I’m sure the gay element here (I’ve heard rumors that there are a few of you) are happy with the news that Anderson Cooper has come out of the closet.
I’m here to detumesce you (not that your appreciation of the man was anything but intellectual). He’s also tossing god-bottery around.
In my opinion, the ability to love another person is one of God’s greatest gifts, and I thank God every day for enabling me to give and share love with the people in my life.
Sorry. But it’s still a brave bit of news. He wasn’t going to cuddle with you anyway.
There’s a gay element?
It’s potassium, isn’t it?
I bet it’s potassium.
Yes, purely intellectual. That’s it.
And? Other than taking a cheap shot at the guy, what does this have to do with his coming out? Are you unaware that there are many gay members of the different faiths? I guess I just don’t see how this is an issue.
Despite the godbotting, this is a very good thing. Having a prominent news personality openly saying he’s gay will hopefully help more people become comfortable with homosexuality and make life harder for the bigots out there.
Thought he was already out!
Cheap shot? In what way?
And his coming out isn’t an issue.
Have you read Pharyngula before?
Think maybe the godbotting is a bit of trollery? It WILL make some heads pop, and he damned well knew it.
Would you like to explain what you are on about, only you are making no sense.
One of the things that annoy the shit out of me lately are the incrediblly sad attempts by “liberal” Christians to whitewash centuries of hetrosexism. “Jesus never said anything condemning homosexuality!” is the retort often heard. True, but he also said that we were expected to follow the Law, and we all know what that has to say on the subject of homosexuality.
Somehow, I think JEEZ-us and Fred Phelps are closer in ideology than Cooper and Lefty believers would think.
Wes@4: Not just prominent, but prominent and reasonably well-respected by people across the political spectrum. (Despite his daytime talk show which is slowly morphing into the trash-TV that all daytime talk shows eventually resemble.)
It’s a lot easier to change people’s minds when you start from a place of respect. “Oh, that nice boy is gay? Maybe all gays aren’t bad, then” is easier to achieve than trying to eliminate bias and demonstrate that a person of [whatever minority category] is indeed a decent person.
This critique rests on several untrue propositions:
1) Calling out someone for expressing religious faith is a cheap shot. It’s not. This is an atheist blog, and we can out superstition and delusion when we see it.
2) Godbotting has a LOT to do with his coming out, because the VAST MAJORITY of godbots around the world would condemn Cooper to hell, or worse, because of his homosexuality.
3) The writer thinks we aren’t aware that gay people are also religious. This betrays an ignorance of atheism. It is a fact that atheists know more about religion than most believers, and are more than aware of the existence of religion amongst oppressive groups.
The statement makes complete sense IF you’re an ignoramus.
Speak for yourself shorty, I’m going to get cuddle time one way or another.
What the hell do his religious beliefs have to do with it anyway?
Freddy Mercury was probably gay, too.
For all of the fresh news…
Glen Davidson
God’s undeserved credit bill must be through the exosphere. Thanks Anderson for piling some more on.
I don’t get why he had to announce it. I thought everybody knew it already.
That cow left the barn a long time ago.
What’s next, water is wet?
I read Alice Cooper at first. Kind of weird, seeing as Alice Cooper has a family and all.
<snivel>
So if gay marriage ruins marriage, does a gay anchor-person ruin network television?
@ Aquaria
Because we live in a world where being gay – or trans, or whatever – is still being different, so, apparently, you still have to announce it to people. Let’s start announcing that we’re straight, and see if people get the point that it’s not ok to categorise people according to who they sleep with.
There is more to this story than one would imagine. Tom Cruise gets divorced last week. Anderson Cooper comes out this week. If Anderson and his BF break up, I’m seeing a Cruise-Cooper marriage in the future. My head is just spinning, but that could just be the Southern Comfort I had for breakfast.
@ billydee
I know you’re just kidding, but this:
This I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy. Why would anyone want anywhere near that black hole of Scientology and sheer terrorizing lunacy that is Cruise is beyond me. I hope Katie gets sole custody of Suri…there may still be hope for the child to get away from Scientology.
Not personally attracted to silver foxes. I’m a bear man myself and if I was going to snuggle I’d do it with my wonder woman snuggie.
marcus ranum @ #18
Ruin network television? That sounds like “making water wet”
Duvel the Hobbit:
GLBT people don’t have families. Noted.
You guys (P-zed included) amuse me. First of all, you’re a bunch of die hard smart alecks (P-zed included). Second of all, you’re all bright and sharp as tacks (P-zed included, trolls and godbots excluded). I sit here using a handle that’s so bland you could feed it to a baby with indigestion and all around me I see these clever handles I couldn’t have dreamt up in a gazillion years.
Still, in this case, everybody’s missing the point. It’s not that AC is godding a little (remember, his god just might be gay as pink ink) or that this is a big surprise to much of anybody. It’s that yet another high profile public figure has COME OUT. Every time this happens, the anti-gay hate movement crumbles a little more as the US lurches ever so slowly around the corner into full equality.
Interesting wiki-fact about Anderson Cooper: he has two half-brothers whose father was the great conductor Leopold Stokowski.
I’m sure the Catholics will be much better for her.
At least they’ll just try take away her rights and probably not rape her.
Wes@ #4
Well said.
I’m glad he came out, but disappointed about the God comments. Just this very morning I’d left this comment on Natalie Reed’s amazing God Does Not Love Trans People post:
You love people because you’re human. Giving the credit over to an imaginary being is just giving further power to those who will use that very same imaginary being to oppress you.
@ Sili
Good point, but I do believe it’s easier to escape Catholicism than Scientology, and you have better chances to come out relatively unscathed from the former than the latter.
Not that it wouldn’t be better without any religion …but baby steps…
@Marcus Ranum #18
“So if gay marriage ruins marriage, does a gay anchor-person ruin network television?”
…
Rachel Maddow has only improved MSNBC. Seriously. I can’t remember many other news personalities that ever held a pro-choice position so openly, and let it inform their news commentary.
I <3 Rachel Maddow.
I also <3 Anderson Cooper's silver foxiness, but he was never going to cuddle with me anyway.
Why is stuff like this news? I don’t get it.
“So if gay marriage ruins marriage, does a gay anchor-person ruin network television?”
That horse has sailed many moons ago…
Jeena,
“Why is stuff like this news? I don’t get it.”
Yeah…
Why would having an unknown, not widely
respected individual come out as gay be significant in a society where
homosexuality is a non issue, because there is no
bullying, harassment or persecution or inequality at all, and no significant prejudices are harbored by large parts of the population. Right…
Maybe it’s not big news that he’s gay, maybe the big news is that he publicly stated it.
It’s one thing to be gay, it’s an entire other thing to come out and stand proudly by your brothers and sisters.
Don’t we have an out campaign of our own? Don’t we encourage people to come out as Atheists? If “coming out” is no big deal, why do we encourage our own to do so (often at their peril).
Anderson said it himself, that he wants to be counted. The powers that conspire to deny gay rights cringe when another “all American” person comes out as gay, it denies them the claim that all homosexuals are subversive deviants (the line sold in churches for eons).
So yeah, it’s kind of a big deal that Anderson Cooper came out. Good for him, and good for other gay people out there looking for a positive role model.
I haven’t been this shocked by someone coming out of the closet since Rosie O’Donnell.
duvel the hobbit,
As the biological father of a kid with two mums (and another kid on the way): fuck you.
BTW: I absolutely <3 Rachel Maddow, I put her as one of "the people who inspire me" on my FB.
This is lovingly called the Ellen DeGeneres effect in gay political circles.
For those who are wondering “what the big deal is” read the fucking article that PZ linked to, in full. He states it quite well himself.
FTFA:
I suppose.
I look upon “pastors” who call “for the death of gay people” to be little more than fossil dead-enters, symbolic of a decayed era, gratefully forgotten.
The fact that people listen to these trolls is more shocking to me.
In either case, I don’t see it as much of an event, because I could care less. When/if people around me are racist/sexist/bigoted, I’d like to think I’d call them on their shit.
If my son comes out, then I doubt I’d bat an eye. I think i’d be pissed if he wanted to marry some fundi and convert, but I would never let it show out of respect for him.
Usernames are stupid:
You might not think it matters to you, but it matters to a lot of closeted young people, because it shows them that they aren’t alone. It matters to their families, because they’re already familiar with the idea that LGBTQ people are not threatening, thanks to out public figures. It’ll make it less foreign, less scary, when their children do come out.
Coming out is one of the singlemost powerful things we can do in order to change minds.
“Gay brothers and sisters,… You must come out. Come out… to your parents… I know that it is hard and will hurt them but think about how they will hurt you in the voting booth! Come out to your relatives… come out to your friends… if indeed they are your friends. Come out to your neighbors… to your fellow workers… to the people who work where you eat and shop… come out only to the people you know, and who know you. Not to anyone else. But once and for all, break down the myths, destroy the lies and distortions. For your sake. For their sake. For the sake of the youngsters who are becoming scared by the votes from Dade to Eugene.” – Harvey Milk
Usernames are stupid:
You COULD care less? Really? How much less can you care?
Anyway, jabbing at grammar aside:
A prominent gay drag queen was recently put into ICU, along with his partner, because they were beaten as they were leaving a gay establishment. This wasn’t even in the sticks. This was in Tempe, AZ — the mayor is gay.
But shit like this STILL happens.
Stop putting your head in the sand. And stop telling people “Oh, well, I don’t see the big deal! Golly. I mean, there’s still a problem?”
It’s condescending and trivializes all the work that has been done, and still remains to be done.
For fuck’s sake, Don’t Ask Don’t Tell was repealed less than a year ago (after a LOT of work), and the Defense of Marriage Act still exists. Come on.
@Caerie, Thank you for that Harvey Milk quote. I really wish he was still here to witness all the amazing changes. Man, he’d be so proud of Anderson Cooper.
marilove:
And the names we read every Transgender Day of Remembrance are not martyrs from a generation ago. They are the dead from the past year. Trans women of color are especially in danger, but many people who are LGBTQ or perceived to be are still being actively oppressed and endangered all across the world. Every person brave enough to be publicly out is helping, by putting faces to it and forcing the bigots to see us as human.
“I haven’t been this shocked by someone coming out of the closet since Rosie O’Donnell.”
Ha! Good one, Scott Simmons! I thought the same about David Hyde Pierce.
In other news: Anderson Cooper admits that he is human. Can’tservetives are shocked! Film at 11.
@Caerie: I have nothing to add except to say: Wonderfully put.
Caerie,
that is not in evidence. Well, I suppose it does happen, but I don’t know that I’ve seen it to happen. It’s not bigots who are forced to see us as human, I think, but maybe it is those who ‘could care less’ and those others who wonder why ‘stuff like this is news’.
Oh, I’m sure they do, in some abstract way, care and they probably don’t even see us as different, they’re sexuality-blind or whatever analog for post-racism exists in their privilege-blind world where everyone just is who they are and it doesn’t matter.
Yeah, this perhaps forces them to see otherwise; when the words of a prominent gay man are there, written, it’s undeniable, and I expect terribly surprising, that their precious world, where everything is great for everyone or at least as great as they have it, is not real and it never was about them and how they’re really good people, but about how others are treated by society at large and by bigots in particular.
Or maybe they just double down too, just like the bigots. At least there’s evidence of that, the really good people who really aren’t helping. And yet it remains important that Anderson Cooper spoke up and came out. Important and only to a very certain kind of person who Anderson Cooper has been denying all these years. I think this helps them.
I am sorry to be something of a cynic, but I can’t see this as being about changing the minds of bigots, fence sitters or those who think they’re allies. This isn’t about helping them and they’re not the ones who’ll make society better, it’s always been the oppressed who do that. I’m certain that Anderson Coopers has a close support network of people who already love and respect him. He’s empowering others (need I say others like him) to make that for themselves, of their families and friends. That’s how his coming out changes minds, not by being appealing to bigots, fence sitters or those who think they’re allies.
gregoryhilliard:
Because gay people all look gay. AMIRITE?
I liked David Kurtz’s take on it the best: “It’s a sign of the changing times that Anderson Cooper may get more grief for not coming out of the closet sooner than for being gay.”
As someone who identifies as queer? Sometimes, yeah, gay people look gay. Not all, though. But, Anderson Cooper being gay was an open secret, really.
I know of two people who had no idea, though, including my twin sister.
BTW, there is nothing wrong with “appearing gay”. Many gay people embrace it, in fact, which needs to be remembered.
Woooosh!
Say it aloud. That’s my point flying right over your head.
I’m so identifiable as a homo that most people know it just to look at me. I’m well aware that people appear gay and I know it better than most. I spent almost all of my formative years being bullied over just that fact. You are preaching to the choir.
Word. I re-read the exchange and I agree with you.
I took some pain medication for back pain and I’m slow on the up-take tonight, clearly. Apologies, Thomathy.
What I mean, since it’s obviously not clear, it that it’s not funny that some people are obviously gay and it’s a problem to me if it is. I wish it didn’t matter that some people are obviously not cis-gendered heterosexuals, though I wouldn’t ever wish for a world where everyone appeared so, but until it stops mattering that people are, I’m not going to let people, devoid of context, make fun of the fact, dammit!
Marilove, oh gosh. It’s not personal, merilove. Thank you. And that ‘dammit’, that’s effect, it’s not for you. Sincerest hope that your back feels better.
Yes. One hundred times yes.
No need to explain yourself, seriously, I completely understand where you were coming from.
And thank you! I am feeling much, much better. I think I pulled something, as I normally do not get back pain. Then I remembered I had some oxy stashed away. Man, that shit works!
Yeah, it does that! Not without consequences, like so many other good things.
Thomathy, Holy Trinity of Conflation: Atheist-Secularist-Darwinist:
I don’t have the time to dig up a bunch of cites on this, but there have been several inquires into what pushes acceptance and coming out has an effect. I’m not sure if studies have been done regarding enhanced acceptance and out public figures, but I don’t see why it wouldn’t have a similar effect.
Obviously, a couple of studies can’t be said to prove anything and even if they find a general trend that doesn’t mean there won’t be people who defy it, but I do think there’s decent evidence for increased familiarity reducing bigotry and fear.
Does this come as a surprise to anyone?
Familiarity …of those intimate with the out person. I don’t know the studies you’re talking of, but perhaps respected public figures do matter enough to otherwise remote parties. My thought is that I think he’s empowering other LGBTQ people and not reducing bigotry and fear directly or at large. Perhaps it’s a bit of both. I wonder what the larger effect is.
@seculartranshumanist
You are so late to the party. Please read the comments that have already been posted. There aren’t even that many!
It’s all about who’s actually surprised.
For anyone who even bothers to read before posting, this question has been asked before and it’s irrelevant and stupid, whether sarcastic or not and it’s been given more due consideration in answers than it’s even worth. Stop asking it. It’s not clever.
Marilove, you’re back on the ball.
@Thomathy, Holy Trinity of Conflation: Atheist-Secularist-Darwinist
Do you remember how things were when Ellen DeGeneres came out? I think we could learn a lot by just examining her career from that moment on. I firmly believe that her coming out when she did had a HUGE impact. Look at her now!
Clearly Anderson Cooper’s coming out isn’t going to have quite the dramatic impact, of course, but I still think it has an impact.
Actually, you’re right about Ellen DeGeneres. She practically paved the road for queer culture getting prime time spots in the late 90’s and early 00’s …though she payed dearly for what she did back in ’96. It was ten years before she was well-loved by America, no? Sort of an echo effect, maybe.
Anyhow, that’s a great example and I don’t know why I didn’t think about it. I was actually familiarising myself with it days ago for some reason I can’t recall.
I guess I’ll have to consider the effect more.
Also, what about Neil Patrick Harris? Dude is completely out and still playing a womanizer on HIMYM while *also* singing and dancing in theater and hosting the Golden Globes. That has to have a positive effect!
Does NPH really have that wide an appeal? I always thought he was more niche. Also, I’m going to chalk that one up to the ‘Ellen effect’ too. I think she gets a lot less credit than she’s due.
How I Met Your Mother is REALLY popular. Also, the Harold and Kumar movies. He has huge appeal among dudebros, actually. Weirdly. That is not a negative thing, imo.
Dudebros, huh? I wonder …
Anyhow, it’s bedtime. If you’re keeping on, mind the trash. I’ll get the left overs tomorrow.
Have you ever SEEN the Harold and Kumar movies? LOL :)
Sleep well! I’ll be up for quite some time. It’s not even 7pm here, yet. :)
No, that’s not it. As someone else already said (beat me to it) RTFA.
Re: Neil P.H. and “Harold and Kumar”. The guy was pretending to be gay in order to molest women. Dudebros all right.
Seeee? I told you!
Man that movie is both terrible and amazing. I can’t help it. I like stupid fucking movies.
I didn’t dislike it either, but that scene was cringe worthy. I enjoyed his appearance on the first one because of the context of where his career was at that moment (which always plays a part in those movies). It was hilarious. “Hey, that’s Doogie Howser, where the fuck has he been?”
The second one was the worst one, anyway. The Christmas (3rd) one, though, was HYSTERICAL.
I can’t wait to see TED, either, and Bad Santa is one of my all-time favorite movies. “Fuck me, Santa! Fuck me, Santa! Fuck me, Santa!”
*dies*
Argh, my bad. You’re right: I borked that one good.
I said no such thing. I do, however, see it as no big deal, like the fact that black people hold political offices, or latinos own businesses or women play full-contact sports. I also am not ‘putting [my] head in the sand’. Bigotry against QUILTBAGs* is just as repugnant as racism and sexism.
I could not care less about Anderson, because a) I don’t know him and b) his sexual preference does not make a difference to me. Others obviously have a different opinion.
I do not presume to speak for anyone else.
You said ‘one of…’, so what would you say would be another, comparable act besides coming out?
*Questioning, Undecided, Intersex, Lesbian, Trans, Bisexual, Asexual, Gay
Well, Usernames are stupid, aren’t you so incredibly privileged and condescending about it!
If you don’t care — if it effects you so little — then why are you posting about it here? Why are you insisting it means so little to you?
Great, awesome. It doesn’t mean jack shit to you.
But maybe it means a lot to some kid sitting alone in his room, afraid to come out to his very religious parents. Maybe it means something to ME, a fairly out bisexual woman who still has to deal with homophobic crap from people she grew up with.
You seem very, very insistent on reassuring us about how little it means to you. Why?
And let me guess: You’re straight, probably white, probably male.
No wonder it doesn’t effect you! And how fucking great that you have to be so condescending about it.
Haha! “The fact is…” So even when revealing personal, private information, he still tells it in terms of “the facts.” That’s why we love him.
Usernames are stupid,
I wouldn’t know Anderson Cooper from a bar of soap if he was standing in front of me, since I haven’t really heard of him until now. Although I too really couldn’t care less about Anderson Cooper’s personal sex life, I can appreciate that one more respected person making the point that people are people regardless of sexual orientation the better it is, especially for those who are made to feel shame for simply being who they are. I believe that the more diversity that is seen within “mainstream” society, the better off everybody is, and so I’m pleased to hear this news.
It’s only about Anderson Cooper on the very surface. It’s about building empathy.
It is not about public figures but you might be interested in this article if you haven’t seen it already:
Violating Social Norms when Choosing Friends: How Rule-Breakers Affect Social Networks
Hattip to Skepchick Heina who mentioned it in her article on Brave.
One day, maybe in my lifetime, certainly in my son’s lifetime, this sort of thing really will get the reaction it should: “so fucking what?”. Until then, this is exactly the sort of act that helps us get one more tiny step towards that day.
So what, its none of our business whom Mr. Anderson is attracted to. End of story.
Larrylyons, Mr. Cooper seems to think it is, in fact, our business. He says as much. Go read his fucking letter and then read the goddamned comments and next time read and think before you post inanities. Your concern has been noted and it has been addressed already.
But that’s not the story.
The story is Mr. Cooper deciding to tell the world about it. The story is the fact that in the current societal context, such declarations need to be made, and are newsworthy.
Also, it is none of your business what my business should be. Do not presume to use the collective “our”.
larrylyons
3 July 2012 at 9:17 am
Let me guess: You’ve neither the linked article in PZ’s post, nor any of the comments. STFU, seriously.
I accidentally a word and that word is “read”.
Way to hedge. You’re probably wrong, though.
It doesn’t affect me, either.<g>
You say you see me as being condescending. Perhaps I am a mirror.
I am sincereley sorry that you’ve had to deal with crap and bigotry. I don’t know what it was like for you; obviously our experiences are different. The crap and bigotry I’ve had to deal with (I assume) you have no experience with.
Thank you.
Oh fuck off, seriously.
I didn’t even realize that he wasn’t already out.
Another one says he’s “proud” to be gay. Now don’t get me wrong, I can well understand why someone would be open about being gay. Hey, it would be worth it just to wind up all the bigoted Christian assholes! But I can’t really imagine being *proud* of my sexual orientation, any more than I can imagine being proud of being right-handed or having a mole on my left buttock. It’s completely incidental, is it not? Perhaps someone can explain this to me.
Nobody tries to shame you for being right-handed or having a mole on your left buttock.
If the culture was such that people were shamed for being such it would be appropriate to declare that you are proud of being right handed (or left buttock moled) as a way of saying that there is no shame in being right handed.