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Jun 11 2013

[Thunderdome]

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This is Thunderdome, the unmoderated open thread on Pharyngula. Say what you want, how you want.

Status: UNMODERATED; Previous thread

666 comments

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  1. 501
    chigau (違う)

    This thread needs to go to Page 2.

  2. 502
    chigau (違う)

    Is there anybody out there?

  3. 503
    PZ Myers

  4. 504
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ kouras

    A simple heuristic (IMHO): PZ is all for diversity of argument, what he won’t do, is allow his blog to be a platform for bigotry or proselytizing.

    Also check out his commenting rules top left sidebar: direct link.
    The pharynguwiki also has more information, or feel free to ask further in this particular thread.

    Nerd’s “Bozo’s who believe total equality has been achieved”, refers to a quite substantial group of ‘pitters who baldly state that complete equality in legal, financial, political and social is the sole goal of feminism, and (bizarrely!) that this has been achieved. They like to call themselves “equity feminists”, although I think this is not quite the appropriate term for them. Their ranks contain no small number of women too, which gets held up by some MRA’s as proof that they themselves are not rank misogynists. You certainly will meet such on the ‘pit.

  5. 505
    chigau (違う)

    Happy Roswell Day!

  6. 506
    chigau (違う)

    Pink Floyd rules.

  7. 507
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    Chigau:
    No one is out there.

  8. 508
    chigau (違う)

    Tony!
    As Fox Mulder taught us, The Truth Is Out There.
    (insert X-Files theme music here, I can’t manage a link tonight)

  9. 509
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ PZ

    I cannot see the video from behind the Great fireWall of China ™ , but I just knew that it was Pink Floyd.

    @ chigau
    Your uniform is in the mail as we speak.

  10. 510
    chigau (違う)

    theophontes
    I don’t remember which uniform we decided on.
    Was it the one with the penis?

  11. 511
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ chigau

    I think we just settled on socks in the end. It would be cruel to inflict penises on the myrmidon masses. (Further: tardigrades have no need for penises.)

  12. 512
    Dhorvath, OM

    Nods.

  13. 513
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    I miss strange gods…

  14. 514
    Dhorvath, OM

    There were good times.

  15. 515
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ Tony

    I miss strange gods…

    I’ll email the Brontosaurus and see what’s up.

  16. 516
    Dhorvath, OM

    I would say hi.

  17. 517
    Nick Gotts

    theophontes,

    Well, not really: what we have is an actual military junta,

    Read again, I was referring to a hypothetical “if” Morsi and his Brotherhood had been allowed to continue with destroying the economy, demonising the Copts, shutting out alternative voices, bypassing state institutions and the like.

    I read perfectly well, thank you. I was drawing attention to the contrast between your waffling about what might have happened, and me talking about what actually has.

    Or just for primitives like the Egyptians?

    I would say “fuck you!”, but would far rather you retract your loaded question.

    I see no reason at all to retract it. I’m sure you didn’t intend the implication, but it was there all the same.

    It is easy to get cynical. Don’t.

    When I want advice about how cynical to be from someone who can’t recognise a US-backed military coup against an inconvenient elected leader when they see one, I’ll ask.

    The military stepped in and there was a major rebound on the stock exchange. That is a cold blooded financial reality.

    Well of course: Egypt is now firmly back under the neoliberal thumb. If we’re going to judge political developments by the reaction of the stockmarkets, we’ll all be cheering on anything that pleases the 1%.

    If the army are as heavily invested in the economy as you suggest (I don’t dispute this) their incentive is to ensure a stable economy.

    Since they’ve been in power for almost all of the last half-century, that raises the question of why they haven’t done so up to now. Could it possibly be that providing scads of sinecures for senior military and their families somehow fails to maximise economic efficiency?

    Unlike Morsi and his buffoons, they realise that this needs a stable democracy

    The financial markets don’t give a shit about democracy, except when it throws up a government that might threaten elite interests – upon which they destabilise it. Oh, I expect the military rulers of Egypt will hold some form of elections, and use them to erect a civilian, “democratic” facade – but they’ve made absolutely clear that they have a veto, which they will use to protect their own interests. If the new elected President steps out of line, he’ll go the same way as Morsi.

    “virginity tests”

    That was rather a sordid idea – which he later retracted.

    Are you actually listening to yourself? This man defended the serious sexual assault (which would be accounted rape in many jurisdictions, and rightly so) of women demonstrators.

  18. 518
    Nick Gotts

    Sorry, blockquote fail

    theophontes,

    Well, not really: what we have is an actual military junta,

    Read again, I was referring to a hypothetical “if” Morsi and his Brotherhood had been allowed to continue with destroying the economy, demonising the Copts, shutting out alternative voices, bypassing state institutions and the like.

    I read perfectly well, thank you. I was drawing attention to the contrast between your waffling about what might have happened, and me talking about what actually has.

    Or just for primitives like the Egyptians?

    I would say “fuck you!”, but would far rather you retract your loaded question.

    I see no reason at all to retract it. I’m sure you didn’t intend the implication, but it was there all the same.

    It is easy to get cynical. Don’t.

    When I want advice about how cynical to be from someone who can’t recognise a US-backed military coup against an inconvenient elected leader when they see one, I’ll ask.

    The military stepped in and there was a major rebound on the stock exchange. That is a cold blooded financial reality.

    Well of course: Egypt is now firmly back under the neoliberal thumb. If we’re going to judge political developments by the reaction of the stockmarkets, we’ll all be cheering on anything that pleases the 1%.

    If the army are as heavily invested in the economy as you suggest (I don’t dispute this) their incentive is to ensure a stable economy.

    Since they’ve been in power for almost all of the last half-century, that raises the question of why they haven’t done so up to now. Could it possibly be that providing scads of sinecures for senior military and their families somehow fails to maximise economic efficiency?

    Unlike Morsi and his buffoons, they realise that this needs a stable democracy

    The financial markets don’t give a shit about democracy, except when it throws up a government that might threaten elite interests – upon which they destabilise it. Oh, I expect the military rulers of Egypt will hold some form of elections, and use them to erect a civilian, “democratic” facade – but they’ve made absolutely clear that they have a veto, which they will use to protect their own interests. If the new elected President steps out of line, he’ll go the same way as Morsi.

    “virginity tests”

    That was rather a sordid idea – which he later retracted.

    Are you actually listening to yourself? This man defended the serious sexual assault (which would be accounted rape in many jurisdictions, and rightly so) of women demonstrators.

  19. 519
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    I’d like to send a hi! along too.

  20. 520
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ Nick Gotts

    but it was there all the same.

    The only place I could find it was buried in your strawman/loaded question:

    So you advocate the armed forces of every country owning a large slice of the economy, right? Or just for primitives like the Egyptians?

    .

    a US-backed military coup

    Citation please?

    You also make it sound as if millions of Egyptians have not suffered under Morsi’s grasping incompetence. As if they don’t know, painfully well, why they called for his removal.

    we’ll all be cheering on anything that pleases the 1%

    Morsi was fucking up the economy for everyone.

    … fails to maximise economic efficiency?

    I am not in favour of any military, anywhere, running an economy. This derives from my not being in favour of any military, anywhere.

    Are you actually listening to yourself?

    Woah safari! Are you actually trying to suggest that I support such in any manner or form? No need to mine, my whole comment is there for all to see and adjudicate.

    @ Dhorvath, Beatrice.

    Thanks, the added cajoling may work.

  21. 521
    Nick Gotts

    theophontes,

    a US-backed military coup

    Citation please?

    I already gave a citation to the statement of the Head of the US Council on Foreign Relations just before the coup; and to the fact that following it, US aid to the Egyptian military has not been suspended in accordance with established policy.

    Morsi was fucking up the economy for everyone.

    What specific measures are you referring to? I await your expect disquisition on the state of the Egyptian economy, and just how much any government could have done to either improve it or fuck it up, in the space of a year.

    I am not in favour of any military, anywhere, running an economy. This derives from my not being in favour of any military, anywhere.,/blockquote>

    So why are you supporting a military coup?

    Are you actually trying to suggest that I support such in any manner or form?

    I’m saying your response to al-Sisi’s condonation of the serious sexual assault on women demonstrators is shamefully half-hearted.

  22. 522
    chigau (違う)

    theophontes
    Please say “Hi” to ॐ from me, too.

  23. 523
    chigau (違う)

    test

  24. 524
    chigau (違う)

    hmmm

  25. 525
    Dhorvath, OM

    I don’t want to cajole. Being here isn’t easy for many people, and needing not to be is understandable.

  26. 526
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    I’d be happy to see strange gods around here again, but my hi! comes without pressure ;)

  27. 527
    Portia

    I’d be happy to see strange gods around here again, but my hi! comes without pressure ;)

    Seconded.

  28. 528
    Rutee Katreya

    Egyptians would be lucky if their new ruling generals turn out to be in the mold of Chile’s Augusto Pinochet, who took power amid chaos but hired free-market reformers and midwifed a transition to democracy.

    Suck business’ cock less, WSJ. Seriously, what kind of fucking asshole supports a dictator who disappears people solely for their free market policies? The ones that ruined Chile\s economy to boot?

  29. 529
    annejones

    I don’t know how people can support the gay agenda considering truly despicable articles that actually admitted how low activists of the movement were prepared to sink in order to “win”, so to speak. This link is called “The Overhauling of Straight America”, by Marshall Kirk and some other guy who uses a pen name. It led to the book called, After the Ball. If you just read the article you’ll clearly see how the agenda has been followed.
    http://library.gayhomeland.org/0018/EN/EN_Overhauling_Straight.htm . In particular:

    “In the early stages of any campaign to reach straight America, the masses should not be shocked and repelled by premature exposure to homosexual behavior itself. Instead, the imagery of sex should be downplayed and gay rights should be reduced to an abstract social question as much as possible. First let the camel get his nose inside the tent–only later his unsightly derriere!”

    People deny there is propaganda being spread by the gay agenda. It’s obvious that is a lie. Go to the link above and look at how closely the homosexualism movement has followed that agenda. Truth is that both sides have agendas, and why Pro-Gays try to lie out of that is beyond me, but it’s another strike against their credibility when they tell such an obvious lie. No political movement has ever existed that didn’t have an agenda.

    As for propaganda, if it doesn’t exist then what do those hundreds of pro-homosexualism organizations do??

  30. 530
    Portia

    As for propaganda, if it doesn’t exist then what do those hundreds of pro-homosexualism organizations do??

    I dunno…what are you doing?

    Would you prefer that we flew flags depicting same-sex sex? I don’t even understand what you’re on about.

  31. 531
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ Horde

    [sgbm]

    No worries,I only sent well wishes and said he is missed around these parts. I won’t bug.

    …………………………..

    @ Nick Gotts

    your waffling about what might have happened,

    Ah, you mean things like the : “allowed to continue with destroying the economy, demonising the Copts, shutting out alternative voices, bypassing state institutions and the like”, that I waffled about. The exact same things that that sea of protesters calling for Morsi’s ousting were waffling about. The shit that Morsi won’t get to do anymore, now that they have succeeded (for better or for worse).

    I already gave a citation to the statement of the Head of the US Council on Foreign Relations just before the coup…

    You mean a tweet? That is what got all those people so riled up and taking to the streets?

    … and to the fact that following it, US aid to the Egyptian military has not been suspended in accordance with established policy.

    McCain to the rescue!

    fuck it up, in the space of a year.

    Er, I said “fucking”. The process might well have taken more than a year. As for the precise disquisition, my phone doesn’t have tweets. (Al Arabiya : “Its all about the economy stupid.”)

    Not really the angle I would have approached it from. Rather I would look at how Morsi attempted to marginalise woman and minorities and then consider if this could have done anything other than ruin the economy still further.

    So why are you supporting a military coup?

    No. I wish there was a better way, a third way. Having said that though, I am currently of the opinion that the Egyptian people have made their will known.

    Nick, you might like to channel more of Irfan Ahmad: Egypt, de-democratised.

    I’m saying your response to al-Sisi’s condonation of the serious sexual assault on women demonstrators is shamefully half-hearted.


    And I’m saying your response to Obama’s condonation
    …. er, wait, this will get pathetic pretty soon. Why go for this type rhetorical slight-of hand? You know what’s wrong with it and still you do it. If you have some point to make about me personally, go ahead. If you wish to elucidate that other person’s current position on this form of sexual assault, feel free to do that too. Just don’t confuse the issues.

  32. 532
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Go to the link above and look at how closely the homosexualism movement has followed that agenda.

    Please show your link isn’t anti-gay propaganda. From the name, it is, like everything you link to, which is RW presuppositional Xian propaganda. Which is why your inane opinion is not paid attention to. Yawn, try google scholar if you want real evidence.

  33. 533
    Rutee Katreya

    People deny there is propaganda being spread by the gay agenda.

    If you’re ignorant enough to think we’re unified in one agenda…

    I don’t know how people can support the gay agenda considering truly despicable articles that actually admitted how low activists of the movement were prepared to sink in order to “win”, so to spea

    Nothing in that article’s ‘despicable’. “We’re going ot make being gay look normal, because it should be considered normal”. “Despicable” is coming on here and whinging about how the gays are propagandizing, as if that was a pure evil, while also spreading propaganda yourself on how ‘the gays’ have a single unified agenda that’s bad. Fuck off.

  34. 534
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    As for propaganda, if it doesn’t exist then what do those hundreds of pro-homosexualism organizations do??

    THEY ARE MAKING YOU GAY BY INSERTING GAY THOUGHTS INTO YOUR GAY MIND WHENEVER YOU SEE, READ OR HEAR THE WORD GAY.

    They’re very good with mind control, those pro-homosexuals. *nods head*

    Mhm.

  35. 535
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    see, read

    I seem to be repeating repeating myself.

    I blame gays.

  36. 536
    annejones

    No Nerd #532, it actually is a Pro-Gay piece.

  37. 537
    Portia

    Advocacy ≠ propoganda, douchenozzle. (Not that I even care to click over to whatever you linked).

  38. 538
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    No Nerd #532, it actually is a Pro-Gay piece.

    Since I would never hit the link from a known liar and bullshitter, and right wing Xian thug such as yourself, I’ll never know what it really says. Let’s just say my bullshit detector is going off full blast from you.

  39. 539
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ annejones

    I, for one, welcome our new Gay Overlords.

  40. 540
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Oh, and annejones, if I want to know what gays and lesbians think, I’ll shut the fuck up and listen to them, as I have for years. Listening is an effective tool for developing empathy. Learn to use it yourself instead of preaching.

  41. 541
    annejones

    The beginning of the article says:

    “The first order of business is desensitization of the American public concerning gays and gay rights. To desensitize the public is to help it view homosexuality with indifference instead of with keen emotion. Ideally, we would have straights register differences in sexual preference the way they register different tastes for ice cream or sports games: she likes strawberry and I like vanilla; he follows baseball and I follow football. No big deal.

    At least in the beginning, we are seeking public desensitization and nothing more. We do not need and cannot expect a full “appreciation” or “understanding” of homosexuality from the average American. You can forget about trying to persuade the masses that homosexuality is a good thing. But if only you can get them to think that it is just another thing, with a shrug of their shoulders, then your battle for legal and social rights is virtually won. And to get to shoulder-shrug stage, gays as a class must cease to appear mysterious, alien, loathsome and contrary. A large-scale media campaign will be required in order to change the image of gays in America. And any campaign to accomplish this turnaround should do six things.”

    In other words, pretty much admitting that they have no argument that could possibly show homosexuality to be “moral”, but that they have to spin-doctor their way into getting accepted via more dubious methods. In any case, it is DEFINITELY Pro-Gay. Marshall Kirk, the guy who wrote the article, is a known LGBT rights activist. And judging from the article, also a dishonest scumbag who looked to get gay marriage and other extensions of so-called “equality” via shady methods.

    Speaking of “equality”? Another lie meant to deceive the public into believing that homosexualists are just a group of innocent people who’s interests are not harmful to society. They want the right to assure that kids are raised without their biological parents. They want access to the minds of everyone’s children, usurping parental rights to decide what is included in their children’s education. They want access to school curriculums so as to indoctrinate against any religious beliefs parents wish to teach their children. They want to eliminate a person’s right to conscientiously object to being forced to take part in ceremonies celebrating homosexualism. They want to eliminate the rights of religious organizations to stop homosexualists from using their property for uses which are contradictory to those organizations, etc, etc. Those are not the benign interests that you portray them as being, so go try to sell that crap to someone gullible enough to buy it.

  42. 542
    Portia

    In other words, pretty much admitting that they have no argument that could possibly show homosexuality to be “moral”,

    If you want to impose your idea of morality on other people, the burden is on you to demonstrate a given policy’s immorality. But you can’t do that without lying.

    so go try to sell that crap to someone gullible enough to buy it.

    Mmm, yes, I distinctly recall following you around hollering at you about gay rights. Oh wait…you came here.

    They want the right to assure that kids are raised without their biological parents. They want access to the minds of everyone’s children, usurping parental rights to decide what is included in their children’s education. They want access to school curriculums so as to indoctrinate against any religious beliefs parents wish to teach their children. They want to eliminate a person’s right to conscientiously object to being forced to take part in ceremonies celebrating homosexualism. They want to eliminate the rights of religious organizations to stop homosexualists from using their property for uses which are contradictory to those organizations, etc, etc.

    Who are “they” and where do “they” say this?

  43. 543
    Portia

    (Why yes, I’m procrastinating, why do you ask?)

  44. 544
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    I, for one, welcome our new gay overlords.

    *ahem*

    I also holler at the brontosaurus. If it is not too late to holler.

  45. 545
    Rutee Katreya

    In other words, pretty much admitting that they have no argument that could possibly show homosexuality to be “moral”, but that they have to spin-doctor their way into getting accepted via more dubious methods.

    Uh, we have ethical arguments centered around the acceptance of gay people, you complete fucking jackass. Asshole like you ignore them and whinge about how your petty tyrant of a deity says its ‘immoral’. That doesn’t mean we lack good arguments, it means you, and people like you, are jackasses who prefers her imaginary deity to being a good person.

    In any case, it is DEFINITELY Pro-Gay. Marshall Kirk, the guy who wrote the article, is a known LGBT rights activist. And judging from the article, also a dishonest scumbag who looked to get gay marriage and other extensions of so-called “equality” via shady methods.

    None of htat qualifies as ‘shady’.

    They want the right to assure that kids are raised without their biological parents

    So do straight people, when it pleases them.

    They want access to the minds of everyone’s children, usurping parental rights to decide what is included in their children’s education.

    You want that same access, you just want it to dictate jackassery.

    They want to eliminate a person’s right to conscientiously object to being forced to take part in ceremonies celebrating homosexualism.

    Actually, you never had that right in your capacity as a government official. We’re not trying to take away an extant right, only ensure you jackasses don’t create a new one just to protest the gays.

  46. 546
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ annejones

    Let me be straight with you: I don’t give a fuck about other peoples’ sex lives!

    Why would I?

    Why do you?

    What I do care about is people like you, annejones, who spend their time trying to undermine my fellow humans’ basic human rights.

    You are mean-spirited.
    You are immoral.
    You are the problem.

  47. 547
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Another lie meant to deceive the public into believing that homosexualists are just a group of innocent people who’s interests are not harmful to society.

    If they are harmful to society it is up to you to evidence your claim, with proper third party scientific evidence, say from google scholar. Somehow, as is typical from you, your posts are heavy on claims and presuppositions, light on evidence.

  48. 548
    Chris Clarke

    annejones, you are wrong, you are broken, and your side is losing.

    In fifty years, perhaps much sooner, the vast majority of people will look at statements like yours and shudder in revulsion.

    Your children and grandchildren will disavow you. They will be ashamed at having sprung from someone who would have said such things. Who among your acquaintances boasts of their descent from slave traders?

    With any luck, you will be among the people who recall your previous statements with loathing. It’s not too late to look within yourself, seek out the sickness that causes you to spout such hate, and work to root it out.

  49. 549
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    annejones is horribly out of the loop. She somehow got her hands on the *Gay Reich* Sooper-Secret 5-Year Strategy from…1999! Guess what, annejones. There’s a new augmented plan, which builds on our early successes to corrupt the childrens and turn pro-athletes gay. We are so far beyond propaganda. We have Science on our side. And the US Army, which turned completely gay after *don’t ask don’t tell* was abolished. Ever heard of the gay-ray? We got one. It’s already in orbit. By October, it will be fully operational. So enjoy heterosexuality while you can. Because after October, its no more babeez for no one.
     

  50. 550
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ AE

    {lifts claw to proboscis} Shhhhhhhh….

    [whisper] teh sekrit mesarge has been sented [/whisper]

    @ annejones

    While you are on google scholar, can you find any animal population on earth that does not have a substantial homosexual component? Some animals even require homosexuality in order to breed. According to Real Christians ™ it was YHWH who made the creatures, and people, as they are. Do you want to contradict YHWH?

    While we are talking about YHWH… does He or does He not have a Penis?

  51. 551
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Antiochus Epiphanes,

    It’s worse … the article is from 1987.

  52. 552
    Nick Gotts

    theophontes,

    McCain to the rescue!

    Well, if we’re going for guilt by association, the coup has been warmly welcomed by the rulers of Saudi Arabia, and by Bashar al-Assad. I’m sure you’re proud to stand alongside those paladins of democracy and women’s rights. Oh, and add Tony Blair to those you’re lining up with.

    You mean a tweet? That is what got all those people so riled up and taking to the streets?

    Now you’re just being dishonest. You asked for evidence of US approval of the coup, I gave it, now you’re pretending I’m attributing the anti-Morsi demonstrations to a tweet. Have you no shame at all?

    (Al Arabiya : “Its all about the economy stupid.”)

    You do know who owns al Arabiya and where it’s based, I assume?

    Having said that though, I am currently of the opinion that the Egyptian people have made their will known.

    See, there are these things called “elections”, designed specifically for that purpose. The Egyptians had some last year. Unpleasant as the fact is, the Islamists won them. There were some more due soon (to replace those for the lower house ruled unconstitutional after the Islamists won them) and oddly enough, the secularists were not pushing for them to be held, even though they would have been a fine chance to make known the will of the Egyptian people. Now certainly, the secularists were entirely entitled to demonstrate, to call for Morsi to resign, to undertake campaigns of strikes and occupations to pressure him to do so. As long as they did that, they had my full support. Once they called for and then backed a military coup, they lost it.

    Nick, you might like to channel more of Irfan Ahmad: Egypt, de-democratised.

    Al Jazeera is based in Qatar, so presumably this means Qatar’s rulers are anti-coup. I have read that there’s a split between Saudi Arabia and Qatar over control of the Syrian opposition, see here. Qatar is aligned with the Muslim Brotherhood, Saudi against it.

    If you have some point to make about me personally, go ahead. If you wish to elucidate that other person’s current position on this form of sexual assault, feel free to do that too.

    My point is that your desire to defend the coup is leading you to minimise al-Sisi’s grotesque misogyny – along with the long corrupt, brutal, tyrannical history of the Egyptian military, if you were actually aware of the latter. You seem to think these people have suddenly become democrats and feminists.

  53. 553
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Just a quick reminder. Earlier this year, annejones completely destroyed atheism and the theory of evolution with just one post.

    And this is the blog she created about that event. Funny how annejones moniker links back to this page and not to her Triumph.

    (How come I am not at all surprised that it turns out that annejones is homophobic and believes that we LGBT people are out to destroy society?)

  54. 554
    Tethys

    annejones

    The “gay agenda” is to have full equality and rights, just like straight people. These rights include being able to marry the person you love, have children if you so desire, and the concommitant property and heredity rights that come along with those legal relationships.

    Get something through your haze of fear and bigotry:

    You cannot be turned gay, and there is no such thing as an agenda to make straight people gay.
    Homosexuality is a normal mode, deal with it.
    —–

    I also welcome our gay overlords. The food, drink, and decor are simply fabulous!

  55. 555
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Earlier this year, annejones completely destroyed atheism and the theory of evolution with just one post.

    Gee, her evidence for her imaginary deity existing, and her holy book not being a book of mythology fiction, seemed to have disappeared, almost like it never existed except in her mind. Typical presuppositional bullshitting. Get your ass handed to you with facts and evidence, and pretend victory anyway. Not the sign of a rational thinking person.

  56. 556
    ChasCPeterson

    homosexualists…homosexualism

    ? Are these terms some sort of dogwhiatle?

    They want to eliminate a person’s right to conscientiously object to being forced to take part in ceremonies celebrating homosexualism.

    yeah, I think you’re misusing the word ‘conscientiously’ here. Also who is being forced to take part in ‘ceremonies’? Do they involve the ritual sacrifice of BABIES????

  57. 557
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Oh, annejones is that annejones. The name was familiar, but I couldn’t remember the details.

    Hi, hi. What a fool.

  58. 558
    ChasCPeterson

    Funny how annejones moniker links back to this page and not to her Triumph.

    uh, I think you’ll find that’s true of everybody’s ‘moniker’.

  59. 559
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Do they involve the ritual sacrifice of BABIES????

    Well, if they don’t then I’m not going.

  60. 560
    ChasCPeterson

    can you find any animal population on earth that does not have a substantial homosexual component?

    hmm. Is it still the naturalistic fallacy if a Creator is posited?

  61. 561
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    You are right, Chas. I am afraid I missed that change to this blog.

  62. 562
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    It’s worse … the article is from 1987.

    Oh. That was long before I was actively recruited in the schools from heterosexuality, and forced to take part in ceremonies celebrating homosexualism. Maybe that was a 20-year strategic plan.

  63. 563
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    The manuscript that I am editing uses the term “noteworthily” two times. It is a completely cromulent word, but just one that is rarely encountered. Much less twice in a day. Carry on./

  64. 564
    anteprepro

    So, wait, this is what annejones originally objected to:

    In the early stages of any campaign to reach straight America, the masses should not be shocked and repelled by premature exposure to homosexual behavior itself. Instead, the imagery of sex should be downplayed and gay rights should be reduced to an abstract social question as much as possible.

    Yes, it is all just a diabolical, underhanded conspiracy that the discussion of gay rights doesn’t focus itself in detailed discussions of the mechanics of gay sex. Because Propaganda. Obviously.

    I’m sure that the people talking about the Glories Of Straight Marriage just babble on and on, in nigh pornographic detail, about the wonders of Penis In Vagina, salivating on the Senate floor about how Straight Marriage should be the one true marriage because of the superior, appealing mechanics of straight sex.

    What’s that you say? They don’t? The opponents of gay marriage are just as abstract? And if they get into details about sexual acts, it is always about Icky Gheys, and they rarely ever dare to talk about what straight couples do, even for the sake of comparison? Well, fancy that.

  65. 565
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    I normally respect people enough to read comments in their entirety before posting, but in this case I am making an exception.

    FUCK YOU annejones AND THE REPREHENSIBLE, GENOCIDAL BUTCHER YOU WORSHIP.

    No human rights, gay, trans, women, PoC, mentally ill, or physically disabled should be up for a vote. The ‘gay agenda’ is about equality you bigoted throwback!

  66. 566
    David Marjanović

    our four Mandarin-speaking cats

    =^_^= māo =^_^=

    (That’s how they pronounce it, right?)

    Islam is,pretty fucken evidently the most horrible, cruel hateful uber-right-wing mainstream religion there is. It is oppresses women, covers them head to toe

    Even the most pious Turkish women in Germany and Austria bare their feet and wear open shoes or sandals when the weather is warm enough. They’re covered head to ankle and wrist.

    (The less pious ones dress like everyone else.)

    Not quite sure where Chas’s line of questioning is going

    John Kwok.

    I don’t know how people can support the gay agenda considering truly despicable articles that actually admitted how low activists of the movement were prepared to sink in order to “win”, so to speak. This link is called “The Overhauling of Straight America”, by Marshall Kirk and some other guy who uses a pen name. It led to the book called, After the Ball. If you just read the article you’ll clearly see how the agenda has been followed.
    http://library.gayhomeland.org/0018/EN/EN_Overhauling_Straight.htm . In particular:

    …What the fuck?

    What next? Will you link to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion?

    The beginning of the article says:

    “The first order of business is desensitization of the American public concerning gays and gay rights.

    …because the American public is the only public in the world.

    *Picard & Riker double facepalm*

    animal

    What? What has size got to do with it? Does size matter now?

    And this is the blog she created about that event. Funny how annejones moniker links back to this page and not to her Triumph.

    Funny also that she has never responded to any of the 11 comments to her post. Has she even noticed they exist?

    uh, I think you’ll find that’s true of everybody’s ‘moniker’.

    Only those who haven’t put a link to somewhere else in their profile.

  67. 567
    omnicrom

    So Annejones: Your shocking expose is that gay people want their sexual orientation considered normal, to not be ostracized by society, and to have their relationships represented equally under the law. Wow. You may have come to the wrong blog cupcake, that’s what we want and believe already. Clearly we’ve been brainwashed by the evil gay agenda that thinks that what 2 consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home is no business of ours.

    If you seriously believe that TEH GAY is an evil that must be purged from society then prove it. The null hypothesis is that a Homosexual person is no more and no less moral, good, and just than a heterosexual person. Unless, and until you can provide some evidence that being Gay is intrinsically harmful (There’s plenty of extrinsic harm courtesy of people like you) we will continue to support the dreaded GAY AGENDA.

    Oh and if you bring up the sham Regnerus study we will laugh you off the blog.

  68. 568
    kouras

    annejones @ #541

    And to get to shoulder-shrug stage, gays as a class must cease to appear mysterious, alien, loathsome and contrary. A large-scale media campaign will be required in order to change the image of gays in America. And any campaign to accomplish this turnaround should do six things.”

    Seems fair enough. It’s so easy to live out life happily when a disproportionately large number of people think – or are willing to act as if – you’re not a fucking human.

    In other words, pretty much admitting that they have no argument that could possibly show homosexuality to be “moral”

    It’s reading rather more as though they recognise that people with views like yours can’t be argued out of positions they didn’t reason themselves into.

    Speaking of “equality”? Another lie meant to deceive the public into believing that homosexualists are just a group of innocent people who’s interests are not harmful to society. They want the right to assure that kids are raised without their biological parents. They want access to the minds of everyone’s children, usurping parental rights to decide what is included in their children’s education.

    O.o

    Further to Antiprepo @ #564, wouldn’t campaigning with detailed representations of the mechanics of homosexual intercourse cause you to be even more affronted, using much the same points as here, but with a slightly different emphasis?

    You can’t have your cake and eat it. In this argument, you have reached the end of cake.

    They want to eliminate the rights of religious organizations to stop homosexualists from using their property for uses which are contradictory to those organizations, etc, etc

    I was under the impression that most current legislation allowing for same-sex marriage did not compel any religious body to carry out ceremonies if this contradicted their beliefs. WRT ‘religious rights’, the audience here is unlikely to be sympathetic.

  69. 569
    Lofty

    On gay marriage, not all religious leaders support the bigots’ position. Kevin Rudd’s change of mind angers the Australian Christian Lobby.
    Boo hoo.

  70. 570
    Amphiox

    Another vivid display of the utter odious bankruptcy of religion-inspired “moral” thought, provided courtesy of annejones.

  71. 571
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ Nick Gotts

    Well, if we’re going for guilt by association

    What is wrong with McCain? If he is calling for due diligence wrt American policy in this regard, he is merely doing his job. (That he sometimes comes across as a buffoon is quite a separate issue.)

    I’m sure you’re proud to stand alongside those paladins of democracy and women’s rights

    There are some dreadful bigots on both sides. Neither side seems to have too much concern for the very real day-to-day struggles of the Egyptians. Standing opposed to the Saudi bigots are the Muslim Brotherhood bigots (follow my linky above). Your projection is noted.

    Nick, its all about people at the end of the day. The people. Not abstractions, processes, power players and politics. Not if these do not deliver some upliftment of a suffering people. They have seen enough of Morsi hijacking their revolution, trampling on their rights, betraying their hard earned democracy… What is it with all this tough love?

    You do know who owns al Arabiya and where it’s based, I assume?

    The “take care, there are Saudi investors in this company” didn’t tip you off that I am aware of this? Such an article could easily have appeared in the American -or most any – media, there is nothing particularly untoward about it. (Somehow my href and abbr had a lovechild, my apologies if your browser could not parse.)

    pretending I’m attributing the anti-Morsi demonstrations to a tweet.

    No, of course I realise you are not quite that obtuse. I’m mocking your idea that the US can stick its entire policy towards Egypt in a tweet. That it somehow carries all the weight you appear to impute.

    As long as they did that, they had my full support. Once they called for and then backed a military coup, they lost it.

    I am fairly sure they did this out of shear desperation, and lack of alternatives, rather than a nationwide conspiracy to hurt your feefees.

    so presumably this means Qatar’s rulers are anti-coup.

    Crap! What if the journalist is actually personally convinced of the strength of his own argument and wrote the article – unaided by a whole fucking Qatari Minitrue Commitee that flies out to Australia in little black helicopters to tell him what to think…?

    My point is that your desire to defend the coup is leading you to minimise al-Sisi’s grotesque misogyny.

    More crap. I notice your own complete lack of critique, of his grotesque misogyny, in your original post in this regard. There is a helluva lot to criticize in both Morsi (the inveterate misogynist fuck) and al-Sisi (the marginally-less-inveterate misogynist fuck).

    .

    You are upset at the harm done to the ideal of “democracy”, I am upset at the harm that was being done to actual, flesh-and-blood people. Certainly it would be better if neither had suffered.

    ….

    @ David Marjanović

    =^_^= māo =^_^=

    (That’s how they pronounce it, right?)

    “The Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers”…

    Fat Freddy: Ever seen a talking cat?

    Phineas: No.

    Fat Freddy (to his cat): Tell me cat, who is the glorious chairman of the Chinese People’s Revolutionary Party?

    (pulls cat’s tail)

    Cat: “MAO!”

    What? What has size got to do with it? Does size matter now?

    No. The cut off was rather arbitrary, I just wanted annejones to think of a small non-human cute critter, without getting all Ecdysozoa-ic on her.

    (My apologies to the greater portion of the Earth’s living biomass for leaving you out.)

  72. 572
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ Chas

    Sorry, I was distracted by a tasty bowl of pan-baked potatoes for lunch and missed your comment:

    hmm. Is it still the naturalistic fallacy if a Creator is posited?

    Just a noteworthy observation, made when annejones starts spouting about teh immoral ghey agenda. Animals can be gay without such. This is more the thin end of the wedge, to change annejone’s orientation in this argument, rather than a deep theophilosophical insight.

  73. 573
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    Further, someone made a list for Pfffffft: List of animals displaying homosexual behavior

    Homosexuality in animals is seen as controversial by social conservatives because it asserts the naturalness of homosexuality in humans, while others counter that it has no implications and is nonsensical to equate animal behavior to morality.

    I was looking for an old discussion on Pharyngula concerning homosexuality in snakes and how this formed an important part of their reproduction. Might have been garter snakes? My googlefoo is failing me.

  74. 574
    Nick Gotts

    theophontes,

    I’m mocking your idea that the US can stick its entire policy towards Egypt in a tweet. That it somehow carries all the weight you appear to impute.

    *sigh* Your naivity might be touching if it were not so infuriating. Obama wanted to signal approval for a coup, but to do so deniably. What better way than to nudge the head of the CFR?

    As long as they did that, they had my full support. Once they called for and then backed a military coup, they lost it.

    I am fairly sure they did this out of shear desperation, and lack of alternatives, rather than a nationwide conspiracy to hurt your feefees.

    My “fee-fees” have nothing to do with it, you silly person. What does, is the fact that de facto military rule has now been established for the indefinite future in Egypt. There was certainly not a lack of alternatives. The army and police were not repressing demonstrations – note that elements of the then opposition were able to burn down the Muslim Brotherhood HQ without interference, so demonstrations and peaceful occupations could certainly have continued. Accompanied by a series of one-day general strikes – after all, if the Egyptian people were so overwhelmingly against Morsi, these would have garnered huge support. The motivation for most of the calls for a coup was probably understandable impatience – a desire to get Morsi out as quickly as possible – but that has led the secularists into a tragic error.

    so presumably this means Qatar’s rulers are anti-coup.

    Crap! What if the journalist is actually personally convinced of the strength of his own argument and wrote the article – unaided by a whole fucking Qatari Minitrue Commitee that flies out to Australia in little black helicopters to tell him what to think…?

    That naivity again. Qatar is an absolute monarchy. Al Jazeera needs to maintain a reputation for factual accuracy, but the editorial line will always be regally approved. Similarly, Al Arabiya’s editorial line will reflect the views of the Saudi and Dubai monarchies.

    My point is that your desire to defend the coup is leading you to minimise al-Sisi’s grotesque misogyny.

    More crap. I notice your own complete lack of critique, of his grotesque misogyny, in your original post in this regard. There is a helluva lot to criticize in both Morsi (the inveterate misogynist fuck) and al-Sisi (the marginally-less-inveterate misogynist fuck).

    Actually, I linked to a description al-Sisi’s role in the systematic sexual assault of women demonstrators the first time I mentioned him. I don’t know how you think you can judge Morsi to be more misogynistic than al-Sisi, but then, you seem to think you know a lot more about the whole situation than you really do.

    You are upset at the harm done to the ideal of “democracy”,

    Oh just fuck off. You are stupid enough to trust a bunch of corrupt thugs, who have seized power with the support of some of the most brutal and reactionary regimes in the world, to behave decently. I’m not.

    I am upset at the harm that was being done to actual, flesh-and-blood people.

    Ah. Like the 50+ people shot dead by the military in Cairo and elsewhere since the coup, and the unknown number injured, or seized and imprisoned in unknown locations.

  75. 575
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    I don’t know “whose” Le Monde is, but they had some strong words to say about the army violence.
    http://www.lemonde.fr/idees/article/2013/07/09/en-egypte-l-inadmissible-violence-de-l-armee_3444735_3232.html

  76. 576
    =8)-DX

    Cardinal Pell’s hearing transcript is up, btw…

    The quote “Some of the victims weren’t entirely blameless” doesn’t seem to be in it.

  77. 577
    Kevin, 友好火猫 (Friendly Fire Cat)

    Teh Gay Agenda:

    1) Wake up
    2) Eat breakfast
    3) Curse at traffic
    4) Work
    5) Lunch
    6) Work
    7) Curse at traffic
    8) Dinner
    9) Sleep

  78. 578
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    1) Wake up from bed filled with formerly straight people, now debauched and corrupted
    2) Eat breakfast while checking emails with more gay propaganda
    3) Curse at traffic yeah, curse them into gays
    4) Work making gay propaganda
    5) Lunch a bit of rest from your mission… but you do leave some gay propaganda fliers on the counter/restaurant
    6) Work more and more and more gay propaganda
    7) Curse at traffic more innocents cursed with gayness
    8) Dinner indulging your atheist sweet tooth
    9) Sleep only after all the debauchery

    I see through your evasions of truth
    :D

  79. 579
    Kevin, 友好火猫 (Friendly Fire Cat)

    @Beatrice:

    Shhh! You’re not supposed to tell them the stuff that we can only see with rainbow-colored lenses!

  80. 580
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Sorry. I just like the word debauched and this was a chance to use it.

    (Unfortunately, I’m not entirely sure how it is pronounced)

  81. 581
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    Beatrice: It’s pronounced dee’-bow-shade’ with equal stress on the first and third syllable. Trust me. :)

  82. 582
    Jacob Schmidt

    annejones

    In other words, pretty much admitting that they have no argument that could possibly show homosexuality to be “moral”[1], but that they have to spin-doctor their way into getting accepted via more dubious methods.[2]

    1) You misundertsand: homosexuality isn’t moral. Heterosexuality isn’t moral. Sexuality at all isn’t moral. The issue here is that it’s immoral to deny other’s their rights based on their sexual preference.

    2) What’s dubious about this? They want the relevance of sexual preference to be on par with the relevance of ice cream preference.

    In any case, it is DEFINITELY Pro-Gay. Marshall Kirk, the guy who wrote the article, is a known LGBT rights activist. And judging from the article, also a dishonest scumbag[1] who looked to get gay marriage and other extensions of so-called “equality”[2] via shady methods[3].

    1) A scumbag who, apparently, is paradoxically honest about his dishonesty. Unless we’re assuming that he’s lying in that article, in which case he’s lying about the lies you’re claiming he lied about.

    2) Why the scare quotes? What do gays want that can’t be described as equality?

    3) See above

    Speaking of “equality”? Another lie[1] meant to deceive the public into believing that homosexualists[2] are just a group of innocent people who’s interests are not harmful to society. They want the right to assure[3] that kids are raised without their biological parents[4]. They want access to the minds of everyone’s children[5], usurping parental rights to decide what is included in their children’s education[6].

    1) Evidence? No?

    2) What the bloody fuck?

    3) Mere assurance isn’t a problem, is it? Now were they to ensure such a thing, I might see a problem.

    4) How would that even be feasible? Would they take over the government and create a police task force to break into the homes of heterosexual parents, kidnapping their children?

    5) Your projecting your churches wants onto gays.

    6) Fun fact: parents don’t have this choice. Eduaction standards are set by the school board. Generally, the board take input from parents, but the final say comes from a small group of people, most of whom don’t have kids in the school system at all.

    They want access to school curriculums so as to indoctrinate against any religious beliefs parents wish to teach their children.[1] They want to eliminate a person’s right to conscientiously object to being forced to take part in ceremonies celebrating homosexualism.[2] They want to eliminate the rights of religious organizations to stop homosexualists from using their property for uses which are contradictory to those organizations, etc, etc.[3] Those are not the benign interests that you portray them as being, so go try to sell that crap to someone gullible enough to buy it.

    1) See above, e.g. projection; I think we can also safely assume that you’re no fan of evolution.

    2) Ceremonies celebrating sexuality, oh my! Seriously, what ceremonies? As an aside, what are your opinions an prayer within school and government ceremonies?

    3) Once more, how is this even feasible?

    Nice, White, Christian Man: “Stop! Thief! That man has stolen my statue of Jesus!”

    Horrible, Evil, Gay Deviant: “Ahahaha, you’ll never catch me!”

    Police Officer Johnson: “Caught you! How dare you steal from this man?”

    N,W,C Man: “Thank you officer. It’s nice knowing that my right to religous paraphernalia is well protected in this country.”

    H,E,G Deviant: “Officer, you don’t undertand. I’m gay. I plan on doing Horrible, Evil, Gay things with that statue.”

    Off. Johnson: “Well, in that case, you have every right to have that statue. Have a good day sir.”

    N,W,C Man: “Oh the humanity! Curse you Obama!”

  83. 583
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    A.E. @549:
    Soooo, this gay ray…what effect does it have on those of us who are already Absolutely Fabulous?

  84. 584
    =8)-DX

    …what effect does it have on those of us who are already Absolutely Fabulous?

    No, no, you’re getting it all wrong! Without the gay ray, you’d suddenly start smelling, grow hair (not too much) don a cowboy hat and start looking around at the girls once more. Oh wait, cowboys are now gay.. so you’d be a.. a.. a lumberjack!

  85. 585
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Antiochus Epiphanes,
    Got it! ;)

  86. 586
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    Soooo, this gay ray…what effect does it have on those of us who are already Absolutely Fabulous?

    Get ready to have your mind blown…
     
    Absolutely Fabulouser.
     
    It is difficult to imagine, but this is exactly the result that the GR engineersare getting. You’ll become like a guitar amplifier that goes to 11.
    _______________________________________________
    =8)-DX :
    *side-eye*
     
    We are trying to have a serious conversation here.

  87. 587
    Jackie, all dressed in black

    No human rights, gay, trans, women, PoC, mentally ill, or physically disabled should be up for a vote. The ‘gay agenda’ is about equality you bigoted throwback!

    QFMFT!

    Absolutely Fabulouser.

    *mind completely blown*

  88. 588
    Jackie, all dressed in black

    FUCK YOU annejones AND THE REPREHENSIBLE, GENOCIDAL BUTCHER YOU WORSHIP.

    Seconded.

    …and I’d like to add a double middle finger salute.

    t(=-=)t

  89. 589
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Jackie, why are you being so mean to annejones. She civilly came here to civilly warn the straight people here that LGBT activists are out to degrade everything that her ever civil big sky daddy set up. Just because she accuses several classes of humanity of undermining what humanity “should” be does not mean she should be even remotely treated as how she would like we LGBT people to be treated. That is just mean and intolerant of you.

    For the sake of decorum, we must be nice to those people who do not wish for us to exist.

  90. 590
    opposablethumbs

    It’s pronounced dee’-bow-shade’ with equal stress on the first and third syllable. Trust me. :)

    Umm … no it isn’t. This clearly proves that I cannot possibly trust you ever again.

    Until next time.

    .
    .
    annejones is a real piece of work, isn’t she. How nice and civilised it must be to have one’s rights spurned and one’s very humanity impugned by only the most respectably dressed and well-spoken of vile bigots. Excuse me while I decide whether to vomit on her shiny, shiny shoes or laugh at her delusions.

  91. 591
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    I was called a FtBully by the follower (NOT A MEMBER) of AVfM. The one who uses a cattle skull for his icon.

    My life is complete.

  92. 592
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    Janine:
    Were you at least informed who was the target of your FtBullying? I would like to know which #bravehero deserves mockery this time.

  93. 593
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    opposable thumbs…
    *erk* I screwed the pooch on this one. What I meant was DAY-bo-SHADE. It’s been a few months since I made up fraunch pronunciationments.
     
    Fie on I.

  94. 594
    rorschach

    In Malta. I can see Cairo from my balcony. So to speak. Surprisingly moderate temps here, 27-29C. Turns out my hotel is in the party district, which means the units of alcohol sold in bars and pubs are buckets of beer and pitchers of vodka. The folks who mainly consume these things look about 15. Tomorrow I will go and visit some churches. And eat pizza. You can tell who invaded the place in the past!

  95. 595
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Tony, I gave enough clues about the identity of this person. Also, there is no need to go mocking for my sake. I intend to give him what he deserves. Being ignored. (The fool says that FtB is an Orwellian group. Eh. Whatever.)

  96. 596
    John Morales

    For Chas: Dippy the tortoise weighs in at 120 kilograms as forklift needed to conduct his first health check.

    Cute pics, though I doubt a forklift was actually needed; surely, six people could each lift but 20 Kg each.

  97. 597
    Ichthyic

    Another lie[1] meant to deceive the public into believing that homosexualists[2] are just a group of innocent people who’s interests are not harmful to society.

    actually, it’s the Abrahamic religiots like yourself that HAVE harmed society for hundreds of years, and the rest of us, finally realizing that, are looking to eliminate that harm from future society.

    your days are numbered.

    better get used to the idea.

    adapt or die, as they say…

  98. 598
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    Wow, the clues sailed right over my head. I got it now.

  99. 599
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    Chigau:
    If people like annejones don’t like where the US is going, they are free to move elsewhere.

  100. 600
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    My #599 was meant as a response to Ichthyic’s #597, rather than chigau.

  101. 601
    John Morales

    Justin Griffith on Patheos: [http]www.patheos.com/blogs/rockbeyondbelief/2013/07/09/why-the-move/

    PZ Myers is the only really massive draw to FtB.

    It’s no secret that Greg Laden was shit-canned from FtB for his violent threats against me. Do you remember the way PZ Myers handled the situation? He posted a public hand-washing of *me* over the disclosure of Laden’s vile words. Always name names (unless it’s when our bff’s do it?)

    Staying at FtB after being publicly renounced by the only major draw to the blog network…? Fuck that.

    He’s also a fake. PZ has a “Trophy wife”, has used ‘gendered slurs’ multiple times, such as endorsing the phrase “Science, it works bitches!” as great motto for scienceblogs, etc. Why people think he’s a super feminist ally is beyond me. If he’s only converted to this brand of feminism recently, then why all the overblown hatred for people making the same mistakes he’s made several times? Can’t they too come around?

    Heh.

  102. 602
    Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened

    Possible TW

    Apparently there is someone called Mary P Koss, who is apparently a super-influential feminist, who has done studies which deliberately excluded forced envelopment from the definition of rape. Despite me saying many times that I disagree with this and that her ideas and ideology as informed by her feminism are probably different to mine, MRAs over on Ally Fogg’s blog seem to think this means I should renounce all feminism everywhere, because I disagree with her.

    I just… I don’t even… *rageflail*

  103. 603
    rorschach

    Justin Griffith on Patheos

    Bit sad to see that the slymers are now hunting the mentally and emotionally unstable. Anything to win another soul over to their brand of hate.

  104. 604
    rorschach

    Got to say, I’m not impressed with Stephanie Zvan banning Chas from AD. Smells of cheap and petty revenge to me. Not cool.

  105. 605
    PZ Myers

    Griffith goes out of his way to embrace the slyme while whining that I’ve used gendered slurs in the past. Good riddance.

    And no, you guys don’t know the full story of the incessant whining I had to put up with from Griffith, the weird drama and childish obnoxiousness. This is the guy who made excuses for the slymepit, saying they were just a product of 4chan culture (to which I say, so what?) We made the strongest statement we could when Greg Laden made violent threats — we couldn’t do anything more serious than kicking him out of the network, short of driving over to his house and beating him up — and that wasn’t enough for Griffith.

    And now to claim that I’m the only draw here? Bullshit. That’s just sour grapes over the fact that we have a lot of blogs here that were more popular and more interesting than his.

    As for “trophy wife” — how clueless. That was a mocking reference to a right wing accusation that the woman I’ve been married to and loyal to for 33 years is simply an ornament. The whole point of it is that she’s the opposite of superficial.

  106. 606
    Jacob Schmidt

    Thumper

    Despite me saying many times that I disagree with this and that her ideas and ideology as informed by her feminism are probably different to mine, MRAs over on Ally Fogg’s blog seem to think this means I should renounce all feminism everywhere, because I disagree with her.

    It seems to be a weird inversion of the “clean up your house” argument. Except instead of denouncing wrongful acts of others within the larger tent, were not allowed any association at all. It’s like any sort of significant blemish taints the label entirely, and were supposed to ignore the good feminism has done.

  107. 607
    Rutee Katreya

    …oh no, not the dude who was okay with the Slymepit and posted a loving paean thanking soldiers for preventing the atomic bombs from dropping, anything but that.

  108. 608
    Tethys

    Griffith goes out of his way to embrace the slyme while whining that I’ve used gendered slurs in the past. Good riddance.

    I have come to the conclusion that being in the military fucks up people by celebrating every aspect of toxic masculinity as a good thing. I am currently 6 months in to the process of reprogramming my son after a ten year enlistment period.

    I quit reading Justin when he decided that he was going to be the #bravehero who brokered peace between the horde and the slymepit. What a dipshit.

  109. 609
    Rutee Katreya

    Re: Mary P Koss as an influential figure
    PRetty sure you can discard any claims that someone who lacks a wikipedia page entirely was a hugely influential person in a movement as massive as feminism. She could surely have still been influential, since it’s just hte pfft, but not THAT big a deal. I’ve certainly nevah hoid of her.

  110. 610
    Jacob Schmidt

    PRetty sure you can discard any claims that someone who lacks a wikipedia page entirely was a hugely influential person in a movement as massive as feminism.

    The argument is that she was influential in creating policies for the reporting of male rape victims (e.g. she excludes any victims that haven’t been penetrated; sex without consent doesn’t count). It seems to be true, as far as I can tell.

  111. 611
    Rutee Katreya

    The argument doesn’t stop there though. It’s not just ‘she did things’. They also seem to be implying that she shaped feminism to <3 these things, and that anyone who doesn't is No True Feminist.

  112. 612
    Jacob Schmidt

    The argument doesn’t stop there though. It’s not just ‘she did things’. They also seem to be implying that she shaped feminism to <3 these things, and that anyone who doesn't is No True Feminist.

    Yeeaah, they took reasonable criticism to “if you don’t give up the whole movement, you deserve to be accused of supporting her!”.

  113. 613
    Rutee Katreya

    …Also, having just watched The Wrath of Khan for the first time, I’d apparently forgotten that Khan wasn’t a white dude. I’m now quite irritated at the ridiculously white dude they got for him in the Abrams reboot version of Wrath of Khan.

  114. 614
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    I never knew Justin was trying to patch tbings up with the Pitters. That shows a complete lack of understanding of the problem many of us have with them.
    His comments about PZ were insulting and cheap.

    Also, what was he here FOR? His comments seem to indicate riding on PZs coattails and without PZs “support”, he’s packing his toys and leaving. Is he afraid that not having that support will affect his readership?

    His comments about PZ being the major draw to FTB, do not sit right with me. There are many other wonderful bloggers on this network. Sure, they may not have the number of followers that PZ does, but they DO have followers. They are a draw for some people. PZ =\= FtB.
    Fuck you Justin. I hope the door slams your ass on the way out.

  115. 615
    rorschach

    Tony, can I suggest that we let Griffith be? Yes the stuff he says is off and wrong and all that, but my impression is that the guy isn’t well. Let’s rather target the slyme scum that is claiming him now and is cheering him on. I personally wish Justin Griffith well, not just on Patheos, but with everything else he is doing. The internet isn’t all there is.

  116. 616
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    Ok, I have heard a few times (3? 4?) in the last few years of PZs use of gendered slurs, but I have never seen a link or even seen a quote with full context. Does such exist (not saying it is impossible, he can screw up like the rest of us, but I am not going to take Justin’s whine induced rant at face value).

    ****
    Tethys @608:
    I have wondered how to counteract the toxic effects of military indoctrination.

  117. 617
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    Rorschach:
    I was unaware of any issues Justin is dealing with. He has my sympathies there. I was not planning on doing anything more than stating my opinion, but your point is reasonable.

  118. 618
    ChasCPeterson

    I’m not impressed with Stephanie Zvan banning Chas from AD

    She did? Wow, that’s…remarkably thin-skinned.
    Well, guess I shan’t be clicking over there anymore. *shrug*

  119. 619
    rorschach

    I’m now quite irritated at the ridiculously white dude they got for him in the Abrams reboot version of Wrath of Khan.

    Yes that was quite pathetic. Cumberbatchsome, so to speak. Among many other pathetic things in that cursed remake.

    I was unaware of any issues Justin is dealing with.

    There have been major meltdowns on his blog here in the past, and in a way that people were concerned. I don’t think he is a well guy, so I’m thinking we best lay off, just to be on the safe side.

  120. 620
    Eurasian magpie

    Tony, this is the link to the “infamous” bitchez post.
    http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/08/07/it-works-bitches/

  121. 621
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Wow. Nine years ago. So what PZMyers did nine years ago is comparable to the shitblizzard of the past three years coming from the pit?

  122. 622
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Shit. I cannot do maths anyome Seven years ago, not nine. Sorry. I do have an excuse though.

  123. 623
    Jacob Schmidt

    Chas

    She says she’s banned you before. For what, I have no idea.

  124. 624
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Shit. I cannot do maths anyome Seven years ago, not nine. Sorry. I do have an excuse though.

  125. 625
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    I’m pissed off at Ophelia Benson for praising some piece of shit who wrote a horrible article about Sylvia Plath. And I’m not even a Plath fan.

    (the shit article: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/jul/11/sylvia-plath-the-unbearable/?pagination=false&printpage=true)

    I think the mocking on the part of the author of Plath being suicidal is what got to me. Oh, her writings were so morbid and there was so much talk about death and death was made sexy… *horror*
    Well, fuck you.

  126. 626
    Tethys

    Tony

    I have wondered how to counteract the toxic effects of military indoctrination.

    So far it has consisted of scary amounts of uncontrollable anger, lots of fighting followed by lots of talking, some anti-anxiety meds, and a behavioral therapist. The meds and therapist are helping, but OMG is it annoying to have your kid mansplain to you, especially about things he knows nothing about!

    The authoritarian culture works in the military, not so much in normal social situations. Hell no am I going to put up with it in my home. I do not take orders from anyone but my boss. (son and spouse moved in mid December)

  127. 627
    David Marjanović

    Beatrice, thanks for the link to the article in Le Monde.

    Fat Freddy (to his cat): Tell me cat, who is the glorious chairman of the Chinese People’s Revolutionary Party?

    (pulls cat’s tail)

    Cat: “MAO!”

    Uh, that guy was Máo, with an inbuilt question mark. His name means “hair”, not “cat”.

    *erk* I screwed the pooch on this one. What I meant was DAY-bo-SHADE. It’s been a few months since I made up fraunch pronunciationments.

    It Is Pronounced TroPAY

    saying they were just a product of 4chan culture

    what

    Defending stuff by saying it’s a product of 4chan culture? Does not compute.

  128. 628
    chigau (違う)

    David Marjanović
    Mao

  129. 629
    PZ Myers

    Heh. My infamous use of a gendered slur is simply echoing Randall Munroe. Not that that excuses it, but it’s time for them to damn xkcd.

  130. 630
    anteprepro

    Huh. Justin left recently? I figured that he would have jumped ship before now. Especially considering the age of the issues on his list of grievances. Go figure.

  131. 631
    cicely

    *cautiously peeking in*
    Dhorvath!
    *pouncehug*
    and rorschach!
    *alsopouncehug*
    -
    *hugs (without easily-misunderstood pouncing (possibly a bad idea in the general vicinity of survivors of The Military))* and sympathy for Tethys&Son.
    -
    Huh. I expected to see more on proposals for Painting The TownDesert RedWhite.
    ;)
    -

  132. 632
    ChasCPeterson

    She says she’s banned you before. For what, I have no idea.

    huh, me neither. Probably I somehow impugned her bff Laden. Or I might have called her (heh) ‘Sarge’.
    whatever.

  133. 633
    Ichthyic

    …just judging on her reactions to your post about evo psych, I think it’s because she finds you personally irritating to her viewpoint.

    It’s understandable. You are personally irritating to her viewpoint. for the most part, I think u were right though, FWIW.

    I find you personally irritating at times too, even when ur right.

    I wouldn’t ban u for it though. Seems a bit defensive.

  134. 634
    Jacob Schmidt

    Defending stuff by saying it’s a product of 4chan culture? Does not compute.

    Oh, please. You just don’t understand how freeing it is!

  135. 635
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ Nick Gotts

    Obama wanted to signal approval for a coup, but to do so deniably. What better way than to nudge the head of the CFR?

    I have tried to find any mention of this “fact” anywhere on the interwebz. I don’t know if this is through collusion of the world’s media cabal or that I’m just not trying hard enough. Perhaps you can help. It just appears to me you have built a big story, inverted-pyramid shaped, off of a very little tweet.

    I highly suspect confirmation bias on your part is at work here (something we all can, and do, suffer from), somehow creating far to much salience from a random tweet. Not just that, but ignoring the fact that half the message (even pretending for a moment it was any more than an arbitrary twit) somehow didn’t get through.

    I would have found something like this more pertinent:

    Exclusive: US bankrolled anti-Morsi activists. Documents reveal US money trail to Egyptian groups that pressed for president’s removal.

    Link here. The subtext seems to be that we live in a global village and that ‘Merkins put their money where their mouth is when exporting their world view. Sadly their hypocrisy also tends to get entrained into the gush of cash.

    This information, I acknowledge could also support alternative narratives. One’s of which I am admittedly a little naive. One’s that include little black helicopters, puppetmasters, twitter accounts and the like. I leave it for others to embroider on such.

    You are stupid enough to trust a bunch of corrupt thugs

    If you have one bunch of corrupt thugs facing off against another, things are bound to turn ugly. I do not support either side. There is another whole group you appear to be neglecting, that is, the vast majority of suffering Egyptians. Not that they necessarily trust the army (as you would like to accuse me of doing), but rather that they find themselves in desperate straights and find the army, at this juncture, less obnoxious than the Brotherhood thugs.

    @ rorschach

    I just want to say a big thank you for the book you recommended. I have not had the time to read very far yet, but have been enjoying it so far. In exchange I’d like to recommend Boyer’s “Religion Explained”. It ties in rather well with Kahneman’s book, and would be ideal to read afterward.
    .
    Boyer has been up on Pharyngulawiki for a while now, but for anyone that missed it here is a quick link.

    @ David Marjanović

    Máo

    I stand corrected:

    Fat Freddy (to his cat): Tell me cat, who is the glorious chairman of the Chinese People’s Revolutionary Party?

    (pulls cat’s tail)

    Cat: “MÁO!

  136. 636
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    Is that ‘freeing’ in the Slymey way that says ‘screw you, I got mine’?

  137. 637
    Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened

    Um, well… this appears to have slipped under everyone’s radar.

    The fantastic Wendy Davis may have managed to fillibuster the anti-abortion bill in Texas, but they appear to have managed to pass an anti-masturbation law. Seriously.

    The new measure will go into effect on January 1, 2014 which will make many forms of male masturbation illegal. Exceptions include sperm donations, which now must only be performed at a designated hospital facility.

    New rules will also require men to sign an agreement when obtaining prescription erectile dysfunction medication which indicates they will not use the medicine for any purposes other than sexual intercourse with a woman.

    Amendments added to the bill also require a permit to obtain and possess male sexual toys which could be used to assist people in violating the new law.

    Those found in violation of the new law could be sentenced up to two years in prison.

    What… the… actual… fuck, Texas? What the fuck?

  138. 638
    Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened

    @Rutee Katrey and Jacob Schmidt

    No, I’ve never heard of her either. But then I’m not too well versed in feminism, I’m pretty new to it. I’m basically of the opinion that women are disenfranchised by our current society, and this should not be the case. As far as I’m concerned these are the core beliefs of feminism and believing them and trying, in my own small way, to do something about it makes you a feminist. I don’t think I need to know all of the feminist literature and be able to document the actions and opinions of every feminist ever in order to call myself one.

    They appear to be labouring under the belief that feminism in one large coherent whole, and that supporting the ideology is the same as supporting the actions and opinions of every other person who supports the ideology. They also seem to be under the impression that being a feminist is the same as being a fully paid-up member of a political party. Every explananation I offer (and that Jacob offers, your posts on that thread are great) as to why they are downright wrong seems to fall on deaf ears. They have a mind-bogglingly simplistic view of the world.

  139. 639
    ChasCPeterson

    Q: Why would Coyne think that anybody wants to see a photo of his bog-standard hotel room in Vegas?

  140. 640
    Jackie, all dressed in black

    Enemy Janine,
    I’m just a big ‘ol meanie-meanie-jelly-beanie.
    I don’t know how I live with myself.

  141. 641
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    What… the… actual… fuck, Texas? What the fuck?

    not that I put anything past them but that article is satire.

    Read the other headlines…

  142. 642
    Yellow Thursday

    Thumper @637: Not to burst your bubble, but I see this little note over on the right side of the page you linked:

    Tribune Herald is for satirical purposes only.

    But, Poe’s Law and all, it seems a likely progression of the way the Texas legislature has been going.

    ——————

    I’m tired of hearing about the “gay agenda.” When do we get to hear about the pansexual agenda?

  143. 643
    rorschach

    Q: Why would Coyne think that anybody wants to see a photo of his bog-standard hotel room in Vegas?

    I’d say it’s fairly ugly for a casino hotel. What I’d like to know is what “fighting the fakers” is supposed to mean.

  144. 644
    Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened

    @Rev. and Yellow Thursday

    Ah. Well now I feel silly. A work colleague told me they had passed such a law, and a little Googling turned that page up. It never occurred to me it was satire, I just thought “Shit, he’s right!”. Confirmation bias at work.

    Sorry all, panic over!

  145. 645
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    not that I put anything past them but that article is satire.

    *whew*
     

  146. 646
    nich

    Offered without comment…

  147. 647
    vaiyt

    There we go. One more stale trick for the religiot racist homophobic asshole who got elected to lead my country’s federal human rights commission. Now he’s whining that the separation of church and state is discrimination against Evangelicals.

    Damnit, America! I don’t want you exporting this bullshit to here!

  148. 648
    David Marjanović

    not that I put anything past them but that article is satire.

    Read the other headlines…

    …and this tweet (in the right sidebar):

    Tribune Herald @TribuneHerald

    Our very own George M. Spooner is now an award winning author! He has received the “Pull”-itzer prize for coverage of the masturbation law!”

  149. 649
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    Texas: you can’t beat it!

  150. 650
    cm's changeable moniker (quaint, if not charming)

    Texas: you can’t beat it!

    It’s all down to how they’re raised: http://archive.org/details/KnifeThr1950

  151. 651
    Chilly -warming myself in the flames

    cm’s changeable moniker (quaint, if not charming) Um, yikes! I wonder where and if those girls are today.

  152. 652
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ David Marjanović

    an award winning author!

    Yeah, he had to beat off very stiff competition from Mrs Palmer and her five daughters.

    “Pull”-itzer prize

    “Pull it … *surprise!*

  153. 653
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    Hey Chris Clarke :

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/07/11/did-you-know-douchebags-are-full-of-dihydrogen-monoxide/comment-page-1/#comment-649649

    I didn’t realise it was your thread and “thought” it was PZ Meyers’ one.

    Also did you really have to delete my comment? Would it have killed you to allow an opinion that quite reasonably disagrees with yours to remain? Yeesh.

  154. 654
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    Maybe Chris Clarke your threads should be in a different colour background or something?

    Or maybe you could person up and be a bit nicer to other human beings even if they don’t always agree with you on everything?

  155. 655
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ StevoR

    Actually, I am amazed at CC’s (&PZ’s) tolerance of you on their blog.

    Also did you really have to delete my comment?

    If you are worried that the world’s gonna assplode for lack of your comment there, repost here.

  156. 656
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    I thought StevoR said he would respect the blog owner’s decision about him. Well, Chris is a master of his own threads, according to PZ, and Chris doesn’t want StevoR in his threads. Own up your words, StevoR.

    Thanks, Chris!

  157. 657
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    @ ^ Beatrice : You missed the part where I noted I thought I was commenting on one of PZ’s thread’s NOT one of Chris Clarke’s?

    I’m certainly not the first person here to find it confusing and assume they were commenting on a PZ thread when it was a Clarke one.

    Yes, okay, Chris doesn’t want me on his thread’s – I accept that although I don’t agree with his views of me or understand why he’s formed them.* Chris Clarke has badly misjudged me but that’s his decision and I do respect that.

    @ 655. theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物) :

    Actually, I am amazed at CC’s (&PZ’s) tolerance of you on their blog.

    Really? Why?

    What exactly am I supposed to have done aside from occassionally disagreeing with the hordes consensus on (only) a couple of issues. I’ve been called all sorts of false, hurtful and abusive names because I’ve expressed my opinions mostly calmly and reasonably. I admit I went OTT a couple of times and after I did, I apologised for that. I’ve learnt from this blog and try to make positive contributions here.

    Yet some here insist on caricaturing me as some dreadful strawmonster due to their own lack of actual reading comprehension and prejudices against me. Maybe its time they stopped and asked themselves if I’m really what they think I am – because, me being me, I can assure them all – incl. Chris Clarke – that I’m not.

    If you are worried that the world’s gonna assplode for lack of your comment there, ..

    The world won’t “assplode” but it will eventually be incinerated when our Sun balloons into a red giant star. I’m not “worried” just angry.

    repost here.

    Okay :

    This article seems like a storm in a teacup to me. Yes, I guess you can say that sometimes the “oldy but goodie” about dihydrogen monoxide gets used in a negative way but then not always as it can also be used positively to make folks think and give them another example.

    IOW, people don’t have to be mean in using it. They can use this joke as a teaching moment and let others in on the joke as they use it. So, yeah, not sure there’s really a necessarily a problem here.

    Which is in essence what a few others incl. Josh were typing there.

  158. 658
    John Morales

    StevoR:

    I didn’t realise it was your thread and “thought” it was PZ Meyers’ [sic] one.

    [...]

    Maybe Chris Clarke your threads should be in a different colour background or something?

    Maybe you could be bothered to read the byline of posts before commenting.

    (But then, it’s always someone else’s failure, never yours — right?)

  159. 659
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    * I know that Chris Clarke has called me offensive stuff that I’m not and abused me after I emailed him just the once and reasonably to ask him why that was and I don’t recall ever doing anything nasty to him – yes, we’ve disagreed on a couple of points but I argued rationally without resorting to personal attacks on my part – and I don’t understand his hatred towards me or why he’s so adamant that I not post on his threads.

    So, please Chris Clarke, is it too much to ask why exactly do you seem to hate me?

    Are you confusing me with someone else?

  160. 660
    John Morales

    StevoR:

    I’ve learnt from this blog and try to make positive contributions here.

    Mmm hmm.

    This article [Chris Clarke's] seems like a storm in a teacup to me.

    If you genuinely care to learn, learn to check that what you imagine an idiom to indicate matches the common meaning before blithely employing it malapropos.

    Here: storm in a teacup.

  161. 661
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    @ 658. John Morales :

    Maybe you could be bothered to read the byline of posts before commenting.

    (But then, it’s always someone else’s failure, never yours — right?)

    Wrong. I’ve fucked up in the past and have admitted that many times. Hell, I’m not claiming to be perfect here as you’d know from the “fallible human being” part I used to have in my ‘nym. Just because I’ve changed that doesn’t mean I now think I’m the Pope!

    And, yes, you are correct. I should’ve checked the byline there. Mea culpa.

  162. 662
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    StevoR,
    Yes, well, my comment was about your gracious acceptance of Chris not wanting you here that you have shown in those two comments here in Thunderdome, not about what was a mistake of not noticing who was the post’s author (although, what John said about that stands too).

  163. 663
    omnicrom

    StevoR I strongly suspect that Christ Clarke, like many of the rest of us, is sick and tired of your racism and especially the increasingly pathetic denials of that racism. Must we yet again do this tired and sorry song and dance AGAIN? Need we dredge up links to your posts? Explain how your racism is not welcome here? Once again roll our eyes when you shout to the high heavens how totally unracist you are after saying racist thing after racist thing?

    I’m with theophontes. Your presence here is a continuing miracle.

  164. 664
    John Morales

    StevoR, a commendable admission @661.

  165. 665
    Lofty

    (Groan)

    I didn’t realise it was your thread and “thought” it was PZ Meyers’ one.

    StevoR: I hate to say it, even as a fellow Adelaide resident, but you are one of the dullest commenters here. Do try to learn to read, learn to spell the blog owners name (ITS MYERS NOT MEYERS), and cut back on the incessant whining. I usually skip your posts as they add absolutely nothing of value to the conversation.
    I’m not even going into why you raise the hackles of many commenters here, if you can’t work it out, despite being told frequently, you’re probably a lost cause.

  166. 666
    PZ Myers

    NEW THREAD.

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