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Sep 20 2012

[Lounge #369]

This is the lounge. You can discuss anything you want, but you will do it kindly. Even baby dragons look superior.

Status: Heavily Moderated; Previous thread

740 comments

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  1. 1
    Stevarious, Public Health Problem

    Aaah! A dragon!

    Where’s my sword?

  2. 2
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Here, lizard, lizard, lizard.

    Anyone know if that particular lizard is oviparous or viviparous? The reason I ask? That is a big head compared to the body. If viviparous, ouch.

  3. 3
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    Where’s my axe?

    And by “axe” I mean “guitar” and I think I need two more of them. :)

  4. 4
    melody

    If you have Facebook, take a look at my pug’s pics. No cat lovers allowed! Am I allowed to say that in the Lounge? https://www.facebook.com/penelopethepug

  5. 5
    Portia

    Ogvorbis, thanks for the repair advice, it did make me laugh. About your story, I know it’s not *necessarily* a fire service/law enforcement mentality, but the doodbro-ness always seems to be at peak levels in those environments, in my experience. I applaud you speaking up and would be oh-so-grateful if a man would do so in a serious manner on many occasions of -isms.

    …now I need to dig around the fridge for a beer. Head cold be damned! Your recommendations are noted, Joe.

    Stevarious, here, have mine. Don’t mind the glowing.

  6. 6
    Nepenthe

    @Ogvorbis

    Beardies are oviparous. And they dance too.

  7. 7
    Stevarious, Public Health Problem

    Oh, thanks.

    *vwoom* *vwum *woo-woom*

    Is this… a light saber??

    Hey anyone know what a Swedish light saber sounds like?

    *Bjornnnn*

  8. 8
    Portia

    Stevarious, baZINGa

    Harness the power of the force, padawan…

    (True story, my sister named her son after a Star Wars character.)

  9. 9
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    I applaud you speaking up and would be oh-so-grateful if a man would do so in a serious manner on many occasions of -isms.

    I honestly would have said nothing two years ago. I may have even joined in. One of the casualties of Elevatorgate and the MRAgasm of sexism that is still with us was my willingness to let egregious speech go unchallenged. The Misogyny Wars have opened my eyes to objectification, silencing tactics, and the futility of silence.

    Beardies are oviparous. And they dance too.

    Ouch.

  10. 10
    douglaslm

    One of my favorite quotes:

    The Patrician took a sip of his beer. ‘I have told this to few people, gentlemen, and I suspect never will again, but one day when I was a young boy on holiday in Uberwald I was walking along the bank of a stream when I saw a mother otter with her cubs. A very endearing sight, I’m sure you will agree, and even as I watched, the mother otter dived into the water and came up with a plump salmon, which she subdued and dragged on to a half-submerged log. As she ate it, while of course it was still alive, the body split and I remember to this day the sweet pinkness of its roes as they spilled out, much to the delight of the baby otters who scrambled over themselves to feed on the delicacy. One of nature’s wonders, gentlemen: mother and children dining upon mother and children. And that’s when I first learned about evil. It is built in to the very nature of the universe. Every world spins in pain. If there is any kind of supreme being, I told myself, it is up to all of us to become his moral superior.’
    Terry Pratchett. Unseen Academicals

  11. 11
    ImaginesABeach

    I’ve never cared for beer. But…

    Back in my wild, misbegotten youth I had a casual relationship with a guy (these days, apparently the appropriate term is “friends with benefits”), and for whatever reason, he didn’t feel comfortable calling and saying, “hey, you wanna come over and fool around?” Whenever he was feeling frisky, he would call and say,”Wanna come over for a beer?” For several years after that, I got turned on by beer commercials (but I still never drank the stuff).

  12. 12
    Akira MacKenzie

    Stevarious @ 7

    Bjornnnn

    Actually, that’s the name for the… ahem… “personal massager” that they sell at Ikea. ;)

  13. 13
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    WARNING!!! FIRE STORY!!! FIRE STORY!!!

    (You have been warmed!)

    On Tuesday, I worked a half-shift (4:00pm to 4:00am (okay, a little more than a half-shift) and then slept (somewhat) for 6 hours (work to rest ratio requirement). I went through the demob process and departed by vehicle to Sacramento. I checked into the hotel, visited the bookstore across from the hotel, and had dinner at Panera (half a roast beef on Asiago cheese bread and a small soba noodle and shrimp salad) and also got a sandwich for the airplane flight the next day.

    There were two groups meeting in the restaurant. One was a crochet and knitting group (men and women, old and young). The other was a bible study group. Curiousity (or masochism) got the best of me and I sat near the bible study group. This is not a verbatim transcript of what I heard, but it is pretty damn close:

    Leader: Who is the enemy of God’s creation?

    Group: The deceiver/liar/Satan/devil.

    L: Why is he called the deceiver?

    Member of Group: He is the prince of lies.

    L: Correct. How does he lie?

    MoG: By blinding us to God’s reality that is all around us.

    For instance, Satan blinds evolutionists and places lies into their eyes. An evolutionist can look at a rock and claim it is older than the universe because Satan has placed lies in his eyes. They claim that charcoal in a rock shows that it was from an imaginary sea ten billion years old. [laughter]

    An evolutionist can look at a rock and claim it is a dinosaur and then create a false creature that could never have existed. They carve false bones out of rocks, convinced by the deceiver that it is a bone longer than a school bus. [laughter] A slightly different colour of rock and, boom, a whole new animal. An animal that only exists in the mind of Satan and the eyes of an evolutionist.

    What does this tell us? It tells us that we can never, ever, trust our eyes. The devil will put images there, even in the eyes of a child of God, even in the eyes of a believer. But we must never believe our eyes.

    Yesterday, I got a ticket for running a red light. The was green when I went through the intersection, but it was really red. Satan fooled me. I trusted my eyes and saw red where green was. God protected me and I didn’t hit another car and, after receiving my earthly punishment, I prayed to my God and thanked Him for His mercy and protection.

    =====

    The meeting was still going on as I finished my meal, picked up my movie sandwich and my book about Triassic vertebrate assemblages, and walked out. I stopped to admire some of the hook and needle work going on. Good stuff. And they were, at least, doing something more than mental masturbation.

    EnD FIRE STORY!!!

  14. 14
    Suido

    Woohoo! A campaign started by a gay amateur footy player has had real results.

    http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/gay-ads-to-air-on-afls-big-screens-20120920-269l3.html

    Alas, all the usual homophobic apologetic arguments are being said in the comments section, but I’m having fun swatting them.

    @douglaslm:

    After seeing me play netball, my girlfriend was kind enough to inform me that my running and jumping put her in mind of the Librarian leaping to catch the ball as goalkeeper. I took it as a compliment and challenged her to an arm wrestle. XD

    @Nepenthe

    Beardies are oviparous. And they dance too.

    Can confirm this is true. Wait, are you talking about men or lizards?

  15. 15
    jose

    Hi,
    I have been looking for a post about a early human fossil that creationists couldn’t make up their minds about whether it was just a human or just an ape. They always reject transitional fossils by dismissing them as one thing or the other, but with this one concretely they couldn’t reach a consensus. I thought it was funny because if they couldn’t agree on whether it was one thing or the other, that in itself was a good debate argument for its intermediate character.

    If somebody remembers this fossil or the post please let me know.

  16. 16
    Akira MacKenzie

    ImaginesABeach:

    Yeah, I can’t say that I’m fond of beer either. Most alcohol is too bitter for my taste. This spring at a local game convention I found a local micro-brew that doesn’t taste all that disgusting, but I can certainly live without it.

    The best booze I ever had was some homebrewed mead I drank at my best friend’s bachelor party. It was divine. It was flavored with orange and vanilla and you couldn’t even tell you were drinking alcohol… that is, until you felt its effects a few moments later.

    I will never taste it’s like again. :(

  17. 17
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    Stevarious:
    I understand completely. I dislike beer with the passion of a million collapsing stars.

    who the hell are you people

  18. 18
    ImaginesABeach

    I joined the local YMCA, and had my 1 hour session with a personal trainer yesterday to figure out what I’m supposed to do there (I’ve always said that if I had a religion, exercise would be against it). As we were walking to the table to start talking, the trainer said, “Did you know that it’s international talk like a pirate day” and because I had been here in the Lounge, I answered, “Arrr”. He said I was the first person he had asked that had been aware of it. I suspect he was a little surprised that a middle aged woman knew this.

  19. 19
  20. 20
    Portia

    One of the casualties of Elevatorgate and the MRAgasm of sexism that is still with us was my willingness to let egregious speech go unchallenged. The Misogyny Wars have opened my eyes to objectification, silencing tactics, and the futility of silence.

    *tear*
    This makes me so happy.

  21. 21
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Fuck. I completely missed ITLAPD. And, with three airplane flights, I had a perfect opportunity to use it: “Arrr. Prepare to be boarded! Arrr!”

  22. 22
    Stevarious, Public Health Problem

    who the hell are you people

    We’re here! We’re beer-queer! Get used to it!

  23. 23
    cicely

    Joe: I don’t like beer, either. Or bourbon.
    -

    It’s all very frustrating because I know that so many people would just die to have so much free excellent beer thrust their way but I have just never drunk a beer that was better than “I guess if I HAD to drink it I would, like if it was the only thing to drink.”

    Outta my head right now, Stevarious!

    Srsly, everything I’ve tried ranges from *gag! retch!* to meh. All the shootin’, what are it about?
    -
    Ogvorbis: Good job! (Talking about the security meeting part. I’m sure that you also acquitted yourself well on the stuff-on-fire part, but I think most people can figure out what’s wrong with that picture, and don’t need it explained.)
    -

    WHY THE FUCK IS JOHNNY DEPP IN THE 21 JUMP STREET MOVIE?!?!?!

    1) He has manymanymany fans…
    2) …who have money and watch movies.
    3) He was on the TV series of the same name…
    4) …and many of the aforementioned fans would certainly diss the movie noisily to all their friends if he wasn’t at least offered a part on the movie.

    IOW, the collision of nostalgia and the desire to make lotsa money.
    -
    -
    That is one snooty-lookin’ lizard. I’ll bet it only uses Grey Poupon™ on its bugs? smaller lizards? salads?
    -

  24. 24
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    Joe: I don’t like beer, either. Or bourbon.
    -

    It’s like I’m on Mars

    what the hell is going on

  25. 25
    Portia

    It’s ok, Rev., they are strange creatures, don’t mind them. Here, have a beer, calm your nerves.

  26. 26
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    It’s like I’m on Mars

    There is no alcohol on Mars. Considering the atmospheric pressure, the boiling point of water and alcohol would be so low that some good single malt with dab of water would boil away long before you could drink it. So this is definitely not Mars. Unless I am dreaming this abbey ale.

  27. 27
    McC2lhu doesn't want to know what you did there.

    Stevarious @7:

    Hey anyone know what a Swedish light saber sounds like?

    *Bjornnnn*

    Yeah, you can use it in your encounter vs. ABBA the Hutt.

  28. 28
    Jessa

    jose,

    Were you looking for something like this?

  29. 29
    Rev. BigDumbChimp
    Stevarious @7:

    Hey anyone know what a Swedish light saber sounds like?

    *Bjornnnn*

    Yeah, you can use it in your encounter vs. ABBA the Hutt.

    wow

  30. 30
    Portia

    Yeah, you can use it in your encounter vs. ABBA the Hutt.

    You are the punster I’ve always aspired to be.

  31. 31
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    “Don’t like beer”…

    Nope. Can’t digest it. You might as well say “… and then I ate seven ounces of dirt and washed it down with kerosene!”

  32. 32
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Yeah, you can use it in your encounter vs. ABBA the Hutt.

    Bad pun. No donut.

    You might as well say “… and then I ate seven ounces of dirt and washed it down with kerosene!”

    Oh. Coors Light.

  33. 33
    McC2lhu doesn't want to know what you did there.

    Sorry, should have been A

  34. 34
    McC2lhu doesn't want to know what you did there.

    Oops, freaked out on the buttonry there. That should have been:

    Sorry, should have been a ‘bad pun warning ahead’ sign on top of that post.

  35. 35
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Improbable Joe:

    What kind of dirt? The light and lime-y soil of the Coconino Plateau? The red dirt of Georgia? The salty sand of Death Valley? Loess? Potting soil?

    Yes, I really am that tired.

  36. 36
    Portia

    Don’t apologize for your gift, McC2lhu.

  37. 37
    Stevarious, Public Health Problem

    Outta my head right now, Stevarious!

    Srsly, everything I’ve tried ranges from *gag! retch!* to meh. All the shootin’, what are it about?

    I wonder if there’s an evolutionary psychologist handy who could tell us what challenges those poor cavemen faced to cause such a wide variance in beer-liking amongst modern humans?

    It’s like I’m on Mars

    what the hell is going on

    I am not my beerientation!

  38. 38
    Stevarious, Public Health Problem

    Yeah, you can use it in your encounter vs. ABBA the Hutt.

    That was… magical.

  39. 39
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    I’m heading for bed.

    Good night, all.

    Please note that, this fire, I added at least two fire stories. That appears to be my lot in life. It’s not a lot, but it’s a life.

  40. 40
    Portia

    Night, Og.

  41. 41
    Deborah

    from last thread

    @146 Joe What feels odd (about my reaction to 9/11) is that I never really felt like my world had changed. I wasn’t particularly surprised, and while I remember where I was and what I felt, I don’t mark it as a dividing line in my life. I suppose it seems logical to me, but when everyone else acts like it was this huge event in their lives, despite not knowing anyone personally affected, I feel like I missed a cue somewhere.

    @151 Portia Yay, someone else can benefit! I saved stuff to my cart on Amazon to find the best deals as I can.

    @180 Stevarious I find I like most everything alcoholic. Not sure if it’s related to growing up in a teetotaling home, or growing up extremely picky about taste and then deciding I liked a lot of stuff I didn’t think I did once I became an adult. But I like most everything. Beer is about the only thing I’m picky about – roommate bought something nasty tasting to cook oysters in for Oyster Rockefeller and I tried it and it tasted like vomit, I swear. He explained after thinking about it that he takes it under his tongue when he first takes a drink, to avoid tasting it. I tried it and sure enough, it wasn’t quite as nasty – but I didn’t think that was worth the the trouble. What he didn’t open up using for the oysters is still in the fridge I think.

    NEW THREAD

    @4 melody Those are adorable!!! Um, but I broke the rules. I’m a cat lover who likes pugs too?

    @9 Ogvorbis Then it hasn’t been for nothing, eh?

    @11 Imagines I have a friend who refers to sex as coloring, because she babysits a small child and is censoring her speech for the child’s benefit. But because she’s one of those people who can’t turn such things on and off based on company, she calls it coloring all the time. It’s very funny to hear her sitting in a bar talking to a guy she’s flirting with about coloring together.

    @13 Ogvorbis Wow. That’s stuff even the people I grew up around would say was nuts.

  42. 42
    AJ Milne

    There is no alcohol on Mars. Considering the atmospheric pressure, the boiling point of water and alcohol would be so low that some good single malt with dab of water would boil away long before you could drink it.

    Noted. Incompatible with scotch. No drinking scotch there. At. All.

    (/Checks off ‘not habitable’.)

  43. 43
    Deborah

    So I did like I said and looked up what local atheist groups were in my area, and then I signed up for their meetup thingie and went and met some at a local lounge/bar place. All day I was thinking about how I wasn’t sure I really wanted to go and maybe I should wait…for something. I even drove all the way down there (about 40 minutes from my house, because I live in a city) and thought about turning around and coming home.

    But I’m glad I went, social anxiety aside. People were very nice, they had a lot of new folks today for some reason (we are in the only six week period of the year when you can comfortably sit outside, and we were, so that might be part of it), and it was fun.

    It was also extremely weird. Atheism and religion being silly and/or stupid was often the topic with people talking quite firmly about these things, in the same tone and manner people use to talk about their religion when they are among friends. It was not anything I wouldn’t see written here, but it was just odd to hear it said aloud in public. The only person I can think of who has told me that they are an atheist that I know offline is one person who was a manager I had, and who was quiet about it, although she felt strongly about it.

    So I’m glad I went, hope I can make some friends and have my own social life separate from ex-boyfriend, and maybe see some more of the city I live in. :)

  44. 44
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    Ogvorbis: GO TO BED!!!!

    deborahbell: My uncle Joe, who was named after my grandfather the same way I was, worked in the World Trade Center, and didn’t die on 9/11 because he overslept and was late to work. And I’m STILL not batshit about it the way most people who have zero links to it have gotten. It didn’t change my life, and I knew someone directly affected by it… so what is everyone else’s excuse?

  45. 45
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Oh noes, I missed Oggie. :(

    ‘Night, Ogs.

    Rev:

    It’s like I’m on Mars

    what the hell is going on

    I don’t know, but I’m scared.

    Anyway, hello everyone! Today fucking sucked*. Let me tell you how much fun it is to drive for most of the day when you’re 8.5 months pregnant. And sit in boring ass insurance meetings for the two hours that you aren’t on the road.

    It’s also my 4 year wedding anniversary today, but since I was wicked late getting home, I only had enough energy to heat up some frozen pierogies before we got to work finishing up the nursery. But on the plus side DarkFetus now has her own room whenever she decides to show up.

    *Okay, on the Suck-O-Meter scale of zero to ten (zero being PUPPIES! and ten being the Zombie Apocalypse), probably about a 2.5.

  46. 46
    Portia

    Deborahbell – I’m so glad for you that you worked up your nerve and went to the meet up. I haven’t roused the courage myself, and moved out of the big city where there were lots. Bummer. But I’m glad that you had a good time and hope you get to go to more of them.

    Audley – Sorry for the suckage. Happy Anniversary! anyhow.

  47. 47
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Also in the plus column: I got a package from amblebury that was full of Peppy Chews! OM NOM NOM.

    Because of that, maybe my Suck-O-Meter score should be a 2.25. :p

  48. 48
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Thanks, Portia. :)

  49. 49
    Deborah

    @44 Joe I heard someone talk about it in a way that made a lot of sense. I can’t remember if I said this already or not. She said that a lot of people here had a belief that we were safe, in a bubble almost, that nothing bad could come from outside and hurt us. And 9/11 broke that down and changed the world for them, from a safe and happy place to a broken, fucked up scary place. The person who said this said it because when 9/11 happened, she was working with children who were already living scary fucked up lives (guns at school, dads with baseball bats at home), and she watched how they weren’t really affected the same way as the adults by the events. It made a lot of sense to me, and it fit me – I don’t believe in America the way most people do, and I lived in a scary world already.

    Or I’m just being too generous and everyone was just bristling like the stereotypical hick who has been told he’s not the biggest thing in the universe.

    @45 Dr. Audley Oh no!! I thought you were going to tell the boss hell no?

  50. 50
    Setár, Elvenkitty

    -runs around in super excited circles-

    Today I randomly poked around for some more historical stuff and managed to come across some really valuable information:

    First, when the area I live in was originally surveyed, roads were cut along the lines used as a basis — those roads are now major streets. The grid pattern remains unchanged, so on old maps the existing property lines will match up exactly with the major streets. This makes retracing the routes of old roads on current maps (as well as trying to follow them in modern times) very, very easy.

    Second, I found some a map that marks all the rail lines and when they were built. What’s more, the original map (the rail lines were digitally highlighted) is from 1916 meaning it includes Sumas Lake, which is also helpful. Problem is it’s too small for me to make out the writing or match up roads for the most part, so all I really have to judge by are the railroads and lake. Not much help, considering that the lake was drained in 1924 and one of the railroads abandoned in 1929.

    But still, -squee-

  51. 51
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Was Stephen Colbert hoggling on tonight’s show?

  52. 52
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    deborahbell,

    Maybe I never believed in a safe world, because I was talking about joining the Marines when I was 16 years old and a senior in high school. I never felt that bubble, and when I was on active duty I was part of an international exercise… the details of which might be classified “top secret”, come to think of it… and the point being that I have no illusions that peace is the normal state of thing.

    But my earlier point still stands. People say “we” when it comes to war, but the people who do the actual fighting are often a tiny percentage of the whole population. I’ve been an actual part of the “we” that gets sent to fight and die, and it is offensive to me when safe and secure civilians start using the word “we” about fighting wars, when they will never be part of the “we” that fights and dies in combat.

  53. 53
    Nutmeg

    [Possible TMI Alert]

    Bizarre PMS craving: orange juice. Seriously, body, WTF? I’m used to chocolate cravings, and occasionally chip cravings, but orange juice? These cravings have had me drinking it steadily for two days, even though I normally don’t drink juice at all. There’s no way I’m deficient in Vitamin C, so I’m mystified.

    [/TMI]

  54. 54
    ronsullivan

    Oh good; Og’s back! With fire stories! I love fire stories!

    Also beer, so more for me. I’ll stick with an Earth-flavored atmosphere, thanks.

    We’ve been clearing out a storage space that we can’t afford anymore, and lots of what we’re moving and dispersing is old magazines and books. Significant portions of that were magazines we’d saved because we were published in them; significant portions of that group don’t exist anymore. This is causing an odd sort of melancholy commingled with something like survivors’ guilt/relief.

    Also remembrance of income past.

    We were at Pastime Hardware in El Cerrito on Wednesday, and I noted with amusement that the staff there was observing ITLAPD. The checkout kid seems startled when this old fart joined in. Hell, I thought it WAS mostly old farts that still did that.

  55. 55
    terryg

    I honestly would have said nothing two years ago. I may have even joined in. One of the casualties of Elevatorgate and the MRAgasm of sexism that is still with us was my willingness to let egregious speech go unchallenged. The Misogyny Wars have opened my eyes to objectification, silencing tactics, and the futility of silence.

    me too. I cant believe what an asshole I was (OK, still am, just not in this area). I’ve offended a few people as a direct result, but they deserved it.

    there has been a minor downside though – opening my eyes and unblocking my ears has, oddly enough, allowed me to notice just how rampantly misogynistic our culture really is. pervasive is an understatement.

  56. 56
    Akira MacKenzie

    “The Misogyny Wars…”

    Do we get a PBS documentary with with a maudlin violin soundtrack and an all-star cast narrating various FTB posts?

    I’d suggest Jason Robards for PZ if he weren’t busy being dead.

    ;)

  57. 57
    Stevarious, Public Health Problem

    there has been a minor downside though –opening my eyes and unblocking my ears has, oddly enough, allowed me to notice just how rampantly misogynistic our culture really is. pervasive is an understatement.

    You ain’t kidding on that one. I can’t believe I let my friend talk me into going to this bar. No one is buying me drinks (as if) and hearing these drunken douchetools talk about every women in this bar like they were pieces of meat or blow up dolls while they sit and preetend they can’t here is kinda making me naseous.

    My social anxiety won’t let me say anything but my guilt won’t let me just leave and so I guess I’m just going to vent here? Dammit. Life sure was easier when I was an asshole.

    Oh. Now we’re on to gay slurs. Lovely. Why did I come here?

  58. 58
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    I’ve actually been told I’m I better actor than Jason Robards… :) or at least I was a better Marcus Brutus than he was, although I understand that he was eyebrows-deep in addiction when that movie was filmed.

  59. 59
    trinioler

    Okay.

    I’m okay. Symptoms disappeared just before I saw the doc. He has no idea what happened.

    Suggested I knock off the caffeine. This is going to hurt.

  60. 60
    Ingdigo Jump

    But my earlier point still stands. People say “we” when it comes to war, but the people who do the actual fighting are often a tiny percentage of the whole population. I’ve been an actual part of the “we” that gets sent to fight and die, and it is offensive to me when safe and secure civilians start using the word “we” about fighting wars, when they will never be part of the “we” that fights and dies in combat.

    Yes but they bought the support our troops magnets! See, everyone is in it together and doing their part!

  61. 61
    Hekuni Cat, MQG

    Caine:

    Hekuni Cat, thank you. The encouragement is nice and needed. ♥

    Very glad I could help. Also, Rattitude is truly delightful.

    Farewell, rorschach and thank you for fighting the misogynists during the past year.

    ogvorbis, welcome back.

    McC2lhu, I’m sorry for your loss. *hugs*

    Audley, Happy Anniversary! and *hugs*

  62. 62
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    Yes but they bought the support our troops magnets! See, everyone is in it together and doing their part!

    Yeah! And Mitt Romney supported the draft while dodging it in France, but he’s not a draft dodger because he’s seen Platoon 16 times on his million-dollar campaign tour bus! And his kids are all honorary war heroes because they’ve watched all of Sylvester Stallone’s movies at least twice! Or… something?

    You know… As a veteran I think I sold enough of my life for four years that I think my words on the subject get a tiny little bit of extra credit. Not a whole bunch, mind you. But when I hear people(and their kids) who actively avoided service try to talk tough about starting more wars, I’m seriously unimpressed. It is really easy to talk tough when it is someone else’s ass on the line, right? At least when I was a young ignorant war-monger asshole, I had a fair shot at putting my own body in the line of fire. These older ignorant war-monger assholes have nothing to lose when they talk tough.

  63. 63
    Setár, Elvenkitty

    Arglebargle. There is literally no debating conservatives — the pet conservative I was dealing with last night flounced after I pulled the rug out from under their little fairy-tale construct of history, whining about how they’re not a conservative and how I was just insulting them.

    How the fuck can a political ideology based on a just-world fairytale be legitimate?

  64. 64
    Ingdigo Jump

    @Improbable joe

    was was the line from Shrek? “Some of you may die, but that is a risk I am willing to take”

  65. 65
    Rey Fox

    WHY THE FUCK IS JOHNNY DEPP IN THE 21 JUMP STREET MOVIE?!?!?!

    Why wouldn’t he be?

    was was the line from Shrek? “Some of you may die, but that is a risk I am willing to take”

    Sounds like Zapp Brannigan.

  66. 66
    Setár, Elvenkitty

    WHY THE FUCK IS JOHNNY DEPP IN THE 21 JUMP STREET MOVIE?!?!?!

    He was? I couldn’t stand that movie, what I saw of it put it directly in the “Male Gaze Party” set which is a set of films that are utterly and hatefully horrible in the lengths to which they glorify toxic-masculine crap.

  67. 67
    Setár, Elvenkitty

    But when I hear people(and their kids) who actively avoided service try to talk tough about starting more wars, I’m seriously unimpressed.

    You just made me put on War Pigs =D

  68. 68
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    Ing, that certainly sounds like “courage, right-wing style.”

    I know I make people angry when I say bad things about philosophy/philosophers, and I know I’m expressing myself wrong… but Sam Harris gets to be a philosopher? Really? Harris keeps making arguments that blow up in his face. In a real discipline, shit blowing up in your face would get you kicked out eventually. In philosophy? I guess not?

  69. 69
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    Setár,

    I have to say that I actually sort of liked 21 Jump Street without making any judgment on its gender politics, since I wasn’t paying that much attention. I liked that it flipped the jock/nerd popularity thing on its ear, and was self-aware enough to declare its own concept to be really stupid.

  70. 70
    Ingdigo Jump

    Sounds like Zapp Brannigan.

    No no no, Zapp’s was “Stop dying you COWARDS!”

    @Joe

    Well his philosophy is a BA, not a BS for a reason….even though it involves a lot of BS

  71. 71
    lofgren

    Hey guys,

    I have a story that I have to share with somebody, but there is nobody I can really tell and it seems appropriate here. (Don’t worry, it’s happy.)

    I went to visit my grandmother for a few days earlier this month and my aunt came over for dinner. After dinner, my grandmother went to bed and my aunt and I were cleaning up.

    We got to talking about life the universe and everything, which is pretty uncommon for us. Usually we keep things very surface, because she does not get along with my mother and neither of us wants to upset the other.

    As we were talking, she sort-of suddenly – in retrospect, there was a lead up, though I didn’t sense it at the time – says to me, “So you know, I have to thank you, kind of.”

    Me, a little in shock: “Uh oh. What did I do this time?”

    “Well,” she says, “You know I have been a Catholic all my life. That’s how I was raised, and I believed it, too. I believed it very much. But recently I’ve come to accept that, well, I really don’t believe any of it anymore. I mean, if there is a God, or whatever, it sure doesn’t much look like it, and what would it matter anyway? We all have to solve our own problems, and expecting God to help you is just a distraction.”

    This is a bit puzzling to me. I’m glad she has come to this realization, because that’s what I believe too. My parents left the Catholic church shortly after I was born, when they decided that they didn’t want to raise me in a world of magic and medieval superstition, and most of my other aunts and uncles have followed. Of my twelve cousins, only two were raised with religion, and one of those was Unitarian and the other was this aunt’s daughter.

    But as I said, she and I tend to keep our conversations very surface-level. We don’t usually talk about the daily news, let alone religion. I didn’t even know that she knew that I self-identify atheist. (While my parents raised me without religion, they prefer to keep their own views ambiguous. Their position is that it’s nobody’s business but their own what they believe about God. The closest we have ever come to discussing it was when my Dad let me go on a boating trip with a friend’s Catholic youth group. A terse discussion about religion ended with, “Well, I guess your mother and I both believe that there is something out there. That’s about as much as I can say about it, though.” This is the last time I ever talked to my parents about their beliefs, and the last time anybody in my family thought to ask about mine.)

    So I said, drying a plate, “Um, OK. I mean, I agree… but I’m not sure what I had to do with this.”

    She explains, “Well, a few Thanksgivings ago you and I were talking about religion, and you kept asking me ‘But how do you know that? But how do you know that?’ over and over again. I thought, ‘Who the hell does this kid think he is? A few months in college and he thinks he’s an expert on everything.’” (This was a fair criticism of me as a freshman in college.) “I was really annoyed, but it kept bothering me. I kept repeating it in my mind. ‘How do I know this? Am I sure? What if I’m wrong?’ I think I stopped believing a long time ago, but I just didn’t know how to stop going through the motions. All my friends were at church. I’ve been going every Sunday I could spare since I was a baby. I finally had to stop because I realized hey, this crap isn’t just wrong. It’s actually really harmful. So, I guess, thanks for being kind of a pest.”

    At this point I am really flabbergasted. This woman who has been my wacky religious aunt my whole life has come around to atheism, and in pretty much the best possible way – self doubt. I think that’s healthier than being convinced through argument or simply losing faith. She actually analyzed her own thought process and realized that there were things she thought she knew, but she could not prove, even to herself. And as the night went on, she said she had found all kinds of assumptions to apply this new mantra to. In some cases, she had come to conclusions that I disagreed with, but she is actually investigating the world to discover how it is rather than letting somebody else tell her how it should be. (Her words.)

    But what really blew my mind was that the conversation she referred to, the one that happened when I was home for Thanksgiving my freshman year of college, happened 13 years ago. I wasn’t looking for converts. I was just asking questions. I didn’t even know that I was an atheist then.

    So… keep it up guys. Keep asking questions. Out loud. To everybody. Plant the seed of inquiry wherever you go. Apparently – and this is as shocking to me as anything else – it actually works.

  72. 72
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    FYI, the strange looking people in The Lounge are the pea & beer lovers, not the Apeaists and Abeerists.

  73. 73
    chigau (違う)

    I’m still catching up but I must say to Ogvorbis, “I adore you.”
    http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/09/16/lounge-368/comment-page-2/#comment-460094

  74. 74
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    Ok so all the beer is being shipped to Venus since that’s where all the womenz are..
    ****
    Deborahbell:
    Just when I was starting to like ya, you bring up the dreaded OYSTER. Let me make it clear- I will devour PEAS before I will consume any sort of oyster (I’ve tried raw and fried…ick. I cringe at the thought). In fact I think I’d eat almost anything on my not-insignificant-list o food I don’t like before an oyster. And drink down a beer.

  75. 75
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    Deborahbell:
    Congrats on working up the nerve to go to the atheist meeting!
    I know what you mean about social anxiety. One of the members of the Harvard humanists-James croft, iirc-was in Mobile, AL a few weeks back and I wanted to go–just not alone. Im not petrified of doing things alone, but the feeling I get is in the same ballpark. I can go to the mall or movies or grocery store alone and hey, no big deal. But to go somewhere completely unfamiliar with no one I know scares me shitless. That’s probably one of the reasons I haven’t moved out of pensacola. It’s one of the reasons I haven’t been on a cruise. For me to be social, I really almost need a human security blanket…someone I know fairly well (more than an acquaintance). I’ve tried before to go to a gay bar in another city and I wasted my time. I just sat at the bar too nervous to walk around or even get on the dancefloor-and I love to dance. At home? Pshaw! No big deal. That’s largely due to knowing so many people in many of the bars. I wish I knew what was wrong with me.

  76. 76
    chigau (違う)

    still not caught up but this McC2lhu / Stevarious tag-team:
    .
    Hey anyone know what a Swedish light saber sounds like?
    *Bjornnnn*
    Yeah, you can use it in your encounter vs. ABBA the Hutt.
    .
    Was incandescently shiny.

  77. 77
    Deborah

    @59 trinioler Ouch no caffeine would be painful. There’s no way it was an anxiety attack, is there?

    @74 Tony I don’t know if I would have liked them if they weren’t covered in what basically amounted to spinach cheese dip and baked. The cheese was pretty stringy and very flavorful, you hardly knew you were eating anything but cheese, spinach and the little bread rounds we ate with them. And I find it entertaining everyone here throws peas around – I have always hated peas and still refuse to eat them.

    Yes, exactly! A human security blanket. I have found that I feel overwhelmed by being around a bunch of people I don’t know. The feeling is compounded by being in a situation with no clear focus, and compounded again by not having a physical place to be. So in this situation, it wasn’t too very many people I didn’t know (the most was 15, still uncomfortable, but when I arrived it was only 4 so it grew gradually). I had a clear sense of purpose – sit and talk. And I had a physical place to be – the chair I was sitting in. So I was able to calm down and have fun after a while.

    I don’t particularly like to dance. I can’t hear the rhythm and don’t know what to do. I did do some folk dancing I liked, lots of steps and holding hands with others so I could feel the rhythm and that was fun, but it was a group thing, where you join hands in a circle and everyone dances together.

  78. 78
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    Nutmeg:
    Finally someone with a craving I agree with. I love Orange juice as much as I detest oysters. Tropicana 100% oj-no pulp. Has to be out of the carton, rather than the plastic bottle. I probably drink oj 25 days out of each month.
    ****

    Stevarious:
    Damn. I hear you about being in a bar listening to guys talk about women. It’s going to be rough financially not bartending any longer, but I won’t miss listening to guys, or watching them leer at a woman and having to stay silent. Occasionally, I’ve silently assisted some women, like the one being bothered by this guy from across the bar. I picked up on what was going on when I saw her stacking plastic cups in a tower in front of her to block his view. I walked over between them and stacked more cups and simply smiled at her and nodded. She was just trying to sit and have a drink with a friend and this guy would not leave her alone. As if she was supposed to STFU and be happy he was deigning to speak to her. Aaarggh!

  79. 79
    chigau (違う)

    OK so maybe I am caught up.
    lofgren
    Great story!
    and good for your auntie!

  80. 80
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    Lofgren:
    That is awesome to hear. It’s frustrating this way, because its such a gradual process (that’s when it works) compared to how people often come into religion. Still, that’s payoff!

  81. 81
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    Oh. Now we’re on to gay slurs. Lovely. Why did I come here?

    At least you’re not trying to do thermo homework in preparation for an exam the next day, and you’re in a bar, not a room that’s reserved as a “tutoring center” most of the day. >.>

  82. 82
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Good morning
    You were busy last night…

    Ogvorbis
    Good to see you back and yay for speaking up.
    It really is something most decent people never even thought about. I remember having that conversation with Mr, who was basically the ” well, but he was called he most of his life, he won’t mind if people do it!”
    Privilege, thy name is blindness…

    Audley
    Happy aniversary!
    But I do advice you to try and get a belated aniversary meal in a nice restaurant if possible. It’s going to be the last decent meal you can eat in orderly manner in a long time (I swear that both of mine would wake up and be hungry whenever I was trying to have a meal).

    ++++
    So, another episode in “Cinderella ate my daughter” this morning.
    Nooooo, #1 can’t wear those socks because there are actually some blue stripes in them and blue is a Boys Colour™
    We checked my socks (blue is about the biggest amount of them. I love colourful socks with comic characters and cute animals) and I told her that if the boy who said it says anything like that again she can call him a know-nothing stupid-speaker.

  83. 83
    F [is for failure to emerge]

    Beard-snipping Amish dudes are gonna do prison time for hate crimes.

  84. 84
    Amblebury

    Trying to catch up. Ish.

    Ogvorbis. Back, safe.

    Audley. Peppy Chews arrived, safe. For now.

    Rorschach. Gone. For good?

    New faces. Arrived. Good.

    Peas. Maligned, unnecessarily. Again.

  85. 85
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    I’m also annoyed that somebody as intelligent as Ophelia doesn’t see through the “Free Speech!” defense when it’s about bashing muslims when she does so without any problems when it’s about women.

  86. 86
    Nick Gotts

    Giliell,

    I’m annoyed, but not surprised. Not long ago, she was denying the existence of Islamophobia, on the grounds (among others) that a “phobia” is an irrational fear.

  87. 87
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Nick
    I know. Just like “misogyny” is hatred of women. If you merely despise them it’s not enough.

    Also, dear family, i just handled 9 baskets of laundry in different states of wet, dry, clean, dirty, ironed, not-ironed.
    This sucks. Go become nudists!

  88. 88
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Great, my French group doesn’t exist any more.

    There were two groups in that school. One in the evenings, one in the morning. The first one has too many people, mine doesn’t have enough. It got cut.

    I loved my teacher and I don’t want to go to a group with too many people. You can’t learn a language properly when there’s too many people. What’s the point if you barely have a chance to say two sentences during an hour and a half?

    Fuuuuuck. It was my “looking forward to this so that I don’t despair” thing.

  89. 89
    blf

    Ecce Homo ‘restorer’ wants a slice of the royalties:

    Cecilia Giménez, who made a painting of Jesus look like a very hairy monkey, wants economic compensation

    Some painters die penniless, their work unappreciated. So it seems only fair after her artwork attracted global attention that Cecilia Giménez make some money — even if she did make Jesus look like a very hairy monkey.

    The 80-year-old Spanish parishioner became a worldwide laughing stock earlier this year after her botched restoration of a 19-century fresco of Christ with a crown of thorns became an internet sensation. Millions were reduced to tears of laughter, even as some hailed it as a masterpiece in its own right.

    Crowds have since swarmed to Giménez’s handiwork, paying the Sanctuary of Mercy Church in Borja, near Zaragoza, €4 (£3) each to marvel or mock. And now Giménez wants a slice of the action.

    The mildly deranged penguin points out the Mona Lisa doesn’t look anything at all like a penguin. So if she restores it to its proper appearance then she can get a slice of the resulting profit.

  90. 90
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    And now Giménez wants a slice of the action.

    You know what, I think she should get it. The church has, as usually, found a way to milk money out of this. She made it possible, she deserves her cut.

    Correction of the borked link:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/20/ecce-homo-cecilia-gimenez-royalties?newsfeed=true

  91. 91
    blf

    ‘Cranks and crazies’ have taken over US Republicans, says Australian minister:

    Wayne Swan, the Australian treasurer, says greatest threat to US economy is the ‘cranks and crazies’ in the Republican party

    Swan, one of few world leaders able to boast his country had avoided recession during the global financial crisis, also labelled the Tea Party wing of the Republicans as “extreme”.

    “Let’s be blunt and acknowledge the biggest threat to the world’s biggest economy are the cranks and crazies that have taken over the Republican party,” Swan said in a speech to a conference in Sydney.

    There’s also a video at the link (which I have not watched / listened-to).

  92. 92
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Thanks for the well wishes, everyone!

    Mr Darkheart and I will be celebrating our anniversary this coming Monday (we both took the day off)– we’re going to go to one of the local apple orchards and have lunch and pick up some cider donuts and other treats. It’s too bad that there’s not much of an apple crop this year ‘cos it would have been fun to go apple picking, too (not that I should be up on a ladder or anything, but still).

    As far as the meeting went… I tried to beg off, I really did. I even called my doctor’s office, hoping that they’d say “oh hell no”. No such luck for a short day trip– as long as I stayed hydrated and made plenty of stops, there was no medical reason for me not to go. Besides that, from a work standpoint, it made the most sense for me to go instead of sending a minion, simply because my work in and of itself is much more flexible.

    I’ll admit that it was nice to get a chance to say goodbye in person to everyone in the home office, since I’ll be quitting in mid-October. These are guys that I’ve worked with for over five years now and I’m gonna miss a bunch of them.

    I’ve learned that men (who are fathers especially) are every bit as interested in pregnancy as women (who are moms or want to have kids) are. I answered a lot of questions about my health, if the nursery is set up, if my husband is pulling his weight, etc. Nothing too intrusive or personal, thank goodness.

    Also, I have a Peppy Chew in my lunch. It’s gonna be a good day. :)

  93. 93
    blf

    Was Newton a scientist or a sorcerer?:

    Isaac Newton’s belief in spirits and alchemy may have been essential to achieving his towering scientific achievement: gravity. …

    Often wrongly portrayed as a cold rationalist, Isaac Newton is one of history’s most compelling figures. It is true that he was capable of the most precise and logical thought it is possible for a human to achieve: his three years of obsessive work that gave birth to the Principia, containing his theory of gravity, stand as the greatest achievement in science.

    The greatest?
    Wooga! Wooga!! Activate bullshite detectors! Shields up!

    Yeah, it could be considered that. There are several other candidates, however. Such as Euclid’s Elements (obviously used by Newton). As I recall, Newton was one of those who used the “standing on the shoulders of others” point, emphasizing science progresses by the incremental accumulation of refutable (testable) concepts (evidence).

    Just as certainly, though, he was also consumed with what we would now view as completely unscientific pursuits: alchemy and biblical prophesy.

    Alchemy offered … a philosophical underpinning that non-material influences — spirits — existed. These needed no physical contact and could induce transformations or movement through the triggering of “active principles” within an object.

    Primed to believe in these ideas, Newton discovered a simple, elegant mathematical equation that described the behaviour of gravity without the need for an intervening fluid. Gravity apparently worked across empty space. He called this principle “action at a distance” and instead of “spirit” began using the word “force” to better reflect its mathematical character.

    Smells of horsepucky. The concept of an inverse-square relationship governing the moon’s orbit (at least) was fairly common currency at the time. (Newton himself acknowledged Wren, Hooke, and Halley, and never claimed to have invented the idea.) What no-one else was able to do was convincingly demonstrate it could work. Newton not only demonstrated it, he then mathematically deduced — showed that they must follow — Kepler’s three laws.

    Whether or not Newton ever used “spirit” in reference to gravity I have no idea. I also don’t know if alchemy or alchemical concepts were ever mentioned in the Principia. He could never figure out the “cause” of gravity (his word), and refused to speculate (albeit that doesn’t negate the hypothesis of an alchemical “priming”).

  94. 94
    blf

    Binyamin Netanyahu gambles on Mitt Romney victory:

    The political TV advertisement featuring Binyamin Netanyahu and the slogan “The world needs American strength, not apologies” is likely to fuel claims that the Israeli prime minister is interfering in the US presidential election in support of Republican candidate Mitt Romney.

    [A]ccording to Yossi Verter writing in Haaretz recently, US officials had relayed to a “very senior Israeli figure” that “in the eyes of the Democratic administration, Netanyahu is perceived as campaigning on behalf of Mitt Romney.” To the president and his aides, the Israeli prime minister’s actions look like “crude, vulgar and unrestrained intervention in the US election campaign”.

    Joe Klein of Time magazine described Netanyahu’s recent behaviour as “an unprecedented attempt by a putative American ally to influence a US presidential campaign”.

    Mr Klein is not the only one to point out what Netanyahu is doing. As an example, there was also a recent column in the International Herald Tribune (and, hence, presumably, also in its parent The New York Times) to that effect, after the incident described below. (Sorry, I don’t have a link at-hand.)

    Continuing with excerpts from The Grauniad:


    The Israeli leader’s fury with Obama appeared to reach a new level after his failed attempt to use the US election to bounce the president into setting clear “red lines” beyond which America will take military action against Iran’s nuclear programme. In a press conference — from which footage was taken for the television advertisement — Netanyahu said without red lines, there could be no US-imposed red light to military action.

    In contrast, Romney has indicated that an administration led by him would take a more hawkish stance. …

    The rapport between the two rightwing politicians dates back to the 1970s when they both worked at the Boston Consulting Group.

    I have no idea to what extent either moronism or Rmoney accepts the horseshit about “rapture” and tie[s] the survival of Israel to the Second Coming of Jesus (that link is to a faerie-bothering site).

  95. 95
    birgerjohansson

    Wayne Swan, “world’s best finance minister”: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayne_Swan
    — — — — — — — — —
    Baby dragon… a migrant from the latest season of “Merlin” ?

  96. 96
    penasquito

    Good morning, ev1

    I wanted to ask some smart people, is “Professor” the proper title for Elizabeth Warren, or was that a dog whistle for the mouth-breathing knuckle-draggers?

  97. 97
    AJ Milne

    Very broad, but I lawled all the same*: Position Papers From the Apple Pie and Machine Guns Institute: No. 1, at McSweeney’s.

    (*/Actually, I think it may be one of those ‘joyously, gratuitously, shamelessly broad, and therefore actually funnier’ things.)

  98. 98
    blf
    I dislike beer with the passion of a million collapsing stars.

    who the hell are you people

    Their mothers don’t waste their eye-stalks. And their fathers are rubber-bands. Beyond that, they can only be peas in disguise.

    I will devour PEAS before I will consume any sort of oyster

    Heathen! Yer mother is a lump of dried green paint, and yer father snorts dust bunnies.

    Peas. Maligned, unnecessarily. Again.

    Pffffttt!!!!! Yer mother drinks shaving cream, and yer father is inflatable dartboard.

  99. 99
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    Ok sappy Rev. BDC time

    10th anniversary with Mrs. BDC today.

    Do you remember, the 21st night of September…

    No clue how she put up with me for 10 years.

  100. 100
    blf

    No clue how she put up with me for 10 years.

    Isn’t the usual technique for chimps to fling poo?

    (And yer link seems to be borked.)

    Congratulations on the 10 years! And the borked link.

  101. 101
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Yay, Rev!

  102. 102
    mountainwestbob

    Great Books!

    Just purchased (Kindle edition)”The Portable Atheist”, edited by Christopher Hitchens. Contains classic statements/analyses by Hume, Omar Khayyanm, and many others. The introduction by Hitchens is worth the price of the book, according to me.

    An older book that I heartily recommend (it sealed the doom on my religious life) is “The Origin of Satan” by Elaine Pagels, professor of religion at Princeton. If you don’t know her writing, you have missed an extraordinary learning experience.

  103. 103
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    Humm link works fine for me…

  104. 104
    Socio-gen, something something...

    Good [time of day where you are], everyone! I’ve about given up on being able to keep up with the Lounge. Damn professors just don’t seem to understand that I don’t want to write a two-page paper every week in all four classes!

    *Skims the thread, tries to remember previous one* In no particular order:

    Audley

    Sorry about the suckage, yay for Peppy Chews, and Happy Anniversary!

    When I was 8 months pregnant with EldestSon, I had to drive cross-country with my (now ex-) husband when he was transferred to a new base because USAF wouldn’t pay for our relocation if we waited until after ES was born.

    Pennsylvania to Arizona…in a Subaru Brat. How we both ended up alive and still married after 6 days on the road, I will never know. I did get to pick out our new car, however.

    deborahbell
    Congrats on going to the meet-up! I hope this leads to new friendships and new opportunities for you!

    I moved to my current location last August and I’ve managed to fight past my social anxiety to attend/do a few things (like being a clinic escort in May). It’s terrifying each time I walk into a new situation though, to the point that I usually think about going home at least 200 times before I get there. But the positive receptions I’ve gotten so far are helping, bit by bit — so I’m only thinking it 198 times.

    Ogvorbis
    Welcome home!

    Improbable Joe
    Belated congrats on the bossnurse’s new employment. I hope everything works out in whatever way suits you best!

    rorschach
    I’m sorry to see you go, but wish you well!

    Stevarious
    You can come sit by me and share the no-beer couch. I have yet to find one that doesn’t make me gag. I’ve tried, but beers, ales, lagers, mead, high-end, low-end — my taste buds think “Poison!”

    lofgren
    Wow! That’s fantastic! I became an atheist (and later found sociology) because I was always asking “How do I know that and is it true?” The change really came about when I finally let myself ask those questions instead of telling myself I was doubting or not having enough faith.

  105. 105
    blf

    Map lovers will love this.

  106. 106
    blf

    Humm link works fine for me…

    Oops! Yer correct. Not sure what happened, probably an offering to Cliksc, the Faerie of Bad Mousing.

    Sorry.

  107. 107
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    CongaRats to Rev. and Mrs. BDC. Hang in there together for many more years.

  108. 108
    blf

    Damn professors just don’t seem to understand that I don’t want to write a two-page paper every week in all four classes!

    Use crayon. Bigger letters, less writing.

    (Actually following this advice is a great start in the ditch digging and sidewalk busking industries. But you could get lucky and be considered an avant-garde artiste, albeit you’ll still need to ditch-dig or sing terrify for yer supper.)

  109. 109
    dianne

    My uncle Joe, who was named after my grandfather the same way I was, worked in the World Trade Center, and didn’t die on 9/11 because he overslept and was late to work.

    A colleague of mine’s husband worked on one of the upper floors of WTC II on 9/11/01. She was terrified that he would be caught in the collapse. In the end he was fine because of bad subway connections which delayed his getting in that day.

    For a little kind of comic relief, another story: A friend of mine didn’t work in the WTC per se but was (and is) a consultant who went to meetings there periodically. I was concerned about him for a while, but when we finally got in touch, he said, “Why were you worried? As long as people are blowing up office buildings at 9 am I’m perfectly safe.”

    Since that time, I’ve never been really convinced that promptness is a good thing. If someday I miss an airplane that crashes, I’ll never be on time for anything again as long as I live.

  110. 110
    blf

    I miss an airplane that crashes, I’ll never be on time for anything again as long as I live.

    If the flight you do catch crashes, you’ll probably also never be on time for anything again.

  111. 111
    Ingdigo Jump

    Rush Limbaugh is saying feminists cause penis shrinkage because he’s an idiot. The source of the study he cites though I can only find back to Jezabel which is unsourced. Everyone else I’ve found cites back to that dead end.

  112. 112
    Stevarious, Public Health Problem

    @Socio-gen

    You can come sit by me and share the no-beer couch. I have yet to find one that doesn’t make me gag. I’ve tried, but beers, ales, lagers, mead, high-end, low-end — my taste buds think “Poison!”

    Yay! The no-beer couch is getting pretty big. Pretty soon we’ll have to turn it into a tent!

  113. 113
    dianne

    If the flight you do catch crashes, you’ll probably also never be on time for anything again.

    I might. A lot of crashes are partially survivable. OTOH, I may decide that being on time is evil anyway.

  114. 114
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Ing.
    So, basically Rush has confirmed what we knew about him all along…

    I’m gonna go out and use my Super Feminazi Powers© to zap some innocent, unsuspecting men today, I think.

  115. 115
    Ingdigo Jump

    Oh right, was wondering if anyone had a source to the Italian Penis Study Comparing Size From 50 Years Ago. US press fails at it

  116. 116
    Socio-gen, something something...

    Congratulations, Rev. and Mrs. BDC! May you have many more happy years together!

    blf
    That would probably work if I were an art or philosophy major; sociology and women’s studies…not so much.

    I definitely have to thank the Horde for my excellent grades thus far in two classes — Dynamics of Prejudice & Oppression and Global Feminism. So much of what we’re reading/talking about this semester is stuff everyone here has discussed for ages.

    Because of this, I was actually able to hold my own in a (heated) class discussion on silencing techniques used on women — complete with a few in-class examples (like interrupting female speakers, dismissing them as “angry,” etc.) and a couple of people (both male) told me it helped them to think about the ways they inadvertently shut down conversations or dismiss complaints. Win!

    Now, if someone has a simple how-to guide for using and understanding SPSS, I’ll be in your debt forever.

  117. 117
    chigau (違う)

    Congratulations to everyone who needs it.

  118. 118
    chigau (違う)

    Nobody understands SPSS.

  119. 119
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Also, let’s say that penis size has decreased. So what? A guy can be “masculine” with a huge dong, a small dong, or no dong at all. I hate the assumption that size actually means anything (and dudes like Rush who will reinforce the fears of inadequacy in other men. Even if on the surface it appears that Rush himself feels like he’s not “man” enough).

    Anyway, I think I saw something about it pop up in my facebook feed, Ing, and I’m seeing if I can track it down. IIRC, penis size has decreased slightly, but it’s likely due to increasing obesity.

  120. 120
    Stevarious, Public Health Problem

    If you think you understand SPSS, you don’t understand SPSS.

  121. 121
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Ing,
    The only thing I can find that is sourced at all is an Italian study from 2001 that links penis size with height and weight.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_penis_size

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/11223678/

  122. 122
    trinioler

    @Rush

    NOT MAH PENOR!

  123. 123
    Socio-gen, something something...

    Stevarious:

    Yay! The no-beer couch is getting pretty big. Pretty soon we’ll have to turn it into a tent!

    I think it’s entirely appropriate that we have a no-beer tent. Every Old Home Days, Firemen’s Field Days, HomeFest, and [Town] Carnival I ever attended had a giant tent for the beer. (Which meant Bud or Coors, a/k/a: the Ugh! of Beers and Funky Piss-Water, on tap and served in 10 oz cups at inflated prices.)

    Audley:

    I’m gonna go out and use my Super Feminazi Powers© to zap some innocent, unsuspecting men today, I think.

    What fun! We should make it an annual daily event — “International Shrink a Penis Hour.” It’ll be even more fun than 2-Minute Hate.

    Stevarious: Nobody understands SPSS.

    chigau: If you think you understand SPSS, you don’t understand SPSS.

    So this means I’m not a complete idiot? Yay! Although I suppose I’m still a partial one, since I still have no idea how to make SPSS do what I want it to.

    It would be easier if the researcher(s) whose data we’re using for homework assignments would use actual words instead of cryptic symbols for the variable labels. “drp30d” is not instantly translated in my brain as “drinks consumed in the past 30 days.”

  124. 124
    Richard Austin

    I’ll join the no-beer couch (or tent, once critical mass has been reached). But I’ll need a tiny corner of it for “no alcohol of any kind” – maybe a throw pillow?

  125. 125
    Nutmeg

    *produces a set of camp chairs for the no-alcohol folks, and claims one for herself*

    *pours some delicious orange juice with no gross vodka in it*

  126. 126
    dianne

    @Richard: Make it two throw pillows. I’ve never been able to get into alcohol either.

  127. 127
    trinioler

    So.

    I have my own personal slyme pit now.

    Seriously. These people have set up a separate group, and they keep ranting about terrible of a person I am, while at the same time, proclaiming they have “no dogmas”.

    Yeah. Fucking right.

    Its kind of upsetting a bit.

  128. 128
    cicely

    Invasion of the Penis Snatchers
    -
    Nutmeg, I will save you from the vodka-in-orange-juice!
    :)
    -

  129. 129
    Nutmeg

    Glad to know you’ve got my back, cicely. ;)

  130. 130
    Socio-gen, something something...

    *Expands no-beer tent to add no-alcohol seating. Reconsiders. Creates multiple conversation areas. Adds comfy couches, plenty of throw pillows, and a few snuggly blankies*

    Okay, so we’ve got the no-beers to the upper left, no-wines to the upper right; mixed drinks in the lower left, neat liquors to the lower right; and no-alcohols in the center seating.

    Nutmeg: Re your earlier comment about PMS and orange juice — you might be low on potassium. OJ is rather high in it, which I why I can’t drink more than 8 oz per week.

  131. 131
    Deborah

    @46 Portia Thanks! The leader of the group just friended me on facebook and sent me a message saying it was nice to meet me – she seems good at followup. I wish I was close to you and we could go together :)

    @52 Joe That part of jingoistic patriotism, believing we share in everything the country does that we approve of and rejecting as unAmerican anything we disagree with really annoys me.

    @90 Beatrice I agree. I saw someone saying it was ridiculous on Facebook and didn’t say anything because they aren’t someone it’s useful to argue with, but I couldn’t help thinking – well, if it’s making the church money and she did the artwork, whether it’s critically thought of as good or not, she deserves the royalties. If it was bad music people were buying because it was horrible, the artist would still deserve royalties.

    @104 Socio-gen Thanks! I think it won’t be as hard to meet this group again, because I’ll feel like I know some of them, but I totally get the second-guessing just a little less thing.

    It occurs to me my intimidation – ok fear – about the new job I’m taking is probably related to social anxiety. It’s a huge place with a lot of people, so huge it boggles my mind and so many people they are constantly coming and going. I guess it helps to know what the problem is.

    @108 blf I hear that. Online classes are the worst – they can’t think of what to do so they make you write a paper every day!

    @116 Socio-gen That’s awesome!! It’s always nice to have someone actually think about what you tell them and maybe learn something.

  132. 132
    Deborah

    My sister posted something on Facebook about our mother that just really encapsulates who she is. I can’t think of anyone to tell but you guys:

    My mom got all excited and decided to walk around barefoot in the front yard after work for a while because she read an article today about how the earth releases electrons into our body that are natural antioxidants and pain killers….she may be insane but that’s why I love her.

    Some of the responses included people asking if Mom was doing a 40 day fast anytime soon, and saying that if you are feeling lightheaded and put your bare feet on the grass you will “more grounded”.

  133. 133
    chigau (違う)

    deborahbell
    I don’t think your sister is thinking this through, either.

  134. 134
    Ingdigo Jump

    Invasion of the Penis Snatchers

    Attack of the the one eyed monsters!

  135. 135
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Yesterday, someone posted a link to a story about a priest making children lick whipped cream off of his legs. I was disturbed but my feelings seemed out of proportion, too personal. Last night, I awoke at 4:00am with yet another memory of my old scoutmaster. I managed not to vomit.

    Will this shit ever end?

    What feels odd (about my reaction to 9/11) is that I never really felt like my world had changed.

    I don’t think my world changed when the attack happened. The aftermath, dealing with the security problems down at the Javitz Center, being at the crime scene afterwards, now that changed my life.

    Oh noes, I missed Oggie. :(

    ‘Night, Ogs.

    Not to worries. I be will around. No more fires for the season for me. Both Wife and Boss are quite adamant about that.

    And Happy Anniversary!

    Setár:

    Is this the USA? If so, many of the old maps have been digitized and are available on line. Library of Congress has some excellent old railroad and street maps and there are some other sites that have the topo maps from the late 19th and early 20th century. They are huge files but the detail is fantastic.

    there has been a minor downside though – opening my eyes and unblocking my ears has, oddly enough, allowed me to notice just how rampantly misogynistic our culture really is. pervasive is an understatement.

    Oh, I agree. The scales done fell from my eyes and now I see. And there is a shitload I don’t want to see but can no longer ignore.

    How the fuck can a political ideology based on a just-world fairytale be legitimate?

    Er, Christianity is still the dominant social paradigm for much of the western world and that has about as much internal cohesion as conservatism. So cognitive dissonance is most definitely not a barrier to ideology.

  136. 136
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Okay, deborah, your mom is weirder than mine.

    Although mine does love fasting. Because “toxins”. I once asked Mom if her kidneys were okay. She said yes. I asked if her liver was okay. She said yes. I then asked her what the point of fasting was*, since her body was already getting rid of any “toxins”. She didn’t have an answer for me, but was angry for a couple of weeks.

    *This is beside the point that I’m pretty sure that people on dialysis generally don’t fast. I mean, if that’s all you needed to do to “cleanse” your body, why in the seven hells are insurance companies paying for dialysis and kidney transplants?

  137. 137
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Thanks Oggie! It’s good that you’re back and done with fires for the season. :)

  138. 138
    Stevarious, Public Health Problem

    Okay, so we’ve got the no-beers to the upper left, no-wines to the upper right; mixed drinks in the lower left, neat liquors to the lower right; and no-alcohols in the center seating.

    Well, this IS a virtual conceptual space, there’s no reason to be so Euclidean. I’ma split all these spaces in half to divide smoking from non-smoking. Then I’m gonna braid them all together (kind of a reverse double Dutch I think…) so that we can all chat without actually being in opposite corners of the tent.

    It’ll work, trust me. We’re not limited by actual physics here.

  139. 139
    chigau (違う)

    It’s a Möbius beer refreshment tent queueueue!

  140. 140
    Lynna, OM

    cross posting from the Romney campaign thread:

    Sarah Silverman has produced a video giving viewers instructions on how to get around the new voter suppression laws.

    http://www.salon.com/2012/09/21/sarah_silverman_want_to_vote_this_year_get_a_gun/

    “Get these kids [students] gun permits!”

    “… take Nana to get a license to kill!”

    http://www.letmypeoplevote2012.com

  141. 141
    Socio-gen, something something...

    Stevarious:

    We’re not limited by actual physics here.

    It’s MAGIC!

    chigau:

    It’s a Möbius beer refreshment tent queueueue!

    Another one?! Does joining one mean you leave the other? Or are we in all queueueues at all times?

    *head goes asplody*

    It’s MAGIC!!

  142. 142
    Stevarious, Public Health Problem

    Another one?! Does joining one mean you leave the other? Or are we in all queueueues at all times?

    We can superimpose them, it’s cool.

    Don’t you wish amusement parks worked like this? So we could wait in line for ALL the rides, simultaneously? Get all the waiting done in one block first thing, and then just spend the rest of the day on nonstop rides!

  143. 143
    Setár, Elvenkitty

    Ogvorbis #135:

    Is this the USA? If so, many of the old maps have been digitized and are available on line. Library of Congress has some excellent old railroad and street maps and there are some other sites that have the topo maps from the late 19th and early 20th century. They are huge files but the detail is fantastic.

    Sadly, not the US — barely. What I’m looking at (mostly) is Great Northern’s abortive attempt at a Canadian transcontinental via the Kootenays, as well as the original connection to the US border that was dropped when the current line along White Rock and Crescent Beach was finished in 1911. The tracks have been gone since ~1930 in both cases, but you can still see in Google Earth how a lot of geographical features (including property lines — even where there are brand new developments!) are as if the line is still there.

  144. 144
    Setár, Elvenkitty

    as well as the original connection to the US border

    should be “…the original connection from New Westminster to the US border…”, silly me. The lines themselves were operated as subsidiaries: the Vancouver, Victoria and Eastern Railway and the New Westminster Southern Railway respectively.

  145. 145
    Lynna, OM

    Moment of Mormon Madness, with trigger warning for sexual abuse.
    Link: http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=22231658

    The Liahona Preparatory Academy in Pleasant Grove is a small private school, based on values of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, teaching students from Kindergarten through 12th grade.

    Just one problem, a teacher and coach groomed kids with attention and then sexually abused them.

    From the reader’s comments:

    They’re SIXTEEN. Not six. They knew exactly what they were doing. They made a choice. Don’t minimize their culpability.

    Whatever happened to the “age of accountability”? You’d think it would be 8, at the Liahona Academy, wouldn’t you?

    The very idea that sixteen year olds are incapable of making choices and being responsible for those choices is absurd. Our society is in serious trouble.

    If my 16 year old daughter sleeps with her 27 year old teacher you’d better believe I’m going to hold her accountable for her half of it.

    Mormon “age of accountability” is 8 years old.

    Give me a break! These girls are 16 and would be considered old enough for marriage in a couple of years. Have any of you noticed 13-16 year old girls these days, how they dress and how they come on to guys? It’s the “I’m old enough to do what I want” culture. I’m not saying the guy is innocent, but these girls are old enough to make their own choice.

    How can we judge? This is such a horrible situation. We need to remember there are more then two victims in this situation. The poor Degraff family must be in a world of pain right now.

    The mormon DeGraff family owns the school. It was a member of their family that had sex with two students.

    Broch is not a predator but someone that made a mistake if this did happen as the article says it did. I’ve known the DeGraff family for years and know this isn’t something that has been planned out in Broch’s mind. Stop putting the worst scenario into comments as facts because you think you know it all, and wait until a judgement is brought upon someone in court. There are times when girls have lied about things like this to get back at teachers for some reason. Wait until the facts are laid out, not just the beginning of the case. I’m behind the DeGraff family in love and support for whatever they need during this time of trial in their lives.

  146. 146
    Nutmeg

    Sociogen:

    Nutmeg: Re your earlier comment about PMS and orange juice — you might be low on potassium.

    Thanks! That did occur to me, but not until this morning, so I had a banana with lunch. I should probably start taking a multivitamin again.

  147. 147
    Patricia, OM

    Congrats to the BigDumbChimp!

  148. 148
    chigau (違う)

    Socio-gen

    Or are we in all queueueues at all times?

    Maybe, maybe not…
    It’s a Schrödinger’s Möbius refreshment queueueue!

  149. 149
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Arglebarglebarglebargle…bagel?

    Not only am I threadrupt, I am Internetrupt and have been – other than some mild Facebooking for nearly a week now.

    So, what did I miss? Anything that I should scurry off and read post haste?

    In other news:
    1) There is now a burrito-cart parked outside my workplace.
    2) The burritos are yummy.
    3) However, I did not need to eat a pound of burrito in one sitting. D:
    4) As of Tuesday, I will officially be cancer-free for 5 years. *confetti*

  150. 150
    birgerjohansson

    Here is the satirical leftie magazine in France who will publish cartoons of anyone -including Muhammed- as a matter of principle. http://www.charliehebdo.fr/
    — — — — — — — — —
    Setar, isn’t that the region whose geography featured in the novel “Reamde” ? The partially completed and then disassembled railway track was the route taken by the protagonist from Canada to USA in the final chapters.

  151. 151
    Amblebury

    Pffffttt!!!!! Yer mother drinks shaving cream, and yer father is inflatable dartboard.

    HOW DID YOU KNOW?!

  152. 152
    Sili

    I wonder if there’s an evolutionary psychologist handy who could tell us what challenges those poor cavemen faced to cause such a wide variance in beer-liking amongst modern humans?

    Liking beer and olives is unnatural. We’re programmed to avoid bitter tastes since they’re usually toxic.

    I speak as someone who had a double IPA Wednesday night. A bit too much for me, though.

  153. 153
    Amblebury

    Off out hunting fossils. They’re fast, but I’m faster.

  154. 154
    Lynna, OM

    No clue how she put up with me for 10 years.

    Rev., the answer is obvious. Beer.

  155. 155
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Esteleth:
    Woo hoo! *high fives!*

  156. 156
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    …and now the sky is black and rain is literally bouncing off the ground.

    And my umbrella is broken.

    D: D: D:

  157. 157
    Richard Austin

    Esteleth:

    When you have no choice but to get wet, you may as well go splash in some puddles.

  158. 158
    cicely

    Esteleth: *confetti&champagne*
    -

    When you have no choice but to get wet, you may as well go splash in some puddles.

    With napalm!
    -

  159. 159
    Setár, Elvenkitty

    birgerjohansson #150:

    Setar, isn’t that the region whose geography featured in the novel “Reamde” ? The partially completed and then disassembled railway track was the route taken by the protagonist from Canada to USA in the final chapters.

    Err. I looked up the book, and it sounds like that would be one of the portions in the interior, perhaps the old line to Nelson or Hedley.

    The NWSR was completed; it was the original connection across the US/Canada border at Blaine, running close to what ended up becoming the Pacific Highway for the most part before veering east through Port Kells, then along the Fraser River. It originally terminated at Brownsville, around the foot of what is now the Pattullo Bridge because the CPR’s monopoly clause prevented a rail crossing of the Fraser until 1901. After the rail bridge (still standing) was completed in 1904, the GN began construction of the current line running along the Mud Bay flats and Burns Bog in order to avoid the steep grades faced by the NWSR; when this was completed in 1909, the NWSR’s tracks south of the border station at Douglas were pulled up; the Fraser River portion of the line was sold to the Canadian Northern Railway (now part of the Canadian National Railway) in 1916 with the rest of the line being formally abandoned in 1918-19.

    And, as I said, if you look on Google Earth you can still see the angles of property lines, including some relatively new developments, that run slightly oddly — these are at the angle of the rail line. You’ll be able to follow the rail line based on the stands of trees and a couple roads — but all of the tracks are gone.

  160. 160
    Hekuni Cat, MQG

    lofgren, great story. Thank you for sharing.

    Rev, Happy Anniversary!

    Esteleth, Congratulations!

    Caine:

    [Vasco] is gorgeous, no question.

    Absolutely gorgeous. No question about it. This statement is completely objective and in no way reflects the fact that he is my and Louis’s virtual rat. :D

    Please give him gentle hugs and pets for me. ♥

  161. 161
    Lynna, OM

    NPR’s Fresh Air talks about the fact that Americans are paying high prices for poor quality Internet speeds.

    Podcast, and some text, at the link above.

    Excerpts:

    …the U.S. ranks 29th in speed worldwide.

    “We’re way behind countries like Lithuania, Ukraine and Moldavia. Per bit of information moved, we pay 38 times what the Japanese pay,” Johnston tells Fresh Air’s Dave Davies. “If you buy one of these triple-play packages that are heavily advertised — where you get Internet, telephone and cable TV together — typically you’ll pay what I pay, about $160 a month including fees. The same service in France is $38 a month.”

    In his new book, The Fine Print: How Big Companies Use “Plain English” to Rob You Blind, Johnston examines the fees …

    “Over the last 20 years, we’ve paid at least $360 billion in higher rates to the traditional telephone companies, and well north of $100 billion more to the cable companies, who all testified before Congress, made filings with regulatory agencies, bought ads on TV that told us we were going to have this information superhighway and it was going to be everywhere,” he says. “Instead, what they built was a system in very limited locations.”…

    On how a city built its own municipal electrical system: “They created a municipal electric system. Well, they also built a municipal Internet, and it is so high-powered and so fast that a lot of the work done for the Pixar animated movies is done not in Hollywood, but in Lafayette, La. Well, the response from AT&T, Verizon, Cox, Time Warner and the other cable and telephone companies has been to go to legislatures and say, ‘We want a law passed that either blocks or makes [it] virtually impossible to build municipal systems. That’s competing with our business interests.’ And that’s part of the whole strategy they have: ‘We want to be monopolies without competition, we want to run the system in our interests, to maximize our profits,’ with no regard for the overall economy of the United States.”…

  162. 162
    Setár, Elvenkitty

    Lynna #161: I’ve heard it can be bad in Canada, too. And horrible specifics, like inane bandwidth caps, or entire cities where one company has an effective monopoly over high-speed internets.

  163. 163
    Patricia, OM

    Fossils…they’re fast, I’m faster…. I like that. Consider it stolen.

    Patricia, faster than a speeding fossil!

  164. 164
    Stevarious, Public Health Problem

    And horrible specifics, like inane bandwidth caps, or entire cities where one company has an effective monopoly over high-speed internets.

    In the township where my parents live, Comcast pays the local government $10,000 a year for the exclusive ‘right’ to provide high speed internet access to residents. The only alternatives are dial-up and a satellite dish.

    I do not understand how it is legal.

  165. 165
    Lynna, OM

    In reference to Stevarious @164, it’s legal because lobbyists at the state and federal level have passed all kinds of laws making it legal.

    More extracts from the Fresh Air link @161:

    …in 19 states, the legislature has passed a law that if a company says we’ll leave if you don’t let us do this, or in some cases if we move here, we’ll let you do this, the workers have their state income taxes withheld from their paycheck. So as far as they know, they’ve paid their taxes. The government treats them as having paid their taxes….

    [state tax money goes] to the company you’re working for. Every big, brand-name company you have heard of in America has one of these deals. Rupert Murdoch’s Dow Jones, General Electric, Procter & Gamble…They all have these deals. They cover hundreds of thousands of workers.

    And why would the legislature let these companies do this? Well, quietly, laws have been passed that allow these companies to not pay state income taxes in most cases. Most state corporate income taxes now don’t come from the big national or multinational companies, they come from locally owned businesses.

    … Your state income taxes are kept by the company. The company doesn’t tell you this. You don’t know this. And the way the company does it is it files a form that gives it a tax credit equal to the state income taxes withheld from its workers’ paychecks… You would be being taxed by your employer. And that means everybody else in the state has to make up for those taxes if they’re going to have schools to educate children, courts to adjudicate disputes and all the other services on which business depends.

    … Are we going to live in a market economy, where businesses operate by providing the services and products and earning profit, or are we going to live in an economy where we’re taxed to subsidize these businesses?…

    …That’s corporate socialism. That is taking from the many to benefit the few, and it’s not free. The rest of us will have to pay higher taxes or take less in government services to benefit these companies.

    …what we’re seeing is the homogenization of the American economy. Because of these stealth subsidies to big multinational companies, you’re seeing more and chain operations….

    And to the extent that we take the state income taxes withheld from workers’ paychecks and let companies keep that money, that we tax people to put up factories and office buildings and retail stores, that we grant tax exemptions to these big national companies, we are promoting inefficiency, and we are privatizing the profits and socializing the costs.

    …General Electric in Ohio is getting $115 million withheld from its workers’ paychecks to modernize one of its factories in which it’s spending $126 million. So 92 cents on the dollar of this investment is coming from the taxpayers.

    Now GE, if it makes an eight percent profit on its investment, will make 100 percent annual profit on its investment in that factory, thanks to the taxpayers. Why should I pay taxes, why should you or anybody listening to the show pay taxes to give money to General Electric?…</blockquote.

  166. 166
    Lynna, OM

    it’s legal because lobbyists at the state and federal level have passed all kinds of laws making it legal.

    Whoops. I meant to write: ” it’s legal because lobbyists at the state and federal level have pressured (bought off) legislators who then passed all kinds of laws making it legal.”

    Lobbyists don’t pass laws, although they do often write the laws legislatures pass (see ALEC).

  167. 167
    Deborah

    @133 chigau Oh my sister is deep in woo.

    @136 Dr. Audley When I was a teenager my mother did a 3 week fast that was eating only bell peppers (she fasts for both “toxins” and also as a religious exercise). The problem? She hates bell peppers, always has. So she spent the whole 3 weeks eating a few bites and then vomiting. It was really miserable for everyone. She did that one a few times.

    It didn’t occur to me until a few months ago that my parents and my school had me fasting – all day or two meals – when I was in elementary school. They actually closed down the school cafeteria when there was a church wide fasting day. It was grudgingly accepted for children to have water during a fast, since we were kids and all…

    @138 Stevarious Ohh braiding! Can I do some?

    @149 Esteleth I’ll drink to that! Here’s to another 5!

    @161 Lynna that doesn’t surprise me one bit. Verizon was able to bully the FCC into giving mobile data an exception to net neutrality, after all. I wonder how Google’s broadband WiFi project will be received by such companies? http://www.muniwireless.com/2012/07/26/google-launches-1-gbps-internet-service/

    @162 Setar I’ve always wondered why the landline telephone company and the cable company get monopolies in different cities. You have one cable company, one landline telephone company, and that’s it. Which one you have differs in different areas, but there’s no competition between them. They compete a little with each other, but offer somewhat different products. It bothers me.

    Verizon just sent me a paper letter to thank me for enrolling in paperless billing…

  168. 168
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    I told my best friend that I think that I should maybe talk to someone about my depression, since it’s a bit more than just “feeling down”.

    Her advice : talk to a priest.

    I thought she was fucking with me since she’s not even religious. At all. But she was serious. Someone (I bet it was her friend who studied theology) told her that a priest is a good person when you need someone to talk to.

    Besides it being a fucking priest, I had in mind someone a bit more professional.

    Her comment was that I can’t go to a psychologist because it will go into my medical file and I’ll never get a job.

    So what should I do?

    She only sees those two option and going to a professional would obviously lead to a file on my mental health so that’s a non-option. THerefore, priest.

    I was trying to stay calm ,but I got really angry.

    I’m asking for serious advice about something important to me and I get such a flippant answer.

    When I kept being horrified by the idea of a priest, her words: “Well, those are the only two options. Who else can you talk to?”

    I got a bit drama queen and only answered “Nobody at all” which totally included her in all the people I will never talk to about this again.

    And it was a nice evening up until then. Things always end like that when I try to approach some sensitive topic like that. I wasn’t fucking kidding. Maybe she would have understood better if I’d explained how serious this is for me. But now I’m honestly afraid of the answer. I’m afraid she’s get all dismissive and that I’ll just feel even worse later.

    And she even got insulted by my anger, because I shouldn’t have gotten angry just because I didn’t like the answer.

  169. 169
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    My mom got all excited and decided to walk around barefoot in the front yard after work for a while because she read an article today about how the earth releases electrons into our body that are natural antioxidants and pain killers

    Oh dear. I hope you’ve invested in outlet covers?

  170. 170
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    Beatrice,

    Seeing a doctor doesn’t keep you from getting a job, unless you’re talking about jobs that require high levels of security clearance.

  171. 171
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Improbable Joe, I know, I was just so upset and disappointed by her reaction that I couldn’t get further into explanations.
    I was looking for some support in something I only hinted at before and never really openly talked about, let alone did anything like looking for help.
    YOu know, the way she looked at me like “are you stupid” for wanting to see a doctor…

  172. 172
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    I just immediately tried to back up into forgetting that i even mentioned anything.

  173. 173
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    Jeez, Beatrice. That’s just such a shitty situation.

  174. 174
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    And then I dump it on you lot here. Don’t you feel lucky?

    Sorry.

  175. 175
    Deborah

    @168 Beatrice I really think you would be fine to see a mental health professional. There are very strict laws about health records privacy. I spent two years seeing a counselor, a psychiatrist and a psychologist (not all at the same time). I was on medication for a couple of years, and I once checked myself into an inpatient facility. That isn’t on my resume. It isn’t something employers are allowed to ask about when interviewing me. I didn’t sign anything allowing them to look for my medical records when I gave permission to check my employment history, education history, and credit history when getting a new job. Even if they did want my medical records, my former employer’s insurance company would not be allowed to release them, and my doctors would not be allowed to admit I was even a patient, even if they could figure out who I went to see.

    That said, I have found through this process that a good family doctor can be a first point of contact for medical help with mental health issues. I have seen two during this period, and both took the time to listen, would ask me on followup visits specific questions about how I was doing and about the progress of various issues that played into the depression (i.e., asking me how I was getting along with my mother if I had mentioned problems with her the last time, or asking if the holidays were causing me any emotional difficulty). Both of them have prescribed anti-depressants and followed up with me on progress with them, although one asked me to be seeing a psychologist while I was getting an anti-depressant from her. So if you saw a regular doctor, there wouldn’t be any record anywhere that you had seen a mental health doctor because you wouldn’t have.

    And then there are usually suicide prevention hotlines with trained volunteers answering the phones. Hopefully you aren’t suicidal, but you can usually call and talk to them anyway. You wouldn’t have to give a name if you didn’t want to, so for no records, that would be ideal.

    I was assuming you still wanted advice, sorry if not. :) And hugs, hope it gets better soon. None of it is any fun.

  176. 176
    Deborah

    @171 Beatrice Ah, sorry, I see you knew that already. Well anyways, maybe it will help someone.

    When I was struggling I always hated how people would really obviously start worrying about suicide whenever I tried to tell them I was unhappy. They would start asking “are you alone?” and those type questions, like they were mainly only worried with making sure they weren’t the last person I talked to. I found it irritating because I wasn’t at that place and I just wanted to talk, not get grilled.

    And I found ministers are pretty terrible counselors.

  177. 177
    Socio-gen, something something...

    Stevarious:
    Yay for braided Möbius refreshment tent queueueue! You know….we’ll have to add a food tent queueue as well. Vegans, vegetarians, gluten-free, omnivorous, etc.

    Esteleth:
    Woot! *confetti* *ticker tape* *bacon* *Snoopy dancing*
    Congratulations on reaching the 5-year mark, and best wishes for continued good health!!

    Sili:

    We’re programmed to avoid bitter tastes since they’re usually toxic.

    So my tastebuds have been interpreting beer correctly? Excellent!

    Beatrice:
    Ugh! That’s awful! To have your best friend fail to understand how important this was to you and that you wanted her support, that’s bad enough. But, then to act as though your anger is misplaced — and put you in the position of having to dismiss/ignore your own feelings…that’s worse.

  178. 178
    Portia

    Tony

    For me to be social, I really almost need a human security blanket…someone I know fairly well (more than an acquaintance).

    I have exactly the same mental (emotional?) block. It’s holding me back so much right now, especially when I’m supposed to be joining groups left and right to further my career. I don’t know how to overcome it yet, but I do know that you’re not alone.

    deborahbell

    And I had a physical place to be – the chair I was sitting in.

    This is totally part of my problem with social situations where I have no human security blanket. I don’t know where to be or what to do with myself. I just feel sooo awkward and end up rationalizing a reason to leave asap.

    Thanks! The leader of the group just friended me on facebook and sent me a message saying it was nice to meet me – she seems good at followup. I wish I was close to you and we could go together :)

    That’s very cool! How fun. I hope you had some good conversations. You made me smile really big with that last part! I second the sentiment.

    It didn’t occur to me until a few months ago that my parents and my school had me fasting – all day or two meals – when I was in elementary school. They actually closed down the school cafeteria when there was a church wide fasting day. It was grudgingly accepted for children to have water during a fast, since we were kids and all…

    This struck a chord. My family wasn’t into fasting, but I had friends who sought to prove their devoutness by fasting. One particularly obnoxiously sanctimonious friend in “high school” would say she was fasting for a week. And she’d say the side benefit was the weight loss. The mind boggles. In retrospect, the poor girl probably had an eating disorder, and religion covered for it.

  179. 179
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Thanks deborahbell and Socio-gen. Advice appreciated and I’ll come back to reread it, I just can’t think right now.

  180. 180
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Dang, where’s my clue by four/frying pan????? The scientists and engineers at Pullet Patrol Products™ think drilling down to the liquid Earth core is the fix for the Redhead’s need moar heat. Whereas I think a few minor mods, like changing pressure points for better circulation, will make her left hand warmer without costing her the right arm and right leg.

  181. 181
    Portia

    Giliell

    Just like “misogyny” is hatred of women.

    Something just clicked in my head re: Islamaphobia. Thank you.

    Rev. BDC

    10th anniversary with Mrs. BDC today.

    Congrats!

    trinioler

    I have my own personal slyme pit now.

    I’m sorry : (

    Ogvorbis

    Will this shit ever end?

    I really hope so. : ( So sorry it keeps plaguing you.

    Audley

    I mean, if that’s all you needed to do to “cleanse” your body, why in the seven hells are insurance companies paying for dialysis and kidney transplants?

    Ooooooh, I’m gonna steal this and use it on my “alt med” family members. I am so *sick* of hearing about juice cleanses and topical herbal remedies.

    Lynna

    ”I’m not saying the guy is innocent, but these girls are old enough to make their own choice.”

    Trigger warning sexual assault

    -
    -
    -
    This attitude sickens me, though I know it’s not novel. In my area a prominent male 38 y/o public official got off scot-free in the face of pretty convincing evidence that he had sex with a 15 year old girl. She had previously been in a sexual relationship with her teacher. People in the community told me over and over that 15 is “old enough to know what’s going on” and that she was “ruining men’s careers.” I nearly lost my shit on so many people.

    Esteleth

    4) As of Tuesday, I will officially be cancer-free for 5 years. *confetti*

    *champagne!!!*

    (What corner of the tent is that again?)

    _____________________
    Lastly, I have good news! I have a shiny new law license to hang on the wall, and a much larger potential client base! Yay! Twice the lawyer I was when I woke up this morning.

  182. 182
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Twice the lawyer I was when I woke up this morning.

    Which means your hourly rates go up by eight. ;)

  183. 183
    Socio-gen, something something...

    Portia:

    One particularly obnoxiously sanctimonious friend in “high school” would say she was fasting for a week. And she’d say the side benefit was the weight loss. The mind boggles. In retrospect, the poor girl probably had an eating disorder, and religion covered for it.

    I was that person in high school and for many years afterward. It wasn’t until my own daughter was diagnosed with an eating disorder at the age of 7 that I started looking at my own behavior.

    I would give God all the credit for giving me the willpower to deny myself food. It was my holy mission — denying my own appetite to prove my love — and his love for me, naturally. From age 14 to age 25, I did week-long fasts once a month, with special fasts thrown in during holy seasons. My pregnancies were the only time when I allowed myself a normal diet, because BAYBEE!

    Just one more way religion warps you.

  184. 184
    Portia

    Which means your hourly rates go up by eight. ;)

    If only my client rolls would go up as much :)

    Socio-gen – wow. I’m glad you’ve gotten past that, I can’t imagine the struggle.

  185. 185
    Portia

    I am quivering with rage. 12 year old neighbor boy literally just knocked Littlest one’s tooth loose (Littlest is 6). And somehow they are still supposed to be suitable playmates?! This is the same kid who told littlest to ask us for a lighter so they could keep their fire going.

  186. 186
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    So…

    My in-laws sent me $100 in Amazon gift cards. What do I get? $100 worth of Cup Noodles?

  187. 187
    Lynna, OM

    Keeping up with an ongoing Moment of Mormon Madness: How the Mormon Church Has Improperly Mixed Church and State in Its Excommunicating Efforts Against MormonThink Managing Editor David Twede . . . original post by Steve Benson, with others contributing.

    http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,645763,645763#msg-645763

  188. 188
    Lynna, OM

    I am quivering with rage. 12 year old neighbor boy literally just knocked Littlest one’s tooth loose (Littlest is 6). And somehow they are still supposed to be suitable playmates?! This is the same kid who told littlest to ask us for a lighter so they could keep their fire going.

    Holy crap!

    Is the 12 year old a budding sociopath?

  189. 189
    Portia

    He gets little to no parental attention/supervision. Both parents work third shift and his main company is his 16 year old sister. I feel badly for the poor kid, who is, after all, a kid. But I do often wonder about him and his mental health. And SO’s sanity as well, for allowing the friendship to continue.

  190. 190
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    What do I get? $100 worth of Cup Noodles?

    No, only %90, and use the other $10 to some “extravagant” for you.

    Sorry, but been pricing organic vegetarian corn chowder and butternut squash soup for the Redhead.

  191. 191
    Portia

    Also, I’m not sure the tooth-knocking was malicious, but it was certainly criminally negligent (sorry, too mad to translate my brain out of lawyerthink). Littlest is little for even being 6. Neighborkid is just far too rough.

  192. 192
    JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness

    Blow the 100 on you and BossNurse.

    I haven’t been keeping up very well, but have you looked into food banks around you? It’s not going to be fun or great food, but it is food at least.

  193. 193
    Portia

    My breathing is returning to normal rates. Sorry you all had to witness the spasms.

  194. 194
    Deborah

    @178 Portia My sister once asked me why I didn’t just stop eating to lose weight. She told me when she was starting to find her size 0 jeans fitting a little tight she would just stop eating “for a week or so”. I, on the other hand, would forget to eat (and sometimes still do). At the worst of the depression I would forget to eat for a couple of days, and I promised my doctor I would eat 3 meals a day as one of my first resolutions on the way out of depression. I actually lost 10 pounds by making sure to eat regularly. I still think the ability to just forget to eat is probably related to fasting as a child because that’s what would happen – I would just forget I was hungry and do other things, and then feel guilty because I didn’t do any special praying or feel closer to god.

    @181 Portia If they are anything like my acquaintances, the answer would be that the whole medical system is in cahoots, to make money and keep us sick.

    @186 Joe Wellll you could, I suppose, trade it to someone who wanted a gift certificate for cash. Maybe. Or buy books!

  195. 195
    Deborah

    Sooooo

    BF broke up with me two weeks ago on Saturday morning. Friday night has always been date night, for the past 3 years. Last Friday night I was out of town visiting friends, so this is my first Friday night at home since. Been trying to get hold of some friends to hang out with but can’t get anyone who isn’t working. :(

  196. 196
    Portia

    Deborahbell – wow that’s a pretty horrible pattern to instill in a person. Add it to the list of twisted mentalities imposed on us, huh?

    Your characterization of alt-meds sounds pretty spot-on. My aunt once shouted at me, when I suggested I would get children’s benadryl instead of bee pollen for Littlest, “Who would you rather support, the drug company or your local bee keeper?!” I just don’t understand it. It’s like religion.

    As to your date night deficit, I am so sorry. I can sympathize a little and I now wish even more that we were near each other so we could hang out! If you don’t find anyone in meatspace to hang out with, I’ll be around here for a while : )

  197. 197
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    Did you know you can order food from Amazon.com? I could order LIVE LOBSTERS!!!!!!

  198. 198
    Portia

    Also, break ups suck. My condolences and hugs if desired.

  199. 199
    trinioler

    Aww, deborah, I know the feeling. You can hang with us!

  200. 200
    Portia

    Did you know you can order food from Amazon.com? I could order LIVE LOBSTERS!!!!!!

    I did not. I’m curious about the packaging for that.

  201. 201
    Alethea Kuiper-Belt

    *confetti* for Esteleth! Yay! Excellent news!

    *hugs* for Beatrice. I don’t know where you are, but in Australia, the GP is a good first point of contact. You can go find your own counsellors without a GP, and if you’re broke then university psych departments often run free or cheap clinics. But GPs can also prescribe meds, they usually know who the good local counsellors are, and in .au they can write a recommendation for counsellors that makes it cheaper by partial government funding.

    And on stats, Sociocgen:

    It would be easier if the researcher(s) whose data we’re using for homework assignments would use actual words instead of cryptic symbols for the variable labels. “drp30d” is not instantly translated in my brain as “drinks consumed in the past 30 days.”

    Yes that’s a variable NAME, not a variable LABEL. And one as written by someone who is old enough to have started when there were 8-character restrictions. Silly bugger.

    SPSS isn’t that hard, really, don’t be scared of it. I haven’t used it in ages; I do SAS now. But the main thing you need to adopt is a data-centred view. You describe your data set – where is it (file name & locations), what is its shape (csv, fixed width, excel etc), what are all the variables’ names, what are all the possible values etc etc. Once you have that well sorted in your mind (and your program), *then* you can do stuff with the data. In my experience, most people’s problems stem from jumping into the analysis without getting that understanding of the data first. (Disclaimer: problems originating from stupid GUIs not included.)

  202. 202
    Portia

    Taking what alleges to be a citizenship test online (yeah I’m bored)

    “What is the economic system of the United States?”

    ~none of these
    ~communist
    ~capitalist
    ~socialist

    I chose none, because it’s quasi capitalist at this point right? Any system with welfare can’t be purely capitalistic, right? I am so economically illiterate.

    I got another question wrong because, thanks to homeschooling and being in Annie as a kid, I thought Herbert Hoover was president during the Great Depression.

  203. 203
    Rumtopf

    Hello everyone. I’ve been following a large meteor on youtube, it’s been over the UK and now Ireland :D Technology is wonderful. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-17248959

  204. 204
    Rumtopf

    I just realised I got the wrong link, d’oh. I had both links open. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19683687

  205. 205
    opposablethumbs

    Internet-withdrawal – only just starting to initiate recovery. So I wanted to dump this pile of hugs in the middle of the table here … and …

    kristinc (way way back in the previous thread) I hope your kids’ school deals with any peer pressure shit – or worse – a damn sight better than suggested by the track record you describe :(

    Ogvorbis I was very ‘rupt after having a big computer implosion (evil necrotic bits on my hard drive, apparently) but I just had to backtrack until I could find out what conversation it was you were referring to … so I did, until I got to your account of explaining the gender pronoun situation. Oh, way to go! Saying what you did, the way you did, is really really great. Then I read onwards, and I got to the bit where you were re-triggered. Fuck :((((

    lofgren, lovely story! That really is a happy one!

    Stevarious

    It’ll work, trust me. We’re not limited by actual physics here.

    ::happy::

    Beatrice, shit I’m so sorry. That situation you describe is so fucked up – how can it be that a person needs someone competent to talk to, and there’s pressure on you not to do so even if you can find someone?

    Portia and Esteleth, huge congratulations! But holyshit for the situation with the neighbour kid. 6 and 12 is a hell of a physical difference even without the older kid being rough. Hope Littlest is ok, and it’s possible to find different play options :(
    .
    .
    Plea for help:

    I lost all my add-ons and everything when my computer had to have a total re-install in the last couple of days, and I DON’T REMEMBER where and how I got
    a) the killfile, and
    b) the bold/italics/underline/blockquote buttons that I had installed as part of firefox and which worked for any website!
    It was SO lovely having them! And now they’re gone, and I miss them and want them back!

    Does anyone know off-hand what I must have done before, which I have now totally forgotten like the klutzIdiot I am?

  206. 206
    opposablethumbs

    Oh, I think I found the formatting add-on. (most, but not all of which works here)

    Still need to find which is the right

    killfile …

    Would be grateful if anyone could remind me!

  207. 207
    Portia

    Thanks for the grats and the commiserations. Littlest is fully functioning, and the tooth was a baby tooth. But I still don’t know if it’s cracked, if it will last til the permanent tooth comes in, etc. Makes me sick to worry about him, but that’s really just my problem because he isn’t complaining of any pain any more.

    -

    I’m having a conflict because I am happy your found your formatting add-on, but sad because I was hoping I could surreptitiously steal it after someone else directed you to it. Now I must just ask you for it directly :)

  208. 208
    carlie

    I HATE SHOES.
    All I want is nice black dress shoes that can stand up to a full day teaching labs without making me want to cut off my feet. Can I get those shoes? No. Well, maybe if I had a couple hundred dollars I could get those shoes, but on a smaller budget, nope. I have half a mind to buy Capezios, slap no-skid stickers on the bottom, and see how that does, but it’s too expensive of an experiment if it doesn’t work. (I had to wear them in high school and they weren’t perfect, but were ok. But then again, that was with teenaged feet, not middle-aged feet.)

  209. 209
    Socio-gen, something something...

    Portia
    Congrats on the new license!

    Oddly, enough, it wasn’t as much of a struggle to give up the fasting as it was to give up religion and, later, the woo. Since I’d been diagnosed with adrenal insufficiency during my second pregnancy, the fasting thing was responsible for quite a few hospitalizations in the years afterward. (And may have contributed to my adrenal glands deciding to go on permanent vacation in the first place.)

    Once I figured out eating a proper diet consistently kept me from being an ICU patient and human pin-cushion and dramatically lowered my medical bills, I was mostly on-board. It took my daughter’s battle to make me stop apologizing for what I ate and saying things like, “I’m going to be good and not have any chocolate cake/I was bad and ate too much at lunch (and now must punish myself by drinking only bouillon for dinner).”

    Joe
    Yay gift card! Wait, Amazon sells food?! Honestly, between Amazon and the local grocery chain that offers online shopping and delivery, I could become a happy hermit.

    deborahbell
    Ugh! The first few weeks after a break-up are awful when you’ve gotten into a habit of date nights or doing a specific thing at a specific time. I have no useful advice, since my method of dealing is to hunker down at home, eat too much starch and sugar, and put the “sad songs” playlist on repeat. I usually know I’m getting ready to move on when I switch over to the “mad music” playlist. (Dropkick Murphy’s, Godsmack, System of a Down, Rage Against the Machine, etc.)

    I’m available to hang out as well!

    Alethea
    In this particular data set, the label and name are the same… *shudder* I’m constantly going back and forth between the data set and the code book to translate and figure out which variable(s) in the list are the ones I want.

    In my experience, most people’s problems stem from jumping into the analysis without getting that understanding of the data first.

    That’s exactly where my problem lies: I can’t get a grasp on the data at all, even in the set I chose for my poster presentation, so I can’t figure out what the analysis is telling me. I see the numbers, but it doesn’t mean anything.

    Part of it is just the way variables are presented. Instead of seeing each question alone and then a sum of how many answered a, b, c, or d. I’m seeing all possible answers at once, so my brain isn’t giving me a proper mental picture of the results. (More of a +++Divide by Cucumber Error+++)

    I’m hoping that lots of time in the computer lab practicing will help.

    opposablethumbs
    Greasemonkey? I think….

  210. 210
    opposablethumbs

    Hey, Portia! I almost went to bed but not quite (I’m being foolish, ’cause it’s almost 2am here) :)

    This is the formatting add-on I used:
    https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/text-formatting-toolbar/?src=search
    It’s far from perfect, as not everything works here (I think I saw some comment about how it’s not being maintained any more?) but it’s just so handy being able to at least bold, italicise and

    blockquote

    things at a stroke without writing in the brackets by hand.

    Thank you, Socio-gen! I did already just add greasemonkey, which I remember was needed for the killfile to work, but I can’t remember which was the actual individual killfile script I need to add that will work in ftb

    I might collapse into bed now, but I can haz computer again so I will return tomorrow, yay!

  211. 211
    Portia

    Socio-gen – Thanks for the congrats and thanks for sharing. The long-term effects of eating disorders are chilling. I’m glad that you have been able to break those habits. The “I was bad for eating that” is such a pervasive sentiment that I’m sure it was that much harder to get away from doing it. I really try to keep myself from saying things like that around Littlest’s older sister, who is now 12 and has said that she needs to work off the calories from a muffin before. Anyhow, I’m glad for you and wish you all the best.

    -

    On another note, I just came across comment which explained the question in my mind: “Where did Josh’s new sur-nym come from?” Snickers were had.

    (I have lost the memory I had of where I stored the way to made subtitles for the vision impaired in my links. If anyone wishes to remind me I will happily use it in the future.)

  212. 212
    Portia

    Night opposablethumbs, and thank you! Sweet dreams.

  213. 213
    Portia

    Socio-gen

    Right on cue, Oldersister comes home from Girl Scouts and tell us that she has chosen to work towards the badge called–and I am not making this up–”Eating for Beauty.” What the FUCKING FUCK.

  214. 214
    Socio-gen, something something...

    Portia:

    Here I was composing a reply about how one of my pet projects is working on body image issues among young women…and then I saw this and had this overwhelming moment of despair enriched with FUCKETY FUCK FUCK!

    *headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk*

    I had to go look up because….WHY?! Oh, look it has vegetables! And it’s part of the “It’s Your World – Change It!” Journey series. *sob*

  215. 215
    Socio-gen, something something...

    And the other offerings in the series are: Digital Moviemaker, Public Speaker, Science of Happiness, and Screenwriter.

    *sigh*

  216. 216
    Portia

    Well, if you have in mind to work on those issues, your efforts are obviously needed. She said “It’s about eating healthy.” The only thing I could think to sputter out was “Healthy is good, but beauty is not the reason to be healthy.”

    It gets worse…she said she wanted to do other ones, but they were “too expensive.” More *sob*…

    But really how much could screenwriting cost?! And she *has* a digital camcorder! And access to all manner of tech gadgets!

    Thanks for commiserating. I would be breaking things otherwise, and nothing here needs breaking.

  217. 217
    Socio-gen, something something...

    It’s overwhelming at times, how much work is needed because we’re talking about changing the entire culture.

    I’m trying to figure out what “eating for beauty” (gag) has to do with changing the world. The others make all kinds of sense — they’re things you can learn and take out in the world to make a difference.

    As a former Girl Scout, I’m just disappointed in the GSA and bothered that your daughter (and other girls) feel pressured into going for this badge because it’s cheaper. What happened to Girl Scouts fostering independence, leadership, and confidence through skill-building??

    If your daughter would like to do something else and cost is an issue, I would LOVE to contribute to buying whatever she needs to do the project she most wants to do.

  218. 218
    Portia

    Oh, that is so sweet and touching and unspeakably appreciated. I’m sorry if I gave the wrong impression, E is not my daughter (and Littlest is not my son), they are SO’s kids. I don’t really want to meddle in what they/she chooses, but in other circumstances I might accept your kind offer. (Part of the reason I get it off my chest here is so that I don’t give her the impression that I’m criticizing *her*). Thank you so much.

    I do agree with your frustration with GSA though, I really had thought they were better than this.

  219. 219
    ImaginesABeach

    Eating for Beauty is not a badge that my troop is interested in (I love my geek girls) so I hadn’t looked at it. The summary says “nutrition isn’t just about maintaining a healthy weight: Eating well helps you inside and out. Choosing the right foods can help you sleep better, stress less, and get smooth skin, shiny hair, and strong nails. In this badge, find out how to eat to keep your skin glowing, your mind focused, and your energy flowing.”

  220. 220
    Portia

    ImaginesABeach, I can’t tell if that’s meant as a defense or an indictment.

    Have I mentioned the activity this evening was putting on fake nails?

  221. 221
    ImaginesABeach

    I should add that the It’s your world journey is about bullying, clicques, etc. I’m thinking that eating for beauty actually works against that message.

  222. 222
    Deborah

    @196 Portia I suspect it comes from the same place as religious feeling. Thanks! I am playing WoW right now and several guildies are on. Nobody in meatspace available, but maybe later in the weekend. It does suck, and it’s confusing because I have been living with him and I don’t have the wherewithall to move out right now…so moving into my own room in the same house, sharing the regular bathroom with his brother who also lives with us instead of the master bathroom with ex-BF..just weird. He’s being really nice and wanting to be friends, which is good…and also weird.

    @197 Joe Lobsters. There’s an idea.

    @199 trinioler thanks!

    @201 Alethea My doc gave me a really good recommendation for a psychologist when I moved here. I really liked him.

    @202 Portia My homeschooling curriculum was really odd on history. They did a unit on each of the first 3-4 presidents (a unit was 1/12 of a year, so that’s a lot) and then skipped to Abraham Lincoln, and then skipped to the 20th century. I remember noticing the point when presidents stopped being talked about adding to the debt and instead adding to the deficit, and I remember someone, I think Coolidge, paying down the debt. Maybe it focused a lot on money, I’m not sure. And then it talked about why unions were evil and such for a while.

    @209 Socio-Gen Yeah. Only problem is home is where I moved to be with him. And he’s acting like nothing has changed except not sleeping together. But mostly I’m managing ok. Running lots of Theramore scenarios in WoW. :) I thinking ordering a pizza and drinking tonight. I’m a happy drunk so that works.

  223. 223
    Portia

    I need to turn in but hopefully can catch up with this conversation later.

  224. 224
    ImaginesABeach

    It is not a defense. It is not a badge my troop will work on. Last week we did experiments with non-Newtonian liquids.

  225. 225
    Socio-gen, something something...

    Oh gosh, and I knew that! I can understand walking that line of being a parental figure but not the parent. Even slight criticisms can take on a different meaning to the child. (My only experience in that area is seeing how my kids reacted to things coming from one of their step-mothers. Things I could say, that would be accepted as a “Mom’s concerned” thing, were always assumed to be malicious if the steps said it.)

    There’s always room for improvement even in a good organization, I suppose. I do like that they offer a range of activities so girls can choose those that best meet their own interests, without feeling like they’re “too girly” or “too boyish,” but I’d rather “beauty/health” options were in their own category that could be avoided (or not), instead of being included in more skill-oriented series.

  226. 226
    Socio-gen, something something...

    ImaginesABeach:
    That description gives me the squicks.

    Yay for Girl Scout leaders! I was lucky that my troop leaders (in the late 70′s/early 80′s) were all strong feminists and environmental activists, so we did all kinds of great nature and personal confidence/leadership activities — but not much science. :(

    Looking back, I realize that our fly-up and bridging ceremonies were done in a way that created a sense of sisterhood and personal empowerment. For our fly-up from Brownies, we were “flown” in one of the leaders’ arms to the stage (belly-down, arms outstretched). For the bridge to Cadettes, we had an actual mini-bridge, like the ones they use for photo shoots. We were led to it one-by-one by our troop leader, then greeted on the other side by all of the current Cadettes, who bridged to Seniors the next week. Everything from the readings to the remarks was an acknowledgement that we’d accomplished something and were ready to move on.

    deborahbell:
    Oh that sucks. Might I suggest, in addition to the drinking, playing the mad music loud enough to be heard? I favor Godsmack’s “I Fucking Hate You.” :D

  227. 227
    chigau (違う)

    *hugs* for everyone.
    ——
    Does this Girl Scout badge thing allow some out-of-the-box stuff?
    She could go full bore on the damage done by Dieting™, fashion model drug addiction, animal testing for cosmetics, etc.
    ——
    Girl Scout badges cost money?!?
    (I’m 40+ years out of date.)
    (and Canadian)

  228. 228
    Portia

    Ok, I’m waiting for the nyquil to kick in.

    Deborahbell, cheers to happy drunkenness and games. I am sorry for your situation right now. I can’t think of anything but platitudes, so whatever ones might be helpful, consider them offered. :)

    I took one formal history class through a homeschool cooperative (which met in a church). I implored my mom to let me quit (she did) after the weird male teacher jokingly threatened to hang a girl from her toes for being late. This was after he went on a rant about the phrase “gay lover” because ‘what they have isn’t love, it’s an abomination.”

    Socio-gen – it is a fine line indeed.

    I went to E’s recent bridging ceremony, or whatever it’s called. It was very cute. (Though organizationally disastrous, says the control-freak in me).

    ImaginesABeach – yay for science-minded girls! Your group sounds cool. Glad they have you :)

    On the topic of change, and hoping for better out of the organization, do you think there’s someone who I could write a letter to or something? Sort of a “I has a disappoint, GSA”

  229. 229
    ImaginesABeach

    I’ve looked through the Eating for Beauty badge, and they could have made it good – it could have been eating for health (food pyramid for a balanced diet, how different foods affect your sleep and energy, etc) and it would have taken almost NO effort. In general, I have to say that the current GS program is pretty good. The badge options for middle school girls include things like digital movie maker, public speaking, woodworker, special agent (a CSI-type thing), Netiquette, trailblazing (backpacking). There seems to be something for everyone. My troop really likes the STEM stuff, so we tweak everything to meet their needs.

  230. 230
  231. 231
    chigau (違う)

    Oh and
    I haven’t made bread in about three weeks
    the sour-dough is looking sluggish
    what can I feed it so it’s ready in about 12 hours?

  232. 232
    Weed(less) Monkey

    Toss half, add flour and water as usual, and if it’s really sluggish half a teaspoon of sugar or honey I suppose?

  233. 233
    Weed(less) Monkey

    Of course you could just keep it in room temperature for a few hours to see if it starts to bubble.

  234. 234
    ImaginesABeach

    Last comment on Girl Scouts before I head to bed. I think a lot depends on the leaders and the girls – GSA stresses that we are supposed to make it girl-led as much as possible, so if leaders are listening to their girls, each troop is going to have a different experience. I’m looking at the badges for 9th and 10th graders now just out of curiosity. The First Aid badge asks them to recognize the signs of drug overdose or alcohol poisoning, there is a badge about traveling, including traveling on a budget, once called “Voice for Animals” – I’ll consult with SC before leading that one, the Business Etiquette badge mentions career dreams of astronaut, CEO, neurobiologis, rock star and author, there’s a textile artist badge (more reasons to consult the Horde), the “Room Makeover” badge requires you to build something, there’s a Truth Seeker badge that teaches skeptical thinking, Adventurer, Car Care…

    AND the “Women’s Health” is the parallel to the “Eating for Beauty” badge, and it has a step to find out how fads and beauty practices impact health and they specifically mention high heels.

    So bottom line, the current GS program was rolled out last year. It’s not perfect, but for the most part it’s not too bad. And with the right leader and the right girls, I think it can be pretty good. You just have to be willing and able to point out the weak parts to your girls.

    I, of course, have the best girls.

  235. 235
    Alethea Kuiper-Belt

    Instead of seeing each question alone and then a sum of how many answered a, b, c, or d. I’m seeing all possible answers at once, so my brain isn’t giving me a proper mental picture of the results.

    Doing a simple sum is already analysis, you know. FREQUENCIES and DESCRIPTIVES are the bottom-line basics of analysis, you don’t have to be running chisq or t-test or correlations.

    Actually, I’m not sure what you mean by “seeing all possible answers at once”. Is your data set structured with the person as the unit record and questions as the variables? Or are the questions broken up so each option has a yes/no boolean?
    option 1 is normal for mutually exclusive answers
    ID – q1, q2, q3
    person-1 – A, B, C (or 1,2,3)
    person-2 – C, B, D

    option 2 is often used for multiple choice questions
    ID- q1-A q1-B q1-C …
    person-1 – 1 0 0 …
    person-1 – 0 0 1 …

    And there are many other structure options.

  236. 236
    chigau (違う)

    The Sourdough has been put in The Bowl, with water, sugar and flour.
    All is good.

    Tomorrow it’s going to have rice flour.
    and quinoa
    mwahahahaha

  237. 237
    Unholy

    Congrats, Esteleth!

    Hello, by the way, everyone. I feel like I know everyone already; I’ve lurked for years. I don’t know how often I’ll comment, but I do read most threads. I’ll wave from the shadows.

  238. 238
    cicely

    And then I dump it on you lot here. Don’t you feel lucky?
    Sorry.

    ‘Salright. *hug* We do pretty good at the whole mutual-support thing.
    :)
    -

    Lastly, I have good news! I have a shiny new law license to hang on the wall, and a much larger potential client base! Yay! Twice the lawyer I was when I woke up this morning.

    Huzzah!
    *confetti*
    -

    And somehow they are still supposed to be suitable playmates?!

    Obviously not.
    -

    Did you know you can order food from Amazon.com? I could order LIVE LOBSTERS!!!!!!

    I would imagine that the price for LIVE LOBSTERS is damned high!
    -

  239. 239
    Socio-gen, something something...

    Alethea:
    Oh dear dogs. I can see I’m going to need a lot more practice time….

    I can explain what I’m supposed to do. Go into “variable view” then “analysis” then “descriptive statistics.” That opens a window with a list of 200 variables to choose from. (We’ve only done simple mean, median, mode, range — so no chi-square or t-tests so far.) Instead of seeing things divided up by the questions, I just have one very long list of answers that I (somehow) have to sort through.

    So, for example, for the question “How many drinks have you consumed in the past 30 days?” there are (I think) 20 variables listed: # of drinks consumed in the past 30 days, 1-5; # of drinks consumed during past 30 days, 6-10; # of drinks consumed…11-15; # of drinks…16-20; 21-25; 26-30. So, I can get it to tell me what the 3 M’s are, but… I have no idea what to do with it.

    The problem is that I can’t seem to look at the data and say, “Okay, this shows 68% of male college students surveyed report drinking at least 5 drinks per week” [totally made up fact]. With regard to the data set my presentation will be based on, I can’t say “54% of Republican voters prefer a male candidate” (another TTMUF).

    I don’t know if it’s just that we’re not that far into the lesson plan, or if I got used to working with limited data in my stats class (and figuring out the basic analysis by hand) and can’t make the leap to large sets.

  240. 240
    chigau (違う)

    Well, then, good night, all.
    We have a quite dark moon, so I’m to the back yard to look for meteors.

  241. 241
    Alethea Kuiper-Belt

    Huh, I see it’s GUI issues. I’m afraid I can’t be quite so much help there. I write code, and when I’m cursing a stupid GUI, it’s SAS.

    It sounds like it *might* be a boolean coding but that doesn’t make a lot of sense for that sort of variable. (Perhaps a beginners’ exercise in transforming variables, so I won’t rule it out.) Are you *quite* sure you’re looking at a list of variables, and not of values or value labels? Can you actually get a spreadsheet-like view of your data? Can you copy & paste this list of variables?

    There’s no practical difference between small and large sets at this point, no need to worry there. It’s just that the computer does all the hard work of summing 200000 values, which would be very dull manually :)

  242. 242
    Aratina Cage

    I just met a little enclave of atheists unexpectedly. School teachers, university professors, journalists, etc. They joked about religious beliefs like we do here. Am overjoyed!

  243. 243
    Deborah

    I guess it’s time for bed. Night people.

  244. 244
    Socio-gen, something something...

    Alethea:
    From what my notes and the class notes say and from what it was telling me, those are the variables, not the values/value labels. But I could also be completely wrong.

    The program confuses the hell out of me, in general, and a good portion of my notes are step-by-step directions to getting the right things to turn up in the output window.

    Unfortunately, I can’t paste the list, since the program is only on the lab computers. (I’m considering buying a year’s rights to download the student version just so I don’t have to use the much-hated Apples and their flat and stupid keyboards.

    Aratina:
    Nice!!

  245. 245
    chigau (違う)

    So I’m not quite to bed yet …
    but can someone tell me why yelling at the dripping faucet and calling it Very Bad Names doesn’t make it stop dripping?
    i mean srsly

  246. 246
    trinioler

    Carlie:

    I HATE SHOES.
    All I want is nice black dress shoes that can stand up to a full day teaching labs without making me want to cut off my feet. Can I get those shoes? No. Well, maybe if I had a couple hundred dollars I could get those shoes, but on a smaller budget, nope. I have half a mind to buy Capezios, slap no-skid stickers on the bottom, and see how that does, but it’s too expensive of an experiment if it doesn’t work. (I had to wear them in high school and they weren’t perfect, but were ok. But then again, that was with teenaged feet, not middle-aged feet.)

    Little secret. High-level running shoes also have excellent support for standing, and they run between $80(for last year’s models) and $120 for this year’s models.

    Will they fit the dress code?

  247. 247
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    Chigau: ‘Tis the obstinacy of inanimate objects, they could do it if they wanted, but noooooo, they’re just too damn stubborn. We live in a universe that is 99.99% made up of teenagers.

  248. 248
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Good morning.

    Sent friend a text about meaning it seriously yesterday and not appreciating the stupid “it will forever be in your file” with the alternative of “talk to a priest, at least they don’t keep records”.

    Answer : “I know what you meant. I made an irrelevant comment and you got upset over it needlessly.”

    It wasn’t irrelevant since it was her whole answer.

    I got upset over best friend giving me bullshit instead of a bit of support, but I’m just overreacting again.

    *trying to let it go*

    Thanks all, stopping with this now.

    ___

    Joe,

    They seem to have a couple of more reasonable things in the Amazon store, besides all the gourmet bullshit.
    You mentioned once that your in-laws don’t seem to get it that you are in seriously financial trouble, as in “not having food”. This Amazon card makes them look a bit like assholes, sorry to say.

    ___
    Carlie
    I second the suggestion about running shoes. If you can find a pair in some discrete colors, it might not even be very noticeable that you are wearing sports shoes. I had a pair like that (black). I wouldn’t exactly go to a wedding in them, but they’re fine for every day.

  249. 249
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    I can’t even call it a typo, I just used a wrong word:

    discrete -> discreet

  250. 250
    McC2lhu doesn't want to know what you did there.

    Carlie @208:

    I HATE SHOES

    Ran the problem past missus, recommends these:

    SHOOZ!

  251. 251
    strange gods before me ॐ

    but I can’t remember which was the actual individual killfile script I need to add that will work in ftb

    It’s our own mod of Daniel Martin’s killfile:

    http://pharyngula.wikia.com/wiki/greasemonkey

    It doesn’t play well with nested comments, and there are no plans to fix this. It should work brilliantly at Pharyngula though.

  252. 252
    Alethea Kuiper-Belt

    Sorry Socio-gen, there’s not much I can do without leaning over your shoulder. If they are variables, then for some reason someone has split up the answers to a question into several separate variables. Does that make any sense in context?

  253. 253
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    So, for example, for the question “How many drinks have you consumed in the past 30 days?” there are (I think) 20 variables listed: # of drinks consumed in the past 30 days, 1-5; # of drinks consumed during past 30 days, 6-10; # of drinks consumed…11-15; # of drinks…16-20; 21-25; 26-30. So, I can get it to tell me what the 3 M’s are, but… I have no idea what to do with it.

    The problem is that I can’t seem to look at the data and say, “Okay, this shows 68% of male college students surveyed report drinking at least 5 drinks per week” [totally made up fact]. With regard to the data set my presentation will be based on, I can’t say “54% of Republican voters prefer a male candidate” (another TTMUF).

    Early morning, so I’m not at my sharpest, but…huh? Those aren’t variables; they’re the different values of the variable “# of drinks consumed during past 30 days.” The values are ranges: 0-5 (presumably), 6-10, 11-15, 16-20, 21-25, 26-30,… Unless the data were entered wrong, you should be able to see the number/percentage of cases for each value for the variable, and find the percentage of cases (students) for each value.

  254. 254
    Amblebury

    @Chigau You might be in bed already, but until you can get the washer seen to, tie a rag around the tap draping into the sink. The water will pass down that instead of drip-drip-dripping you over the edge of reason.

  255. 255
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    Ah – I see that was already mentioned.

    From what my notes and the class notes say and from what it was telling me, those are the variables, not the values/value labels. But I could also be completely wrong.

    They can’t be variables, since they don’t vary. Like “eye color, green” is not a variable but a value of the variable “eye color.”

    *(well, they could in some other study…)

  256. 256
    opposablethumbs

    Thank you so much, sgbm! (I had been looking blankly at the list of killfiles on this page http://userscripts.org/scripts/search?q=killfile&submit=Search
    and thinking it all looked completely unfamiliar)

    Aaand … [kill]​[hide comment] is back where it should be, yay :)

    I use it extremely rarely, but it’s so good to have for those occasions when you really want to clean a troll off your screen.

  257. 257
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Hi there, I’m a bit running round like the white rabbit

    I also had a moment of stupid. We’re going to friends this afternoon and stay there over night. Now, I promised to make dessert. I made mousse au chocolat. When I was half way through making it I suddenly realized that I was using a dozen fresh raw eggs and my friend is pregnant…
    So I had to whip up something else for her…

  258. 258
    Stevarious, Public Health Problem

    So JT seems to be actually surprised that they are launching an Astrology page on Patheos.

    I for one am shocked! Shocked I say!

  259. 259
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Sounds like he’s admitting to having the well-known skeptic blind spot. Religions are wrong, but they are spiritual and personal and crap so they get more of a pass than things like astrology.

  260. 260
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Favorite comment (by Gordon):

    Wait, you’re saying there are untrue beliefs on patheos?

  261. 261
    irisvanderpluym

    Giliell, Approved Straight Chorus: that’s not a moment of stupid. That’s a moment of thoughtful.

  262. 262
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Uuuuh, Venus is in Leo. My love life is going to become more colorful and I might have a torrid love affair.
    I just have to hurry a bit, because the whole Venus in Leo thing lasts only until October 2nd and who knows what awaits after that.
    Damn, I could already be in the midst of my passionate affair if I’d seen this earlier this month.

  263. 263
    carlie

    Thanks for the shoe advice. :) I can easily wear black sneakers, but as a short schlumpy person, I just want to have pretty shoes with a little bit of a heel. That feel exactly like sneakers. You know, the ones magical pink unicorns and dragons in the garage wear. ;)

  264. 264
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    carlie,

    I know how you feel. Mum has to wear shoes with a bit of a heel, because of her bad hips, but obviously not too much of a heel for the same reason. She also wants nice comfortable shoes and won’t wear sneakers.
    All you can do is visit a couple of shoe stores and hope. :)

  265. 265
    irisvanderpluym

    Carlie: my sister owns a salon and is on her feet all day, for long days. FWIW she swears by those gel inserts. She also buys shoes via Footsmart (catalog and online); they specialize in comfortable shoes, brands that come in different widths, etc. Here’s a link (narrowed by “black” and “dress shoes”). Most are under $100, some $49.95.

    Footsmart’s return policy is good: my sis usually buys a few pairs at a time and ends up sending back one or two and/or exchanging for a different size. I found shopping for shoes online weird at first (I use Zappos), but once you find your size in a brand that works for you it’s a no brainer. And if I find a pair I really love, I immediately buy another pair before they’re freaking discontinued. (NYC is very tough on shoes.)

  266. 266
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    I’m going to issue a preemptive apology for my 247. Not only was it not particularly funny, but it was ageist too.

  267. 267
    Muse

    Carlie – another thought is character shoes – actors and dancers wear them. They are pretty comfortable, have a slight heel, and are sufficiently dressy.

    Also, if you have disposable income and like it a little funky, Fluevogs make the most comfortable shoes I’ve ever worn.

  268. 268
    Stevarious, Public Health Problem

    Hmm, MY horoscope is completely, 100% accurate today.

    Of course, whoever wrote it played it safe and wrote some stuff that’s pretty much true for all non-catatonic humans that will talk to other humans today.

    I can’t believe people get paid for this trash. “You may feel uncomfortable today if someone shares too much information with you.” No. Way. There’s a chance someone will TMI me, and if they do, there’s a chance it will make me uncomfortable? I just don’t believe how incredibly accurate these people are!11!!

    Gog dammit but this is worthless, inane garbage.

  269. 269
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    Wait, you’re saying there are untrue beliefs on patheos?

    :D

    Well, I guess that ends any speculation about how they can afford to pay bloggers as they do – by partnering with operations like tarot[dot]com, in part. I feel a little sorry for the people who moved there recently, even though they pretty much knew (or should have known) what they were getting into.

    It’ll be funny to see the reaction of the religious bloggers there.

  270. 270
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    Beatrice,

    They seem to have a couple of more reasonable things in the Amazon store, besides all the gourmet bullshit.
    You mentioned once that your in-laws don’t seem to get it that you are in seriously financial trouble, as in “not having food”. This Amazon card makes them look a bit like assholes, sorry to say.

    Well… I mean, it IS a birthday present. I think they meant well is getting me a gift card where I’ll have to actually get myself a gift rather than paying a bill. And my wife has started working so I guess she’ll get some money by the end of next week and all. It still seems like they could have just sent me cash and let me use it how I want. As it is, I probably won’t even bother with food. To get it fast enough to matter I’d have to use half the money for shipping. I’ll probably just buy some books.

  271. 271
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Joe,

    I missed that it was a birthday present. That is different.
    (if I also missed a mention of your birthday, a belated happy birthday!)

    Mmmm, books. Enjoy!

  272. 272
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Good morning everyone!

  273. 273
    Portia

    Good morning :)

    It’s cold to get out of bed now in the mornings. Who gave summer clearance to end?

  274. 274
    carlie

    Thanks, irisvanderpluyme! Muse – Capezios are one maker of character shoes. I’ve considered those, just not too sure about taking that plunge. Perhaps one of these days. I have big plans for all the things I’ll get when I’m old and my kids are out of the house and out of college. :)

    It should be cold here now, but this morning was oddly nice. Got the chimney swept and inspected, today is replacing the furnace filter and cleaning out for wood stacking, sooner or later I have to get off my duff and buy wood before it’s entirely too late.

    Hope everyone has a good weekend planned.

  275. 275
    Socio-gen, something something...

    Beatrice
    Double-ugh! You weren’t “needlessly upset” or “overreacting”! You were rightfully upset that she did not take you seriously and offered an “irrelevant comment” instead of listening to you and offering real support!

    That is the point of friendship, right — offering support when friends need it? Or have I been doing it wrong all these years?

    Alethea:

    If they are variables, then for some reason someone has split up the answers to a question into several separate variables.

    That’s exactly how I’d describe it.

    SC:

    Early morning, so I’m not at my sharpest, but…huh?

    That’s how I feel every time I open the program.

    Those aren’t variables; they’re the different values of the variable “# of drinks consumed during past 30 days.”

    Yup. Except, somehow, for some reason, they’re what comes up as the variables in this particular data set — which, apparently, makes no damn sense to anyone.

    So, either the set is messed up or I’ve done something wrong from the very beginning. Time to make an appointment with the tutor, I suppose.

    Giliell
    Whoops! Not quite the same, but this summer, I made PA Dutch Baked Corn (basically, a corn custard) for my brother’s girlfriend’s birthday dinner. She’s vegan.

    Stevarious

    So JT seems to be actually surprised that they are launching an Astrology page on Patheos.

    Color me surprised…

    carlie
    These and these are the two pair of dress shoes I own. Both are Easy Spirit and comfortable, though the second pair is better for really long days.

    Audley
    Good morning!

    Portia
    I know! I actually broke down and turned the heat on in the bathroom after showering this morning, just so I could stop shivering long enough to dress and put my contacts in. (Which, to my eyes, felt like ice cubes under my lids.)

  276. 276
    trinioler

    Good morning everyone!

    I’m happy. After the hell my last “gf” put me through, I was concerned about dating again. (Its a whole big complicated story I don’t want to go through again. At some point, retelling it becomes masochism, and not the good kind I like!)

    But last night at friday night magic, I got a phone number and asked her to coffee and she said yes!

    Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

  277. 277
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    Yup. Except, somehow, for some reason, they’re what comes up as the variables in this particular data set — which, apparently, makes no damn sense to anyone.

    So, either the set is messed up or I’ve done something wrong from the very beginning. Time to make an appointment with the tutor, I suppose.

    Ah – I see. I can’t help with technical problems.

    But I do like talking about variables. :)

  278. 278
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    What I’m looking at (mostly) is Great Northern’s abortive attempt at a Canadian transcontinental via the Kootenays

    Another suggestion: go to nhrs.com and look for chapters of the National Railway Historical Society that focus on the GN. Chances are very good that at least one of the chapters will either have someone, or know of someone, who has this information, including maps. The nrhs attracts many amateur historians who have done some very valuable research at a detail level that few professional historians have the time and resources to do.

    What do I get? $100 worth of Cup Noodles?

    When I get a little money, I buy books. If anything is left over, I buy food and pay the mortgage.

    Did you know you can order food from Amazon.com? I could order LIVE LOBSTERS!!!!!!

    Or you could get a Rock Lobster!

    Seriously, get something useful and get something extravegant — the ratio depends on you.

    . . . explaining the gender pronoun situation. Oh, way to go! Saying what you did, the way you did, is really really great.

    It wasn’t easy but it felt good. Again, without this place, it would never have happened.

    Then I read onwards, and I got to the bit where you were re-triggered. Fuck :((((

    Sometimes I feel like its a fucking minefield. I have no idea what is going to dredge up more memories. Scary, but it is getting better. Sort of.

    I’m trying to figure out what “eating for beauty” (gag) has to do with changing the world.

    [CYNICAL] Eating for beauty will change the world by providing more eye candy for the men who are the important ones. [/CYNICAL]

    Girl Scout badges cost money?!?

    [CYNICAL] This is ‘Merkuh. If no one can make a profit, why bother doing it? No profit means no one wants it, right?[/CYNICAL]

    I would imagine that the price for LIVE LOBSTERS is damned high!

    It is. $25 to $30 a pound. Right now, they are $2.50 on the docks in a tourist part of Maine.

    Hopefully some of the upcharges goes to the lobstermen/women (what the fuck is the gender neutral for one who harvests lobsters?)

    but can someone tell me why yelling at the dripping faucet and calling it Very Bad Names doesn’t make it stop dripping?

    You haven’t found the correct bad names yet. I suggest looking for a Gnostic Plumber. They know all the magic words.

    But I do like talking about variables. :)

    Eh. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don’t. My desires vary.

    And, according to NPR, the emoticon was invented during an email discussion of the effects of a plunging elevator on a candle and a puddle of mercury. :-)

  279. 279
    Portia

    trinioler

    HOORAY! Congrats on having some fun and finding someone cool : D

    Beatrice

    Sorry your friend is persisting in being dismissive. I hate that.

    Socio-gen

    Once my mourning period for summer’s end is over, I start to actually enjoy autumn. But right now I’m having difficulty. And I haven’t even been wearing my contacts lately. *sympathetic shiver* However, to combat the chills, we had a very autumn breakfast: cinnamon and brown sugar on oatmeal and fried apples, which were picked from the tree in the front yard. Plus hot tea. I’m all cozy now.

  280. 280
    Portia

    (what the fuck is the gender neutral for one who harvests lobsters?)

    Lobster harvester?

  281. 281
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    It’s cold to get out of bed now in the mornings. Who gave summer clearance to end?

    Sorry. My bad. I put in a purchase order for cooler weather back in, I think, March? and it just came through.

    Lobster harvester?

    Works for me.

  282. 282
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    Had an amazing 10th anniversary dinner with Mrs. BDC. I won’t go into details so not to offend a few commenters here, but if you come to Charleston I highly suggest The Macintosh.

    Damn

  283. 283
    Nutmeg

    trinioler: Yay for your upcoming date!

  284. 284
    Josh, Official SpokesGay

    Portia, you should join me in being delighted by the onset of fall. It’s all about cozy all the time. Soup, stew, fresh bread, blankies on your lap.

    Then again, I don’t really like summer. Heat drives me nuts and makes me feel ill and cranky. Admittedly I’m an odd duck on that count—temperatures most people find comfortable I find oppressive.

  285. 285
    Portia

    Damnit, Ogvorbis.

  286. 286
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    Had an amazing 10th anniversary dinner with Mrs. BDC. I won’t go into details so not to offend a few commenters here,…

    Wow. That’s incredibly thoughtful.

    Happy anniversary!

  287. 287
    trinioler

    Its just “coffee”, which is just, you know, casual, not a date.

    She seems pretty cool, she’s doing a pre-med at the local university.

  288. 288
    chigau (違う)

    RevBDC
    I googled that restaurant and almost plotzed when I saw “Bacon Happy Hour”.
    It made me sad that Bacon is the Chef’s name.

  289. 289
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    I normally really really like summer, but as far as I’m concerned, this awful, hot, dry summer can fuck off at any time now. Lately, mornings have been sunny and in the mid-50s and that suits me just fine.

    In other news: I just ordered an awesome diaper bag! http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000LPJTU6/ref=cm_sw_r_an_am_at_ws_us?ie=UTF8 (In “black skulls”, in case it doesn’t come up.)

  290. 290
    Socio-gen, something something...

    trinioler
    YAY!

    SC
    I love variables. It’s fun playing with them and comparing them and wandering about trying to see if there are correlations. I enjoy the whole process of “This is what I want to know; this is what I’ll ask to find out what I want to know; this is what I learned; this is what I think it means.”

    Well…that was back when it was small sets and me plugging things into an Excel spreadsheet. Now that it’s me and SPSS, it’s less fun and more Y U NO LIKE ME?

    Ogvorbis

    what the fuck is the gender neutral for one who harvests lobsters

    Lobsterer?

    Portia
    I enjoy autumn, generally, until about mid- or late-October. I heartily dislike being cold. Once it gets cool enough that I have to wear more than a t-shirt and jeans inside — or have to put on a hat any time I go outside (pretty much anything below 45F) — I turn into a near-hermit who turns down social invitations if they involve being outside for more than 5 minutes and makes lots of soups and stews and “meat and tater” meals.

    Mmmm…oatmeal. I love oatmeal for breakfast.

    Josh

    Then again, I don’t really like summer.Heat drives me nuts and makes me feel ill and cranky.

    That’s me. In cold weather, I can at least put on additional layers, but in the summer, even being naked isn’t enough to keep me from feeling miserable (partly because I’m cheap and refuse to have AC). My perfect place would be one where the temp was about 75F all year round. Warm enough for shorts and a t-shirt, but not so warm that you sweat just walking outside.

  291. 291
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    I googled that restaurant and almost plotzed when I saw “Bacon Happy Hour”.
    It made me sad that Bacon is the Chef’s name

    Did you read about what bacon happy hour entails?

  292. 292
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    I am currently working my way through 1,169 unread emails. Ninety nine percent require me to do absolutely nothing. I did, discover, however, that I got a raise, effective September 9. A within-grade step increase. I am now a GS-9, step 10. I can go no higher without going into management. WooHoo!

    Portia:

    Sorry.

  293. 293
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    Oh and happy Octoberfest

  294. 294
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Oggie:
    Surprise raise? Awesome! *high fives!*

  295. 295
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    Nice Og

  296. 296
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Audley:

    Oddly, it did come as a surprise. I thought I had to wait another year to max out.

    And my last fire includes 10 days at the new pay rate.

    I figured it up this morning while working on some travel documents. I worked, from Wednesday, September 5 through Wednesday, September 19, inclusive, a total of 230.5 hours. That is a day (and a bit) shy of 6 weeks of work in 15 days. No wonder I’m still tired.

  297. 297
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    If Märzen beer was the people of Earth, today I would be and overwhelming alien invading force from Mars.

    Or something like that.

  298. 298
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    An

    Stupid iPad posting

  299. 299
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Rev: BDC:

    so that was an iTpyo?

  300. 300
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    Yuk yuk

  301. 301
    chigau (違う)

    Rev
    re:Bacon Happy Hour
    mmmmm
    —-
    Yay Ogvorbis raise.

    Audley:
    Oddly

    :)

  302. 302
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Rev:

    Don’t you mean, “iYuk, iYuk”?

    Audley:
    Oddly

    :)

    Yes. That was intentional. Glad someone noticed.

  303. 303
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    Well…that was back when it was small sets and me plugging things into an Excel spreadsheet. Now that it’s me and SPSS, it’s less fun and more Y U NO LIKE ME?

    If it makes you feel any better, when I learned SPSS it was still text commands. Still have the flashbacks.

  304. 304
    Portia

    I’m trying Josh, really I am. I have always been terrible at adjusting. Maybe another cup of tea will help.

  305. 305
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    (when I learned SPSS

    For a very broad definition of “learned,” that is.)

  306. 306
    carlie

    Yay, trinioler!

    Thanks, Socio-Gen.

    I won’t go into details so not to offend a few commenters here, but if you come to Charleston I highly suggest The Macintosh.

    Is that some kind of sex move? O.o

  307. 307
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.
    I won’t go into details so not to offend a few commenters here, but if you come to Charleston I highly suggest The Macintosh.

    Is that some kind of sex move? O.o

    The Macintosh is a raincoat. Even outside of Charleston I strongly urge the use of barrier protection.

  308. 308
    Lynna, OM

    Map of Endeavor’s final flight path. I would not want to be that pilot/navigator.
    http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/09/21/14017414-endeavour-follows-flight-path-of-deflating-party-balloon

  309. 309
    chigau (違う)

    *sigh*
    That bread just ain’t gonna make itself.
    Oh, well, pizza for supper!

  310. 310
    Lynna, OM

    Here is some US coverage of Rush Limbaugh bloviating over shrinking penis size:
    http://www.salon.com/2012/09/21/rush_feminism_shrinks_penises/

    Excerpt:

    An Italian study found that penises are on average around 10 percent smaller today than 50 years ago. The study cited weight gain, pollution, stress and smoking as possible factors in the shrinkage, but Rush suggests otherwise.

    Scoffing at the idea that air pollution might influence our physical constitution, he stated, “I think it’s feminism… it’s tied to the last 50 years — the average size of [a male's] member is 10 percent smaller than 50 years — it has to be the feminazis, the chickification and everything else.”

  311. 311
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)
    (what the fuck is the gender neutral for one who harvests lobsters?)

    Lobster harvester?

    Lobstercatcher rolls off the tongue a little better.

    Lobsterbaiter?

  312. 312
    carlie

    Lobsterer?

  313. 313
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    Here is some US coverage of Rush Limbaugh bloviating over shrinking penis size:…

    When I was reading about that earlier, I was wondering, variable geek that I am, how one would go about operationalizing chickification.

  314. 314
    birgerjohansson

    THEY ARE HERE!!!!
    The green humanoids have arrived:

    “‘Nerdy’ Swede wins faux- Nobel for green-hair find” http://www.thelocal.se/43366/20120921/
    They are like Thetans, except they also have lobster-harvesting and penis-shrinking abilities.

  315. 315
    chigau (違う)

    chickification:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Jorgenson

  316. 316
    Setár, Elvenkitty

    Ogvorbis:

    Another suggestion: go to nhrs.com and look for chapters of the National Railway Historical Society that focus on the GN. Chances are very good that at least one of the chapters will either have someone, or know of someone, who has this information, including maps.

    I dunno, it seems that as far as my little project goes what I’ve found on Google is the best I can get, since it has all the old rail lines (most of which still exist; what remains of the NWSR and VV&E are still high-traffic corridors) marked clearly including date of construction. It’s not railroad-specific — I’m trying to construct a sort of geographical development timeline of the area, starting with the original trails, roads and rail lines.

    So, the rail part (at least, researching it) is complete. My trouble now is moreso with the roads and trails, so I’m probably going to have to de-anxiety and hit the archives for some old survey maps. While the current grid pattern of roads follows the original survey work that was done (indeed, most of the major roads were built by the settlers who originally owned the land these roads are on), a lot of the major trails have been built over in places if not completely. There’s also the matter of figuring out the former shores of Sumas Lake, though I think the pattern of farmland visible from Google Earth gives a reasonable estimate.

  317. 317
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    When I was reading about that earlier, I was wondering, variable geek that I am, how one would go about operationalizing chickification.

    I think that chickification is more of a process than an operation. I am still in the process of shedding my socialized sexism (and will continue to be until I die). If you think that women are human beings, deserving of the full rights and privileges of all human beings, you are well on your way.

    I do admit, though, that I read ‘chickification’ and picture, in my peurile mind, the process of killing, defeathering, gutting, chopping, marinating, breading, and deep frying birds. Then again, would chicken fried steak count as an example of chickification?

  318. 318
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    Unholy:
    Welcome
    ****

    I’m glad to be making money working this music fest, but wow, being outdoors on the beach in this heat standing for 16 hours is a tad rough. Still, I should get my rent paid.

  319. 319
    kristinc, now with added ventilation

    Threadrupt, but Carlie, I have a pair of Clarks Active Air heels that feel like sneakers. It’s miraculous unicorn magic. I bought them on eBay (secondhand) for I think $25. New, I think Clarks run from about $60 to maybe $150? and are very good comfort and quality for the price in my experience (similar to Dansko but less spendy).

  320. 320
    kristinc, now with added ventilation

    Ooh, ooh, I’ve spotted the Doctor! I feel very much like sort of a Time Vortex sleuth now.

  321. 321
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    I think that chickification is more of a process than an operation. I am still in the process of shedding my socialized sexism (and will continue to be until I die). If you think that women are human beings, deserving of the full rights and privileges of all human beings, you are well on your way.

    I can’t tell if these responses are just joking, but I’ll pretend they’re not, because, as you’ve been warned, I’m a variable geek.

    Operationalization refers to the process – the operations – of explicitly and clearly defining a variable and developing the means by which you’re going to measure and record it. So, for example, if the question was “What percentage of forest fires are caused by campers acting carelessly?” you’d have to operationalize not just “forest fires” but the other variables, including “campers acting carelessly” (How are you defining campers? What’s included in the category of acting carelessly and how do you measure it?).

    Operationalizing penis size would be relatively though not entirely straightforward, but chickification as a social condition would be rather tricky.

    Welcome to my world. :)

  322. 322
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    [LATELLA VOICE] Oh. Never mind. [/LATELLA VOICE]

    Yes, that was a lame attempt at a joke by someone who’s full experience with statistics was a class, in college, with minimal actual math but a whole lot of discussion on lying with statistics and how to spot some of the more egregious lies.

  323. 323
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    LOBSTER-CATCHERATOR!

    You know, “cooking and eating a whole lobster” is on my bucket list, along with finding the first person to say “bucket list” and kicking them in the shin.

    My birthday is next week, and I’m trying to figure out how to celebrate by myself in a town where I don’t know anybody, without getting alcohol poisoning and dying.

  324. 324
    Socio-gen, something something...

    SC:

    Operationalizing penis size would be relatively though not entirely straightforward, but chickification as a social condition would be rather tricky.

    Hmmm…

    What if we define “chickification” (for the purposes of this study) as “not engaging in stereotypical male behaviors.” Of course, we’d have to decide what stereotypical male behaviors are and then narrow the parameters. Say…

    * sports participation (type of sport, frequency of play)
    * sexual activity (frequency of sexual activity; # of partners last 30 days; last year; last 5 years;)
    * military service (served — yes/no; # of years; highest rank achieved)
    * violent behavior (threats toward others; physical confrontations; arrests)
    * non-violent behavior (# of alcoholic drinks consumed, speeding violations)

    Then maybe compare those to—

    Oh, wait. That was one of those hypothetical thingies, huh? Er…never mind. Carry on.

    Welcome to my world.

    It’s a nice one. :D

  325. 325
    kristinc, now with added ventilation

    LOBSTER-CATCHERATOR!
    … ATOR!

    /doofenshmirtz

  326. 326
    kristinc, now with added ventilation

    argh.

  327. 327
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    Hmmm…

    What if we define “chickification” (for the purposes of this study) as “not engaging in stereotypical male behaviors.”

    Ah. So Limbaugh could believe that individual men’s penises permanently shrink in direct response to exposure to feminism or in response to their own non-stereotypical (in our culture) male behavior. Somehow.

    Or, he’s thinking of chickification working as a social rather than an individual phenomenon. Somehow. In that case, your measures would have to be “socialized” and looked at in terms of policy, and our cases would be states or countries….

    Operationalization: always interesting.

    Oh, wait. That was one of those hypothetical thingies, huh?

    Sadly, no. :)

    It’s a nice one. :D

    It is, in its way. Sounds like you have the heart of a sociologist.

    ***

    Apropos of nothing, and I can’t remember if I’ve mentioned it before, but I voted (more than once*) as a kid to save Larry the Lobster.

    *At my best friend’s house. A .50 call from mine would have given my mother a conniption.

  328. 328
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    You know, “cooking and eating a whole lobster” is on my bucket list, along with finding the first person to say “bucket list” and kicking them in the shin.

    Keep in mind that, at least in Maine, you have to have a lobster license to harvest any lobster, even one in a tide pool. You’d do better to visit a lobster pound and buy one off the dock.

    *At my best friend’s house. A .50 call from mine would have given my mother a conniption.

    I read that and found myself wondering (a) how a machine gun (heavy) entered the discussion and (b) how you got your hands on a Browning .50 cal heavy machine gun. Then I reread it. Then I reread it again. Now I get it (yes, I really am that slow (history major, remember)).

  329. 329
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Oggie:
    Speaking of stats, when my mom was in college (SUNY school in the 70s), she took a statistics class that specifically taught how to lie with/manipulate numbers. I wish I could have taken a class like that!

  330. 330
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    I read that and found myself wondering (a) how a machine gun (heavy) entered the discussion and (b) how you got your hands on a Browning .50 cal heavy machine gun. Then I reread it. Then I reread it again. Now I get it (yes, I really am that slow (history major, remember)).

    :). I was looking for the cent key, and then gave up. There’s no cent key? I guess it’s in symbols.

    I’m an art history major. My brain is cluttered with things like “Giotto, Arena Chapel, 1305.” But you can’t blame me – the blue! the Lamentations!

  331. 331
    chigau (違う)

    ¢
    &cent;

  332. 332
    chigau (違う)

    We cooked lobster at home.
    Once.

  333. 333
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    “Consider the lobster.”

    (They’re often called “bugs,” incidentally.)

  334. 334
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    I’m an art history major. My brain is cluttered with things like “Giotto, Arena Chapel, 1305.” But you can’t blame me – the blue! the Lamentations!

    At least I majored in something useful. European military history. Which is why I currently interpret labour and industrial history. Hmm.

    I did spend time se4lling cars, though. Kinda mandatory for history majors to spend time in sales.

    We cooked lobster at home.
    Once.

    But did you have lobster races on the kitchen floor before boiling them?

  335. 335
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    Anyone have any experience with Omaha Steaks? I think I can use my Amazon gift card for Omaha Steaks. Steaks by mail… yummy?

  336. 336
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    OK. I’m out of the thread.

  337. 337
    chigau (違う)

    Ogvorbis
    No.

  338. 338
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    Dammit! SC left before I could post that I consider the lobster… delicious. :)

  339. 339
    Alethea Kuiper-Belt

    I consider the lobster… overrated. OK, it is quite delicious, but IMO not worth the money unless you are in Maine or somewhere similar.

  340. 340
    trinioler

    Why did SC leave?

  341. 341
    Josh, Official SpokesGay

    You know what? Even if you disagree with views such as SC’s on the ethical implications of meat-eating/lobster-boiling, it’s just fucked up to taunt her about it. This is an issue she cares very deeply about and it’s the height of cruel assholishness to jibe at her the way some of you do. You don’t have to like a person to draw some boundaries of decency in how you talk to them.

  342. 342
    Josh, Official SpokesGay

    Because, trin, people think it’s funny to make light of something she considers a deep moral wrong.

    One may not enjoy having the issue put in front of you by people like SC, but she doesn’t needle nearly so much as some of you mock and taunt. It’s disgusting.

  343. 343
    chigau (違う)

    trinioler
    SC is a vegan and finds graphic descriptions of carnivory to be, at the very least, distasteful.
    Especially that involving factory farming.

  344. 344
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    You know what, Josh? Not everyone knows every detail about every person who comments here. I don’t know fuck-all about SC’s views on the ethics of eating meat or boiling lobsters, and unless you want me to become telepathic…

  345. 345
    birgerjohansson

    The Onion has an article about Romney giving up, and using the remaining campaign days to proselyte for the Church of Latter-Day Saints.
    (just as I was about to press “submit”, I noticed I had written “campaign gays”. I suppose there are many “log cabin” Republicans, but I don’t see them speaking on behalf of the mormon church. Even self-delusion has limits)

  346. 346
    trinioler

    Oh.

    Yeah, its pretty fucking mean to SC like that.

  347. 347
    Josh, Official SpokesGay

    Bullshit Joe! You know goddamn well enough about SC to know it hurts her when you mock her veganism by talking about how you “consider lobster delicious.” It’s a pointed effort to hurt and you should damned well own it. You fucked up on that.

  348. 348
    birgerjohansson

    The Browning .50 cal heavy machine gun is for sissies. Now, the Russian 14.5 mm gun, on the other hand…
    — — — — — — — —
    –”Eating for Beauty.” What the FUCKING FUCK.

    Send in the daughter from the Addams family to straighten them out.
    I watched the series in the sixties and she made enough of an impression on me to remember it to this day.
    — — — — — — — — —
    (logs off to listen to Lovecraftian “backward messages” in “Rock Lobster”)

  349. 349
    Josh, Official SpokesGay

    On consideration—Joe, if you really don’t know that about SC, I apologize unreservedly. Your comment just looks like the perfect example of the shit she gets thrown at her. I thought you were aware of her views on this.

  350. 350
    chigau (違う)

    THIS IS THE LOUNGE!

  351. 351
    chigau (違う)

    sorry
    bad timing

  352. 352
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    Fuck, Josh… I guess you’re the mind reader and you know better than I do. Do you EVER give anyone the benefit of the doubt, or do you ALWAYS assume everyone has malice in their hearts? Do you think that I would intentionally cause harm to anyone, especially anyone here, in this place, where I owe you folks so much that even if I wanted to be an intentional asshole I’d restrain myself out of gratitude if not decency.

    I DIDN’T FUCKING KNOW, PERIOD.

  353. 353
    Josh, Official SpokesGay

    The error is mine. I’m so primed by recent events to be disappointed and shocked by people I thought I knew it’s warping my judgment. I’m truly sorry, Joe.

  354. 354
    Josh, Official SpokesGay

    And I apologize to the lounge. I’m going to slink away quietly. Carry on.

  355. 355
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    Thank you, Josh and trinioler. Very much.

    Joe, “Consider the Lobster” was a link – you don’t have to be telepathic, though I realize that it’s to a magazine that doesn’t ring critical on first glance.

    I should have known better than to be posting/reading here, probably.

  356. 356
    birgerjohansson

    If you want a more cheerful topic, I have been looking at a forum for fans of J.L. Bourne’s “Day By Day Armageddon” (one of the few well-written books about the zombie apocalypse)

    The readers are into the realistic feel of the novel, and the forum has lots of threads dedicated to how to configurate vehicle convoys, tactics et cetera.
    http://tacticalunderground.us/smf/

    I usually only see this dedication to detail when Tolkien readers debate the population density of Eriador, or space enthusiasts debate how to get a practical rail gun to launch payloads into Earth orbit.

  357. 357
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    SC, a simple “hey you’re pushing my buttons, knock it off” works for me. I’m sorry that I pushed your buttons, but I didn’t do it knowingly and I’ll try harder next time.

    SC, I clicked on your link, and closed it when I saw it was written by a sneering classist asshole who apparently can’t handle Styrofoam or sitting too close to poor people. That pushes MY buttons.

  358. 358
    chigau (違う)

    And on yet another topic, I overcooked the bread.
    It’s not burnt but it’s very crusty.

  359. 359
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    And on that note, I think I’ll fuck off for awhile.

  360. 360
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    And on yet another topic, I overcooked the bread.
    It’s not burnt but it’s very crusty.

    On a similar note, I made lentil stew last weekend, and followed the recipe I had (with regard to water and cooking times) for a batch and a half. There was almost no liquid around the lentils when I scooped them out and they were quite firm and almost crunchy when I ate some, the next day. I had way too much to do this week so I didn’t have time to do anything about it, but today I emptied the tupperwares of them into a bigger pot, added some water, and cooked them for another hour or so. Now the lentils appear to have softened and re-exuded water and it’s too liquidy for my taste, and possibly with burnt notes. *bangs head on wall*

  361. 361
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    …never mind, they came out well.

    Note to self: double cooking time of recipe.

    Also, my ad hoc chili powder seems to have worked out pretty nicely. :3

  362. 362
    chigau (違う)

    Azkyroth
    Fuck recipes, anyway.

  363. 363
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    SC, a simple “hey you’re pushing my buttons, knock it off” works for me. I’m sorry that I pushed your buttons, but I didn’t do it knowingly and I’ll try harder next time.

    OK, good.

    SC, I clicked on your link, and closed it when I saw it was written by a sneering classist asshole who apparently can’t handle Styrofoam or sitting too close to poor people. That pushes MY buttons.

    That’s too bad. I know virtually nothing about David Foster Wallace. I’m sure I’d disagree with him about a lot (though I hate Styrofoam), but I think it’s a thoughtful piece and offered it in that spirit. The ones affected by your glib dismissal won’t be Wallace, who’s dead, but nonhuman animals.

    If you look at the history of my blog, you’ll see that I have a long history of posting in support of New England fishing communities. It hasn’t been easy for me to take my position, and I don’t turn against them when I do it,* but I can tell you that while I enjoyed eating lobsters their deliciousness hasn’t even been a minor factor in my decisions. It hasn’t been a factor at all. I don’t have to kill and eat them, and I’m not going to.

    *Gloucester, for its own sake, should promote itself as an arts and marine biology and history research site. Other towns could do the same.

  364. 364
    Deborah

    @273 Portia We still have the air conditioning on some days…

    @284 Josh I with you on the heat, and then I live in a place where pretty much everyone agrees the heat and humidity is oppressive. It’s ok, I stay in inside.

    @292 Ogvorbis Congratulations!

  365. 365
    trinioler

    In terms of vegetarian stuff…

    I made apple pockets yesterday! They were pretty good, but messed up a bit on the execution.

    The butter and the sugar ended up leaking out and wrecking the tops. It was suggested on PET to add some corn starch to soak up the extra liquid which I’ll be trying next time…. once my arm recovers from kneading pastry dough. xdd

    (Apple pockets are basically little calzone-like pastries, with apple slices, brown sugar, pumpkin pie spice, and butter.)

  366. 366
    Portia

    Deborahbell, I was just thinking about you, hope you are well.

    I hate air conditioning. I prefer to live in a house with shade trees, if I can. I’ve been spoiled to live in a (162 year old, take that, Josh!) brick house that stayed a little cool in this oppressive summer. But, normal summers don’t bother me. I don’t turn on the a/c til it’s three digits outside. I’m weird. I just can’t stand to be cold.

    Additionally, I’m all the more jealous of you because I’ve been contemplating turning on the heat tonight because it’s supposed to be down to freezing temperatures. I am cheap, I put it off as long as possible for sentimental reasons though.

    Trinioler, can I trouble you to re-teach me the way to add scroll-over titles to my links? I saved it last time you explained but now can’t make it work.

  367. 367
    trinioler

    Hey Portia.

    You only need the titles if you’re linking to an image.

    <a href=”http://bugbear.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/blue-reef-aquarium-baby-cuttlefish.jpg” title=”Cuddle the cuttlefish!”>Cuddlefish!</a>

    This translates into Cuddlefish!

    The title part can come before the href part, or vice versa. It doesn’t matter.

  368. 368
    Portia

    Ooooooooh. Thanks for clearing that up for me. : )

  369. 369
    Portia

    I just found out that an acquaintance’s pro se case was granted cert by the U.S. Supreme Court. This acquaintance is one of the most extreme liberturdian conspiracy theorist babble-thumpers I’ve ever known. I feel like everything I know is wrong.

  370. 370
    Jessa

    SC,

    FWIW, your posts about ethical eating have made an impact on me. A few years ago, I would have been one of those people who gave you what I believed were completely rational reasons why I couldn’t go vegan. And now I realize that my push-back was based on ignorance. I’m allergic to tree nuts, and my GI tract has a hostile relationship to soy, so I concluded that there was no way that I could get protein and be happy on a vegan diet, because I thought that I’d just be eating beans for the rest of my life.

    I still occasionally eat meat, but I realize that it’s not ethically supportable to do so. I’m working towards veganism, but my experience in cooking is heavily meat-based, so I don’t currently have the knowledge or skill to make tasty vegan meals. I’m working towards it, though. So thank you for that.

  371. 371
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    Portia, we’re building, well the people we hired are that is, an eight star energy rated home. Seven star buildings in this region maintain 18-25c temps in winter without any supplemental heating. We’re expecting similar performance in summer. I love the old farm houses around here but you can’t get that kind of thermal performance from anything that looks like a traditional house. The builders are telling us that it will be the first house in the shire with a rating that good and are giving us a pretty good deal to make it happen. This is a rare case where being an early adopter is cheaper.

    We sign the last papers tomorrow and the builders start breaking ground in a week or so. I’m planning on taking a photo a day from the same spot and putting together a time-lapse of the construction.

    In other esquire news we’ve now planted 13 fruit trees on the block! Mind you, if half survive I’ll be surprised.

  372. 372
    chigau (違う)

    To quote something just said at the party on the right, referring to herself, “Polly needs a punch in the face. teehee.”
    I may need to go inside.

  373. 373
    Portia

    FossilFishy, that’s excellent! I do hate that old houses are least efficient, because they charm me so. I hope the construction goes without any major hiccups.

    I love fruit trees! I grew up in an area of Michigan where they were just all over the place. What kind did you plant? I hope they flourish.

  374. 374
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    Truth be told I have no idea what they all are. For sure we have Gala and Fuji apples, two types of peach, nectarines, pears (two types maybe) nashi, navel oranges, er cherries I think and there’s one hole left for a Mandarin. Mind you, that hole is half full of water and there’s a big frog living in it. I put some branches down into it so it can climb out, I hope it’s gone before we have a tree to plant.

    At the moment we’re living in a brick farm house built in the 50′s. According to on on-line energy tracker it’s costing us the same as a 12 family home to heat, and we’re only heating the kitchen regularly and the lounge room when we want to watch tv. On a winter’s morning it’s often 6c in the bedroom when I wake up. I sleep with a toque and I’ve got to say that getting out of bed on the mornings when I can see my breath indoors is pretty damn hard.

    I’m pretty confident the build will go smoothly. The people who designed it are also the builders so there will be no dramas between design and construction. Mind you, they’re Jehovah Witnesses. At our first meeting we were talking about passive solar features, like venting up high to release the rising air and one of them said: “Yes, God made….” and he slammed to a stop. The look that passed between him and his wife, the designer, was a clear “Look honey, we talked about this, no god talk with the clients.” To his credit he didn’t try and hide it, he finished his thought, that god made it so hot air rises and said “Look, we’re Jehovah Witnesses. I hope that’s not a problem.” To which I responded “I’m an atheist, I hope that’s not a problem.” and that was that. Now two years later we still get along well enough to actually get this thing built.

  375. 375
    Portia

    Sounds like you’re in for some fruity surprises. (Haven’t seen Louis in a while, trying to see if he’ll take the bait). Enjoy that harvest.

    At my mom’s house in Michigan, I was reading in her living room and happened to glance at the window. And I thought something I’ve never though before: “Is that frog on the inside or the outside?”

    Wow, that’s a hefty heating bill. I’m not looking forward to mine during the winter (only lived here since spring) since the ceilings are about 12 feet high.

    It’s so funny to me the way religious minds work. It’s not the laws of physics, it’s “God made hot air so it rises.” Just…odd. Even when I was religious I don’t think I had quite those thought patterns. But JWs are a special breed, I think. I’m glad that they have been good to work with though. It has to be nice to have the building/designing process streamlined.

  376. 376
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    The things is going to have solar hot water, photovoltaics even thought the feed in tariff is shit and we can’t afford batteries, massive rainwater tanks, wool roof insulation and a worm farm septic system. The cladding and roof are going to be corrugated steel because of it’s thermal performance, bushfire safety and the full recyclable nature of the offcuts. Not exactly off grid, but a pretty significant reduction in our carbon foot print.

  377. 377
    chigau (違う)

    FossilFishy
    You’re growing

    Gala and Fuji apples, two types of peach, nectarines, pears (two types maybe) nashi, navel oranges, er cherries I think and there’s one hole left for a Mandarin.

    in the same place???
    Without divulging specific information, where the bleep do you live?

  378. 378
    Portia

    Yeah, the only thing I wouldn’t think would work with the others is oranges, but what do I know. The others play pretty nicely together, or rather, enjoy the same conditions.

    FossilFishy, that house sounds pretty kickass. Good for you and yours. Even cooler that it’s not breaking the bank, so to speak. You’re in Australia, no?

  379. 379
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    Heh, we’ve been averaging two or three frog captures inside the house a year since we’ve been here. A lot better to deal with than the Huntsman spiders. *Trigger warning for too many legs and too many eyes* [shudders]

  380. 380
    Portia

    Thank you for the warning. I am so not a fan of spiders. Frogs gross me out sometimes, but not nearly so much as spiders terrify me. Centipedes too. Ok I need to take some deep breaths now…

  381. 381
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    SC,

    FWIW, your posts about ethical eating have made an impact on me. A few years ago, I would have been one of those people who gave you what I believed were completely rational reasons why I couldn’t go vegan. And now I realize that my push-back was based on ignorance.

    Jessa, that means so much to me. (A few years ago, I would’ve been right there with you.) The past month has been especially difficult, and I appreciate the support and open minds of people here.

    I still occasionally eat meat, but I realize that it’s not ethically supportable to do so. I’m working towards veganism, but my experience in cooking is heavily meat-based, so I don’t currently have the knowledge or skill to make tasty vegan meals.

    I don’t, either,* and I’m working on it, too. It’s been fun overall. I’m finding that I like about 75% of the new things I try, which I think is pretty good! (And I’m coming to appreciate new ingredients all the time.) My sister sent this recipe a few weeks ago – I made them for a party and they were great. The book, Veganomicon, is the one people rave about. I don’t have it yet, but I’ve printed several of the recipes from her site and can’t wait to have a go at them.

    Please let me know if you make anything and it works out! (Those apple turnovers sound delicious, by the way, and I’m certain I could do a vegan version….)

    *My previous experience was mostly cheese-based. :)

  382. 382
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    Yup, we’re in Alpine Victoria. This is a pretty interesting part of Australia in that it can get quite hot here in summer but there’s good(ish) rainfall and cool winters. The trouble with houses here is they’re all designed for Australia in the sense of Tropical Queensland or the Northern Territories. In our region householders spend way more on heating than the do cooling but it’s only in the last decade or so that building practices started to reflect that.

    All of those species grow here. I positively does my head in, being a Canadian kid, the stuff that grows here. Hell, the fact that there’s such a thing as a winter harvest boggles me.

  383. 383
    Portia

    Interesting. I’m embarrassingly ignorant of Australian geography and climate. Wikipedia is helping me understand what you’re talking about though :) I didn’t know there were Alps in Australia.

    Winter harvest…that would seem weird to me too. It’s honestly odd to me that I’m even baling hay this late in the year. But then it’s been a weird year.

  384. 384
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    Dammit, preview, always preview. Sigh.

    I’ve been vegi for 11 years now, more for ecological reasons than ethical, though that’s a part of it too. I can’t seem to give up cheese though, ’tis my bacon if you’ll pardon the meaty metaphor. We now have laying hens that are truly free range in that we let them out of their coop in the morning to fend for themselves and only lock them up at night to discourage the foxes. I say discourage because we lose enough each year to predators that I’ve don’t learn their names and instead think of them as Foxfoodone, Foxfoodtwo and so on. We’ve found a place that rescues battery hens that we’ll use the next time there’s a need.

  385. 385
    chigau (違う)

    From the party next door, re: the impending Hockey-player strike*,
    “I’m on the side of the Owners. They’re taking all the risks.”
    *This is Canada. Hockey trumps everything.

  386. 386
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    Well Alps is being a bit generous. As someone who lived within a 4 hour drive of the Rockies most of the mountains here look pretty modest. I like to tease the locals by telling them that the first time Mount Buffalo was pointed out to me I peered around quizzically and said “What? Behind the hill? I don’t see a mountain.”

    I love the misconceptions about Australia I get from North American suppliers. More often than not when I talk to one on the phone they ask me how the surfing is. A side effect of being in the bicycle industry, there’s a lot of crossover between mountainbike culture and surf culture I think. My standard response is “Bad, really, really bad.”

    That said, when I do get to the coast here the beaches are, are, well, magnificent to say the least. The first one I went to was 4km of white sand and on a sunny Saturday afternoon there were only a half dozen other people in sight. It wasn’t near of a city of course, Sydney and the likes beaches can be very crowded. My wife used “Where’s the beach? I don’t see a beach.” The first time we visited a Canadian one together. :)

  387. 387
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    Gah, I don’t miss hockey idiocy. I was hoping that moving here would mean that I didn’t have to defend my lack of interest in any sport other than cycling. But of course I have Footy culture to contend with and all the same arguments apply.

  388. 388
    trinioler

    Well, solved the mystery of the weird tremors/shakes/quivers. ‘

    Anxiety/stress attack.

    THos fuckinge fuckers fuck fuck fuck posted the fucking “A+Scribe is A+ bullying” video in a completely non-relevant thread has driven me back into the shakes. So fucking hard to type.

  389. 389
    chigau (違う)

    trinioler
    words on a screen
    words on a screen
    words on a screen
    words on a screen
    words on a screen
    words on a screen
    repeat as needed
    (and rum)
    repeat as needed
    *hugs*
    repeat as needed

  390. 390
    Jessa

    trinioler:

    (hugs). It sucks that what started as a way to make the discussion more accessible to people instead becomes a target for the detractors.

  391. 391
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    “I’m on the side of the Owners. They’re taking all the risks.”

    “Hey, kid from a sad mining town with little formal education, who’s dedicated your life (and teeth) to a single goal and whose any serious injury will sideline your career…Stop playing it so fucking safe, ingrate. There are financiers risking townhouses for you.”

  392. 392
    Hekuni Cat, MQG

    trinioler – *more hugs*

  393. 393
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    trinioler, hugs from me too if you want ‘em. Sometimes the best thing to do is to walk away and recharge to fight again another day.

  394. 394
    chigau (違う)

    SC #391
    and don’t forget the Fans.
    Whatever will they do without watching hockey on TV every night?

  395. 395
    AJ Milne

    So fucking hard to type.

    What is that? Thread stalking w/ YouTube videos, now?

    Nice.

    I figure it’d be too nosy to ask if whoever diagnosed you suggested any coping strategies/exercises, so on. And while on the one hand, I’d just sort of assume they’d at least put you on track toward dealing with such, given the symptoms you described…

    Well, I guess I really don’t know. So I’ll just offer, completely, totally unsolicited, and possibly incredibly presumptuously, that when my brain starts running too hot, I do one or more of:

    1) Pet a cat
    2) Play with one of my kids
    3) Pick up a violin, guitar, or cello and work on a piece
    4) Hit the gym or exercise bike

    Dunno if any of that is any use. Anyway: my sympathies.

  396. 396
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    I weep for the fans.

    Weep.

  397. 397
    trinioler

    I wasn’t diagnosed previously, but its pretty obvious what it is when it happens right at the same time I’m completely overwhelmed…

    I will have to see someone about this.

    Are there any OTC minor relaxants I can get?

  398. 398
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    Hmm. Me giving up cheese or eggs is simply not going to happen. On the other hand, I’m hoping to have my own hens eventually, and increase my springing-for-ethically-produced cheese to the extent possible.

    (Anyone know of a *good* site for checking up on the latter?)

  399. 399
    dysomniak "They are unanimous in their hate for me, and I welcome their hatred!"

    I love hockey. Know what I love more? Labor rights.

  400. 400
    AJ Milne

    397/trinolier:

    I don’t know of any OTC stuff. Tried a quick Google, got a lot of naturopathic woo. Man, there is just too much of that stuff in the world.

    I know you probably don’t need one more thing to think about right now, but I think you’re right: see someone.

    … in the meanwhile, maybe just something hot and soothing? Herbal tea? Avoid caffeinated, I’d say. I’d also emphasize again exercise (it really is widely recommended, is my understanding, and sure as hell works for me), but you know: not a doctor.

    I went through a bout of those just a few years back, now. A bit like yours, actually, but then maybe they usually are. Dunno. Again: not at all a doctor…

    But it wasn’t fun. So again: sympathies.

  401. 401
    AJ Milne

    Re the hockey strike thing, I dunno. As I don’t really follow the sport*, I guess it’s at least convenient to me when people say bitter and obnoxiously stupid things about unions and labour during the strikes…

    … that’s how I track that there’s still one on.

    (*/It’s actually allowed in Canada, now, not to be. But we had to amend the constitution. And we only squeaked it through the legislature at all ‘cos all the fans were at a game.)

  402. 402
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    There’s a question on the Australian citizenship test about a famous cricketer. I wish I was kidding.

  403. 403
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    I’ve been trying to think of a Canadian equivalent. Who was the Brandford Biped perhaps? The trouble is there’s no one player who was uniformly revered.

  404. 404
    chigau (違う)

    FossilFishy

    There’s a question on the Australian citizenship test about a famous cricketer.

    I cannot stop laughing.
    Really.
    The Canadian one has questions about Sir John A. and railroads.

  405. 405
    chigau (違う)

    FossilFishy
    WAYNE GRETZKY.
    (sorry. didn’t mean to shout)

  406. 406
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    Very good chigau! Here’s your gold star with crossed sticks. Mind you, being an Edmontonian not knowing that answer would get you lynched. By the way, I lived there for almost 20 years before I moved to Australia. I used to manage the Wee Book Inn on Whyte Ave.

  407. 407
    chigau (違う)

    FossilFishy
    huh. small world.
    I expect I bought a few™ books from you.

  408. 408
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    Probably, though mostly I bought books and did office work upstairs. I do think that running into someone here with whom I’ve had an acquaintance was pretty likely given the traffic that Phayrngula gets and the huge numbers of customers I served over the years.

  409. 409
    strange gods before me ॐ

    Fine comment by tigtog on the importance of talking about the weather.

  410. 410
    Markita Lynda—threadrupt

    Oh, look! Chick-fil-A was lying about not funding anti-gay legislation.

    it appears that just days after Chick-fil-A had agreed to stop funding bigoted groups, Dan Cathy on September 18th, tweeted a photo from a fund raiser for the anti-LBGT group Marriage and Family Foundation. The WinShape Foundation which Chick-fil-A operates was hosting a 200 mile couple’s motorcycle ride called “WinShape Ride for the Family” with an entry fee of $3,500 per couple with options to pledge $5,000, $10,000, or $15,000 to Marriage and Family Foundation. In order not to appear to be donating to the group, participants were asked to make checks payable to Marriage and Family Foundation and not the WinShape Foundation or Chick-fil-A. Sponsorship packages were reported to have displayed the Chick-fil-A logo as well as that of the WinShape Foundation.

  411. 411
    Markita Lynda—threadrupt

    If Michael Behe knew about this, he’d declare that it was possible to ever complete a chess game.

    An analysis of chess’s [complexity] in Wired determined that the number of possible positions in an average 40-move game is 10 to the 128th power, a sum “vastly larger than the number of atoms in the known universe.”

  412. 412
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    Speaking of the likeliness of events, I’ve been enjoying this site: The Odds Must be Crazy as featured on the Skepticality podcast, though the colour scheme does my eyes in after a while.

  413. 413
    Pteryxx

    Following up on Chick-fil-A’s changefail:

    http://www.advocate.com/business/2012/09/20/chick-fil-raising-money-very-week-anti-marriage-equality-group

    Although Chick-fil-A supposedly assured a Chicago alderman that it would stop donating to antigay groups, this week it held a fundraiser for one anyway.

    [...]

    Although the company’s foundation might not be donating directly, Chick-fil-A President Dan Cathy tweeted a photo on Tuesday from the 2012 WinShape Ride for the Family. He wrote alongside the picture of a pack of motorcyclists: “WinShape Ride for the Family bikers locked and loaded for 200 mile ride to Wilmington out of Charleston.”

    That long ride is a fundraiser for an organization that helps lobby against marriage equality. Registration forms for the event ask that checks be sent, not to the WinShape Foundation that Chick-fil-A operates, but directly to the Marriage and Family Foundation at 5200 Buffington Road in Atlanta, Ga.

    The forms say the ride fee is $3,500 for each individual or couple. But sponsorship packages posted online show that organizations could pledge $5,000 for “silver” status, $10,000 for “gold” or $15,000 and more to reach “platinum.” The Chick-fil-A logo accompanies everything, and so does the WinShape name, but it’s unclear whether the foundation continues to make donations.

    The Marriage and Family Foundation was not only included in the investigation by Equality Matters of the fast-food chain’s questionable giving history, it was identified as the top antigay recipient in 2010. WinShape had given more than $1 million to the group in 2010 alone.

    Equality Matters explained the group’s history in detail. It was originally named the Marriage and Family Legacy Fund when it was founded in 2007 by a member of the Cathy family. In fact, the current Buffington Road address in Atlanta is now shared by Chick-fil-A’s headquarters.

    See also:

    http://www.advocate.com/business/2012/09/22/chick-fil-president-dan-cathy-assures-mike-huckabee-nothing-has-changed

  414. 414
    Ichthyic

    There’s a question on the Australian citizenship test about a famous cricketer. I wish I was kidding.

    oh, living here in Hobbitton, I completely get that.

    I’m STILL awaiting residency (3 years now…), but I have no doubts there will be some question on the citizenship exam about the All Blacks.

  415. 415
    Pteryxx

    More rage-inducing but valuable information, via BoingBoing.

    First, how pharma companies systemically suppress negative clinical trial outcomes:

    Writing in the Guardian, Ben Goldacre reveals the shocking truth about the drugs that doctors prescribe: thanks to aggressive manipulation from the pharmaceutical companies and passivity from regulators, doctors often don’t know that the drugs were ineffective (or harmful) in a majority of their clinical trials. That’s because pharma companies set up their trials so that they the right to terminate ones that look unpromising (or stop them early if they look promising and report on the result partway through as though it reflected the whole trial), and to simply suppress the results of negative trials.

    As a result, doctors — even doctors who do their homework and pay close attention to the published trials, examining their methodology carefully — end up prescribing useless (or harmful) medicines. And according to Goldacre, this is true of all doctors in every country, because every country’s regulators allow pharmaceutical companies to cynically manipulate research outcomes to increase their profits. As Goldacre points out, a 2010 Harvard/Toronto study showed that “85% of the industry-funded studies were positive, but only 50% of the government-funded trials were” — and in another analysis, industry-funded trials of statins “were 20 times more likely to give results favouring the test drug.”

    Boingboing link:

    http://boingboing.net/2012/09/22/pharmaceutical-companies-delib.html

    Guardian article with long excerpt from Goldacre’s book “Bad Pharma”:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/sep/21/drugs-industry-scandal-ben-goldacre

    How DRM screws people with visual disabilities:

    READ PART 1: Going blind in a digital world: The road to reclaiming my web sight

    So, with very many non-web applications on desktops or mobile, the developers don’t bother adding accessibility features such as font, colour or layout customisations: what business they lose is judged less important than getting things out of the door on time and to budget.

    There is no competitive or legislative pressure on them to do this, so it doesn’t get done. To some extent, that is compensated for by OS features and additional utilities that can change screen size or scrape text and transform it. To a greater extent, we are free to choose other solutions and bypass the worst sinners.

    READ PART 2: Tech for the visually impaired will bring tears to your eyes

    None of that is true when DRM appears. With DRM, the commercial model of the provider goes beyond an application or a service. It is designed to constrain the customer to using something in only the way approved by the content provider, and it has legal backing.

    [...]

    Getting this far had taken me half an hour fighting my way through a nest of misery and frustration with broken eyes and a sinking heart. Along the way, I’d been bombarded by marketing messages telling me to “enjoy the experience” and “enjoy your book”.

    Reader, I wept. Marketing departments, here’s a top tip: if your customer is reduced to actual, hot, stinging tears, you may wish to fine-tune your messaging.

    This is the reward you get for being disabled and wanting to do the right thing. This is how the world’s most splendid machine for freeing our minds from our physical shackles is itself being shackled. This is what will happen to all of you reading this as you get old. I know this, I’ve done the research: most of you will start to go blind before you die.

    Original ZDNet article on digital media, digital communication, and visual impairment:

    http://www.zdnet.com/going-blind-drm-will-dim-your-world-7000004586/

    via BB here:

    http://boingboing.net/2012/09/22/how-drm-screws-people-with-vis.html

  416. 416
    Ichthyic

    chickification:

    hey, when I was growing up, that always referred to the frequented sayings of one Chick Hearn, famous sportscaster for the LA Lakers.

  417. 417
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    Guardian article with long excerpt from Goldacre’s book “Bad Pharma”:…

    Goldacre posted the other day about how excited he is that his book’s finally coming out. I then learned that while it’ll be available later this week in the UK I can’t get it for my Kindle here in the US until January. Not happy.

  418. 418
    Ichthyic

    I then learned that while it’ll be available later this week in the UK

    if it’s available for dl in the UK, you can use a tunneling service to make it look like your puter is in the UK.

    there are several free ones out there that would suffice.

    I use a paid one that works very well for accessing BBC stuff, for example.

    https://www.privatetunnel.com/

    you pay a small amount for a reserved amount of total bandwidth that never expires.

    there are lots of others that are free that would be fine for a small download like a book.

    I’d normally recommend just using a proxy server, but I think the larger distributors are wise to that now, and tend to block most of them.

    just google “free tunneling” if you want the many free options out there.

    also, I think there are a couple of other solutions others have suggested here in the past that don’t use proxy OR tunneling, but I can’t recall what those were now.

  419. 419
    Sili

    There’s a question on the Australian citizenship test about a famous cricketer. I wish I was kidding.

    Depending on the level of fame it makes sense.

    It can be important to know the heroes and myths of the culture one lives in. I do not advocate reading the Bible, but metaphors like “David and Goliath”, “Seven years for Rachel and seven years for Lea” or “The road to Damascus” are convenient mental shortcuts, and if one doesn’t understand such references, it’ll be more difficult to get along in a given culture.

  420. 420
    Ichthyic

    Kindles do allow you to sideload books, yeah?

    because in case it wasn’t clear, I was talking about downloading the book from the UK and then sideloading it onto your kindle.

  421. 421
    Sunday Afternoon

    Just a passing comment that I have just arrived at my hotel in Yokohama in Japan and browsed to FTB to discover adverts in Japanese – megacool!

    Then I VPN’d into work in California and the adverts reverted to being in English. The solution? Log out of work of course!

  422. 422
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    Ichthyic, I’ve been here for four years now and I believe I can take the citizenship test this year. I’m going to do it because I believe in fully participating in the society in which I live, but it’s not vital that I do. I’m on a spousal visa that grants me damn near full rights and can be renewed indefinitely AFAIK, so long as I stay married and out of legal trouble.

    Much as Goldacre’s book is needed, I hate that the alt-med crowd are going to use it to justify their bogus claims.

  423. 423
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    Sili, yeah I get that. But cricket doesn’t appear to be a major part of culture here anymore. The vast majority of people I meet are pretty ‘meh’ about it. Pure anecdote of course. I also have a problem with the glorification of sport above other forms of entertainment. Why not a question about Joan Sutherland? She had worldwide acclaim on a level of Donald Bradman’s and perhaps even greater.

  424. 424
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Even if you disagree with views such as SC’s on the ethical implications of meat-eating/lobster-boiling, it’s just fucked up to taunt her about it. This is an issue she cares very deeply about and it’s the height of cruel assholishness to jibe at her the way some of you do. You don’t have to like a person to draw some boundaries of decency in how you talk to them.

    I apologize profusely. I was not trying to taunt or jibe in any ways. I’m sorry.

    Because, trin, people think it’s funny to make light of something she considers a deep moral wrong.

    I’m sorry. Really. I did not intend (yes, I know that intention means squat) to attack SC. I screwed up and chose my words very poorly.

    You know goddamn well enough about SC to know it hurts her when you mock her veganism by talking about how you “consider lobster delicious.” It’s a pointed effort to hurt and you should damned well own it. You fucked up on that.

    That was not Joe who wrote about boiling lobster, that was me. I fucked up.

    Anyway, I guess I . . . something. Sorry.

  425. 425
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    SC:

    I apologize for my insensitivity. I was out of line and will try, very hard, to not let it happen again. It was not intentional on my part, but I still hurt you and that is not acceptable nor is that an excuse. Sorry.

  426. 426
    Setár, Elvenkitty

    ugh grr rage.

    I have this problem with having moments of complete and total cluelessness. Today, it happened to be leaving pretty well every pocket on my backpack open; as a result, I wrecked the bowl for my favourite pipe.

    What I hate most isn’t having to shell out another goddamn 20 bucks I can barely afford or the fact this is a recurring problem since forever with more important stuff such as keys and wallets and ipods having gone missing. It’s the fact that I was never fucking equipped to deal with this in the first place. I was expected to just magically not lose these things and every time I did, no matter how important or how many times I’d lost said important thing, it was just my fault. I didn’t take care of my stuff well enough, and so don’t deserve nice things.

    Fuck you, Just World Family From Hell.

  427. 427
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    Thanks, Ogvorbis. No worries at all. I appreciate what you’ve said. Please stop feeling bad!

    Speaking of lying with statistics, by the way, Goldacre’s excerpt reminded me of a blogger, 1 Boring Old Man, whose work on Study 329 (the one at the heart of the recent $3 billion fine for GSK) has been enlightening.

    Goldacre writes:

    In fact, Nissen’s analysis could only be done at all because of a very unusual court judgment. In 2004, when GSK was caught out withholding data showing evidence of serious side-effects from paroxetine in children, their bad behaviour resulted in a US court case over allegations of fraud, the settlement of which, alongside a significant payout, required GSK to commit to posting clinical trial results on a public website.

    But, in news that should surprise no one, they haven’t been entirely committed to posting all of the information. Since people caught them out on it, the raw data have been posted, and 1BOM has gone to work on them (see his links there to earlier posts). He’s one of many calling for the Study 329 paper to be retracted. Not only has that not happened, but Brown U. is apparently not going to take any action against Keller.

    ***

    Kindles do allow you to sideload books, yeah?

    I don’t know…what that even means. :) I sense I’ll be waiting for January.

    Now, when’s PZ’s book coming out?

  428. 428
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    And to bring things full circle, 1BOM’s most recent post is praise for Goldacre.

  429. 429
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    SC,
    Last I heard from Amazon, PZ’s book is coming out in August of 2013, but they’re not really sure.

  430. 430
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    Oh, and speaking of people calling for a retraction, Alison Bass would maybe be a good person to invite to speak at skeptic events.

  431. 431
    ChasCPeterson

    Sounds like you have the heart of a sociologist.

    So do I.
    In a jar of formalin bwahahahaha

    They’re often called “bugs,” incidentally.

    They’re often called ‘bugs’ deliberately and repeatedly too.
    Well, they are bugs (vernacular sense). Decapod crustaceans are pretty closely related to insects.
    Thanks for linking the DFW piece.

    it was written by a sneering classist asshole who apparently can’t handle Styrofoam or sitting too close to poor people.

    What?

  432. 432
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Hi everybody
    I’m totally ‘rupt but had the most wonderfullest weekend at my friends. Food was great, matched by the company, kids were little angels (well, why shouldn’t they have been? They had a garden and a dog and a coop of chickens and a rabbit for playing and ate about 3 lbs of self-picked nuts. They also showed the dog that those annoying hard balls contain a delicious nut.)
    Also, since we took a lot of baby stuff with us, I know have a desk, for the first time in 5 years that can be actually accessed. Need to clean everything up, but it’s promising.

  433. 433
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    If anyone wanted the recipe for the brownies from the other day…

    here you go

  434. 434
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Holy shit, Rev. O.o

    (I have everything but the cherries. Hmmmm…. what to sub…)

  435. 435
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Cranberries?

  436. 436
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    I was going to say cranberries or any dried tart fruity thing would work. Currants might rock too.

  437. 437
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Beatrice:
    Brilliant! I think I have a project for tomorrow!

  438. 438
    irisvanderpluym

    Setár, genderqueer Elf-Sheriff of Atheism+:

    I’m terrible with my stuff, too. I lose things, break things, forget things — I left a bag at a pizza place yesterday.

    But I like to think I make up for this failing by being very good with my people.

    Also: I quoted you (approvingly) in a post recently. It was a sentence from this comment of yours:

    There is also the phenomenon of the self-identified “centrist” or “independent”, who “sits on the fence” complaining about “both sides” all the time, even though the regressives’ conduct involves strawmen, silencing tactics, lies, threats and overall dishonesty and bullying while the liberals’ involves calling out that conduct.

    Well said.

  439. 439
    Socio-gen, something something...

    Good morning everyone! Fun-filled day ahead: finishing up my 8-page paper on Chandra Mohanty and global feminism and then editing/revising, cleaning, grocery shopping, studying for a test on Tuesday, and later this evening, watching Doctor Who with the adopta-nephew. Good times…

    SC:

    Sounds like you have the heart of a sociologist.

    That is one of the nicest compliments I’ve ever received!

    Re: meat-eating
    Recently (Lounge #? with the pig) you made me consider my own ethical stance when it comes to eating meat. While I agree in some areas and disagree in others (such as: against industrial farming, not against eating beef) and I doubt I’ll ever become a vegetarian, much less a vegan, I appreciate having to think about and truly own my position on the issue, and make changes as necessary to live up to that.

    The current thread reminded me (yet again) that I have to work harder to be aware of the sensitivities of others. So, I offer my very belated apologies for my previous insensitivity — and for not apologizing sooner.

    Sili:

    and if one doesn’t understand such references, it’ll be more difficult to get along in a given culture.

    Yup. My cousin and her husband are both atheists (although quiet ones due to their occupations) and have raised their son without religion. When a middle-school teacher used the phrase “like Jonah and the whale” as a shorthand for “being punished into doing what you’re supposed to do,” everyone else in YoungCousin’s class understood it instantly.

    Of course, his confusion (and the explanation that he was an atheist) led to an entire class of kids being aghast that there was an actual, admitted atheist living and walking amongst them just like a normal person.

    Then, after some discussion, it turned out that about a quarter of the class were non-believers who only go to church because their parents make them.

    FossilFishy:

    Much as Goldacre’s book is needed, I hate that the alt-med crowd are going to use it to justify their bogus claims.

    Same here. One of my brothers, whom I adore and respect in many ways, and his girlfriend are quite the alt-med fanatics. As in, they believe my Addison’s disease could be cured if I just took these “natural” herb combinations. Which, if it worked, would probably qualify as a genuine fucking miracle, considering less than 10% of my adrenal cortex remains.

    During the GF’s entire pregnancy, I’ve had to bite my tongue (sometimes literally) at some of the nonsense they’ve bought into — and oh my non-existent god, the woo-motherhood stuff! Listening to them, I genuinely fear for the life of that child — they may well end up killing hir by failing to seek proper medical treatment. The only time I’ve spoken up was when they talked about not vaccinating.

    Rev. BDC:
    Mmmm….

    *adds “make brownies” to the to-do list*

  440. 440
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    It may be difficult to remember to close the pockets on your backpack, but magic isn’t required.

    Maybe you should get one of those backpacks that opens at the top and closes by means of a drawstring. You could consider it an investment against future bowl-loss.

  441. 441
  442. 442
    Antiochus Epiphanes
    it was written by a sneering classist asshole who apparently can’t handle Styrofoam or sitting too close to poor people.

    What?

    Yeah. The lounge and all. I’m not even going there.

  443. 443
    Ingdigo Jump

    and if one doesn’t understand such references, it’ll be more difficult to get along in a given culture.

    Ah I see. So the dominate ethnicity has the privilege that all others must bow to them and learn their ways while they are under no obligation to acquiesce or accommodate anyone else. That sounds perfectly fair and not at all an outdated concept based on ethnocentricity and supremacy designed to keep undesirable mongrolfolk from mucking up civilized countries.

  444. 444
    Ingdigo Jump

    @Chas

    You’re not familar with the criticisms of Mr. Foster Wallace Wallace Foster treating the lower classes basically as a side show?

  445. 445
    carlie

    it was written by a sneering classist asshole who apparently can’t handle Styrofoam or sitting too close to poor people.

    I didn’t get that at all from the article – more that the lobster festival bills itself as something awesome, and then ends up being entirely not so awesome in practice (making it even less worth the ethical/emotional cost of the lobster killing). My family actually went to the lobster festival a couple of years ago, and it was, indeed, something of a downer. We waited in line about an hour, and ended up with cold, sopping wet lobsters slapped onto a cardboard plate with an also sopping wet tiny piece of corn on the cob. One out of the lobsters had cracked during the cooking, and the tail (and intestine) had basically disintegrated because of that, rendering most of it inedible. The cardboard doesn’t quite last through the entire eating experience, which is formidable because plastic utensils really don’t work against a lobster shell (one of my kids cut his hand on a piece of shell trying to get it open). So yeah. Maybe the way it was phrased in the article wasn’t the best, but it’s not classist to say that an inedible, frustrating mess of wet cardboard and sharp lobster shell isn’t exactly the best way to make good use of an animal.

  446. 446
    Portia

    Good morning!

    Giliell

    now have a desk, for the first time in 5 years that can be actually accessed.

    Organization is painful for me to maintain but so gratifying when accomplished. : )

    Socio-gen

    Alt-med family members: I tried to tell my aunt that the autism-connection-study was faked, debunked, and retracted. She said “Well, I read this book, and that’s not true.” There’s just no winning, is there?

    ——————-

    Story time: last night I went to the hometown bar to catch up with a friend. I ran into my cousin’s girlfriend and we were chatting. I went to the restroom and when I returned she was talking with her boyfriend and an apparently overbearing, very drunk man who had previously held me in conversation longer than I wanted. Incidentally, CousinGF and I had been talking about men who feel entitled to women’s attention. So I went and tapped her on the shoulder, and asked “Do you need an out right now?” Her expression was so relieved and she moved to the other side of me and thanked me profusely for recognizing the signs. Moral of the story, if you ask and you’re wrong, your friend/acquaintance/etc can say “Nope, I’m cool.” If you ask and you’re right, you might be a help. (Thinking about it, I’m not sure how it would work to try it with a stranger…)

  447. 447
  448. 448
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Ing,
    Well, we all know how that worked out. Let ‘em have it.

  449. 449
    ChasCPeterson

    You’re not familar with the criticisms…

    Well, no, I wasn’t. And I sort of inferred that Joe was venting some long-term grudge or parroting a pervasive criticism or something. So I poked around–not much to be found; the only mentions of Wallace’s ‘classism’ or ‘elitism’ were references to literary or usage-prescriptivist snootiness*, not anything social or economic. (Which is consistent with my reading of his stuff.) So I don’t acually know what you’re talking about, Ing. (Nothing unusual there.)

    But then now I see what happened–Joe just read the first two pages of the linked article itself and jumped right to his own conclusions. So that’s what I waned to know.

    Sorry for scuffing up the Lounge.

    *a few might see what I did there.

  450. 450
    Ingdigo Jump

    @Chas

    Actually I think Joe saw the author and knew the reputation of pretentious asshole and didn’t want to read.

  451. 451
    Ingdigo Jump

    Ing,
    Well, we all know how that worked out. Let ‘em have it.

    Except you just know that rather than self destructing due to “people needing to clean toilets and flip burgers” they’re just going to exploit the locals.

  452. 452
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Besides, $10 says that the city won’t even get out of the initial planning stages– my guess is the whole thing will be drowned in corruption.

  453. 453
    Sili

    Ah I see. So the dominate ethnicity has the privilege that all others must bow to them and learn their ways while they are under no obligation to acquiesce or accommodate anyone else.

    Where did I say the latter part? Accommodation is of course part of a basic classical education.

    That sounds perfectly fair and not at all an outdated concept based on ethnocentricity and supremacy designed to keep undesirable mongrolfolk from mucking up civilized countries.

    Pardon me for actually believing in civilisation. I’d certainly argue against a citizenship exam consisting entirely of sports and religion trivia. But frankly, if you wanna live here, you should be familiar with the national mythos – if for no other reason, then to be able to criticise it.

  454. 454
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Yeah, they’ll be totally independent of any government… right after the government builds them the roads, assures power and water. Nice plan, that.

  455. 455
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Ing,
    Fair enough, but I’ll still be surprised if the project ever gets off the ground.

  456. 456
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    But frankly, if you wanna live here, you should be familiar with the national mythos – if for no other reason, then to be able to criticise it.

    I don’t get this, honestly. I see it as potentially useful, but not as something that should be a requirement.

  457. 457
    Ingdigo Jump

    Yeah, they’ll be totally independent of any government… right after the government builds them the roads, assures power and water. Nice plan, that.

    Isn’t that just the LIbertarian mind set? Do everything for me then get the fuck out of my way cause I’m self made

  458. 458
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Beatrice,
    I got mine, fuck you! in action.

    Here’s hoping that the government of Honduras decides to take them for a ride (they agreed to pay property taxes, after all).

  459. 459
    Ingdigo Jump

    @Dr. Audley

    Which is going to fuck over whatever host country these people are running their international corps from (cause no income tax now) and frankly Hondouras itself due to the huge potential taxation they’d lose and the rampant abuse of workers that already exists.

  460. 460
    Ingdigo Jump

    WARNING!!! FIRE STORY!!! FIRE STORY!!!

    (You have been warmed!)

    On Tuesday, I worked a half-shift (4:00pm to 4:00am (okay, a little more than a half-shift) and then slept (somewhat) for 6 hours (work to rest ratio requirement). I went through the demob process and departed by vehicle to Sacramento. I checked into the hotel, visited the bookstore across from the hotel, and had dinner at Panera (half a roast beef on Asiago cheese bread and a small soba noodle and shrimp salad) and also got a sandwich for the airplane flight the next day.

    There were two groups meeting in the restaurant. One was a crochet and knitting group (men and women, old and young). The other was a bible study group. Curiousity (or masochism) got the best of me and I sat near the bible study group. This is not a verbatim transcript of what I heard, but it is pretty damn close:

    Leader: Who is the enemy of God’s creation?

    Group: The deceiver/liar/Satan/devil.

    L: Why is he called the deceiver?

    Member of Group: He is the prince of lies.

    L: Correct. How does he lie?

    MoG: By blinding us to God’s reality that is all around us.

    For instance, Satan blinds evolutionists and places lies into their eyes. An evolutionist can look at a rock and claim it is older than the universe because Satan has placed lies in his eyes. They claim that charcoal in a rock shows that it was from an imaginary sea ten billion years old. [laughter]

    An evolutionist can look at a rock and claim it is a dinosaur and then create a false creature that could never have existed. They carve false bones out of rocks, convinced by the deceiver that it is a bone longer than a school bus. [laughter] A slightly different colour of rock and, boom, a whole new animal. An animal that only exists in the mind of Satan and the eyes of an evolutionist.

    What does this tell us? It tells us that we can never, ever, trust our eyes. The devil will put images there, even in the eyes of a child of God, even in the eyes of a believer. But we must never believe our eyes.

    Yesterday, I got a ticket for running a red light. The was green when I went through the intersection, but it was really red. Satan fooled me. I trusted my eyes and saw red where green was. God protected me and I didn’t hit another car and, after receiving my earthly punishment, I prayed to my God and thanked Him for His mercy and protection.

    =====

    The meeting was still going on as I finished my meal, picked up my movie sandwich and my book about Triassic vertebrate assemblages, and walked out. I stopped to admire some of the hook and needle work going on. Good stuff. And they were, at least, doing something more than mental masturbation.

    EnD FIRE STORY!!!

    Perhaps it’s the asshole in me but I would be sourly tempted to get up to the speaker and belch in their face and then insist it never happened and everyone is being deceived and Satan is trying to destroy the group by causing in fighting.

  461. 461
    Sili

    . I also have a problem with the glorification of sport above other forms of entertainment. Why not a question about Joan Sutherland? She had worldwide acclaim on a level of Donald Bradman’s and perhaps even greater.

    Are the questions always the same? Is there always a sports question? If this is a systematic thing, then I’m right up there with the protesters, but much as I love Dame Joan, I think it would indeed be classist to insist that opera should be privileged above the interests of the unwashed masses.

  462. 462
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Another thing re: Honduras’ “free city”.

    The MKG Group says its plan, however, is not to take advantage of natural resources, but rather to attract entrepreneurs using good laws and low taxes.

    Oh look, he accidentally wrote “but” instead of “and” (and there’s that “not” that doesn’t belong at the beginning).

    They are going to build a city in the middle of nowhere. That means they are mostly going to destroy nature and take advantage of what they can. These libertarians are horrible liars.

  463. 463
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Ing,
    I’m not saying this is a good thing, but wondering what the hell Honduras expects to get out of this arrangement. Besides, this whole thing is still some libertarian’s wet dream– it’s not even out of the planning stages yet.

  464. 464
    Ingdigo Jump

    Houndoras gets yet another company town

  465. 465
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    I just realized that I haven’t made courgette and mushroom bread this summer.
    That’s a grave mistake which I should rectify as soon as possible.

  466. 466
    Walton

    I dislike Styrofoam. If for no other reason than that it’s not recyclable, and can easily be replaced with other materials which are recyclable.

    ====

    I’m not keen on the concept of “citizenship tests” at all – I don’t think people should have to demonstrate that they can memorize a set of trivial facts before they can become citizens and exercise civil rights in the place where they live. It’s just another arbitrary hurdle. If the goal is social cohesion and integration, then providing free language classes for new migrants would probably be more useful (but of course governments are reluctant to do that, because it costs money, and because OH NOES TEH IMMIGRANTZ).

    (To be honest, I don’t think that the right to vote or to participate in political life should be restricted to citizens, in any case. If immigrants were not disenfranchised, politicians might be less keen on pursuing harsh anti-immigrant policies. But that’s another issue.)

  467. 467
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    To be fair, I think the “classist asshole” epithet is much more often applied to the fans of DFW than the auteur himself.

    I have some direct experience with this.

  468. 468
    Ingdigo Jump

    Someone help me here, to me this looks like Ophilia Benson is off the fucking rails criticizing Muslims for peacefully protesting now

    To me it reads like if you violently protest your barbarians and if you peacefully protest you’re engaged in a window strategy to support barbarians.

    What exactly are Muslims supposed to do that won’t be construed as they being violent assholes short of just shutting up?

  469. 469
    Ingdigo Jump

    I have a second interesting question to pose based off a Crommunist that I think might have some productive conversation but I want to ask first if I can use SC as an example first? It’s not slamming or judging you/her just thought something would be good to illustrate a point

  470. 470
    dianne

    I just realized that I haven’t made courgette and mushroom bread this summer.

    Recipe?

  471. 471
    Sili

    (To be honest, I don’t think that the right to vote or to participate in political life should be restricted to citizens, in any case. If immigrants were not disenfranchised, politicians might be less keen on pursuing harsh anti-immigrant policies. But that’s another issue.)

    Funny. I support the other extreme. Everyone* should take the citizenship test before being allowed to vote.

    But I agree the memorising individual facts is largely pointless. Benson and The Simpsons have both mocked this by letting characters applying for citizenship go off tangent and demonstrate that they understand the issues at hand. To which Apu in the latter case is instructed “Just say ‘slavery’”.

    *This is indeed in the hope that the riffraff would be disenfranchised. Surveys repeatedly show that the group doing worst when tested are the xenophobic arseholes who insist that “the brownies” be made to jump through hoops.

  472. 472
    Walton

    Ing: Indeed. While I like Ophelia Benson’s blog, I often disagree with the things she writes about Islam and Muslims, and I’ve repeatedly said so. (Most recently I debated it with her here.)

  473. 473
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Recipe for mushroom and courgette bread:
    http://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/2889/courgette-and-mushroom-bread
    I usually take recipes more as guidelines than something I should follow precisely, but I don’t think I changed anything except for using white button mushrooms instead of chestnut mushrooms.
    I can’t say whether it’s better in the original, but it was delicious this way.

  474. 474
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    So, I have 3 entire bottles of hair dye on my head. Let’s hope it works.

    But frankly, if you wanna live here, you should be familiar with the national mythos – if for no other reason, then to be able to criticise it.

    So, what about the “natives”?
    I’m pretty sure that quite a lot of Germans are unable to tell you how Germany came into being, the development from, say 1848 onward, let alone tell you anything about the basic organisation of the country.
    Yet when they turn 18 they get their colourful slips that allow them to vote, just like the one I get.
    And if they would have to pass a test and failed, what then?
    The whole idea is bullshit.
    It’s helpful to know about commonly known tropes and sayings. I would consider some basic bible-stories to be part of that canon just like Goethe’s Faust or Shakespeare’s Hamlet.

    Ing
    *sigh*
    Ophelia’s massive blind spot. Everything she knows about punching up vs. down, privilege, power discrepancy etc is gone when she talks about muslims.

  475. 475
    Walton

    Ophelia’s massive blind spot. Everything she knows about punching up vs. down, privilege, power discrepancy etc is gone when she talks about muslims.

    Indeed.

  476. 476
    Josh, Official SpokesGay

    No, Walton and Gileill. You’re not reading carefully. Ophelia is talking not about Muslims. She’s talking about Islamists. There is a difference. It’s an important one. It’s a legitimate distinction. She’s saying there’s no such thing as “moderate Islamism,” because there’s no such thing as “moderate theocratic yearnings.” That’s a truth I think you’d agree with. Why don’t you see that?

  477. 477
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    Adrienne Pine at Quotha has been posting regularly about the Charter Cities push* and the opposition in Honduras and abroad. Seriously – as I’ve been saying for a long time, anyone concerned about the situation in Honduras and what it means for politics more broadly should add her blog to your feeds. She’s an anthropologist, an expert on the area, and a good writer who provides useful links.

    *Because nothing shows propertarians as champions of freedom better than their advancing their agenda in a poor foreign country, with the cooperation of an illegitimate government following a military coup, in a context of rampant human rights violations including the murder of journalists.

    ***

    Thanks again to Socio-gen and the others who’ve mentioned that what I’ve said – not always calmly or politely, to be sure – has made you think. Lately, when the culture gets to be too much, I’ve been retreating into vegan and animal rights blogs and books (Vegan Feminist Agitator is one of my favorite people in the world at the moment), which helps, but by far the best thing to hear is that what I’ve written has made an impact. Again, I very much appreciate your telling me that. And thanks to Josh for coming to my defense. (And thanks to Chas for…well, thanking me for the link.)

    ***

    I’m hoping Improbable Joe’s comment is having the effect of causing people to check out the link to see if his charges are true.

    :)

    ***

    Not until August 2013?! Noooooooo!

    ***

    I have a second interesting question to pose based off a Crommunist that I think might have some productive conversation but I want to ask first if I can use SC as an example first? It’s not slamming or judging you/her just thought something would be good to illustrate a point

    I’m not sure whose permission you’re asking here – seems to be Chas’s, bizarrely enough – but if it’s at all mine, then I would prefer that you don’t use me as an example.

  478. 478
    Deborah

    @366 Portia Thanks. I’m doing okay, stressed about starting new job at 6am tomorrow, and confused by mixed signals from ex-bf, but managing.

    On A/C I’m the opposite. Can’t stand to be hot, and start feeling sick at about 85.

    @367 trinioler How do you make it display the code instead of just showing what you coded for? Is there a special character/code you put in to display the text instead of following the code instructions?

    @388 trinioler I wondered if it could be anxiety attack when you first mentioned it – but sorry to hear that because they are definitely not fun. (Hugs) if you want them.

    @391 SC That really sums it up. Sometimes I wish I could be so succint and clear.

    @397 trinioler I don’t know about over the counter meds for anxiety, but if you can’t get to a doctor right away usually a pharmacist will recommend what is over the counter. I had one mention a homeopathic remedy once, though, so you still have to read labels. And I had a prescription once upon a time for a very small dose of Ativan. It worked well, and I didn’t have any side effects I noticed. Oh, and the other thing, when I was a teenager I hadn’t been diagnosed with asthma yet, and I mistook mild asthma attacks for anxiety because they tended to happen in crowded places (I’m allergic to perfumes, so that makes sense). I would get the tight chest, difficulty breathing, fear response, and shaking. To this day I get the shakes and hot flashes with an asthma attack.

    @410 Markita Glad I wasn’t needing to stop boycotting Chick-Fil-A anytime soon.

    @419 Sili Growing up in a homeschooling household, with few friends, no television, christian radio and music only, and even rarely attending church (often church wasn’t good enough for us), I found a different kind of cultural disconnect. I reached adulthood not knowing who Michael Jackson was, confusing the Beatles and the Beach Boys, not knowing the literal meaning of many common curse words, etc. I can talk to people now, but still occasionally have to tell them “if it happened before 2000 I probably don’t know about it” to explain why I haven’t seen, say, the Godfather or don’t recognize a famous song when it comes on the radio. I often think I come across a little strange to people, rather like someone who moved to the West as a late teens or adult and learned the language and mannerisms after childhood.

    @426 Setar oh. I think I had that too, and never occurred to me it was wrong. Thanks, I think.

  479. 479
    Josh, Official SpokesGay

    Further, why do you get it so consistently wrong when you talk about Ophelia’s alleged Islamophobia (especially you, Ing)? Why is it so hard for you to see that she’s criticizing the idea of treating “Muslims” as an identity category in ways that run roughshod over the women/gays within that category? Why don’t you agree that it’s dangerous and problematic to accept the framing of “Islamophobia” in ways that privilege the dominance of men and clerics at the expense of women?

    And since I expect you actually do agree that that is problematic, why do you so consistently accuse Ophelia of ignorant “Islamophobia.” What the hell?

  480. 480
    AJ Milne

    #468/Ing:

    I’m answering that one there, too. For what my opinion of it is worth to you: no, I don’t think she’s off the rails. I do agree the term ‘moderate Islamist’ has some pretty odd properties, and I’ve used it. But this is the lounge, so: see there.

  481. 481
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    I think it is interesting that on a tangent about class and elitism, people should say “David Foster Wallace” as though that should automatically mean something to people.

  482. 482
    Josh, Official SpokesGay

    Oh, yeah. Lounge. If anyone wants to have a vigorous debate I’ll take it to Thunderdome.

  483. 483
    Maureen Brian

    Sili,

    We get our right to vote from the fact that we exist and are here (or there) not because we meet some other party’s specification. Tests, as Jim Crow proved, can be rigged.

    It has rarely been put better than this -

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/75827322@N00/5699036063/

  484. 484
    Ingdigo Jump

    Further, why do you get it so consistently wrong when you talk about Ophelia’s alleged Islamophobia (especially you, Ing)?

    Josh you are welcome to try to conjure up a single solitary other time than now I have commented on Ophelia and Islam.

  485. 485
    Josh, Official SpokesGay

    Ing, perhaps I’m conflating this current conversation with other conversations about the issue not having to do with Ophelia. Sorry.

  486. 486
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    Hmmmm… lots of people see Ophelia’s statements about Muslims to be at least occasionally problematic. Josh, you’re on a hair-trigger to defend your friends and attack anyone you see as going after them. Everybody seems a little extra prickly this weekend. Maybe now is a good time to agree to disagree?

  487. 487
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    No, Walton and Gileill. You’re not reading carefully. Ophelia is talking not about Muslims. She’s talking about Islamists. There is a difference. It’s an important one. It’s a legitimate distinction. She’s saying there’s no such thing as “moderate Islamism,” because there’s no such thing as “moderate theocratic yearnings.” That’s a truth I think you’d agree with. Why don’t you see that?

    That’s true. I don’t think she was clear about it, which led to the confusion between her use of “moderates” (the allegedly “moderate” wing of Islamism) and what most people would think of (not the Muslim Brotherhood). I clicked the link to the article she’s responding to thinking that if they did cite the Muslim Brotherhood as moderate I wouldn’t disagree with her post on that score, and sure enough they do.

    One issue I have is the discussion of the protests. I haven’t been following this much, but I assume at least some of the protesters are protesting the film but not demanding that it be banned or saying that free speech should be abridged. (Or am I wrong about that?) If that’s the case, then that shouldn’t be opposed. I would protest something I find repugnant and harmful that’s legal (even if I agree that it should be legal).

    I also think she does have a general hyperskeptical blind spot on the subject of Islamophobia. I don’t argue with her about it anymore because it was extremely unpleasant arguing about that with someone I like and respect and who was understanding me to be saying that I think she’s a racist. But this post wasn’t an example of that blind spot, as far as I can see.

  488. 488
    Walton

    Josh, I attempted to reply, but my Internet connection is crappy. Let me try again.

    I have never accused Ophelia of being Islamophobic, and I don’t think anything of the kind. I agree that “Muslim” and “Islamist” do not mean the same thing, and I certainly agree that “moderate Islamism” is a strange concept. That’s not really what I was talking about.

    Rather, my problem with Ophelia’s stance is set out here. I don’t really find her reply (further down that thread) satisfactory. She’s
    But that doesn’t detract from the basic point that Muslims, qua Muslims, are an oppressed minority in Western countries. The fact that some people who are Muslim are also oppressed in other ways within their own communities is obviously true (and important, and something we should talk about – I like Johann Hari’s piece on Muslim homophobia, for instance), but it doesn’t mean that we can ignore the fact that Muslim communities in Western countries are oppressed, marginalized, and the targets of discrimination and stereotyping. And because of this, the effect of a Western publication ridiculing Islam is not the same as the effect of the same Western publication ridiculing Christianity, because in the former case they’re punching down rather than punching up.

  489. 489
    Walton

    Ok, I forgot to finish my post. Let me try that for a third time.

    I have never accused Ophelia of being Islamophobic, and I don’t think anything of the kind. I agree that “Muslim” and “Islamist” do not mean the same thing, and I certainly agree that “moderate Islamism” is a strange concept. That’s not really what I was talking about.

    Rather, my problem with Ophelia’s stance is set out here. I don’t really find her reply (further down that thread) satisfactory. She’s obviously right that “many Muslims are an oppressed minority (or in fact majority) within the set called “Muslims.” Some Muslims oppress other Muslims. Often this is done in the name of Islam itself.” But that doesn’t detract from the basic point that Muslims, qua Muslims, are an oppressed minority in Western countries. The fact that some people who are Muslim are also oppressed in other ways within their own communities is obviously true (and important, and something we should talk about – I like Johann Hari’s piece on Muslim homophobia, for instance), but it doesn’t mean that we can ignore the fact that Muslim communities in Western countries are oppressed, marginalized, and the targets of discrimination and stereotyping. And because of this, the effect of a Western publication ridiculing Islam is not the same as the effect of the same Western publication ridiculing Christianity, because in the former case they’re punching down rather than punching up.

  490. 490
    Ingdigo Jump

    @Walton

    There’s also the issue of what I see as a hypocritical focus on things like Free speech. I think I’ve stated before that if you were a Muslim and hear the up roar about the 9-11 Mosque, but then hear people defend someone who sets out to intentionally be a big asshole to your group as free speech you would most definitely not see free speech as some intrinsic protection, but a tool of the privileged to shit on the minorities.

  491. 491
    Walton

    Argh. Arguing on a blog while using a crappy wireless connection that keeps disconnecting itself: not a productive endeavour. #firstworldproblems.

  492. 492
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Josh
    Ok, let me try to explain it:
    I actually agree that religion is not identity the same way gender or sexual orientation is.
    I agree with freedom of expression/speech.
    But I also see that it’s not that easy for people to seperate religion from their identity, especially when talking about piss-poor people in underdeveloped parts of the world for whom all those concepts are literally alien.
    And you cannot seperate this from 19th century colonialism, European racism or, of course, the Irak and Afghanistan wars.
    You cannot seperate this easily from a world with one dominant power and culture that constantly beats upon other cultures, and only in the most benign cases by establishing McDonalds.
    It seems interesting to me that most people who moan here about Ophelia’s writing on this subject and the topic in general are Europeans, people who live in countries with:
    -classical colonial histories
    -high proportions of muslim immigrants
    -more secular cultures
    And I think we see this tendency of othering 1.5 billion people just because of their religion as something dangerous and bad. And it’s someting Ophelia not only tolerates but fosters.
    Comments like this:

    A disgusting man in a ridiculous country.

    , devaluing millions of Pakistani go unchallenged there.
    This is Ophelia’s own from the post Ing linked to:

    That looks alarmingly like a wedge strategy, or a move the window strategy – separate the “more popular moderate” Muslim Brotherhood from the Salafists so that the MB will seem not so bad after all.

    Now, who’s supposed to drive this wedge? As the differenciation was made by Avaaz, I find the indication of a wedge strategy to make the Muslim Brotherhood look good pretty problematic.
    Unfortunate word-choice? Yes.
    Conscious wedge strategy? Gimme my tinfoil hat.

    Why is it so hard for you to see that she’s criticizing the idea of treating “Muslims” as an identity category in ways that run roughshod over the women/gays within that category?

    Well, for the matter of treating people with basic human decency and not dicriminating against them, religion (and lack thereoff) is and should be seen as a protected class. I’ve already written something about the problem of identity above.
    Religion is a factor that easily distracts from a whole lot of other factors. It’s a vehicle.

    Why don’t you agree that it’s dangerous and problematic to accept the framing of “Islamophobia” in ways that privilege the dominance of men and clerics at the expense of women?

    Well, that is dangerous, yet it’s not what I’m arguing and I don’t think Ing and Walton are doing that either. Islamophobia reinforces the privilege and dominance of cultural (and ethnical!) hegemonies over marginalized groups, within countries and globally.
    There’s more than one axis of oppression and I’m pretty able to stand up against the oppression of women and gays by Islamists while standing up against the othering of muslims by the west.

    If you want an example of “othering” take her post on the minister who wants to pay 100k to kill the maker of “Innocence of Muslims”. That’s bad, that’s horrible. But it is presented in a way that this is unique to muslims and somehow tied into the concept.
    Take the common outrage over honour-killings. the focus is not so much on the actual victims, the girls and women killed, but on how bad those muslims are.
    Yet when a western guy kills his kid and wife who wanted to leave him it’s a family tragedy. It doesn’t show how horrible our societies are as a whole.

  493. 493
    Walton

    Or, what Giliell said.

  494. 494
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Murderous police officer, example #87542357273430673926

    http://edition.cnn.com/2012/09/23/us/texas-amputee-shooting/index.html

    A Houston police officer fatally shot in the head a schizophrenic, wheelchair-bound double amputee threatening people with a pen at a group home for the mentally ill after authorities said the man advanced on the officer’s partner, police said.

  495. 495
    trinioler

    deborahbell:

    1) &lt; and &gt; is how I do it.

    2) Thanks for the hugs.

    3) I’ll try to get a doctor’s appointment, and ask for ativan.

  496. 496
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Perhaps it’s the asshole in me but I would be sourly tempted to get up to the speaker and belch in their face and then insist it never happened and everyone is being deceived and Satan is trying to destroy the group by causing in fighting.

    Screw that. I just wanted to make sure I was back in my hotel room before this idiot got in his car. Refusing to trust your eyes when you are driving? Good plan.

    Everyone* should take the citizenship test before being allowed to vote.

    But the tests would, most likely, devolve to the state or local level. Which means that the tests would be designed to pass certain voters and disqualify others. Or it would be an oral exam and an African-American with a law degree and a PhD in Constitutional History would fail, but the right white guy with the R on his voter registration would pass.

    Not that I’m cynical or anything.

  497. 497
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    So, I have a gross excess of heirloom tomatoes and eggplant, a modest amount of fresh basil and rosemary, a LOT of fresh thyme, and a commitment to make food for a potlucky thing next Saturday…and the intention to steal the show again.

    I’m thinking some kind of eggplant parmigiana derivative (I also have a half pound of shitake and a commitment to go buy some farmstead portabello mushrooms on Saturday morning, and I was going to intermix small slices of mushroom), but I’m wondering if anyone has a really good tomato sauce recipe, or any non-flesh other suggestions for making good use of these ingredients.

  498. 498
    Walton

    But the tests would, most likely, devolve to the state or local level. Which means that the tests would be designed to pass certain voters and disqualify others. Or it would be an oral exam and an African-American with a law degree and a PhD in Constitutional History would fail, but the right white guy with the R on his voter registration would pass.

    QFT.

    (I trust everyone’s seen Homer Votes 2012 by now.)

  499. 499
    Sili

    But the tests would, most likely, devolve to the state or local level.

    Life is different in a country of only 5 Mpeople.

  500. 500
    Ingdigo Jump

    @ Josh

    Seems like I wasn’t the only person to misread the comment

    To me it seems it’s the job of this elusive overwhelming majority of islamic moderate to show the extremists clearly belong to a tiny lunatic fringe, and not anyone else’s job or responsibility. It’s their turn to stand up and shout these barbarous islamists down. Leave them the choice to purge the cancer or get eaten by it.

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