Comments

  1. firstapproximation says

    PZ (previous thread),

    Also, Steve Pinker has a rebuttal to my dismissal of evolutionary psychology on Coyne’s blog. It’s awful.

    Was going to ask about that.

    Our brains are products of evolution and it’d be interesting to know about implications that has. However, a lot of what I’ve seen of evolutionary psychology has been just-so stories and pseudoscience used to explain cultural stereotypes. Of course, none of that means there isn’t good evolutionary psychology work being done out there. If there is, it would be interesting to hear it. Coyne in fact asked Pinker what accomplishment the field has produced, but Pinker was quite vague:

    On accomplishments – there are vast numbers of topics in psychology that were barely studied before EP came along, and in which you just can’t formulate sensible hypotheses without giving some thought to function – they’d include sexuality, violence, religion, beauty, play, emotions, and parenting. Even other areas, like perception and memory, have always been evolutionary in the sense that researchers had a vague idea about “function” – the difference being that common-sense is enough when it comes to seeing in 3D, whereas you need to give some more thought to function in the case of, say, beauty.

    Anyway, look forward to PZ’s response.

  2. chigau (違う) says

    For some reason I just read “Comments have been disabled” as “Cornfield has been disabled”.
    That’s good!

  3. says

    HI there
    Now, if this oral expression exam isn’t at least a good B I don’t know what is…

    +++
    Also, did I mention before that I primarily recognize people here by their avatar?
    So I kept wondering who that Kevin-Kat person is whom everybody talks to but whose posts I don’t see…

  4. says

    From previous thread:

    given that ‘African American’ is preferred to ‘black’, what term is used in place of ‘whites’?

    European-American is commonly used, although the term is not perfect.

  5. rq says

    Challenge: Anybody want to borrow three fine, upstanding young children (ages 1 to just-about-6) for two to three days of exercise, ingenuity and other shenanigans? I would like them back eventually, but they’re making me feel incapable and slow right now. Not to mention just a little bit annoyed.

  6. says

    Well, I posted a draft of a poem here a few years ago, and I wanted to say now that it finally got published. It’s my contribution to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything:

    SUNT ALIQUID MANES

    The dead are something, I have heard; but I
    Could never make them speak. One day, I walked
    Out to the park near my apartment. There,
    A black path through the stripped and sodden trees
    Somehow compelled a thought of her, and I
    Almost believed that she and not her absence
    Walked with me. I have returned to say
    It was not so—though I walked all that day.

    (journalformalpoetry.com/_archive/_pdfFiles/Spring%2013.pdf)

    Criticism, even of the most savage kind, is appreciated. (I’d have posted it on Thunderdome, but I couldn’t find the latest one.)

  7. chigau (違う) says

    aaronbaker
    look on the sidebar just above PZ’s picture for a link to The Thunderdome.

  8. firstapproximation says

    William Lane Craig on evolution,

    So, I ask, where is the evidence for the extraordinary extrapolation the current paradigm involves? Michael Behe says that “the evidence for common descent seems compelling,” but “. . . except at life’s periphery the evidence for a pivotal role for random mutations is terrible.” Now if he’s wrong about this, then what is the evidence? I’m genuinely open to it. But what is it? When I, as an objective observer, look at the evidence, it seems to me that we haven’t been shown any good reason to think that the neo-Darwinian mechanisms are sufficient to explain the evolution of the extraordinary diversity of life that we see on this planet during the time available.

    Objective observer? You make a living defending Christianity.

    As for evidence for common descent, look at biochemistry and genetics.

    So I’m not convinced that evolutionary creationism is true. It seems to me that so-called progressive creationism fits the evidence quite nicely.

    Of course, he never does offer any evidence for it.

    Progressive creationism suggests that God intervenes periodically to bring about miraculously new forms of life and then allows evolutionary change to take place with respect to those life forms. But as for grand evolutionary change, this would not take place by the mechanisms of natural selection and mutation undirected by God. Rather we would need miraculous interventions of God in the process of biological evolution to bring about broad evolutionary change.

    How often does God intervene in evolution? Is He creating the genes himself or merely selecting the animals with the traits He wants? Can we detect His intervention now? Why does He bother with evolution at all and not just poof all the animals He wants into existence?

  9. zytigon says

    In reply to KevinKat , ” Argh baby penguin so cute. He can live in my apartment it’s always cold there! ”

    Kind in a way to offer to share your cold apartment with the penguin but maybe that’s not taking in the big picture.
    Air conditioning uses heat exchanger where heat is transferred from inside your apartment to the air out side. So outside gets a tiny bit warmer and inside quite a bit cooler. This process requires energy, a high percentage of which for your flat will probably come from fossil fuel. This will have released CO2 which is contributing to changing the climate for cute penguins.

    However we are all locked in to systems that are difficult to change. I’ve heard using a fan uses less energy ? I drove my car to work today. I’m just looking at what is possible in theory.

    I previously quoted from Jeff Rubin’s book, ” Why your world is about to get a whole lot smaller ” p 273 about energy use of houses in U.S.A. I have checked out the figures I quoted. He used a children’s reference page. I looked at another – U.S energy information administration eia.gov which is different:
    ” How much gasoline does the United States consume ” the answer – 3.1 billion barrels in 2011

    If one barrel = 1700 kwh then 3.1 billion barrels would generate 5270 billion kwh
    If one house uses 11,000 kwh per year then 3.1 billion barrels could supply 500 million houses per year
    There are 125 million houses in U.S.A so transport oil could provide 4 times amount needed

    From wikipedia article on ethanol production
    In 2011 U.S produced 13.9 billion gallons of ethanol from corn which was added to gasoline at 10%. This matches the 134 billion total gasoline consumption by vehicles in U.S.A in 2011 quoted by eia

    In 2011 U.S grew 64 million hectares of corn in total of which one third went to ethanol production
    So 20 million hectares of corn for ethanol = 200,000 square kilometers
    1 hectare could easily support a pony so you could support 20 million ponies from the area of land
    currently used for bioethanol.
    The U.S equine marketing association estimates there are already 11 million horses in U.S.A
    This could bring the total to 31 million horses for pulling americans in fine carriages. Impressive ?
    There are currently 250,000,000 cars in U.S.A so my scheme to turn U.S.A over to horse transport
    can only find 12 % of current. Oops again. My thoughts are pie in the sky.
    However at least doing this would give more crop rotation – an end the vast monoculture of GM corn.
    An extra 200,000 square kilometers with grass & clovers and other plants useful to bees & other insects
    would help conserve biodiversity
    Looks like a 220 million bicycles will still be needed.

    Growing hay for horses would only use maybe one third the fertilizer of growing corn and lots less energy – you’d only need to cut grass, turn a few times and bale. Transport of hay would be major task.

    Maybe it is more energy efficient to grow oats to feed humans directly and get them to cycle ? But get to work without sweating by horse & carriage. Trouble is that if horses were on same road as cars they would probably cause road blocks and increase fuel consumption thus erasing any advantage
    Probably just a tail pipe dream ?

  10. says

    @Zytigon:

    Using a fan will be an unfeasable process and in the end would use up more energy making me comfortable since I’d have to have one running all the time. It gets that hot where I live (east coast, humid as hell, sticky gross heat.)

  11. Tethys says

    1 hectare could easily support a pony

    No, you cannot grow enough feed for even one pony in that small amount of acreage. Goats might be able to subsist on it, but goats aren’t much good for transportation.

  12. opposablethumbs says

    aaronbaker, I like the poem very much. fwiw (which is nothing or next to nothing) I particularly like the title quotation and the first sentence; I slightly dislike the second sentence (though I can’t even begin to imagine how it could be any different) because it feels .. clunky, like a parenthesis, like it’s only there because it’s got to be there rather than because you really wanted it; I love the third sentence; and I like the fourth with the exception of “I have returned” (for the same reason as the second sentence: it feels obligatory rather than positively wanted).

    I don’t know if that makes the slightest scrap of sense, but thank you very much for sharing it with us.

  13. Portia, in boots says

    From the previous thread:

    rq

    Isn’t first-degree murder the one with any kind of premeditation? Granted, I took this and that of Canadian law, but the big difference between first- and second-degree murder was premeditation/planning/previous intent.
    I don’t know how that works in US law, though. Once things get into voluntary/involuntary manslaughter, I get confused. :)

    Yes, you are correct. Sorry if I was confusing before, hadn’t had my coffee. First degree requires that the prosecution prove premeditation, second degree does not. And you and everyone else gets confused about voluntary/involuntary manslaughter :) Don’t even get me started on depraved heart murder!

  14. opposablethumbs says

    Oh, and I forgot to say – I’m somewhat discomfited by the fact that although you have not adopted a rhyming scheme you haven’t completely avoided having any either. And by the fact that the 5th and 6th lines deviate from the metre of all the others. And it occurs to me to wonder whether maybe this discomfiture is (a part of) precisely what you wanted?
    I shall stop havering at this point, however, before I make even more of a fool of myself!

  15. zytigon says

    Daniel Yergin’s book, ” The Quest ” has an interesting chapter 35, ” The great electric car experiment ”
    He notes electric car concepts are struggling to deliver.

    Here is my suggestion: Car sharing.

    For the week ahead each person in U.S.A types into their computer their travel plans. Then a super clever computer program works out the most efficient way to transport those people and sends a travel plan to each driver so that in effect maybe only 10 % of cars get used each day ? Maybe a route could be sent to each sat nav and so people are driving according to computer program – where to go to pick up the next passenger. Also be told when you need to leave to arrive on time.

    This could result in far less congestion and so faster travel times and further reductions in fuel consumption.
    Maybe an even more clever computer program could match people type for a more harmonious travel experience?
    Ex convicts could be transported by police car taxi.
    Those on the run could be collect by security guards and taken direct to jail, do not pass go.

  16. rq says

    cicely
    Dammit, your horse is faster than mine (I was planning on posting the Dustin link).

    Portia
    … depraved heart murder? Sounds juicy.

    aaronbaker
    I like your contribution. It’s far better than anything I have ever attempted. And I’m a fan of the non-metric, non-rhyming poetry style, as long as it doesn’t get too much (as if I could be any more unclear).
    Yours works very well for me. Thank you for sharing!

  17. cicely says

    rq, I do not travel by Horse.
     
    I got there with my trusty Rocket Sneakers.
    :D
    -

  18. says

    The company you keep — Rand Paul, I’m talking to you. Keeping white supremacist, Jack Hunter on your staff, having him co-author your book, and taking his advice is not going to go down well with most folks during your next bid for the presidency of the USA. You think you have part of the libertarian, activist youth vote? You are about to lose most of it. Not even libertarian youth will go along with this shit … well most of them won’t. (source: http://freebeacon.com/rebel-yell/ )

    Hunter is currently trying to walk back some of his “Southern Avenger” statements and work, including:

    2004: “Although Lincoln’s assassin, John Wilkes Booth’s heart was in the right place, the Southern Avenger does regret that Lincoln’s murder automatically turned him into a martyr”.

    He compared Lincoln to Saddam Hussein and suggested that the 16th president would have had a romantic relationship with Adolf Hitler if the two met.

    “… modern Americans aren’t wrong to deplore the millions of Mexicans coming here now.”

    2009: “In my early 20s, I was a full-blown, right-wing radical. As a member of the Southern secessionist group the League of the South, I argued seriously for the states of the old Confederacy to break away from the rest of the Union,” wrote Hunter in a Charleston City Paper column. “I thought it might be better to tone down the radicalism and at least try to appear more respectable. But when I came across an old column of mine last week, I realized that I never really changed. I’m still just as radical or crazy, depending on your perspective. In fact, I might be getting worse.”
    ———-

    His current not-pology: “There’s a lot of people who write in print and radio that go out and beat their chests and try to just say the craziest things they can because that’s how you make a living. For awhile that’s how I made a living,” said Hunter. “And it’s not that you don’t mean it—it’s just you express it in ways that does more harm than good.”

    Hunter is part of the group that advises Rand Paul on foreign policy, as the Washington Post noted. Yeah, that’s what we want, a presidential candidate with a white supremacist as an advisor.

  19. carlie says

    I’ve heard using a fan uses less energy ?

    My house doesn’t have air conditioning, unlike most in the neighborhood that have either central air or window units. We only use fans in rooms when we’re in them, and one dehumidifier to take the moisture out of the air.

    I get a monthly statement from my power company that compares my energy usage with everyone else in my neighborhood. In the winter I average at or slightly below everyone else, because we heat with a lot of wood.

    Now that it’s summer, my use this last month was 52% higher than my neighbors.

  20. Portia, in boots says

    rq:
    It’s one of those old hold-overs in the law, the kind with the old-fashioned name that’s fun to say. It is usually second degree murder characterized by a mental state of “reckless disregard for human life.” The typical example used is firing a gun into a crowded room.

  21. says

    You know the FISA court that’s been in the news so much lately thanks to Edward Snowden’s whistle-blowing efforts? Well, here’s a scary fact: Supreme Court Justice John Roberts appointed the judges that serve in the secretive FISA court. There are 11 judges, and Roberts appointed Republicans to fill 10 of those slots.

    http://www.salon.com/2013/07/09/john_roberts_scary_secret_powers/

    Roberts is the guy who sided with other conservative SCOTUS judges to gut the voting rights act, and that’s just his most recent mistake. We cannot trust this man, nor his FISA appointees.

    As the New York Times revealed, John Roberts presides over a court that is “regularly assessing broad constitutional questions and establishing important judicial precedents, with almost no public scrutiny.” The Times called it “almost a parallel Supreme Court.” Using the legal principle known as the “special needs” doctrine, which once applied narrowly to issues of public safety – enabling the drug testing of railway workers, for instance – it created a terror-related exception to the Fourth Amendment’s requirement of a warrant for searches and seizures. The Wall Street Journal revealed that the FISA court had also vastly expanded the definition of the world “relevant,” as in “relevant to an authorized [foreign intelligence] investigation” to justify an equally vast expansion of surveillance on Americans.

    Quote is above is from Salon.
    Other relevant links:
    New York Times In Secret, Court Vastly Broadens Powers of N.S.A.
    Reuters The judges who preside over America’s secret court

  22. says

    A few enlightening quotes from Matt Taibbi’s latest blog post:

    … Thomson Reuters got slapped in the face by New York State Attorney General Eric Schneiderman for its absurd practice of selling early access to the results of the Survey of Consumer Confidence Survey it conducts each month in conjunction with the University of Michigan.

    It turns out that in recent times, if you paid them an extra subscription fee of a few thousand dollars a month, Thomson Reuters would allow you access to the Consumer Confidence data a full two seconds earlier than the rest of its subscribers – at 9:54:58 a.m., as opposed to 9:55:00 exactly. …

    The two-second head start allows high-speed traders to plunge into the markets en masse and retreat all the way back again before most of the world sees this market-altering economic data. From a CNN report a few weeks ago:

    In the milliseconds before the survey is released to other paying clients at 9:55 a.m. ET, trading volumes can soar up to 20 times their normal levels. By 9:54:59 a.m. ET, long after computers have acted on the number, volumes have already returned to normal. …

    Looks to me like yet another way to rip-off those not willing to pay thousands of dollars per month to be in the Not Ripped Off category. And there more examples of this practice in Taibbi’s article, for example: “Deutsche Borse sells access to its Chicago Business Barometer three minutes early to anyone willing [to pay] the relatively modest sum of 2,000 Euros a year.”

    The companies that do this are not ashamed. They consider it a service:

    It is widely understood that news and information companies compete for exclusive news and differentiated content to help their customers make better informed trading and investment decisions . . .

    Right. I wouldn’t give a wooden nickel for that piss poor excuse for unethical behavior, and neither would Matt Taibbi:

    … Yes, there’s a socially beneficial activity, helping your customers make “better informed trading and investment decisions” two seconds faster than your other customers (read: suckers). Clearly, someone who wants to buy a two-second head start is doing so because he or she needs those extra two seconds to soberly digest market data, not because he or she wants to massively front-run the rest of the investing public using high-speed computers….

    Taibbi goes on to note the endless nature of these stories. I call them “We scam you and you should like it.”

  23. says

    opposablethumbs:

    thanks for the thoughtful critique.

    Yeah, the second sentence, with its “Out”, wrenches away from the prevailing iambic rhythm, maybe too much. That was intentional–throughout I’m thinking of the narrator moving AWAY from his everyday circumstances to a realm of the dead (or what he imagines to be such a realm). But there’s no denying the sentence is awkward.

    “I have returned” brings him back from that realm, to report that no voice spoke to him, no beloved figure walked with him; he was, simply, alone. Also, whether it works or not, it tries to echo “I only am escaped alone to tell thee” from the Book of Job.

    I’ve been experimenting a lot lately with injecting an occasional rhyme into what otherwise is blank verse. (i hadn’t really considered it might be jarring; maybe it is.)

    In lines 6-7, the rhythm goes from iambic to trochaic, pretty unjarringly, I think; in doing so I believe it slows the pace of what’s being said.

    Anyway, thank you very much for giving it so much attention. You’ve given me some things to mull over.

  24. says

    Good evening

    Kevin-Kat
    It’s not your fault I was being stupid. Do you have a preferred pronoun right now?
    *hugs*

    rq
    Oh, you’re having one of those days. I usually say it’s when they want to be put up for adoption…

    houses and energy
    The key to reducing energy consumption while not being miserable is insulation and some tricks in summer. Good insulation keeps te heat out in summer and the cold out in winter We live in a 1960s apartment block. When this building was constructed people thought that “saving energy” meant lying on a couch, but it got insulated in 2007 and now we need 30% less energy in winter while being way more comfortable in summer AND winter.
    Now, that’s often not something individuals can undertake, so big government demanding people to do it (and offering cheap loans just for that) needs to step in.
    Other things everybody can do: Shutters, blinders, that kind of thing. Heavy drawn curtains. And sensible ventilation. Close the windows in the morning and don’t open them during the day. Taht keeps the cool night air in and the hot day air out.

  25. cicely says

    Did I just hear that Rick Perry is not going to run again? Hooray. Now if Texas can get a decent governor in place…

    I think he’s just clearing his dance card for another run at the presidency.
    -

  26. Portia, in boots says

    Did I just hear that Rick Perry is not going to run again? Hooray. Now if Texas can get a decent governor in place…

    I think he’s just clearing his dance card for another run at the presidency.

    I like to think he’s skeered of Wendy Davis ^_^

    Of course, that’s two motivations he has for not running for Gov. again. He has three, but he can’t remember the third one.

    (BAZING! I’m here all week, folks).

  27. says

    Giliell:

    *hugs* I dunno yet. Like I said, I’m pretty much gender fluid I think, with most of my online stuff taking place in the female nym.

  28. says

    Moment of Mormon Madness — confirming a particularly virulent version of the idea that if you are rich you are righteous.

    We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.

    The guy speaking is Keith B. McMullen, the CEO of Deseret Management Corporation, a for-profit arm of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

    Salt Lake Tribune link.

    The article estimated that the church’s annual revenues from Deseret Management Corp. alone reached $1.2 billion, a figure company CEO Keith B. McMullin initially confirmed, but later said through a spokesman that figure was “vastly overstated.”
    McMullin is a former counselor in the church’s Presiding Bishopric, which oversees the faith’s finances and business interests.

    Analysis from an ex-mormon:

    Grossly overstated, my ass. I think he spoke first and was harshly reminded later by Church HQ that is not allowed to reveal company finances.

    McMullin also said:

    In some cases money flows in the opposite direction, from the church’s treasury to the businesses. ‘From time to time, if there is a particular need, there would be some monies available, but fortunately over the years that has not been the case very often.

    That’s tithing money going to support for-profit businesses. Missionaries (young and “senior” also support LDS for-profit enterprises by working for free on various ranches, in resorts, on hunting preserves, on farms, in administering water rights, etc.

    Ex-mormons discuss the vast holdings of the LDS Corporation: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,879444

    LDS Inc. is the largest foreign recipient of farm subsidies in England. The lawd’s corporation owns 0.7% of Florida land. They own 200,000 acres in Utah, the second-largest ranch in Canada, 75,000 acres in Brazil, and on and on.

    27,000 acres in Arkansas
    http://www.arkansasbusiness.com/article/89034/mormon-affiliate-seeks-to-sell-27156-acres

    Hawaii:
    http://www.hawaiireserves.com/index.htm

    Nebraska:
    http://journalstar.com/news/state-and-regional/article_5de7826d-51cb-5b5a-a166-d2b3d38fd1cc.html

  29. ImaginesABeach says

    zytigon –

    There is no way I am giving up my 30 minute ALONE commute to share my space with someone else. That’s the only time all day that there are no people around me.

  30. rq says

    Giliell
    A form of temporary adoption would be nice.
    (You know, an agency that gives wannabe parents the opportunity to spend a few afternoons with some really rambunctious kids, as a test run. Giving current parents a bit of a break.)
    Yeah, I know, they’re my kids and I love them. They’re still kids, though.
    *hugs* and I hope you’ve been having a nice day!

  31. rq says

    Sunday night’s marathon choir concert, which looked something like this from the air. Yeah, it’s over 6 hours of Latvian choir music, and it tapered off into a 6 hour singalong with the audience (my parents were home at 7AM). And thus ends the XXV All-Latvian Song Festival.

    The geometry of movement, also known as the final dance show of the XV All-Latvian Dance Festival. Stick it out, the aerial shots alone are worth it – and the transitions. Traditional choreography at its modern best.

  32. Esteleth, the most colossal nerd on Pharyngula says

    *brushes dust off of nym*

    *wanders in from Lounge #420 or so*

    Wow, hi everyone!

    So guess who just got admitted to her first choice nursing school?!

  33. Esteleth, the most colossal nerd on Pharyngula says

    That phone call was pretty epically mood whiplash-y.

    Went like this:

    Them: “Hi, I’m [name] at [school], calling for Esteleth?”
    Me: “Speaking.”
    Them: “Yes, we were wondering if you could matriculate in September?”
    Me: “Um. Well, see, my job ends in December, and I’m just not comfortable with having nothing to do for nine months.”
    Them: “Oh, no. Not next September, this September. See, we just found ourselves with extra slots, so we’re calling the local people.”
    Me: “Uh.”
    Them: “Mmm?”
    Me: “Well, I’m on a contract. And it ends in December. But I’ll ask. The answer is probably no, though.”
    Them: “Okay, that’s fine. Please ask and let us know one way or the other by August 1. If not, there’s definitely a slot waiting for you for the January matriculation date.”

    That conversation was 40 minutes ago and my heart rate still has not slowed.

    !!!!!

  34. Esteleth, the most colossal nerd on Pharyngula says

    I have since looked at my contract. I will need to speak with Boss, but it looks like that since I am not suddenly incapable of performing my job, the only way I could get out of my job would be to refund my salary for the year.

    Which is a pretty batshit line, all told.

    Um.

    Can the Horde loan me $42,000?

    (yeah that’s what I thought)

  35. rq says

    Congratulations, Esteleth!
    I hope your work can work out a compromise with you.

  36. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    There was some bullshit like that in old contracts for my type of employment, luckily, they got rid of it.
    I hope you can solve the problem.

  37. cicely says

    Esteleth!
    *earthwormy pouncehug*

    So guess who just got admitted to her first choice nursing school?!

    Huzzah!
    *chocolate & champagne*
    Hopefully a way out of the Contractual Obligation can be found.
    -

  38. opposablethumbs says

    Congratulations Esteleth! That’s pretty damn wonderful (especially since they already told you that if you can’t start in September because of your contract they’ll be waiting for you in January anyway. Does that mean you get to have your cake and eat it? :-) )

  39. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Esteleth, run your contract past the Pullet Patrol™ legal experts, Peck, Pound, and Pulvereyes.

  40. says

    This Moment of Mormon Madness is an addition to the long list of mormons ripping off other mormons via Ponzi schemes:

    … Guy Andrew Williams, 42, and his father Brent F. Williams, 66, were convicted June 28 of 38 counts of conspiracy, wire fraud, mail fraud and money laundering in an action stemming from crimes targeting wealthy Mormons in Arizona and neighboring states beginning in 2002. The verdict capped a two-week trial conducted by visiting U.S. District Judge Jack Zouhary….

    Guy Williams served as managing director and Brent Williams as chief financial officer of a group of invesment funds known as the Mathon entities, which collected more than $100 million from investors from February 2002 to April 2005. Investors were told their money would be used to make short-term loans to borrowers at a high interest rate and that Mathon had an extensive record of making such loans.

    In fact, evidence presented at the trial showed that most incoming cash was used to pay initial investors, with the defendants and their business partners paying themselves salaries and bonuses exceeding $10 million, prosecutors said….

    Victims included high-profile current or former Valley residents such as football great Danny White, basketball standout Danny Ainge and real-estate investor Ross Farnsworth Jr. …

    The investigation involved the Arizona Corporation Commission, FBI, IRS and U.S. Postal Inspection Service.

    Arizona Central link.

  41. zytigon says

    Thanks for feed back, I’m gradually making my way towards reality.
    Ok Carlie I’d better not become a fan of fan’s
    ImaginesABeach, Now that you mention it I quite like driving alone too. It lets me put on what ever music I like without worrying that someone else isn’t enjoying it. Car’s are actually brilliant inventions in most ways. Just a pity about the exhaust emissions. It wouldn’t be a problem if there were only one million cars in the world instead of one billion.

    How many houses have enough area of solar panels on their roof to power their air conditioning? How many kwh does air conditioning for an average apartment need in July ?

    Would Saudi Arabia be able to power all it’s desalination plants with solar power ?

    If the worlds deserts could be painted white would that reflect much more of the suns heat back into space ?

  42. Dr Pepper says

    12 rq

    Challenge: Anybody want to borrow three fine, upstanding young children (ages 1 to just-about-6) for two to three days of exercise, ingenuity and other shenanigans? I would like them back eventually, but they’re making me feel incapable and slow right now. Not to mention just a little bit annoyed.

    I always say: other people’s children are the best– you can send them home when you get tired of them. Unfortunately i doing overdue house stuff right now and would need some bigger ones who could move furniture, vacuum, weed, and so on.

  43. chigau (違う) says

    zytigon #58
    I’m pretty sure that all the living things in the deserts would object to being painted white.

  44. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    How many houses have enough area of solar panels on their roof to power their air conditioning? How many kwh does air conditioning for an average apartment need in July ?

    Would Saudi Arabia be able to power all it’s desalination plants with solar power ?

    If the worlds deserts could be painted white would that reflect much more of the suns heat back into space ?

    You are asking some questions that require strong answers, so take your discussion to the Thunderdome, so people can properly express themselves as to your thinking, or, as they me see it, your lack thereof. Don’t hide in the “polite” thread like somebody afraid to be criticized.

  45. Tethys says

    I don’t think zytigon is hiding in the lounge, or trying to be rude. IMO they are just spitballing ideas without doing any research into those ideas.

    Thunderdome would be a good place to discuss simply because our resident tardigrade engineer tends to hang there more than in the lounge, and he would probably have all sorts of interesting information on renewable energy as it applies to buildings.

    However, there is no reason for zytigon to leave the lounge and go to t-dome just so some horde members can be less than polite to them.

  46. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    I don’t think zytigon is hiding in the lounge, or trying to be rude. IMO they are just spitballing ideas without doing any research into those ideas

    Well, that isn’t done is soft cuddly space. New ideas need to be criticized to make them stronger, cause them to fail. Which is my point. This is supposedly a non-criticism thread.

  47. Dr Pepper says

    RD

    You are ruining one of my favorite theoretical examples. I’ve been online since the 80s and when i’m trying to explain network communtcaions and information, i always like to use “latvian folk dance”.

    At first, i’d say things like:

    ok, suppose you wanted to find some information about latvian folk dance, find out if your local librabry has dial in, if so, you’ll be able to access their card catalog.

    Later i’d recommend they check out of the larger bbses, such as Eskimo North, or a service, such as Genie and see if they had a latvian folkdance interest forum.

    Then if would be subscribe to the latvian-folkdance echo on Fido, and after that arts.dance.latvia.folk on Usenet.

    Sometime in the late 90’s banner ads started, so i’d warn people: if you’re using Netscape and you go to Yahoo to look up, say, latvian folkdance, there are companies that will note that and then you’re going to start seeing ads for latvian music cds, and vacation trips to Latvia.

    Now i just warn tell people to use ad blockers to stop those annoying, genuine latvian disco clog popups, and to never answer an email from a latvian prince with wire fund problems.

    Thing is, the when i started, Latvia was sort of exotic. Far away, not well represented among immigrant communities here in the US and secure behind the Iron Curtain. Now, if i had the money i could fly out every week and see the taping of Latvian Idol, or whatever they call it there. Not very exotic anymore.

    Maybe i’ll start using tweeting to Curiosity as my example.

  48. Tethys says

    I wouldn’t be suprised if the conversation with zytigon ended up in the Thunderdome.

    I wouldn’t be surprised either. Clueless gets tiresome very quickly, not to mention derailing threads, and not understanding that the lounge is a social thread, not a soapbox.

    Well, that isn’t done is soft cuddly space. New ideas need to be criticized to make them stronger, cause them to fail. Which is my point. This is supposedly a non-criticism thread.

    Pish-posh, it is possible to criticize things kindly. PZ lounge rule says kindly, no mention is made of non-criticism. Zytigon does realize ze is being less than realistic after several of their ideas have been criticized in the lounge today.

    Paint the desert white? no
    Horses? no
    Fans! no

  49. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Pish-posh, it is possible to criticize things kindly.

    Not always. StevoR tried to hide his *stick in polite euphemism for hating folks of different color/religion* here for a while, hoping folks wouldn’t use the proper term to describe his attitudes. Some topics should be elsewhere. Extreme social engineering is topic that should be elsewhere.

  50. Tethys says

    Extreme social engineering is topic that should be elsewhere.

    I thought zytigon’s topic was global warming, and methods to combat it. It is a little difficult to be sure from the barrage of proposed solutions offered.

    They don’t set off any red flags for me other than a bit clueless and random.

  51. says

    Tethys:
    I agree with you…and Nerd. It is possible to disagree kindly. However, some people react and respond to criticism in ways that cause an escalation of disagreement and sometimes an abandonment (intentional or not) of kindness. Making the attempt to avoid that by steering potentially contentious topics to the Dome, can help keep the Lounge the civil, kind, social space that manybenjoy it for. True, there have been blowups here, so theres no denying that ‘take it to the Dome’ is not a foolproof method of keeping the peace. But it is handy.

    ****
    I had the most fascinating conversation with a cab driver today. Normally I simply let the driver know where I would like to go and then play on my phone. Not sure why today was different, but as the cabbie (D) began talking about his day, I found myself interested. He had only been driving cabs for three months, but had quickly gotten frustrated with the rudeness of the passengers. D is former Navy and had seen much of the world, every US state, and was a former truck driver. Yet he was shocked to find how rude people could be. When I mentioned that some people may look down on cab drivers, he completely agreed.
    We chatted about why he wanted to start driving, how long he has lived in Pensacola and his family. He mentioned having a 27 yo daughter, and three adult sons, as well as two younger children at. He talked about his love for family and how his wife of 22 years was back in school to get further nursing education. He jokingly mentioned how his wifes heart is so big that she goes to funerals of patients, something he doesnt get. I applauded the care that she displayed in doing that. He chuckled that it was easy for her to be caring, but a challenge for him. I told him that after 22 years of marriage, it is likely he has become good at caring.

    We talked about a group he once picked up (he drives a van) containing several military men and a young woman. Their conversation was apparently loud and profanity laced to which D tried to stay silent. Yet the woman badgered him about talking, going so far as to say “you too good to talk to us, boy”. Did I mention D is a nearly 50 yo black man? He, like many black men I know do not like being called ‘boy’ (understandably, given the history of the word). Needless to say, she was kicked out of the cab (she had said other rude things too).

    I listened attentively as he talked about his daughter who graduates college in December, and gives birth to her first child in January. We spoke about the line many parents walk between supporting their adult children and knowing when/where to give or withold criticism of the childs actions. He said that was still something he had to work on.

    He spoke briefly about the gay celebration on Memorial Day weekend, how much he made, a friend he made, and in a confession that almost always make me want to give someone a hug, how he could never be a bigot (I never said anything about being gay, so his admission was even more awesome). When I asked how he was treated, he smiled and said very well.

    The conversation turned to his love of Star Trek, beginning with ST:OS. Apparently, he spent so many hours watching the OS, he knows entire blocks of dialogue by heart. That segued into D revealing his love for science fiction and reading. Earlier he made a comment about being dumb, because he didnt have a college degree. I wish I would have refuted that.

    On dropping me at home, I pulled out $45.00 to cover my $36.75 ride and when I told him to keep the change, he did a double take, reminding me of the cost. I told him as a bartender, I tip nicely and that I enjoyed talking with him. We shook hands, introduced ourselves and parted ways.

    That was the highlight of my day and this is not meant jokingly.

  52. thunk: Ex ludo, scientia says

    hia all:

    Tony: yayz. I always feel guilty for never tipping enough. Too affluent to understand, honestly.

    Esteleth: and great um..yay for you. I hope for the best.

    KevinKat: hihi! I am genderfluid enough too, sometimes I do try to push myself one way or the other. Right now, I’m not doing very well at expressing myself as non-male, because my family is rather transphobic, and I have craploads of internalized femmephobia to express properly. So I’m doing a good job of having exactly everybody misgender me.

  53. Ing:Intellectual Terrorist "Starting Tonight, People will Whine" says

    Threadrupt but giving life update anyway!

    Moving finally on the 14th. Big day. Got eveyrthing all set just a few last packing and to arrange net set up. Very nervous but it’s a good thing I hope.

    All in all wish things where better and we never had to wind up moving in with my parent because the “oh my god I can’t take it I need to move out as soon as we can afford it” made things harder leaving again but you know….had to happen.

  54. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    That was the highlight of my day and this is not meant jokingly

    It is always pleasant finding someone who is trying to make the best of what life dealt them. And I probably would have tipped as you did. I always look at how pleasant folks are compared to what they have to work for it. The ladies working in the family restaurant, bringing soup, salad, entree, and desert, always get a big tip as they are invariably pleasant. Karen’s friends complain, as I make then look bad…come on, grow up women, and look beyond the price of the meal to the service that was provided.

  55. cicely says

    zytigon, how many people can afford to put up enough solar panels to do doodly? And if you “paint the desert white”, what do you plan to do about the various members of its ecosystem?
     
    Ah. I see it’s been suggested that you move this conversation to the [Thunderdome], so I’ll quit, here.

    That was the highlight of my day and this is not meant jokingly.

    Nor did it sound like you were joking.
    Tony, have I told you lately that you’re awesome?
    *smilehug*

    *pouncehug* for thunk.
    What do you think of Chantal’s chances?

    *pouncehug* for Ing.
    I only had to move out of my mother’s house once.
    She resents that.
    -

  56. thunk: Ex ludo, scientia says

    cicely: weak; for a strong TS, she’s extremely disorganized. She probably won’t last long past Hispaniola.

  57. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    Well that would be fine with me considering many models have it heading in my general direction.

  58. Menyambal --- Ooo, look! A garage sale ... says

    Zytigon, check out the Halfbakery http://www.halfbakery.com/ for a site to propose ideas. I know I have seen discussions of painting deserts white there.

    Tony, you are amazing. Thanks for sharing all your stories of sharing this world with other people.

    “Genderfluid”. I like that. I’m a fairly straight guy, who acts a bit “gay” by some people’s standards, so it’s good to have a term that sounds like an educated way to tell them to fuck off.

    Horde, I have mentioned the http://giftofmobility.org/ project as something atheists could support. As it happens, I have one of their PET hand-cranked wheelchairs to give away. It’s a test model with a wider wheelbase in back. It’d make an outdoor wheelchair, but not fit through a doorway easily. If you know of anyone near Springfield, Missouri, that could use it, I’ll donate and deliver it. It’s a bit rough, and not shiny and new. There was some Hordething that sounded like they could use it, but I can’t recall who. Thanks.

  59. thunk: Ex ludo, scientia says

    Menyambal:

    I’m a fairly straight guy, who acts a bit “gay” by some people’s standards, so it’s good to have a term that sounds like an educated way to tell them to fuck off.

    It’s not really about sexual orientation; more of a way of concisely communicating that although I’m usually non-binary/genderqueer but a bit closer to being a woman than a man, it can change quite a bit from day to day. (or on any timescale, of course)

  60. John Morales says

    As I understand it, gender identity and gender presentation are different things — and both are different to sexual identity and sexual preference.

    (People are complicated!)

  61. rq says

    Dr Pepper
    Latvian folk music was your go-to example? :D
    Well, interestingly, apparently it has mild cult status in some countries (like China and Japan) for reasons mysterious. For example, a Japanese choir (with no Latvian members or direct connections) that sings only Latvian songs came to the festival this year, to everyone’s great surprise, and about half of them even speak really good Latvian (the Japanese accent suits the language, too). It just seems strange that it still sometimes feels like such a small and obscure country and language, and there are people in the world who go out of their way to learn about it.
    And Latvian music still isn’t nearly as popular as it should be. ;)

    Tony
    You know what you need? Not a book, but a column in a newspaper or a magazine. One of those long ones. That way, you’d get published, but you wouldn’t have such huge limits on story length. (Because War and Peace was a chore, and while Tony’s Stories would probably be a lot more interesting, 1000+ pages is a lot.)

    Good luck with the move, Ing!! And watch out for the moving gremlins. ;)

    re: solar panels
    Husband and I recently looked into those as a heating option because the system needs updating/replacing anyway (but, alas, not before this winter after all – it’ll be wood and running down to the basement every 3 hours again), and they are massively expensive to install. Even with EU subsidization (for which the deadline ended recently), it is well beyond our budget, and we’re one of the rare lucky ones who even got a chance to buy a house in the first place. We’ll put them up after we win that lottery or they become cheaper; unfortunately, at the moment, we’ll have to keep polluting.

  62. says

    Good morning

    *pouncehug on Ing and Esteleth*

    Yay for Esteleth

    +++
    Gender
    The more I think of it the more I want to kill the terms feinine and masculine with a fire. Things I want and like and do don’t need a fucking label beyond the one they have. I don’t need any label beyond the one I gladly accept. I’m female, ‘key? Yes I’m quite comfortable being a cis-female. I’m not feminine.

  63. says

    re: gender

    I’m female bodied, and as long as I can suppress ovulation and bleeding, I’m quite comfortable in it. I generally identify as female because, eh, I’m lazy as fuck, and I’m not too keen on messing with my brain/bodily chemistry (well, more than I already am) or undergoing surgeries or what-have-you, and what the hell, some of the clothing is cute.

    I tend to present as gender-neutral. If you’re paying attention, yeah, you’ll pick up on my physical sex, but I’ve also been called “sir” (multiple times!) while wearing a skirt.

  64. Menyambal --- Ooo, look! A garage sale ... says

    WMDKitty, I agree with you about the laziness regarding gender identity. I can’t see going through hell to switch sides—I don’t like all my “expected” roles, but I don’t have to do them. (I’ve a partial malfunction in my hormonal workings, but I think it’s more an intellectual thing.) Folks who do take it seriously have my sympathy, or course.

    One of the things I like about this blog is that I get to interact with a lot of folks, without immediately knowing their gender. It’s fun to just chat, and interesting when someone identifies.

  65. rq says

    I’ve realized how wrong I can be trying to gender people from the way they talk or the things they talk about. I used to mind a lot, not knowing – but now it matters less and less, and the actual conversation means more and more (although I do still unconsciously categorize people, not always correctly, but knowing the correct answer doesn’t feel so mind-blowing anymore).

  66. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    rq,

    I used to care more about determining the gender of people I was talking to online, because it just seemed so important. It doesn’t any more.
    I have forgotten the gender of some people around here, because it just doesn’t come up often (a potential problem with that is accidentally using a gender neutral pronoun with someone who has identified as trans, but I try not to make that kind of mistake and hurt someone).

  67. mildlymagnificent says

    The caption’s a bit of a bother, but this is still a fantastic photo of camels.

    I know it’s silly, but my first response to pictures like that is What a great jigsaw!

  68. says

    I used to think it was important to know the gender of people online, but after spending time here, I came to realize it is not important for me to know. I really do not know why I felt it important to be aware of.
    I know I have genderd two individuals in the Lounge in the past, and after requests to not do so again, I always have that in the back of my mind when responding.

    ****
    rq:
    I like your idea. A column. Hmmm…

    ****
    Thanks for the kind words all.

    ****
    Giliell:
    (From last thread)
    Thanks for the information on male and female drivers.

  69. opposablethumbs says

    I love Tony’s Stories. And I agree, you write a great column! The only thing even better would be if your bar were my local – or of course if we could all teleport to it at will, so it could be the local for the entire Horde. Can you imagine :-) ? It would be a concrete physical location for the Saloon :-D
    .
    help help, SEEKING ACADEMIC RESOURCES ON MATHS STEREOTYPE THREAT

    Right, well now, I seem to find myself working on a localisation project at the moment in which the task is to take a maths course for primary and secondary school age children, originally created in Japan, and adapt the texts for other countries.
    The material we have to work on has already been translated from Japanese into English; much of it reads well and some of it really doesn’t. Our task is to turn it all into natural-sounding British English and make any cultural changes necessary (e.g. some of the food and drink references in the problems – that kind of thing).

    This new English version is apparently going to be used as the basis for future translations into other languages. So it could go far, I don’t know.
    Now I am trying to persuade the people for whom I’m doing this that it would make a MUCH better product if we also “corrected” the material for gender balance in the examples (I’m thinking stereotype threat, though I haven’t used that term with them).
    I’m thinking – and please correct me – that the maths-is-for-boys stereotype is not (much?) present in Japanese culture (I’m sure there are plenty, but just not that particular one?) and that this could be why it wasn’t really taken into account when the original material was written. I’m suggesting that to do a really cracking job of localisation we should not only correct the English but also look at the gender balance in the examples.

    But it’s not actually the case that there are far more sums where “Johnny” has apples to share out than sums where “Jenny” does; the actual numbers of male and female names are fairly evenly matched. It’s more that the examples have girls doing “girly” things like cut lengths of ribbon and measure out juice, and boys doing “boyish” things like carry boxes or run races.

    Does anyone know of any Highly Academic, Serious resources on stereotype threat in maths I could point to to support my argument that merely reminding pupils of gender stereotypes in general, in the the middle of a maths worksheet, would be detrimental to the girls doing maths?

    I know I’ve seen people mention this, but like a fool I can’t find the actual references.

    It’s not an earth-shattering project or anything, really, but I do feel it’s one little opportunity to make one little bit of difference. Any help and advice gratefully received!

  70. John Morales says

    opposablethumbs, my natural temptation would be to subvert it, so that the examples have boys doing “girly” things like cut lengths of ribbon and measure out juice, and girls doing “boyish” things like carry boxes or run races.

  71. opposablethumbs says

    Hi John, that was precisely my first thought and is exactly what I want to do – BUT this project involves loads of different texts and several different people.

    I can’t swap Johnny and Jenny in the kids’ worksheet if they are still the other way round on the answer sheet or in the teacher’s booklet that someone else is working on; we have to coordinate so that everything matches up across all the material.

  72. says

    Opposablethumbs
    Get your hands on Delusions of Gender.
    I know Cordelia Fine talks about it (studies that show that even ticking a box triggers stereotype threat) and she has her stuff well referenced

  73. John Morales says

    opposablethumbs, ah.

    So, it seems your problem is the workload distribution, and the only way to achieve your goal is to either change the distribution or else to get all contributors onside — and I can see the sense of your request for academic sources. :|

  74. opposablethumbs says

    Exactly. I don’t even know the other people working on the project – we’re only in touch by email (and even that only since a couple of days ago) so to have even a slim chance of persuading anyone that this is a good idea it pretty much has to be something from a Frightfully Unimpeachable Academic Source ;-) and ideally readily accessible online as well. Cordelia Fine in the longer term, maybe? (though this specific project will only be for a short time).

  75. F [is for fluvial] says

    Dr Pepper @ 67

    Wait, wait, hold on… Let me just get my brand spanking new copy of Delrina CyberJack fired up.

    —–

    Esteleth

    Fantastic! I hope it all comes together nicely, whichever starting date you can swing.

  76. Esteleth, the most colossal nerd on Pharyngula says

    So I may or may not have spent a few hours last night folding nurse hats from paper and wearing them.

    Nurses don’t actually wear those hats any more (and after wearing a paper one, I totally get why), but I felt oddly gleeful.

    No, I wasn’t sober, why do you ask?

  77. Ogvorbis says

    No, I wasn’t sober, why do you ask?

    BUT DO YOU HAVE A HANGOVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????!!!!!!?

  78. Esteleth, the most colossal nerd on Pharyngula says

    BUT DO YOU HAVE A HANGOVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????!!!!!!?

    I am 25% English, 13.5% Bavarian, 13.5% Swedish and 50% Scots-Irish. My liver is made of steel.

    Which is to say that no, I am not hung over.

  79. Esteleth, the most colossal nerd on Pharyngula says

    In other news, I am 102% human. Apparently.

    That extra 2% is made up of pure all-American grit and cussedness.

  80. Ogvorbis says

    Damn. I just lost my voice for nothing. Sorry, all.

    Wait a minute.

    25+13.5+13.5+50=102

    There is more of you than there is of you? Or are your parts greater than your whole?

  81. Esteleth, the most colossal nerd on Pharyngula says

    Or are your parts greater than your whole?

    It is the hair. It is very fluffy today.

  82. mildlymagnificent says

    opposablethumbs

    I’d suggest checking American Educator. I thought I’d seen something about stereotype threat in this piece from Willingham – http://www.aft.org/pdfs/americaneducator/winter2009/willingham.pdf – but I haven’t spotted it on a quick readthrough.

    Luckily you can search the journal by subject, by author, by issue as well as a general search for terms. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen a bit more on stereotype threat generally and in subjects other than maths. But their writers are pretty good and the footnotes/ references are usually well-done. Worth a shot, anyway.

  83. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    My house doesn’t have air conditioning, unlike most in the neighborhood that have either central air or window units. We only use fans in rooms when we’re in them, and one dehumidifier to take the moisture out of the air.

    Fans, generally speaking, don’t use all that much energy compared to anything with a compressor, like air conditioners…or dehumidifiers, which are essentially smallish air conditioners that use the cold air they generate internally to condense moisture and then reheat the now-drier air using their condenser coils (unless they’re Peltier based, which has about a 20% efficiency). Either way, the dehumifidier plus differences in insulation likely explains the difference in energy usage.

  84. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    If the worlds deserts could be painted white would that reflect much more of the suns heat back into space ?

    Aside from the ecological problems:

    IIRC black paint has a radiative absorptivity coefficient of about 0.99, whereas white paint has an absorptivity of about 0.90. Desert sand has a reflectivity of about 0.25-0.40 according to this source (reflectivity plus absorptivity plus transmissivity = 1 and we can assume these are opaque, so that equals an absorptivity between 0.75 and 0.60.

    So…..no.

  85. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    (That was for everyone’s benefit; I know the broader discussion has moved).

    …now, painting ROOFS white, or formulating a cheap white asphalt, might get you somewhere.

    Gender
    The more I think of it the more I want to kill the terms feinine and masculine with a fire. Things I want and like and do don’t need a fucking label beyond the one they have. I don’t need any label beyond the one I gladly accept. I’m female, ‘key? Yes I’m quite comfortable being a cis-female. I’m not feminine.

    Seconded. I find it really jarring when I find otherwise intelligent sources referring to “feminine traits” or “feminine occupations” apparently uncritically. >.>

    WMDKitty, I agree with you about the laziness regarding gender identity. I can’t see going through hell to switch sides—I don’t like all my “expected” roles, but I don’t have to do them. (I’ve a partial malfunction in my hormonal workings, but I think it’s more an intellectual thing.) Folks who do take it seriously have my sympathy, or course.

    This too, despite my perspective being complicated and apparently hard to explain. :(

  86. Pteryxx says

    Hi Horde, threadrupt and likely to remain so, between driving all over Texas and my laptop dying. I might be back for these later… *dumps all the anklehugs*

    No shortage of horrible (real-time, even!) abortion news, but this is the latest – North Carolina (who we last saw sneaking an anti-abortion omnibus into their Sharia law bill) is doing another sneak attack, holding a committee meeting NOW in which they secretly stuffed the omnibus into an innocent motorcycle safety bill previously known as HB353. No public notice was given AT ALL. The only reason activists are on it now is that they were watching for some such BS after the shenanigans of last week.

    http://projects.newsobserver.com/under_the_dome/without_notice_house_rushes_forward_new_abortion_bill

    UPDATED: Hours after Gov. Pat McCrory issued a veto threat for a controversial abortion bill, House Republicans — acting without public notice — took a bill about motorcycle safety and put in abortion language.

    […]

    House Democratic Rep. Rick Glazier objected to the short notice, saying he would vote against the bill. “The process here is just dead wrong,” added Rep. Joe Sam Queen, a Democrat.

    The House’s move echoes how the abortion bill surfaced in the Senate — and drew a rebuke from McCrory for not being transparent.

    The Sharia law language from the Senate bill is not included in this latest House measure but the motorcycle safety provisions are still in the bill.

    Follow the hashtags #ncga and #StandWithNCWomen – as usual, Twitter is the only live and public coverage.

    Background on the NC bill:

    http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2013/07/09/north-carolina-house-committee-meets-on-sharia-law-abortion-bill-as-protest-against-bill-grows/

    In other states, Wisconsin’s Scott Walker quietly signed a mandatory ultrasound bill over the holiday weekend, just as Rachel Maddow predicted someone would do. The city of Fairfax Virginia snuck onerous medical clinic restrictions through a council meeting last night – apparently Virginia’s existing TRAP laws weren’t enough, they wanted some of their own.

    And the battle in Texas goes on… [CONTENT GETS BAD HERE ON OUT]

    Monday was a day of incredibly epic citizen testimony, with people who’d never spoken up before talking about their corrective rapes, forced pregnancies, forced adoptions, and family members dying of back-alley abortions. Then all day Tuesday was a farce of legislative debate as the omnibus bill’s presenter vetoed amendment after amendment after amendment that might actually have done something to help people. Sex ed, good faith for clinics, rape and incest exceptions, it all got struck down without most Republicans even paying attention. Ana Mardoll has extensive coverage of all the Texas goings-on; summary here:

    http://www.anamardoll.com/2013/07/feminism-texas-monday-retrospective.html

  87. Pteryxx says

    Massive activism is happening in response to all these escalating threats to abortion and women’s healthcare (and via Moral Mondays, to Republican fuckery in general). Besides twitter, email, letter-writing, and phone-banking campaigns to pressure both legislators and journalists, a nationwide list of events is being curated here:

    http://tootwistedtv.blogspot.com/2013/07/reproductive-rights-events.html

    including rallies this morning in Dallas and this evening in Fort Worth, the #WeAreDC photo collection, and a National Day of Action for reproductive rights next Monday, July 15.

  88. Portia, in boots says

    Oooh. Now I have a craving. And an idea for something to stash in my desk drawer. Thanks!

  89. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    they secretly stuffed the omnibus into an innocent motorcycle safety bill previously known as HB353

    You know, I’ve been wondering about this for a while.
    How is it even possible to do shit like that? Shouldn’t there be some bill that says “one topic per bill blah blah [something about transparency]”.

  90. Portia, in boots says

    There is such a law in Illinois, but I’m not sure all states have it. And if it’s somehow construed to be budgetary, I think that’s used as a catchall category (like they did in Ohio).

  91. Portia, in boots says

    Pyjamas?

    Aussie secretary here only just instructed me that this is the proper spelling. I love dialect differences.

  92. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    Portia,

    Spellchecker says it’s wrong, but pyjamas seems closer to our word (pidžama) than pajamas.

  93. opposablethumbs says

    D#100 and mildlymagnificent#109, thank you very much! I don’t know how receptive they’ll be, but it’s worth a try :-)

  94. thunk: Ex ludo, scientia says

    Giliell, Azkyroth, etc:

    Why of course, it’s really complicated.

    To each their own, and of course listen.

    Beatrice: it’s a UK/US difference thing. either should be acceptable.

    Giliell: oy, they haven’t got enough?

  95. Ogvorbis says

    How is it even possible to do shit like that? Shouldn’t there be some bill that says “one topic per bill blah blah [something about transparency]“.

    I’m sure there is. Let a Democrat come up with a somewhat related ammendment and watch how fast these criminals discover the rule. Or make one up on the spot. Which will then be forgotten when a GOP critter does worse.

    Chigau:

    Do you know where your towel is?

  96. yazikus says

    Tony,

    On dropping me at home, I pulled out $45.00 to cover my $36.75 ride and when I told him to keep the change, he did a double take, reminding me of the cost.

    First, seconding how much I enjoy reading your stories. People can be so amazing, and it is nice to hear vignettes like this one. Thank you!

    On tipping, I used to argue to my mother that my tipping was really tithing. You know, the money goes straight to the folks who need it and skips the middle man. Also, as someone who has worked in the service industry, I think I do tip better than most. My most recent change has been to start tipping 50% on smaller totals (like a latte or something) and 20%-30% on larger amounts. My partner and I had a great brunch a few weeks ago, and he tipped $30 on our $50 breakfast (blew my eating out budget to hell), but you know what? Our server was excellent, the food was great, and it was so worth it.

  97. yazikus says

    Chigau,

    I never travel without a wine key. They come in handy for all sorts of situations, wine related or not!

  98. cicely says

    Popes Making Popes Saints

    Orson Scott Card Responds to Ender’s Game Boycott With Ironic Plea for ‘Tolerance’

    Horde, I have mentioned the http://giftofmobility.org/ project as something atheists could support. As it happens, I have one of their PET hand-cranked wheelchairs to give away. It’s a test model with a wider wheelbase in back. It’d make an outdoor wheelchair, but not fit through a doorway easily. If you know of anyone near Springfield, Missouri, that could use it, I’ll donate and deliver it. It’s a bit rough, and not shiny and new. There was some Hordething that sounded like they could use it, but I can’t recall who. Thanks.

    Menyambal, that was probably me; but our tax refund bought me a sniny new wheelychair (not the Hoverchair10,000™, alas), so I am no longer in need of it; best to pass it on to someone else. Looks cool, though.

    rq, I agree with you that Tony would make an awesome columnist; but these days, on-Web would probably be a likelier medium than print.
     

    The caption’s a bit of a bother, but this is still a fantastic photo of camels.

    Shadowcamels.
    *reaching for paper and pencil; beginning Statting Process*
    They roam the desert wastes by night, sucking the life-giving moisture from the luckless and/or desperate fools who dare to leave the oases….
    -

  99. yazikus says

    Cicely,

    Shadowcamels.
    *reaching for paper and pencil; beginning Statting Process*
    They roam the desert wastes by night, sucking the life-giving moisture from the luckless and/or desperate fools who dare to leave the oases….

    I would totally read this novel. Camels were always my favorite animal growing up. I had the opportunity to visit Pushkar when I was a kid, and it was mind-blowing amazing. Camels ftw!

  100. blf says

    No cheese.

    No, no, it’s no peas. Not “no cheese” but no peas.

    And don’t forget yer towel. The mildly deranged penguin concurs, a towel is about as important as cheese.

  101. blf says

    It’s fecking tourist season here. Bloody bus is says its destination is Gare SNCF (train station). Fecking tourist gets on, asks (translated) “Is this the bus to the train station?” Then fumbles around for an eternity trying to get the correct change. And then not only cannot figure out how to use a contactless ticket validator, but also totally fails to follows the driver’s instructions until he does itself for the wannabe passenger.

    Next stop. Another clewless git. “Is this the bus to the train station?” And fumbles for the change…

    Repeat a third time…

    By then I was sorely tempted to interrupt the very courteous driver and say something like “No, this is a wheelie bin from the Vogon demolition fleet en route to the nearest black hole. All garbage aboard, please!”

  102. cicely says

    I used to think it was important to know the gender of people online, but after spending time here, I came to realize it is not important for me to know. I really do not know why I felt it important to be aware of.

    The usual first question asked about a baby is, “Is it a boy or a girl”, and it only goes on from there; not surprising that the same mental question crops up even in places/instances where it shouldn’t matter. Deep-set conditioning FTL!

    I wonder how Parrowing and bluentx are doing…

    Me, too. And JAL, and formerly-KOPD….

    I love Tony’s Stories. And I agree, you write a great column! The only thing even better would be if your bar were my local – or of course if we could all teleport to it at will, so it could be the local for the entire Horde. Can you imagine :-) ? It would be a concrete physical location for the Saloon :-D

    This would be a Great Goodness.

    Pteryxx!
    *earthwormy pouncehug*
    Damn, that’s all depressing.
    :( :( :(

    chigau
    Toothbrush/paste?

    yazikus, your link at 133…doesn’t.
    -

  103. Yellow Thursday says

    Not related to anything (but then, this is the Lounge): I just pre-ordered the blue-ray of Jesus Christ Superstar, starring Tim Minchin as Judas (just opened for preorder in the US). I’m so stoked. Now I just have to wait until the middle of September before it arrives. *cries*

  104. says

    Hey folks!

    Gosh I’m so threadrupt again… let’s see what I can do.

    Yay baby penguins, boo to heat! Fans and evaporative coolers here. On hot stormy days the cooler doesn’t really work and the doors swell shut from the humidity.

    rq, keep your kids to yourself!

    I am NOT getting into any horse/pea/peahorse/horsepea arguments. Not.

    FUCK RICK PERRY.

    Yay to Esteleth!

    Ing yay for moving,

    Hey Tony you should totally write a book!

    chigau, I always pack a small multi-tool when I can.

    Parrowing is I think on a really long multi-state vacation. She’s been on Twitter occasionally.

  105. Jackie, Ms. Paper if ya nasty says

    So, after mulling over Ophelia’s post about anonymity I’ve decided that she’s right. Because I was going through an adoption and my atheism was being used to attempt to stop the adoption at one point I was afraid of doxxing. Now, I’m not. I don’t tweet or FB. I still like my privacy. I’ve talked about very personal stuff on this site, including details about other people’s lives and I felt my anonymity protected me and mine from that being used against us or our friends. But the bloggers here who have contributed to my quality of life during a very rough time don’t have that protection. My best buddy recently moved and took the risk of finally living her life as a woman. She isn’t protected by anonymity. Several of the commenters here don’t have it. So, why should I have it?

    Hi!
    My name is Lea Tapp and I live in western KY with my husband, 4 kids, 3 dogs, 2 cats and for the meantime, 2 foster kittens. You can find me on G+, though I don’t often use it. I think very highly of the folks here and I appreciate the things you have opened my eyes too and stood for. I believe I’m a better person for having hung out here. Here’s hoping that trend continues!

  106. blf says

    Carl Anderson arguably owns the Judas role in Jesus Christ Superstar, but based on a few clips (some obviously bootleg with awful sound) I just found, Tim is having a fair right crack at it.

  107. yazikus says

    Hi Lea! I thought I recognized your gravatar over in the thread at patheos. Hopefully one day I’ll be brave enough to do the same.

  108. blf says

    The mildly deranged penguin has just found her anthem, Cheese, by Tim Minchin. Her main complaint (besides the lack of trebuchets) is there are no cannon shots or screams, despite the bad puns.

  109. Jackie, Ms. Paper if ya nasty says

    Yep, that’s me.

    Now I’m trying to decide if I can get to Skepticon in November. I may as well put a face to my name.

  110. Esteleth, the most colossal nerd on Pharyngula says

    Speaking of people who haven’t surfaced in awhile, has anyone seen/heard from katrenalra? Last she was here, she was ill, and I’m worried.

  111. says

    Jackie (went with this to avoid potential confusion for others searchin for the nym Lea):

    Revealing oneself online can have positive and negative outcomes. I judge no one for msking whatever choice they feel they have to. At the same time, what you have done is awesome in its show of support.

    You.
    Rock.

    (I worry the above could be seen as hidden criticism of those that choose anonymity and I want to say, again, that I support and respect anyone’s choice to stay anonymous)

  112. cicely says

    Now I’m trying to decide if I can get to Skepticon in November. I may as well put a face to my name.

    My face and name intend to be there!
    :)

    iJoe: A short bound.
    :D
    -

  113. rq says

    Wow, the thread exploded.

    Hi, Lea (aka Jackie)! :)

    cicely
    Please finish the camel story/novel. I would read it, too – heck, I’d even buy it! With real money! You’ve got a great hook for to reel us in with.

    yazikus
    How do you train a non-tipper to become a tipper? Husband is an avid (determined?) non-tipper – because if people in the serving industry wanted to be paid better, they’d work in different jobs. *facepalm* ([whisper] Then who will do all the serving? [/whisper])
    It’s their own fault for accepting a job that pays so little (and nary a word about how the restaurant/bar/[establishment] should just pay people better, if one wants to avoid tipping…). Oh, wait, he’s not a complete non-tipper – for exceptional service, he’ll leave a bit behind. Never mind that the whole point of tips is to make up the difference.
    I have to mention, though, that the post-Soviet culture here is pretty anti-tipping in general; just recently some establishments started adding a 10% mark-up for service onto their bill, and that was considered enough. Heh, I was used to Canada, where 15% was a bare minimum, 20% from a normally generous person was ok, and anything over 25% entered extremely decent to very generous territory.

    Improbable Joe
    Any interesting recipes to share?

  114. says

    rq

    Nothing too fancy. It is so so so so so so so hot here that cooking currently consists of grilled meat and a bag of salad with dressing on. We’ve come up with something we call “New Mexico Salad” though: one can each of diced tomatoes, corn, and beans, plus a little lime juice, cilantro, and chopped green chiles. Salt and pepper to taste, served cold to beat the heat!

  115. cicely says

    rq, if I could sustain any confidence in my ability to write it for more than, like, 10 minutes, I would do it. As a Public Service.
    Facebook entries and [Lounge] comments are more my speed.
    Alas.
     
    Good thing I noticed that that is an Onion article. I was all set to let fly with…let’s just say, some contrary opinions.
    -

  116. yazikus says

    rq
    Outside of leading by example, and him seeing the positive effect of better tipping, I am not sure. Especially if he hasn’t ever worked in the service industry. Many people work in the service industry because they love it, many because it is the only employment available, nevertheless, all people deserve a living wage and if I can help contribute to that I do it gladly.

    I think having friends who work service industry jobs would probably help, but it sounds like they might not run in your circles. I happen to live in a foody wine town, so there are lots of service industry people here who are also way into the food and wine culture, so if you are at all ‘out and about’ you are bound to be hanging out with them.

  117. David Marjanović says

    Not caught up.

    Petition to protect Indonesian rainforests by telling Kellogg’s to end its new partnership with the palm oil producer Wilmar, a company known to have been illegally logging in protected forests for decades.

    In some caves in the Pyrenees, there are human hand- and footprints that are tens of thousands of years old. Scientists from the University of Cologne and the Neanderthal Museum want to read those prints in detail: they want to know such things like if a trackmaker was ill or carrying stuff or in a haste… so they bring in the experts. The experts read tracks for a living, their names are Tsamkxao Cigae, C/wi /Kunta and C/wi G/aqo De!u, and they live in Namibia. Site in German.

  118. Jackie, Ms. Paper if ya nasty says

    Aw…shucks….
    Thanks.
    Que sera, sera.

    I like my handle, so feel free to call me by it. I’ll know who you mean either way.

  119. David Marjanović says

    Oh, a petition to all parties in the Austrian parliament. It’s in German and “against inhumanity”. What’s inhuman is how Austria treats refugees.

    Full text (my translation):

    It is inhuman that in Austria, one of the world’s richest countries,

    – well integrated people or families are deported or torn apart by the deportation of individual members,

    – asylum seekers who are able and willing to work are not legally allowed to work and do not have effective access to education,

    – asylum seekers only receive insufficient basic care and, in part, have to live under undignified conditions,

    – asylum seekers are insufficiently supported in the asylum process that is becoming more and more complex.

    – It is furthermore not acceptable that refugees are sent back and forth within the EU, have to live under conditions that sometimes violate human rights and endanger their health, and that the EU countries refuse to implement a solidary refugee policy.

    Only name and e-mail are required, no zip code or anything.

  120. David Marjanović says

    Oh: open-access paper! Abstract:

    “Megaherbivorous dinosaur coexistence on the Late Cretaceous island continent of Laramidia has long puzzled researchers, owing to the mystery of how so many large herbivores (6–8 sympatric species, in many instances) could coexist on such a small (4–7 million km²) landmass. Various explanations have been put forth, one of which–dietary niche partitioning–forms the focus of this study. Here, we apply traditional morphometric methods to the skulls of megaherbivorous dinosaurs from the Dinosaur Park Formation (upper Campanian) of Alberta to infer the ecomorphology of these animals and to test the niche partitioning hypothesis. We find evidence for niche partitioning not only among contemporaneous ankylosaurs, ceratopsids, and hadrosaurids, but also within these clades at the family and subfamily levels. Consubfamilial ceratopsids and hadrosaurids differ insignificantly in their inferred ecomorphologies, which may explain why they rarely overlap stratigraphically: interspecific competition prevented their coexistence.”

    Laramidia is western North America, separated from the east by a seaway from the Arctic Ocean to the Gulf of Mexico. The Campanian began 83.6 ± 0.2 million years ago and ended 72.1 ± 0.2 Ma ago.

  121. Sili says

    The experts read tracks for a living, their names are Tsamkxao Cigae, C/wi /Kunta and C/wi G/aqo De!u, and they live in Namibia. Site in German.

    About time.

    I sorta thought about this when visiting museums this week. Leaving the study of history to teh menz gives a horribly skewed understanding of it.

    Of course, I was being sexist too, since I was looking at old textiles and automatically considered in women’s work.

  122. John Morales says

    rq:

    ([whisper] Then who will do all the serving? [/whisper])

    I’d have no problem serving myself.

  123. Yellow Thursday says

    blf: I agree with you about Carl Anderson. I remember watching/listening to him play Judas for the first time when I was starting to doubt my faith. Not sure how much his presentation of Judas moved that along, but his performance was definitely moving.

    I’m a fan of Tim Minchin, and the clips that I’ve seen of him playing Judas have been amazing. Thanks for the link to “Cheese.” I hadn’t seen it yet.

  124. chigau (違う) says

    I know where both my towels are.
    Swiss army knife is in the checked luggage.
    I hate airports.

  125. Menyambal --- Ooo, look! A garage sale ... says

    Cicely, thanks. I am glad you got some good wheels.

    Chigau, I always pack a few bandanas in my kit—I don’t carry them on my person, usually, but they are handy. A washcloth is good, too—it’ll work as a towel, if needed, and is nice for cleaning your face in an airport sink (a sandwich bag is a good accessory for the washcloth).

  126. Nutmeg says

    Umm, hi. It’s been a while. *pouncehugs* to EVERYONE!

    I’m alive and submitting my thesis on Monday. I’ve been away from the Lounge for months because of writing, and I missed you all.

    I probably won’t be following closely for a couple of weeks yet (I’m submitting my thesis and then disappearing to the wilderness for a while). But I am pleased and relieved to see that so many familiar nyms are still here, and I’m looking forward to being here more often soon.

  127. rq says

    John Morales
    Generally, I agree – but a restaurant/bar situation is a bit different than working in your own kitchen… no?

    yazikus
    I’ve worked in the service industry, and I try to explain these things… but then, I’m married to him, it’s not like having a friend who still works in the serving industry for a living, since I was the (to him) typical example of a university student doing it temporarily, with options to work elsewhere.
    Anyway, I insist on tipping even when he doesn’t (and more when he only does it a little), so eventually we’ll compromise somewhere on the line between stingy and slightly generous.

    Tethys
    Oh, I saw that article! I’m just not entirely sure what they want to show with the research – that singing is good for you because of breath control like meditation? Okay. That singers synchronize their breathing, which means… something something? Not so sure.
    Because we’re not always allowed to synchronize our breathing, especially in long slow pieces where the audience needs to hear continuous sound – since you can’t actually do it in one breath (maybe someone out there can), we have to stagger our breathing, which is quite the opposite of synchronization.
    That some general synchronization can happen, yes, I agree – we’re all (hopefully) in time with the conductor, the conductor also sets the emotional pace/mood, and people’s heartbeats will accordingly speed up or slow down with breathing in or out. But I don’t see anything particularly unusual about the phenomenon; it’s just a matter of doing the same piece of music together, rather than some weird esoteric connection we suddenly feel with a higher plane and each other… which is where I feel that article is going. [/anecdotal experience]

    David
    Thanks for the link on reading tracks in caves. It sounds like a fantastic project, and I love the photos of inside the caves. But then, the Werner Herzog documentary Cave of Forgotten Dreams had me on the edge of tears throughout.

  128. John Morales says

    rq, there’s this thing here in Oz where one gains admittance via a “Gold Coin Donation”. No “donation”, no entry.

    But to answer your question, yes, there is a difference: in a bar or restaurant, I pay money to have the drink or food plonked in front of me. No pay, no drink or food.

  129. rq says

    Question: Is it possible to have reproduction without evolution (in the long run) and evolution without reproduction?

  130. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    since you can’t actually do it in one breath (maybe someone out there can)

    Besides the occasional male soloists I’ve heard who drag out notes through not just killing but skinning, butchering, marinating, and slow-pit-roasting the meter of the original work, presumably to show off. (Is there a reason everyone ELSE puts up with that? x.x)

    Eh, I don’t think I understand choral music very well. O.o

  131. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    John,

    Maybe I’m reading too much into rq’s comment, but I think she was pointing out the difference of taking food out of your own kitchen and setting it on the table, and taking food out of a restaurant kitchen, together with all the other guests putting their grubby hands on the plates and mucking about a restaurant kitchen (since there is no one to take over after the cook puts the food on the plate) … ew.

  132. John Morales says

    Beatrice, perhaps.

    (Though there are buffet places around, and generally people (even children) behave themselves reasonably well in them)

  133. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    rq,

    I don’t know if it’s actually called “swedish table”as we call it, when the food in a restaurant is put on large tables and guests serve themselves – I like it for being able to put on the plate only as much as I’m intending to eat, but the pushing and shoving are definitely a negative side.

    And even for that, you still need someone to take care that the containers and serving plates have enough food, that the tables are clean and so on.

  134. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    Ah, buffet, I forgot the word! Yeah, we call it “Swedish table”.

    Pushing and shoving are maybe too strong words for it, but it can get pretty crowded and you always have assholes who clean up the dessert plates and leave nothing but a stray crumb for those who were politely waiting to serve themselves dessert after eating everything else (mostly meant for hotels with set dinner schedule where you’re fucked if you don’t come to dinner first – but that’s probably because I’ve been to cheap hotels, in more expensive ones they probably take out more desserts).

    (sorry for the stream of thought writing)

  135. rq says

    Buffets have their own sort of charm, it’s true. But they’re a bit limited to carrying things that can easily be kept warm or that do not suffer from being left at room temperature.
    And yes, there’s still a clean-up – although I don’t know what the etiquette on tipping at a buffet is…? If there is one?

  136. says

    Ah, buffets. I know it’s a total etiquette breach, but we tend to “assign” someone to each section, and everyone tries a little bit of everything. We now do most of our meals at home “buffet style” — food’s on the counter, plates are here, utensils there, serve yourself — and it works great.

    (Yes, I haz a large family, why you ask?)

  137. John Morales says

    Some places have tip-jars — but (and this has been previously discussed, though it may have been as long ago as TET) here in Oz the cost of food includes living wages for waiting staff.

  138. says

    Good morning
    My kids are fun. We’re expecting temperatures of about 25°C today, but it’s still rather fresh right now. One kid left the house in nothing but undies and a dress, the other kid wearing warm track pants, a long-sleeved shirt AND a knitted sweater.

    +++
    I love buffets, but they’re only good for some kinds of food and occasions. Seriously, if I go to a really nice restaurant where I get a really nice meal made of prime ingredients together with a nice wine I don’t want to get up in search for my plate. I don’t go to a restaurant just for the food, i go there for the service as well. I am perfectly willing to pay for the fact that I don’t have to worry about anything. But as others I prefer to pay through the price of food, because they earn it, it’s not a charity. I still tip, which I consider optional for good service (and because hourly wages are not that high in service)

    +++
    thunk
    Sure. I don’t have any problem with most things that are currently gendered as such*. I don’t have a problem with pink, unicorns, spaceships, superheroes, cupcakes, or T-bone steaks.
    But you can’t use the concepts of masculinity and femininity without shitting on people, because they inherently imply that some things and therefore people who dig them are inherently more male/female than others.

    *there are exceptions which I’d file under toxic masculinity and toxic femininity

  139. rq says

    That’s the thing: I don’t mind paying for the service of being able to dine out in leisure without having to clean up afterwards or hunt for plates/utensils and/or scrounge for the good stuff during the experience. I’m mystified by people who do mind. And I don’t mind leaving behind a nice tip, because even if the server was a bit short or not always as fast as I would like, who am I to judge the reasons for those slip-ups? (Of course, excellent service gets a better tip… but poor service still gets a tip.)

    It’s like anyone who provides a service… They do something that you don’t want to do yourself, why should they be paid less/looked down on for this? I’ve been having a hard time teaching the boys not to laugh at the garbage pick-up workers, and they seem to be catching on (slowly): they don’t want to deal with the stinky stuff themselves, but for some reason it’s eminently ridiculable when somebody does deal with it, which just seems wrong because it’s so important for someone to deal with it. If any of that makes any sense.

  140. rq says

    That’s two bees down, several more million to go. At this pace, I’ll never manage to step on them all!

  141. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    This is a stupid thing to be proud of, but my little bit in fighting sexism at the workplace today:

    Colleague doesn’t want a woman coming to work at his office, because he needs help carrying computers and such occasionally. I told him that it’s stupid, and it’s not like the equipment weighs all that much these days (we have a cart, but it’s rarely available to us). We argued a bit, and I understand his frustration with the workload, but I don’t appreciate being told that my work should be “writing some tables and papers or something” because I’m a woman.

    Some guy had to bring in a printer, and because colleague wasn’t in his office, the man brought it to mine. Admittedly, it’s not the same as carrying it from the garage, but I brought it over to his office later(and really, it wouldn’t have been trouble to carry it from the garage either, I carry heavier bags for a longer way when going shopping for house stuff)… but it was a message that seriously, don’t be stupid.

    Er… but I did check that boss wasn’t around, since she thinks I’m a lady and should behave as such. Ok, that part is a bit of a fail.

  142. opposablethumbs says

    Nooo don’t step on the bees! We wants more bees, so we does.

    Wasps, now, are a very different matter. Stomp away. Set the horses on ‘em. Hell, threaten the little furry bastards with peas. Just don’t send them here.

  143. says

    Hi Nutmeg! *wavewave*

    In KevinKat related news *weasel war dance!!!* I get to see my girlfriend tonight it has been too long!

  144. rq says

    KevinKat
    I have some bee intestines with which you can gift her, should you feel like giving her something unique and special!

    opposablethumbs
    Sadly, wasps are unavailable so close to the ground at this time of year. Plus, they can sting repeatedly; bees are a one-shot deal.

    Beatrice
    *small cheer*
    At least you have a chance for the minor wins. And who knows, enough minor wins might eventually means something…

  145. carlie says

    Question: Is it possible to have reproduction without evolution (in the long run) and evolution without reproduction?

    Evolution without reproduction is known as “horizontal gene transfer”. The easiest example of that is how bacteria swap plasmids, tiny clusters of DNA that are not attached to the main chromosome. They can meet, conjugate (ooo la la) and duplicate and exchange their plasmids, so if one bacterium has plasmid A and another has plasmid B, after the meeting they each have both plasmids A and B. However, there have been no new bacteria made, so it’s not reproduction, although it is proper evolution, because if either of them spawn new bacteria in the future, those new bacteria will all have both plasmids. This is how multi-antiobiotic-resistant bacteria develop and swarm through hospitals so quickly. One patient with a penicillin resistant staph infection in room next to a patient with a cephalexin resistant staph infection, the doctor on rotations forgets to wash his hands between, and boom, you’ve got MRSA.

    You can also have reproduction without evolution; it’s called evolutionary stasis. In general this tends not to happen because even if there is no selection, genetic drift will usually happen because avoiding it means a large population size that is constantly mixing. However, the effects of drift can sometimes be functionally unnoticeable, so although you’d notice evolution if you ran a DNA analysis of every gene, you might not notice anything at all visibly or physiologically.

  146. says

    @rq:

    No thank you. I would have to be the one to slay the bees. Provide her with the trophies of my kills, you know?

  147. mildlymagnificent says

    Nooo don’t step on the bees! We wants more bees, so we does.

    Heard a city beekeeper on radio talking about this. When you “step on” a bee they’re at ground level – which means they’re already dying (unless you’re in a flowering lawn or other flowering groundcover). They’re normally not aggressive unless you really upset them.

  148. carlie says

    They’re normally not aggressive unless you really upset them.

    If they are ground-nesting bees, and you get too close to them with a lawnmower without realizing it, they will fly up your shorts and sting you in areas that are uncomfortably close to areas that you never wish to think about in the same sentence as bees. #LearnFromMyPain

  149. rq says

    mildlymagnificent
    Well, we have a flowering lawn. :/ It’s full of white clover in full bloom right now.
    And when the lawn’s not flowering, the bees are everywhere else and we don’t have any issue with them at all. I’m not blaming the bee for attacking my giant foot; I fully admit that I stepped on it because I was not looking for it to be where I wanted to place my foot.
    More bees is better.

    KevinKat
    Well, in case you want one, cheap (in case of emergency prowess demonstration), you know where to ask!

  150. mildlymagnificent says

    Oh, and Lone Ranger.

    I don’t know how younger people would respond to it, but for those old enough to have gone to Sat’dy flicks in the 50s and watched the serials while rolling Jaffas down the wood-floored aisles, it was fan.tas.tic.

    Every cliche you could have thought of from this exalted genre was there, including some musical ones like the William Tell Overture. Mr and I tried to add up all the chase/action cliches just to do with steam trains and ran out after a dozen or so. And then there were the explosions and the mines and the whorehouse and the entirely predictable plot twist and everything someone of our age could expect. But done with a light enough hand to make it enjoyable. (Not sure whether younger people who’ve seen these things neither at the fleapit local theatre nor on tv would enjoy it so much though.)

  151. rq says

    carlie
    Ouch! Wasps like to nest in the ground around raspberry brambles quite often (at least, as observed through experience). This made raspberry season and wargames at summer camp especially tense and action-packed.
    Back where I grew up in Canada, we had some ground-dwelling* bumble-bees that nested in the half-rotted tree stump (still in the ground) beside the firepit. What was most interesting was watching them crawl into the fire at night, one after the other, and burn up. [/strange]

    *By ‘ground-dwelling’, I mostly mean that they nested in pre-prepared hollows and rotted stumps, even when these were at/below ground level, rather than make their own nests like wasps do.

  152. chigau (違う) says

    Plane was three hours late.
    I’ll catch up later.
    I have two towels.

  153. Owen says

    Oh, the joys of travel. Incidentally, pro-tip from my recent vacation: if you are traveling with children you get to skip the backscatter x-ray machines and just go through a regular metal detector. Very glad I missed that act of the security theater…

  154. Yellow Thursday says

    I just noticed that today’s date (7/11/13) is made up of 3 consecutive prime numbers. Yes, I’m a geek.

  155. opposablethumbs says

    Plus, they can sting repeatedly;

    Exactly. Evil little disruptors that they are.
    My most wasp-infested summer ended up with a score of wasps 3, me 5. So I won. And foolish, foolish wasps – they failed to realise that after you’ve been stung a few times over the course of a few weeks it starts to hurt less, thus leaving their hapless victim better prepared to seek revenge. Mwahahaha.

  156. Ogvorbis says

    Oreo died last night. She is now buried under one of the flagstones in our garden.

  157. thunk: Ex ludo, scientia says

    Giliell:

    But you can’t use the concepts of masculinity and femininity without shitting on people, because they inherently imply that some things and therefore people who dig them are inherently more male/female than others.

    *there are exceptions which I’d file under toxic masculinity and toxic femininity

    ahhh, implications. Right; it’s more a matter of me holding on to totems of things traditionally considered feminine in an attempt to assuage my own insecurities; and this sort of thinking really is toxic, and probably making me worry more in an attempt to “prove” my gender is “real”. Not that that’s productive at all.

  158. Portia, in boots says

    Ogvorbis:

    I’m sorry : (

    I woke with a migraine. Delayed an eviction. Now I’m trying to decide whether to reschedule my two afternoon appointments so I can crash out. Not that I don’t have a ton of work to do. (I guess I shouldn’t complain)

    I have learned that I am on the radar of one of the most reputable law firms in the area. One of their attorneys is apparently asking around about me and getting good reviews. I don’t know what it means, exactly, or if I’m about to get a job offer. But it’s exciting in and of itself, that I have a reputation. I’m so used to being a nobody! Unlike a lot of young attorneys around here, I don’t have a parent or uncle or someone who is a BFD in the community. So this is just me. I’m going to savor this feeling and try to remember it to dig it out later in a downer moment.

  159. cicely says

    *pouncehugs&chocolate* for Nutmeg. Huzzah! for thesis.

    And even for that, you still need someone to take care that the containers and serving plates have enough food, that the tables are clean and so on.

    Also, where access to the beverages is restricted to employees, if your server isn’t keeping an eye out for your empty glass, it can be a problem. The Husband has real trouble with food not making the entire trip to the stomach without liquid encouragement; if he runs out, he can have a choking fit—alarming for everybody.
    These days (in the event that we go out to eat) I usually warn the server that their tip depends about 90% on keeping his glass filled, which generally gets satisfactory results for everyone.

    I’m mystified by people who do mind.

    Apparently the reasoning goes, “Why am I expected to pay them to do their job?!?”, with a chaser of, “Well, if they don’t feel that their pay is good enough, they should just quit and get some other job!!!”, served up with a huge helping of complete obliviousness.

    rq, why are you stepping on bees?

    Nooo don’t step on the bees! We wants more bees, so we does.
     
    Wasps, now, are a very different matter. Stomp away. Set the horses on ‘em. Hell, threaten the little furry bastards with peas. Just don’t send them here.

    Alla this.
     
    I’ve planted clover in my flowerbed, just for the bees’ benefit.

    KevinKat: “Weasel war dance”, hmmm? Video or it didn’t happen.
    :D :D :D
    And hurrah! for you getting to see your girlfriend.
    -

  160. cicely says

    *hugs* and sympathy for Ogvorbis.
    :(

    *hugs* and *excited dancing-around* for Portia.
    See! See! We told you that you’re not a nobody!
    :) :) :)
    -

  161. Chilly -warming myself in the flames says

    I’m sorry for your loss of Oreo, Orgvobis.

    Delurking and first-posting for Orgvobis. I hope you don’t think this is too presumptuous of me to jump in here like this. I want to thank you for being so open and sharing your story.

    I discovered Pharyngula a few years ago but would generally only read it very occasionally due to so many of the topics being triggering for me. I’ve been making progress on that front and for the last few months I’ve spent a lot of time reading here. Especially the Lounge, as it feels rather like a reason and compassion filled home I wish I’d had. :)

    It has been very moving to see you progressing through the painful memories and sounding more and more forgiving and comforting towards yourself. I’ve cried reading your posts and felt happiness for you and admiration at your courage in facing your memories. I had a pretty awful childhood and while the particulars of our experiences are different the facing grotesque inhumanity from a fellow human being is all too familiar. You deserve to have another human being sit with you, share your memories, look you in the eyes and tell you that what you suffered, all you experienced, was not your fault. I hope you can find someone AFK to trust with this.

    You have my gratitude for breaking the cycle of abuse and being the human being that you’ve chosen to be. As someone who was abused it really does mean the world to me to see another person who didn’t succumb to the inhumanity with which they were treated and who won’t be passing the poison on to future generations.

    Witnessing your strength and courage has buoyed me at a time when I’ve really needed it (I moved and have had to change therapists…eek!) so cheers for that as well.

    Again, I hope I’m not intruding overly, what with this being my first post here. Either way, please accept this:

    *baseball bat and pope shaped pinata filled with booze chocolates*

  162. chigau (違う) says

    Hugs, Oggie.
    and anyone else in need

    I’m here.
    63°26’N 109°11’W

  163. Chilly -warming myself in the flames says

    Thank you Tony! Its nice to be here.

    Just realized that I spelled your name wrong Ogvorbis. Apologies.

  164. Tethys says

    Hi Nutmeg!


    Hugs to Oggie on the loss of Oreo.

    Yay! for Kevinkat getting to see girlfriend.
    —-
    Thanks you cicely for the kind words in thunderdome. Son is doing better, though we had one bout of snarling this morning while cleaning out and organizing the garge.

    Me: Don’t put things on my car.
    He: Don’t tell me what to do!!!!!!!! Its rubber. Its fine!!! (but louder)
    Me: *mom look* This is a scratch, don’t put things on my car. *goes inside*

    He freaks out at the slightest hint of criticism. I am so mad at the military, but at least the VA has provided him with a good therapist. There are physical issues too from the military failing to do the proper gene testing before they gave him the anthrax vaccines. Kidney function is damaged.

    Fuck, I didn’t mean to say all that but now that I’m crying I realize how hard the last six months have been.
    Dealing with war/ military/ was never on my list of desired life experiences.
    ————

    Chigau

    Are kimberlite pipes in your immediate future?

  165. Sili says

    I just noticed that today’s date (7/11/13) is made up of 3 consecutive prime numbers. Yes, I’m a geek.

    Damn it’s hot here for November.

  166. yazikus says

    Damn it’s hot here for November.

    Also- that would be my birthday! I might as well celebrate!

  167. David Marjanović says

    Caught up since my previous comment.

    *hugs for Ogvorbis and Chilly*

    Umm, hi. It’s been a while. *pouncehugs* to EVERYONE!

    ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ ^_^

    I’m alive and submitting my thesis on Monday.

    Yaaaaay! :-) :-) :-)

    the Werner Herzog documentary Cave of Forgotten Dreams had me on the edge of tears throughout

    …why?

    (I haven’t watched it.)

    Beethoven was ahead of his time

    + 1

    conjugate (ooo la la)

    :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

    *baseball bat and pope shaped pinata filled with booze chocolates*

    Subthread won.

    There are physical issues too from the military failing to do the proper gene testing before they gave him the anthrax vaccines. Kidney function is damaged.

    *headdesk*

  168. Portia, in boots says

    Thanks Tony and Tethys :)

    *hugs* for Tethys.

    There was a guy I knew in college and had a brief relationship with. He went into the Army and is totally changed now. Of course, all the violence he saw has a lot to do with that. : /

    Best wishes for your son, Tethys.

  169. David Marjanović says

    There was a guy I knew in college and had a brief relationship with. He went into the Army and is totally changed now. Of course, all the violence he saw has a lot to do with that. : /

    My granduncle came back changed from the eastern front of WWII. Nobody wants to know what he has seen.

  170. Portia, in boots says

    *hugs* Dalillama

    David:
    Yeah, what happened to his unit in Afghanistan merited a personal visit to the FOB from Obama.

  171. yazikus says

    Portia
    Congratulations on your growing reputation! Question for you, I live in a small town, and if you are an attorney or other professional, the “old boys club” is still very much in action. You have to join the country club, go golfing, have drinks with the bankers, etc. Is it like that where you are?

  172. yazikus says

    On the military thing: My dad was a career military person, my brother was a marine for 10 years (he is also a libertarian toolbag), I have a sister who went into the military but was able to escape. I can say that yes, military culture changes people. I’ve steered clear of it myself. I think it can be work for some people, but for others it just magnifies already troubling character traits.

  173. Yellow Thursday says

    Damn it’s hot here for November.

    Yes, us Americans and our weird way of writing the date.

  174. Ogvorbis says

    Chilly:

    No, not presumptuous at all. Comments like yours make me feel like there really is just a little bit of good coming out of the emotional roller-coaster of the last few years. Thanks.

    And thanks to all for your sympathy. Oreo was a sweet cat. Very normal. She was the only cat we have had that actually acted like a cat.

    She had cancer. At nineteen years old, we were not going to go the surgery route. The vet told us that with that type of cancer, and its location, she was in very little pain. Less pain that the arthritis gave her. She weakened quickly and died last night.

    So we now have one-and-a-half cats and one large red-eared slider. And one 23-year-old student. Our menagerie shrinks.

  175. Chilly -warming myself in the flames says

    Thanks Tethys! *waves back spilling beverage* What you’ve been dealing with sounds rough. I hope things ease up for you.

    Hi cicely! The comfy chairs and chandeliers are more glitzy than I’d imagined from the exterior. Thanks for the refill.

    Thank you for the hugs David Marjanović.

  176. Portia, in boots says

    Ok, so, whoever could sprinkle anti-migraine dust on me would be my hero.
    I think this is an exhaustion headache.
    I rescheduled one appointment this afternoon to try to chill out a little.
    It’s not helping overmuch.
    /whiiiiiiine.

  177. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    *sprinkles anti-migraine dust*
    *sprinkles anti-depression dust*
    *sneezes*
    Sorry, this doesn’t seem to be working.

  178. Portia, in boots says

    Beatrice,
    Thanks for the effort.

    yazikus:
    It’s a bit like that, but not too terrible. I’m trying to learn how to golf for that purpose, though. There are a lot of older men who act that way, but a lot of people who don’t.

  179. yazikus says

    threadrupt!
    I just found a moth in my salad, y’all. There I was, about to take a big old bite when I look down at a huge wriggling, covered in salad dressing moth. In my salad, almost on my fork. Frantically flapping it’s ranch covered wings. I actually shrieked and my co-worker came running back to the break room because he thought I had stabbed myself or something.

    I feel bad for the moth now, I put him in the garbage. But how did he get in my salad????

  180. yazikus says

    Portia,

    It’s a bit like that, but not too terrible. I’m trying to learn how to golf for that purpose, though. There are a lot of older men who act that way, but a lot of people who don’t.

    I’m glad it isn’t too terrible there. Maybe it is more of a small town thing. I hope your migraine goes away! I’ve read several articles about how historically doctors never took migraines seriously because they were a “woman’s thing” and that we should know a lot more about them and have a way to cure them but don’t because it just hadn’t been thoroughly researched.

  181. Chilly -warming myself in the flames says

    Hi Portia and Dalillama. Hope both of your brains with their respective troubles are feeling soothed before long.

  182. Minnie The Finn, Fluffy Pink Bearer of Loose Morals says

    WELL HELLO LOUNGERS.

    —–

    Long time no see. Things are excellent in the frozen North (well, anything but frozen at the moment), my garden is growing like mad and life is treating us surprisingly well. Alas, no fainting (or exploding) goats yet. But any day now…

    How are you all doing?

  183. Chilly -warming myself in the flames says

    You’re very welcome Ogvorbis. Your sharing your story and the compassion with which others here have responded has had a very definite positive impact on me. I’ve been quite the isolated hermit type because of my crappy childhood and subsequent health problems so my poking my nose in the door here is no small achievement for me. I think that’s due to the qualities of the people here making it feel like a worthwhile move to make.

  184. blf says

    [H]ow did [a live moth] get in my salad?

    He was hungry, or else your salad was made of illuminated lightbulbs.

  185. cicely says

    I feel bad for the moth now, I put him in the garbage. But how did he get in my salad????

    He flew in. And boy were his wings tired.
    *big grin*
    Big ol’ straight line like that?

    Minnie!
    *earthwormypouncehug&chocolate*
    Speaking only for myself…overheated. Bleh!

    My mind won’t let the Shadowcamels alone…or perhaps, it is they who will not let my mind alone…..
    -

  186. blf says

    [W]hoever could sprinkle anti-migraine dust on me would be my hero.

    The mildly deranged penguin is loading up several shipping containers with something — not sure what, but since it’s not green I doubt it’s peas, and doesn’t smell much of anything, so probably not cheese — and will be sending them yer way soon by Trebuchet Express™. The biohazard symbol she’s painting on the side tends to confirm it’s not cheese (unless, I suppose, it’s British Industrial Cheddar, in which case I suggest finding a nuclear-bomb-proof shelter in a neighbouring galaxy).

    I’m not also not sure if the containers and their contents are supposed to land on or near you mostly intact (lumpy dust), or break up upon re-entry (dust shower).

  187. Portia, in boots says

    *watches the skies warily in case the case of dust doesn’t break up*

    thanks :)

  188. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    Is Pacific Rim worth watching?
    (and not just for Idris Elba)

  189. Minnie The Finn, Fluffy Pink Bearer of Loose Morals says

    Cicely!

    *pouncehug+chocolate+no peas*

    Sorry for the delay. My Internet melted just as I was about to pouncehug you. I hope it was not trying to tell me anything important.

  190. Esteleth, the most colossal nerd on Pharyngula says

    Idris Elba

    You imply that Idris Elba reading the phone book wouldn’t make $40 billion on opening night.

  191. Esteleth, the most colossal nerd on Pharyngula says

    My favorite thing about Idris Elba is all the people who watched The Wire and then saw an interview or something and then were all ZOMGBRIT?! It was adorable. Of course, I know a few who did the same thing about Dominic West, which is absurd, because his American accent was not as good as Elba’s.

    My second favorite thing was watching the racist Norse neopagans go apeshit about him being cast as Heimdall in Thor. Because apparently Heimdall is one of the primary gods the racist neopagans go ga-ga over, and him being played by a black guy just was too much. It was glorious to watch.

  192. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    You’re right, Esteleth, watching it just for Idris Elba is good enough reason.

  193. Portia, in boots says

    He was in Thor? He was in the Wire? must rewatch and watch, respectively. I loved Luther mainly because of him. Him and Alice.

  194. blf says

    Is Pacific Rim worth watching?

    Earthquakes, volcanoes, tsunamis, giant squid, Atlantis, pretty girls with no clothes on, whalers, antiwhalers, and lots of seawater. There’s plenty of things happening in, on, under, over, near, with, to, or about the Pacific Ocean, not just its rim.

    Not much cheese grows there. however, but it has all the fish shite poopyhead would ever want.

  195. rq says

    Portia
    Yay for you!!!! :)

    Hello, Chilly!

    David
    re: Cave of Forgotten Dreams
    … Because it’s a film about cave drawings and amazingness and it’s just so awesome. A testament to human creativity and ability and also just the cool wonder of Caves and… It’s one of those things that, for some reason, triggers huge emotional reactions in me. Like – humans did that, so many thousands of years ago, and we (I) are still around to see it and witness it. Something so huge and lasting and just plain fucking Amazing (to me).

    cicely
    Write the story! The Shadowcamels want their story to be told, no matter how long it will be. I’ll read!

    +++

    Turns out the bats are living under our roof. I have mixed feelings about this.

  196. cicely says

    Sorry for the delay. My Internet melted just as I was about to pouncehug you. I hope it was not trying to tell me anything important.
    I’m not that overheated!
    :D :D :D
    -

  197. rq says

    Idris Elba, mmm… *sigh*
    But for the phone book, I’d still go for Alan Rickman, with Benedict Cumberbatch in the breaks.
    Beatrice and I have a date for that. One day. ;)

  198. Ogvorbis says

    Hello, Minnie the Finn. Good to see you around.

    Did you plant any swedes in your garden?

  199. cicely says

    rq, I will at least toy with it.
     
    If only to get the Damned Shadowcamels out of my head.
     
    It’s a poor fit.
    :)
    -

  200. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    rq,

    Beatrice and I have a date for that. One day. ;)

    Of course, I’m holding you to that. We’ll get Alan Rickman there somehow.

  201. Minnie The Finn, Fluffy Pink Bearer of Loose Morals says

    Uncle Ogvorbis! Good to see you too =)

    Yes, we planted all the swedes we could lay our hands on. Some got away, but I have notified the border authorities.

    Apart from them, the garden is jam packed with (starting from the east in a clockwise direction around the house) tomatoes, strawberries, mint, dill, chives, parsley, radishes, carrots, haricot and string beans, peas *ducks*, corn, Brussels sprouts, cabbage, potatoes, more dill and parsley, rocket salad, more mint, basil, Thai basil, more potatoes, marjoram, more chives. Several varieties of chilies and sweet peppers in the hothouse. And potatoes. Plus the apple trees, and the black & red currant, gooseberry and raspberry bushes. And did I mention the potatoes?

  202. Ing:Intellectual Terrorist "Starting Tonight, People will Whine" says

    Funny story from work.

    “Those your keys?”
    Me “Yes”
    “It took all my will power not to steal them from you cause you left them laying about
    Me “No offense but doesn’t that speak more to your failings than mine?”

    Added irony I am now volunteered to help on the next team bonding/trust day event

  203. Minnie The Finn, Fluffy Pink Bearer of Loose Morals says

    Oh and Oggie, I also meant to ask, how have you been? Have you put out any interesting fires lately?

  204. Ogvorbis says

    Minnie:

    Sounds like a good garden.

    No, no fires. I’m on the call out list. Waiting.

  205. Chilly -warming myself in the flames says

    Hi, rq! I hope your grandma was alright during the great watering. I hadn’t realized what other people had to contend with until you posted those links in the last thread. The worst we had to deal with was my husband having to pour the water out of his shoes after his bike commute home.

  206. blf says

    peas *ducks*

    Peaducks? You crossed a horrid tasteless foul-tempered (and foul-textured) vicious awful vegetable with vicious (albeit tasty) wannabe ex-dinosaur?

    I presume they will keep all the bugs, cats, invading space reptilians, snails, and kraken away. Not too sure if they will also scare away the horses. I think you need crocoducks for that.

    And I’m unsure how yer going to harvest anything. The mildly deranged penguin suggests the usual — go into orbit and nuke it — but glow-in-the dark peaducks do not sound like an improvement.

    (The mildly deranged penguin denies any peaducks are in the incoming headache curing dust.)

  207. Minnie The Finn, Fluffy Pink Bearer of Loose Morals says

    blf: I was ducking because of that lethal Camembert missile I was sure was headed my way at supersonic speed.

    But peaducks sound much more fun. And they will fit right in with the self-immolating goatriches.

    No horses in the neighborhood since we have settled there. Shifty the Evil Kitteh is quite capable of keeping anything smaller than a T Rex at bay. Bruce the Beautiful (But Dim), on the other hand, met an elk in the yard one evening, rushed in and wouldn’t come out from under the bed for two days.

  208. chigau (違う) says

    Hi Minnie!
    Nice garden!
    My garden has potatoes, cucumbers, brussels sprouts, cucumbers, jalapeño peppers, carrots, peas (no apologies), dill, chives, garlic-chives, parsley, basil, mint, oregano, sage and probably other stuff.
    The kohlrabi died.

  209. Minnie The Finn, Fluffy Pink Bearer of Loose Morals says

    Hi Chigau!

    Sorry to hear about your kohlrabi. Our cucumbers joined the great pickle in the sky, too.

  210. Sili says

    I have to work the Monday after Rhinebeck (my schedule has just come up), so I’ll have to ask for time off if I’m going this year.

    As it stands, Dublin cost me more than hoped, so I may have to stay home this time.

  211. Antiochus Epiphanes says

    Your eyes will pop out.

    Well, one of them anyway. I wonder if it had lips.

  212. Portia, in boots says

    Thanks, Dalillama and chigau. Much appreciated.

    I don’t know what a butter-tart is, but it sounds like something I would snarf down dangerously fast.
    *googles*
    *drools*
    Thanks chigau :)

    Apparently I needed to have myself a little self-pitying cry about not having anyone to tend to me and my migraine. Between that and a phone call from my mom, I felt well enough to make some popcorn. So now I won’t be starving on the list of reasons I’m miserable. And the head is at least temporarily better. The heat of the day has broken, so I’m not as uncomfortable laying around. Baby steps.

  213. cicely says

    Apart from them, the garden is jam packed with (starting from the east in a clockwise direction around the house) […]*ducks*, […]

    They always put up such a struggle when I try to plant ‘em, it’s hardly worth the trouble.

    The mildly deranged penguin suggests the usual — go into orbit and nuke it — but glow-in-the dark peaducks do not sound like an improvement.

    Indeed! Why risk giving them an Origin?

    *metric fucktonn of hugs* for Portia, *earthworms* optional.
    Bummed-with-a-concrete-cause? Free-floating-bummed-for-no-adequately-explained-reason? MYOB-bummed? I only ask for purposes of *hug* calibration.
    -

  214. Portia, in boots says

    cicely:

    1 part pure migraine-induced self-pity, 1 part this-would-have-been-our-three-year-anniversary bummed, 1 part if-I-hadn’t-been-guilted-into-moving-here-by-S-I-wouldn’t-be-so-far-from-my-mama-and-she-could-bring-me-an-ice-pack bummed, and some part free-floating not-sure-why bummed, it’s been coming and going a lot lately.

    Thanks for asking, really. I’m bracing myself for the incoming hugs :)

  215. Portia, in boots says

    *womph*
    *snuggles under the large pile of hugs*
    *wishes pot was legal because it might be an amazing headache remedy if she could only try it without fear of repercussions*
    (Yeah, I’m already paranoid, imagine if I smoked ^_^)

  216. Ing:Intellectual Terrorist "Starting Tonight, People will Whine" says

    Introverts: I am aiding in planning next team building/employee appriciation day. Give me brainstorming ideas for activities that won’t make you wish you called in sick

  217. Portia, in boots says

    Ing:

    Trivia is always fun for me. You don’t have to think of things to talk about with people and you always have something to actually be busy with, instead of having to invent something to pretend to be busy with. And just sitting quietly letting your teammates answer is an option if you really want to. Others may disagree, and it may be too detail-intensive to put together. It was just the first thing that came to mind. Good luck!

  218. Jackie, Ms. Paper if ya nasty says

    WMDKitty,
    I’m sniffing my ISB port to get a virtual contact high off of that virtual joint.
    As I don’t know what a virtual high is like, I’ll assume I was successful.
    Yay! Now I have an excuse to snack on Bagel Chips!

    Portia,
    ((hugs))

    The kids are in bed. I’m going to pour a fruity beverage (I’ll add rum just to kill any germs) and watch Django with my mister. I have avoided it for a while, but a trusted friend told me it was better than Reservoir Dogs. That, I gotta see to believe.

    XOXO, sweeties!

    PS. I think it is time I accepted the truth. No one is adopting these kittens. I found out that the ones we hand raised and returned got dumped at the pound. These two will not go back to whence they came. FML, I think I have 4 cats. …where’s that rum?

  219. Portia, in boots says

    Jackie:

    thanks. Forgot to join the high-five chorus on your de-nonymizing :)

    good for you for keeping the kittehs, hope it’s not a burden on you.

    I have a pro bono client who will be homeless in two weeks and there’s not a damn thing I can do about it. Pass some rum?

  220. ImaginesABeach says

    Ing – as an introvert, I can tell you that my favorite part of “team building” is leaving at the end of it.

  221. cicely says

    I found out that the ones we hand raised and returned got dumped at the pound.

    :( :( :(

    I have a pro bono client who will be homeless in two weeks and there’s not a damn thing I can do about it. Pass some rum?

    :( :( :( :( :(
    -

  222. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Introverts: I am aiding in planning next team building/employee appriciation day. Give me brainstorming ideas for activities that won’t make you wish you called in sick

    Offer at least one option that isn’t a competition.

  223. Portia, in boots says

    Whew I’m a downer! Let’s see…this is interesting, so far. Love me some Dirty Dancing.

  224. Jackie, Ms. Paper if ya nasty says

    Virtual rum for all my friends!!!

    Burden? Bah! What’s a couple more messy, pooping things in this house? Plus, the teenage scarp gets the poop jobs. She’s paid a smidge for it and she uses it as leverage against me. As in, if I piss her off I am threatened with having my shoes filled with doodies. She means it too.
    :) That’s my girl.
    We raised her right, we did.

  225. Portia, in boots says

    Jackie: that’s pretty funny.

    One appealing element of parenthood for me: assigning chores ^_^

  226. says

    Hey Jackie, I’m at four cats and a dog. One of the cats pees on everything, one of them sticks her head in the litter box and then poops on the floor, one of them wakes me up every morning by going EEEEERRRG in my face, and one of them is constantly assaulting the other three. And the dog got loose, jumped over the wall into the neighbors yard, and continued jumping walls until she hit the open desert and didn’t come back for a half hour.

    So I know your pain.

  227. Portia, in boots says

    I’m going to turn in now. I think the melatonin is cutting through the long nap I took earlier to fight the migraine, which is all but gone now.

    I can’t say how much I appreciate all the commiseration and hugs and conversation here. Y’all are pretty wonderful, thanks. Hope everyone’s night/afternoon/dawn/dusk/twilight/morning/evening is lovely.

  228. ImaginesABeach says

    Jackie – just tonight, my GirlChild (age 14) asked me if I regret raising her to be the way she is – independent and sometimes sassy. I told her never. Which is mostly true.

  229. Tethys says

    One of the most enjoyable group exercises I have been required to participate in was conducted by a theater troupe.

    It’s very simple, but it does make you think.

    You have to tell a story. One person starts with a sentence or two that sets the tone. Be creative. The next person adds to it, until everyone has contributed and the story has an ending.

    There is only one rule. You cannot deny or do anything negative to anyone else’s contribution, you are only allowed to build on it.

  230. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Another one that’s pretty good: have people give their name, something relevant (this was in a college setting, so, our major and graduation date, adapt to business environment as needed), and then tell three things about themselves, two of which are supposed to be true and one of which is supposed to be a believable lie – then have the group guess which is the untrue one. I guess this is more specifically an “icebreaker” exercise than a team-building one, though.

    Later in that session they had us break up into teams of five and do an overview plan of a company party. Maybe some kind of open-ended but concrete “sandbox” planning exercise would be good?

  231. says

    Team building exercises always go over well with alcohol. Have it at the local bar. J/k

    I could probably think of something any other time but darnit I am coming up blank.

    ****
    Found another atheist coworker yesterday.
    Trained a new bartender tonight who spoke of having doubts about her religious beliefs so you know I had to wedge my opinion in a little bit. Nothing too extreme, just the “there are X many religions, how do you know which to choose and why believe that over the others”. Never told her I am atheist (still in the south), but said I am not very religious. She did not bat an eyelash.

    In some ways, it feels like trying to come out of another closet. I already did that once, when I was @20. Not thrilled to do it again.

    ::sits in corner and pouts about the unfair world::
    ****
    I hate fleas. These fuckers never die. They are in the carpets. The cats have far fewer and one dog (Sham) is an American Bulldog, so his short hair sees few fleas. My girl Krystal though? Long haired, white Lab/? mix with plenty of nooks and crannies for those fuckers. I flea comb them all nightly and they get flea medication once a month, but fuck this is annoying. I wish I could replace the carpet.
    Oh and the fleas have taken a liking to me. Right leg has [counts quickly] 11 bites right at sock level.
    #fuckingfleas
    ****

    Minnie:
    Forgot to say hello.
    Bad bald gay man. I deserve a spanking.

  232. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    Another one that’s pretty good: have people give their name, something relevant (this was in a college setting, so, our major and graduation date, adapt to business environment as needed), and then tell three things about themselves, two of which are supposed to be true and one of which is supposed to be a believable lie – then have the group guess which is the untrue one. I guess this is more specifically an “icebreaker” exercise than a team-building one, though.

    Heh. I’d do some stupid project over this any day.
    Sharing… *shudder*

    A team-building project that I didn’t participate in, but heard about and seen photos, and it seemed fun:
    A couple of groups, each has to build part of a town with cardboard, papers and stuff. Then they put it all together together to get a whole functioning city.

    (fun fact: looking at the end product, it looked nice and you had schools and hospitals and play grounds… but virtually no apartment buildings. I guess those were just too ordinary for anyone to decide to make.)

  233. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    It also seems pretty good to me in terms of letting people just do their thing if they don’t feel too much like interacting with others – you get into making your little trees and just drop communication to a minimum while concentrating on your task… Or you can chat away with a similarly inclined coworker.

  234. Nutmeg says

    Eeeeeeee! Look at all the people I’ve missed! (It’s been a long time. I’m not sure I remember how to blockquote or do links. Yikes. I’ll get back into this slowly.)

    ***

    I did lots of team-building exercises at summer camp as a teenager, but none that I would recommend as introvert-friendly or even basically decent. Seriously, fuck “trust falls”. *shudders*

    I like Azkyroth’s suggestion of “two truths and a lie”, though.

    ***

    My adviser has my thesis until sometime tomorrow night, so I have nothing to do. This is a very strange feeling. I was relaxed for about 30 minutes after I sent it to her last night, and then I found other things to worry about. Oh well.

  235. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Introverts: I am aiding in planning next team building/employee appriciation day. Give me brainstorming ideas for activities that won’t make you wish you called in sick

    …oh, right.

    Cards Against Humanity? 0-:)

  236. rq says

    Belated *hugs* for Portia!! (Yeah, sorry, bed was calling and I just couldn’t resist.)
    And these are butter tarts and they are sooo delicious, and I just realized I haven’t had one in years n years!!

    Chilly
    Thanks for asking, my grandma is ok – apparently some minor flooding in the basement, and power was out for a very short while (she’s over on the west side of town near High Park). I’m glad you’re ok! And yeah, the photos were stunning.

    *hugs* to all the parents with amazing children that they have raised, I love your stories and I consider you all an inspiration (this goes out to but is not limited to Jackie, ImaginesABeach, Giliell, Azkyroth, etc.).

    +++

    I get to anticipate a great conversation with my dad about the Christian upbringing of my children, and I have no idea how to prepare for it or how to deal with it, but I get to be anxious about it for several months as he flies back to Canada today. Boy, nothing like background anxiety to make my life even better right now.

  237. opposablethumbs says

    Welcome to the Lounge, Chilly. Good to meet you.
    .
    Hey Nutmeg! Good to see you again! And congratulations on handing in your thesis, that’s wonderful!
    .
    Portia I have to say I’m not surprised you’re getting a rep – for being Very Very Good. The paternalistic old fogeys around soon won’t be able to see you for dust.
    Some of it may be anti-migraine dust or possibly the remains of whatever was in the trebuchet; the effect should be beneficial.
    Also, multipurpose hugs on their way.
    .
    Tethys, I’m so sorry your son and you have so much deconditioning and damage repair to cope with. I hope you are OK, and that the situation gets better – glad he has a good therapist at least.
    .
    Shit, Dalillama, I’m really sorry things are like that for you :-(. I hope so much that you and yours will get some breaks soon, dammit.
    .
    rq, Beatrice and Cicely, I’ll be right behind you.
    .
    chigau, maybe it’s the wrong kind of soil for apologies.

  238. says

    Good morning

    *pouncehug* Minnie

    *softhugs* Portia

    *hugs* Ogvorbis

    Teambuilding/get to know exercises
    Caveat: Those sadly presuppose that everybody is more or less able-bodied, so it depends on your group

    Gordic knot: People are standing in a tight group, they close their eayes and everybody grabs somebody else’s hand. Now you have to try and get everybody into a circle. People have to communicate and cooperate. An advantage is that you as the one organizing it can get a good overview about the group, too: who is very active, who isn’t? Is there somebody who’s very bossy?

    Living memory (this needs a fairly large group): You prepare cards with the titles of well known stories or movies (fairy tales and such). Two team members are players and leave the room. The others line up in two rows facing each other. Those opposite each other are a memory pair. Each pair is given a card and they have to think about a gesture and a sound that fits their card. For example we had Alice in Wonderland, so we “drank” something and went to our knees to indicate shrinking. Then everybody walks around so the cards get mixed. The players come in. They can always tip two people on the shoulder for “turning” the card and they make their gesture/sound. Plays like ordinary memory and is great fun.

  239. rq says

    Tony
    The Gordic knot one (from experience) is a lot of fun. And (dundunDUNNN!!) you don’t always get just one circle. But yeah, it’s a lot of physical contact and ability.

    opposablethumbs
    You don’t have to sit behind us. You can sit next to us! :)

    Also, belatedly, thanks to carlie for yesterday’s answer about reproduction and evolution. It helped (and rekindled other dormant knowledge).

    re: teambuilding
    Beatrice’s building-from-cardboard idea seems a pretty good one, too, especially if you limit their resources – only so many popsicle sticks, only so much tape – and then see what each groups comes up with. Maybe adding a sort of trading element (for co-operation among groups) might help. But that probably turns it into a long real-life Settlers sort of game…

  240. says

    As I frequently do before bed, I catch up on news, much of which is rage inducing. As I read through various Think Progress articles, I started to wonder about the various bills proposed or backed by Republicans. How often does a proposed Republican piece of legislation NOT shit on US citizens?

  241. says

    Yeah, ability is a big problem. the thing is that for able-bodied people, especially adults getting them to move can really be very helpful. Only it breaks down when you have to be and want to be inclusive.

    Another one is where people have to find things they have in common, although I’d choose non-loaded things like ice-cream flavours, cake, pie or cupcakes, favourite colours, favourite season…

  242. says

    Also, fun with gramar.
    I’m revising for a Spanish exam. The gramar explains that “infinite constructions are used to shorten sentences”.
    And then gives an example where the infitie construction is longer than the original finite one….

  243. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    *sigh*
    It’s getting harder to even bother trying to put my “people face” on. I think I’m pretty much just making a grimace anyway.

  244. carlie says

    Teambuilding – this is nothing like the typical ones, but you could have them get into groups and, within each group, decide the one thing they hate most about the office and how to fix it. Everybody likes to gripe, and nothing brings people together like talking about shared misery, and it might end up even having some real-world productivity if their solution is a good one that can be implemented. :)

  245. opposablethumbs says

    That sounds like a really good idea to me, and one that could be really productive! … although you might have to be careful that the thing they hate most about the office doesn’t turn out to be a person … :-\

    maybe have a rule specifically to exclude that ;-)

  246. says

    So I had a lovely evening with my girlfriend. We sat around chatting for about three hours about stuff. I’m totally head-over-heels about this woman.

  247. Ogvorbis says

    So last night, we had dinner (ragu bolognese over spaghetti) and then I retired to the front porch to smoke a Macanudo White Churchill and sip two fingers of Dewars White Label. So I dropped the glass of Scotch. Some splashed on my shorts, some on the porch. Boy refilled my glass. And the cigar and Scotch were good.

    Then, as I finished my Scotch (still had half a cigar) and Wife came out and asked if I were sober enough to drive. Sure. No problem. Why? Girl’s boyfriend’s car just lost its transmission — a 1999 Neon with about 190k miles so it owes him nothing. So we got to go pick them up, wait with them for the tow, and then took them to the grocery store and then home. Fun evening.

    I did finish my cigar after.

  248. Esteleth, the most colossal nerd on Pharyngula says

    Re: team-building/ice-breakers:

    The game A Great Wind Blows is always fun.

    Works like this: everyone stands in a circle. One stands in the middle and says, “A great wind blows for anyone who [something that is true of themself].” Anyone for whom that is also true must leave their space in the circle and move to a newly-vacated spot, and the person in the middle must also claim a spot in the circle. Of course, there will be someone left in the middle. Repeat.

    I learned to play AGWB in college, where it was played by members of the SF/F club. When we weren’t playing Legolas v. Superman, that is.

  249. Jackie, Ms. Paper if ya nasty says

    Well, Django was good, but I don’t think it was better than Reservoir Dogs good.

    Portia,
    Yeah, it’s only funny until I make her angry. I don’t think I’ll like her when she’s angry. ;)

    Improbable Joe,
    You do know my pain!

    ImaginesABeach,
    No regrets here, either. The poop-in-the-shoes thing is kind of a running gag in our house. (I think it’s a gag…I hope it’s a gag.) I used to tell her that if she told me “No” she better be ready to explain herself. I still remember the first time she successfully argued with me. She was still riding in car seats. I was so proud. Shortly after that I placed a moratorium of the word, “Actually”, though. I was starting to cringe when I heard it. Her youngest brother prefers, “Come on! Are you kidding me?” I think those words are going to start making me twitch. He especially likes to use them when we’re playing chess or when I want him to climb off of something he’s scurried up like a caffeinated squirrel. Remember the kid from “Please, Don’t Eat the Daisies” who says, “You didn’t tell me not to put a chair on my head.”? He’s that kid.

    Tony,
    Fleas are the worst. Just saying the word makes me itch. Sounds like you may need a bug bomb.

    Tethys,
    I’m sorry your family is having such a rough time. I hope things get better soon.

    WMDkitty,
    I wish an internet hug could make the pain go away. ((Hug))

    Beatrice,
    I used to do customer service. It pretty much soured me on dealing with people. I think having to force a smile all day is a kind of torture. I say, grimace away!

    Ogvobis,
    *Responsibility fist bump* Sounds like you saved the day. That’s awesome.

    Kevin Kat,
    Yay!

  250. Tethys says

    Thank you everyone for the well-wishes.

    If anyone has good information on the harmful effects of anthrax vaccinations, I would be most grateful.
    The VA seems to be almost worthless for medical care.

  251. Ogvorbis says

    *Responsibility fist bump* Sounds like you saved the day. That’s awesome.

    Just doing what parents do.

  252. says

    Tethys:
    Your talk of the effects the military had on your son remind me how M used to speak harshly about the Army. He served two tours of duty in Iraq and when he got out, there was no program in place to ease soldiers back into civilian life. Not job wise, but socially. No method of dealing with the nightmares he had. Its no wonder he had a substance abuse problem.
    I miss my buddy.

  253. Portia, in boots says

    Remember the teams we built when I beat Portia hands down…let Portia think I was beaten?

    Rupt but cannot let this go unchallenged!!! I have never lost at Pictionary, much less to a SHOOP!!!! Nevar!!!!!

    Elebenty!!!!!!

  254. Portia, in boots says

    Shortly after that I placed a moratorium of the word, “Actually”, though. I was starting to cringe when I heard it.

    My nieces say “I know.” in response to almost everything, even things they clearly didn’t know and couldn’t have known. It drives me batty sometimes.

  255. says

    I had a bizarre and annoying dream that I’m only thinking will become reality at some time… I was arguing with my fundie family about atheism after my grandmother decided to hand me a pamphlet about how we know angels are real. Passions got high, I got mad, and I was basically being hounded by five people all of whom were against me. I was making all the right responses to their arguments, and it was clear they weren’t listening.

    Of course now I’m all worried something like that’s going to happen in real life.

  256. David Marjanović says

    *heap of warm hugs*

    The hobbit.

    Petition to US Congress: “H.R. 1565, the bipartisan Manchin-Toomey background check bill, seeks to close the gun show loophole and prevent anyone with a violent criminal record from buying a gun without being screened. There are already 179 cosponsors in the House – this can pass, but we must demand a vote.”

    Petition to US Senate: “Congress must not stand in the way of EPA efforts to protect us from toxic coal ash. Oppose any attempt to stop the EPA from regulating toxic coal ash as a hazardous waste.”

    And another: “Elizabeth Warren introduced a new Glass-Steagall bill to stop Wall Street banks from gambling with the life savings of regular families.

    It will also help prevent future bailouts.”

    The kohlrabi died.

    :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(

    Another one that’s pretty good: have people give their name, something relevant (this was in a college setting, so, our major and graduation date, adapt to business environment as needed), and then tell three things about themselves, two of which are supposed to be true and one of which is supposed to be a believable lie – then have the group guess which is the untrue one.

    …I’m not creative enough to come up with a random lie on demand, let alone a believable one. :-S

    I’m not sure I remember how to blockquote or do links. Yikes.

    :-) Hint: it’s ordinary HTML.

    KevinKat
    EeeeeeEEEEEeeeee!! :)

    Seconded.

  257. says

    An update on mormon polygamy in Canada: In 2009 Winston Blackmore and James Oler, the leaders of a polygamous community with ties to Warren Jeff’s groups in the USA, were charged with polygamy, but the case was thrown out on a technicality. Nevertheless, the court proceedings pulled the covers back on a community that indulged in human trafficking, child abuse, and other religiously-motivated mayhem.

    Canadian officials did not give up after the first case was thrown out.

    A Canadian investigation into possible sexual abuse of children in a polygamous commune in British Columbia has been handed over to a special prosecutor.

    Canadian judicial officials say it will likely take several months until the prosecutor reviews the documents and makes a decision on whether to file charges. The alleged sexual abuse occurred in the 1980s.

    The Royal Canadian Mounted Police have been investigating plural marriages in the polygamous community of Bountiful for nearly two decades. The residents in question are a branch of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, whose home base is found along the Utah-Arizona line. Judicial officials say the Mounties expect get more information in the coming months about what was going on in the community….

    The prosecutor will consider charges of human trafficking, child exploitation and polygamy.

    Salt Lake Tribune link.

  258. David Marjanović says

    US citizens and permanent resident aliens, donate to the campaign against Mitch McConnell. I don’t know who it’s for – and I don’t think I care.

  259. Esteleth, the most colossal nerd on Pharyngula says

    So. Plans have been made with teh neighbor.

    We’re going to see the Mormon Show (check out those WTF costumes!) tonight.

    And it is going to be fucking amazing.

  260. says

    Steve Benson recounts a Colorado River trip in the company of scientists, including Eugenie Scott. Benson’s main thrust is that critical thinkers use language more precisely than theists.

    http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,953112

    Excerpt:

    Scott: ‘I’m calling on scientists to be citizens. American education is decentralized. Which means it’s politicized. To make a change . . . you have to be a citizen who pays attention to local elections and votes [for] the right people. You can’t just sit back and expect that the magnificence of science will reveal itself and everybody will . . . accept the science.”

    [Benson] I suspect that theists prefer that atheists process like theists do; namely, in terms and context of “belief.” Theists are big into “belief”-thinking (a true oxymoron) and seek to control the court by telling atheists that they (atheists) “believe” in their own “religion” of atheism. Religious processing of ideas through the use of “belief” language is the only kind of lingo that theists really know and feel comfortable with. It is a familiar, thumb-sucking Linus-like blanket to them.

  261. blf says

    [C]ritical thinkers use language more precisely than theists.

    I suspect you can both generalize that, and that that is an overgeneralization.

    It is, I suspect, an overgeneralization in that it’s unlikely to apply all the time. For instance, “typical” (or at least similar) imprecise use might be seen in areas far removed from their expertise, in highly emotional circumstances, in conversations not perceived as serious/critical/whatever, or simply just for fun.

    And I wouldn’t limit the “other side” to just theists. That is perhaps an indicator of likelihood of imprecise usage, but there are people perfectly competent in some areas who also happen to be theists. And I suspect there are non-theists who are “just as” sloppy.

    However, one has to be careful to distinguish precision of usage and logical reasoning abilities. Some people can be quite precise and deliberate talking absolute rubbish. And there are certainly people very interested in reality who lack precision (I’d classify too many of my conversations at the bar as perhaps being like that (and not saying who is being imprecise (or why))).

  262. blf says

    Well, firstly, I, for one, actually know what I know.

    Like, are you sure yer not actually drunk?

    (My pet peeve is like. I once overheard a conversation between two university students where 9 of every ten words was “like”. Like, so it liked seemed like, like.)

  263. cicely says

    Funny. Or at least mildly humorous.

    Hey, Tony, how come you’re hogging alla the atheist co-workers? Share some of that godless wealth!
    :D

    *gentle scritches* for WMDKitty, accompanied by sympathetic murmurs.

    rq, I managed to completely avoid having the Christian Upbringing Talk—by simply avoiding physical proximity to Parent altogether. Worked like a charm, but not necessarily usable for everybody.
     
    Opalised not-quite-squid is cool.

    *hugs* for Beatrice.

    I like carlie’s idea @ 326.

    KevinKat, I’m glad you had a good time.
    :)
    -

  264. says

    Ing

    .Introverts: I am aiding in planning next team building/employee appriciation day. Give me brainstorming ideas for activities that won’t make you wish you called in sick

    Unfortunately, calling in sick is about the only one I can think of that meets that criterion. The only thing I can think of is to ensure that there are refreshments available and than none of the activities go on very long.
    Tony

    How often does a proposed Republican piece of legislation NOT shit on US citizens?

    I think never, but they might have proposed a few that only shit on foreigners. It would be hard, though, because most of the shitting on foreigners costs U.S. tax dollars, and thus involves shitting on us too.
    Beatrice

    *sigh*
    It’s getting harder to even bother trying to put my “people face” on. I think I’m pretty much just making a grimace anyway.

    I hear you. These days my ‘people face’ means not actively looking like I want to kill something.
     
    This is largely due to the above mentioned mood problems, not helped by the fact that on top of my personal and financial difficulties, the fucking mice keep getting in somehow.

  265. says

    So, I have to now go to my colleague and ask if she was intentionally trying to exclude me from a get together for our departing supervisor. I’m vegetarian and she knows it, and she agreed to Hill Country BBQ for a going away luncheon.

    There’s like… NOTHING on that menu that’s vegetarian.

  266. blf says

    [T]he fucking mice keep getting in somehow.

    The male getting in is prerequisite for fucking.

  267. Ing:Intellectual Terrorist "Starting Tonight, People will Whine" says

    So the current team builder is going to be a picnic outside our building so outdoor activities. Boss is thinking one thing as tug of war, other is a sort of scavenger hunt or treasure hunt event where each marker has parts of a riddle to be answered. I suggested something like that figuring it’s easy for people to not participate while still taking a nice walk if they want. Thoughts?

  268. Ogvorbis says

    Like, are you sure yer not actually drunk?

    Like, well, firstly, I, for one, am, y’know, at, like, work, so, I know that, like, when I’m, y’know, working, I actually can’t be, y’know, drunk, right?

    [T]he fucking mice keep getting in somehow.

    Kinda, y’know, actually pretty, like, hard to operate the, like, computer and all without the mice, y’know?

  269. Dr Pepper says

    only group exercises i’m familiar with are frps, and i’d be happy to run one of those. otherwise “team building” makes me think of the 70s and the so called human potentail movement. I had a high school teacher who did that. It felt really painful and fake, Hey everybody say something nice, everybody hug. Yeah, no thanks. One good thing about not having a real job is not having to deal with that.

  270. Dr Pepper says

    or is keeping up with these posts a regular job? if so, i demand regular bathroom breaks.

  271. Dr Pepper says

    Sorry about Elaine Morgan. I hope she has plenty of finger webbing up there, an endless supply of little molluscs to snack on, and plenty of practice having sex standing up.

  272. Ing:Intellectual Terrorist "Starting Tonight, People will Whine" says

    Yes the teambuilding is stupid but it’s going to happen and I’m trying to make it less horrible for people

    That’s why boss and I are taking it over from the service we got before that had us picking up chapstick with chop stick and moving stuff via spoons in mouth and all that.

    ———————————-

    Sidenote: Am I the only person on earth who loaths Ender’s Game? It’s like a perfect storm of shit I hate

  273. Portia, in boots says

    I’ve never read Ender’s Game but I’ve heard several references to it being racist and awful. Is that one of the reasons you hate it, Ing? I’m interested in hating on it.

  274. dianne says

    Portia: I started reading Ender’s Game because it was one of the “classics” of SF. Stopped about 2 chapters in because it was creepy and boring. Enough reason to not bother reading it?

  275. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    I suggested something like that figuring it’s easy for people to not participate while still taking a nice walk if they want. Thoughts?

    Everyone involved CAN walk, comfortably, right?

  276. Portia, in boots says

    Definitely enough reason. I’ve been curious because my mormon liberturdian closet-racist/misogynist friend named his cat Ender. And if that friend is fascinated with it, well…

  277. blf says

    Ogvorbis please return some commas to the Internets there is now an intercontinental shortage thanks.

  278. Ogvorbis says

    Ogvorbis please return some commas to the Internets there is now an intercontinental shortage thanks.

    [pouts]

    Jackie and Portia started it.

  279. blf says

    I know I’ve read, or at least started to read, something by Mr Card, but I cannot recall what it was (except I’m fairly certain it was not Enders Game), whether or not I finished it, or any details like plot, characters, setting, …

    Basically, Mr Card is on my “avoid like the plague” list, a dislike admittedly reinforced by his bigotry, and his belief in magic underpants and sky faeries.

  280. Chilly -warming myself in the flames says

    Hugs and cats or mousetraps for all who need them.

    Last week I found that my cat had killed her first mouse and while very pleased with herself also seemed miffed that her new toy had stopped playing. Kinda made me miss my vegetarian rats.The only questionable eating proclivities they had involved peas.

    Welcome to Night Vale is something I discovered recently and I think cicely’s shadow camels would fit in nicely/creepily. The town is surrounded by desert. Can we really be sure the picture wasn’t taken near Night Vale?

  281. blf says

    nyah nyah

    The second most insightful and thought-out comment made in this thread.

    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    Pulitzer-prize material!

  282. Ogvorbis says

    Portia:

    Firstly, those are, like, y’know, single quotes, not comas, right?

  283. Portia, in boots says

    They are not comas.

    Comas do punctuate some people’s lives, though.

    Mine were commas.

    Like, I swear.

  284. blf says

    Firstly, those are, like, y’know, single quotes, not comas, right?

    Adjust yer vertical. Actually, on second thoughts, don’t: “There is nothing wrong with your television set. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are controlling transmission. If we wish to make it louder, we will bring up the volume. If we wish to make it softer, we will tune it to a whisper. We will control the horizontal. We will control the vertical. We can roll the image, make it flutter. We can change the focus to a soft blur or sharpen it to crystal clarity. For the next hour, sit quietly and we will control all that you see and hear. We repeat: there is nothing wrong with your television set. You are about to participate in a great adventure. You are about to experience the awe and mystery which reaches from the inner mind to — The Outer Limits.”

  285. Ogvorbis says

    Are not.

    You’re a lawyer! Nyah, Nyah, Nyah!

    blf:

    I did just adjust my vertical. I sate down.

  286. Portia, in boots says

    Curses! Got me there…

    well we’re both firefighters, so there!

    Gotcha! Or something.

  287. Portia, in boots says

    It’s funny, because I have this picture of myself as thoroughly risk averse, and then someone reminds me what I do for fun without pay. :) It is a little nuts.

  288. blf says

    I sate down.

    Sate? Don’t eat in front of the computer! Or at least have the decency to feed the mouse.

    (Yes, I am aware “sate” is also an archaic past tense of “sit”.)

  289. blf says

    run into burning buildings … for fun

    Right, we’ve found our team-building exercise.

  290. says

    In Iowa it is officially okay to fire someone for being too attractive.

    … James Knight, a married Iowa dentist, employed Melissa Nelson, who is two decades his junior, and who is also married. Nelson showed no interest in a romantic relationship and did not make any advances towards her boss.

    She was nevertheless fired, not because Nelson was bad at her job, but because Knight said he might be tempted to have an extramarital affair with her, and in fact, made unrequited advances. In other words, the dentist, with his wife’s encouragement, fired his assistant so he wouldn’t be tempted to pursue a woman who’d expressed no romantic interest in him.

    The Iowa Supreme Court, made up entirely of male justices, said that’s legal because it wasn’t technically gender discrimination — Knight didn’t fire Nelson because she’s a woman; he fired her because he found her attractive. Indeed, as part of Knight’s defense, his lawyers noted Nelson was replaced by a different woman (whom he presumably found less pretty), which helped prove that he wasn’t motivated by misogyny…

    Ummm, your honor, I have one question, did the dentist perhaps fire the assistant because she did not respond to his sexual overtures?

    Oh, yeah, and I have two more questions: Who did something wrong? The Dentist. Who was punished? The female assistant.

    Maddow Blog link.

  291. says

    You can carry a loaded, concealed gun into the Texas State legislature, but you cannot carry in a tampon.

    Women are being forced to throw out tampons and maxi pads to enter the Senate gallery, which has been confirmed by DPS. […]

    However, people with concealed handgun licenses are allowed to bypass long lines to enter the Gallery through the expedited CHL entrance, and per DPS, if a person has a CHL, they can take their gun into the gallery.

    For the record, this is not a joke. I’ve confirmed this with many people in Austin this afternoon.

    Apparently, conservatives believe progressive activists will, after the vote, throw tampons at Republican state lawmakers who approve the bill. So, anything that “can be thrown at” the senators is being confiscated before citizens can enter the gallery.

    My advice. Throw loaded guns at the Republican lawmakers. (That’s a joke. I do not advocate that, as it is likely to cause physical harm, unlike thrown tampons.)

  292. Ogvorbis says

    (Yes, I am aware “sate” is also an archaic past tense of “sit”.)

    I didn’t. That was an hmogage to Tpyos.

  293. Chilly -warming myself in the flames says

    I remember reading about that dentist thing a while back. If I recall correctly he is an upstanding xtian in the community and so it was just fine and dandy for him to fire this woman he was attracted to because he was protecting the sanctity of his marriage. The logical conclusions of this line of thinking are of course creepy and appalling. Alright ladies get back home if we rate you above a 6. You’re endangering our purity!

  294. Portia, in boots says

    I have this problem almost every Friday evening now that I’m single. I really need time alone to recuperate and reboot after a long week of dealing with people. But I also feel lonely and pathetic because I don’t have any plans or anyone to call to hang out. Sigh. I’m gonna make some quesadillas and try to perk up.

  295. yazikus says

    I’m gonna make some quesadillas and try to perk up.

    That sounds delicious, do you have a secret recipe?

    I’m looking forward to a quiet weekend after the last one (when my sister and her husband and their two kids came to stay). It was actually a blast. We went out to their favorite food and drink joints, went to the aviary, played in the pool. And my sister wasn’t judgy at all. Thanks for all those with supportive thoughts last week!

  296. Portia, in boots says

    My quesadillas involve corn tortillas, fried in vegetable oil, with refried beans and extra sharp Cabot white cheddar. Scallions and avocados and lime juice tossed in after the frying. Fatty tasty goodness :)

    Glad the weekend with your sister went so well! I’m trying to plan a visit to Michigan to see my family soon.

  297. chigau (違う) says

    It rained and winded all day, so we didn’t go out.
    I got some homework done.

  298. John Morales says

    Ogvorbis:

    Kinda, y’know, actually pretty, like, hard to operate the, like, computer and all without the mice, y’know?

    No rodents necessary these days; one gestures at them with a poking finger*.

    (No — not the pocking finger!)

    “The poking finger writes, and having poked moves on.”

    * I am unimpressed by Microsoft’s Windows 8 strategy.

  299. Rob Grigjanis says

    Portia @391: Made me think of lyrics from the album whose cover is my avatar;

    And from these endless days
    Shall come a broader sympathy
    And though I count the hours
    To be alone’s no injury

  300. chigau (違う) says

    John Morales, after a few hours on a touch-screen device, I tend to poke at everything.
    TV screens, cats, people…

  301. says

    Dalillama,

    I’ve been lurking and reading enough to have a rough idea of the bad times you’ve been having. My times have been… different? Some few really terrible days, mostly tolerable days, and a couple of “lurking on the horizon” issues that kind of throw a blanket on everything else.

  302. cicely says

    Chilly, Night Vale does sound Shadowcamelable. If they weren’t there before, it may be only a matter of time.

    You are about to experience the awe and mystery which reaches from the inner mind to — The Outer Limits.”

    Which would also lend itself well to Shadowcamelization…at least, as the (short) story is forming up. Slowly.

    run into burning buildings … for fun

    Right, we’ve found our team-building exercise.

    *snortlerofl*

    Oh, yeah, and I have two more questions: Who did something wrong? The Dentist. Who was punished? The female assistant.

    Same song, different verse….

    Hi, iJoe!
    *hugs*
    Adequate times for me, at least, if horrifically under-slept. But tomorrow I shall sleep ’til noon, and that evening, a friend I haven’t seen in…something like 10 years?…is having a BBQ, which looks to be a Good Time.
    -

  303. cicely says

    iJoe: lol
    I always say that I can carry a tune in a bucket…provided it’s a big enough bucket.
    -

  304. says

    I am sitting here at the bar (same gay bar as always), feeling really torn about my enjoyment of various pop or R&B songs. The lyrics are addictive and always awaken a “get up and dance” desire in me, BUT watching these videos, I am inundated with sexist imagery. I can’t not think about how women are treated and I feel bad for enjoying many songs. Performers such as the Pussycat Dolls, Destinys Child, Missy Elliot, or Ciara have put out many songs I like that the feminist in me abhors.
    Anyone else have a similar problem?
    Any solution?
    ****
    Earlier this week, a young woman (C), approached me about a problem. She is one of the servers at my restaurant and several members of the kitchen staff made comments she did not like. I had an idea what she was about to say and gave her my full attention. As she told me what happened, I noticed that she was somewhat vague about how she felt. When i asked if she was made uncomfortable, she said yes. Then I asked her if she felt sexually harassed and she said yes.
    The first thing I told her was “I believe you” and then asked her to go back over everything just so I had a clear understanding. When she finished, I said that what she went through was wrong and that I would make sure it was addressed. I am on the low end of the management scale, but part of it nonetheless. As soon as I saw the assistant GM, I told him and he said he would address it. The server manager and GM were off that day, and I did not call them.
    Normally, I would have involved the GM first…but our GM is good friends with the members of the kitchen staff. These are guys that are…fuck how do I use the right words?

    ::Pause::
    I am going to continue, but have no idea how to convey the rest of the story without giving more details about the GM and kitchen staff. Nothing personally revealing, but…shit, I just do not know how to word this and I accept any admonishment for poor word choice::

    They are black guys who I have been told hit on female employees, with extra emphasis on the white female servers. To the best of my knowlege, I have not directly witnessed or overheard anything. All I know is what C told me, and she indicated this specific occurence was not the first (C actually gave me a ride home tonight and gave me more specifics).
    Because of GMs friendship, I chose not to immediately involve him. I did tell him and server manager when I saw them next. S (assistant mgr) told me he spoke with the kitchen guys, and I told C who I had informed. Today, she and GM chatted about the incident, though I do not know specifics.
    C told me this was the first time she told a superior about secual harassment and was believed. She thanked me for it.
    I know I did the right thing, but more needs to be done.
    I think I am going to speak with S about this further. We need a store meeting.
    In fact, I am going to call him now.
    I do not like working in an environment where sexual harassment is normalized. I do not want anyone made to feel like their workplace is a hostile environment…

  305. blf says

    I can carry printed lyrics. Don’t even need a basket.

    (Unless they are carved on stone tables…)

  306. blf says

    The Ireland abortion debate, summed up in one disrespectful gesture:

    On Thursday night, 21 years since the Irish supreme court ruled that a suicidal teenage rape victim had the right to an abortion, the government finally passed abortion legislation. Sorry, I mean it passed “protection of life during pregnancy” legislation. There is no abortion bill. Oh, and the bill defines unborn life as a fertilised egg from implantation to birth. And, no, for those of you who sense a slight imbalance in the framing of the law, the government has no plans to discuss a “protection of choice during pregnancy” bill any time soon.

    The new law fails to account for cases of rape or incest, for cases where the health (as opposed to the life) of a woman is at risk, or for cases of fatal foetal abnormality. As the abortion rights campaign points out, the wording is so restrictive that it’s doubtful whether it would enable a suicidal teenage rape victim to access abortion at all.

    On Wednesday at 3am in Dáil Éireann, during the marathon debate that passed the historic bill, a Fine Gael teachta dála (member of parliament), Tom Barry, pulled a female colleague, Áine Collins, on to his lap. … The next day, minister for jobs Richard Bruton requested that this inappropriate incident not be allowed to sidetrack the crucial work under way in Leinster House. In other words: would ye ever shut up?

    But I can’t shut up. … I can’t think of a gesture that more perfectly represents the relationship between women’s bodies and the Irish body politic.

    … It is so completely farcical for a female TD to be groped by a male colleague during a debate on reproductive rights that it’s hard to believe the incident hadn’t been scripted. It’s as farcical as the “Rosary Crusade For Ireland” protest outside the Dáil, which is itself so farcical that the co-writer of Father Ted has given pro-choice campaigners full permission to use as many Craggy Island references as they need. It’s as farcical as the self-same TD Tom Barry publicly explaining that he’s voting for the bill in order to prevent women accessing terminations, and, in this vein, writing to Cardinal Seán Brady to make sure he won’t be excommunicated. In the meantime, 4,000 women annually … travel to the UK to access the abortions that they need.

  307. says

    So I spoke to S.
    I told him I was THIS close to emailing our HR director about this, but decided to go through some sort of chain of command. I think GM is in a compromised position and is not the one to handle this appropriately. Since S is assistant GM, he was the next in line. I told him that I think we need a class on sexual harassment and that I am not completely comfortable with how things are. I said in clear terms that I feel very strongly about this. He said he would speak to our HR director.

    I just got home and called C to inform her of what actions I took. In the midst of our conversation, I stopped and apologized for pursuing this further based on what she told me. I asked if it was acceptable for me to continue, to which she said yes. I told her I was sorry because even though this affects the entire workplace, the inciting incident happened with her. I should have cleared things with her before going further. I will know better in the future.
    As it stands, she is ok with me continuing with this and revealing what she told me to the appropriate people.

    Related to all of this…in conversations with S, he has told me that if he were in charge, much, if not all the kitchen staff (along with many servers) would be let go. I have not had an in-depth talk with him about this topic, but given his track record so far, I have some confidence that he will follow through on his promises.

  308. Menyambal --- Ooo, look! A garage sale ... says

    Tony, thanks for all that you do to make this world a better place. And for sharing it here. *hugs*

  309. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    Tony,

    It’s great that you are pursuing this.

    —-
    Remember that bit about the colleague who doesn’t want a woman come work with him? On a meeting with the boss and other guys from the department, he told a nice little tale about how I had read him a riot act. I felt embarrassed, even more so because I felt like he was trying to humiliate me with talking how I “brought over a big printer to show off my muscles”.
    I know I’m bad at being teased, but I felt very much like being mocked and put into a role of a little kid who puts on big shoes and pretends she’s an adult. Or rather, a man (‘s equal).
    I’m not sure what he was expecting from the boss, but she was not amused and said that when she first started working as IT support, and that was at the time when computers were quite bigger and heavier, she did all the work by herself because there was no one else, including carrying all the equipment.

    Later, she told me that she’s proud of me.

    It made me feel a bit warm inside.

  310. says

    Tony
    You know what, you’re really making a differnce.
    I know you’ve often wondered whether you’re not “a failure” because you’re still working in the position you do, but I can’t help to think that you’re in the perfect place, because you rock.

    beatrice
    Warm fuzzy feelings for cool boss.

    +++
    And talking about it, #1 was singing some song I have no clue where she picked it up: “sexy lady, oh sexy lady”
    Then she stopped and asked me what that actually means. Yeah. Try to explain “sexy” without delving deep into misogyny and lookism to a 6yo….

  311. says

    Beatrice @417:
    As I started to read your comment, I was worried where it was going to lead. I am happy that your boss was sympathetic toward you, rather than siding with douchey colleague.
    ****
    Thank you all for the words of support.

  312. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    Shit. Socialized fucking medicine isn’t all that it’s cracked out to be.
    My father had coronaroghraphy done yesterday. They already let him go home this morning. His blood pressure is so low, bp machine can’t even measure it (it’s reading mum’s bp, as well as mine so the batteries are ok)

    I have no idea what to do…. Did they give him the wrong medicine or too much of the one for lowering his bp.
    I’d call the ambulance, but he’s already getting upset at everything, and I know he won’t let me call. I don’t want to upset him further.

    His doctor just breezed away after the procedure and they let him out today without her letter or anything, saying he’ll get it by mail.

    Apparently, we were supposed to “help” her work with some more dedication. I know you often have to pay the doctors, but i thought this has gotten better and especially that they wouldn’t actually fuck you up if you didn’t give a bribe.

    Shit.

  313. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    OK, at least now it’s able to read the bp, but it’s scarily low.

  314. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    I know that googling can do more harm than good when it comes to illness, but it’s not like I can do anything else right now.

    He seems a bit better.

    I think those morons might have screwed up with the sleeping pill yesterday night. I don’t know whether the effect can last so long, but one of th possible side effects is lowering of blood pressure. He already has a very low bp because of the meds ( I’ve though for a while that they should adjust his dosage because his bp is just too low, I don’t think the goal of meds for lowering bp is to put it under 90/60).

  315. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    thanks, Tony
    I’m trying not to freak out, but I’m also scared of not reacting in time. Or reacting too soon and doing harm by upsetting him.

  316. blf says

    a wonderful kitty-cat Schultüte

    … filled with long pig knuckles and glue. Bit of an unusual set of presents, isn’t that? As I recall, it’s usually chocolate. †

    The mildly deranged penguin thinks it should be solid cheese. With the kitties glued on, ready to be plucked off and given a flying lesson, starting with a trebuchet launch.

      † The Pfffft! of All Knowledge you kindly linked to says nowadays it’s filled with less important things.

  317. Ogvorbis says

    Kinda, y’know, actually pretty, like, hard to operate the, like, computer and all without the mice, y’know?

    No rodents necessary these days; one gestures at them with a poking finger*.

    Not to worry. I use a track ball.

  318. mildlymagnificent says

    Oooooh, bliss.

    Daughter and partner took mr off with them today to check out a few weddingy things (I was a bit below par for going out). Most of their time was spent in the Barossa Valley – a wine and food heaven. Brought back a souvenir for me which I have, just now, very slowly and lovingly consumed.

    Icecream. Burnt fig, honeycomb and caramel icecream. Foodgasm.

  319. blf says

    Not to worry. I use a track ball.

    I think the mice should be very worried. Being plugged into a computer by the tail is one thing, but being castrated is at an entirely different level.

    (Wonders if there is an updated version of the IBM field service note on replacing the ball?)

  320. blf says

    Mexican cheese champion:

    Kristen Schnepp of London’s Gringa Dairy gave up her day job to perfect the art of crafting Mexican cheese.

    I started by making queso fresco — a soft, fresh cows’ milk cheese that’s a lot like feta, but less salty. … I also make an inauthentic but tasty cream cheese flavoured with Gran Luchito chilli paste. Soon I’ll be producing Oaxaca-style cheese, which is a lot like mozzarella, and Chihuahua, an excellent melting cheese.

    I’m not Mexican — I’m American, and grew up in California’s Central Valley. When people ask why I make this kind of cheese, my flippant answer is: “No one needs another cheddar.” But the real reason is that I was raised among Mexicans and their cuisine, and I have a real passion for it.

    … You simply can’t make cheese the same way in Britain as you would in Mexico. Although you can find the same breeds of cows because the climate is so different, so is their diet, and their milk has a taste unique to them. I had to find a way to replicate the taste that I knew without exactly mirroring the process.

    Twice a week I get up at 4am to drive to the village of Chiddingstone in Kent, where I collect my milk from Commonwork Organic Farm. It’s five or six in the evening before I’m ready to package the queso fresco, after milling, salting, moulding and an awful lot of cleaning.

    … Every now and again, someone who has grown up eating this food will tell me, “Your cheesemaker must be Mexican.” That’s the highest praise you can get.

    “No one needs another cheddar.” The mildly deranged penguin is swooning.

  321. Nutmeg says

    Over the past few months (since shortly after my life got so crazy that I disappeared from the Lounge), I’ve been having trouble with doing weird things in my sleep. Night terrors are the weirdest and most concerning of these things.

    A week ago, I woke up at 3am, out of bed, missing my shirt, with the door open, crashing into my closet, and saying, “Get out, get out, what the fuck!” I have two giant purple bruises on my ass where I hit a drawer in the closet. I suspect I wouldn’t have woken up at all if I hadn’t hurt myself. I’ve had other episodes of sitting up and shouting at imaginary intruders over the past few months, but I didn’t realize that they were night terrors until after this episode. (Yes, my life really is so crazy right now that I wasn’t concerned about waking up shouting and scared. Yay grad school.)

    It’s entirely stress-related, of course, and it will probably go away once my thesis is done. And I’ve taken all the appropriate precautions to reduce the chances that I will make it out of my room or out of the house if this happens again.

    Night terrors are characterized by complete or partial memory loss, so now I’m wondering if I’ve had other episodes that I don’t remember at all. For months, I’ve been confused about how I’m getting my bedsheets so tangled most nights. Now that I have a possible explanation, I can’t resist the temptation to test my hypothesis.

    I woke up with tangled sheets again this morning, with a vague memory of talking in my sleep. So of course I am now researching free audio recording programs. If I can find a program that will work, I’m going to set my computer to record me all night, and I’m going to find out just what it is I’m doing in my sleep.

    I have a feeling this is another instance of “Nutmeg handles her problems differently from normal people”, but if anyone would appreciate it, it would be this crowd.

  322. Ogvorbis says

    blf:

    Never had to replace my balls, but I do, about once a month, clean both the ball and the rollers inside.

    I have a feeling this is another instance of “Nutmeg handles her problems differently from normal people”, but if anyone would appreciate it, it would be this crowd.

    Hugs to Nutmeg. Be safe. I hope you have someone to talk to face to face (and yes, I know that I am being quite hypocritical considering that is something I am still too frightened to do . . . .).

  323. Nutmeg says

    Thanks, Ogvorbis. (And I’m very glad to see that you’re still here!)

    My friends and family know that I’m having night terrors. I am 98% certain that it’s just stress, so I’m not too worried that it’s a majorly bad sign about my mental health or anything. (Recording a few episodes will also reassure me that nothing else is going on.) The “getting up and trying to attack/run away” aspect freaks me the fuck out, but I think I’ve taken sensible precautions.

    If it persists past my defense date (end of August), or if it gets worse before then, I’ll find some type of mental health person to help me sort it out.

  324. blf says

    The mildly deranged penguin has just pointed out that you don’t have to castrate a mouse if you use a tracking ball. Just staple yer mouse upside on the desk and rub its balls.

    I asked how to click the buttons.

    She suggested a hammer.

    My mouse, which was already looking a bit agitated, let out a loud squeak! and starting trying to shoot its laser. I have no idea who or what it was aiming at, since it didn’t really hit anything. Rather hard to aim, I guess, a laser shoved up yer arse.

  325. Portia, in boots says

    *high-five* for Tony.
    *hugs* for Beatrice. I would advise risking upsetting your dad rather than losing your dad. IANAD, but that is low bp (which of course you know).
    *hugs* for Nutmeg. Hope that goes away soon.
    *drools* over the thought of mildlymagnificent’s ice cream. What a delectable treat.

  326. Portia, in boots says

    Giliell:
    today I learned something new about German traditions. Very cool.

  327. David Marjanović says

    She was nevertheless fired, not because Nelson was bad at her job, but because Knight said he might be tempted to have an extramarital affair with her

    …I thought an affair is something two people have with each other?

    “Mom!!! He’s quarreling!!!”
    – Sister 1, usually about our brother.

    I’m not sure what he was expecting from the boss, but she was not amused and said that when she first started working as IT support, and that was at the time when computers were quite bigger and heavier, she did all the work by herself because there was no one else, including carrying all the equipment.

    Later, she told me that she’s proud of me.

    It made me feel a bit warm inside.

    That makes me happy. ^_^

    Now that I have a possible explanation, I can’t resist the temptation to test my hypothesis.

    *fist up*

    FOR SCIENCE!!!

    *hug* ^_^

  328. Portia, in boots says

    Beatrice:
    That.
    Is.
    Awesome.
    I know so well the feeling of validation after an onslaught of sexist nastiness. It washes over you in such a wave of relief. *thumbs up* for your boss

  329. Nutmeg says

    *fist-bumps David*

    I found a program that will pick up anything louder than a whisper, which should be good enough. Now that I can collect data, this has turned into a win-win situation. Either I don’t have a night terror (yay!), or I get to collect data on exactly what I’m doing and saying (yay!).

    I may have to start wearing my “Stand back, I’m going to try SCIENCE!” shirt to bed.

  330. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    Portia,

    He’s better now, but if there are more problems before sleep, we’ll call.
    I think it might have been the medications. It seems they didn’t give him his regular ones but something else, which messed with his bp. As the day is progressing, he is feeling much better.

  331. Portia, in boots says

    Beatrice:

    Sorry if you had said something to that effect before and I misread you. Anyway.

    I’m trying to figure out how to spend my day. First item on the list is to undo a week of eat-and-run living. Then I’ll probably vacuum and do laundry. Super exciting life I live.

  332. blf says

    First item on the list is to undo a week of eat-and-run living.

    Dying is massively overrated. Boring, and plays havoc with yer senses.

    Then I’ll probably vacuum and do laundry.

    Well, yeah, Ok, zombies do have a bit of fun.

    Super exciting life I live.

    Now, yes. After, um, “undoing”? Guess you really like vacuuming the laundry. And brainz!

  333. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    Portia,

    I don’t think you misread anything (I’m a bit lost to why you’re apologizing :) )

  334. Portia, in boots says

    Cousin brings friend along to borrow an onion. Introduces friend as fellow lawyer. Friend is a very good-looking, courteous guy. Within three minutes of small talk, friend mentions he is part of something called “Christian Defense League” or some such. Siiiiiiigh.

  335. Portia, in boots says

    blf:

    I hope brainz are cheese-flavored.

    Beatrice:
    I guess I got confused and thought I made you repeat yourself :) Good thing it’s the weekend and I only have to do undead tasks.

  336. Portia, in boots says

    Liability is more or less the only thing that gets my landlord moving. I casually mention I’m trying not to break my ankle getting out of my car because of the sinkhole in my carport and damned if he doesn’t immediately materialize gravel to fill it in temporarily.

  337. says

    Pteryxx @114: McCrory is signing that motorcycle/abortion bill.

    Gov. Pat McCrory announced his decision Friday, two days after he threatened to veto the previous legislation for how it addressed raising standards for abortion clinics through rules similar to outpatient surgery centers. The House changed the language to satisfy McCrory’s health and human services department.

    So, the trap laws will go into effect. Clinics in North Carolina will close. McCrory and cronies are still claiming its all to protect the health and safety of women. Maddow Blog link.

    Meanwhile, in Texas:

    Texas legislators overturned a temporary victory by state Democrats and standard bearer Sen. Wendy Davis, passing a bill late Friday that puts new restrictions on abortion procedures.

    The bill passed the Republican-controlled Senate just before midnight, two weeks after the Legislature failed to put the restrictions to a successful vote in its first special session….. Twenty-one amendments were offered, debated and rejected.

    The final vote was 19 to 11.

    The sweeping legislation imposes a 20-week abortion ban, despite pleas from the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, which warned that the measure would be dangerous. The bill also impose new regulations that will close all but a handful of the state’s 42 clinics where reproductive services are provided.

    Link.

  338. blf says

    I hope brainz are cheese-flavored.

    Cheese-flavored? Cheese-flavored? The mildly deranged penguin does not understand this mere dismissal of just being “flavored”. It’s like saying you hope grog is alcohol-flavored, or fish are seafood-flavored, or for mudpies have a lemon-and-wasabi flavor.

    Geesh! Some zombies, what is the world degenerating to…

  339. says

    Here are some very special messages from Pat Robertson.

    He would like to have a “vomit” button next the “like” button on Facebook so that he can mark images of same sex couples with his vomit. He also claims “the land will vomit out gays.” Right Wing Watch link. Video.

    The vomit episode was on Monday. On Thursday, Robertson said that he is not anti-gay. He went on to offer hope and inspiration to gays everywhere:

    …He claimed that people are gay “because they have forsaken God, it’s not something that is natural and when people reunite with the Lord, the Lord will get their priorities the way it is supposed to be…. You work through it and if you meet the Lord it should be, it can be instant.”…

    He argued that many gay people are simply straight but are confused due to child abuse: “A lot of people are into this homosexual thing because they’ve been abused by a parent, abused by a coach, abused by a sibling, abused by a friend, they’re little boys and little girls and they don’t know any better and then they somehow think, ‘well I must be gay,’ they aren’t they are heterosexual and they just need to come out of that.”…

    Link.

  340. blf says

    Re: Pat Robinson wanting to vomit…
    As I said at Ed’s blog:

    Go ahead and vomit all the time. Eventually, you won’t be able to use the keyboard, the camera lens will be caked over, the microphone will have shorted out, the people working with you will have decided they aren’t paid enough to put up will all this shitevomit and left, and peace, rationality, and prosperity will win.

  341. Ogvorbis says

    A lot of people are into this homosexual thing because they’ve been abused by a parent, abused by a coach, abused by a sibling, abused by a friend,

    I am so fucking sick of this meme pushed by the radical religious right. Every time I hear it, hear how I am damaged, or that the only way someone could possibly be gay is if they were raped or abused as a child, I have an urge to smash something.

    [Eyes malfunctioning scanner]

    Nope. Its on the property list.

  342. Ogvorbis says

    Portia:

    But the scanner in question belongs to the US Government so, if I HulkSmashed it, I’d have to do lots of paperwork. Now, I know that, as a lawyer, you rarely do paperwork but it does happen in the government.

  343. Portia, in boots says

    *snortle* Me? Paperwork? Never.

    I was unclear with my pronouns. I meant stupid Pat Robertson should have his scanner smashed.

  344. Jackie, Ms. Paper if ya nasty says

    David M.
    Her name is Allison Grimes and McConnell already has ads out attacking her.
    I’m very hopeful that she can beat him.

  345. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    But the scanner in question belongs to the US Government so, if I HulkSmashed it, I’d have to do lots of paperwork.

    Well, only if you wanted another scanner. Just having a HulkSmashed scanner doesn’t really require much paperwork since that would mean 1.someone else would have to take it off your hands 1a. and do a lot of paperwork, 2. someone else would have to take it from them for disposal, 2a. and do a lot of paperwork.

    People don’t like paperwork or work, so it’s just easier for everyone to leave a HulkSmashed scanner rotting in the corner as long as you have another scanner to use.

    Why yes, I do work for the government too and I’ve learned how these things go. *grin*

  346. opposablethumbs says

    Happy admiration to MakingThingsBetter! Tony and Beatrice re their respective anti-misogyny wins – and extra hugs re your dad, Beatrice, glad he’s starting to feel better – and Nutmeg, I have to say I love your take on handling the night terrors thing. (though it must be pretty scary) And I totally second your nightwear decision; this is clearly the wording you should be wearing in any footage.
    .
    Pat Robertson and his ilk are such utter, stupid , malevolent douches.

    A happy scene from last night to counteract the Pat Robertson-induced nausea: SonSpawn was asked to join the horn section of an ad-hoc band playing a pub gig (during and after a cabaret act), so towards the end of the evening we were there to give him a lift home from this fairly big, very popular and rather beautiful old pub in a medium-nice-ish non-central and not especially cool neighbourhood. Big crowd, all ages (though lots of young people). There were a sprinkling of same-sex couples dancing together and non-gender-stereotypical people in among the majority of opposite-sex couples and more-gender-stereotypical people (of all ages) all dancing and applauding and generally having a good time; nobody bats an eye, no eyebrows were raised. Which shouldn’t even be remarkable, but I suppose it kind of is.

  347. Ogvorbis says

    I meant stupid Pat Robertson should have his scanner smashed.

    Do you really think that Pat Robertson ever actually uses a scanner? He just uses the unpaid intern from Liberty University’s communications department.

    Why yes, I do work for the government too and I’ve learned how these things go.

    True. We still have a Kroy printer (manual) for doing text for temporary displays. Haven’t used it in 20+ years but it is on the property books and no one ‘owns’ it so no one can initiate survey.

    Might work.

    Hmmm.

  348. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Tonight is clearing out some leftovers at Casa la Pelirroja. Since the starch and vegetable selections are yellow, the poor Redhead is getting a vanilla ice cream cone with fresh strips of mint leaves for desert. Must have something green for dinner….

  349. Nutmeg says

    opposablethumbs: Your story about your SonSpawn made me smile repeatedly throughout the afternoon. Yay for music awesome-ness!

  350. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    In case the implied wink in #464 is missed, I have been torturing the Redhead with fresh picked blackberries and raspberries to go with her meds and yogurt this last week…;)

  351. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    The Redhead picked up a call today from the “right to life” people. Since she isn’t absolutely rude like myself, she would be considered polite while telling them to fuck off and die…

  352. FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist) says

    Happy Bastille Day one and all.(Bastille Day Eve to those of a more westerny time zone)

    It’s our wedding anniversary today, and we both forgot. It took my mother-in-law to remind us. I’m going to go with the stress of moving causing temporary amnesia as an excuse.

    Adventures in home ownership Volume 1

    I had to do a home repair before we’d even moved in. Our washing machine had a crack in the waste hose that the plumber claimed was extant before he installed it in the new house. Could be true, and it was a simple enough repair that I didn’t fuss about it.

    But as I knelt in front of that blessed machine, hallowed be it’s front loading name, I had an transcendent vision of my future.

    I saw myself cloaked in the armour of a DIY warrior, doing battle with the forces of entropy. I saw screwdrivers and hammers, tubes of plaster and silicone, piles gaff tape and pipe clamps, and kilometre after kilometre after kilometre of leaf clogged guttering* stretching out before me in a nigh-on infinite line.

    And not only that, one look at my commuter bicycle will show anyone with the slightest of intelligence that I am clearly the kind of person who cannot leave well enough alone. There is no doubt of all that some of those never ending home repairs will be the result of my misguided and ill conceived attempts to “improve” things. /whinging for it’s own sake

    This is a new house, it’s under warranty for the next five or six years. Not only do I have no big complaints, I am very lucky indeed to have been in a position to be able to do this. Besides, the flaws so far have been easily fixed. The tub taps were leaking behind the wall when they were turned on. This was a concern but of no great urgency, the bub’s nightly bath became a shower.

    A greater worry was when the toilet stopped flushing properly. Because it was the weekend and, well, we need a toilet, I spent a couple of quality hours in rubber gauntlets with an auger and a hose trying to free things up, all to no avail. It turned out that no one had turned on the pumps for our worm farm waste water treatment system. Doh! Ah well, at least it wasn’t my fault. Though Ms. Fishy did indeed point a finger or two at me before the source of the trouble was discovered.

    And double DOH, because we’d dumped the starter box of worms into the tank the night before they came to fix things. The poor things all drowned. Mind you, it’s silly to worry about that when I’m perfectly happy to have them live their lives in a sunless hole, eating my poo.

    Anyway, enough whinging. I hope everyone is doing well. Hopefully I’ll have some time soon to attempt to keep up.

    *And like most ecstatic visions this one is bullshit. We have gutter guards that not only stop twigs, leaves and the occasional dead opossum from clogging them up, they also stop bushfire embers from collecting there should the worse occur.

  353. says

    Not guilty.
    Not fucking guilty!
    He fucking killed a 17 year old. Oh sure, it was ‘self defense’, but would the gun have been drawn if he hadnt been profiling and following Trayvon?
    Fuck that fucking shit.

  354. morgan says

    Fuck. If Zimmerman had NOT FOLLOWED Martin as instructed, Martin would be alive. We live in such a horridly racist culture which has gone soooo backward. I weep for all of us.

  355. Ing:Intellectual Terrorist "Starting Tonight, People will Whine" says

    I’ve never read Ender’s Game but I’ve heard several references to it being racist and awful. Is that one of the reasons you hate it, Ing? I’m interested in hating on it.

    I hate Ender’s Game because it’s horrible. It’s a horrible angsty Marty Stew story with the wundermesh Vunderkin saving the day. It’s a power fantasy of the bullied becoming the bully while remaining pure and undriven snow and fucking goddamn I hate this book. I hate the forced contrivance to make genocide blameless. I hate how the other two books hammer away any ambiguity and badger the reader for possibly having a different moral interpretation. I hate that it’s moral is “INTENT IS FUCKING MAGIC” I hate the audacity of a man who killed an entire race becoming their spokes person. I hate the second book lacking the gonads by removing all consequence of the act by ungenociding the buggers (because we can’t even have CONSEQUENCES we have to undo the one possible fucking thing that should matter). I hate that it glorifies a legion of assholes who institutionalize child abuse and war crimes and are vindicated by the narration. I hate how authoritarian and fascist it is. I hate how OSC out right says in his essays that he’s pushing an ethical and moral agenda in all his works meaning that yes this is indicative of what he believes. I hate how we have a genocide that throws all the pity at the man who pulled the trigger. I hate how the dilema of the “game” ignores all possible good ways to explore those issues and goes for a straight blameless one. I hate OSC and I’ve hated every goddamn thing he’s writen.

  356. Ing:Intellectual Terrorist "Starting Tonight, People will Whine" says

    I’m stressed out and can’t sleep because move is tomorrow (we’re storming Bastille) and now all pissed off over Zimmerman.

  357. Portia, in boots says

    Thanks Ing that clears up a lot of things for me. Wow. Yeah, sounds like a shit book.

    Sorry you’re having a rough night.

    I’m royally pissed off myself.
    The racists are coming out on facebook.
    I can’t even with this shit.

  358. Ing:Intellectual Terrorist "Starting Tonight, People will Whine" says

    @Portia

    I’m told, the book is beloved by many. I read it out of the suggested age demographic after reading a lot of scifi and genre and taking classes on ethics and all so I was not impressed. Everything I dislike in the book is exasperated by OSC being a huge fucking asshole and not just on the gay issues.

    *He wrote a book praising Columbus starting the American Genocide (in the story preventing Aztecs from enslaving all of Europe)
    *He fears Obama will form an army of “Inner city youth” “Thugs” and get 8 more years via Michelle acting as a puppet candidate because women an’t be separate from their husbands am I right?
    *He claims Neo-cons are the new Jew and liberals are the new anti-Semite (Speaker of the Dead amiright?)
    *He rewrote Hamlet to be about the evils of man/boy love

    To be fair the first book is the best. The others start to hammer away any ambiguity you might have read (because that’s a problem!)

  359. Ing:Intellectual Terrorist "Starting Tonight, People will Whine" says

    No kidding I read something of OSC and wound up going on a huge rant on Twitter. The guy just twists my tits in the worst way.

  360. Portia, in boots says

    Wow, I knew about some of OSC’s homophobia, but damn.

    It’s funny to me that you point out particularly the lack of ambiguity. That’s one of the main characteristics of my friend who loves it. Rejects any idea with nuance, like his world black and white. It’s infuriating.

  361. Portia, in boots says

    OTG, S’s dad is all over a mutual friend’s status being obtuse and belying the fact that he has a law degree. Talking down to myself and another female lawyer like we don’t have law degrees. *deep breaths*

  362. cicely says

    Buffy the Vampire Slayer and the Potterverse dream-fuse remarkably well.

    *applause* for Tony!

    *applause* for Beatrice and her Awesome Boss. Perhaps this will provide a useful adjustment to Colleague’s attitude.
     
    No applause for the Anti-social Medicine; I hope your dad is/will be okay.
    *hugs* for Beatrice.

    *hugs* for Nutmeg. That sounds majorly scary. I hope it does clear up now that your thesis is done.

    I may have to start wearing my “Stand back, I’m going to try SCIENCE!” shirt to bed.

    :) :) :)

    opposablethumbs, your anti-nausea tale was happy-making. What with the bad news on the abortion front, and then reading about the Zimmerman thing, I really needed that. Thank you.
    :)

    I am stunned.

    I am wearily unsurprised.
    *hugs* actively sought.

    *hugs* for Ing, and I hope the move goes well.
    -

  363. Portia, in boots says

    *bighugs* for cicely.

    I feel exhausted by it too.

    S’s dad is bringing gender-offensiveness into it too. ” I am so proud of the jury, all mothers, who didn’t fall for the Prosecutor’s emotional final argument, and used logic, and applied it to the facts of the case, which regardless of gender, we all can, and must do.”

    twitch

  364. Hekuni Cat, MQG says

    cicely – *pouncehug with lots of chocolate*

    KevinKat – Yay girlfriend! *hugs*

    Dalillama – I hope your situation improves soon. *hugs and chocolate*

    Tony – I’m sorry about the fleas. And thank you for speaking out and taking action against workplace harassment. ♥

    Esteleth – Congratulations on your nursing school acceptance!

    Ing – This may be late, but good luck with your move.

    Pteryxx – I’m sorry about your laptop. Thank you for all the women’s reproductive rights updates.

    Nutmeg – *pouncehug* I hope your stress levels diminish and your dreams cease to trouble you.

    Ogvorbis – I’m so sorry about Oreo. *safe hugs and chocolate*

    Portia – You are definitely not a nobody. *hugs and chocolate*

    Chilly – Welcome too the Lounge.

    Tethys – I’m glad your son is doing better.

    Minnie – *pouncehug*

    Jadehawk – I’m happy to hear you were relatively unscathed by your accident. *gentle hugs*

    Beatrice – Yay about your boss! I’m sorry your father isn’t doing well. *hugs and chocolate*

  365. cicely says

    Portia, many thanks for *bighugs*.
    They were very welcome.
    Sometimes I despair—but at least there’s here.

    *pouncehugback* for Hekuni Cat, but no chocolate.
    ‘Cause I eated it.
    It was delishus.
    -

  366. Portia, in boots says

    but at least there’s here.

    So true. Really takes the sting out of having to live in a crappy world like this.

  367. Portia, in boots says

    I found the spot where the centipedes are getting in my room, even caught one in the act. Of course, I just waved a curtain at him and scared him back out. Tomorrow, the duct tape comes out.

  368. Nutmeg says

    Thanks for the well-wishes, everyone. I’m done editing my thesis for tonight (down to fussy formatting stuff, yay!) and set up to record audio of any weird things I do in my sleep. Hopefully the program will automatically run all night.

    *pile of free-range hugs*

  369. Jackie, Ms. Paper if ya nasty says

    WMDkitty,
    Yeah, I saw that. I hate everything right now.

  370. Portia, in boots says

    No, but thank you Jackie!

    I will deduct that from my rent and go to town with it!

  371. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    Portia,

    Now that you’ve found the entrance, you’ll probably not see them often any more.
    I don’t remember seeing more than a couple of them in my room in the years since we changed the windows (they were getting in through a hole between window pane and wall while probably having a party in between rotten wooden shutters)

    Bathroom might still be a problem, or the occasional one getting in through an open window so some of that pestblocl would still be a good idea.

  372. Portia, in boots says

    The opening is between the bottom of the screen and the windowsill. I stuffed a tablecloth beside it in the meantime…not sure if it helps. Can’t believe it was something so simple and obvious. Ah well. Hopefully you’re right, Beatrice.

  373. Portia, in boots says

    My cousin is messaging me telling me he wants to get divorced and feels like “family and Christianity” pressured him into the marriage three years ago. I don’t really know what to say. I like his wife a lot and don’t know either of them super well. Ack.

  374. blf says

    Happy Bastille Day one and all.

    Ah, that explains the fireworks last night. Gee, I live in France and forgot…

    And no, it’s not weird the fireworks were the day before. That, apparently, is a local tradition were I live. And some other holiday, I think it’s L’Armistice (Nov 11) but can’t recall for sure now, the fireworks are the day after.

  375. says

    HI there

    So, the USA is a country where having an abortion at 25 weeks because of Potter Syndrome is illegal in several states but shooting a teenage boy because he’s black and annoying you is legal. You’re free to crash on my couch.

    beatrice
    Hope your dad feels better this morning. Sometimes you’re just the unlucky one in 10.000 who gets the adverse reaction. Everybody is so fond of Ibuprofen as a painkiller. Me? It gets me high for several days….

    Portia
    *hugs*
    Well, it’s still possible that two very nice and awesome people get married for the wrong reasons. Best luck to your cousin that hopefully they can get an amicable divorce.


    Also: Fuck Lego Friends