. I am somewhat consoled by the fact that Boys was born in West Virginia and now lives in Georgia, close to Chattanooga, Tennessee. Not a native Hoosier.

    Here in the Hoosier State, the bar is set pretty low with respect to what sorts of kooks can be elected to the Indiana House. Perhaps there is a de facto quota that I don’t know about, limiting the number of young-earth creationists or fundagelical wackos who are serving in the legislature at any given time. Currently, the fundagelical flag is being proudly waved primarily by Dennis Kruse, a State Senator from northeastern Indiana; Kruse has been extremely active in sponsoring school prayer bills and creationism / balanced treatment bills that he knows had no chance of making it to the Senate floor.

    Some good things do happen in Indiana. Ball State U’s president issued a very good letter labeling creationism and I.D. as having no place in the science curriculum, and essentially telling Prof. Eric Hedin that he will have to redesign his course and/or move it to the department that handles the comparative religion courses.

  25. raven says

    Xe didn’t checken wiki, now did xe?

    No, not that it matters. Chicken, oops, I mean Chechnya is an obscure place for us. We only hear about it when something horrible happens.

    Much like our state of…Indiana where Don Boys was once an elected official.

    chech·ny·a
    A republic in southwestern Russia; pop. 1,290,000; capital, Grozny. The republic declared itself independent of Russia in 1991 and was…

    PS: I must be out of touch with what is happening in Indiana and Grand Forks, ND. Then again, I was never in touch with their culture anyway and it has been for the best.

  26. Anthony K says

    Chicken, oops, I mean Chechnya is an obscure place for us. We only hear about it when something horrible happens.

    And Fargo is different how?

  27. Pete Newell says

    raven@4, if you mean the Boston Marothon bombing, that was, um, two guys from Boston. Who were pretty thoroughly extracted from Chechnya, maybe, but so what? Isn’t that how immigration works?

    And the “attacking America” part was pretty much a convenient narrative, that walked right on by the home-grown “let’s blow something up” American nihilism it seems to have been.

    And this whole line of argument? Is somewhat peripheral.

    I bet Boyd would love to talk about this forever rather than face up to just how stupidly you have to argue to get a reading of science that has it rejecting evolutionary theory, or a reading of Biblical mythology that involves the word “real” without the prefix “un”, or a response to terrorism that involves massive, misdirected misuse of military force.

    Sadly, stupid is pretty damned common in some circles. (not referring to you, raven, lest that isn’t clear.)

    Jumping Jiminy I hate these guys. Personally. Each and every one of them. When the hell did this level of stupid become the political mainstream? And how can we get rid of it?

  28. sethmassine says

    Yes…I mean, what could be MORE scientific than the bible, right? All disease, torture, cancer, murder, rape, entropy, suffering, homophobia, misogyny, famine, etc. a direct result of a couple naked people taking the advice of a flying, talking snake and biting from that Evil Fruit ™. Now THAT is science! And all this time, hard working scientists all over the globe have just been lying to us…because….SATAN! Wow. Now I need to get drunk again.

  29. aziraphale says

    To be fair to the man (somebody has to!) it is an absolute religious duty for Muslims to make the pilgrimage to Mecca at least once in their lifetime. I imagine his threat would actually be a deterrent to some Muslims, even those living in Chechnya. And isn’t it morally preferable to the policy of mutually assured destruction that we had in relation to the Soviet Union, not that long ago?

  30. aziraphale says

    PS. I should also confess that some such thought crossed my mind when I heard of 9/11.

  31. tfkreference says

    Bringing strawmen to North Dakota is like bringing coals to Newcastle, even if they are figurative.

  32. janewhite says

    I wish this man understood that he has far more in common with those radical terrorist imams he despises than he does with most of the Christians I know.

  33. microraptor says

    Has anything good ever happened in Indiana?

    Well, GenCon happens in Indianapolis every summer.

  34. robro says

    If he knew anything about Islam, he would know that no harm could come to Kaaba. Just as the White Elephants of Arbaha refused to enter the city and destroy the Kaaba, I’m sure the bombs would just fly off into heaven. That was in the Year of the Elephant, the year Mohammad was supposedly born.

  35. robro says

    Oddly I see no ticket price on that poster. I’m sure he does this for money, so let me guess…donations are gladly accepted. They’re so much harder to tax.

  36. No One says

    I won’t even begin to ponder what the backlash to Don Boys military solution would be. Dose he think that a billion or so muslims wouldn’t retaliate? Over the next ten centuries? What complete fucking tool.

  37. grumpyoldfart says

    This from 2011 at his news site:

    “If and when any Muslim nation or Muslim group attacks the U.S.. (excepting obvious small, independent, maverick attacks) U.S. bombers will immediately fly, at my command, to Saudi Arabia and bomb the two holy cities of Mecca and Medina. However, our payload will be pig’s entrails, discarded hog meat, and tons of pig dung (provided enthusiastically by pig farmers in Iowa) that will saturate both cities from city limit to city limit. The land, buildings, and any people there will be totally contaminated.
    http://www.cstnews.com/bm/issues-facing-christians-today-common-sense-for-today/terrorism-and-common-sense-for-today/drop-pig-poop-on-mecca-if-america-is-attacked.shtml

    At the bottom of the article he says that Baptists will clean up the mess if the Muslims pay $1,000 per shovelful.

  38. rogerfirth says

    Heh. Nearest airport to Morris is…Fargo.

    What about Charlie Schmidt field about 2 miles to the southwest? They’ve got a 4000 ft runway — plenty long to land a 737.

    Of course, to get out of there you may have to do it on fumes, and remove the seats, and galleys, and toilets, and wait for a good headwind…

  39. yoav says

    “honor and glory to the Lord Jesus Christ through Bible-based thoughts, words, and actions”.

    Nuking a bunch of innocent people just to make a point (and fluff your fragile ego), that’s biblegod to a t.

  40. laurentweppe says

    He’s the guy who urged Bush to nuke Mecca and Medina.

    led to

    Now there’s a soul mate for StevoR

    which was answered by

    StevoR seemed closer in spirit to Sam Harris and the late Hitchens.

    When it comes to Sectarian Supremacists with a nuke fetish, the similarites in their supremacism outweight by far their sectarian differences

  41. says

    A Ph.D. from Heritage Baptist University , Boys has. @muslimfact on twitter, Boys tweets.

    Boggle, the mind does. Reward so much idiocy with debating him, we should not.

  42. playonwords says

    He wants the publicity and he wants atheist “disruption”. You need to get him off his prepared ground.

  43. hexidecima says

    good to see that even his poster is a lie. Poor TrueChristians, they just never ever have a chance to spread their nonsense. Except on radio stations all over the country, the dozen and more Christian channels on my cable network, etc etc.