Comments

  1. julian says

    Caine, I hope you don’t mind, but I’ve been taking my mind off the latest round of skeptic bs by perusing the winter pics in your gallery.

    I know nothing about photography so can’t really say anything but that they’re really good. The photograph of the curled up leaf covered in frost is oddly relaxing.

  2. says

    I’m personally grateful for the latest round of skeptic bs. Very rarely do I get such accurate reports of the culture of a con before I decide whether or not to dish out coin for it. More cons should use this method of actively labeling themselves as assholes.

  3. says

    Here’s my FAVORITE one from “Infinite Seepage”

    I don’t like the term ‘feminazi’ because I don’t like anything associated with Limbaugh, but Paula’s right. Except I’d compare it more to Communism under Mao, with the cadres enforcing correct thought and the ‘reeducation’ of those deemed impure. It’s undeniable that FTB has a party line, and far from encouraging free and calm discussion between different views, those who are deemed toxic are hounded out of the community and banned. Which for the record makes the complaints by Ophelia that Paula banned her quite amusing.

    We need another term for modern academic feminism. Jack Chicks, perhaps? Anyone?

    Yes those damn feminists are too censoring and shut down dialogue! Now help me think up a term to shame them into silence!

  4. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Gen
    I have no idea if this would be suitable for your situation but I can make a suggestion for a way to make someone feel like they’ve really, truly been heard.

    If she becomes comfortable enough to relate what’s going on in any detail stop her early in the story and ask if it’s okay to take a few notes. Point out that this is for your benefit, that you want to make sure that you get it right and that no one but you will ever see them. I often put in a self-deprecating joke about being unable to keep the days of the week straight without looking at a calendar. Obviously, if she baulks drop it.

    If she agrees, make notes. Just highlights to keep it straight, stay focused on her. When she’s done ask if you can go over it with her, again emphasising that this is for you because you don’t want to get it wrong. That emphasis is important because it keeps this from seeming like an interrogation where you’re questioning her story.

    Then repeat it back in your own words. Stop repeatedly to ask if you’ve got it right, giving her opportunity to correct nuance and details. And that’s it really. It’s the repeating it back that’s the key to making someone feel like they’ve been truly heard. If it seemed like she had any tiny discomfort at there being a written record I’d make a big show out of destroying your notes.

    Disclaimer: I learned this trick in a management seminar. I’ve used it many times in situations where customers were complaining about one thing or another. In the vast majority of those situations it was all I had to do. Feeling that their concern had been truly heard satisfy them enough that no further action on my part was needed. Which was good for me because by the time things got to this stage it was usually because there was no way I could satisfy them. What they wanted was unreasonable or outside of my authority to give and so on.

    And again because giving this kind of advice makes me nervous: I’m no expert on abuse counseling. I have no idea if this is appropriate in your situation.

  5. thunk, impressionable yoot says

    There, i’m on vacation!

    (i.e. slowly heading toward Convergence)

  6. dysomniak says

    Jamie Killstein is fucking amazing. If you aren’t all listening to Citizen Radio already you should be. wearecitizenradio.com

  7. mattee says

    I love this rant.

    I notice that the crowd cheers when he calls out skeevy sexist behaviour at conferences. Seems like our take on feminism in the free thought community is a bit more widespread than thunderfoot et al would like to think.

  8. Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan says

    Am not looking forward to Monday. I can’t even wait for the fall to come with some hope of change – kindergarten enrollment is up to 38 students, and I think there will be much resistance to me leaving. I almost want to offer my best friend (currently jobless now that she’d graduated with her masters degree) up as a replacement, except, well, since when did cronyism pass when it’s from an employee?
    ———————————————–

    Had to drop the cryptography class. It was too much. Interesting, but too much in terms of what I had to keep up with and subject matter. My two other free classes are quite interesting, so that makes up for it.
    ———————————————–

    Footwear advice needed. When buying sandals, and you are an in-between size (5 and a half, 6 and a half, etc.), is it better to go up half a size or down?

    Side note: My new running shoes feel so deliciously light on my feet. I still get plenty of support, which I need. I look forward to my first run with the new sneaks (no special inserts, I want to see how they feel without first).
    ———————————————–

    Ing: Clearly the person who wrote that article either doesn’t know about open relationships or subscribes to the idea that such don’t count.
    ———————————————–

    “Only on men is gray hair dignified. On women it just looks . . . old.”

    Heard at dinner earlier. Like I needed a reason to be in a mood for the rest of the night.

  9. says

    mattee:

    I notice that the crowd cheers when he calls out skeevy sexist behaviour at conferences. Seems like our take on feminism in the free thought community is a bit more widespread than thunderfoot et al would like to think.

    I’ve hoped as much. While there are a lot of people who aren’t very educated or aware of all the nuances of sexism, I think the vast majority in the free thought community recognize that sexism is bad and don’t want to associate with it. I think a combination of some people needing to be coached to grasp all of the facets of it even when they are vaguely aware that a problem exists and the fact that assholes tend to bluster the loudest tends to exaggerate the size of the “hurr durr feminazis want to keep us from getting laid” crowd.

    We’ve just got to keep making our voices heard, so people can recognize the problems and realize the douches aren’t the only ones around.

  10. dysomniak, darwinian socialist says

    @matee That crowd reaction was great. I was a little dissapointed by the tepid response to his anti war bit though. Apparently a lot of people still share TF’s sentiments about teh mooslems.

  11. Wren, a Tru Hoppist says

    Hi, random question: I remember a conference last year or in 2010 where there was a panel on how to make women feel more at home in atheism. I was telling my husband about it, but I wanted to find a video of the panel. I only remember that is was 4 men and 1 woman, that the men only ever used the word “female” to refer to women, and when a woman asked why they only said “female” the panel laughed at her and someone said (I think) “What should we call them, the weaker sex.”

    My google-fu is crap. I can’t find it. Can someone narrow down the conference at least? I’ll do my best to find it from there.

  12. Patricia, OM says

    Jamie Kilstein is right on. That’s a rant I’ve wanted to hear for years!

  13. says

    K, tonight is stressing my faith in humanity. Sometimes I try to cheer myself up with videos of baby bunnies or ducks. Every youtube video of baby ducks has downvotes. How the fuck do you “dislike” baby ducks?

  14. Pteryxx says

    It’s not my faith in humanity so much as my poison tolerance. I’m a lot better at honest argument than this flood of lying spinning bullshittery. They’re spamming Ophelia and there’s not a damn thing I can do about it.

    Fortunately Minecraft lets you breed baby chickens. I’ve been watching the oddly cuboid chicks run about half the night.

  15. says

    Ing

    Ugh. Feel like lazy energyless shit. Not sure if it’s from allergies, cold, heat or magic pixies or some combination thereof…has ensured that everyone in the house accomplishes jack and all today though.

    It’s probably the heat wave making you feel that way.

  16. Pteryxx says

    thunk: I always make a window now, or several windows, where I can watch my farms from a safe vantage point all night.

    Minecraft has an excellent wiki; I’ve been looking up a few things at a time so it’s not overwhelming (and doesn’t feel so much like cheating). Want to know the tricks to breeding chickens?

    (rot13’d)

    Jurng. Vs lbh pbyyrpg gjb bs gur fnzr navzny naq srrq bar jurng gb rnpu bs gurz, gurl znxr n onol. Lbh pna nyfb trg onol puvpxraf sebz oernxvat rttf, ohg vg gnxrf n qbmra rttf be fb gb nirentr bar puvpx. Pbyyrpg navznyf ol yrnqvat gurz jvgu n furns bs jurng va unaq.

  17. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Bright spot maybe?

    The geese mommies and their goslings are doing quite well here in Vermont. My friend L lives in a house in the country so when I drive out there I get to pass beaver ponds, postcard-perfect meadows full of sheep and cows, and sundry watering holes for wildlife. Since early spring I’ve watched several families of geese rearing the fuzzy little goslings from furball age to “I can paddle around too mom. . .all the way to the beaver-dam-in-progress!”

    Those geese mamas are SRS BZNESS. You do not fuck with them. Get near their babbies and they will berserker on your ass.

  18. weakswimmer says

    Skeptifem: Good question. That doesn’t compute. People are weird. No news there. I hope humanity can find a way to keep your faith in it.

    Here is a video of Maru the kitty, and here is a video of Happy the puppy. Hope they help with the cheering up.

  19. Pteryxx says

    I admit I’m holding out hopes for lots of pics of Esme’s pups. Even squirming pink translucent rats are awesome cute to me.

  20. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Sounds like Josh has been recently chased by a fowl horde.

    HA! I so wish:) Several years ago I did get stampeded by a herd of sheep that got loose from the house nearest L’s and came crashing through the yard and over my feet as they “baaaaaa-ed” for Freedom. Haven’t yet been personally chastised by the goose mamas. They’re fuckin’ crazy.

  21. thunk, impressionable yoot says

    Ah, ptxx.

    Unlike other people I know, I don’t care about spoilers. Knowing about something beforehand doesn’t ruin the enjoyment for me.

  22. Oenotria says

    Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan

    As far as sandals go, my mother always advised me to round up. She said having a sandal slightly larger than necessary provided protection from stubbed toes. Seems like a good reason as any.

    When I was a kid, we had dogs, cats, ducks, and horses. One time the horse blundered into the area where the ducklings were. The hen flew up on her back and attacked her. It was a sight to see, watching the horse flee from a duck attack.

  23. Patricia, OM says

    Confess Josh, those weren’t just any sheep, those were some of Smoggy’s wives. You ‘baaaaah’d’ boy!

  24. says

    An addendum to the rant I posted on the last incarnation TET: Assorted white liberal cupcakes and white identifying POC cupcakes who believes you can solve racism by ignoring race completely and then calls people racist for considering the issue of race can kindly put salt on their wounds after fucking a decaying porcupine.

  25. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Wren @14

    The best I could do was a guest post on Blaghag by Lyz Liddell and Sharon Moss.

    There’s a video of the panel but they’ve dubbed over the sound*. Sorry, I couldn’t find one with the audio intact but maybe you’ll have more luck given more info.

    *Fuck I hate that kind of cowardly bullshit.

  26. hotshoe says

    As far as sandals go, my mother always advised me to round up. She said having a sandal slightly larger than necessary provided protection from stubbed toes. Seems like a good reason as any.

    Funny, I was just going to say the opposite.

    I round down myself because I don’t want to have the “extra” part of the sandal sticking out past my toes where I can catch it on something. I really can’t afford a bad fall. I don’t care too much if I stub a toe sticking out, or even break one. I’ve broken toes a couple different times without much harm. But when I twisted my foot in a hard fall, I broke one tiny bone in my ankle and it took months before I could walk without pain.

    It’s okay now, thank Juno.

    I think it would be different if you have diabetes. If circulation problems make healing wounds slow, then you would need to avoid stubbed toes at least as much as need to avoid catching and falling.

  27. says

    What with all the sammich making going on lately, I think I win…or lose. I made Esme a sammich. Yep, an Esme sized one, roast beef, aged cheddar and red lettuce on wheat with mayo and stone ground mustard. She’s devouring it as I type. Expectant mums eat a *lot*. Well, mine does.

    Gad, I hope she pops tomorrow, she’s driving me crazy.

  28. says

    Gyeong, hello Darlin’! ♥

    Caine is here!

    Only until I can get some bloody sleep. This whole pregnancy/babes will be here anytime business is for the birds. Bah. (Sorry, Audley.)

  29. A. R says

    Caine: I’m not sure how that fits into the MRA-approved scheme, but you might be a species traitor, or you may be guilty of sammich making dereliction of duty, since you didn’t make the sammich for a straight white male… I’ll go check with Thunderfap, he seems to be wise to the ways of the MRA.

  30. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    This whole pregnancy/babes will be here anytime business is for the birds. Bah. (Sorry, Audley.)

    Heh, I’m pretty sure birds have it easier if our chooks are any indication. Mrs. Fishy and I got married two weeks before her due date. The bub was told firmly in-utero that she was not invited to *this* party.

  31. Lonely Panda, e.s.l. says

    Wren @14

    The best I could do was a guest post on Blaghag by Lyz Liddell and Sharon Moss.

    There’s a video of the panel but they’ve dubbed over the sound*. Sorry, I couldn’t find one with the audio intact but maybe you’ll have more luck given more info.

    Here’s an alternate video.
    There seems to be a glitch about 3 minutes from the end that causes loss of audio after that point, but the question/response that Wren asked about comes before that (around the 8 minute mark).

  32. Esteleth, Raging Dyke of Fuck Mountain says

    I just watched that video, and all I can say is “WTF?”

  33. says

    @Josh #24

    Those geese mamas are SRS BZNESS. You do not fuck with them. Get near their babbies and they will berserker on your ass.

    A goose set up a nest in the little greenspace area next to the door to my roommates workplace. Thy had to close off that door with caution tape and make everyone use the other one until the chicks were gone, because she’d try to kill anyone who came out.

  34. Patricia, OM says

    I’m headed to the Shaniko Wool Gathering in the morning. It’s held in an Oregon ghost town that was once one of the greatest wool producing areas of the USA. It’s a pre-birthday treat for me.

    Ya’ll remember my birthday is July fourth? This one is going to be sort of sucky. We usually celebrate my birthday here with trebuchet hurlings, free 10 minute old grog, swill and spankings all around, but this year I turn 58… and according to the VA I will no longer be “desirable”. *sniff*

  35. says

    Patricia, anyone who didn’t find you desirable needs their head examined. Happy Birthday a little early! I hope it’s wonderful and that you and Naughty Marvin have a fine time celebrating.

  36. Patricia, OM says

    Caine – Thanks! Naughty Marvin & I plan to do the Wool Gathering and then BBQ and fireworks with the nieces over in Washington state where you can blow up stuff way more fun than in Oregon.

    le sigh It is rough to be designated as no longer desirable by a governmental organization as huge as the VA. :( I wonder if they also designate male veterans as no longer ‘desirable’ once they turn 58? And where the hell did that number come from?

    Sheesh. I need a drink of IlludiumQ-36.

  37. reasonable fellow says

    That was an awesome rant. I’m stealing the line about the legislative campaign of slow-suicide-bombing our planet.

  38. says

    Good morning!
    So, I’m going to start with a positive personal update.
    I’m feeling better, generally speaking.
    I haven’t been sick in 6 weeks (I know, that doesn’t sound much, but if you were sick for 4 solid months, that’s really something), I have more energy and just feel better. I even managed to look into the mirror and like the person I saw.

    Caine
    Wait, Esme’s spawning? I completely missed that, yay for Esme-pups!

    cm

    Kids #1 and #2 have similarly-silly nicknames.

    #1 got stuck with “Mausebär” (mouse-bear), which was her “production title” before we knew what she was and how to call her.
    The little one got hers from her sister, who looked at her one day after she’d eaten carrots (and put on a carrot facial mask) and exclaimed “You look exactly like a Honigdackel! (honey-dachshound)” Nobody knows exactly what a Honigdckel is, except that they look like her baby sister after eating mashed carrots :).

    Audley
    100$?
    Bless my heart!
    I was thinking about gifts in the range I made and received, like some onesies, a pyjama or two, shirt and trousers, stuff like that. Which can be very handy for a second child, too, especially if they’re born in different seasons.
    And I’m always kind of sorry for the not-firstborns who’re often a bit “neglected” in the gifts area on accounts of getting hand-me-downs.
    BTW, mind to send me your adress? giliell ÄT yahoo DOT de

  39. Wren, a Tru Hoppist says

    FossilFishy @35,
    Thank you! That was exactly what I wanted! It is a shame they dubbed over the sound.

    Thanks again!

  40. Rey Fox says

    Expectant mums eat a *lot*. Well, mine does.

    She’s eating for 23, you know.

  41. Gen, Uppity Ingrate. says

    Part-Time Insomniac,, Agreed with Oenotria. Round up – even the “right” sized sandals (on me) tend to end in parts of my foot hanging off/out.

    Skeptifem Hating baby ducks? That’s just… depressing. What is wrong with the internet!?

    Giliell I am really happy to hear you are feeling better. That is excellent.

    Caine! Hai! Good to see ya.

    FossilFishy Thanks for the detailed reply. I’ll definitely be following up on that.

    Caerie and mattee

    I notice that the crowd cheers when he calls out skeevy sexist behaviour at conferences. Seems like our take on feminism in the free thought community is a bit more widespread than thunderfoot et al would like to think.

    At this moment, although it doesn’t feel like it, I’m still hoping this must be true. Even if it isn’t, I completely agree with Caerie that:

    We’ve just got to keep making our voices heard, so people can recognize the problems and realize the douches aren’t the only ones around.

    It really is the only rational position and eventually people will see that.

  42. says

    Rey:

    She’s eating for 23, you know.

    Fuck you, Dear. I sez that with love. Really. There’s some love somewhere inside me, I’m sure…it’s just seriously short tempered right now. ;D

  43. Tony... therefore God says

    Giliell:
    Glad to hear you’re feeling better. Would you like a sammich?

    ~~

    Caine:
    Rey was just kidding.
    She’s only eating for 17.
    Oh, and just imagine what happens when her litter (?) is old enough to mate. Think of all the fun and excitement you’d have then! :)

  44. Pteryxx says

    Oh, and just imagine what happens when her litter (?) is old enough to mate. Think of all the fun and excitement you’d have then! :)

    Yikes, good point – however many boys and girls need to be separated en masse ASAW. (as soon as weaned) Otherwise y’all could be in for round 2 of Surprise Pups – times one-half of up to 21!

    *flees tidal wave of cuteness*

  45. says

    Tony:

    Oh, and just imagine what happens when her litter (?) is old enough to mate.

    I’m afraid they won’t have the opportunity. Well, at least no opportunity of fertile hook-ups.

  46. says

    Pteryxx:

    Yikes, good point

    It’s all been thought of before hand. Esme will be separated from the ratlets at 5 weeks, then go in to be spayed. The ratlets will also be separated, if necessary at that time, girls in the top half of the condo, boys in the lower half. Girls will be kept, so they’ll be going in for spay asap. The boys, whether kept or not, will be kept intact. There’s a reason for that, too – spaying actually adds to a females lifespan, preventing tumors and such, while neutering males tends to shorten their lifespan – they get fat and lazy.

    Right now, however, Esme is busy beating the crap out of the boys and trying to shred my studio piece by piece. She had better pop damn soon.

  47. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Wren
    No worries, but I must bow to the google-sensi Lonely Panda @42. Xe found a version with the sound intact.

  48. says

    Caine:

    Yep, an Esme sized one, roast beef, aged cheddar and red lettuce on wheat with mayo and stone ground mustard. She’s devouring it as I type.

    You know what I could go for? A roast beef and cheddar sammich on wheat.

    *looks at trail mix*
    *sighs*

    Why aren’t any laydeez bringin’ me sammiches?

    Expectant mums eat a *lot*. Well, mine does.

    It’s hard enough when you’re just incubating one in there– I can’t imagine four plus. :-/

    Good morning everyone! I’m enjoying this beautiful Sunday morning out in the courtyard. :)

  49. says

    Caine:

    There’s a reason for that, too – spaying actually adds to a females lifespan, preventing tumors and such, while neutering males tends to shorten their lifespan – they get fat and lazy.

    I adore rats, but hadn’t been aware of this bit of information. If I ever get any for pets, I’ll remember that. Awesome.

  50. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Good morning everyone! I’m enjoying this beautiful Sunday morning out in the courtyard. :)

    And I’m huddled in our lounge room in front of the electric fire, dreading going to bed in the unheated part of the house. Bloody Aussies, pretending that the whole country is like Queensland. It’s going to get down to freezing tonight and this place has no insulation. Grumble, grumble, grumble….

  51. Sophia, Michelin-starred General of the First Mediterranean Iron Chef Batallion says

    FossilFishy – I feel your pain. Freezing my arse off here. A 30+ year old heater is the only thing keeping my fingers from falling off.

  52. says

    I adore rats, but hadn’t been aware of this bit of information. If I ever get any for pets, I’ll remember that. Awesome.

    if they are anything like mice… you won’t want a male one (or group). They smell horrible and kill each other.

  53. Pteryxx says

    skeptifem: nah, male rats aren’t like male mice that way. They don’t reek of RODENT MANLINESS and in my experience, rarely fight beyond butt-sumo matches for bossiness. (Male mice generally get along fine with each other IF they’re raised from weaning together and kept far far away from any whiff of females in heat. Still need to change the pee-soaked corners often.)

    Caine: sorry for ratsplaining, it’s kind of general information reflex. I know you know what you’re doing better than I would.

  54. says

    Skeptifem, ahhh, buck grease. Yeah, there is the potential for an odor with them, but I hadn’t noticed it as being too bad when I had a pair of boys lo these many years ago. They smelled a little like corn chips. I’m not sure how temperaments compare in general between male mice and rats, but the ones I had were extremely affectionate with one another. Far more so than the guinea pig sows or rabbit does were with each other.

  55. says

    Hey thanks for welcoming me back!

    Well, chigau, I know, I’ll try to keep away from other threads, but just keeping up with TET is hard enough… But just glancing at the other thread: TF? Really? Why would they ask him to join – was my first reaction, and after catching up on all what’s happened it seems that many people now share this sentiment..

    Let’s see. For political updates I have Twitter and Facebook now, so I won’t bother you here, unless you’re interested in what happened in Japan today.

    Audley, I’ll send you an email.

    Talking about pregnancies, the other mum is pregnant now too! We had a pregnancy health care of sorts recently but now all seems fine. The sonagram showed it at 2 inches. I’m excited.

  56. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Sophie, the irony is that I’m a Canadian. I’m used to cold weather, or at least I was when I first got here. But only wnen it’s outside. This place has a toilet where it’s impossible to close the window, bloody uncivilised that. :)

  57. Sophia, Michelin-starred General of the First Mediterranean Iron Chef Batallion says

    FossilFishy:

    I’m lucky that our “cold” weather rarely gets below freezing. We’re a bit spoiled like that. A loo window that doesn’t close though… unforgivable!

  58. says

    also, I have a question: what is PenisGate? Is it the name DJ Grothe has given the shitstorm that is rightly befalling him right now? Don’t want to go back to all these uber long threads.

    (Interesting enough, googling just for “Penisgate” brings up the name of the president of SA)

  59. cm's changeable moniker says

    PTI: “since when did cronyism pass”. You might want to reconsider.

    My employer actually pays for referrals (if they get the job). It’s probably their most reliable recruitment channel.

    Maybe just ask if it would be appropriate?

  60. says

    Caine:

    This whole pregnancy/babes will be here anytime business is for the birds. Bah. (Sorry, Audley.)

    It is all good. ♥
    To each their own!

    Giliell:

    I was thinking about gifts in the range I made and received, like some onesies, a pyjama or two, shirt and trousers, stuff like that. Which can be very handy for a second child, too, especially if they’re born in different seasons.
    And I’m always kind of sorry for the not-firstborns who’re often a bit “neglected” in the gifts area on accounts of getting hand-me-downs.

    (Warning, a little bit ranty.)

    I think this might be the big difference between US customs and European customs– go big or go home. My experience with showers has been limited to middle-class families in the Northeast (so I can’t speak for the rest of the country), but they tend to be big, catered parties and the registry will include large pieces of furniture. Spending $100 for a shower gift really isn’t all that uncommon, nor is it on the “high” side of gift giving.

    I know other people besides my SiL who have had baby showers for their second baby, but they tended to have a little party at a friend’s house and the gifts were more to “fill in the gaps” of new things you’d need for a second child, but certainly not the big stuff like furniture, breast pumps, etc. That’s what I found tacky; not necessarily the shower itself, but the expectation that the guests were going to spend hundreds of dollars on things that the family already has and doesn’t need to replace.

    I ♥ giving baby gifts to expectant moms/new parents. When my niece was born, I was picking up little useful things for her all the time. But it was like your gift experience: little items of clothing, small toys, cute bibs, etc (and of course, this was after dropping a bunch of money on the shower gift). Mr Darkheart and I took plain white onesies and custom made designs for them (one that Mr Darkheart made was a picture of a d20 and said “My dad rolls 20s”. Nerd humor!). I love that shit. I do not love being made look like an asshole because, frankly, I do not have the money to buy your fetus lavish gifts, you know?

    Anyway.

    BTW, mind to send me your adress?

    Email sent!

    Pteryxx:

    ratsplaining

    ♥!

    pelamun:

    Audley, I’ll send you an email.

    Either the addy I gave earlier or the one posted on my blog would be fine. We’ll get you into PET yet!

  61. says

    And I’m always kind of sorry for the not-firstborns who’re often a bit “neglected” in the gifts area on accounts of getting hand-me-downs.

    Kids don’t prize “new” things unless they are taught to. I got hand me downs my whole life and I’ve grown into a thrifty person who is happy with less.

  62. says

    Good afternoon

    Audley
    Yep, that definetly seems to be a big difference. I mean, we got big gifts, but those were by our parents/grandparents, like a really good stroller and car seat and such. And we got tons of gifts from friends and family, but really the small stuff. I know that you can also put up a “baby table” at baby-stuff shops where you pick stuff you really want and need on and put it on a list.
    Hihi, with the most popular German RPG system that joke would backfire: 20 means you suck.

    pelamun
    “Penisgate” was a “debate” on Google+ by Emery Emery and some other people and it was really, really disgusting. You can find the whole thing at Almost Diamonds, including transcript, but only go there if your stomach and blood-pressure are really stable.

    Congarats to you and your friends.

    Tony
    Yes, please, thank you.
    No mustard though, please :)

    pet talk
    Rabbit bucks need to be neutered if not kept for breeding. Unless you can give them a whole warren to spread out, they’ll fight heavily (not to mention the stink). But if you make sure they don’t grow too fat it’s generally not detrimental to their health.

  63. says

    skeptifem:

    Kids don’t prize “new” things unless they are taught to. I got hand me downs my whole life and I’ve grown into a thrifty person who is happy with less.

    I’ve got two older sisters and, yeah, I totally agree. I had hand-me-downs until I was a teenager and it really wasn’t a problem. (My parents also cut my hair until I was about 10 or so. The horror!)

    But I get what Giliell is saying– a few small things specifically for the second baby isn’t unreasonable and it’s a nice gesture for the parents. I didn’t get the impression that she thought that anyone should spend a lot of money on a child that isn’t their own, especially when mom and dad already have the basics taken care of.

  64. julian says

    So does Thunderf00t get paid to be stupid or is it just a pro-bono thing h does?

  65. says

    julian, I was just wondering that myself. He’s reached a new, special level of idiocy.

    skeptifem, I am not, for lack of sperm.

  66. says

    skeptifem

    Kids don’t prize “new” things unless they are taught to. I got hand me downs my whole life and I’ve grown into a thrifty person who is happy with less.

    Yes and no.
    I’m a second kid and had lots of hand-me-downs, too. And I don’t think it’s bad, I think it’s good to teach kids that things have a value, that you can’t just consume and consume and consume. I take hand me downs for #1, too and buy second hand a lot.
    But I can’t deny that #1 gets a lot of choice that the little one doesn’t get because she’s simply expected to wear the clothes her sister grew out of (which, at the moment is still the best thing since sliced bread, but it will change), expected to play with the toys her sister used to have. Especially with “big stuff” which you try to buy only once. I certainly remember that as a kid at a certain point I wanted I bike that I had chosen, that fitted my needs and interests, that had my favourite colour. Seeing your sibling usually getting exactly what they wanted while you got what they didn’t want anymore sucked.

  67. says

    So does Thunderf00t get paid to be stupid or is it just a pro-bono thing h does?

    oh lord. hes posted again. and basically admitted that he had not read a sexual harassment policy until now.

  68. says

    skeptifem:
    It seems like everyone’s pregnant, doesn’t it? Personally, I know a crapton* of women who are preggers– it’s kind of weird.

    Giliell:

    I mean, we got big gifts, but those were by our parents/grandparents, like a really good stroller and car seat and such.

    My mom and dad have chipped in and bought us some very nice secondhand furniture that we could never hope to afford new. Of course, this has sent up the chorus of “but what about your baby shower?!

    *sigh* I’ll just tell the naysayers that my parents are doing it the German way. ;)

    *7 actually, between friends, family, and coworkers.

  69. says

    Giliell:

    You’re also welcome to aim for the little one’s birthday on the 22nd of October ;)

    Weird! That’s my mom’s birthday. And my due date* is my dad’s birthday (Oct 28th).

    October birthdays freaking rule.

    *Which got re-estimated at my second ultrasound. It was originally Halloween. *pout!*

  70. julian says

    well I am sick of not saying anything. I’m pregnant too. Have been for like 5 months.

    Congratulations?

    Anyway, I hope you are doing well and wish you a safe pregnancy.

  71. says

    well october would be a little early actually. I’ll be 5 months in a week and a half.

    but yeah I wouldn’t be pregnant if I didn’t want to be, so I am pretty happy. I spent the last 4 months sick as hell though. It prevented me from reading on a screen so I missed out on the internet (among other things).

  72. Ariaflame, BSc, BF, PhD says

    Yeah Sophia, even though it doesn’t get below freezing often here it does feel cold. (Especially compared to the 40C+ summer days). We’ve had some frost like things I believe.
     
    And I at least am not pregnant, and am unlikely in the extreme to become so. But congrats to skeptifem and the other expectant Pharyngula mothers.

  73. says

    skeptifem:

    well october would be a little early actually. I’ll be 5 months in a week and a half.

    Awesome. I’m closer to 6 months– it’s a little weird to think that I’ve passed the halfway point already. And it’s a big relief. I found that a lot of the stress of “OMG, I’m going to totally fuck this up!” abated once I made it through the first trimester.

    but yeah I wouldn’t be pregnant if I didn’t want to be, so I am pretty happy.

    I didn’t want to make any assumptions about where you lived or the availability of family planning services.

    That being said: WOO HOO! *confetti and sparklers and cake!*

    I spent the last 4 months sick as hell though. It prevented me from reading on a screen so I missed out on the internet (among other things).

    :(

    I still have mornings that are tough (two days last week, I barfed while getting ready for work). Thank goodness it’s temporary, huh?

    Good luck with everything, skeptifem. I hope you stay healthy throughout and your pregnancy progresses smoothly.

  74. says

    Congrats to skeptifem and Audley too!

    Child 1 is almost 2 now, and his vocabulary is exploding, it’s fascinating. He mixes in Low German words too, as one set of grandparents speaks nothing but LG with him…

  75. Sophia, Michelin-starred General of the First Mediterranean Iron Chef Batallion says

    Aww, I missed the Pharyngula Spawning Party! Had mine four months ago :P

    Congratulations to all involved :D

  76. Beatrice says

    Theadrupt and totally Pharyngula-rupt. I see from the first post title Thunderfoot is still working on his drama career.

    *off to at least skim through all I’ve missed*

  77. Louis says

    1) Multiple ‘Ruptitude on my part.

    2) Hungover.

    3) I’m trying to work out how agreeing with PZ on a subject is “groupthink” but agreeing with TFoot on a subject is not “groupthink”. How can agreeing on a subject be groupthink for one group but not for another group? I think this might be dodgy!

    4) Hi all!

    Louis

  78. Rey Fox says

    It’s going to get down to freezing tonight and this place has no insulation.

    My mother’s cousin who lived in Australia for a few years griped about that too. The loo in his house was a seeming afterthought, it stuck out from the rest of the house and wasn’t connected to the central air system. He ended up installing a heater in it. I don’t get why they don’t insulate houses there. Even if you don’t have strong winters, insulation keeps the house cool in the summer.

  79. Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan says

    skeptifem:

    is everyone here pregnant?

    Not me, for lack of desire to have kids.

    Congrats, by the way!
    ——————————————

    Hmm, stubbed toes (which REALLY hurt), or feeling like I’m wearing snowshoes? Screw it, I’ll round up when I buy my sandals. I need my toes.
    —————————————–

    Caine: All I could picture when you mentioned Esme eating a sandwich was her asking for a side of potato chips.

  80. opposablethumbs says

    Variously ‘rupt and semi ‘rupt (not really worth announcing; this is getting to be a near-permanent state of affairs).

    Congratulations to skeptifem! And best wishes for it all going smoothly and according to plan. Don’t forget, a t-shirt emblazoned with “Warning. Alien on board” is de rigeur in the best circles (however, a t-shirt with a 3D xenomorph in the process of erupting is also acceptable and may freak out onlookers even more effectively should you desire this effect).

    Brit with two teenage spawn: have never ever even encountered the formal baby-shower phenomenon let alone experienced it first hand. We got a few hand-me-downs from family, but with a very few exceptions everything came from second-hand/charity shops (a fraction of the price, obviously, plus there’s the bonus effect of recycling plus putting a little money into cancer research). Kids grow out of stuff eons before they could ever wear it out, after all! (well when they’re little they do). We used to get designer label stuff for a couple of quid, looking like it had been worn about twice if that! So I find the whole idea a bit frightening; it’s like something that started as a wonderful idea – lots of people chipping in to help new parents at a time when you suddenly need a lot of things all at once – a bit like a barn-raising, in principle – but which has since changed beyond all recognition into a display of wealth and obligation :(

    I don’t know if it’s always like that, or if it’s a trend, or does it just depend a lot on the individuals involved?

    I think you should include things like babysitting vouchers, evening-out-for-parents vouchers, and bottles of single malt whisky (ymmv) on any baby shower list!

    @Louis, it can never be groupthink if one agrees with TF because he is a Dude admired by Dudes and Chill Girls; it must always be groupthink if Horders agree with PZ because, well, we’re all meeen shouty feminazi manginas or something ::shrugs::

  81. says

    I haven’t felt it move yet so I just feel like I have a tumor. :( The support here has helped me a lot today, I’m alone with my bunnies bc the nigel is visiting family for a week or so. Its nice to have you all here to talk to.

  82. says

    opposablethumbs:

    .. but which has since changed beyond all recognition into a display of wealth and obligation :(

    I don’t know if it’s always like that, or if it’s a trend, or does it just depend a lot on the individuals involved?

    Nope, you’ve nailed it.

    Baby showers used to be gathering of close friends and family “chipping in” to help out in a financially difficult time for soon-to-be parents. Like a lot of things through, they’ve become a status marker amongst the middle class– it’s expected that you will have an event and ask for expensive gifts, so you don’t have to reduce yourself to not buying designer diaper bags/cribs/baby clothes/whatever or shopping *gasp!* secondhand.

    In my humble opinion, baby showers have gone from being a sweet gesture from the people you love to obnoxious and selfish gift grabs.

    (As before YMMV: I’m talking about my experience with middle-class friends/family in the northeastern US.)

  83. says

    I was thinking about the idea that rape and harassment victims would be socially irresponsible not to report what they were subjected to, so here are some thoughts on that.

    I suffer from depression, social anxiety disorder and some unspecified personality disorder and this is something I am usually very open about. In fact I do see it as the socially responsible thing for me to be open and talk about it, because far too many people are far to ignorant and have far too much prejudice on the subject of mental illness.

    For me. I would feel like a special kind of asshole if I chastised others and called them socially irresponsible for not being as open about it as I am – because guess what, they’re not me! There are no shortage of reasons to why people are uncomfortable talking about their mental illness, to name a few: stigma, often the illness itself makes it difficult, fear of social exclusion etc. And on top of that they have enough to deal with already.

    I can’t begin to imagine what it’s like to be a rape victim, but I do know that people react to trauma in different ways. So to those who think people are socially irresponsible for not reporting rape and harassment, even if you had a similar experience, that does not fucking give you the right to tell them how they should react and what they should or shouldn’t do. You’re not that person!

    I hope that was somewhat coherent, I was rather ENRAAAAAAGED while writing it, which seems to be a prerequisite for me to write more than a one-liner.

  84. says

    And isn’t it just typically Libertarian to think that your own ability to handle a situation applies to everyone else…

  85. says

    skeptifem:

    I haven’t felt it move yet so I just feel like I have a tumor. :(

    That’s totally understandable. I felt like I was being invaded for pretty much all of the first half of my pregnancy.

    How early you feel your fetus move depends a lot on where the placenta is– if it’s posterior, you can expect to feel movement as early as 16 weeks (my doc was surprised that it took me to week 18 before I felt movement). If it’s anterior, you’ll probably start to feel movement around 20 weeks or so.

    The advice that every gave me was to expect a “bubbly” or gassy feeling, and they were right. I still get it sometimes (my guess is it happens when DarkFetus shifts positions) even though we’ve entered the “beat Audley like she’s a pinata” stage. Also, don’t judge the amount of movement you feel against anybody else. I know that I have felt way more movement than the other women that I know who has been pregnant, but that doesn’t mean that less activity = a bad sign, you know?

    /unasked for advice

    The support here has helped me a lot today, I’m alone with my bunnies bc the nigel is visiting family for a week or so. Its nice to have you all here to talk to.

    :)

    I love talking about this shit (obviously). And I’m sorry to hear that you’re lonely.

  86. says

    I’m pretty sure my placenta is anterior. The midwife who listened for a heartbeat last time said it can make the heart harder to hear, and she had to turn the volume wayyyy up to hear anything. I’m getting an ultrasound in a couple of weeks, I think they can confirm that then.

    I’m going to a birth center w/midwives and I opted to wait to do imaging. I think most people start having ultrasounds right away.

    Is this your first pregnancy AZ? if not do you reccommend any specific childbirth class?

  87. Beatrice says

    Congrats to skeptifem!

    Also, congrats to everyone else who should be congratulated for anything – pregnancies, birthdays, no pregnancies.

  88. says

    I count among the non-pregnant. Also, since I had a vasectomy circa 1990, I am unlikely to become pregnant in the foreseeable future.

    Congrats and well-wishes to those who are.

  89. says

    skeptifem:

    The midwife who listened for a heartbeat last time said it can make the heart harder to hear, and she had to turn the volume wayyyy up to hear anything. I’m getting an ultrasound in a couple of weeks, I think they can confirm that then.

    Yup, they will confirm where the placenta is and if they don’t tell you, you can always ask.

    If you’re having your first ultrasound in the fifth month, then they will be probably be doing the “anatomy” ultrasound* where they will check both you and the fetus*– make sure you let the midwife/tech know beforehand if you want the fetus to be sexed or not.

    (Really, if I’m prattling on too much, just let me know.)

    I’m going to a birth center w/midwives and I opted to wait to do imaging. I think most people start having ultrasounds right away.

    It depends on a lot of factors, but especially what your insurance will cover and what your healthcare provider recommends. You don’t need one right away, unless there’s signs of a problem. I had my first ultrasound at 7 weeks (transvag FTW) because I was experiencing sharp abdominal pains (which turned out to be pain from my abdominal ligaments). If that hadn’t occurred, I would have had my first ultrasound midway through my 3rd month.

    Is this your first pregnancy AZ? if not do you reccommend any specific childbirth class?

    Yep. :)

    I’m signed up for three classes: newborn care (swaddling, changing diapers, infant CPR, etc), a breastfeeding class, and a pain management class (designed specifically for women who are planning to use painkillers during delivery). Lamaze classes are specifically for women who are going to have a natural childbirth, so depending on what you want, you may want to sign up for that instead of a more general pain management class.

    *The weirdest compliment I’ve received in my life was when Dr Jen was checking my chart after my ultrasound and said, “Oh good, you’ve got a nice, long cervix!”

    Come to think of it, she’s pregnant, too. So including Dr Jen and you, I know 9 women who are currently pregnant. O.o

  90. says

    There aren’t any drugs at the birth center (except emergency ones), just a big ol’ tub. I’m going to hire a doula. My work in health care has kind of soured me towards hospitals. No one in my personal life has said anything negative to me about it so thats nice. I doubt the internet will be as kind.

  91. says

    skeptifem:

    There aren’t any drugs at the birth center (except emergency ones), just a big ol’ tub.

    I’m lucky that we’ve got a top-class women’s hospital not far from where I live and I can design my “birth plan” however I see fit. They do everything from the big ol’ tub method (which my SiL has done there and will be doing again for her second delivery) to whoa painkillers!.

    I’m opting for whoa painkillers!.

    No one in my personal life has said anything negative to me about it so thats nice.

    That is totally awesome! I wish I was in your boat, believe me.

  92. says

    skeptifem
    More unsolicited advice (seriously, tell me to STFU if I’m intruding on your privacy)
    I can so understand the “alien” feeling. With #1 it really was like total SciFi before she was actually out. I just couldn’t believe that I was going to have a baby, that I was going to be a mum. It was just. not. real.
    As for birth: Don’t close your options beforehand. You might not want an epidural now, but that can change quickly (I thought I didn’t want one with #1, when I showed up at L&D I begged for one and then got told it was too late) and then it’s good to know what is going to happen.
    And don’t fall for the natural childbirth crowd. I know, they’re very warm and nice but they’re also a bastion of woo.

  93. says

    AZ- penny simkin has a “pain relief preference scale” available that may help you communicate w/caregivers about what you want.

    As for birth: Don’t close your options beforehand. You might not want an epidural now, but that can change quickly (I thought I didn’t want one with #1, when I showed up at L&D I begged for one and then got told it was too late) and then it’s good to know what is going to happen.
    And don’t fall for the natural childbirth crowd. I know, they’re very warm and nice but they’re also a bastion of woo.

    Studies show that people who hire doulas rate their pain the same as women who get epidurals, and there aren’t any medical risks to the methods of doulas. It seems to be highly effective for pain relief; the transfer rate of the birth center I am going to is about 4%, and the majority of those are for fatigue, not pain.

    The natural chilbirth crowd exists because of abuses of women in medical facilities. The abuses were routine practise, not rare incidents. That hasn’t ended completely. There is woo in the NCB crowd, but there is a lot of unjustified bullshit practices in OBGYN medicine that deserve examination. Theres woo in the green party too, it isn’t a reason to write a group off completely. I’ve done more than one post on my opinion of NCB and the medical system and have been reading about it for months. I don’t think people should dismiss NCB automatically, they are right about an awful lot.

  94. says

    skeptifem:

    penny simkin has a “pain relief preference scale” available that may help you communicate w/caregivers about what you want.

    Score! Thanks.

    I’m all about options for me and every other pregnant woman. If you want a natural childbirth, I’m behind you 100%.

    Giliell:

    I can so understand the “alien” feeling. With #1 it really was like total SciFi before she was actually out.

    I had the feeling until the DF started moving. I became totally comfortable with “feeling pregnant” when we found out that she is female– it helped me mentally when I stopped referring to DF as “it”.

  95. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Oh and yikes, yes, congratz skeptifem! It sure does seem like everyone’s preggers these days:)

  96. mattee says

    Hearty congrats to the expectant pharyngulites! (I became a dad 5 months ago today to a beautiful baby girl.)

    On a completely different subject: I have been looking for a really thorough, well-written debunking of Ron Paul-style libertarianism for a while now, and my google fu skills have given me a lot of satisfying rants and a lot of highly technical economic arguments, but does anyone know of a more complete resource that can help me out? I disagree with libertarianism based on my own amateur analysis, but any argument I have with the libertarians I know devolves into Austrian School economic jargon that is beyond me.
    Thx in advance.

  97. Sili says

    I don’t understand. How does a manhating Femistasi get pregnant?

    Did you use one of the penes you cut off whenever you first meat a man?

    (That is to say: Congrats!)

  98. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    (I became a dad 5 months ago today to a beautiful baby girl.)

    I would pay good money to see someone do a Candid Camera-style set-up where a caller to a radio talk show (or something similar) says, “I’m the mother of two embarrassingly homely children,” LOL.

  99. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Audley now you’re the one being cryptic! What do you mean babe?

  100. mattee says

    @Josh
    LOL, no doubt!
    I assure you my child is ridiculously and empirically cute (trust me, I did a YouTube poll and I am magically free of bias).

  101. says

    I don’t understand. How does a manhating Femistasi get pregnant?

    Did you use one of the penes you cut off whenever you first meat a man?

    I just tarted myself up, making some helpless man jizz everywhere so I could steal it (I got the idea from reading manboobz)

    that child support check is gonna be sweeeeeet…

  102. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    I just tarted myself up, making some helpless man jizz everywhere so I could steal it (I got the idea from reading manboobz)

    that child support check is gonna be sweeeeeet…

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA:)))))

    The very thought of you getting P2K-compliant is absurd enough to provoke considerable mirth (with you, not at you).

  103. Muse says

    Rhinebeck!
    The organizing committee of Mattir, Muse, and Onion Girl have meet and have begun to plan the Horde invasion of Rhinebeck. The best way to think of this is a mini-Horde con* that just happens to happen near sheep. You are welcome even if you don’t like sheep – there are plenty of things for you to do (maple sugar cotton candy for one).
    Rhinebeck will happen from Friday, October 19 to Sunday October 21st. We will arrive at the hotel on Friday and have a Horde pizza party. Saturday morning will be a trip to Rhinebeck Sheep and Wool (or other activities as people want) then a nice dinner out at a restaurant on Saturday evening followed by debauchery as desired. Sunday we’ll have brunch together then get on the road.
    Slightly differently than last year, we are going to make it an upfront cost that you can pay into over time, rather than having to come up with hotel costs all at once (and have us having to cover for the person who forget to pay their room cost). We are estimating that the cost is going to be around $350, although that might go down. That $350 will cover your room cost, the party room, pizza on Saturday and brunch on Sunday as well as entry into Rhinebeck and snacks throughout the weekend. Additionally, built into that cost is eeeeeevil socialism. We’d like to be able to support some people who would not otherwise be able to attend because of lack of money – so we’ve rounded that number up a bit (yes, if you can toss in a bit extra toward the scholarship fund we’d appreciate that too).

    All of that said, we need to start figuring out who is going to attend. To that end, we’ve created an email address, a poll, and a paypal account. Mattir, Onion Girl and Muse all have access to all three. The email address is RhinebeckHorde at google’s email service.

    IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN ATTENDING PLEASE FILL OUT THE POLL.

    If you have any questions, please email us.
    *Yes, there will be a harassment policy. It will be made by radical, shrieking, feminist harpies and will be enforced by making sure no one has any fun (and sharp pointy sticks). No, you may not sexually harass the sheep.

  104. says

    Ratsplaining? :falls over laughing:

    Skeptifem, rats are not like mice at all. Congrats on being knocked up!

    Oh, also – rats don’t make a sound when birthing. It’s creepy.

  105. opposablethumbs says

    Caine, congraturatlets!!!!
    .
    .
    skeptifem, fwiw, I think doing things the way you want to is important in itself – it’s a pretty vulnerable moment, so the last thing you want is to feel that other people are shunting you from pillar to post regardless of your own preferences. Handy to have the big guns available in case of unexpected emergencies, and at the same time you get to say that they only get used in case of unexpected emergencies.

    If you use the pool, having the water at the right temperature is important (I found out too late – meh, too bad) as too cool can apparently slow things down while still feeling reasonably warm. In that sense being in a centre might come in handy – I imagine they’re set up to keep the pool at optimum temperature automatically? Because we were at home, and got a bit distracted and let it get a little too cool to be optimally useful.
    .
    Belated congrats to you and other-parent-of-spawn, mattee!

  106. Sili says

    *meet, dammit.

    Pun honestly not intended.

    I just tarted myself up, making some helpless man jizz everywhere so I could steal it (I got the idea from reading manboobz)

    Everywhere? It it really worth it, having to unclog the drains afterwards? After the pilling, I mean.

  107. opposablethumbs says

    Oh, and Spain were a bit good there, I have to admit (as a non-sports-watching-very-much-at-all person). Poveri azzurri, they had a good tournament though.

  108. Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan says

    Eesh, it’s hard to keep a screw straight while trying to screw it into place at the same time. Time for the hammer-then-screw approach.

  109. says

    Well, no surprise about Laden.
    That mail is definetly his style. Justin Griffith is factually an idiot in his asessment of the slimepit, but Laden got what he deserved for that.

    I’m only wondering how they’re going to spin that into their hiveminde-groupthink-thingy, since Greg Laden might be an ass but always firmly stood on the pro-women side.

  110. hotshoe says

    I had the feeling until the DF started moving. I became totally comfortable with “feeling pregnant” when we found out that she is female– it helped me mentally when I stopped referring to DF as “it”.

    Hmm, I get what you mean about the mental effect of calling the developing baby “it”.

    Still, I recommend not being told the sex – if you can keep the ultrasound person from blurting it out! Having that fun little surprise at delivery is just about the most fun I can imagine: like opening a great Christmas present.

    It’s not as if we need to know in advance – at least not usually – don’t need to be sure we have a supply of all-pink clothes, for example.

    And if you honestly don’t know, then you can head off some of the worst sexist behavior on the part of your clueless friends and family, without having to get into a real argument (Please, grandma, don’t knit another pink afghan, we’d love a rainbow one ;) )

  111. says

    Hmm, I get what you mean about the mental effect of calling the developing baby “it”.

    Language is funny. German “es” is reguarly used for people, so nobody feels somehow strange about calling the fetus “it” (actually it’s “der Fötus” = he, but people use it for “das Baby”)

    It’s not as if we need to know in advance – at least not usually – don’t need to be sure we have a supply of all-pink clothes, for example.

    That’s the disadvantage of the German system. It was frightening how much pink stuff turned up in the wardrobe without us buying any.

    +++

    Oh shit, and Justin Griffith is clueless:
    Somebody intelligent said:

    If you think it is acceptable to “troll for the lulz” using sexist or racist language, you’re actually a sexist or a racist. Sorry to have to clue you in on reality.

    His reply:

    I don’t think this is necessarily true in all cases. Prince William or Harry or whoever dressed up like a Nazi. He wasn’t actually supportive of it…

    head->desk
    face->palm

  112. says

    Skeptifem:

    are rat babies gross and slimy or do they come out furry like kittens?

    They’re naked, disturbingly pink, blind, dry and warm. Pic posted @ 166.

  113. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Totes fine now but I think I just had a case of heat exhaustion from 25 minutes of mowing the lawn. Legs feeling like jelly, slightly nauseated, felt off-balance, sweat, sweat, sweat. I mean, it was in the mid 80s but it didn’t seem like the kind of day that would provoke that.

    Came indoors, ran head under cold water, drank lots of water and laid down in front of the AC. All better in about 20 minutes. But disturbing!

    And no, there were no heart symptoms or chest pain for the concerned:)

    Has this kind of thing happened to anyone else under similar circumstances? Because I’m just jonesing for your anecdotes to complete my reliable knowledge on the topic!

  114. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Blech. . they look like larvae Caine! Mammalian mirror neurons most definitely not engaged.

  115. Tony... therefore God says

    Caine:
    Re:Esme-
    Between the rat pregnancy talk and human pregnancy talk, I forgot how quick a rat comes to term. Oooh I bet they are adorable!

  116. Sili says

    Actually …

    They look like they could just get dumped in some batter and then straight into the deepfrier.

  117. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Caine in looking at your rat pictures I read:

    Happily hoggling the plate of corn.

    I was all like, “fuckin’ kinky rats.”

  118. Pteryxx says

    re rat babies:

    They’re naked, disturbingly pink, blind, dry and warm. Pic posted @ 166.

    They look and feel very much like a handful of small child’s fingers in your palm. (That’s really not as creepy as it sounds… okay, maybe it is. <_< )

    re pic: Squeeee! Esme looks bright and perky in that photo, and she's busy gathering them up like a good rat mom!

  119. Pteryxx says

    also Caine, because I’m a rodent geek that way: how are your pup sexing skills? Days-old, fuzzy stage, popcorn stage, weaning? I’m shamefully curious how many of each you ended up with. (I used to sex newborn mice for my job, but only with double-checking at 10 days and weaning.)

    …also, if a half-dozen (more or less) surprise spays are going to be a financial burden, I don’t want to assume, but I’d pitch in a little.

  120. says

    For some reason the ratlets remind me of the little rubber pigs used in some game or other that someone I knew was into. All I remember now is that you dumped the pigs out of a cup and one possible combination was called Makin’ Bacon.

  121. Tony... therefore God says

    Josh:
    Totes fine now but I think I just had a case of heat exhaustion from 25 minutes of mowing the lawn. Legs feeling like jelly, slightly nauseated, felt off-balance, sweat, sweat, sweat. I mean, it was in the mid 80s but it didn’t seem like the kind of day that would provoke that.

    Was your yard work done at the height of the day? Back when I mowed yards, I always did so before noon or after 5. It’s just too darned hot between 12 and 5.
    Hope you drank enough water :)

  122. Tony... therefore God says

    Caine:
    That pic makes me cry (in the good way). They’re all so adorable and cuddly and stuff.

  123. opposablethumbs says

    No relevant anecdotes, Josh, but I hope you’re going to err on the side of caution anyway. Heart stuff doesn’t always have handily typical symptoms, does it? (I have no idea, I’m just assuming that history urges prudence) You put your feet up and take it easy, you hear!

  124. Tony... therefore God says

    Josh:
    Sheesh.
    I need to learn to read (re: you drinking water).

  125. Esteleth, Raging Dyke of Fuck Mountain says

    Threadrupt!

    I have CLEANED ALL THE THINGS this weekend.

    I have a sad. I bought bagels at the store and some fish leaked sauce on the shelf, which got on the bagels. D: D: MY BAGELS.

  126. says

    Josh:

    Hahah Sili, yes! They’re Popplers.

    Yes, thanks you two. Pity Lrrr isn’t around for a light snack. When you two can incubate and birth 12 babes in 20 days, let me know.

    Pteryxx:

    how are your pup sexing skills? Days-old, fuzzy stage, popcorn stage, weaning? I’m shamefully curious how many of each you ended up with. (I used to sex newborn mice for my job, but only with double-checking at 10 days and weaning.)

    I don’t have any sexing skills! Not yet anyway. Well, not with ratlets, I haz ‘em with kittens. Hopefully, we’ll be able to at least start assessing around 9 days…I better have it right by weaning!

    …also, if a half-dozen (more or less) surprise spays are going to be a financial burden, I don’t want to assume, but I’d pitch in a little.

    Oh, thank you, I’ll let you know. I really appreciate that. Hopefully, we can work a deal with our vet clinic, they’re good that way. I do want girls, but Christ on a Cracker, 6? Yikes. I could be totally fucking wrong about this, but I thought rat births were more skewed to males. It’s not like I’ve researched this or anything, but at least here, it’s damn hard to come by any females.

  127. says

    Tony:

    That pic makes me cry (in the good way). They’re all so adorable and cuddly and stuff.

    Aaaw. They’ll be much cuddlier in about 9 days, when they look like actual ratties. :)

  128. Esteleth, Raging Dyke of Fuck Mountain says

    Oh, rat pups.

    Yep. Look like rodent pups, which is to say they’re kinda disturbing.

    Congrats on being a grandrattie, Caine.

  129. Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan says

    Wow, Esme doesn’t look like she’s been taxed at all by the birth. And she’s already taking a head count. Good mommy.

    Conga-rats to the Caine household!

  130. mattee says

    Josh @168
    Trigger warning pregnant people: I mention symptoms of nausea

    Totally have this happen to me, once every couple of summers. Usually when I forget that I really can’t do labour in hot weather (and that’s just Canadian hot, not crazy hot). I have definitely gone beyond the nauseated stage to the full-on “oh that’s what I ate this morning” stage. I have never suffered any long term ill effects (of course IANA doctor), and with experience I’ve found that it must be mainly due to dehydration. So, I drink lotsa water if I have to be working or playing in any substantial heat.

  131. Wren, a Tru Hoppist says

    Oh, thank you Lonely Panda, e.s.l. @42. I’m sorry I missed your post! Thanks so much for finding a video with the actual audio!

  132. says

    PTI:

    Wow, Esme doesn’t look like she’s been taxed at all by the birth. And she’s already taking a head count. Good mommy.

    She certainly makes it look easy. Esme is a bit freaked and I hope calming down now. I was stupid enough to try and get a couple hours of sleep earlier and of course, that’s when the birthing started. I had to get her and the four ratlets out of the spot she picked and into the Rat Condo – she was not pleased about that and remains displeased. I’d love to allow her and the babes freedom of the studio, but it’s just easier to keep her locked up instead of the boys. It’s going to be a long five weeks. *sigh*

    Thanks Esteleth & Weed Monkey. :)

    Giliell, updates will be forthcoming.

  133. Pteryxx says

    Caine, here’s a sexing guide with photos:

    http://www.afrma.org/sexing101.htm

    Basically, go by anogenital distance – longer for males, shorter for females. The trick is to make two piles and compare the pups side by side, to each other and to the ones in the other pile, until you can definitely sort them all into “long” and “short” piles.

    There’s no need to do it anytime soon, ten days or so is ideal – when they have fuzz and can show teat marks, but are still limp and easy to handle. Ten to twenty days is “popcorn” stage (for mice at least) when they ricochet off anything when disturbed or just high-spirited. Around weaning they start calming down again.

    Good luck! It’s going to be an exciting few months.

  134. Esteleth, Raging Dyke of Fuck Mountain says

    Seconding Pteryxx’s recommendation, Caine. That’s the guide we use at work for pups.

    I must confess: I looked at the pic and started the mental process of trying to identify which ones were WT, which ones were heterozygous, and which ones were homozygous.

    *facepalm*

  135. says

    Pteryxx:

    Caine, here’s a sexing guide with photos:

    http://www.afrma.org/sexing101.htm

    Basically, go by anogenital distance – longer for males, shorter for females. The trick is to make two piles and compare the pups side by side, to each other and to the ones in the other pile, until you can definitely sort them all into “long” and “short” piles.

    Thank you, thank you, thank you!

    Pelamun, thanks! :)

    Esteleth:

    *facepalm*

    That actually made me laugh, no need to palm the face.

  136. MissEla says

    For all Horde Crafters:

    I have a bunch of amber glass bottles that my soapmaking essential and fragrance oils came in, and I have no further use for them. They are empty and clean and come with black plastic screw caps, perfect for glitter/embossing powder/rhinestones/beads/etc. There are 6 2-oz bottles and 5 1-oz bottles. If anyone wants them (absolutely FREE! I want them *off my windowsill*!), please e-mail me, misshershey, on the google mail machine. Thanks! :)

  137. Pteryxx says

    Esteleth: I know right? This is all making me homesick for work in a colony again. I would LOVE to spend fourteen hours taking tail clips while listening to an mp3 player in a sterile container. *snif*

  138. cicely (maker of Very Speshul sammiches, for a Select Clientele) says

    And Stone Giants with magic-user classes is a nasty trick to pull.
    *sigh*
    Optimistically four days to town, five hit points, outta spells, dragging one dead and one incapacitated comrade.
    It’s gonna be a looooong epic.

    *pouncehug* for Caine.
    :)

    Giliell, glad to hear you’re feeling better.

    She’s eating for 23, you know.

    :D :D :D

    ‘Morning, Audley. It’s way too hot here for hanging around outdoors.

    is everyone here pregnant?

    Nope. Not possible. Had the entire system uninstalled years ago.
    :)

    Congrats, skeptifem, on your pregnancy. *chocolate*
    Sorry that the last four months have sucked, wishing for less suckage for you in the present and future.

    Hi, Loius!
    -

  139. cm's changeable moniker says

    Skeptifem, congratulations, and I hope it works out well, but this is pure bullshit:

    Studies show that people who hire doulas rate their pain the same as women who get epidurals

    Citation seriously fucking needed.

    My anecdata indicate the exact opposite.

  140. Esteleth, Raging Dyke of Fuck Mountain says

    Have gone on a repotting spree. Went to the store, bought new potting soil, repotted everything with mite-repellant pellets in the soil, and mite-repellant spray spritzed all over everything.

    Also, the plants look nicer, what with all the dead stuff snipped away. ^_^

    Was funny: I carried one of the plants back inside (I did all the dirty work outside) and set it back on its shelf.

    Morgan: ?? *sniff* OMG TEH HORROR *spit spit spit*

  141. Esteleth, Raging Dyke of Fuck Mountain says

    Pteryxx, you did tail clips? We usually use a combination of ear tags and separate cages for each population.

  142. Pteryxx says

    Esteleth, the tail clips were for genotyping; ear tags for ID. Our transgenics weren’t distinguishable by eye.

  143. Esteleth, Raging Dyke of Fuck Mountain says

    Ah. Ours are distinguishable by eye, considering that they have a degenerative disease. The heterozygous mice are born normal sized, but have stunted growth, the homozygous are either born tiny or dead.

    Those are the degenerative disease-mice.

    The other ones we use have a lysosomal storage disease. D:

  144. Esteleth, Raging Dyke of Fuck Mountain says

    However, the Caineratties all appear to be healthy WTs.

    So enough of my blather.

  145. Sophia, Michelin-starred General of the First Mediterranean Iron Chef Batallion says

    Mm. Another completely unsolicited anecdote on the babby front – ignore/rebuff as necessary. (also not nice descriptions of pain and needles)

    I’m needlephobic. Not ‘oh, I don’t like needles’ needlephobic, the ‘sobbing and shaking uncontrollably in the corner whilst biting a pillow’ kind – even when the needle is being had by somebody else.

    I was 100% against having an epidural, though I needed antibiotics during the delivery for strep B, so I had to have a cannula in. That was traumatic – they tried to put two in. Got over that eventually. I had to have an oxytocin drip as well, which increased the speed adn intensity of the contractions to the point where I was not only screaming in pain but actually on the verge of passing out. If I didnt have an epidural I’d have been unconscious and they’d have had to take me in for an emercency ceasar, which I really didn’t want.
    Epidural went in (consultant anaesthesiologist – score!), pain disappeared, rest of birth process was AMAZING. All the sensation except pain. Seven hours later I had a goo-covered little guy on my chest and felt so overconfident I wanted to walk to my room :P

    This was a public hospital, btw. I was technically a private patient but they accidentally booked me in under the public system – I didn’t notice a thing. Of course, this is Australia and I have no clue how hospitals over there would do things differently. All I can say is a good obstetrician/midwife will help you SO much, answer all questions and guide you through the whole thing. Put in place a plan for the birth with contingency options if things go pear-shaped. A plan takes away so much of the stress!

    In any case, enjoy the pregnancy if you can. The second trimester was actually somewhat enjoyable once the little squishy started kicking about and some of the first trimester arseness went away :)

  146. Pteryxx says

    However, the Caineratties all appear to be healthy WTs.

    So enough of my blather.

    Heh – I instinctively eyed them for good color, muscle tone/posture and size. They look very healthy indeed. (And it’s a great dynamic photo.)

  147. Esteleth, Raging Dyke of Fuck Mountain says

    My first thought was, “Hmm. WT, WT, WT…”

    My second was confusion that Esme isn’t white.

  148. says

    Esteleth:

    However, the Caineratties all appear to be healthy WTs.

    Here’s hoping. You can blather on, I don’t mind learning and it doesn’t bother me.

    My second was confusion that Esme isn’t white.

    Ummm…I is lost. School me.

  149. chigau (違う) says

    Caine
    Best of luck with the new arrivals.
    —-
    yay for the recently revealed pregnancies.

  150. says

    cicely:

    ‘Morning, Audley. It’s way too hot here for hanging around outdoors.

    We had a beautiful morning that quickly went to shit. By the time we started running errands around 2 o’clock, it was already 100°.

    Now, I’ve never claimed to be the smartest person ever, but I seriously did something really fucking stupid today– I let myself get dehydrated. I almost passed out while in the supermarket and I just barfed which is not a good sign. I’ve moved my ass into the one A/Ced room in my house and I am chugging Gatorade. Thankfully, I’m starting to feel more normal and DarkFetus is bouncing all around like usual, so she’s okay.

    As soon as I finish this post, I’m going to lay still in my bed for a little while, with my hand on my tummy so I can feel the DF do her jumping jacks or Tae Kwon Do or whatever, maybe sleep some.

    hotshoe:

    And if you honestly don’t know, then you can head off some of the worst sexist behavior on the part of your clueless friends and family, without having to get into a real argument (Please, grandma, don’t knit another pink afghan, we’d love a rainbow one ;) )

    :)

    I’ve already put my foot down with my family (I’m not as worried about my friends) and since both my mom and my MiL are totes on board, we shouldn’t have a problem.

    Mr Darkheart is the type of person that has to plan ahead for everything, so I agreed to find out for him. I didn’t realize that knowing her sex would help me too!

    Caine:

    The Ratlets Have Hit The Planet.

    Oh.
    My.
    Gawd.

    Both Mr Darkheart and I squeed!

    Josh:

    Has this kind of thing happened to anyone else under similar circumstances? Because I’m just jonesing for your anecdotes to complete my reliable knowledge on the topic!

    See above. Dizzy, weak, tunnel vision, and nausea. D:

    Sofia:

    In any case, enjoy the pregnancy if you can. The second trimester was actually somewhat enjoyable once the little squishy started kicking about and some of the first trimester arseness went away :)

    It’s funny, I told my doc that I feel better now* than I did before I became pregnant and for the most part it’s true (besides the few very minor digestive issues that I’ve had)– I’m going to go ahead and attribute it not only to the SUPERWOMAN PREGNANCY HORMONES!! but to the fact that I quit smoking and I’ve substituted my completely awful full of fat and salt diet for fresh fruits and veg and homemade foods.

    I love to feel DarkFetus kicking around and sometimes I feel a little lonely when she’s not.

    Okay everyone, I’m feeling somewhat better, but I’m going to try to sleep some and “reset”. I’ll prolly be back a little later this evening.

    *Obviously not taking the idiocy of today into account, ‘cos that was my own damned fault.

  151. Pteryxx says

    My second was confusion that Esme isn’t white.

    I’d bet this means Esteleth works with albinos. Mine were all black mice, the classic C57Bl/6. Esme’s a nice wildtype agouti, golden brown; any guesses what the pups will be? Or which of the males was the sire?

  152. says

    Audley:

    Oh.
    My.
    Gawd.

    Both Mr Darkheart and I squeed!

    Oh I wish he wasn’t allergic…otherwise, you guys would be getting a couple of little presents. ;D

    Thanks, Chigau.

    Esteleth:

    Most laboratory rats are albino.

    Okay. Why?

  153. says

    Pteryxx:

    Esme’s a nice wildtype agouti, golden brown; any guesses what the pups will be? Or which of the males was the sire?

    Yes, that’s why Esme was dumped at the petstore, barely 2 months old – most people do not want rats which resemble wild ones. It’s up in the air who got to her, Sam or Havelock. I suspect it’s Sam, who is another wild type, brown, damn near identical to Esme. Havelock is black and white. Rubin is grey and white, but he’s not a contender for sire (cryptorchid.)

  154. Esteleth, Raging Dyke of Fuck Mountain says

    Most laboratory rats are albino.

    Okay. Why?

    Extensive inbreeding, I’d guess.

    Both the Wistar and Sprague-Dawley strains are so inbred that there is one genetic pattern. Like, the rats are all essentially clones of each other.

    But I dunno, really.

    I work with four strains: WT Wistar rats (white), twitcher mice (black), Nude/SCID mice (these are hairless), and a lysosomal storage mutant rat (also white) we cloned ourselves.

  155. Pteryxx says

    I remember once working with a colony of Zucker rats, which were black with white belly patches, similar to Caine’s new boy. Also fatty and insulin-resistant, drank a full bottle of water daily per rat, chewed to pieces anything that got near their cages (liked to drag their cage cards out of their holders and shred them), and just the friendliest bounciest lab rodents I’ve ever handled.

  156. Esteleth, Raging Dyke of Fuck Mountain says

    The first animals I worked with where one of the WT mouse strains (don’t remember which one, but they were white).

    I say I “worked with them,” but what that actually means is that at various intervals I would go to the vivarium with a dish and ask for certain pieces of a fresh sacrifice.

  157. Esteleth, Raging Dyke of Fuck Mountain says

    As an aside, I love the fact that the proper term is “sacrifice.”

  158. Pteryxx says

    Esteleth: I would’ve been one of the techs that got the parts for you. One reason I kept pet rats was to make amends. >_>

  159. Esteleth, Raging Dyke of Fuck Mountain says

    Pteryxx, the techs always complained that the substantia nigra in a mouse is so tiny that it is hard to distinguish.

    *shrug*

    That sac room had the best artwork. Seriously, stenciled anthropomorphized cartoon rodents scampering across the walls!

  160. Esteleth, Raging Dyke of Fuck Mountain says

    Also: the term “substantia nigra.”

    More or less literally, “that black stuff.”

  161. Pteryxx says

    Esteleth: *fresh* tiny brain parts? Urgh. I was never THAT good. Sample consistency can be a big deal in brains when the area right *next* to what you want gives you confounding results.

  162. Esteleth, Raging Dyke of Fuck Mountain says

    Well, if we got contaminating stuff, that wasn’t a big deal, because we mostly were just looking for dopaminergic neurons, which occur elsewhere in the brain. We asked for the substantia nigra because of the density. But yeah, I would mush the samples, then run them through an sort for dopamine transporter-positive cells.

  163. chigau (違う) says

    Esteleth
    Primatologists, in the bad old days, were known to “sacrifice” entire troops of monkeys for the sake of science.

  164. Esteleth, Raging Dyke of Fuck Mountain says

    Caine:

    Nope. I would have loved that, but Chas didn’t care for girls. He and Alfie were mates.

    That being true, Chas still could have done the deed. The estrus pheromones can be that powerful.

  165. sisu says

    myeck @77: pass the pigs!

    skeptifem: congrats! A good doula is worth hir weight in gold. Just, if you can? Try not to get too invested in the manner that the babe is born. The goal is healthy baby, healthy mother, however that happens. I tried for a drug-free, nonintervention birth, with a doula and midwives at a birth center. Ended up with a c section after 3 days of nonprogressing labor, with the babe in distress. It all ended up fine (she starts K in the fall) but it took me a really long time to get past what I saw as my failure. Which was just nuts – she was askew in my uterus, so all the contractions and birthing tubs and guided visualizations in the world weren’t going to get her out of there on her own. I say this not, NOT! to be judgmental of your goal for a more low-tech birth! It’s a great goal and if you can achieve it, that’s awesome. Just don’t be too hard on yourself if you don’t, okay?

  166. ibyea says

    My god, today mom and I had a massive starfart at work. After a customer rejected the cheese steak we made because the hot pepper was mixed with the meat instead of on top, we got really angry. So, when two customers seem to make the exact same order, we just blasted them, having gotten really paranoid that the person sent them to get the order. So we rejected the first person, and almost rejected the second person. Thankfully, they, along with dad, managed to calm us down.

    I hate my job.

  167. Tony... therefore God says

    So I’m thinking the Google NEXUS is the tablet/e-reader for me. Pre orders have started and it becomes available next month. That is all..

  168. says

    Esteleth:

    That being true, Chas still could have done the deed. The estrus pheromones can be that powerful.

    Nope. Chas had 8 months to knock her up and he never showed the slightest interest in her that way. Rubin did, immediately. Also, it just doesn’t time right – going back 20 days, we had just brought Havelock & Sam home, Chas was dead. (Unless Chas did a really surprising thing in his last week and my timing is completely off!)

  169. Pteryxx says

    Caine: 8 months? Esme’s not that old, I thought, she was just old enough to be in estrus? (My memory’s terrible…)

  170. ibyea says

    @Caine
    What’s wrong with rats that resemble wild ones that people don’t want them?

  171. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Audley, we had the same day! I know just how you feel and it’s a bit frightening, isn’t it? The more we know. . .

  172. cicely (maker of Very Speshul sammiches, for a Select Clientele) says

    *hugs* for Audley and DF. No more dehydrations! Take care of yourself! *stern look*

    Wait; Josh, you got all dehydrated, too? *hugs* and *admonitions*.
    -

  173. says

    Pteryxx:

    8 months? Esme’s not that old, I thought, she was just old enough to be in estrus? (My memory’s terrible…)

    Esme is 10 months old, we’ve had her for 8. :) It turns out, after I did some reading up on rat pregnancy, it’s not advisable to breed them after 8 months old, it seems the risk of defects goes up after that, so we’re lucky all the little ones seem healthy.

    Ibyea:

    What’s wrong with rats that resemble wild ones that people don’t want them?

    People are stupid? There’s a small minority of people who want rats who resemble wild ones, however, it seems most people want rats who look as different from wild as possible, else they don’t look like pet rats. It’s this “oh, pet rats are cute! Eeuuuw, wild rats are icky!” thing. Like I said, stupid.

  174. says

    What’s wrong with rats that resemble wild ones that people don’t want them?

    pet rats/fancy rats are presumed to be from domestic breeding stock and bred to be receptive to human handling. People associate wild looking rats with carrying disease or being adverse to handling.

  175. Pteryxx says

    There’s a small minority of people who want rats who resemble wild ones, however, it seems most people want rats who look as different from wild as possible, else they don’t look like pet rats. It’s this “oh, pet rats are cute! Eeuuuw, wild rats are icky!” thing. Like I said, stupid.

    Seconding Caine. I’ve actually HEARD this firsthand, on many occasions, from folks looking for pets, that wild (brown) rats are disgusting and spread disease but albino pink-eyed rats don’t look like real rats anymore so they’re cute and cuddly. Often they don’t have a problem with gray rats, or hooded rats, or even *black* rats, but not agouti-brown ones. I suspect there’s some sort of rat-related Uncanny Valley syndrome going on there.

  176. says

    OMG ya go threadrupt for a couple days and ALL THE BABIES start popping out all over the places!

    Congrats to everyone who has sprogged x12, or helped someone sprog x12, or discovered/revealed sproglets on the way, or anything at all! *confetti*

  177. says

    Uh, does anyone know if nursing rats are supposed to do the traditional side lay or if they lay on top of the ratlets? Esme is laying on top and looking distinctly uncomfortable and at least two of the ratlets haven’t had any milk. I think there are at least two girls, by the way.

  178. carbonfox says

    Hello! Longtime reader; first time posting on the new site. The regulars are some of the most fiercely intelligent folks I know and I have learned so much here, so I wanted to get some advice about something that has been bothering me.

    I just came out of a five-year relationship with a man who some months ago finally came to terms with his homosexuality. We are still best friends, live together, sleep in the same bed (non-sexually) and support each other emotionally and financially, so there are no hard feelings between us (this was a long time in the making and we went through it together). 

    However, this man also happened to be my first serious boyfriend (we were only sixteen when we started dating – I’m now 21), so I feel somewhat uninformed when it comes to the average straight man of my age. I wanted to get the hoard’s opinion on whether the following behavior is common or acceptable.

    About three months ago, I began seeing a smart and fairly decent fellow, who treats me well, apart from the following. 

    First things first: he refers to most women as “bitches” or “whores” – jokingly, I’m sure, but it still unnerves me. He constantly remarks to me on how “hot” other women are in public, or pulls up erotic images online and examines them in detail in front of me. At first I didn’t mind, because as humans we all have our attractions and these natural feelings should be accepted, but the comments have become so common that it makes me uncomfortable. Sometimes, I just wish he’d keep his thoughts I himself.

    Last week, a woman started texting him; she sent him naked photos, which didn’t bother me, until he started talking about getting and erection to them and forwarding them to his friends. One day, immediately after sex, he told me he had never had sex with a “super hot” woman (I used to have an eating disorder and this didn’t help my self-esteem; as an aside, I am not an unattractive woman by any means). What finally drove me to seek your advice: we were playing a video game today (Saints Row: The Third) and he created a red-headed, ultra-busty, barely-clothed main character (no problem there; everybody likes an attractive avatar); he then took the time to inform me, with an apology, that if this woman ever solicited him, he would certainly have sex with her. I’d fully expect a man to have sex with such a beautiful woman if given the opportunity, but it bothered me that he had to rub it in my face. He doesn’t seem intentionally malicious about it, just clueless.

    Anyway, is this overtly sexual behavior something that straight men do? My ex never behaved like this, but I feel like it’s an unfair comparison because he wasn’t attracted to women. Am I being over-sensitive and insecure, as I fear? 

    Your enlightening of my pitiful ignorance is much appreciated. 

  179. Pteryxx says

    Caine: in my experience, nursing rats mostly do the umbrella posture. Also IIRC rats only have 10 teats, but the ones I handled could still nurse far more than 10 pups (fosters, etc). I think good moms ensure they take turns or something.

    I assume the babies are in nesting fluff? I have this feeling it might help the mother not flatten them…

  180. dysomniak, darwinian socialist says

    @carbonfox What Ing said. DTMF. You could try explaining that this bothers you and asking him to stop, but with this many examples of bad behavior I seriously doubt it would work. I’ve known a lot of good guys and a lot of skeevy fucks (who will be a lot more honest about their skeeviness when there are only men in earshot) and he definitely sounds like the latter. Cut your losses.

  181. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    carbonfox. . I’m confused. You say he came to terms with his homosexuality, yet everything you say about him describes him as a straight guy.

    But yeah—that’s fucking creepy and I’d want to be far away from him.

  182. dysomniak, darwinian socialist says

    @SC Your post at Justin’s place was everything I wanted say on the matter. Thanks.

  183. Sophia, Michelin-starred General of the First Mediterranean Iron Chef Batallion says

    carbonfox:

    Firstly, welcome! I’m another long time reader and relatively new commenter also haing problems with ridiculously stupid entitled male privilege in people I’m close to.

    Truthfully – to me, this guy sounds like a total arse. Decent people do NOT behave that way. Using ‘bitch’ or ‘whore’ is a common thing for immature people to do, but it is NOT right, and it tends to be indicative of deeper issues that need resolving. He could also just be playing into the young guy macho thing and has no idea his actions are offensive.

    I’m not saying that there’s no hope, informing him that his behaviour makes you uncomfortable and is derogatory to women might actually do something if he actually cares about how you feel, but it may simply cause him to double down, get defensive and shrug off your concerns as unimportant.

    It’s a disgusting way to behave, but so ingrained in our culture that it’s really hard to shift. I won’t give you any advice on how to proceed as it’s a very personal situation and the way you react has to be determined by you.

    My own experiences right now are with a husband who I’ve been with for a few years. I’ve only recently realised exactly how abusive the relationship was, and it started with small things like the use of gendered slurs. It escalated with assertions that everything that was mine (including my opinions!) was inferior, and finally got to breaking point when he insisted groping me at random was fine because -I- made him feel that way. When I asked him to stop because it made me feel unsafe, instead of apologising he went on the defensive, stopped talking to me altogether and even went so far as to leave the room whenever I entered it. I’d drop him like a hot sack of potatoes if there weren’t a child involved.

    In any case – you might just like to keep an eye on the warning signs, test the waters by casually trying a correction of a gendered slur (or saying they make you feel uncomfortable and why they do so). You also may not.

    Pharyngula is a place full of many awesome people, I’ve found that out myself in the last few weeks. Vent, ask questions and learn your rights, you may just save yourself a lot of trouble and pick up a few damn good people to talk to :)

  184. Sophia, Michelin-starred General of the First Mediterranean Iron Chef Batallion says

    Josh – I read carbonfox’s post as describing two different guys – the first one is gay and seems awesome, the second one is the straight seeming-arsehole. :)

  185. chigau (違う) says

    carbonfox
    Your new relationship sounds very unhealthy for you.
    Make no mistake, he’s malicious not clueless.
    Dump him.

  186. ibyea says

    @Josh
    Carbonfox says that she began dating the douchebag after a 5 years relation with her gay friend. Not the same people.

  187. Sophia, Michelin-starred General of the First Mediterranean Iron Chef Batallion says

    Ing: If you’re talking about my situation, yeah. I tried addressing the issues, the fact that he won’t budge an inch on any issue at all is the entire reaon I’ve bailed. Currently staying with my parents (who are also not wonderful, but infinitely better than feeling unsafe and having my bodily autonomy violated) but have no job, can’t drive and have to do a lot of very painful pick-up and drop-offs of my lovely four month old son.

    Totally heart-wrenching, and the worast part is I can’t talk to my husband to try to figure things out as I know he won’t listen to a word. He still wants me to just apologise for “accusing” him of things, come home and crawl right back beneath his heels.

    Not. Gonna. Happen.

  188. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Oh, duh. It’s me. I blame the half a X*anax I took after recovering from the heat exhaustion, which of course precipitated a full-scale panic attack because heart will stop werking. Good times in my head, good times:))

    Yeah carbonfox, dump that guy. For your own well-being.

  189. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Audley—it’s easy to let it happen. It sneaks up on you. I’m sure you’re not to blame, but now we both know our limits.

  190. Sophia, Michelin-starred General of the First Mediterranean Iron Chef Batallion says

    Ing: Indeed. Sorry, wan’t sure. Works either way, anyway!
    (ego says: “When it doubt, it’s always about MEEE”) ;)

  191. carbonfox says

    Note: typing on the phone, so forgive any typos.

    Ing, dysomniak, Josh, chigau —

    Thanks so much for your advice. I had a feeling this was unacceptable behavior, but an outside opinion helped me to confirm; since I’m so new on the dating scene I’d kind of (inaccurately) assumed that this was simply how straight young males behaved. This is exactly why I thought of Pharyngula when I had these questions; I can only imagine the advice I would’ve received elsewhere. Over the years, and especialy coming out as an atheist and helping the ex come out as gay on a rural community, I’ve depended on this site to stay sane.

    Sophia —

    I’m so sorry to hear what you’re going through. It’s unfortunate that your husband felt (feels) entitled to behave that way, but I really do appreciate your advice from the inside. I hope you’re able to resolve things without too much pain, especially with a child involved.

  192. A. R says

    or even *black* rats

    Yep, we’re OK with the ones that transmit Bubonic plague, but we hate the ones that look like wild Norway rats.

  193. says

    I’d kind of (inaccurately) assumed that this was simply how straight young males behaved.

    Even if that was the majority don’t settle for it. You don’t deserve it. Hell if all straight boys did act like that I’d advise finding a nice bi man.

  194. Sophia, Michelin-starred General of the First Mediterranean Iron Chef Batallion says

    carbonfox: Ack! I didn’t want to come across as wanting sympathy, just trying to be a comrade, I suppose. Solidarity for the repressed prole-femme-tariat and all that junk :)

    Relatedly, I think that that -is- how many straight young males behave, if I can indulge in a generalisation. It’s wrong and disgusting, but ‘normal’. It simply illustrates how far we have to go to make real life a little less broken. Blah.

  195. says

    Even if that was the majority don’t settle for it. You don’t deserve it. Hell if all straight boys did act like that I’d advise finding a nice bi man.

    Werd!

    carbonfox, nope, this isn’t one of those borderline cases where reasonable people might disagree over whether there’s an issue or not. The dude is absolutely behaving like scum.

  196. says

    Pteryxx, thank you!

    I assume the babies are in nesting fluff? I have this feeling it might help the mother not flatten them…

    Shredded paper towels.

    Carbonfox, welcome! My opinion, dump him, he’s a fucking asshole. It won’t get better.

  197. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    ING-I have no confidence the bi ones would be any better. Hell, we’ve seen what a massive pig-pile of failfuckery goes on in the head of some of the gay ones.

  198. says

    @Carbonfox
    A bit late here, as others have already said it, but dump that asshole post-haste, he’s going nowhere good.

  199. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Again I Blame the Benzodiazepines. Crikey but I’m stupid tonight.

  200. echidna says

    carbonfox,
    The guy you describe is not interested in even appearing to want to please you, and seems to be testing you to see how much abuse you will put up with. It can only get worse. Whether it’s normal depends a bit on where you are.

  201. Pteryxx says

    Caine, I went looking for some pictures of the umbrella posture:


    http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff234/MaineRatRescue/ME%20Rats/Lisbon%20Rats/Tillies%20Gone%20with%20the%20Wind%20Litter/04-07-11TiltyTillynursingbabies.jpg


    http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff234/MaineRatRescue/ME%20Rats/South%20Paris/DAYS%20OF%20THE%20WEEK%20LITTER/DSCF9310.jpg


    http://www.curiousv.com/curiosityrats/files/graphics/nursing.jpg

    I had two breeder rats with litters in the same tub once, and both of them wanted ALL the babies. Eventually they ended up with 30-some babies in one big nest, and they took turns stretched on all four tippy-toes over the pile umbrella-fashion.

    I’ve had a mouse do that too… her feet actually didn’t touch the surface, so she was body-surfing on top of a heap of squirmy pups. (They weren’t even her pups. Most maternal mouse I’ve ever seen.)

  202. Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan says

    carbonfox – Dump him. You don’t need bilge-spewers like him in your life.
    ————————————————-

    Yay, shade is installed!

    Crap, I think I measured incorrectly. It looks like it should be moved an inch to the right. But dammit, I’m SO not bothering! I’ve had enough. I’ll just put a washer under the one wing nut tomorrow (can’t find the one that came with the shade, probably rolled under something when I dropped it).

    And no more lace half-curtains. They just make my windows look cluttered, somehow.

  203. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Further to heat exhaustion:

    So I was wondering why it only took 25 minutes of lawn mowing in mid 80s weather today to make me ill. Well, lo and behold, beta blockers can significantly increase the risk (these are drugs taken for heart disease to slow the beating of the heart and stuff) and bring it on much earlier than for others. PZ and others on these drugs please note this for your own sake too.

    I’m going to be sure to have plenty of Gatorade when I’m outdoors working and to take frequent breaks and wear a sun hat.

  204. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Let us know if you need Pharyngufund help, Ing. Someone made a sizeable donation to the kitty recently.

  205. says

    Thanks, Pteryxx, that is what she’s doing. Esme is rather desperate to get out of the condo right now and won’t eat or drink. I did let her out for shoulder rides to go get salad, but once I put her back in the condo, she ran right down the ladder to the ratlets again. I hope she calms down a bit tomorrow.

    Much baby squeakin’ be going on.

  206. Vilém Saptar says

    Catching up,
     
    Congratulations to Audley(belated), skeptifem and Caine/Esme!*idyllic day + confetti*
     
    Gilliel,
    Great to hear!
     
    Tony,
    You’re a Nexus fan, eh?
     
    Ing,
    Sorry to hear that. Hope things turn around soon.
     
    Josh,
    No anecdotes, but advice from no personal experience: have it looked at maybe?
     
    Sophia,
    Tough break. Good to see you dealing-with amazingly!
     
    I’m still terribly conflicted and my mind’s in pieces. Had applied for a B.Sc at uni here and I meet their admission criteria and they have a deadline for admissions in two days.
    If I haven’t made up my mind by then, and later decide I want to go to college, I’ll have wasted another year.
    Shit.

  207. Owlmirror says

    @carbonfox:

    [list of acts of cruel sexism and mysogyny]

    He doesn’t seem intentionally malicious about it, just clueless.

    Intent is not magic. Cruel people can be charming, and say horrible things with politeness or a lighthearted laugh. He does not want a girlfriend; he wants a fucktoy he can abuse.

    Dan Savage would say: DTMF

  208. says

    Ing:

    I am straining my mind to see how someone could do this unintentionally.

    No one does that shit unintentionally and I am so tired of assholes (not you, of course, speaking generally) making excuses for such behaviour.

    If someone is casually all “bitches this” and “whores that”, at the core, they are bitches ain’t shit.

  209. theophontes (坏蛋) says

    @ carbonfox

    That guy sounds like a completely irremediable arsehole.

    Dump that asshole.

    seconded, thirdedn-thed
    (Life is too short, don’t waste time on shitty humans.)

  210. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    Carbonfox,

    Seriously, dump him now. He’s grooming you. I’ve been there done that. It’s not pretty or pleasant. He’s an abuser. This is not his first time doing this. This is all intentionally on his part to make sure you are meek enough, that you will accept his shit and not fight back.

    Run. Now.

    Block him every way possible. Don’t give him an inch.

    Right now I have bets on him harassing you when you dump him. Do you have family/friends to help you out? Stay over with you or to stay with while getting a restraining order etc if this happens?

  211. says

    @carbonfox, NO, NO, NO!!!! This is not “normal for straight men”. My bloke is nothing like that. None of my straight boy exes were anything like that. None of my straight male friends are like that. My Dad was nothing like that. Not all straight men are sexist shits. And yes, I’m in with the DTMFA contingent.

    @Vilém, I replied to you somewhere or other, but the quick gist was: since you are conflicted about this, can you go part-way? Maybe do your bachelor’s part-time for a year or two, while you keep working and save up some cash?

    @Caine, congrats on the ratbabbies!

  212. says

    @AR:

    Yep, we’re OK with the ones that transmit Bubonic plague, but we hate the ones that look like wild Norway rats.

    Not me. I’m not a big rat fan at the best of times, but the black ones seriously give me the shudders.

    I’m not dissing the rat-fans; they’re just not for me. Nor am I a dog person, or a rabbit person. If I didn’t have cats, I’d like to keep birds, ferrets, lizards or snakes.

  213. Owlmirror says

    @carbonfox:

    If you bring up any of what you wrote in #247 with him directly as being problematic, I think the next page in the MRA/PUA playbook is to make it your problem: “Oh, I didn’t realize that you were so sensitive/an ice queen/frigid/humourless.” Shit like that.

    Reject it. The problem is with him, not you.

    Is it possible that he’s just foul-mouthed and uninhibited, and is just blind to the inherent misogyny of his actions and words? Well, maybe. Maybe he’ll even express remorse, and resolve to mend his ways.

    Eh. Maybe monkeys will fly out of his butt, too. He’ll probably act like he’s entitled to be foul-mouthed and uninhibited, no matter what.

  214. Sophia, Michelin-starred General of the First Mediterranean Iron Chef Batallion says

    Ratlets – SQUEE! Adorable little squishies of awesome!
    Oddly reminiscent of my little guy when he was freshly squeezed, what with the pink squishiness. :P

  215. says

    carbonfox: Dump him. And don’t listen to any bullshit about etiquette, dump him by phone or better yet online, somewhere where you have the power to immediately shut him up. Before you do this, talk to anyone he might try to go through to get to you and say that if he calls to (however they prefer) tell him where to shove it. When you dump him, tell him you don’t appreciate the thinly-veiled insults, and if his response is ANYTHING but an immediate apology — and if you, say, email him and he phones you to try and get some sort of ‘personal’ value — block him.

    Immediately after that, go out for the day, and go somewhere you don’t normally go. If you have a nice large regional or state park or some such around, go there and take a nice long hike. That will help you avoid dealing with him if he tries to add even more ‘personal’ to the equation.

    Any attempt for him to talk to you in person, or to even talk to you on the phone if you use text, is an attempt for him to display emotion and try to pull on your heartstrings. Don’t do it. When a guy complains about the woman who dumped him by email, he’s complaining about how he wasn’t able to beg and plead and tug on her emotional strings to get her to recant.

  216. says

    Also, even if he apologizes, keep him dumped. Apology is just a measure of whether he’s worth interacting with in general, which he will prove by both apologizing and not treating you as second-class because he’s been denied further sexual relations with you.

    Please note also that I highly doubt he’s even going to apologize, much less treat you as a friend.

  217. Sophia, Michelin-starred General of the First Mediterranean Iron Chef Batallion says

    Wow… I’m actually feeling pretty crappy now. Seems I -might- actually just have really shitty luck when it comes to guys, as most of them I’ve talked to have been a little bit like that. I don’t think I’ve ever met one who seemed completely respectful or untainted by societal prejudices.

    Am I really that unlucky, or is society just as bad as I think it is? :|

  218. Brad says

    Does anybody have what Stef McGraw posted and what RW Commented on that lead into ERV’s “Bad Form” post?

  219. says

    Hi there
    I think I just looked like a complete idiot while shopping. I saw those amazing 3D postcards and decided to get one for #1 as a birthday card. Now, by virtue of the universe being a malicious bastard they had none of the animals I know she loves best. No rabbits or flamingos. Several cats but no black and white one. So I had a hard time picking an animal. Furthermore there are two kinds of cards: one only has the 3D effect, the other has a “movement” effect, which makes the whole picture just lower quality and less “layered”. So I wanted one without movement.
    I spent a full 5 minutes wipping from one foot to the other in front of the cards rack :)

    carbonfox
    What everybody else said. That guy is grooming you. He’s trying to lower your self-esteem, making you feel like you don’t deserve and decent treatment (remember, you came here thinking that this was perfectly normal and something you just had to put up with!) and are lucky to have him at all.
    Dump.
    Him.
    Now.
    As long as you are still free, have people who care about you (like your ex) and a place of your own.

    Sophia
    I’m sorry that you have to go through this.
    As for the guys: They’re all affected by living in a sexist, misogynist and racist etc. society. That’s not the problem. The question is whether they’re willing to listen, learn and change.

    *hugs* to Audley and DF
    I managed to fall down the stairs with #1 ;)

  220. Esteleth, Raging Dyke of Fuck Mountain says

    Awakened at 6 am by neighbor’s subwoofer.

    ESTELETH SMASH

  221. Esteleth, Raging Dyke of Fuck Mountain says

    Audley,
    My mom had to enter the driver seat of a VW Beetle from the passenger side door while nine months pregnant with me (in January, so add heavy coats).

  222. says

    Shit shit shit
    I’m making mint sirup and I was going to drain the mixture of water, sugar, mint and lemon juice now. So I put a colander on aplastic dish and started to pour the stuff into it. Unfortunatel the plastic dish turned out to be another colander equal in size, coulou and shape to my plastic dishes, only with holes.

    pelamun
    Good luck with the meeting.
    I think it’s time for people to realize that we can’t have the eierlegende Wollmichlsau.

  223. Gen, Uppity Ingrate. says

    @carbonfox, NO, NO, NO!!!! This is not “normal for straight men”. My bloke is nothing like that. None of my straight boy exes were anything like that. None of my straight male friends are like that. My Dad was nothing like that. Not all straight men are sexist shits.

    What Alethea said. Straight men are NOT like that. What he’s doing is NOT okay, not even within shouting distance of being okay. You deserve better.

    Caine Oh wow, for little thingies that are so damn ugly they sure are ceeyuuuute. Squeeeeeeee!

    Sophia I’m sorry for what you’re going through. Good luck.

    I don’t think I’ve ever met one who seemed completely respectful or untainted by societal prejudices.

    Am I really that unlucky, or is society just as bad as I think it is? :|

    Society IS sick, yes, and none of us escape unscathed. That much is very true. Like Giliell said, it’s about is he (whoever “he” might be) mature enough to confront his privilege and at least try?

  224. opposablethumbs says

    carbonfox, n+1-ing all of the above. And definitely, definitely take the advice several people have given above about forestalling his response which will probably take the form of nagging, texting, emailing, phoning, turning up at your door etc. etc. He sounds like seriously bad news, and I hope you get free of him at the earliest opportunity (definitely don’t be alone with him at any time either when you tell him or after; he’ll only try to browbeat you).

  225. Gen, Uppity Ingrate. says

    carbonfox – IF (and that’s a big if that’s entirely up to you, trust your instincts on this!) you think that this guy is salvageable, you could try to give him Melissa McEwan’s The Terrible Bargain we have regretfully struck to read as a springboard for discussion and maybe base your decision (to dump his ass or to see if he’s willing to try to be better than society expects him to be) on his reaction to that.

    It could be that he’s acting this way because in this fucked up culture we have of toxic masculinity, this is maybe what he thinks he *should* be acting like to be a Real Man ™

    It *could* be that if you give him the space to NOT have to constantly compete in homo-social and Patriarchy Compliant approval, he MIGHT realize that being A Man ™ is not something others bestow upon you, it is something you can choose and define for yourself.

    Like I said, this is just a possiblity and trust your fear instincts. If there is ANY doubt AT ALL, get out and be safe.

  226. says

    Please note also that I highly doubt he’s even going to apologize, much less treat you as a friend.

    That would be optimal, but in my expreince manipulators get downright pathetic when you cut them out of your life. Usually by crying and whining until a normal person feels cruel for saying “no”.

  227. John Morales says

    carbonfox,

    Last week, a woman started texting him; she sent him naked photos, which didn’t bother me, until he started talking about getting and erection to them and forwarding them to his friends.

    But you’re special in his eyes, right?

    Heed the Horde!

  228. says

    com

    Citation seriously fucking needed.

    My anecdata indicate the exact opposite.

    oh my, not your precious fucking anecdotes! I better scramble to find information I found forever ago *just for you*! I’m sick all the god damned time but I’m supposed to make you a priority? I did my research to make my own decisions, and I’ve already gotten way more bullshit than I would prefer when I was looking for support. I only had to bring it up because someone told me what to do in the first place. You can look into this shit your fucking self- there are plenty of perfectly valid reasons to choose non-medical interventions as a primary course of action, and you don’t know much about my circumstances in this pregnancy because it isn’t any of your business.

    You know what else? Its pretty hard for me to argue for my reasons for what I am choosing without sounding judgmental of other pregnant women here who are making different choices, and I am trying to avoid that because it is just a shitty thing to do. Maybe you could fuck right off, pretty please?

  229. says

    I don’t think I am ready to talk about this shit with other people. I knew that no matter what I decided to do someone would say I was doing it wrong, but I didn’t think it would bother me so much right now. Sorry I shared.

    enjoy the rest of the thread.

  230. says

    I only had to bring it up because someone told me what to do in the first place.

    Just for the record: I didn’t do that. I suggested you shouldn’t limit your options beforehand and I backed off as soon as I saw that we would be at loggerheads if we actually engaged in this discussion, which I wouldn’t find fair because you’re pregnant and I’m not so I don’t have anything at stake here.

  231. says

    Beatrice,
    I wish I knew. Every once in a while, Amazon emails me to let me know that they can’t find PZ’s book, but I’ll get it eventually. It’s gotten to the point where they’ve refunded my shipping costs, so I’m not complaining. :)

  232. says

    Giliell

    I went and read the transcripts, and had one facepalm after the other.

    Regarding renewable energy: yeah the big question right now is whether we should build all these uber expensive power lines, or maybe just try to use localised energy sources. But every time you try to construct a local wind park, you get hordes of NIMBYs descending upon you…

    The meeting was actually today, and it might not be as controversial since the power line company has indicated it might drop certain controversial plans.. we’ll see..

  233. Esteleth, Raging Dyke of Fuck Mountain says

    Erülóra Maikalambe:
    Tie between “Love is the Plan the Plan is Death” by Tiptree and “Those Who Walk Away from Omelas” by Le Guin.

  234. Esteleth, Raging Dyke of Fuck Mountain says

    I also like “Houston Houston Do You Read” (also by Tiptree)

    Sorry, I just like Tiptree. *shrug*

  235. Esteleth, Raging Dyke of Fuck Mountain says

    throwaway:
    And exactly 3 people are surprised.

    That said, I am largely in agreement with what he said.

  236. says

    Anderson Cooper is officially out now.

    I’ve wondered about that in the past. None of my business, of course, just a passing thought. Good for him for feeling comfortable being open about it, and for being comfortable with himself. It’s just sad that it’s even a topic of conversation. I long for the day when somebody’s orientation or gender identity are as less interesting than what’s on their iPod.

  237. throwaway says

    For his sake I really hope he’s right that it doesn’t compromise his journalism as far as who is willing to be interviewed, or that it puts him in any more danger (is that even possible given his past embeddedness?)

    I think it will also give a pretty good barometer of how far we’ve come about openly gay celebrities. I remember the strong backlash against Ellen Degeneres and Rosie O’donnel, how they were lambasted. I’m betting that this announcement doesn’t bring as much raucous.

  238. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    Sophie,

    Wow… I’m actually feeling pretty crappy now. Seems I -might- actually just have really shitty luck when it comes to guys, as most of them I’ve talked to have been a little bit like that. I don’t think I’ve ever met one who seemed completely respectful or untainted by societal prejudices.

    Am I really that unlucky, or is society just as bad as I think it is? :|

    There’s a difference between the behavior of carbonfox’s (hopefully soon to be ex) boyfriend and not “completely respectful or untainted by societal prejudiced”.

    Huge difference.

    The latter is still saying sexist words, phrases or jokes. Still believing in stupid gender norms. Usually, most people will start working on changing it once you bring it to their attention. It is really hard to stop. My Roomie and former boyfriend is still working on not being a sexist douche. I’m working on it too, I’ve just been working on it longer. Roomie has issues with gender norms and low esteem because of the stupid shit our society perpetuates. He’s 6 foot tall, strong and athletic, what possible hang ups could he have? Why, his uncircumcised and has been ridiculed because of that. Men claiming it to be weird and women saying it’s clean and ugly. He also can’t grow a beard well and his legs have barely any hair, so he was teased for being a “girly girl who shaves their legs”. It’s all a bunch of bullshit of course but it takes a lifetime to get over and get better. He’s unquestionably pro-choice and not a rape apologist but he still does and says stupid shit. He’s just willing to listen, apologize and most importantly, work on changing.

    The former is grooming to be her abuser by putting her in her place, making her aware of how ugly she is and how lucky she is to have him, paving the way to lower her self esteem, making it so she can’t fight back or leave and him feel to cheat and abuse at his will. There is no way that the behavior carbonfox describes is anything but grooming. I’ve been groomed. I’ve been abused. That behavior is giant red fucking flags that say danger run away quickly.

    TL;DR : Everyone is sexist. Very few are abusers. That’s the difference.

  239. says

    Josh (way up there):

    … but we both know our limits.

    You’re sweet, but I’m still blaming myself for a couple of reasons:
    1) I’ve always been prone to feeling the symptoms of dehydration. I’ve known this for years.
    2) The one piece of advice that my doc gave me to follow above all else was to make sure that I’m constantly consuming water. Dehydration can cause some scary shit during pregnancy: everything from severe abdominal cramps to early labor.

    I usually keep one of those little Britta water bottles with me so I can sip as I go*, but like an idiot, I forgot it at home yesterday. So, even though I’m feeling 100% today, NEVER AGAIN WILL I FORGET MY WATER BOTTLE.

    *It’s also best to avoid bottled water not just ‘cos whoa that’s incredibly bad for the environment, but that shit is pretty much unregulated, so you have no idea what’s floating around in there. I’ve got good municipal water, so I’m good to go.

  240. says

    What’s your favorite sci-fi short story?

    “The Cold Equations.”

    No, I lied. I HATE THAT STORY. With a cold, logical, heartless passion.

  241. chigau (違う) says

    I can’t pick just one short story but Omelas is on the list.
    And most Tiptree.
    And most of the Dangerous Visions “trilogy”.
    And Clarke’s The Nine Billion Names of God.
    and
    and
    and

  242. Ogvorbis: I Am ObtuseMan says

    Hello.

    I am back.

    I flew home yesterday (via Minneapolis and Detroit (and yes, I kept an eye out for professor Myers as I walked through the Minneapolis airport (no, I did not see him (and yes, I know the chances were incredibly slim)))). I am tired.

    So what did I miss?

  243. opposablethumbs says

    Bro Og! Good to see you! And not singed, I hope. ::joins in tackle hug::

  244. Ogvorbis: I Am ObtuseMan says

    *tackle hug!*

    Falls over. Groans in mild pain.

    Happy to be back.

    I am exhausted.

    Fourteen straight days of 16 hours (with two 1/2 hour breaks shown on the CTR). Sleeping in a tent. 105F during the day, 60F at night (but it really is a dry heat). Food wasn’t too bad — salty and fatty, but they are trying to hit 5,000 to 6,000 kilocalories per day so the engine and hand crews can keep going. And I was less than 100 miles from some absolutely classic Morrison Formation exposures and couldn’t get there. Sigh.

  245. says

    The Professor’s Teddy Bear by Theodore Sturgeon
    I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream by Harlan Ellison
    I Sing the Body Electric by Ray Bradbury
    We Can Remember It For You Wholesale by Philip K. Dick
    A Sound of Thunder by Ray Bradbury

    That’s only what comes to mind immediately.

  246. Ogvorbis: I Am ObtuseMan says

    Thank you all for the hugs and pouncing.

    I am heading up to bed for a nap.

    Good afternoon, all.

  247. Ogvorbis: I Am ObtuseMan says

    You don’t have to go right back to work, do you? I can’t imagine going straight back to work after a two week schedule like that.

    I have two days of R&R. Which are also my normal days off. But I did work a full week before I got called, which means that I actually worked 19 straight days.

    I really am tired.

    Nap time.

  248. Muse says

    Ogvorbis – good to see you back.

    We posted some information about Rhinebeck. You should try and come this year!

  249. Ogvorbis: I Am ObtuseMan says

    By the by, the part about falling over and groaning was a comment on my physical exhaustion, not you and the Darkspawn.

  250. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    *transport tankard of welcome home grog to Ogvorbis*

  251. Ze Madmax says

    On SF short stories:
    How It Happened and Spell My Name With an S, by Isaac Asimov
    There Will Come Soft Rains, by Ray Bradbury

  252. says

    “Repent, Harlequin!” Said the Ticktockman. Harlan Ellison.

    The Swarm. Bruce Sterling. (a marvelous reply to post-humanism, if you haven’t heard of it.)

    Would A few notes on the Culture by Iain Banks count as a short story? Maybe not, it’s more world-building.

  253. ImaginesABeach says

    Skeptifem –

    Late to the party, but you asked about childbirth/baby classes. It has been a few years, but the ones that I would recommend for all new parents are the “what the hell do I do now” ones. If you plan to try nursing, a class is helpful, especially because they will give you resources if it does not go smoothly at first. Even if you have been around babies, the newborn care ones are good. And ask your healthcare provider for a birth class that goes along with your preferred birth experience. When I had GirlChild, I wasn’t wise enough to shop around for the right for me class. My experience with BoyChild was better, in part due to a different class.

  254. says

    Would A few notes on the Culture by Iain Banks count as a short story? Maybe not, it’s more world-building.

    Well, at this point world-building is what I’m doing. Paying attention to how people who were rather successful at it went about it wouldn’t hurt. And I sure as hell have a lot of world(s) left to build. So I’ll bookmark it and read it, but it probably won’t go toward the results of my informal poll.

    Truth is, this whole project of mine up to this point has been just mental masturbation over what is simply a small bit of scenery to most writers and readers. But it’s the part that interests me the most, and I’m only doing it for me.

  255. opposablethumbs says

    Erülóra Maikalambe, don’t suppose you fancy putting them all into a list and maybe sticking it on the Wiki, do you? Just that I’ve got two deadlines tomorrow and next day, and it’s evening here already and I want to remind myself of all the ones I’ve read before and read the ones I haven’t! And I bet a lot of other people would too. Please?

  256. says

    opposablethumbs

    don’t suppose you fancy putting them all into a list and maybe sticking it on the Wiki, do you?

    Sure. I have an account on the wiki, I just need to go dust it off.

  257. cicely (WHAT sammich, Officer? I know nothing about no sammich.) says

    carbonfox, welcome in!

    Re “smart and fairly decent fellow”, my thought is…run fast, run far. Gendered insults…and he certainly doesn’t seem to regard your feelings on matters involving sex as important, and the “never had sex with a super-hot woman” thing sounds suspiciously like negging. Aside from this/these; this woman who sent him nude pics—did she give him permission to share those pics with his friends? I’m guessing…probably not.

    Sounds like he’s fully vested in the “women are just sexbots” theory. Bail.

    And don’t forget to un-Friend him on FB.

    As for the guys: They’re all affected by living in a sexist, misogynist and racist etc. society. That’s not the problem. The question is whether they’re willing to listen, learn and change.

    This.

    who the fuck sets off fireworks on the first of july? after 10 pm? when there are EIGHT wildfires burning?

    I’m guessing, the same people who were setting them off on the 29th of June, long into the night.

    Ogvorbis, welcome home! *booze&bacon*

    Hard to pin down a favorite short story. I really like a lot of the ones mentioned already by others, and would add Ellison’s The Deathbird (an important point on my road to deconversion from Xianity) and Delany’s Time Considered as a Helix of Semi-Precious Stones. Oh, and Overtime by Stross.

    Finally managed to wrestle the buggy as fuck online application system to the ground and shove my unemployment claim down it’s throat.

    Huzzah! Pwn that fucker!!
    -

  258. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    I love Omelas, I like The Cold Equations and The Nothing Equation both by Tom Godwin (mostly because I get the impression that he was writing sci-fi set in space while dealing with a profound terror of space, which I relate to, since all my good writing comes from fear), I love “The Last Question,” “There Will Come Soft Rains,” and “All Summer In A Day.” (The best part of “There Will Come Soft Rains” was the silhouette of the kids with the ball.) “A Birthday” by Esther Freisner is good. I’m trying to think – most of my favorite short fiction is devastating and nightmarish. That story with “every part of you belongs to you,” if it counts as sci-fi, which I don’t think it necessarily does.

  259. says

    The heck? Can we not post links at all any more? It keeps getting eated. Anyway, I was trying to say I’ll post a link to the short story list on the Books page. So just search the wiki for “Books” later, mkay?

  260. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    Also, hello. I’ve taken FTB off my blocksite hesitantly in hopes that, now that I’ve detached a little from the bullshit on the Misogynists thread, I can stick around in TET and TZT not get dragged into shit on other threads. I tried to catch up with events on those threads but discovered that it was not a good idea yet. I am fully prepared to flounce again if necessary. That said, *hugs to everybody* and YAY CAINE RATLETS! and YAY SKEPTIFEM BABIES! (I hope you do see this at least.) And now, time to finish folding my clothes and then take my walk.

  261. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    Oh, and carbonfox, it might sound like piling on at this point, but seriously, run and don’t look back. Everyone is right. He is grooming you. And for what it’s worth, I wouldn’t give a second thought to trying to change him, convince him, or relate to him in a social fashion. It is not your job to do that.

  262. says

    The best part of “There Will Come Soft Rains” was the silhouette of the kids with the ball.

    That part almost makes me vomit every time. I have this very visceral reaction to even implied deaths of children. Seems to have gotten even worse since becoming a parent. Can’t explain it any better than my intense phobia of spiders. I have no trauma to speak of relating to that. It’s just there.

  263. says

    Hello Cipher!

    I gotta admit, I love There Will Come Soft Rains for two reasons: Bradbury captures that hollow feeling of incredible lonliness perfectly and I realized the first time I read it that I felt really bad for the house.

    That’s amazing.

  264. cicely (WHAT sammich, Officer? I know nothing about no sammich.) says

    And from the Epic Bestseller Alien Pregnant by Elvis, “Is Your Coworker a Space Alien?” by Eluki bes Shahar, and “Those Eyes” by David Brin.
    -

  265. says

    PZ:

    “Repent, Harlequin!” Said the Ticktockman. Harlan Ellison.

    Oooh, that one too. I’ll add:

    That Hell-Bound Train by Robert Bloch
    Slow Sculpture by Theodore Sturgeon
    The Men Who Murdered Mohammed by Alfred Bester
    Hothouse by Brian Aldiss

    This could go on forever…

  266. cicely (WHAT sammich, Officer? I know nothing about no sammich.) says

    Is anybody else about to explode from excitement that Stross’ The Apocalypse Codex is about to hit?)

    *hug* for Cipher.
    -

  267. Beatrice says

    *bookmarks this incarnation of TET for all the great reading suggestions*

  268. opposablethumbs says

    I’ll post a link to the short story list on the Books page.

    Great! Thank you!!!

  269. Rey Fox says

    I’ve managed to make it all the way to the final boss in Portal 2 without my mouse, but the boss is requiring enough precision that I can’t do it with the touchpad (which I cannot use at the same time as the keys). I left my mouse at home, and I don’t go home for two more days.

    Argh.

  270. opposablethumbs says

    There’s one – somebody will probably know the title – about a bloke trapped inside some sort of prison where all the inmates are looked after by robots, and he’s the last one left alive in the world but the robots just go on keeping him locked up as if there were still a functioning society outside. Not as good as Soft Rains, I think, but they both have something in common that comes close to throwing me out of the story; the robots keep
    .
    shit, possible trigger here
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    running the prison creche, although all the cribs are full of bones
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    trigger ends
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    But the thing that throws me out of stories like this is just that for these robots – or the house – to work they’d have to have sensors that tell them where the inhabitants are.

    So they’d “know” the inhabitants weren’t there any more, and go into standby mode or something.
    /probably pompous, pettifogging, punctilious and pernickety pedantry

  271. Esteleth, Raging Dyke of Fuck Mountain says

    Oggie!!!

    *tacklehugkittensrattiespiecakegrog*

    Other excellent short stories: “Nightfall” by Asimov (later expanded into a novel, also excellent), “Coming of Age in Karhide” by Le Guin (more or less exactly what it says on the tin in content), “The Matter of Seggri” also by Le Guin (more of a novella, but excellent), and “Old Music and the Slave Women” also also by Le Guin.

    Basically, if it is by Le Guin, read that shit.

    Read one the other day that made me all weepy, so I had to look it up: “With Delicate Mad Hands” by Tiptree. Excellent, excellent story. IMO one of Tiptree’s best.

    Can we have an “excellent SF novels” thread?

    My suggestions for those:
    The Dispossessed by Le Guin
    The Left Hand of Darknes by Le Guin
    The Ugly Little Boy by Asimov
    China Mountain Zhang by Maureen McHugh

  272. says

    Link added to Books page with everything mentioned up until 2:20pm Central US that I could manage to look up.

    Ing
    Do you happen to remember the name of the author of “The Midwife’s Gift”?

  273. Sili says

    Yeah, it’s getting hard to keep up with. Especially since I insist on alphabetizing by author and title.

    Isn’t that the sorta thing the software is supposed to do for you?

  274. Esteleth, Raging Dyke of Fuck Mountain says

    *spits*

    Was working with a calcein solution (in DMSO, of course) and now I’ve got that DMSO taste in my mouth.

    Yech.

    Fortunately, calcein is non-toxic. I guess some of my cells will fluoresce at 495 nm.

  275. says

    shit, possible trigger here

    And I still read it. It’s okay. I’m going to shake it off by looking at pics on my iPhone. Can I just take a moment to brag about what an awesome toddler I have? She now insists on sitting on my lap when I play Minecraft and making me go hang out in the sheep pen. “I wanna see the sheep. Bah! Bah!” “Oh no, it’s getting dark!”

  276. says

    Isn’t that the sorta thing the software is supposed to do for you?

    It would if I put it in a spreadsheet and put authors in one column and titles in another. You know, like I should have done from the start, if I had taken a second to realize just how many responses there’d be from a group like this. Instead I put it in a word processor. Like the numskull I usually am.

  277. Esteleth, Raging Dyke of Fuck Mountain says

    EM, why don’t you use BibNote? It is freeware and designed to keep track of publications. You can even embed ISSN codings and make them clickable to online databases.

  278. Esteleth, Raging Dyke of Fuck Mountain says

    If you need a hand migrating them over, I’ve got some free time on my hands and a copy of BibNote (also EndNote, which is more powerful but $$$)

  279. says

    Opposablethumbs,
    Looking back now, yeah the automated parts would probably have sensors if Soft Rains was written today. But as it was, the house was largely on timers, which makes sense for the time period it was written.

    (Except for the “mice” that did the sweeping up, but all of the food prep and entertainment was done on a strict schedule.)

  280. says

    Feel free, Esteleth. I’ve compiled all the recommendations before your #387 over at the wiki. I can’t seem to link to it right now, but if you google “Pharyngula Wiki” it should be the first hit (should be a wikia page). From there, do a search on Books, and you’ll see a link at the bottom of that page.

  281. cm's changeable moniker says

    Skeptifem, apologies, my #200 was way too sharp, and I’m sorry that it pissed you off.

    However you choose to go, I hope things go well for you.

    And with that, I will fuck right off momentarily …

  282. cm's changeable moniker says

    … because going back to a relevant thread I found:

    a nine letter word using O,L,I,D,G,O,E,E and D.

    FossilFishy, what was it?!! The best I came up with was “de-goolied”.

    (“Goolies” is UK slang for testicles.)

    *F-ingRO for real now*

  283. says

    Good evening

    Relative Ogvorbis!!!!!
    Hmmm…
    *puts an insulated mug with hot chocolate on bedside table*

    Welcome back

    Erülora
    It’s bad when they figure out what a computer is for. Mine are usually begging me to search for animal pictures (they can confidently identify an okapi, that’s something to be proud of).

    ++++
    Talking about SciFi and babbies, why on earth are women in Startrek still giving birth? I mean, leaving aside that they should have invented some fine artificial uterus by then, why are they giving birth?
    They are able to transplant a human fetus into a Bayoran uterus in an emergency in a shuttle but women are still pushing melons through mouseholes? Hey, you have transporters, darlings!

  284. Tony... therefore God says

    Any book lovers:
    I’m curious about how you all determine the quality of the stories you read. Vague question, I know, so here’s an illustration (hopefully) of where I’m coming from.
    I’ve always been better able to follow stories better when they’re combined in a visual/written media (comic books, graphic novels and such). I can tease apart what elements I like and don’t like with relative ease. However, books and novels are quite a bit more difficult. I know I get wrapped up in smaller details that aren’t terribly important to the quality of the story. For instance, my mind automatically starts trying to visualize what the characters look like, or what they’re doing physically, or specific location that’s described in the book. When I do that though, I get distracted from the actual story. More importantly, this isn’t a quick process. It’s like I’m world building. With each new piece of the puzzle, my brain is trying to create a visual of what this world and its inhabitants look like. It’s almost like watching a movie and something so monumentally stupid occurs that your disbelief is no longer suspended. When (if, in some cases) I do finish a book, it’s difficult to judge the quality of the story (in part because of being pulled in and out of tale). I wonder if I just have a shorter attention span than others (maybe short stories are more my style), or if my mind is just so geared towards visual/written stories than other forms are more difficult to process.
    (as a teen, I read Stephen King’s ‘IT’, and this is the earliest case I remember of taking a long time to finish reading a book and realizing that I was building the world as I read. I’m pretty certain-though it is decades later-that I wouldn’t really have been able to judge the book by the time I finished it)

    Does any of that make sense?

  285. says

    I’m sorry it’s The Midwife’s TEMPTATION, not gift. It’s by Michael L. McComas.

    I really like it but it’s only in a few anthology books. If the copyright wasn’t such a sticky issue I’d just transcribe it, it’s only two pages long

  286. says

    Talking about SciFi and babbies, why on earth are women in Startrek still giving birth? I mean, leaving aside that they should have invented some fine artificial uterus by then, why are they giving birth?
    They are able to transplant a human fetus into a Bayoran uterus in an emergency in a shuttle but women are still pushing melons through mouseholes? Hey, you have transporters, darlings!

    Considering they can repair Picard from Borg modification I’d say it’d be more reasonable to believe that they just C-section all births….

  287. birgerjohansson says

    NB! Important for planning strategies for change!
    “Women less likely to endorse independence in gender-unequal societies” http://phys.org/news/2012-07-women-endorse-independence-gender-unequal-societies.html
    Women in countries with great gender inequality are more likely than men to support authoritarian values (see link for details)
    — — — — —
    Go, rats! Naked mole rat may hold the secret to long life http://phys.org/news/2012-07-naked-mole-rat-secret-life.html
    I want a virus vector producing more NRG-1 !
    Andf if I cannot get that, I want a virus vector for producing the antifreeze the Alaskan beetle uses, so I can hibernate a couple of centuries.
    — — — — —
    Women infected with Toxoplasma gondii have increased risk of attempting suicide: study http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-07-women-infected-toxoplasma-gondii-suicide.html …according to a new study of more than 45,000 women in Denmark.
    This pathogen turns up wherever I go! (In theory, it might rival rabies in destructive power even though it kills indirectly)

  288. Pteryxx says

    Esteleth: I’ve been detoxing from the misogyny threads with Caine’s ratlet pics and by breeding baby sheep in Minecraft. They’re the cutest little square things. (And they go ‘beeeee’!)

  289. birgerjohansson says

    I swear I hadn’t read the comments about the rats before posting. Ratsplaining indeed!
    — — — — — — —
    Most popular German RPG…backfire…
    Panzerfaust blowing up in the face?
    — — — — — — —
    Sweden, where everything is back to front.
    The conservatives want to slash spending on defence, the other parties want to increase it.
    — — — — —
    “Norway rats”
    Don’t worry. Breivik is not going to be released this side 2100.
    — — — — — — —
    Shorter SF: “The Voices Of Time”

  290. says

    Giliell:

    why are they giving birth?

    Easy. The pain of giving birth is woman’s lot, god said so. Besides, you can’t actually love or bond with the little alien unless you go through absolute hell to bring it into the ‘verse. Ya know, same old.

  291. dianne says

    So, could anyone tell a very threadrupt and blogrupt regular what the scoop is with thunderdood? Did he get kicked off FTB? Is that even possible?

  292. says

    Ing
    There are a few episodes where women go into labour. Keiko gives birth in the fucking bar assisted by Whorf during one of the many times the ship is taken over by somebody else. OK, they couldn’t get into the medical bay in that situation, but you’d never wait until labour starts for beaming it out. You’d monitor the fetus carefully and easily and do it at around week 38 or something like that.
    It just doesn’t make sense.

  293. Tony ...listen, learn, change says

    carbonfox:
    Welcome!
    As to your situation, I’m with everyone else: dump him

    ~~

    The response to carbonfox’s query makes me wonder if we would all be accused of groupthink/hivemind again…because everyone reaching the same conclusion could *only* be due to a hive mind.

    ~~

    Vilem Saptar:
    Not necessarily a Nexus fan, but for the price and its various options, it seems like a good deal. Do you have any opinion either way about it? Anything bad I’m not aware of?

    ~~

    Giliell:
    The question is whether they’re willing to listen, learn and change.

    This is so QFT, it has inspired me to change my ‘nym…thank you!

    ~~
    Erülóra Maikalambe:
    I long for the day when somebody’s orientation or gender identity are as less interesting than what’s on their iPod.

    I second that!
    To be able to walk down the street holding my boyfriends hand without any nosy glances or condemning stares… ah someday.

    ~~
    Audley:
    *It’s also best to avoid bottled water not just ‘cos whoa that’s incredibly bad for the environment, but that shit is pretty much unregulated, so you have no idea what’s floating around in there. I’ve got good municipal water, so I’m good to go.

    Damn.
    I never thought about bottle water like that. I have a Brita pitcher that I use for water at home, but I occasionally buy bottle water (like when I go to the gym). That makes me wonder what they put in bottled water…

  294. Tony ...listen, learn, change says

    dianne @412:
    Thunderf00t is indeed gone.
    Ed Brayton posted about it yesterday .
    (Greg Laden is gone as well)

  295. says

    Caine
    Yeah, I just had a very wonderful friend make the mind-numbing comment “if women don’t want to give birth (and choose a c-section for no other reason that they want one) they should not have children”.
    I asked her if that held true for the daddies as well and that I don’t consider it to be my business what other women do.
    I think I got her thinking.
    I would have thought they were better at thinking in 300 years.
    But it’s probably because people writing the stuff live here and now. It’s fascinating and depressing how the most unthinkable thing in fiction seems to be the end of patriarchy. The end of planet earth? No problem! Suspend all the laws of physics? No big deal. Have women who are treated as equals and not as pretty fuck-toys (or in many cases, have women at all)? Are you mad???

    Erülora
    Too many links?

  296. KG says

    Basically, if it is by Le Guin, read that shit. – Esteleth

    Agreed – I’d add the novel The Lathe of Heaven to those you specifically mention.

    Kim Stanley Robinson’s Mars trilogy has a lot of interesting socio-political stuff, and is well written (though not in Le Guin’s class); Cordwainer Smith’s Norstrilia is unforgettably weird; Earth Abides by George R. Stewart is my favourite post-disaster novel, obviously informed by considerable ecological knowledge, although rather gender-essentialist; Swastika Night by Katharine Burdekin, writing under the pseudonym Murray Constantine in 1937, brilliantly shows the logical end result of misogyny and fascism – women as livestock. It’s like the society depicted in Margaret Atwood’s The Handmaid’s Tale (another first-rate SF novel, whether or not Atwood wants to identify it as such) after several centuries. Gibson and Sterling’s The Difference Engine is splendid steampunk. Oh, and Kurt Vonnegut (The Sirens of Titan, slaughterhouse Five, Galapagos, above all Cat’s Cradle.

    Then there’s the better-known “classics” like Wells (The Time Machine and The Island of Doctor Moreau are my favourites – in some of the others, Wells’ creepy eugenicist and racist views become evident), and Huxley (whose Brave New World was written in response to Wells’s utopianism), and Orwell (again, 1984‘s often not counted as SF, but it clearly is, in the way it explores the possible consequences of surveillance technology and permanent war).

    I’m less keen now on the “big SF names” I read decades ago – Asimov, Clarke, Heinlein, Bradbury. I find their obliviousness of privilege (Clarke is maybe a bit better than the others) grates more than the vile views I know Wells held, but which don’t come through obviously (to me) in his best work.

  297. dianne says

    Have women who are treated as equals and not as pretty fuck-toys (or in many cases, have women at all)?

    Have you tried Bujold? She does a decent exploration of some of the implications of having pregnancy move from a biological event to a technical one (i.e. complete incubation in an artificial uterus.) It’s interesting, although I think she’s vastly underestimating the implications (and the backlash.)

  298. Tony ...listen, learn, change says

    cicely:
    xOgvorbis, welcome home! *booze&bacon*

    how about booze flavored bacon??!!
    http://amog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/bakon.jpg

    Welcome bac-on Og!

    ~~

    opposablethumbs @386:
    There’s one – somebody will probably know the title – about a bloke trapped inside some sort of prison where all the inmates are looked after by robots, and he’s the last one left alive in the world but the robots just go on keeping him locked up as if there were still a functioning society outside.

    That synopsis sounds incredibly interesting. If you find out the name of the book, please let me know. I’d be curious to read it.

    aaaaaaan never mind, I see Audley just answered that.
    Soft Rains noted. Thanks to you both.

    ~~

  299. KG says

    Oh, yeah, carbonfox, I agree with everyone else who’s responded to you. A lot of young men are casually sexist (as are a lot of older ones of course – but the young ones should be more teachable), but this guy sounds like seriously bad news.

  300. Rey Fox says

    why are they giving birth?

    So that they could shove Padme into the refrigerator and give Vader his “motivation”. Noooooooo!

  301. says

    that was really a long committee meeting just on one topic. Today I learnt (not really that surprising) that when it comes to large-scale infrastructure projects, the city council is very much at a disadvantage compared to the corporations and the federal government.

  302. dianne says

    Also re the Star Trek universe: In TOS, beaming within a ship was said to be dangerous because you might misaim just a little and end up in a wall. That would imply that beaming a baby out of the uterus was a bit too dangerous to do. OTOH, at least one book I’ve read* states that they have scar erasing technology. So why not just do a c-section at 38-39 weeks every time? Why even bother with labor?

    *Yeah, I’m a geek.

  303. Tony ...listen, learn, change says

    Erülóra Maikalambe
    Um, am I banned or something?

    Your posts are showing up, but if you’ve included any links in them, I haven’t seen any.

  304. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    Swastika Night by Katharine Burdekin, writing under the pseudonym Murray Constantine in 1937, brilliantly shows the logical end result of misogyny and fascism – women as livestock.

    I have this book!
    I read it during the last year of undergrad, when I wasn’t quite feminist or informed yet. I was reading it going O.o you’re right, but OF COURSE Nazis are bad, I mean, they did the HOLOCAUST for fuck’s sake, they’re pretty much the favored embodiment of ideologically-driven evil acts, do we really need a whole book to hammer in the point like this?
    Eventually it dawned on me to look at the publishing date. (1937.)
    Heh.
    Suffice it to say that I didn’t really have my shit together at that point in my life…

  305. says

    Giliell:

    The end of planet earth? No problem! Suspend all the laws of physics? No big deal. Have women who are treated as equals and not as pretty fuck-toys (or in many cases, have women at all)? Are you mad???

    Ayup. Star Trek, all incarnations stayed firmly in the Ugh Ugh camp when it came to women. I used to call Next Gen “Nursery in Space”, which really pissed off a friend of mine.

    I remember once, when the ratings weren’t doing so well on Next Gen, they stuffed Marina Sirtois into this dress which popped her cleavage like nobody’s business. Yeah, it’s the future, look at the tits, look!

  306. dianne says

    @Cipher 428: Yeah, the publication date. But I do think that one of the evils of the Nazi era that gets lost is its misogyny. Ok, so they didn’t commit genocide against all women, but they did get quite serious into oppression including restricting schooling for women, forcing young women to work in “womanly” fields like taking care of children, restricting abortion (both forcing it on “undesirables” and banning it for women of the “master race”). The Nazi era was quite the backlash against all sorts of liberalism.

  307. dianne says

    @429: I’d say that Star Trek, at least TOS and TNG (I lost interest at that point) actually got more sexist as time went on. In season 1 of TOS, for example, Uhura was clearly an accepted part of the crew, despite the miniskirt. By season 3, she was the basic helpless woman of traditional SF. TNG, while having more Strong Women (TM) on the crew, used them mostly as foils for the male characters or people to be rescued.

  308. Owlmirror says

    Isn’t the wikia site on the instaban list (and has been for some time)?

  309. Tony ...listen, learn, change says

    dianne:
    She does a decent exploration of some of the implications of having pregnancy move from a biological event to a technical one (i.e. complete incubation in an artificial uterus.)

    This is interesting.
    Geek alert.
    Back during the 1980s, DC comics did a massive restructuring of their comic book universe (largely to pare down the characters and bring more coherency to their shared realm). No character was untouched.
    Superman saw his origin change dramatically (by writer/artist John Byrne). The core stayed the same, but a lot of the window dressing was updated; most especially his birth. In previous decades, Jor-El and Lara were no different than straight married couples in the 1960s (or rather a stereotyped version of such). They had sex, made a baby, were in love, yada yada. The updated origin was a bit different:

    The planet Krypton is portrayed as a cold and emotionally sterile planet, an idea Byrne borrowed from the 1978 film Superman. Kal-El was not an infant sent from Krypton to Earth; rather, his fetus was placed in a “birthing matrix” equipped with a rocket engine and Jor-El’s experimental warp drive, with Kal-El gestating during the trip to Earth; once the rocket landed, Kal-El was fully “born” on Earth. This also made him “born” an American…
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_of_Steel_(comic_book)

    and

    The population became isolated from one another, living in widely separated technological citadels and shunning all personal, physical contact. Procreation would then become a matter of selecting compatible genetic material which would then be placed within an artificial womb called a “birthing matrix”. Any attempt to contact other worlds was forbidden, and the planetary government maintained an isolationist stance, forbidding space exploration of any kind.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krypton_(planet)

    Looking back on The Man of Steel through my adult eyes, I can see where John Byrne was influenced by both science *and* religion in crafting Superman’s reimagined backstory.

  310. Owlmirror says

    Huh.
    Test 3 failed.

    ONLY pharyngula dot wikia.com gets the instaban?

    WHY?

  311. says

    @dianne

    exactly. They also had campaigns like “Die deutsche Frau raucht nicht”.

    The Nazis:

    – declared women’s emancipation “a Jewish invention” and rolled back the steps forward made in the Weimar era
    – made women ineligible to be elected to public office (they had just won the vote in 1919)
    – used “double incoming” (Doppelverdienertum) as a reason to put pressure women on quitting the workplace
    – gave husbands loans contingent upon the wife giving up work – every child born reduced the payable sum by a quarter

    A couple of caveats though: the professional role of women in the agricultural sector always stayed strong, and indeed the birth rate on the countryside was lower than in the cities. Also, all these discriminatory measures at the workplace were reduced or stopped once the war effort sent most of the men away.

    Probably it’d be better to read a modern historian’s account of this though rather than a book from 1937. I came across some that looked interesting, but they’re all in German (many years ago I read one book, I think it was called “Hitler’s women”, portraying all the prominent women in Hitler’s regime, like Martha Goebbels and so forth)

    Wolfgang Schneider has written a book, “women under the swastika”, where he argues that there were cases of “unintentional equality” under the Nazis, but I haven’t read the book yet.

  312. says

    OK, I come to the well-reasoned conclusion that Justin Griffith is indeed 12 years old hiding well in the body of an adult man.
    Now he’s posting a greatest hits album of “look how good everything becomes if you just love the haters a bit”.
    I correct myself. He’s not only 12 years old, he’s 12 years old Ghandi and Jesus all rolled into one.

  313. says

    Tony,
    No no! Sorry, I was talking about There Will Come Soft Rains by Ray Bradbury, which is about an automated house that keeps ticking even after a nuclear explosion.

    It’s available online and IIRC is included in a couple of his short story collections.

    Re bottled water: It’s not so much what they put in as what they don’t take out of spring and purified water. Municipal tap water is much more highly regulated and even though you can call a bottle water company for an “analysis”, there’s nothing guaranteeing that it’s accurate.

    Like everything else, it’s probably fine in moderation*. OTOH, Britta does make aweome filtered water bottles that are whoa handy and way cheaper than buying bottled water.

    I have a problem when people substitute bottle water for tap all the time (*coff*my mother*coff*) because they’ve bought into the woo that the amount of flouride and chlorine found in tap water is going to make you sick.

    *You’re not pregnant too, are you? ;)

  314. Owlmirror says

    unintended-consequences.wikia.com

    down-with-censorship.wikia.com

    cephalopods-suck.wikia.com

    pz-is-a-poopyhead.wikia.com

  315. dianne says

    They also had campaigns like “Die deutsche Frau raucht nicht”.

    Na, Sie werden langer Leben als es Wahr waere. Aber die deutsche Mann sollen auch nicht rauchen, oder?

    Sorry about any grammatical screw ups.

  316. dianne says

    I came across some that looked interesting, but they’re all in German

    I read German much better than I write it and would be interested in particulars.

  317. says

    ONLY pharyngula dot wikia.com gets the instaban?

    WHY?

    I’ve always assumed PZ doesn’t want a fan project he doesn’t participate in be too closely associated with his blog.

    Just a guess, obviously.

  318. Tony ...listen, learn, change says

    Audley:
    No no! Sorry, I was talking about There Will Come Soft Rains by Ray Bradbury, which is about an automated house that keeps ticking even after a nuclear explosion.

    Oh, ok.
    I’d say bummer, but that sounds like a cool book to read too!

    *You’re not pregnant too, are you? ;)

    you have to have sex for that, right?
    Then the answer is no :)
    Although if immaculate conception can happen, perhaps immaculate masturbation can as well…

    And hey, you changed your ‘nym back. No more A.Z. ?

  319. dysomniak, darwinian socialist says

    I correct myself. He’s not only 12 years old, he’s 12 years old Ghandi and Jesus all rolled into one.

    Wow. “Look how great an advocate I am!”

    Big, brave Sgt. Griffith charging in to fight the religious right.

  320. Owlmirror says

    I’ve always assumed PZ doesn’t want a fan project he doesn’t participate in be too closely associated with his blog.

    Nah. He might not link to pharynguwiki, but that wouldn’t entail putting the entire site on the spam blacklist.

    I suspect it’s just a mistake or configuration error. Maybe he junked a comment that had a link to the wiki (for whatever reason), and wordpress decided that the comment was spam, and all links in the comment were spam.

  321. says

    Damn, I picked up a delicious batch of take away Thai* and an awful bottle of red wine. I know next to nothing about wine, so I asked the supposedly knowledgeable salesperson at Alko for something that would go well with spicy oriental food, and got a bottle of bland and sweet pisswater.

    *Jumbo shrimp with chili and basil

  322. Tony ...listen, learn, change says

    Awww, is the poor widdle governor sad that women still get to choose what to do with their bodies (for a little while longer anyway)…?

    The governor of Mississippi has expressed disappointment in a judge’s ruling that temporarily blocked the state from closing its last remaining abortion clinic, as the legal battle to keep it open continued.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/02/mississippi-abortion-clinic-legal-fight

    Do these people think abortions are magically going to stop with the closing of clinics? Or will it become invisible to them? “Nope. No abortion clinics in this state. Everyone has their babies here.”

  323. ChasCPeterson says

    somebody could make a lot of money with a book called Tits of Star Trek.

  324. Tony ...listen, learn, change says

    Weed Monkey:
    I know next to nothing about wine, so I asked the supposedly knowledgeable salesperson at Alko for something that would go well with spicy oriental food, and got a bottle of bland and sweet pisswater.

    I’m not uber knowledgeable about wine, but I know a few things.
    When in doubt, go with a Pinot Noir (if it’s red wine you’re looking for). It’s not overly sweet or pungent and is mild enough to be paired with nearly any dish.
    For a white wine, perhaps a Moscato would work for you. The sweetness and crispness should provide a balance for the spicy Thai food.

  325. Tony ...listen, learn, change says

    Audley:
    re: your phone
    BWHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    (that is odd though, as Tony is a common enough name for most autocorrect functions to recognize)

  326. dianne says

    “Nope. No abortion clinics in this state. Everyone has their babies here.”

    Or die trying. Die trying is a real possibility.

  327. Tony ...listen, learn, change says

    Speaking of women having the right to bodily autonomy…
    Friday night at work, a discussion came up between myself and few of the servers. One young woman, L, couldn’t believe that I served a guest who appeared pregnant (she wasn’t). I told her we don’t have the right to refuse service due to someone’s pregnancy and that doing such a thing would be to impose our morals on her, which is immoral. L replied to the effect of ‘think of the baby’. To which I replied that it is not a baby and its rights do not supercede the rights of the mother. I got to use the ‘no one has the right to demand the use of anothers’ body’ argument for the first time in meatspace! When I told her it was illegal to discriminate on the grounds of pregnancy and that she could be fired, she proclaimed that she didn’t care. I likened it to abortion (which she has no issue with) in that the woman’s bodily autonomy is the first concern, not the needs of the fetus. She didn’t really have a coherent reply after that (and of course she walked off). I didn’t count that as a win, but I hope she has the chance to think her views through.

  328. Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan says

    Weed Monkey, you can also try a rosé wine. I’ve had one or two that would’ve worked nicely with a spicy dish. Really depends on your tastes, though.

  329. BCPA_Lady (There's no place like home...thankfully!) says

    Totally ‘rupt in all the ways after 10 days at my youngest sister’s in the land that time and broadband forgot. (The oldest and youngest nieces and their daredevil brother were distraction enough from my painful case of internet withdrawal, however.)

    Thankfully, I’m now at the youngest brother’s house, where the internet is excellent and the wine is plentiful. Will be heading out tomorrow night for the maternal family’s annual July 4th camping and FIRE! event at the lake. (Our motto: “52 years of illegal fireworks and we STILL haven’t burned the place down.”)

    I really can’t wait to spend two days listening to half my relatives tell me how awful/evil/bad I am for moving away….

    I should probably pack more wine.

  330. Tethys says

    I seem to remember that we cannot link to pharyngula wiki, because the slimepitters have written a pile of crap called pha wrong ula wiki.

    Does anyone else find Justin’s co-opting the term slimepit annoying? I’m not sure why I find it so annoying.

  331. says

    Tony:

    When in doubt, go with a Pinot Noir (if it’s red wine you’re looking for). It’s not overly sweet or pungent and is mild enough to be paired with nearly any dish.

    Yes, I prefer red with some tang – when I have wine, usually it’s beer. :) I have a few favourites for drinking (mostly Spanish, for some reason), but this time I went shopping for something that would fit the food, and boy that didn’t work out. I’ll write Santerra Syrah down in the list of wines I don’t need to try again.

  332. Tony ...listen, learn, change says

    Giliell:
    Oh, I’m not knocking Pinot Noir.
    I like it, specifically because it can be paired with almost any dish.
    If I want a crisp, sweet red wine, my favorite is Marietta Angeli Cuvee*.
    http://www.mariettacellars.com/2012/03/2009-angeli-cuvee/

    One of the first times I had this wine was several years ago. My friend Pam and I had both worked brunch at my old restaurant (I’ll give some scary tales about that place one day, and why I’m not there after 7 years; it’s related to human rights) and we decided to have some wine and get a crab dish. Well actually, she wanted crab. I got something else, b/c I hate the amount of time you have to take to consume crab. I’m much more of a fingers or spoon/fork ready to eat kinda guy. Pam did one of the sweetest, nicest things for me (which I didn’t even request): she cracked and pulled the meat out of several crab legs for me so that I could have some.
    She and I wound up having two bottles of wine.
    I was told the next day that I dry humped one of my managers against the door to the liquor room. I’m not sure where that uncharacteristic bit of idiocy on my part came from (especially since I’ve never been attracted to that guy), but I was sure embarrassed.

    *this wine does contain sediment

  333. Tony ...listen, learn, change says

    BCPA:

    I hope you’re able to have some fun.
    Maybe your family should institute a time out/cooling off period when people start to annoy one another too much…?

    ~~

    Weed Monkey:
    Yes, I prefer red with some tang – when I have wine, usually it’s beer. :) I have a few favourites for drinking (mostly Spanish, for some reason), but this time I went shopping for something that would fit the food, and boy that didn’t work out.

    Perhaps a Zinfandel then or a Shiraz (my personal favorite of the reds).

  334. says

    Tony
    Urgh, I don’t like the combination of wine and sweet.
    I dislike white wine, unless it’s champaigne, used for cooking or sherry.
    With reds I usually go for French ones, Bordeaux for the most but I also like a good Burgundy wine.
    I really like when they matured in wooden barrels and there are some excellent Spanish wines and South American ones. Italian wines mostly don’t take to me. They’re not bad and go well with many meals but they’re just not my favourites.
    A real treat: Some good, dry red wine, fresh figs with a bit of black pepper ad some cheese, preferrably some hard goats o sheep cheese like Manchego.
    If nature was unkid to you and gave you an allergy against fresh figs, grill them with the cheese on top.

  335. opposablethumbs says

    @ Tony (421 and subsequently) yes, the story I was trying to remember just had some elements that were similar to the Soft Rain story, which is what put me in mind of it. And no, I can’t for the life of me remember the title right now … Sorry! But if it comes back to me I’ll certainly post it.

  336. says

    PTI:

    you can also try a rosé wine. I’ve had one or two that would’ve worked nicely with a spicy dish.

    That sounds rather good, actually, I just know even less about rosés than reds. :P Do you have a recommendation for something that’s worth trying?

  337. Tony ...listen, learn, change says

    More police brutality:

    But within minutes, he said, one of the two officers became enraged — and the judge became his target. The officer screamed and cursed at the onlookers, some of whom were complaining about what they said was his violent treatment of the suspect, and then he focused on Justice Raffaele, who was wearing a T-shirt and jeans. The judge said the officer rushed forward and, using the upper edge of his hand, delivered a sharp blow to the judge’s throat that was like what he learned when he was trained in hand-to-hand combat in the Army.

    The episode, Friday morning just after midnight — in which the judge says his initial complaint about the officer was dismissed by a sergeant, the ranking supervisor at the scene — is now the focus of investigations by the police Internal Affairs Bureau and the Civilian Complaint Review Board.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/06/nyregion/justice-thomas-d-raffaele-says-police-officer-struck-him.html?_r=1&smid=tw-share&pagewanted=all

  338. says

    I don’t think I’ve ever met one who seemed completely respectful or untainted by societal prejudices.I don’t think I’ve ever met one who seemed completely respectful or untainted by societal prejudices.

    This is setting the bar way too high. No-one will meet that standard, not even the most feminist of us all. But there’s a vast gap between everyday sexist (but working on it or willing to), and outright abuse.

    On other notes: thanks, Theophontes! LOVE IT!

    Cicely, new Stross, YES!!!!

    As to short stories, I think that Omelas is one that sticks with you forever. Did anyone mention Clarke’s “The Star” yet? And Asimov’s “Nightfall”?

  339. Tony ...listen, learn, change says

    Giliell:
    A real treat: Some good, dry red wine, fresh figs with a bit of black pepper ad some cheese, preferrably some hard goats o sheep cheese like Manchego.
    If nature was unkid to you and gave you an allergy against fresh figs, grill them with the cheese on top.

    I’ve never tried a fig.
    I do like black pepper.
    I do like cheese (especially Manchego).
    What is odd: I don’t like cheese by itself. It has to be served with or atop something. Israeli couscous with swiss cheese. Salami with cheese. Cheeseburgers. Grilled cheese sammiches.

    ::scratches head about allergy to figs (never having heard of allergies to figs {or lemons as I heard at work this weekend} I of course assumed my bias applied to everyone on the planet::

  340. Owlmirror says

    I seem to remember that we cannot link to pharyngula wiki, because the slimepitters have written a pile of crap called pha wrong ula wiki.

    That makes no sense at all.

    There might have been a junked comment that held links to both sites, which led to both sites being added to the spam list, but it isn’t necessary for both sites to be in the spam list.

    Does anyone else find Justin’s co-opting the term slimepit annoying?

    How is he co-opting it?

  341. Ogvorbis: I Am ObtuseMan says

    Figs stuffed with Peccorino Romano, wrapped with bacon (partially cooked), and broiled until the bacon is crispy and the cheese is almost runny.

    Trust me.

  342. cm's changeable moniker says

    *unlurk*

    Weed Monkey: “Alko”.

    That’s a really unfortunate name for a wine shop. ;)

    When in doubt, go with a Pinot Noir

    Works in the US and Australia. NZ? Questionable.

    Burgundy, though? Nightmare. Robert Parker said the best were equal parts ripe, under-ripe, and rotted grapes. This is not a reliable mix.

    (See also Andrew Barr’s Wine Snobbery, chapter “The sun in sacks”.)

    For white Burgundies, the best I’ve ever had was a Saint-Véran.

  343. Patricia, OM says

    Back from the wool festival. It sucked SO bad, even a fuckton of suckiness doesn’t cover it.

  344. marilove says

    All this wine talk!

    I’m going to have a beer. A nice hoppy Imperial IPA. :)

    I don’t really like wine. I’ve tried. I’ve even had a couple that I’ve actually kind of liked (Maynard from Tool has some pretty good stuff), but I still didn’t LOVE it.

    Beer, though, I could go on and on and on and on and on about beer…

    *unlurk*

    Weed Monkey: “Alko”.

    That’s a really unfortunate name for a wine shop. ;)

    I thought it was fantastic and clever, but I admit my sense of humor isn’t all that classy sometimes. (I *really* can’t wait to see Ted.)

  345. Ogvorbis: I Am ObtuseMan says

    Ah.

    Good.

    Le Tour de Amélioration de la Performance is on.

    I love the scenery.

  346. Patricia, OM says

    I think I’ll make some sangria.

    To make up for the sucky wool festival my nieces are taking me kite flying & BBQ on my birthday. Naughty M. bought a new Revolution that we all want to try.

  347. QueQuoiHuh says

    After two days of trying to catch up on all the fuckwittery that seems to have infected some former and current bloggers on FtB, I decided I would go see how truly bad the slimepit was.

    I am not sure whether to laugh at the constant head nodding and “I agree with her”, “He has a valid point” hivemind that seems to be humming over there, or to curl up in a corner with a a case of whiskey at the idea that skepticism means “I don’t believe my words have the power to hurt people unless you have scientific data to back it up.”

    I have opted to take a deep breath, say hello to all you Pharyngulites and send out an urgent request for bleach and steel wool for my poor bewildered brain.

  348. Tethys says

    There might have been a junked comment that held links to both sites, which led to both sites being added to the spam list, but it isn’t necessary for both sites to be in the spam list.

    *shrug* I do not know how PZ handles spam or filter settings. I only know that we haven’t been able to link to the wiki since the second wiki was written.

    How is he co-opting it?

    He uses the term slimepit extensively in his latest post to describe his heroic efforts on behalf of atheists.

    I am ruminating on why I find his use of the term annoying.
    It’s ridiculously hot here, so I might just be irritable.

  349. says

    cm:

    Weed Monkey: “Alko”.

    That’s a really unfortunate name for a wine shop. ;)

    Well that’s what we have to work with, it’s the national monopoly for all alcohol stronger than 4.7%.

  350. QueQuoiHuh says

    That’ll teach me to try html for the first time while I’m pissed off. *sigh*

  351. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    Caine, I’m glad you liked the shot! Thanks! ♥
    QueQuoiHuh, three excellent questions.

  352. Patricia, OM says

    Welcome QueQuoiHuh!

    For those not into kites yet, this is part of the kiting event we went to. They are flying Revolutions.

  353. BCPA_Lady (There's no place like home...thankfully!) says

    Tony: Thanks. There will be a lot of fun, especially once the bonfire is lit and the kiddies and elders are sleeping. Mostly because we can stop sneaking to the woods for our drinks. :)

    It’s really only the older generation (my mom’s cohort) that gets on my case (and nearly everyone else’s). Anyone who doesn’t do things exactly as they did has a swelled head and thinks they’re better than the rest of the family….blah blah blah.

    The good news is that opportunities for escape are numerous — hiking trails, canoes/kayaks, and a floating dock that the elders can’t/won’t swim to.

  354. marilove says

    Patricia, OM:

    Hah! The song playing in the video is great. I started singing along immediately. My cats are looking at me funny.

  355. Patricia, OM says

    marilove – Yep, that’s Queen. They did another act with more Queen songs. It was great!
    The hotel where we stayed is the one in the background with the five chimneys.

    Somebody correct my link method please:
    highlight Search bar, hit ctrl c
    Go to where you want to post link
    hit ctrl v

  356. marilove says

    Patricia: It’s possible this blog is set-up to automatically embed yotuube video links; I’ve seen it before, so I think that’s the case. I wouldn’t worry about it. It looks fine.

    I’m gonna test:

  357. cicely (WHAT sammich, Officer? I know nothing about no sammich.) says

    Can I just take a moment to brag about what an awesome toddler I have?

    By all means!
    :)

    My mother thinks that anyone who uses meth (more than once) should be executed out of hand….
    :( :( :(

    If you like the idea of a fictional Victorian London based from an alternative ending to Dracula, where Von Helsing failed to kill Dracula, I recommend Anno Dracula by Kim Newman.
    -

  358. ImaginesABeach says

    I haven’t shopped at JC Penneys in ages, but when GirlChild needed new pajamas this weekend, I went to Penneys. If anyone is wondering, their prices have gotten really good, the selection (for those of us who dress casually) isn’t bad, and they haven’t caved to the religious right. Win all around!