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I get email

This is new! I usually don’t get rape fantasies, but Thunderf00t’s angry rabble have opened up exciting new vistas.

The whole point of free-thinking is to express what you have been thinking to others; what would the point of Socrates’ trial have been if he had not made the impressive speeches he made? If the people judging him had simply written him off as ‘too out there’ and simply condemned him five minutes into his talking? The point I’m trying to make is that as much as I think Watson is at a minimum misguided, you are culpable for much worse. Free Speech is the fundamental human right; without it, we are all doomed. You removing his website because you disagree on a matter of opinion makes you as bad as the papacy banning books, or Iran banning books, etc. etc…. In other words, by shutting off free expression you have sauntered effortlessly to lines the old and evil; too much information is bad, we decide what you should be exposed to, let’s have Salman Rushdie killed for writing something we don’t agree with. You have not tried to have Tf00t killed yet(my, what restraint you have), but at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to see that either. You’re supposed to be a scientist; a little open-mindedness goes a long way in investigating the truth.

In this modern world the only way to survive and live well is to laugh, rather than cry… A little cynicism never hurt anyone.

Anyway, I don’t believe I shall be reading your blogs any more; at least until you apologize to Mr. f00t; if you don’t all I can to is hope you get raped to death by Jaguars in the Yucatan. Next time think with your brain instead of your balls, and maybe over time I’ll grow to trust and respect you again. until then, eat shit. I mean, you’re supposed to be a scientist, for Christ’s sake.

I could swear some more but based off what I know of you you’re probably bawling already. Nobody likes a crybaby. You old cunt.

Thanks for your time!

Phil Krstulich,

someone who actually believes in equality of right for all humankind, and who isn’t a two-faced fuck who pretends to be in favor of free speech while trying to stamp it out.

Curses! My plan to have Thunderf00t killed has been exposed!

I have now seen a teeny tiny fraction of what Anita Sarkeesian gets.

Comments

  1. says

    How dare you have eliminated all of TF’s avenues for free speech!

    I’ve never gotten this line of argumentation. If you’re in my house yelling at my guests, and I tell you to leave, I haven’t violated your free speech. You still have it.

  2. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    raped to death by Jaguars

    Which immediately evoked in my mind an image of luxury cars having their way with you. I was like WUT?

  3. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Yawn PK, your concern is noted, along with your lack of stating Tf is responsible for what he says, and if what he says is foolish, he deserves to be treated like a fool, which he was. Evidently you only think “free speech” comes into play if others are discomforted, and you agree with it, including half the population. And I don’t believe for one second you are for women’s rights and against harassment, unless it is extremely blatant. You haven’t shown you know how to shut the fuck up and listen to those who disagree with you.

  4. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Seriously though, this is so unhinged it’s almost impossible to believe he really thinks these things. Two years ago I would have been certain it was a parody. I am now disabused of that innocence.

  5. says

    Just goes to show all atheist aren’t rational. Otherwise they’d know that “freethought” does not mean…

    1) Say whatever you like without being called on it.
    2) Insult anyone you like without being called on it.
    3) Make lousy arguments without being called on them.
    4) Anyone who disagrees with you and says so is trying to suppress and censor you.

    If thunderf00t had shown the least interest in engaging in dialogue with the people criticizing his posts, rather than doubling down on his douchebaggery, he might still be here today. But I’m sure he and his fanboys are happy validating each other over what a bunch of evil thought-police tyrants we all are.

  6. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    The whole point of free-thinking is to express what you have been thinking to others; what would the point of Socrates’ trial have been if he had not made the impressive speeches he made?

    Bwahahaha.
    :D

  7. says

    Does anyone believe he ever actually did read this blog before? I mean, other than looking for something to get annoyed by and whine about.

  8. AlanMac says

    Since when does freedom of thought and opinion equal freedom from criticism, responsibility, or accountability for those thoughts.

  9. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Martin, don’t forget that Freethought also means:


    1. The right to have your views hosted, paid for, and promoted on anyone’s server.
    2. The right to have the above in perpetuity because if a site cuts you off that means it’s disappeared you from the entire interwebz.

  10. garyb says

    Tell him you were exercising your right to free speech. When did the idea that government is not allowed to punish anti-government speech become the idea that anything can be said to anyone else without consequences?

  11. Woo_Monster, Sniffer of Starfarts says

    Ace of Sevens,

    What? Besides the other stuff, I’m not clear on how your balls kicked Thunderf00t off the network.

    Their little narrative is that PZ kicked TF off FTB in order to get into RW’s pants*.

    *enough acronyms for ya?

  12. says

    Their little narrative is that PZ kicked TF off FTB in order to get into RW’s pants*.

    What? Whaaat? Whaaaa…. Jesus Babiroussa Christ, these people… WTF is wrong with them?

  13. Woo_Monster, Sniffer of Starfarts says

    It is just more ignorance and projection. They can’t imagine any guy *not* “thinking with their balls”, so that is what they accuse PZ of.

  14. IslandBrewer says

    So, Phil and Tfoot’s definition of free speech is the same as Anne Coulter’s.

    Charming.

  15. eric says

    …all I can to is hope you get raped to death by Jaguars in the Yucatan…

    Its the extraneous detail that surprises me. Not just raped, but raped by jaguars. And not just jaguars, jaguars in the Yucatan.

    I suspect that if/when I get drunk and do some ill-advised internet venting, my own hatemail would not measure up to these guys’ standards. No jaguars. No exotic locales. I’d probably do no better than a few f-bombs and your-momma comments.

  16. DonDueed says

    Bloody well right! You’re supposed to be a scientist, PZ, so go do some science!

    Like maybe figure out how these people manage to operate a computer. There’s a Nobel with your name on it if you can explain that.

  17. Woo_Monster, Sniffer of Starfarts says

    I, for one, would like to thank PZ for the restraint he has shown in not murdering Thunderfoot.

  18. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    Honestly, this whole thing has been embarrassing to watch from *both* side.

    Elaborate.

  19. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    both sides

    Yep. Because not putting up with Tfoot’s irrational, embarrassing, and obnoxious obliviousness is just as bad as Tfoot’s irrational, embarrassing, and obnoxious obliviousness.

  20. dapartypoopah says

    Well to be fair we are not talking about criticism, we are talking about banning people. But to be fair again I doubt TF was banned for just the fact that he made stupid arguments. Right?

  21. Woo_Monster, Sniffer of Starfarts says

    Honestly, this whole thing has been embarrassing to watch from *both* side.

    Want to elaborate more on how the side refuting TF’s bullshit is also embarrassing for you to watch? Or not, as it is bound to be a load of false equivalency.

    Stupid fingers.

    Based on your first comment, the problem may not be in your fingers.

  22. What a Maroon, Applied Linguist of Slight Foreboding says

    It’s worse than Phil imagines. PZ and co. are stamping on the free speech rights of roughly 7 billion people (not to mention countless squid) by not giving them free access to blog on FTB.

    Clearly, they have powers of oppresion that Hitler, Stalin and Mao could only dream of.

  23. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Based on your first comment, the problem may not be in your fingers.

    You beat me.

  24. Ze Madmax says

    Hayden @ #20

    Honestly, this whole thing has been embarrassing to watch from *both* side.

    One side is using rape threats and crying that their right to free speech is being infringed upon. The other side is just rude.

    So… a pox on both your houses?

  25. Woo_Monster, Sniffer of Starfarts says

    You beat me.

    I knew I only had a short window to work with that line. I did my best.

  26. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    we are talking about banning people

    The fuck is it with so many people today and that word? Banning. It’s uttered as if the action is just shy of shoving people into a pit and shooting them. Besides, when a newspaper fires a columnist we don’t say they “banned” that person. What the fuck is that even supposed to mean?

    Seriously. Unpack that fucking concept before you use it!

  27. Ze Madmax says

    dapartypoopah @ #28

    Well to be fair we are not talking about criticism, we are talking about banning people. But to be fair again I doubt TF was banned for just the fact that he made stupid arguments. Right?

    Thunderf00t wasn’t banned.

  28. Randomfactor says

    I, for one, would like to thank PZ for the restraint he has shown in not murdering Thunderfoot.

    Alas, PZ’s already released the kraken. TF’s doobed, I tell ya, doobed.

  29. Thomathy, Holy Trinity of Conflation: Atheist-Secularist-Darwinist says

    Hayden:

    Stupid fingers.

    Yeah, blame your fingers.

    _____

    Jaguars in the Yucatan are a microcosm of human society. The worst of it, anyhow. On good advice, I’d avoid their territory.

  30. Josh, Official Yucatan Jaguar says

    Jaguars in the Yucatan are a microcosm of human society. The worst of it, anyhow. On good advice, I’d avoid their territory.

    Damn tootin’.

  31. Sili (I have no penis and I must jizz) says

    what would the point of Socrates’ trial have been if he had not made the impressive speeches he made? If the people judging him had simply written him off as ‘too out there’ and simply condemned him five minutes into his talking?

    Oooh? I didn’t realise we’d found the court transcripts!

    Or does this fella think Platon wrote anything but fiction?

  32. says

    I have now seen a teeny tiny fraction of what Anita Sarkeesian gets.

    Oh, I’m sure that’s just more edgy, 4channy, raucous humor. Nothing to do with collective misogyny or silencing uppity women. Just send Justin Griffith to reason with them.

  33. says

    New Statesman also has an article (quite visual, be warned) about the abuse directed towards Anita Sarkeesian. I don’t have the words to properly describe how fucking disgusted I am.

    On a positive note I love the header graphics on Feminist Frequency.

  34. Sili (I have no penis and I must jizz) says

    I don’t think they fit would him.

    Well, he has grown rather svelte.

  35. says

    I, too, have noticed with ever growing concern the complete disappearance from the internet of Thunderfoot since you went all Nacht Und Nebel on his ass. Has anybody here seen my old friend Thunderfoot? I turn around and he’s gone.

  36. Woo_Monster, Sniffer of Starfarts says

    Ernst Hot, thanks for that link, but now I am feeling sick to my stomach. That “interactive “Beat Up Anita Sarkeesian” game”, is one of the most disgusting thing I have ever seen. Absolutely fucking disgusting.

    The piece of shit who made that game had this to say in the description,

    Any form of constructive criticism, even from fellow women, is either ignored or labelled to be sexist against her.

    Just wow. He calls this “constructive criticism”? He is surprised when he is labelled “sexist”?

    Fuck this slimey fucker.

  37. dogeared, spotted and foxed says

    Like Josh said, it’s so easy to read this as parody. My first instinct is to imagine Mr. Krstulich merrily typing this out as a ridiculous homage to recent events or a tasty little amuse-bouche to offer between the heartier fare of this blog.

    Then I realize that no, Paul was probably pounding away on his keyboard thinking “PZ will be stunned into shocked realization of deepest shame by my manly logics, Yucatan jaguar rape threats and a blatant use of the cunt-word! Go me! So-crates! FREE SPEEEEEECH!

  38. sc_78943705727ce8b5cd2d182cbc30c5cc says

    PZ,

    You really just showed the movement how fucking pathetic you are.
    I have read your blog for years because I loved your takedowns of creationists. Its more than a little bit ironic that you used to (righfully) mock Ken Ham for refusing to link to this blog or open up comments because he knew that he couldn’t compete with free expression. Turns out you’re just as much of a simpering asshole.

  39. Sili (I have no penis and I must jizz) says

    Thunderf00t’s response.

    I don’t understand.

    How can Blunderfoot respond when he’s banned and silenced?

    Does not compute. My little, feminist brains hurtz just thinking about it.

  40. Woo_Monster, Sniffer of Starfarts says

    sc_78943705727ce8b5cd2d182cbc30c5cc,

    Whaaaaa, whaaaa, whaaaa!!!11!

    Yawn

  41. FluffyTheTerrible says

    PZ,

    You really just showed the movement how fucking pathetic you are.
    I have read your blog for years because I loved your takedowns of creationists. Its more than a little bit ironic that you used to (righfully) mock Ken Ham for refusing to link to this blog or open up comments because he knew that he couldn’t compete with free expression. Turns out you’re just as much of a simpering asshole.

    Oh, look, a shiny new chew toy. How about you first figure out how to have a proper nym on this board ,before tackling more complicated intellectual activities, like thinking and typing at the same time?

  42. Josh, Official Yucatan Jaguar says

    I have read your blog for years just today cuz leave Thunderfoot alone

    Fixed.

  43. ChasCPeterson says

    Has anybody here seen my old friend Thunderf00t?
    Can you tell me where he’s gone?
    He made a lot of people facepalm
    But it seems the true free-thinkers they’re banned young.
    I just looked around
    And he’s over on Y*uT*be celebrating himself like always.

  44. Sili (I have no penis and I must jizz) says

    Its more than a little bit ironic that you used to (righfully) mock Ken Ham for refusing to link to this blog or open up comments because he knew that he couldn’t compete with free expression. Turns out you’re just as much of a simpering asshole.

    And yet here you are in the open comments getting a hearing?

    MAI BRANE HERTZ!

  45. says

    How can Blunderfoot respond when he’s banned and silenced?

    Because he’s a real man and your fascist, feminazi, censorious bullying is no match for his alpha-male masculine manliness.

    Or something.

  46. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    Its more than a little bit ironic that you used to (righfully) mock Ken Ham for refusing to link to this blog or open up comments because he knew that he couldn’t compete with free expression. Turns out you’re just as much of a simpering asshole.

    If PZ had mocked Ken Ham for not paying to host Pharyngula, that equivalence would not be quite so false.

  47. ChasCPeterson says

    The whole point of free-thinking is to express what you have been thinking to others

    It sez so right here in my Oxford Complete Edition of the Impressive Speeches of Socrates.

  48. Josh, Official Yucatan Jaguar says

    Oxford Complete Edition of the Impressive Speeches of Socrates.

    heheheheheh

    /Bender

  49. Tethys says

    Oh dear, yet another idiot making stupid, stupid, accusations without engaging a single brain cell. Stupids gotta stupe.

    Sili Or does this fella think Platon wrote anything but fiction?

    I am unfamiliar with the philosopher/general to which you refer.

    SC Just send Justin Griffith to reason with them.

    My my, what a lovely piece of snark. ♥

  50. Josh, Official Yucatan Jaguar says

    He just doesn’t like speaking in forums he doesn’t control.

    Zing. That’s really insightful.

  51. Sili (I have no penis and I must jizz) says

    PZ has prehensile testicles.

    They prefer to be called spermatophores.

  52. Josh, Official Yucatan Jaguar says

    Errm, Thunderf00t hasn’t been banned.

    YEAH HUH! Banning means when you don’t let him have a blog here!

  53. Ze Madmax says

    *re-reads Josh’s ‘nym*

    ROFL

    *wipes coffee off keyboard/screen*

    *ahem* where would you like your shiny new Intertoobs delivered?

  54. says

    PZ!
    I can haz free speech, too? You’re squashing my First Amendment rights by not giving me a blog!

    (This calls into question: did “freedom of speech” exist before the internet?)

    I ♥ this bit:

    In other words, by shutting off free expression you have sauntered effortlessly to lines the old and evil; too much information is bad, we decide what you should be exposed to, let’s have Salman Rushdie killed for writing something we don’t agree with.

    Yes, because deciding that Thunderf00t and his crappy blog wasn’t a good fit for FtB is exactly like issuing a fatwā. Also, because TF has been booted from this blog network, there have been assassination attempts on his life! Just like Salman Rushdie.

    Tru fax.

  55. says

    Woo_Monster, Sniffer of Starfarts #47

    Ernst Hot, thanks for that link, but now I am feeling sick to my stomach.
    That “interactive “Beat Up Anita Sarkeesian” game”, is one of the most disgusting thing I have ever seen. Absolutely fucking disgusting.

    That’s why I put the warning there, I had a similar reaction myself. How lacking in empathy are these people who find that shit funny?

    I don’t think I could have made a better case for feminism if I tried…

  56. Woo_Monster, Sniffer of Starfarts says

    God, Thunderfoot. Your fans are some of the stupidest trolls I have seen in a while. I yearn for shinier chew-toys. Rajkumar, come back…

  57. says

    Josh, Official SpokesGay:
    “raped to death by Jaguars ”

    Which immediately evoked in my mind an image of luxury cars having their way with you. I was like WUT?

    pentatomid:
    Josh,

    Transformers?

    Probably Bayformers, given what I’ve heard of those movies.

    It’s really amazing, reflecting on how so many idiots don’t understand the meaning of censorship even though it’s a core issue in the information age.

    You can write whatever you want, but I don’t have to loan you my pencil to do it. I don’t have to loan you my stationary and my implied approval that comes with it, either. FTB simply withdrew permission for TF to use their pencils and stationery.

    There isn’t exactly a crippling shortage of writing instruments, nor an FTB monopoly on such devices to warrant censorship concerns. TFoot is free to use generic pencils and generic paper provided by Blogger and WordPress. He’s free to use the film provided by YouTube. He’s free to use stationery from whoever else might want his writing associated with them. Welcome to the information age.

  58. Josh, Official Yucatan Jaguar says

    #70—Literally the only words I could understand in that wharblegarble were “fuckin’” and “email.”

  59. FluffyTheTerrible says

    I find it rather disheartening – to say the least – that a person who apparently has a working knowledge of Socrates and Salman Rushdie can equate their situations to TF’s, and, most importantly, that they can go from talking about Socrates to rape threats in the space of a couple a paragraphs without missing a beat or having their head explode from the contradiction.

    I used to console myself with the fact that most hate comments of the internet are justified by the anonymity of the system and the lack of education of the persons writing the hate comments .. now, I’m not so sure.

    I wonder if you can easily recognize such individuals in every day life – the ones who consider rape threats a valid argument to be employed in a conversation.

    [I posted a comment with similar content, but different wording, and it seemed to have got lost...apologies if this is a duplicate]

  60. T-Foot actually has integrity unlike some assholes. says

    THe gallling thing about this bullshit move is that it seems to go against every principle of free expression you have been expounding for years. Turns out your just a fucking hypocrite.

    T-F00t’s post yesterday “PZ Myers and the Art of Shameless Dishonesty” was dead on.

  61. says

    How ever will thunderf00t get his views out without a blog. Now he only has his youtube account with ~155,000 subscribers!

    Oh the humanity he’ll never be able to get his message out to people ever again!!!!

  62. Josh, Official Yucatan Jaguar says

    THe gallling thing about this bullshit move is that it seems to go against every principle of free expression you have been expounding for years. Turns out your just a fucking hypocrite.

    What is this werdz?

  63. FluffyTheTerrible says

    @ T-Foot actually has integrity unlike some assholes.

    Wow, does my asshole have integrity? How do you find out if it doesn’t? Will it affect my ability to shit all over your hateful argument?

  64. Woo_Monster, Sniffer of Starfarts says

    THe gallling thing about this bullshit move is that it seems to go against every principle of free expression you have been expounding for years.

    LOL. Because, for years, PZ has been expounding the principle that free expression entails that anyone whosoever can host a blog on his network, regardless of quality.

  65. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    THe gallling thing about this bullshit move is that it seems to go against every principle of free expression you have been expounding for years.

    Free expression requires that you host ALL PEOPLE on your blog site! YOU ARE SILENCING ME! I DEMAND MY OWN FTB IMMEDIATELY!

    (To clarify, since I’ve been faux-complaining about this for several days: I don’t actually want one.)

  66. ChasCPeterson says

    ROFL
    *wipes coffee off keyboard/screen*
    *ahem* where would you like your shiny new Intertoobs delivered?

    Internet Police. License and registration, please?
    yeah, I could cite you twice for that comment, but I’ll let you off with a warning this time.
    Please comment more safely in the future and have a nice day.

  67. says

    T-F00t’s post yesterday “PZ Myers and the Art of Shameless Dishonesty” was dead on.

    We are aware of said post and are thoroughly unimpressed. Piss off.

  68. CJO says

    Sili (I have no penis and I must jizz)

    Delurking on a MRA madness thread, simply to say, Sili, your nym made me laugh. Really hard.

    Best. Ellison. reference. Evar.

    The rest of y’all. Keep up the mockery. Sometimes we must laugh in order not to cry.

  69. says

    Somebody else doesn’t know what “free expression” means! *cough*TfootHoggler @ 75*cough!*

    Are you assholes really so stupid that you think everyone is guaranteed a particular platform. If so, I want my very own Free Thought Blog or I’m contacting the ACLU!

  70. Josh, Official Yucatan Jaguar says

    *ahem* where would you like your shiny new Intertoobs delivered?

    I’ll take delivery in the rear.

  71. says

    I DEMAND that Thunderf00t let me post videos on his channel!

    What? I can’t? Why does he hate freedom of speech so much?!?

  72. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    Errm, Thunderf00t hasn’t been banned.

    BAH facts.

    Useless I say! What when we have vitriol and self important anger!

  73. FluffyTheTerrible says

    Also, did you know Loftus made a post commenting on Thunderfoot’s latest vlogging “masterpiece”? I really have to stop visiting that site, it really makes my blood boil.

  74. Josh, Official Yucatan Jaguar says

    If U DOANT let mE drive ur CAr yur dinnieing me driverz LiCense!11!!11!

  75. savagemutt says

    I’ve never gone to an atheism or skepticism conference or meetup because I’ve been afraid of being intimidated by all the smart people there.

    If Phil is at all representative of some portion of that population, then my fears have been misplaced.

  76. Larry says

    Raped to death by Jaguars

    I think I caught their show at the Colosseum in 2006 as the intro band for Alison Krauss. Hell of a set if I remember.

  77. Woo_Monster, Sniffer of Starfarts says

    I have been BANNED (from posting vids on TF’s youtube channel)

    CENSORSHIP!!!!!!

    TALIBAN!!!!!

    FEMINAZIS!!!!!!!!!

    Y U NO LIKE FREE SPEEEEEEEEEECH?????????????

  78. karpad says

    I cannot speak for anyone else, but…

    I’m not sure if I’m just getting more bitter or what, but the anti-feminist brigade has been more and more tiresome as of late.

    Used to be I could spend hours and hours arguing and showing them why they’re wrong. And they would be humiliated and make increasingly stupid statements digging holes for themselves.

    Now, I see the comments on the New Statesman link and I just think how wrong they are, and how it just doesn’t feel worth the effort to correct them anymore.

    It just comes off as so morally indefensible that I simply cannot understand them defending so obviously a morally indefensible position

    Words fail, and I am exhausted. So if I seem curt, simply calling you wrong, stupid and dismissing you instead of treating your arguments with respect, it is because you have skull badges on your caps.

  79. Josh, Official Yucatan Jaguar says

    karpad, most of us feel the same way. Try mockery; it helps a little.

  80. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    I have been BANNED (from posting vids on TF’s youtube channel)

    See, everybody? Thunderf00t has no integrity and doesn’t care about free expression! So much for “free” thinking! What a hypocrite!

  81. duce7999 says

    I am so disappointed in Thunderf00t. I find this all so very sad. I fully support PZ and FTB in their decision. I truly hope that Thunderf00t has a realization and seeks to make amends. Just because I agree with him on ‘A’ doesn’t mean I have to tolerate his poor behavior. The man is drowning in his privilege.

  82. Josh, Official Yucatan Jaguar says

    I wanna hoggle you, all night
    fap you into sunlight
    hoggle you, all night
    fap the night away

  83. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    Karpad, it gets to all of us eventually/occasionally. Sometimes it works to rest, sometimes you can’t rest and just swear and ridicule until you feel better, sometimes you get depressed and give up for a while (different from resting). This sort of thing is precisely why people who come here and tell us all to be nicer and not to be on such a hair trigger and to treat everyone like reasonable, good faith interlocutors are so fucking unbearable for a lot of us – this shit gets exhausting. I like to remember the phrase “Don’t let the bastards grind you down,” but eventually they just fucking do and there’s no “letting” involved.

  84. davidbohm says

    Josh, Official Yucatan Jaguar:

    yah, sounded like Sean Connerys long-lost brother!

  85. Sili (I have no penis and I must jizz) says

    Josh, Official Yucatan Jaguar

    I thought you were more of a cougar.

  86. Hayden says

    @All above

    This entire episode was a giant case of both sides misinterpreting each other’s statements. Simply put, PZ, et al., want conferences to adopt harassment policies. The point of this is so that a person being harassed has some form of official recourse. Totally sensible.

    For some reason TF interprets this as deputizing a squad of fun police who have lists of pre-approved fun activities, and straying outside these guidelines will result in some sort of punishment. Clearly idiotic, and not what has been proposed. However, his main point boils down to this. If people are having fun together, it’s no one else’s business. Totally sensible.

    Enter the responses. PZ attributes the following positions to TF. “It’s OK if you abuse women in a bar; bars are free-range markets for men to exercise their will.” Later, “And his solution, which is to ignore all threats except the ones where you get to bring in the FBI and have them arrest someone, is so laughably black-and-white that it suggests he is entirely oblivious to the situation.” And again, “There is an attitude that women are there not as colleagues and respected partners in the goals of the movement, but as eye candy and sex toys”, followed by, “Thunderf00t expresses that same sense of privilege.” These quotes are all gross mischaracterizations of what TF actually said, which is that consenting adults should be left to their own devices.

    Of course, among all that garbage above, PZ actually *agrees* with that point (“If she wants you to nibble on her leg, or she wants to nibble on yours, fine, have fun.”). As well he should, because it’s a sensible position. Unfortunately, that part of the message was lost among all the noise. TF responds with more straw men of his own and the whole thing proceeds down the shitter.

    Ultimately, the person who got it right in all of this was Christina Rad. She hit’s the nail on the head with one sentence.

    These policies are not meant to take the fun out of the event, but to ensure that if someone needs help, help is available.

    This should have been the thrust of PZ’s message. This could have lead to a constructive discussion, about the real point of contention, which is not whether we should have harassment policies at all, but rather what form they should take. TF seems to think a simple “Management reserves the right to refuse admission” is sufficient. PZ wants something more like the American Atheists’ policy which he posted. The discussion should have been about which of the two is appropriate. Instead we eventually ended up with sarcastic drivel that added nothing to the discussion.

    Between the two, I think TF came out of this looking worse, but PZ did not exactly make a good showing, either. I lost a lot of respect for both parties involved.

  87. says

    THe gallling thing about this bullshit move is that it seems to go against every principle of free expression you have been expounding for years.

    I could be mistaken, but I am pretty sure PZ is in the “hey lets NOT debate creationists” camp with richard dawkins and others based on the idea that its a waste of fucking time and only gives the false impression that people should give a fuck about what pastors and sitcom actors have to say about the subject. It isn’t against free thought to give a brand new wanker a go at restating the same old failed arguments over and over again. TF is about as well versed in social sciences (and law, and english) as kirk cameron is in biology. Why should anyone care what he thinks of sexual harassment policies?

  88. Sili (I have no penis and I must jizz) says

    Josh, Official SpokesGay:
    “raped to death by Jaguars ”

    Which immediately evoked in my mind an image of luxury cars having their way with you. I was like WUT?

    pentatomid:
    Josh,

    Transformers?

    Probably Bayformers, given what I’ve heard of those movies.

    More like TF Kiss-players.

  89. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    Look, Hayden. If TF misrepresents the issue of harassment policies to such an extent that he thinks “consenting adults!” is an argument against them, he’s being disingenuous or he’s jumping into a situation in complete ignorance to run his mouth. Neither one deserves serious consideration. By focusing on this dumbass and irrelevant “central point” to the exclusion of the words he actually put in his post, you are being disingenuous too. If “Consenting adults!” was all he meant to say, and the only thing acceptable to respond to, that should have been all he put in his post.

  90. davidbohm says

    Hayden: Yah.. drama drama drama. Why not calmly establish what can be agreed upon, what can be compromised upon and what are the fundamental differences of oppinion?.

    I am surpriced to see this out of two people in academia (I would have said grownups, but it would have been unfair to children).

  91. Hayden says

    @110

    Yes. TF was being ridiculous. You will get no disagreement from me there.

  92. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    I am surpriced to see this out of two people in academia (I would have said grownups, but it would have been unfair to children).

    STOP with the both-sides shit, seriously. Thunderf00t behaved like a fucking ignorant, dishonest asshole. It is not incumbent upon PZ or anyone else to treat him like he’s an honest interlocutor.

  93. FluffyTheTerrible says

    @ Hayden

    You seem to think your stance on the subject of TF hasn’t been discussed thoroughly around here, and we didn’t already dismantle most of the stuff in your post.

    The fact that you decide to present TF’s posts in a positive light and to pretend they contained simple, reasonable, easy to understand nuggets of wisdom – when in fact they were incoherent messes of verbal diarrhea – tells me all I need to know about you and how honest you are about this.

    Also, stop trying to share the blame. TF was the sole architect of designing and digging his hole, with most people on FtB -PZ included – trying to stop him.

    Finally, you must have a very interesting definition of respect if you say you lost it for both TF and PZ. Something tells me the things I would have to believe and say and do in order to gain your *respect* are quite unappealing – and that’s an understatement.

  94. Josh, Official Yucatan Jaguar says

    Hayden has looked at fights from both sides now and still somehow he can’t tell them apart.

  95. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    Yes. TF was being ridiculous. You will get no disagreement from me there.

    And yet you apparently want to complain because PZ refused to pretend “Wahhh consenting adults!” was a real point, and refused to ignore the vast pile of shit in which Thunderf00t buried that shiny little bit of glass.

  96. Tethys says

    I lost a lot of respect for both parties involved.

    Perhaps this is due to the fact that you are hard of thinking?

    Your tedious trolling is noted tho.

    p.s. I do not give one single fuck for anyone (ie: hayden and TF) who defends misogyny and claims that attacking misogyny is equally as bad as espousing misogyny.

  97. life is like a pitbull with lipstick ॐ says

    Free Speech is the fundamental human right

    Hmmmmmm.

    I’m gonna have to say “no.”

    It’s possible to have freedom from want, without any freedom of speech. But it is not possible to have freedom of speech, without any freedom from want (you would die if you had zero freedom from want).

    Therefore, freedom from want is a more fundamental human right.

    You removing his website because you disagree on a matter of opinion makes you as bad as the papacy banning books, or Iran banning books, etc. etc….

    Both the Vatican and Iran are nation states. I wonder if this is important.

    Hmmm. Governments and speech. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

    I think I recall reading a pretty well established standard reference on this issue at one ti… oh here it is:

    “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

    +++++
    Is FreethoughtBlogs a government entity?

    Or is it Brayton’s property?

    Does Brayton have a right to kick people off his property?

    Is being kicked off another person’s property “as bad” as being kicked off public property?

  98. Louis says

    I was raped to death by jaguars in the Yucatan once.*

    I got better.

    Louis

    * Just remember that being raped to death by a jaguar in the Yucatan is a serious crime. Being accused of being a jaguar who rapes people to death in the Yucatan is also a serious crime. And therefore both sides have their hands covered in jaguar poo.

  99. says

    Hayden also believes that one of the World Trade Center towers was destroyed in a controlled demolition, that 3 million Jews died in the Holocaust, that the universe is 6.9 billion years old, that Obama was partially born in the US, and that Loch Ness contains half a monster.

  100. says

    Also Tfs writing sucked. That alone should be enough to dump his blog

    Yes. This. It isn’t snobbery, either. Comradde Physioproffe has often been accused of bad writing on FTB (because of his olde english e’s and cursing), but you understand what the fuck he is trying to say. That should be a minimum requirement for getting hosted on FTB.

  101. whheydt says

    Who was it that said, “Freedom of the press doesn’t mean YOUR freedom of MY press”?

    FtB is Ed & PZ’s “press”.

    –W. H. Heydt

  102. life is like a pitbull with lipstick ॐ says

    Any good reading materials on general (or specifically group-oppression-related) “both sides” arguments? Besides that XKCD comic?

    I want to link them from the wiki.

  103. says

    After reading that fanboi screed I feel slightly bad for Thunderfoot.

    Karpad, there is one good thing about those kind of commentors on New Statesman. No matter how many others tell you you are wrong, or are being too shrill and just making a fuss… when you read those comments you know damn well that you are in the right. Because anyone writing that stuff has to be utterly indifferent, cruel and frankly… thick as pigshit.

  104. life is like a pitbull with lipstick ॐ says

    And therefore both sides have their hands covered in jaguar poo.

    I lol’d.

  105. Drolfe says

    I can’t remember at this point, did any of Tf00t’s posts on this topic include the word “consent” or “consenting”? Iirc, that’s part of what made that first post about leg biting so dumb. We all thought, duh consent, and he was all triplicate thought police killjoys!!

  106. ImaginesABeach says

    Chas @ 81 -

    I read the comment by Ze Madmax and concluded, as you did, that it was in violation of the New Coyote Rules. I could not, however, have responded as well as you did.

    Please accept a silent round of applause in lieu of an offer of some quantity of internets.

  107. says

    haha missed this in the video description:

    There is also a litany of other reason why I do not hold freethoughtblogs in high regard. Chief among these was their pressure on me to yield to someone WHO STATED THAT THEY WERE USING COPYRIGHT LAW (not for protection of copyright) BUT TO STIFFLE DEBATE

    MY DEBATE! ITS BEEN STIFFLED!

    He is like 12, emotionally speaking. Jesus.

  108. says

    feralboy:

    I, too, have noticed with ever growing concern the complete disappearance from the internet of Thunderfoot since you went all Nacht Und Nebel on his ass.

    Careful, there, Orac may suddenly pop up shove a Hitler Zombie in your face… ;)

  109. Hayden says

    @115

    The fact that you decide to present TF’s posts in a positive light and to pretend they contained simple, reasonable, easy to understand nuggets of wisdom – when in fact they were incoherent messes of verbal diarrhea – tells me all I need to know about you and how honest you are about this.

    I think verbal diarrhea is a very accurate assessment of TF’s first post. I didn’t think a detailed dissection of TF’s writing was necessary, because I didn’t think people here needed to be reminded what a poor showing TF made.

  110. says

    Have the Foot’s fanboys yet made a point that can’t be summed up with “it’s only free speech if you agree with me?” Because god-fucking-damn, the company one keeps says loads — particularly about his ability to convey the basics of free thought. Based on these idiots I’d dare say he’s a fucking failure.

  111. says

    For some reason TF interprets this as deputizing a squad of fun police who have lists of pre-approved fun activities, and straying outside these guidelines will result in some sort of punishment.

    yep. “for some reason”. we don’t know why. this mystifying behavior has never at all occurred before and is not at all part of a pattern that manifests every time a feminist policy is adopted, be it harassment policies at atheist conferences or policies that would allow women to wear shoes other than high-heels at work.

  112. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    yep. “for some reason”. we don’t know why. this mystifying behavior has never at all occurred before and is not at all part of a pattern that manifests every time a feminist policy is adopted, be it harassment policies at atheist conferences or policies that would allow women to wear shoes other than high-heels at work.

    This.
    Thank you.

  113. Duncan says

    Oh no, another entitled internet asshole who equates their freedom of speech with someone else’s compulsion to provide a platform for them.

    The owners of any blog or forum that you use have the right to ban you on a whim. The better blogs and forums are run by people who generally wait for you to give them a good reason to ban you. The worst are free of all moderation.

  114. says

    Ok having listened to his video well 2/3 of it I can’t help but wonder if he was trying to push the limits. He makes the point over and over again that they wouldn’t censor based on content. Combined with the tone of his post its almost like he took it as a challenge. Let’s pick a fight with several other bloggers right of the bat with ill informed posts. Doesn’t fact check a damn thing and barely interacts in the conversation. To top it off the whole thing was formatted like the usual trollish rants on the internet.

    I’m just left with the impression it was one big attempt to troll the rules and see just how much shit he could get away with.

  115. says

    He seems to think free use means that he is free to use whatever copyrighted material he wants. Was it too much to spend five minutes reading the Wikipedia page? His situation is very similar to one of their counter-examples.

  116. reasonable fellow says

    There is also a litany of other reason why I do not hold freethoughtblogs in high regard. Chief among these was their pressure on me to yield to someone WHO STATED THAT THEY WERE USING COPYRIGHT LAW (not for protection of copyright) BUT TO STIFFLE DEBATE

    Does FTB have a revenue sharing policy amongst its authors? I’m betting that it does and the only reason he took it down at all is because ‘fair use’ argument doesn’t fucking apply when you’ve got ads all over the page.

  117. Hayden says

    I’m just left with the impression it was one big attempt to troll the rules and see just how much shit he could get away with.

    Pretty much. He decides to stir the shit with his first post, then cries about the backlash. He tries to equate it to academic freedom, but misses the fact that tenure (how academic freedom is protected) has to be earned.

  118. What a Maroon, Applied Linguist of Slight Foreboding says

    PZ won’t provide me with a platform! Help! Help! I’m being repressed!

  119. Louis says

    Stiffle debate…

    {snigger, giggle}

    Oh yeah, my debate’s stiffled.

    Louis

  120. reasonable fellow says

    “We Are Ing The Matrimonial Collective”
    6 July 2012 at 2:28 pm
    Wtf? Tfoot is complaining about abuse of copyright to stop discusion? Isn’t that the same guy who used a DMCA case as leverage to make a creatonist do a little dance and disapear for a while

    Well, yes, but they also told the creationists dad on him.

    Ah, the academic arena.

  121. says

    What is it most IRC servers always post when you log on…

    Ah, here it is:

    However, some rules exist to prevent abuse and make the network a better place. Use of an IRC network is a privilege, not a right; abuse of privilege will lead to loss of privilege. Server administrators have absolute say over whether you are allowed to use their server or not.

    Sounds reasonable enough. I don’t recall anyone complaining about that.

    But apparently if you’re feminazistasibullies, you lose all property rights.

  122. says

    Seriously, PZ. I think you owe me, Cipher, and What a Maroon our own blogs. In the interest of free expression and whatnot.

    I want one too! Stiffling (a combination of stifling and sniffling) is something no internetian deserves.

  123. says

    @SC #40:

    Just send Justin Griffith to reason with them.

    It’s sadly ironic, in the light of his falling out with Greg Laden, to note that about a year ago, just after Elevatorgate started, Greg tried just that for a time with ERV and her commentariat… Didn’t work very well either.

    @ChasPeterson #55:

    Oh, nice one!

    @Audley #68:

    PZ!
    I can haz free speech, too? You’re squashing my First Amendment rights by not giving me a blog!

    Yeah! J*hn Kw*k was a piker to demand only a Leica Rangefinder! Blogs for everybody or no True Free Speech™!

  124. life is like a pitbull with lipstick ॐ says

    What a dumbass.

    There is also a litany of other reason why I do not hold freethoughtblogs in high regard. Chief among these was their pressure on me to yield to someone WHO STATED THAT THEY WERE USING COPYRIGHT LAW (not for protection of copyright) BUT TO STIFFLE DEBATE

    Turns out the law doesn’t care. If you violate someone’s copyright, and they decide to pursue you because they don’t like what you said, the law is still on their side. (Property law does not conform to toddlers’ expectations about fairness.)

    I doubt that what the copyright holder stated was as straightforward as what Thunderfoot claims here, since he’s known to distort others’ meanings, but even if it were exactly as he claims, Brayton would still be legally compelled.

  125. dapartypoopah says

    If TF wasn’t banned what happened? Advised to leave? An offer to resign? You mean that kind of deal?

  126. says

    WHO STATED THAT THEY WERE USING COPYRIGHT LAW (not for protection of copyright) BUT* TO STIFFLE DEBATE

    Sounds angry. Hope he deosn’t have a riffle.

    *The “BUT” should be inside the parentheses, fool.

  127. Tethys says

    Hayden

    I didn’t think people here needed to be reminded what a poor showing TF made.

    If you agree that TF made a poor showing (which is a massive understatement BTW), then why this?

    I lost a lot of respect for both parties involved.

    These two statements aren’t really compatible IMO.

  128. reasonable fellow says

    You stiffled my arguments against da cock-blocking. Your a real jerk, bozo.

  129. socratic jaguar ॐ says

    #FTBullies don’t think adding jaguars improves the Socratic Method.

    “Like jaguars through the Yucatan, so are the days of our lives.”

  130. What a Maroon, Applied Linguist of Slight Foreboding says

    O brave new world / That has such people in’t.

    ‘Tis new to thee.

  131. otrame says

    You know, raped to death in the Yucatan by jaguars…. Where in hell did he come up with that and what was the point? It sounded like someone trying to be like the nastier sort of commenter we’ve had and not knowing quite how to do it.

    And BTW, Josh, you wanting your Internet delivered in the rear is an example of earning a double Internet. And also shows why panti liners were such an important invention for us seniors.

  132. Tethys says

    I’m just left with the impression it was one big attempt to troll the rules and see just how much shit he could get away with.

    Too bad he can’t seem to care about all the people he continues to splash with shit.

  133. dapartypoopah says

    “he got fired. which is not the same as banned. do you understand this, or must I explain the difference?”

    What is the problem? Is it really so hard to just say he was fired? Why the need for such a condescending attitude? In the future shall I just stfu till some atheists pope informs my unworthy peasant mind what I should and shouldn’t know?

  134. says

    life is like a pitbull with lipstick ॐ

    Okay, I totally read your comment @120 in the voice of the chamberlain from The Dark Crystal.

  135. Hayden says

    If you agree that TF made a poor showing (which is a massive understatement BTW), then why this?

    I lost a lot of respect for both parties involved.

    Because they’re not mutually exclusive statements. TF made a poor showing, so I lost respect for him. PZ also made a bad showing, so I lost respect for him, too.

  136. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    You have not tried to have Tf00t killed yet(my, what restraint you have), but at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to see that either.

    Ann Romney, is that you?

  137. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    In the future shall I just stfu till some atheists pope informs my unworthy peasant mind what I should and shouldn’t know?

    You want to know something?

    That is a fucking fabulous idea!

    You should shut the fuck up until there is an atheist pope.

  138. says

    In the future shall I just stfu till some atheists pope informs my unworthy peasant mind what I should and shouldn’t know?

    or, you could just fucking read the thread in which you’re posting, since people already said he was fired before you asked.

  139. reasonable fellow says

    You know, raped to death in the Yucatan by jaguars…. Where in hell did he come up with that and what was the point? It sounded like someone trying to be like the nastier sort of commenter we’ve had and not knowing quite how to do it.

    It sounds to me as if he returned to that sentence a few times to add extra levels of weird vitriol.

  140. FluffyTheTerrible says

    @ Hayden

    If you agree that TF made a poor showing (which is a massive understatement BTW), then why this?

    I lost a lot of respect for both parties involved.

    Because they’re not mutually exclusive statements. TF made a poor showing, so I lost respect for him. PZ also made a bad showing, so I lost respect for him, too.

    Again with equating two things that couldn’t be any more dissimilar and trying to vilify both, although only one truly merits vilification.

    OK, in your own words, what made you lose respect for PZ?
    That’s like saying – prepare to be Godwinned – that you lost respect for the Nazis for what they did, but you also lost respect for the prosecutors at the Nurenberg trial because..I don’t know…they weren’t nice enough.

  141. Tethys says

    Because they’re not mutually exclusive statements. TF made a poor showing, so I lost respect for him. PZ also made a bad showing, so I lost respect for him, too.

    Logic fail.

    This is victim-blaming. The fact that PZ did not react to TF’s misogyny in the exact perfect manner which you would prefer is not a valid criticism.

  142. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Hayden –> Killfile. Just because it doesn’t know enough to STFU with terminal insipidity, I don’t have to listen to it…

  143. says

    dapartypoopah:

    What is the problem? Is it really so hard to just say he was fired? Why the need for such a condescending attitude? In the future shall I just stfu till some atheists pope informs my unworthy peasant mind what I should and shouldn’t know?

    So, you didn’t know anything about the argument you were diving into? You just jumped in, opened your mouth, and proceeded to gnaw on your feet?

    I’m not sure you need an Atheist Pope* to give you knowledge. You might try to do that for yourself once in a while.

    * An excellent suggestion, BTW. I can imagine nothing so useless, and I’m a fan of useless things. Which probably explains why I’m responding to you.

  144. socratic jaguar ॐ says

    You know, raped to death in the Yucatan by jaguars…. Where in hell did he come up with that

    Probably riffing from S. M. Stirling:

    This book is technically fairly well executed, but politically leaves me cross-eyed. Warning for sexual violence, weird race issues, and general ookiness. … She is captured, and ceremonially raped by a jaguar as a precursor to being used as a human sacrifice.

    Derivative!

  145. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Nerd, what restraint you are showing by not killing Hayden by dropping a file on Hayden. Because we all so want to kill that person.

  146. Khantron, the alien that only loves says

    That first post of his started out so badly I think he should have been thrown out right away. Seriously people on the internet call other people “racist,” “bigot,” and “misogynist” for a reason. It’s because a lot of people on the internet are being racist, bigoted, and misogynistic.

    Seriously when thunderf00t and Patcondell went on their “bomb those dirty muslims and don’t let them emigrate away from oppressive theocracies” ranting their subscriber bases exploded. TheAmazingAtheist slags feminists and his subscriber count isn’t hurt, it’s helped. Misogyny, bigotry, and racism is everywhere on the internet. I blame Reagan, personally.

    Also Thunderf00t had no respect for the facts. He called the Tantive IV a cruiser. Seriously? Here’s a clue, a cruiser isn’t going to be completely dwarfed by a destroyer.

  147. ChasCPeterson says

    I’m just left with the impression it was one big attempt to troll the rules and see just how much shit he could get away with.

    Totally. The key line in his PZ vid (which he mutters really quickly and with no visual reinforcement) is at 1:22:

  148. What a Maroon, el papa ateo says

    You should shut the fuck up until there is an atheist pope.

    I suspect there’s been more than one.

  149. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    I blame Reagan, personally.

    Reagan is not the cause. He is their patron saint.

  150. Josh, Official Yucatan Jaguar says

    socratic jaguar ॐ–

    Jaguar-Twin powers activate! Form of: snark!

  151. ChasCPeterson says

    …just after he interprets PZ’s promise of 100% freedom of content as “as assurance of academic integrity” *eyeroll*:

    Now, to an extent such liberties exist only as long as you can use them. So, I decided to challenge the plurality on a point that I thought they were way off base on…

    which turns out to be a “disproportionate amount of time” spent on sexual harassment and “supporting crazies like Rebecca Watson, who first went off the deep end with all that stuff about coffee and elevators…”

    He went in trolling.

  152. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    What A Maroon, I am sure their has been a few atheist popes over the centuries; for a long time the church was one of the few places where an ambitious commoner could gain real power.

    Perhaps I should say Pope Of Atheists. But in my defense, I was mockingly using the words of a fuckface.

  153. reasonable fellow says

    I don’t think he went in trolling. Its just back-pedalling bullshit.

    See guys. I didn’t make a fool of myself, I was trolling. You get it? Haha. Anyways, back to being cool and smart.

  154. ericpaulsen says

    Raped to death by jaguars? Isn’t that kind of random and unlikely? If he had really wanted to threaten PZ maybe he should have said he hoped PZ would accidentally stumble into one of their NAMBLA meetings and get raped to death. Given their hatred of women and the number of MRA assholes out there I think this is a far more realistic threat.

  155. jjgdenisrobert says

    Uh PZ: I fail to see the “rape fantasy” you promised in this letter. It’s not the best repartee, sure, but a “rape fantasy” it certainly ain’t. All it is is someone who’s pissed off at you. He’s wrong about the free-speech issue (since FTB is not a government institution, free speech doesn’t enter into it), but since I have yet to hear any cogent, verifiable reasons as to why tfoot was given the boot, I’ll agree with at least this: that there is every chance that tf00t was booted solely because he disagreed with you and Ed. Now, since this is Ed’s site, he has the right to boot anyone he wants. But BS’ing about the reasons is just infantile.

  156. says

    Sili:

    More like TF Kiss-players.

    I yield my internets to you.

    I don’t get the assertion that ThunderF00t and everyone else were arguing past each other, that both had legitimate points, yadda yadda. The “good” points of TFoot’s arguments were basic stuff that everyone accepted and had no trouble saying they accepted.

    The problem I had was that he and others were minimizing or even denying a problem an unprivileged group had and calling for silence. I’ve seen the same trope used against minority races, against LGBT’s, and even against atheists like myself. I may be white and male, but my atheism gives me at least some understanding into how privilege rationalizes itself into inaction because I’ve been subjected to some of those tropes by Christians arguing against expressing my grievances.

  157. What a Maroon, el papa ateo says

    What A Maroon, I am sure their has been a few atheist popes over the centuries; for a long time the church was one of the few places where an ambitious commoner could gain real power.

    Perhaps I should say Pope Of Atheists. But in my defense, I was mockingly using the words of a fuckface.

    Point taken. (To be honest, I was riffing off your post to show off my new ‘nym.)

  158. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    I fail to see the “rape fantasy” you promised in this letter. It’s not the best repartee, sure, but a “rape fantasy” it certainly ain’t.

    Read better.

    if you don’t all I can to is hope you get raped to death by Jaguars in the Yucatan.

    Given that you apparently don’t read shit before commenting on it, I’m not surprised you have yet to hear any cogent, verifiable reasons as to why tfoot was given the boot.

  159. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    I finally spotted my typo. Dammit, that is one of the most embarrassing ones.

  160. says

    Also Thunderf00t had no respect for the facts. He called the Tantive IV a cruiser. Seriously? Here’s a clue, a cruiser isn’t going to be completely dwarfed by a destroyer.

    He did WHAT?!

  161. Gregory Greenwood says

    Wow, Phil Krstulich really is a special snowflake isn’t he?

    The whole point of free-thinking is to express what you have been thinking to others; what would the point of Socrates’ trial have been if he had not made the impressive speeches he made?

    I love the fact that his opening gambit is to compare Thunderf00t – an angry online ranter who loudly demands that people respect his ‘right’ to chow down on the leg of any woman who catches his eye – to one of the most famous thinkers of the classical period.

    I haven’t had that good a laugh in a while.

    If the people judging him had simply written him off as ‘too out there’ and simply condemned him five minutes into his talking?

    Well, Socrates did have the advantage of actually making sense… I know, I know ’twas a dirty trick to make effective use of logic and reason, but he was a bit like that.

    Also, I would like to raise a point of order – PZ and others did not dismiss Thunderf00t after five minutes. They read his screeds first (and, given how poorly they were written, that probably took a while), and only then came to the entirely reasonable conclusion that he was a pompous prat swimming in his own private ocean of unexamined cis/het male privilege.

    The point I’m trying to make is that as much as I think Watson is at a minimum misguided,

    I know! I mean, who decapitates a poor chap and rips his spinal column from his rapidly cooling corpse for a trophy merely for asking them to go back to their room for ‘coffee’?

    … No, wait, that’s not right. All Watson did was say ‘guys don’t do that’. No Predator-esque decapitations/vertebrae theft in sight.

    How was that ‘at a minimum misguided’? Isn’t she allowed to object to some cluless dood cornering her an elevator at 4 AM to proposition her after she expressly stated that she was tired and wanted to sleep, and had just finished giving an address in which she had expressed how annoying she finds such behaviour? I wonder what Krstulich thinks her mistake was, other than failing to fall down immediately and worship teh mighty pee-pee, of course?

    you are culpable for much worse. Free Speech is the fundamental human right; without it, we are all doomed. You removing his website because you disagree on a matter of opinion makes you as bad as the papacy banning books, or Iran banning books, etc. etc….

    I don’t think this chap has a very good grasp of the internet if he thinks that Thunderf00t being booted off Freethought Blogs will take away his freedom of speech.

    Thunderf00t is free to be an insufferable misogynist on his own blog and all over much of teh intertoobs, where his particular brand of entitled tomfoolery will doubtless be welcomed with open arms – his freedom of speech is in no way dependent on his ability to post on FTB.

    It would take a spectacularly dishonest or epicly oblivious person to consider that the equivalent of book burnings. Fortunately, Krstulich seems to have both those bases well covered.

    In other words, by shutting off free expression you have sauntered effortlessly to lines the old and evil; too much information is bad, we decide what you should be exposed to, let’s have Salman Rushdie killed for writing something we don’t agree with. You have not tried to have Tf00t killed yet(my, what restraint you have), but at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to see that either.

    Oh, PZ, you and your ninja cephalopod death squads…

    Seriously though – Krstulich actually thinks that it is credible that PZ means to have Thunderfoot killed? He really has traded reality for paranouid delusion.

    You’re supposed to be a scientist; a little open-mindedness goes a long way in investigating the truth.

    It is news to me that uncritically accepting the claims of misogynists is now a requirement of rigorous scientific endeavour…

    In this modern world the only way to survive and live well is to laugh, rather than cry… A little cynicism never hurt anyone.

    I am pretty sure that being cynical about the proposition; ‘women are human beings too, and should be accorded the fundamental respect that all people deserve’ most certainly does hurt people.

    Anyway, I don’t believe I shall be reading your blogs any more; at least until you apologize to Mr. f00t

    Oh teh noes! Some random angry dudebro isn’t going to read Pharyngula anymore? However are you going to cope now, PZ?

    As threats go, this has to be on a par with threatening atheists with the fires of a hell that doesn’t exist.

    if you don’t all I can to is hope you get raped to death by Jaguars in the Yucatan.

    Now that is just weird. And rather nasty, like all rape fantasies. I think we have a Hoggler here…

    What is the betting that the defence of Krstulich or others like him will be “but you tell people to stick decaying porcupines up their bottoms all the time”. The difference being that we invite people to do that to themselves when they have been behaving rather badly (usually being revoltingly bigoted, or otherwise being disgusting by doing such things as engaging in rape fantasies like Krstulich), whereas Krstulich and his ilk specifically fantasise about the rape of the target of their ire by a third party (even where the choice of hypothetical rapists is deliberately ridiculous, as in this case).

    Next time think with your brain instead of your balls…

    The projection is strong with this one…

    and maybe over time I’ll grow to trust and respect you again. until then, eat shit.

    Krstulich Imagines that PZ craves his approval? Aww, naivete like that is kinda cute…

    I mean, you’re supposed to be a scientist, for Christ’s sake.

    Why does this guy think he is the arbiter of what constitues a ‘true’ scientist, I wonder?

    someone who actually believes in equality of right for all humankind…

    And yet, just a few lines before;

    I could swear some more but based off what I know of you you’re probably bawling already. Nobody likes a crybaby. You old cunt.

    Oh look – a gendered insult paired with a crass and toxic meme about the ‘acceptable’ performance of stoic, unemotional masculinity.

    It appears that Krstulich isn’t smart enough to realise that he is broadcasting his hypocrisy here. I imagine it is but one of the many, many things he is not smart enough to grasp…

  162. Josh, Official Yucatan Jaguar says

    Raped to death by jaguars? Isn’t that kind of random and unlikely?

    You’d be surprised. It isn’t talked about openly but most assaults are committed by draguars. These are roving gangs of male jaguars in feminine finery (falsies, sequined gowns, etc.). Their attacks are almost always preceded by a string of shoe burglaries in rural villages. High heels are disproportionately likely to be stolen*

    *Incidentally this is how conservationists estimate draguar populations. If 40 pairs of heels in Village A go missing in one night you know there are 20 draguars in the vicinity

  163. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    What A Maroon, it there a title that you demand that you be called.

    The only problem it this, I will ignore the demand and the title.

    And want to kill you. But my restraint will make me look good.

  164. interrobang says

    Apparently, on the Internet, it is too much to ask to be allowed to bounce someone down your front steps on their ear if you invite them to dinner and they proceed to squat on your Persian rug and take a huge steaming dump. That’s a speech act, don’t you know, and everyone must be free at all times to say anything they want, unless it’s feminist or translates to “Will you creeps knock that off already?” As we used to say in my misspent yout’, some people’s children…!

    Also, Josh, I love you in a completely platonic way, but in context, isn’t being all jaguary right here right now sort of like pinning a giant “I AM A RAPIST” sign on yourself? I get the joke, but I’m a little weirded out by it anyway.

  165. viggen111 says

    The whole point of free-thinking is to express what you have been thinking to others; what would the point of Socrates’ trial have been if he had not made the impressive speeches he made? If the people judging him had simply written him off as ‘too out there’ and simply condemned him five minutes into his talking?

    A big contingent of the free thought movement thinks that “free thought” means “no limits at all.” Some limits are needed or codes of civil conduct between humans would not be possible. Taken too far, there’s bound to be a problem. “Free speech” has always been a tenuous freedom because lies, libel and slander are all technically protected by it, and sometimes shouldn’t be. What we are seeing in this entire controversy, right back to elevator gate and peoples’ unwillingness to simply adhere to a civil code of conduct and to accuse people like PZ of being fascist or two-faced is the result of expecting no limits and then becoming surprised to learn that they are actually expected to adhere to some. Any limit appears fascist if you don’t want to see it imposed on you.

  166. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    Sounds angry. Hope he deosn’t have a riffle.

    I couldn’t stop laughing for a disproportionately long time after reading this.

  167. Tethys says

    Jaguar-Twin powers activate! Form of: snark!

    I am now giggling madly over the cartoon image in my head Of Josh and SJ in the form of a giant anatomically correct jaguar dildo-cluebat as a visual representation of snark.

  168. says

    Uh PZ: I fail to see the “rape fantasy” you promised in this letter.

    What part of “hope you get raped by jaguars in the Yucatan” don’t you understand?

    but since I have yet to hear any cogent, verifiable reasons as to why tfoot was given the boot

    Reasons have been given. The fact that you haven’t heard them is probably a function of those “reading for comprehension” skills that you demonstrated with the first blockquote I pasted.

  169. Josh, Official Yucatan Jaguar says

    I get the joke, but I’m a little weirded out by it anyway.

    And I’m more than a little weirded out by your defense of male circumcision recently, especially when you described it in terms of the “end-user” experience. Are we even?

  170. What a Maroon, el papa ateo says

    Janine,

    “Su pulpostad” will do quite nicely.

    And if you ever lose your restraint, promise me that you’ll saute me in olive oil with some garlic and a touch of pimenton.

  171. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    If you are ever in danger of being raped to death by jaguars in the Yucatan, you need only summon Ixchel. As the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war, she is obviously an early radical feminist, so she’ll have your back.

  172. ChasCPeterson says

    Couple more Tf snippets I transcribed. He is either himself ignorant of the meaning of the term ‘freethought’ or he is disingenuously encouraging that confusion in his viewers. He also is the source of the “banned from FTB” claim. Further, he claims to have been “banned” for “minor political dissent” about “feminism”.

    It seems that freethought really did not extend as far as some minor political dissent on [Myers's] views on feminism.

    I know what a lot of you are thinking: ”Freethought’ Blogs’ actually banned you?! Are you kidding me? [comparison of 'freethought blogs' to Orwellian government departments]…
    ‘FTB where you’ve got absolute freedom to think as freely as you want, as long as those free thoughts actually agree with ours.’ [visually reinforced]

  173. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    I will never be able to unsee that.

    *wobble wobble*

  174. #FTBully Foot Soldier says

    It seems that freethought really did not extend as far as some minor political dissent on [Myers's] views on feminism.

    And that, right there, is thunderf00t’s problem in a nutshell. What he considers minor is a big fucking deal to lots of us, and instead of recognizing that, he continues to double down.

    Good riddance.

  175. nonny says

    I know it’s your blog and you can post what you like but I don’t think this guy deserves the publicity you’ve given him. He’s trying so hard to be edgy but he just comes off as a boring troll. I want the thirty seconds it took to read his rant back.

  176. What a Maroon, el papa ateo says

    nonny,

    You’re in luck. One of the magical powers vested in me is the ability to restore time lost in reading inane internet posts. Now just close your eyes and count slowly…

    One one thousand
    Two one thousand

    Twenty-nine one thousand
    Thirty one thousand

  177. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Nonny, do you seriously think that if PZ just said nothing else about ThunderingFool, the latest clusterfuck would just end?

  178. fredsalvador says

    You removing his website because you disagree on a matter of opinion makes you as bad as the papacy banning books

    I’m wondering how long it took him to think up Vatican City as an alternative to the Third Reich. When Hitler stops being shocking, there’s always Reductio Ad Pontifex!

    Something I find amusing about the whole “Dr Phil blows a gasket” saga is that Dr Phil and his defenders within the secular community seem to think FtB, a blogging hub run by avowed feminist PZ Myers, should for some reason allow people who misconstrue, misrepresent or miss the point entirely on gender equality the same ‘right to reply’ they quite rightly deny to creationists who misconstrue, misrepresent and miss the point of science.

    If you’re going to host Thunderfunk’s blog, why not extend Ian Juby the same courtesy? At least Juby’s ridiculous evidences for God are sometimes funny, whereas Dr Phil’s tendency to piss, moan, and send forth his braying hordes every time someone dares to tell him he’s talking shite gets very old very fast.

  179. Tethys says

    I will never be able to unsee that.

    *wobble wobble*

    I apologize for that. My brain is somewhat delirious due to day 5 of living in a sauna.

    Feline peni are scary! Do not google!

  180. says

    To state the obvious:

    It’s not fair to make any inferences about Thunderf00t’s character based on an absolutely fucking asinine letter just because this guy is a fan of Thunderf00t.

    I hope nobody is.

  181. ImaginesABeach says

    I’m not usually one for conspiracy theories, but I have to wonder if t00t didn’t do this whole thing just to get more subscribers.

    FTB provides a lot of exposure, doesn’t it? And I suspect there are a lot of people who had never heard of t00t before that are hoggling madly to his videos.

  182. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    To state the obvious:

    It’s not fair to make any inferences about Thunderf00t’s character based on an absolutely fucking asinine letter just because this guy is a fan of Thunderf00t.

    I hope nobody is.

    Why would you post something like this?

  183. ChasCPeterson says

    Inferences about Thunderf00t’s character can be drawn readily enough from his own fucking asinine writings.

  184. ImaginesABeach says

    M.A. Melby -

    I don’t think anyone needs to consider his fans before judging his character. He put his character right out there on the curb with the garbage.

  185. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    It’s not fair to make any inferences about Thunderf00t’s character based on an absolutely fucking asinine letter just because this guy is a fan of Thunderf00t.

    There is no need to. Most of us have already inferred ThunderingFool’s character based on his own words.

  186. says

    It’s not fair to make any inferences about Thunderf00t’s character based on an absolutely fucking asinine letter just because this guy is a fan of Thunderf00t.

    I hope nobody is.

    I don’t think we have actually. Maybe a bit of light allusion for comic purposes. I think TF’s character more than speaks for itself frankly.

  187. Brownian says

    It’s not fair to make any inferences about Thunderf00t’s character based on an absolutely fucking asinine letter just because this guy is a fan of Thunderf00t.

    Thunderf00t, the racist, sexist, half-wit?

    Regression to the mean suggests that making inferences about his character based on other people could only help his reputation.

    If you take the average of Thunderf00t and Phil Krstulich you end up with a passably literate Thunderf00t.

    It may not be fair to do so, but it’s an improvement.

  188. charlessoto says

    Whacko. But, having just walked through the Hall of the Americas at the Houston Museum of Natural Science, I appreciated the jaguar thing. There were some really cool antiquities there. And the Paleo Hall was very nice. My son enjoyed the planetarium’s show on black holes.

  189. reasonable fellow says

    M. A. Melby
    6 July 2012 at 3:59 pm
    To state the obvious:

    It’s not fair to make any inferences about Thunderf00t’s character based on an absolutely fucking asinine letter just because this guy is a fan of Thunderf00t.

    Well tough luck sonny-jim because i’m going to anyway. This guy is thunderf00ts fanbase nowadays because his (tf00ts) arguments are so abysmally poor that only total shit-heads like this guy could possibly agree with them.

  190. fredsalvador says

    It’s not fair to make any inferences about Thunderf00t’s character based on an absolutely fucking asinine letter just because this guy is a fan of Thunderf00t.

    I hope nobody is.

    So do I, because it’s completely unneccesary. Anyone who has ever watched one of Dr Phil’s “dramas” play out can see how puerile, crass, and narcissistic he is; all good qualities when it comes to debunking creationist fuck-poop in an entertainingly condescending manner, but which serve you poorly when you’re trying to pull a community together.

  191. truebutnotuseful says

    Phil Krstulich wrote:

    I don’t believe I shall be reading your blogs any more; at least until you apologize to Mr. f00t

    It amuses me to no end that Phil Krstulich seems to think Thunderf00t’s actual name is Thunder F00t. As in “I hope you enjoy your stay with us, Mr. F00t” or “shall I have your ladyleg pre-warmed, Mr. F00t?”

    You have not tried to have Tf00t killed yet(my, what restraint you have), but at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to see that either.

    Always with the accusations of violence. Why are they so quick to go there? Projection?

  192. fastlane says

    After reading through the comments, I got this disturbing image of PZ going all Oprah…

    You get a blog, and you get a blog, and YOU get a blog…..

    I think I need some stronger drink.

  193. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    I don’t believe I shall be reading your blogs any more; at least until you apologize to Mr. f00t

    Reminds me of when Meatloaf was referred as Mr Loaf.

  194. says

    MA Melby:

    I hope nobody is.

    You’re fucking kidding, right? I’m sorry, but T’f00t has made enough of an ass of himself in the past few weeks that seeing this kind of reaction from one of his supporters is not a fucking surprise.

    WON’T SOMEONE THINK OF THE THUNDERF00TS!

  195. Brownian says

    Always with the accusations of violence. Why are they so quick to go there? Projection?

    No, they’re just incredibly fucking stupid human beings.

  196. fastlane says

    I think TF’s character more than speaks for itself frankly.

    In caps lock, neon letters. It’s clear, if not exactly eloquent.

  197. says

    Raped to death by Jaguars in the Yucatan? I wonder how long that took them. It’s obviously their version of the decaying porcupine meme.

    I did get a laugh out of the Slime Pit’s tagline, “porcupine free since 2012″. These assclowns are endlessly amusing when it comes to their notion of free speech and free thought.

  198. says

    It amuses me to no end that Phil Krstulich seems to think Thunderf00t’s actual name is Thunder F00t.

    If you want to get real formal, it’s Mr. Thunder J. Foot, Jr., I think.
    I did once tell a troll to call me “Mr. 12″ but I suspect I would have become confused had he actually done so.

  199. Tethys says

    I appreciated the jaguar thing.

    What?! You appreciate rape fantasies featuring South American felines?

    That’s disgusting!

    penes

    Yup, brain officially melted now.

  200. allencdexter says

    I’m still a bit hazy as to the substance of this dispute. I’m also a free thinker and have my own blog on blogger. I say whatever I wish anytime I wish and I’m sure a lot of people don’t like what I have to say. They can start their own blogs any time they wish, so I’m certain this blogger can do the same.

    There are a lot of blogs I’m aware of but don’t regularly visit just because they don’t really appeal to me, not necessarily because I violently disagree with them. PZ’s blog is one of my daily musts. He’s clear, concise and logical. Even though he’s a scientist, I don’t need a Phd to understand his posts.

    This vitriol is a bit disconcerting. Like Rodney King, I wonder why we can’t all just get along.

  201. amblebury says

    Crispy Creme Christ on an Incredulity Cracker, that was a bit much to wake up to.

    Chap seems a tad upset.

  202. Kalliope says

    jjgdenisrobert
    6 July 2012 at 3:12 pm
    Uh PZ: I fail to see the “rape fantasy” you promised in this letter.

    jjg was promised a rape fantasy and he is sorely disappointed. I feel for him. The sweet expectation of the desired thing, only to find out it wasn’t there… Like opening the fridge and expecting that last piece of pie, only to find it isn’t there!

    He was promised!

  203. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    This vitriol is a bit disconcerting. Like Rodney King, I wonder why we can’t all just get along.

    Because it is fucking hard and rather dispiriting to treat people who think that woman either do not face harassment or should shut up about it with respect.

    Why is that so hard to understand?

  204. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    I’ll try, but I start having technical difficulties* with the blog software here whenever I change my nym away from a couple of old standards. This’s why I had to drop old man jenkins pretty quickly.

    *which are partly my fault and partly que sera sera

  205. Kalliope says

    This vitriol is a bit disconcerting. Like Rodney King, I wonder why we can’t all just get along.

    Rodney King was beaten to within an inch of his life by public officials. Those who rioted did so because they were outraged by years and years and years of abuse.

    If not for the abuse by those in power, there would have been no riots. Everyone would have gotten along.

  206. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Audley, follow the link that I provided. That should answer your question.

    *snicker*

  207. says

    allencdexter:

    This vitriol is a bit disconcerting. Like Rodney King, I wonder why we can’t all just get along.

    I’m sorry, what? This is a “must read daily blog” for you and you’ve never noticed that PZ (and the commenters) can be rather rude?

    Either you’re mind boggling stupid or you’re a liar. Which is it?

  208. CJO says

    Reminds me of when Meatloaf was referred as Mr Loaf.

    Or when Hitch kept calling Mos Def “Mr. Definitely” on Bill Maher, except, oh right, that was fucking hilarious, while Phil here is just pathetic and rather dim.

  209. Brownian says

    I’m sure a lot of people don’t like what I have to say.

    I wonder why we can’t all just get along.

    You’re so almost there.

  210. Tethys says

    I wonder why we can’t all just get along.

    Because rational people prefer not to make accommodation for, or associate with asshole misogynists? /wildguess

  211. pip r.lagenta says

    It looks as if freethoughtblogs is committing suicide. What’s up with that?

  212. Brownian says

    It looks as if freethoughtblogs is committing suicide. What’s up with that?

    Nothing, dear. Go back to having that dream in which you’re cognitively distinct from religious folk.

  213. Brownian says

    Janine’s link reminds me that I need to have the ol’ Q-tip up the P-tip test again.

  214. 'Tis Himself says

    Bad news for the dudebros. I’ve had a look around the shop and we’re fresh out of Yucatanian jaguars. We’ve got some Guatemalan jaguars but otherwise they’ll have to wait for a new shipment to arrive in six to eight months.

  215. kemist, Dark Lord of the Sith says

    policies that would allow women to wear shoes other than high-heels at work.

    There are places that force women to wear high heels at work ?!?

    My poor flat feet are curling in fright.

    I don’t think this would fly where I live though. All workers here are covered for accidents / work-related illnesses – health care and salary.

    No boss would willingly risk having to pay for the intensive orthopedic and physiotherapy care as well as the stiff fee that would undoubtedly result were they to force people into foot-destroying shoes.

    Plantar fascitis, anyone ?

  216. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    I need to have the ol’ Q-tip up the P-tip test again.

    pip pip!

  217. says

    Meh, these guys really think that not reading FTB blogs are going to be a severe punishment to this community.

    Please, be my guest and also boycott these sites by not commenting anymore.

  218. klatu says

    if you don’t all I can to is hope you get raped to death by Jaguars in the Yucatan

    You old cunt.

    Oh brother…
    You know, I did plan to refute this post in detail. But after that, nothing can be said. Nothing. There is no discussion. It is dead. DEAD!

  219. 'Tis Himself says

    There are restaurants which require waitresses, who are on their feet constantly, to wear heels.

  220. amblebury says

    Pene linguini.

    I once had the searingly brilliant idea of making a penis-shaped breakfast cereal…PORNFLAKES!

    I coulda been a contenda for the 1%.

  221. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Ambleberry, Pornflakes kind of bring to mind dried, well, secretions.

    *back away slowly*

  222. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Not if it pills first.

    Pornnuts.

    I.
    Must.
    Stop.

  223. Brownian says

    I once had the searingly brilliant idea of making a penis-shaped breakfast cereal…PORNFLAKES!

    Will it cure my grape nuts?

  224. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Audley, you have no case to complain. You are the one ordering Weenie Linguini.

    *snort*

  225. jochematteveld says

    Thunderf00t was being a complete idiot and an asshole, and utterly wrong. But removing his blog for it was simply abuse of your power as the admin here. I’d expect better from you; when someone thinks and says stupid things like these, they should be ridiculed and their arguments refuted, not censored (Yeah, I know you didn’t censor him completely and he still has his youtube channel and can still post comments).

    To make a long story short, my opinion of both of you has dropped quite a bit by this ridiculous business.

  226. What a Maroon, el papa ateo says

    Oh brother…
    You know, I did plan to refute this post in detail. But after that, nothing can be said. Nothing. There is no discussion. It is dead. DEAD!

    But he thanked PZed at the end. He was being civil. So you see, that makes it all better.

  227. says

    @293 First of all it was not PZs sole decision to fire Thunderf00t, especially since PZ doesn’t have that authority as Ed Brayton owns the network (though it’s run fairly democratically from what I understand).

    Second: what part of this being a privately owned blog network do you not understand? He was invited to participate and when he abused that invitation was was fired.

  228. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    So, jochematteveld, instead of lecturing about how badly PZ abused his power, what should have the FTB administration done.

    (Though to be honest, in light of ThunderingFool’s call for war against followers of islam, he should never have been invited to join. But a lot of people here also admired Hitchens.)

  229. Brownian says

    they should be ridiculed and their arguments refuted

    Thunderf00t made arguments?

    Did you read his blog posts?

  230. says

    “Why would you post something like this?”

    TF put his foot in his mouth badly (very badly). As many people pointed out, he spoke for himself and it’s absolutely fair to judge him on that basis.

    This is an individual’s letter and it’s MUCH worse than anything Thunderf00t has actually said (as far as I am aware) and I doubt very much that he would be anything but embarrassed and horrified that someone claiming to be his fan wrote this crap.

    So, yeah, I was just putting that out there – and it seems that very few people are falling into the “guilty by association” trap that was just placed on the floor.

  231. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    So happy we passed your test, M. A. Melby.

    (sarcasm)

  232. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    Melby, I didn’t ask why you think it would be wrong to judge TF by his fan’s stupid behavior. I asked why you would post something like that. If you had no evidence that anyone was doing that, why the vague finger-wagging at nobody? If you did have evidence that anyone was doing that, why the vague finger-wagging at nobody?

  233. Jessa says

    Awe, yeah! Amazon will gift wrap your order of Weenie Linguini!

    I’m giggling at the “Customers Who Bought This Item Also Bought” section includes:

    A different brand of penis pasta
    Super Fun Penis Candy
    Party Pecker Straws
    Blue Balls Penis Ice Cube Tray
    Crest 3-D White Advanced Vivid Whitening Strips

    I understand the penis novelty items, but a teeth whitening system?

  234. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Jessa, did you notice that Weenie Linguini had one Five Star review.

  235. What a Maroon, el papa ateo says

    Thunderf00t was being a complete idiot and an asshole, and utterly wrong.

    Good start….

    But removing his blog for it was simply abuse of your power as the admin here.

    Uh oh.

    Power corrupts, amirite?

    I’d expect better from you;

    You forgot “young man”.

    when someone thinks and says stupid things like these, they should be ridiculed and their arguments refuted,

    Ridicule and refutation at FTB? Perish the thought….

    not censored

    Yeah, PZ, you should really stop abusing your vast governmental powers. Next think you know, he’ll be taking away our virtual cupcakes.

    (Yeah, I know you didn’t censor him completely and he still has his youtube channel and can still post comments).

    Oh, wait, so you mean there are other obscure corners of the internet where he can post? So PZ isn’t all-powerful?

    Another illusion shattered.

    To make a long story short, my opinion of both of you has dropped quite a bit by this ridiculous business.

    And we’re all crying in our cornflakes over the news. Please, anonymous internet user, whatever can we do to win back your respect?

  236. Brownian says

    Oh, horrors! Your opinion meant so much.

    Not to further pile on jochematteveld, but I really do not get this weird obsession everyone’s supposed to have with the opinions of their fans.

    There’s all this blathering on and on about how the freethinking community is a beacon of rationality unto the darkness, and what’s the best argument people seem to come up with? “I don’t idolise you as much any more.”

    It’s like the community of skeptics is the living embodiment of sad trombone.

  237. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    jochematteveld,

    Thunderf00t was being a complete idiot and an asshole, and utterly wrong.

    Yes.

    But removing his blog for it was simply abuse of your power as the admin here.

    1) Why? You’ve simply asserted this. Support your assertion with logic and evidence.

    2) Why do you imagine that Myers did it, anyway? Isn’t Brayton is the owner of FTB?

    I’d expect better from you; when someone thinks and says stupid things like these, they should be ridiculed and their arguments refuted, not censored

    As you admit immediately afterwards, he hasn’t been censored.

    But let’s get Socratic and follow this notion where it leads.

    3) Here is a list of people who’ve been actually banned from this blog. Do you believe it’s wrong for all of them to have been banned; i.e., no commenter should ever be banned from any blog anwhere ever?

    4) Do you believe that private entities like Brayton/FtB are morally required to grant a platform for everyone else’s views, even though it costs money/time/effort to provide that platform?

    If you answered “no” to questions 3 or 4, please explain why a different principle should apply here.

    (Yeah, I know you didn’t censor him completely and he still has his youtube channel and can still post comments).

    5) Do you realize that if TF had been allowed to keep blogging, Brayton would have had to keep on paying him money?

    6) Do you believe that employers should be obliged to keep all employees, no matter what stupid shit they say, and keep on paying them indefinitely?

  238. says

    and their arguments refuted, not censored (Yeah, I know you didn’t censor him completely and he still has his youtube channel and can still post comments).

    Translation : You censored someone, except not really, and now i’m really angry. Because I as a random person on the internet Ishould get to tell Ed Brayton how to run his privately owned blog space.

    Grrrr….

    Grrr… I say.

  239. Brownian says

    This is an individual’s letter and it’s MUCH worse than anything Thunderf00t has actually said (as far as I am aware) and I doubt very much that he would be anything but embarrassed and horrified that someone claiming to be his fan wrote this crap.

    Did you read his blog posts?

  240. Tethys says

    jochemattveld, I already explained this one today, so I will just repost my #186.

    Because they’re not mutually exclusive statements. TF made a poor showing, so I lost respect for him. PZ also made a bad showing, so I lost respect for him, too.

    Logic fail.

    This is victim-blaming. The fact that PZ did not react to TF’s misogyny in the exact perfect manner which you would prefer is not a valid criticism

  241. says

    But removing his blog for it was simply abuse of your power as the admin here.

    No it wasn’t. Jesus Christ. What is it, exactly, about a private blog network you don’t grasp? Ed Brayton put this together and it’s at his (and the other bloggers) discretion to decide who and what content they want here. Rocket science it ain’t.

    Laden fucked up too and was uninvited. Hey, that’s part of life – figuring out that you have to take responsibility for your actions and words.

  242. says

    Janine:

    Audley, you have no case to complain. You are the one ordering Weenie Linguini.

    Dude. I was going to send it to you– why else would I have it gift wrapped?

    :p

    jochematteveld:

    But removing his blog for it was simply abuse of your power as the admin here.

    Remind me, what is an admin’s job again?

    … when someone thinks and says stupid things like these, they should be ridiculed and their arguments refuted, not censored

    By your own admission T’f00t wasn’t censored. Do you have a point or do you want a little bit of stinky cheese with your whine?

    To make a long story short, my opinion of both of you has dropped quite a bit by this ridiculous business.

    And I’m sure that there’s somebody, somewhere that honestly cares about your opinion.

    MA:

    So, yeah, I was just putting that out there – and it seems that very few people are falling into the “guilty by association” trap that was just placed on the floor.

    Jesus fucking Christ, what is it about Thunderf00t that brings out the trolling morons?

  243. says

    THe gallling thing about this bullshit move is that it seems to go against every principle of free expression you have been expounding for years.

    When did PZ advocate to give Ken Ham space at TAM? Or for that matter, at FTB?

    It looks as if freethoughtblogs is committing suicide. What’s up with that?

    What. Freethoughtblogs is a website, it is not a sentient being. What.

  244. says

    Jessa:

    I’m giggling at the “Customers Who Bought This Item Also Bought” section includes:

    A different brand of penis pasta
    Super Fun Penis Candy
    Party Pecker Straws
    Blue Balls Penis Ice Cube Tray
    Crest 3-D White Advanced Vivid Whitening Strips

    I understand the penis novelty items, but a teeth whitening system?

    Oh hey, if a dude is gonna impress the ladeez with all his mighty peen products, gotta have a pretty smile!

  245. Woo_Monster, Sniffer of Starfarts says

    I’d expect better from you; when someone thinks and says stupid things like these, they should be ridiculed and their arguments refuted, not censored (Yeah, I know you didn’t censor him completely and he still has his youtube channel and can still post comments).

    Fool. Removing a parasite from your network is not censorship.

    M.A. Melby,

    This is an individual’s letter and it’s MUCH worse than anything Thunderf00t has actually said (as far as I am aware) and I doubt very much that he would be anything but embarrassed and horrified that someone claiming to be his fan wrote this crap.

    What Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy said at #301

    So, yeah, I was just putting that out there…

    Don’t next time. At least without pointing out whom you think you are addressing.

  246. Woo_Monster, Sniffer of Starfarts says

    Did you read his blog posts?

    And have you seen what his fans typically act like?

  247. larryharnett says

    Geez, Louise. I’m an atheist, but you guys are starting to look like you’re trying to outdo religion with all the schisms and subgroups you’re forming, looking for or making up stuff to feud about. Think I’ll just take my lonely atheism and go elsewhere, thank you.

  248. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    larryharnett,

    Do you think we should agree about everything?

    Or do you just think we should stop talking about the things we disagree on?

  249. Woo_Monster, Sniffer of Starfarts says

    Think I’ll just take my lonely atheism and go elsewhere, thank you.

    The part I emphasized is lulzworthy.

  250. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Damn. He leaves before I have a chance to say; Hello, Larry!

    *hangs head in shame*

  251. Woo_Monster, Sniffer of Starfarts says

    Leave a little atheism behind for the rest of us!!!111!

  252. says

    Think I’ll just take my lonely atheism and go elsewhere, thank you.

    Aaaw, be sure to spread your lonely siren song all across the internet, Cupcake. I’m sure there’s another lonely Cupcake out there for you somewhere.

  253. fredsalvador says

    Think I’ll just take my lonely atheism and go elsewhere, thank you.

    Allow me to suggest “to hell”. It’s funny because it’s ironic, since I’m an atheist, and you’re an atheist, which means we’re all going to hell anyway.

  254. Brownian says

    Audley, I’ve read previous comments by M.A. Melby. I don’t know why xe’s saying such silly things, but xe’s no trolling moron.

  255. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Think I’ll just take my lonely atheism and go elsewhere, thank you.

    Ah gee, another MRA fuckwit we care nothing about, because at the end of the day it says nothing but attitude in its post. Actual evidence and arguments might make us care. But crockaduck tears with attitude? I don’t think so Tim…

  256. Woo_Monster, Sniffer of Starfarts says

    Setár, self-appointed Elf-Sheriff of the FreethoughtBlogs Star Chamber, #325, Ernst Hot’s link at #42 also discusses that game.

  257. Tethys says

    Think I’ll just take my lonely atheism and go elsewhere, thank you.

    Great idea! We’re full-up on idiots around here.

  258. says

    Thunderf00t was being a complete idiot and an asshole, and utterly wrong. But removing his blog for it was simply abuse of your power as the admin here. I’d expect better from you; when someone thinks and says stupid things like these, they should be ridiculed and their arguments refuted, not censored (Yeah, I know you didn’t censor him completely and he still has his youtube channel and can still post comments).

    To make a long story short, my opinion of both of you has dropped quite a bit by this ridiculous business.

    I presume also of Benson who was quite annoyed at TF as well, right?

    Cause everyone is just as bad.

  259. says

    Geez, Louise. I’m an atheist, but you guys are starting to look like you’re trying to outdo religion with all the schisms and subgroups you’re forming, looking for or making up stuff to feud about. Think I’ll just take my lonely atheism and go elsewhere, thank you.

    Ahh yes, I remember the good old days when all atheists were in 100% agreement, there was no diversity, and none of them were opinionated, and there were no comment threads.

    What in the world happened to atheism??????

  260. Pteryxx says

    Re Gregory Greenwood above, referring to Rebecca Watson:

    How was that ‘at a minimum misguided’? Isn’t she allowed to object to some cluless dood cornering her an elevator at 4 AM to proposition her after she expressly stated that she was tired and wanted to sleep, and had just finished giving an address in which she had expressed how annoying she finds such behaviour? I wonder what Krstulich thinks her mistake was, other than failing to fall down immediately and worship teh mighty pee-pee, of course?

    Hang on… she MADE A VIDEO giving her opinion. On youtube even. Isn’t that teh Free Speech these dudes keep banging on about? Or is Free Speech only a right accorded to real people guys?

  261. Antiochus Epiphanes says

    Think I’ll just take my lonely atheism and go elsewhere, thank you.

    Splitter.

  262. says

    I know I’m late to the party, and I haven’t read all the comments yet… but the whole DMCA abuse thing was a big thing on YouTube a few years ago, and that’s ACTUAL unfair silencing of people’s voices. That’s different from the members of FtB deciding that T-f00tie isn’t a good fit for this blog network. You’d think F00l & The Gang would be able to tell the difference.

  263. davidbohm says

    Loftus has written top 10 things he is against. top 3:

    1) Religious faith. My particular niche is arguing against Christianity, especially evangelicalism. Of course this means I am against pseudo-science and all faith-based reasoning in favor of evidence-based reasoning.

    2) Theocracies in their more extreme dictatorial forms as well as in elected officials and pundits within democracies like the US.

    3) Racism, Sexism, Misogyny, Homophobia and gay bashing. I am not diminishing these things by listing them all together. It’s just hard to know how to rank them. The common theme is that they stand in opposition to rich white heterosexual religious male power and privilege.

  264. says

    A different brand of penis pasta
    Super Fun Penis Candy
    Party Pecker Straws
    Blue Balls Penis Ice Cube Tray
    Crest 3-D White Advanced Vivid Whitening Strips

    I understand the penis novelty items, but a teeth whitening system?

    My guess: the first four are for the bachelorette party and the last for the wedding.

  265. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Loftus is against Racism, Sexism, Misogyny, Homophobia and gay bashing. yet he is angry at the people who are struggling against that.

  266. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    Think I’ll just take my lonely atheism and go elsewhere, thank you.

    Splitter.

    At least I died laughing.

    (Before the other jaguars got me.)

  267. Brownian says

    It was an awfully trollerific post, though.

    I can’t dispute that. But if memory seves, such posts are not hir usual MO.

  268. says

    You really have to ask?

    Hey, the net can be tricky. I just accidentally triggered a Justicar/ScentedNectar tag team match on twitter. Didn’t even know it was Justicar I was trying to talk to. He accused me of using guilt by association.

    Even if I were the type to do that, in Justicar’s case it would be overkill. He insisted I only hold him accountable for his own words.

    Will do. So much to choose from.

  269. Jessa says

    Janine and SC: Yeah, I thought of that connection about five seconds after hitting “Submit”. My brain is working slowly today.

  270. says

    FTB isn’t YouTube or Wrodpress. If one of those places had kicked Thunderf00t off for being a shitty writer and intellectually dishonest, I would complain. FTB isn’t about letting everyone have their say, though. Kicking THunderf00t off is no more an abuse of Ed and PZ’s power than not inviting him in the first place would have been.

  271. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Jessa, we are all sluggish in the US right now.

    It is too damned hot!

  272. truebutnotuseful says

    feralboy12 @ #250 wrote:

    If you want to get real formal, it’s Mr. Thunder J. Foot, Jr., I think.
    I did once tell a troll to call me “Mr. 12″ but I suspect I would have become confused had he actually done so.

    Jr., you say? I bet he’s always telling people “please, call me Thunder. Mr. F00t is my father.”

  273. says

    larryharnett, your atheism isn’t nearly as lonely as my atheism. My atheism is so lonely that it has to disbelieve in an inflatable God doll.

  274. says

    Jafafa Hots:

    I just accidentally triggered a Justicar/ScentedNectar tag team match on twitter.

    Heh. Neither one of them has a hope in hells of matching wits with you.

  275. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Heh. Neither one of them has a hope in hells of matching wits with you.

    True. But the non stop tediousness will tear you up.

  276. Brownian says

    Heh. Neither one of them has a hope in hells of matching wits with you.

    LOL. That’s for sure. Go get ‘em, Jafafa!

  277. ImaginesABeach says

    I’m on my nook so can’t link but M.A. Melby blogs and sseems more likely to support Greta and Ophelia an PZ than t00t.

  278. Lofty says

    Sniff sniff
    Thunderfart is invited to the party
    Thunderfart lets off some huge stink bombs
    Thunderfart is asked to desist
    Thunderfart refuses
    Thunderfart does some more
    Thunderfart asked to leave
    Thunderfart’s anal efflusions now waft where they are valued
    Everyone’s happy except for the Thunderfart Appreciation Society.
    I love FTB! Long live extractor fans.

  279. gshelley says

    @Hayden
    You are wasting your time. Anybody with any reading comprehension can tell you aren’t defending TF, but to many of the people here, what he said was so bad that any attack is justified, it doesn’t matter if PZ responded to what TF actually wrote, all they care about is that he criticized TF. You say “neither came out well” and they read “Both were as bad as each other”, you say “some of PZ’s responses were to things TF didn’t say” and they read “TF did nothing wrong”
    They aren’t mature adults and trying to reason with them as though they are is not going to achieve anything.

  280. Gregory Greenwood says

    Pteryxx @ 337;

    Hang on… she MADE A VIDEO giving her opinion. On youtube even. Isn’t that teh Free Speech these dudes keep banging on about? Or is Free Speech only a right accorded to real people guys?

    I get the impression that these MRA charmers think that free speech is a bonus perk that comes with a bloke’s standard issue pee-pee.

    Or possibly they think that free speech is not a right accorded to a person as a whole, but rather is a right specifically of the peen itself. It certainly seems like they employ some organ other than their brain when they compose their inane comments…

  281. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    I get the impression that these MRA charmers think that free speech is a bonus perk that comes with a bloke’s standard issue pee-pee.

    The penis is a Talking Stick.

    I!
    Should!
    Shut!
    Up!
    Now!

  282. christophburschka says

    hope you get raped to death by Jaguars in the Yucatan.

    Still unfunny, but points for originality I guess.

  283. says

    gshelley:

    Anybody with any reading comprehension can tell you aren’t defending TF, but to many of the people here, what he said was so bad that any attack is justified, it doesn’t matter if PZ responded to what TF actually wrote, all they care about is that he criticized TF.

    You should run off right now and hit up NG or TLC or Discovery for a show on your amazing psychic abilities! Truly. You’re just like all the rest of the amazing psychics – you don’t get a single thing right.

  284. speedweasel says

    Hi all,

    Can someone please point me to the considered and substantive exchanges on this whole PZ/TFoot/FTB thing? I’m arriving late and I get the feeling that the show is over, the quality commentariat have left and this thread contains the drunk teenagers still hanging around in the parking lot.

    My concern is noted, etc.

  285. alanwilliamson says

    When Thunderf00t was on FTB, he was being a total dick and acting like a child. His writing was rubbish. That is why I thought the owner of the site kicked him off.

  286. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    And bluharmony lies like Rangel on a beach chair, which is also exasperating.

    Eew!

    I am still trying to delete that image from my brain. It does not help that The Daily Show still likes to use it.

  287. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    Can someone please point me to the considered and substantive exchanges on this whole PZ/TFoot/FTB thing?

    Right this way: http://google.com/

  288. says

    @ 337,

    Hang on… she MADE A VIDEO giving her opinion.

    No, she made a video about moving house and unpacking boxes. It lasted 5 minutes, was rather tedious to watch, and in it she made a 20-second offhand remark : “Guys, don’t do that”.

  289. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    methferret,

    I’m arriving late and I get the feeling that the show is over,

    It is.

    the quality commentariat have left

    Have you read this thread? It’s hilarious. Funniest in the last month at least.

    and this thread contains the drunk teenagers still hanging around in the parking lot.

    What, you don’t like for us to have fun?

  290. says

    It is a shame. I am fairly new to atheism and I was ushered here largely by the two of you. I probably would have been content to be one of those “dictionary atheists” you despise so much, but for seeing the discrimination and hatred directed at atheists. I was heartened to see in increase in skepticism and a decrease in religiosity. I was excited to see a movement coalesce that might hasten the advance of a more secular society. Now I see the movement torn asunder over the the relative importance of sexual harassment policies at conferences. It is a shame.

    I have no desire to take sides on any of these issues. I think it is a bit petulant to continue to take shots at Tf00t in this forum when you have banned him from being able to reply, but what is really disheartening is to see you and your followers go after Tf00t’s fans. I count myself among them. I can no more divorce myself from the vitriol directed at fans of Thunderf00t than I can the vitriol directed at atheists. I hope this will pass soon.

  291. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    I think it is a bit petulant to continue to take shots at Tf00t in this forum when you have banned him from being able to reply

    Well see you’re wrong about that.

    He has not been banned.

    He could comment here if he wanted to.

  292. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    Now I see the movement torn asunder over the the relative importance of sexual harassment policies at conferences. It is a shame.

    Because to you, atheism per se is more important than women’s safe participation in atheist social spheres.

  293. says

    keithroragen:

    Now I see the movement torn asunder over the the relative importance of sexual harassment policies at conferences. It is a shame.

    Relative importance? What is that, Keith? How relevant sexism and sexual harassment is to those with penises?

    I have no desire to take sides on any of these issues.

    Okay, thanks for letting us know you don’t give a shit about 51% of the population. That was terribly…irrelevant.

  294. says

    I have no desire to take sides on any of these issues. I think it is a bit petulant to continue to take shots at Tf00t in this forum when you have banned him from being able to reply, but what is really disheartening is to see you and your followers go after Tf00t’s fans. I count myself among them. I can no more divorce myself from the vitriol directed at fans of Thunderf00t than I can the vitriol directed at atheists. I hope this will pass soon.

    You’re a fucking idiot.

  295. Josh, Official Yucatan Jaguar says

    Jeezis christ on a cracker but it’s fucking sticky and disgusting and hot and horrible. Only good thing about the weather is it’ll probly keep the draguars inactive tonight so my heels will be safe.

  296. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    ThunderingFool has been commenting about this. Just hot here.

    But look at it this way, he can use the responses on YouTube to prove that he is still correct.

  297. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    pharyngula DOT wikia DOT com/wiki/Deep_Rifts

  298. says

    Seriously, you expect me to feel bad about being mean to TFoot’s fans when

    a) His fans were a huge problem and proved to be assholes
    b) You’ve given me reason to dislike you personally

    Hell, all you’ve shown me is that I was 100% right in judging all of Tfoot’s mouthbreather fan base as utter oblivious idiots

  299. dianne says

    Thanks for your time!

    Does anyone find it odd to sign off a letter that includes insults, slander, and rape threats with “thanks”?

  300. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    I have no desire to take sides on any of these issues.

    Thanks. I’m always so glad to hear about assholes’ apathy to behavior that disproportionately affects my life because it’s not their problem.

    what is really disheartening is to see you and your followers go after Tf00t’s fans.

    HAHAHAHAHA.
    I hereby nominate you for most inane and oblivious concern troll of the thread.

  301. says

    Seriously, it was just last night that I was thinking “you know people may have a point, why am I so hair triggered and impulsively snappy at people. Occasionally that leads me into putting my foot in my mouth. Why don’t I slow down and start treating people nicer” then someone like keith shows up and I smack myself in the head saying “OH RIGHT NOW I REMEMBER!”

  302. Josh, Official Yucatan Jaguar says

    Now I see the movement torn asunder over the the relative importance of sexual harassment policies at conferences. It is a shame.

    And there was rending of garments and gnashing of teeth.

  303. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    The misinformation and misunderstanding of the ThunderFoot incident is working its way to Great Desecration levels.

    Seriously people, read up before you open your mouth er.. keyboard and look like a giant fool.

  304. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    I can no more divorce myself from the vitriol directed at fans of Thunderf00t than I can the vitriol directed at atheists.

    Well, a lot of Thunderf00t’s fans are really terrible people, racist sexist stupid pieces of shit.

    If you’re one of Thunderf00t’s few not-racist not-sexist not-stupid fans then surely you’ve noticed this already.

    So if the criticism happens to not apply to you, don’t get all offended. We’re just talking about the vast majority of Thunderf00t’s fans who are sexist racist warmongers.

    But you, hey, I’m sure you’re cool. You’re not like the rest of ‘em. Right?

    Right?

  305. jenniferphillips says

    I can no more divorce myself from the vitriol directed at fans of Thunderf00t than I can the vitriol directed at atheists.

    But apparently the vitriol directed at women, and the token males who consider them equal members of society, is a-ok with you. Thanks for laying out your priorities so plainly, dude.

    And Jeebus, for the eleventybillionth time, TF is not fucking banned. He can comment here if he wants to. He can make 100 rebuttal videos per hour if he wants to. He can start his own fucking blog if he wants to. The total eradication of his 1st amendment rights have been greatly exaggerated.

  306. says

    I have no desire to take sides on any of these issues.

    Well you can fuck right off then. Intelligent, compassionate people understand that it’s necessary to take sides when you’re talking about justice. One important aspect of justice and equality for women is the ability for women to participate fully in public life, such as conferences.

    So fuck you. You’re one more Thunderfoot fan who sucks. Just like Thunderfoot.

    DEEEEEEEP RIIIIIFTS!

  307. sheeptick says

    “Thunderf00t’s angry rabble”

    Surely you’re not implying that Thunderf00t condones or is somehow responsible for this trollish post are you? He certainly doesn’t deserve ownership of every angry fool on the internet rising to his defense. This is the INTERNET after all. Examples of unrestrained viciousness leaping from the id of the anonymous, or at the very least, emotionally removed individuals typing from the safety and sanctuary of their home computers is not an unknown phenomena. Alas.

    I really haven’t been following this fur ball very closely and obliquely experiencing it unfold this way makes my heart sink. I happen to love and respect all of the actors (I suppose I’ll call you) that I happen to know about. Thunderf00t, Rebecca Watson, Ophelia Benson, Blaghag, the Skepchicks, DJ Grothe, et. al. and especially you PZ. Everyone of you have been lights in my life that have helped me understand and develop a more articulate way of expressing my thoughts on atheism and skepticism as a worldview. Such shrewdness, competence, moxie and humor! Now look at you all. In-group / Out-group primate baloney.

    I don’t know exactly what thunderf00t has said that caused you to shun him from this little (but potent) group of yours but it strikes me that you invited him into Free Thought Blogs for the admirable qualities he possesses in the first place. He’s been such a tremendous contributor to this cause of ours, why couldn’t this have been settled by discourse, by entreaty, and finally by tolerant consensus? And what’s so wrong with having an outlier in the mix? Maybe he’d come around to your perspective if you gave him a chance. Perhaps this internecine beef could have provided a way for all of us to hone our arguments.

    Has his entire character been impugned by a week or two of impassioned disagreement? I should like to weigh an individual’s worth on the whole of one’s work and contributions and not on a single litmus test. Yes?

    Get on the phone all of you. Talk. Work it out and then come back to exemplify our ideals. All of you are better than this.

  308. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    dianne,

    Does anyone find it odd to sign off a letter that includes insults, slander, and rape threats with “thanks”?

    It’s probably a deliberate joke.

    When I send scathing letters to advertisers I’m always gushingly polite at the very end.

  309. says

    I can no more divorce myself from the vitriol directed at fans of Thunderf00t than I can the vitriol directed at atheists.

    However, sustained vitriol aimed at women is just dandy, amirite?

    I’m about to do some susurring up in here.

  310. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    I really haven’t been following this fur ball very closely and obliquely experiencing it unfold this way makes my heart sink.

    Oh my fuck! Why do you do this? Why do you come into this thread and post your fucking two screens of whining schlock when you SELF-ADMITTEDLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE FUCKING SITUATION? Fuck off!

  311. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    sheepdip,

    “Thunderf00t’s angry rabble”

    Surely you’re not implying that Thunderf00t condones or is somehow responsible for this trollish post are you?

    Not necessarily. Can you read?

    Thunderf00t’s followers, they are angry rabble, are they not?

    Whether they got to be more that way as a result of following him, now there’s a question for science!

  312. Josh, Official Yucatan Jaguar says

    Get on the phone all of you. Talk. Work it out and then come back to exemplify our ideals.

    You admit you can’t be bothered to read just why this happened, yet you have no problem giving orders to the participants. Go fuck yourself.

  313. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Get on the phone all of you. Talk. Work it out and then come back to exemplify our ideals. All of you are better than this.

    Great. An other both sides are bad now.

    I ask you for your wisdom, sheeptick. How much harassment should a woman put up with before she can complain? How much should a man ignore before he decides to he can side with the harassed women.

    Please, fucking help us work this out.

    You are better than giving us an empty lecture!

  314. says

    I don’t think this would fly where I live though.

    and where’s that, for reference? (I have this weird impression you’re from Germany, but don’t quite recall)

    anyway, the policy and resulting drama I’m referring to is from Britain, from 2009*: http://uk.reuters.com/article/2009/09/16/us-britain-shoes-heels-idUKTRE58F3WL20090916

    *there’s some new drama about EU regulations and hairdressers, but fuck if I know what that’s about, since the articles on the first page of google are dailymail & friends

    I think it is a bit petulant to continue to take shots at Tf00t in this forum when you have banned him from being able to reply

    he isn’t banned from replying, so you’re just making shit up.

    what is really disheartening is to see you and your followers go after Tf00t’s fans.

    receiving e-mails != “going after”

    can no more divorce myself from the vitriol directed at fans of Thunderf00t

    TF fans are a systemically disprivileged social group? (or differently: false equivalence)

  315. jenniferphillips says

    What is up with all the hand-wringing, disillusioned commenters turning up here? I mean, Hand-wringers, does this usually work for you? I’m honestly curious as to what you hope to accomplish by such entreaties.

  316. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    I don’t know exactly what thunderf00t has said that caused you to shun him from this little (but potent) group of yours but it strikes me that you invited him into Free Thought Blogs for the admirable qualities he possesses in the first place.

    Then perhaps you should go read about it before you come in talking about shit you obviously know exactly nothing about.

    Don’t you think?

  317. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    sigh

    I don’t know exactly what thunderf00t has said that caused you to shun him from this little (but potent) group of yours but it strikes me that you invited him into Free Thought Blogs for the admirable qualities he possesses in the first place.

    Then perhaps you should go read about it before you come in talking about shit you obviously know exactly nothing about.

    Don’t you think?

  318. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    They aren’t mature adults and trying to reason with them as though they are is not going to achieve anything.

    *checks AARP card*
    If you lie about mature adults not being here, what else will you lie about? Everything in your post is my conclusion, based on you being caught out in a blatant lie. Do try not be funny when your own hypocrisy is so easily exposed. It backfires, making you look immature and ridiculous…

  319. says

    sheeptick:

    All of you are better than this.

    Here’s a suggestion, Cupcake: you run right off with this message of luv to Tfoot and his fans at yootube, then deliver it to the Slyme Pit. Let us know what happens, ‘kay?

  320. John Morales says

    sheeptick:

    Has his [thunderpod's] entire character been impugned by a week or two of impassioned disagreement?

    Revealed, not impugned.

    Get on the phone all of you. Talk. Work it out and then come back to exemplify our ideals.

    They did, thus the booting out of the incompetent one.

    (Sheesh!)

  321. says

    I don’t know exactly what thunderf00t has said that caused you to shun him from this little (but potent) group of yours but

    Stop right there. Have enough self-respect and respect to the commenters here to read up, get a clue, then come back and give us your valued opinion.

  322. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    He’s been such a tremendous contributor to this cause of ours, why couldn’t this have been settled by discourse, by entreaty, and finally by tolerant consensus?

    Because that would require TF to admit he went overboard, needed to back down instead of doubling down, and generally act with more maturity on his part than he was capable of. So, why make a fool of yourself pretending he is more mature than what the evidence shows. All the TF defenders keep ending up with egg of their face with facts. Why don’t you lose the ‘tude, and save your face?

  323. Tethys says

    I don’t know exactly what thunderf00t has said that caused you to shun him

    *headdesk*
    You may as well just come right out and state:

    “I am an ignorant idiot, hear me pontificate!”

  324. sheeptick says

    “another fuckweasel”

    Yeah I’m a fucking monster. No question.

    “somehow magically better”

    So you’re suggesting misunderstandings that happen in print cannot be resolved by real time or better yet, face to face conversation?

  325. speedweasel says

    @Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy #385.

    Thanks for the link. I guess I was just being snarky after getting halfway down the thread and despairing as to the calibre of conversation on Pharyngula.

    I apologise if my comment was casually insulting to the thread participants.

  326. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    You are not helping your case, sheeptick. People have addressed your self admitted ignorant concerns. And yet you will not answer in kind.

  327. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    keithroragen,

    Now I see the movement torn asunder

    This is always an amusement to me. What exactly is it supposed to mean?

    It is so obviously a reaction like “Mommy and Daddy are fighting!” Do these people think that because two of their Atheist Parents are disagreeing, they are going to get a divorce and that is going to be The End of Atheism?

    So PZ and Thunderfoot have an argument. What results do you think are going to come of it?

    Me, I have this totally unsubstantiated gut feeling that it’s a good thing, because it gets more people thinking about sexism, but honestly I really can’t quantify that. Null hypothesis is that it makes no difference and I can’t think of anything that suggests otherwise. Regarding the general discussions about sexual harassment at conferences, American Atheists did come out with a good conference policy, so that’s a positive result in general near this issue, but it wasn’t a result of the dispute with Thunderfoot.

    How does this actually “hurt atheism”? What does it mean when you say “the movement is torn asunder”? It’s so obviously just your gut feeling of discomfort — nothing necessarily follows from that. Fucking make a substantive argument otherwise, if you think I’m wrong.

  328. truebutnotuseful says

    sheeptick wrote @ #398:

    I really haven’t been following this fur ball very closely

    I don’t know exactly what thunderf00t has said

    I for one am glad you’re here to tell us all how you feel about a situation you admit to knowing nothing about, and fully intend to give your opinion every gram of weight it deserves.

  329. says

    Yeah I’m a fucking monster. No question.

    you’re confused.

    So you’re suggesting misunderstandings that happen in print cannot be resolved by real time or better yet, face to face conversation?

    they cannot be resolved better than in writing, no.

    what the fuck is it with privileging a form of conversation in which you can be emotionally manipulated, talked over, yelled at, interrupted, and have to try to think on the fly without the luxury of having the time to compose your argument?

  330. says

    So you’re suggesting misunderstandings that happen in print cannot be resolved by real time or better yet, face to face conversation?

    No, your interlocutor suggested that face-to-face or telephone interactions don’t automatically (“magically”) resolve disputes better than written interaction does.

    Do you always argue this dishonestly?

  331. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    So you’re suggesting misunderstandings that happen in print cannot be resolved by real time or better yet, face to face conversation?

    That requires the immature acting party, in this case TF, to back down. Until you show he was capable and willing to do so, you don’t have a case. TF was playing hardball, and it backfired.

  332. Lyn M: hysterical feminazi fembot watsonista dramatic name caller says

    @ Audley Darkheart #151

    Seriously, PZ. I think you owe me, Cipher, and What a Maroon our own blogs. In the interest of free expression and whatnot.

    I should get two. My nym is considerably longer.

  333. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    sheeptick,

    Some advice.

    When you come into a highly charged forum and basically scream

    I have no clue what you are all discussing but I heard some bad things and I think you are all very mean

    It doesn’t say much good about you.

    SO my advice is to at least have a clue what you are talking about instead of coming in waving your arms and yelling

    LOOK AT MY IGNORANCE AND INCREDULITY! PAY ATTENTION TO THEM!

  334. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    It is so obviously a reaction like “Mommy and Daddy are fighting!” Do these people think that because two of their Atheist Parents are disagreeing, they are going to get a divorce and that is going to be The End of Atheism?

    I loled, but …probably.

  335. Tinjoe says

    you invited him into Free Thought Blogs for the admirable qualities he possesses in the first place

    And then he proceeded to step into something he doesn’t understand, was dismissive of people’s first hand experience, knowledge, and criticisms. He argued in bad faith, and then he turned to his YouTube community to back him up with a laughably ridiculous poll.

    Whatever goodwill got him the gig, evaporated when he double (or triple) downed on his initial post. It really doesn’t matter that he wrote poorly, he didn’t seem to be honestly engaging with anyone that was telling him “You’re wrong and here is why”

    So until you go back and read a dozen blog posts, and a couple hundred comments from people who already have, kindly keep your ignorance to yourself please.

  336. says

    ixchel,

    I think it will result in two factions squabbling with each other instead of working together towards a common goal.

    Please tell me I am wrong.

  337. Antiochus Epiphanes says

    [ot]

    You should run off right now and hit up NG or TLC or Discovery for a show on your amazing psychic abilities!

    Speaking of NG, the slime pit has left the Borg for sectors unchartered.*

    As you were.

    *you probably all knew that.

  338. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    Get on the phone all of you. Talk.

    What sheepdip means to say is “I don’t like watching my Atheist Parents fight in public; it makes me feel like the Christian Kids At School have Better Families and they look down on me.”

    (These are understandable feelings when little kids feel them as regards an actual family. It’s not okay to carry over this childhood response to every other public dispute between “big people” that happens later in life. Some fights really should be public, because we are trying to publicly change the culture.)

  339. says

    you invited him into Free Thought Blogs for the admirable qualities he possesses in the first place

    Which I might point out was a stupid idea

    a) It ignored some troubling negatives
    b) the talents he had, were not in fucking prose and PZ never got a preview writing sample. This was the equivalent of inviting a mime to a barber shop quartet

  340. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    So, keithroragen, answer this simple question. How much harassment should women put up with for the sake of atheist unity?

  341. says

    I think it will result in two factions squabbling with each other instead of working together towards a common goal.

    what is this common goal in this case, and how is it more important than the minimization of sexual harassment of women, that it’s more important to sweep all disagreements about the latter under the carpet?

  342. says

    I think it will result in two factions squabbling with each other instead of working together towards a common goal.

    Please tell me I am wrong.

    You are wrong.

    The Thunderfoot faction was never interested in working towards any common goals.

    As demonstrated by Mr. F00t (hee hee) himself, and his fans too, their only goal is feeling better and smarter than anyone else because that is part of their “skeptic/atheist” identity.

    Any more questions?

  343. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    keithroragen,

    I think it will result in two factions squabbling with each other instead of working together towards a common goal.

    There are white supremacist atheists over at Stormfront.

    Do you think it would be a good idea for us to “work together” with them toward “a common goal”?

    (Hint: if you’re thinking mmmmmmmaybe, then you’re wrong, because we don’t really have a common goal with them; we want to make atheism a movement where people of color can feel welcome.)

  344. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    I think it will result in two factions squabbling with each other instead of working together towards a common goal.

    Yeah, it would be much better if one group of atheists (women) would just put up with being made to feel unwelcome and treated like shit and not make such a fuss about it. Because common goals! And you don’t want to take sides!
    Here’s a hint: Just because you’re a spineless little shit, that doesn’t mean you get to expect us to be.

  345. says

    Hiya Josh, Yucatan Jaguar of DOOOOOMMMM. RE #37… It might be my fault for bandying the term “banned” around all too loosely. I never meant it to go this far. :D

    But seriously, fellow Banned Atheists… if you’re reading this, check it out: You got banned, but it’s just the internets. You have not been silenced. I don’t feel silenced, and hell, it’s my fucking username.

    I got banned from DemocraticUnderground.com for engaging in an ad hominem attack on a bigoted troll. My crime? I called him a “bigot” and a “troll” and I got PPR’d from my favorite forum. Did I then mount a troll campaign to discredit DU?

    Fuck no. I started my own blog. I have not been silenced, and neither has TF. I didn’t LIKE getting banned, but the fact is I DID knowingly violate DU’s TOS, which states that ad hominem attacks would get me banned.

    I truly think FtB would benefit from this type of policy in the comments thread. It gets nastier in here than it ever does in the Religion forum on DU, and it’s mostly all atheists. WTF?!?

    I might wear “Banned” on my sleeve, but I wouldn’t think twice about banning, for instance, #397 who writes, “Well you can fuck right off then.” See that’s an ad hominem attack that isn’t conducive to intellectual dialogue. It would get one PPR’d from DU in a hot second. Pretty scary when Catholics and atheists can debate more intelligently and civilly on DU than atheists and atheists at FtB.

    If you have to get personal, you just lost the argument. If this was my site, you would also get banned. If two people were both getting personal, they would BOTH get banned.

    That’s how I unpack it, Josh. What say ye?

    Some of us atheists can wear “banned” as a badge of honor, because we took our lumps… but kept our perspective.

    Rock on.

  346. says

    I think it will result in two factions squabbling with each other instead of working together towards a common goal.

    Oh, do tell. What is this common goal? Please state it, briefly. You’ve already stated there is only one goal, so keep that in mind.

  347. sheeptick says

    “Because that would require TF to admit he went overboard, needed to back down instead of doubling down, and generally act with more maturity on his part than he was capable of. So, why make a fool of yourself pretending he is more mature than what the evidence shows. All the TF defenders keep ending up with egg of their face with facts. Why don’t you lose the ‘tude, and save your face?”

    Perhaps he would admit given the time. I do know the he’s been a pretty great guy for quite a long time and I find it hard to believe that his view that this is a small problem rather than a large one somehow erases all of that. Why was he invited in the first place?

    I understand his plea for quietism towards this problem of sexism, threatening and obnoxious behavior can be infuriating but I don’t think he’s unsympathetic to the problem root and branch because of that. I believe he said so didn’t he? Call the cops on the offenders if warranted. Remove the offending oafs from the conference outright. He’s not advocating sexist behavior is he?

    I don’t think it marks him as an awful person because he doesn’t think as you. People can be good and wrong at the same time. For every thunderf00t there appears to be 10 or 15 against amongst the Free thought bloggers. Talk about small problems. Allow the honest dissent, as long as it’s honestly given.

  348. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    If you have to get personal, you just lost the argument.

    No. If you’re so intellectually weak that you can’t understand an argument because someone got personal making it, you’re not worth arguing with.

  349. says

    @bannedatheist

    One might argue that you just insulted them and didn’t do an Ad hom arguement and thus didn’t voilate their terms. But they’re assholes

    I might wear “Banned” on my sleeve, but I wouldn’t think twice about banning, for instance, #397 who writes, “Well you can fuck right off then.” See that’s an ad hominem attack that isn’t conducive to intellectual dialogue. It would get one PPR’d from DU in a hot second. Pretty scary when Catholics and atheists can debate more intelligently and civilly on DU than atheists and atheists at FtB.

    Oh never mind. You don’t understand it either and are an idiot.

    Seriously fuck this civility idea in the goddamn eye socket with a barbed wire condom or chainsaw strap on.

  350. says

    Bannedatheist:

    You got banned, but it’s just the internets.

    Are you simply attempting to demonstrate stupidity in action? Thunderfoot was not banned – he can comment anywhere he likes at FTB.

  351. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    Sheeptick, I’m tired of your ignorant bullshit. If you don’t understand the fucking situation, shut the fuck up about it. Stop telling people who HAVE followed it closely because they’ve been fucking involved in it how you think things are based on your total fucking lack of research. It’s worthless and insulting.

  352. says

    Ing:

    So is the Slymepit password protected?

    Doesn’t seem to be, I didn’t go poking around.

    SC, see the link @444. NG came down on the slimepit, so they’ve moved out of the Sciborg collective.

  353. says

    Just reread my #448 and last few sentences included some “you”s. Please note these are rhetorical “you”s — as in “one could say” == “you could say” etc. Not pointed at any one individual.

    Just sayin’ — FtB would get better if they would put a posting policy in place that states that those engaging in personal attacks will get the ban.

  354. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    I do know the he’s been a pretty great guy for quite a long time and I find it hard to believe that his view that this is a small problem rather than a large one somehow erases all of that.

    Given your apologetics for him, I don’t believe a word of your claims. That’s what you get when you don’t do your homework, and find out the FACTS before making as ass of yourself with ignorance.

    but I don’t think he’s unsympathetic to the problem root and branch because of that.

    His behavior and words speak otherwise. Quit making a fool of yourself defending the indefensible. It only makes you look bad.

    Call the cops on the offenders if warranted.

    Why should cops be called when it is against the terms of attending? Why should they be called except to eject someone who won’t leave when asked? You aren’t making sense…

    I don’t think it marks him as an awful person because he doesn’t think as you. People can be good and wrong at the same time.

    Most of us here don’t think he is necessarily a bad person except he is not sympathetic toward women being harassed and how to stop it. Quit making a fool of yourself defending him. He can do that himself.

  355. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    Just sayin’ — FtB would get better if they would put a posting policy in place that states that those engaging in personal attacks will get the ban.

    Your bare, bullshit assertion is noted.

  356. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    bannedatheist,

    I wouldn’t think twice about banning, for instance, #397 who writes, “Well you can fuck right off then.” See that’s an ad hominem attack that isn’t conducive to intellectual dialogue.

    Well, what was #397 in reply to. Let’s check.

    I have no desire to take sides on any of these issues.

    Well you can fuck right off then. Intelligent, compassionate people understand that it’s necessary to take sides when you’re talking about justice. One important aspect of justice and equality for women is the ability for women to participate fully in public life, such as conferences.

    So fuck you. You’re one more Thunderfoot fan who sucks. Just like Thunderfoot.

    DEEEEEEEP RIIIIIFTS!

    Nope, I disagree. That’s healthy intellectual dialogue. Some people should fuck right off, and Sam has potentially identified one.

    (I hold out a very tiny little hope that keithroragen is going to learn something here about why atheism plus anti-sexism needs to fight against atheism plus sexism, and why the former is better than the other. But until keithroragen learns this, Sam has made a valid call.)

  357. sheeptick says

    “cupcake”

    “Here’s a suggestion, Cupcake: you run right off with this message of luv to Tfoot and his fans at yootube, then deliver it to the Slyme Pit. Let us know what happens, ‘kay?”

    It’s a terrible affliction my naivete. Do you always diminish people in these interactions?

  358. says

    See the #454, “Are you simply attempting to demonstrate stupidity in action?” would get one banned from DU in under five minutes…

    I’m saying — GOOD!! Ban them! Ban TF!! Hell, I’d ban you, Caine!

    You clearly misunderstood me, and then engaged in ad homimem attacks on me personally. That’s exactly what I’m talking about. A sane policy that everyone knows about SHOULD include requiring civil discourse, meaning one can’t just start hurling insults around willy-nilly. I didn’t engage in any such personal attacks.

    I also have thick skin. Calling me names makes me happy because it makes the name-caller look like the tool they are.

  359. says

    @451. This isn’t the first Internet fight that THunderf00t’s been in. Can you name any examples where he backed down and admitted any degree of fault?

  360. says

    Just sayin’ — FtB would get better if they would put a posting policy in place that states that those engaging in personal attacks will get the ban.

    Oh yes that’s the best thing for dialogue! Draconian moderation that punishes heated debate.

    Cause everyone loves thanksgiving so much that they want to make every single experience on the net a recreation of grinding your teeth and pretending you don’t hate the absolute fuckstick sitting across from you talking about how Obama should just show his birth certificate

  361. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    It’s a terrible affliction my naivete. Do you always diminish people in these interactions?

    Do you always presume to lecture people on things they understand better than you do?
    ‘Cause let me tell you, that would be some funny shit to watch.

  362. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    . A sane policy that everyone knows about SHOULD include requiring civil discourse, meaning one can’t just start hurling insults around willy-nilly. I didn’t engage in any such personal attacks.

    How about you stop asserting stupid shit for five seconds and read the actual standards and practices here, and thereafter reflect on the fact that different people value different things?

  363. John Morales says

    bannedatheist:

    Just sayin’ — FtB would get better if they would put a posting policy in place that states that those engaging in personal attacks will get the ban.

    Yeah, better for the trolls.

    (bah)

    sheeptick:

    Perhaps he would admit given the time.

    Exceedingly doubtful.

    (The trajectory of his posting here strongly indicates otherwise)

  364. Antiochus Epiphanes says

    [

    SC, see the link @444. NG came down on the slimepit, so they’ve moved out of the Sciborg collective.

    Sure, but I didn't chart it. Did Ngeo really slam the door? It was kind of hard to tell wtf was going on. Caine, if you did the homework on this, the kind thing to do is not make me, youl know...poke around in tthere. Cuz I'm not going to. But I wanna know.
    ]

  365. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    If you have to get personal, you just lost the argument.

    Huh. I guess Christopher Hitchens never won a single argument.

  366. says

    SC, see the link @444. NG came down on the slimepit, so they’ve moved out of the Sciborg collective.

    I’d rather not go to their link, but that’s great news (not totally unexpected). Seems like just a few short weeks ago Abbie was saying how cool with it all NatGeo was.

  367. What a Maroon, el papa ateo says

    I think it will result in two factions squabbling with each other instead of working together towards a common goal.

    Here are some of my goals:
    I want AGW to be stopped and reversed.
    I want my kids to have a fruitful and happy life.
    I want everyone’s bodily autonomy to be respected.
    I want everyone to be equal, regardless of superficial attributes like skin color or religious belief or gender.
    I want war to end.
    I want the Red Sox to win the World Series.
    I want everyone to have sufficient food, drink, shelter, and health care to live a happy and productive life.
    I want the world to be safe for everyone to wander through without fear of being attacked.
    I want no to mean no.
    I want to live half the year in Lisbon and half in Boston.
    I want people to stop believing superstitious nonsense.

    I doubt there are many people in the world who share all my goals. But if I had to sacrifice the last goal to achieve the others, I’d do it without hesitation.

  368. says

    I might wear “Banned” on my sleeve,

    But you do.

    but I wouldn’t think twice about banning, for instance, #397 who writes, “Well you can fuck right off then.” See that’s an ad hominem attack that isn’t conducive to intellectual dialogue.

    *sigh* That wasn’t an ad hominem.

    It would get one PPR’d from DU in a hot second.

    Which is why I don’t post on DU. If I were commenting on a site with policies like DU, I would have said something along the lines of,

    “It appears you don’t share our goals and are willing to subordinate equality for women to advancement of atheism. That is a compromise I am not willing to make. It makes me wonder why you bother posting here, when you could be conversing with others, who, like you, don’t share our interest in feminism.”

    Saying you can fuck right off then is far more satisfying, and conveys the message better.

    Pretty scary when Catholics and atheists can debate more intelligently and civilly on DU than atheists and atheists at FtB.

    Wait, you WERE just talking about politeness, and now suddenly you bring intelligence into it. They’re not related. You haven’t established any relationship. Linking them, out of the blue like you just did, makes your comment look stupid.

    If you have to get personal, you just lost the argument.

    Only stupid people truly believe this.

    If this was my site, you would also get banned.

    If this was your site, it would suck and nobody would be commenting on it.

    If two people were both getting personal, they would BOTH get banned.

    And you would be left only with androids and Vulcans commenting.

    Just sayin’ — FtB would get better if they would put a posting policy in place that states that those engaging in personal attacks will get the ban.

    No it wouldn’t.

    Bald assertion, meet bald assertion.

  369. says

    Whoops. Didn’t scroll my preview screen down. Naughty Sam.

    If you have to get personal, you just lost the argument.

    Only stupid people truly believe this.

    If this was my site, you would also get banned.

    If this was your site, it would suck and nobody would be commenting on it.

    If two people were both getting personal, they would BOTH get banned.

    And you would be left only with androids and Vulcans commenting.

    Just sayin’ — FtB would get better if they would put a posting policy in place that states that those engaging in personal attacks will get the ban.

    No it wouldn’t.

    Bald assertion, meet bald assertion.

  370. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    Ahem.

    What is the common goal?

  371. says

    Heh. I see that my point is well taken.

    Excellent. Throw yourselves onto the pikes of my rhetoric. Hurl insults when you have no arguments. Say I’m not worth arguing with, because you have no argument to make.

    But know this: it doesn’t work. You didn’t win the debate, and in the end, it is only the attacker who looks stupid.

    DU learned this over the course of multiple iterations, and despite having been banned from the site, I accept it. I DID break the rule against personal attacks by calling a bigot a “bigot”.

    If you read what I wrote, I said I think it was RIGHT to ban TF. I didn’t realize he hadn’t actually been banned, but I would have banned him.

    If FtB WANTS to have a pit of insults, never mind. I’m not going to stay here and trade one-liners. See, I like fully formed sentences with clauses, and even better, well-formed paragraphs built like a sandwich. Call me crazy. Just don’t call me crazy on DU. (It’ll getcha banned.)

  372. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    It’s a terrible affliction my naivete. Do you always diminish people in these interactions?

    When they behave as immaturely as you have, yes. Your concern is noted. Now, its time to shut the fuck up, as you have nothing cogent to say. And it shows.

    A sane policy that everyone knows about SHOULD include requiring civil discourse,

    Fuckwit, look at the masthead. Do you see your name there? No, it says PZ Myers. And here’s what PZ Myers has to say about this blog, trumping your mere OPINION seven ways from Sunday, making it irrelevant:

    This is a rude blog. We like to argue — heck, we like a loud angry brawl. Don’t waste time whining at anyone that they’re not nice, because this gang will take pride in that and rhetorically hand you a rotting porcupine and tell you to stuff it up your nether orifice. If you intrude here and violate any of the previous three mores, people won’t like you, and they won’t hold back—they’ll tell you so, probably in colorful terms.

    We do have a general guideline for handling new people. If you’re a first time commenter, you get three strikes: you can make three comments, and the regulars are supposed to restrain themselves and try to get you to engage rationally before they are allowed to release the rabid hounds. They are hoping you will oblige them and give them an excuse to let slip the leash, so be warned.

    Take you OPINION and shove it up your ass with a decaying porcupine–sideways. That is what you deserve for thinking you run this blog…

  373. says

    Delicious. If these sane posting policies that prohibit ad hominem attacks are so “stupid” (wow, that’s a ZINGER) then how come their site has about 10,000X as many viewers and posters?

    Ah, evidence. MMmmmm.

  374. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    because you have no argument to make.

    Those who tone troll have no arguments, except tone trolling. And PZ’s word trumps their tone trolling each and every time. Funny how they never pick up on the fact they have lost the argument, and are tacitly conceding defeat on the argument prior to their tone trolling.

  375. sheeptick says

    “sheeptick:

    Has his [thunderpod's] entire character been impugned by a week or two of impassioned disagreement?

    Revealed, not impugned.”

    I’d say impugned. Taken on the whole he’s a great guy. Keep in mind he’s not advocating rotten behavior towards women but rather that it’s not a big problem.

    “Get on the phone all of you. Talk. Work it out and then come back to exemplify our ideals.

    They did, thus the booting out of the incompetent one. (Sheesh!)”

    I read this blog a lot and didn’t see this. I read some email interaction. I’ll take a link and shut up if true. He’s hardly incompetent. I raise your “Sheesh!” with a Please.

  376. John Morales says

    [meta + OT]

    bannedatheist:

    I also have thick skin. Calling me names makes me happy because it makes the name-caller look like the tool they are.

    It’s not your tegument’s thickness that you demonstrate, and thickies such as you clearly are thus made happy because you don’t see the substance of such comments for the names you get called.

    (Calling people tools isn’t name calling? ;) )

  377. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    It’s the Sheeptick show! All baseless bullshitting, all the time!

  378. truebutnotuseful says

    bannedatheist wrote @ #448:

    I truly think FtB would benefit from this type of policy in the comments thread.

    Um, no. I’ll gladly take substance over style, please. If you can’t handle grownups saying ‘fuck’ to each other, find another blog.

    It gets nastier in here than it ever does in the Religion forum on DU, and it’s mostly all atheists. WTF?!?

    Um, maybe because people who argue in good faith are more concerned with the validity of ideas than the tone in which those ideas are expressed?

    I wouldn’t think twice about banning, for instance, #397 who writes, “Well you can fuck right off then.”

    It’s telling how you conveniently ignored the rest of the paragraph immediately following the sentence you lifted. You know, the one where SamStrange made their argument. Why do you care more about whether someone says ‘fuck you’ than whether they make a sound argument?

    If you have to get personal, you just lost the argument.

    Did you really just write that? Consider the following:

    Person A: “The sky is orange.”
    Person B: “Oh fuck off, the sky is blue.”

    By your logic, Person A wins despite be demonstrably wrong. That is incredibly fucking* stupid.

    * Congratulations! You win, because I used the ‘f-word.’

  379. says

    Excellent. Throw yourselves onto the pikes of my rhetoric. Hurl insults when you have no arguments. Say I’m not worth arguing with, because you have no argument to make.

    But know this: it doesn’t work. You didn’t win the debate, and in the end, it is only the attacker who looks stupid.

    No no that’s ok. No need to address any points made just go ahead with insults.

    Seriously, how fucking hypocritical and/or stupid are you?

  380. Tinjoe says

    @BannedAtheist

    I keep feeling like you don’t understand ad hominem.

    If someone says something bigoted, you are free to explain why it is bigoted, from experience that effort is wasted and calling them a bigot is the shortcut. Similarly if someone is being a troll.

    Telling someone to “fuck off” is perfectly fine if they are going to fence sit on a topic that clearly has two sides.Thunderf00t’s article made statements regarding the importance of conference and the level/existence of harassment, not surprisingly people disagreed with much of his content.

    Do you feel that Thunderf00t sufficiently made his case and adequately addressed the criticisms? If you’ve been following then you have an opinion on this, if not then your ignorance on the subject doesn’t further the discussion and you’re encouraged to stop contributing.

  381. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Keep in mind he’s not advocating rotten behavior towards women but rather that it’s not a big problem.

    Since it is not a problem to TF, but it is a problem to us, we win by default. Your OPINION shows you don’t understand the problem. Deal with TF, not us. Why can’t you do that, go to the source of the problem, which is TF and his ego?

    He’s hardly incompetent.

    I couldn’t see otherwise from his actions while here. Quit apologizing for him. He can do that himself. Why isn’t he????

  382. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Keep in mind he’s not advocating rotten behavior towards women but rather that it’s not a big problem.

    Shit, sheepcake, I fucking love it when a great guy engages in not a big deal harassment of me.

    Fuck ThunderingFool.

    And fuck you for not understanding why this is a problem.

  383. says

    #478 — Excellent. There it is. There’s the TOS I was looking for.

    Interestingly, it’s the same Terms of Service that 4chan/b/ has, minus Desu and, y’know, humor.

    So, really, everybody just comes here to insult each other? Really? Wow. Is there ANYONE who is willing to have a civil discourse with someone they find they agree with, if they would just stop hurling juvenile names at each other.

    It’s pretty sad. I thought it was a classier and more erudite crowd than that. Guess everyone’s just practicing for sparring with the /b/oys at 4chan, because this isn’t intelligent. It’s not entertaining, either.

    No longer sure what the point is, but it’s been illuminating.

    Ta-ta!

    Oh, yeah, and…

    sudo !!

  384. sheeptick says

    “We are primates, and it is in-group/out-group dynamics, but that doesn’t mean it’s baloney. Try again, this time after informing yourself and putting your thinking cap on.”

    I understand we are primates but I refer to the dynamic as base and it certainly seems like baloney. I’m learning more and more all the time as I read and sift. Sorry I wade in late, perhaps you’ll change my views on intolerance towards thunderf00t by entreaty.

  385. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    Interestingly, it’s the same Terms of Service that 4chan/b/ has, minus Desu and, y’know, humor.

    Yay! More bare fucking assertions!
    What a worthless fucking waste of comments.

  386. sheeptick says

    “This is new! I usually don’t get rape fantasies, but Thunderf00t’s angry rabble have opened up exciting new vistas. The whole point of free-thinking is to express what you have been thinking to others; what would the point of Socrates’ trial have been if he had not made the impressive speeches he made? If the [...]

    You are not helping your case, sheeptick. People have addressed your self admitted ignorant concerns. And yet you will not answer in kind.”

    I didn’t write any of this

  387. says

    AE:

    Sure, but I didn’t chart it. Did Ngeo really slam the door? It was kind of hard to tell wtf was going on. Caine, if you did the homework on this, the kind thing to do is not make me, youl know…poke around in tthere. Cuz I’m not going to. But I wanna know.

    I don’t know all that much, however, yes, it does appear that NG finally paid attention to the email[s] they received in regard to the slimepit and told Abbie they had to tone it down. Naturally, tone it down being anathema, there was an immediate discussion about preserving the slimepit, that bastion of freethought and free speech and also honouring Abbie. (Yep, for realz.)

    (If you click on the comments for any Sciborg/NG thread, you’ll see each comment has a ‘report abuse’ link.)

    A forum has been set up for the SP and the last I heard, there was a heated debate about whether or not to allow editing. It appears to be causing a DEEP RIFT!!1!

    That’s all I know, ’cause I have no wish to go poking about in there.

  388. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Now the sheepcake is throwing together random quotes.

    This is not the brightest troll.

  389. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    it certainly seems like baloney

    An excellent summary of your blather.
    Will you go the fuck away and read?

  390. says

    I don’t know all that much, however, yes, it does appear that NG finally paid attention to the email[s] they received in regard to the slimepit and told Abbie they had to tone it down. Naturally, tone it down being anathema, there was an immediate discussion about preserving the slimepit, that bastion of freethought and free speech and also honouring Abbie. (Yep, for realz.)

    Oh god…that long scree about what a hero Abbie Smith is was fucking hilarious.

  391. sheeptick says

    “I for one am glad you’re here to tell us all how you feel about a situation you admit to knowing nothing about, and fully intend to give your opinion every gram of weight it deserves.”

    THAT is fine. I’m learning as I go. I think it’s okay to express the opinion as long as I disclose my knowledge, yes? But I don’t think the opinion is completely without merit. I’m not really addressing the specifics you understand.

  392. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Is there ANYONE who is willing to have a civil discourse with someone they find they agree with, if they would just stop hurling juvenile names at each other.

    It happens frequently. When one sticks to the topic, doesn’t troll like you are doing, and argues in good faith, meaning they can be wrong. You aren’t there yet. You can’t be wrong, even if you are. This is PZ’s blog, not yours. You should apologize to PZ for presuming you have any say in how he runs his long running blog. That would show honesty and integrity on your part…

    Sorry I wade in late, perhaps you’ll change my views on intolerance towards thunderf00t by entreaty.

    Here’s some advice from an old fart. Shut the fuck up and listen. It’s given to MRA fuckwits, but you need to do the same thing. Your mouth is ahead of your mind.