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Jun 16 2012

Say, we haven’t done a poll in a while

I confess, so many of the polls people send to me are already trending in the right direction — and this one is no exception — so I haven’t been pushing them as hard. Have all those internet atheists realized that they have a voice all on their own, and don’t need me to tell them to speak up anymore?

Anyway, you can still tell New Zealand to do better. 43% want to deny equal rights to gay people? For shame.

Should same-sex marriage be legalised?

Yes – Gay couples should have the same legal rights as everybody else 55%

No – Marriage should be between a man and a woman 43%

Not sure 2%

33 comments

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  1. 1
    magistramarla

    It was at 67% when I voted.
    Definitely moving in the right direction.

  2. 2
    New England Bob

    Becoming nicely Pharyngulated.

  3. 3
    jonnyscaramanga

    I’m sure this discussion has been had many times before I started visiting here, but what’s the rationale on a Pharyngula block vote in these cases? I know there’s evidence that once public opinion appears to be moving in one direction, it gathers momentum, but I’m just wondering if there’s more to the reasoning than that.

    Off to vote now, regardless.

  4. 4
    Zeno

    The insane right-wing creeps at Free Republic were “freeping” the Washington Post poll on the president’s decision to halt deportation of noncitizens who came to this country as children (imagine getting deported back to a country you don’t remember — and may not even know the language). They had it at 66% to 34% in favor of continuing deportations, but today it’s getting closer: 55% against the president’s decision and 45% in favor. Perhaps Yes will pass No today. [Link to poll]

  5. 5
    kilgour44

    You know, I feel sorry for your country down there. Here in Canada we settled this issue in 2005, and legalized gay marriage. Even our current Conservative government won’t touch the issue again. It’s over and done with. I hope the USA evolves to understand that gay marriage won’t suddenly wipe out hetero marriage, or force some venom-tongued pastors to suddenly have to go at it with a horse, or a badger. However, evolution takes a lot of time, and a lot of bigoted people are going to have to die natural deaths before this particular idea can take hold. Best of luck!

  6. 6
    captaincooked

    Hey, not all of us kiwi’s are ignorant pricks. Some have managed to escape the shackles of small town mentality and have moved elsewhere. That said, I happily vote in opposition to the stereotype of hillbilly. New Zealand, the first country to give women the right to vote, the first country to have a transgender member of parliament. hmm mm maybe there is evidence that internet polls don’t mean shit.

  7. 7
    Funny Diva

    Zeno@4
    Thanks for the pointer. voted yes. Not enough movement yet.

  8. 8
    captaincooked

    Not to harp on, just to clarify that NZ is not a cesspool of ignorance.

    http://www.elections.org.nz/study/education-centre/history/votes-for-women.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgina_Beyer

  9. 9
    David Hart

    “…creeps at Free Republic were “freeping” the Washington Post”

    So, are these standard verbs – freep: to skew an internet poll in a conservative direction; pharyngulate: to skew an internet poll in a progressive direction?

    I hope so. It would be tiresome to have to have a new verb for every blogger or media outlet that has a poll-skewing audience.

  10. 10
    Sili

    [Link to poll]

    I feel stupid, but I can’t find any poll on that page. Only a comment section.

  11. 11
    SteveV

    80:19:1

  12. 12
    Emrysmyrddin

    jonnyscaramanga: It’s a way to demonstrate that Internet polls are useless for gauging opinion or collecting any kind of usable data. That they are subject to such easy manipulation does not stop various news outlets around the world from basing lead-ins on “A poll today showed that…”

    It’s especially funny when sites pull shenanigans. When you know the answer that the organisation wants to get from the outset, and is not looking for a true canvassing of opinion, and the count spirals beyond their worst nightmares for the ‘wrong’ answer, and then polls get taken down, then reopened, then the figures wobble, and freeze, and suddenly jump back and forth as the org’s tech guy feverishly works to bring the result back to their employer’s diktat…

    *sigh* I imagine the employer hanging over the tech’s shoulder to be Ken Ham, and I get a lovely warm feeling spreading inside.

  13. 13
    Heliantus

    The NZ poll at 81% in favor.

    The Washington post poll (@ Zeno 4) at 47% in support of Obama. Could be better.

    I like how Mitt Romney is saying that it’s a good idea, but Obama shouldn’t have done it, because it’s not written in stone and the next president may reverse it. Sour grapes?
    For one, it’s the function of the government to make or unmake legislation, so it’s business as usual. If the next president wants to reverse this, it’s his job – and his political skin he will be risking.
    For two, I fail to see how having a temporary rule is worse than having no rule and waiting for the senate to move on it.

  14. 14
    Emrysmyrddin

    Alright, I’ve tried to post the quick-link to the main site a few times but I think it’s getting held. I’ll stop trying, failing and scratching my head like a bemused bonobo and say:

    “nz[dot]news[dot}yahoo[dot]com will take you to the main site. Scroll down half-a-wheel and it’s on the right-hand side.”

  15. 15
    'Tis Himself

    captaincooked #8

    NZ is not a cesspool of ignorance.

    That’s not what the Australians say about New Zealand.

  16. 16
    Amphiox

    You know, I feel sorry for your country down there. Here in Canada we settled this issue in 2005, and legalized gay marriage. Even our current Conservative government won’t touch the issue again. It’s over and done with. I hope the USA evolves to understand that gay marriage won’t suddenly wipe out hetero marriage, or force some venom-tongued pastors to suddenly have to go at it with a horse, or a badger.

    Seven years in, and hetero marriage is as strong as ever here in Canada.

    And the horses and badgers are also just as safe as they ever were.

  17. 17
    captaincooked

    ‘Tis Himslf #15

    I tend to ignore it when the pot calls the kettle black. Oz is a cesspool of ignorance and I know this because

    A) I live there
    B) Compared to multiple countries I’ve lived in, they pale in comparison to Oz
    C)NZ culture embraces indigenous culture (as in speech) eg. Lets get some kai (food) bro, or. Open up your Taringas (ears) when I’m talking to you.
    D) Oz race riots
    E) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halt_All_Racist_Tours

    I’m not saying that you are the pot, just sayin. :)

  18. 18
    footface

    Yes is now at 86%.

  19. 19
    Dabu

    I’ve voted. No need to ask how.

    The gay marriage and gay adoption issues have had quite a bit of discussion in New Zealand recently, and the old holdouts are still a vocal minority. Makes for a very quick maxing out of threads with a sub-Pharyngula capacity.

    Those people are fond of the Starving Kiddies gambit, which is arguing that there’s no time to worry about giving equal rights to gay people while there are hungry children about, or any other vexing social issue you can think of.

  20. 20
    Hershele Ostropoler

    I always wonder about the semantics of this. Same-sex marriage isn’t “illegal” in any sense that I use or hear the word in other contexts. Is there a reason (other than spin) why “legalize” is always used?

  21. 21
    mikee

    As a New Zealander I put little faith in a poll I only found out via this blog. National polls have something like 67% in favour of gay marriage, and a prime minister how doesn’t oppose it, just isn’t giving it a top priority (typical for a conservative government focused on the economy)
    I suspect it will be legal by the end of the year, as there are quite a few politicians supporting it and the only ones speaking out against it are a minority of religious nutters.
    And do we have to really do the whole NZ vs Australia thing? – both countries have their virtues and vices. Below the surface antagonism, there is , I think for many, a lot of respect for each other.

  22. 22
    WhiteHatLurker

    Topical – the pride parade was held here today. Same in NZ?

  23. 23
    sw

    Just to point something out for anyone still hating on NZ, we do have legalized civil unions that grant all the benefits of marriage to both hetrosexual or homosexual couples, just without calling it “marriage”.
    Which is stupid, but better than nothing.

  24. 24
    Democritus NOW!

    NZ poll is now at 89% in favor of a basic thing that we shouldn’t even have to discuss, and the WaPo DREAM Act poll moved to only 50% of respondents thinking that children should be imprisoned and deported.

    woo hoo!

  25. 25
    Jem

    NZ culture embraces indigenous culture (as in speech) eg. Lets get some kai (food) bro, or. Open up your Taringas (ears) when I’m talking to you.

    Ha, I don’t know the last time I heard a non-Maori use any Maori in a sentence. Nice way to make it sounds as if everyone in New Zealand is holding hands and happily embracing Maori culture, we have a lot of deeply-rooted problems with Maori/Pakeha relations.

    As for the general attitude towards Australians, it can be a fun and friendly rivalry for some and fuel dangerous racist/nationalistic attitudes for others (thinking of my neighbours as a prime example).

  26. 26
    jackcowie

    There are currently two private members’ bills in the ballot for gay marriage, plus one for changing adoption laws. Public opinion is overwhelmingly in favour of gay marriage, and it will be a conscience vote for the biggest two parties. Labour has a socially conservative wing, but they are on the margins and most Labour MPs will support gay marriage; National is a little more conservative but there has been enormous grassroots pressure from their younger members for change.

    When a private members’ bill comes through, I am confident it will pass; and it’s possible that a change of government in 2014 could lead to it too — perhaps as part of a coalition agreement with the Greens, who are overwhelmingly in favour.

  27. 27
    Crudely Wrott

    Including my vote just now:

    Yes: 90%

    No: 9%

    Lost in the fog: 1%

    It’s by little steps such as this that justice and the wide spread quality of life improves. No sudden revelations shaking societie’s conscience but rather incremental improvement. Not phenomena but process in spite of societies. This is how most everything works. It is good. Prepare your children.

  28. 28
    samoanbiscuit

    “It’s by little steps such as this that justice and the wide spread quality of life improves.”
    I’m sorry but unless you’re actually a citizen of New Zealand able to vote or bring pressure on your local MP, what you did just made you feel better, nothing more. I concede that you may have made some kiwi fence sitters think they should support gay marriage because of the overwhelming support this yahoo poll shows, but you way also have made some other dumb fence sitter support the unpopular position so they can seem “edgy”. Pharyngulating a poll from outside the US by a readership that is mostly North Americans just sounds like poisoning the well to me.
    I voted to, obviously, but at least I’m honest with myself as to what effect (as close to zero as to be meaningless) my click actually meant.

  29. 29
    samoanbiscuit

    Aaarrgh, typos! Away from my posts I abjure thee!

  30. 30
    Amblebury

    Hmm, yes. There’s a lot of good-natured (I hope) jesting between Aussies and Kiwis. But thrashing it is tiresome.

    I’m Ngati Pakeha Jem, and the whanau and I use Te Reo Maori frequently. Sure, there’s a long way to go. However, having lived some time in Aus., including the NT, I’d rather be here as far as race relations are concerned.

    NZ does have a civil unions act, but I think it’s insulting, and I can’t understand why all adults aren’t afforded the same rights. Here or elsewhere. My impression from polls and conversation is that others feel similarly. A Green coalition, as mentioned above, in 2014 would pretty much make equal rights regarding marriage a done deal.

  31. 31
    Crudely Wrott

    Samoanbiscuit, while I understand that this poll is to me in a far away land and that you apparently are a denizen thereof and that my vote is like pissing in an ocean, still. I speak of small steps deliberately. Take heart, friend. We live in a world today that is only artificially divided by geography and time zones and borders. The needs and desires of disparate peoples are no longer strange to those living in the antipodes.

    Prepare your children.

  32. 32
    Regular Joe

    Should same-sex marriage be legalised?
    Sane (120207) 91%
    Batshit (10747) 8%
    Clueless (1049) 1%

  33. 33
    Stella

    It’s at 92% to 7% currently.

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