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Aug 13 2012

[Lounge #357]

This is the lounge. You can discuss anything you want, but you will do it kindly. It is hedgehog day.

Status: Heavily Moderated; Previous thread

762 comments

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  1. 501
    PatrickG

    @ Esteleth

    By hell, you’re right. My bad. Had to drag my passport out just to check that.

    But then, that’s even worse, because you need ID with your address on to vote in some of the more draconian regimes. So a government document that allows you do basically everything else (be legally employed, buy liquor, open bank accounts, travel) can’t actually be used to vote. Because fraud!

  2. 502
    PatrickG

    @ Richard Austin:

    Theoretically, a bad address would just mean voting provisionally rather than not being allowed to vote at all.

    The following cynical exclamation is directed not at you, but at the thought of provisional ballots actually being counted fairly.

    SNORT.

    @ Esteleth:

    Looks like I’m just wrong in general. A US Passport is valid for Pennsylvania voting, from everything I’m reading. I’m now trying to remember what the hell I was reading about address verification at the polls, because obviously a passport won’t do that. I’ll just shut up about this until I figure out this discrepancy in my memory. :(

  3. 503
    ImaginesABeach

    I’m pretty sure I read that in Texas a gun permit is a valid voter ID but a college ID is not. Not gonna bother checking to see if that is truth or not because I like the sound of it.

  4. 504
    PatrickG

    @ ImaginesABeach:

    I’ll do a quick link so you can both like the sound of it and know it’s true:

    The law allowed concealed handgun licenses to be used instead of a driver’s license but not student ID cards from Texas colleges and universities.

    It’s all tied up in court at the moment.

  5. 505
    broboxley OT

    I agree with many posters here, not much actual voter fraud at the polls in GA tons of fraud I am guessing in absentee ballots. Florida has huge problems because snowbirds are registered to vote in two places and “MAY” vote in both spots.

  6. 506
    Socio-gen, something something...

    PatrickG: Forget them being counted fairly. Worry about them being counted at all. In PA, they aren’t opened until one week and one day after the election — and only if the info on the envelope is filled out perfectly. In some states, they aren’t opened unless a recount is requested/required or when the vote split is narrow enough that those votes could make a difference to the results.

    And that’s only the ones that are accepted. Most provisionals are rejected outright by the election board for various mistakes. After the general election in 2008, I turned in 19 “no-good” provisionals to my election office (out of 31) because the voter had put the current date where it asked for their birthdate, failed to sign and/or date where indicated, or did not completely fill out the required sections of the envelope, the name/address is not legible, or some other error.

  7. 507
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    oniongirl:

    Would the following people mind shooting me a brief email at oniongirlsays at google’s email service*

    Do you have to set up an email account with google to do so?

  8. 508
    Tethys

    Do you have to set up an email account with google to do so?

    No, that’s the address you should send email to. You can use any of your email accounts, you don’t need a gmail address.

  9. 509
    birgerjohansson

    “The law allowed concealed handgun licenses to be used instead of a driver’s license but not student ID cards from Texas colleges and universities”
    The rules must reflect lawmaker phenotypes full of deleterious recessive genes (images state senators with odd numbers of fingers).
    — — — — —
    “Future light component produced in printing press at Umeå” University http://phys.org/news/2012-08-future-component.html
    .
    It is incredibly cool that people just a few hundred yards from where I work have come up with this!
    —- —- —-
    “Sight”: A short futuristic film by Eran May-raz and Daniel Lazo
    http://vimeo.com/46304267 Contact lenses as head-up displays and more sinister apps…

  10. 510
    Socio-gen, something something...

    broboxley: That’s also something that wouldn’t be caught by Voter ID laws. Most voter registration offices are only set up to catch voters registered in more than one precinct in the same state, but there’s nothing to tell State A that Voter X is also registered in State B.

    Snowbirds (and others) could vote absentee in one state, in person in the other, and neither state would know.

  11. 511
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Richard:

    Theoretically, a bad address would just mean voting provisionally rather than not being allowed to vote at all.

    Yeah, good luck with that.

    Since I’ve moved to my current city, I’ve been fighting with the county Board of Elections about whether or not I’m eligible to vote here (hint: I am). Every goddamn election, I fill out a provisional ballot, wait a few weeks for the “whoops, our bad! You are a really real real resident” form letter, then wait a few more weeks for the “no, wait. Aren’t you registered in [this other county]?” letter. I fill out and mail in the required paperwork and the whole damn dance starts again the next election. I have no idea if any of my votes have been counted, but on the other hand, I haven’t been arrested for fraud yet.

    It seems that the other county hasn’t purged my name for the voter rolls, even though I’ve changed my voter registration both at the DMV and though the county Board of Elections. Hell, if the Republicans are so worried about fraud*, they could do a world of good by cleaning up our archaic voting system.

    *Real fraud, not the voting while black kind.

  12. 512
    Lynna, OM

    To those who may have thought that, in light of recent events, you should carry a concealed weapon into a movie theater:

    http://www.salon.com/2012/08/15/weird_news_of_the_day_6/

    synopsis: guy shot himself in the butt.

  13. 513
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Lynna:
    It’s somehow fitting that dude shot himself in the butt during The Bourne Legacy. :D

  14. 514
    opposablethumbs

    Yay! Thank you oniongirl!

  15. 515
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Oniongirl, e-mail sent.

  16. 516
    opposablethumbs

    This voter registration business you’re describing is straight out of Kafka, I would never have guessed it’s such a nightmare. And FSM yes but it’s so obviously aimed at preventing the younger, poorer and more likely to have changed names (i.e. women) from voting.
    .
    My browser is doing something odd; either it’s “quiet – too quiet” out there or (much more likely) my computer is eating everyone’s posts and refusing to show them to me.

  17. 517
    opposablethumbs

    Nope, guess there really was a 3/4 h hiatus when nobody posted … unheimlich!!!!

  18. 518
    PatrickG

    @Socio-gen:

    Forget them being counted fairly. Worry about them being counted at all.

    Well, I tend to think that not counting a ballot for a technical mistake is sort of … unfair. :)

    But yeah, I just had an explosive burst of cynicism. I did poll supervision in San Francisco (not exactly a hotbed of voting problems), and even there the provisional ballots are worth less than the paper they’re written on.

  19. 519
    Lyn M: ADM MinTruthiness

    Oniongirl, sent email.

  20. 520
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    … how do these idiots keep shooting themselves in their own asses? No, seriously, I’d really like to understand the whole lack-of-thought process behind it… pun intended.

  21. 521
    Socio-gen, something something...

    Audley: You’ll probably have to send a certified letter to the old county, demand they remove you and request confirmation. then re-register in your new one. Even though they’re supposed to change it when they get DMV notices (assuming they get them), a lot of county boards won’t remove a name until the person fails to vote in x-number of consecutive elections. Or the state is full of Republicans forcing a voter purge.

    PatrickG: Yep, very unfair, in my opinion. My opinion is provisionals are deliberately written in opaque language with teeny fonts just so voters will likely screw up and election boards won’t have to deal with them.

  22. 522
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    From the peepee thread:

    Oh, look. A textbook-perfect example of the kind of behavior I cited as being harassing, obnoxious, and obsessive. [redacted] is now on automod.

    I missed something? Automod? As in Mod Squad?

    I love lettuce in burritos. Well, spinach preferably, because it has more taste. And has to be cut into ribbons. :p

    Try cabbage (plain white (well, light green) cabbage) sliced real thin. Good taste and a crunchy texture.

    ==============

    Had a panic attack today. I was driving behind a Dodge Behemoth pickup truck and the entire tailgate was covered with a painting of the NYC skyline with the words, “September 1, 2001: We Will Never Forget!” Damnit, some of us want to forget at least some of it and these right wing assholes are not helping! (He also had Romney for President, Thank God for Fox News, and Liberals Go Home on his bumper).

    =============

    I’m a might worried about the PA voter ID law. My driver’s license has my name misspelled (it will cost me $96 to have it changed). Luckily, I have my federal ID, but not sure if that’ll be accepted or excepted.

  23. 523
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Luckily, I have my federal ID, but not sure if that’ll be accepted or excepted.

    Put on your “you turn back around” security face. Or complain about treatment of injured veterans loudly, while patting around for a potential pistol.

  24. 524
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Put on your “you turn back around” security face.

    Which is a smile and, often, a self-deprecating joke (or attempt thereof).

    Or complain about treatment of injured veterans loudly, while patting around for a potential pistol.

    Erm, the injury was long ago (and far, far away), but I would hesitate to play the Disabled Vet card — I’ve noticed, over the years, that those who mention it the most are the ones trying to get something for nothing (yes, I have mentioned it here (well, other threads) as a way to either show that I do have some inkling of what is being discussed or as a way to point out the absurdity of, say, the government having a say in how money from the government is spent by an individual).

    And I do not own a gun. I do not want a gnu. I think some of them are really neat, but, well, I’m happier with a knife. Or Tiffany’s frying pan.

  25. 525
    Tethys

    Ogvorbis

    I missed something? Automod? As in Mod Squad?

    The dungeon has been remodeled, and now has a few new levels.
    Check it out, but be warned, the graphics are rather eye-searing.

  26. 526
    Oenotrian

    Talking about the intricacies of the different voter ID laws has made me all the more thankful that I now live in Washington state. Not only do we not have voter ID, we also have 100% mail-in ballots. In the primaries, I could have filled out my ballot online, printed it out, and mailed it in without a problem.

  27. 527
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Socio-gen,
    Thanks. New York isn’t purging any voters, it’s just full of dumbasses.

  28. 528
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Anti-Panthalassa:

    Damn. You warned me. That was eye-searing. Like, fifteen-years-ago web graphics.

    But I understand. Sort of.

  29. 529
    cicely

    oniongirl: Bombs away! Please let me know if my email doesn’t get there. I’ve screwed these things up before.
    -

  30. 530
    cicely

    Try cabbage (plain white (well, light green) cabbage) sliced real thin. Good taste and a crunchy texture.

    The problem with cabbage is that it tastes like cabbage. I like crunchiness, and I know cabbage is supposed to be good, nutritionally speaking, but at the end of the day, it still tastes like cabbage. Is there, perhaps, some mutant relative of cabbage that tastes less cabbagey?
    -

  31. 531
    Oenotrian

    “The boy said the priest was wearing underwear and a t-shirt and that his own underwear and shorts were pulled down to his knees. The priest went upstairs, returned as the boy was leaving and asked him ‘come back to bed.’
    The boy ran out of the house as the priest gave chase. He found some people standing in a driveway and told them ‘Help me, a guy is chasing me.’”

    Oh, and he admits he gave the kid a beer first.

  32. 532
    Oenotrian

    So angry about that last post, it was only afterward that I thought it probably should have had a trigger warning.

    Deepest apologies.

  33. 533
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    cicely:

    Bok choy? Napa cabbage? Cabbage (and, sometimes, match-stick radish) are not unusual toppings in some parts of Mexico.

    Oenotrian:

    That kid was far braver and smarter than I was. Good for him.

  34. 534
    broboxley OT

    try red cabbage

  35. 535
    cicely

    I’ve seen bok choy at the store; I’ll have to give it a try.
    -
    Don’t forget; with clerical child abuse so much in the news these days, that boy may have had a better idea of what was happening to him than you did, and that the adult was wrong, position of authority or no.

  36. 536
    JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness

    Oniongirl, email sent! Let me know if it wasn’t received.

  37. 537
    broboxley OT

    need some horde assistance
    FB status update from a 15yo female friend of my 14yo daughter.

    SEX, DRUGS AND DUBSTEP. Seriously guys? So what you’re saying girl; is you’re a slut? A drug addict? And listen to shitty music? Mmmm okay. Well if I can put my opinion on here. You sound fucking retarded. There is three things completely repulsive to me in women: 1- snooty/conceited personality. 2- acting like a slut. 3- JUST BEING PLAIN FUCKING RETARDED. So anyone who believes in sex, drugs and dubstep can go shove a hot curling iron up their ass.

    well number 1 is offputting, number 2 not sure about, female on female but 3. is over the line. Maybe I am a tad sensitive as I have had friends who had downes and in my youth a few actually retarded friends (not sure of the actual diag but very low IQ, not able to hold any job but the simplest but decent human beings) so how do I wean her off the “retarded meme” slowly weaning her off of gay slurs but rough going.

  38. 538
    thunk: y'all know ageism is a thing?

    Broboxley:

    Way for that girl to slut-shame and be an ableist asspimple.

    As for that:

    1. Maybe, but an unfounded accusation.
    2. Women can be misogynist too.
    3. Just plain ableist. Fuck that shit.

  39. 539
    Josh, Official SpokesGay

    Loungerupt. Also still trying to figure out the best typing method on this damned tablet.this is Swype fwiw. Stuck in Columbus Ohio at the glamorous Best Western. But I discovered the most delicious thing today: icecream in a pretzel cone! For rilz. The sweet and salty combination is a mouth orgasm. Even better, this is the first icecream I’ve had in a year and a half since the Cardiac Unpleasantries. Holy fuck it was good!

  40. 540
    Josh, Official SpokesGay

    Oh, oh. I think the guy in the next room must called the woman a beyotch.

  41. 541
    Josh, Official SpokesGay

    Mmm. She’s laughing now. Oh, Jesus Christ, I think they’re gonna fuck. I’m turning up the air conditioning.

  42. 542
    julian

    Cheer them on! Every good performance deserves an audience.

  43. 543
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    Oniongirl
    Sent, it’ll come in under my real name, though, because I can’t be arsed making a different email.

  44. 544
    Josh, Official SpokesGay

    I’m a pig, Julian, but they’re really not doing it for me:(

  45. 545
    chigau (違う)

    oniongirl
    email sent with “chigau” in the subject

  46. 546
    Amblebury

    oniongirl Sent. Where we meant to make a ‘nym account? I didn’t know, if we were :(

  47. 547
    cicely

    Ah. oniongirl, it never occurred to me to mention it…but my email will be under Another Name. Starts with ‘C’. Asks, “What’s up?”
    -

  48. 548
    StarStuff, a soulless cunt

    I’m looking for a crochet project for a ball of sock yarn that I’ve had sitting around for a while. Any ideas? (Not socks.)

  49. 549
    Ingdigo Jump

    Anyone see this!?
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/family-research-council-guard-shot-by-gunman-in-dc/2012/08/15/e420527e-e719-11e1-a3d2-2a05679928ef_story.html

    The FBI said it was evaluating evidence to determine whether to charge Corkins with a federal crime, such as attempting a terrorist act.

    Am I just insane or is this the first of the shootings that have been actually considered terrorist!? And it’s because it targeted Family Research Council…fuck my life

  50. 550
    hotshoe, now with more boltcutters

    StarStuff –

    I’m looking for a crochet project for a ball of sock yarn that I’ve had sitting around for a while. Any ideas? (Not socks.)

    Try a crochet baktus free ravelry download, here

    I don’t crochet so I haven’t tried this version of the pattern; I’ve made the knitted baktus a couple times and love it. Designed specifically for sock yarn, it makes a good-sized neck scarf/kerchief.

    The best thing about it is that it doesn’t matter exactly how much yarn you have, since you work increases until you’ve used half your yarn (by weight) and then start the decreases to use up the other half of your yarn. When I finished mine, I had about 1 meter of yarn leftover.

  51. 551
    eriktrips

    oniongirl:
    email sent. Only just now saw your post.

    broboxley:
    - Slut shaming starts young.
    - The abjection of drug addicts is arguably one of our culture’s least-examined prejudices. Aside from the fact that most drug users are not addicts, addicts themselves tend to have experienced a great deal of trauma, often as children.
    - Ableist epithet is ableist. Not cool.

    appropriate for a general audience:
    Sort of crashed this afternoon but now I am bursting with energy in spite of full complement of Klonopin in my system. Want to do art projects and write songs, but the cat thinks it is bedtime and is asleep on my legs.

    And, dammit, there’s my appetite, which fled many hours ago. I think there are some crackers within arm’s reach here..

    Finally, the news does bad things to my mental health, so I try to avoid going deeply into issues that upset me unless I am feeling stalwart. Just briefly, is there a reason why these voter id laws have not already had injunctions filed against them? Why do the Repugs get to do whatever they want without being called on their bullshit?

  52. 552
    lexie

    Broboxely,

    I think maybe you should encourage your daughter to do some volunteer work with intellectually disabled people. From what you say she doesn’t actually seem to know anyone intellectually disabled or families of those who are so probably doesn’t actually understand the hurt she’s causing by saying that. IMHO, often people just don’t get it until the situation is humanised for them. Many people say stupid things because they don’t know better but when actually confronted with real people, decent people will normally get it. Also from what you were saying one of the reasons you get it is because you know people with Downs, I think that it might also help your daughter. Not sure if it will help or not but just my opinion.

  53. 553
    strange gods before me ॐ

    broboxley,

    Maybe I am a tad sensitive as I have had friends who had downes and in my youth a few actually retarded friends (not sure of the actual diag but very low IQ, not able to hold any job but the simplest but decent human beings)

    When I was young and used “retarded” to derogate, occasionally people responded to me with personal accounts like yours. It didn’t sink in immediately, but, for what introspection is worth, I think it contributed to my dropping the word.

    My advice is to tell her what you’re telling us.

  54. 554
    MissEla

    Does anyone have any advice on how to keep the plunger from sticking in an insulin syringe? My vet gave me one syringe to give my cockatiel Lactulose orally (needle removed, of course) and the rubber has started sticking when I try to insert the plunger in the syringe. Google hasn’t been very helpful so far. :( I’ve tried a little olive oil, which seems to be working, but I don’t know if that is the best thing to use. Thanks!

  55. 555
    ibyea

    @Ing
    And they didn’t do the same thing for the shooting against the Sikhs? I thought it was a clear case of terrorism.

  56. 556
    Josh, Official SpokesGay

    Miss Ella…do you mean a real needle syringe or a soft bulb squirting “syringe”?

  57. 557
    Ingdigo Jump

    @Ibyea

    Probably my reading bias, the Sihk shooter is refereed to by several news stories as a domestic terrorist.

  58. 558
    MissEla

    Josh–It’s a real-needle syringe with the needle removed. Looks like this.

  59. 559
    MissEla

    Dammit, let’s try that link again.

    Like this.

  60. 560
    lexie

    MissEla, did you ask if your vet would give you some more syringes? They’re not really supposed to be reused so they can stick. I imagine you’re using a tiny dose for a cockatiel so they could probably give you some 1ml syringes, as they’re not expensive. I hope your cockatiel is ok.

  61. 561
    rorschach

    Drove 4 hours out of town to spend a little time on the sea in a place called Lakes Entrance. Turned on TV in hotel room and AlJazeera is reporting that UK is threatening to raid the Ecuadoean embassy to get Assange out. AlJazeera is so much better than CNN, it’s not funny.

  62. 562
    ibyea

    @rorschach
    I don’t know when it happened, but at certain points, I began to get the feeling that CNN was getting worse and worse. I don’t watch CNN anymore. It is one of those channels, like the Discovery Network, which decayed into such pathetic state.

  63. 563
    McC2lhu doesn't want to know what you did there.

    @oniongirl:

    Tried to send a salutationary* pizza and a coke, but it wouldn’t fit in the PC ports. I guess you’re stuck with a vanilla one-line response (sans sprinkles) instead.

    *And as your free gift, please enjoy this un-word, along with this complimentary copy of The Watchtower, which I am sure will prove every bit as useful in life as the un-word.

  64. 564
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    Thought some folks here may be interested in checking out this book :

    http://www.npr.org/2012/08/14/158756024/climate-weirdness-throws-ecosystems-out-of-kilter

    Lemonick is the co-author of a new book, Global Weirdness: Severe Storms, Deadly Heat Waves, Relentless Drought, Rising Seas, and the Weather of the Future. The book, published by the nonprofit research organization Climate Central, details the effects of climate change and greenhouse gases in ocean acidity, existing ecosystems, disruptions to food supply and rising sea levels. Lemonick says sea level has risen by about eight inches overall worldwide since around 1900, and the waters are expected to rise an estimated three feet by 2100.

    Via a link from a comment here :

    http://climatecrocks.com/2012/08/14/why-obama-can-and-should-start-talking-about-climate/

    on the excellent Climate Denial Crock of the Week blog.

  65. 565
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    @60. rorschach :

    AlJazeera is so much better than CNN, it’s not funny.

    But Al Jazeera is notoriously biased and Islamist anti-Western though ain’t it? Going on what I’ve heard / read, must admit I haven’t watched it myself.

    My fave – Australian TV channels obviously – news channels TV~wise are SBS and ABC. Internationally there’s the BBC World News which has a good website :

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/

    Plus it’s TV news program used to be on at a semi-reasonable though very late hour shown on ABC news-24′s channel.

  66. 566
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    @60. rorschach :

    Drove 4 hours out of town to spend a little time on the sea in a place called Lakes Entrance.

    I take it that isn’t the Aussie town :

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakes_Entrance

    you’re talking about there!

    (Guess a few places globally would have that name.)

  67. 567
    dianne

    It seems to me that there have been an awful lot of shootings recently, i.e. since the Colorado shooting. Various hypotheses occur to me to explain this:
    1. Confirmation bias-mine: I’ve been paying more attention to reports of shootings since the one in CO.
    2. Confirmation biase-media: The media is covering “minor” shootings more vigorously now because they’re more interesting after a major shooting.
    3. Copycat crimes.
    4. People buy more guns after a well reported shooting and more guns=more shooting.
    5. Some combination of the above.

    Thoughts?

  68. 568
    Kevin, 友好火猫 (Friendly Fire Cat)

    Lounge-rupt Kitty. So much work, then I just sleep.

  69. 569
    rorschach

    I take it that isn’t the Aussie town :

    Obviously not. This is an American blog, after all.

    *eyeroll*

  70. 570
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    @68. rorschach : Sure but with a lot of non-American commenters on it as well lets not forget!

    Yeah, I didn’t really think it was the same Lakes Entrance, just struck by the co-incidence & thought I’d mention it.

    @66. dianne : I’d say probably (5) a combination of all of those factors.

  71. 571
    John Morales

    StevoR, Rorschach ain’t being too subtle: he’s in Australia. :)

  72. 572
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Heh, StevoR, I think that was rorschach’s point.

  73. 573
    rorschach

    Anyone seen this yet? Not Being A Dick Mode

  74. 574
    rorschach

    Decision by Ecuador whether to grant immunity to Assange due within the hour. Journos are pointing out that even if they did, the UK would not let him get to an airport to take a plane to Quito.

  75. 575
    carlie

    rorshach- Scalzi just retweeted this, which is pretty astute:
    “My wife just compared @scalzi’s blog about Life on Easy Mode to the Borderlands controversy: Males are on the “girlfriend” mode of life!” (Omega_bunny)

  76. 576
    carlie

    And Charles M. Blow (NYTimes op-ed writer), just wrote about the voter registration thing: “We have had 40+ prez elections w/o these laws, and no one questioned the “integrity of the vote.” What changed? Oh, that’s right…” No kidding.

  77. 577
    dianne

    @75: To be fair, people have questioned the integrity of the vote before. IIRC, in the 19th century, there was one episode where the electors from Florida simply voted for the opponent of the person who had one the popular vote and whom they had promised to vote for in the electoral college, essentially with the explanation that the other guy gave a better bribe.

    Bizarre as it may sound, episodes like that actually increase my faith in the process: if the US can survive something like that and still maintain itself as something vaguely like a republic, maybe it can survive the current spate of corporate persons and so on too.

  78. 578
    One Thousand Needles, lumper-splitter

    “Skeptic Blogs has been designed to be a network community of skeptical bloggers, podcasters and Vbloggers. Our intention is not to antagonize any other skeptical or freethought blogs.

    That this is the second sentence in the mission statement speaks volumes.

  79. 579
    Pteryxx

    They’re just jealous that the good acronyms were taken.

  80. 580
    broboxley OT

    Aljazeera, if one leaves out the obvious bias on reporting via Israel, and understand that there is sublt bias towards Sunnah, there news reporting is first class better than anything the US offers and trumps BBC for unbiased reporting.

    On shootings
    The Killer at the Sikh Temple cant be charged with anything, he is dead. The movie shooter is obviously insane with no apparent bias. The problem with the Family Gotrocks shooting is it is in DC which gives the pols much crap in their drawers with an obvious bias towards overcharging everyone. I think there may be more to the story since if I am going to assault an organization that I hate I dont go armed with a chickfilet sandwich and a 38. There is much more to this story in my opinion

  81. 581
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    FREE JULIAN ASSANGE!!

    Or, well… maybe not? Shit is weird, and all is obviously not as it seems.

  82. 582
    birgerjohansson

    An article in Big Think (crossposted with Thunderdome):

    “Do Americans Really Envy Sweden’s Egalitarianism?” http://bigthink.com/praxis/how-much-equality-would-you-like?utm_source=Big+Think+Weekly+Newsletter+Subscribers&utm_campaign=d53a43cfc0-Michio_Kaku_s_Playlist8_15_2012&utm_medium=email

    The bottom 40 percent HAVE ONLY 0.3%. OF THE TOTAL AMERICAN WEALTH (not to be confused with income)
    .
    Comment:
    “The total GDP of the United States is $14 trillion dollars. But that doesn’t really tell the whole story. If you wanted to see how we REALLY compare to other nations in real terms then you must split us into two nations:
    USAA and USAB.
    USAA has a GDP of 12.6 trillion dollars and consists of a population of 30 million and USAB a GDP of $1.4 trillion that consists of 270 million people. Let’s compare it to a country such as Norway (pop 5 million) whose GDP is around 400 billion dollars. That breaks down to $47370 per capita for USAB and $80,000 per capita for Norway. Quite a difference; but that’s not even the half of it.

    What are we getting for our money? And how much did we have to work to get it?

    A Norwegian works on average 34 hours per week. The average employed American works a 46-hour work week (38% of Americans work more than 50 hours per week) Americans average 10 paid holidays a year compared to Norwegian and British workers averaging twenty-five paid holidays, German employees average thirty. Americans work twelve weeks more a year in total hours than Europeans”

    Why do you guys not start a revolution?
    PS I know Norway has oil. But the conclusions are not significantly altered by using other Scandinavian countries for comparison.

  83. 583
    strange gods before me ॐ

    But Al Jazeera is notoriously biased and Islamist anti-Western though ain’t it? Going on what I’ve heard / read, must admit I haven’t watched it myself.

    *facepalm*

  84. 584
    rorschach

    Well, Assange has been granted asylum by Ecuador now.It’s just that the UK wil ignore it and be a good slave to the US, and enforce his extradition to Sweden, so they can send him to the US which may kill him. Awesome lapdogs, the Brits are.

  85. 585
    Socio-gen, something something...

    What in the hell is wrong with my mother? This morning she had my sister drop off a box of ~40 cucumbers to me at my son’s house. I leave in two days to go back to MN — what in the world am I supposed to do with them?! Even as much as I like cucumbers, I can’t eat them all, my son doesn’t like them, I have no time or interest in pickling them.

    Jeezus…like my to-do list wasn’t long enough….

    Audley:
    Ohhhh… New York… *winces* I’m sorry. :)

    (I kid! I kid! Penn-York rivalry is a long and honored tradition. I think I’m supposed to steal a mule now…or possibly just raid your farmstead?)

    Ogvorbis:
    As long as your federal ID has your name, photo, and an expiration date (but hasn’t expired), it’ll work for voting.

    broboxley:
    I can only offer what worked with my sons and daughter and some of their friends when they were that age.

    This should be an on-going conversation, not a one-time thing. Be non-confrontational but explain why it bothered you and why you prefer she not use that word. Keep it short and then jump to lighter topics.

    Use current events to keep it going over the long-term — for example, point out articles about bullying (or successes) experienced by people with intellectual disabilities or who are different in some way. I second lexie’s suggestion above about volunteering with intellectually challenged people, if possible.

    If she or her friends (or your friends) use the word around you, a mild comment like “[Optional endearment], we don’t use that word/phrase” reminds her of the conversations you’ve already had. Soon, you won’t even have to comment, just give her “the look.” Eventually, she’ll begin correcting herself, and the word will start disappearing from her vocabulary.

    dianne:
    Voter fraud concerns made sense back in the days when parties were paying people to vote multiple times or there were back-room shenanigans, but nowadays? We can’t get the majority of registered voters to come out and vote, much less get eligible voters to register.

    But we’re supposed to believe there are great hordes of unscrupulous and ineligible voters just willy-nilly casting ballots all over the place (or over and over again) and somehow affecting election outcomes?

  86. 586
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    I have no time or interest in pickling them.

    wish I lived nearby, I’d pickle the hell out of them

  87. 587
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Spent last night alternating between WTC dreams and cub scout dreams. Not a good night. On the bright side, although details are filling in, there has been no ‘boot dropping’ moment. And the dreams are alternating, not combining.

    Happy Monday to all! Well, today is Tuesday but I was on R&R yesterday so today is Monday but there is no Wednesday this week.

    As long as your federal ID has your name, photo, and an expiration date (but hasn’t expired), it’ll work for voting.

    That’s good.

  88. 588
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Socio-gen:

    (I kid! I kid! Penn-York rivalry is a long and honored tradition. I think I’m supposed to steal a mule now…or possibly just raid your farmstead?)

    You best not be eyein’ my wimminfolk, ya hear?

    Seriously, I ♥ NY. Even our fucked up state level politics and totally inefficient bureaucracy provide hours of entertainment, believe me.

  89. 589
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    Well, my wife is registered to vote, and I am not because the douche-canoe at the DMV didn’t enter me into the computer. So here I go again.

  90. 590
    broboxley OT

    sorry if dupe, cant find earlier version

    I used to enjoy seeing stragglers in bikinis
    http://seattle.cbslocal.com/2012/08/15/physician-end-the-war-on-pubic-hair/

  91. 591
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Oh noes, Joe!

  92. 592
    broboxley OT

    interesting, tried to post a link to pubic hair several times and it never gets here, is ther automoderation?

  93. 593
    Lyn M: ADM MinTruthiness

    rorschach #72

    Thanks for the link. I liked the article a lot. The part about the girlfriend who wasn’t very good at playing with dual analogue sticks was funny. She was the one getting the PhD.

  94. 594
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    broboxley:

    Great. Now part of my mind is wondering just what links to pubic hair you wish to post. And why.

  95. 595
    Louis

    Rorschach, #83,

    Thanks for reminding me. :P

    If Assange is what he is charged with being, i.e. a sexual assaulter/rapist, then I, for one, applaud my government, those of the USA and Sweden for so assiduously pursuing such a criminal. Let us only hope that they move promptly forward with this admirable desire to punish rapists, improve the rights of women, and dismantle patriarchal inequalities within their own borders and elsewhere.

    Because that’s what this is all about. Right?

    Louis

  96. 596
    dianne

    @Absolutely, Louis. Just like when the US suddenly expresses concern for the plight of women in, oh, say, Afghanistan or Iraq, it’s totally due to a disinterested love of justice.

  97. 597
    Louis

    Dianne,

    Indeed. I was very proud of my American siblings for so nobly fighting for the cause of feminism abroad.

    Isn’t it wonderful to be on the side of the good guys no matter what you do?

    Louis

  98. 598
  99. 599
    broboxley OT

    Odd that link made it thru, the other links had the words war on “subject” in them

  100. 600
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    WRT Assange:

    I’m willing to believe that the Swedes are genuine in their motives for pursuing him. I’m also willing to believe that he’s a sexual predator (his commentary that Sweden is the “Saudi Arabia of feminism” is part of this).

    I am also willing to believe that the UK is not being genuine, i.e. that they’re out to punish him for Wikileaks.

    The one bright spot is that I am skeptical that Sweden will extradite him to the US, especially so long as the death penalty is left on the table.

  101. 601
    Louis

    Estelth,

    I sincerely hope you are correct.

    Louis

  102. 602
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    As near as I can tell, Julian Assange believes in Julian Assange. Having a huge ego isn’t a crime, but it can make you an asshole.

    Assange is an asshole. He’s also been right on a number of things. But yet, he’s still an asshole. Being an asshole is not a crime. Thinking that you’re more important than others, so you can take what you want, however, is.

    All which to say: if he’s a rapist (and based on the evidence I’ve seen, I think he probably is), let him face Swedish law. But srsly. Releasing the Wikileaks documents was the right thing to do.

    (Also, Breanna Manning is a hero who should be treated as such.)

  103. 603
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    (Also, Breanna Manning is a hero who should be treated as such.)

    Yes.
    Since that is too much to expect, I just hope he gets released. Soon.

  104. 604
    Louis

    Esteleth,

    In all seriousness, you’ve captured exactly how I feel about it. I won’t defend Assange the man from the little I know of him, but the Wikileaks thing was good. We need that kind of accountability for the powers that be as a minimum.

    Mind you, that’s exactly why we know who Assange is. One more rapist, abhorrent as they are, in the world rarely makes global headlines. I despise, as I suspect many do, the apparent “convenience” of the crimes he is accused of. I hate the fact that that apparent convenience cheapens a genuinely serious crime (rape).

    Louis

  105. 605
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Shit, sorry. I didn’t read the name properly and I have forgotten that Bradley Breanna Manning is trans.

    Sorry.

    Since that is too much to expect, I just hope she gets released. Soon.

  106. 606
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    Can anyone tell me why Assange hasn’t been extradited directly to the U.S. if that’s the ultimate plan?

  107. 607
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    E:

    (Also, Breanna Manning is a hero who should be treated as such.)

    I would give my left tit to convince blogs/news outlets to stop misgendering her.

  108. 608
    carlie

    Or, well… maybe not? Shit is weird, and all is obviously not as it seems.

    I think it’s pretty clear-cut: Guy rapes woman (women?). But bitches ain’t shit, so it doesn’t matter.

  109. 609
    Lyn M: ADM MinTruthiness

    Have to wade in on the Assange as probably asshole.

    I read a very long interview with him in the New Yorker just as the big story about the cables broke. His self-description troubled me. His up-bringing by a mom who seems to have been deranged was also an issue. I have also read everything released about the Swedish charges. It seems to me there is something there to investigate for sure.

    I also agree the States has an agenda. No kidding. Made them look bad, and that’s not a smart move usually.

    Breanna Manning, tough row to hoe. I sure hope there is justice for her at some point.

  110. 610
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    (That was not aimed at you, beatrice! Didn’t refresh!)

  111. 611
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    Louis:

    Mind you, that’s exactly why we know who Assange is. One more rapist, abhorrent as they are, in the world rarely makes global headlines. I despise, as I suspect many do, the apparent “convenience” of the crimes he is accused of. I hate the fact that that apparent convenience cheapens a genuinely serious crime (rape).

    One of the reasons it becomes easier to dismiss the charges against Assange as being trumped up BS rather than a case of him actually being guilty and the evidence to back it up, is the contrast with Europe’s behavior with regards to Roman Polanski, who actually pleaded guilty to a sexual assault against a minor.

  112. 612
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    I agree, Louis. I’m of the belief that were he not Julian Fucking Assange, then the Swedes probably would not be chasing him as hard. They would probably still be chasing him, and Interpol might well be involved, but as hard, and as loudly?

    Also, I’m flatly disgusted by the people who are arguing that either (1) the hero of Wikileaks (sorry, the hero of Wikileaks is Breanna Manning, who gave her country and the world an act of genuine service and bravery, not an arrogant man-child like Assange) should be given a free pass for rape or (2) that the women were put up to making accusations by anti-Wikileaks people.

    *spits*

  113. 613
    Lyn M: ADM MinTruthiness

    By the way, my reference to something to investigate is based on the fact that Assange is wanted for questioning. He refuses to return to explain himself, which is the process followed by Swedish law.

  114. 614
    thunk: y'all know ageism is a thing?

    Well, I’m somewhat disenfranchised.

    1) Not a US citizen
    2) Too young.

    Plenty of opinions though, does that make me a backseat voter?

  115. 615
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    carlie, I don’t think it IS that clear cut. Guy has sex with two women who are also friends in the space of a couple of days, that from what I read at least started out as consensual, women compare notes and contact a journalist. Then they go to the police, charges are filed, charges are dropped, charges are files again, and because of Assange’s political baggage the whole thing can’t be treated as “clear cut” at all.

    I’m not suggesting that “bitchez be lying”… but governments? Yeah, governments be lying. Isn’t that why Julian Assange is famous in the first place?

  116. 616
    Louis

    Improbable Joe

    Yeah. Compare/contrast:

    1) Obnoxious man (possibly) rapes. Also does something that pisses off powerful folk. HE IS TEH EBIL. MUST HAS EXTRADITION!

    2) Obnoxious man (admittedly) rapes. Also does something that powerful people largely find laudable, is also Rich and Popular. HE IS TEH PERSECYOOTED. MUST NOT HAS EXTRADITION!

    Why it’s almost as if the rapey parts were not important or something.

    {Cough}

    Dominique Strauss-Kahn.

    Oopsie!

    Louis

  117. 617
    Bernard Bumner

    I am also willing to believe that the UK is not being genuine, i.e. that they’re out to punish him for Wikileaks.

    The UK has no choice but to comply with the properly filed and legal arrest warrant. Whether it happens to be politically convenient or not, the decision is apparently correct under the law and would seem to be in the best interests of justice (that rape allegations are properly tested via due process of law). English law offered no choice other than to grant the extradition.

    If the UK wanted to send Assange to the US, then extradition would be relatively trivial. Apparently easier than from Sweden.

    If only the justice system of England and Wales was as eager as the Swedish to pursue allegations of rape.

    It is a bad day for justice if rape becomes classified as a political crime, and alleged rapists can seek asylum.

  118. 618
    Pteryxx

    Joe: whether the women were friends, friendly with Assange, had consensual sex before, compared notes, had on-again-off-again charges while interacting with police, and the details of the allegations, ARE ALL CREDIBLE. And very unexceptional. So yeah, mentioning any of that *along with* it being suspicious because it’s Assange, falls into ‘bitchez be lying’ territory, IMHO.

    Frankly I think if the governments actually WANTED to trump up charges against Assange as a pretext to hold him, they would’ve come up with some sort of lurid sex perversion story, probably involving allegations that he’s gay or had sex with men. The typical date-rape scenario is just useless for framing, because as we’ve seen, nobody ever gives a shit.

  119. 619
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Improbable Joe:

    Guy has sex with two women who are also friends in the space of a couple of days, that from what I read at least started out as consensual,

    Something can start out consensual and then become not-so. This is, in fact, what the women say (and Swedish law supports them)

    women compare notes

    “Really? He was a rapey douche to you too? Maybe there’s a pattern and we should warn others!”

    If I remember the allegations correctly, one of the women asserted that she consented to sex with him, so long as he wore a condom, and over her objections, he removed it. Under Swedish law, if one party sets conditions and the other disregards them, this meets the standards for non-consent.

  120. 620
    Lyn M: ADM MinTruthiness

    Improbable Joe

    carlie, I don’t think it IS that clear cut. Guy has sex with two women who are also friends in the space of a couple of days, that from what I read at least started out as consensual, women compare notes and contact a journalist. Then they go to the police, charges are filed, charges are dropped, charges are files again, and because of Assange’s political baggage the whole thing can’t be treated as “clear cut” at all.

    Way I read it was that one woman went to police. Investigation began but got stalled. One of the women did speak to journalists, and at some point the second woman came forward. As far as I know, the two are in touch. Investigation picked up again. Swedish law apparently starts the case, but the next step is for the accused to speak to the police. After that, the police may stop the case again, or actually charge him.

    I too wondered about the timing, but when Assange’s lawyer released documents from the Swedes and I read them, it didn’t seem so fishy. I don’t know why he released the documents either, it was forbidden and in my opinion hurt Assange’s case. It cleared up a lot of stuff about timing and the like.

  121. 621
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Assange’s defense in Sweden, in any case, seems to be a flat-out allegation of “bitches ain’t shit.” Which does not exactly endear him or his cause to me.

  122. 622
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Joe:
    This is going to sound incredibly cynical, but if various governments were going to “stick it” to Assange with trumped up charges, they’d come up with something that’s more, um, “believable” to the general public than having two women accuse him of rape. (They were drunk! It was consenual sex that they later regretted! Etc.)

  123. 623
    Lyn M: ADM MinTruthiness

    Estelth

    That’s what I read too. The other woman said he deliberately tore the condom. In one case, refused to wear one and allegedly began sex before she was fully awake to consent or not. Both of them knew him and consented to a point, but then refused because of the condom issue.

  124. 624
    Bernard Bumner

    Blockquote fail – my first paragraph is quoted from 98, obviously.

  125. 625
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Yeah, if they were going to invent something horrible for him to have done to justify this, they’d at least would have had him kill someone. Or had the victim be a man. Or a child.

  126. 626
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Also: “what he did isn’t illegal in the US!” is a bogus defense, because:
    1) Countries have different laws and legal standards, and
    2) Maybe what he did SHOULD meet the legal standard of rape in the US, douchebag

  127. 627
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Confession time : When the news of rape accusations first reached me, I was of similar opinion as Joe, that something is fishy.

    But I think it really is as you all say. Something that can stick more than rape would have been made up if the sinister they wanted it.

  128. 628
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    E,
    Child pornography charges would turn enough people against him, I think. But rape a couple of women? Pfffft, those sluts were just slutty slut slut sluts slutting it up, anyway.

  129. 629
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    I agree, Audley.

    Fuck, look at Polanski. He got away with raping a girl, largely because she wasn’t (or, is alleged to have not been) a perfect, pure innocent virgin who wept.

    Also, Strauss-Khan. They were only WoC/sex workers.

  130. 630
    Lyn M: ADM MinTruthiness

    I’m out of here for now, but I will for sure come back to read tomorrow. Night all.

  131. 631
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Hi there
    We’Re back home again

    More later, dinner’s waiting

    Caine

    Giliell, of course you can have a virtual rattie! Pick one out.

    I’ve lost track, but is Carrot still up for “adoption”?

  132. 632
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    You know, there’s a simple way that this could have played out if everyone was being honest and on the up-and-up about things: Give Assange immunity from extradition from Sweden to USA.

    Esteleth, the “women compare notes” thing can be taken one of several ways. Could be they conspired to frame up a guy who made promises to both women he never intended to keep… which from what I understand of false rape statistics is the LEAST LIKELY possibility. Second idea is that he did something that was explicitly rape to both women, which I think is somewhat less likely than the third option but MUCH more likely than an out-and-out false claim of rape. The third option is that he pulled an “oh, the condom fell of, let me finish” move on both of them, and what they had seen as an accident became obviously a premeditated move, which explains the filing and dropping of rape charges and the pursuit of the molestation charges.

    So, 2 out of 3 puts him guilty of something, but as a percentage of likelihood of guilt of some crime is isn’t 67% but probably something like 95% or higher. And I’m betting Sweden could get a conviction too. I just don’t like the way it has gotten tied into American politics, or the fact that Sweden wouldn’t have bothered with this much effort to get anyone else they suspect is guilty of this sort of crime.

  133. 633
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    Beatrice:

    Confession time : When the news of rape accusations first reached me, I was of similar opinion as Joe, that something is fishy.

    But I think it really is as you all say. Something that can stick more than rape would have been made up if the sinister they wanted it.

    I see it more like 9/11 conspiracy theories implicating the Bush administration. I don’t believe those conspiracy theories, but I can see how at first glance people might consider them, and it is certainly true that the Bush administration exploited the attacks to invade Iraq for absolutely no good reason.

    I don’t believe the charges against Assange are simply made up, I can see how it looks fishy because of the political baggage Assange carries, and I feel like politicians are exploiting the charges for other less-savory reasons than protecting women from a predator.

  134. 634
    Bernard Bumner

    Many people seem to assume that Assange would be found guilty in Sweden. So far, it has only been shown that there is a case to answer (and one that appears damning), but we know that many trials do not result in a guilty verdict even when the evidence is superficially strong.

    Also, I’m not sure that Polanski would be treated similarly now, and Strauss-Khan is certainly a case of a powerful individual receiving special protection (in this case, Assange merely seems to be treated normally and properly).

  135. 635
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    That would help, I agree, if Sweden agreed to not extradite him to the US (they might do this anyway, especially if the “kill him!” rhetoric continues). I also agree with that reasoning of how the “women compare notes” thing probably worked.

    Honestly, my concern is that once the mouth-breathers realize that Assange is beyond their grasp they’ll intensify the abuse of Manning, who (as I said) I see as the better person and the one more worthy of being lauded. Has Assange said anything in Manning’s defense beyond the perfunctory? Are Assange’s army of lawyers and PR hacks doing anything for Manning? If they have, I haven’t heard of it – which further solidifies my opinion of Assange as a self-centered asshole.

  136. 636
    Bernard Bumner

    You know, there’s a simple way that this could have played out if everyone was being honest and on the up-and-up about things: Give Assange immunity from extradition from Sweden to USA.

    Sweden would require the permission of the UK to extradite Assange on to the US. Anyway, what if there is a case for Assange to answer in the US which is compatible with UK law? (In which case, we couldn’t really say no whether extradition was from the UK or Sweden, unless Assange sought asylum on political grounds. We are duty bound to honour our treaties.)

  137. 637
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Improbable Joe,

    I feel like politicians are exploiting the charges for other less-savory reasons than protecting women from a predator.

    Oh yes, we probably all agree on that. As others have said, if it weren’t for Wikileaks, it is doubtful that so much fuss would be made about two little insignificant rapes.

  138. 638
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Sweden would require the permission of the UK to extradite Assange on to the US.

    Really? Why? Is there a treaty/law to this effect?

  139. 639
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    Oh, and lest I forget, sign me up for the Free Breanna Manning club.

  140. 640
    broboxley OT

    well since Manning is under the Military code of justice there is not a lot that civvy lawyers can do for Manning. She is going to be scapegoated for the US not being able to stop the release of the data.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Ellsberg

    He and Russo faced charges under the Espionage Act of 1917 and other charges including theft and conspiracy, carrying a total maximum sentence of 115 years. Their trial commenced in Los Angeles on January 3, 1973, presided over by U.S. District Judge William Matthew Byrne, Jr.

    Unfortunately for Manning the government has had full control of her so errors wont creep into the trial. It could end up being a death penalty case depending on the charges.

  141. 641
    Bernard Bumner

    Really? Why? Is there a treaty/law to this effect?


    Council Framework Decision of 13 June 2002 on the European arrest warrant and the surrender procedures between Member States
    (2002/584/JHA)

    Article 28

    Surrender or subsequent extradition

    1. Each Member State may notify the General Secretariat of the Council that, in its relations with other Member States which have given the same notification, the consent for the surrender of a person to a Member State other than the executing Member State pursuant to a European arrest warrant issued for an offence committed prior to his or her surrender is presumed to have been given, unless in a particular case the executing judicial authority states otherwise in its decision on surrender.

    4. Notwithstanding paragraph 1, a person who has been surrendered pursuant to a European arrest warrant shall not be extradited to a third State without the consent of the competent authority of the Member State which surrendered the person. Such consent shall be given in accordance with the Conventions by which that Member State is bound, as well as with its domestic law.

    Paragraph 1 basically states that

  142. 642
    Bernard Bumner

    Oops.

    Paragraph 1 basically states that, as far as I can tell, the person can be extradited on to another Member State for crimes committed prior to the execution of the order.

  143. 643
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    A serious argument could be made that as any Soldier who is aware of illegal activity is not only permitted, but obligated to attempt to stop it, inform their superiors, and otherwise oppose the action, Manning’s actions constituted appropriate conduct under the UCMJ.

    Of course, given how much the cards are stacked against her and the treatment she’s already endured, I see little chance of this defense working (much less her being allowed to make it in court).

    In all likelihood, she’s going to be executed. This depresses the fuck out of me. Hopefully, future generations will recognize the rightness of her action.

  144. 644
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Today is the thirty-fifth anniversary of the best death as a career move in two thousand years.

    Here is Elvis with his laughing version of Are You Lonesome Tonight.

    One of my favorite songs about the big E.

    Jordan: The Comeback-Prefab Sprout

    Perhaps I should pull out my DVD of Bubba Ho-Tep tonight.

  145. 645
    thunk: y'all know ageism is a thing?

    Yeah, a lot of hubbub seems to be made about Assange, and not about Manning. :(

    You already said the rest, everyone.

  146. 646
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    OK, so, the slightly longer version of my “hi, I’m back” post.
    So, the holidays are over and all that’s left is pictures and laundry. And memories ;)
    It was really great. We’re not getting much more liberty with regards to distance for our holidays any time soon. The kids still need their frequent breaks and two days is all they can put up with, but we’re getting so much more freedom with regards to things to do. Maybe it struck us that much since we went to the exact same place as last year, but it was really a difference. They’re much more independent and will take care of themselves when we’re putting up the tent or such, and we even could have a three course meal, something unthinkable last year.
    So, yay for kids growing up!

    re: Assange
    I’m so sick and tired of the whole conspiracy bullshit. Same as with DSK: Obviously rich and powerful men who have enemies (and rich and powerful probably has a 100% chance of having those) are innocent by default and whatever is said against them is a false accusation.
    Just like celebrities and politicians never manage to kill themselves in a carcrash, no, it was always some secret service or other.

  147. 647
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    Well, fuck my life.
    I was fired last night.
    This sucks.
    No prospects at the moment, and of course with no college degree, I’m not particularly marketable.
    Is there a corner of the Lounge I can go cry in for a while.

  148. 648
    PatrickG

    Fuck, Tony. That sucks. I’m unemployed too, so if you want some company in the corner…

  149. 649
    David Marjanović

    Mon Tour d’Amérique

    So… I want to plan my US trip. I’d like to book all flights at once, as a multi-stop flight, because that makes them cheaper. But that means I have to plan a lot in advance.

    All I know hope for sure is that I’ll be at the SVP meeting in Raleigh from Oct. 17th to 20th and then go to Rhinebeck the same day.
    I should also visit the collections in DC (Smithsonian), NYC (American Museum of Natural History) and Pittsburgh (Carnegie), but haven’t contacted the curators yet, because of the circular problem of scheduling everything.
    I also hope to spend some extra time in the DC area with assorted local Pharyngulites and in Alabama with Jules (…uh, for the newbies, that’s someone who used to be a regular before Pharyngula moved to FtB and now frequents the Farcebork group) before we can, I hope, go to Skepticon together and meet even more Pharyngulites (Nov. 9th to 11th).
    At some point I hope to visit my uncle and Psych-Oh in Atlanta. That’s not possible before the SVP meeting.

    An ESTA visa waiver is valid for 90 days. I won’t stay that long (a month is more like it). However, to apply for one, I need to know things like my first address in the US.

    So, my question: who else wants to meet me, and when?

    ░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░

    How d’you pronounce Breanna?

    ░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░

    Why do you guys not start a revolution?

    Because they don’t know any of the rest of your comment?

    and enforce his extradition to Sweden, so they can send him to the US which may kill him.

    Would Sweden do that? Isn’t it an EU-wide thing that people must not be extradited to countries (USA explicitly included) that might kill them?

  150. 650
    David Marjanović

    *hugs for Tony*
    *chocolate*
    *happiness tea (with cocoa shell, cinnamon, aniseed, vanilla and stuff)*

  151. 651
    broboxley OT

    Dr Dave, like Psych-Oh I am also in Atlanta (greater)

  152. 652
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    I’m sorry, Tony. Here. You can have my corner. Don’t mind the torn up cover letters. Er, and if you find a CV somewhere, better just nudge it with your foot deeper into the corner. There may or may not be some snot on it.

    Now that I’m done making a fool out of myself , *hugs*.

  153. 653
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Oh no, Tony!
    *hugs!*

  154. 654
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    David:
    Breanna is probably Bree Anna. (At least, that’s how a girl in my highschool pronounced her name.)

  155. 655
    thunk: y'all know ageism is a thing?

    Are you going around the Chicago area, David?

    If you aren’t disregard it, but I live around there. Kinds out of the way, sorry.

    Unless I somehow find my way to Skepticon.

  156. 656
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    David Marjanović, let’s get physical!

    So sorry.

  157. 657
    thunk: y'all know ageism is a thing?

    Aw fuck Tony. *hugs, good tea, etc*

  158. 658
    Louis

    Tony,

    That sucking fucks….or something very much like that.

    I hope you get something better and fulfilling.

    Louis

  159. 659
    thunk: y'all know ageism is a thing?

    Audley:

    That’s how I think of it.

  160. 660
    Socio-gen, something something...

    Solved the cucumber crisis! I kept a few for salad tonight and took the rest to the local food pantry. They were quite appreciative.

    Audley:

    Even our fucked up state level politics and totally inefficient bureaucracy provide hours of entertainment, believe me.

    Well, at least you get some use out of them. The PA legislature can’t even provide entertainment.

    Tony:
    Aw hell. That sucks. *hugs*

    David Marjanović:
    I pronounce it BREE-anna. Whether that’s correct or not, I don’t know.

  161. 661
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Tony:

    That sucks.

  162. 662
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Did someone say cucumber crisis?

    Sorry, I am in that mood today.

  163. 663
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Urgh, sorry to hear, Tony
    Is there anything we can do apart from provoding shoulders to cry on?

  164. 664
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Socio-gen:
    Well, I’ve got a high tolerance for corrupt politics. But at least it seems like our lege is too busy trying to fuck each other over than to worry about piddly shit like voter suppression.

    (Actually, the legislature’s in-fighting over marriage equality was pretty epic. There were a lot of f-bombs thrown around in front of reporters. Good times.)

  165. 665
    Louis

    William Hague’s (UK Foreign Secretary, one of the great Offices of State along with Prime Minister and Chancellor of the Exchequer) comments on Assange’s Ecuadorian political asylum.

    Important claims:

    1) It’s so not about the USA’s attitudes.
    2) It’s so all about our international obligations (obligations like for example, votes for prisoners and the European Commission on Human Rights).
    3) It’s so all about the serious rapey crimes and the Swedish totally said they wouldn’t extradite him to the USA and everything.

    This is the same William Hague who voted for the governments proposal to extend anonymity to defendants in rape cases. To name but one example. Such a feminist!

    I know, I know, political expediency. I know, I know, the whip. I know, I know, reeds bound together are stronger than reeds apart. I just really dislike the “Oh this is SO all about the rape stuff and the women.” bullshit.

    Sorry, but a government (and politician) content to chuck women under the bus with cuts to benefits and frontline services that directly benefit women, especially poor women, and a government (and politician) content to seriously propose measures that would further discourage women to come forward regarding rape, and also content to propose measures to kerb abortion rights DOESN’T FUCKING GET TO PLAY THE “OH WE’RE SO FEMINIST” CARD!

    Sorry, but their brass neck and fucking dishonesty pisses me off.

    Yeah I know there are bigger fish to fry, but that’s my comment on one media/political angle of the Assange thing. Not my comment on all aspects of it.

    Louis

  166. 666
    cicely

    *hugs* for Tony. Damn, that sucks, both deep and wide. *moar hugs*
    -

    [...] I hope, go to Skepticon together and meet even more Pharyngulites[...]

    Woot!!!
    *general rejoicing, with bacon and chocolate*
    -

  167. 667
    opposablethumbs

    Shit, Tony, I’m so sorry. Don’t they even have to give a reason? Or give you a chance to remedy whatever the “problem” is???? ::USB Tea and hugs:: I really hope you get something better before long :(
    .
    re Assange, I have zero confidence in the UK withholding permission to extradite him subsequently from Sweden to the US. And I agree that the only reason any governments care two pins about the rape charges is obviously because the US authorities want to get their hands on him. I’d like him to have cast-iron, no-exceptions-now-or-ever guarantees from the UK, Sweden and anyone else his lawyers can think of that he will never be handed over to the US, and physical protection – probably indefinitely, sadly – such that he can’t be illegally snatched and rendered there. And then I’d like him to stand trial in Sweden for the rape charges.

  168. 668
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    Giliell:
    Can you lie to me and tell me everything’s going to work out in the end?
    It’s difficult to job search between tears of frustration, impending depression, anger at the situation, and the realization that I don’t have much to offer.

  169. 669
    opposablethumbs

    We didn’t fucking extradite Pinochet, ffs. We couldn’t extradite the torturer and murderer of thousands to Spain to stand trial, oh no, couldn’t possibly, great pal of Thatcher’s and all that. ::spits::

  170. 670
    ImaginesABeach

    Tony –

    I’m very sorry to hear that.

    I’m sorry, also, that I read your comment to state that the lack of a college degree makes you “not particularly marriageable.”

    Also, I’m always surprised when people on Pharyngula have a hard time finding a job because I think of you folks as the smartest people ever.

  171. 671
    broboxley OT

    Tony, what do you do and where are you located? Yeah, I was told my contract wasnt extended at 4:30 on the drive home last time it happened to me. Really sux

  172. 672
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    Fuck Tony… I’m sorry you got fired, and I hope you can find a replacement job quickly!

  173. 673
    carlie

    Oh jeez, Tony, I’m so sorry.

    David, I want to see you!!! I’m not in your line of travel except for at Rhinebeck, though, so it will just be wrapped up in that.

  174. 674
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    @Tony
    That sucks, man. *Hugs* and all that. Hope you find something soon.

    RE:Assange
    As far as I’m concerned, Assange should be immediately shipped back to Sweden by whoever’s got him, where he should stand trial for the crimes against persons which he stands accused of there. He should on no account be extradited to the U.S., however, because he has committed no crimes of any sort on U.S. soil, nor have any of his actions in regard to the U.S. been legitimately criminal, regardless of the current state of the laws. Breanna Manning, OTOH, has not even been accused of anything that I would consider actual wrongdoing, and deserves to be released immediately, receive a full pardon, a large settlement, and a formal commendation for her actions, not that I believe she’s going to get it.

  175. 675
    opposablethumbs

    Tony, I know I’ve never met you in rl but I do know one thing you’ve got to offer – seriously excellent personal communication skills. Pretty essential for any work that involves … dealing with people! You’d be brilliant at anything that is about interacting with the public or mediating between departments or businesses. Any kind of retail, any kind of entertainment and leisure management … gym staff, gym management … wrangling teenagers on after-school or out-of-school activities …

    I only know about your being a barman, and I suspect you’re an exceptionally good one (from the tales you tell), but heck I wish you ran my local gym or taught my kids after school. What kinds of things are you thinking of? (sorry, this is probably too soon and you’re still kind of in shock. Maybe later?)

  176. 676
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Rhinebeck. :(

    *grumble grumble*stupid DarkFetus*grumble*

  177. 677
    carlie

    Audley – what, coming with a +/- 10 day old doesn’t sound appealing? Do not worry, some of us northeasterners have started thinking about how to do a small baby-welcoming get-together a couple of months in once you have your parenting legs.

  178. 678
    Tethys

    Tony

    :( Getting fired sucks. Don’t worry, everything will turn out fine. *bacon-chocolate-hugs*


    Gilelle

    Welcome home! Carrot is my virtual rat, and possibly going to be my real rat if I can figure out the logistics. I will share him though if he is your favored virtual ratlet.

  179. 679
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    ImaginesABeach:

    I’m sorry, also, that I read your comment to state that the lack of a college degree makes you “not particularly marriageable.”

    Thanks for that chuckle. I needed that.

    ****

    broboxley:

    Tony, what do you do and where are you located? Yeah, I was told my contract wasnt extended at 4:30 on the drive home last time it happened to me.

    I’ve been bartending for 12 years (it really is getting time to get out of the industry, but I don’t have the proper skills or education at this juncture for that to be feasible). I’ve been living in NW Florida for nearly a decade now.

    From what I was told, my ‘money handling skills’ were poor. Our bar has been open for a year (next month). In that time my money handling has been consistently good, except for the last two months or so. I really don’t know why all of a sudden my cash register is turning up short some days and over other days, but I was verbally warned about a month ago, and I’ve been trying like hell to manage things better (although given that I wasn’t sure what I was doing wrong, it’s somewhat difficult to pinpoint the problem). Apparently last night was the final straw, when my register was short $24. Part of the fucked up thing is that none of the bartenders gets to watch management count the register. That’s done in the office, typically alone. I have some issues with that; especially with one manager in particular that several employees don’t trust. But I have no proof, so there isn’t anything to go on.
    I’m really starting to hate the month of August. Last year, at the beginning of August I was fired from my prior job of 7 years (this had nothing to do with performance, and everything to do with a manager who wanted me gone b/c I dared speak up on behalf of employees who were treated like shit).

  180. 680
    Lynna, OM

    Oh dear, this could be bad news. The Democratic Party is having trouble registering new voters? While some of the downturn could be a slackening of enthusiasm for Obama, who is no longer new new new, some of the downturn could also be the result of successful campaigns by Republicans to put up roadblocks to traditional Democratic Party voter registration procedures.

    … In stark contrast to 2008, when a strong partisan tailwind propelled Democratic voter registration to record levels, this year Republican and independent gains are far outpacing those of Democrats.

    In Florida, Iowa, North Carolina, Colorado, and Nevada — tossup states where direct election-year comparisons could be drawn — the numbers are striking. Democratic rolls increased by only 39,580, less than one-tenth the amount at the comparable point in the 2008 election.

    At the same time, GOP registration has jumped by 145,085, or more than double for the same time four years ago. Independent registration has shown an even stronger surge, to 229,500, almost three times the number at this point in 2008….

    Jan Leighley, an American University professor of political science with a specialty in voter turnout, sees merit in the Obama camp’s explanation. “To say ‘We did a lot in 2008 and we’re not going to repeat those numbers in terms of a percentage increase’ is a legitimate point,” said Leighley. “Registration is not the endgame; the endgame for the campaign is to get people to the polls,” she said….

  181. 681
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Carlie:
    :) Two weeks before my due date, actually. So, either I’ll either be HUGE (and under travel restrictions) or I’ll have a tiny, tiny wee one.

    And you guys are so sweet!

  182. 682
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’m giving up on real life for the rest of the day/week. Instead of the real world, I will be immersing myself in beer, movies with boobies in them, and videos of cute/awesome animals. I am going to crack open a Hopsecutioner, and watch a video of TreT, the Ukranian parkour dog. Later, I will be watching Piranha DD.

  183. 683
    carlie

    Audley – well, that means “I kind of mentioned it to one person and have been meaning to get on that ever since”… so I guess I should get on that. ;)

  184. 684
    Muse

    Crap Tony – I’m sorry that sucks.

    David – I’d love to see you while you’re in my area.

    All – it’s never fun meeting the MRAish skeptics in real life. Onion Girl dragged me to skeptics in the pub. I got into an argument about feminazi with a gentleman who appeared to think his anus made a lovely chapeau. He was, at the time, attempting to give oniongirl and I lovely Chill Girl cookies for our opinion on harassment policies at TAM. We declined to let the comparison with nazi’s slide. I was thoroughly educated about how privilege is imaginary, sociology needed to be reviewed by him in order to accept the consensus in the field (not being a real science and all), that the Nazi’s didn’t really want to kill the Jews, and how a 60-year-old not flirting with a 25-year-old was comparable to Nazism. Also that apparently refusing to fuck men for political reasons is also like the Nazis. He also informed us that he was above average in looks and intelligence. I did not ask him if he’d made the acquaintance of Drs Dunning and Krueger.

  185. 685
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    I would love to give up on real life, but I have to compose a cover letter for a really brilliant job I have no chance of getting. Since it costs me nothing (except the remains of my fragile self-confidence), I’ll apply anyway. Besides, I had a chance to forget real life for ten days already, I had to get back to it sometime.

  186. 686
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Muse:

    Nazi’s didn’t really want to kill the Jews

    What.
    The.
    Everlovin’.
    Fuck??

  187. 687
    lipwig

    When I first heard of Assange hiding out in the Equadorian Embassy in London I had a Monte Pythoneque image of him running, frantic and confused, down one of the streets in London that has a high concentration of non-super-power Embassys and choosing one at random.

  188. 688
    thunk: y'all know ageism is a thing?

    Muse:

    Nazi’s didn’t really want to kill the Jews

    Wha?

    |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

    My other problem with Skeptics in the Pub is that it’s held in pubs.

    (As mentioned by the Teen Skepchicks at CONvergence)

  189. 689
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Muze,

    Being compared to Nazis is bad, but Nazis weren’t really bad… How is that working for him?

  190. 690
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Tethys

    Carrot is my virtual rat, and possibly going to be my real rat if I can figure out the logistics. I will share him though if he is your favored virtual ratlet.

    No worries, I think there are enough rats for everyone. As I said, I just lost track ;)

    Tony
    Sounds fishy, the money counting.
    Hopefully there’s a bar run by decent people who need a good barkeeper *hugs*

  191. 691
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    I continue to be confused at my email updates for Lounge posts. I noticed this a few months back, but I don’t get all the updates sent to my email (which I read on my cellphone usually). For instance, I got comments 186, 185, 183, 181, 177, and 173 sent to my mailbox. Aside from my posts, all the other missing posts haven’t shown up. It makes following things confusing at times.

  192. 692
    thunk: y'all know ageism is a thing?

    Giliell:

    I’ve never had any track; probably won’t be a good candidate if I see them as a monolithic blob of Rat.

  193. 693
    David Marjanović

    *hugs for Beatrice, cicely and Audley*

    Thanks, everyone, for the information on Breanna.

    Are you going around the Chicago area, David?

    Not likely; the closest I ought to get is Pittsburgh.

    Dr Dave, like Psych-Oh I am also in Atlanta (greater)

    :-)

    David Marjanović, let’s get physical!

    I’ll watch that ASAP. :-)

    Also, I’m always surprised when people on Pharyngula have a hard time finding a job because I think of you folks as the smartest people ever.

    Dirty little secret: being smart doesn’t anywhere near guarantee you a job anymore. Nothing anywhere near guarantees you a job anymore… except, I suppose, corruption.

    David – I’d love to see you while you’re in my area.

    That’s where Mattir and onion girl will keep me there for some time anyway, right? :-)

    that the Nazi’s didn’t really want to kill the Jews

    Failure as a country to have a working school system.

  194. 694
    thunk: y'all know ageism is a thing?

    David:

    Not likely; the closest I ought to get is Pittsburgh.

    Aww. I’ll try to find a way to skepticon.

  195. 695
    Bernard Bumner

    re Assange, I have zero confidence in the UK withholding permission to extradite him subsequently from Sweden to the US.

    Possibly not, but:
    a) It could be that Assange has a legal case to answer in the US, and therefore the UK or Sweden would be compelled to extradite him. That is simply a matter of responsibilities under current treaties.
    b) Neither country could legally extradite him if he was facing an unfair trial, extrajudicial justice or the death penalty (under the ECHR).
    c)Why would the US not simply seek his extradition from the UK on Espionage charges?

    And I agree that the only reason any governments care two pins about the rape charges is obviously because the US authorities want to get their hands on him.

    Should his alleged victims care? Don’t they have a right, doesn’t society have a right to justice?

    I’d like him to have cast-iron, no-exceptions-now-or-ever guarantees from the UK, Sweden and anyone else his lawyers can think of that he will never be handed over to the US,…

    So, even if evidence of Assange committing a crime in the US (say, rape) was uncovered, he could never be extradited to answer those charges? I’m not sure that there would be any legal basis for such protection. Note that Assange already has the right to claim asylum from political prosecution (which is what he is claiming here).

    …and physical protection – probably indefinitely, sadly – such that he can’t be illegally snatched and rendered there. And then I’d like him to stand trial in Sweden for the rape charges.

    If this was a credible threat, why hasn’t the US already done it from the UK (and particularly before he entered hiding)?

    At the moment, the US has not sought Assange’s extradition. Sweden has, and due to allegations of the most serious category of sex crime.

    This should be a story about the rights of rape victims, not about a man claiming political asylum when no politically-motivated charges have even been leveled.

  196. 696
    broboxley OT

    Tony,
    being one of those managers in another life who counted money in the back alone, I was called everyday by the bank because my addition/subtraction didnt match theirs when they were trying to do the night deposits.

    Hope you get something soon. At worst case (shudder) you could apply at the rat

  197. 697
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Since the Nazis didn’t really want to kill millions of Jews, was that douchenozzle arguing that they were forced into perpetrating The Holocaust? Did the people who died in concentration camps deserve to be starved, tortured, enslaved, and murdered?

    Ugh. It upsets my stomach just trying to wrap my head around that dude’s thinking. I would not have been able to keep calm in that situation.

  198. 698
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    opposablethumbs:
    Thank you so much for the kind words.
    There’s a certain irony in someone online being able to recognize the talents of an individual they’ve never met IRL, yet said individual doesn’t see those talents in themselves.
    As for too soon, no. It’s not. I’m waffling between wallowing and wanting to be productive. The former is winning out at the moment, and is aided and abetted by my natural inclination to procrastinate.

  199. 699
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    Joe:

    …and watch a video of TreT, the Ukranian parkour dog.

    Do what? Huh? Seriously? I’ve got to see that!

  200. 700
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    Tony, YouTube is totally free… :)

  201. 701
    Lynna, OM

    Kansas, Koch, Krazy.

    …the GOP rout depended on the candidates’ pro-life credentials and is a reflection of Kansas pro-life persistence, hard work and prayer.”

    It was also a reflection of a concerted alliance between groups like the Kansas Chamber of Commerce, which received more than half of its war chest from the Koch brothers, and the state’s famous antiabortion hard-liners. The result is a purge not only of centrist Republicans, but even consistently antiabortion politicians who had nevertheless angered Kansans for Life….

    http://www.salon.com/2012/08/16/kansas_gets_even_crazier/

  202. 702
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Ohhh yeah, my own shower.
    You never really appreciate it.

    Caine
    Looking around, can Gytha be my rat? Somehow I always identified with Nanny Ogg anyway :)

    BTW, on my holidays I read one of Jim C. Hines’ Princess Novels and fell in love with them. Light, funny reading with Princesses who actually do something

  203. 703
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Feel the love that Cryptkeeper has for orphans from outside the US.

    They might grow up weird.

    …you just never know what’s been done to a child before you get that child; what kind of sexual abuse there has been, what kind of cruelty, what kind of food deprivation…

    As always, we must respect faith based hatred. It would be mean to do otherwise.

  204. 704
    mythbri

    I work in a mostly-male environment. We have 35 employees, 4 of which are women. I’m accustomed to being the only woman in the room at any given time. This has been mostly fine, although I’m exceedingly thankful I haven’t had any really bad harassment situations, as I doubt the company’s ability to handle that to my satisfaction (or to the law’s satisfaction, for that matter). Most of the time I don’t notice it, but there are some things that crop up now an again.

    For example, I got into a brief discussion about abortion with one of my (male) co-workers. He cycled through the typical anti-choice arguments while I stood firm on my rock of bodily autonomy, and finally he got frustrated and said, “You only think that because you’re a woman!”

    YUH THINK?! (Although I’m well aware that respect for bodily autonomy is far from being exclusive to any gender.)

    *Headdesk*

  205. 705
    StarStuff, a soulless cunt

    My comment has been eaten three times now. Is anyone else having trouble?

  206. 706
    StarStuff, a soulless cunt

    Welp, that one worked. I’m not sure what word(s) were bad, but I was just asking about skepticon.

  207. 707
    StarStuff, a soulless cunt

    Anyway, is anyone going to Skepticon?

  208. 708
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Since the Nazis didn’t really want to kill millions of Jews, was that douchenozzle arguing that they were forced into perpetrating The Holocaust?

    It had to be done, the Nazi’s were fighting for their lives! Why, the Bolsheviks were coming! Everyone knew that the Bolsheviks were the puppets of the Jews. How else could the invasion be stopped?

    (Just do not bother asking about the Nazi invasion of the USSR. It was purely a defensive war. It was to prevent the invasion of the Bolsheviks.)

    {I know, very twisted logic. But one can clearly see how Feminists are just like Nazis.]

  209. 709
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    It had to be done, the Nazi’s were fighting for their lives!

    But one can clearly see how Feminists are just like Nazis.

    And that’s the part I don’t get. Someone clearly justifies Nazis and then turns around and insults someone by calling them Nazis. But if Nazis weren’t really bad… ???

  210. 710
    Inaji

    Giliell:

    Looking around, can Gytha be my rat? Somehow I always identified with Nanny Ogg anyway :)

    Yes! I’ll be painting her portrait soon. :)

    Tony, oh, that’s awful. *hugses*

    Busy, busy, back to work.

  211. 711
    thunk: y'all know ageism is a thing?

    Starstuff:

    Maybe.

    I’ll try to find a way.

  212. 712
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Beatrice, Nazis are magical innocent monsters. Shit, they can be anything you need to make your point.

  213. 713
    Muse

    The argument was actually that the Germans just didn’t want to live with them, they didn’t want to kill them.

    As evidence, they didn’t start the concentration camps until 1939, having been in power for longer. So it was really just a separatist movement – just like political lesbianism.

    Yes, my brain hurt.

  214. 714
    PatrickG

    If you’ve ever watched Dead Snow, you must have felt at least some empathy for those poor zombie Nazis losing their Nazi gold.

    Just pointing out that being a zombie Nazi sounds like a really raw deal. We should pity them.

  215. 715
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    The argument was actually that the Germans just didn’t want to live with them, they didn’t want to kill them.

    Oh well, that would make it all fine then.

  216. 716
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    To bad the brainstem does not realize that concentration camps were opened shortly after the Nazis took power in 1933.

    And that the Nazis started hunting and murdering Jews in Poland as soon as they invaded. Poland was to be the testing ground for Nazi theories about the nature of humans.

  217. 717
    cicely

    Aww. I’ll try to find a way to skepticon.

    Please do, thunk; I’d like to meet you!
    :)
    -

    Anyway, is anyone going to Skepticon?

    Yes!
    -
    Caine, how’s your head? Other recently-wounded body parts?
    -

  218. 718
    Muse

    Janine – I did try and point that out. It didn’t go well…

  219. 719
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    I do not doubt you, Muse. I am more making fun of the mindset of these people than commenting on your handling of that idiot.

    Shit, it is this lack of understanding of what Nazis actually were that allows dipshits like Jonah Goldberg make the argument that they were liberal/progressive.

  220. 720
    Muse

    I ended up giving up after I said continuing this behavior is basically saying that you wish to be an asshole. He said yes, I said, I’m done.

  221. 721
    StarStuff, a soulless cunt

    If anyone here is interested in going to Skepticon, but needs help financially, you (maybe) have options! Skepticon is offering travel grants to students and Secular Woman is offering travel grants for those who identify as women. And, of course, Skepticon itself is free.

  222. 722
    StarStuff, a soulless cunt

    cicely:

    Anyway, is anyone going to Skepticon?

    Yes!

    Woo! Is anyone organizing a Pharyngula meet-up or something?

  223. 723
    Lynna, OM

    Paul Ryan’s catholic relatives may have been necrodunked by mormons. What would be really interesting would be to see if some of Mitt Romney’s living relatives have necrodunked Ryan’s relatives. I mean, mormons proxy-baptized the Pope, why not all the other Catholics as well?

    … relatives of Rep. Paul Ryan, the Roman Catholic running mate of the country’s most prominent Mormon, Mitt Romney, were on a list of future baptisms or had the ritual performed on their behalf.

    Helen Radkey told The Huffington Post that despite recent security measures, she found the names of Ryan’s father, grandfather and great-grandfather in a genealogical database open only to Mormons.

    Radkey, whose research is independent, said a search for first names and cross-referencing of dates and birthplaces with information available online revealed entries for:

    Paul Murray Ryan, the Wisconsin congressman’s father. He died of a heart attack in 1986 when Ryan was 16.

    Stanley Martin Ryan, Ryan’s paternal grandfather, who was born in Janesville in 1898 and died in 1957.

    Patrick William Ryan, the paternal great-grandfather, who founded the family construction company and passed away in 1917.

    “Why are names of Paul Ryan’s deceased family in the Mormon database of posthumous rites? This is a Catholic family … with roots in Ireland on his dad’s side,” Radkey said….

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/16/mormon-proxy-baptism_n_1778904.html

  224. 724
    thunk: y'all know ageism is a thing?

    Starstuff:

    Yup, those women probably need it more than I do.

    I actually have parental units willing to take me places.

  225. 725
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    You know what? I think I’m going to Skepticon.

  226. 726
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    BTW, I’m living in this weird Twilight Zone where I’m worried about being evicted from my house AND considering going to Skepticon and buying a Paul Reed Smith guitar(look it up).

  227. 727
    thunk: y'all know ageism is a thing?

    Ah whatever. I’m probably an entitled ass, thinking I can go to conferences everywhere within a 700 km radius…

  228. 728
    thunk: y'all know ageism is a thing?

    It’s actually mainly a transportation problem for me. I’m sufficiently well-off to go to these places, but I (and a good friend) do not have a car, and my parents are rather tired of cons of any sort.

    What to do…

  229. 729
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    … not driving to Skepticon. No.

  230. 730
    opposablethumbs

    The US authorities may have grounds to think they have a better chance of getting Assange handed over from Sweden (I’m not particularly well-informed in this regard; just what I’ve read). They may prefer to exhaust these possibilities first, before moving on to trying to get him direct from the UK or, eventually, resorting to force to get him there.

    He won’t get a fair trial in the US, so he shouldn’t be sent there/placed in a situation where there’s a likelihood he’ll end up getting sent there.

    None of which is the least impediment to having him tried for the rape charges: if for whatever reason he can’t go to the courtroom in the usual way, then let him be tried in absentia/tried via video link/tried by moving the court temporarily to inside the Ecuadorean embassy.

    There’s no reason why he can’t simultaneously be tried for the rape charges and protected from being rendered to the US. (the same would apply if evidence (whether evidence or “evidence”) were ever uncovered of his having committed a crime in the US; he’d have to be tried elsewhere in order to ensure there was at least a chance of a fair trial).

  231. 731
    Bernard Bumner

    The US authorities may have grounds to think they have a better chance of getting Assange handed over from Sweden (I’m not particularly well-informed in this regard; just what I’ve read).

    No, because they would need the permission of both the Sweden and the UK. Both are bound by the ECHR and therefore have the same responsibility to protect Assange from injustice and harm.

    Assange actually has more legal routes for appeal against extradition from Sweden; the Swedish courts up to the Supreme Court, and the UK courts up to the Supreme Court, and the European Court of Human Rights.

  232. 732
    cicely

    StarStuff:
    In the past, we’ve tended to find each other on-site (I’ve considered doing some sort of octopus-onna-stick banner to rally to). I know that in the past, some of the others have got together off-site (I understand there was boozes and food involved), but I can’t speak to that; Jules or Rey Fox or Erulora might be your better sources of info, there.
    -
    Improbable Joe:

    You know what? I think I’m going to Skepticon

    Awesomeness!!
    (You guys can’t see it, but my grin is wrapped around my whole head, putting it in danger of coming completely unzipped.)
    :) :) :)
    -

  233. 733
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Muse:
    Well, my hat’s off to you. I would have gone ape shit.

  234. 734
    thunk: y'all know ageism is a thing?

    cicely:

    The octopus sticky sounds like a good idea, but getting there’s half the battle. If anyone near Chicago is willing to carpool with me, I’m fine with that…

    Ah, the disadvantages of youth.

  235. 735
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    cicely:

    Don’t get too excited. I haven’t left the house socially on my own since like 2006, so this is still totally notional on my part.

  236. 736
    Inaji

    Cicely:

    Caine, how’s your head?

    Fuzzy. Spiders are building webs in there. I’ve been told I’m not resting enough. Ah well.

    A rather astonishing amount of people immediately looked down at the floor upon seeing my bruised up face on Tuesday. Peoples…

  237. 737
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    If anyone here is interested in going to Skepticon, but needs help financially, you (maybe) have options! Skepticon is offering travel grants to students and Secular Woman is offering travel grants for those who identify as women. And, of course, Skepticon itself is free.

    Ah, now I have all the time in the world to attend stuff like that. Not enough expendable income, nor transportation from here to there though.
    I hope everyone has fun.

  238. 738
    thunk: y'all know ageism is a thing?

    Tony:

    Ah, now I have all the time in the world to attend stuff like that. Not enough expendable income, nor transportation from here to there though.
    I hope everyone has fun.

    Aww. My sympathies.

    Again, sorry about the job loss.

  239. 739
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    Tony,

    I’m not sure which would be better. If you had less time to travel, you’d have the money, and vice-versa. I have the feeling that a magical fairy would provide transportation help to Skepticon if you’re still free in November.

  240. 740
    birgerjohansson

    So that is why Romney picked Ryan:
    “Toxoplasma gondii parasite may trigger suicide attempts” http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-08-toxoplasma-gondii-parasite-trigger-suicide.html
    Since Romney has a dog, I assume it is his kids that have exposed him to Toxoplasma gondii from their cats.

  241. 741
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    The Redhead is the official hostess of this years family reunion, and she was worried about whether she would be really attending or not. I swung by the reserved Park District Picnic Pavilion, and checked out the available rest rooms, etc. I saw no problems other than distance. Which means I’ll be getting my exercise. Nice ramps between the parking lot and the facilities, and both rest rooms had handicapped stalls, which were both (presuming the ladies is the mirror of the mens) large and railed. I foresee her being the social animal all day.

  242. 742
    Part-Time Insomniac

    Aw Tony, geeze. That sucks. Jesus, I’m wondering what was going on during that counting in the office – someone pocketing some extra?
    ——————————————-

    As proud as I was of the USA’s performance in the Olympics (well, mostly), I have a hard time with the “don’t cheer for them, cheer only for the US!” shit. Why does being from one country seem to mean that I can’t be happy when another country’s athlete sees all their hard work pay off in the end, especially when the US team is the one they’re challenging? I certainly didn’t care if the US wasn’t entered in a competition at all – for me, it wasn’t about blindly cheering this country on. I wanted to see who would take the medals and prove their ability, regardless of which nation they represent.

    *sigh* I need to stop watching the Games with Mom. Every time she said, “I hate the Chinese, I hope they lose,” I wanted to scream. If someone said that about the USA, she’d cry bloody murder.

  243. 743
    Part-Time Insomniac

    Also, hugs and chocolate and booze to all who need it. From the few posts I’ve read here so far, the booze and hugs will be especially welcome, so *dumps extra cartloads of both onto the floor*

  244. 744
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    Why doesn’t anyone ever offer hugs and nachos and booze? I like nachos!

  245. 745
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    Crap. My in-laws just had to put down one of their cats. She had to be nearly 20 years old, and she was missing an eye, but she was a good kitty and she’ll be missed. I barely knew her, but I remember that she loved her mommy and daddy and had a really loud purr when she’d rub up against them.

  246. 746
    carlie

    Joe – I’m sorry about the kitty. I have a plate of loaded nachos here if you’d like some…

  247. 747
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    I’m sorry about the kitty, Joe.

    And here’s some nachos. I’m forgetting who’s in charge of the bar around here.

  248. 748
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    And here’s some nachos. I’m forgetting who’s in charge of the bar around here.

    It’s Patricia’s bar, but I’m GrogMaster and sometimes bartender. Help is transient, like Janine, Mr. Fire, the Pullet Patrol™ anybody in the bar, etc. My time is presently taken up with doing things like “walking the Redhead, BARK” (her joke, not mine). Time for the next round.

  249. 749
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    You folks are really sweet and kind… it wasn’t MY cat, but it was a cat I have met and I’m sort of soft on all little furry kids. I’m sort of extremely soft, I’m broke as fuck and I’m feeding a bunch of strays on my porch because a pair of strays had kittens under my porch and I can’t imagine one of them starving to death there a few feet away from me because I’m too selfish to buy some kibble instead of a couple of 12-packs of Pepsi.

    And when I think about how I feel about kittens under my porch, and compare it to how my in-laws must feel about a cat they’ve been caring about for almost 2 decades? I’m torn up for them as much as I am for their poor passed-on kitten. My wife tells me that her normally stoic mother is in tears for that cat… which means that her pain must be pretty extreme, and I’m hurting for her right now.

  250. 750
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    As proud as I was of the USA’s performance in the Olympics (well, mostly), I have a hard time with the “don’t cheer for them, cheer only for the US!” shit.

    I enjoy most the athletes who are not expected to win a medal but have the performance of their life and win — bronze, silver or gold doesn’t matter. Those bring a smile to my face.

    Why doesn’t anyone ever offer hugs and nachos and booze? I like nachos!

    The tortilla chips scrape the electrons off of the inside of the USB cable and the cheese gums it all up.

  251. 751
    Part-Time Insomniac

    The tortilla chips scrape the electrons off of the inside of the USB cable and the cheese gums it all up.

    Yep. And then you can’t send the booze through. Maybe we could send the nachos but with the cheese in a bag on the side?

  252. 752
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    Joe:
    I’m sorry for you MIL’s loss. It does suck to have to put down a beloved feline companion.
    I find your compassion for the kittens-even in the face of being broke-to be admirable.

  253. 753
    Manu of Deche

    Out of context, but full of WIN:
    We’re NASA ans We Know It
    Make sure to crank up the volume to 11.

    (Sorry if this has already beem posted)

  254. 754
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    Today is a wormy sort of day, cold, gray, windy and miserable. Our rain gauge said that we got 27.5mm overnight, the creek is rising and the rail trail was covered in worms fleeing the damp. So many that there was no way to avoid running them over.

    My wife and child are on a plane today. Without me. Now I know that the most dangerous part of this trip happens in the car to and from the airport. I know this. But it’s a wormy sort of day.

    I can’t escape the feeling that all I love is at real risk. That irrational fear worms into my thoughts every few minutes, I can’t avoid it. Would that I was one of the straw-Vulcan skeptics, capable of turning off my emotions at will.

    So I try to focus on work, a custom built lugged steel bike with a Roloff hub and beautiful green paint. I eat too much chocolate and avoid the weather radar. I wait for the plane to land, the sun to come out and the worms to return underground, out of sight, but still in mind, waiting for the next time they’re flushed out by a wormy sort of day.

  255. 755
    Alethea Kuiper-Belt

    ‘rupt for now. Catch up later. Am going to Sydney where I shall drink amazing beer and see the Star Wars Burlesque show. Yay!

    The beer in question: http://www.murraysbrewingco.com.au/manly/

  256. 756
    QueQuoi

    I am contemptuous as all fuck with all these godsdamn, mysogynist, asshole “skeptics”. It reached a peak today reading Justin’s blog about Surly Amy’s treatment at SkepchickCON 2. To keep the steam that was coming out of my ears from steaming the wallpaper off, I started a Tumblr page: quequoi dot tumblr.com

    It’s called “Love for FtB and Skepchick” and is meant to be a way for people to have their messages of support, or LOLcats/squids for laughs posted for the wonderful bloggers at these two spaces. If you’d like to send me something to post, send it to quequoi at gmail.com along with how you want attribution. I will of course keep all emails confidential. (I am hesitant to just open up the page to any posters)

    I’m not sure it will go anywhere, but liked the idea of a public space where PZ et al. could go to see all the support they all really have.

    Hope you all have a lovely evening/morning/afternoon.

  257. 757
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    Like a great many people around the world, I’ve had occasional bouts of back pain. One incident-several years ago-was so severe, getting out of bed proved difficult. Walking, sitting, and moving brought on tremendous pain. I had to go to an emergency clinic and all they did was give me some medication. A few days later I felt better. Not sure if it was the drugs, rest, my body’s natural healing ability or some combination thereof. Anecdotes like the following make me glad I didn’t go to a chiropractor:

    A case report published in the Annals of Internal Medicine July 17, 2012, describes a 37 year old nurse who had a history of chronic neck pain. She had been getting neck manipulations from her chiropractor once a month for 12-15 years! (One can only conclude that the manipulations had not accomplished much.) She developed a new symptom (pain when turning her head up and to the right), and at her 4th visit in a week, during neck manipulation, she heard a loud pop and immediately had the sensation that the room was spinning. She developed visual disturbances, vomited, and had a loss of balance, persistently falling to the left. The chiropractor failed to recognize her symptoms as signs of a stroke.
    {…}
    It’s been said before, but I’ll say it again: any degree of risk is unacceptable when there is no benefit. A Cochrane systematic review has shown that HVLA manipulations are no more effective for neck pain than gentle mobilization and that neither is effective unless used in conjunction with an exercise program. And there is even less evidence for benefit in non-neck-related conditions. NUCCA practitioners and other chiropractors who manipulate necks for almost any complaint are clearly out of line.
    http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/chiropractic-strokes-again-an-update/#more-22072

  258. 758
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    QueQuoi:
    I share your contempt.
    I am unable, however, to find this tumblr that you’ve created.

  259. 759
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    never mind. I’m an idiot.

  260. 760
    rorschach

    Ah, another day ! Unfortunately it’s the day when Russia is likely going to send 3 young women to labor camp for 3 years for offending religious sensibilities.

  261. 761
    strange gods before me ॐ

    that the Nazi’s didn’t really want to kill the Jews

    Failure as a country to have a working school system.

    In this case, I don’t think that’s it. Our schools do cover the Holocaust multiple times, beginning in elementary school.

    Anyway, how do you account for David Irving?

  262. 762
    PZ Myers

    NEW THREAD.

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