I’m soon to be stuffed and mounted on the mantelpiece »« Pharyngula Podcast #3

An excellent plan

We’re going to distract all attention from our horrible #FTBullies status by a well-tested expedient: We’re going to blame Rebecca Watson for everything. At last, all Deep Rifts are healed!


I must highlight a comment from kosk11348 that encapsulates the whole recent mess.

The best analogy I’ve heard yet for understanding this situation is a fire evacuation plan. Fires are rare, yet it makes sense to have a plan in place. Continuing that analogy, here’s my rundown of the “conversation” thus far:

FTB: “Fire evacuation plans are a good idea. We recommend that all skeptical events have one.”

DJ Grothe: “All this talk of fires scares away attendees. Plus TAM has never, ever had a fire.”

Stephanie Zvan: “Actually, there have been a few small fires at TAM. Remember that trash can that caught on fire?”

DJ Grothe: “Yes, I put that fire out myself. At no time did anyone feel unsafe.”

FTB: “Ok, but you just said…never mind. The point is, because there was no policy in place, we now have no record of the fire, no investigation into the cause of the fire, and no reason to think another fire might happen again. Are you currently training your staff to know what to do in the event of a fire?”

DJ Grothe: “We have a robust fire evacuation plan printed in our literature. It reads: ‘TAM hates fires.'”

FTB: “But that’s not really a plan…”

Russell Blackford: “Is there any evidence that things burn?”

MRAs: “Look, it’s the fire department’s job to handle fires. If you are on fire, call them.”

FTB: “Huh? You’re saying it’s the victim’s responsibility to alert the fire department? What about the responsibility of the organizers…”

MRAs: “#FTB bullies say TAM is infested with arsonists!”

FTB: “What? Nobody is saying that! Arsonists do exist, sure. But we have no reason to think TAM is any worse than the general population in that respect. Look, it’s really simple…”

Ophelia Benson: “You know, I was schedule to speak at TAM, but I just got this really weird letter explaining in great detail about what to do when I find myself in a fire at TAM. Like, seriously detailed. It described the flames singing my hair, peeling my flesh…”

Russell Blackford: “Way to overreact to a helpful warning!”

Thunderf00t: “I will continue to offer to light friends’ cigarettes for them and you can’t stop me!”

Paula Kirby: “The firestasi see fires everywhere because they love to pretend they are all victims of fire, just like the Nazis.”

FTB: “Ok, now this is just getting bizarre…”

Harriet Hall’s T-shirt: “I feel safe from fires at TAM (even though it still doesn’t have a fire evacuation plan)”

FTB: *sigh*

We’re done now.

Comments

  1. Skeptic Dude says

    Elevatorgate was by far the best thing that ever happened to RW any way you look at it. She previously couldn’t get a blog hit to save her life. Now shes been a “hot topic”, “center of controversy” who can thrive on complaining of amorphous misogony and “privelege” by spewing anecdotes. Unfortunately at some point people will become bored of her victim fetish and her credibility is going to have to stand on her actual contributions to skepticism. Thats gonna suck for her.

  2. fredsalvador says

    The persecution of street magicians continues unabated. For shame, atheist community; for shame.

  3. Patricia, OM says

    Well that solves the mystery of where that giant pile comes from, that’s in the middle of my lawn every morning.

  4. Gnumann, quisling of the MRA nation says

    The real question is when even MRAs and libertarians will get fed up with whining maggots like that septic dude on top here…

  5. fredsalvador says

    Elevatorgate was by far the best thing that ever happened to RW any way you look at it.

    Elevatorgate was a good thing for the atheist community as a whole, because it allowed the whiny ManRightsMans to expose themselves, that we may all mock their stupid persecution complexes and “mate-deprivation” issues with glee and abandon.

  6. Rip Steakface says

    Count on mentioning RW for douchecannons like Skeptic Dude up there to show up.

  7. Beatrice says

    Ha! You are all late, I figured this out days ago:

    You naive fools, it’s* Rebecca Watson’s fault.

    *it can stand for anything you wish.
    Example: I had to do my surveys today, but couldn’t find the addresses because the bus driver didn’t even know that part of town exists and several people gave me wrong directions. It’s Rebecca Watson’s fault!

    5 July 2012

    But I don’t blame you, it’s probably Rebecca Watson’s fault that you are all so slow. ;)

  8. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    I’ve been ready to put elevatorgate behind me for some time now. But some folks have other ideas, and forcing me to take notice of their actions, and over privileged fuckwittery. And I still haven’t got a real and cogent answer as to why a simple “don’t do that” in response to a textbook case of sexual harassment that never should have happened is over the top and castrating all men. Methinks they doth protest too much.

  9. says

    Unfortunately at some point people will become bored of her victim fetish and her credibility is going to have to stand on her actual contributions to skepticism. Thats gonna suck for her.

    Actually, it’s…people like you that suck for everyone else. Must be wonderful to have such a massive pool of privilege that you think those wimmin problems are just a victim fetish.

  10. 'Tis Himself says

    Nerd #9

    You’re missing the point that if Rebecca hadn’t said “guys, don’t do that” then PUAs would be able to harass women with impunity. But by shining a dim light on a jerk’s lame attempt to get laid, she made it impossible for any PUA to get laid at skeptic and atheist conventions.

  11. says

    Elevatorgate was by far the best thing that ever happened to RW any way you look at it. She previously couldn’t get a blog hit to save her life. Now shes been a “hot topic”, “center of controversy” who can thrive on complaining of amorphous misogony and “privelege” by spewing anecdotes.

    If by “anecdotes” you mean “real actual documented rape threats and hate mail and shit that really happened” then yeah, good point.
    And if by “victim fetish” you mean “willingness to publicly share her experiences being a target of countless misogynistic shitheads,” then whoa, you’re really on to something here.
    Also, I’m having a hard time figuring out how Elevatorgate ever became a “thing” at all if she “couldn’t get a blog hit to save her life.”
    Great comment; all it needed was a complete rewrite for accuracy.

  12. Loqi says

    Rebecca Watson made Skeptic Dude feel like he should hit the “Submit Comment” button. An unfortunate turn of events indeed.

  13. 'Tis Himself says

    Because of Rebecca Watson, I’ve never had sex with a woman or a man in Dublin, Ireland.*

    *That I’ve never been in Dublin has nothing to do with this argument.

  14. kosk11348 says

    The best analogy I’ve heard yet for understanding this situation is a fire evacuation plan. Fires are rare, yet it makes sense to have a plan in place. Continuing that analogy, here’s my rundown of the “conversation” thus far:

    FTB: “Fire evacuation plans are a good idea. We recommend that all skeptical events have one.”

    DJ Grothe: “All this talk of fires scares away attendees. Plus TAM has never, ever had a fire.”

    Stephanie Zvan: “Actually, there have been a few small fires at TAM. Remember that trash can that caught on fire?”

    DJ Grothe: “Yes, I put that fire out myself. At no time did anyone feel unsafe.”

    FTB: “Ok, but you just said…never mind. The point is, because there was no policy in place, we now have no record of the fire, no investigation into the cause of the fire, and no reason to think another fire might happen again. Are you currently training your staff to know what to do in the event of a fire?”

    DJ Grothe: “We have a robust fire evacuation plan printed in our literature. It reads: ‘TAM hates fires.'”

    FTB: “But that’s not really a plan…”

    Russell Blackford: “Is there any evidence that things burn?”

    MRAs: “Look, it’s the fire department’s job to handle fires. If you are on fire, call them.”

    FTB: “Huh? You’re saying it’s the victim’s responsibility to alert the fire department? What about the responsibility of the organizers…”

    MRAs: “#FTB bullies say TAM is infested with arsonists!”

    FTB: “What? Nobody is saying that! Arsonists do exist, sure. But we have no reason to think TAM is any worse than the general population in that respect. Look, it’s really simple…”

    Ophelia Benson: “You know, I was schedule to speak at TAM, but I just got this really weird letter explaining in great detail about what to do when I find myself in a fire at TAM. Like, seriously detailed. It described the flames singing my hair, peeling my flesh…”

    Russell Blackford: “Way to overreact to a helpful warning!”

    Thunderf00t: “I will continue to offer to light friends’ cigarettes for them and you can’t stop me!”

    Paula Kirby: “The firestasi see fires everywhere because they love to pretend they are all victims of fire, just like the Nazis.”

    FTB: “Ok, now this is just getting bizarre…”

    Harriet Hall’s T-shirt: “I feel safe from fires at TAM (even though it still doesn’t have a fire evacuation plan)”

    FTB: *sigh*

  15. Sili (I have no penis and I must jizz) says

    Elevatorgate was by far the best thing that ever happened to RW any way you look at it. She previously couldn’t get a blog hit to save her life.

    So she was invited to speak in Dublin and at CFI because she was a prominent blogger because of the controversy of her speaking in Dublin and at CFI?

    Ouch. My brain hurts.

  16. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    But by shining a dim light on a jerk’s lame attempt to get laid, she made it impossible for any PUA to get laid at skeptic and atheist conventions.

    [Yooper mode]Yeah, sure, hey.[/Yooper mode] ;)

    It must be RW giving the Redhead a diuretic today…

  17. w00dview says

    Whoever of the regulars here said that most commenters that have “skeptic”, “reason” or “rational” in their usernames are condescending, self important douchenozzles utterly unaware of their own blind spots was bang on the money.

  18. Sili (I have no penis and I must jizz) says

    It Rebecca Watson didn’t protect him, Jay Novella wouldn’t be on the SGU.

  19. says

    Paula Kirby: “The firestasi see fires everywhere because they love to pretend they are all victims of fire, just like the Nazis.”

    This wins.

  20. Onamission5 says

    @kosk11348 #17:

    That is an absolutely winning breakdown, and funny to boot.

  21. says

    As this is a Presidential election year in the USA, I’ve been blaming everything NOT connected to government on Obama. I’m not about to change that now, so I can only blame government-related things on RW.

    Like the fact that I can’t use two of my favorite apps on my current laptop because they’re too old and can’t run in a 64-bit OS. Gosh darn you Rebecca Watson!

  22. sadunlap says

    The comments at the link in the post are hilarious. They’re the best LOLs I’ve had all week.

    I hadn’t realized who was to blame for Jar Jar Binks unitl now.

  23. chigau (女性) says

    kosk11348
    Fresh garden salad and grog for you!
    (Rebecca Watson drank all my rum.)

  24. says

    Since I’m still on permanent moderation at Jason’s for hurting his man feefees by calling attention to the triggeriness of the video he posted last month, let me x-post what I said there, here:

    Rebecca Watson invented Crocs.

    Rebecca Watson makes the neighbor’s dog crap on my lawn.

    Rebecca Watson sneaks into the kitchens of fine restaurants and pees in the consommé.

  25. Antiochus Epiphanes says

    Rebecca Watson
    1.sabotaged my ceviche con atún y sandia
    2. gave me the wrong directions to Sea World
    3. has encouraged fire-ants to colonize my yard
    4. is the leading cause of spark-plug malfunction
    5. ruined Christmas in 1986 and 1993
    6. ate all of the Honey Almond Flax Go-Lean Crunch™.
    7. makes the Internet slower and causes some pages to alternatively load wonky or refresh like every five seconds, until I’m all like, fuck it, FAILBlog time.
    8. kicked Thunderf00t out of atheism
    9. invented cooties
    10. uses all the toilet-paper and never replaces the roll, much less buys any toilet-paper.

  26. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    10. uses all the toilet-paper and never replaces the roll, much less buys any toilet-paper.

    Oh, that is cruel. ;)

  27. says

    Rebecca Watson:

    *Makes me use naughty words.

    *Is the primary cause of global warming.

    *Is responsible for my leaky roof.

    *Is doing a damn bad job at managing the weather this Summer.

    *Is causing outbreaks of fertility all over the fucking place and needs to take responsbility for these 26 ratlets! Now!

  28. Gnumann, quisling of the MRA nation says

    Does all this mean Rebecca Watson makes me break blockquotes?

  29. chigau (女性) says

    We’re having a bumper crop of raspberries this year…
    wait is it only bad stuff?

  30. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Oh, RW must be responsible for commercial frozen sausage/egg/cheese biscuit breakies, where the cheese always melts long before the rest when microwaved…

  31. advancedatheist says

    Rebecca Watson makes the case for sexually segregated atheist gatherings. I kept looking for her at the Reason Rally by searching for a lone woman in the crowd with no one willing to come within a 20 foot radius of her.

    Ironically christians will spin this both ways, since they can’t seem to get their story straight about atheists’ sex lives. Traditionally the christian model of their Fantasy Atheist engages in swinging promiscuity. Yet Rebecca has supplied material for the contradictory stereotype that atheism attracts sexually yucky beta males (the majority of us guys, in other words) who have trouble finding girlfriends.

  32. Beatrice says

    Rebecca Watson told Jim Carrey that he’s funny and should try being a comedian.

  33. Tethys says

    Rebecca Watson was here in the Twin Cities, and caused a horde of japanese beetles to descend upon MY raspberries.

  34. adamgordon says

    I kept looking for her at the Reason Rally

    Kind of a weird fixation you have there, anotheridiot.

  35. Mattir says

    Rebecca Watson gave my house an infestation of wool-eating clothes moths in 1995, which I have yet to banish completely. Plus she cannot spell, since I would have been fine with woo-eating moths…

  36. says

    jonmilne: I am so fucking tired of thunderf00t’s bullshit, I don’t feel much incentive to do so. I saw that thing was what, 15 minutes long? and felt no interest at all in listening to it.

  37. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    Rebecca Watson is the reincarnation of L Ron Hubbard.

  38. says

    Hey, advancedatheist, that comment was so icky and repulsive and dishonest that the banhammer decided that you were too ugly to be within 20 virtual feet of civilized human beings, and splatted you. Not sorry! Sucks to be you!

  39. Gnumann, quisling of the MRA nation says

    jonmilne: I am so fucking tired of thunderf00t’s bullshit, I don’t feel much incentive to do so. I saw that thing was what, 15 minutes long? and felt no interest at all in listening to it.

    My usual response to people wanting me to look at YouTube vids used to be “Write it down” – but we all know how that ends.

    I guess it’s because Rebecca Watson directs all videos at YouTube…

  40. Beatrice says

    Rebecca Watson linked to Pharyngula and now I’m spending all my days here.
    Oh, wait, that one’s true. Thanks Rebecca!

  41. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Dang PZ, I’ll have to remember to keep the banhammer shield in place unless the topic and response are totally vapid.

  42. says

    PZ:

    Hey, advancedatheist, that comment was so icky and repulsive and dishonest that the banhammer decided that you were too ugly to be within 20 virtual feet of civilized human beings, and splatted you. Not sorry! Sucks to be you!

    Oh please, we all know Rebecca Watson wields the banhammer around here. (At least its no longer a case of me ‘wishing people into the cornfield’ and you obeying my least whim. Thanks, Rebecca!)

  43. Utakata says

    @Mattir, 59:

    “Rebecca Watson is the atheist Chuck Norris.”

    I see Rebecca Watson is also responsible for what went wrong with The Barrens Chat.

  44. peterhearn says

    PZ, I know you’ll never admit you had thunderf00t removed over writing a dissenting opinion. But regardless of his behavior and/or writing skills, he would still be here if his original article was in favor of your bizarre harassment policy based on no evidence.

    Had you not over reacted to his initial post I think he would would have moved on to disproving creationist claims and would be a valuable contributor to the site.

    I hate to say it, but the fact you did a complete 180 and flipped on him over such a pointless article shows that there is an emotional knee-jerk reaction going on in your mind that is completely blocking out any sense of rational/skeptical thought.

  45. jonmilne says

    PZ: I’m sorry, I genuinely did not mean to offend. There was just something about the pure smarmyness and irritating continued sexism by TF that I wanted someone well and truly awesome (a.k.a. you, or indeed someone similar affiliated with Pharyngula or the general FtB populace) to lay a glorious smackdown on it. I enjoyed your last video immensely, and I would have loved to see you (or someone else) engage in even further brilliant pwnage of Tfootinmouth again.

    But again, it was an honest mistake for me to bring this video up here. From the bottom of my heart, I apologise, and I hope I didn’t ruin your day.

    By the way, with regards to the people who criticise the comments sections of areas in FtB especially related to Pharyngula, have these people not ever thought to ask some of the many commenters here, including myself, who have been guilty of making massive faux pas arguments on this network before and are still regular or semi-regular respected contributers here?

    Admittedly, in my case, my fallacious argument was related to an argument I wished to make about how I thought the Courtier’s Reply was contradicted by certain statements that Richard Lenski made when he was ripping Conservapedia apart (I made the argument in one of the Zombie threads by the way), but when people responded to me they did it with patience and calmness and explained to me very clearly and succinctly why I was wrong with absolutely sound logic, and then I admitted my faulty logic. Of course, I’ve seen others here who have continued to give off bad arguments and then the commenters turn hostile, but it doesn’t change the nature of the rebutting comments in response, which continue to be clear and succinct with absolutely sound logic about why the opposing argument is wrong, and then those who have made the wrong arguments hold their heads up and admit their mistakes. Why can’t these people spreading the whole “FTBullies” nonsense see that?

    On a somewhat lighter note, FTBullies and Rebecca Watson, why didn’t you put the bunny back in the box? :)

    Great to talk to you all again,

    Jon

  46. Loqi says

    I see Rebecca Watson is also responsible for what went wrong with The Barrens Chat.

    And trade chat.

  47. jonmilne says

    Also, as a homage to a soon to be released and sure to be awesome movie, from the first in the trilogy:

    Common Anti-FTB Troll: You’re in hell, FTBullies. And I am the devil.
    FTBullies: You’re not the devil, you’re practice.

  48. Beatrice says

    Rebecca Watson actually wrote Thunderfoot’s first post to discredit him. And the second post. And the third. And… ok, I don’t remember how many there were. Then she made him make that video.

  49. kosk11348 says

    Thanks for highlighting my comment, PZ! (Although now I wish I had proof-read it better). It was a great to meet you are the Reason Rally.

  50. Beatrice says

    Rebecca Watson makes people forget that workplace harassment policies exist.

  51. Skeptic Dude says

    @PZ Myers

    While I have the full ire of the tribe on me, I might as well ask you a question not

    I would like to repeat a question to you that I saw asked in another thread that you did not respond to, although one or two other (comm-enters sort of did). If you really are a hard determinism, and don’t subscribe to free will, how do you justify banning people, calling them names, describing their moral definitions at length etc.. It frankly seems flatly incompatible with determinism?

  52. Loqi says

    …such a pointless article…

    I think that says all we need to know about you.

  53. ChasCPeterson says

    buhbuhWOW I just checked out the Tf00t vid.

    I love it when he strides resolutely toward the camera.

    academic integrity

    He keeps using this phrase.
    [quote Inigo Montoya here]

  54. Matt Penfold says

    Had you not over reacted to his initial post I think he would would have moved on to disproving creationist claims and would be a valuable contributor to the site.

    Dealing with creationist nonsense is pretty easy. As recent, and not so recent, events have shown, dealing with sexism and misogyny is much harder, and there Thunderfoot was firmly in “creationist” camp.

  55. sheila says

    Rebecca Watson wants to prevent the Big Bang and stop the universe from existing.

  56. Sili (I have no penis and I must jizz) says

    I would like to repeat a question to you that I saw asked in another thread that you did not respond to, although one or two other (comm-enters sort of did). If you really are a hard determinism, and don’t subscribe to free will, how do you justify banning people, calling them names, describing their moral definitions at length etc.. It frankly seems flatly incompatible with determinism?

    It provides stimuli to adjust the programming – of them and onlookers. How is this so hard to understand?

  57. says

    If you really are a hard determinism, and don’t subscribe to free will, how do you justify banning people, calling them names, describing their moral definitions at length etc.. It frankly seems flatly incompatible with determinism?

    In what way? I remember you asking this before, and I responded. I don’t remember whether you responded back.

    Determinism has no incompatibility with the concept of correction.

  58. Loqi says

    @90
    You forget that to the anti-RW crowd, everything happens in a void. There are no patterns of behavior or context.

  59. Sili (I have no penis and I must jizz) says

    Had you not over reacted to his initial post I think he would would have moved on to disproving creationist claims and would be a valuable contributor to the site.

    So you’re saying Thunderfoot is petty?

  60. Gnumann, quisling of the MRA nation says

    If you really are a hard determinism, and don’t subscribe to free will, how do you justify

    Has this one got a name? It crops up pretty often, and I feel it’s pathetic enough to warrant it’s own name. “Argumentatum ad ¡gotcha!”?

  61. Skeptic Dude says

    I hit the submit comment button mid-edit on 81. Sorry, sure thats never happened to anyone else.

    Here is what I was going for: PZ has stated that he does not believe in free will.

    But to be consistent, doesn’t damning/banning/shaming/insulting/name calling/ostracizing/excluding/feeling-superior to racists, sexists, creationists, etc., all presuppose a break in the causal link of determinism that made said people the way they are?

  62. Sili (I have no penis and I must jizz) says

    John A. Davidson was Rebecca Watson all along.

  63. Loqi says

    Determinism has no incompatibility with the concept of correction.

    And correction isn’t the only reason to remove someone from a community. If there are mass murderers out there, you throw them in prison. Even if their mass murdering habits are a product of genetics, environment, and experience and there’s no hope of correction and rehabilitation, we’d still lock them up in order to protect the rest of the community.

    Sorry, sociopaths. It might not be “your fault” that you are the way that you are (and I pity you for that), but we still need to remove you from the community.

  64. Sili (I have no penis and I must jizz) says

    Wholy Hell!

    You come back to restate the (stupid) question *after* it’s already been answered? How in the name of Spud are even able to operate a computer?

  65. says

    But to be consistent, doesn’t damning/banning/shaming/insulting/name calling/ostracizing/excluding/feeling-superior to racists, sexists, creationists, etc., all presuppose a break in the causal link of determinism that made said people the way they are?

    No, why would it?

    Again, determinism has no conflict with correction. Banning people, or making fun of them, etc, may have an effect of changing their course. Or it may simply be for the betterment of this place to weed out bad people.

    How exactly is it inconsistent? This appears to be a version of an argument against determinism regarding blaming people for things that they couldn’t be responsible for without free will.

    This isn’t about blame, or even responsibility. It’s about correcting problems.

    A robot, with no free will, can correct problems too without violating its deterministic nature.

  66. says

    So this

    Myself, I don’t believe in free will — I think it’s an obsolete concept that confuses rather than clarifies, and would rather stay out of it.

    Means PZ’s a hard determinist? I agree with him that it’s an obsolete concept. That doesn’t mean we then go through life acting like everyone is an automaton that does not respond to stimuli.

  67. Gnumann, quisling of the MRA nation says

    Yeah, we got that. Your restatement adds nothing.

    I must respectfully disagree. As Sili pointed out, it adds a whole new dimension of stupid. Quite impressive I must say.

  68. Loqi says

    I hit the submit comment button mid-edit on 81. Sorry, sure thats never happened to anyone else.

    I wasn’t commenting on the quality of the editing. I was commenting on the quality of how you communicated your ideas. Certainly there must be clearer thinking behind the words than you communicated…

    But to be consistent, doesn’t damning/banning/shaming/insulting/name calling/ostracizing/excluding/feeling-superior to racists, sexists, creationists, etc., all presuppose a break in the causal link of determinism that made said people the way they are?

    Huh. I guess not.

  69. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    Has this one got a name? It crops up pretty often,

    Yes, it’s called fatalism.

  70. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    It appears to be a form of the Idle Argument for fatalism. From Wikipedia:

    The Idle Argument was described by Origen and Cicero and it went like this:

    If it is fated for you to recover from this illness, then you will recover whether you call a doctor or not.

    Likewise, if you are fated not to recover, you will not do so whether you call a doctor or not.

    But either it is fated that you will recover from this illness, or it is fated that you will not recover.

    Therefore it is futile to consult a doctor.

    Or, therefore it is futile to engage in “damning/banning/shaming/insulting/name calling/ostracizing/excluding/feeling-superior to racists, sexists, creationists, etc.”

  71. xtog42 says

    This is just another substance free whine post designed to increase blog hits, like DJ suggested a long time ago. It’s time those of us in the larger, world-wide free-thought movement simply ignore these sexism-obsessed self-flaming derailing trolls and concern ourselves with discrimination against atheists and religious privilege. The passive aggressiveness, and the strawman generation is so thick in this post, it really does make one sorry for PZ. He is really losing a lot of credibility when he posts sad BS like this, and he is helping no one. When and if he takes this message to the larger atheist community he will be largely ignored and rightfully so.

    Essentially he and his crowd are calling us atheists immoral sexists, which would make them right at home with the religious right — it’s a charge they have been firing at the non-religious for centuries. It isn’t true when they say it, nor is it true when the PZ crowd says it. The religious right could not have created mole more effective PZ, RW and their concern troll monkeys.

    Let’s all just stop giving this “idiot” (his word) hits for attacking fellow free-thinkers, since posts like this are clearly designed for nothing but ad revenue at the expense of the free-thought movement.

  72. Gnumann, quisling of the MRA nation says

    Yes, it’s called fatalism.

    Ah, I did not make myself clear. I meant the fallacy our little doodebro made, not the precise topic of the fallacy. You know, the non-sequitur perceived dissonance (in this case banning people and determinism), therefore ¡Gotcha!.

  73. says

    I hate to say it, but the fact you did a complete 180 and flipped on him over such a pointless article shows that there is an emotional knee-jerk reaction going on in your mind that is completely blocking out any sense of rational/skeptical thought.

    Oh, you hate to say it, buuuuuuuut you’re going to anyway. *eyeroll*

    It’s ever so sweet that sexism is pointless to you, Cupcake, but some of us (those of us running about with the ladybits) have a dissenting view.

  74. says

    xtog42

    It’s time those of us in the larger, world-wide free-thought movement simply ignore these sexism-obsessed self-flaming derailing trolls and concern ourselves with discrimination against atheists and religious privilege.

    This act of ignoring of which you speak. One assumes that part of this act of ignorance would be to, oh I dunno … actually ignore it, instead of making whining comments on it? </irony>

  75. Loqi says

    Essentially he and his crowd are calling us atheists immoral sexists

    Um, no. Unless by “us” you mean you and the slimepitters, not “all atheists”. In which case, yeah.

    it’s a charge they have been firing at the non-religious for centuries.

    I don’t remember the “all atheists are sexist” charge coming from the religious right. Or anyone, really. Unless, again, you just meant you and the slimepitters, in which case I’d have to say that if it’s so obvious that even the religious right can see it, you should probably stop and rethink the way you treat women.

  76. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    I don’t know whether that is true or not, but apparently it isn’t always “debilitating.”

    Citation needed, or you are a proven liar and bullshitter.

    Essentially he and his crowd are calling us atheists immoral sexists, which would make them right at home with the religious right

    Well, are you sexists by exhibiting male privilege when it shouldn’t be exhibited at all? Like in elevators at 4:00 am without witnesses?

    Let’s all just stop giving this “idiot” (his word) hits for attacking fellow free-thinkers,

    People aren’t free thinkers until they look at the shackles of privilege, and look at the evidence that women are people too, and don’t deserve to be treated like sex objects… Where is your Free-thinking with evidence based thinking? I don’t see any. I see nothing but presupposition, just like any godbot…

  77. Beatrice says

    This is just another substance free whine post designed to increase blog hits, like DJ suggested a long time ago.

    Let’s all just stop giving this “idiot” (his word) hits for attacking fellow free-thinkers, since posts like this are clearly designed for nothing but ad revenue at the expense of the free-thought movement.

    I’m glad to see you haven’t fallen for it, genius.

  78. Skeptic Dude says

    @Gnumanan

    Oh yeah motherfucker, its the “¡Gotcha!” from hell of the intractable variety. And the attempted rebuttals are pathetic. I don’t blame PZ for hiding behind his minions rather than responding to that elephant in the room.

  79. says

    Elevatorgate was by far the best thing that ever happened to RW any way you look at it. She previously couldn’t get a blog hit to save her life. Now shes been a “hot topic”, “center of controversy” who can thrive on complaining of amorphous misogony and “privelege” by spewing anecdotes. Unfortunately at some point people will become bored of her victim fetish and her credibility is going to have to stand on her actual contributions to skepticism. Thats gonna suck for her.

    Yes Skepchick was just so obscure.

  80. A. Noyd says

    Skeptic Dude (#96)

    But to be consistent, doesn’t damning/banning/shaming/insulting/name calling/ostracizing/excluding/feeling-superior to racists, sexists, creationists, etc., all presuppose a break in the causal link of determinism that made said people the way they are?

    No. Who we are is not static; we’re always becoming who we are. And we are each tied into the chain of causality that shapes one another. Intent and individual action aren’t without effect. Shaming, banning, ostracizing and the like are just tools we use with the intent of changing other people. Not having free will just means that intent, individual action, and the beliefs behind them do not themselves originate free of causality.

  81. Gnumann, quisling of the MRA nation says

    It’s time those of us in the larger, world-wide free-thought movement simply ignore these sexism-obsessed self-flaming derailing trolls

    You’re trying to ignore yourself?

    While I can understand the impulse (I for one would much rather ignore you, but the combination of SWOTI and low-hanging snark-targets is just so darn irresistible), it’s not really recommended. It’s especially recommended that you listen to yourself when you body tells you it’s hungry, thirsty and/or needs to excrete waste (the last one is the concrete variant, not the waste that goes through your fingers and down on the keyboard, you can safely (preferably even) ignore that one).

    Also, and I know this is distasteful and you rather not want to, you should read the tripe you are writing more carefully, make an effort to understand why it is bad, and why you feel the need to write it. I won’t pack it in for you, this will be excruciatingly painful, but it might help you better your ways and become a decent human.

  82. Gnumann, quisling of the MRA nation says

    Oh yeah motherfucker, its the “¡Gotcha!” from hell of the intractable variety. And the attempted rebuttals are pathetic. I don’t blame PZ for hiding behind his minions rather than responding to that elephant in the room.

    It’s a meta-discussion about you. Your participation is neither needed nor welcome. If I wanted to address you I would, but you are not worthy of my time.

  83. Tethys says

    The religious right could not have created mole more effective PZ, RW

    Your blather is unclear. Please choose from the following options:

    A.The religious prefer bland food?

    B.The religious are breeding ROUS?

    C.The religious are engaging in espionage?

    D. You are an idiot. Please to be fucking off now.

  84. Skeptic Dude says

    My entire point in bringing up free will, is that consistency isn’t PZ’s strongest quality. See e.g. banning thunderf00t.

  85. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Mea culpa, my first blockquote in #115 was for another thread. Sorry about the dissonance.

  86. says

    The religious right could not have created mole more effective PZ, RW

    I think you accidentally the whole thing.

  87. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    See e.g. banning thunderf00t.

    The firing (not banning) was consistent. The hiring wasn’t…

  88. says

    Oh yeah motherfucker, its the “¡Gotcha!” from hell of the intractable variety. And the attempted rebuttals are pathetic. I don’t blame PZ for hiding behind his minions rather than responding to that elephant in the room.

    I still have no idea what the conflict is between determinism and banning people. But, go ahead, assert it some more.

  89. Gnumann, quisling of the MRA nation says

    My entire point in bringing up free will, is that consistency isn’t PZ’s strongest quality. See e.g. banning thunderf00t.

    Oh! That’s almost too cute! Does the little pitling really think the problem was that it’s motives wasn’t painfully obvious? Or is this a subtle piece to trolling? Pretending that the audience doesn’t understand the painfully obvious (that is a know troll technique – n’est pas?)?

  90. A. Noyd says

    Skeptic Dude (#124)

    My entire point in bringing up free will, is that consistency isn’t PZ’s strongest quality. See e.g. banning thunderf00t.

    That “inconsistency” is something you invented because you’re too aggressively stuck on misunderstanding the arguments against free will. Humans are not prevented from being intentional agents of one another’s change in a deterministic universe. Thus, to intentionally act as an agent of another’s change doesn’t make a determinist inconsistent. (Also, thunderf00t wasn’t banned.)

    (#117)

    I don’t blame PZ for hiding behind his minions rather than responding to that elephant in the room.

    That elephant? It’s the pink elephant only the drunk can see because he’s not in his right mind.

  91. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    For the fuckwits who claim TF was banned, exhibit A, this little thing called evidence. Now, shut the fuck up…

  92. Sili (I have no penis and I must jizz) says

    My entire point in bringing up free will, is that consistency isn’t PZ’s strongest quality. See e.g. banning thunderf00t.

    Well, at least Thunderfoot is consistent. I’ll give him that. He only ever talked about one thing and one thing only.

    –o–

    Skeptic Dude debates determinism like a christian.

    He can’t help it.

  93. Sili (I have no penis and I must jizz) says

    Rebecca *has* really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like

  94. Loqi says

    You said:

    Oh yeah motherfucker, its the “¡Gotcha!” from hell of the intractable variety. And the attempted rebuttals are pathetic. I don’t blame PZ for hiding behind his minions rather than responding to that elephant in the room.

    I interpreted:
    I’m going to ignore what’s carefully been explained to me and continue on as if I’m not a fuckwit.

  95. says

    My entire point in bringing up free will, is that consistency isn’t PZ’s strongest quality. See e.g. banning thunderf00t.

    The situation compelled him to act in the way he did. It is not inconsistent.

  96. says

    Daz:

    What part of “Thunderfoot has not been banned” do you find hard to understand?

    All of it, I suspect. Further evidence that being a yootuber causes compleat brain rot.

    I’m waiting for this idiocy to hit meatspace employment: “OMG, you guyz, I was banned from work!!!1!1 My boss is evil, banning me, I’ll never be able to work again!!!1

  97. Owlmirror says

    But to be consistent, doesn’t damning/banning/shaming/insulting/name calling/ostracizing/excluding/feeling-superior to racists, sexists, creationists, etc., all presuppose a break in the causal link of determinism that made said people the way they are?

    No. You’re not just positing determinism; you’re positing that people are incapable of changing or learning. At all. Ever. In response to any stimulus whatsoever.

    You may run on unchanging pre-programmed clockwork, but not everyone is as incapable of learning as you are.

    /Anti-fatalism.

  98. fredsalvador says

    Who controls the British pound?
    Who keeps the metric system down?…

    It’s time those of us in the larger, world-wide free-thought movement simply ignore these sexism-obsessed self-flaming derailing trolls

    I’m sure we’d all love to do that, but ManRightsMans and their whiny, sexism-obsessed, self-indulgent derailments are a serious threat to community cohesion, so they need to be handled whenever they rear their balding heads.

  99. Gregory Greenwood says

    I experienced some tepidation before clicking on this thread, wondering how many posts there would be before the MRAs and Thunderf00t’s champions of True Freethought(TM) turned up. I hoped that we might get in a few comments before the inevitable attempts at derailing began…

    Then I read the very first comment, and it was the concentrated essence of all the MRA whining we get from the trolls that always infest these threads.

    And it seems that the unfortunately named Skeptic Dude* has continued in much the same vein throughout the thread.

    Oh yeah motherfucker, its the “¡Gotcha!” from hell of the intractable variety. And the attempted rebuttals are pathetic. I don’t blame PZ for hiding behind his minions rather than responding to that elephant in the room.

    So, Skeptic Dude is another one that wants to get banned as some kind of perverse badger of honour, I take it?

    ——————————————–

    * It really is remarkable – almost anyone who includes sceptical, reasonable, rational/rationalist or atheist in their nym turns out to be the worst kind of offensively misogynist, transphobic, racist or homophobic troll imaginable (and sometimes manage to fulfill several of these categories at the same time). A new internet law is needed I think…

  100. Gregory Greenwood says

    ‘Badger of honour’? That should be ‘badge of honour’, in my last post.

  101. Forbidden Snowflake says

    Oh yeah motherfucker, its the “¡Gotcha!” from hell of the intractable variety. And the attempted rebuttals are pathetic. I don’t blame PZ for hiding behind his minions rather than responding to that elephant in the room.

    Asserting that “rebuttals are pathetic” instead of dealing with the arguments is what makes Skepticalism2012(tm) 50% easier to operate than previous versions. No more grueling examination of claims! Being a skeptic is now easier than ever!

  102. Tethys says

    I thought the perverse badger of honor was somehow related to xtogs religious right mole.

  103. Loqi says

    Being a skeptic is now easier than ever!

    Being a dude, however, is just as easy as it’s always been.

  104. Forbidden Snowflake says

    * It really is remarkable – almost anyone who includes sceptical, reasonable, rational/rationalist or atheist in their nym turns out to be the worst kind of

    counterexample: skeptifem

    (yes, I realize that you said “almost”)

  105. Sili (I have no penis and I must jizz) says

    It’s time those of us in the larger, world-wide free-thought movement simply ignore these sexism-obsessed self-flaming derailing trolls and concern ourselves with discrimination against atheists and religious privilege.

    And yet here you are.

    Why aren’t you at TAM with the real™ skeptics?

    Why aren’t you out there suing faith schools in the UK?

    Why are you here on an unimportant blog on the Internet whining about how we’re doing in wrong™.

    Why are you *here* while saying we should be ignored? Have you tried looking up that word in a dictionary?

  106. says

    It’s time those of us in the larger, world-wide free-thought movement

    Yes, c’mon lads, if we pull together and exclude the wimmin and their silly insistence on pointing out sexism, we’ll be grand! Yeah!

    “I’m sure we can pull together, sir.”

    Lord Vetinari raised his eyebrows. “Oh, I do hope not, I really do hope not. Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny. Free men pull in all kinds of directions.” He smiled. “It’s the only way to make progress. That, and, of course, moving with the times. Good day to you.”

  107. carlie says

    Who controls the British pound?
    Who keeps the metric system down?…

    We doooooo, we dooooooooo…

    ‘Badger of honour’?

    Oh, come now. First porcupines, now badgers, what next, nutrias?

  108. says

    Rebecca Watson gave me pneumonia! At last, I can stop taking these gut-destroying anti-biotics and post them to her instead!

  109. says

    ‘Badger of honour’? That should be ‘badge of honour’, in my last post.

    Well, it’s a little too late now. The ‘badger of honour’ is in my kitchen eating the cat food. I supose you’re going to say it’s all Rebecca Watson’s fault.

  110. Happiestsadist says

    I would also add to the OP:

    Greta Christina, Jason, many others: Also, it seems that the message board for the group hosting the convention has a serial arsonist, who openly bragged about and showed pictures of fires he started. And was seen at multiple TAMs with accelerant and a lighter.

    MRAs: Hey, he might have had perfectly reasonable uses for having that gear! Don’t judge him based on his own admitted actions and predict future behaviour based on prior evidence!

  111. A. Noyd says

    Gregory Greenwood (#147)

    ‘Badger of honour’? That should be ‘badge of honour’, in my last post.

    Well, badgers of honor would go perfectly with the porcupine crowns of persecution.

  112. says

    Hey, xtog42, how about if you toddle off to find some blog that doesn’t give a damn about women and wallow about there, and let FtB decline into irrelevancy in the absence of your ever-so-important traffic?

  113. Happiestsadist says

    Also, Rebecca Waston is why the gin keeps disappearing here, is the mastermind of the phasing out of my favourite underwear style at the stores that carried it, and is the one who taught my cat to poke me in the face when I’m trying to sleep.

  114. carlie says

    “Watson” has the same first three letters as “Watergate”… just sayin’.

  115. anat says

    Skeptic Dude (#81):

    If you really are a hard determinism, and don’t subscribe to free will, how do you justify banning people, calling them names, describing their moral definitions at length etc.. It frankly seems flatly incompatible with determinism?

    Hard determinism doesn’t mean people do not make choices, nor does it mean that they do not respond to environmental inputs when they do so, it only means their choices aren’t made ‘freely’ (whatever that means). If negative response to bad behavior increases the chance an offender (or even a bystander who is observing the interaction) to behave better in the future then it is a good idea to use such negative responses to bad behavior.

    If an algorithm gives undesirable output it should be reprogrammed so it gives more desirable output. Modify analogy as much as needed to suit the circumstances.

  116. 'Tis Himself says

    fredsalvator #144

    Who controls the British pound?

    If you want just one name, it’s Sir Mervyn King, Governor of the Bank of England and Chairman of the Monetary Policy Committee.

  117. Gregory Greenwood says

    I thought the perverse badger of honor was somehow related to xtogs religious right mole.

    Well, they have been spending an awful lot of time together lately…

    counterexample: skeptifem

    (yes, I realize that you said “almost”)

    Apologies to Skeptifem. Still, I think that there is a notably high incidence of prat-ery among people who include such words in their nym, exceptions like Skeptifem acknowledged.

    Badgers?

    We doan need no steenkeeng BADGERS!

    Thems be fightin’ words…

    Oh, come now. First porcupines, now badgers, what next, nutrias?

    Its a cute, furry invasion!

    Well, it’s a little too late now. The ‘badger of honour’ is in my kitchen eating the cat food. I supose you’re going to say it’s all Rebecca Watson’s fault.

    Naturally. That; global warming, habitat degradation, ground water pollution, and her most serious crime – hurting teh man fee-fees (IMPORTANT)!

    … Oh, and the fact that apparently post elevatorgate no one can have sex anymore (truefax), so you know – the eventual collpase of all civilisation into a post-apcalyptic nightmare-scape.

    Well, badgers of honor would go perfectly with the porcupine crowns of persecution.

    In matters of fashion, it is always important to coordinate. Just because one is an offensively misogynist troll, that doesn’t mean that one cannot be a well dressed offensively misogynist troll…

    Oh…I like Badger of honour.

    Then, by jove, a perverse Badger of honour you shall have!

    ;-P

  118. anat says

    Caerie (#103)

    That doesn’t mean we then go through life acting like everyone is an automaton that does not respond to stimuli.

    Nah, we are automata that respond to stimuli.

  119. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    My entire point in bringing up free will, is

    not very clear to you, is it. You don’t even understand the counterarguments, do you.

    Here, why don’t you try pointing to an argument that makes your case about the implications of the lack of free will. At #106 I gave a clear essay from Thomas W. Clark. You can either deal with it or point to something else. Take your pick.

  120. says

    Just perfect. Haven’t laughed so hard in weeks.

    And it is just amazing how the mere mention of Rebecca acts like some irresistable Batsignal to slimepitters and MRAs worldwide. What would they ever do without her? Knocking over old ladies in the street, presumably.

  121. The twelfth vote says

    Hey, xtog42, how about if you toddle off to find some blog that doesn’t give a damn about women and wallow about there, and let FtB decline into irrelevancy in the absence of your ever-so-important traffic?

    Would that be the blogging version of Going Galt?

  122. TheBlackCat says

    Oh, come now. First porcupines, now badgers, what next, nutrias?

    No, pangolins of course.

  123. says

    Ermine Johnson is right! We don’t need no steenkin’ badgers! Clean that badger up right now. It’s not at all nice leaving the poor thing in such a state.

    Rebecca Watson made me say that. Also, she was the one who spilled MRAcrap on the badger, AND she made my cat barf on the hall carpet in the middle of the night.

  124. Happiestsadist says

    Awwww! They are, ixchel! Look a lot like beavers, which I also think are pretty nifty.

  125. Gnumann, quisling of the MRA nation says

    What would they ever do without her? Knocking over old ladies in the street, presumably.

    In other words: Rebecca Watson is to blame for the spiralling costs of pensions and care for the elderly.

  126. Robert M. says

    I always the the lyric was “Who controls the British Crown?” Damn you Rebecca Watson!

  127. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    a coypu of courage to go with your badger of honour

  128. Happiestsadist says

    Rebecca Watson told me I’d lose weight if I ate nothing but Kalteen bars.

    Rebecca Watson’s hair is so big colourful because it’s full of secrets.

    Rebecca Watson? If only you knew how mean she really is… You’d know that I’m not allowed to wear hoop earrings, right? Yeah! Two years ago she told me hoops earrings were *her* thing and I wasn’t allowed to wear them anymore. And then for Hannakuh my parents got this pair of really expensive white gold hoops and I had to pretend like I didn’t even like them and… it was so sad. And you know she cheats on Aaron? Yes, every Thursday he thinks she’s doing SAT prep but really she’s hooking up with Shane Oman in the projection room above the auditorium! I never told anybody that because I am *such* a good friend!

    Rebecca Watson told me to stop trying to make “fetch” happen.

    Rebecca Watson… How do I begin to explain Rebecca Watson?
    Rebecca Watson is flawless.
    I hear her hair’s insured for $10,000.
    I hear she does car commercials… in Japan.
    Her favorite movie is Varsity Blues. One time she met John Stamos on a plane…
    And he told her she was pretty.
    One time she punched me in the face… it was awesome.

  129. Happiestsadist says

    You know, bertrand, linking to wikipedia doesn’t actually explain *why* it’s a false equivalence. You’re just kind of brining up wikipedia as like the saddest ever argument from authority ever.

    And you’re getting called on it by someone who’s drunk to the point of mostly only talking in Mean girls quotes. Look at your life, and your choices, bertrandrussell.

  130. Gregory Greenwood says

    Did you know that Rebecca Watson forced Brain Herbert to attempt to continue the Dune saga?

    Oh, and she personally wrote all those “deus ex machina” cop-outs at the end of Sandworms of Dune

  131. screechymonkey says

    Rebecca let the dogs out.

    AND then she wrote that awful song about it.

    Saying that you have to believe in free will to render moral judgments is like saying that you have to be a dualist to use words like “think” and “believe” — like, OMG, if you don’t believe in a disembodied mind-spirit, then what does the thinking?

  132. jackrawlinson says

    Well, it’s pretty clear that you people don’t need a fire safety plan. Because you just love torching all those bridges, don’t you? You seem to positively revel in it.

  133. 'Tis Himself says

    jackrawlinson,

    Do you have a point or are you just showing you’re an asshole?

  134. Happiestsadist says

    Jackrawlinson: So, do we have confirmation that you are, in fact, Elevator Guy?

  135. Happiestsadist says

    That is a tragedy that should not happen to any burrito, Audley. All burritos deserve loving homes in happy tummies. Especially mine.

  136. says

    Well, it’s pretty clear that you people don’t need a fire safety plan. Because you just love torching all those bridges, don’t you? You seem to positively revel in it.

    Alright, this analogy is breaking down. It wouldn’t make sense unless we, those who are in favor of sexual harassment policies, were going around sexually harassing people en masse.

  137. Happiestsadist says

    She is also responsible for my having two different, yet equally delicious gins in the cupboard. She magicked them there as a reward for her FemiStasi minions.

    Now I want a burrito.

  138. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Rebecca Watson mixed the lime with the coconut and drank it all up.

  139. Utakata says

    @Happiestsadist, 190:

    The real Bertrand Russell never used Wikipedia in his quotes.

  140. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Rebecca Watson has been been alive forever,
    And she wrote the very first song.
    She put the words and the melodies together,
    She is music,
    And she write the songs.

    She write the songs that make the whole world sing.
    She write the songs of love and special things.
    She write the songs that make the MRA’s cry.
    She write the songs, She write the songs.

  141. Tethys says

    hey jack,

    We didn’t start the fire.
    No, we didn’t light it, but we tried to fight it.

  142. Mattir says

    Rebecca Watson wrote the opinion in Citizens United.

    Rebecca Watson caused the obesity epidemic.

    Rebecca Watson turns traffic lights red every time I’m running late for work.

  143. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Tethys, that is because Rebecca Watson started the fire.

    [Meh! I detest that song. It is a humorless rewrite of It's The End Of The World As We Know It(And I Feel Fine)]

  144. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    The senior council of Wolfram & Hart fears Rebecca Watson.

  145. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Rebecca Watson is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma.

  146. chigau (女性) says

    If Rebecca Watson is really jackrawlinson, she was alone in the elevator.
    *scary organ music*

  147. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Here’s a little news for you all
    The Walrus was Rebecca Watson

  148. Ogvorbis: Dogmaticus sycophantus says

    Did Rebecca Watson invent the Southern Strategy for the GOP?

  149. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Rebecca Watson also ran Strom Thurmond’s Dixiecrat campaign for President that Trent Lott so admired.

  150. Tethys says

    Janine

    I suspected Rebecca of torching the bridge to jack rawlinson, and she went back in time to ghostwrite songs for Billy Joel and Barry Manilow.

    Hopefully jack is under the bridge when it collapses, like a proper troll.
    ___

    I didn’t know Steve Martin wrote an atheist hymn

  151. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Rebecca Watson said, “Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius.”

  152. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Rebecca Watson rode a tank
    Held a General’s rank
    When the Blitzkrieg raged
    And the bodies stank

  153. fredsalvador says

    We doooooo, we dooooooooo…

    If you want just one name, it’s Sir Mervyn King, Governor of the Bank of England and Chairman of the Monetary Policy Committee.

    You’re both wrong – it’s REBECCA WATSON!

    She keeps Atlantis off the maps and the martians under wraps too. And she had me murdered when I revealed lodge secrets during a police interview.

  154. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    It was Rebecca Watson who came, saw and conquered.

  155. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Strangely enough, Julius Caesar’s last words were, “Et tu, Rebecca?”.

  156. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    It was Rebecca Watson who taught Attila how to wage war.

  157. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    I am he as you are he as you are me
    And we are all Rebecca Watson

  158. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Rebecca Watson, you maniac! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you to hell!

  159. Pteryxx says

    Rebecca Watson domesticated peas. And horses.

    And cats. All kittens everywhere are Rebecca Watson’s fault.

  160. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    With a purposeful grimace and a terrible sound
    She pulls the spitting high tension wires down

    Helpless people on a subway train
    Scream for God as she looks in on them

    She picks up a bus and he throws it back down
    As she wades through the buildings toward the center of town

    Oh no, they say, she’s got to go
    Go go Rebecca Watson, yeah
    Oh no, there goes Tokyo
    Go go Rebecca Watson, yeah

  161. A. R says

    Rebecca Watson went back in time and invented the Patriarchy so she could suppress and demean teh menzz!!!

  162. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Rebecca Watson cyt off Vincent Van Gogh’s ear.

    She also instructed Mr Blonde about what to do with the cop.

  163. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Rebecca Watson created The Typo Monster out of spare syllables.

  164. A. R says

    Rebecca Watson put the tribbles in the quadrotriticale!

    This also means that Rebecca Watson tried to kill Captain Kirk (according to DS9)!

  165. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    It was Rebecca Watson who taught the Catholic Church how to make castrati.

  166. Mattir says

    Rebecca Watson wrote 50 Shades of Gray.

    (Also, Janine, I am definitely saving that for torturing the DaughterSpawn when she gets back from Boy Scout camp. It will make a nice follow up to torturing her with this work of art, which is how I woke her up at Women in Secularism.)

    Rebecca Watson made me a bad mother.

  167. Pteryxx says

    Rebecca Watson created The Typo Monster out of spare syllables.

    …No… it cannot be! Rebecca Watson IS THE MIGHTY TPYOS! *genuflects and offers all mispelinggs*

  168. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    It was Rebecca Watson who taught Khan how to play chess.

  169. Mattir says

    Rebecca Watson put the bomp in the bomp-bomp-.bomp-ba-bomp.

    Rebecca Watson is the house mother of the C Street group,

  170. Arkady says

    Rebecca Watson infects tissue-culture cells with mycoplasma. That’s right, she makes CANCER ill!

    Rebecca Watson is why PCRs fail

    Rebecca Watson is why my faculty currently doesn’t have a working vending machine

    (loving all the geek references! sadly could only think of science ones, labwork-on-the-brain…)

  171. says

    Rebecca Watson beat me up, stole my lunch money, stepped on my glasses, ran my pants up the flagpole, tied the laces of my tennis shoes together, then threw them over a telephone wire, way up there… way too high for me to reach.

    Then she rode my brand new two-wheeler into the lake.

  172. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Also, Mattir, if you want more tacky songs from the seventies, I will be happy to suggest more.

    *evil grin*

  173. Mattir says

    Rebecca Watson is an other one of Jon Kyle’s #notinendedasafactualstatement -s.

  174. A. R says

    Rebecca Watson killed the Dinosaurs (Yep, she’s an asteroid too. Must be some sort of shapeshifter)

  175. A. R says

    Rebecca Watson is that fucking bacterial protein that keeps fucking up my Westerns!!!!!!!!

  176. A. R says

    Rebecca Watson is a mole from Fox News, sent to destroy atheism from within

    You realize this is going to show up as a legitimate discussion on the slimepit, tight?

    Anyway, Rebecca Watson ate my sammich.

  177. Akira MacKenzie says

    (Here’s an obscure one.)

    Rebecca Watson is the Goddess of the Pale Bone.

  178. says

    Rebecca Watson left the cake out in the rain.
    I don’t know if I can take it,
    It took so long to bake it.
    And I’ll never have that recipe again.
    OH NOOOOOOO
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    @Janine:

    She called me up late that night
    She said “Joe, don’t come over.”
    So I hopped in my car and went right over…

    When I read your link text, my first thought was that you were linking to “I’m Not Lisa.”

  179. varys says

    I really used to enjoy reading atheist blogs / watching stuff on youtube, but this whole “thing” that’s been going on for the last year or so is really incredibly off putting. I understand that some of you think it’s really important, but it’s a lot like a really self-conscious person constantly reminding you of their inadequacies.

  180. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Rebecca Watson is responsible for telomere shortening. That’s right, because of her you gotta die!

  181. says

    Janine:

    I am he as you are he as you are me
    And we are all Rebecca Watson

    I know you know what you know
    But you should know by now that you’re not Rebecca Watson

  182. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    Oh gee, I sure hope we don’t drive varys off with this whole “women” “thing.”
    How will we ever live without hir support?

  183. says

    I really used to enjoy reading atheist blogs / watching stuff on youtube, but this whole “thing” that’s been going on for the last year or so is really incredibly off putting.

    If indeed the case is that, up with this you shouldn’t for another minute put.

    That better be Richard Harris, feralboy12!

    There may be other versions; I, however, will never acknowledge another.
    There can be only one.

  184. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    You guys are awful to be around.

    See what you did now? You have hurt varys’s delicate fee-fees! Don’t you just feel terrible!

  185. Akira MacKenzie says

    Here’s a thought varys, if you don’t come on here to complain “I used to like it here until you started talking about the yucky girl stuff,” we won’t point out that your being a passive-aggressive, tone-trolling, piece of shit.

    OK?

  186. varys says

    @292,

    How about you just accept it as an honest opinion from someone who actually used to like reading these blogs, instead of flipping out and being an absolute dick about it.

    No? Too difficult for you?

  187. Akira MacKenzie says

    Forgive the spelling errors in the last post. Grand mal stupidity, such as varys’, makes one forget to proofread.

  188. Mattir says

    Rebecca Watson is the reason several of my posts here were first made on Lousy Canuck, by people other than me. Rebecca Watson steals my thoughts.

    Rebecca Watson broke varys’s Internet so that it consists solely of Pharyngula. Xe literally cannot get to any other website.

  189. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Rebecca Watson is Your Mother and she is holding Moltar hostage.

  190. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    When no one was looking, Rebecca Watson took forty cakes. She took 40 cakes.
    That’s as many as four tens.
    And that’s terrible.

  191. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    How about you just accept it as an honest opinion from someone who actually used to like reading these blogs, instead of flipping out and being an absolute dick about it.

    The fact that it’s an honest opinion doesn’t make it any less passive-aggressive bullshit.

  192. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    If you an actual regular reader, varys, you would know what most of us think of the use of dick as an insult.

    Go to sleep in a bed of dead porcupines.

  193. varys says

    @300,

    I’m sorry I didn’t refer to the special list of Janine sanction insults, I’ll make a note.

  194. Akira MacKenzie says

    You come in here to flounce and tone troll and you expect us to respect your opinion, much less consider it “honest?”

    Fuck off.

  195. Mattir says

    Rebecca Watson put Zul in my fridge.

    Rebecca Watson is the reason Charlotte’s Web did not win a Newbery Medal.

    She is also the reason Jorge Luis Borges did not win a Nobel Prize for literature,

  196. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says


    I’m sorry I didn’t refer to the special list of Janine sanction insults, I’ll make a note.

    Liar, liar, goats on fire

  197. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    Ooh! Rebecca Watson is why Buffy never won an Emmy, not even for “The Body.”

    But it’s worse than that – Rebecca Watson convinced Joss Whedon to make “The Body” in the first place.
    That’s right, y’all. Rebecca Watson killed Joyce.

  198. Jessa says

    varys:

    I really used to enjoy reading atheist blogs / watching stuff on youtube, but this whole “thing” that’s been going on for the last year or so is really incredibly off putting.

    If by “thing” you mean “the horribly depressing realization that a non-trivial number of skeptics are willing to defend sexist attitudes and behaviors”, then yes, I agree that it is incredibly off-putting.

    But I’m pretty sure that’s not what you meant.

  199. carlie says

    Rebecca Watson peed on my rug!

    Oh yeah? Rebecca Watson stole my rug.

    And it’s a shame. That rug really tied the room together.

  200. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    I’m sorry I didn’t refer to the special list of Janine sanction insults, I’ll make a note.

    And I will repeat myself, fuckface, if you were a regular reader, you would know this is not my fucking sanctioned list.

    You are not honest.

  201. Mattir says

    Rebecca Watson write chick tracts and persuades her minions to leave them in lieu of tips at diners.

  202. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    Rebecca Watson shot a whole bunch of adventurers in the knee, destroying their dreams. Many of them now have prestigious careers as town guards, but they have never fully gotten over the bitterness and disappointment Rebecca Watson caused them.

  203. mythbri says

    Rebecca Watson is Luke’s father.

    Rebecca Watson is Keyser Soze.

    Rebecca Watson made Soylent Green out of people.

    Rebecca Watson was a ghost the whole time!

    Rebecca Watson is a Bloodbender.

  204. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Rebecca Watson broke my homemade jam by the civic hall.

  205. chigau (女性) says

    Seriously, varys.
    You post an insulting comment and expect to be treated politely?

  206. Mattir says

    Rebecca Watson broke Dale Earnhardt’s neck and made it look like a racing accident.

  207. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Hmmm, again with linky goodness for the youngn’s….

    Rebecca Watson broke my homemade jam by the civic hall.

  208. Mattir says

    Rebecca Watson killed the Equal Rights Amendment. As part of her Ineffable Plan™.

  209. tonyinbatavia says

    Rebecca Watson named her daughter Porsche and called Otto out on his lie about the CIA.

  210. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Rebecca Watson drinks milk straight out of the carton. :(

    You are conjuring the ghosts of memories of the Rookie.

  211. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Rebecca Watson is the boot to the face of the world, forever.

  212. Jessa says

    Mattir:

    Rebecca Watson skinny-dipped in the Tidal Basin with Wilbur Mills.

    Fun fact: I-630, the east-west artery through Little Rock, is still called the Wilbur Mills Freeway.

  213. Mattir says

    It’s of my great regrets that I never heard Mills speak in AA – he sobered up and was apparently a pretty amazing guy and a wonderful speaker.

  214. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    I crouched patiently in that quiet grove for nearly an hour. The butterfly, brilliant in color and so rare in this part of the country, fluttered and floated among the trees, nearly refusing to land. Finally, my patience was rewarded. The butterfly perched gracefully on the jagged edge of a rock, only a few feet in front of me. I crept toward it with the stealth of a cat, my camera steady, my finger resting carefully on the shutter release button, my whole body tensed in anticipation of that perfect shot. Then, at the last possible second…

    Rebecca Watson photobombed it.

  215. Anri says

    Rebecca Watson is the reason that Ponies will end someday.

    Rebecca Watson stole the Silmarils.

    Rebecca Watson is the reason there will never be a sequel to Jet Set Radio Future.

  216. Anri says

    Oh, wait, just to date myself further:
    Rebecca Watson is the reason Bubblegum Crash sucked.

    (Hey, given my ‘nym…)

  217. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    You have to ask, Mattir?

    Bear!

    They are godless killing machines!

  218. Mattir says

    Rebecca Watson was one of the kids on Barney. She was also the vacuum cleaner in Teletubbies.

  219. Jessa says

    Rebecca Watson didn’t help with the Shake ‘n Bake, despite her claims otherwise.

  220. Mattir says

    Rebecca Watson has made me sleepy so that I have to quit this wonderful thread. (Showing The Other Mr, Mattir the Mormons dressing like this video was worth the whole evening of play!)

  221. dysomniak, darwinian socialist says

    Rebecca Watson made #FTBullies recycle all their pop culture references from twitter.

  222. cyberCMDR says

    Rebecca Watson dropped the Thread on Pern

    Rebecca Watson invented Snuggies

    Rebecca Watson stole the Elder Wand

    Rebecca Watson killed Dumbledore

    Rebecca Watson is Nehemiah Scudder

  223. hypatiasdaughter says

    Rebecca Watson lead the conspiracy (along with Ophelia, PZ, Thunderf00t and Paula Kirby) to produce the absolute funniest posts on the intertubes: the FtB tweets and this thread.

  224. The twelfth vote says

    You guys have so missed the real point. What about the men? WHAT ABOUT THE MEN? And their problems and stuff.

  225. hypatiasdaughter says

    Rebecca Watson invented karaoke.
    Rebecca Watson wrote the script for Prometheus.
    Rebecca Watson gave my cat hairballs.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Geez, this is addictive.

  226. jemby5 says

    The fire analogy doesn’t hold up because you are comparing a natural hazard whose consequences are objective, demonstrable, and measurable to a human behavior and the subsequent subjective interpretation of said behavior.

    The definition of harassment is murky at best and mostly depends on ones’ perception. Basically, the plan being proposed makes Big Brother go private. Anyone with an axe to grind can claim harassment on anyone else just by virtue of their perception.

    That said, I support the plan because we are at the point of no return. There has been too much talk about this issue/non-issue for no action to be taken. However, let the buyer beware. The first time someone (a guy) gets asked to tone it down or stop said behavior based on “the plan,” a youtube video will pop up and more in fighting will ensue.

  227. dysomniak, darwinian socialist says

    The first time someone (a guy) gets asked to tone it down or stop said behavior based on “the plan,” a youtube video will pop up and more in fighting will ensue.

    Good. The more DEEEP RIIIIFFFTSSS with the MRAssholes the better. Seriously, why should any rational, progressive person care about alienating that sort of filth?

  228. mythbri says

    @A.R

    There are things that go too far.

    Ahem.

    Rebecca gave Michael Bay the idea to have Bumblebee pee on John Turturro.

  229. chigau (女性) says

    Most work-place harassment policies that I have encountered are very specific, not murky at all.

  230. carlie says

    The first time someone (a guy) gets asked to tone it down or stop said behavior based on “the plan,” a youtube video will pop up and more in fighting will ensue.

    You do realize that most other large cons have harassment policies, yes? Where are all the youtube videos of poor men getting attacked due to those policies?

  231. mythbri says

    Rebecca Watson was the one-armed man.

    Rebecca Watson killed Batman’s parents.

    I looked into the abyss, and I saw Rebecca Watson.

  232. weakswimmer says

    Rebecca Watson convinced J.D. Salinger to make Holden Caulfield an asshat.

    Rebecca Watson keeps saving the Daleks while the Doctor loses everything.

    Rebecca Watson is wrecking havoc on my family’s sinuses.

    Rebecca Watson’s cobalt eyes are the secret forest pools of Finlandia.

  233. says

    Anyone with an axe to grind can claim harassment on anyone else just by virtue of their perception.

    Pardon? Either you’re arguing that they’re making false reports because of the axe to grind, or they’re basing the report on a (implied possibly mistaken) perception of harassment. Which is it?

    Not that it matters; either way you’re avoiding the issue by proposing hypothetical extremes.

  234. direlobo says

    Has anyone mentioned the Hindenburg yet? I think Rebecca Watson caused that as well…

  235. jemby5 says

    Actually most work place harassment policies are based on quid pro quo and depend on the perception of the plaintiff.

    I enjoy the emotional charge this topic evokes in anyone remotely invested in the conversation. A little comment goes a long way, and its provided some entertaining in fighting with TF vs P.Z. We got some new memes like “elevatorgate” out of it.

    P.Z. and T.F. are two grown men, both research scientists, having a youtube/blog battle over policy minutia. These people write grant proposals and publish studies in peer reviewed journals. Between their conversations with grad students and school of science deans, they lean into their laptops to post the latest installations of their flame wars.

    I haven’t been this entertained since…. elevatorgate actually.

  236. Ariaflame, BSc, BF, PhD says

    Oh look, slimepit jemby5 is back. Trolling trolling trolling. So basically you’re just in it for the lulz since you are privileged and have no actual horse in the race. You don’t get harassed, or fear for your safety in public, or even non-public places. Well bully for you. I really hope that continues. But I want for people who don’t have that privilege to have some places where they don’t get harassed, or if they do, they have people backing them up and discouraging, or removing, the harassers.

    You are Number 6.

    Rebecca Watson is Number 1.

  237. says

    Flame war, that is also a term that is emotionally charged, just like troll. When a discussion is called a “flame war”, suddenly it loses importance… but should it?

    Is the topic not important? I would say it is. One side is largely interested in removing discomfort of women from skeptic conventions. The other side is very interested in making sure no outsider gets the idea that there is a sexual harassment issue that is bigger among atheists and/or skeptics. Of course we have the bunch of idiots that add vitrol to the discussion by name calling feminazis, posting non-sense, calling out the misandrists and the misogynists, dogma users, etc, etc and etc.

    But overall I think a harassment policy is a good idea.

  238. says

    Rebecca Watson has all the selfish genes.

    And she made Richard Dawkins look bad by forcing him to comment on a topic where he is pretty clueless!

  239. ladyh42 says

    She also instructed Mr Blonde about what to do with the cop.

    Rebecca Watson shot Mr Pink.”

    I shit you not 20 minutes ago I had never seen that movie and wouldn’t have got the joke. Hubby and I just finished watching it.

  240. Lofty says

    Blimey. This Rebecca Watson must be one totally awesome 100% cool peoples to do all of this!!!!!!

    Erm, Q, what didn’t she do?

  241. TheBlackCat says

    Rebecca Watson made the Judge Dredd movie.

    Rebecca Watson wrote Timecube.

    Rebecca Watson let Ganondorf into the sacred land.

    Rebecca Watson killed Kenny.

    Rebecca Watson came up with the over-the-shoulder scenes in Other M.

    Rebecca Watson nuked the site from orbit, since it was the only way to be sure.

    Rebecca Watson killed Mr. Boddy in the library with a candlestick.

    Rebecca Watson killed the sequel to Loom.

  242. Gnumann, quisling of the MRA nation says

    Rebecca Watson taught Jembynumbers how to use a computer and set them loose on the world.

  243. jemby5 says

    The blame-Rebecca gag is P.Z.’s answer to the refute-an-argument-P.Z.-never-made campaign right?

    Both are somewhat of a Chuck Norris rip off. Neither are particularly funny or ironic. You can’t force memes they have to be born organically.

    As for The Plan, I believe I’ve said that I support it. However, tell me what you girls [gender inclusive] think of the fallowing contention:

    All peoples’ feelings are fair game and have no right to be protected.

  244. Gnumann, quisling of the MRA nation says

    Rebecca Watson made jembynumbers think that we care about their opinions and that they should share.

  245. bastionofsass says

    I know for a fact that Rebecca Watson goes to every production of Peter Pan in the world and refuses to clap to save Tinkerbell.

    She especially enjoys not-clapping at elementary school productions where she’s been heard to yell, “I do not believe in fairies! They’re not real! But if they were real, I’d hope Tinkerbell dies!” And then she laughs a really mean laugh when all the children start crying.

  246. Owlmirror says

    You can’t force memes they have to be born organically.

    Rebecca Watson forced the Blame-Rebecca-Watson meme. (Ooh! Self reference!)

  247. Gnumann, quisling of the MRA nation says

    Jembynumbers: You are not allowed to play!

    (Note the lack of phrases like “I’m sorry” or “unfortunately”)

    Now, go away!

  248. jemby5 says

    Rebecca Watson made me watch the two PW’d, pandering crotch goblins on the skepchick panel and the Novella brothers’ jokes on SGU.

  249. Owlmirror says

    Rebecca Watson said this to jemby5:

    You look like you're going to spend your life having one epiphany after another, always thinking you've finally figured out what's holding you back, and how you can finally be productive and creative and turn your life around.
    But nothing will ever change. That cycle of mediocrity isn't due to some obstacle. It's who you are.
    The thing standing in the way of your dreams. . .
    . . . is that the person having them is you.

  250. jemby5 says

    Rebecca Watson said Jane Goodall has a good sense on SGU of making me want to come through the fiber optic cables and go Jake Lamotta on her.

  251. dysomniak, darwinian socialist says

    Rebecca Watson made jemby post:

    Comment by jemby5 blocked. [unkill]​[show comment]

  252. jemby5 says

    Its fucking official, I love this meme. And god damn it I love Rebecca Watson…

  253. Wowbagger, Deputy Vice-President (Silencing) says

    Rebecca Watson made PZ ban jemby5 and remove his posts.

    [waits patiently]

  254. Owlmirror says

    Rebecca Watson made jemby5’s codpiece give him an uncomfortable itchy rash, and make him feel more inadequate than ever.

  255. dysomniak, darwinian socialist says

    Rebecca Watson made me peek behind the killfile out of morbid curiosity. Apparently she also led jembo to believe that quoting someone – with a link to the source – is plagiarism. Praise be to the Watson, for she hath blessed us with much irony this eve through her unwitting servant jambi.

  256. jemby5 says

    Rebecca Watson made me fantasize about putting duck tape over her mouth, tying her up in my trunk, and chasing her through the woods with a hammer…

    That should do it. It has been fun and I will be back…reincarnated.

  257. Forbidden Snowflake says

    Rebecca Watson made jemby5 chase her through the woods with a hammer while she was somewhere else altogether.

  258. Beatrice says

    Rebecca Watson gave jemby5 a wedgie. After emptying a tube of superglue down the back of his pants.

    (Now that would explain the hate)

  259. Wowbagger, Deputy Vice-President (Silencing) says

    Can’t sleep, Rebecca Watson will eat me.
    Can’t sleep, Rebecca Watson will eat me.
    Can’t sleep, Rebecca Watson will eat me.

  260. says

    Rebecca Watson made me prone to having blackouts.

    Rebecca Watson set Discord free.

    Rebecca Watson suddenly creation of Harry Potter’s gaming board of much guessing on fire.

    Rebecca Watson made me prone to having blackouts.

    Rebecca Watson has a framed picture of a spoon.

    Rebecca Watson made me prone to having blackouts.

  261. Sophia, Michelin-starred General of the First Mediterranean Iron Chef Batallion says

    Rebecca Watson n’est pas une pipe.

    I used to be Rebecca Watson, then I got an arrow through the knee…

  262. says

    Rebecca Watson ate my balls!

    …wait, no, that was Chewbacca. Then Rebecca Watson ate his.

    (Anyone else remember that meme from the paleolithic internet?)

  263. Amblebury says

    Rebecca Watson has an apostrophe gun. It’s her that fire’s them in all the wrong place’s.

  264. Wowbagger, Deputy Vice-President (Silencing) says

    [where're are the slimepitters?]

    They aren’t on Twitter – well, if they are, they aren’t using the #FTBullies hashtag.

  265. Wowbagger, Deputy Vice-President (Silencing) says

    They aren’t posting using the #FTBullies hashtag in their tweets is what I meant.

  266. shotsick says

    There is no real danger to women at these conventions. In fact I venture there is less risk to a women atten

    Convention staffers are not qualified nor do they have the authority to investigate, collect evidence, and decipher truth from deception in interviews. These are jobs for law enforcement. Any enforcement of rules at a convention needs to be done by the facilitators of the event, namely hotel security.

    I think the plan attempts to list actions that will get attendees kicked out of the convention which I do not have a problem with. Every organization or event has a code of conduct. TAM and other events should be no different.

    However, many members of FTB appear to have dug their trenches deep on this issue. I’ve read through this entire thread and I notice that anyone not in your trench draws immediate fire. I’m not talking about the trolls. Although, anyone who does not buy in wholesale gets branded as one.

  267. says

    They aren’t posting using the #FTBullies hashtag

    Maltseva is. Blackford is. Hale is. Drescher is.

    At least in my twitter feed.

  268. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    However, many members of FTB appear to have dug their trenches deep on this issue. I’ve read through this entire thread and I notice that anyone not in your trench draws immediate fire. I’m not talking about the trolls. Although, anyone who does not buy in wholesale gets branded as one.

    Ever notice those arguing for no code of conduct never present any evidence that they aren’t needed, just their opinions they aren’t needed. Which is why they draw fire. They aren’t arguing honestly and with evidence. They wish to impose their opinions on those who look at the evidence. Pay attention to such distinctions. Happens with creationsists, godbots, and anyone who ignores evidence. Nothing but an argument from authority, with them the authority.

  269. carlie says

    Convention staffers are not qualified nor do they have the authority to investigate, collect evidence, and decipher truth from deception in interviews. These are jobs for law enforcement. Any enforcement of rules at a convention needs to be done by the facilitators of the event, namely hotel security.

    Again, what’s being discussed isn’t any different than policies that workplaces and conventions everywhere already have in place and have had in place for years. You people are acting as if this is a daring new untested idea rather than standard practice.

  270. shotsick says

    @ Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Honestly I haven’t seen an abundance of evidence (none at all actually) presented from either side. However, I you seem to hold the same rigid dogma of the people you are indicting. You immediately categorized people who disagree with your position as collectively arguing from authority.

    First of all, what specific claim are they making that you believe is an argument from authority.

    On a side note, I’m new to FTB. Why does everyone feed the Trolls here? I’m used to Trolls on Youtube and the minute they don’t get a response, they’re gone. That one asshole who dropped the C-bomb on RW was clearly trying to get a reaction from everyone, and everyone obliged him.

  271. shotsick says

    @carlie

    Did you not read my post? I agree that there should be a plan. I said that didn’t I?

  272. shotsick says

    @carlie

    Also, who is “you people?” Please just address my points not the points of those you think I am aligned with.

  273. Wowbagger, Deputy Vice-President (Silencing) says

    Maltseva is. Blackford is. Hale is. Drescher is.

    At least in my twitter feed.

    Huh? Where are you looking?

    None of those three are posting tweets with that hashtag in them. I’ve got a real-time hashtag search open and there’s nothing from any of those four. Maltseva’s last tweet was an hour ago; Blackford’s last one with the hashtag was yesterday. Hale doesn’t appear to have ever used it. Don’t know about Drescher.

  274. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Honestly I haven’t seen an abundance of evidence (none at all actually) presented from either side.

    Then you have missed the first 5000+ plus posts of us discussing the issue, with evidence presented. So, there is a consensus here that a code of conduct is a good thing. Where is any evidence that it isn’t?

    First of all, what specific claim are they making that you believe is an argument from authority.

    The claim that a code of conduct is not needed, with them claiming the authority with their OPINION and attitudes. But then, you haven’t been here and understand the back posts that got us here.

    Why does everyone feed the Trolls here?

    We feed them until the burst, never to return. See PZ’s standards and practices.

  275. John Morales says

    shotsick”

    Also, who is “you people?” Please just address my points not the points of those you think I am aligned with.

    “you people” is the set of people spouting your purported views.

    (duh)

  276. shotsick says

    @Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    “5000+ plus posts of us discussing the issue, with evidence presented.”

    So, there’s evidence but its contained in an online dialog spanning 5000 posts. This is like a creationist saying that the Bible makes predictions which have come true but fails to give any specifics. I was hoping you could cite a study that either A) shows the abundance of harassment at conventions or B) shows a code of conduct significantly reduces reports of harassment.

    “The claim that a code of conduct is not needed, with them claiming the authority with their OPINION and attitudes.”

    Your demonstration of an argument from authority is that you assert they “claimed authority with their opinion.” I’m sorry, but this is not critical thinking. I was hoping for at least a quote from some one that contained an argument from authority, such as “No code is needing because D.J. Grothe said it isn’t a problem.” Instead, you rephrased my question in the form of a statement.

    This is what happens in an echo chamber. People forget how they arrived at their conclusions.

  277. carlie says

    Did you not read my post? I agree that there should be a plan. I said that didn’t I?

    And then said that making staffers responsible for taking complaints was a strange thing fraught with potential problems, when that is the standard way that other policies operate. I’m asking what evidence you have that this is problematic, given that it’s the way that seems to be done without problems by every other group that operates in this manner.

  278. shotsick says

    @ John Morales

    I didn’t realize I purported such controversial and novel views, considering I’ve already stated that I support the plan or code of conduct at meetings.

  279. Ogvorbis: Dogmaticus sycophantus says

    Rebecca Watson has exactly the Lego I need and she won’t share!

  280. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    I didn’t realize I purported such controversial and novel views, considering I’ve already stated that I support the plan or code of conduct at meetings.

    Ah, but you appear to be arguing for the other side, hence the implication. That is something called concern trolling. What is your real point?

  281. John Morales says

    shotsick:

    This is what happens in an echo chamber. People forget how they arrived at their conclusions.

    It’s Rebecca Watson’s fault you’ve forgotten how you arrived at your conclusions.

  282. says

    De-lurking to say that this was the funniest thread ever. I laughed all night. You people are the best. It’s the place I feel most at home anywhere because it’s safe – misogynists and rape-apologists will be confronted – and fun. Who said feminism was humourless? Thank you all for being brilliant and kind. You really have no idea how much some of us lurkers out here love you all.

  283. says

    Rebecca Watson made jembynumbers think that we care about their opinions and that they should share.

    You convinced me, She is a complete monster.

  284. John Morales says

    shotsick:

    I didn’t realize I purported such controversial and novel views, considering I’ve already stated that I support the plan or code of conduct at meetings.

    Rebecca Watson’s fault; by her very existence she confused you so that you didn’t realise it was your quoted words which addressed.

  285. shotsick says

    @carlie

    what I said:

    “Convention staffers are not qualified nor do they have the authority to investigate, collect evidence, and decipher truth from deception in interviews.”

    what you said I said:

    “taking complaints was a strange thing fraught with potential problems, when that is the standard way that other policies operate.”

    I was stating a fact. Staffers are not qualified to conduct investigations, collect evidence, etc. especially if a law has been broken. They can kick someone out of the convention but cannot physically facilitate the removal. The only force of law that the plan can carry is A) you’re kicked out of the convention or B) we’re calling the cops.

    If someone is assaulted at these conventions I want immediate police involvement not a bunch of Jerry Sandusky internal-investigation bullshit.

    If the convention staffers act as anything other than an observe-and-report entity, they are setting themselves up for a major lawsuit.

  286. carlie says

    I didn’t realize I purported such controversial and novel views, considering I’ve already stated that I support the plan or code of conduct at meetings.

    You said:

    There is no real danger to women at these conventions.

    What is your evidence to that, especially given that we have several documented cases of harassment at these conventions?

    Convention staffers are not qualified nor do they have the authority to investigate, collect evidence, and decipher truth from deception in interviews. These are jobs for law enforcement. Any enforcement of rules at a convention needs to be done by the facilitators of the event, namely hotel security.

    Most policies state that professionals will be called in if it goes beyond the skills of a staffer. And again, other conventions and places of employment already have such policies, and they appear to work. There are stories in existence of those policies working (see the one about the sex card, for example). Don’t know the story about the sex card? Then maybe you need to read some more first, and not spout an opinion without knowing the facts surrounding the situation you’re opining about.

    However, many members of FTB appear to have dug their trenches deep on this issue.

    Because the point is to decrease harassment. How would you like for trenches not to be dug – to say yes, some harassment is ok? How much exactly would be enough compromise for you?

    I’ve read through this entire thread and I notice that anyone not in your trench draws immediate fire. I’m not talking about the trolls. Although, anyone who does not buy in wholesale gets branded as one.

    More like anyone who decides to loftily tell us what’s important without even knowing anything about the situation first.

  287. carlie says

    If someone is assaulted at these conventions I want immediate police involvement not a bunch of Jerry Sandusky internal-investigation bullshit.

    FOR FUCK’S SAKE. Of course police would be called in for an assault. Policies cover everything under that, like following somebody around, trying to neg them, not taking no for an answer, the kind of thing that usually evaporates as soon as someone with any con authority tells them to knock it the hell off if they want to be able to go to any more of the convention activities.

  288. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    I was stating a fact. Staffers are not qualified to conduct investigations, collect evidence, etc. especially if a law has been broken. They can kick someone out of the convention but cannot physically facilitate the removal. The only force of law that the plan can carry is A) you’re kicked out of the convention or B) we’re calling the cops.

    Again, concern trolling. Staffers are trained to take notes and document the situation. It can hold up in court if needed (credible witnesses). And most of all they can call in hotel security which is authorized to remove people. Cops need not be involved at any step of the process. Which is why the argument “leave it to the cops” is a non-argument. It need not happen. Only a person arguing for no code of conduct goes there. So, what is your problem?

  289. Pteryxx says

    I was hoping you could cite a study that either A) shows the abundance of harassment at conventions or B) shows a code of conduct significantly reduces reports of harassment.

    Convention-exceptionalism, anyone? Decades worth of research exists on sexual harassment, and much of it’s referenced in posts listed in Jason Thibeault’s timeline.

    Sample: as it happens, b) HAS been addressed long since: (thanks to ixchel)

    The Impact of a University Policy on the Sexual Harassment of Female Students

    http://www.jstor.org/stable/1982220

    Our survey results indicate that reports of faculty/staff sexual harassment of female undergraduates have declined over the past six years. Our analyses suggest that the sexual harassment policy and grievance procedure established at the University of Massachusetts at Amherst helped prevent faculty/staff sexual harassment of female undergraduate students.

  290. FluffyTheTerrible says

    @shotshick

    Carlie and other posters have been extremely kind, and explained things to you.
    However, considering there’s always at least one of your ilk on every thread, just asking questions, and being all concerned – about the wrong category, might I add – and having absolutely no fucking clue what he/she is talking about – or feigning ignorance-, I’m going to take the shorter approach, and tell you to FUCK OFF.

    Also, totally agree with debraobrien – this thread is one the funniest things I’ve read on the internet.

  291. shotsick says

    @Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    “Ah, but you appear to be arguing for the other side, hence the implication. That is something called concern trolling. What is your real point?”

    I certainly do not agree with you’re position 100%. However, saying I agree that there should be a plan puts a small dent in theory. I do not believe any of you have thought about how it will be enforced, and the limited power staffers have in enforcing anything outside of asking people to leave.

  292. says

    Rebecca Watson planted fossils all around the world to make us believe creationism is false and make us all go to hell because we didn’t believe.

    That was a Dick move, Watson.

  293. Wowbagger, Deputy Vice-President (Silencing) says

    As a kid, I – as many kids do – had the ability to know exactly what to do to annoy the teacher but not so much that it would justify her sending me to the principal. And I exploited this at every opportunity I could, much like certain kinds of people do when they can get away with it.

    What I’m trying to say is that we’re not trying to stop the things that people do that would be considered illegal – since we genuinely don’t believe any atheist organisation would sweep something like that under the rug – we’re trying to stop people doing the non-illegal but nonetheless unpleasant things that make people not want to go to conventions.

  294. 'Tis Himself says

    shotsick #468

    <q?Convention staffers are not qualified nor do they have the authority to investigate, collect evidence, and decipher truth from deception in interviews.

    Your evidence for this is what? It’s an opinion, nothing more.

    We hear MRAs whine about how women lie continually about rape and sexual harassment. You seem to have bought into this meme. So convince us that there’s a reason to be actually concerned about “deception” in reports of sexual harassment.

  295. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Typical concern troll against codes of conduct/anti harassment policies. About 1-2 a day pop up here for posts.

    1) Give lip service to agree with the policy.
    2) Start bring up concerns about the implementation of said policy, all evidenceless opinions.
    3) End up trying to undermine the implementation of said policies by making them seem impractical to implement effectively.

    Look in the shotsick and see what you are doing. For example, you want us to present evidence, yet you present none of your own. You fit the above description to a tee. Which is why we are suspicious of your motives, which aren’t pure. If you lie about your motives, what else will you lie about?

  296. Arkady says

    Sigh, repost from an earlier thread at Ophelia’s in response to Shotsick, who doesn’t seem to grasp that for women, sod-all spaces are ever that safe:

    Yes, [TAM, insert-Con-here] probably isn’t any less safe than any random non-atheist event/night out…

    Can’t speak to anyone else’s experience, but it’s rare to go on a night out with friends in my current city and not have something unpleasant happen. Groping/attempted groping from strangers (and one creepy colleague I tend to avoid), proposition from a taxi driver when I was the last one in the car, 2AM guys who proposition then scream ‘BITCH’ as close as they can to you ear when rejected, drunk guys who come up to say something then try to kiss you… I was reflecting on this recently after warning two new colleagues about Creep in our lab, that so many of those objecting to these policies (and the earlier objections to the very fact that women pass on details of creeps to each other that Jen recounted) seem to have no idea how many of us depressingly have to deal with this shit on a regular basis in our ‘real lives’.

    Now Shotsick, you may well not classify groping and angry-screaming-rejected men as ‘real danger’. Would you care to explain what you would consider ‘real danger’ to be?

  297. John Morales says

    shotsick:

    I do not believe any of you have thought about how it will be enforced, and the limited power staffers have in enforcing anything outside of asking people to leave.

    Perhaps Rebecca Watson is training cadre teams of elite ninja skepchick lesbian bouncers — wouldn’t put it past her.

  298. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    However, saying I agree that there should be a plan puts a small dent in theory.

    Nope, all it means is that you potentially lie. I look at your total behavior. It is that of a concern troll, not a supporter.