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Jul 02 2012

TZT

These zombies are getting crafty. They’re still going down.

665 comments

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  1. 501
    Owlmirror

    Or rather, “The Axons of Evil . . . !!“.

  2. 502
    dianne

    Autoimmune diseases respond negligibly to shock and awe.

    Depends…did you get enough shock and awe going to mount a corticosteroid response?

  3. 503
    cm's changeable moniker (quaint, if not charming)

    Re. #482, Bruce Schneier (who’s been saying this for years):

    [...] we fear risks deliberately perpetrated by other people more than we do risks that occur by accident. And while we fear the unknown — the “reminder that al-Qaeda is still out there and still eager to expand its reach and kill thousands if we ever decide to let our guard down a little bit” — more than the familiar, the reality is that automobiles will kill over 3,000 people this month, next month, and every month from now until the foreseeable future, irrespective of whether we let our guard down or not. There simply isn’t any reasonable scenario by which terrorism even approaches that death toll.

    Yes, the risks are different. [...] But as a nation we get to set our priorities, and decide how to spend our money. No one is suggesting we ignore the risks of terrorism — and making people feel safe is a good thing to do — but it makes no sense to focus so much effort and money on it when there are far worse risks to Americans.

  4. 504
    meursalt

    @SC:

    I have a grip. I’m not sure where I’ve continued to strawperson anything you’ve said. If you think I’m doing this, then we’re experiencing some fundamental problem with communication, and I’m not sure what it is. If anything, from my end it looks like you’re strawpersonning me (see below), But I don’t believe that’s your intent.

    I saw the word “coincidentally” in your post, and assumed that you really had found this article by coincidence. I did say “Before you look for other examples…” but I wasn’t trying to imply you went looking for this example, only anticipating possible rebuttals to my post. And yes, I did notice and appreciate that you mentioned both sides of this issue in your link. Maybe I should have been explicit about this.

    Off the top of my head, I don’t recall any specific past statements about regional stereotypes from you. I do recall finding your posts to be generally insightful and to the point, and maybe your combatting regional stereotypes was a reason for this. I’d look up your past posts if I doubted you and felt an urgent need to show you to be wrong, but I don’t, and I’m content to take your word for it.

    Once again, I’m dropping the subject, since I see no value coming from us trading accusations of strawpersons.

  5. 505
    JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness

    Intriguing. The effect of sophisticated 4chan humor on me is exactly the opposite: the more I comprehend it, the less I like it.

    Uh, I don’t know where you are reading them but I’m not reading any 4chan.

  6. 506
    Phalacrocorax, z Třetího Světa

    I don’t know where you are reading them but I’m not reading any 4chan.

    Well, Wikipedia says that rage comics «originated in 2007 on the image board site 4chan», while this place says that the «The earliest archived instance [of dolan comics] in English-language comes from a You Laugh, You Lose thread on 4chan». So I thought I was justified in calling these both examples of 4chan humor. I apologize if somewhere in the Internet these comic styles have been lifted above the original low standards.

  7. 507
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    I have a grip. I’m not sure where I’ve continued to strawperson anything you’ve said. If you think I’m doing this, then we’re experiencing some fundamental problem with communication, and I’m not sure what it is. If anything, from my end it looks like you’re strawpersonning me (see below), But I don’t believe that’s your intent.

    From your most recent comment to me:

    I still hold the opinion (admittedly with very little to back it up) that the culture of the Southeast probably has changed more dramatically than you realize.

    You don’t know how much I realize about how dramatically the culture of the Southeast has changed. My remark was specific and comparative. I talked about history and change only in reference to that, and I was not making any broader claim about the speed or possibility of cultural change in general. You’re reading into my remarks what isn’t there. If that was unclear in context, I’m making it plain now.

    By no means do we have a monopoly on bigotry (and I’m not implying that this is what you were claiming).

    This is what I’m talking about. Not only have I not claimed that or suggested it, I’ve explicitly pointed out that I have not said this. Why would you bring it up, if not to continue to suggest that I was implying it? Stop doing that.

    I saw the word “coincidentally” in your post, and assumed that you really had found this article by coincidence. I did say “Before you look for other examples…” but I wasn’t trying to imply you went looking for this example, only anticipating possible rebuttals to my post.

    Aaaaaargh! Suggesting that I would go looking for “other” (and that certainly suggests that you thought I had gone looking for this) “examples” to rebut your post implies that I’m trying to rebut your post. I’m not trying to rebut your post, because your post isn’t responding to what I’ve said. I’m trying to get you to understand that, and to stop believing we’re having a disagreement we’re not having.

  8. 508
    Inaji

    SG, please, please, keep Ixchel for a while. I likes it something fierce.

  9. 509
    JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness

    Well, Wikipedia says that rage comics «originated in 2007 on the image board site 4chan», while this place says that the «The earliest archived instance [of dolan comics] in English-language comes from a You Laugh, You Lose thread on 4chan». So I thought I was justified in calling these both examples of 4chan humor. I apologize if somewhere in the Internet these comic styles have been lifted above the original low standards.

    Rage comics are a type of comic. What is in the comic and what it is about varies by who makes them. It’s a blank slate. For an example of 4chan humor it would have to be a specific rage comic or a meme that is itself horrible, like the “I can count to potato” meme.

    Honestly, that’s like saying bronies are terrible just because it originated and grew out of 4chan.

    (Bronies are those outside of the demographic for My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic but watch the show.)

  10. 510
    Phalacrocorax, z Třetího Světa

    Ok, JAL. I’m sorry.

  11. 511
    Owlmirror

    bi͒p

    Hm.

    ☹⃠

    ☧⃠

    Heh.

  12. 512
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    Axons of evil…hahahaha.

  13. 513
    Owlmirror

    MY FREE SPEECH IS BEING SUPPRESSED!

    IF PZ MEYERZ DOES NOT GIVE ME MY OWN FREETHOUGHTBLOGS BLOG, AND A REAL LIVE PONY, HE HATES FREE SPEECH AND IS LITERALLY FORCING ME TO DRINK HEMLOCK . . . !! #FTBullies

  14. 514
    strange gods before me ॐ

    Cross-posted.

    [Caine:] SG, please, please, keep Ixchel for a while. I likes it something fierce.

    I’ll try, but I start having technical difficulties* with the blog software here whenever I change my nym away from a couple of old standards. This’s why I had to drop old man jenkins pretty quickly.

    *which are partly my fault and partly que sera sera

    [addendum: I've already had difficulty making about eight comments, and I don't think I can link to Pharyngula Wiki at all when I'm in my jaguar form.]

  15. 515
    Inaji

    Ixchel:

    [addendum: I've already had difficulty making about eight comments, and I don't think I can link to Pharyngula Wiki at all when I'm in my jaguar form.]

    Well, I’ve given up on linking to the wiki without using tinyurl, which gets past the spam filter.

    Otherwise, colour me confused. How does changing your nym cause you difficulty? Or rather, why? I change mine often enough. Well, the descriptor part, the Caine part stays the same.

  16. 516
    Inaji

    Anyway, I hope you can keep it. I mean, I could call you Ix! Or even Ixie! :D

  17. 517
    strange gods before me ॐ

    Caine,

    V hfr choyvp cebkvrf, naq zl vc nqqerff punatrf encvqyl jvgubhg zl qryvorengr vachg. Zbfg bs gurfr cebkvrf ner nhgbzngvpnyyl onaarq orpnhfr gurl ner nyfb hfrq ol fcnzzref. CM unf xvaqyl juvgryvfgrq zr fhpu gung V pna pbzzrag jvgubhg ceboyrzf, ohg guvf trgf fperjl jura V punatr zl alz, naq V qba’g jnag gb obgure uvz gb juvgryvfg zr ntnva rirel gvzr V qrpvqr gb cynl nebhaq. Fb V nz xvaqn fghpx jvgu jung V tbg nyernql.

    (Frxevg zrffntr gb nibvq gevivny tbbtyvat bs zrgubqf gung pbhyq or na naablnapr sbe CM vs ybgf bs crbcyr hfrq gurz orfvqrf zr.)

  18. 518
    John Morales

    [meta + OT]

    ॐ, better still to have addressed Caine in TZT.

  19. 519
    Inaji

    Oh, I see! Thank you for explaining, Ixchel.

  20. 520
    strange gods before me ॐ

    Que sera sera.

  21. 521
    strange gods before me ॐ

    #20 was to John.

    +++++
    No problem, Caine.

  22. 522
    John Morales

    Hey, ॐ, your techniques are improving (in various senses).

    (That’s a compliment)

  23. 523
    Inaji

    I can’t take anymore. Ixchel, if you continue in the ‘email’ thread, best of luck.

  24. 524
    Cipher

    Caine, *hugs if they help* :(

  25. 525
    Cipher

    The self-centered little monster just crossed a line. Telling him anything other than to fuck off would, in my opinion, be a waste of time.

  26. 526
    Inaji

    Thanks, Cipher. I really just could not believe what I was reading about “oh, poor Tfoot, he doesn’t have empathy ’cause he takes a lot of shit on yootube.”

    Jesus.

  27. 527
    mikmik

    Owlmirror

    “#FTBullies”

    I like it

  28. 528
  29. 529
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ chigau/A.R

    Time to start working on our uniforms again. How about this.

    I see there is some really inspired TZT artwork on the interwebz: This would make an inspiring propoganda promotional poster. Or how about this beautiful image drawn from our Glorious History ™.

    The beauty of these images is that they capture the amazing diversity of all the variagated themes and ideas that enrichen and embiggen TZT.

  30. 530
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ humans

    You have not been forgotten. (Linky)

  31. 531
    joey

    owlmirror:

    Just to make sure that I’m on the same page as you:

    — By “free will”, do you still mean “contra-causal free will”; “the ability to have chosen differently”?

    I’m not on-board with the “contra-causal” description of free will. I prefer the “ability to have chosen differently” definition.

    — Would you agree that for free will in that sense to be true, what is necessary is not so much indeterminism (or not just indeterminism), but rather infinitely recursive self-awareness and control?

    I don’t see how that should be a requirement. The only requirement is that which is found in the definition, which the ability to have chosen differently. That isn’t inherently logically impossible unless a restriction is required that would cause logical contradictions.

    For example, is the existence of a Flying Spaghetti Monster logically impossible? By itself, I don’t see how it is. Now, what if we require that the FSM exists in a universe where flying is impossible? Then such a Flying Spaghetti Monster would be logically impossible.

    Is free will, by itself, logically impossible? I don’t see how it is. By itself, there is nothing that prevents me from saying that the ability to choose otherwise exists because it exists. Now, what if we require that free will exists in a completely deterministic universe? Then I could see how this deterministic requirement prevents me from saying that the ability to choose otherwise exists. But if determinism isn’t a requirement, then there would be nothing contradicting its logical existence.

    — Would you agree that if it could be proved that infinitely recursive self-awareness and control is logically impossible, free will is logically impossible?

    I don’t see how infinitely recursive self-awareness/control is a requirement, so the question is moot.

    But even if I agree that it is a requirement, I don’t think you can convince me that infinitely recursive self-awareness is logically impossible. As I illustrated with the FSM example, it becomes logically impossible only if you introduce a requirement that would make it impossible.

  32. 532
    joey

    mikmik:
    Sorry, I think I completely missed post 244.

    joey’s and my thinking is the correct interpretation of our behavior, and determinism is true, but reductionism is false.

    But I’m not a determinist nor a reductionist. But if I were a determinist (or a physicalist), then I would also be a reductionist.

  33. 533
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    My daughter just told me that she has been praying.

    To El-ahrairah.

  34. 534
    Cipher

    I’m reminded of bell hooks’s “I advocate …” instead of “I am a …”.

    To continue my pattern of demanding that people educate me: Hey sg, what book by bell hooks should I read first? I’m working on basic feminist academic readings right now and really need to figure out my reading list. Right now, I have Gender Trouble by Judith Butler and I’m supposed to be reading something by Eve Sedgwick but I don’t remember what. One of my FB friends recommended bell hooks to me, but she’s only read the one book by her, so isn’t sure what is best to start with.

  35. 535
    Jadehawk

    I’m not on-board with the “contra-causal” description of free will. I prefer the “ability to have chosen differently” definition.

    that’s the same thing. you can only have chosen differently if your will were free from causality

  36. 536
    strange gods before me ॐ

    Cipher, everything I know about bell hooks comes from secondary sources. I haven’t read more than a few pages of her own stuff.

  37. 537
    Cipher

    Cipher, everything I know about bell hooks comes from secondary sources. I haven’t read more than a few pages of her own stuff.

    Oh! Well, thanks anyway. :P
    I hereby open the question to everybody :) Other “basic feminist reading” recommendations would be appreciated! My academic focus is ancient masculinities, although I need to get a better grasp on the lives of women. Right now I’m also trying to get a firmer foundation in Roman slavery, for which it would be helpful to read some work on non-ancient slavery too.

  38. 538
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    But even if I agree that it is a requirement, I don’t think you can convince me that infinitely recursive self-awareness is logically impossible.

    Who cares about convincing an evidenceless presuppositionalist about anything? Your mind is closed. So, why are you arguing? You can’t learn anything until you start challenging your presuppositions, and since we know you are a presuppositionalist (with fallacious presuppositions), your credibility is below zero. Time to shut the fuck up until you are willing to learn.

  39. 539
    strange gods before me ॐ

    Paul Loebe understandably does not want to be mistaken for a pitizen: http://freethoughtblogs.com/rockbeyondbelief/2012/07/07/dragged-into-the-slimepit/

    It looks to me like PZ got the mistaken impression that Paul’s post was in any way related to the discussion about sexism/pitizens, because it happened to post next after a post by Justin.

    I don’t think it’s fair that Paul’s disdain for “humanism” is assumed to mean that he’s actually against the basic idea of promoting humanity — considering that Josh here has voiced similar displeasure with “humanism” in the past, or at least with “Humanism”, and especially the “Harvard Humanists”.

    So yeah, I think PZ made an error, and Paul is understandably bothered by it. Considering the context Paul intended, Paul’s sentiments are very Pharyngulish.

    (I’ve left one comment saying ‘Hm. What are the chances dude who said “I hate Marines” is/was in another branch of the armed forces?’ but it’s still in moderation.)

  40. 540
    strange gods before me ॐ

    Posted the rest of the above as a second comment. Looks like he’s not going to be checking the moderation queue for a while.

  41. 541
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    I posted a comment that’s in moderation there as well.

    What did I miss? How’s PZ involved?

  42. 542
    Cipher

    There’s a link to this comment by PZ in Paul’s post, but I couldn’t quite figure out what was going on right off the bat.

  43. 543
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    Ah. I remember those comments, but I didn’t recall any being from PZ. For some reason, links to specific comments here these days just go to the thread and not to the comment itself for me.

  44. 544
    joey

    Jadehawk:

    I’m not on-board with the “contra-causal” description of free will. I prefer the “ability to have chosen differently” definition.

    that’s the same thing. you can only have chosen differently if your will were free from causality

    Not necessarily. You could have chosen differently if there are multiple wills (effects) for a single cause. In other words, causes do not have to constrain the future to a single course.

  45. 545
    chigau (違う)

    theophontes
    I approve.

  46. 546
    Owlmirror

    I prefer the “ability to have chosen differently” definition.

    Hm; OK.

    — Would you agree that for free will in that sense to be true, what is necessary is not so much indeterminism (or not just indeterminism), but rather infinitely recursive self-awareness and control?

    I don’t see how that should be a requirement.

    Oh, dear. We’re not only not on the same page, we’re not even in the same library, let alone in the same book.

    The only requirement is that which is found in the definition, which the ability to have chosen differently.

    The trouble is, you’re using the phrase glibly, and not thinking deeply about what an ability necessarily entails.

    LILAPWLॐ used a phrasing that hinted at the problem of infinite recursion.

    Would you agree that “the ability to have chosen differently” means that “you can have chosen to have chosen differently?”

    multiple wills (effects) for a single cause.

    What is this supposed to mean? An effect is not equivalent to a will.

  47. 547
    Cipher

    For some reason, links to specific comments here these days just go to the thread and not to the comment itself for me.

    That’s frustrating! Did you try clicking the URL bar and hitting enter again after the page has loaded? Sorry if you already have, but I had a similar problem and sgbm told me to try that and it helped.

  48. 548
    Cipher

    Jesus fucking Christ.
    That thread, that I get email thread, that is worse than usual, right? Because I seriously don’t have a fucking shred of patience left. I just want to burn the entire fucking world to a cinder at this point. And that’s even with people coming in periodically and saying beautiful stuff.

  49. 549
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ chigau

    I approve.

    Yippeee! (The key to remaining in power is to retain approval from the main players on the politburo.)

    You may well wonder how a tardigrade would ever be in a position to seize the reigns of power in the first place: Tardigrade Command Center in Central TZT. (Through various powers of magnification.)

  50. 550
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    Oh Lordy! No punters here…

    {theophontes shuffles of backstage, returns with dancing tardigrades, all wearing phrygian caps and brandishing medieval stringed instruments. cacophony ensues (even before the booze is guzzled)}:

    There came three men out of the West,
    Their victory to try;
    And they have taken a solemn oath,
    Poor Barleycorn should die.

    They took a plough and ploughed him in,
    And harrowed clods on his head;
    And then they took a solemn oath,
    Poor Barleycorn was dead.

    There he lay sleeping in the ground,
    Till rain from the sky did fall:
    Then Barleycorn sprung up his head,
    And so amazed them all.

    There he remained till Midsummer,
    And looked both pale and wan;
    Then Barleycorn he got a beard,
    And so became a man.

    Then they sent men with scythes so sharp,
    To cut him off at knee;
    And then poor little Barleycorn,
    They served him barbarously.

    Then they sent men with pitchforks strong
    To pierce him through the heart;
    And like a dreadful tragedy,
    They bound him to a cart.

    And then they brought him to a barn,
    A prisoner to endure;
    And so they fetched him out again,
    And laid him on the floor.

    Then they set men with holly clubs,
    To beat the flesh from his bones;
    But the miller he served him worse than that,
    For he ground him betwixt two stones.

    O! Barleycorn is the choicest grain
    That ever was sown on land;
    It will do more than any grain,
    By the turning of your hand.

    It will make a boy into a man,
    And a man into an ass;
    It will change your gold into silver,
    And your silver into brass.

    It will make the huntsman hunt the fox,
    That never wound his horn;
    It will bring the tinker to the stocks,
    That people may him scorn.

    It will put sack into a glass,
    And claret in the can;
    And it will cause a man to drink
    Till he neither can go nor stand.

  51. 551
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    Cipher, OM:

    Things always seem to get bad when the SOL is away from the console. Threads linger and attract flies. I hardly have the heart to read much less participate.

  52. 552
    mikmik

    theophontes (坏蛋)
    You may well wonder how a tardigrade would ever be in a position to seize the reigns of power in the first place: Tardigrade Command Center in Central TZT. (Through various powers of magnification.)

    What a handsome little bug(ger) you is!

  53. 553
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    reasonable fellow:

    Given the explanations and evidence that have been presented to you within this thread, do you think that a transwoman’s self identification as a woman has a biological component or not?

  54. 554
    Inaji

    Heads up: “reasonable fellow” has been quarantined by PZ.

  55. 555
    Emrysmyrddin

    Oh dear fuck, what an arsehole RF be. I’m glad they’re contained here, I can roam the rest of the site freely now.

    I used to work with an arsehole who thought it was hilarious to take the piss out of a trans colleague as soon as she’d left the room. I can’t remember the last time I’ve exploded so hard in public. I don’t care if it was ‘her generation’ or ‘her sacred opinion’ or whatevertheFUCK, just get out of my fucking space with that hateful bullshit. First week on the damn job and I get that poison poured in my ear, so I can’t imagine how bad it must have been for my colleague on a day to day basis.

    ‘Reasonablefellow’, you are no sceptic and you make me want to vomit. The ignorant can be taught; the bigoted repeat their hateful bullshit even after they’ve been taught. Bigot.

  56. 556
    Louis

    RF is so obviously trolling he won’t last, esp given recent in other thread actions.

    Same trolls, different day.

    Louis

  57. 557
    Owlmirror

    “Reasonable fellow” will not be coming to TZT, because he does not have the free will to not be an asshole.

  58. 558
    mikmik

    My post #244.
    You people can argue all you want, but our decision making involves multiple feedbacks and evaluations, multidimensionally between at least 3 networks with millions of connections, feedback, incorporation of new sensory information and generated thoughts in a non-time specific process, FOR FUCKS SAKE.
    HAVE ANY OF YOU BEEN READING MY POSTS?

    Can we get this fucking discussion out of the 19th century? How much shit do I have to research and link to in order to get it through anyone’s head that discussing reductionism and non-free willism is MOOT.

    Fuck, here is more:The neurobiology of decision: consensus and controversy.

    Abstract

    We review and synthesize recent neurophysiological studies of decision making in humans and nonhuman primates. From these studies, the basic outline of the neurobiological mechanism for primate choice is beginning to emerge. The identified mechanism is now known to include a multicomponent valuation stage, implemented in ventromedial prefrontal cortex and associated parts of striatum, and a choice stage, implemented in lateral prefrontal and parietal areas. Neurobiological studies of decision making are beginning to enhance our understanding of economic and social behavior as well as our understanding of significant health disorders where people’s behavior plays a key role.

    – - -

    I’ve linked neurobiological fMRI studies and authors that say we have free will, I have linked to the philpapers survey that shows that only 12.2% of philosophers don’t think we have free will, and only 13% think we have libertarian free will, and that 59% are compatibilists.

    I have described how I performed the ‘go back in time’ experiment on myself, where I explained that I could have chosen to do differently at any time.[goofy grin with shrug]

    I’ve destroyed every fucking single ‘link’ to Dennet and other so called arguments for hard determinism, and then I look shit up on Google and find many vindicating opinions and criticisms in support of what I easily reasoned by using simple common sense.

    Back alley walk and supporting fMRI papers
    What reductionism?

    My comment #71

    Coyne is fucked up when it comes to his understanding, and use of, “going back in time to the same place and deciding differently,” as has been shown many times, the least of which was ME doing it. He could not even comprehend what Massimo Pilgucci meant when MP said that it is a faulty thought experiment because going back to that decision moment doesn’t include the idea that “I could have chosen differently if I had wanted to,” because it is meaningless to say there is ONE SINGLE INSTANT THAT COMPRISES A DECISION.
    kel said it earlier, and my link to the research paper, by an fMRI neurologist’s published data, that has been cited 76 times, that there is no such thing as a ‘point of decision,’ or even a ‘where it occurs!’
    Here is yet another of myriad articles and research and philosophy that deconstructs a paper For the law, neuroscience changes nothing and everything..
    The linked page to pubmed is chock full of neuroscience stuff, neuroscience and law, neuroscience and responsibility… Fill your boots. Maybe you guys can find something concrete to support you viewpoints so I don’t have to argue against trivial blabbering. ;)
    – – -
    Here is an interesting research bit that includes graphical plotting of fMRI results, with explanations for their findings, and it is an example of something I’m becoming more aware of being a growing area of interest in neuro-psychiatric and neuro-biological studies and tests.
    The neurobiology of decision-making and responsibility: reconciling mechanism and mindedness.

    Abstract
    This essay reviews recent developments in neurobiology which are beginning to expose the mechanisms that underlie some elements of decision-making that bear on attributions of responsibility. These “elements” have been mainly studied in simple perceptual decision tasks, which are performed similarly by humans and non-human primates. Here we consider the role of neural noise, and suggest that thinking about the role of noise can shift the focus of discussions of randomness in decision-making away from its role in enabling alternate possibilities and toward a potential grounding role for responsibility.

    Here is a challenge. Find any two credible(not already refuted) papers or published article from each of these fields: Neuroscience, Philosophy, and Theoretical Physics, that hold that they are 100% certain that the incompatibilist, determinist view that we do not have free will is proven.
    I will refute them, or show their weaknesses, probably without even looking anything up – except to support my opinion, if necessary.

    I’m still waiting for everyone’s ‘evidence’ and an explanation for their reasoning that I haven’t already fucking dismantled with a sledge hammer. I have stated that from a reductionist, hard determinist position, I agree that we cannot have free will, and that I held this position most of my life – without really thinking about it – until the article here, Pharingula, about Dec. 2, 2011.

    I’ve changed my view over the last few years, without realizing it, because of my heroin and alcohol addictions, and the fucking bullshit in the 12 step programs.

    I’ve held the opinion that joey is full of shit (the stand your ground article) and insulted him greatly, but I no longer think so, or do so. He makes good arguments, AFAIK, but is more knowledgeable in philosophy than me.
    My strong points are logic and science, and scientific methodology(cue laughter from the audience!).

    I am trying to introduce science, law, and psychology into the debate, because I am fucking tired of hearing, “there’s no such thing as free will – it is impossible’ from physicalists, incompatiblists, and/or whatever.
    I am a property dualist in the form “Non-reductive Physicalism.”

    Shit, I have to go. I am sorry for the long posts.

  59. 559
    rrede

    Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy: re feminist reading recommendations.

    Just joined–my disssertation was on ethnicity and race in N. American feminist discourse, and I teach my department’s gender course!

    Judith Butler is TOUGH (major important on the gender theory stuff), but after her first chapter, I found her work almost impenetrable.

    The Sedgwick you probably got rec’d was her first major one: Epistelmology of the Closet (http://books.google.com/books/about/Eve_Kosofsky_Sedgwick.html?id=Ra1Qq5PCnB4C). I find it hard but worth while digging at, much more so than Butler.

    hooks has published so much: http://www.infed.org/thinkers/hooks.htm#biblio

    And I find her work much more accessible (she has that as a guiding principle!)–I’ve taught essays by her in first year comp courses.

    Her first book, and first one I read:

    hooks, bell (1982) Ain’t I a Woman. Black women and feminism, London: Pluto Press. 205 pages.

    Resources on hooks:

    http://www.synaptic.bc.ca/ejournal/hooks.htm

    It would be impossible for me to pick one hooks–her work has gone in amazing directions in multiple genres over time (her work on pedagogy is used a lot in my department’s teaching colloquia).

    Basic feminism can mean so many things–a writer/thinker who, like hooks, is doing intersectional work (i.e. not just white feminist focus on gender) is Crenshaw: some of her work is available online:

    http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=Kimberle+Crenshaw+intersectionality&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ei=utv5T6DKIOnc6wGJp6jVBg&ved=0CFAQgQMwAA

    If you’re into the ancient/classical stuff, you might enjoy Elizabeth Spelman’s INESSENTIAL WOMAN

    http://books.google.com/books/about/Inessential_Woman.html?id=ohIY00toUIkC

  60. 560
    Ingdigo Jump

    Btw just want to point out that IIRC Pat Fucking Robertson has a more sensitive position on trans people than reasonpisser

  61. 561
    Louis

    Really?

    Whoa, that’s bad.

    But, Ing, as you and I have noted (and I am sure everyone else has too) Reasonable Fellow is just trolling for yucks. That’s it, that’s the sum total of everything he* is up to.

    It’s been abundantly obvious for ages.

    Feed the fucker ’til he pops.

    Louis

    * I am deliberately assuming he is a he. Fuckwittedness this powerful seems to be more common in my sex! ;-) (Tongue meets cheek)

  62. 562
    Inaji

    I have to get away from the “all!kittens!all!the!time!kitten!cam!posts!about!kitten cam!every!other!fucking!post! in TET.

    Yeesh.

    Yeah, looks like RF took the “oh yeah? Ban me!” route. I wish PZ would arrive home or wake up or whatever and squarsh it.

    I am amused that s/he’s very upset by my using their own reasoning back at them.

  63. 563
    cm's changeable moniker (quaint, if not charming)

    From the “I get email” thread, Louis:

    Balham

    Oh! how my heartstrings sing!

    When we first met, Mrs M lived in Blaahm. ;-)

    the flaming chimp district of London

    Ah, yes, I remember well the Pitcher and Pan-ferno.

  64. 564
    A. R

    I got a sunburn today, I look like a reverse raccoon.

  65. 565
    strange gods before me ॐ

    I did a wget of ERV’s “periodic table of swearing” thread (the last iteration of the slimepit at ERV).

    Then I did grep –recursive –count –ignore-case cunt .

    ./comment-page-36/index.html:5
    ./comment-page-37/index.html:14
    ./comment-page-35/index.html:12
    ./comment-page-34/index.html:17
    ./comment-page-38/index.html:10
    ./comment-page-39/index.html:9
    ./comment-page-33/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-32/index.html:17
    ./comment-page-40/index.html:7
    ./comment-page-41/index.html:5
    ./comment-page-31/index.html:4
    ./comment-page-30/index.html:40
    ./comment-page-42/index.html:8
    ./comment-page-43/index.html:18
    ./comment-page-29/index.html:7
    ./comment-page-28/index.html:6
    ./comment-page-44/index.html:7
    ./comment-page-45/index.html:8
    ./comment-page-27/index.html:9
    ./comment-page-26/index.html:6
    ./comment-page-46/index.html:9
    ./comment-page-47/index.html:4
    ./comment-page-25/index.html:6
    ./comment-page-24/index.html:13
    ./comment-page-48/index.html:19
    ./comment-page-49/index.html:7
    ./comment-page-84/index.html:3
    ./comment-page-85/index.html:3
    ./comment-page-83/index.html:4
    ./comment-page-82/index.html:9
    ./comment-page-23/index.html:17
    ./comment-page-22/index.html:21
    ./comment-page-51/index.html:3
    ./comment-page-50/index.html:4
    ./comment-page-86/index.html:7
    ./comment-page-87/index.html:11
    ./comment-page-16/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-81/index.html:5
    ./comment-page-80/index.html:3
    ./comment-page-52/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-21/index.html:5
    ./comment-page-20/index.html:5
    ./comment-page-17/index.html:5
    ./comment-page-18/index.html:7
    ./comment-page-53/index.html:6
    ./comment-page-88/index.html:16
    ./comment-page-89/index.html:8
    ./comment-page-15/index.html:5
    ./comment-page-14/index.html:6
    ./comment-page-79/index.html:8
    ./comment-page-78/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-54/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-19/index.html:4
    ./comment-page-55/index.html:4
    ./comment-page-90/index.html:5
    ./comment-page-91/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-13/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-12/index.html:10
    ./comment-page-77/index.html:11
    ./comment-page-76/index.html:6
    ./comment-page-56/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-57/index.html:4
    ./comment-page-92/index.html:5
    ./comment-page-93/index.html:22
    ./comment-page-11/index.html:8
    ./comment-page-10/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-75/index.html:7
    ./comment-page-74/index.html:8
    ./comment-page-59/index.html:10
    ./comment-page-58/index.html:3
    ./comment-page-60/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-94/index.html:10
    ./comment-page-95/index.html:7
    ./comment-page-9/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-8/index.html:5
    ./comment-page-97/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-73/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-72/index.html:4
    ./comment-page-61/index.html:12
    ./comment-page-62/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-98/index.html:8
    ./comment-page-96/index.html:4
    ./comment-page-7/index.html:5
    ./comment-page-6/index.html:8
    ./comment-page-99/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-71/index.html:8
    ./comment-page-70/index.html:7
    ./comment-page-63/index.html:8
    ./comment-page-64/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-100/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-5/index.html:3
    ./comment-page-4/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-101/index.html:12
    ./comment-page-69/index.html:19
    ./comment-page-68/index.html:8
    ./comment-page-65/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-66/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-102/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-3/index.html:18
    ./comment-page-2/index.html:3
    ./comment-page-106/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-103/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-67/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-104/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-1/index.html:3
    ./comment-page-105/index.html:1
    ./index.html:1

  66. 566
    strange gods before me ॐ

    Here is grep &46;&46;recursive &46;&46;count &46;&46;ignore-case twat .

    ./comment-page-36/index.html:3
    ./comment-page-37/index.html:5
    ./comment-page-35/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-34/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-38/index.html:8
    ./comment-page-39/index.html:5
    ./comment-page-33/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-32/index.html:7
    ./comment-page-40/index.html:5
    ./comment-page-41/index.html:4
    ./comment-page-31/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-30/index.html:4
    ./comment-page-42/index.html:6
    ./comment-page-43/index.html:7
    ./comment-page-29/index.html:4
    ./comment-page-28/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-44/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-45/index.html:6
    ./comment-page-27/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-26/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-46/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-47/index.html:5
    ./comment-page-25/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-24/index.html:3
    ./comment-page-48/index.html:8
    ./comment-page-49/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-84/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-85/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-83/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-82/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-23/index.html:4
    ./comment-page-22/index.html:6
    ./comment-page-51/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-50/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-86/index.html:8
    ./comment-page-87/index.html:5
    ./comment-page-16/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-81/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-80/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-52/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-21/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-20/index.html:3
    ./comment-page-17/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-18/index.html:6
    ./comment-page-53/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-88/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-89/index.html:3
    ./comment-page-15/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-14/index.html:7
    ./comment-page-79/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-78/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-54/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-19/index.html:5
    ./comment-page-55/index.html:4
    ./comment-page-90/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-91/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-13/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-12/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-77/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-76/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-56/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-57/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-92/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-93/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-11/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-10/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-75/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-74/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-59/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-58/index.html:5
    ./comment-page-60/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-94/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-95/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-9/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-8/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-97/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-73/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-72/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-61/index.html:3
    ./comment-page-62/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-98/index.html:4
    ./comment-page-96/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-7/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-6/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-99/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-71/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-70/index.html:3
    ./comment-page-63/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-64/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-100/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-5/index.html:11
    ./comment-page-4/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-101/index.html:4
    ./comment-page-69/index.html:4
    ./comment-page-68/index.html:5
    ./comment-page-65/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-66/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-102/index.html:3
    ./comment-page-3/index.html:6
    ./comment-page-2/index.html:6
    ./comment-page-106/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-103/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-67/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-104/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-1/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-105/index.html:0
    ./index.html:0

  67. 567
    strange gods before me ॐ

    fucking #

    Of course that was Here is grep ..recursive ..count ..ignore-case twat .

  68. 568
    strange gods before me ॐ

    okay now I’m just enraged and I’ve got to defeat html encoding in hand to hand combad.

    grep --recursive --count --ignore-case cunt .

    grep --recursive --count --ignore-case twat .

    respectively.

  69. 569
    A. R

    ॐ: I’m going to go ahead and extend you an offer for a position in the Praecursitori (TZT/Pharyngula special intelligence) cyber-intelligence division considering your above work.

  70. 570
    strange gods before me ॐ

    By my first count that’s 723 instances of the first case.

    Note that some of those appear in urls like internationalcuntkickday.tk.

  71. 571
    strange gods before me ॐ

    Offer me a position? I thought I was the cyber-intelligence division.

    I got the tartigrade through China’s great firewall! :)

  72. 572
    strange gods before me ॐ

    723 instances of the first and 247 instances of the second.

    This count may be low; it looks like she deleted the thread roughly just now — so it may have disappeared during my wget.

  73. 573
    A. R

    ॐ: Yes, you are the Inquisitori (TZT internal intelligence, equivalent to the Domestic KGB) cyber-intelligence division. This is an offer for a position in external intelligence (like the KGB foreign ops division or the GRU). /blather to cover teh magnificent leader’s blunder

  74. 574
    strange gods before me ॐ

    Nah, looks like I got the whole thing. Just in time, although she says she’s going to post them all elsewhere soon.

    At 10590 comments, that’s an average of 1 cunt or twat for every 11 comments.

  75. 575
    A. R

    Hmm, I wonder if she has archived the thread. If so, the Praecursitori will require a copy. If not, we have something to mock them about.

  76. 576
    strange gods before me ॐ

    Ah, I get it now A. R.

    I’m pretty sure I’ll be disappeared if I say no, so I accept!

    +++++
    grep &x2d;&x2d;recursive &x2d;&x2d;count &x2d;&x2d;ignore-case [Watson with a T- prefix, which triggers PZ's spam filter] .

    ./comment-page-36/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-37/index.html:4
    ./comment-page-35/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-34/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-38/index.html:7
    ./comment-page-39/index.html:3
    ./comment-page-33/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-32/index.html:6
    ./comment-page-40/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-41/index.html:4
    ./comment-page-31/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-30/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-42/index.html:6
    ./comment-page-43/index.html:7
    ./comment-page-29/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-28/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-44/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-45/index.html:4
    ./comment-page-27/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-26/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-46/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-47/index.html:5
    ./comment-page-25/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-24/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-48/index.html:8
    ./comment-page-49/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-84/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-85/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-83/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-82/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-23/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-22/index.html:5
    ./comment-page-51/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-50/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-86/index.html:4
    ./comment-page-87/index.html:4
    ./comment-page-16/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-81/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-80/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-52/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-21/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-20/index.html:3
    ./comment-page-17/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-18/index.html:5
    ./comment-page-53/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-88/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-89/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-15/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-14/index.html:6
    ./comment-page-79/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-78/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-54/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-19/index.html:5
    ./comment-page-55/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-90/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-91/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-13/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-12/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-77/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-76/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-56/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-57/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-92/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-93/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-11/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-10/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-75/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-74/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-59/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-58/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-60/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-94/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-95/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-9/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-8/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-97/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-73/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-72/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-61/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-62/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-98/index.html:4
    ./comment-page-96/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-7/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-6/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-99/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-71/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-70/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-63/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-64/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-100/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-5/index.html:11
    ./comment-page-4/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-101/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-69/index.html:1
    ./comment-page-68/index.html:5
    ./comment-page-65/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-66/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-102/index.html:3
    ./comment-page-3/index.html:3
    ./comment-page-2/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-106/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-103/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-67/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-104/index.html:0
    ./comment-page-1/index.html:2
    ./comment-page-105/index.html:0
    ./index.html:0

  77. 577
    strange gods before me ॐ

    fucking #

    That’s quite enough of that. I was going to stop now anyway! I swear!

  78. 578
    A. R

    ॐ: Very good. theophontes will provide you with your badge and cyberpistol. Also, we apparently have even more proof the the slimepit is nasty.

  79. 579
    Owlmirror

    Psst, ixchel: there’s a secret [about] <code>

    grep --recursive --count --ignore-case
    grep [\'\"]

  80. 580
    Owlmirror

    (although looking at that, I’m baffled as to why not:

    grep -Ric

    )

  81. 581
    Owlmirror

    /nerdlier-than-thou

  82. 582
    strange gods before me ॐ

    why not   grep -Ric

    Because I want the uninitiated reader to have some idea what it is they’re looking at.

    (This turned out not the way I planned, though, considering my evident compulsion to get the goddamn hyphens to display correctly here.)

    No need to reach wayyyy over to that shift key, by the way. grep -ric will work just as well. :)

  83. 583
    strange gods before me ॐ

    Looks like 162 instances of [Watson with a T- prefix].

  84. 584
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war

    Herewith your official badge and cyberpistol. You’ll have to go about in mufti for a while, as we seem to be having a hiccup with our uniform supplier.

  85. 585
    chigau (違う)

    whereinhell is my badge?
    and pistol? (cyber or other??)

  86. 586
    A. R

    chigau: Hmm, this is a problem. What branch or TZT service do you belong to again? Military (incl. both Intelligence agencies), Religion, Government, etc. each have different insignia. I for example, have three badges already.

  87. 587
    chigau (違う)

    A. R
    I am 2ICBDFL.
    I don’t actually need no stinking badges.
    (I do want the gun.)

  88. 588
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ A.R

    How to draw trolls. (linky)

  89. 589
    strange gods before me ॐ

    Herewith your official badge

    That’s adorable, thank you!

    and cyberpistol.

    No need; I will just hack into the LOLstar when I need firepower.

  90. 590
    A. R

    chigau: I believe ॐ has a cyberpistol you can have.

    theophontes: I must ask where one may purchase such a product!

    ॐ: Just try to hack into the LOLstar… [Evil finger tenting]

  91. 591
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    {theophontes thinks: Mmmmh, somethings up with Agent ॐ and Director A.R … Who can be trusted? Who will watch the watchers? An age-old problem for Dictators everywhere. Reminds me of the trouble great-uncle Pharophontes had with the Mamluks. Better stock up on ‘Janissary-Be-Gone ™’ … apparently that worked well.}

  92. 592
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ gingerail [troll transfer from TET]

    How is that the elite, superintelligent masters of social interaction here on FfTB and other leftist blogs keep losing elections and political ground to stupid, socially inept wingnuts?

    There are a large number of Right Wing Authoritarians (google it) in American society. It does not matter to them that their leaders display their ineptness, as long as they display “Leadership ™ “.

    Your competition is Glenn Beck and Bill O’Reilly and you can’t ever seem to win?

    In what sense “can’t ever seem to win”? Your concept of winning may require adjustment.

  93. 593
  94. 594
    Ingdigo Jump

    Ummmm at the risk of opening our own flame door. Can we possibly consider lifting the probation for TET for SGBM? Maybe it’s just me but I think with TZT and new lounge decorum that the problem people had is solved?

  95. 595
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    Ing: I found the ban unfair, and haven’t read or commented on the Endless since it occurred.

    Also (irrelevant): The meaning of your agnomen just dawned on me. Or at least the gerund part. Still working out the death angle. I am some kind of knucklehead. But anyway, good one. I like it.

  96. 596
    Ida Know

    Caine @61,

    But it’s fine when it’s rats, right?

  97. 597
    Ida Know

    BTW, I have no problem with you or anyone posting about rats. I’m neutral on them, myself, but I’m glad they give some people pleasure. Like cats do me.

  98. 598
    Jadehawk

    Still working out the death angle.

    pretty sure that “of death” was one of those handle-memes that went around Pharyngula a long while back…

  99. 599
    chigau (違う)

    I agree with lifting the TET ban for ॐ.
    It has probably Served Its Purpose™
    (whatever that was)

  100. 600
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ Ing

    Can we possibly consider lifting the probation for TET for SGBM?

    Good point. We need a superspy to keep an eye on developments there -FSM knows the Politburo cannot keep up with all that goes on throughout Pharyngula. (The alternative is that we dig tunnels under TET for Shanghai-ing new crew and trollnapping their troll infestations.)

    ……

    Trollnapping 101
    : Trolls cause a lot of unnecessary distraction and noise on the more “civilised” threads. There is a simple solution – even given the advanced stages of SIWOTI-syndrome suffered by most Pharyngulites.

    We simply stop responding at the locus of the troll infestation, instead posting responses on TZT with a direct link back from the source. This requires the smallest amount of effort, but has the potential to shift trolls here quickly. (They want,need, to interact. Posting the reply to another location (ie: TZT) will certainly relocate them. This keeps the source thread clean and supplies us with a constant source of chew-toys. Win-win-win.)

  101. 601
    Inaji

    LDTR:

    But it’s fine when it’s rats, right?

    If I had a cam going and every other fucking post was about rats, no, it wouldn’t be fine.

  102. 602
    Inaji

    Ixchel:

    I did a wget of ERV’s “periodic table of swearing” thread (the last iteration of the slimepit at ERV).

    The “periodic table of swearing” has been carried over to the new slimepit digs. They’re calling it ‘the undead thread’.

  103. 603
    chigau (違う)

    Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery?

  104. 604
    Inaji

    Chigau:

    Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery?

    So it seems. :D

  105. 605
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ chigau

    Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery?

    Mwahahahaha… But do they have a repressive Politburo ruling a cybernetic wasteland with iron fists? *amateurs*

  106. 606
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    The “periodic table of swearing” has been carried over to the new slimepit digs. They’re calling it ‘the undead thread’.

    Shit! Now I feel filthy. This is what I have been calling the endless thread for the last couple of years.

  107. 607
    chigau (違う)

    Janine
    your psykik!

  108. 608
    Irène Delse, on dry land among seabirds

    So, first, the ERVites name their new hangout “Slymepit”, after the “slimepit” nickname bestowed on them here; then they copy the “zombie threads” and “endless threads” of Pharyngula with their own “undead thread”?

    Tsk. These clowns clones are really pathetic.

  109. 609
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery?

    Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery?

  110. 610
    chigau (違う)

    AE
    I, for one, am flattered.

  111. 611
    A. R

    I have finished the designs for the agency ID cards, and will post when I decide on a photo-sharing site.

  112. 612
    strange gods before me ॐ

    Ing,

    Can we possibly consider lifting the probation for TET for SGBM? Maybe it’s just me but I think with TZT and new lounge decorum that the problem people had is solved?

    Thank you for mentioning it again.

    Like I said before, I can abide by the New Rules of TET, and I would have already been abiding by them if they had existed when I was kicked out.

  113. 613
    strange gods before me ॐ

    Plus if there’s anything that Chas and Ing both can agree on, then it must be as obvious as the sky being blue. ;)

  114. 614
    'Tis Himself

    it must be as obvious as the sky being blue.

    I just looked out the window. The sky is black with tiny speckles of white scattered across it.

  115. 615
    Inaji

    Ixchel, seems to me an appeal to PZ is needed, rather than hoping he catches the discussion here.

  116. 616
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    Ixchel, seems to me an appeal to PZ is needed, rather than hoping he catches the discussion here.

    I’ve been trying to mind-link the SOL all day, but I guess he is too busy checking out the new ITunes features.

  117. 617
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    Or, like iTunes. Or whatever.

  118. 618
    strange gods before me ॐ

    Ixchel, seems to me an appeal to PZ is needed, rather than hoping he catches the discussion here.

    Probably. I’m not in any hurry though, and in any case it’s still true that he and I don’t get along smashingly, so I don’t think it would do me a wholelotta good to ask on my own behalf.

    +++++
    I have the following comment still waiting in moderation over on Loebe’s post, in response to a pitizen. I’m copying it here for reference in case I have to resubmit it or something.

    +++++
    Maybe it would help if you’d try to explain just what you think your google searches are measuring, and why you think that measurement is somehow relevant to whatever it is you think you’re discussing.

    It is no revelation that there are a relatively small number of threads on Sb which contain that word. Relatively few of the threads on Sb are about challenging sexism. I notice, though, that the first result on Sb is «XMRV and chronic fatigue syndrome: PI FAIL – erv» wherein the blogger Abbie Smith calls Judy Mikovits such.

    First result on FtB is «The “Justifications for Saying ‘C[***]‘” bingo card | Blag Hag», which is a challenge to the fairly common practice of applying the word to people. Since it is a fairly common practice, and many of us here at FtB want to make it less common, we talk about why it’s not cool.

    Your whole argument, such as it is, seems to be premised on the notion that a lot of people at FtB object to “using the word”, full stop.

    We don’t.

    I object to using it to refer to a person, using it in a derogatory manner, using it to refer to the genitalia of a woman who has not told you to refer to her genitalia that way, using it in a way which implies inferiority, and claiming the word doesn’t mean what it means. The threads I know of on FtB are either about the usage of the word, or they’re threads in which some troll used the word to refer to a person and then other people responded explaining why that’s not cool.

    However, although I do not have stats to hand to prove it, I am pretty certain the Abominable Phrase has been said by Ophelia far, far more than it has at ERV.

    Assuming this is true, what do you think you’re saying? She brings it up to make the point that there’s something wrong with a society in which someone says this to a woman. She brings it up to remind people that yes this kind of social problem still exists; it’s not something we left behind in the 70s.

    You might note that Ophelia actually took account of that, and therefore changed her wording of the phrase to “kick in the crotch” or “kick in the genitals”.

    Assuming this is true, what do you think you’re saying? I don’t read B&W; did you care to look up her reasoning? Suppose perhaps she got tired of the phrase itself because it’s too evocative and unpleasant for indefinite repetition? What do you think you’re telling me here?

    grep? google it.

  119. 619
    strange gods before me ॐ

    Dalillama,

    @ChasP
    Fuck off already, will you? You’ve never contributed a damn thing to any thread I’ve seen you on,

    Maybe you haven’t been looking much. Chas does contribute usefully, in various ways, and sometimes he’s even funny. Please remember in particular that he did a fair share of the heavy lifting and dropping of pianos on trolls during Elevatorgate, and has been consistently reliable on that front.

    I don’t want either Ing or Chas to fuck off, at least not in the sense of leaving, which seems to be what’s implied here.

  120. 620
    strange gods before me ॐ

    Chas, you should drop the “crybaby” claim. It is gratuitous. I think it’s in the same ballpark as mocking somebody for presumed loneliness; it’s not something that anyone should say to anyone.

  121. 621
    A. R

    ॐ: FWIW, you have the full support of the TZT Politburo behind your TET-reinstatement

  122. 622
    strange gods before me ॐ

    Ing, re your questions about reasonablefellow’s email and IP address: it’s very difficult and almost always unnecessary to fake an IP address. People just use various means of hiding it instead. Gmail hides it automatically; all emails sent from Gmail display one of the Gmail servers’ IP addresses instead of the sender’s IP address. This is a privacy feature which all email providers should adopt; the sender’s apparent IP address is still known to Google and can be provided to law enforcement entities who have a subpoena.

  123. 623
    strange gods before me ॐ

    Thanks, A. R, Antiochus Epiphanes, Caine, theophontes, chigau, and Ing again.

  124. 624
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    Needless to say, I agree with any calls to remove the offensive TET banning.

    I notice, though, that the first result on Sb is «XMRV and chronic fatigue syndrome: PI FAIL – erv» wherein the blogger Abbie Smith calls Judy Mikovits such.

    Noted at the time, by the way. (Dawkins’ comment there is also interesting.)

  125. 625
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    That’s frustrating! Did you try clicking the URL bar and hitting enter again after the page has loaded? Sorry if you already have, but I had a similar problem and sgbm told me to try that and it helped.

    Thanks, both of you, that works!

    …Why?

  126. 626
    Cipher

    SC, no problem! Do you have killfile engaged? If so, this post by sgbm might explain it – attempting to quote relevant portion:

    probably what’s happening is the <a>nchor tag is located before Greasemonkey is allowed to alter the page

  127. 627
    Cipher

    Of course, in my brain, killfile is a Great Miracle™ and its workings are an Arcane Mystery of Our Faith™, so I am not actually sure.

  128. 628
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ ixchel

    Perhaps I could try something devious. Like posting a flier on the fridge at the bar in TET while the horde are snoozing. (Link)

  129. 629
    chigau (違う)

    thewophontes
    I found that so funny.
    I am drunk and must to bed.

  130. 630
    strange gods before me ॐ

    (Dawkins’ comment there is also interesting.)

    That is interesting.

    Of course, in my brain, killfile is a Great Miracle™ and its workings are an Arcane Mystery of Our Faith™, so I am not actually sure.

    𝔙𝔢𝔯𝔦𝔩𝔶, 𝔊𝔯𝔢𝔞𝔰𝔢𝔪𝔬𝔫𝔨𝔢𝔶 𝔦𝔱𝔰𝔢𝔩𝔣 𝔦𝔰 𝔱𝔥𝔢 𝔊𝔯𝔢𝔞𝔱𝔢𝔯 𝔐𝔦𝔯𝔞𝔠𝔩𝔢!

    𝔊𝔯𝔢𝔞𝔰𝔢𝔪𝔬𝔫𝔨𝔢𝔶 𝔞𝔩𝔩𝔬𝔴𝔰 𝔲𝔰𝔢𝔯-𝔠𝔥𝔬𝔰𝔢𝔫 𝔍𝔞𝔳𝔞𝔰𝔠𝔯𝔦𝔭𝔱 𝔱𝔬 𝔯𝔲𝔫 𝔬𝔫 𝔞𝔫𝔶 𝔭𝔞𝔤𝔢, 𝔟𝔲𝔱 𝔦𝔱 𝔥𝔞𝔰 𝔱𝔬 𝔯𝔲𝔫 𝔩𝔞𝔰𝔱, 𝔞𝔣𝔱𝔢𝔯 𝔳𝔞𝔫𝔦𝔩𝔩𝔞 𝔉𝔦𝔯𝔢𝔣𝔬𝔵 𝔦𝔰 𝔣𝔦𝔫𝔦𝔰𝔥𝔢𝔡 𝔴𝔦𝔱𝔥 𝔱𝔥𝔢 𝔭𝔞𝔤𝔢. 𝔅𝔢𝔣𝔬𝔯𝔢 𝔉𝔦𝔯𝔢𝔣𝔬𝔵 𝔥𝔞𝔫𝔡𝔰 𝔱𝔥𝔢 𝔭𝔞𝔤𝔢 𝔬𝔳𝔢𝔯 𝔱𝔬 𝔊𝔯𝔢𝔞𝔰𝔢𝔪𝔬𝔫𝔨𝔢𝔶, 𝔦𝔱 𝔩𝔬𝔠𝔞𝔱𝔢𝔰 𝔱𝔥𝔢 <𝔞>𝔫𝔠𝔥𝔬𝔯 𝔱𝔞𝔤, 𝔩𝔢𝔱’𝔰 𝔰𝔞𝔶 𝔱𝔥𝔯𝔢𝔢 𝔠𝔲𝔟𝔦𝔱𝔰* 𝔡𝔬𝔴𝔫 𝔱𝔥𝔢 𝔭𝔞𝔤𝔢. 𝔄𝔫𝔡 𝔳𝔢𝔯𝔦𝔩𝔶, 𝔉𝔦𝔯𝔢𝔣𝔬𝔵 𝔡𝔦𝔰𝔭𝔩𝔞𝔶𝔰 𝔱𝔥𝔢 𝔭𝔞𝔤𝔢 𝔟𝔢𝔤𝔦𝔫𝔫𝔦𝔫𝔤 𝔞𝔱 𝔱𝔥𝔞𝔱 𝔰𝔭𝔬𝔱 (𝔱𝔥𝔯𝔢𝔢 𝔠𝔲𝔟𝔦𝔱𝔰 𝔡𝔬𝔴𝔫).

    𝔑𝔬𝔴 𝔦𝔱 𝔥𝔞𝔫𝔡𝔰 𝔱𝔥𝔢 𝔭𝔞𝔤𝔢 𝔬𝔳𝔢𝔯 𝔱𝔬 𝔊𝔯𝔢𝔞𝔰𝔢𝔪𝔬𝔫𝔨𝔢𝔶. 𝔊𝔯𝔢𝔞𝔰𝔢𝔪𝔬𝔫𝔨𝔢𝔶 𝔠𝔞𝔩𝔩𝔰 𝔨𝔦𝔩𝔩𝔣𝔦𝔩𝔢, 𝔴𝔥𝔦𝔠𝔥 𝔠𝔩𝔦𝔭𝔰 𝔬𝔲𝔱 𝔰𝔬𝔪𝔢 𝔠𝔬𝔫𝔱𝔢𝔫𝔱 𝔞𝔟𝔬𝔳𝔢 𝔱𝔥𝔢 <𝔞>𝔫𝔠𝔥𝔬𝔯, 𝔪𝔞𝔨𝔦𝔫𝔤 𝔱𝔥𝔢 𝔱𝔢𝔵𝔱 𝔰𝔥𝔬𝔯𝔱𝔢𝔯. 𝔅𝔲𝔱 𝔱𝔥𝔢 𝔡𝔦𝔰𝔭𝔩𝔞𝔶 𝔦𝔰 𝔰𝔱𝔦𝔩𝔩 𝔭𝔬𝔦𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔫𝔤 𝔞𝔱 𝔱𝔥𝔢 𝔰𝔞𝔪𝔢 𝔰𝔭𝔬𝔱, 𝔱𝔥𝔯𝔢𝔢 𝔠𝔲𝔟𝔦𝔱𝔰 𝔡𝔬𝔴𝔫, 𝔴𝔥𝔦𝔠𝔥 𝔦𝔰 𝔫𝔬𝔴 𝔰𝔥𝔬𝔴𝔦𝔫𝔤 𝔱𝔢𝔵𝔱 𝔱𝔥𝔞𝔱 𝔥𝔞𝔡 𝔭𝔯𝔢𝔳𝔦𝔬𝔲𝔰𝔩𝔶 𝔟𝔢𝔢𝔫 𝔢𝔳𝔢𝔫 𝔣𝔲𝔯𝔱𝔥𝔢𝔯 𝔡𝔬𝔴𝔫 𝔱𝔥𝔢 𝔭𝔞𝔤𝔢. 𝔚𝔥𝔢𝔫 𝔊𝔯𝔢𝔞𝔰𝔢𝔪𝔬𝔫𝔨𝔢𝔶 𝔦𝔰 𝔡𝔬𝔫𝔢, 𝔞𝔭𝔭𝔞𝔯𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔩𝔶 𝔫𝔢𝔦𝔱𝔥𝔢𝔯 𝔊𝔯𝔢𝔞𝔰𝔢𝔪𝔬𝔫𝔨𝔢𝔶 𝔫𝔬𝔯 𝔉𝔦𝔯𝔢𝔣𝔬𝔵 𝔟𝔬𝔱𝔥𝔢𝔯𝔰 𝔱𝔬 𝔠𝔥𝔢𝔠𝔨 𝔞𝔤𝔞𝔦𝔫 𝔴𝔥𝔢𝔯𝔢 𝔱𝔥𝔢 <𝔞>𝔫𝔠𝔥𝔬𝔯 𝔱𝔞𝔤 𝔦𝔰. ℑ’𝔪 𝔫𝔬𝔱 𝔰𝔲𝔯𝔢 𝔦𝔣 𝔱𝔥𝔦𝔰 𝔦𝔰 𝔞 𝔟𝔲𝔤 𝔬𝔯 𝔞 𝔣𝔢𝔞𝔱𝔲𝔯𝔢.

    *𝔭𝔯𝔬𝔟𝔞𝔟𝔩𝔶 𝔫𝔬𝔱 𝔠𝔲𝔟𝔦𝔱𝔰, 𝔪𝔞𝔶𝔟𝔢 𝔭𝔦𝔵𝔢𝔩𝔰, 𝔟𝔲𝔱 𝔦𝔱 𝔡𝔬𝔢𝔰𝔫’𝔱 𝔪𝔞𝔱𝔱𝔢𝔯 𝔣𝔬𝔯 𝔱𝔥𝔢 𝔭𝔲𝔯𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔢 𝔬𝔣 𝔱𝔥𝔦𝔰 𝔢𝔵𝔭𝔩𝔞𝔫𝔞𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫.

  131. 631
    'Tis Himself

    ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ #130

    A post full of small squares. How…um…interesting…I guess.

  132. 632
    strange gods before me ॐ

    It’s TZT. We speak in code here. Except when we forget to.

  133. 633
    John Morales

    ॐ, #130 works fine with my bog-standard Vista + FireFox.

  134. 634
    strange gods before me ॐ

    Glad to hear it.

  135. 635
    ChasCPeterson

    sg, I appreciate your #119. (who is Dalillama?)

    sg @#120: your opinion is noted. I very much deplore the behavior* it’s meant to be shorthand for, but I guess the term does not connote the same idea to others.

    *which, for clarification, is not the crying itself, but a) the inability to take even a teensy hint of the criticism one dishes out daily, with invective, to others, and b) the implicit entitlement to the right to freedom from criticism and the right to the last word.

  136. 636
    John Morales

    Chas,

    (who is Dalillama?)

    The name is familiar; good commenter, if sparse.

  137. 637
    pelamun, the Linguist of Doom

    sgbm was banned from TET? Why, what happened?

  138. 638
    strange gods before me ॐ

    My comment over at Loebe’s is still in moderation, but he’s now released two more comments after mine.

    I can still see mine over there; it’s timestamped July 9, 2012 at 3:33 am.

    He’s released comments stamped July 9, 2012 at 6:27 pm and 9:09 pm.

    Tired of the slimepit discussion he started, I imagine, and now he’s apparently going to let the pitizen have the last word.

  139. 639
  140. 640
    pelamun, the Linguist of Doom

    sgbm,

    thank you. That was while I was away. I have to see how far back this goes, but it’ll take me some time to read up on all o’ that, that’s for sure..

  141. 641
    Ingdigo Jump

    Plus if there’s anything that Chas and Ing both can agree on, then it must be as obvious as the sky being blue. ;)

    Also turtles. Chas was very helpful in helping me ID the baby turtle I found

    *olive branch*

  142. 642
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    Tired of the slimepit discussion he started, I imagine, and now he’s apparently going to let the pitizen have the last word.

    I haven’t bothered to comment more there after wishing him luck. He’s irritating – now I return to find that he’s generalized from my remark about talking being action in this context to make it sound like a different statement. I don’t have the patience for that, especially with the pitters around.

    ***

    In case anyone’s interested, an update: I’ve just posted links on my blog to analysis of the legislative coup in Paraguay (much more significant than it might first appear). I’ve also posted about GSK’s $3 billion fines and Joanna Moncrieff’s book The Myth of the Chemical Cure.

  143. 643
    Cipher

    Rrede, thanks for the recommendations! I’m okay with hard readings – I’m doing the reading as prep for grad work, so pretty motivated to slog through it.

  144. 644
    ChasCPeterson

    I hate olives.

    (yust yokin)

  145. 645
    Phalacrocorax, z Třetího Světa

    legislative coup in Paraguay

    Good to know that Paraguay has been noted. I remember seeing almost no mention of Lugo’s deposition in English-language media.

    On a related note, I find this:

    «US views Brazil as a geopolitical rival in the region, and in the long term Washington might find that having a network of bases in surrounding countries serves its strategic objectives»

    rather distressing.

  146. 646
    cm's changeable moniker (quaint, if not charming)

    SC, thanks for the Moncrieff post.

    From what little I could find of her on the internet (my huge pile of unread books says I probably shouldn’t add hers to it), she seemed eminently sensible. Nice to have that confirmed.

  147. 647
    ChasCPeterson

    well, actually I really do hate olives, but I was joking by saying it just then.

  148. 648
    Cipher

    sgbm was banned from TET? Why, what happened?

    One of those nasty flamewars that happen from time to time. Here’s the post where sgbm was banned – here’s the post where he is reinstated.

  149. 649
    Cipher

    SG, thanks for the explanation of greasemonkey and killfile, btw. Unrelatedly, hey look! You’re allowed back in TET.

  150. 650
    Cipher

    I like green olives with pimentos and kalamata olives, but I hate the black olives that come on pizza sometimes.

  151. 651
    Ingdigo Jump

    SG’s ban has been lifted! Paint your pets technicolor in celebration!

  152. 652
    Owlmirror

    Paint your pets technicolor in celebration!

    Should the leopard jaguar change his her spots?

    (or something like that)

  153. 653
    Owlmirror

    @Tis Himself:

    Owlmirror #29

    Spot the common theme!

    Whiny, prissy asshole.

    Your judgement of ॐ is biased by your dislike of him. He can be an asshole, as can we all; and he’s had emotional meltdowns in the past which I think were unjustified or overreactions, and there are positions he’s taken that, if he still holds them [and I understood the position correctly], I absolutely oppose.

    But for the most part, he strives to improve himself, and help others improve themselves, and this, at least, can be and should be encouraged.

    So reducing him to your perception of his worst moments is not warranted.

    /anti-fatalism

  154. 654
    A. R

    Prepare for an influx of thunderf00t supporters from TET.

  155. 655
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Right, A.R. Because both the regulars and the trolls are going to follow your wishes.

  156. 656
    A. R

    Janine: I’ll respond to you here so as not to dsitract from the conversation in TET:

    1. Do you really want trolls in the lounge? I was simply trying to prevent TET from turning into a troll playpen.
    2. Please note that my comment was a request/suggestion, not an order of any kind.

  157. 657
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    A. R, I responded to you in the other thread a while back.

    And it is still fucking silly.

  158. 658
    A. R

    Janine: Yeah, I saw that. And yes, probably not a great idea in retrospect, but I don’t like trolls in the lounge! :)

  159. 659
    John Morales

    Further to Owlmirror’s #153, I’ve noticed the increased degree of restraint ॐ has been exercising.

    (Such as now)

  160. 660
    strange gods before me ॐ

    Loebe released my comment from moderation! I thanked him.

    (If anyone’s wondering, at this point I’m keeping track of that thread here more to remind myself than to get anyone else’s attention. I realize it’s boring.)

    +++++

    SG, thanks for the explanation of greasemonkey and killfile, btw.

    No problem. Also I realized that in some cases, with long nyms, adding [hide comment] [kill], or whatever, might be causing comment headers to expand to three lines instead of the usual two, which would make the page longer at least if no one in the thread is killfiled.

    Unrelatedly, hey look! You’re allowed back in TET.

    Wheeeeeee

    SG’s ban has been lifted! Paint your pets technicolor in celebration!

    eeeeeeeee!

    and there are positions he’s taken that, if he still holds them [and I understood the position correctly]

    I do, and you probably do.

    Lookee though! I got my own spot on FSTDT! Fame and fortune and everything that goes with it.

  161. 661
    strange gods before me ॐ

    (Such as now)

    Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

  162. 662
    PZ Myers

    Interestingly, the thunderf00t supporters all seem to be wriggling in delight at the possibility of yelling at me on the youtube comment thread, so they don’t seem to be making the move over here. I’m not complaining.

  163. 663
    John Morales

    ॐ, heh, I particularly like “Unsuccessful troll, at that. He only got one reply.”

    (Ignorance is ignorant as the OM is eponymous)

  164. 664
    strange gods before me ॐ

    Hehe. My favorite was:

    > Let it again be entered into the record

    *clap clap clap*

    Few people say that before they say something stupid. Well done!

    I lol’d. Twice now, I think.

  165. 665
    PZ Myers

    Yet another TZT staggers out of the grave.

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