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Jul 14 2012

An excellent plan

We’re going to distract all attention from our horrible #FTBullies status by a well-tested expedient: We’re going to blame Rebecca Watson for everything. At last, all Deep Rifts are healed!


I must highlight a comment from kosk11348 that encapsulates the whole recent mess.

The best analogy I’ve heard yet for understanding this situation is a fire evacuation plan. Fires are rare, yet it makes sense to have a plan in place. Continuing that analogy, here’s my rundown of the “conversation” thus far:

FTB: “Fire evacuation plans are a good idea. We recommend that all skeptical events have one.”

DJ Grothe: “All this talk of fires scares away attendees. Plus TAM has never, ever had a fire.”

Stephanie Zvan: “Actually, there have been a few small fires at TAM. Remember that trash can that caught on fire?”

DJ Grothe: “Yes, I put that fire out myself. At no time did anyone feel unsafe.”

FTB: “Ok, but you just said…never mind. The point is, because there was no policy in place, we now have no record of the fire, no investigation into the cause of the fire, and no reason to think another fire might happen again. Are you currently training your staff to know what to do in the event of a fire?”

DJ Grothe: “We have a robust fire evacuation plan printed in our literature. It reads: ‘TAM hates fires.’”

FTB: “But that’s not really a plan…”

Russell Blackford: “Is there any evidence that things burn?”

MRAs: “Look, it’s the fire department’s job to handle fires. If you are on fire, call them.”

FTB: “Huh? You’re saying it’s the victim’s responsibility to alert the fire department? What about the responsibility of the organizers…”

MRAs: “#FTB bullies say TAM is infested with arsonists!”

FTB: “What? Nobody is saying that! Arsonists do exist, sure. But we have no reason to think TAM is any worse than the general population in that respect. Look, it’s really simple…”

Ophelia Benson: “You know, I was schedule to speak at TAM, but I just got this really weird letter explaining in great detail about what to do when I find myself in a fire at TAM. Like, seriously detailed. It described the flames singing my hair, peeling my flesh…”

Russell Blackford: “Way to overreact to a helpful warning!”

Thunderf00t: “I will continue to offer to light friends’ cigarettes for them and you can’t stop me!”

Paula Kirby: “The firestasi see fires everywhere because they love to pretend they are all victims of fire, just like the Nazis.”

FTB: “Ok, now this is just getting bizarre…”

Harriet Hall’s T-shirt: “I feel safe from fires at TAM (even though it still doesn’t have a fire evacuation plan)”

FTB: *sigh*

We’re done now.

1,134 comments

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  1. 1
    Skeptic Dude

    Elevatorgate was by far the best thing that ever happened to RW any way you look at it. She previously couldn’t get a blog hit to save her life. Now shes been a “hot topic”, “center of controversy” who can thrive on complaining of amorphous misogony and “privelege” by spewing anecdotes. Unfortunately at some point people will become bored of her victim fetish and her credibility is going to have to stand on her actual contributions to skepticism. Thats gonna suck for her.

  2. 2
    Fred Salvador, Onion Jumbler

    The persecution of street magicians continues unabated. For shame, atheist community; for shame.

  3. 3
    Patricia, OM

    Well that solves the mystery of where that giant pile comes from, that’s in the middle of my lawn every morning.

  4. 4
    Gnumann+,with no bloody irony at all (just an anti-essentialist feminist with a shotgun)

    The real question is when even MRAs and libertarians will get fed up with whining maggots like that septic dude on top here…

  5. 5
    Fred Salvador, Onion Jumbler

    Elevatorgate was by far the best thing that ever happened to RW any way you look at it.

    Elevatorgate was a good thing for the atheist community as a whole, because it allowed the whiny ManRightsMans to expose themselves, that we may all mock their stupid persecution complexes and “mate-deprivation” issues with glee and abandon.

  6. 6
    Rip Steakface

    Count on mentioning RW for douchecannons like Skeptic Dude up there to show up.

  7. 7
    chigau (違う)

    Rebecca Watson sneaks into my house and drinks all the rum.

  8. 8
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Ha! You are all late, I figured this out days ago:

    You naive fools, it’s* Rebecca Watson’s fault.

    *it can stand for anything you wish.
    Example: I had to do my surveys today, but couldn’t find the addresses because the bus driver didn’t even know that part of town exists and several people gave me wrong directions. It’s Rebecca Watson’s fault!

    5 July 2012

    But I don’t blame you, it’s probably Rebecca Watson’s fault that you are all so slow. ;)

  9. 9
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    I’ve been ready to put elevatorgate behind me for some time now. But some folks have other ideas, and forcing me to take notice of their actions, and over privileged fuckwittery. And I still haven’t got a real and cogent answer as to why a simple “don’t do that” in response to a textbook case of sexual harassment that never should have happened is over the top and castrating all men. Methinks they doth protest too much.

  10. 10
    Inaji

    Unfortunately at some point people will become bored of her victim fetish and her credibility is going to have to stand on her actual contributions to skepticism. Thats gonna suck for her.

    Actually, it’s…people like you that suck for everyone else. Must be wonderful to have such a massive pool of privilege that you think those wimmin problems are just a victim fetish.

  11. 11
    'Tis Himself

    Nerd #9

    You’re missing the point that if Rebecca hadn’t said “guys, don’t do that” then PUAs would be able to harass women with impunity. But by shining a dim light on a jerk’s lame attempt to get laid, she made it impossible for any PUA to get laid at skeptic and atheist conventions.

  12. 12
    PZ Myers

    Yay. First post is by an idiot perfectly exemplifying the problem!

  13. 13
    feralboy12

    Elevatorgate was by far the best thing that ever happened to RW any way you look at it. She previously couldn’t get a blog hit to save her life. Now shes been a “hot topic”, “center of controversy” who can thrive on complaining of amorphous misogony and “privelege” by spewing anecdotes.

    If by “anecdotes” you mean “real actual documented rape threats and hate mail and shit that really happened” then yeah, good point.
    And if by “victim fetish” you mean “willingness to publicly share her experiences being a target of countless misogynistic shitheads,” then whoa, you’re really on to something here.
    Also, I’m having a hard time figuring out how Elevatorgate ever became a “thing” at all if she “couldn’t get a blog hit to save her life.”
    Great comment; all it needed was a complete rewrite for accuracy.

  14. 14
    Inaji

    Chigau:

    Rebecca Watson sneaks into my house and drinks all the rum.

    Rebecca Watson is responsible for my pancreas being alcohol intolerant these days. Trufax.

  15. 15
    Loqi

    Rebecca Watson made Skeptic Dude feel like he should hit the “Submit Comment” button. An unfortunate turn of events indeed.

  16. 16
    'Tis Himself

    Because of Rebecca Watson, I’ve never had sex with a woman or a man in Dublin, Ireland.*

    *That I’ve never been in Dublin has nothing to do with this argument.

  17. 17
    kosk11348

    The best analogy I’ve heard yet for understanding this situation is a fire evacuation plan. Fires are rare, yet it makes sense to have a plan in place. Continuing that analogy, here’s my rundown of the “conversation” thus far:

    FTB: “Fire evacuation plans are a good idea. We recommend that all skeptical events have one.”

    DJ Grothe: “All this talk of fires scares away attendees. Plus TAM has never, ever had a fire.”

    Stephanie Zvan: “Actually, there have been a few small fires at TAM. Remember that trash can that caught on fire?”

    DJ Grothe: “Yes, I put that fire out myself. At no time did anyone feel unsafe.”

    FTB: “Ok, but you just said…never mind. The point is, because there was no policy in place, we now have no record of the fire, no investigation into the cause of the fire, and no reason to think another fire might happen again. Are you currently training your staff to know what to do in the event of a fire?”

    DJ Grothe: “We have a robust fire evacuation plan printed in our literature. It reads: ‘TAM hates fires.’”

    FTB: “But that’s not really a plan…”

    Russell Blackford: “Is there any evidence that things burn?”

    MRAs: “Look, it’s the fire department’s job to handle fires. If you are on fire, call them.”

    FTB: “Huh? You’re saying it’s the victim’s responsibility to alert the fire department? What about the responsibility of the organizers…”

    MRAs: “#FTB bullies say TAM is infested with arsonists!”

    FTB: “What? Nobody is saying that! Arsonists do exist, sure. But we have no reason to think TAM is any worse than the general population in that respect. Look, it’s really simple…”

    Ophelia Benson: “You know, I was schedule to speak at TAM, but I just got this really weird letter explaining in great detail about what to do when I find myself in a fire at TAM. Like, seriously detailed. It described the flames singing my hair, peeling my flesh…”

    Russell Blackford: “Way to overreact to a helpful warning!”

    Thunderf00t: “I will continue to offer to light friends’ cigarettes for them and you can’t stop me!”

    Paula Kirby: “The firestasi see fires everywhere because they love to pretend they are all victims of fire, just like the Nazis.”

    FTB: “Ok, now this is just getting bizarre…”

    Harriet Hall’s T-shirt: “I feel safe from fires at TAM (even though it still doesn’t have a fire evacuation plan)”

    FTB: *sigh*

  18. 18
    Sili

    Elevatorgate was by far the best thing that ever happened to RW any way you look at it. She previously couldn’t get a blog hit to save her life.

    So she was invited to speak in Dublin and at CFI because she was a prominent blogger because of the controversy of her speaking in Dublin and at CFI?

    Ouch. My brain hurts.

  19. 19
    ChasCPeterson

    Everything!
    She… just Everything!!

  20. 20
    ChasCPeterson

    by which I mean:
    Not just some stuff!!

  21. 21
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    But by shining a dim light on a jerk’s lame attempt to get laid, she made it impossible for any PUA to get laid at skeptic and atheist conventions.

    [Yooper mode]Yeah, sure, hey.[/Yooper mode] ;)

    It must be RW giving the Redhead a diuretic today…

  22. 22
    ChasCPeterson

    Russell Blackford: “Is there any evidence that things burn?”

    lol

  23. 23
    w00dview

    Whoever of the regulars here said that most commenters that have “skeptic”, “reason” or “rational” in their usernames are condescending, self important douchenozzles utterly unaware of their own blind spots was bang on the money.

  24. 24
    Sili

    It Rebecca Watson didn’t protect him, Jay Novella wouldn’t be on the SGU.

  25. 25
    The Mellow Monkey: Non-Hypothetical

    Paula Kirby: “The firestasi see fires everywhere because they love to pretend they are all victims of fire, just like the Nazis.”

    This wins.

  26. 26
    Onamission5

    @kosk11348 #17:

    That is an absolutely winning breakdown, and funny to boot.

  27. 27
    myeck waters

    As this is a Presidential election year in the USA, I’ve been blaming everything NOT connected to government on Obama. I’m not about to change that now, so I can only blame government-related things on RW.

    Like the fact that I can’t use two of my favorite apps on my current laptop because they’re too old and can’t run in a 64-bit OS. Gosh darn you Rebecca Watson!

  28. 28
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    kosk11348: Ha!

  29. 29
    sadunlap

    The comments at the link in the post are hilarious. They’re the best LOLs I’ve had all week.

    I hadn’t realized who was to blame for Jar Jar Binks unitl now.

  30. 30
    pentatomid

    kosk11348

    That is genius!

  31. 31
    Stacy

    @kosk11348, #17 was spot on. Cookies and a brand new internet for you!

  32. 32
    chigau (違う)

    kosk11348
    Fresh garden salad and grog for you!
    (Rebecca Watson drank all my rum.)

  33. 33
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    kosk11348′s just trying to start a flamewar.

  34. 34
    Inaji

    My wireless connection is worse than dial-up. I’m lookin’ at you, Rebecca Watson.

  35. 35
    Ms. Daisy Cutter, General Manager for the Cleveland Steamers

    Since I’m still on permanent moderation at Jason’s for hurting his man feefees by calling attention to the triggeriness of the video he posted last month, let me x-post what I said there, here:

    Rebecca Watson invented Crocs.

    Rebecca Watson makes the neighbor’s dog crap on my lawn.

    Rebecca Watson sneaks into the kitchens of fine restaurants and pees in the consommé.

  36. 36
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    Rebecca Watson
    1.sabotaged my ceviche con atún y sandia
    2. gave me the wrong directions to Sea World
    3. has encouraged fire-ants to colonize my yard
    4. is the leading cause of spark-plug malfunction
    5. ruined Christmas in 1986 and 1993
    6. ate all of the Honey Almond Flax Go-Lean Crunch™.
    7. makes the Internet slower and causes some pages to alternatively load wonky or refresh like every five seconds, until I’m all like, fuck it, FAILBlog time.
    8. kicked Thunderf00t out of atheism
    9. invented cooties
    10. uses all the toilet-paper and never replaces the roll, much less buys any toilet-paper.

  37. 37
    Inaji

    Ms. Daisy Cutter:

    Rebecca Watson invented Crocs.

    Oh, we are talking true evil now. My, my.

  38. 38
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    10. uses all the toilet-paper and never replaces the roll, much less buys any toilet-paper.

    Oh, that is cruel. ;)

  39. 39
    Inaji

    Rebecca Watson:

    *Makes me use naughty words.

    *Is the primary cause of global warming.

    *Is responsible for my leaky roof.

    *Is doing a damn bad job at managing the weather this Summer.

    *Is causing outbreaks of fertility all over the fucking place and needs to take responsbility for these 26 ratlets! Now!

  40. 40
    ChasCPeterson

    ev
    er
    y

    thing

  41. 41
    Gnumann+,with no bloody irony at all (just an anti-essentialist feminist with a shotgun)

    Does all this mean Rebecca Watson makes me break blockquotes?

  42. 42
    chigau (違う)

    We’re having a bumper crop of raspberries this year…
    wait is it only bad stuff?

  43. 43
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Oh, RW must be responsible for commercial frozen sausage/egg/cheese biscuit breakies, where the cheese always melts long before the rest when microwaved…

  44. 44
    Sili

    Rebecca Watson invented Christianity.

  45. 45
    jonmilne

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96FtpDLi_Vw&list=UUmb8hO2ilV9vRa8cilis88A&index=1&feature=plcp

    Can you please address this? It seems to be a rebuttal of PZ Myers’s video where he gave his side of the conflict. A poor rebuttal, but one that needs addressing nonetheless since there are a lot of relatively ignorant people hanging around FtB who would take Tfoot’s word as gospel.

  46. 46
    advancedatheist

    Rebecca Watson makes the case for sexually segregated atheist gatherings. I kept looking for her at the Reason Rally by searching for a lone woman in the crowd with no one willing to come within a 20 foot radius of her.

    Ironically christians will spin this both ways, since they can’t seem to get their story straight about atheists’ sex lives. Traditionally the christian model of their Fantasy Atheist engages in swinging promiscuity. Yet Rebecca has supplied material for the contradictory stereotype that atheism attracts sexually yucky beta males (the majority of us guys, in other words) who have trouble finding girlfriends.

  47. 47
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Rebecca Watson told Jim Carrey that he’s funny and should try being a comedian.

  48. 48
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson is the atheist Chuck Norris.

  49. 49
    Tethys

    Rebecca Watson was here in the Twin Cities, and caused a horde of japanese beetles to descend upon MY raspberries.

  50. 50
    adamgordon

    I kept looking for her at the Reason Rally

    Kind of a weird fixation you have there, anotheridiot.

  51. 51
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson gave my house an infestation of wool-eating clothes moths in 1995, which I have yet to banish completely. Plus she cannot spell, since I would have been fine with woo-eating moths…

  52. 52
    Inaji

    Sili:

    Rebecca Watson invented Christianity.

    Yes, and she also invented Islam, Judaism, Buddhism and singlehandedly destroyed the Titans!

  53. 53
    Inaji

    Rebecca Watson is preventing the return of Cthulhu.

  54. 54
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson distracted Alan Turing while he was working with poisons.

  55. 55
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Rebecca Watson invented the Big Brother show.

  56. 56
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson coordinated the June 2012 derecho.

  57. 57
    PZ Myers

    jonmilne: I am so fucking tired of thunderf00t’s bullshit, I don’t feel much incentive to do so. I saw that thing was what, 15 minutes long? and felt no interest at all in listening to it.

  58. 58
    Tethys

    Rebecca secretly replaced my premium coffee with Folgers. ™

  59. 59
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson sock-puppeted under the blog-nym “Thunderf00t” on FtB.

  60. 60
    Dexeron

    kosk11348′s comment is golden. Brilliant breakdown.

  61. 61
    strange gods before me ॐ

    Rebecca Watson is the reincarnation of L Ron Hubbard.

  62. 62
    PZ Myers

    Hey, advancedatheist, that comment was so icky and repulsive and dishonest that the banhammer decided that you were too ugly to be within 20 virtual feet of civilized human beings, and splatted you. Not sorry! Sucks to be you!

  63. 63
    Gnumann+,with no bloody irony at all (just an anti-essentialist feminist with a shotgun)

    jonmilne: I am so fucking tired of thunderf00t’s bullshit, I don’t feel much incentive to do so. I saw that thing was what, 15 minutes long? and felt no interest at all in listening to it.

    My usual response to people wanting me to look at YouTube vids used to be “Write it down” – but we all know how that ends.

    I guess it’s because Rebecca Watson directs all videos at YouTube…

  64. 64
    ChasCPeterson

    yep!
    Everything!
    Bring it!

  65. 65
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Rebecca Watson linked to Pharyngula and now I’m spending all my days here.
    Oh, wait, that one’s true. Thanks Rebecca!

  66. 66
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson causes hanging chads.

  67. 67
    PZ Myers

    What? Is it 2004 again?

  68. 68
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Dang PZ, I’ll have to remember to keep the banhammer shield in place unless the topic and response are totally vapid.

  69. 69
    sophielagace

    Brilliant summary.

  70. 70
    Inaji

    PZ:

    Hey, advancedatheist, that comment was so icky and repulsive and dishonest that the banhammer decided that you were too ugly to be within 20 virtual feet of civilized human beings, and splatted you. Not sorry! Sucks to be you!

    Oh please, we all know Rebecca Watson wields the banhammer around here. (At least its no longer a case of me ‘wishing people into the cornfield’ and you obeying my least whim. Thanks, Rebecca!)

  71. 71
    Utakata

    @Mattir, 59:

    “Rebecca Watson is the atheist Chuck Norris.”

    I see Rebecca Watson is also responsible for what went wrong with The Barrens Chat.

  72. 72
    peterhearn

    PZ, I know you’ll never admit you had thunderf00t removed over writing a dissenting opinion. But regardless of his behavior and/or writing skills, he would still be here if his original article was in favor of your bizarre harassment policy based on no evidence.

    Had you not over reacted to his initial post I think he would would have moved on to disproving creationist claims and would be a valuable contributor to the site.

    I hate to say it, but the fact you did a complete 180 and flipped on him over such a pointless article shows that there is an emotional knee-jerk reaction going on in your mind that is completely blocking out any sense of rational/skeptical thought.

  73. 73
    jonmilne

    PZ: I’m sorry, I genuinely did not mean to offend. There was just something about the pure smarmyness and irritating continued sexism by TF that I wanted someone well and truly awesome (a.k.a. you, or indeed someone similar affiliated with Pharyngula or the general FtB populace) to lay a glorious smackdown on it. I enjoyed your last video immensely, and I would have loved to see you (or someone else) engage in even further brilliant pwnage of Tfootinmouth again.

    But again, it was an honest mistake for me to bring this video up here. From the bottom of my heart, I apologise, and I hope I didn’t ruin your day.

    By the way, with regards to the people who criticise the comments sections of areas in FtB especially related to Pharyngula, have these people not ever thought to ask some of the many commenters here, including myself, who have been guilty of making massive faux pas arguments on this network before and are still regular or semi-regular respected contributers here?

    Admittedly, in my case, my fallacious argument was related to an argument I wished to make about how I thought the Courtier’s Reply was contradicted by certain statements that Richard Lenski made when he was ripping Conservapedia apart (I made the argument in one of the Zombie threads by the way), but when people responded to me they did it with patience and calmness and explained to me very clearly and succinctly why I was wrong with absolutely sound logic, and then I admitted my faulty logic. Of course, I’ve seen others here who have continued to give off bad arguments and then the commenters turn hostile, but it doesn’t change the nature of the rebutting comments in response, which continue to be clear and succinct with absolutely sound logic about why the opposing argument is wrong, and then those who have made the wrong arguments hold their heads up and admit their mistakes. Why can’t these people spreading the whole “FTBullies” nonsense see that?

    On a somewhat lighter note, FTBullies and Rebecca Watson, why didn’t you put the bunny back in the box? :)

    Great to talk to you all again,

    Jon

  74. 74
    Loqi

    I see Rebecca Watson is also responsible for what went wrong with The Barrens Chat.

    And trade chat.

  75. 75
    jonmilne

    Also, as a homage to a soon to be released and sure to be awesome movie, from the first in the trilogy:

    Common Anti-FTB Troll: You’re in hell, FTBullies. And I am the devil.
    FTBullies: You’re not the devil, you’re practice.

  76. 76
    Daz, when the wind's called Mariah I know a hawk from a handsaw

    Rebecca

    Watson
    invented

    nested

    quote

    fails

  77. 77
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Rebecca Watson actually wrote Thunderfoot’s first post to discredit him. And the second post. And the third. And… ok, I don’t remember how many there were. Then she made him make that video.

  78. 78
    Tethys

    Rebecca Watson stole all of peterhearn’s context.

  79. 79
    kosk11348

    Thanks for highlighting my comment, PZ! (Although now I wish I had proof-read it better). It was a great to meet you are the Reason Rally.

  80. 80
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Rebecca Watson makes people forget that workplace harassment policies exist.

  81. 81
    Skeptic Dude

    @PZ Myers

    While I have the full ire of the tribe on me, I might as well ask you a question not

    I would like to repeat a question to you that I saw asked in another thread that you did not respond to, although one or two other (comm-enters sort of did). If you really are a hard determinism, and don’t subscribe to free will, how do you justify banning people, calling them names, describing their moral definitions at length etc.. It frankly seems flatly incompatible with determinism?

  82. 82
    Skeptic Dude

    *not directly related to RW

  83. 83
    Skeptic Dude

    *are a hard determinist*

  84. 84
    Loqi

    …such a pointless article…

    I think that says all we need to know about you.

  85. 85
    ChasCPeterson

    buhbuhWOW I just checked out the Tf00t vid.

    I love it when he strides resolutely toward the camera.

    academic integrity

    He keeps using this phrase.
    [quote Inigo Montoya here]

  86. 86
    Daz, when the wind's called Mariah I know a hawk from a handsaw

    Skeptic Dude

    If you really are a hard determinism, and don’t subscribe to free will, how do you justify banning people, calling them names, describing their moral definitions at length etc.. It frankly seems flatly incompatible with determinism?

    You’re ascribing free will to PZ, then, in this argument?

  87. 87
    Loqi

    @81
    Holy incoherent writing, Batman!

  88. 88
    Matt Penfold

    Had you not over reacted to his initial post I think he would would have moved on to disproving creationist claims and would be a valuable contributor to the site.

    Dealing with creationist nonsense is pretty easy. As recent, and not so recent, events have shown, dealing with sexism and misogyny is much harder, and there Thunderfoot was firmly in “creationist” camp.

  89. 89
    sheila

    Rebecca Watson wants to prevent the Big Bang and stop the universe from existing.

  90. 90
    Sili

    I would like to repeat a question to you that I saw asked in another thread that you did not respond to, although one or two other (comm-enters sort of did). If you really are a hard determinism, and don’t subscribe to free will, how do you justify banning people, calling them names, describing their moral definitions at length etc.. It frankly seems flatly incompatible with determinism?

    It provides stimuli to adjust the programming – of them and onlookers. How is this so hard to understand?

  91. 91
    Jasper of Maine

    If you really are a hard determinism, and don’t subscribe to free will, how do you justify banning people, calling them names, describing their moral definitions at length etc.. It frankly seems flatly incompatible with determinism?

    In what way? I remember you asking this before, and I responded. I don’t remember whether you responded back.

    Determinism has no incompatibility with the concept of correction.

  92. 92
    Loqi

    @90
    You forget that to the anti-RW crowd, everything happens in a void. There are no patterns of behavior or context.

  93. 93
    Sili

    Had you not over reacted to his initial post I think he would would have moved on to disproving creationist claims and would be a valuable contributor to the site.

    So you’re saying Thunderfoot is petty?

  94. 94
    Gnumann+,with no bloody irony at all (just an anti-essentialist feminist with a shotgun)

    If you really are a hard determinism, and don’t subscribe to free will, how do you justify

    Has this one got a name? It crops up pretty often, and I feel it’s pathetic enough to warrant it’s own name. “Argumentatum ad ¡gotcha!”?

  95. 95
    Robert M.

    @ 78

    Rebecca Watson stole all of peterhearn’s comprhension.

  96. 96
    Skeptic Dude

    I hit the submit comment button mid-edit on 81. Sorry, sure thats never happened to anyone else.

    Here is what I was going for: PZ has stated that he does not believe in free will.

    But to be consistent, doesn’t damning/banning/shaming/insulting/name calling/ostracizing/excluding/feeling-superior to racists, sexists, creationists, etc., all presuppose a break in the causal link of determinism that made said people the way they are?

  97. 97
    Sili

    John A. Davidson was Rebecca Watson all along.

  98. 98
    Loqi

    Determinism has no incompatibility with the concept of correction.

    And correction isn’t the only reason to remove someone from a community. If there are mass murderers out there, you throw them in prison. Even if their mass murdering habits are a product of genetics, environment, and experience and there’s no hope of correction and rehabilitation, we’d still lock them up in order to protect the rest of the community.

    Sorry, sociopaths. It might not be “your fault” that you are the way that you are (and I pity you for that), but we still need to remove you from the community.

  99. 99
    Sili

    Wholy Hell!

    You come back to restate the (stupid) question *after* it’s already been answered? How in the name of Spud are even able to operate a computer?

  100. 100
    Daz, when the wind's called Mariah I know a hawk from a handsaw

    Skeptic Dude #96

    Yeah, we got that. Your restatement adds nothing.

  101. 101
    Jasper of Maine

    But to be consistent, doesn’t damning/banning/shaming/insulting/name calling/ostracizing/excluding/feeling-superior to racists, sexists, creationists, etc., all presuppose a break in the causal link of determinism that made said people the way they are?

    No, why would it?

    Again, determinism has no conflict with correction. Banning people, or making fun of them, etc, may have an effect of changing their course. Or it may simply be for the betterment of this place to weed out bad people.

    How exactly is it inconsistent? This appears to be a version of an argument against determinism regarding blaming people for things that they couldn’t be responsible for without free will.

    This isn’t about blame, or even responsibility. It’s about correcting problems.

    A robot, with no free will, can correct problems too without violating its deterministic nature.

  102. 102
    cethis

    I think of it as the “I can’t help myself argument so don’t try to stop me!”

  103. 103
    The Mellow Monkey: Non-Hypothetical

    So this

    Myself, I don’t believe in free will — I think it’s an obsolete concept that confuses rather than clarifies, and would rather stay out of it.

    Means PZ’s a hard determinist? I agree with him that it’s an obsolete concept. That doesn’t mean we then go through life acting like everyone is an automaton that does not respond to stimuli.

  104. 104
    Gnumann+,with no bloody irony at all (just an anti-essentialist feminist with a shotgun)

    Yeah, we got that. Your restatement adds nothing.

    I must respectfully disagree. As Sili pointed out, it adds a whole new dimension of stupid. Quite impressive I must say.

  105. 105
    Loqi

    I hit the submit comment button mid-edit on 81. Sorry, sure thats never happened to anyone else.

    I wasn’t commenting on the quality of the editing. I was commenting on the quality of how you communicated your ideas. Certainly there must be clearer thinking behind the words than you communicated…

    But to be consistent, doesn’t damning/banning/shaming/insulting/name calling/ostracizing/excluding/feeling-superior to racists, sexists, creationists, etc., all presuppose a break in the causal link of determinism that made said people the way they are?

    Huh. I guess not.

  106. 106
    strange gods before me ॐ

    Has this one got a name? It crops up pretty often,

    Yes, it’s called fatalism.

  107. 107
    strange gods before me ॐ

    It appears to be a form of the Idle Argument for fatalism. From Wikipedia:

    The Idle Argument was described by Origen and Cicero and it went like this:

    If it is fated for you to recover from this illness, then you will recover whether you call a doctor or not.

    Likewise, if you are fated not to recover, you will not do so whether you call a doctor or not.

    But either it is fated that you will recover from this illness, or it is fated that you will not recover.

    Therefore it is futile to consult a doctor.

    Or, therefore it is futile to engage in “damning/banning/shaming/insulting/name calling/ostracizing/excluding/feeling-superior to racists, sexists, creationists, etc.”

  108. 108
    xtog42

    This is just another substance free whine post designed to increase blog hits, like DJ suggested a long time ago. It’s time those of us in the larger, world-wide free-thought movement simply ignore these sexism-obsessed self-flaming derailing trolls and concern ourselves with discrimination against atheists and religious privilege. The passive aggressiveness, and the strawman generation is so thick in this post, it really does make one sorry for PZ. He is really losing a lot of credibility when he posts sad BS like this, and he is helping no one. When and if he takes this message to the larger atheist community he will be largely ignored and rightfully so.

    Essentially he and his crowd are calling us atheists immoral sexists, which would make them right at home with the religious right — it’s a charge they have been firing at the non-religious for centuries. It isn’t true when they say it, nor is it true when the PZ crowd says it. The religious right could not have created mole more effective PZ, RW and their concern troll monkeys.

    Let’s all just stop giving this “idiot” (his word) hits for attacking fellow free-thinkers, since posts like this are clearly designed for nothing but ad revenue at the expense of the free-thought movement.

  109. 109
    Gnumann+,with no bloody irony at all (just an anti-essentialist feminist with a shotgun)

    Yes, it’s called fatalism.

    Ah, I did not make myself clear. I meant the fallacy our little doodebro made, not the precise topic of the fallacy. You know, the non-sequitur perceived dissonance (in this case banning people and determinism), therefore ¡Gotcha!.

  110. 110
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson made Skeptic Dude the thinker he is.

  111. 111
    Inaji

    I hate to say it, but the fact you did a complete 180 and flipped on him over such a pointless article shows that there is an emotional knee-jerk reaction going on in your mind that is completely blocking out any sense of rational/skeptical thought.

    Oh, you hate to say it, buuuuuuuut you’re going to anyway. *eyeroll*

    It’s ever so sweet that sexism is pointless to you, Cupcake, but some of us (those of us running about with the ladybits) have a dissenting view.

  112. 112
    Daz, when the wind's called Mariah I know a hawk from a handsaw

    xtog42

    It’s time those of us in the larger, world-wide free-thought movement simply ignore these sexism-obsessed self-flaming derailing trolls and concern ourselves with discrimination against atheists and religious privilege.

    This act of ignoring of which you speak. One assumes that part of this act of ignorance would be to, oh I dunno … actually ignore it, instead of making whining comments on it? </irony>

  113. 113
    Inaji

    Essentially he and his crowd are calling us atheists immoral sexists

    Yes, yes, we know you’re a douchebiscuit sexist idiot, you won’t stop proving that every time you post.

  114. 114
    Loqi

    Essentially he and his crowd are calling us atheists immoral sexists

    Um, no. Unless by “us” you mean you and the slimepitters, not “all atheists”. In which case, yeah.

    it’s a charge they have been firing at the non-religious for centuries.

    I don’t remember the “all atheists are sexist” charge coming from the religious right. Or anyone, really. Unless, again, you just meant you and the slimepitters, in which case I’d have to say that if it’s so obvious that even the religious right can see it, you should probably stop and rethink the way you treat women.

  115. 115
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    I don’t know whether that is true or not, but apparently it isn’t always “debilitating.”

    Citation needed, or you are a proven liar and bullshitter.

    Essentially he and his crowd are calling us atheists immoral sexists, which would make them right at home with the religious right

    Well, are you sexists by exhibiting male privilege when it shouldn’t be exhibited at all? Like in elevators at 4:00 am without witnesses?

    Let’s all just stop giving this “idiot” (his word) hits for attacking fellow free-thinkers,

    People aren’t free thinkers until they look at the shackles of privilege, and look at the evidence that women are people too, and don’t deserve to be treated like sex objects… Where is your Free-thinking with evidence based thinking? I don’t see any. I see nothing but presupposition, just like any godbot…

  116. 116
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    This is just another substance free whine post designed to increase blog hits, like DJ suggested a long time ago.

    Let’s all just stop giving this “idiot” (his word) hits for attacking fellow free-thinkers, since posts like this are clearly designed for nothing but ad revenue at the expense of the free-thought movement.

    I’m glad to see you haven’t fallen for it, genius.

  117. 117
    Skeptic Dude

    @Gnumanan

    Oh yeah motherfucker, its the “¡Gotcha!” from hell of the intractable variety. And the attempted rebuttals are pathetic. I don’t blame PZ for hiding behind his minions rather than responding to that elephant in the room.

  118. 118
    Ingdigo Jump

    Elevatorgate was by far the best thing that ever happened to RW any way you look at it. She previously couldn’t get a blog hit to save her life. Now shes been a “hot topic”, “center of controversy” who can thrive on complaining of amorphous misogony and “privelege” by spewing anecdotes. Unfortunately at some point people will become bored of her victim fetish and her credibility is going to have to stand on her actual contributions to skepticism. Thats gonna suck for her.

    Yes Skepchick was just so obscure.

  119. 119
    A. Noyd

    Skeptic Dude (#96)

    But to be consistent, doesn’t damning/banning/shaming/insulting/name calling/ostracizing/excluding/feeling-superior to racists, sexists, creationists, etc., all presuppose a break in the causal link of determinism that made said people the way they are?

    No. Who we are is not static; we’re always becoming who we are. And we are each tied into the chain of causality that shapes one another. Intent and individual action aren’t without effect. Shaming, banning, ostracizing and the like are just tools we use with the intent of changing other people. Not having free will just means that intent, individual action, and the beliefs behind them do not themselves originate free of causality.

  120. 120
    Gnumann+,with no bloody irony at all (just an anti-essentialist feminist with a shotgun)

    It’s time those of us in the larger, world-wide free-thought movement simply ignore these sexism-obsessed self-flaming derailing trolls

    You’re trying to ignore yourself?

    While I can understand the impulse (I for one would much rather ignore you, but the combination of SWOTI and low-hanging snark-targets is just so darn irresistible), it’s not really recommended. It’s especially recommended that you listen to yourself when you body tells you it’s hungry, thirsty and/or needs to excrete waste (the last one is the concrete variant, not the waste that goes through your fingers and down on the keyboard, you can safely (preferably even) ignore that one).

    Also, and I know this is distasteful and you rather not want to, you should read the tripe you are writing more carefully, make an effort to understand why it is bad, and why you feel the need to write it. I won’t pack it in for you, this will be excruciatingly painful, but it might help you better your ways and become a decent human.

  121. 121
    Ingdigo Jump

    Amazing. DJ actually does attack his fellow skeptics and all you peons go about how mean the people he attacked are for damaging the cause.

  122. 122
    Gnumann+,with no bloody irony at all (just an anti-essentialist feminist with a shotgun)

    Oh yeah motherfucker, its the “¡Gotcha!” from hell of the intractable variety. And the attempted rebuttals are pathetic. I don’t blame PZ for hiding behind his minions rather than responding to that elephant in the room.

    It’s a meta-discussion about you. Your participation is neither needed nor welcome. If I wanted to address you I would, but you are not worthy of my time.

  123. 123
    Tethys

    The religious right could not have created mole more effective PZ, RW

    Your blather is unclear. Please choose from the following options:

    A.The religious prefer bland food?

    B.The religious are breeding ROUS?

    C.The religious are engaging in espionage?

    D. You are an idiot. Please to be fucking off now.

  124. 124
    Skeptic Dude

    My entire point in bringing up free will, is that consistency isn’t PZ’s strongest quality. See e.g. banning thunderf00t.

  125. 125
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Mea culpa, my first blockquote in #115 was for another thread. Sorry about the dissonance.

  126. 126
    The Mellow Monkey: Non-Hypothetical

    The religious right could not have created mole more effective PZ, RW

    I think you accidentally the whole thing.

  127. 127
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    See e.g. banning thunderf00t.

    The firing (not banning) was consistent. The hiring wasn’t…

  128. 128
    Jasper of Maine

    Oh yeah motherfucker, its the “¡Gotcha!” from hell of the intractable variety. And the attempted rebuttals are pathetic. I don’t blame PZ for hiding behind his minions rather than responding to that elephant in the room.

    I still have no idea what the conflict is between determinism and banning people. But, go ahead, assert it some more.

  129. 129
    Muz

    Skeptic Dude debates determinism like a christian.

  130. 130
    Daz, when the wind's called Mariah I know a hawk from a handsaw

    See e.g. banning thunderf00t.

    What part of “Thunderfoot has not been banned” do you find hard to understand?

    (And wtf is it with TF fanbois that they insist on that double-zero? Do they also use a huge-font lower-case ‘m’ when spelling McDonalds?)

  131. 131
    Gnumann+,with no bloody irony at all (just an anti-essentialist feminist with a shotgun)

    My entire point in bringing up free will, is that consistency isn’t PZ’s strongest quality. See e.g. banning thunderf00t.

    Oh! That’s almost too cute! Does the little pitling really think the problem was that it’s motives wasn’t painfully obvious? Or is this a subtle piece to trolling? Pretending that the audience doesn’t understand the painfully obvious (that is a know troll technique – n’est pas?)?

  132. 132
    A. Noyd

    Skeptic Dude (#124)

    My entire point in bringing up free will, is that consistency isn’t PZ’s strongest quality. See e.g. banning thunderf00t.

    That “inconsistency” is something you invented because you’re too aggressively stuck on misunderstanding the arguments against free will. Humans are not prevented from being intentional agents of one another’s change in a deterministic universe. Thus, to intentionally act as an agent of another’s change doesn’t make a determinist inconsistent. (Also, thunderf00t wasn’t banned.)

    (#117)

    I don’t blame PZ for hiding behind his minions rather than responding to that elephant in the room.

    That elephant? It’s the pink elephant only the drunk can see because he’s not in his right mind.

  133. 133
    Daz, when the wind's called Mariah I know a hawk from a handsaw

    [Clarification] Obviously my aside @130 wasn’t aimed at Skeptic Dude—just summat I’ve noticed a lot.

  134. 134
    M31

    Rebecca Watson invented the <blink> tag.

  135. 135
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    For the fuckwits who claim TF was banned, exhibit A, this little thing called evidence. Now, shut the fuck up…

  136. 136
    Sili

    My entire point in bringing up free will, is that consistency isn’t PZ’s strongest quality. See e.g. banning thunderf00t.

    Well, at least Thunderfoot is consistent. I’ll give him that. He only ever talked about one thing and one thing only.

    –o–

    Skeptic Dude debates determinism like a christian.

    He can’t help it.

  137. 137
    Sili

    Rebecca *has* really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like

  138. 138
    chigau (違う)

    xtog42 is Rebecca Watson.
    or
    Rebecca Watson is xtog42.

  139. 139
    Momo Elektra

    @Muz

    Skeptic Dude debates determinism like a christian.

    Yeah, this punishment=retribution thing is a dead giveaway.

  140. 140
    Loqi

    You said:

    Oh yeah motherfucker, its the “¡Gotcha!” from hell of the intractable variety. And the attempted rebuttals are pathetic. I don’t blame PZ for hiding behind his minions rather than responding to that elephant in the room.

    I interpreted:
    I’m going to ignore what’s carefully been explained to me and continue on as if I’m not a fuckwit.

  141. 141
    Ingdigo Jump

    My entire point in bringing up free will, is that consistency isn’t PZ’s strongest quality. See e.g. banning thunderf00t.

    The situation compelled him to act in the way he did. It is not inconsistent.

  142. 142
    Inaji

    Daz:

    What part of “Thunderfoot has not been banned” do you find hard to understand?

    All of it, I suspect. Further evidence that being a yootuber causes compleat brain rot.

    I’m waiting for this idiocy to hit meatspace employment: “OMG, you guyz, I was banned from work!!!1!1 My boss is evil, banning me, I’ll never be able to work again!!!1

  143. 143
    Owlmirror

    But to be consistent, doesn’t damning/banning/shaming/insulting/name calling/ostracizing/excluding/feeling-superior to racists, sexists, creationists, etc., all presuppose a break in the causal link of determinism that made said people the way they are?

    No. You’re not just positing determinism; you’re positing that people are incapable of changing or learning. At all. Ever. In response to any stimulus whatsoever.

    You may run on unchanging pre-programmed clockwork, but not everyone is as incapable of learning as you are.

    /Anti-fatalism.

  144. 144
    Fred Salvador, Onion Jumbler

    Who controls the British pound?
    Who keeps the metric system down?…

    It’s time those of us in the larger, world-wide free-thought movement simply ignore these sexism-obsessed self-flaming derailing trolls

    I’m sure we’d all love to do that, but ManRightsMans and their whiny, sexism-obsessed, self-indulgent derailments are a serious threat to community cohesion, so they need to be handled whenever they rear their balding heads.

  145. 145
    Inaji

    fredsalvador:

    ManRightsMans

    Psssst, around here, the MRAs are referred to as menz.

  146. 146
    Gregory Greenwood

    I experienced some tepidation before clicking on this thread, wondering how many posts there would be before the MRAs and Thunderf00t’s champions of True Freethought(TM) turned up. I hoped that we might get in a few comments before the inevitable attempts at derailing began…

    Then I read the very first comment, and it was the concentrated essence of all the MRA whining we get from the trolls that always infest these threads.

    And it seems that the unfortunately named Skeptic Dude* has continued in much the same vein throughout the thread.

    Oh yeah motherfucker, its the “¡Gotcha!” from hell of the intractable variety. And the attempted rebuttals are pathetic. I don’t blame PZ for hiding behind his minions rather than responding to that elephant in the room.

    So, Skeptic Dude is another one that wants to get banned as some kind of perverse badger of honour, I take it?

    ——————————————–

    * It really is remarkable – almost anyone who includes sceptical, reasonable, rational/rationalist or atheist in their nym turns out to be the worst kind of offensively misogynist, transphobic, racist or homophobic troll imaginable (and sometimes manage to fulfill several of these categories at the same time). A new internet law is needed I think…

  147. 147
    Gregory Greenwood

    ‘Badger of honour’? That should be ‘badge of honour’, in my last post.

  148. 148
    Forbidden Snowflake

    Oh yeah motherfucker, its the “¡Gotcha!” from hell of the intractable variety. And the attempted rebuttals are pathetic. I don’t blame PZ for hiding behind his minions rather than responding to that elephant in the room.

    Asserting that “rebuttals are pathetic” instead of dealing with the arguments is what makes Skepticalism2012(tm) 50% easier to operate than previous versions. No more grueling examination of claims! Being a skeptic is now easier than ever!

  149. 149
    Tethys

    I thought the perverse badger of honor was somehow related to xtogs religious right mole.

  150. 150
    Loqi

    Being a skeptic is now easier than ever!

    Being a dude, however, is just as easy as it’s always been.

  151. 151
    Forbidden Snowflake

    * It really is remarkable – almost anyone who includes sceptical, reasonable, rational/rationalist or atheist in their nym turns out to be the worst kind of

    counterexample: skeptifem

    (yes, I realize that you said “almost”)

  152. 152
    Ermine

    Badgers?

    We doan need no steenkeeng BADGERS!

  153. 153
    Sili

    It’s time those of us in the larger, world-wide free-thought movement simply ignore these sexism-obsessed self-flaming derailing trolls and concern ourselves with discrimination against atheists and religious privilege.

    And yet here you are.

    Why aren’t you at TAM with the real™ skeptics?

    Why aren’t you out there suing faith schools in the UK?

    Why are you here on an unimportant blog on the Internet whining about how we’re doing in wrong™.

    Why are you *here* while saying we should be ignored? Have you tried looking up that word in a dictionary?

  154. 154
    Inaji

    It’s time those of us in the larger, world-wide free-thought movement

    Yes, c’mon lads, if we pull together and exclude the wimmin and their silly insistence on pointing out sexism, we’ll be grand! Yeah!

    “I’m sure we can pull together, sir.”

    Lord Vetinari raised his eyebrows. “Oh, I do hope not, I really do hope not. Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny. Free men pull in all kinds of directions.” He smiled. “It’s the only way to make progress. That, and, of course, moving with the times. Good day to you.”

  155. 155
    carlie

    Who controls the British pound?
    Who keeps the metric system down?…

    We doooooo, we dooooooooo…

    ‘Badger of honour’?

    Oh, come now. First porcupines, now badgers, what next, nutrias?

  156. 156
    NelC

    Rebecca Watson gave me pneumonia! At last, I can stop taking these gut-destroying anti-biotics and post them to her instead!

  157. 157
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    “Free will” is totally Rebecca Watson’s fault.

  158. 158
    coleslaw

    ‘Badger of honour’? That should be ‘badge of honour’, in my last post.

    Well, it’s a little too late now. The ‘badger of honour’ is in my kitchen eating the cat food. I supose you’re going to say it’s all Rebecca Watson’s fault.

  159. 159
    HappiestSadist, Repellent Little Martyr

    I would also add to the OP:

    Greta Christina, Jason, many others: Also, it seems that the message board for the group hosting the convention has a serial arsonist, who openly bragged about and showed pictures of fires he started. And was seen at multiple TAMs with accelerant and a lighter.

    MRAs: Hey, he might have had perfectly reasonable uses for having that gear! Don’t judge him based on his own admitted actions and predict future behaviour based on prior evidence!

  160. 160
    A. Noyd

    Gregory Greenwood (#147)

    ‘Badger of honour’? That should be ‘badge of honour’, in my last post.

    Well, badgers of honor would go perfectly with the porcupine crowns of persecution.

  161. 161
    Inaji

    Gregory:

    ‘Badger of honour’? That should be ‘badge of honour’, in my last post.

    Oh…I like Badger of honour.

  162. 162
    PZ Myers

    Hey, xtog42, how about if you toddle off to find some blog that doesn’t give a damn about women and wallow about there, and let FtB decline into irrelevancy in the absence of your ever-so-important traffic?

  163. 163
    HappiestSadist, Repellent Little Martyr

    Also, Rebecca Waston is why the gin keeps disappearing here, is the mastermind of the phasing out of my favourite underwear style at the stores that carried it, and is the one who taught my cat to poke me in the face when I’m trying to sleep.

  164. 164
    carlie

    Dangit, a nattering nutria of negativism just scampered by.

  165. 165
    carlie

    “Watson” has the same first three letters as “Watergate”… just sayin’.

  166. 166
    Amblebury

    Rebecca Watson invented Crocs.

    R E B E C C A W A T S O N

    SATAN

  167. 167
    Inaji

    Carlie:

    Dangit, a nattering nutria of negativism just scampered by.

    :snortle: +8

  168. 168
    anat

    Skeptic Dude (#81):

    If you really are a hard determinism, and don’t subscribe to free will, how do you justify banning people, calling them names, describing their moral definitions at length etc.. It frankly seems flatly incompatible with determinism?

    Hard determinism doesn’t mean people do not make choices, nor does it mean that they do not respond to environmental inputs when they do so, it only means their choices aren’t made ‘freely’ (whatever that means). If negative response to bad behavior increases the chance an offender (or even a bystander who is observing the interaction) to behave better in the future then it is a good idea to use such negative responses to bad behavior.

    If an algorithm gives undesirable output it should be reprogrammed so it gives more desirable output. Modify analogy as much as needed to suit the circumstances.

  169. 169
    'Tis Himself

    fredsalvator #144

    Who controls the British pound?

    If you want just one name, it’s Sir Mervyn King, Governor of the Bank of England and Chairman of the Monetary Policy Committee.

  170. 170
    Gregory Greenwood

    I thought the perverse badger of honor was somehow related to xtogs religious right mole.

    Well, they have been spending an awful lot of time together lately…

    counterexample: skeptifem

    (yes, I realize that you said “almost”)

    Apologies to Skeptifem. Still, I think that there is a notably high incidence of prat-ery among people who include such words in their nym, exceptions like Skeptifem acknowledged.

    Badgers?

    We doan need no steenkeeng BADGERS!

    Thems be fightin’ words…

    Oh, come now. First porcupines, now badgers, what next, nutrias?

    Its a cute, furry invasion!

    Well, it’s a little too late now. The ‘badger of honour’ is in my kitchen eating the cat food. I supose you’re going to say it’s all Rebecca Watson’s fault.

    Naturally. That; global warming, habitat degradation, ground water pollution, and her most serious crime – hurting teh man fee-fees (IMPORTANT)!

    … Oh, and the fact that apparently post elevatorgate no one can have sex anymore (truefax), so you know – the eventual collpase of all civilisation into a post-apcalyptic nightmare-scape.

    Well, badgers of honor would go perfectly with the porcupine crowns of persecution.

    In matters of fashion, it is always important to coordinate. Just because one is an offensively misogynist troll, that doesn’t mean that one cannot be a well dressed offensively misogynist troll…

    Oh…I like Badger of honour.

    Then, by jove, a perverse Badger of honour you shall have!

    ;-P

  171. 171
    carlie

    ‘Tis – see here

  172. 172
    anat

    Caerie (#103)

    That doesn’t mean we then go through life acting like everyone is an automaton that does not respond to stimuli.

    Nah, we are automata that respond to stimuli.

  173. 173
    strange gods before me ॐ

    My entire point in bringing up free will, is

    not very clear to you, is it. You don’t even understand the counterarguments, do you.

    Here, why don’t you try pointing to an argument that makes your case about the implications of the lack of free will. At #106 I gave a clear essay from Thomas W. Clark. You can either deal with it or point to something else. Take your pick.

  174. 174
    rorschach

    Just perfect. Haven’t laughed so hard in weeks.

    And it is just amazing how the mere mention of Rebecca acts like some irresistable Batsignal to slimepitters and MRAs worldwide. What would they ever do without her? Knocking over old ladies in the street, presumably.

  175. 175
    The twelfth vote

    Hey, xtog42, how about if you toddle off to find some blog that doesn’t give a damn about women and wallow about there, and let FtB decline into irrelevancy in the absence of your ever-so-important traffic?

    Would that be the blogging version of Going Galt?

  176. 176
    TheBlackCat

    Oh, come now. First porcupines, now badgers, what next, nutrias?

    No, pangolins of course.

  177. 177
    Alethea Kuiper-Belt

    Ermine Johnson is right! We don’t need no steenkin’ badgers! Clean that badger up right now. It’s not at all nice leaving the poor thing in such a state.

    Rebecca Watson made me say that. Also, she was the one who spilled MRAcrap on the badger, AND she made my cat barf on the hall carpet in the middle of the night.

  178. 178
    strange gods before me ॐ

    awww nutria / coypu are cute

  179. 179
    HappiestSadist, Repellent Little Martyr

    Awwww! They are, ixchel! Look a lot like beavers, which I also think are pretty nifty.

  180. 180
    Gnumann+,with no bloody irony at all (just an anti-essentialist feminist with a shotgun)

    What would they ever do without her? Knocking over old ladies in the street, presumably.

    In other words: Rebecca Watson is to blame for the spiralling costs of pensions and care for the elderly.

  181. 181
    Robert M.

    I always the the lyric was “Who controls the British Crown?” Damn you Rebecca Watson!

  182. 182
    Inaji

    Gregory:

    Then, by jove, a perverse Badger of honour you shall have!

    Ooooh, sniny and furry! Oh and with a full complement of fangs…Mine is a Honey Badger.

  183. 183
    strange gods before me ॐ

    a coypu of courage to go with your badger of honour

  184. 184
    Pteryxx

    Rebecca Watson stopped God from making it rain in Texas. *nodnod*

  185. 185
    tamaraday

    RW made the MRA’s troll this thread!!!1!

  186. 186
    Inaji

    Ixchel:

    a coypu of courage to go with your badger of honour

    :D

  187. 187
    Akira MacKenzie

    Ayn Rand’s real name: Rebecca Watson!

  188. 188
    HappiestSadist, Repellent Little Martyr

    Rebecca Watson told me I’d lose weight if I ate nothing but Kalteen bars.

    Rebecca Watson’s hair is so big colourful because it’s full of secrets.

    Rebecca Watson? If only you knew how mean she really is… You’d know that I’m not allowed to wear hoop earrings, right? Yeah! Two years ago she told me hoops earrings were *her* thing and I wasn’t allowed to wear them anymore. And then for Hannakuh my parents got this pair of really expensive white gold hoops and I had to pretend like I didn’t even like them and… it was so sad. And you know she cheats on Aaron? Yes, every Thursday he thinks she’s doing SAT prep but really she’s hooking up with Shane Oman in the projection room above the auditorium! I never told anybody that because I am *such* a good friend!

    Rebecca Watson told me to stop trying to make “fetch” happen.

    Rebecca Watson… How do I begin to explain Rebecca Watson?
    Rebecca Watson is flawless.
    I hear her hair’s insured for $10,000.
    I hear she does car commercials… in Japan.
    Her favorite movie is Varsity Blues. One time she met John Stamos on a plane…
    And he told her she was pretty.
    One time she punched me in the face… it was awesome.

  189. 189
    bertrandrussell

    The analogy strikes me as a false equivalence:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence

    I agree that the codes of conduct and expected behaviors are a good thing, and that those people that argued against them were not thinking properly. But that doesn’t make the analogy true.

  190. 190
    HappiestSadist, Repellent Little Martyr

    You know, bertrand, linking to wikipedia doesn’t actually explain *why* it’s a false equivalence. You’re just kind of brining up wikipedia as like the saddest ever argument from authority ever.

    And you’re getting called on it by someone who’s drunk to the point of mostly only talking in Mean girls quotes. Look at your life, and your choices, bertrandrussell.

  191. 191
    Gregory Greenwood

    Did you know that Rebecca Watson forced Brain Herbert to attempt to continue the Dune saga?

    Oh, and she personally wrote all those “deus ex machina” cop-outs at the end of Sandworms of Dune

  192. 192
    John Morales

    [meta]

    It was a metaphor, so of course they’re not the same thing.

  193. 193
    carlie

    She was also responsible for Tremors 3.
    And for making Greebo shoot first.

  194. 194
    screechymonkey

    Rebecca let the dogs out.

    AND then she wrote that awful song about it.

    Saying that you have to believe in free will to render moral judgments is like saying that you have to be a dualist to use words like “think” and “believe” — like, OMG, if you don’t believe in a disembodied mind-spirit, then what does the thinking?

  195. 195
    'Tis Himself

    carlie #171

    Nope, the song’s wrong. Sorry about that. :-þ

  196. 196
    jackrawlinson

    Well, it’s pretty clear that you people don’t need a fire safety plan. Because you just love torching all those bridges, don’t you? You seem to positively revel in it.

  197. 197
    'Tis Himself

    Rebecca Watson set us up the bomb. All our bases belong to her.

  198. 198
    'Tis Himself

    jackrawlinson,

    Do you have a point or are you just showing you’re an asshole?

  199. 199
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Rebecca Watson caused my burrito to explode in the microwave. :(

  200. 200
    HappiestSadist, Repellent Little Martyr

    Jackrawlinson: So, do we have confirmation that you are, in fact, Elevator Guy?

  201. 201
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    I blame all of jackrawlinson’s idiot posts on Rebecca Watson.

  202. 202
    Daz, when the wind's called Mariah I know a hawk from a handsaw

    jackrawlinson,

    Do you have a point or are you just showing you’re an asshole?

    Pinky: what shall we do tomorrow night, jackrawlinson?
    jackrawlinson: Same thing we do every night, Pinky. Show the world we’re arseholes.

  203. 203
    HappiestSadist, Repellent Little Martyr

    That is a tragedy that should not happen to any burrito, Audley. All burritos deserve loving homes in happy tummies. Especially mine.

  204. 204
    Jasper of Maine

    Well, it’s pretty clear that you people don’t need a fire safety plan. Because you just love torching all those bridges, don’t you? You seem to positively revel in it.

    Alright, this analogy is breaking down. It wouldn’t make sense unless we, those who are in favor of sexual harassment policies, were going around sexually harassing people en masse.

  205. 205
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Happiestsadist:

    All burritos deserve loving homes in happy tummies.

    Oh, I’m still eating it. It is freaking delicious.

    You can blame Rebecca Watson for that, too.

  206. 206
    HappiestSadist, Repellent Little Martyr

    She is also responsible for my having two different, yet equally delicious gins in the cupboard. She magicked them there as a reward for her FemiStasi minions.

    Now I want a burrito.

  207. 207
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Rebecca Watson mixed the lime with the coconut and drank it all up.

  208. 208
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Rebecca Watson is calling from inside the house!

  209. 209
    Utakata

    @Happiestsadist, 190:

    The real Bertrand Russell never used Wikipedia in his quotes.

  210. 210
    Utakata

    *sprays jackrawlinson*

    Begone you troll!

  211. 211
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Rebecca Watson has been been alive forever,
    And she wrote the very first song.
    She put the words and the melodies together,
    She is music,
    And she write the songs.

    She write the songs that make the whole world sing.
    She write the songs of love and special things.
    She write the songs that make the MRA’s cry.
    She write the songs, She write the songs.

  212. 212
    Utakata

    Rebecca Watson is in my fridge eating my ice cream.

  213. 213
    chigau (違う)

    Janine
    Aarrrgh!
    (thank you for not linking)

  214. 214
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    chigau,

    *raspberry*

  215. 215
    Tethys

    hey jack,

    We didn’t start the fire.
    No, we didn’t light it, but we tried to fight it.

  216. 216
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson wrote the opinion in Citizens United.

    Rebecca Watson caused the obesity epidemic.

    Rebecca Watson turns traffic lights red every time I’m running late for work.

  217. 217
    ericpaulsen

    #197 WHAT YOU SAY?!!!!!!!

  218. 218
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Tethys, that is because Rebecca Watson started the fire.

    [Meh! I detest that song. It is a humorless rewrite of It's The End Of The World As We Know It(And I Feel Fine)]

  219. 219
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson is really jackrawlinson.

  220. 220
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    The senior council of Wolfram & Hart fears Rebecca Watson.

  221. 221
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Rebecca Watson is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma.

  222. 222
    chigau (違う)

    If Rebecca Watson is really jackrawlinson, she was alone in the elevator.
    *scary organ music*

  223. 223
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Here’s a little news for you all
    The Walrus was Rebecca Watson

  224. 224
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Did Rebecca Watson invent the Southern Strategy for the GOP?

  225. 225
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Rebecca Watson also ran Strom Thurmond’s Dixiecrat campaign for President that Trent Lott so admired.

  226. 226
    Tethys

    Janine

    I suspected Rebecca of torching the bridge to jack rawlinson, and she went back in time to ghostwrite songs for Billy Joel and Barry Manilow.

    Hopefully jack is under the bridge when it collapses, like a proper troll.
    ___

    I didn’t know Steve Martin wrote an atheist hymn

  227. 227
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Rebecca Watson said, “Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius.”

  228. 228
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Rebecca Watson rode a tank
    Held a General’s rank
    When the Blitzkrieg raged
    And the bodies stank

  229. 229
    Fred Salvador, Onion Jumbler

    We doooooo, we dooooooooo…

    If you want just one name, it’s Sir Mervyn King, Governor of the Bank of England and Chairman of the Monetary Policy Committee.

    You’re both wrong – it’s REBECCA WATSON!

    She keeps Atlantis off the maps and the martians under wraps too. And she had me murdered when I revealed lodge secrets during a police interview.

  230. 230
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Rebecca Watson managed the Bay City Rollers.

  231. 231
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    It was Rebecca Watson who came, saw and conquered.

  232. 232
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Strangely enough, Julius Caesar’s last words were, “Et tu, Rebecca?”.

  233. 233
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    It was Rebecca Watson who taught Attila how to wage war.

  234. 234
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    I am he as you are he as you are me
    And we are all Rebecca Watson

  235. 235
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Rebecca Watson is the monster in my pants.

  236. 236
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Rebecca Watson invented Boy Bands.

  237. 237
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Rebecca Watson domesticated peas. And horses.

  238. 238
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Rebecca Watson, you maniac! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you to hell!

  239. 239
    Pteryxx

    Rebecca Watson domesticated peas. And horses.

    And cats. All kittens everywhere are Rebecca Watson’s fault.

  240. 240
    The Mellow Monkey: Non-Hypothetical

    Rebecca Watson has been around for a long, long year–stole many a man’s soul and faith.

  241. 241
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Rebecca Watson and her feminist hair caused Mormons to dress like this!

  242. 242
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Rebecca Watson weighs the same as a duck.

  243. 243
    A. R

    Rebecca Watson stole the Mona Lisa.

  244. 244
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    With a purposeful grimace and a terrible sound
    She pulls the spitting high tension wires down

    Helpless people on a subway train
    Scream for God as she looks in on them

    She picks up a bus and he throws it back down
    As she wades through the buildings toward the center of town

    Oh no, they say, she’s got to go
    Go go Rebecca Watson, yeah
    Oh no, there goes Tokyo
    Go go Rebecca Watson, yeah

  245. 245
    A. R

    Rebecca Watson went back in time and invented the Patriarchy so she could suppress and demean teh menzz!!!

  246. 246
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Rebecca Watson cyt off Vincent Van Gogh’s ear.

    She also instructed Mr Blonde about what to do with the cop.

  247. 247
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Rebecca Watson created The Typo Monster out of spare syllables.

  248. 248
    Akira MacKenzie

    Rebecca Watson put the tribbles in the quadrotriticale!

  249. 249
    A. R

    Rebecca Watson put the tribbles in the quadrotriticale!

    This also means that Rebecca Watson tried to kill Captain Kirk (according to DS9)!

  250. 250
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    It was Rebecca Watson who taught the Catholic Church how to make castrati.

  251. 251
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson wrote 50 Shades of Gray.

    (Also, Janine, I am definitely saving that for torturing the DaughterSpawn when she gets back from Boy Scout camp. It will make a nice follow up to torturing her with this work of art, which is how I woke her up at Women in Secularism.)

    Rebecca Watson made me a bad mother.

  252. 252
    Pteryxx

    Rebecca Watson created The Typo Monster out of spare syllables.

    …No… it cannot be! Rebecca Watson IS THE MIGHTY TPYOS! *genuflects and offers all mispelinggs*

  253. 253
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    It was Rebecca Watson who taught Khan how to play chess.

  254. 254
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson put the bomp in the bomp-bomp-.bomp-ba-bomp.

    Rebecca Watson is the house mother of the C Street group,

  255. 255
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Mattir, you are an evil mother!

    I approve.

  256. 256
    Arkady

    Rebecca Watson infects tissue-culture cells with mycoplasma. That’s right, she makes CANCER ill!

    Rebecca Watson is why PCRs fail

    Rebecca Watson is why my faculty currently doesn’t have a working vending machine

    (loving all the geek references! sadly could only think of science ones, labwork-on-the-brain…)

  257. 257
    AJ Milne

    Rebecca Watson beat me up, stole my lunch money, stepped on my glasses, ran my pants up the flagpole, tied the laces of my tennis shoes together, then threw them over a telephone wire, way up there… way too high for me to reach.

    Then she rode my brand new two-wheeler into the lake.

  258. 258
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Also, Mattir, if you want more tacky songs from the seventies, I will be happy to suggest more.

    *evil grin*

  259. 259
    Akira MacKenzie

    Rebecca Watson’s name is a killing word.

  260. 260
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson caused the Permian Extinction Event.

  261. 261
    A. R

    Rebecca Watson invented all computer viruses.

  262. 262
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson is an other one of Jon Kyle’s #notinendedasafactualstatement -s.

  263. 263
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson moved my cheese.

  264. 264
  265. 265
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Rebecca Watson cut my cheese.

    (Sorry.)

  266. 266
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    She also instructed Mr Blonde about what to do with the cop.

    Rebecca Watson shot Mr Pink.

  267. 267
    A. R

    Rebecca Watson killed the Dinosaurs (Yep, she’s an asteroid too. Must be some sort of shapeshifter)

  268. 268
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson is a mole from Fox News, sent to destroy atheism from within,

  269. 269
    Akira MacKenzie

    Rebecca Watson started a joke that left the whole world crying.

  270. 270
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson is five of the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People.

  271. 271
    A. R

    Rebecca Watson is that fucking bacterial protein that keeps fucking up my Westerns!!!!!!!!

  272. 272
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Rebecca Watson is the truth about De-evolution.

  273. 273
    A. R

    Rebecca Watson is a mole from Fox News, sent to destroy atheism from within

    You realize this is going to show up as a legitimate discussion on the slimepit, tight?

    Anyway, Rebecca Watson ate my sammich.

  274. 274
    Akira MacKenzie

    (Here’s an obscure one.)

    Rebecca Watson is the Goddess of the Pale Bone.

  275. 275
    A. R

    My 273: tight = right. Hail Rebecca Watson!

  276. 276
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Rebecca Watson is the New York Mining Disaster 1941.

  277. 277
    feralboy12

    Rebecca Watson left the cake out in the rain.
    I don’t know if I can take it,
    It took so long to bake it.
    And I’ll never have that recipe again.
    OH NOOOOOOO
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    @Janine:

    She called me up late that night
    She said “Joe, don’t come over.”
    So I hopped in my car and went right over…

    When I read your link text, my first thought was that you were linking to “I’m Not Lisa.”

  278. 278
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Rebecca Watson: Jeffrey, this is Rebecca Watson. I need to see you. I’m the one who took your rug.

  279. 279
    varys

    I really used to enjoy reading atheist blogs / watching stuff on youtube, but this whole “thing” that’s been going on for the last year or so is really incredibly off putting. I understand that some of you think it’s really important, but it’s a lot like a really self-conscious person constantly reminding you of their inadequacies.

  280. 280
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    That better be Richard Harris, feralboy12!

  281. 281
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    Rebecca Watson is responsible for telomere shortening. That’s right, because of her you gotta die!

  282. 282
    myeck waters

    Janine:

    I am he as you are he as you are me
    And we are all Rebecca Watson

    I know you know what you know
    But you should know by now that you’re not Rebecca Watson

  283. 283
    Akira MacKenzie

    varys @ 279

    Your troll is noted and logged. Now get the fuck out.

  284. 284
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Rebecca Watson made Major Tom a junkie.

  285. 285
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    On that note:
    Rebecca Watson peed on my rug!

  286. 286
    Akira MacKenzie

    Rebecca Watson is Hank and Dean Venture’s real mom!

  287. 287
    chigau (違う)

    Rebecca Watson thinks that varys #279 is a whiny, sucky baby.

  288. 288
    Cipher

    Oh gee, I sure hope we don’t drive varys off with this whole “women” “thing.”
    How will we ever live without hir support?

  289. 289
    varys

    @283, 287,

    See, it’s shit like this. You guys are awful to be around.

  290. 290
    feralboy12

    I really used to enjoy reading atheist blogs / watching stuff on youtube, but this whole “thing” that’s been going on for the last year or so is really incredibly off putting.

    If indeed the case is that, up with this you shouldn’t for another minute put.

    That better be Richard Harris, feralboy12!

    There may be other versions; I, however, will never acknowledge another.
    There can be only one.

  291. 291
    Cipher

    You guys are awful to be around.

    See what you did now? You have hurt varys’s delicate fee-fees! Don’t you just feel terrible!

  292. 292
    Akira MacKenzie

    Here’s a thought varys, if you don’t come on here to complain “I used to like it here until you started talking about the yucky girl stuff,” we won’t point out that your being a passive-aggressive, tone-trolling, piece of shit.

    OK?

  293. 293
    varys

    @292,

    How about you just accept it as an honest opinion from someone who actually used to like reading these blogs, instead of flipping out and being an absolute dick about it.

    No? Too difficult for you?

  294. 294
    Akira MacKenzie

    Forgive the spelling errors in the last post. Grand mal stupidity, such as varys’, makes one forget to proofread.

  295. 295
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson is the reason several of my posts here were first made on Lousy Canuck, by people other than me. Rebecca Watson steals my thoughts.

    Rebecca Watson broke varys’s Internet so that it consists solely of Pharyngula. Xe literally cannot get to any other website.

  296. 296
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Rebecca Watson is Your Mother and she is holding Moltar hostage.

  297. 297
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson makes varys’s use gendered, misandrist insults

  298. 298
    Cipher

    When no one was looking, Rebecca Watson took forty cakes. She took 40 cakes.
    That’s as many as four tens.
    And that’s terrible.

  299. 299
    Cipher

    How about you just accept it as an honest opinion from someone who actually used to like reading these blogs, instead of flipping out and being an absolute dick about it.

    The fact that it’s an honest opinion doesn’t make it any less passive-aggressive bullshit.

  300. 300
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    If you an actual regular reader, varys, you would know what most of us think of the use of dick as an insult.

    Go to sleep in a bed of dead porcupines.

  301. 301
    varys

    @300,

    I’m sorry I didn’t refer to the special list of Janine sanction insults, I’ll make a note.

  302. 302
    Akira MacKenzie

    You come in here to flounce and tone troll and you expect us to respect your opinion, much less consider it “honest?”

    Fuck off.

  303. 303
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson put Zul in my fridge.

    Rebecca Watson is the reason Charlotte’s Web did not win a Newbery Medal.

    She is also the reason Jorge Luis Borges did not win a Nobel Prize for literature,

  304. 304
    Cipher


    I’m sorry I didn’t refer to the special list of Janine sanction insults, I’ll make a note.

    Liar, liar, goats on fire

  305. 305
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson killed Dian Fossey.

  306. 306
    Cipher

    Ooh! Rebecca Watson is why Buffy never won an Emmy, not even for “The Body.”

    But it’s worse than that – Rebecca Watson convinced Joss Whedon to make “The Body” in the first place.
    That’s right, y’all. Rebecca Watson killed Joyce.

  307. 307
    Jessa

    varys:

    I really used to enjoy reading atheist blogs / watching stuff on youtube, but this whole “thing” that’s been going on for the last year or so is really incredibly off putting.

    If by “thing” you mean “the horribly depressing realization that a non-trivial number of skeptics are willing to defend sexist attitudes and behaviors”, then yes, I agree that it is incredibly off-putting.

    But I’m pretty sure that’s not what you meant.

  308. 308
    carlie

    Rebecca Watson peed on my rug!

    Oh yeah? Rebecca Watson stole my rug.

    And it’s a shame. That rug really tied the room together.

  309. 309
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    I’m sorry I didn’t refer to the special list of Janine sanction insults, I’ll make a note.

    And I will repeat myself, fuckface, if you were a regular reader, you would know this is not my fucking sanctioned list.

    You are not honest.

  310. 310
    carlie

    Rebecca Watson won’t pay the paperboy his two dollars.

  311. 311
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson invented tentacle porn.

  312. 312
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Rebecca is you judge and jury, and she lives inside your head.

  313. 313
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson write chick tracts and persuades her minions to leave them in lieu of tips at diners.

  314. 314
    Cipher

    Rebecca Watson shot a whole bunch of adventurers in the knee, destroying their dreams. Many of them now have prestigious careers as town guards, but they have never fully gotten over the bitterness and disappointment Rebecca Watson caused them.

  315. 315
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Rebecca Watson shot the sheriff but she did not shoot no deputy.

  316. 316
  317. 317
    mythbri

    Rebecca Watson is Luke’s father.

    Rebecca Watson is Keyser Soze.

    Rebecca Watson made Soylent Green out of people.

    Rebecca Watson was a ghost the whole time!

    Rebecca Watson is a Bloodbender.

  318. 318
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    Rebecca Watson broke my homemade jam by the civic hall.

  319. 319
    mythbri

    Rebecca Watson let the dogs out.

  320. 320
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Rebecca Watson treated me like a rubber ball.

  321. 321
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Rebecca Watson is your Mother and she just won’t leave you alone.

  322. 322
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson was the poorhouse mother in Poor Little Orphan Joe.

    (bluegrass plumpitiful warning)

  323. 323
    chigau (違う)

    Seriously, varys.
    You post an insulting comment and expect to be treated politely?

  324. 324
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson broke Dale Earnhardt’s neck and made it look like a racing accident.

  325. 325
    mythbri

    Rebecca Watson forged One Ring to Rule Them All.

  326. 326
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    Hmmm, again with linky goodness for the youngn’s….

    Rebecca Watson broke my homemade jam by the civic hall.

  327. 327
    Jessa

    I had a Slinky once, but Rebecca Watson straightened it.

  328. 328
    cyberCMDR

    Rebecca Watson gave Tinkerbell the clap.

  329. 329
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Rebecca Watson released the rage virus.

  330. 330
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson forced Bill Haydon to spy for Karla.

  331. 331
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Oh, nice one, Mattir!

    Rebecca Watson is Tyler Durden.

  332. 332
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson killed the Equal Rights Amendment. As part of her Ineffable Plan™.

  333. 333
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Rebecca Watson is just a bad penny.

  334. 334
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Rebecca Watson drinks milk straight out of the carton. :(

  335. 335
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson caused Almanzo Wilder’s first homestead to fail.

  336. 336
    Jessa

    Rebecca Watson put a hotel on Boardwalk, bankrupting me when I landed on it.

  337. 337
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson Invented Creative Memories scrapbooking.

  338. 338
    tonyinbatavia

    Rebecca Watson named her daughter Porsche and called Otto out on his lie about the CIA.

  339. 339
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Rebecca Watson destroyed the dreams of I.G.Y.

  340. 340
    A. R

    Rebecca Watson is Ken Ham.

  341. 341
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson foiled my jungle search for mangoes.

  342. 342
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Rebecca Watson drinks milk straight out of the carton. :(

    You are conjuring the ghosts of memories of the Rookie.

  343. 343
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Tony Montana was destroyed by his incestuous love for Rebecca Watson.

  344. 344
    Jessa

    Rebecca Watson designed the Edsel. And the Yugo.

  345. 345
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Rebecca Watson is the boot to the face of the world, forever.

  346. 346
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson skinny-dipped in the Tidal Basin with Wilbur Mills.

  347. 347
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Janine:

    You areRebecca Watson is conjuring the ghosts of memories of the Rookie.

  348. 348
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson pushed Clementine off the boardwalk.

  349. 349
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Rebecca Watson won’t leggo my Eggo!

  350. 350
    Cipher

    Rebecca Watson stole my sweetroll.

  351. 351
    Jessa

    Mattir:

    Rebecca Watson skinny-dipped in the Tidal Basin with Wilbur Mills.

    Fun fact: I-630, the east-west artery through Little Rock, is still called the Wilbur Mills Freeway.

  352. 352
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson inspired Alain de Botton to write Religion for Atheists.

  353. 353
    chigau (違う)

    Rebecca Watson has jumped the shark.

  354. 354
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    It’s of my great regrets that I never heard Mills speak in AA – he sobered up and was apparently a pretty amazing guy and a wonderful speaker.

  355. 355
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Rebecca Watson left me crosseyed and painless.

  356. 356
    The Mellow Monkey: Non-Hypothetical

    Rebecca Watson broke off the Sphinx’s nose.

  357. 357
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson inspired this seriously NSFW painting.

  358. 358
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Rebecca Watson invented disco.

  359. 359
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    And progrock.

  360. 360
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Mattir, Stephen Colbert does not approve.

  361. 361
    Cipher

    I crouched patiently in that quiet grove for nearly an hour. The butterfly, brilliant in color and so rare in this part of the country, fluttered and floated among the trees, nearly refusing to land. Finally, my patience was rewarded. The butterfly perched gracefully on the jagged edge of a rock, only a few feet in front of me. I crept toward it with the stealth of a cat, my camera steady, my finger resting carefully on the shutter release button, my whole body tensed in anticipation of that perfect shot. Then, at the last possible second…

    Rebecca Watson photobombed it.

  362. 362
    carlie

    Rebecca Watson knocked over my cabbaage cart.

  363. 363
    anoncoward

    Rebecca Watson played backwards sounds like “I buried Justicar.”

  364. 364
    Anri

    Rebecca Watson is the reason that Ponies will end someday.

    Rebecca Watson stole the Silmarils.

    Rebecca Watson is the reason there will never be a sequel to Jet Set Radio Future.

  365. 365
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson was the inspiration for Mrs. Proudie. (Trollope reference)

  366. 366
    Anri

    Oh, wait, just to date myself further:
    Rebecca Watson is the reason Bubblegum Crash sucked.

    (Hey, given my ‘nym…)

  367. 367
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Of what does Stephen Colbert not approve?

    Rebecca Watson started Up With People.

  368. 368
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Audley, Rebecca Watson had nothing to do with Le Freak.

    But she is RESPONSIBLE for A Fifth Of Beethoven.

  369. 369
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Mattir:
    Bears.

  370. 370
    Jessa

    Rebecca Watson invented “Mr. Microphone”.

  371. 371
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Rebecca Watson was the second gunman on the grassy knoll.

  372. 372
    chigau (違う)

    Mattir #357
    Where have I seen that before?
    http://www.amazon.ca/Bear-Marian-Engel/dp/0771093225

  373. 373
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson killed Bruce Lee with her Esoteric Ninja Skillz™.

  374. 374
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    You have to ask, Mattir?

    Bear!

    They are godless killing machines!

  375. 375
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson was one of the kids on Barney. She was also the vacuum cleaner in Teletubbies.

  376. 376
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Because of Rebecca Watson, I can envision Dart Vader making like John Travolta.

  377. 377
    A. R

    They are godless killing machines!

    Umm, shouldn’t they be on our side then?

  378. 378
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Killing machine? I would rather be a dancing machine.

  379. 379
    Cipher

    Rebecca Watson caused the making of Yo Gabba Gabba.

  380. 380
    markr1957

    Rebecca Watson is the reason for Heisenberg’ uncertainty.

  381. 381
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson seduced Enkidu and ruined his magic powers.

  382. 382
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Rebecca Watson lead the Freaks.

  383. 383
    Jessa

    Rebecca Watson didn’t help with the Shake ‘n Bake, despite her claims otherwise.

  384. 384
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Rebecca Watson has made me sleepy so that I have to quit this wonderful thread. (Showing The Other Mr, Mattir the Mormons dressing like this video was worth the whole evening of play!)

  385. 385
    Malkyrian

    Long ago, the four nations lived together in harmony. Then, everything changed when Rebecca Watson attacked.

  386. 386
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Rebecca Watson forced me to waste my entire evening looking at Cute Boys With Cats.

  387. 387
    dysomniak "They are unanimous in their hate for me, and I welcome their hatred!"

    Rebecca Watson made #FTBullies recycle all their pop culture references from twitter.

  388. 388
    cyberCMDR

    Rebecca Watson dropped the Thread on Pern

    Rebecca Watson invented Snuggies

    Rebecca Watson stole the Elder Wand

    Rebecca Watson killed Dumbledore

    Rebecca Watson is Nehemiah Scudder

  389. 389
    hypatiasdaughter

    Rebecca Watson lead the conspiracy (along with Ophelia, PZ, Thunderf00t and Paula Kirby) to produce the absolute funniest posts on the intertubes: the FtB tweets and this thread.

  390. 390
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Thanks for the laughs.

    Night.

  391. 391
    The twelfth vote

    You guys have so missed the real point. What about the men? WHAT ABOUT THE MEN? And their problems and stuff.

  392. 392
    hypatiasdaughter

    Rebecca Watson invented karaoke.
    Rebecca Watson wrote the script for Prometheus.
    Rebecca Watson gave my cat hairballs.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Geez, this is addictive.

  393. 393
    jemby5

    The fire analogy doesn’t hold up because you are comparing a natural hazard whose consequences are objective, demonstrable, and measurable to a human behavior and the subsequent subjective interpretation of said behavior.

    The definition of harassment is murky at best and mostly depends on ones’ perception. Basically, the plan being proposed makes Big Brother go private. Anyone with an axe to grind can claim harassment on anyone else just by virtue of their perception.

    That said, I support the plan because we are at the point of no return. There has been too much talk about this issue/non-issue for no action to be taken. However, let the buyer beware. The first time someone (a guy) gets asked to tone it down or stop said behavior based on “the plan,” a youtube video will pop up and more in fighting will ensue.

  394. 394
    dysomniak "They are unanimous in their hate for me, and I welcome their hatred!"

    The first time someone (a guy) gets asked to tone it down or stop said behavior based on “the plan,” a youtube video will pop up and more in fighting will ensue.

    Good. The more DEEEP RIIIIFFFTSSS with the MRAssholes the better. Seriously, why should any rational, progressive person care about alienating that sort of filth?

  395. 395
    A. R

    Rebecca Watson made George Lucas make the prequel series.

  396. 396
    mythbri

    @A.R

    There are things that go too far.

    Ahem.

    Rebecca gave Michael Bay the idea to have Bumblebee pee on John Turturro.

  397. 397
    chigau (違う)

    Most work-place harassment policies that I have encountered are very specific, not murky at all.

  398. 398
    carlie

    The first time someone (a guy) gets asked to tone it down or stop said behavior based on “the plan,” a youtube video will pop up and more in fighting will ensue.

    You do realize that most other large cons have harassment policies, yes? Where are all the youtube videos of poor men getting attacked due to those policies?

  399. 399
    mythbri

    Rebecca Watson was the one-armed man.

    Rebecca Watson killed Batman’s parents.

    I looked into the abyss, and I saw Rebecca Watson.

  400. 400
    weakswimmer

    Rebecca Watson convinced J.D. Salinger to make Holden Caulfield an asshat.

    Rebecca Watson keeps saving the Daleks while the Doctor loses everything.

    Rebecca Watson is wrecking havoc on my family’s sinuses.

    Rebecca Watson’s cobalt eyes are the secret forest pools of Finlandia.

  401. 401
    Daz, when the wind's called Mariah I know a hawk from a handsaw

    Anyone with an axe to grind can claim harassment on anyone else just by virtue of their perception.

    Pardon? Either you’re arguing that they’re making false reports because of the axe to grind, or they’re basing the report on a (implied possibly mistaken) perception of harassment. Which is it?

    Not that it matters; either way you’re avoiding the issue by proposing hypothetical extremes.

  402. 402
    direlobo

    Has anyone mentioned the Hindenburg yet? I think Rebecca Watson caused that as well…

  403. 403
    Alethea Kuiper-Belt

    Oh, the huge manatee!

  404. 404
    jemby5

    Actually most work place harassment policies are based on quid pro quo and depend on the perception of the plaintiff.

    I enjoy the emotional charge this topic evokes in anyone remotely invested in the conversation. A little comment goes a long way, and its provided some entertaining in fighting with TF vs P.Z. We got some new memes like “elevatorgate” out of it.

    P.Z. and T.F. are two grown men, both research scientists, having a youtube/blog battle over policy minutia. These people write grant proposals and publish studies in peer reviewed journals. Between their conversations with grad students and school of science deans, they lean into their laptops to post the latest installations of their flame wars.

    I haven’t been this entertained since…. elevatorgate actually.

  405. 405
    Ariaflame, BSc, BF, PhD

    Oh look, slimepit jemby5 is back. Trolling trolling trolling. So basically you’re just in it for the lulz since you are privileged and have no actual horse in the race. You don’t get harassed, or fear for your safety in public, or even non-public places. Well bully for you. I really hope that continues. But I want for people who don’t have that privilege to have some places where they don’t get harassed, or if they do, they have people backing them up and discouraging, or removing, the harassers.

    You are Number 6.

    Rebecca Watson is Number 1.

  406. 406
    vexorian

    Flame war, that is also a term that is emotionally charged, just like troll. When a discussion is called a “flame war”, suddenly it loses importance… but should it?

    Is the topic not important? I would say it is. One side is largely interested in removing discomfort of women from skeptic conventions. The other side is very interested in making sure no outsider gets the idea that there is a sexual harassment issue that is bigger among atheists and/or skeptics. Of course we have the bunch of idiots that add vitrol to the discussion by name calling feminazis, posting non-sense, calling out the misandrists and the misogynists, dogma users, etc, etc and etc.

    But overall I think a harassment policy is a good idea.

  407. 407
    cyberCMDR

    Rebecca Watson is the Lightning Thief

  408. 408
    elronxenu

    Rebecca Watson is the root cause of all tpyos.

  409. 409
    vexorian

    SOPA? Rebecca Watson’s idea.

  410. 410
    elronxenu

    Rebecca Watson has all the selfish genes.

    And she made Richard Dawkins look bad by forcing him to comment on a topic where he is pretty clueless!

  411. 411
    Alethea Kuiper-Belt

    Hey, is it also Rebecca Watson’s fault that skepchick is down? I’m a little concerned here.

  412. 412
    ladyh42

    She also instructed Mr Blonde about what to do with the cop.

    Rebecca Watson shot Mr Pink.”

    I shit you not 20 minutes ago I had never seen that movie and wouldn’t have got the joke. Hubby and I just finished watching it.

  413. 413
    ladyh42

    Also two words: Jimmy Hoffa

  414. 414
    Lofty

    Blimey. This Rebecca Watson must be one totally awesome 100% cool peoples to do all of this!!!!!!

    Erm, Q, what didn’t she do?

  415. 415
    TheBlackCat

    Rebecca Watson made the Judge Dredd movie.

    Rebecca Watson wrote Timecube.

    Rebecca Watson let Ganondorf into the sacred land.

    Rebecca Watson killed Kenny.

    Rebecca Watson came up with the over-the-shoulder scenes in Other M.

    Rebecca Watson nuked the site from orbit, since it was the only way to be sure.

    Rebecca Watson killed Mr. Boddy in the library with a candlestick.

    Rebecca Watson killed the sequel to Loom.

  416. 416
    dysomniak "They are unanimous in their hate for me, and I welcome their hatred!"

    Rebecca Watson shot Mr Pink.

    And nice guy Eddie.

  417. 417
    Gnumann+,with no bloody irony at all (just an anti-essentialist feminist with a shotgun)

    Rebecca Watson taught Jembynumbers how to use a computer and set them loose on the world.

  418. 418
    jemby5

    The blame-Rebecca gag is P.Z.’s answer to the refute-an-argument-P.Z.-never-made campaign right?

    Both are somewhat of a Chuck Norris rip off. Neither are particularly funny or ironic. You can’t force memes they have to be born organically.

    As for The Plan, I believe I’ve said that I support it. However, tell me what you girls [gender inclusive] think of the fallowing contention:

    All peoples’ feelings are fair game and have no right to be protected.

  419. 419
    Gnumann+,with no bloody irony at all (just an anti-essentialist feminist with a shotgun)

    Rebecca Watson made jembynumbers think that we care about their opinions and that they should share.

  420. 420
    jemby5

    Rebecca Watson made me refer to her as a self absorbed cunt.

  421. 421
    bastionofsass

    I know for a fact that Rebecca Watson goes to every production of Peter Pan in the world and refuses to clap to save Tinkerbell.

    She especially enjoys not-clapping at elementary school productions where she’s been heard to yell, “I do not believe in fairies! They’re not real! But if they were real, I’d hope Tinkerbell dies!” And then she laughs a really mean laugh when all the children start crying.

  422. 422
    Owlmirror

    You can’t force memes they have to be born organically.

    Rebecca Watson forced the Blame-Rebecca-Watson meme. (Ooh! Self reference!)

  423. 423
    jemby5

    I take it back; blaming Rebecca is fun!

  424. 424
    Gnumann+,with no bloody irony at all (just an anti-essentialist feminist with a shotgun)

    Jembynumbers: You are not allowed to play!

    (Note the lack of phrases like “I’m sorry” or “unfortunately”)

    Now, go away!

  425. 425
    Owlmirror

    Rebecca Watson made jemby5 a self-absorbed asshole.

  426. 426
    Owlmirror

    Rebecca Watson made jemby5 a blithering misogynist.

  427. 427
    Owlmirror

    Rebecca Watson made jemby5 feel inadequate.

  428. 428
    jemby5

    Rebecca Watson made me watch the two PW’d, pandering crotch goblins on the skepchick panel and the Novella brothers’ jokes on SGU.

  429. 429
    Owlmirror

    Rebecca Watson negged jemby5 so badly he can’t leave the house.

  430. 430
    Owlmirror

    Rebecca Watson said this to jemby5:

    You look like you're going to spend your life having one epiphany after another, always thinking you've finally figured out what's holding you back, and how you can finally be productive and creative and turn your life around.
    But nothing will ever change. That cycle of mediocrity isn't due to some obstacle. It's who you are.
    The thing standing in the way of your dreams. . .
    . . . is that the person having them is you.

  431. 431
    jemby5

    Rebecca Watson said Jane Goodall has a good sense on SGU of making me want to come through the fiber optic cables and go Jake Lamotta on her.

  432. 432
    jemby5

    Rebecca Watson made you plagiarize an xkcd comic strip.

  433. 433
    dysomniak "They are unanimous in their hate for me, and I welcome their hatred!"

    Rebecca Watson made jemby post:

    Comment by jemby5 blocked. [unkill]​[show comment]

  434. 434
    jemby5

    Its fucking official, I love this meme. And god damn it I love Rebecca Watson…

  435. 435
    Owlmirror

    Rebecca Watson made jemby5 buy a codpiece.

  436. 436
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Rebecca Watson made jemby5 stink up this thread. :(

  437. 437
    Wowbagger, Designated Snarker

    Rebecca Watson made PZ ban jemby5 and remove his posts.

    [waits patiently]

  438. 438
    Owlmirror

    Rebecca Watson made jemby5′s codpiece give him an uncomfortable itchy rash, and make him feel more inadequate than ever.

  439. 439
    dysomniak "They are unanimous in their hate for me, and I welcome their hatred!"

    Rebecca Watson made me peek behind the killfile out of morbid curiosity. Apparently she also led jembo to believe that quoting someone – with a link to the source – is plagiarism. Praise be to the Watson, for she hath blessed us with much irony this eve through her unwitting servant jambi.

  440. 440
    jemby5

    Rebecca Watson made me fantasize about putting duck tape over her mouth, tying her up in my trunk, and chasing her through the woods with a hammer…

    That should do it. It has been fun and I will be back…reincarnated.

  441. 441
    jemby5

    I do thank you for the bountiful feast you lay before trolls.

  442. 442
    Forbidden Snowflake

    Rebecca Watson made jemby5 chase her through the woods with a hammer while she was somewhere else altogether.

  443. 443
    Loqi

    Rebecca Watson is the reason Franc hoggles.

  444. 444
    Owlmirror

    Rebecca Watson made jemby5 pathetically unaware of how pathetic he is.

  445. 445
    tigtog

    Rebecca Watson made Jembynumbers fail to notice that the troll-feast was a lie.

  446. 446
    Owlmirror

    Rebecca Watson made jemby5 plagiarize cable sports and horror channels.

  447. 447
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Rebecca Watson gave jemby5 a wedgie. After emptying a tube of superglue down the back of his pants.

    (Now that would explain the hate)

  448. 448
    stevepayne

    Rebecca Watson made jemby think that DUCT tape was made for ducks.

  449. 449
    Owlmirror

    Rebecca Watson made jemby5 feel starved for attention.

  450. 450
    rorschach

    What does Sid think of the last 12 months, I wonder?

  451. 451
    Wowbagger, Designated Snarker

    Can’t sleep, Rebecca Watson will eat me.
    Can’t sleep, Rebecca Watson will eat me.
    Can’t sleep, Rebecca Watson will eat me.

  452. 452
    suzysalaksartok

    Rebecca Watson made me prone to having blackouts.

    Rebecca Watson set Discord free.

    Rebecca Watson suddenly creation of Harry Potter’s gaming board of much guessing on fire.

    Rebecca Watson made me prone to having blackouts.

    Rebecca Watson has a framed picture of a spoon.

    Rebecca Watson made me prone to having blackouts.

  453. 453
    Sophia, Michelin-starred General of the First Mediterranean Iron Chef Batallion

    Rebecca Watson n’est pas une pipe.

    I used to be Rebecca Watson, then I got an arrow through the knee…

  454. 454
    opposablethumbs

    Rebecca Watson, c’est moi nous.

  455. 455
    'Tis Himself

    Rebecca Watson invented My Little Pony.

  456. 456
    Amblebury

    I had a little pony. Rebecca Watson ate it.

  457. 457
    Matt Penfold

    Rebecca Watson ate my hamster.

  458. 458
    weakswimmer

    Rebecca Watson filled my hovercraft with eels.

  459. 459
    Wowbagger, Designated Snarker

    Rebecca Watson disbanded the PTA.

  460. 460
    Flewellyn

    Rebecca Watson ate my balls!

    …wait, no, that was Chewbacca. Then Rebecca Watson ate his.

    (Anyone else remember that meme from the paleolithic internet?)

  461. 461
    Amblebury

    Rebecca Watson has an apostrophe gun. It’s her that fire’s them in all the wrong place’s.

  462. 462
    John Morales

    [where're are the slimepitters?]

    It’s Rebecca’s fault, obviously.

  463. 463
    Wowbagger, Designated Snarker

    [where're are the slimepitters?]

    They aren’t on Twitter – well, if they are, they aren’t using the #FTBullies hashtag.

  464. 464
    rorschach

    They aren’t on Twitter

    Maltseva is. Blackford is. Hale is. Drescher is.

  465. 465
    Wowbagger, Designated Snarker

    They aren’t posting using the #FTBullies hashtag in their tweets is what I meant.

  466. 466
    shotsick

    There is no real danger to women at these conventions. In fact I venture there is less risk to a women atten

    Convention staffers are not qualified nor do they have the authority to investigate, collect evidence, and decipher truth from deception in interviews. These are jobs for law enforcement. Any enforcement of rules at a convention needs to be done by the facilitators of the event, namely hotel security.

    I think the plan attempts to list actions that will get attendees kicked out of the convention which I do not have a problem with. Every organization or event has a code of conduct. TAM and other events should be no different.

    However, many members of FTB appear to have dug their trenches deep on this issue. I’ve read through this entire thread and I notice that anyone not in your trench draws immediate fire. I’m not talking about the trolls. Although, anyone who does not buy in wholesale gets branded as one.

  467. 467
    rorschach

    They aren’t posting using the #FTBullies hashtag

    Maltseva is. Blackford is. Hale is. Drescher is.

    At least in my twitter feed.

  468. 468
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    However, many members of FTB appear to have dug their trenches deep on this issue. I’ve read through this entire thread and I notice that anyone not in your trench draws immediate fire. I’m not talking about the trolls. Although, anyone who does not buy in wholesale gets branded as one.

    Ever notice those arguing for no code of conduct never present any evidence that they aren’t needed, just their opinions they aren’t needed. Which is why they draw fire. They aren’t arguing honestly and with evidence. They wish to impose their opinions on those who look at the evidence. Pay attention to such distinctions. Happens with creationsists, godbots, and anyone who ignores evidence. Nothing but an argument from authority, with them the authority.

  469. 469
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Convention staffers are not qualified nor do they have the authority to investigate, collect evidence, and decipher truth from deception in interviews.

    This sounds like a job for… Horation Caine and his sunglasses.

  470. 470
    carlie

    Convention staffers are not qualified nor do they have the authority to investigate, collect evidence, and decipher truth from deception in interviews. These are jobs for law enforcement. Any enforcement of rules at a convention needs to be done by the facilitators of the event, namely hotel security.

    Again, what’s being discussed isn’t any different than policies that workplaces and conventions everywhere already have in place and have had in place for years. You people are acting as if this is a daring new untested idea rather than standard practice.

  471. 471
    shotsick

    @ Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Honestly I haven’t seen an abundance of evidence (none at all actually) presented from either side. However, I you seem to hold the same rigid dogma of the people you are indicting. You immediately categorized people who disagree with your position as collectively arguing from authority.

    First of all, what specific claim are they making that you believe is an argument from authority.

    On a side note, I’m new to FTB. Why does everyone feed the Trolls here? I’m used to Trolls on Youtube and the minute they don’t get a response, they’re gone. That one asshole who dropped the C-bomb on RW was clearly trying to get a reaction from everyone, and everyone obliged him.

  472. 472
    shotsick

    @carlie

    Did you not read my post? I agree that there should be a plan. I said that didn’t I?

  473. 473
    shotsick

    @carlie

    Also, who is “you people?” Please just address my points not the points of those you think I am aligned with.

  474. 474
    Wowbagger, Designated Snarker

    Maltseva is. Blackford is. Hale is. Drescher is.

    At least in my twitter feed.

    Huh? Where are you looking?

    None of those three are posting tweets with that hashtag in them. I’ve got a real-time hashtag search open and there’s nothing from any of those four. Maltseva’s last tweet was an hour ago; Blackford’s last one with the hashtag was yesterday. Hale doesn’t appear to have ever used it. Don’t know about Drescher.

  475. 475
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Honestly I haven’t seen an abundance of evidence (none at all actually) presented from either side.

    Then you have missed the first 5000+ plus posts of us discussing the issue, with evidence presented. So, there is a consensus here that a code of conduct is a good thing. Where is any evidence that it isn’t?

    First of all, what specific claim are they making that you believe is an argument from authority.

    The claim that a code of conduct is not needed, with them claiming the authority with their OPINION and attitudes. But then, you haven’t been here and understand the back posts that got us here.

    Why does everyone feed the Trolls here?

    We feed them until the burst, never to return. See PZ’s standards and practices.

  476. 476
    John Morales

    shotsick”

    Also, who is “you people?” Please just address my points not the points of those you think I am aligned with.

    “you people” is the set of people spouting your purported views.

    (duh)

  477. 477
    shotsick

    @Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    “5000+ plus posts of us discussing the issue, with evidence presented.”

    So, there’s evidence but its contained in an online dialog spanning 5000 posts. This is like a creationist saying that the Bible makes predictions which have come true but fails to give any specifics. I was hoping you could cite a study that either A) shows the abundance of harassment at conventions or B) shows a code of conduct significantly reduces reports of harassment.

    “The claim that a code of conduct is not needed, with them claiming the authority with their OPINION and attitudes.”

    Your demonstration of an argument from authority is that you assert they “claimed authority with their opinion.” I’m sorry, but this is not critical thinking. I was hoping for at least a quote from some one that contained an argument from authority, such as “No code is needing because D.J. Grothe said it isn’t a problem.” Instead, you rephrased my question in the form of a statement.

    This is what happens in an echo chamber. People forget how they arrived at their conclusions.

  478. 478
    carlie

    Did you not read my post? I agree that there should be a plan. I said that didn’t I?

    And then said that making staffers responsible for taking complaints was a strange thing fraught with potential problems, when that is the standard way that other policies operate. I’m asking what evidence you have that this is problematic, given that it’s the way that seems to be done without problems by every other group that operates in this manner.

  479. 479
    shotsick

    @ John Morales

    I didn’t realize I purported such controversial and novel views, considering I’ve already stated that I support the plan or code of conduct at meetings.

  480. 480
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Rebecca Watson has exactly the Lego I need and she won’t share!

  481. 481
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    I didn’t realize I purported such controversial and novel views, considering I’ve already stated that I support the plan or code of conduct at meetings.

    Ah, but you appear to be arguing for the other side, hence the implication. That is something called concern trolling. What is your real point?

  482. 482
    John Morales

    shotsick:

    This is what happens in an echo chamber. People forget how they arrived at their conclusions.

    It’s Rebecca Watson’s fault you’ve forgotten how you arrived at your conclusions.

  483. 483
    debraobrien

    De-lurking to say that this was the funniest thread ever. I laughed all night. You people are the best. It’s the place I feel most at home anywhere because it’s safe – misogynists and rape-apologists will be confronted – and fun. Who said feminism was humourless? Thank you all for being brilliant and kind. You really have no idea how much some of us lurkers out here love you all.

  484. 484
    vexorian

    Rebecca Watson made jembynumbers think that we care about their opinions and that they should share.

    You convinced me, She is a complete monster.

  485. 485
    John Morales

    shotsick:

    I didn’t realize I purported such controversial and novel views, considering I’ve already stated that I support the plan or code of conduct at meetings.

    Rebecca Watson’s fault; by her very existence she confused you so that you didn’t realise it was your quoted words which addressed.

  486. 486
    shotsick

    @carlie

    what I said:

    “Convention staffers are not qualified nor do they have the authority to investigate, collect evidence, and decipher truth from deception in interviews.”

    what you said I said:

    “taking complaints was a strange thing fraught with potential problems, when that is the standard way that other policies operate.”

    I was stating a fact. Staffers are not qualified to conduct investigations, collect evidence, etc. especially if a law has been broken. They can kick someone out of the convention but cannot physically facilitate the removal. The only force of law that the plan can carry is A) you’re kicked out of the convention or B) we’re calling the cops.

    If someone is assaulted at these conventions I want immediate police involvement not a bunch of Jerry Sandusky internal-investigation bullshit.

    If the convention staffers act as anything other than an observe-and-report entity, they are setting themselves up for a major lawsuit.

  487. 487
    carlie

    I didn’t realize I purported such controversial and novel views, considering I’ve already stated that I support the plan or code of conduct at meetings.

    You said:

    There is no real danger to women at these conventions.

    What is your evidence to that, especially given that we have several documented cases of harassment at these conventions?

    Convention staffers are not qualified nor do they have the authority to investigate, collect evidence, and decipher truth from deception in interviews. These are jobs for law enforcement. Any enforcement of rules at a convention needs to be done by the facilitators of the event, namely hotel security.

    Most policies state that professionals will be called in if it goes beyond the skills of a staffer. And again, other conventions and places of employment already have such policies, and they appear to work. There are stories in existence of those policies working (see the one about the sex card, for example). Don’t know the story about the sex card? Then maybe you need to read some more first, and not spout an opinion without knowing the facts surrounding the situation you’re opining about.

    However, many members of FTB appear to have dug their trenches deep on this issue.

    Because the point is to decrease harassment. How would you like for trenches not to be dug – to say yes, some harassment is ok? How much exactly would be enough compromise for you?

    I’ve read through this entire thread and I notice that anyone not in your trench draws immediate fire. I’m not talking about the trolls. Although, anyone who does not buy in wholesale gets branded as one.

    More like anyone who decides to loftily tell us what’s important without even knowing anything about the situation first.

  488. 488
    carlie

    If someone is assaulted at these conventions I want immediate police involvement not a bunch of Jerry Sandusky internal-investigation bullshit.

    FOR FUCK’S SAKE. Of course police would be called in for an assault. Policies cover everything under that, like following somebody around, trying to neg them, not taking no for an answer, the kind of thing that usually evaporates as soon as someone with any con authority tells them to knock it the hell off if they want to be able to go to any more of the convention activities.

  489. 489
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    I was stating a fact. Staffers are not qualified to conduct investigations, collect evidence, etc. especially if a law has been broken. They can kick someone out of the convention but cannot physically facilitate the removal. The only force of law that the plan can carry is A) you’re kicked out of the convention or B) we’re calling the cops.

    Again, concern trolling. Staffers are trained to take notes and document the situation. It can hold up in court if needed (credible witnesses). And most of all they can call in hotel security which is authorized to remove people. Cops need not be involved at any step of the process. Which is why the argument “leave it to the cops” is a non-argument. It need not happen. Only a person arguing for no code of conduct goes there. So, what is your problem?

  490. 490
    Pteryxx

    I was hoping you could cite a study that either A) shows the abundance of harassment at conventions or B) shows a code of conduct significantly reduces reports of harassment.

    Convention-exceptionalism, anyone? Decades worth of research exists on sexual harassment, and much of it’s referenced in posts listed in Jason Thibeault’s timeline.

    Sample: as it happens, b) HAS been addressed long since: (thanks to ixchel)

    The Impact of a University Policy on the Sexual Harassment of Female Students

    http://www.jstor.org/stable/1982220

    Our survey results indicate that reports of faculty/staff sexual harassment of female undergraduates have declined over the past six years. Our analyses suggest that the sexual harassment policy and grievance procedure established at the University of Massachusetts at Amherst helped prevent faculty/staff sexual harassment of female undergraduate students.

  491. 491
    FluffyTheTerrible

    @shotshick

    Carlie and other posters have been extremely kind, and explained things to you.
    However, considering there’s always at least one of your ilk on every thread, just asking questions, and being all concerned – about the wrong category, might I add – and having absolutely no fucking clue what he/she is talking about – or feigning ignorance-, I’m going to take the shorter approach, and tell you to FUCK OFF.

    Also, totally agree with debraobrien – this thread is one the funniest things I’ve read on the internet.

  492. 492
    shotsick

    @Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    “Ah, but you appear to be arguing for the other side, hence the implication. That is something called concern trolling. What is your real point?”

    I certainly do not agree with you’re position 100%. However, saying I agree that there should be a plan puts a small dent in theory. I do not believe any of you have thought about how it will be enforced, and the limited power staffers have in enforcing anything outside of asking people to leave.

  493. 493
    vexorian

    Rebecca Watson planted fossils all around the world to make us believe creationism is false and make us all go to hell because we didn’t believe.

    That was a Dick move, Watson.

  494. 494
    Wowbagger, Designated Snarker

    As a kid, I – as many kids do – had the ability to know exactly what to do to annoy the teacher but not so much that it would justify her sending me to the principal. And I exploited this at every opportunity I could, much like certain kinds of people do when they can get away with it.

    What I’m trying to say is that we’re not trying to stop the things that people do that would be considered illegal – since we genuinely don’t believe any atheist organisation would sweep something like that under the rug – we’re trying to stop people doing the non-illegal but nonetheless unpleasant things that make people not want to go to conventions.

  495. 495
    'Tis Himself

    shotsick #468

    <q?Convention staffers are not qualified nor do they have the authority to investigate, collect evidence, and decipher truth from deception in interviews.

    Your evidence for this is what? It’s an opinion, nothing more.

    We hear MRAs whine about how women lie continually about rape and sexual harassment. You seem to have bought into this meme. So convince us that there’s a reason to be actually concerned about “deception” in reports of sexual harassment.

  496. 496
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Typical concern troll against codes of conduct/anti harassment policies. About 1-2 a day pop up here for posts.

    1) Give lip service to agree with the policy.
    2) Start bring up concerns about the implementation of said policy, all evidenceless opinions.
    3) End up trying to undermine the implementation of said policies by making them seem impractical to implement effectively.

    Look in the shotsick and see what you are doing. For example, you want us to present evidence, yet you present none of your own. You fit the above description to a tee. Which is why we are suspicious of your motives, which aren’t pure. If you lie about your motives, what else will you lie about?

  497. 497
    Arkady

    Sigh, repost from an earlier thread at Ophelia’s in response to Shotsick, who doesn’t seem to grasp that for women, sod-all spaces are ever that safe:

    Yes, [TAM, insert-Con-here] probably isn’t any less safe than any random non-atheist event/night out…

    Can’t speak to anyone else’s experience, but it’s rare to go on a night out with friends in my current city and not have something unpleasant happen. Groping/attempted groping from strangers (and one creepy colleague I tend to avoid), proposition from a taxi driver when I was the last one in the car, 2AM guys who proposition then scream ‘BITCH’ as close as they can to you ear when rejected, drunk guys who come up to say something then try to kiss you… I was reflecting on this recently after warning two new colleagues about Creep in our lab, that so many of those objecting to these policies (and the earlier objections to the very fact that women pass on details of creeps to each other that Jen recounted) seem to have no idea how many of us depressingly have to deal with this shit on a regular basis in our ‘real lives’.

    Now Shotsick, you may well not classify groping and angry-screaming-rejected men as ‘real danger’. Would you care to explain what you would consider ‘real danger’ to be?

  498. 498
    John Morales

    shotsick:

    I do not believe any of you have thought about how it will be enforced, and the limited power staffers have in enforcing anything outside of asking people to leave.

    Perhaps Rebecca Watson is training cadre teams of elite ninja skepchick lesbian bouncers — wouldn’t put it past her.

  499. 499
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    However, saying I agree that there should be a plan puts a small dent in theory.

    Nope, all it means is that you potentially lie. I look at your total behavior. It is that of a concern troll, not a supporter.

  500. 500
    'Tis Himself

    My #495 should reference post #486.

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