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Jan 08 2013

[Lounge #394]

babyorang

This is the lounge. You can discuss anything you want, but you will do it kindly. Happy Monkey!

Status: Heavily Moderated; Previous thread

695 comments

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  1. 1
    strange gods before me ॐ

    If necessary, try reverse psychology:

    Don’t do it.

    That’s for dealing with reactance.

    Doesn’t work for internal dialogue.

  2. 2
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    Speaking of happy monkeys, I got my grades back and I’m a little disappointed. TWO A-s? :(

  3. 3
    Inaji

    Eeee, cute!

    I’m just a tad pissy that PZ puts up all these juicy posts when I have a fractured wrist that is all manner of upsetty over this typing business. And it’s really difficult to type, too.*

    *No, I can’t do the type with one hand thing. I just can’t.

    Okay, done whining now.

  4. 4
    Maureen Brian

    Big hugs, Caine, and hope it is better soon. You weren’t beating up that jacksul person, were you?

  5. 5
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    Caine, clearly the ankle-brace idea was close but no cigar?

  6. 6
    mythbri

    PZ:

    Orangs are apes. Not monkeys. Don’t make me sic the Librarian on you.

    Ook.

  7. 7
    Inaji

    Maureen:

    You weren’t beating up that jacksul person, were you?

    Who, me? No. *looks all innocent*

    IJoe:

    clearly the ankle-brace idea was close but no cigar?

    It would seem so. Just a hairline fracture, but it hurts and it’s making me cranky. I really don’t need help in that department. :D I’m just hoping I don’t manage a repeat of my sproghood – back then, I managed to fracture both of my wrists inside a week. Made life right…interesting.

  8. 8
    Inaji

    Mythbri:

    Ook.

    Correct. However, the saying is Happy Monkey. A surly xian said so.

  9. 9
    Suido

    Happy new year everyone,
    Is it weird that I have more time for reading blogs during my normal working week than during holiday season? Spending the holidays 2,000 kms away from home with too-rarely seen family and friends will do that to a body.

    Speaking of happy apes, I got engaged last night. She seemed pretty happy too. XD

  10. 10
    mythbri

    @Caine #8

    Ah. One of those inside thingies. Carry on, then. ;)

    @Suido #9

    Congratulations, you happy apes!

  11. 11
    strange gods before me ॐ

    It is silly to group Cercopithecoidea and Platyrrhini together while excluding Hominoidea.

    Further, the last common ancestor of Hominoidea and Cercopithecoidea would be classes as a monkey by any casual observer.

    Apes are monkeys too.

  12. 12
    mythbri

    @strange gods before me #11

    Take it up with him. He has a very direct method of discussion.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/9f/Librarian_(Discworld).jpg/220px-Librarian_(Discworld).jpg

  13. 13
    AJ Milne

    Suido/#9:

    Congratulations. And Happy New Year.

    And that blog reading thing is kinda my pattern, too. But this is to some degree deliberate, and quite possibly even necessary, in my case.

    I kinda live online, during the workday. To some degree, I’d argue, also of necessity. Stands in for workplace socializing I otherwise don’t get. And any bigger/more involved online writing I’m likely to do after hours/outside work, but still in the week.

    So when I’m off, I’m also off the net. On a mountain. And/or with my kids (much of the time on mountains is with them). Leaving the work week behind is also leaving the net behind. Or mostly. I don’t make it so much an unbreakable rule as a general direction to seek. Balance thing. Recharging thing. And, again, I’m pretty sure a fairly necessary thing. Internet arguments have this bottomless quality… I think you have to set limits on your participation, just as a practical matter.

  14. 14
    strange gods before me ॐ

    Is the Librarian overly concerned with tradition, or more concerned with being right?

    If the latter, he’ll agree with me.

  15. 15
    carlie

    Caine – wrist breakage? Nooo!! :( Hope it heals quickly.

  16. 16
    Corey Wrenn

    A friend of mine is really into this Graham Hancock guy…I wasn’t able to find much on the internet about him and I have zero desire to read his theories on pseudohistory or transcendental drug experiences to find out for myself. Any thoughts on Hancock?

  17. 17
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Suido:
    Congratulations on your engagement!!!! Woo hoo!

  18. 18
    Inaji

    Corey Wrenn:

    I have zero desire to read his theories on pseudohistory or transcendental drug experiences to find out for myself.

    Jesus Fuckin’ Christ, do your own homework.

    Suido – Congratulations!

    SG, the librarian was once human and took to being an ape to the point that he actively resisted all attempts to be returned to a human state. He went to the extent to erase all mention of his name so that no one could do so. So, he takes being an ape seriously and considers being called a monkey an insult. He might be willing to talk it over with you at the Mended Drum, as long as you wouldn’t mind him trying to pull your head off.

    Carlie, thank you.

  19. 19
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    mildlymagnificent:
    What I find credulity-straining is how untragic it is. There have been a few “close calls” (so to speak), but as of the end of the first season – I haven’t watched the Christmas special yet – none of the mothers have died.
    Unrelated to my credulity, I am slightly miffed by the Monica Joan arc. Mostly because I don’t find senility funny, and it seems to be played for laughs.

    My bemusement at the Quantum Package is getting fretful – because Amazon claims that it has been delivered, but it has not. :/

  20. 20
    Inaji

    Esteleth, have you read A Midwife’s Tale: The Life of Martha Ballard, Based on Her Diary, 1785-1812 by Laurel Thatcher Ulrich?

    One of the notable things is that Martha rarely loses a mother. (Not that she loses none, that does happen.) She was extremely good at what she did. If you haven’t read it, I highly recommend it. One of the best books I ever read.

  21. 21
    Corey Wrenn

    There’s a feature on Rational Wiki, thanks anyway. Sorry, I thought this was a community lounge, I appear to be lost.

  22. 22
    Inaji

    Corey Wrenn:

    Sorry, I thought this was a community lounge

    It is. Why would that make you think we’re here to do your research for you? We aren’t. You didn’t show up wanting to discuss this person with us, you simply wanted all the hard stuff done for you. We aren’t Team Homework.

  23. 23
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    Sorry, I thought this was a community lounge, I appear to be lost.

    …and here I was thinking that the response you got was a bit harsher than deserved, based on the reactions other times someone’s effectively said “…has anyone read/watched this? Is it as bad as I think?”

  24. 24
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Caine

    I managed to fracture both of my wrists inside a week. Made life right…interesting.

    I fell headfirst out of my treehouse and fractured both wrists. Yeah. Not so fun.

    Azkyroth
    Drinking IPAs? I’m about to revoke your membership in the lack of lack of taste club : )

    Suido
    Congratulations!!!! Champagne?
    `-`-`-`-`-`

    And, drumroll please,

    I HAZ A NEW CAR!!!

  25. 25
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    Azkyroth
    Drinking IPAs? I’m about to revoke your membership in the lack of lack of taste club : )

    Under duress. >.>

    The Black IPA subset is less loathsome than most.

  26. 26
    cicely

    *hugs* for Caine. Hopefully it will mend speedily and well.
    -

    Any thoughts on Hancock?

    Oh, dear.
     
    Ohdearohdearohdear.
    Graham Hancock
    Gang, do you remember when I referenced Zecharia Sitchin? Hancock belongs in that general company.
     
    And that, Corey Wrenn, is not a compliment.
    -
    Portia: Congrats on New Car!
    -

  27. 27
    Ma Nonny

    As a fun story from today:
    -
    I was sitting in a doctor’s office, waiting to get called back. CNN was on the teevs. The story about AIG suing the government over shareholder unhappiness came up. A man next to me grunted “Socialists will stop at nothing!” as a form of disapproval about the whole affair. At first I was convinced he must have said “capitalists” … you know, since shareholders are creating a ridiculous suit about wanting more stock value for a failed company while blaming the government for helping it not fail.
    -
    Then, a story came on about Japanese airplanes leaking fuel. And once again I hear a very angry scoff: “Socialists!”
    -
    … ??? … what? Really? I mean, REALLY? A private company trying to make money and being irresponsible while doing so = socialism? This man was so severely confused about basic definitions it took everything I had not to say something. (I was successful, seeing as I was in a quiet place where it was highly uncouth to start a verbal spar.)
    -
    I know I now live in a conservative state, but last time I checked “stuff I just don’t like” is NOT THE SAME THING AS SOCIALISM! Bah.
    -
    In more positive news, I was told a few days ago by my brother-in-law-ish I am “irritatingly logical” after conceding my point (after ~30 min of debate) that some words can be derogatory even if you don’t intend for them to be. This actually made my day. Both because I won the debate and because I made another privileged dood more socially aware. I thank FTB and blogs I have found via FTB bloggers over the last year for that, by the way. Oh wait, you are supposed to be bullies! I always forget.

  28. 28
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Weak excuses are weak, Azkyroth! ;)

    On a related note, how many ginger ales are too many ginger ales?

    Thanks cicely!!! Woooo!! Joyride!

  29. 29
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Portia:
    Awesome! Have a pastry!

  30. 30
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Thanks Tony! Yum!

    (Now I just have to sort out a stupid charge they jacked up before the financing is finalized and calm my mounting anxiety about the way-higher insurance. Yep, gonna just wallow in the newwwwwww carrrrrrrr feelings for the moment).

  31. 31
    Corey Wrenn

    ?? I’m a professor of Sociology and new to the atheist community–not looking for anyone to do my “homework,” just looking for thoughts. Like I said, I have zero interest in reading a bunch of books by some nutjob (thanks to RationalWiki for saving me that waste of time), but I do have a genuine interest in knowing who he is and what everyone elses’ thoughts were. I like FtB because I can keep up with all that’s going on in the secular community without “doing the homework” of reading every single primary source that gets criticized…sorry if that makes me a lesser person.

    Thanks for the warm welcome. I’ll stick to reading the blogs from here on out.

  32. 32
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    To achieve this concordance the pyramids have been rotated and scaled to suit.

    *facepalm*

  33. 33
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    cicely:
    I just realized that in our post apocalyptic world, the Commune won’t have vehicles. We shall have to rely on the trusty steeds of old. You gonna walk?

  34. 34
    Inaji

    Thank you, Cicely. I’m going to have to step away from the keyboard soon, wrist is screeching at me.

    *Grumbles about stupid body falling to pieces*

    Portia:

    Not so fun.

    No, it isn’t. That did get me out of a fucktonne of written homework in Catholic school for 8 weeks, though. :D

  35. 35
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Caine, I couldn’t really feed myself, and mom occasionally gave big sister the job. She enjoyed holding a fork just out of my reach. Probably served me right.

  36. 36
    Inaji

    Tony:

    You gonna walk?

    Ever hear of carts? Wagons? Those can also be pulled by other critters, such as steer, oxen, even goats.

  37. 37
    cicely

    Tony:
    You’re forgetting the part about my tassty brainzzz, mentioned above.
    -

  38. 38
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    Yay Portia!

    If drinking IPAs is bad, what happens if you brew them?

  39. 39
    cicely

    Or…I could have a dog sled.
     
    Amusingly, when I first typed that out, it came out ‘god sled’. I almost left it.
    :) :) :)
    -

  40. 40
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Joe: You get a very judgmental look about your beer tastes :)

    cicely, I’ll volunteer to be the standing driver for your dog sled. That’s fun. I’ll get you where you need to go post-apocalypse, you just stay cozy. I’ll even avoid Horses.

  41. 41
    Inaji

    Cicely:

    when I first typed that out, it came out ‘god sled’.

    Now that I’d like to see. The question is, which god[s] and how many?

  42. 42
    Inaji

    Also, bicycles. No horses required.

    Me, I’ll be on a horse. Evil is drawn to evil and all that.

  43. 43
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Corey:
    Nowhere did Caine imply you are a lesser person.
    I do agree with her insofar as it appears you wanted us to do the ‘heavy lifting’.
    There’s no need to take the attitude that this space isn’t welcoming based on interaction with one commenter. Perhaps Caine was too harsh for your tastes…there are many others who hang out here though.

  44. 44
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Nope. Sorry. Its the feets or horses. C’mon cicely. You gots to pick.

  45. 45
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    I did not know Tv Tropes began bc of my Buffy. Totally tubular!

  46. 46
    strange gods before me ॐ

    …and here I was thinking that the response you got was a bit harsher than deserved, based on the reactions other times someone’s effectively said “…has anyone read/watched this? Is it as bad as I think?”

    *nods*

    ?? I’m a professor of Sociology and new to the atheist community–not looking for anyone to do my “homework,” just looking for thoughts. Like I said, I have zero interest in reading a bunch of books by some nutjob (thanks to RationalWiki for saving me that waste of time), but I do have a genuine interest in knowing who he is and what everyone elses’ thoughts were. I like FtB because I can keep up with all that’s going on in the secular community without “doing the homework” of reading every single primary source that gets criticized…sorry if that makes me a lesser person.

    *nods*

    You were not treated fairly here.

  47. 47
    cicely

    The question is, which god[s] and how many?

    Well, I figure teams of six; and we should keep a diverse…for want of any better term…stable. All those pantheons what are jest sittin’ around, ain’t doin’ nothin’ anymore? Break ‘em, brand ‘em, and harness ‘em up!
    -
    And I offered my opinion on Hancock—he ranks right down there with von Däniken. Again, not a compliment.
    -

  48. 48
    cicely

    Feets. Of dogs. Or gods.
    -

  49. 49
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    Well… speaking of brewing beer… I’m wanting to start a whole bunch of cool projects around the house, but I can’t decide which one to do first.

    The beer-brewing is probably the cheapest, since I have all the equipment already, and will also take the most time spread out over weeks and weeks. The downside is that I could just go buy some beer. :)

    The other two are sort of related. I want to repair and refinish my wife’s hope chest, that her grandfather made for her when she was little. It is all busted up from moving it, stained from I know not what, and has a weird bleached ring on top. So sanding and finishing, plus figuring out how to glue the wood back together. I also want to “refurbish” my amplifier, which is more expensive but if I fuck it up I have no one to answer to but me.

    I don’t know what to do first!

  50. 50
    cicely

    Or, Tony, if you insist that the feets must be human…I guess you’re just gonna have to carry me.
     
    Good thing you work out!
    :)
    -

  51. 51
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Joe: I vote for the chest, that chest sounds like a neat project. Though the concept of hope chests is sexist and ancient, I have always loved them. They are usually beautifully built and decorated because they are supposed to last a long time and have both pleasing form and function. I also love old stuff.

    And you can get some beer to sip while you work on that!

  52. 52
    abear

    I broke my leg 8 years ago. I blame the patriarchy.

  53. 53
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    Portia

    The chest and amp are sort of overlapping projects so probably the beer-brewing is out until I have money freed up for it… since they are both sort of roughly “cabinetry” work. Plus, I just realized that if I do a project for my wife FIRST, she’ll be way more on board for my stuff LATER. :)

  54. 54
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    A hope chest, dowry chest, cedar chest, or glory box is a chest used to collect items such as clothing and household linen, by unmarried young women in anticipation of married life.

    Eww.

    while “glory box” is used by women in Australia.

    Of course, if mishandled they might develop “glory holes…”

  55. 55
    Inaji

    Corey:

    I do have a genuine interest in knowing who he is and what everyone elses’ thoughts were.

    Perhaps you should have said that the first time around, rather than:

    I have zero desire to read his theories on pseudohistory or transcendental drug experiences to find out for myself.

    It’s helpful to say you’re interested in discussing X, especially as we have had numerous (way too many to count) people showing up who do expect the people here to do all the heavy lifting and research for a discussion or argument they are having elsewhere. I’m sure you can see how that’s on the rude side.

  56. 56
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    … plus is gives everyone a few weeks to talk me into/out of certain color combinations for my amp.

  57. 57
    Inaji

    Cicely:

    Break ‘em, brand ‘em, and harness ‘em up!

    Oooh, mix ‘n’ match!

    Azkyroth:

    Eww.

    There’s nothing “eww” about it. It was (and still is) a way to help out a new couple in establishing a household. Shit’s expensive, ya know. I have one of my great-grandmother’s cedar chests, it’s over a hundred years old now. When I moved out of the family house at 17, it was stuffed full of household goods – bed linens, towels, table linens, dishes, etc.

  58. 58
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Cicely:
    +1 for that most excellent retort! I didn’t see that coming. Neigh, I did not.

  59. 59
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Is that trolling @52?

  60. 60
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    It seems like there’s quite a bit “eww” about the idea that you’re supposed to spend your time on filling it with stuff for when you’re married, because of course that’s the one worthy goal for a young woman.

  61. 61
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    …okay, why do I keep finding quinoa recipes that want it served COLD? *whimpers*

  62. 62
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    It seems like there’s quite a bit “eww” about the idea that you’re supposed to spend your time on filling it with stuff for when you’re married, because of course that’s the one worthy goal for a young woman.,

    Seconded. What’s worse is I had one growing up. Though it was more “here are family heirlooms that are yours now, and we’ll tuck them away for when you have your own home” rather than an expectation that we’d only have a home of our own when we had a husband.

  63. 63
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    *whispers* Be a rebel…eat it hot : )

  64. 64
    Inaji

    Azkyroth:

    It seems like there’s quite a bit “eww” about the idea that you’re supposed to spend your time on filling it with stuff for when you’re married, because of course that’s the one worthy goal for a young woman.

    That was reality for the majority of women for a long time. Cedar chests haven’t been considered the exclusive domain of the want to marry/about to marry/newly married category for a long time now. Many people use them for young women getting out on their own for the first time. They are damn nice to have, stuffed or not. Stuffed is a serious plus, though.

  65. 65
    Ing

    Continued from last thread

    Anyway Dexter is a vampire show in disguise

  66. 66
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    I think that Azkyroth is just picking up on the gendered-ness of the idea. I see what you mean Caine, though. They are really practical. It’s just the idea that household goods are another one of those things that are Domain of Teh Woman™. Yes, practical adjustments are a good idea to accommodate the added burden on women. Even better is getting rid of the underlying idea that puts the burden there.

  67. 67
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    *whispers* Be a rebel…eat it hot : )

    It has nothing to do with rebellion; quinoa, from what I remember of the one time I tried to make a recipe with it, is well into the texture range where I can’t not gag eating it cold. (Or throw up, if I persist).

  68. 68
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Azkyroth:
    Ooooh quinoa! Love it. I don’t have an actual recipe, but mixing it with pearl couscous, wild rice, and tabouleh makes a great side dish. Heck, put some black beans on top and either grilled salmon or jerk chicken and it’s on!

  69. 69
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Or maybe quinoa + risotto?

  70. 70
    Pteryxx

    random: anyone want a free, neat little PC sandbox game?

    10. This Precious Land (Ishisoft) [Windows, free]

    Ishisoft’s This Precious Land, is a truly unique beast, as it is one of those precious few games that despite being created under the limitations of a Ludum Dare competition managed to make it into one of our top ten lists. Most probably due to it being incredibly addictive and downright beautiful (if you love your games pixelated, that is). This Precious Land, essentially a sandbox construction toy, was apparently partially inspired by games like Triple Town and Settlers. Though it can be slightly confusing in the beginning, as you come to terms with the game’s rules, it will become a wonderful and most creative experience.

    Review from here: http://indiegames.com/2013/01/top_10_indie_strategy_games_of.html

    Game itself is here: http://ishisoft.com/archives/884

  71. 71
    Tigger_the_Wing, Back home =^_^=

    Caine, so sorry about your wrist. I hope it heals soonest.

    Tony:

    Nope. Sorry. Its the feets or horses. C’mon cicely. You gots to pick.

    If we cannot have solar-powered electric bikes/trikes I’m not going to be part of the commune, so there.

    *Sits on the rocking chair on the porch with arms folded and sulks*

    *Has lightbulb moment*

    Unless I can have a sedan chair carried by the gorgeous men of the Horde… =^_^=

    I’ll let you take turns, so you all get a chance!

  72. 72
    Suido

    @Everyone:

    Thank you, thank you.

    @Caine: Commiserations on the wrist. I was fortunate to never have broken one, but as an ex gymnast I understand the debilitating nature of any wrist injury.

    @Portia: When boxing day celebrations finish in the wee hours at a bar serving cheap and deceptively potent mixtures of ginger beer and jaegermeister, my recent experience would say 1 is too much and 10 not enough. Also, congrats on the new car. Drive safe!

    @Improbable Joe: 3D printing shall be my next home project, getting into it while it’s still nascent. You could even print small custom parts to help with the refurbishment of chest and amp..? I’m also keen on brewing, but I’m saving that for when I stop changing rental house every year.

  73. 73
    Alethea Kuiper-Belt

    Oh Portia, no. I’m sorry, but just no. IPAs are the BEST beers. For Americans, the Sierra Nevada Torpedo is good. My bloke brews one very similar, that he calls the Otway (submariner connection). A couple of months ago I was in a brewpub in Manly and had a taster set of 4 different IPAs. Heaven!

    IPA 5EVAH!!

  74. 74
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Caine:
    I hope Vasco is doing better. How is Pearl?

    ****
    Tigger:

    You won’t be going anywhere. You didn’t hear. Whosoever claims the rocking chair is on security detail. You cannot leave the porch. You shall have your trusty musket and a deck of UNO cards to keep you company.

  75. 75
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    … and my wife informs me that her grandfather just gave her the chest, it was actually made in the 1860s. No pressure though.

  76. 76
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    IPAs for the most part are an unfortunate byproduct of the same impulse that produces seven digit scoville rating chili sauce and 1/2+ lb hamburgers – take a distinctive aspect of food and MORE MORE MORE it and DAMN the overall flavor. I call it “munchkin cuisine.”

  77. 77
    Tigger_the_Wing, Back home =^_^=

    Oh, Suido, congratulations! =^_^= May you both be happy for the rest of your long, long lives!

    Tony, I don’t need a musket. I’ve got The Look.

    UNO cards?! I haven’t seen a deck in… *cough, cough*

    Make it Pokémon, and I’ll not object.

  78. 78
    Alethea Kuiper-Belt

    Azkyroth, that’s true of bad IPAs. Like chilli and heat, there is more to an IPA than simple bitterness.

  79. 79
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    …also, I seem to have strained my left pectoral muscle or an attached tendon moving furniture back into place after the maintenance guys were done replacing bits of carpet. This is unpleasant, since despite having all the signifiers of a muscle ache it’s still technically a “chest pain” and thus kind of unnerving. >.>

  80. 80
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Whew, good luck Joe! I bet that’s gonna be a gorgeous piece when you’re done.

    Alethea
    You don’t have to apologize to me. It’s you with the heretical taste!

    I’m off to bed. Finally. Can’t wait to see what silliness and/or wisdom will await when I wake up.

  81. 81
    Inaji

    Tony:

    How is Pearl?

    She’s doing just fine. Running amok, playing, fighting, munching treats. All in day. :D

    Vasco is doing well, even though he’s fighting the meds tooth and nail. It is really difficult to single-handedly administer eye drops to a struggling rat, especially with one hand out of use.

  82. 82
    Inaji

    G’night all, have to head into town tomorrow.

  83. 83
    Tigger_the_Wing, Back home =^_^=

    Goodnight, Caine. Would Vasco be easier to treat if he were trying to eat a favourite snack? You could tether the snack so he couldn’t run off with it.

  84. 84
    Hekuni Cat, MQG

    Caine:

    Vasco is doing well, even though he’s fighting the meds tooth and nail. It is really difficult to single-handedly administer eye drops to a struggling rat, especially with one hand out of use.

    I’m glad to hear Vasco is doing well. I’m also very impressed that you manage to administer his eye drops at all, let alone with a struggling rat and a broken wrist. (I had to put eye drops in my mother’s eyes after eye surgery. She has such an overwhelming urge to blink that even with her earnest cooperation and understanding, it went wrong about half the time.) I hope your wrist pains you as little as possible and heals swiftly. *hugs*

  85. 85
    Hekuni Cat, MQG

    athyco – Good news!

    Obvorbis – I ♥ Obvorbis. And *hugs* too.

    Suido – Congratulations!

    Portia – Congrats on your new car!

  86. 86
    chigau (違う)

    wow
    I missed a lot.
    major hugs for Ogvorbis.

  87. 87
    chigau (違う)

    and
    were those actual Cerberus sitings?

  88. 88
    mildlymagnificent

    suido. Congratulations!
    portia Comgratulations!

    Transport for commune? These aren’t much good for adults, but dandy for kids or for things too awkward to lug around.
    http://aso.gov.au/titles/newsreels/queensland-kiddies-outings/clip1/

    We will have goats and chooks and rabbits won’t we? Won’t we?

    esteleth –
    Wasn’t the woman who died from eclampsia in that series? I suppose they weren’t all that clear about patients who were selected out of the home birth group because of high risk. They did emphasise that people were able to get a doctor and an ambulance when needed because they now had the NHS on tap.

  89. 89
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Good morning
    So, back on the medication against the neck-pain. Guess I stopped taking it too soon.

    Caine
    I’m sorry about the wrist. Hope they get better soon.

    Ogvorbis
    I’m very glad to hear about your breakthrough

    apes and monkeys
    To me that’s a classical Sapir-Whorf. Other languages, including German, don’t differenciate that much between the two. In German they’re all “Affen” and apes are “Menschenaffen” (human apes). So we don’t perceive them as fundamentally different. And Aron Ra will be quick to tell you that, of course, apes are monkeys.

    So much for now.
    Promised #1 to g out for breakfast before she has an appointment with the pediatrician. Think that will do both of us good.

  90. 90
    opposablethumbs

    Conga rats to Portia, and conga rats-confetti-champagne to Suido!

  91. 91
    rq

    Good morning!
    A good beer is a good beer, but a dark beer is usually a better beer. ;) When it’s high summer and freakin’ hot and I’ve been raking hay for a couple of hours, I don’t really care anymore what I’m drinking.

    Portia
    *confetti! ginger ale! new key-fob!* Congrats on the new car! :) I hope it’s a joy to drive.

    Improbable Joe re: guns and commune
    Noted. :)

    Tigger_the_Wing
    I’ll put you down for security detail.

    Tony
    Besides fitness training, I will also have you down as General Carrier of Venerable Women. Is that a sexist occupation for you to have…? ;)

    re: transport in the Commune
    Currently we have a team of Scandinavians (I believe – Minnie the Finn and birgerjohansson) creating all kinds of animal hybrids for Commune needs – one of the main large-animal, labour-type beasts will be the goatrich (goat/ostrich). Photo pending.
    Horses and dogsleds also available, depending on terrain and weather patterns (we still don’t have a set location, by the way). Or, goat cart.

    Three cheers for all happy apes for whatever reason, and sympathy and commiseration for those still recovering from injury (especially if that injury inhibits their usual troll-chomping via internet :( ).

  92. 92
    strange gods before me ॐ

    were those actual Cerberus sitings?

    99.999% sure.

  93. 93
    rq

    Also, re: Graham Hancock – thanks for the intro to another nut to be read for pure unbelievable entertainment, for the time I actually have a stomach for it. Heh. Wikpedia seems quite enough for now!

  94. 94
    rq

    opposablethumbs
    Call me slow, but I finally understood the meaning/origin of your phrase ‘conga rats’. /slow morning

  95. 95
    John Morales

    Tony (last thread):

    Doh! Brain fart.

    Your brain noticed blue* text is quite doable.

    * Well, whatever the reader’s browser uses to display virgin links.

    Corey Wrenn, this being Pharyngula and all, your familiar and somewhat elliptical approach (you’re not familiar to us) resulted in a brusque response; don’t be too disheartened yet!

    (Note both this and Thunderdome are open threads)

  96. 96
    strange gods before me ॐ

    Inspired by Giliell, I check the sidebar of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkey for Deutsch and it isn’t there. I check https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affen for English and find it corresponds to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simian

  97. 97
    Inaji

    Tigger:

    Would Vasco be easier to treat if he were trying to eat a favourite snack? You could tether the snack so he couldn’t run off with it.

    :laughs: No, that wouldn’t work with a rat. They have no problem giving up a treat and simply plan to get it later. You just have to get ahold of them and get it over with as quickly as possible. Vasco doesn’t fight the eye drops nearly as much as he does the oral baytril (and I don’t blame him – I haven’t tasted it, but going by the smell, it’s bad. Our rat vet has tasted it and confirmed it’s hideous.) His doctor did tell us the drops are more important at the moment, so the oral meds can be dropped if it becomes too much of a fight.

    Hekuni Cat:

    I’m glad to hear Vasco is doing well. I’m also very impressed that you manage to administer his eye drops at all, let alone with a struggling rat and a broken wrist. (I had to put eye drops in my mother’s eyes after eye surgery. She has such an overwhelming urge to blink that even with her earnest cooperation and understanding, it went wrong about half the time.) I hope your wrist pains you as little as possible and heals swiftly. *hugs*

    Yes, that reflex isn’t helpful! I’m awful about eye drops myself, so I sympathize with him. As for the wrist, I’m managing. Thank you. *hugs back*

    :Goes back to waiting for pain meds to kick in so I can haz sleep:

  98. 98
    chigau (違う)

    rq
    conga rats and much, much more
    http://www.sandraboynton.com/sboynton/Introduction.html

  99. 99
    Inaji

    Giliell:

    So, back on the medication against the neck-pain. Guess I stopped taking it too soon.

    Yikes. A get well soon to you. Are you wearing your dragon?

  100. 100
    chigau (違う)

    A long time ago, I was involved in helping to administer antibiotic eye-drops to a 5-year-old human Child.
    Child was really brave and stoic but still needed assistance on holding still.
    (seriously, this kid was awesome)
    At one point, the Parental Unit decided to do a “Watch Me Do This, It’s Not So Bad”…
    nuh-uh
    those eye-drops HURT!!!!
    Child was amused and I think it helped Child get through the course of antibiotics.

  101. 101
    Tigger_the_Wing, Back home =^_^=

    Security, eh? Do I get a blanket?

    How did I miss Portia’s new car? Congratulations! Reliable transport is so important, don’t you think?

    I’m somewhat afraid that wanting men to carry me around is rather sexist of me. Good job I’ll be confined to the porch then, I suppose. It’s not as if my life will change very much from what it’s been for most of the last mumblety-something months, then. =^_^= I’m becoming something of a professional porch-sitter, although rarely in the rocking-chair since a rather over-enthusiastic visiting teenager broke it. Mostly lying down on the sofa/couch actually.

    Can Katie accompany me? She’s very good at the meeting-and-greeting part of Porch Security Duty, if I tell her that growling isn’t appropriate. Plus she’ll wake me up if I doze off! =^_^=

    Hmmm… what is the difference between a porch and a verandah, if any?

  102. 102
    Tigger_the_Wing, Back home =^_^=

    Caine, I’ve been fortunate then, in not having to administer eye-drops to any of our rats in the past (only have the one pet now; Katie, the collie x Kelpie). And I never had to give medicine of any kind to any animal with one hand out of action. My admiration for you grows apace!

    Oh dear, Giliell , that doesn’t sound good! Neck pain is so restrictive. I’m really lucky that mine is now at the point that, after a year of physio, I no longer need to wear the soft collar when I’m out, nearly five years after I first started needing it! I hope yours gets better much, much sooner!

  103. 103
    John Morales

    Tigger, basically the same thing, but verandah connotes a biggish well-covered space (at least equivalent to a room), while porch connotes a roof extension that provides some cover along a wall.

  104. 104
    John Morales

    I’ve had both, and a pain in the neck is worse than a pain in the bum.

  105. 105
    rq

    Tigger
    Any assistance in the security department you may need (esp. Meet-n-Greet) is welcome. ;) Just remember, the lunganhas are on your side! (lungfish/piranha cross for surprise amphibious protection, or something… Have to ask birgerjohansson about the specifics of that.)

    I was always under the impression that porch and verandah are culturally different versions of the same thing – that is, a porch is the North American version, rather smallish on the front of the house, with or without roof covering; a verandah is the Australian version, and usually encircles the entire building. :) (I did not use a dictionary to define the above. ;) )

  106. 106
    John Morales

    Weather forecast for Oz.

    (‘Tis the season to be sweltering)

  107. 107
    Tigger_the_Wing, Back home =^_^=

    Thank you, rq, very informative! Where I come from, a ‘porch’ is something very small, that shelters people from the rain (often barely!); a small canopy above outside doors. ‘Posh’ people add walls and a door, creating an outside room for storing prams, bikes and boots; then lock it, leaving visitors to suffer in the weather. :P

    In films from the US, the porch seems to be a cross betwen a verandah and a balcony.

    What we have here is an area under the front of the roof almost the width of the house. Because we’re on a hill, the single storey house/bungalow is elevated above street level so when I’m sitting outside it feels like a balcony.

  108. 108
    Amblebury

    Hello all, mostly lurking nowadays, de-lurking for Ogvorbis. If I could think of a word that conveyed goodwill and happiness for another, with an element of hope for the future gained from seeing that other’s hard-won conquest, that’d be the word I’d use.

    Caine, you weren’t punching the screen, were you? ;)

  109. 109
    Maureen Brian

    mildlymagnificent and esteleth,

    I understood the Call the Midwife story about the woman who died of eclampsia as perfectly credible but also reinforcing the NHS line about get yourself plugged in to the free, locally available and generally good ante-natal care service as soon as you can. It’s a line they still push!

    She and hubby, remember, had been busy moving house, were a bit middle class and she a little nervous of the bluntness of the locals. She turned up at the clinic but her early symptoms were apparently making her panicky and she left before one of the midwives could give her a basic check. All this hinted at rather than laid on with a trowel but definitely there in the detail.

    I’ll see if I can find maternal mortality figures for that period but I’ll do that on the big screen computer!

  110. 110
    birgerjohansson

    “At one point, the Parental Unit decided to do a “Watch Me Do This, It’s Not So Bad”…
    nuh-uh”

    A Homer Simpson moment?
    “Look, Bart, these psychoactive pills are not harmful at all” (swallows whole content of jar) “Ooogleboogleaaaargh!”

    rq
    If there is a big lawn around the house, I suggest voles with venom glands connected to the teeth. This way, they can supplement their low-energy grass diet with meat. A kind of rodent grass pirhanas.

  111. 111
    Maureen Brian

    mildlymagnificent and esteleth, again,

    I think this is what we needed – a bit wordy and I can’t persuade the tables to load – but has some good information in it. Note, in particular, which way the correlation between social class and maternal mortality goes!

    http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/72/1/241s.full

  112. 112
    WMDKitty -- Survivor

    SGBM

    I let my mouth get ahead of me. I’m sorry. I’ll just go… elsewhere… for a while, now.

  113. 113
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    HI there, back from breakfast and pediatrician.
    I must have a “sympathetic ear” tatoo in invisible ink somewhere cause during breakfast a young guy next to us poured out his heart to me. Poor sod is unemployed, recently moved here because he hopes that his chances are better in the city and because he can’t get a driving license due to epilsepsy and doesn’t know anybody here.
    Wait, do I have to hand back my professional victim feminazis card because I simply talked to him and everything was fine?


    In other terms, I’m really glad I have an appointment with my therapist on Friday. Because right now everthing is bad. I hardly derive pleasure from anything, even the things I know would make me happy normally and while every single slightly not good thing hits me like a ton of bricks I simply don’t even notice anything that goes well or works out.
    Shit.

    Caine

    Yikes. A get well soon to you. Are you wearing your dragon?

    Thanks, you, too. I don’t have a dragon. Yes, I know, I invented them, but the first one was a christmas present and the one I made to get the pictures for the tutorial went straight to my sister…

    Tigger
    Thanks. I stupidly tore a muscle two weeks ago and as a result of course all the other muscles in that area became really tense, trying to protect the hurt one.

    Portia
    Congarats on the car.

    Tony
    Forgot to mention: I’m glad Jim contacted you again. You’re a good person being there for him when probably all his usual support structure is part of the problem.

  114. 114
    carlie

    On hope chests – in an opposite kind of twist, I got one from my extended family as a wedding present. They knew a carpenter who handmade them. It hasn’t always been easy to find a place to put it, but it’s beautiful. I do think it’s a great idea to start storing things for when someone starts their own home, just not tying it to being married. And also adding things like dishes and tools and stuff, not just linens.

    Corey – if you’re still reading, it did come off a little snotty. It read to me like you were asking for basic information on the person and his hypotheses, not so much people’s reactions to them, and given that was the first thing you said in the lounge, well, imagine the same situation at a cocktail party. You march up to a group of people and without any introduction say exactly what you wrote – there’s a guy, you refuse to read about him, but tell you all about him… it doesn’t come off that well.

  115. 115
    rq

    Giliell
    *hugs* and I hope the pain passes soon. :( And a ray of sunshine for the future.

    +++

    re: hope chests
    Out of interest, how large is a hope chest supposed to be, or does it vary? The Latvian version (which should be filled with all kinds of knitted, woven, embroidered things like towels, woollen socks and linen shirts, esp. for the Husband) is quite large… Also, what should go into it varies according to status in society (that is, the landowner’s daughter should have more of everything than the servant’s daughter, or the milkmaid’s daughter, and then there’s the standard no-determinate-status list, too). Does that go for hope chests as well?

    And yeah – glory chest sounds a bit off, especially after Azkyroth‘s suggestive comment on the topic… ;)

  116. 116
    rq

    birgerjohansson
    If you can make a version that can guard agricultural crops from underground (and surface) pests, that would be the best.

  117. 117
    opposablethumbs

    your phrase ‘conga rats’.

    Not mine personally – I only wish it were! – I adopted it from here, I think, but I can’t remember who started it. Maybe Caine?

    I think I might have been the one to add “ululations” (as in a nice long line of rats dancing the conga and uttering ululations, thus giving us conga rats ululations) but I’m not even sure of that! (yes, my memory is that bad sometimes)

    I’m feeling pleased about passing on the link to that lovely kids’ evolution book to someone I know who is a primary school headteacher. I would love for lots of kids to enjoy that book!

  118. 118
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    re: hope chests
    I didn’t get so much of a chest but my grandma used to stock up useful things for a first household when she found them on offer somewhere, for which I was really grateful when I moved out, because it must have been several hundred bucks worth of basic kitchen stuff, teatowels, plastic containers, cooking pots and such.

    re: conga rats
    I knew that expression way before I ever set foot on Pharyngula. I learned it in a forum about raising virtual dragons. Yes, I still do that, why are you asking?

    rq
    Thanks, I’ll let the sunshine warm my neck.

    +++
    Oh, and protip: If you talk to a 5yo about her “woof-woof”, she’ll think you’re an idiot and I would have a hard time arguing why she’s wrong.

  119. 119
    rq

    Giliell
    How does one go about raising virtual dragons? /curious
    And today I also received confirmation that children are the weirdest, strangest little people ever.

    opposablethumbs
    I like the ululating conga rats. :) A nice festive image!

  120. 120
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Mildlymagnificent,
    Yes, you’re right. I’d forgotten about her, and yeah, the mortality stats probably weren’t that bad.

    *grumble* Amazon continues to insist that my Quantum Duck was delivered, and it totally has not. I shall make inquiries amongst my neighbors, and if that fails complain.

    *more grumbles* It is 7 am, I have been at work for over an hour, and my best case scenario features leaving work around 7:30 this evening.

  121. 121
    ImaginesABeach

    Late to the hope chest discussion, but I am accumulating household things for GirlChild and BoyChild for when they move out – dishes, pots and pans, utensils, basic tools, etc. If I buy something for one, I also buy it for the other, so they have the same stuff. Plus, whenever there is a recipe that is liked, I print it up and laminate it and tuck it away for the Childs. Also, I buy them one Christmas tree ornament each year that they can take when they move out. I don’t think of it as a hope chest (and there isn’t actually a chest), although I do “hope” they will move out when they are adults.

  122. 122
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    rq
    Well, you need to steal the eggs and then you need to expose them to the big bad internet and then they grow up and you can breed them and stuff.
    A nice collection that doesn’t accumulate dust on your shelves. There’s a whole range of virtual pets and stuff out on the internet :)
    I like dragons

    Imagines a Beach
    That’s about what grandma did, minus the recipes.

  123. 123
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    I did not have a “hope chest” as such – but when I was 17 (i.e. a senior in high school) I was told to pick out a china and flatware pattern (everyday, not fancy). When I moved out of student housing and into an apartment of my own a few years later, I was presented with sets of these. Also, cookpots, kitchen utensils, etc. This, coupled with the comforter-blanket-sheets-pillows set I got when I started undergraduate, enabled me to a more comfortable start out of the gate.

  124. 124
    birgerjohansson

    A recent TV documentary showed that people who feel they are helpless are more prone to see images in “white noise” TV images.
    .
    This could be very relevant for politics. For instance, most voters of the xenophobe party (SD) in Sweden have rather low education, which would make them quite vulnerable especially during a recession.
    Those who feel they cannot affect their circumstances will be more prone to see signs of conspiracies, a take-over of immigrants or some other out-group.

    Tea Party? Middle age white men?
    And let’s not forget that even Black Moslems apparently are into the whole “Jews did it” thing (unless that group has changed recently).

  125. 125
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Also, am I misremembering, or were you unable to remember her name? And it seems now you can?

    Yes. I remember her name, her family, all of it.

    I think my dad’s about to deliver some bad news on the (return of) cancer. :/

    Oh. Hugs, chocolate, not-scotch, virtual support.

    What is wrong with society that the people incapable of guilt and regret at harming others always seem to come out on top?

    Psychopaths are not only in business.

    Every single bit of abuse, from being locked up to being raped for 6 years, was my fault.

    Caine, super hugs.

    I figured that since we had willingly joined cub scouts, whatever happened was my fault. No point in telling anyone because (a) no one would believe that this upstanding member of the community could do such a thing, (b) I didn’t want people thinking I was a girl and (c) I had signed up for scouts so I asked for it and it was my fault.

    Women have been considered to be property, sub-human property, for a very long time. The same applies to children. Deep rooted attitudes tend to dismiss what people do with their own property.

    As I remembered what happened, one thing still stands out. When he told us, with his wife standing by, that “There are two kinds of people in the world. Men and girls. Girls exist to give men pleasure and men can take it whenever they want. Some of you girls may grow up to be men — that’s what I’m here for. Grow up, be men, and enjoy the life God has given.” (awkwardly paraphrased)

    If someone buys one of our books through Amazon, they email us with the buyer’s address, I post it to the buyer, then tell Amazon I’ve done so. Two separate operations – so if the second gets left undone for a while, the book can arrive before Amazon even know it’s been posted.

    Same for me. When I sell a book, I usually post it as shipped the night before I actually ship it. Occasionally, I have forgotten to post it as shipped.

    Weather forecast for Oz.

    (‘Tis the season to be sweltering)

    You know it is hot when you look at the temperature and think, oh, what a nice cool day, and then realize it is Celsius, not Fahrenheit.

    ========

    In a few minutes, I’ll tell you about my night. It was odd.

  126. 126
    WMDKitty -- Survivor

    Ugh. Why can’t certain people just take an apology and STFU? Why do some people have to keep beating a dead horse? I already conceded the point, and I’m being called a liar and a homophobe just because I asked a question.

    What gives?

    Can someone explain this phenomenon, whereby asking an question suddenly deserves an all-out attack? I was genuinely unaware of something, and feel like I was unjustly attacked for trying to figure it out. (And further attacked [called a liar] for noting that I’m not seeing what this person is complaining about, and asking how it’s offensive).

    Well pardon me for trying to figure shit out! I thought that’s why we were all here, not to attack people for being curious!

  127. 127
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Last night, I put off going to sleep for as long as I could. I was scared of what dreams might show up. I did dream (one of the most complete and realistic dreams I’ve ever had) but it was, in a way, good.

    TRIGGER WARNING

    I dreamt of my abuse. Anal and oral rape. The photography. Forced into sex with other cub scouts. It was bad. My abuser took me by the hand and walked me over to the little girl (and I know who she is now and I cannot express how relieved I am by that). She smiled at me. I took her hand and the two of us walked away. And the dream ended. I woke up in a cold sweat. But I think (crosses fingers, knocks on wood, throws salt over my shoulder, walks around a ladder, jumps over the black cat) I have won.

    Is won the right word? I feel like the scattered pieces of me have coalesced back into me. The only think I have defeated (hopefully, anyway) is the part of me that blamed me for something that I had no choice about doing. I feel better, right now (even with a minor back ache and my knee acting up) than I have felt in my entire adult life.

    Thank you one and all for prodding me towards the obvious. I don’t know where I would be without you.

  128. 128
    rq

    As I remembered what happened, one thing still stands out. When he told us, with his wife standing by, that “There are two kinds of people in the world. Men and girls. Girls exist to give men pleasure and men can take it whenever they want. Some of you girls may grow up to be men — that’s what I’m here for. Grow up, be men, and enjoy the life God has given.” (awkwardly paraphrased)

    This. My heart hurts for all the boys who heard that and believed, and those who still believe. :(

  129. 129
    Pteryxx

    Welcome back, Ogvorbis-with-no-fail-names. You definitely deserve to call this a win – you struggled and fought for it, and I’m proud for you.

  130. 130
    strange gods before me ॐ

    WMDKitty,

    Ugh. Why can’t certain people just take an apology and STFU? Why do some people have to keep beating a dead horse? I already conceded the point, and I’m being called a liar and a homophobe just because I asked a question.

    Don’t bring this stuff into the Lounge. You have every opportunity to talk about it in Thunderdome.

  131. 131
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    My heart hurts for all the boys who heard that and believed, and those who still believe. :(

    I suspect those at AVfM would agree wholeheartedly.

    You definitely deserve to call this a win – you struggled and fought for it, and I’m proud for you.

    I’m a little scared. This has been a background part of my life for over thirty years and a major part of my life for the past year and a half. What happens now?

  132. 132
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    I mean that AVfM would agree with the words of my abuser, not what you wrote. Sorry.

  133. 133
    rq

    Yes, Ogvorbis for the win.
    This is exciting. And I think that’s a good dream.

  134. 134
    rq

    As for what now? Well. The world is your playground! ;)

  135. 135
    rq

    Oops, this is me reading the feminism thread when I should be getting dinner started. #badhousewives ;)

  136. 136
    x

    Askyroth referenced Black IPA way back up there; I was immediately dismissive, as the two times I’ve ever tried a Black IPA I was disappointed – they tasted of badly homebrewed stouts. No body, little taste, flat affect even if carbonated.

    But: I want Black IPA to be good. Maybe I had gotten my hopes up. Maybe the liquor store had mistreated its beers. Maybe those two brands of Black IPA are just no good. So I hereby resolve to re-enter the Black IPA evaluation business. For the next Family Pizza Night (which is Saturday this week, not Friday, and is Potluck non-pizza, not pizza*).

    It just occurred to me that one way to make a “Black” IPA is just do an IPA recipe but use only dark malt – which would be somewhat extreme, but might explain the flavor profile I experience. Which would mean that my hopes are likely to be dashed again. Oh well, BIL always seems to have a bunch of Belgian IPA around, which I find OK, if a little too strong, in both the Belgian yeast taste and the low water concentration.

    *I’m thinking of taking a veggie black bean dish smoked up with roasted red peppers and chipotles en adobo

  137. 137
    x

    Not to belittle Ogvorbis’s victory with my jejune prattling. I can only imagine what your life must have been like, which mean I can’t even imagine.

  138. 138
    Maureen Brian

    Hugs and several rounds of applause, Ogvorbis. You deserve lots of praise for pushing on through this and resolving it.

  139. 139
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Ogvorbis
    I hope that this dream means you have won.
    I can vaguely relate to a re-occuring nightmare I had: It was about Mr. (really) having an evil twin and the dreams would always start out in that realm between dream and reality, they would usually start with me waking up in my bed hearing the evil twin (of whom I first thought he was Mr.) come in and it would go bad from thereon and when I woke up I would still be in the bad place until I really managed to tell him one night: This is not real. I’m not awake, this is a dream and I’m going to wake up now. Just like they do it in books. And it worked. He vanished that night and never came back.
    Now I know that unlike your nightmares mine weren’t actually based on abuse, but the thing is: dreams are not the event itself. Dreams can change. You changed your dream and I hope it continues to work.

  140. 140
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    You deserve lots of praise for pushing on through this and resolving it.

    I don’t fool myself thinking that it is resolved but I think I am on the right track.

    You changed your dream and I hope it continues to work.

    Oh, I hope so, too.

  141. 141
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    Ogvorbis, SHIT YEAH! This is certainly a victory for you, so enjoy the hell out of it.

    Even if this isn’t the last of the shit you’re going to have to deal with, hold onto the knowledge that you CAN feel good, and you absolutely deserve to feel good.

  142. 142
    Pteryxx

    Dear Ogvorbis:

    I’m a little scared. This has been a background part of my life for over thirty years and a major part of my life for the past year and a half. What happens now?

    Whatever you want. *offers hugs*

    This has been addressed, actually… not just abuse survivors, but people who’ve overcome chronic diseases or changed some other long-term disadvantage often feel uneasy about fumbling around in this new world and new self. (I’m working on that a bit now, since I never learned how to be an artist when it *wasn’t* a desperate means of survival.) There’s places in Stephen King’s ‘On Writing’ where he mentions feeling scared of life without constant drinking, and again when he comes back to writing after surviving a near-fatal vehicle accident… he said it was like coming back to a mothballed vacation house, where everything’s strange and dusty but after poking around a bit and turning on the lights, it soon became home again.

    Libby Anne talks about it some too, and so does Natalie Reed, in different contexts of course. Besides, whoever you turn out to be from now on, you’ve already shown an excellent core; and we the Horde will be here to listen.

  143. 143
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Joe & Pterryx:

    Thanks.

    One other thing I want to point out. All those who think that Pharyngulites are a shark tank of evil? Bullshit.

    Looking back, I think that the point at which my memories woke up (and started this long trail I’m on) was that 5,000 comments over three days about Rebecca Watson. And it came out because I used it to make a point to some asshole MRA that not only adult women were raped. And I just typed it and then realized what I had typed and it started to come back. Without that thread, who knows? I might still be feeling depressed for no reason. Well, there are the panic attacks from 9/11 but at least I know where that shit is coming from.

  144. 144
    Pteryxx

    unrelated but apropos, check out DarkSyde’s happy rave about his medical reprieve:

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/zingularity/2013/01/09/mysterious-chest-pain-update/

  145. 145
    opposablethumbs

    Ogvorbis, this sounds like it could be a real watershed. I’m honestly in awe of how you’ve become such a great person, so compassionate and insightful – honest and aware and determined to fight oppressive shit wherever you can – in spite of having had this vile treatment and vile message forced on you. Happy to read your name in its current form!

  146. 146
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Ogvorbis, this sounds like it could be a real watershed.

    It feels that way to me, too.

    I’m honestly in awe of how you’ve become such a great person, so compassionate and insightful – honest and aware and determined to fight oppressive shit wherever you can – in spite of having had this vile treatment and vile message forced on you.

    Not to minimize what I have been through, but others have survived worse. I’m lucky. Privileged, if you will, that I have the time to actually deal with this shit.

    Happy to read your name in its current form!

    Oh, I’m sure that’ll change.

  147. 147
    Matt Penfold

    Not to minimize what I have been through, but others have survived worse. I’m lucky. Privileged, if you will, that I have the time to actually deal with this shit.

    True, but you do still have to deal with it, and it clearly has not been easy. That you are proving you can deal with makes you a success, so no more talk of appending failure to your name OK ?

  148. 148
    carlie

    *huge amount of Ogvorbis hugs*

    Out of interest, how large is a hope chest supposed to be, or does it vary?

    I’ve always thought of them as big enough to put a person or two in. :) Mine is about 3 feet high, 4 feet wide, and 2 feet deep. It holds all of the special blankets we’ve gotten, a few of the general winter blankets (when it’s not winter), and occasionally serves as extra clothes storage.

  149. 149
    rq

    carlie
    The dimensions “one- or two-people sized” seem to be universal, then. Besides the cultural baggage coming with it, it seems like an entirely practical sort of box to have around.

  150. 150
    theoblivionmachine

    This gave me giggles; evidence that animals can be greedy gits too.
    Story here, clicky the picture for a better view.

    Pike (~100cm, ambush predator) chomps on Zander (~75cm, active hunter), Zander likely extended the spiky fins on the back and behind the gills, essentially anchoring it, making the Pike unable to spit it out.
    He literally bit off more than he could chew.

  151. 151
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Bursting in for a quick rant:

    [Major Biotech Supply Company] really needs to get its fucking act together. I need one of their proprietary no-we-won’t-tell-you-the-ingredients no-we-won’t-authorize-another-manufacturer reagents.

    And it is backordered.

    Until February 20.

    *throws something*

  152. 152
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Hello, all!
    An anonymous hordeling needs your votes for a good cause. Please use your favorite voting fingers to click this link for the $25K Giveaway for Good.
    http://www.25kgiveawayforgood.com/vote/mental-health-association-of-frederick-county-97

  153. 153
    David Wilford

    On the subject of black IPAs, here’s a very good one that unfortunately you can only get in Wisconsin:

    http://www.newglarusbrewing.com/index.cfm/beers/ourbeers/beer/black-top

  154. 154
    dianne

    Good morning! I’m rather threadrupt but making a drive by to say that astronomy is ridiculously underfunded but finding utterly cool things out about the universe nonetheless.

  155. 155
    David Wilford

    Science fiction writer and atheist Jay Lake has been suffering from recurrent cancers for several years and has been sharing his experiences on his LiveJournal, with few holds barred. A film documentary of Jay’s trials has been in production for some time now and there’s a Kickstarter that’s now up that is hoping to raise enough money to cover production costs that have gone up because of recent changes in Jay’s condition. I thought others here might be interested in helping out, and there’s more information here:

    http://jaylake.livejournal.com/3053054.html

  156. 156
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Thanks for the congrats, Hekuni Cat, Mildlymagnificent, Opposablethumbs, Giliell,
    Tigger

    Reliable transport is so important, don’t you think?

    Indeed. I’m not sure I believe that this car is mine yet. I realized it’s the first one I’ve owned in the following categories: made in the 21st Century (barely), from a dealership, with a car loan, and not embarrassing to drive! : )

    Ogvorbis

    Is won the right word? I feel like the scattered pieces of me have coalesced back into me. The only think I have defeated (hopefully, anyway) is the part of me that blamed me for something that I had no choice about doing. I feel better, right now (even with a minor back ache and my knee acting up) than I have felt in my entire adult life.

    So many hugs, so much happy for you.

    Improbable Joe

    Even if this isn’t the last of the shit you’re going to have to deal with, hold onto the knowledge that you CAN feel good, and you absolutely deserve to feel good.

    This this this.

    Giliell
    Hope your neck gets relief soon : /

  157. 157
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Portia:

    How did it go at the dealership? Did you ask about the price, or just let it go?

  158. 158
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Ogvorbis:
    I did ask about the price, and the answer was just what we thought. It had been on the lot forever. They actually called the price the “auction price” in the emails I exchanged before going to the dealership. Thanks for the encouragement to actually ask. In spite of the fact that it’s my job and I do it for other people, I’m not a great advocate for myself!

    It went well for the most part. I got a really short loan term with a really high rate, but it’s only for $2400 (including tax, title, fees, etc) so if the clients that are supposed to pay me actually pay me it shouldn’t take me nearly two years to pay off. My friend J has a bit more knowledge than I do about cars and he rode along on the test drive and said everything seemed good to him. My gut/instincts/whatever were mostly delighted to feel heat coming out of the vents, so I was on board immediately. It looks so pretty sitting out there in my carport. I’m going to love and cherish it and probably drive it til it dies. And hope to get $500 or so out of a craigslist sale of my old junker. The dealership offered $100 trade-in and I decided it was worth hassling with selling it myself. (The salesman offered to put it on CL for me for $50…I managed not to laugh in his face).

  159. 159
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Portia:

    Don’t feel bad about a high interest rate. First, you are showing credit worthiness with keeping up the payments. Second, for a small short term loan, a high interest rate really doesn’t matter. Even if it is credit card rates, on that amount of money, no big deal (Yes I am showing my privilege here, sorry).

    No surprise that the dealership offered $100. That may be that ACV of the car but, since they are selling you the car at, basically, wholesale, they would have to offer wholesale for yours.

    When you do sell your car, make sure that you include in the sales contract something about ‘the seller has told the buyer everything that the seller knows is a problem and the buyer will not come back and bite the seller in the arse when the transmission drops out in a month.’ Of course, you probably already know this, but, again, my unsolicited advice comes from selling cars at a dealership.

    And if you liked the way the dealership and sales and finance staff treated you, let others know. This kind of thing can help dealerships become better by rewarding good behaviour.

  160. 160
    ChasCPeterson

    only black IPA I know is my local, Blue Point Toxic Sludge. It’s delicious imo, and all proceeds go to oiled-seabird recovery efforts.

  161. 161
    AJ Milne

    Good morning! I’m rather threadrupt but making a drive by to say that astronomy is ridiculously underfunded but finding utterly cool things out about the universe nonetheless.

    That.

    I’m of weirdly mixed emotions about it, sometimes, tho’…

    I mean, I kinda wish the TPF (Terrestrial Planet Finder) project had flown… Buuuut…

    Even without it flying, somehow such incredible progress has been made in exoplanet research. And from what (little) I understood, there was always a lot of if coming off the TPF plan, to borrow a Whedonism. Might not have even been the best approach anyway… The crazy shit they’re pulling even from images shot from the ground these days, it’s just unbelievable.

    Naw. Scratch that. To hell with that sentiment, even…

    I wish it had flown anyway. Seriously, I think in the wildest dreams of things going horribly wrong and costs ballooning, it probably wouldn’t have come within a mile of the stupid shit that happens on the military ledgers. And so what if it turns out there are cheaper, better ways later, and some brilliant bastard with a slide rule figures out two years later how to tease the same spectrographic goodies out of a ground based mirror and kickin’ rack of CPUs? If it had flown, if it had worked…

    I’m very selfish, see. I want to live to see someone on a press conference bouncing up and down like mad and saying ‘There! Right there! (points) Like 70 light years thataway! A little rock! With water vapour and free oxygen in the atmosphere! And we’re pretty sure the oxygen wouldn’t be there if something weren’t continuously liberating it! Life, you bastards! Life!…’

    And it seems just likely enough, now, if the instruments and techniques come along fast enough, I just might.

    (/So. You know. Selfish. This and a proper sustainable energy economy that doesn’t dump ridonkulous amounts of carbon into the atmosphere. And no more famines. And world peace. Thanks.)

  162. 162
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Ogvorbis:

    yeah, that’s what the financing guy at the dealership said about the interest rate. It’s so high not because of my credit rating but because of my debt-to-income ratio, which is astronomical. (Thanks, student loans! You suck!) I’m not too stressed about it for exactly the reason you said. Ha, the car was at wholesale, wasn’t it? That’s pretty awesome. I’m always proud of my bargain shopping, but I think this one might take the cake.

    I plan to make sure that a buyer knows all the stuff that’s wrong with the car and that all sales are final. : )

    Consider your advice permanently solicited on anything I mention that you are knowledgeable about : )

    It turned out that an acquaintance of mine had just started at the dealership so I’ll probably send people to him if I have referrals to make.

  163. 163
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Ha, the car was at wholesale, wasn’t it? That’s pretty awesome.

    That, or close to it. Auction price is essentially wholesale.

    When Boy’s car died, we went to three dealerships. The first two didn’t even want to deal with us. Went to a third dealership. Talked with the sales person. He took us to the finance person. She got Boy bought on a loan with a sliding amount based on year of vehicle and mileage. Then we went out, with the sales person, to look at the choices that fit in what he could buy. And he ended up with an 09 Hyundai Accent with a 5-speed manual (yeah, we had to teach him to drive a stick) with only 30k miles and a low payment. So three days later, Wife and I were looking at everything we needed to do with the van, realized just how well Boy had been treated, and went back to the same sales person, same finance person, and got what we wanted. Since then I have sent four people to the same sales person, by name, Three of them have bought cars. We got a thank you letter from him about a month ago. I like rewarding people who treat people like people.

  164. 164
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    That’s great, Og. Finding people like that is definitely rare and great. SO got a check in the mail from a car salesperson once, because he referred lots of people to him. SO referred people there because that salesperson was just as you described: fair and respectful and good people. (SO is positioned to refer people because he’s a bankruptcy attorney and people going through bankruptcy often need to find a more affordable car). I wasn’t terribly impressed by the guy I dealt with. He wasn’t bad, but he wasn’t “good people” really.

  165. 165
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Not that anyone here needs the help, but here are some fun analogies for the “ignore the bigot and they will go away” argument. Made me smile.

  166. 166
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    I’m meeting with the family that adopted a child today. The one where I’ve been appointed guardian ad litem for the child. Turns out she’s 11. Anyone here have tips for subtle clues to look out for that would be red flags?

  167. 167
    x

    Regarding Black IPA: Instead of looking in six-pack land, I’ll look in 22-oz bottle land. This is often the realm where true specialty beers can be found (for example the non-oaked Arrogant Bastard, or Hop Stoopid), and I can actually explore three different varieties along with B.I.L. and Guests.

  168. 168
    x

    Or not. If they have Widmer’s offering or Black Cannon, I’ll probably get one of those.

    Ah, now that extensive file copy to the external drive is complete. Think I’ll get back to work* now.

    *Not a job. Pre-job, possibly.

  169. 169
    cicely

    I spent the night trying to explain the germ theory of disease to a drunken elf. It did not go well….
    -
    Names aside, I’ve always seen hope chests as more practical than anything else. I know that, as Son was approaching maturity, we started stockpiling household stuff to help get him set up. Same general idea, except he didn’t have to marry to get the goods. Or become a woman.
    :)
    -

    Unless I can have a sedan chair carried by the gorgeous men of the Horde…

    I thought about that, too…but ultimately decided that it was sexist. And, of course, appallingly selfish. The first could be dealt with by dealing porter’s duties on an equal opportunity basis for any strong, strapping folks who were game for it, regardless of any sex/gender/species considerations…but the selfish part, not so much.
    -
    Giliell: *hugs* and sympathy for the neck pain. I finally got mine to un-crick. Bliss!
    Sympathies also for the anhedonia.
    -
    Electric lunganhas.
    -
    *waving* at Amblebury.
    -

  170. 170
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    ‘pretty ‘rupt, but I know there are conga rats in order for suido, also anyone else in need of them. Hugs for Obvorbis, great to hear you’re feeling at least somewhat better. Tony, it’s great the Jim got back in touch, hope you could help him.
    Gilliell

    Because right now everthing is bad. I hardly derive pleasure from anything, even the things I know would make me happy normally and while every single slightly not good thing hits me like a ton of bricks I simply don’t even notice anything that goes well or works out.
    Shit.

    I hear you on this one. I think that it’s just general stress, though. I mean, I know that I’m having a depressive episode, but there are reasons I feel this way too. It just seems like everytime I get something dealt with, there’s two more crises. I got my bike fixed, but now the shifter doesn’t work right, so I need to take it back to the shop, I’ve got to manually deliver paperwork by Friday to an office on the other side of town from work (on my bike, on a workday), if I want L and I to get benefits this month and not have to pay my premium three times on my next paycheck (Due to really stupid policies regarding holidays and paychecks I’m going to pay double next paycheck regardless) etc. Also, I can’t remember the last time I actually got a full nights sleep without being woken by a flaring ulcer. Sorry, I just needed to vent a bit there.

  171. 171
    cicely

    As I remembered what happened, one thing still stands out. When he told us, with his wife standing by, that “There are two kinds of people in the world. Men and girls. Girls exist to give men pleasure and men can take it whenever they want. Some of you girls may grow up to be men — that’s what I’m here for. Grow up, be men, and enjoy the life God has given.” (awkwardly paraphrased)

    I think that the cycle of abuse is usually perpetuated more by example than by out-right explanation, but this seems like a good summing-up of it.
     
    And I think, Ogvorbis, that you can justly call that a WIN.

    I’m a little scared. This has been a background part of my life for over thirty years and a major part of my life for the past year and a half. What happens now?

    A new, and better, normal.
    -

    The dimensions “one- or two-people sized” seem to be universal, then. Besides the cultural baggage coming with it, it seems like an entirely practical sort of box to have around.

    ‘Cause you never know when you may need to temporarily hide one or two bodiespeople.
    :)
    -

  172. 172
    Dr.Cheeselove

    What do people think of this trend: http://spiritfawn.tumblr.com/post/38455105502/humans-are-naturally-herbivorous-the-anatomical

    I’m not a biologist, but the idea that humans are naturally herbivorous strikes me as rather fishy.

  173. 173
    rq

    cicely
    Exactly. :)

  174. 174
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    If humans are biologically herbivores, why don’t we have any cellulase in our guts?

    Humans are capable of herbivorism, but we’re omnivores: i.e. we’re equal opportunity and willing to do/eat anything not actively lethal.

    There are societies who have lived healthy and functional lives being functionally herbivores. There are also societies who have lived healthy and functional lives being functionally carnivores.

  175. 175
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    rq:

    Besides fitness training, I will also have you down as General Carrier of Venerable Women. Is that a sexist occupation for you to have…? ;)

    So what do I get out of this arrangement?

    ****

    Giliell:
    I hope the neck pain lets up soon. Is it the type where you cannot turn your neck without shooting pain?

    In other terms, I’m really glad I have an appointment with my therapist on Friday. Because right now everthing is bad.

    This doesn’t sound good. I hope your therapist is able to help you.
    Bacon infused ice cream via USB heading your way :)

    ****
    Ogvorbis:
    I’m glad to see that you’re doing better. Nothing added to your nym. You really seem like you’ve hit a breakthrough.
    I was feeling rather bad yesterday, because I had asked you why you added failure to your nym. Apologies for any part I played in bringing you down.

    ****
    Dalillama:
    I am not sure how much more contact with Jim I will have. He contacted me and played coy about what he wanted, until he flat out asked me if I would have sex with him again.
    My response:
    “I am not offended in the slightest. However, as I said that night, until you get a better handle on your sexuality, I do not want to be with you like that. I think you are an attractive, intelligent man, but I think you need to settle the turmoil within you. You obviously have attraction to men. You have for some time. You do not need another bout of sex to confirm this. You have to come to terms with being gay. There is nothing wrong with you or the millions of gay men, lesbians, or transsexuals across the world. Human sexuality…human sex…is a wonderful thing. Embrace it. Accept that THIS is who you are. No one gets to decide that but you. And do not let anyone tell you what kind of person you should be. This is your life. As far as anyone knows, it is your one shot. Do you want to squander it in denial, or embrace it and know internal peace?
    The choice is yours.”

    Since I sent him that, he has responded once, to say that he was trying to abstain from sex, but wanted to try one more time to see if he really was gay.


    Sorry to hear about your ulcer. Are you going to be able to see a doctor about that?

  176. 176
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Eeee, European Figure Skating Championships are in Zagreb this year.

  177. 177
    Dr.Cheeselove

    Esteleth,

    I know! And these people seem to think that people can live off of cardboard? Where are they getting this? I have a friend who is getting really hardcore about this vegan, eat-on-raw, animal rights stuff and it’s strange to watch, especially as they identify as skeptic.

  178. 178
    Ing

    Since I sent him that, he has responded once, to say that he was trying to abstain from sex, but wanted to try one more time to see if he really was gay.

    *snicker*

    See if he was being scientific he would want a threesome with a bi man and a woman.

  179. 179
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Sorry for posting with no consideration for things going on. I read some comments at work, but skipped a lot and now I have no idea what is happening to whom.

  180. 180
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    You know, I’m looking out of the window at work. I have a beautiful view of the Gulf of Mexico, which is currently shrouded in a very cool layer of fog. I don’t know why, but I find this very peaceful and beautiful.

  181. 181
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    I was feeling rather bad yesterday, because I had asked you why you added failure to your nym. Apologies for any part I played in bringing you down.

    That was right there in the beginning of the conversation (well, that iteration of the conversation) that led, in roundabout ways, to me remembering her name (one of the big sticking points for me was that I couldn’t remember her name. the idea that I hurt her but didn’t remember who she was made me feel like I was still hurting her by thinking of her as an object and not a person.) and realizing that yes, I had a choice as to whether or not to abuse her, but it wasn’t a real choice. It was a magician’s choice — either way, I lost — which means that it was not my choice to hurt her but my abuser’s choice.

    So no reason to apologize. Read through what happened again and you will see that (this time (this conversation has occurred before, but I had failed to make the (now obvious) connections)) your comment about my ‘nym was almost a key log in my memory and my view of myself. So thanks for questioning me. It (I think) really helped.

  182. 182
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Wow, Tony…not to belittle what may be a very difficult struggle for Jim…but…he sounds like SO when I’m baking cookies: “I’m not sure if that first one was delicious, let me try three more to make sure.”

    Giliell
    Hope the cloud passes soon and that your appointment is helpful. *hugs*

  183. 183
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    *hugs* for Dalillama.

  184. 184
    rq

    Lenny
    Also, I think I can find you the equivalent site for why humans are carnivores – which uses the exact same points to make the opposite claim. My sister sent me this crap a while ago, and a short google search turned up a lot of contradictions. Hang on and I’ll see if I can root through my email about this stuff!

  185. 185
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Beatrice:
    Don’t be sorry. We all do it. That’s the benefit of an open thread :)

  186. 186
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    I haven’t read much about the accusations of Lance Armstrong doping. I need to look into that. I know T is fiercely defensive of Armstrong. To the point that I don’t know if she’d accept incontrovertible evidence that he did indeed dope. But I am curious.

  187. 187
    rq

    Portia
    A common affliction among those made to suffer the smells and sounds of fresh cookies in the process of becoming fresh cookies… They’re just never sure.

    Tony
    re: Jim
    I think that was a great reply.

    re: carrying Venerable Women
    You get the pleasure of carrying Venerable Women. What did you expect, something like wages? *pffft* Only if you’re using the gold standard – I’ll pay you in nuggets and necklaces, chainlink by chainlink.

    Beatrice
    Yay figure skating! Do you watch it for the sport or for the costumes? /snark
    (Actually I enjoy watching, too… Especially the bits where the women throw the men… I mean, the women get thrown by the men and land on their feet.)

    Ing
    +1 for the scientific comment!

    +++

    *assorted hugs* for those in need!

  188. 188
    Dr.Cheeselove

    rq,

    That’s funny. Is the humans-are-carnivores argument supported by “reputed” doctors and scientists like the herbivorous one? Do these people know what “reputed” means? How do they not see through it? It baffles me.

  189. 189
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    I am willing to believe that reputed doctors support this.

    In fact, I’m willing to believe that the diplomas they would produce when asked for proof are real and totes not from a diploma mill!

  190. 190
    ChasCPeterson

    If humans are biologically herbivores, why don’t we have any cellulase in our guts?

    well, to be fair, no animals have genes for cellulase. Specialized folivores and grazers have specialized gut compartments housing cellulolytic microbes of various kinds. It’s also possible to be “herbivorous” without eating that much cellulose–granivores, frugivores, nut-eaters, gumivores, nectarivores, pollen-eaters, tuber-eaters–and these diets generally don’t require much morphological or physiological specialization (just ecological opportunity).

    But that’s not to argue that humans are specialized herbivores–nah. Comparative studies of teeth, guts, parasites, microflora, etc. all say omnivore*. One of the best single arguments is the secretion of pancreatic elastase, a protein-digesting enzyme that is apparently specialized for the protein elasttin, which is found only in animal tissues.

    *btw, our closest ecological competitors have always been pigs, which which we share many convergent particulars of teeth, guts, parasites, and microflora.
    Sorry for no reference liks, but this is all googlable and corrections cheerfully accepted.

  191. 191
    ChasCPeterson

    one ‘t’ in ‘elastin’

  192. 192
    rq

    Esteleth
    You mean they’re actual doctors and all? With a real diploma? :P

    Lenny
    Not sure if this helps, but these are the two sites that popped up in the conversation with my sister:
    this one and this one.

    I did a pretty good job of convincing her that we are omnivores, I think. *pats self on back* And right after that my best friend went on about how she wants to start her cats on the fresh-meat-only diet
    (which seems more supportable, but still…). *sigh*

  193. 193
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Chas:
    True. So, I rephrase:
    If humans are herbivores, why don’t we have cellulase in our guts (that we express ourselves or from a symbiot), three stomachs, bills for poking holes in trees, appendages designed for cracking nuts, scooping resin, etc etc etc?

  194. 194
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    I believe that reputed doctors support both natural vegetarianism and natural carnivorism. After all, there are reputed mobsters, reputed terrorists, reputed white supremacists, so why not reputed doctors?

    (Odd. Vegetarianism is a word but carnivorism isn’t)

  195. 195
    Dr.Cheeselove

    ChasCPeterson,

    Thanks. After reading that, something very obvious occured to me. I don’t have to refute that chart point by point if my friend brings it up. I just have to point out that the chart deals with a false binary, herbivore vrs carnivore, and that it doesn’t have a category for “omnivore.” And I will bring up that if it did have an omnivore category, that humans have much in common with pigs.

  196. 196
    Dr.Cheeselove

    Ogvorbis,

    Hilariously enough, the new vegan slang for a meat-eater is “carnist.” Which makes me think of carnal knowledge.

  197. 197
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    rq,

    Ha. For the skating. :)
    Mum always says she used to like watching skating when it was still popular here, and the competitions were played on tv every winter, so I’m taking her to see some good skating live.

  198. 198
    ChasCPeterson

    I just looked at the originally-linked chart, and it’s a bunch of bullshit. There is a column for “omnivore” but it doesn’t indicate how that’s defined or what kinds of animals are included and it’s completely unsourced. It probably includees shitloads of phylogenetic confounding (e.g. ‘omnivores’ descended from carnivores and others from herbovores) The gut-lengths look like bullshit too. If an original source can be found, is likely to be pretty much completely demolishable, but it would take more research-work than is worth it to me.

  199. 199
    The Mellow Monkey

    Lenny:

    What do people think of this trend: http://spiritfawn.tumblr.com/post/38455105502/humans-are-naturally-herbivorous-the-anatomical

    I’m not a biologist, but the idea that humans are naturally herbivorous strikes me as rather fishy.

    A lot of the “herbivorous” traits they claim as universal (they aren’t) are actually primate traits, so of course people have them. And then there’s this bullshit:

    If your lower jaw moves from side to side—and you grind and chew your food—then you are unequivocally herbivorous. The jaws of carnivores/omnivores only move up and down, vertically. They don’t chew; they just rip and swallow.

    I see this repeated all over vegan spaces without any evidence to back it up. Omnivores do not have carnivore jaws. They have omnivore jaws, which will differ based on the specifics of their diets. We do not grind our molars flat by moving our jaws side-to-side. Instead, our molars overlap (similar to some carnivores and some omnivores) to allow crushing and tearing, while limiting that side-to-side movement. Can we move our jaws side-to-side? Obviously so, but our teeth line up in a way to make this more difficult while chewing. The degree to which the teeth and jaw lean towards one end of the spectrum or another is going to depend on how big of a factor meat or plants are in the diet. An animal like a human that gets most of its nutrition from plants while also gaining a lot of dense calories from meat will lean a little more towards herbivore traits, but that doesn’t negate its ability and preference for keeping meat in the diet. This is meant for teaching kids, but it goes through the differences in very basic language.

    There are many good reasons for being vegetarian or vegan. Making up lies to support such a diet is damaging, though.

  200. 200
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    rq
    An all fresh meat diet certainly won’t hurt a cat, as long as you include organ meats. That’s basically what cats eat in the wild, after all.
    Tony
    Yeah, hopefully once my insurance goes through I ll be able to see a doctor for that soon. I’ve also had a persistent skin condition for several months now where my torso has all pink blotches on it that I’m hoping I’ll be able to get dealt with. not to mention dental.

  201. 201
    Dr.Cheeselove

    ChasCPeterson,

    Oh yeah, it does have an omnivore category! That will tell you how hung over I am. Maybe I will just post one of the site’s rq linked to that argue that human are carnivores and pretend that I’m considering adopting an all-raw-meat diet. That will be a subtle way of showing how arbitrary these charts are. My friend will then bring up some of the point on the humans-are-herbivores charts and I will quickly refute them using the power of wikipedia.

  202. 202
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Dalillama:
    I wonder if it would be more expensive to feed a cat a fresh meat diet versus more traditional cat food..?
    Also, organ meats just sounds icky to me.

  203. 203
    rq

    Dalillama
    I know, it was just that it came right after the discussion and I was of two reactions: (1) ah no, not this crap about digestive systems again; and (2) hey, this is where the carni-/herbivore dichotomy actually works!
    In the end, though, she gave up – her cats liked their dry food too much.

  204. 204
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    [meta]
    Lenny:
    I love your ‘nym.
    I don’t even love cheese all that much, but it is cool!

  205. 205
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    Tony
    Yes, it’s way more expensive. That’s why almost everyone feeds their cats dry food instead.

  206. 206
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    A thing I actually saw at the pet food store: VEGAN CAT FOOD.

    I was boggled. How is that remotely healthy food for an OBLIGATE CARNIVORE?

    So I asked an employee. Who explained that it is supplemented with hella high amounts of (plant-derived) protein, to make it cat-edible.

    It also costs $50 a pound.

  207. 207
    Dr.Cheeselove

    Mellow monkey,

    Thanks for the link! I should probably learn more about this stuff anyway so I can explain to my kids which dinosaurs ate meat and which ones ate plants.

    Tony,

    Thanks! It was supposed to come up as Dr.Cheeselove, but I did it wrong. Oops!

  208. 208
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    An all fresh meat diet certainly won’t hurt a cat, as long as you include organ meats.

    Just watch out for them developing a fondness for tea and wildly countraephoenaetci spaellngi. ^.^

  209. 209
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    Esteleth
    I remain highly skeptical that large amounts of vegetable protein will help much, or that cats can remain remotely healthy on such a diet.

  210. 210
    rq

    Azkyroth
    Kind of like the LOLcatz…?

  211. 211
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Speaking of cats, does anyone have a cat that *doesn’t* like canned tuna?

  212. 212
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    That is my thought as well, Dalilama.

    Which is why my cat gets cat food that (1) actually has meat in it (she likes the fish kibble, so I give her fish kibble) and (2) costs $15 for 50 pounds.

  213. 213
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    I have never offered my cat tuna (I hate the shit, so I don’t have any to offer her), but I have noticed that her reaction when I make myself fish and chips is to go BLECH OMG WTF IS THAT.

  214. 214
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Speaking of cats, does anyone have a cat that *doesn’t* like canned tuna?

    Yes. Two of them.

  215. 215
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    The whackiest cat story I have heard involves a cat (named “Cat” in Urdu because she was named by a five-year-old) that got in a fight with a mongoose. Because.

    It was a draw, and afterwards they were best buds and would tag-team snakes.

  216. 216
    rq

    Tony
    Yes. The only fish my cat will eat is fresh salmon. FRESH. And he comes running if I’m fixing fresh meat, but he won’t eat the fatty bits.

    Lenny
    You can change how your ‘nym appears, by the way. In your profile. There’s a thing where you can select how your ‘nym appears when you post.

    Dalillama
    But it’s the moral way for cats to eat, don’t you know, so they all go to kitty heaven in the end!

  217. 217
    The Mellow Monkey

    Tony, my cat adores it, but won’t actually eat it. She just licks it to death, so I have to keep adding water and stirring up the fish slurry until she’s managed to accidentally ingest all of the tuna while licking up the water.

    I’ve tried giving her other bits of meat before and she won’t eat them either. She hated the canned food I gave her when she was a kitten, too. Only kibble makes her happy, so I get her this stuff, which she loves. It’s the only kibble that doesn’t make her ill (I assume it’s the grain in cheaper stuff that does her in).

    I’d love to switch her to an all meat, homemade diet, but 1) it’s expensive and 2) I doubt she’d eat it.

    Oh, you silly cat.

  218. 218
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Mmm, tuna. You helped me make Friday lunch/dinner plan.

    Tuna salad (for humans):
    canned tuna
    pasta
    sweetcorn
    mayo
    salt and pepper

    Adding some pickles won’t hurt it either.

  219. 219
    David Wilford

    From what I’ve learned, cats should not be fed a vegan diet because their digestive tract isn’t built for it:

    http://www.essentialvegetarian.com/2007/07/08/7-reasons-why-your-cat-cannot-be-vegetarian/

  220. 220
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Indeed, David Wilford. Cats are obligate carnivores – their bodies are not compatible with any other diet.

  221. 221
    Dr.Cheeselove

    rq,

    It worked!

  222. 222
    rq

    Beatrice is a cat? Oh, you specified for humans. Pickles would make that salad awesome.

  223. 223
    rq

    Dr. Cheeselove
    Yay for caseovorous you!

  224. 224
    Inaji

    Amblebury:

    Caine, you weren’t punching the screen, were you?

    No! Although I did wake today to a dead laptop that refused to boot for 2 hours. Got it running again, but I’d really like to take an axe to it. It’s gonna be one of those months.

    Ogvorbis:

    Is won the right word? I feel like the scattered pieces of me have coalesced back into me. The only think I have defeated (hopefully, anyway) is the part of me that blamed me for something that I had no choice about doing. I feel better, right now (even with a minor back ache and my knee acting up) than I have felt in my entire adult life.

    That’s a win, Ogvorbis. Now I’m crying and smiling. And yes, it’s scary, but you’re going to be fine. Really fine.

  225. 225
    chigau (違う)

    My kitty gets a bit of beef (raw) whenever we cook some for ourselves.
    She can be brought from a deep sleep in a far-away room by the sound of a knife being sharpened.

  226. 226
    Inaji

    Tony:

    Speaking of cats, does anyone have a cat that *doesn’t* like canned tuna?

    My cats can take or leave it, but the rats love the stuff, excepting Sam & Neville.

  227. 227
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Thanks for the sympathy and the hugs.
    I think the good thing is that I recognize that I’m in a really bad shape at the moment. That’s something. And I’m 4 weeks away from the end of the semester and I simply. can’t. fuck. this. up. Because if I do I’ll never get back to college. Although I might give myself a break on the first date for one exam. They offer two, since somehow there’s still a problem with my change of study-course (All the time I was missing a document. they said they’d contact me when it was ready. Given my anxiety I simply left it at that until I realized I really need it this week. Shot them a mail. Reply: Well, it’s been waiting for you to pick it up for weeks. Thank you very much.) which means I’m currently not able to sign up for the first date, I might just take the second one in April. That’s a reasonable plan and not endlessly postponing.

    Tony
    That was a good reply to Jim.

    Dalillama
    Urgh, yeah, those small tiny problems “normal people” just shake off and that can make you melt down and cry.
    (hugs)
    +++
    Also, my respect to lilandra. She was challenged to do it and she did it.

  228. 228
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    rq,

    Oh noes, you found out my real identity!

  229. 229
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Caine:

    Luckily, my office was empty yesterday afternoon. I was smiling and sobbing and laughing and crying all at once. And it is scary but I feel confident.

    Giliell:

    Hugs. Hang in there.

  230. 230
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Erm.

    *offers Beatrice a catnip mouse and refills the litter pan*

  231. 231
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    *hugs* for Giliell

  232. 232
    chigau (違う)

    I always thought Beatrice’s avatar looked vaguely cat-like … if you squint …
    Look!
    http://xkcd.com/231/

  233. 233
  234. 234
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Beatrice:
    Your tuna dish sounds rather tasty. I don’t care for mayo though, so is there anything I could substitute that might be tasty? In lieu of that, how much mayo do you use? I can tolerate small amounts of mayo when I fix a tuna sandwich, but not an abundance of it.

  235. 235
    dontpanic

    Ohh, cat stories.

    Yeah, we’ve got a cat that loves tuna and one that is all “meh” about it. The “meh” cat loves turkey from Panera sandwiches and now associates certain types of bread with it — to the point of tearing open bags containing loaves. So they go stale because he isn’t considerate enough to re-seal them; sort of like our teenager, heh. He (the cat) also likes a particular brand of thin sliced honey roasted deli-style turkey; but only 2 out of every 3 identical looking containers. The rejected ones look, smell, feel, taste no different … but no, he won’t eat them. The dog isn’t so picky. The tuna loving cat also likes particular types of canned dog food so she gets her cut whenever it’s served to the dog.

    Way back there was discussion about Babylon5. Thanks for the interesting discussion — I agree w/ many of the points people presented in a manner that crystalized my own thinking. We’ve got the DVD set; had it for years but I only just finished the series. We were watching it as a family for while, but then it sort of fell to the wayside after the 4th season. I didn’t find it nearly as interesting after the rushed conclusion and reprieve (TV show scheduling and production approval ruin quite a number of decent shows).

  236. 236
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Does this mean that Beatrice is the Lounge familiar?

    Does she bring us good luck?

    Does PZ channel his supernatural mystical atheistic powers through her?

  237. 237
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    My cats, Kayta and Cassie, as well as T’s cats, Ike and Woo LOVE tuna. I had fun with a can the other night. I drained the juice over their dried food, and later the same day, I took small pieces of tuna, rolled them into tiny balls and tossed them around the living room. It was entertaining watching them all rush after every piece. If I took a break, some of them would look up at me like they were saying “uh, why did you stop? Give me more.”

  238. 238
    rq

    Oh good, Esteleth took care of the dirty work upstream.
    As long as Beatrice doesn’t puke on my square metre of floorspace here, I’m ok with her as a cat, magical or otherwise. ;) Beatrice the Magical Mayo-Eating Tuna-Cat.

    And I think the Lounge is full of many familiars. Including a magical Tony! And the Ogvorbisgoat.
    (Sorry, I’m trying to distract myself from the fact that the Bank isn’t being as forthcoming as hoped, which isn’t the end of the world, just doesn’t make our House-victory the rosy affair it was supposed to be. If the Bank is going to take our souls, it might as well be nice about it, but noooo…)

  239. 239
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Tony,

    I don’t like a lot of mayo either, so I use just enough to “bind” the salad a bit.
    I think you could use some cream cheese instead, haven’t tried it though. Now I’m thinking it might be even better. Hmm. Or rather, purrrrr.

  240. 240
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    rq:
    How did you know I’m Magically Delicious?

  241. 241
    rq

    Tony
    Because it’s been leaking through my screen for a while now. ;)
    Also, I hope your cats got all the little pieces of tuna.

  242. 242
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    I don’t think I’ve ever had cream cheese. Isn’t that what people spread on bagels?
    (initially, I was confusing cream cheese with cottage cheese. My mother used to eat the latter. It always looked so gross to me, all chunky and funky like.)

  243. 243
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Tony,

    I guess. But if it’s similar to cream cheese we have here, you can also use it in salads.

  244. 244
    rq

    Tony
    You’ve never had cream cheese???
    Oh dear.

    And cottage cheese is yummy. But I suppose that’s a personal thing – I also like kefir, so you should probably ignore my opinion.

  245. 245
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    I think cottage cheese is what we just call fresh cheese.

  246. 246
    chigau (違う)

    I eat only dry-curd cottage cheese, can’t stand the wet stuff.

  247. 247
    rq

    Beatrice
    Yes, that would be the same here, I think – but here in Latvia you can get the real cottage cheese (supposedly), which is a crumbly sort of cheese that’s good mixed with heavy cream or sour cream and eaten on either toasted black rye bread, or mixed with dill, chives and garlic for a dip/side with chips and vegetables.
    The runny stuff is called house cheese and it’s good, too. Also with greens of various kinds.

  248. 248
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    rq,

    When it’s more crumbly and dry, it’s fresh grainy cheese (svježi zrnati sir) instead of just fresh cheese (svježi sir). Unless we are now talking about completely different stuff :)

    I use fresh/cottage cheese with chard or spinach; in pastries, pancakes, pies…. You can make endless combinations.

  249. 249
    rq

    It’s a very versatile product, indeed.

    What happened to my font???

  250. 250
  251. 251
    rq

    Never mind, it’s back. Thanks, Beatrice.

  252. 252
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Ok. I can pretend I did something wibly wobly timey wimey to rq’s comment

  253. 253
    rq

    Pretend away. I’m going to bed, and whatever happens while I sleep, is not real! Ha.
    See you all tomorrow!

  254. 254
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Good night!
    I’ll be off to bed too now.

  255. 255
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Stupid question time.

    A news gatherer. I am lost. For over twenty five years, I read two newspaper everyday, the Chicago Tribune and the Chicago Sun-Time. But I stopped about a year ago. A solid regional paper from the pre-internet era had more content then these restructured papers.

    I have tried Pulse but it aggravates me. I cannot seem to get whole articles. Even when I try to edit things down, I still get too much entertainment news. What site should I use so that I can get a good handle on my local, national and international news.

    (Am I sounding just a bit old, out of it and befuddled?)

  256. 256
    DLC

    I just went to Youtube, and one of the “recommends” from youtube was a video from AVfM.
    Because I watched the video posted here on sexism in the news media.

  257. 257
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    DLC, that kind of sht happens to me all of the time. Yet an other reason why I am annoyed by YT. Is there any way to disable that?.

  258. 258
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    It is the Nixon centennial. The president whose legacy still lays most heavily upon us (Yes, more then Reagan or Bush II.) was born one hundred years ago today.

  259. 259
    chigau (違う)

    Look what I learned about will looking up cottage cheese
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meat_and_three
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_lunch
    Oh the Humanity.

  260. 260
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Talking about dairy stuff:
    A) The sweet goat curd was actually quite nice after I got over the first horror of sweet goat curd.
    B) Szmetana. I think tomorrow I’ll make Pelmeni and Szmetana.

  261. 261
    The Mellow Monkey

    Plate lunch is awesome. I’ve been craving loco moco for a while now. Also from Hawaii and delicious is Spam musubi, which is grilled Spam on rice, wrapped with nori.

    I’m pretty sure if I had spent any more time with my sister’s ex’s family, I would have died from a delicious heartattack.

  262. 262
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    My computer (or my flash drive) is possessed, I think. There is a folder on my flash drive that has the creation date of December 31, 1969, at 7:00 PM.

    Erm. *confusion*

  263. 263
    dontpanic

    Esteleth,
    Jan 1, 1970 00:00 UTC was the beginning of time. At least as far as UNIX timestamps are concerned; the “epoch” starts then and counts seconds since. In some cases one can have negative times, but it’s also possible that the 5hr difference comes about from a UTC to local time zone conversion.

    Generally this means some clock was confused and returned “0″ seconds since epoch. Or perhaps the file system doesn’t correctly support times, or … lots of ways to travel back in time to approximately Jan 1, 1970.

    No, what you really need to worry about is what happens at Jan 18, 19:14:07, 2038 when this scheme overflows what a 32-bit integer can hold. Some effort is being made to change over to 64-bit values … but we’ll party like it’s year 2K!

  264. 264
    Owlmirror

    Yet an other reason why I am annoyed by YT. Is there any way to disable that?

    Nom your youtube cookies.

  265. 265
    Inaji

    Laptop is definitely a piece of non-working shit. Oh joy. I have most of my stuff backed up on an external hd and I’m back on my itsy bitsy teeny tiny netbook. Mister is effing around with piece of shit Asus now, trying to get it to boot to Fedora. Bleah.

  266. 266
    Inaji

    Gunboat Diplomat is back. There’s a nym I wish I’d never see again.

  267. 267
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    Ick, not Gunboat Diplomat.

  268. 268
    Inaji

    Yep, in the ‘Clint Eastwood/Harris’ thread. Blecch.

  269. 269
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    Shit, I think it was 5-6 years ago the first time I blocked him.

    I have to avoid those gun threads… they really get my blood pressure up.

  270. 270
    athyco

    Background: I am a good public speaker. For the last six years (three of them after my retirement), I’ve been the pronouncer for my school’s spelling bee. I thought, at this point in the year, that they’d gotten someone else, but they asked me again on Monday for the bee next Monday. With a new teacher in charge this year, things were a bit disorganized. Today I picked up the official packet of rules and words.

    I just sent the new teacher an email because I’d found that the last page in the packet was not another page of words, but the program for the spelling bee. I really hope they’re just planning to hand them out at the bee rather than sending them home early by the contestants, because there has to be a change. The new teacher has “Invocation” after “Introductions.” That ain’t happening in a public school. Moment of silence, okay, but if I get to call for it, it’ll include something funny like mentally spelling out each word of the sentence “Everyone is nervous, so take a deep breath.”

  271. 271
    Tigger_the_Wing, Back home =^_^=

    Sorry, I’m well behind at the moment, trying to play catch up; but before I read another word I just want to say to Ogvorbis that I am sitting here on the other side of the planet having just read your 127 and I’m crying my eyes out. You are such a good person, you deserve to have your own forgiveness and I’m so relieved you finally have it. {{{{{Great big hugs}}}}}

  272. 272
    Owlmirror

    I read a couple of Graham Hancock books. “The Sign and the Seal” tries to analyze the Ethiopian Church’s claim to have the original ark of the covenant, and seems to take that claim seriously.

    I also read “Heaven’s Mirror”, which posits, among other things, that some archaeological structures were built to reflect the form of constellations. The obvious one, which he wrote about elsewhere as well, was the pyramids at Giza being a reflection of the belt of Orion. I also recall that Angkor Wat was supposed to mirror the constellation of Draco. Looking at the layout of Angkor Wat on WikiP, I can’t see how he came up with that one. Then he kinda went into the weeds claiming that “Ooh, look, you can make a tetrahedron inside the Earth, such that two of the points are Giza, Egypt and Angkor Wat, and the third is in the Pacific, where there’s this weird underwater archaeological site.” I recall an article that showed the place, and when they showed the blocks in context, it didn’t look like a building; it looked like a geological formation composed of large blocks — odd, but not human-made.

    Anyway, some of his stuff is in my “weird shit” folder.

    Another one in my “weird shit” folder is Michael Cremo, who spills much ink claiming that humans have existed for 100Mya-Gyas. He’s very silly.

    Oooh, another one in that folder is Hoagland! Face on Mars! Pyramids on Mars! Is it a sculpture? Check out these angles on the pyramids! CYDONIA!

    I don’t think I’ve actually read von Däniken or Sitchin; just browsed their books, and read about them.

  273. 273
    birgerjohansson

    Salafist Imam: Mermaids Real, Are Halal
    (Posted at Freethoughtsblogs) http://freethoughtblogs.com/dispatches/2013/01/09/salafist-imam-mermaids-real-are-halal/
    Here is the relevant link to the Salafi centre of Manchester: http://salaficentre.com/2012/11/existance-of-mermaids-rulings-regarding-them-shaikh-al-fawzaan

    And what about Kosher/imaginary animals ? : Excerpt from a book http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2008/04/17/evil-monkey%E2%80%99s-guide-to-kosher-imaginary-animals/

  274. 274
    birgerjohansson

    I forgot to credit Ed Brayton at Dispatches from the cuture wars for the link at 273.

  275. 275
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    I’d love to wade into the Clint Eastwood thread, but my job has apparently totally random web filtering software. I used to be able to visit Ed’s blog, but now I can’t unless I follow a link to a particular article. Meanwhile, about %10 of the time when I go to a thread, refresh a thread, or log in while reading a thread, it sill suddenly start blocking it. I don’t know why.
    &nbsp:
    I can’t say how much I envy those members of the Horde living somewhere where health care is handled in a civilized fashion. I have a choice between two plans, one of which only pays 80% of my medical expenses and leaves me on the hook for the rest, and the other of which covers all of my standard expenses after the co-pay, but will only pay for me to go to one of their clinics. The problem is that L has already got a therapist and a psychiatrist, after great difficulty finding one that was compatible, and Kaiser (the second plan) says they won’t pay for this, because neither one works for them.

  276. 276
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    It is, as of right now, 7:58 pm.

    I have been at work since 5:45 am.

    I am going to be here for at least another hour and a half, if not longer.

    *flail*

  277. 277
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Caine:
    Not an Asus fan, eh?
    What type of laptop do you have (the dead one)?

  278. 278
    Tigger_the_Wing, Back home =^_^=

    *Hugs Esteleth* I hate shifts like that. :(

    My laptop isn’t exactly dying – it’s just that the wires from the base to the screen, that tell the screen to light up, have been working in progressively fewer positions. Now the screen is only lit when either (a) the screen is 80º from the keyboard, which requires really weird contortions, or (b) at 110º from the keyboard provided my left hand is resting on the top left corner, which requires one-handed typing.

    Other than that, it works beautifully. But I still wonder whether it is worthwhile replacing the wires, given that it is one of the first Intel MacBooks and is nearly six years old.

  279. 279
    Inaji

    Tony, the first Asus was okay, the piece of shit I have now was a replacement and it’s a known lemon. They hit the market with faulty motherboards and serious over-heating problems. (Would have been nice if I knew about that beforehand.) It’s been a pain in the ass from day one. It’s a K52N. Absolute piece of crap.

    Oh well, it’s dead. I’ll go shopping for a new ‘puter of some sort in the next week or so. No rush, because I’m lucky enough to have the little netbook and a nook, too. So, while I’m not happy about it, it’s not that big a deal. Should have seen it coming, though, ’cause Mister’s laptop died 2 weeks ago, just got him a new one.

  280. 280
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    What is this “shift” you speak of?

    I am salaried.

    Which means – no overtime for working what is – as of right now – a 18 hour day.

  281. 281
    Tigger_the_Wing, Back home =^_^=

    Esteleth, that’s terrible! Do you at least get time off in lieu?

  282. 282
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    What? No, of course not.

    I am a post-doctoral research fellow. What is this “overtime” and “time off in lieu” you speak of? That sort of stuff is reserved for real people. Y’know, the technicians. The PIs probably get perks too, but I’m not convinced they’re human.

    WAIT.

    PZ IS A PI!

    *flail*

  283. 283
    Tigger_the_Wing, Back home =^_^=

    Good grief. I used to do stupid shifts when I was a taxi-driver, but my boss* insisted I have several naps on long days so that I wasn’t tired. Because, of course, tired driver = accidents. Some days, in contrast, I had next to no work at all.

    My pay was a pittance, even with tips. But it was still the best job I’ve ever had and I continued for the best part of ten years.

    *Me. Who else?

  284. 284
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    See, Tigger, I am a contract employee. Which means that I have (effectively) already earned my entire year’s salary, they’re just giving it to me in chunks. Unless I get fired, I’m getting that money. And there’s no way of increasing it. If I do the bare minimum, I get the same amount as if I work 14 hour days every day. Well, working the bare minimum would get me a less-than-enthusiastic reference when I move on.

    The calculus works something like this: I have [length of contract] to get as many high-quality papers as possible. The more I get (expressed as papers/time), and the more my PI is happy with my work, the better a reference I get, which – together with my CV – enables me to move on to a good position. In exchange for doing all this, I am paid a set amount, set (plus-or-minus a cost-of-living adjustment) by some committee in D.C..

  285. 285
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    In any case, I am done with what I had to do today.

    So.

    Home.

    Sleep.

  286. 286
    cicely

    Tuna salad (for cicely):
     
    canned tuna
    pecan chunks
    sweet pickle relish
    a bit of mustard
    Miracle Whip™
    -

    Cats are obligate carnivores – their bodies are not compatible with any other diet.

    Though they will, at a pinch, also eat paintbrushes—my 20/0 super-spotters, for preference.
    :(
    -
    My Bitsy-cat has lately developed an ugly tendancy to tear into bread. Not that she wants to eat, them, no—she merely needs to reassure herself that they aren’t really oatmeal cookies in disguise.
    -
    I like cottage cheese. Also, cream cheese—especially with bacon and black olives innit, in a split bread roll, nomnomnomnomnom!
    -

    Another one in my “weird shit” folder is Michael Cremo, who spills much ink claiming that humans have existed for 100Mya-Gyas. He’s very silly.

    He is, indeed! I have his Forbidden Archeology.
    -

  287. 287
    John Morales

    cicely, egads!

    (You’re really pushing the envelope of ‘salad’)

  288. 288
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Being the salad purist/snob that I am, I see no greenery in your tuna salad cicely. By golly, you add some this minute or I will puree 6 oz of dried peas and add them to your tuna salad…

  289. 289
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Hmmmm, how to spend my night? Watching Season 7 of Buffy? Sure!

  290. 290
    WMDKitty -- Survivor

    Confession time.

    I was a right asshole to SGBM on another thread. I was being stupid and stubborn and a complete jerk about it.

    I’m sorry. To anyone I offended on that other thread, I am sorry.

  291. 291
    cicely

    John, a “salad” is in the mouth of the…be-taster???
    -

  292. 292
    cicely

    And I have no moral or ethical objections to serving it up with a leaf or two of lettuce ‘twixt salad and bread.
    :)
    -

  293. 293
    cicely

    So you can just keep your nassssty peases, Tony! So there!
    -

  294. 294
    chigau (違う)

    It is possible to put chives or green onions in tuna salad.
    I would permit lettuce *shudder* on the plate as long as it doesn’t actually touch the sammich.

  295. 295
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    Neil Shubin on Colbert tonight!

  296. 296
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Cicely:
    Unless it is a crouton, bread don’t go with a salad. Sheesh. What else do I have to learn ya? Kids these days…

  297. 297
    chigau (違う)

    Well.
    Learn something new “bound” salad.

  298. 298
    Alethea Kuiper-Belt

    Dalillama, my work computer does that sometimes, too. I suspect it’s possibly something to do with Norty Wurdz™ and how long they take to get google indexed.

  299. 299
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    do with Norty Wurdz™ and how long they take to get google indexed.

    I’m afraid that this is total gibberish to me. Sorry.

  300. 300
    Inaji

    WMDKitty, we all have our bad times and moments. Sometimes, learning is painful. Thanks for the realization, it’s appreciated.

  301. 301
    Alethea Kuiper-Belt

    I mean, if a thread contains many swearwords, that thread may get individually blocked by the filter – even though the site as a whole is not blocked. Some filters save what the thread looked like the first time it was inspected, and don’t bother to recheck. Others may refresh sometimes, perhaps using google’s cache, and reassess whether it’s OK for work or not. So a thread might be OK when you start reading. Then it gets into a discussion of the C or N words and it’s still ok. Eventually the filter does a recheck and bam! Banned!

  302. 302
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    Thank you, that actually makes a lot of sense, although I’m damned if I can figure out which words it’s hitting on.

  303. 303
    WMDKitty -- Survivor

    Yeah… I needed to take a few steps back, get some sleep, and, well, upon approaching the matter again with a clear head, it turned out that I was pretty much in the wrong, especially the way I responded.

  304. 304
    Suido

    @Cicely: +1 for the sweet pickle relish. That’s practically a salad by itself, and contains some greenery that Tony claims is missing. If peas count, then so do pickles. Oh sweet pickle relish, my go to sandwich condiment ahead of mustard or mayo.

    @Esteleth: Sleep well. IMO, the difference between scientists and engineers is that scientists do more work for less pay. I say that as an engineer. You have my commiserations.

    Good article/book review about raising girls.

    Alas, the comments are sad making. On the one hand, there’s plenty of men out there that want to bring up their daughters as best they can. On the other hand, many of them think feminism is evil and needs to be balanced with the male point of view.

  305. 305
    Alethea Kuiper-Belt

    I followed the wiki link for the salad and ZOMG it so scary! I have discovered such concepts as “cookie salad” and “snickers salad”. By these definitions, an Eton Mess counts as a salad. I’m not sure how I feel about that. Umm.

    Tony, if you hate mayo but you want a “bound salad”, you could try using other binders like sour cream or Greek yoghurt.

  306. 306
    Alethea Kuiper-Belt

    CANDLE SALAD! CHUCK-A-RAMA!

    My brain hurts. OK, no more wiki walking. Must construct a table and then go home.

  307. 307
    Inaji

    It is very strange to wander out to the kitchen late at night, and get stopped in your tracks by loud, wanton gurgling, sounding like someone’s belly is about to explode. Then I remembered Mister was brewing and there’s fermenting going on. Yeesh.

  308. 308
    RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospital

    Hey everyone.

    I’m not sure if “threadrupt” covers how out of the loop I am. I remember getting frustrated about something that happened here last summer (that itself I can’t remember), and then I got really busy with school, so I’ve only posted really infrequently. I don’t know how much I’ll be posting now, either. School’s about to start again. I’m gonna try reading and posting more regularly, though.

    I just thought I’d poke my head in, see what’s up, and let anyone who remembers me and liked my posts know I’m not dead.

  309. 309
    Tigger_the_Wing, Back home =^_^=

    I’m not very fond of Mayo†, so I usually have a generous dollop of Greek yoghourt with my salad. And with curry. And with nachos. Oh, I also use it as a dip with rice-crackers-and-peanut-butter.

    Sometimes I even use it as a dessert, with fresh fruit.

    Yummy Greek yoghourt! =^_^=

    †Perhaps because home is in Cork? *whistles innocently*

  310. 310
    Alethea Kuiper-Belt

    *groan*

    Naughty Tigger. No more extract of malt sandwiches for you,.

  311. 311
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Of all the people I want to randomly pop up in my head, noelplum99 (aka Jim) doesn’t make the list. Yet I read this:
    ” Women are physically unfit to serve in combat, Rep. Tom Cotton (R-AR) claimed during a Tuesday appearance on the Laura Ingraham radio show. Cotton, who was last seen suggesting that Iraq might have orchestrated the 9/11 attacks, recognized female accomplishments in non-infantry combat roles like helicopter pilot and that women have fought and performed well in Iraq and Afghanistan.”

    http://thinkprogress.org/security/2013/01/08/1418451/gop-congressman-womens-nature-means-they-should-be-banned-from-infantry/?mobile=wp

    …and he comes to mind.

  312. 312
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    RahXephon:

    I remember you. Hope al is well.

  313. 313
    SallyStrange

    Threeeeeadrupt!

    *massive hug pile* just because y’all are awesome!

    I just found the link to the new “Spies of Warsaw” BBC miniseries.

    And activated TunnelBear. Aww yeah. Gonna get some crocheting done.

  314. 314
    RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospital

    @Tony:

    Well, as I said, school’s about to start. I just ate an entire box of Sno Caps. Obama was re-elected while I was gone and now there are four more places in the US where gay people can get married, and none of them happen to be where I live. I rearranged the furniture in the living room today. Still don’t have health insurance. Laundry’s done.

    That random list of crap is my way of saying I’m ehhhh, okay.

  315. 315
    RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospital

    Jesus, the FTBullies tag is still going on Twitter? From like six months ago? I guess after the shoe debacle I shouldn’t be surprised that the Slymepitters have literally nothing else to do, but goddamn.

  316. 316
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    @Ogvorbis :

    You are a good person who deserves to be happy.

    Far better person than me in fact. You have my respect and admiration and I listen to you.

    That is all.

  317. 317
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    PS. Except to add because I never can resist adding something that you are neither a “failure” nor “useless” and have caused a lot of people to think. I’m sure not just me. Thankyou Ogvorbis.

  318. 318
    opposablethumbs

    eh, I’m kind of late (again) but …
    Giliell, I’m so sorry you’re on a low right now. I know it’s a completely different situation, but I’ve been trying to help one of my kids deal with bad pre-exam meltdown for the last week or so and all I can say is I really sympathise. Sounds like you’re taking a very practical approach and I hope things look up for you soon.
    .
    And agree w Giliell and others; that was a good reply to Jim from Tony. Sounds like his conflict is turning him around to the point where he could easily slip into using you without necessarily really thinking about what he was doing. You’re a smart guy, as well as compassionate and with a lot of integrity.
    .
    Hi, RahXephon! Good to see you – and good luck with ongoing school.

  319. 319
    rq

    Good morning!
    Greetings to all. My only complaint about the laptop is that it overheats too quickly because we forget to clean the cooling fan 6 – 12 months at a time. Oops!

    +++

    Yesterday, quietly playing LEGO with children.
    Out of the blue, eldest: “Mum, I want a sister this time, not another one of those brothers. I’m tired of boys all the time.” *facepalm*
    This moment brought to you by Kids Say the Darndest Things.
    (No, I am not currently planning a fourth. Only in that hypothetical, long-term Plan where Husband dreams of having his own football (European) team. Three is fine for me. I have conflicting emotions about a fourth. Either way, it’s still too early; Youngest is not yet fully bipedally mobile.)

    In other news, Winter has returned.

  320. 320
    Lost Asia

    I have a completely off-topic question but this seems a good crowd to ask it: somewhere, there’s a passage about how easy it would be to make a “true” religious text – about how the science of reality isn’t that hard, and such a true book could begin with “In the beginning was the bang”, and so on. The book would talk about star creation, evolution, and so on. Where did I see this? I have an impression it’s in a Dawkins book somewhere, but I’m not sure about that.
    -
    (If you must know, I’m looking for it because I want to reference it in a paper about Iain M. Banks’s The Hydrogen Sonata – in that novel one advanced race gives a less-advanced race just such a scientific book of prophecy, so thousands of years later that race has the privilege of claiming that their holy scriptures were actually right.)
    -
    Thanks in advance!

  321. 321
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    rq
    That’s a nice sentiment :)

  322. 322
    Nick Gotts

    It is the Nixon centennial. – Janine

    Ah, your last liberal President! Happy days!

  323. 323
    rq

    Giliell
    It is.
    He should take comfort in the fact, though, that today, at the bus stop, both of his younger brothers were mistaken for girls. ;) (Middle-child has extraordinarily long eye-lashes and a blue, wide-eyed *blingbling* stare, which are about the only parts visible in his snowsuit. Youngest is still too young for reliable determination, once he’s bundled into his winter outerwear.)

    I am also not impressed with city snow cleaning operations today. This is not stroller weather (too bad I don’t have a toboggan that fits all three – oh yay, mother as draft horse!).

  324. 324
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Good morning.

    I slept through the night (this is not normal). I had no nightmares (this is not normal). I have no ache in my shoulders and neck (this is not normal). Yesterday, Wife asked me (I still have not told Wife about this and am really not sure if I want to (is that bad?)) why I am so cheerful (cheerful is not normal).

    And today is Friday!

    And tomorrow is my birthday (47) and all four of the Ogvorbisfamily will get together for lunch at a damn good Mexican restaurant.

    Last night, I got to thinking just how much my life has changed in the past half-decade. I’ve gone from universal deist to atheist. I’ve stopped being a passive misogynist. I rediscovered memories of horrible abuse and have (I hope) worked through them. I think I’ll relax a little for the next five years.

  325. 325
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    rq
    I’m of the firm opinion that you can see a small child’s (assigned) sex when you change their diapers.
    Try the mental trick (if you have good visual imagination): look at a toddler or preschooler and imagine them with some gendered attire: Instant “sex-change”.

  326. 326
    carlie

    Happy birthday, Oggie!!!

    “Salad” doesn’t require greens, right? There’s fruit salad, and potato salad, and macaroni salad, and tuna salad…

    Merriam-Webster says the key things to be a salad are a)small bits of food, b) sauce or gelatin of some kind, c) served cold. I guess the cold part is what separates a salad from a casserole.

  327. 327
    jose

    Has anybody else gotten this a little too frequently lately? What is this?

  328. 328
    rq

    Giliell
    That’s a fun trick, and sometimes works if you only change the length of the hair (if that’s a strong gender indicator in your society). :) It was amusing when all three were little, I had some pink clothes given by friends when we didn’t yet know boy/girl (which was at birth, we asked the ultrasound techs not to tell us all both times), and once those were on (even if mixed with other colours), strangers were congratulating me on my beautiful daughter.
    Eldest was mistaken for a girl (mostly in winter) up to about the age of 3, which is par for the course for middle-child, too, it seems.
    And no, I don’t find it insulting, I find it amusing – the fact that out of three kids, all three could be boys is just so amazingly unbelievable, and I want to tell these people (because I usually get the comments Ooooooh, three boooooys!!! How do you manage?) that it’s 50-50 every time and we just had some bad luck. :) Also why girl would be nice, but I have no guarantees, and it seems a bit of a risk, for such a minor detail.
    Either way, it was a refreshing sentiment from Eldest, considering back in October (?) he’d been afraid to go to a girl’s birthday party, but when I took him to kindergarten before lunch yesterday, he immediately went to play with the girls. So it’s either a strange mental thing for him where boys play with boys which he doesn’t adhere to in practice, or it was a strange little phase!

    Ogvorbis
    That is good news and a great list of accomplishments. I’m incredibly happy for you! (Also, Happy Birthday in advance, since I’ll probably forget, unless you engage in some heavy-handed hint-dropping tomorrow. ;) )
    What/when you tell Wife probably depends on how much she already knows/doesn’t know/level of trust, but if you’ve had a sudden change in mood (esp. for the positive), you might want to give her some explanation, so she doesn’t start wondering about what you do during the day. ;)

  329. 329
    rq

    carlie
    Probably, especially in the case of a macaroni salad!
    (And a warm fruit salad is apple-sauce…?)

  330. 330
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Warm fruit salad? Like a compote?

  331. 331
    rq

    Or that. Don’t really like the stuff, but it can be incredibly warming with a shot of something on cold winter evenings. A good Source of Vitamins, too… I tell myself.

  332. 332
    x

    Ogvorbis: not that Mexican restaurant that has chile colorado on the menu? That you (I think) mentioned long ago in some thread where chile colorado was under discussion? The next time I am bypassing Wilkes-Barre to visit a fracking well or some other much more enjoyable getaway, I’m going to insist to all in the vehicle/caravan that we eat there.

    That dish is how I classify Mexican restaurants, similar to chicken fried steak at breakfast and diners.

  333. 333
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Cannabinaceae:

    Same place. La Tolteca. I don’t know what I’ll get, but it is all good.

  334. 334
    Sarahface, who is trying to break the lurking habit

    Hello Horde! *waves frantically* It’s been a while…
    *hugs* for Ogvorbis & anyone else who needs them, congrats to Suido, happy thoughts/kittens/hugs/commiserations as needed.
    I go back to uni in a few days (can’t wait ^.^) but thought I’d pop in here briefly (as a sort of birthday treat for myself) and say hi before I lose any semblance of free time. I’ve been occasionally reading posts, but rarely venturing near comments for the last however long it’s been.

    Also for Ogvorbis: Happy birthday for tomorrow :)

  335. 335
    rq

    Reading the Eastwood thread, and was about to pat myself on the back for living in a country that actually regulates its firearms, until I remembered that it no longer does so. :(
    Until recently, gun owners had to register their guns (rifles, handguns, everything) and also come to the Forensic building every 5 years (it may have been every 3 for handguns, don’t remember) to have the gun inspected and test shots made. Then it all got scrapped in 2009 because the country took out a giant IMF loan to recover from the financial crisis and it was deemed a waste of expenses (although the governing body received a pay raise the following month, so what do I know…).
    *sigh*

  336. 336
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    *yawns and stretches*

    Morning all!

    *sips Pu-eh*

    Hello Sarahface! Welcome back!

  337. 337
    rq

    When we dismiss Dunham as a woman in control of her own representation, we hinder our own ability to make decisions about our bodies that don’t come exclusively from social pressures to look a certain way. And who wants that? It’s certainly not doing any of us any good.

    For all our talk about wanting to see more so-called “real women” in the media we consume — a problematic category itself, as all women are “real,” no matter how near or far they might be to the female beauty ideal — we are awfully quick to condemn a woman who is showing us reality in a very plainspoken, unvarnished way.

    Rest of the article here.

  338. 338
    rq

    The Environmental Performace Ratings of countries around the world.
    Latvia – 2nd (70.37);
    Sweden/UK – split 9th (68.82);
    Canada – 37th (58.41);
    US – 49th (56.59);
    Australia – 48th (56.61).

    Leader?
    Switzerland. 76.69 points.

  339. 339
    The Mellow Monkey

    Ogvorbis, I’m really blown away by everything you have fought through and the progress you’ve made in the last five years. Here’s to the next five years being happy and peaceful.

    Lost Asia, that sounds incredibly familiar, but I can’t remember any specifics. I did a quick search of a couple of Dawkins books (ebooks FTW), but my search-fu fails me today if he mentioned it in one of them.

    rq, thanks for sharing the article. I hadn’t realized xoJane was publishing that kind of content.

    —-

    Today I have a bit of editing to do and then I am, theoretically, done with a book I’ve been writing, living, breathing for ages now. It feels like ending a marriage to finally get the damn thing out of here. Whew!

  340. 340
    chigau (違う)

    Happy Birthday Oggie!

  341. 341
    rq

    The Mellow Monkey: Caerie
    Yay for done with book! *confetti! relief!*
    And I have to credit my sister with the xoJane link. I admit, it’s the first article of xoJane’s that I’ve read, but I liked it. Very much.

  342. 342
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    Your WTF moment of the morning

    “The judge who originally sentenced them had stated that the way they dressed, the way they spoke, and the fact that they drank Bailey’s Irish Cream proved they were gay,” their lawyer, Alice N’Kom, told global gay rights group All Out, which launched a petition demanding the men’s release

  343. 343
    Socio-gen, something something...

    Hey all! I’m completely threadrupt, so condolences and congratulations as needed.

    My lovely head cold turned out to be sinusitis which created a fun surprise: I woke up Tuesday morning with my left cheek swollen to about three times normal, tingling/burning pain, and hot to the touch — which, given that I take daily corticosteroids, is not a good sign. I knew it was cellulitis because it happens every time I get sinus infection.

    I ended up having to go to the ER because, rather than just listen to me, the campus health doc wanted to refer me to my endocrinologist — who had an opening in 5 weeks. Yeah…that’s awesome for the immune-compromised person with the raging infection. Luckily, the ER staff understood the problem right away. I got IV antibiotics in the ER and horse pills to take for the next three weeks.

    On the plus side, this has given me an excuse to do nothing but lay on the couch and watch Merlin when I should be getting ready for Monday and the start of the new semester.

  344. 344
    rq

    Socio-gen
    The perks of being extremely ill. :P I hope the horse pills do their work, and you’re well in a very short while!!

  345. 345
    AJ Milne

    Your WTF moment of the morning…

    Yeah. Saw that one via FB a little while ago… And the way that story was phrased, the impression given was the problem was they’d ordered the Bailey’s, somehow, in a gay way…

    … it got me to thinking: so how do you order a Bailey’s in a ‘straight’ way? Does anyone have pointers on this, for someone stuck in Cameroon and jonesing for a whiskey/cream liqueur? Would fixing the barkeep with a steely Eastwood type stare and saying ‘… and put it in a dirty glass!’ count for anything? I suggested this at the time, but really, presumably, there are tough, flint-eyed, gay gunslinger type people, too, I guess, so I dunno… And, really, I might actually become somewhat sympathetic to Cameroon if they then passed a law against ordering drinks in a cheesy spaghetti Western way…

    Seriously, it does seem to me that Bailey’s may have an odd opportunity here to make a statement about this, anyway. Tongue-in-cheek like, y’know. There’s got to be some pun on ‘Bailey’s… we don’t insist you drink it straight!’ that would work nicely.

  346. 346
    birgerjohansson

    Miscellaneous links:

    NASA researchers studying advanced nuclear rocket technologies http://phys.org/news/2013-01-nasa-advanced-nuclear-rocket-technologies.html
    .
    15 times stronger than steel: Scientists develops strongest, lightest glass nanofibres in the world http://phys.org/news/2013-01-stronger-steel-scientists-strongest-lightest.html
    .
    (chiro-inositol ) Nutritional supplement may help prevent Alzheimer’s, research suggests http://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-01-nutritional-supplement-alzheimer.html The findings indicate potential for a new strategy for developing Alzheimer’s disease treatments based on compounds already regarded as safe for human use, the researchers write.
    .
    Promising compound restores memory loss and reverses symptoms of Alzheimer’s (TFP5) http://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-01-compound-memory-loss-reverses-symptoms.html

  347. 347
    birgerjohansson

    Clay pot fragments reveal early start to cheese-making, a marker for civilization (3000BC in Central Europe) http://phys.org/news/2013-01-clay-pot-fragments-reveal-early.html
    .
    ‘Swedish prayer call debate treats Islam like a static religion’ http://www.thelocal.se/45498/20130109/

  348. 348
    Nutmeg

    Ogvorbis, I am so happy to hear that you are doing better. I hope that this trend continues, and that you have a wonderful birthday tomorrow!

  349. 349
    Lynna, OM

    Greetings Pharyngulites, are you in need of a Moment of Mormon Madness?

    Law enforcement in Utah has been spending some of their time enforcing fucking bugnuts liquor laws. They’ve done this before, but this time they are nitpicking over a particularly stupid bit of fine print in the liquor laws.

    … restaurants in Utah are learning the hard way that it’s illegal for diners to sip an alcoholic beverage while deciding what to order from the menu.

    Compliance officers and the state’s liquor-control agency say they are warning owners that their employees are in violation of Utah law if they serve alcohol before diners actually request food. To back up the effort, authorities in undercover stings have issued citations to eateries for this type of violation, which in the past was rarely enforced.

    In December alone, nine restaurants paid fines, compared with five who were cited during the 11 previous months and with only one the year before. None of the restaurants had a history of previous violations.

    The violation carries a liquor license suspension of five to 30 days or fines from $500 to $3,000.

    The stricter enforcement comes just before the opening of the Sundance Film Festival on Jan. 17. Undercover officers will be patrolling restaurants that serve many of the tens of thousands of people from Utah and worldwide who attend the 11-day event, which brings in nearly $70 million to the state’s economy. Now, when restaurants are crowded, diners waiting for tables will have to forgo an alcoholic beverage, including people who have made reservations, and customers who are seated may not have a beverage until they place an order for food….

    That’ll teach those liberal commie pinko atheist Sundance people a lesson.

    Salt Lake Tribune link.

  350. 350
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Clay pot fragments reveal early start to cheese-making, a marker for civilization (3000BC in Central Europe)

    Er, BLF, you around?

    Nutmeg:

    Thanks. I feel a little lost not having that fragment to worry.

  351. 351
    ednaz

    Ogvorbis – I am so happy for you! So much good news! And your birthday to boot!

    Last night, I got to thinking just how much my life has changed in the past half-decade. I’ve gone from universal deist to atheist. I’ve stopped being a passive misogynist. I rediscovered memories of horrible abuse and have (I hope) worked through them. I think I’ll relax a little for the next five years.

    This is fantastic!

    and Happy Birthday! : )

  352. 352
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Hi there
    Not looking good at the mum front. Therapy is not working, her values aren’t getting any better, they’re talking about transfering her to the university hospital, which is a good idea.
    Plus asshole doctor who said she had still alcohol hidden in the hospital and that was why she wasn’t getting better. She hasn’t been able to leave the hospital for more than a week, does he think we bring it as a gift?
    Asshole.

    rq
    I’m not offended at people misgendering the little one (although it portrays their stupid ideas about boys and girls). I’m offended at their usual reactions like being angry at me allowing her to wear blue, or saying stuff like with her spitfire character and her daredevil attitude she’d better been a boy.
    Or the worst, offering sympathy for having two girls.
    BTW, three boys isn’t that unusual. I know several families with three sons, only a few with 3 kids mixed and I think none with 3 girls.
    BTW, my mum always wanted 3 boys. She gave up after 2 girls…

  353. 353
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Sarahface, Lynna:
    Good to see both of you around these parts again.

  354. 354
    Nick Gotts

    Happy Brithday Ogvorbis!
    Get well soon Socio-gen!

  355. 355
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Giliell:
    I am sorry your mother isn’t getting better. Hopefully there will be a turnaround in the near future.
    WTF is up with that doctor. How the heck does he think she still has alcohol in her?

  356. 356
    chigau (違う)

    Maybe the doctor’s hip-flask of vodka is missing.

  357. 357
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Lynna:
    If it’s not for the money, I’d really like to know the basis for that massively stupid law.

  358. 358
    cicely

    Tapeworm Logic, at Charles Stross’ blog.
    -
    Tony:
    Bread does so go with “salad”, where the word “salad” is preceded by such other, modifying words as “tuna”, “egg”, and “ham”.
     
    All of which apparently (as per chigau’s Wikipedia cite) count as “bound salads”, which “are often used as sandwich fillings”.
     
    Neener!
    And also, “The term “salad” is commonly mistaken as the term for prepared lettuce.”
     
    Neener neener!
    :)
    -
    *waving*
    Hi, RahXephon. Good to know you ain’nt dead!
    -
    What is the difference between Greek yogurt, and other sorts?
    -
    *pouncehug* for SallyStrange.
    -
    Ogvorbis: Here’s to that kind of “not normal” becoming the new normal! And Happy Birthday.
    -
    I’ve heard, but not experienced, that there is such a thing as a hot German potato salad.
    -
    *waving*
    Hi, Sarahface! And Happy Birthday to you, too.
    -

  359. 359
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Question:
    How effective is chicken soup for alleviating cold symptoms?

    Chicken soup. Chicken soup might help relieve cold and flu symptoms in two ways. First, it acts as an anti-inflammatory by inhibiting the movement of neutrophils — immune system cells that participate in the body’s inflammatory response. Second, it temporarily speeds up the movement of mucus, possibly helping relieve congestion and limiting the amount of time viruses are in contact with the nose lining.

    http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/cold-remedies/ID00036

    I don’t like that “might” and “possibly”. I’ve checked a few other sites and they all say that chicken soup *may* alleviate cold symptoms. None say that it can cure the common cold (which many people still believe).

  360. 360
    Nepenthe

    @cicely

    Hot German potato salad is amazing. Somehow the heat enhances the sourness, plus the dressing is less viscous. Also, texture of warm potato > texture of cold potato.

    @Giliell

    After my preschool teacher informed my mother how terrible it was that I was “so much like a boy” I shat my pants every day thereafter. While it was unpleasant at the time, my mother now says that this was an excellent form of revenge on my part.

    I hope that your mum does better in the near future.

  361. 361
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    The Italians have an excellent idea: Bread and tomato salad. I have made it and it is good.

  362. 362
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Ogvorbis:

    I hope you have a wonderfully fantastic birthday!
    It looks like you already have a good start on it, what with not having nightmares.

  363. 363
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    I
    hate
    webinars

    that is all

  364. 364
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    A, c’mon, Rev, with a webinar, you get all of the useless self-congratulatory overview, all of the useless generalizations, and none of the personal interaction with other attendees (which is where you actually pick up the useful shit). What’s not to like?

  365. 365
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Look, *I* am supreme ruler of the universe and I say that salad must have green!

  366. 366
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Tony:

    You’ze gots a problems wit’ bread salad?

  367. 367
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Tony,

    You are wrong.

  368. 368
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Tomatoes are evil.
    That is all.
    (for now)

  369. 369
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    How can I be wrong?
    I am God here.

  370. 370
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    A, c’mon, Rev, with a webinar, you get all of the useless self-congratulatory overview, all of the useless generalizations, and none of the personal interaction with other attendees (which is where you actually pick up the useful shit). What’s not to like?

    Not to mention a string of barely useful information teasing you with conferences you can attend for a price!

  371. 371
    chigau (違う)

    I just cannot think of a good reason for lettuce.

  372. 372
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    I don’t believe in a shoop.

  373. 373
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    I love lettuce! Just not in all salads.

  374. 374
    chigau (違う)

    I just cannot think of a good reason for webinar.
    The word and the thing.

  375. 375
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    Once again proving there is no God and if there was one he’d be a big meanie

  376. 376
    chigau (違う)

    We put the new, dark brown sheets on the bed.
    Within seconds there was a thin layer of cat hair but the cat is not even in the room.
    How do they do that?

  377. 377
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    chiagu,

    On webinars, I agree. Never participated in one, but the idea doesn’t appeal much.
    Unfortunately, I can probably look forward to it if I keep working here.

  378. 378
    cicely

    Look, Tony…you are my very favoritest shoop, but you are completely, incredibly, thoroughly wrong where both salads and tomatos are concerned.
    -

  379. 379
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    My boss constantly emails links to webinars he wants me to watch

    Boss: “Hey this looks like something we should be on top of, can you watch it and let me know?”

    Me: “Well that does looks interesting but I’m pretty sure it’s just a sales pitch.”

    Boss: “Well it’s only an hour, I’m sure you can fit it in and let me know what you find out.”

    Me: “Mumble grumble fuckin grumble”

    Boss: “What was that?”

    Me “nothin’”

  380. 380
    athyco

    Ogvorbis @324:

    I slept through the night (this is not normal). I had no nightmares (this is not normal). I have no ache in my shoulders and neck (this is not normal). Yesterday, Wife asked me (I still have not told Wife about this and am really not sure if I want to (is that bad?)) why I am so cheerful (cheerful is not normal).

    You communicate healing to me, Ogvorbis, and I’m glad of every instance you report of noticing it. You deserve it. It’s not only in the facts of peaceful sleep, lack of pain, and outward demeanor–you’re once again, after a long break from it, writing in embedded parentheses. Happy (I expect it will be) Birthday!

  381. 381
    cicely

    And as for your claims to god-hood—I didn’t vote for you. And you’re going to need a lot better platform to run on than No Tomatoes! Salads Must Be Green! to persuade me.
    -
    chigau: It’s because of Quantum.
     
    The Universe is made up of strands of cat hair, which vibrate on different frequencies; and when you open the box, you collapse their probability in such a way as to cause their existence on your bed.
    -

  382. 382
    Pteryxx

    ^^^ everything Athyco said. <3

    I've seen a video of an adult tiger, rescued from life in a tiny concrete cage, hesitantly going out into a zoo enclosure and cautiously feeling grass and flowing water with his paws for the first time. 'what is this fluffy/wet business here? should I be enjoying this? not sure if want, hmmm…'

  383. 383
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    Ogvorbis
    Hey, that’s great news. Hopefully it persists.
    rq

    That’s a fun trick, and sometimes works if you only change the length of the hair

    When I was around 9-10, I started growing out the crewcut which my mom had previously maintained my hair in. By the time I was 11, I was regularly being mistaken for a girl

    Then it all got scrapped in 2009 because the country took out a giant IMF loan to recover from the financial crisis and it was deemed a waste of expenses (although the governing body received a pay raise the following month, so what do I know…).

    The IMF are obsessed with austerity and Austrian economics; they’ve probably done as much damage to the world as…I can’t even think of a comparison. Certainly the consequences of taking an IMF loan are usually significantly worse than whatever economic troubles caused a country to go looking for one.
     
    @the xojane article
    Color my mind blown.

    Caerie
    Congratulations on finishing the book.

    Tony
    Chicken soup is good for the symptoms of a cold in the same way that any hot liquid is, plus is has calories in, which are often hard to get down you when you’ve got a bad cold. Calories help because your body then has more available resources to expend keeping you going.

  384. 384
    dianne

    I just cannot think of a good reason for webinar.

    They provide cover for your at work naps. I’m not sleeping, I’m watching a webinar. The word, OTOH…I got nothing.

  385. 385
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    They provide cover for your at work naps. I’m not sleeping, I’m watching a webinar.

    It does provide a good reason to have the office door closed for an hour or more.

  386. 386
    opposablethumbs

    We put the new, dark brown sheets on the bed.
    Within seconds there was a thin layer of cat hair but the cat is not even in the room.
    How do they do that?

    Telekinesis. Dogs do it too (at least, this dog does. As did her predecessor, come to think of it – still finding some of his hairs in hidden nooks from time to time, years after his death)

  387. 387
    chigau (違う)

    I should have known there would be Quantumn involved.
    Probably explains the tomatoes, too.

  388. 388
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    I’ve opened brand new food packages in my immaculately clean kitchen and found hair from my two dogs inside.

    They’re magical.

  389. 389
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    It does provide a good reason to have the office door closed for an hour or more.

    An office door is its own reason for being closed.

  390. 390
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    cicely:
    How about Down with Peas! No horses of course(s)! and no tomaters…? Good platform?

    ****
    Beatrice:
    There is no “a” shoop.
    There is only “the” shoop.
    The one above all.

  391. 391
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    An office door is its own reason for being closed.

    Yes.
    —-

    Tony,

    Yeah, one. And the shoop’s shooplet and the shoop’s spirit, right? And then there’s that other shoop you don’t want to tell us about…

  392. 392
    Jadehawk

    hi y’all

    1)I had an awesome christmas vacation, consisting almost entirely of eating polish holiday food, sleeping, and reading the Vorkosigan Saga (I’m all caught up now, having just finished Captain Vorpatril’s Alliance)

    2)My geology professor and I recently talked about creationists, and he said that he once, in all seriousness, got an e-mail with the “the devil buried the fossils” trope. also an e-mail that was a screen-wide image of flames with a skull, informing him he’s going to hell.

    3)My climatology professor couldn’t contain his excitement at the prospect of a storm with ice-pellets on friday; also, he was very dissappointed in the lack of snow and cold weather last winter :-D

    4)I have absolutely no clue what y’all have been up to in the last 3-4 weeks. anything critical to the lives of assorted troubled pharyngulites I should know about?

  393. 393
    Lynna, OM

    Tony the Queer @357

    If it’s not for the money, I’d really like to know the basis for that massively stupid law.

    (In reference to my post @349.)
    There’s not a good reason for the law, but there is a reason: massive representation in the Utah legislature of mormons. They do not care how stupid the laws are, they only care that they impede or otherwise show their disdain for liquor sales in the state of Utah.

    In this case, they also get to show their disdain for people who attend the Sundance Film Festival.

  394. 394
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Not to mention a string of barely useful information teasing you with conferences you can attend for a price!

    And, of course, your division has, probably, tens of dollars for training and travel? All of which, of course, has to go for the supervisor’s mandatory training?

    I just cannot think of a good reason for lettuce.

    It puts the ‘L’ in BLT?

    You communicate healing to me, Ogvorbis, and I’m glad of every instance you report of noticing it

    But it feels so wrong. I have had so long (30-35 years (either not dealing with this shit or dealing with it (and I think I prefer dealing with it (though it meant lots more ups and downs) than not dealing with it (not that I really had a choice — when I wrote it as part of a comment, and then realized what I had written, there was really no choice but to deal with it))) living with either ignoring it or discovering it that the stress, insomnia, nightmares, aches and pains and low grade depression was normal.

    And I hadn’t (honest) noticed that my parenthetical writing style was back.

    2)My geology professor and I recently talked about creationists, and he said that he once, in all seriousness, got an e-mail with the “the devil buried the fossils” trope. also an e-mail that was a screen-wide image of flames with a skull, informing him he’s going to hell.

    I hope he printed it and put it up on the wall of his office (if he has an office (my professors (well, my history professors) had cubicles (two wall cubicles, if I remember correctly))).

  395. 395
    Inaji

    Happy Birthday, Ogvorbis! I hope it’s a splendid one, as the year which follows.

    *Hugs* to RahXephon & Sarahface, good to see you two.

  396. 396
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Welcome back, Lynna.

    Your Moments of Mormon Madness &npsbTM are a pleasure. A schadenfreudic pleasure, but a pleasure none-the-less.

  397. 397
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    An office door is its own reason for being closed.

    If only I could. Unfortunately the constant stream of people coming into my office precludes me from realistically keeping my door closed all the time.

    And it somewhat works in my favor because I’ve now trained people to know that when the door is closed there is a good reason for it (at least that’s the appearance now). I just can’t keep it closed all the time or that would be worthless.

  398. 398
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Damn.

    Alright, brilliant ones (that’s the Horde (in case you didn’t know)) — how do I work the TradeMark superscript again?

  399. 399
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    And, of course, your division has, probably, tens of dollars for training and travel? All of which, of course, has to go for the supervisor’s mandatory training?

    Luckily I am the supervisor for my department, my boss, however the hell this was decided, is the Dir. of HR.

    I’m IT

    figure that one out.

    So any $$$ for travel and conferences I can use it. My problem is convincing them which ones are useful and which ones are reactionary nonsense that they throw at me.

  400. 400
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    I’m IT

    Do you mean, “I’m IT!” as in, “I’m the only one in my department!”, or, “I’m IT!”, as in, “I am the entire Information Technology Department!” Either way, good luck?

  401. 401
    chigau (違う)

    &trade;

  402. 402
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Moments of Mormon Madness™

  403. 403
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Thank you, chigau.

    You are not only brilliant, but quick.

  404. 404
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    RBDC: My office door serves as a bulwark against rage and retaliation. I envy your serenity in the face of interruption.
     
    unrelated: a radio interviewee pronounced the word “buttressed” this morning as “butt rest”. I nearly lost control of my vehicle through a combination of confusion and giggling. I belong neither behind the wheel nor the radio dial.

  405. 405
    Pteryxx

    living with either ignoring it or discovering it that the stress, insomnia, nightmares, aches and pains and low grade depression was normal.

    Ogvorbis: of course I can’t find the essay I want right now, but it was about the concept of ‘fear of recovery’ because it entails realizing that many years, decades, maybe all of one’s life could have been as good as this if not for the abuse/abuser. It’s kind of awful in its own way to grasp the breadth of what’s been stolen. But that’s necessary to finally get out of the old familiar cage and start enjoying the healing. For what it’s worth, I try to remind myself when I’m thinking I don’t deserve some small pleasure or respect or other – it’s already paid for, many times over.

  406. 406
    cicely

    Tony:
    If you’ll compromise a bit and change that to No Bad-Tasting Tomatoes!, then we got a deal. That leave me free to eat good tomatoes, while allowing you to not eat any tomatoes at all, on the grounds that they taste bad to you.
    -
    *waving*, with optional *hugs*
    Hi, Jadehawk! Hi, Lynna!
    -
    Ogvorbis:
    Alt(at the same time as)0153
    -

  407. 407
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    Do you mean, “I’m IT!” as in, “I’m the only one in my department!”, or, “I’m IT!”, as in, “I am the entire Information Technology Department!” Either way, good luck?

    All of the above.

    RBDC: My office door serves as a bulwark against rage and retaliation. I envy your serenity in the face of interruption.

    I’m very Zen after nearly ten years here.

    Whatever the fuck that means.

  408. 408
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Why do U.S. citizens have shorter lives and poorer health in comparison to other wealthy nations?

     

    “The report examines the nature and strength of the research evidence on life expectancy and health in the United States, comparing U.S. data with statistics from 16 “peer” countries—other high-income democracies in western Europe, as well as Canada, Australia, and Japan. (See Table.) The panel relied on the most current data, and it also examined historical trend data beginning in the 1970s; most statistics in the report are from the late 1990s through 2008. The panel was struck by the gravity of its findings. For many years, Americans have been dying at younger ages than people in almost all other highincome countries. This disadvantage has been getting worse for three decades, especially among women. Not only are their lives shorter, but Americans also have a longstanding pattern of poorer health that is strikingly consistent and pervasive over the life course—at birth, during childhood and adolescence, for young and middle-aged adults, and for older adults.

    The U.S. health disadvantage spans many types of illness and injury. When compared with the average of peer countries, Americans as a group fare worse in at least nine health areas:

    infant mortality and low birth weight
    injuries and homicides
    adolescent pregnancy and sexually transmitted infections
    HIV and AIDS
    drug-related deaths
    obesity and diabetes
    heart disease
    chronic lung disease
    disability”

  409. 409
    chigau (違う)

    &reg;
    ®

    &ne;


    &amp;
    &
    /showoff

  410. 410
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    cicely:
    One of the benefits of being a god is not having to compromise. I adhere to my own dogma 100% of the time.
    Buuuuuut since I like you, this one time we can bend the rules :)

  411. 411
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    We Interrupt This Report About The NRA And School Shootings To Report A School Shooting. Seriously.

    Today, the NRA and Vice President Joe Biden met to discuss the way forward on reasonable gun control measures in the wake of the school shooting at Sandy Hook. In the middle of a CNN broadcast reporting on the subject, they had to cut away from the vice president’s press conference to report on an actual school shooting in Bakersfield, Calif. One victim is in critical condition, the other two are stable, and the perp is in custody. Are we allowed to talk about guns yet?

  412. 412
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Beatrice:
    Whoa!
    How did you find out about the 3 in 1 Shoop Trinity? It has been a closely guarded secret for the entire 10K years since I created everything to look like it is billions of years old (I wonder if this would look at all silly to theists reading this. If so, the irony.)

  413. 413
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Happy Birthday, Ogvorbis

  414. 414
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Is it time to talk about gun control yet? Fuck.

  415. 415
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    *confetti* and *cake* for Oggie.

    —-
    Aside: my Pandora has started giving me Lana Del Rey songs. I am continually going ಠ_ಠ at this. Especially at the song that has the opening lyrics of “My pussy tastes like cherry cola.” All I can think is GYNO, STAT!

  416. 416
    cicely

    Tony, you are not only my very favoritest shoop, you are also the most reasonable shoop I know. Consider ‘em bent.
    :)
    -

    We Interrupt This Report About The NRA And School Shootings To Report A School Shooting. Seriously.

    FFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCKKKKKKK.
    -

  417. 417
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    “My pussy tastes like cherry cola.”

    0_o

  418. 418
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Esteleth

    A friend recommended me Lana Del Rey, so I started listening to her songs. I actually like her voice, but the song lyrics! *shudder*
    Still, I like some songs, there’s something compelling about them/her.

  419. 419
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    tony#405
    The Spirit Level makes a pretty good case that economic inequality is a major contributing factor. Also the godawful mess that is our health insurance system. Like I said earlier, I have a choice between an HMO that requires me to find one of their doctors, or one that requires me to pay more out of pocket than I could possible afford. Of course part of the problem is that I don’t actually know what my new paychecks will look like yet, so I’m having real trouble bugeting for things. It looks like the best alternative is the former, but that means that L’s therapy gets set back months if not years while he tries to break in a new therapist.

  420. 420
    Lynna, OM

    *waving*, with optional *hugs*
    Hi, Jadehawk! Hi, Lynna!

    Hugs are not optional. Backatcha, cicely.

    I suppose you all have already heard that Paul Ryan did not change his stripes after losing the Vice Presidential race. Remember the good old days when he joined Todd Akin in redefining rape, fighting access to contraception and sponsoring personhood bills for fertilized human eggs? Well, he’s continuing on the same track. How do these doofuses even get elected, let alone selected as VP candidates? Personhood bills were defeated at the state level even in mindbogglingly regressive Mississippi last year. Such displays of rare reason cut no ice with Paul Ryan.

    Political pundits of the right think this may be a good move on Ryan’s part, a way to line him up for the 2016 Presidential race. Let’s show him, again, that he is bloody well wrong.
    Govtrack.us link.

  421. 421
    athyco

    Ogvorbis:

    But it feels so wrong. I have had so long (30-35 years (either not dealing with this shit or dealing with it (and I think I prefer dealing with it (though it meant lots more ups and downs) than not dealing with it (not that I really had a choice — when I wrote it as part of a comment, and then realized what I had written, there was really no choice but to deal with it))) living with either ignoring it or discovering it that the stress, insomnia, nightmares, aches and pains and low grade depression was normal.

    And I hadn’t (honest) noticed that my parenthetical writing style was back.

    I had my house built in 2001. It felt wrong to wake up with the light from an unusual direction. It felt wrong to carry my laundry in this direction to get to the washer. It felt wrong to have different–not scary, just different–night sounds as I fell asleep. But I had no problem with the idea that none of it was worse, and I did lose the feeling of wrong rather quickly. My son, who had never known a different home than the one I’d previously sold, took longer.

    You know you’ve made a big move in your head. You’re orienting. Feeling wrong while feeling more cheerful is the calmer continuation of the cry/smile. I think (opinion worth what you pay for it) that it’s as though you’ve leaped a chasm, landing safely, but two inches beyond the fall. The wrong/cheerful feeling is your recognition of a being in a still precarious spot but having the freedom to step forward.

    You may be the monarch of the multiple and embedded parentheses. I think I take the crown for mixed metaphors.

  422. 422
    athyco

    Pteryxx:

    Ogvorbis: of course I can’t find the essay I want right now, but it was about the concept of ‘fear of recovery’ because it entails realizing that many years, decades, maybe all of one’s life could have been as good as this if not for the abuse/abuser. It’s kind of awful in its own way to grasp the breadth of what’s been stolen.

    Oh, I want to read that, too!

  423. 423
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Dalillama:
    Were you referring to my #408?

  424. 424
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Rev:

    So you are IT it?

    Bummer.

    But, on the bright side, you don’t have a bunch of know-it-all IT techs making up their own solutions, right?

  425. 425
    mildlymagnificent

    Happy Birthday ogvorbis! confetti! sparkles!! ribbons!!! rainbows!!!!

    Same goes for a good night’s sleep and a movable neck. Presuming this wonderful state of affairs will occur more and more often, this is your perfect answer to queries about your mood. “I slept better the last couple of nights. Hope it continues.” should cover any and all probes about relaxation and smileyness.

  426. 426
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    I’ve only been working for less than a month and I already dread the sound of shoes in front of the office door. Blessed be office doors for offering that short moment to collect myself before some unreasonable request comes my way.

  427. 427
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    Look, *I* am supreme ruler of the universe and I say that salad must have green!

    Creme de menthe to the rescue!

  428. 428
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Azkyroth:
    Ewwwww.
    Howzabout some seaweed salad (wait, that can’t be a salad, there’s no lettuce-like product in it) or edamame?

    Oooooh, I haven’t had edamame in a while. Nice and warm in the pod with a touch of salt. NOM NOM. I could eat that at the movies along with popcorn, nachos, and a hot dog.

  429. 429
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    I wonder if anyone has come up with a cephalopod salad (glances around looking for PZ)…

  430. 430
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    So, I was thinking about how much rich, cheese-based food I wound up eating in the last couple months and was seriously thinking about improving my diet, and I noticed that I had some dried garbanzo beans in pantry that were past their “best by” date but not enormously so. I soaked them overnight the night before last and looked up some recipes. Then yesterday I was suddenly, randomly CRAVING earthy-legumes + spices. So I made this except not really.

    Changes include:
    1) double batch
    2) large rather than small red onions, sauteed lavender before adding anything else
    3) 1 large red bell pepper
    4) 1 can crushed tomatoes rather than the ones specified
    5) added two frozen 1/2 cup super-concentrated vegetable-offal-stock cubes
    6) and about 2-3 cups extra water, in connection with
    7) letting it simmer for an extra half hour to tenderize the garbanzo beans a bit further (probably could have used a bit more, but they’re into the edible range)
    8) about double the specified curry powder
    9) added a heaping teaspoon of garam masala
    10) forgot the raisins. Oh well.

    I think it could use some carrot. O.o

  431. 431
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    Tony#423
    Yes, yes I was. Sorry.

    Beatrice #418
    Roommate introduced me to Lana Del Ray a few months ago, and my esperience is identical.

  432. 432
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    “My pussy tastes like cherry cola.”

    O.o

    This reminds me: I recently had the epiphany that the phrase “great tastes that taste great together” is attention-getting because the phenomenon it describes is somewhat rare. >.>

  433. 433
    athyco

    Lynna:

    Compliance officers and the state’s liquor-control agency say they are warning owners that their employees are in violation of Utah law if they serve alcohol before diners actually request food. To back up the effort, authorities in undercover stings have issued citations to eateries for this type of violation, which in the past was rarely enforced.

    This is….blearrrgh. I think that if I owned a Utah restaurant, I’d have an amuse-bouche list so that diners request the one they want to be served with their first drink.

  434. 434
    rq

    Tuna salad on bread with lettuce.

    Sorry, am I interrupting? You can add tomatoes to that, if being sent to hell by the almighty shoop overloard is your thing.

    Giliell
    Sorry about your mum. :( And a kick in the general direction of asshole doctor. :( And *hugs* for you!
    Yeah, the 3-boy family seems more common here, too. I know 4. And one with 3 girls. So I don’t know what the big deal is, really. And I get the reverse – I get angry when people tell them not to cry because they’re boys. Honestly. They can cry if they like.
    And wear pink and red.
    (They get mad at you for letting her wear blue?? What?)

    +++

    I’m so nervous. The bank has until tomorrow to say no.
    I hope they don’t.
    Because we went to see the house today and I realized that yes, I do want to live there. Very much. 55 different types of rose in the garden. 55!!! And I’m going to learn all their names.

  435. 435
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Tony,

    Sure!

    Cook octopus for about an hour (depends on the size). Cut into chunks, add olive oil and lemon juice, salt and pepper
    Also optional: garlic and parsley

  436. 436
    dontpanic

    Re: misgendering …

    About 20-25 years ago, in my mid-20′s, I stopped shaving my upper lip because I got tired of sitting down to dinner w/ my wife at a restaurant and having the waitstaff say “What can I get you ladies”. I wasn’t particularly put out by that (mildly amused, never angry), but generally after that we’d get crappy service because the person would be so embarrassed that they’d give us short shrift. Actually it still happens occasionally — it’s weird: my hair is longish, but not real long; I’m not wearing anything particularly classified as traditionally “feminine”.

  437. 437
    cicely

    55…types…of roses…..
    *sigh*
    Once upon a time, I wanted to grow roses—nothing fancy, just the base-line, 5-petalled, normal-sized blossoms, with scent; which turned out to be hard to find—for my own, sinister, SCA-related porpoises. I sent away for one. It arrived festooned with aphids, and completely failed to flourish.
    -

  438. 438
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    rq:

    You can add tomatoes to that, if being sent to hell by the almighty shoop overloard is your thing.

    You really need to read my Holy Book. Shoopitology. In it, you will see that although I created everything, I did not create a heaven or hell. Such abominable concepts are beneath me. When you die, you die, and are absorbed back into the universal shoop essence.
    You can purchase Shoopitology on Amazon.com for the low, low price of 8 easy installments of $49.99.

    —-
    Unrelated to the above (much), I really wish prices were rounded up to the nearest dollar, or quarter. I *hate* the perception that oooh, if it’s $24.99 it is cheaper than $25. Yeah, technically it is, but that’s such an infinitesimal difference as to be nonexistent.

  439. 439
    rq

    Tony
    I don’t read. I await a prophet who can interpret the Word correctly, especially if it’s all written in some strange shoop language.

    (I also abhor almost-prices. Because, honestly, it only makes a difference when you’re buying a hundred of something, and even then, that difference buys you… well, nothing. And I hate it when people are estimating prices (Husband does this) and it’s 2.99 and he’s all like… So that’s twwwoooo… and I want to yell, NO IT’S THREE, dammit!, which I usually do.)

    cicely
    Yes, 55. I have no idea how I’ll take care of them all, but apparently they love the place and are flourishing. Can’t tell at the moment, it’s all under about 6 inches of snow, but I suppose I’ll take their word for it! Photos in summer/fall, when they’re in bloom. With names attached.
    (Whatever happened to your evil porpoises? Did a nasty cephalopod, now in Beatrice’s salad, eat them all up?)

  440. 440
    Steven Brown: Man of Mediocrity

    Hi guys,

    I’m just wondering if someone can clarify something for me:
    In the post about Louie Giglio StevoR made a comment about Jeremiah Wright and was told not to use racists dog-whistles.
    I’ve never even heard of Wright prior to this and looking at the meaning of dog-whistle in that context I can see why I missed it. I’m just hoping someone can explain what it was about the comment that tipped them off.

    I’m asking because after reading what I can find about dog-whistle politics I still can’t figure it out.
    I’m particularly interested in this kind of racism because, in my limited experience as a white male, it seems that subtle, subconscious racism is the most common type here in NZ and I’d like to be better at spotting it and pulling people up on it.

  441. 441
    dianne

    I really wish prices were rounded up to the nearest dollar, or quarter

    I agree. I actually find pennies pretty useless and wish they’d go away altogether. What’s the point of them?

    While we’re on the subject, I wish stores in the US would list the price that they intend to charge, i.e. the price with tax. How are you supposed to know whether you have enough money to buy something if they’re all coy about the actual cost to take it out of the store?

  442. 442
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Wow.
    I have never seen someone tattooed from head to toe.

    Speaking of tattoos, it would be nice if people would come to stop judging those who have them. For instance, at the resort I currently work at, the owner will fire you on the spot if you have an exposed tattoo. I have three-1 on each arm (though they are above short sleeve level) and one on my upper back. I suspect it is because he wants to maintain a more conservative image, and tattoos have a stigma among many conservatives.

  443. 443
    cicely

    rq, my Sinister Porpoises died the Death of Not Having Any Fucking Rose Blossoms. There would have been alcohol involved. And crystalised honey. (Though not at the some time.)
    -

  444. 444
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    rq,

    (I also abhor almost-prices. Because, honestly, it only makes a difference when you’re buying a hundred of something, and even then, that difference buys you… well, nothing. And I hate it when people are estimating prices (Husband mum does this) and it’s 2.99 and he’s all like… So that’s twwwoooo… and I want to yell, NO IT’S THREE, dammit!, which I usually do.)

    Yes

  445. 445
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    dianne:
    I am *right* there with you.

    ****

    stevenbrown:
    I do not have an answer for you (I’m sure someone will though).
    I wanted to mention that I’m very happy that you are asking the question in the first place. Instead of remaining comfy in your privilege, you’re attempting to learn more about the subtle forms of racism around you. I find that commendable.

  446. 446
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Since I probably won’t be commenting until tomorrow night… HAPPY BIRTHDAY, Ogvorbis!
    I hope you have a nice time with your family, and that the food is as good as expected.

  447. 447
    RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospital

    http://www.upworthy.com/the-most-reasonable-gay-marriage-debate-ive-ever-seen

    I don’t know if it’d be better to post this here or Thunderdome, but fuck me that video made me angry, and if I’m this mad from a 5 minute trailer I shouldn’t see the whole film.

  448. 448
    Inaji

    StevenBrown:

    I’m just wondering if someone can clarify something for me:
    In the post about Louie Giglio StevoR made a comment about Jeremiah Wright and was told not to use racists dog-whistles.

    You might wish to do some reading in Thunderdome, starting here, then scrolling down. All the info you could care for and then some.

  449. 449
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Stevenbrown, decrying Jeremiah Wright is usually code for “I don’t like PoC who are angry, especially angry in ways that make me uncomfortable.”

  450. 450
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    The men accused of raping and murdering a 23-year-old physiotherapy student in Delhi last month were tortured by police after their arrests, their lawyer claims.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/10/delhi-gang-rape-accused-claim-torture

    If true, I worry that this will be an attempt to lessen the impact of their horrendous murder/rape.

    ****

    The conservative women’s group the Independent Women’s Forum says that a ban on high-capacity magazines would hurt a woman’s ability to fight back against potential attackers.

    In a statement, IWF senior fellow Anna Rittgers suggested that by banning high-capacity magazines and semiautomatic weapons, women will not be able to fight back. ”It often takes several shots to stop one attacker,” Rittgers writes. “If the maximum magazine capacity is 10 (or if all semiautomatic handguns are banned, but 6 shot revolvers remain), and a woman in danger has to stop and reload her weapon while trying to protect her children (who are likely hysterical at this point), it gives the bad guy an opportunity to react–potentially fatally.”
    http://www.salon.com/2013/01/10/conservative_womens_group_gun_control_hurts_womens_self_defense/

    Now people are arguing that high capacity magazines and semiautomatic weapons are necessary for people to own? Really? Because a handgun or shotgun aren’t enough??!! What, are they trying to kill them really, really dead? These aren’t fucking Aliens we’re talking about. They’re human beings. I’ve never been shot, but I imagine it is extremely painful being shot. I wonder how a criminal could continue their activity after they’ve been shot *once*.

  451. 451
    strange gods before me ॐ

    Since this is the Lounge, I’ll discuss the general issue without discussing the person who brought up Wright in the first place.

    Caine links to the place for discussing the person.

    I’m just hoping someone can explain what it was about the comment that tipped them off.

    Living in the USA and paying attention to the debate about Wright half a decade ago, I was attuned to hear the whistle in a way that I might not be if I encountered a dogwhistle from New Zealand politics. That’s all, and that’s why you wouldn’t necessarily notice it; effective dogwhistles are tuned such that they only stand out to some segments of a local population.

    Already knowing that it is a dogwhistle, the tip-off for what does it mean in this particular instance was that the thread just wasn’t about Wright, and so there was no reason to bring up Wright except to take a racial dig at Obama.

  452. 452
    Nick Gotts

    Tony@408: The Equality Trust basic leaflet with graph.

  453. 453
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    dianne and Tony

    While we’re on the subject, I wish stores in the US would list the price that they intend to charge, i.e. the price with tax.

    It is my understanding that it is actually illegal for them to do this, although I cannot fathom why this should be the case. Oregon hasn’t got one, though, so I don’t have to deal with it.

  454. 454
    Nick Gotts

    I wonder how a criminal could continue their activity after they’ve been shot *once*. – Tony the Queer Shoop

    You obviously don’t watch enough action movies.

  455. 455
    opposablethumbs

    I always round up the almost-prices, often out loud to staff – not to be offensive, just doing the mental arithmetic to tot up the total in my head, for example, and check I’ve got it right. They often look a little bemused at the fact that “6.95″ gets pronounced “seven” :).
    .
    .
    Giliell, my sympathies for the situation with your mother. Keeping my tentacles crossed; and hoping you are OK and getting support from OH and from friends.
    .
    .
    Hey, it’s practically tomorrow and it already is tomorrow in lots of places so –
    HAPPY BIRTHDAY OGVORBIS!!!!!!!!!!!!! Confetti and streamers and single malt scotch and gastronomic delights and CAKE, with conga rats ululating all over the place. I hope you have a lovely dream-free night and a wonderful day!

  456. 456
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    Plus asshole doctor who said she had still alcohol hidden in the hospital and that was why she wasn’t getting better. She hasn’t been able to leave the hospital for more than a week, does he think we bring it as a gift?
    Asshole.

    Fuck that noise.

    I pretty much collapsed psychologically a few years ago, at least briefly, after having what I considered to be my best friend at the time announce (in the middle of an extensive, random, racing-thoughtsy “I’m ending our friendship and here’s why” rant), that my then-wifes alcoholism was basically my fault. What the fuck IS it with people? :/

  457. 457
    rq

    Yup, it’s Ogvorbis-birthday! :) *confetti! scotch! cake! candles! streamers!* Three cheers for Ogvorbis!

  458. 458
    Steven Brown: Man of Mediocrity

    Thanks for the info. I’ll go read in the Thunderdome.

    @Tony: Well I have this place to thank for waking up to the fact that just because I might not have conscious biases against people that doesn’t mean that I’m not privileged due to my hetro-white-male status.
    It seems to be easy for many in NZ to ignore the racism we have here because it’s ‘not as bad’ as the US or Australia and the Maori are ‘lucky’ compared to the indigenous people of other countries.
    Which makes me think they’re missing the point.

  459. 459
  460. 460
    Inaji

    StevenBrown:

    Which makes me think they’re missing the point.

    Pretty much. :D

  461. 461
    strange gods before me ॐ

    Tony,

    I’ll try doing this again without the mouseover text that didn’t work on your phone:

    Picture a handgun. Get as clear an image as possible in your mind. Let me know when you’ve done it.

  462. 462
    Nick Gotts

    Talking of tattoos:
    Wet Nuns: Heavens below

    The drummer’s my nephew.

  463. 463
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Sgbm:
    Done.

  464. 464
    x

    @RevBDC:

    That reminds me of my youth in the Willamette Valley, when they used to do a lot of field burning after harvesting the grass seed. There would be floating burnt pieces of grass in the air, little black twists, more or less snowing a black snow on things. You would open brand new containers of food, and yes, the grass ash would be in there.

  465. 465
    Steven Brown: Man of Mediocrity

    @sgbmॐ:
    I’d found a couple of those. But thanks for the others.

  466. 466
    strange gods before me ॐ

    Tony, here’s what the mouseover text was:

    Did you picture a revolver?

    If not, then you imagined a semi-automatic handgun.

    So here’s why, if banning guns generally is unlikely, banning semi-automatics is almost equally unlikely: semi-automatics are what lots of people think of when they think of a ‘normal gun’.

    There isn’t going to be widespread public support for banning something that is so common and considered normal.

  467. 467
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Interesting. I don’t know my guns at all, so I had to look up which one I was visualizing. It wasn’t a revolver. It was a chrome semi automatic pistol.
    Thanks for the [depressing] insight.

  468. 468
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Happy Birthday ogvorbis! confetti! sparkles!! ribbons!!! rainbows!!!!

    CongaRats to Ogvorbis. The Pullet Patrol sprung for a sheet cake big enough for the blog, and had a working model of steam train engine added for realism. Then they wanted to power the little engine with aged grog. Finally convinced them it was a small electric device, then they wanted the generator powered with aged grog. They have the original one-track-minds…;)

  469. 469
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Nerd:

    Can we hold the train? Seriously. The machinists oil used in model trains can taint a cake to the point that it t’ain’t edible.

    Not that I know that from personal experience.

  470. 470
    Sarahface, who is trying to break the lurking habit

    On not paying with pennies: IIRC, the last time I was in Australia I found out that they have a system like this – they got rid of 1- & 2-cent coins, and so if something was, say, AU$5.96 or $5.97, it would be rounded down to $5.95, but $5.98 and $5.99 would be rounded up to $6. (If you pay by card, though, you pay the exact amount.) It made so much sense to me; I wish it could be introduced in other countries.

  471. 471
    Steven Brown: Man of Mediocrity

    @Sarahface: We’ve got a similar thing here in NZ. Smallest coin is the 10c coin.

  472. 472
    rorschach

    It made so much sense to me; I wish it could be introduced in other countries.

    And yet I still constantly have a wallet full of useless 5, 10, 20 and 50c coins on me, let alone the ones in the big barrel at home. Going card-only can not come soon enough, if you ask me.

  473. 473
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    ..don’t they have donation jars?

  474. 474
    carlie

    Jadehawk! Lynna! Oggie’s parentheses! RahXephon! Sarahface!

    Do you mean, “I’m IT!” as in, “I’m the only one in my department!”, or, “I’m IT!”, as in, “I am the entire Information Technology Department!”

    Or IT as in a giant pulsating brain on Camazotz.

    For what it’s worth, I try to remind myself when I’m thinking I don’t deserve some small pleasure or respect or other – it’s already paid for, many times over.

    That’s beautiful.

    cicely – we have a weedy old-fashioned rosebush (if you can call it that, I think it’s a rhizomatous iceberg that wants to take over the yard) that smells just exactly like you expect roses to smell like – if you remind me in the late spring I can dig some up and mail to you to see if it will take. The stuff is pretty hardy, but also does have the teeny painful-as-fuck and hard to avoid type of prickers.

    I *hate* the perception that oooh, if it’s $24.99 it is cheaper than $25. Yeah, technically it is, but that’s such an infinitesimal difference as to be nonexistent.

    True, but all the market research says that people absolutely respond to it, even when they know better.

  475. 475
    x

    Black IPA report: Clipper City Black Cannon (name a variant of “Loose Cannon”, their IPA). Quite good.

    Firestone Black Rye IPA: Not Refrigerated At This Time.

    Note, I solved the “problem” by getting 1) Sixpack of Black Cannon and 2) 22oz of Firestone.

    I used to love getting the Rye ale on tap at the Big Time in Seattle. Actually, I still love it when it happens, when I visit that wet city.

  476. 476
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    Had the Firestone Wookey Jack black rye ipa tonight. Good.

  477. 477
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    I was in my boss’s office today. He wanted to show me something on the Yellowstone website. So he typed in “SEARCH.COM” on the url. When that came up, he typed “GOOGLE” on the search line. When that came up, he clicked on Google.com and, when that came up, he typed in “WWW.NPS.GOV/YELL” on the search line (which is the url for Yellowstone’s website. And he still couldn’t find what he wanted to show me on the NPS’s Yellowstone website. This took ten minutes.

    I will never have those ten minutes back.

    Ever.

    (Sorry there were no parentheticals (I have noticed a difference in my writing (Is it really that obvious?)))

  478. 478
    Inaji

    Ogvorbis:

    I will never have those ten minutes back.

    Ever.

    Nor the brain cells which jumped ship in disbelief that “this person is my boss.” Yikes.

  479. 479
    carlie

    Oggie,
    My jaw is on the floor. If you show him how to use bookmarks, will you get a raise?

  480. 480
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    carlie:

    I work for the federal government. We don’t do raises.

    G’night, all.

  481. 481
    Markita Lynda—threadrupt

    Caine, could you wrap Vasco up in a handkerchief and then give him the drops? We sometimes have to wrap a cat in a towel for some procedures.

  482. 482
    cicely

    carlie–I’ll try to remember, though these days, I’ll have to put it in a pot (’cause if I get down on the ground to mess with it, it’ll take a crane to get me back up).
    -

  483. 483
    Inaji

    Markita Lynda, no, that wouldn’t do the trick. The version of that for rats is to use the sort of bandage wrap which sticks to itself – and when you do that, you have to bind the whole rat. That’s a huge fuckin’ procedure in and of itself. Not worth it unless you’re having the fun of administering an enema the first time around.

    Vasco is cooperative enough, he just has the same blink response that people do. His eye is looking *much* better.

  484. 484
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    HAPPY BIRTHDAY OGVORBIS!!!!!

    You should have said sooner, I’d have sent you a snazzy hat like I did for Tony’s birthday. :) Not too late though!

  485. 485
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Can we hold the train? Seriously. The machinists oil used in model trains can taint a cake to the point that it t’ain’t edible.

    4 mil LDPE with an absorbent layer under the train. Almost up to cGMP.

  486. 486
    Markita Lynda—threadrupt

    Oh, happy birthday, Ogvorbis! May your year be filled with love and happiness.

  487. 487
    Markita Lynda—threadrupt

    chigau, I don’t know about your cats but my cats appear to have aerodynamic hair, or at least aerostatic. Every morning, there’ a fine layer of cat hair in the bathtub. Of course, maybe they just play in it when I’m not looking. One of them has crinkled hair that floats about indefinitely. It’s just a benefit of having cats: added plush or protein, as the case may be.

  488. 488
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    4 mil LDPE with an absorbent layer under the train. Almost up to cGMP.

    Does it meet EIEIO specs?

  489. 489
    Inaji

    Godsdamn, the *gurgle* *glomp* *glomp* *glooooomp* *gurgle* keeps freaking me out when go into the front rooms. I’m going to have to remind Mister to please place fermenting products downstairs.

  490. 490
    AJ Milne

    … I’m going to have to remind Mister to please place fermenting products downstairs.

    Heh. The sound effects, they take me back. Used to brew my own. Though it’s been quite some years, now.

    … now that you mention it, in a dark room, apart from the ‘why is there something gurgling to itself in that closet’ startle factor, it might put you in mind of the lab sets in old B&W horror movies. Unsettlingly biotic. There’s definitely something aliiiiive in there, between the scent and the gurgle…

    And y’know, it totally is gurgle gurgle gloomp. That is so the sound. I guess probably because a larger venting is unlikely to be followed by another immediately… Still. Perfectly evocative.

    Possibly related: my favourite (heck, really only place, these days) place is a brewpub. I’m not sure if that’s partly nostalgia.

  491. 491
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Paul Fidalgo has posted some crap about how Sam Harris isn’t supporting the NRA. He also talks about how good old Harris isn’t racist. He has some blinders on big time. How the hell can anyone claim Harris isn’t racist when the guy advocates racial profiling? And Harris agrees wirh the NRA. He wants more guns. Damn. Paul said he has read a lot of Sam’s writing, but I do not think he understood some of it.

  492. 492
    Inaji

    AJ:

    Unsettlingly biotic. There’s definitely something aliiiiive in there, between the scent and the gurgle…

    Yes, to all that. I don’t normally mind it, but I keep forgetting it’s in the front room, so it’s been freaking me out every night I wander out there. It sounds like something in an R.L. Stine book come to life, and it’s lurching to get you…

  493. 493
    AJ Milne

    …It sounds like something in an R.L. Stine book come to life, and it’s lurching to get you…

    Come to think of it, I made a stout once that kinda did

    Well, it flowed more than lurched. Tho’, being a stout, there was some lurching-like movement. Apparently because somehow a froth of probably mostly hops built up and plugged the outlet long enough for significant enough pressure to build up… And then splat…

    I was sleeping very near it. Woke up thinking ‘Umm… gurgling… dripping… Burst pipe? Huge foundation leak? Wait… Damn, but does it ever smell of beer in here all of a sudden…’

    It actually wasn’t that terrible a mess, in the end, strangely enough; yes, it was many liters of inky black fermenting liquid, but it washed out of everything with surprisingly little drama.

    The impressive bit was the stuff that made it to the ceiling, dripping back down. I guess that was probably most of the noise.

  494. 494
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    Now I’m totally going to brew a batch of beer this weekend, thanks folks.

    Also, to Horde-source all of my decision-making… do I make my amplifier British green or do I go with Orange-style orange?

    Tony: Fidalgo was whining about that on Twitter too… “Oh, a poor, long-suffering rich white man is being DEMONIZED by the dirty fucking hippies again, they are INSANE for daring to say anything mean about him!” I’m sort of sick to tears about how they are almost a fucking parody of themselves at this point.

    If I have to hear one more person complain about how desperately we need the presence of every rich white conservative man we can get, and that we need to sacrifice our principles to keep those people onboard, or else atheism/skepticism/social justice will all disintegrate, I’m going to (redacted). If I have to reject my values so some asshole like Harris doesn’t get his goddamned fee-fees hurt, what good is it to have him around? What the fuck has Sam Harris ever done for me that I should give a shit about his idiot viewpoints?

  495. 495
    feralboy12

    Cat hair is actually its own life form, symbiotic with cats and capable of reproducing on its own, far from any cat.

  496. 496
    chigau (違う)

    …brew a batch of beer this weekend

    [emphasis added]
    I don’t think so, grasshopper.

  497. 497
    chigau (違う)

    my #496 was for IJoe.
    —–
    feralboy12 #495
    This principle also holds for my own hair which exists pretty much everywhere I have ever been.

  498. 498
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    chigau

    … what?

    I’m going to assume you mean to say that it isn’t going to be finished this weekend and not throw anything heavy at you.

  499. 499
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    Joe: I suggest black and red. But that’s my suggestion for everything. >.>

  500. 500
    chigau (違う)

    IJoe
    Yes.
    I was being wry.
    You may be starting a batch of beer this weekend but it won’t be over for a looong time.
    *gurgle* *glomp* *glomp* *glooooomp* *gurgle*

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