Friday Cephalopod: I was going to bring back some jewelry for my wife… »« Why I am an atheist – Stella

Comments

  1. d(thunk) over d(MQG) = SQRRAWK! says

    I’m a mostly-privileged thunk, so I won’t play the nym game too badly :p.

  2. old man jenkins ॐ says

    Setar, if you’d like to showcase your witlessness once again, go follow the links and try to figure out what happened.

    Your treatment of me says otherwise =/

    Or, just go ahead and take me clearly telling Caine “yes you do” as though I said “no I don’t.”

    Idiot.

  3. Lyn M, Purveyor of Fine Aphorisms of Death says

    Yes, this is back some but I’m reading as fast as I can.

    (A yottabyte is a septillion bytes—so large that no one has yet coined a term for the next higher magnitude.)

    Although the grouchobyte was proposed, scaling up with chicobyte, harpobyte and zeppobyte.

  4. says

    Cipher:

    Although honestly, “fucktoy” being one of the worse words for me

    In that case, I’m sorry for my earlier usage of Unholy fucktoy of gods. I won’t do it again.

  5. Cipher, OM, MQ says

    In that case, I’m sorry for my earlier usage of Unholy fucktoy of gods. I won’t do it again.

    Oh no, honestly it doesn’t bother me! I mean the word does, and if anybody applied it to me ever again I would probably go ballistic (sidenote: it just occurred to me what a weird phrase that is), but I actually think I’d be better off with at least some level of innocuous exposure to it. That’s kinda why I was considering using it in my nym.

  6. says

    Caine #422:

    It shouldn’t be a surprise on two counts. SG has spent more time in my killfile than out and when it comes to major drama (which SG seems to manufacture endlessly*), I often skim or skip over it altogether. Most of the time, drama is difficult for me, I find it draining on every level.

    Okay, um…see, the reason I don’t killfile sgbm is partly that he tends to manufacture this bullshit, and I have a personal stake in the matter since I was victimized by bullies for most of my school life.

    I don’t want to let sgbm get away with bullying everyone who ‘steps out of line’. I like Pharyngula because we have a community that is decidedly anti-bullying and knows not only what bullying behaviour is, but that this behaviour is unacceptable.

    So when I got singled out and harassed, and even told outright by sgbm that he was see you saying this, and Jadehawk saying this:

    And worse yet, I’ve caught myself not saying anything when a regular does/says something wrong, when I know for a fact that I would have said something if it had been a non-regular.

    I wonder if we’ve really got our priorities straight wrt fellow regulars.

  7. Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    @Jennifer #490-pt1:

    I don’t remember who called that someone would use my nym to justify casual use of the word “bitch, but whoever you are: you get a cookie. Took longer than expected, though.

    Squeee! We’re both famous, Jennifer!

    and @ Cipher:

    I’m glad you don’t get triggered off my ‘nym anymore. It’s funny, I’m really, really sensitive to the conflation of sex and violence, but to the extent that I anthropomorphize/deify death, she’s a kind figure. While things that lead to death may in many cases be violent, infinite life makes the present moment less valuable while making the long run of time…so very different that I can’t comprehend what it might be like. Some assert that it would be come vastly boring. Maybe, but if I’d lived a billion years might I have acquired a deeply different perspective?

    Death is the corollary of birth. (Also, the tradition of “Death” ‘nyms in Pharyngula is a context lost on that poster.) So when I saw her reduce my name to “feminist fucktoy of death” it struck me just how triggering this name *might* be.

    Of course, I knew it was potentially triggering when I chose it, but it didn’t hit me in the same way as it did reading that post.

    But, yeah, reclaiming. Having a disability effectively desexes one in the vast majority of contexts in the US. In fact, it is perfectly legally permissible for the government to require that medical services be provided in a residential medical facility when they know that effectively all such facilities prohibit sex as a blanket policy. (see what I did there?) This gives the government to grant people a choice between ability to, say, have hygiene and food needs met OR have the choice to have sex or not as one wills.

    Now, there’s been an absolute fuckton (see what I did there?) of sexual assault, sexual abuse, and rape against people with disabilities living in dis/ability prisons. A metric fuckton. I can see where the facility’s manager’s might want to prevent sexual abuse. But this is just another form of removing sexual agency.

    While being a crippled top might challenge certain notions about the ability of people with disabilities, being a crippled bottom goes right to the heart of institutional fears. How can we tell that the person ordering you around is doing so with your consent? they might wonder.

    Of course, they could just decline to force us into institutions and permit in-home care, which is cheaper, but they don’t in many jurisdictions. And not always the jurisdictions that you’d expect (though, yes, Georgia and Texas are problems). In Massachusetts the legislature passed a bill through at least one house (it might have been both) that made it a felony for anyone to create, possess, or transfer any sexual image (still or video) or recording depicting someone with a disability or someone over the age of 60 years old.

    Bear in mind that they already had a statute that prohibited this conduct against people legally unable to consent. That’s not what we’re talking about here. If you’ve had a foot amputated or just had your 60th birthday: your spouse taking photos of you (or possessing photos that you took) that are sexual – say, if the two of you mutually made a videotape of yourselves having sex is committing a crime that would have carried almost certain mandatory jail time. If you’re each 60 years old, you *both* go to jail for victimizing each other. Married 40 years? Doesn’t matter. IQ of 550 with a cogent analysis of the benefits and risks of sex, creating sexualized images of oneself in a digital age, and the applicability of the line of cases from Griswold to Lawrence? Doesn’t matter. You can’t legally consent. You’re a disability not a person. Uck.

    Note that when actual people with disabilities found out what was happening there was a massive campaign to kill the bill and it was either vetoed or died in the other house (I think the latter, but I can’t remember for sure).

    And it was all about protecting us. Yeesh.

    And thus there absolutely has to be a challenge to this perception of helpless asexuality, and it has to challenge for the freedom to do even things which give our brave, brave protectors the willies (see what I did there?)

    Advocating for the right to be a bottom, therefore, is like advocating not merely to be a white, suburban, straight-acting, professional man who happens to be gay. It’s like advocating for the right to be gay even when that means that one’s gayness is obvious and even when the easily triggered folk get scared.

    If we win the right to have sex of which the majority can approve, we haven’t won anything – even if along the way education slightly expands the sex of which the majority can approve in this historical moment and context.

    That isn’t winning rights. That’s winning tolerance.

    I. Am. Not. Looking. To. Be. Tolerated.

  8. Agent Silversmith, Feathered Patella Association says

    Although the grouchobyte was proposed, scaling up with chicobyte, harpobyte and zeppobyte.

    The harpobyte will be used for the learning capacity of natural conversation simulators.

  9. d(thunk) over d(MQG) = SQRRAWK! says

    Setar & Jadehawk:

    Yes; I often find myself just trying to agree with you all and silence dissent in my mind because I fear getting on your bad side. I should really stop that.

  10. says

    Setar, I didn’t say anyone else had to utilize their killfile. I’ve gotten into plenty of arguments with SG over his harassing and bullying of others. As I said, now I’m done. I can only take so much drama and there’s never any shortage of it on Pharyngula.

    I’ve never had any trouble calling out bad behaviour or stupidity or anything else on behalf of the regulars. However, in the case of SG, he seems to thrive on fighting, whereas I don’t. The best way I can describe it is that if I find myself having to deal with too much drama, it’s like I was dumped at a social gathering and forced to be an extrovert.

    You are, of course, free to pursue whichever course you think best.

  11. old man jenkins ॐ says

    Okay, um…see, the reason I don’t killfile sgbm is partly that he tends to manufacture this bullshit and I have a personal stake in the matter since I was victimized by bullies for most of my school life.

    Alright, Setar. You have a personal stake?

    Let’s see how much of a hypocrite you are.

    Go look at this.

    Now tell me. Who was starting a fight with who?

  12. says

    Cipher:

    Oh no, honestly it doesn’t bother me! I mean the word does, and if anybody applied it to me ever again I would probably go ballistic (sidenote: it just occurred to me what a weird phrase that is), but I actually think I’d be better off with at least some level of innocuous exposure to it. That’s kinda why I was considering using it in my nym.

    Okay. It’s not a term I use often, to say the least. However, if I do use it in the future and it bothers you or triggers a loop or anything else, tell me to stop. It’s the very least I could do. ♥

  13. old man jenkins ॐ says

    So when I got singled out and harassed, and even told outright by sgbm that he was milking an opportunity to make me look bad for all it was worth,

    When was this, Setar?

  14. says

    sgbm, fuck off. I’m not litigating over whether you think your bullying and harassing bullshit is bullying any more than I will litigate over sexual harassment with some privileged idiot.

    If anyone else wants to try and defend you I will start taking your complaints seriously. But if E-gate and the fallout have taught me anything other than basic feminism, it’s to never take the fucking bully seriously.

  15. Lyn M, Purveyor of Fine Aphorisms of Death says

    Once again behind the thread #366 or so.

    one of those idealized in utero babies or whatever, I think, and the headline: “Pretend I’m A Tree & Save Me”.

    Reminds me of an awesome pair of houses beside an on-ramp. You could see down onto their rooves. First house had put white shingles on a dark roof to spell out “jesus lives”. Next roof had done the same, but spelled out, “So does Elvis.” They were the only two houses for miles. Must have made for great neighbours.

  16. old man jenkins ॐ says

    I’ve gotten into plenty of arguments with SG over his harassing and bullying of others.

    Mmhmm. Again, Caine:

    I simply don’t care anymore. I have watched SG repeatedly hound and harass people* and it’s often nothing to do with being “judged accurately and fairly”.

    Right, sometimes it’s about ensuring they don’t bullshit about other people, or harm oppressed groups. I’d be glad to hear of any counterexamples.

    Still glad to hear of any.

  17. John Morales says

    [meta]

    Crip Dyke, we both know that the reason you’re an OM ain’t your circumstances, but rather your posts.

    (In passing, I note that the very idea of being either a top or a bottom* bemuses me, consensualism aside)

    * I’m pretty sure I follow the conceptual space in which you employ those terms.

  18. old man jenkins ॐ says

    sgbm, fuck off. I’m not litigating over whether you think your bullying and harassing bullshit is bullying

    That wasn’t the question. The question was who was starting a fight with who.

    Did you click on the link?

    I guarantee you, Setar, you are proving yourself to be a hypocrite right now. Click the link and see for yourself.

    If anyone else wants to try and defend you I will start taking your complaints seriously.

    Okay, then.

    Here you go.

    But you act like you already read the thread. How did you miss that?

  19. Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    @Audley:

    yay! I can’t wait for the Massively Anticipated eXpulsion! (I can’t tell you how disppointed I’ll be if you don’t name the child Max. So, y’know, do. Because my feelings are what count.)

  20. Cipher, OM, MQ says

    Crip Dyke, we both know that the reason you’re an OM ain’t your circumstances, but rather your posts.

    Funny story: I totally misread that, and thought there was a “not” in between “you’re” and “an” somehow, and was really completely shocked at how you were egregiously insulting such a excellent poster.

    Crip Dyke, I thought I’d let you know I’m digesting your post, not ignoring it :) Thanks very much for making it.

    Caine, I definitely will. Thank you. ♥

  21. Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    @John Morales:

    Not sure I understood the “circumstances” reference, but thanks for the kind words. Seriously, I was ridiculously happy to be OM’d (and even just OM Nom’d). It’s one of the best things that’s happened to me in the past 12 months, though it doesn’t quite compare to meeting Ms. Crip Dyke.

    Also,
    From a lecture that I gave (and later published as a written work) on how removing people from the dating pool removes people from the full benefits of community, which results in fewer allies and thus is a very important part of what undermines efforts for full equality in those groups so excluded.

    And so we find that our best lovers often become our best allies. In trans and crip and other communities these alliances are tremendously precious because oppression can deliberately block contact across a wall of privilege. But we have the power to reach through the wall. We can choose to imagine, What if I topped? What if I bottomed? What if I figured out the difference between topping and bottoming?

    So, yeah. What you said. I employ the concepts, but I resist their limitations.

    In a totally non-queer theory, non-I’m-post-moderner-than-thou way, of course.

    BTW: I’ve read this piece out loud a couple times in addition to the original presentation. That line always gets the biggest laugh of the piece.

  22. says

    Cipher:

    I totally misread that, and thought there was a “not” in between “you’re” and “an” somehow, and was really completely shocked at how you were egregiously insulting such a excellent poster.

    Oh lord, me too!

    I’m glad I’m not the only one that had to read JM’s post more than once. XD

  23. old man jenkins ॐ says

    Fuck your sophistry, SGBM. I already told you I’m not fucking taking it seriously. I don’t take harassers or bullies seriously.

    Tell me, Setar. When were you “told outright by sgbm that he was milking an opportunity to make me look bad for all it was worth”. What thread? What topic? Anything?

    Is there anyone who hasn’t established themselves as a harassing bully that wants to contest what I’ve (or, for that matter, what Caine has) said about sgbm?

    Okay, then.

    Here you go.

    But you act like you already read the thread. How did you miss that?

  24. John Morales says

    Jennifer, there’s a “butch pansy” posting here sometimes, a good poster.

    (I find that one even better)

  25. Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    @ Audley:

    months of anticipating the expulsion

    I see what you did there…

    I am apparently pregnant with the Highlander.

    THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE!

    Ye, gods, yes! When I was co-raising my goddaughter that was work enough and I was living with her mother…and two other women who occasionally pitched in. 4 on 1 is the minimally reasonable ratio in raising children. If you have the power to insist on only one, by all means, use it!

    But in other thoughts…

    “Dark Highlander”? Hopefully he won’t force a star to go nova so he can feed off the resulting energy then, in a fit of remorse, use a laser to kill himself.

    Because that would make me cry. And it would be horribly derivative.

  26. d(thunk) over d(MQG) = SQRRAWK! says

    John: Bah. most everyone has a cool nym around here. I think I especially liked Silic O’Napo…whatever, Elector Pharynguline (and it continued on for a few more lines).

  27. old man jenkins ॐ says

    Setar, you claim: “I have a personal stake in the matter since I was victimized by bullies for most of my school life.”

    If it is indeed true that you have a personal stake in the matter, then I expect you would be bothered to see someone starting a fight with someone else.

    So I ask you, click this link, and tell me, who do you see starting a fight with who?

    If you are not a total hypocrite, I’m sure you’ll care to make the effort to be sure you want take the side of ‘Tis Himself.

    For if you are not a total hypocrite, I’m sure you wouldn’t want to support someone who started a fight.

    Right?

    +++++
    Sally,

    What’s it like to feel love when you’re an authoritarian follower and a bitter, hateful, spiteful person?

    I have a hard time understanding why you’d think any of the above is contradictory, but, in any case — it seems to be the same as when I wasn’t, although it’s been a while, and memories aren’t always reliable.

  28. d(thunk) over d(MQG) = SQRRAWK! says

    “Dark Highlander”? Hopefully he won’t force a star to go nova so he can feed off the resulting energy then, in a fit of remorse, use a laser to kill himself.

    oh dear, lol. Let’s get too carried away!!!

  29. d(thunk) over d(MQG) = SQRRAWK! says

    38: Dammit, blockquote fail.

    “Dark Highlander”? Hopefully he won’t force a star to go nova so he can feed off the resulting energy then, in a fit of remorse, use a laser to kill himself.

    oh dear, lol. Let’s get too carried away!!!

  30. d(thunk) over d(MQG) = SQRRAWK! says

    But I’m squee! The transit of Venus is on the 5th/6th!

  31. d(thunk) over d(MQG) = SQRRAWK! says

    Caine:

    I just want to point out that Dark Highlander could be a she.

    Oh duh, why didn’t I consider that possibility! *thinking fail*. Guess it’s late then. G’nite Darkheart and everyone else.

  32. John Morales says

    Crip Dyke,

    Not sure I understood the “circumstances” reference

    To be crude and blunt (and hopefully less ambiguous), it was an euphemistic allusion to your being a crippled dyke as a contrast to its lack of relevance to how your merit as a commenter is perceived.

  33. says

    Caine:

    I just want to point out that Dark Highlander could be a she.

    I didn’t even notice the wording. God it feels like I’ve been missing so freaking much lately.

    (We’ll know in a week and a half in any case.)

    And back to flouncing. ‘Night all!

  34. Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    d(thunk):

    It was my problem, not yours. You followed the example I set. Don’t overthink it.

  35. Antiochus Epiphanes says

    If anyone else wants to try and defend you I will start taking your complaints seriously. But if E-gate and the fallout have taught me anything other than basic feminism, it’s to never take the fucking bully seriously.

    Fine. I call bullshit. SG isn’t a bully. He’s a formidable opponent. Not hardly the same thing. If you don’t care for someone challenging your arguments, make better arguments.

  36. Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    @JM:

    Okay, got it.

    The hell of it is? This is the one place in my life that it just didn’t occur to me that my writing would be valued for anything other than my writing.

    I pounced on Janine for making this totally asinine assumption, then doubled down when she denied it. Turns out she didn’t make it at all, the cupcake that she was calling out made it and she just responded to cupcake. Me? I’d only been skimming cupcake because of cupcakes, well, cupcakeness.

    I got pounced and deserved it.

    And I was writing to protest discrimination from the point of view of someone targeted by that form of discrimination.

    No, my standpoint isn’t what’s valued here, and I dearly love Pharyngula for that. It means when I get praise, I know it’s not a pat on the head; it means something.

  37. Antiochus Epiphanes says

    And I should no better than to wade in when I’m fading. But for fucks sake. If SG makes me feel insecure in my way of thinking*, maybe my thinking isn’t so hot. Sure *hugs* are great, but there is so much going on here**.

    *and you fucking do.
    **That includes a lot of you. Keep harassing and hounding. It’s made me a better person.

  38. Ariaflame, BSc, BF, PhD says

    Now, now, John Morales, I thought everyone agreed that that movie does not exist.

  39. says

    AE:

    Keep harassing and hounding.

    Discussing, talking, debating, arguing, all good. Harassment and hounding, not. I don’t condone harassment on the part of anyone else, why should I let it slide when a regular does it?

  40. old man jenkins ॐ says

    Harassment and hounding, not. I don’t condone harassment on the part of anyone else, why should I let it slide when a regular does it?

    The interesting question, Caine, is if you really have such a low standard for what constitutes harassment — arguing on a blog comment thread — why do you exempt your own behavior?

  41. says

    Also, AE, recently, SG has said some very nasty shit about me and others. Things that aren’t true. That’s not a formidable opponent, it’s an asshole having a temper tantrum. So, I don’t view this whole thing the way you do, obviously. I will say that when you aren’t the one being harassed, it’s very easy to handwave that behaviour away.

    With that, this will be yet another incarnation of TET I’m out of, it’s enough for me. Besides, I really do have work to do. See you all next incarnation.

  42. Janine: History’s Greatest Monster says

    Jennifer, it was I who warned you about how MRA’s would point towards your moniker as an excuse for using gendered insults. If I were just posting at Pharyngula with this moniker, I would still use insults that MRA’s tossed my way as part of it. But I am lazy and do not want to change in case I feel commenting at an other blog.

    It all depends on how you feel about this. Just know that I will support you no matter what you choose. I was just happy to see an other “bitch” here. There are a fair number of us here. And how some of the bros really hate this.

  43. says

    What’s it like to feel love when you’re an authoritarian follower and a bitter, hateful, spiteful person?

    I have a hard time understanding why you’d think any of the above is contradictory, but, in any case — it seems to be the same as when I wasn’t, although it’s been a while, and memories aren’t always reliable.

    Well, I haven’t ever really been authoritarian, whether leader or follower, nor bitter, spiteful, or hateful. I’ve been chronically angry and depressed, but that’s not the same thing. It seems to me that a bitter, spiteful, hateful authoritarian would place a pretty low value on emotions like love. Would s/he perceive feeling it as some sort of weakness? I honestly don’t know. That’s why I’m asking.

    Interesting to find out that you haven’t always been. Is it authoritarian or bitter/hateful that you haven’t always been? It wasn’t clear from your wording.

    It all depends on how you feel about this. Just know that I will support you no matter what you choose. I was just happy to see an other “bitch” here. There are a fair number of us here. And how some of the bros really hate this.

    I was introduced to internet chat forums and vigorous, take-no-prisoners style debate via http://www.heartless-bitches.com and although I never received an actual card from them, have always thought of myself as a card-carrying Heartless Bitch ever since. I second the support for anyone who chooses such a ‘nym.

  44. says

    Weed Monkey, Sally, Jennifer and Cipher, thank you. Still crying. Fuckety fuck fuck. Oh gods, Mister is going to be devastated he didn’t get to see Chas one last time. Fuck.

  45. Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    Caine!

    I’m so sorry. :USB hugs:

  46. Aratina Cage says

    My condolencses, Caine. :( I’m glad you got to be there with Chas to the end.

  47. Ariaflame, BSc, BF, PhD says

    So sorry to hear about Chas, Caine. It sounded unexpected…

  48. Janine: History’s Greatest Monster says

    Caine, for what it is worth, you have my sympathy.

  49. John Morales says

    Caine, your pain goes not unnoticed, and indeed is why I’m procrastinating now that my wife is speaking of a puppy.

    My condolences.

    (I believe you; I’m convinced that rats are ‘people’ no less than are dogs, they’re just not humans)

  50. Janine: History’s Greatest Monster says

    (I believe you; I’m convinced that rats are ‘people’ no less than are dogs, they’re just not humans)

    No fucking shit, John. But humans can get emotionally attached to members of a an other species.

  51. Cipher, OM, MQ says

    *giant hugs, hot chocolate* :'( I’m heartbroken for you and Mister. He definitely had the best, most loving family a rat could ever hope for, and a great, active life, and he got to be with you til the end, at least. But those things don’t feel like big enough comforts right now, I’m sure :(


    You don’t just mean when I pointed out that you were lying about me, do you?

    *sigh*
    SG, you can’t honestly think that post was what she was talking about.(Although: at the time you made the distinction that she was mistaken, not lying. That’s probably a good thing to stick with, especially since she has already admitted to clumsy quoting, which I’m not sure why it doesn’t count as sufficient admission of error for you.) Probably more along the lines of this, which I know I would take as fairly hurtful were it aimed at me.

    Janine, I think that was actually what he was saying with the part about them being “people.” Could be wrong though.

  52. says

    Alethea, Gen, Crip Dyke, Ariaflame, Aratina Cage (heh, your nym gave me a much needed smile) and Janine, thank you so much.

    Chas took a very bad fall a while back and has been fighting off respiratory troubles since. I’ve had him on meds and he did rally, right up until the end. I took the shot of him in the Guinness glass just yesterday. It just got to be too much combined with old age. (For a rat, 2.5 is old.) Still, little monster was supposed to live forever.

    Esme & Rubin don’t know yet. Aratina Cage, yes, it was comforting to be with him at the end. I would have freaked if I had just gone to bed and found him in the morning. He did die quickly and quietly, for which I’m grateful.

  53. says

    So when I got singled out and harassed, and even told outright by sgbm that he was see you saying this, and Jadehawk saying this:

    And worse yet, I’ve caught myself not saying anything when a regular does/says something wrong, when I know for a fact that I would have said something if it had been a non-regular.

    I wonder if we’ve really got our priorities straight wrt fellow regulars.

    oh, no, you don’t. you do not get to misappropriate my comment like that.

    my complaint was about me letting regulars get away with intellectual dishonesty for the sake of in-group cohesion. it was not about not standing up to bullies. quite the opposite, since it’s partially the fear of being labeled a bully for being honest that keeps me from saying anything

    for example:

    Is there anyone who hasn’t established themselves as a harassing bully that wants to contest what I’ve (or, for that matter, what Caine has) said about sgbm?

    how much time would it take to also become a “harassing bully” if I keep on pointing out people’s complete misrepresentation of the things SG says?

  54. John Morales says

    Janine,

    No fucking shit, John. But humans can get emotionally attached to members of a an other species.

    Yes, indeed, we not only can, but do!

    (They can even be family)

    I thought I was making it quite make it clear that I’ve done my share of crying, and that my condolence is quite literal (if not specific) — if not then, then perhaps now.

  55. says

    Caine, your pain goes not unnoticed, and indeed is why I’m procrastinating now that my wife is speaking of a puppy.

    Oh, John. If it helps, dogs live much, much longer than rats. I do understand the reluctance of going through the pain at some point, though. Thank you for the condolences. I appreciate them.

  56. says

    Cipher:

    *giant hugs, hot chocolate* :’( I’m heartbroken for you and Mister. He definitely had the best, most loving family a rat could ever hope for, and a great, active life, and he got to be with you til the end, at least. But those things don’t feel like big enough comforts right now, I’m sure :(

    ♥ We’ll be okay. It’s the one thing that absolutely sucks about having rats, they die way too soon. Chas was a pure gift, he really was, him and Alfie.

  57. The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa) says

    Deflouncing momentarily. Chas just died in my arms. He was 2.5 years old. I have to cry now. Reflouncing.

    This seems so sudden! Was there any warning?

    My condolences. I hope Esme and Rubin (did I get the names right?) are doing OK.

  58. old man jenkins ॐ says

    It seems to me that a bitter, spiteful, hateful authoritarian would place a pretty low value on emotions like love. Would s/he perceive feeling it as some sort of weakness? I honestly don’t know. That’s why I’m asking.

    Oh. No, I don’t think that’d be particularly common. In the aggregate, generally what you’re looking at is a tendency toward avoidance behaviors rather than approach behaviors, but this manifests as in-group loyalty/insularity. So there is more love for family and friends than the approach-oriented type feels, but less love for generic others than the approach-oriented type feels.

    As for me, intellectually and aesthetically I’m big on promotion of love and empathy; I’m just not very good at it right now. I used to be a better person, as the old ~2008-2009 Sb archives showed.

    I think contempt-for-weakness is pretty much the worst thing ever. My sgbm-email contains some interesting conversations on this very problem, but neither I nor my correspondents seem to have figured out what causes it. Frustratingly, it doesn’t seem to be something that’s been directly studied, as far as I can tell.

    Interesting to find out that you haven’t always been. Is it authoritarian or bitter/hateful that you haven’t always been? It wasn’t clear from your wording.

    Both; I was an enthusiastically blissful young person from about fifteen years ago until about ten years ago, and I was still a liberal when I arrived at Pharyngula in 2008. (2007? Probably 2008.)

  59. Aratina Cage says

    @Caine, Fleur du mal
    I also want to say thanks to you for sharing the good times and bad times in Chas’s life with us on TET.

    little monster was supposed to live forever.

    I know that feeling all too well. I’ve had it for every critter I’ve raised and lived with. It hurts.

  60. John Morales says

    It hurts no less though one is aware of their lifespans; perhaps even more.

    (“Who Wants To Live Forever”)

  61. The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa) says

    John Morales:

    Caine, your pain goes not unnoticed, and indeed is why I’m procrastinating now that my wife is speaking of a puppy.

    As you all know, my old Golden Retriever is nearing the end of her courses, though the last few days she seems to have been feeling a bit better, and these are questions that have occured to me before.

    I suppose the real question is, does the pain of losing them when their time comes outweigh the happiness we (and they, we would hope) get from sharing our lives with them?

    I personally prefer to ‘be brave’, and say ‘no’. After all, we only miss them so hard when they’re gone because we loved them and were loved in turn so much while they were still here.

  62. says

    Thanks, Jadehawk. I’m really, really glad Chas & Alfie had their moments with Dust & Lint. That will always be a happy memory.

    TLC:

    This seems so sudden! Was there any warning?

    My condolences. I hope Esme and Rubin (did I get the names right?) are doing OK.

    Yes, there was warning. Between the respiratory problems and old age, I knew it could happen any time, but you know how it is, you hope they’ll just keep on going and be okay. Esme is a bit freaked, but alright at the moment. I expect she’ll freak the fuck out in a day or so. Chas was her Daddy, her mentor, her protector, all that. Rubin doesn’t know yet.

  63. old man jenkins ॐ says

    *sigh*

    Cipher, thanks for your reply; in light of her loss, I’m not inclined to argue about it right now. But I read what you said and clicked on the links, so it wasn’t a wasted effort on your part.

  64. Cipher, OM, MQ says

    Cipher, thanks for your reply; in light of her loss, I’m not inclined to argue about it right now. But I read what you said and clicked on the links, so it wasn’t a wasted effort on your part.

    Okay. Thanks for telling me.

  65. Louis says

    Caine, just logged in on my phone to send massive USB hugs across the ocean. Sorry to read about Chas. I shall raise some cheese in his honour tonight… Them follow it with some wine! ;-)

    Hope you feel better soon.

    Louis

  66. says

    Janine, that’s perfect.

    NuMad, thank you.

    SG, I appreciate the gesture a great deal. Thank you.

    Louis, thank you. Enjoy that cheese! Parmigiano-Reggiano was Chas’s fave. He had expensive tastes. :)

  67. Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    so, I’m not in any way trying to leech the sympathy that Caine needs right now, but I’ve started to see visa ads for the upcoming olympics and they focus on just the hands of various athletes.

    My brother was someone who was really and truly going to go to the Olympics. He was an elite competitor in the world of US collegiate Olympics as a sophomore. As a junior he was the #1 gymnast on a top 5 program… right up until he found out that a malformed bone process was rubbing against one of his major tendons – in his shoulder, and though he was good at all the events, he was especially amazing at the rings. The rings just created too much stress. He was told that he’d already worn a hole through the tendon and that further gymnastics could cause it to snap, leaving him with majorly reduced function.

    He was so good that when I watched the Olympics, I (as a non-gymnast) would be, “Humph. He won’t score that high, I’ve seen M- do all the same things just as well.” Maybe there were deficiencies in his abilities, but they were beyond my notice. So when he found out mid-season during the first year he had a real shot at placing in the all-around at nationals that his career was up and over, it was pretty crushing.

    It’s not that he never had any joy after that, but he never really recovered either. He died of suicide 3 years ago. Now every time I see this ad I’m thinking of him.

    It’s not immediate, and I almost didn’t mention it because of Chas, but however distant it is, I still very much miss my brother and I found it surprisingly hard to look at those photos of strong, chalked hands.

  68. Aratina Cage says

    I think the pain of loss is in some ways a measure of how great a time we had (or expected to have) with the one who died. Something like: The more positively they affected our lives, the more painful it is to realize they are gone. So that kind of pain isn’t all that bad (as long as it doesn’t trigger or exacerbate a depression or worse).

  69. Janine: History’s Greatest Monster says

    Crip Dyke, it is hard to say just what might trip memories like that. You have my condolences.

  70. says

    TLC:

    I suppose the real question is, does the pain of losing them when their time comes outweigh the happiness we (and they, we would hope) get from sharing our lives with them?

    For me, no. By the way, what happened with the little rat you rescued?

  71. Cipher, OM, MQ says

    :(
    *hugs to Crip Dyke* I’m so sorry to hear of that. Although I can’t begin to imagine how must that must hurt, I can understand how those commercials would be hard for you to see.
    And don’t worry, we’ve got sympathy to spare.

  72. Janine: History’s Greatest Monster says

    If one could say they have a favorite song about a loved one committing suicide, this would be mine.

    Sweet Old World-Lucinda Williams

  73. says

    Crip Dyke:

    It’s not that he never had any joy after that, but he never really recovered either. He died of suicide 3 years ago. Now every time I see this ad I’m thinking of him.

    It’s not immediate, and I almost didn’t mention it because of Chas, but however distant it is, I still very much miss my brother and I found it surprisingly hard to look at those photos of strong, chalked hands.

    Oh my. This must be a difficult time for you, to say the least. I imagine the feelings evoked are complex. I am so sorry for your loss.

    Please, don’t ever hold back on something like this (or anything else, for that matter) because of me. Grief is grief and it is a tiny bit lighter to bear for sharing it.

  74. The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa) says

    Caine: I’m still trying to work with her a bit. Lately she’s been showing a few signs of increased curiousity and coming out of her nest. It’s hard to work with her too much because if she gets loose in the house, that’s pretty much it. too many hiding spots.

  75. says

    TLC:

    Caine: I’m still trying to work with her a bit. Lately she’s been showing a few signs of increased curiousity and coming out of her nest. It’s hard to work with her too much because if she gets loose in the house, that’s pretty much it. too many hiding spots.

    That’s great! I understand that “oh gods, if she gets loose” paranoia all too well. I never had to worry about that with Chas & Alfie, but if Rubin were to get out of my studio, I’d probably never see him again. Did you ever name her?

  76. Lyn M, Purveyor of Fine Aphorisms of Death says

    @ Caine

    My condolences, too. It does hurt a lot.

    I’m tearing up here reading the comments and thinking about my old cat who died at age 17. To have had the companionship, the funny moments when a personality showed through and the affection. It’s worth it.

  77. Aratina Cage says

    @Crip Dyke, that has got to be very hard to have to deal with so unexpectedly in an ad. Sending cyber *hugs* your way.

  78. says

    Lyn M, thank you.

    I’m tearing up here reading the comments and thinking about my old cat who died at age 17.

    Ohhhh. It’s so hard, losing them. {hugses}

  79. The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa) says

    Nope Caine, ain’t named her yet. Feels weird trying to think of a name when I don’t even really ‘know’ her yet. I’m tempted to try this ‘forced socialization’ thing, but I have a feeling she has no problem biting if I do…

  80. John Morales says

    TLC, I know that I presume, but know that I think you got the sense of how much space to give her, so… my maybe worthless advice: (1) set up the space of interaction, first, so “escaping” is of no ultimate consequence and (2) employ PPE (gloves, at the least). Give it a chance, but take care.

    PS I tell you that I wouldn’t have advised this were it not that I imagine you will back off if you sense that’s what to do.

  81. says

    TLC:

    I’m tempted to try this ‘forced socialization’ thing, but I have a feeling she has no problem biting if I do…

    I’ve been bitten, more than once. It’s to be avoided, rat bites hurt like hell and can do damage, depending on where you get bit.

    Does she let you pick her up at all? If she does, you might want to try forced socialization. It’s difficult, keeping a rat in your hands for 20 minutes straight, but it does help a lot.

    If you don’t want to try it, I suggest the standard bribes – most all of them food. Ice cream or chocolate, bones (rats can have chicken bones), bits of meat, mac & cheese (a *huge* fave among the rat set), pizza (also a fave), eggs, etc. Calcium chews tend to be a big hit. Also, fresh salad at least a couple times a week. I get ours Fresh Farms Organic Spring Mix.

    You might want to try brief shoulder rides, too. It might also help to take a T-shirt you’ve worn all day and sacrifice it to her nest. The things we do… :D

    Oh – you can make a little harness out of pipe cleaners to attach to a light leash if you’re really worried about her getting away from you. (Rat harnesses are actually made, but why spend the money when you don’t have to? Besides, they cost a ridiculous amount of money.)

  82. Cipher, OM, MQ says

    Caine,
    Thanks to your post, I’m’na go have ice cream after I figure out where these notes go :D

  83. The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa) says

    John Morales and Caine: Thanks for the suggestions. I’m starting to get a few good ideas. I’m gonna need to somehow get her out of the cage eventually anyways… gonna need a cleaning soon.

  84. Lyn M, Purveyor of Fine Aphorisms of Death says

    Tries to visualize a rat harness

    Maybe like a troika? Only with tiny, tiny bells…

    Gives up

  85. says

    Cipher:

    Thanks to your post, I’m’na go have ice cream after I figure out where these notes go :D

    Good for you! There’s never a bad time for ice cream. :D

  86. Lyn M, Purveyor of Fine Aphorisms of Death says

    That’s actually kind of cute. Thanks for the link.

  87. says

    Good morning

    Caine
    She’s a great cat. It’s amazing the way she really, really wants to be around people. She’s a rescue and all that’s known of her is that she was found half starved. Kind of should expect her to be mortally afraid and mistrusting of people but she’s just the other way round.

    +++++

    It may also have to do with the fact that I’m fat and food policing is something I expect to happen regardless. “Do you think you need that?” may as well be ringing in my ears every day.

    I’m always slightly amused that. When talking about ethical concerns and environmental issues this comes from people on the internet who own computers and smartphones and all that stuff and who most likely take hot showers as well. I mean, do you really need those?

    I got a different kind of policing. “Don’t you think you should eat something? You should eat. You need to eat something. Eat! Of course you have to eat breakfast, what’s wrong with you? You’re going to the doctor!”

    I admit to having done that to #1. My excuse is that I was
    A) concerned for her health. She is underweight. A simple belly bug landed her in hospital since there are no reserves she could drain.
    B) I was afraid of people investigating me for parental neglect.
    I’ve grown out of it, mostly. She either eats or doesn’t. No dinner means no dessert, no lunch means no snacks until dinner. And I’ve learned that there’ll be days she hardly eats at all and then there’ll be days she won’t stop eating. Her weight/height ration stays the same, though…

    +++++
    re: circling
    My problem is that I supply the opinions of others “perfectly” myself, only making the mistake that I never let those monologues actually become dialogues to find out what they would actually say.

    ++++

    Beatrice, in case you missed it earlier, thanks for posting that link to Jason’s blog in the DJG thread.

    That’s the thing about Jason: He regularly fucks something up, but he also has the ability to come around again. That’s why I just like him.

    David
    Yay, So I’ll call my aunt and make sure I have a bed or three

    +++++

    one of those idealized in utero babies or whatever, I think, and the headline: “Pretend I’m A Tree & Save Me”.

    The obvious answer is pictures of tree stumps…

    +++++
    Things I hate:
    those small plastic thingies they use for tacking socks together

    Something I hate more: Last night #1 informed me about the importance of nail polish. I don’t think she was very happy with the “make-up is for grown-ups” reply I gave her. But I’m afraid that in this time and place I need to enforce a zero-tolerance policy. 15 years ago we could have had fun painting our finger and toenails all colours of the rainnbow ONE AFTERNOON, but now the only exception will be carnival.

    ++++++
    re: omlettes
    Now I want German pancakes

    +++++

    I wasn’t talking about Germany. In Germany, intercity trains that are 30 minutes late are a catastrophe of inhuman proportions.

    And sadly common. the worst thing is that slower trains will for the faster trains to arrive so people in there will get thier connection. This does not apply the other way round which once left me stranded at a godforsaken station (Bad Kreuznach) in the middle of the night: my slow train had left late because it had waited for an Intercity to arrive. The fast train I was supposed to catch left on time, of course.
    But yes, that’s a cliché that’s mostly true: Germans are puntual. Being late is considered a form of disrespect, because you take your time more important than mine (this only holds true if at least one side is puntual)

    +++++
    What is the little one doing with her sister’s skying trousers and how did she get them? Do I want to know that?

    Audley
    Only wait until breastfeeding-dementia sets in ;)

    Deflouncing momentarily. Chas just died in my arms. He was 2.5 years old. I have to cry now. Reflouncing.

    Oh Caine, I’m so sorry :(

  88. Cipher, OM, MQ says

    Caine, my best friend, whom I’ve occasionally mentioned and who has heard me squee over your rat and dog pictures/stories occasionally and has had them sent to him because they were so cute I had to share, sends his condolences as well. He sounded very sad.

    Ice cream is awesome.

    I got on a Rock Band 2 kick to follow the DDR one last night. I have no idea, but I apparently just really, really want to play loud video games late at night.

  89. Sarahface says

    Wow, I missed a lot.

    @Caine: My condolences and sympathies. I don’t have much experience with pets and the loss thereof, but I do know it really hurts :(

    *hugs* for Caine and Crip Dyke.

    And now, to spend a lovely sunday morning on FTB/the internet instead of at church with the rest of my family.

  90. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Condolences on the death of Chas Caine. A good and faithful pet.

  91. keenacat says

    Caine,
    so sorry for your loss! *hugs* Animals provide so much companionship and soothing company.

    Katherine,
    don’t be afraid! And remember, if you don’t click, look for another therapist. With a therapist, feeling safe and having trust is so important, it’s absolutely vital you pick one who instills just that.

    Crip dyke,
    *hugs*. There is enough consolation for everyone at TET.
    ________________________________________

    Today is tolerable.
    Yesterday evening I found out I had messed up on my statistics by using the wrong data set (missing the data of one participant). I’m such a huge idiot and now I have to correct everything, possibly including my poster. Fuckity fuck. I’m already behind on my dissertation thanks to the breakup, I didn’t need that on top of it.
    I also found out that the statistician I had been working with is on maternity leave. She didn’t notify me, and now I have pressing matters to discuss and a new statistician that doesn’t know the data. Cripes.
    The exboyfriend did call on friday, btw, to assure me he’d take care of the flat. He also said he wanted to talk soon. This shit stresses me out. I don’t know whether he wants to get back together or not.
    Problem being, this is how he works:
    http://cheezburger.com/6280544512
    And anxiety leads to him being unsure of his feelings for me. We’ve been through this twice. And while I desperately want him back and us to fix everything I can’t do this crap again. He’ll need to work on this, probably including therapy. And if he doesn’t want to do that… I’m not sure if I can just send him away, even though I should.
    Fuck my love life.

  92. RahXephon, Habitual Misspeaker says

    @Caine

    I’m so sorry, Caine! I’ve never lost a pet before, but I’m so attached to my cat I think I have at least some inkling of how I might feel if something happened to her.

  93. LDTR says

    Caine: wanted to add my condolences as well for the loss of your furry companion.

    I lost one of mine a couple of months ago. :-(

  94. opposablethumbs says

    Caine, I’m sorry about Chas. Never easy, even when you know it’s coming eventually.
    .
    Crip Dyke, that’s … well I don’t have the words for what that is. Fuck. I’m so very sorry.
    .
    Kitty, bon courage for tomorrow! I hope it gets off to a really good start.

  95. says

    Ex bred chihuahuas. They are genetically fucked up, so they tend to die frequently and of weird causes.
    Had our favourite one, Cate, a multiple championship winner blabla, fall over with a stroke one day a few years ago, we took her to the Vet hospital, CPR, intubation, the lot, she died of course, duh. I tend to try not to get too attached to animals now, enough pain and hurt to be gotten from human interaction.

  96. ChasCPeterson says

    old man jenkins (ha!) is merely asking people who misspoke or lied about things he said to admit it and set the record straight.
    Seems a reasonable request to me.
    Is persistence in pursuing a reasonable request ‘bullying’?

    Separate question: Is garden-variety ‘troll stomping’ ‘bullying’?

    [jenkins, sit over here by me. Want an onion for yer belt?]

  97. says

    Oh, and I love the old man jenkins nym. And the guy behind the nym I can deal with, but I will admit it takes some getting used to. Like, some years.

  98. LDTR says

    It hurts when a pet dies, but I would not trade the time I had with them for anything.

  99. says

    @Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort

    Tomorrow. I go to my therapist.

    TERRIFYING!!!

    I’ve always been of the opinion that if you have to ride into Hell, ride into Hell like you own the place.

    @Caine, Fleur du mal

    Sincerest commiserations to you. I know from losing several animals through the years that it is like having your best friend stolen away from you…the one that always listens no matter what.

  100. Ogvorbis says

    Happy Friday, one and all!

    Wife and I got to go out to dinner last night. Went to a Wolfgang Puck Express and the food was a good 8 out of 10. Best of all, we had coupons, so the meal only cost $10 out of $25!

    This entire week has been one of going backwards. Every fucking project I start working on on the computer has gone backwards. Now, I am very careful with both my writing and my graphics to save to new files after every major change, but, with the graphics especially, every thing I do makes the fucking thing worse. Luckily it is only a portion of my job and my boss is sorta pseudo understanding.

    I almost stopped reading at the omelet… because it’s an utterly bizarre idea to put cheese into an omelet.

    Cheese omelettes are excellent. Add some brie to a ham and sweet onion omelette. Or cheddar to one with peppers and onions. Or (never mind. the list could go on and on and on).

    My omelettes have the ingredients mixed in. Then I sprinkle more cheese over the eggs when they are almost set and put the pan under a broiler to brown the top. Works nicely.

    On that note (kind of), does anyone have any suggestions for a decent digital kitchen timer?

    Most microwave ovens have a digital timer that can be operated with the microwave turned off. You say you want extra features? This’ll not only be a timer, but will heat things as well.

    Mr Darkheart has finally felt the DF move!

    He giggled. :)

    Fantastic. I remember not just feeling the foetal movement but, later in Wife’s pregnancy, actually seeing it. That is some weird shit.

    But I’m squee! The transit of Venus is on the 5th/6th!

    Ain’t gonna happen. The transit budget got cut so we can give another tax break to the job creators and their pet Mercedes Benz’.

    Deflouncing momentarily. Chas just died in my arms. He was 2.5 years old. I have to cry now. Reflouncing.

    Hugs and chocolate to you, Caine. You have my sympathy.

    It’s not that he never had any joy after that, but he never really recovered either. He died of suicide 3 years ago. Now every time I see this ad I’m thinking of him.

    The ways that our memory is accessed can be strange. Whether it is smell, a particular activity, a particular body part, taste, feeling, whatever. Stay safe when you start randomly accessing your memories. Every time I see an advert telling people not to drink and drive it brings back memories of my sister — the memories are no longer a sledgehammer (she was killed in 1988) but more of a jeweler’s hammer now. Anyway, I think I understand and sympathize.

  101. says

    I was going to write a “why i wont be attending the GAC 2014″ post a la Rebecca, but i may wait until tomorrow. More people on blogs should be aware of the “Preussische Beschwerdeordnung”. Let it sit for 24 hours, then reconsider.

  102. Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    @keenacat:

    Thank you.

    My divorce was from someone who seems similar to me to what you describe… with the added benefit of **talking about things** provoking anxiety, thus avoidance (big time!) and guilt. There was *no talking* because that might lead to change, which she wanted, but which she couldn’t tolerate b/c *change*!!!

    Oy. So I never knew how bad things were for her. It’s not that I wasn’t unhelpful to her, but I couldn’t possibly be helpful *enough* with the info I had. And, worse, her withdrawal/avoidance made things very difficult for me and she didn’t like it when I got sad and/or depressed so there were feedback effects. Oy.

    Anyway, I love her a ton, but there’s no way we’ll ever be together again. I don’t know if the same is true for you and your ex, but the cycle you’re on sounds familiar and it was very destructive in my life.

    Also, barely a year and a half after we first separated and a bit over a year from when we really called it quits I met Ms Crip Dyke. This relationship is stunningly different from every other one I’ve had. My best previous relationship we had the communication and teamwork, but we had very different approaches to relationships. She got security through never making promises (can’t be disappointed) and I got it through making assumptions and promises explicit. Did. Not. Work. Other relationships were short or I was just young – things might have worked out with a bit more experience to make us realize that assumptions were just that, but maybe they would have faltered on other rocks.

    In any way, the point is that I’d had good relationships. Real relationships. But they had real and fatal flaws. I was so sad, so devastated over the divorce (and even more over how it was handled) that I really didn’t think I’d get a chance to have a real partnership.

    I’ve got one now. It’s loving. It’s amazing to me. The communication is fantastic and we each desire the other and her kids warm my heart. Because we can speak about our assumptions, needs, and desires, I know that we want the same things out of a relationship. I also know that where we differ (such as where we might prefer to live), it’s something about which we can talk and over which the differences don’t seem now to be insurmountable.

    There’s good stuff out there keenacat. You have a lot invested, and it’s sad to see something end. But this is either going to turn into a new relationship since his behavior is not tenable over the long term…or you’ll someday have exactly the relationship you want with someone else.

    Of course, people in love are insufferably optimistic, so take this with a shaker of salt. But I’m wishing you the best.

  103. theophontes (坏蛋) says

    @ Caine

    Chas just died in my arms.

    So sorry to hear this. It really felt like Chas belonged here on Pharyngula.

    @ Kitty

    Sterkte! (and hugz)

  104. says

    Caine, so sorry to hear about Chas. In the past or so I’ve heard more about him than some of my nieces and nephews, and that Guinness glass pic was majorly cute.

    “Really a great rat” is a better epitaph than a lot of humans have earned.

  105. carlie says

    I’m so sorry, Crip Dyke. From the story you gave, this will be the first Olympics without your brother? And the one before this was the one where all the hopes of competing were already gone? It will definitely be a difficult summer – please vent all you need to.

    Caine – it was really clear how much you loved Chas. I’m so sorry.

    keenacat – can you tell him to email you instead? That way the timing of when you deal with it is totally under your control. You can tell him that he can write it all down now to get it out of his system, but that you’re on your own schedule as to when you’ll read it. You don’t owe him anything regarding this breakup. He started it, he can deal with not getting to make you take care of his emotions. His “I want to talk now” is not your problem. Because even if it’s about him wanting to get together, you need a lot of time to decide what you’d need from him to even consider it. You now know that he’s the type of person who can and would leave you, and that really changes what you would need from any future relationship with him.

    Katherine – yay! Just remember, you can always run screaming from the office in the middle of the visit if it gets too difficult. ;) Just keeping that mental image in mind might help make it seem less daunting.

  106. d(thunk) over d(MQG) = SQRRAWK! says

    Caine: Oh ouch. Sorry for Chas. :( *condolences, hugs, etc*

    Kat: Don’t worry; you’ll be fine! (like others have said)

    Br. Og:

    Ain’t gonna happen. The transit budget got cut so we can give another tax break to the job creators and their pet Mercedes Benz’.

    WHAAAAAT? *organizes angry mob and hands out pitchforks*

    Keenacat: More condolences with the breakup and your stalled dissertation.

  107. says

    Hi there

    Katherine
    My good thoughts are with you
    You’ve come such a long way already.

    Keenacat
    What you tell about your ex sounds like he really needs to get his shit together before he can get together with anybody.
    And it’s not very loving and caring to do this three times to somebody whom he knows to suffer from depression already.
    Second what carlie said: Tell him to write you a mail.
    Also follow rorschach and the preußische Beschwerdeordnung.
    (((big hugs)))

    ++++
    Hmm, sometimes I think that Rebecca Watson gets her priorities wrong: At the start of her talk she warns parents about the fakt that she curses. I’d be rather more concerned about the talk about sexual violence*
    *It’s something you need to cover, but at the right moment, at the right age, with the right words.

  108. David Marjanović says

    Chas just died in my arms.

    *hug*
    *squeeze*
    *cocoa shell tea*

    I’ve come to like him myself, you know.

    I just showed Chas to Esme. She climbed on him, groomed him and nipped him gently in several places, trying to get a reaction. She’s in my shirt now.

    Chas & Alfie had their moments with Dust & Lint

    …want… …photos… …so badly…

    It’s not that he never had any joy after that, but he never really recovered either. He died of suicide 3 years ago. Now every time I see this ad I’m thinking of him.

    :-( *hug* *sweet chai*

    I’m tearing up here reading the comments and thinking about my old cat who died at age 17. To have had the companionship, the funny moments when a personality showed through and the affection. It’s worth it.

    *hug* *lemongrass/rooibos tea*

    ░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░

    FYI, I do it too. And worse yet, I’ve caught myself not saying anything when a regular does/says something wrong, when I know for a fact that I would have said something if it had been a non-regular. Catching myself at this was one of the original reasons I stopped being part of the social life on Pharyngula.

    *lightbulb moment*

    Ah. Well, I interpreted “brutal, vicious honesty” more loosely. I come from a family where passive-aggression is an art form, and to me it’s brutally honest to say “you’re wrong” straight up than couching it in vague language like “Hmm, I don’t think I agree, hrm, maybe you don’t have that right”. [...]

    I admit, part of what drove me away from Shakesville was the constant drumbeat of “you screwed up, you screwed up, you screwed up”. It didn’t feel conducive to building confidence and rapport. It’s really hard to disassociate “you’re correcting me on what I said” with “you don’t like me”, at least in my head. It’s why I hated school so much; grades became personal attacks. Maybe there’s some of that at play.

    That’s… infuriating, that there are families that bring children up in such a way.

    Instead of posing yourself as untrustworthy, maybe it should be more like you’re not yet worthy of trust? (That sounded more like a distinction in my head.) That’s how most people treat strangers. Just because I keep you at arm’s length doesn’t mean I think you’re gonna stab me. The latter takes active suspicion on my part rather than passive defensiveness.

    *like*

    Here in midwestern USA, an omelet is beaten-up eggs gently-fried into a disc and folded over cheese and other stuff. If it doesn’t have a filling—almost always including cheese—it’s just a bad job of making scrambled eggs.

    Pour oil in pan. Scramble eggs; pour homogenized eggs (with optional milk added) in pan. Add pepper, salt, herbs, spices, optionally bacon or ham. Fry till it’s solid. It’s maybe half a cm thick. Usually eaten with potatoes; never folded, never lands on your plate in one piece.

    I think you misread me due to my usual carelessness resulting in ambiguity, because I overestimated your acumen.

    No, you overestimated the degree to which people think like each other.

    Did you grow up alone, or with siblings or the like? I wonder if people in our general region of the autism spectrum need to grow up with different people to figure this out to any large extent.

    Given that ‘it’ refers to my claim

    See, I thought it referred to his suggestion that others, if feeling emotionally ambiguous about him, should regard him as an enemy. I thought it meant you thought at first he was joking/exaggerating and now think he’s serious about that.

    Where did we (as a culture) get this idea that it’s acceptable to be late?

    In, like, France, it seems to be considered rude to show up on time* when being invited for dinner – it makes you look hungry, if not outright greedy.

    Politeness is a lot more arbitrary than you seem to think. That’s why I hate it so much. All of it.

    * I don’t think I ever did… but I definitely planned to… :-)

    Do we think that we’re really so important that no one will mind when we interrupt whatever’s going on and that people are willingly going to wait for us without getting frustrated?

    You’re implying that when people are late, it’s their fault, not attributable to external circumstances.

    Because when it’s not their fault… “interrupt”? Why were you so inconsiderate to begin without them? Are they so unimportant to you that you don’t care whether they’re even present? If so, why do you get angry when they’re not showing up on time?

    Of course, my own issues are showing through in the above paragraph. I’m a bit too used to not mattering to people.

    And don’t take it personally. The attitude you describe is normal in this culture.

    and now, for something completely different:

    http://fdiv.net/2012/01/20/pseudo-science-and-pseudo-feminism-women-dont-ask

    :-o Wow.

    From there:

    “The wildest claim of all is, paradoxically, the one the authors chose for the title of the book. The evidence that women don’t ask consists of: one unpublished survey of Carnegie Mellon graduates, one study of 74 Carnegie Mellon students playing Boggle for money, one internet survey with loaded questions, and a pile of anecdotes handpicked by authors on a mission to prove that women don’t ask.”

    *epic headdesk*

    That’s a good lesson in science theory. I had taken for granted that women don’t ask, because it simply makes sense: women are, more often than men, socialized to shut up, avoid conflict, and make me a sammich, while everyone is socialized to despise aggressive hags but to have no problem with men behaving the exact same way. Turns out that making sense doesn’t make it true!

    Also, I had taken for granted that women not asking wasn’t the only reason for the pay gap. Turns out some media reception of the book apparently did claim it was the only reason – and thus blamed the victims.

    “Where does the number ‘half a million dollars’ come from? Did someone conduct a survey and find out that women who negotiate their starting salary end up making half a million dollars more than women who don’t?

    Nope. The number comes from a thought experiment. In other words, the authors just made it up.”

    AAAARRRRRGNNNNN!!!

    “Where a boss can even punish a woman who dares to be aggressive by sending her to Bully Broads, a program that teaches women to ‘speak more slowly and softly, hesitate or stammer when presenting their ideas, use self-deprecating humor, and even allow themselves to cry at meetings’.

    I know the authors know this, because every one of those examples comes from Women Don’t Ask. Yet somehow that didn’t stop them from presenting a meaningless thought experiment. Twice. (The second time, the man gets $2,120,731 more than the woman.)”

    I’m out of words.

    *goes and gets a sword and jumps into a pond*

    :-D

    Do they really think that someone who is passing through on their way to get an abortion will think, “hey, that’s right. My mother chose not to have an abortion. Guess I shouldn’t do it either.” (Where do I put the question mark in that sentence?)

    You omit the period from the end of the quote and put the question mark behind the quote! :-)

    I wasn’t talking about Germany. In Germany, intercity trains that are 30 minutes late

    What, that HAPPENS!?!?! *running away screaming*

    For a talk or seminar or something, early is required

    In Germany and Austria, almost everything academic begins with the academic quarter, means, about 15 minutes later than scheduled. An official Austrian university hour has 45 minutes; a block course of 4 hours lasts 3 hours. This is often made clear by writing “c.t.”, cum tempore (Latin: “with time”), as in “begin at 12 ct”; if you actually mean the time you write, the usual solution is “s.t.”, sine tempore, “without time”.

    Clearly, you’re the one who’s wrong.

    Probably due to Coriolis effects.

    :-D

    I wish I didn’t hate my paper so much. Otherwise I think I’d really like it.

    :-) Do explain.

    * But which are pretty evident; e.g. VP refers to a verb phrase.

    How many people have ever encountered the term verb phrase? I have, but only in linguistics contexts on the Internet, and I’m still not sure what it means (because I haven’t bothered to really look it up).

    Yes; I often find myself just trying to agree with you all and silence dissent in my mind because I fear getting on your bad side. I should really stop that.

    + 1

    in the case of SG, he seems to thrive on fighting

    My impression is he 1) simply can’t stop (SIWOTI syndrome); 2) has been through such loads of shit that he’s used to feeling like he’s fighting for his life.

    Reminds me of an awesome pair of houses beside an on-ramp. You could see down onto their rooves. First house had put white shingles on a dark roof to spell out “jesus lives”. Next roof had done the same, but spelled out, “So does Elvis.” They were the only two houses for miles. Must have made for great neighbours.

    Awesome.

    Mr Darkheart has finally felt the DF move!

    He giggled. :)

    :-)

    Is there anyone who hasn’t established themselves as a harassing bully that wants to contest what I’ve (or, for that matter, what Caine has) said about sgbm?

    What exactly? Everyone has said so many different things, and I haven’t kept track.

    That he’s a bully? To me he always seems desperate and, at worst, obsessive-compulsive – not casual or sadistic like a bully, and I was bullied a lot, too.

    What I can say for sure is that the combination of the two of you is one of the worst possible. You’re very emotional; on PET, you freak out every day (over things that deserve outrage, mind you – you just flip out more than other people). sgbm routinely says things that cannot help cause outrage (unless maybe if they’re parsed with autistic detachment), and unlike many people he makes no attempt to cause as little outrage as possible. Put the two of you together, and I’ll pull the fume hood window way down, stay way back, put my fingers in my ears and open my mouth.

    To be crude and blunt (and hopefully less ambiguous), it was an euphemistic allusion to your being a crippled dyke

    *lightbulb moment* I had never made the connection between “crip” and “crippled”. I had simply treated “crip” as meaningless or of unknown meaning.

    I think contempt-for-weakness is pretty much the worst thing ever.

    Seconded.

    David
    Yay, So I’ll call my aunt and make sure I have a bed or three

    :-) :-) :-)

    I have room, too, and a total of 2 air mattresses. Only 1 sleeping bag, though, but 2 extra bedsheets.

    “Really a great rat” is a better epitaph than a lot of humans have earned.

    Heh.

    keenacat – can you tell him to email you instead? That way the timing of when you deal with it is totally under your control. You can tell him that he can write it all down now to get it out of his system, but that you’re on your own schedule as to when you’ll read it. You don’t owe him anything regarding this breakup. He started it, he can deal with not getting to make you take care of his emotions. His “I want to talk now” is not your problem. Because even if it’s about him wanting to get together, you need a lot of time to decide what you’d need from him to even consider it. You now know that he’s the type of person who can and would leave you, and that really changes what you would need from any future relationship with him.

    All seconded.

  109. David Marjanović says

    Keenacat
    What you tell about your ex sounds like he really needs to get his shit together before he can get together with anybody.
    And it’s not very loving and caring to do this three times to somebody whom he knows to suffer from depression already.
    Second what carlie said: Tell him to write you a mail.
    Also follow rorschach and the preußische Beschwerdeordnung.
    (((big hugs)))

    ++++
    Hmm, sometimes I think that Rebecca Watson gets her priorities wrong: At the start of her talk she warns parents about the fakt that she curses. I’d be rather more concerned about the talk about sexual violence*
    *It’s something you need to cover, but at the right moment, at the right age, with the right words.

    All QFT.

  110. Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan says

    Caine: Hugs and more to you and the household. I’ll raise a glass for Chas tonight. Thanks to you posting tibits about him and the crew, I now understand why rats really do make such fun pets. RIP Chas.
    ————————————————–

    Keencat: Wow. Just . . . wow. On the very slim chance he decides he wants to get back together, I think you should decline. No, don’t worry about him pitching a fit – you KNOW now what you’d be in for if you said yes: It’d really just be the same old, same old stuff you’ve been dealing with already. Right now, get yourself sorted out. If you must talk to him for some reason, be civil, as hard as that may be. Be civil, and cut it short if things start going in a direction you’re not at ease with.

    However, this comes from someone who hasn’t had such a horrible breakup yet, so here’s some salt for you.
    —————————————————

    I’m staying out the whole SGBM thing for now. Limited exchanges with him and the killfiling leave me thinking I don’t have enough background to say anything substantial yet.
    —————————————————

    Audley: Let us know his reaction when he sees DF move. Many seem to find that first moment to be very WTF. Makes sense, it’s not every day of life that people see a foot make a print from inside someone’s body.

  111. David Marjanović says

    Jadehawk, are you still awake or already awake? And, either way, why aren’t you visibly tired?

    (I’ll probably take a nap now. Dark weather, stayed up too late again as documented in the previous page of this subthread, and I’ve at least eaten soup now. Primitive onion soup; not outright good, but entirely edible.)

  112. birgerjohansson says

    Caine, my condolences.
    Pets ARE family members. ““Really a great rat” is a better epitaph than a lot of humans have earned.” Seconded.

    Keenacat: More condolences
    — — — — —
    I am threadrupt, so I can make little sense of who stated name-calling.
    I have stayed away from media this weekend, cannot stomach more news about the economy.

  113. Sili says

    Just got the report on my UFO. It is now an IFO.

    You were right: It’s most likely a balloon lantern.

    Scary how easy it is to convince myself, that that couldn’t possibly be right because of the speed. Far too hard to judge distance and speed even when knowing it’s hard …

    Fuck you, Dunning-Kruger.

  114. louis14 says

    Sorry to butt in on this thread, but I’m wondering if anyone here can help me track down a blog post that PZ made several months back. It was countering the charge that there’s much more money to be made in climate change science if you’re on the ‘yes, it’s happening’ side.

    PZ showed some figures that contradicted this. IIRC they showed more broadly where the real money is in science these days, and that climate change was a very poor relation.

    I’m having trouble finding the post though – any help would be gratefully received.

  115. David Marjanović says

    I don’t know. is waking up at 2am “still” or “already”?

    Waking up is “already”. :-) And in several ways, it’s awesome.

  116. dianne says

    Largely threadrupt but delurking to say,

    Caine, I’m sorry for your loss.

    Keenacat: Don’t do it. Don’t take your ex back, at least not until you’ve both had a lot of therapy. His action was not a fluke. He’ll do it again and probably at the worst possible moment. He needs to find a better way to cope with anxiety and you need to find a way to not be tempted to take him back at status quo every time he leaves. (Caution: Close family member was in a similar relationship dynamic at one point and my advice may be colored by my feelings about that relationship…take with appropriate dose of NaCl.)

  117. says

    More proof that Mitt Romney is, at best, clueless when it comes to the rights of minorities and women. My bet is that he still doesn’t think he did anything wrong when he trashed an affirmaative action hiring policy for state government in Massachusetts.

    Mitt Romney scuttled the Massachusetts government’s long-standing affirmative action policies with a few strokes of his pen on a sleepy holiday six months after he became governor.

    No news conference or news release trumpeted Romney’s executive order on Bunker Hill Day, June 17, 2003, in the deserted Statehouse. But when civil rights leaders, black lawmakers and other minority groups learned of Romney’s move two months later, it sparked a public furor.

    Romney drew criticism for cutting the enforcement teeth out of the law and rolling back more than two decades of affirmative action advances.

    Civil rights leaders said his order stripped minorities, women, disabled people and veterans of equal access protections for state government jobs and replaced them with broad guidelines. They complained Romney hadn’t consulted them before making the changes, snubbing the very kind of inclusion he professed to support….

    “I believe our nation is at its best when people are evaluated as individuals,” he said in a 2008 Washington Post issues survey. “I do support encouraging inclusiveness and diversity, and I encourage the disclosure of the numbers of women and minorities in top positions of companies and government — not to impose a quota but to shine light on the situation.”…

    Alkins [Leonard Alkins, head of NAACP Boston branch] said Romney never seemed to grasp that the aim of the state’s affirmative action policies was to protect people who were wrongfully denied equal rights in the workplace.

    “I felt that the governor was out of touch,” said Alkins. “He was very uncomfortable with the issue of race and how you would address issues such as affirmative action.”…

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/world/54231666-68/romney-action-affirmative-state.html.csp?page=1

  118. old man jenkins ॐ says

    [jenkins, sit over here by me. Want an onion for yer belt?]

    Old Man Peterson, you’re too kind. I don’t hardly feel I deserve to wear one o yer onions. *snif*

    +++++

    Oh, and I love the old man jenkins nym.

    All credit goes to RahXephon. (And all glory to the hypnotoad.)

  119. says

    George Pyle wrote a dood essay discussing why faith should not determine public policy — excerpts below.

    …churches don’t have religious freedom. People do. And people remain free not to use contraception. Just as people remain free to refuse other kinds of medical treatment — say, blood transfusions — if their conscience — guided by, say, the faith known as Jehovah’s Witness — tells them to.

    But there is no lawsuit right now challenging government-mandated or government-subsidized coverage of transfusions. Is that just because there are more Catholics than Witnesses? Or is it because modern civilization, mostly, knows that both contraception and transfusions are bare-bones basic, part of any health care plan worthy of the name?

    Or because the full emancipation of women, possible only with universal access to contraception, is the greatest single step ever taken toward the elimination of poverty? The Catholic Church, like most churches, is heard to stand against poverty. Straddling that inconsistency has gotta hurt….

  120. says

    Caine:

    Darkfetus is feeding on your braaaiiinz.

    Zombie fetus! NOOOOOOOOOO!

    John:

    Highlander II: The Quickening(1991)

    I’m pretty sure that’s what started this whole business– someone pointed out that the DF is “quickening”, so Carlie pointed out that I’m carrying THE ONLY ONE. :D

    Caine:

    Chas just died in my arms.

    Oh no! *love*

    I’m going to second John:

    (I believe you; I’m convinced that rats are ‘people’ no less than are dogs, they’re just not humans)

    I know how much you loved him and I know how special he was to you. I’m so sorry to hear that he passed.

    TLC:

    Feels weird trying to think of a name when I don’t even really ‘know’ her yet.

    Yeah… that’s how we ended up with a cat named “Pickles”.

    In hindsight, she is definitely not a “Pickles”.

    (Although, you might not want to wait *too* long. That’s how Mr Darkheart ended up with a rat named “Rat”– he was was waiting until a name popped, and suddenly he got to the point where Rat would only respond to, well, “Rat”.)

    Giliell:

    Only wait until breastfeeding-dementia sets in ;)

    Wait, what?

    Why did no one tell me this stuff before I got all preggers? Harrumph.

    Oggie:

    Happy Friday, one and all!

    And a happy Sunday to you, good sir!

    Most microwave ovens have a digital timer that can be operated with the microwave turned off.

    Yeah, I know.

    I keep my timers on the fan hood above my stove for easy access– the way that my long, narrow kitchen is set up means that the fridge is inconveniently far away from food prep/cooking surfaces. Here’s the kicker: my microwave is on top of the fridge because I so rarely use it. (Defrosting meat, very occasionally. Sometimes reheating cups of coffee. I’ve been honestly thinking about just throwing the damned useless thing out.)

    I remember not just feeling the foetal movement but, later in Wife’s pregnancy, actually seeing it.

    He’s already wigging himself out in anticipation of that. Poor guy. :D

    David M:

    Politeness is a lot more arbitrary than you seem to think.

    Oh no, I totally get this. It changes from region to region here in the States, too– the issue of what constitutes “on time” is different for a New Yorker and a person from Georgia.

    But: 1) chronic lateness is a pet peeve of mine* and 2) when in doubt, aim for the invited time.

    *I’m going to go ahead and blame all of the people I’ve worked with who can’t be bothered to show up to their job on time.

    You’re implying that when people are late, it’s their fault, not attributable to external circumstances.

    Come on, David. I know you read my whole post and you know that I specifically addressed this concern:

    (Getting held up (traffic or whatever) is, of course, totally excusable.)

    I’m not so impatient that I don’t grok that there will always be unavoidable circumstances that will cause people to be late.

    Why were you so inconsiderate to begin without them? Are they so unimportant to you that you don’t care whether they’re even present?

    We weren’t discussing a one-on-one situation or a small group where it would be natural to wait, you know.

    In a party situation (or a bridal shower, which was what Nutmeg was asking about), the hostess will inevitably start the festivities before every guest has arrived. Depending on what has been planned out, this might not be a big deal (if you’re starting with cocktails and whatnot), but if there are activities planned, the late people may very well be interrupting.

    Since the original question was about when it was polite to arrive and I already said that unplanned holdups are totes understandable, I would think that you could cut me some slack.

    Of course, my own issues are showing through in the above paragraph. I’m a bit too used to not mattering to people.

    What?? David, that’s extremely shitty. *hugs* *Girl Scout cookies* *a kitty to snuggle on your lap*

  121. says

    PTI:

    Let us know his reaction when he sees DF move. Many seem to find that first moment to be very WTF. Makes sense, it’s not every day of life that people see a foot make a print from inside someone’s body

    .

    OH YE GODS, IT’S A CHEST-BURSTER!

    *runs from room, flailing and screaming*

    (… Actually, I left to check to see if my bacon’s still good.)

  122. dianne says

    In Germany, intercity trains that are 30 minutes late

    In Switzerland if a train is 2 minutes late everyone says, “It must have come from Germany.” Because the Germans are the always late slobs who never do anything with any precision in the Swiss world view.

    For an American, OTOH, trains that RUN, go to useful places, and cost less than your monthly rent are such a miracle that we rarely complain about a mere 30 minute delay.

  123. Nutmeg says

    Caine: I’m so sorry about Chas. *hugs*

    Katherine: Good luck at the therapist’s tomorrow! Congratulations on taking this step.

  124. ImaginesABeach says

    That’s how Mr Darkheart ended up with a rat named “Rat”– he was was waiting until a name popped, and suddenly he got to the point where Rat would only respond to, well, “Rat”

    That’s how I ended up with cats named Him and Her.

  125. dianne says

    Yesterday evening I found out I had messed up on my statistics by using the wrong data set (missing the data of one participant). I’m such a huge idiot and now I have to correct everything, possibly including my poster. Fuckity fuck. I’m already behind on my dissertation thanks to the breakup, I didn’t need that on top of it.
    I also found out that the statistician I had been working with is on maternity leave. She didn’t notify me, and now I have pressing matters to discuss and a new statistician that doesn’t know the data. Cripes.

    FWIW, this is a pretty standard set of problems getting in the way of completing a project. Two people involved with personal issues, a bit of the data entered slightly wrong, a correction to a conference proceedings…we’ve all been there. I’m sorry things didn’t go more smoothly, but don’t panic. No one will think you’re an idiot for this mistake (with the possible exception of yourself.) Everyone has done it.

  126. Ogvorbis says

    Oh, and Audley? Boy was watching one of the Aliens movies. I walked in just as the larvae came out through a guys chest. You might want to avoid thinking about those movies while you are pregnant. So don’t read what I just wrote as it will remind you.

  127. says

    Audley

    Why did no one tell me this stuff before I got all preggers? Harrumph.

    You didn’t ask :)
    I guess nobody told you about lochia either *muahaha*

    David
    *hot Glückstee*
    Thanks for the offer, but be aware that I travel with The Passion of Christ and The Wrath of God (aka #1 and the little one).
    I have a big fat bunch of family in Berlin who have invited me so often (it’s a shame I haven’t been there in 4 years) that I really need to get on their nerves :)

    ++++

    Oh, I had an idea.
    Since DJ Grothe seems to think that sexual harassment is an extraordinary claim that must be met with skepticism, maybe women could mail him their weekly update, you know like those women who left their menstruational update on the FB wall of that conservative guy….

  128. says

    Dianne:

    For an American, OTOH, trains that RUN, go to useful places, and cost less than your monthly rent are such a miracle that we rarely complain about a mere 30 minute delay.

    Oh my lord, this.

    Here’s my frustrating train story:
    I used to take the train from upstate NY to visit Mr Darkheart when he was at school in Cleveland. It was supposed to be an 8.5 hour train ride (which is roughly the amount of time that it takes to drive that distance), but there was one trip where it took 14 hours. Plus the damned thing was overbooked, so I didn’t have a seat. I ended up spending the night in the smoking car (do they even have those any more?) drinking Red Dog with some lovely gentlemen from New York City.

    Part of the problem in the US is that passenger trains must give way to freight trains. You get a heavy night for shipping and, well, travelers are royally screwed.

    Oggie:

    Boy was watching one of the Aliens movies. I walked in just as the larvae came out through a guys chest. You might want to avoid thinking about those movies while you are pregnant. So don’t read what I just wrote as it will remind you.

    :D

    It’s not a problem. SyFy has been playing them non-stop and we watched Alien: Resurrection last night. I’m not the one that’s wigged out. XD

  129. Happiestsadist says

    Crip Dyke @ #10: That whole comment is fantastic.

    Caine: I’m so sorry for your loss. Chas seemed like the cutest little guy ever.

    Giliell @ #129: I know the feeling re: old cats. Mine came to me somewhere around 11ish (at the youngest, we’re thinking likely 14.) and she’s this amazing, snuggly, gentle, weird thing. Maybe something like 17 now (or 14 at the lowest estimate), mostly toothless, diabetic, asthmatic, and adored. But I worry about her, because however you look at it, she’s older than dust for a cat.

    How old is #1 (who wishes nail polish)? I’m a big nail polish fan myself, and it’s definitely become a major thing in fashion of late.

    Katherine Lorraine @ #132: Good luck!

  130. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Dang, forgot to send condolences to Mattir for her bunny. It’s hard type when eating dinner.

  131. KG says

    Caine and Mattir,
    Condolences on the loss of your companions.

    Katherine,
    Hope your therapy appointment goes well.

    Mostly staying out of TET at present, hoping the current internecine brouhaha will pass; I missed the start of it and have deliberately not gone back to look; I value people on both sides.

  132. Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    @Cipher:
    Re defending my rep & digesting my post: I’m flattered at your instincts, apparently it’s not only Kel who gets misread. But i still think that Kel is special.

    And the post @ #10 doesn’t really require any response, so no worries.

    @Jennifer:
    ‘Nym flattery will get you anywhere. I mean anywhere.

    @Janine, Cipher, Caine, Aratina Cage, Sarahface, keenacat, opposablethumbs, & carlie:

    Thanks so much for your sympathy last night/this morning. I wasn’t ready to even say thanks last night, but I felt glad to read your comments both last night and this morning.

    @carlie:

    Yes, it’s the first Olympics without him. I used to call him round Olympics time until I figured out that he wasn’t interested in analyzing who’s good and why. He didn’t only sit through one Olympics, though. He was around for a good long time after his gymnastics career ended. But not nearly long enough.

    :sigh:

    @David:
    I ♥ you. I just totally get how one can be so deep into study of words and so used to them revealing unexpected meanings or connections that one stops making assumptions about them… and then can miss what is to others quite obvious. I’ve done this myself, though not with linguistics, a field in which I’ve had no study at all.

    @HappiestSadist:
    :blush:

  133. Happiestsadist says

    Crip Dyke: I’m so sorry about your brother, as well. *hugs if wanted*

  134. d(thunk) over d(MQG) = SQRRAWK! says

    Crip Dyke:

    And me too. That’s horrible. *condolences and hugs*

  135. Happiestsadist says

    Oh god, Audley, that made me look!

    DO NOT WANT. (And I say this as someone who had a period so broken it was better termed an ellipsis, and ended up being surgically fixed.)

  136. The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa) says

    The only proper way to eat a placenta is fresh and raw, immediately after birth, so as not to attract jackals or hyenas.

  137. Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    @TLC

    That’s so… right and so wrong at the same time. Makes me wanna QFT and Ewwww at the same time.

  138. Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    @ keenacat

    :barf:

    No. Just no.

  139. 'Tis Himself says

    Audley Darkheart #179

    Part of the problem in the US is that passenger trains must give way to freight trains. You get a heavy night for shipping and, well, travelers are royally screwed.

    Amtrak owns the Bos-Wash tracks and little else. Amtrak has trackage rights on other railroad’s tracks and passenger trains run as extras, having the lowest priority of any trains.

  140. says

    Happiestsadist

    How old is #1 (who wishes nail polish)? I’m a big nail polish fan myself, and it’s definitely become a major thing in fashion of late.

    She’s 4, turning 5 next month. And although I think we’re doing well so far on the issue, she’s surrounded by a culture that sets her out on a path of early sexualisation and being pretty *spits*
    As I said, in other times we’d have fun painting each other’s nails, but at a time when it’s actively marketed at preschoolers and when her friends show her all that this is what girls must have, I have to put a stop on it before it begins.
    How did they ask on Jezebel? How Many 8-Year-Olds Have To Get Bikini Waxes Before We All Agree The Terrorists Have Won?

    re: placenta
    In Germany you have to bury it in your garden and plant a tree on it. Apple for a boy, pear for a girl.

  141. d(thunk) over d(MQG) = SQRRAWK! says

    Placenta:

    Don’t feel like looking, tyvm. Sounds perplexing.

  142. David Marjanović says

    Slept for 2 hours, dried out (nose ears), don’t feel much better than before. At least the headache is mostly gone.

  143. David Marjanović says

    nose, eyes

    FFS. Nose drying out means nose plugging up, and that results in a chronic oxygen shortage.

  144. Menyambal --- Sambal's sockpuppet says

    Placentas? I took over an apartment from some friends once, including the contents of the freezer. Fortunately, I asked what was in the package labelled “Sue/Toby 11-03-84″ before I cooked it.

  145. Happiestsadist says

    Giliell: Yeah, 4-5 is 100% too young for that shit, in this culture.(For some reason, i thought she was older.) I mean, waaaaaay back in the day, I had the Tinkerbell scented, peel-off polish, but that was always a fun, playing dress-up kind of thing, not a “mandatory femininity the second the umbilical cord is cut” kind of thing like it seems to be now. I know things weren’t this toxic when I was a little kid, and things were far from great back then. God, that’s depressing to think about. Being actually nostalgic for the days of “Math is hard!” Barbie because the culture was less misogynist.

  146. Sarahface says

    Since DJ Grothe seems to think that sexual harassment is an extraordinary claim that must be met with skepticism, maybe women could mail him their weekly update, you know like those women who left their menstruational update on the FB wall of that conservative guy….

    I like the way you think…

    I really wish I hadn’t looked up lochia and stuff either – I mean, I kind of knew it happened, in an abstract way? But I really didn’t want to read that, particularly not whilst wondering about what to eat >.<

    Also, that placenta teddy-bear is weird on so many levels. It feels about as wrong as the thought of making a poncho from someone's skin.

    re: trains.
    The trains here aren't *quite* as bad as America – probably mostly a function of distance: the UK isn't particularly big. They're alright at being on time, but nothing like the German trains (the German system is often held up as an example of what we should aspire to). People like to complain about the trains, though – it's a staple of comedy. There are particular problems in the commuter belt around London (most people don't drive into London, for various reasons) – there are never quite enough trains during rush hour, and there are regularly faults on the lines/cables stolen for the copper/whatever else, which delays a lot of trains and causes problems. But because the track is owned by one company, and the trains by another, it's an absolute miracle if anything gets done about it.

  147. says

    Happiestsadist:

    Being actually nostalgic for the days of “Math is hard!” Barbie because the culture was less misogynist.

    I’ve gotta wonder if that Barbie was made today, would there be any uproar?

    Earlier, Mr Darkheart told me that he had to have a “sit down” with our SiL– apparently, she didn’t take our request for non-gender specific toys very well. She thinks that we’re going to confuse Darkfetus by not forcing DF to conform to rigid stereotypes.

    *headdesk!*

    In other news: I am currently painting my nails. Giliell, it sucks that you can’t share that with your kid, but I totally understand why you’ve made that decision.

  148. The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa) says

    If I still had all my baby teeth, I’d be tempted to try and drill through them carefully and string them up for a necklace. All in order, of course.

  149. Happiestsadist says

    Audley: I really wonder the same about the Barbie. And then I get depressed. Good on you for not cramming DarkFetus into a stereotype box as early as possible. Disappointing that it’s apparently so controversial.

    Also, what colour? I did mine the new aqua-turquoise shade earlier today.

  150. Happiestsadist says

    TLC @ #209: I have a pair of earrings made of two of my best friend’s molars. :)

    And two more of her molars, plus an ex’s wisdom teeth, and another acquaintance’s massive wisdom tooth with an amazing twisty root. I’ve been thinking necklace myself.

  151. says

    HS:

    Disappointing that it’s apparently so controversial.

    It’s not surprising coming from my SiL– everyone else (on both sides of the family) is on board with our decision.

    I just removed turquoise polish. :) I’m putting on an awesome drab olive color. ♥

  152. Happiestsadist says

    Ahh, well it’s good that otherwise you’ve got lots of support in it.

    Drab olive sounds fantastic. I always forget how much I love green polish and how great it looks on me, then I use it on a whim and feel awesome. I usually go with blues, greys, purples, combinations of the above and weird peachy “my skin, but robotic” shades.

  153. says

    Giliell, thank you.

    She’s a great cat. It’s amazing the way she really, really wants to be around people. She’s a rescue and all that’s known of her is that she was found half starved. Kind of should expect her to be mortally afraid and mistrusting of people but she’s just the other way round.

    I have one of those, Grendel. Right after we moved here and got the cat kennel set up, someone snuck a cat into it one night (a night which included a raging thunderstorm, natch.) A full grown male cat, large, who weighed 4.5 fucking pounds! I got him food right away and you should have heard him – sounded like the freaking devil-possessed girl in the Exorcist while eating at high speed.

    He wants to be on top of people 24 hours a day. Also, has a panic attack if his food dish is empty.

    Cipher:

    Caine, my best friend, whom I’ve occasionally mentioned and who has heard me squee over your rat and dog pictures/stories occasionally and has had them sent to him because they were so cute I had to share, sends his condolences as well. He sounded very sad.

    Oh, that is so thoughtful and nice. Please tell him thank you for me.

    Sarahface, thank you.

    Kat Lorraine:

    Tomorrow. I go to my therapist.

    TERRIFYING!!!

    Breathe, breathe, breathe! You are going to be fine. Remember, you are the customer here – if they aren’t a good fit for you, tell them so and find someone else.

    Noooo…. *sob, hug*

    Aaaw. Hugses back. I cried my eyes out last night. ♥

    Nerd:

    Condolences on the death of Chas Caine. A good and faithful pet.

    He was that. Thank you.

    Sili & Keenacat, thank you.

    RahXephon:

    I’m so sorry, Caine! I’ve never lost a pet before, but I’m so attached to my cat I think I have at least some inkling of how I might feel if something happened to her.

    Thank you. It’s a downside of rats, that their lives are so short. They do live them to the full, though!

    LDTR, thank you.

    I lost one of mine a couple of months ago. :-(

    Oh, I am so sorry.

    Opposablethumbs, thank you.

    Rorschach, it can be so very painful, especially when you watch them go through so much on the medical front.

    McCthulhu is no true Scotsman, thank you. It’s very difficult to lose a pet, even more so when it comes to the special ones.

    Ogvorbis:

    Wife and I got to go out to dinner last night. Went to a Wolfgang Puck Express and the food was a good 8 out of 10. Best of all, we had coupons, so the meal only cost $10 out of $25!

    Oooooh. What did you order? Thank you for the condolences.

    Chigau, *hugses back* Thank you.

    Theophontes:

    So sorry to hear this. It really felt like Chas belonged here on Pharyngula.

    He did. One of the very first things he did was to dance on my keyboard while I posting to TET. I think I left his contribution in my post. :D Thank you.

    Myeck Waters:

    Caine, so sorry to hear about Chas. In the past or so I’ve heard more about him than some of my nieces and nephews, and that Guinness glass pic was majorly cute.

    “Really a great rat” is a better epitaph than a lot of humans have earned.

    Thank you, and I agree.

    Carlie & Thunk, thank you.

    David:

    I’ve come to like him myself, you know.

    Thank you very much. The Dust & Lint & Alfie & Chas photos are (here), photos 9 & 12. (For anyone lurking, they are NOT to be used without permission.)

    PTI:

    Hugs and more to you and the household. I’ll raise a glass for Chas tonight. Thanks to you posting tibits about him and the crew, I now understand why rats really do make such fun pets. RIP Chas.

    Thank you. ♥

    Birger & Dianne, thank you.

    Audley, thank you so much. ♥

    (Although, you might not want to wait *too* long. That’s how Mr Darkheart ended up with a rat named “Rat”– he was was waiting until a name popped, and suddenly he got to the point where Rat would only respond to, well, “Rat”.)

    That is a distinct danger with rats, whatever word or sound you use with them consistently will become their name.

    Nutmeg & Dhorvath, thank you.

    ImaginesABeach:

    That’s how I ended up with cats named Him and Her.

    :snortle: Hey, those are better than some of the names I’ve heard.

    Happiestsadist:

    I’m so sorry for your loss. Chas seemed like the cutest little guy ever.

    Thank you.

    KG, thank you.

    Nifty, thank you.

    ‘Tis:

    I’m sorry to hear of your loss. At least his going was quick.

    Yes, I’m grateful for that. Thank you.

  154. says

    HS:
    I never used to paint my nails ‘cos I would always wreck them at work. Now that I’ve got a desk job, it is on!

    Green is my fav color, so all of the nail polishes I’ve bought in the past couple of weeks have been different shades of green. :)

  155. ImaginesABeach says

    My mom has decided she needs a new car, so she did her internet research and narrowed it down to 4 similar models by 4 different manufacturers. Yesterday, she went to the dealerships to check them out, to narrow it down before she and my dad test drive them. Things went well at 3 of the 4 dealerships. At the 4th, a salesman came over and introduced himself as the sales manager. Mom explained that she was looking for a car, told him the 4 kinds that she was interested in, and asked him to tell her why she should pick his instead of one of the others. He started by asking her “what color car do you want?”

    Mom will not be buying the Nissan.

  156. Happiestsadist says

    Haha, yeah, my years working in kitchens meant I could never do my nails either. My hands were perpetually mangled.

  157. Sarahface says

    Audley Darkheart:

    She thinks that we’re going to confuse Darkfetus by not forcing DF to conform to rigid stereotypes.

    As opposed to… confusing Darkfoetus by making hir conform to roles and/or stereotypes that really, really don’t fit with hir personality and wishes? Teaching DF that conforming is more important than being happy with who zie is?
    FWIW, I think DF can’t help but turn out awesome with parents like you.

    On nail polish – if I can be bothered, I think I’ll paint my fingernails in the patterns of the ace flag tomorrow (Black/grey/white/purple, in that order). I don’t really wear it often, but particularly not since my style starting shifting from ‘slightly tomboy’ to ‘soft butch’/’hard femme’.
    I kind of wish I had some awesome turquoise nail polishes, maybe painting my nails in such a summery colour would distract from the terrible non-summery weather that’s currently happening…

  158. ImaginesABeach says

    Caine –

    GirlChild and I will miss stories and pictures of Chas. The one of Chas and Alfie eating out of Jayne’s bowl is one of our favorites. Our condolences.

  159. d(thunk) over d(MQG) = SQRRAWK! says

    audley: Ah, nails.

    I always bite them off; lifelong habit for me.

    Haven’t ever really painted my nails (except with marker when I’m bored– honestly). My internalized phobias regarding femininity always act up *sigh*.

  160. Happiestsadist says

    Well, it’s true, Audley. If awesomeness can be transmitted genetically, DarkFetus has hit the jackpot. If being raised around high levels of awesome affects child awesome levels, well then that part’s also guaranteed.

  161. The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa) says

    HappiestSadist: Do you think it would be too weird for a parent to save up their kid’s baby teeth and make them into a necklace?

    Surely less ‘strange’ than all the placenta stuff.

  162. d(thunk) over d(MQG) = SQRRAWK! says

    Audley & Sarahface:

    FWIW, I think DF can’t help but turn out awesome with parents like you.

    QFFT.

    Honestly, I’ve actually considered raising kids to give them a good parent.

    Although I’m not too sure of my parenting ability…

    (it’s a bit soon to worry about that though)

  163. Sarahface says

    @Caine:
    I never used to really like the idea of rats as pets, I think I was stuck in the whole, “Rats are icky and terrible” frame of mind. But reading about some of the exploits of your rats (and growing up a bit, I guess) has changed this, and I’ve put them on my List of Pets to Consider Getting, When Circumstances Allow. Also, I just flicked through those photos, and they are all *completely adorable*.

  164. d(thunk) over d(MQG) = SQRRAWK! says

    Well, it’s true, Audley. If awesomeness can be transmitted genetically, DarkFetus has hit the jackpot. If being raised around high levels of awesome affects child awesome levels, well then that part’s also guaranteed.

    Interesting. If we combine the two, maybe Lamarck was right!

  165. The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa) says

    Sarahface: Conversely, the ‘ick factor’ was what initially made me want a rat, it was only after I acquired a scraggy and elderly male rat with ragged bitten ears and sparse fur from some pet owners that I realized how smart and affectionate rats were.

    I only had that rat for a few months, but I’ll never forget old Scabbers.

  166. says

    ImaginesABeach:

    GirlChild and I will miss stories and pictures of Chas. The one of Chas and Alfie eating out of Jayne’s bowl is one of our favorites. Our condolences.

    Aw, thank you. Rats, like all animals, are individuals. You’re really lucky when you get ones like Chas & Alfie. This is the first time I haven’t wanted to run right out and get another rat. Esme & Rubin will be enough for now.

    Rubin* is still the spookiest rat evar. He’s the 2nd most non-social rat I’ve had. Esme, though, she’s turned into a wonderful little individual, gorgeous and a master thief. :D

    *I still kind of wish I had named him Ichabod.

  167. Rey Fox says

    Some folks here may know that I had an abstract accepted to the Urban Biodiversity Conference in Mumbai this October. I just got an e-mail this morning asking for clarification on whether I wanted to present a poster or give a talk. My original plan was to present a poster, as I did in Iowa last December before I had done my season in the field, but now I’m starting to think that I should give a talk instead.

    Your job now is to talk me out of this, as I am clearly insane.

  168. Happiestsadist says

    TLC @ #226: I think it would be the best thing ever, and if my parents had sone it, I think I’d wear it every day.

    But then, I am also the kind of weirdo who keeps a whale skull in the living room, and can be swept off my feet with the gift of a 1933 sideshow group photo. (Got that last one yesterday, because The Mr. both knows me and spoils the hell out of me.)

  169. says

    Sarahface:

    I never used to really like the idea of rats as pets, I think I was stuck in the whole, “Rats are icky and terrible” frame of mind. But reading about some of the exploits of your rats (and growing up a bit, I guess) has changed this, and I’ve put them on my List of Pets to Consider Getting, When Circumstances Allow. Also, I just flicked through those photos, and they are all *completely adorable*.

    That’s one of the best things I could possibly hear. Thanks! Rats are terribly bright, which is one of the reasons they make such great pets.

    TLC:

    I only had that rat for a few months, but I’ll never forget old Scabbers.

    Oh, you didn’t. Really?

  170. Sarahface says

    Some folks here may know that I had an abstract accepted to the Urban Biodiversity Conference in Mumbai this October. I just got an e-mail this morning asking for clarification on whether I wanted to present a poster or give a talk. My original plan was to present a poster, as I did in Iowa last December before I had done my season in the field, but now I’m starting to think that I should give a talk instead.

    Your job now is to talk me out of this, as I am clearly insane.

    Flip a coin (but then choose the answer you prefer, of course)?

  171. says

    She thinks that we’re going to confuse Darkfetus by not forcing DF to conform to rigid stereotypes.

    If I’ve learned anything these years it’s that you don’t have to actually teach them any stereotype anyway. Giving them room to breathe apart from them is the hard thing.

    Well, I don’t even use nail polish, so I don’t lose much there. My nails are short and clean and nail polish would get ruined in about 5 minutes or so.

  172. Happiestsadist says

    Caine: I love pet rats. They have adorable little paws and faces and such personalities. I think the only thing aside from space keeping me from having them is the short lifespan. I had a hamster and gerbils and shared some time with The Mr.’s hedgehog, and it’s just too little time to spend with that kind of amazing company. But then, I did take on my cat when she was already ancient. Strangely, the cats never really were interested in the cage or aquarium-dwelling pets. They just regarded it as a less-interesting sort of tv at most.

  173. The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa) says

    Caine: I know, I know, I know. But I was young, the first two or so books were all that had come out, and he looked a lot like the character described.

    I almost didn’t mention the name out of embarassment, but I did say I’d never forget him…

  174. says

    Oh, shit, Caine. I am very sorry about Chas. {hugs}

    Crip Dyke: Hugs to you as well, in re your late brother.

    Regarding an earlier comment of yours…

    And not always the jurisdictions that you’d expect (though, yes, Georgia and Texas are problems). In Massachusetts the legislature passed a bill through at least one house (it might have been both) that made it a felony for anyone to create, possess, or transfer any sexual image (still or video) or recording depicting someone with a disability or someone over the age of 60 years old.

    Massachusetts is progressive only by overall American standards. It is very paternalistic.

    Giliell:

    When talking about ethical concerns and environmental issues this comes from people on the internet who own computers and smartphones and all that stuff and who most likely take hot showers as well. I mean, do you really need those?

    I’d categorize (brief) hot showers as fairly basic to good hygiene, whereas the other stuff can be justified as “necessary” to participate in modern society but not as crucial.

    However, you may not be aware that, in American English anyway (not sure about other varieties), “Do you really need that?” in re food has a subtext of “Because you’re too fat already,” and the question always has an edge of disgust. When the asker tries to “soften” it to sound caring, it comes off as condescending. The subtext is entirely different when the question is asked about a new smartphone or other material luxury.

    Rebecca Watson likely warns parents about her cursing because, unfortunately, a lot of parents are very uptight about cursing.

    Keenacat, I agree with Carlie that you don’t owe your ex anything, with Giliell that he is not capable of functioning well in a relationship until he gets his shit together, and with PTI and Dianne that it would be a bad idea to get back together with him.

    Jennifer, I hadn’t been keeping up with JT’s post in which he mocks TLC, but I browsed through most of it just now. Fucking Zengage.

    For those who haven’t seen and don’t want to read the thread, Jennifer had included the phrase “TRIGGER WARNING” in a previous comment because it included a brief but detailed description of having been raped. Zengage echoed the phrase…. in the context of him being mocked and flamed on the internet.

    And, yes, I saw your final response to him and to JT. It was richly deserved.

    David M.:

    Politeness is a lot more arbitrary than you seem to think. That’s why I hate it so much. All of it.

    Yes, but social constructs are pretty arbitrary in general. While I’m hardly an etiquette buff, I do like Miss Manners’ approach, which is that it exists to serve people and not the other way around, and not simply the people with the most privilege.

    Because being late makes me anxious, I have always been one of those punctual people, although I’ve gotten much more relaxed about it with time. Of course, it’s not always the fault of the late person. OTOH, there are people who regularly show up one, two, or more hours late for planned events, and they regard being asked not to do so as crimping their personal style. That’s just freaking rude and selfish, especially when the event involves tickets and the tickets aren’t cheap.

    Audley:

    She thinks that we’re going to confuse Darkfetus by not forcing DF to conform to rigid stereotypes.

    Oh, vomit. I’ve heard that also used as an excuse to shame and police gender-variant behavior in children.

    ImaginesABeach, I’d suggest that your mother call the Nissan dealership and tell the highest-ranking person there why they lost her business.

  175. Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    @Caine:

    Esme doesn’t have a 2nd name of “Squalor,” does she?

  176. says

    Happiestsadist:

    I love pet rats. They have adorable little paws and faces and such personalities. I think the only thing aside from space keeping me from having them is the short lifespan. I had a hamster and gerbils and shared some time with The Mr.’s hedgehog, and it’s just too little time to spend with that kind of amazing company. But then, I did take on my cat when she was already ancient. Strangely, the cats never really were interested in the cage or aquarium-dwelling pets. They just regarded it as a less-interesting sort of tv at most.

    The short lifespan isn’t something everyone can deal with. I’ve accepted it, but it doesn’t make it easier when you lose them.

    As for space, there are all kinds of ways you can deal with that one. I’ve linked this before, but this is what we did for our first rat, Ash and we still use the Rat Condo, except it’s been moved 80 gazillion times by now.

    Oh, their little hands. It’s kind of silly, but this is probably my favourite photo of Chas: http://moblog.net/view/961327/rat-tales (top shot).

    Ash never gave a shit about the cats, he bit every single one of them to make sure they knew their place. Chas & Alfie used to climb on the cats and get cleaned by them. They were all over the monster dogs, too.

    A hedgehog? *swoons*

  177. carlie says

    Sarahface – jump in, give the talk. You have to start sometime, and then they get easier. Doing a talk isn’t any more or less prep than a poster, requires only 15 minutes of time at the conference rather than 2 hours standing there waiting for people, and makes more of an impression.

  178. Ogvorbis says

    Why the fuck to libertarians visit national parks? More to the point, why do they visit national parks, go on interpretive tours with park rangers, and then try to hijack the tour into a discussion of whether or not the government should have anything at all to do with owning land, preserving historic areas, artifacts and buildings, and making labour unions look like they were anything other than communist attempts to take over America?

    Oooooh. What did you order? Thank you for the condolences.

    We shared a Chinese-style salad with chicken and a chicken sandwich with fresh mozzarella, tomato, and pesto. It was good. I like that cabbage is making a comeback into the US diet. It is showing up in more and more things.

    At the 4th, a salesman came over and introduced himself as the sales manager. Mom explained that she was looking for a car, told him the 4 kinds that she was interested in, and asked him to tell her why she should pick his instead of one of the others. He started by asking her “what color car do you want?”

    Damn. What an idiot.

    I seem to remember reading, somewhere, that management is the economy’s way of removing useless people from the economic system.

    If awesomeness can be transmitted genetically, DarkFetus has hit the jackpot.

    Well, my kids are both awesome. Must have got it from Wife. It certainly wasn’t me.

    Do you think it would be too weird for a parent to save up their kid’s baby teeth and make them into a necklace?

    Children’s teeth tend to become quite brittle when they are exposed to air for a long period of time. Kinda crumbly.

    Not weird, it just may not work. Talk to a palaeontologist (there’s gotta be one around here, at least) and find out the best taphonomy for the preservation of dentin and enamal.

    Although I’m not too sure of my parenting ability…

    No one is. Even those with lots of experience with human larvae have no clue how it will work when they have their own.

    Your job now is to talk me out of this, as I am clearly insane.

    Why do you not want to present the paper as a speaker? (Keep in mind, I make a living talking to total strangers in a rather formal environment, so . . . .)

    Rats are terribly bright, which is one of the reasons they make such great pets.

    I think, based on my own personal experience with our cats and Girl’s rats, that they are far more intelligent than cats.

  179. says

    Daisy:

    Oh, shit, Caine. I am very sorry about Chas. {hugs}

    Thank you. &hearts:

    Crip Dyke:

    Esme doesn’t have a 2nd name of “Squalor,” does she?

    No. She’s named after Esmerelda Weatherwax, aka Granny Weatherwax of Lancre. I’m waiting on a Gytha and Magrat.

  180. Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    @Rey Fox

    In re: Speaking vs. Poster.

    Sarahface had it exactly right, but incomplete.

    Flip a coin, catch it, and slap it down on your other wrist. When you feel a moment of, “FSM I hope it’s not/it is X!” just before you reveal it, you should then instantly chose not X or X as appropriate. Don’t bother looking at the coin.

    If you feel no hopes or hopes not, then I guess it really doesn’t matter and let the coin rule.

  181. Rey Fox says

    Okay, now everyone’s supposed to remind me that this will be an audience of professionals and scientists, most of whom will have scary accents.

    (Also, never mind that I already agreed to give a talk at one of my committee members’ company in September)

  182. says

    GAH. The daughter is A GROWN WOMAN. Fuck these sexist menz who think they get to have control over their daughters’ vaginas until they hand the daughter off to her next “rightful owner.”

    “We know how boys think” – yeah, if that isn’t gender essentialist, I don’t know what is. Girls have “dirty” thoughts, too, and some boys really aren’t that interested in sex.

    “I’m sure most of us pray that our daughters are married first.” Because all women want to get married. To men, anyway. Why do I get the feeling that Daddums would have flipped his shit were the daughter a lesbian and confided that to her mother but not him?

  183. says

    Rey:

    Okay, now everyone’s supposed to remind me that this will be an audience of professionals and scientists, most of whom will have scary accents.

    To them, you’ll have the scary accent. You’ll be brilliant.

  184. Happiestsadist says

    Caine: That picture made me tear up. What sweet little hands. Rats always amaze me how something so small can be so smart and capable.

    As it stands, we barely have space for the two of us and two cats. Moving to a big expensive city meant we had to go for a smaller place than we’re used to. Someday…

    We did have a hedgehog. His name was Milo, and he was the grumpiest, grumbliest and also cutest little thing. He liked his hiding tube, mealworms, and my feet. That was more or less it. He once escaped his cage, and we found him trying to get back in. “Horrible freedom!” We adored him, and he seemed to dislike us less than he did everyone else. But hedgies don’t have that impressive of lifespans.

  185. Sarahface says

    Sarahface – jump in, give the talk. You have to start sometime, and then they get easier. Doing a talk isn’t any more or less prep than a poster, requires only 15 minutes of time at the conference rather than 2 hours standing there waiting for people, and makes more of an impression.

    Sorry, I was actually quoting & replying to Rey Fox… I’m not old or experienced enough to be giving professional talks, alas. (Someday, hopefully).

    I seem to remember reading, somewhere, that management is the economy’s way of removing useless people from the economic system. [...] Even those with lots of experience with human larvae have no clue how it will work when they have their own.

    You are so lucky I wasn’t drinking my tea when I read those.

    No. She’s named after Esmerelda Weatherwax, aka Granny Weatherwax of Lancre. I’m waiting on a Gytha and Magrat.

    D’awwww, that’s awesome. I love the idea of the witches in rat form. (And also the thought of introducing rat-Gytha to the Hadgehog Song.)
    I think I might start a Discworld naming theme for my future pets – at least I’ll never run out of names…

  186. says

    Ms. Daisy Cutter
    Oh, I understand that. People were usually less polite around here. “Do you really think you should eat that?
    That’s why I was talking about the “ethical better than thou” folks. True is that they’re still making choices that cause harm to animals and the environment the same way meat/dairy farming does. Only the relationship is less direct. And they have justified for themselves that those choices are reasonable. But they feel entitled to judge other people who make different choices.

    Rebecca Watson likely warns parents about her cursing because, unfortunately, a lot of parents are very uptight about cursing.

    Oh, nothing against warning about cursing (although I’d say that we’re ore relaxed in Germany). I don’t know if this was clear from the program and my criticism doesn’t apply if it was, but had I been one of the parents I’d have much more welcomed a warning that the content would not be suitable for children who speak English because of talks about sexual violence.

    ImaginesABeach
    When will those guys learn that they lose customers?

  187. carlie says

    Oh – c’mon, Rey! You know you can do that. And nobody in the room will know as much about your topic as you do. So go do it!

    Why the fuck to libertarians visit national parks? More to the point, why do they visit national parks,

    Because it’s cheaper than other vacation alternatives.

    go on interpretive tours with park rangers, and then try to hijack the tour into a discussion of whether or not the government should have anything at all to do with owning land, preserving historic areas, artifacts and buildings, and making labour unions look like they were anything other than communist attempts to take over America?

    Because they’re self-important assholes.

  188. Rey Fox says

    (And that I already have a presentation I gave in March to expand upon)

    (And that I don’t really want to go to Kinko’s again)

  189. carlie says

    Ok, that’s like the fourth or fifth major reading comprehension error I’ve had in the last few days. I think I really do need to take a break. Yell at me if I’m back on FTB anytime before Wednesday.

  190. Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    Rey Fox, I have every confidence in you if you choose to take this on, accents notwithstanding. Also, doesn’t the category of “professionals and scientists” include you? Are you not doing science?

    Though I think the coin flip is a good way to make obvious underlying feelings, I was saying that so that you get to do what you want, not because I lack confidence in your ability to kick patootie.

  191. says

    Happiestsadist:

    We did have a hedgehog. His name was Milo, and he was the grumpiest, grumbliest and also cutest little thing. He liked his hiding tube, mealworms, and my feet. That was more or less it. He once escaped his cage, and we found him trying to get back in. “Horrible freedom!” We adored him, and he seemed to dislike us less than he did everyone else. But hedgies don’t have that impressive of lifespans.

    Oh gods, he sounds wonderful. I’m cool with grumpy and grumbly, that’s me much of the time. :D

    Sarahface:

    I think I might start a Discworld naming theme for my future pets – at least I’ll never run out of names…

    That’s a fact! One of these days, there will be a Verence, a Sam, an Angua, etc. I’d love to go with Fred & Nobby one of these days, but rats just aren’t stupid enough. ;D

  192. David Marjanović says

    Mattir? Bunny? :-( I completely overlooked that; can someone point me to the comment?

    ░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░

    Sister 2 is studying for Great Big Medicine Exam, GBME hereinafter, and writes (my translation):

    GBME isnt about understanding. Have I already whined to you that I’d love to learn so much, bc it’s simply so fucking interesting, but that that would be a waste of time? if I want to pass GBME I must only learn what’ll be on the test!

    till I studied for GMBE, I thought that of immunology I’m only interested in autoimmune diseases (simply EVERYTHING is an autoimmune disease!!), but no, I am interested in everything! totally!

    that’s totally sad, isn’t it? I’ll have to read it on summer vacation when I’m bored, cough

    What can I say? HULK SMASH.

    ░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░

    Come on, David. I know you read my whole post and you know that I specifically addressed this concern:

    (Getting held up (traffic or whatever) is, of course, totally excusable.)

    Oh, sorry, I completely overlooked this somehow. :-(

    Of course, my own issues are showing through in the above paragraph. I’m a bit too used to not mattering to people.

    What?? David, that’s extremely shitty. *hugs* *Girl Scout cookies* *a kitty to snuggle on your lap*

    *hug* ^_^ It’s not that bad; I’m just used to there being an ingroup and me not being in it. That’s how it used to be in meatspace. I’m even prone to assuming there’s an ingroup (and I’m out of it) when there isn’t in fact one; I respond a bit slowly to new situations where I’m the new one, so I automatically regard those who are already there as an ingroup. Having few if any meatspace friends (depending on definitions), I’m used to people not caring much about my whereabouts or needing me in any way or otherwise inquiring about me; I’m always surprised when they do, and when that happens, it’s usually on the Internet.

    Heh. Funny how that works. My mood got worse and worse during this paragraph; clearly connected to the fact that I’m so tired. Rest assured, you totally overreacted. *bacon chocolate* :-)

    I turned the table lamp on. That’s better. (The picture is too dark and therefore too brownish.)

    That’s how I ended up with cats named Him and Her.

    :-)

    Thanks for the offer, but be aware that I travel with The Passion of Christ and The Wrath of God (aka #1 and the little one).

    Oh, so like Sister 1 and Brother, then? I’m used to that :-) :-) :-)

    (The walls are thin, though, and the floors are drums. When I don’t pay attention to how I walk, the neighbor under me cannot sleep. House quickly rebuilt in 1953 after having been destroyed in WWII.)

    I have a big fat bunch of family in Berlin who have invited me so often (it’s a shame I haven’t been there in 4 years) that I really need to get on their nerves :)

    Oh, that’s a good argument :-)

    Oh, I had an idea.
    Since DJ Grothe seems to think that sexual harassment is an extraordinary claim that must be met with skepticism, maybe women could mail him their weekly update, you know like those women who left their menstruational update on the FB wall of that conservative guy….

    Sounds good. Where can I learn more about that case with the menstruational updates?

    How Many 8-Year-Olds Have To Get Bikini Waxes Before We All Agree The Terrorists Have Won?

    Heh.

    (How many 8-year-olds even have that much hair, though? I’m sure my sisters didn’t…)

    @David:
    I ♥ you. I just totally get how one can be so deep into study of words and so used to them revealing unexpected meanings or connections that one stops making assumptions about them… and then can miss what is to others quite obvious. I’ve done this myself, though not with linguistics, a field in which I’ve had no study at all.

    ~:-| What are you referring to? Something I said? Something John Morales said?

    (So, I don’t understand what the reason for the ♥ is.)

    The Dust & Lint & Alfie & Chas photos are (here), photos 9 & 12.

    Thank you! ♥ I had seen the one with Alfie, but not the one with Chas. And I hadn’t seen the Guinness glass.

    He started by asking her “what color car do you want?”

    Idiot.

    Quite.

    audley: Ah, nails.

    I always bite them off; lifelong habit for me.

    Mine are too tough for that. So I cut them using the nails of the other hand, sideways.

    My original plan was to present a poster, as I did in Iowa last December before I had done my season in the field, but now I’m starting to think that I should give a talk instead.

    Your job now is to talk me out of this, as I am clearly insane.

    Why? Are there concurrent sessions? If yes, if you give a poster and you’re lucky, you’ll have 5 people coming and talking to you, and you’ll miss almost all of the poster session you’re in, and you may have to run away during the talks to put your poster up; if you give a presentation and you’re out of luck, you’ll have 30 people listening to you. I did a poster once, against warnings, and won’t do it again.

    OTOH, there are people who regularly show up one, two, or more hours late for planned events, and they regard being asked not to do so as crimping their personal style. That’s just freaking rude and selfish, especially when the event involves tickets and the tickets aren’t cheap.

    Argh. I haven’t encountered that. Yeah, I wouldn’t like it.

  193. Ogvorbis says

    Rey:

    You wrote the paper. You know the material. There will be people in the audience who know more about your basic subject than you. You wrote the paper. You have mastered this particular corner of your subject. And, more to the point, when you are speaking, you are in control. (This, by they by, is exactly the way I give interpretive programmes!) And, if someone does ask a question for which you do not know the answer, ask for their email and tell ‘em you’ll get back to them.

    Anyway, I think that a public presentation is many times more effective than a limited non-personal media presentation.

    This is just me. Your results may vary. Created by a nut currently in a manufactured facility. Not to be taken for, or by, reality.

  194. Happiestsadist says

    Caine: He was wonderful. Some hedgies are friendly sorts, but there’s something extra-special about having him happily sit on my feet knowing it was a big gesture for him. (I used to wear skirts exclusively for most of that time, and I thought he was just hiding underneath. Nah, short dressed were fine too for him.

    And now I have my ancient kitty on my lap, purring like a diesel engine and maybe drooling a little.

  195. Josh, Official SpokesKraftDinner says

    Caine, I am so sorry about Chas. I’m another one you’ve completely turned around on the squick/squee axis with rats.

  196. carlie says

    One last – David, if I were anywhere near where you are, I’d be trying to drag you along to everything, because you are a great person to hang out with. I’m sorry that we’re all so scattered across the world, but you’re definitely in-group.

  197. Sili says

    I dragged poor David out far too much, the poor thing. I fully expect mattir to hurt me for forcing him to eat out.

  198. Ogvorbis says

    I’m just used to there being an ingroup and me not being in it. That’s how it used to be in meatspace. I’m even prone to assuming there’s an ingroup (and I’m out of it) when there isn’t in fact one; I respond a bit slowly to new situations where I’m the new one, so I automatically regard those who are already there as an ingroup. Having few if any meatspace friends (depending on definitions), I’m used to people not caring much about my whereabouts or needing me in any way or otherwise inquiring about me; . . . .

    I think David and I are mental twins. Or, at least, social twins. I think that Pharyngula is the first place I have ever been at which I feel truly welcome as who I am. Then again, there is a little part of me that knows it would be different if we were in meatspace — I’d be the outsider there.

  199. says

    Josh:

    Caine, I am so sorry about Chas. I’m another one you’ve completely turned around on the squick/squee axis with rats.

    Thank you. ♥ How’s your conference going?

  200. The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa) says

    I’ve been comfortable enough with my default ‘outsider’ nature for a while now, enough so that I can now choose ‘not to be an outsider’ occasionally, when I feel like it.

  201. Sarahface says

    I’ll just leave this pile of festering, needlessly verbose, jargon-laden not-pology from DJ Grothe here.

    Oh dear. m-/
    Reading that I kinda get the message of, “Hey, look at all these things that I did. Are you going to give me cookies now? ‘Cause I think I deserve them. No, really, look at why I’m such a good person.” Very much in the style of, “Hey, I’m an ally. Let me tell you how and why, and why you should ignore all the other things I did wrong.” (Because that *definitely* hasn’t been said recently *at* *all*… Nope. [/sarcasm])

  202. Sarahface says

    (Oh, what do I mean ‘kinda’? I *definitely* get that message from between the lines.)

  203. says

    Josh:

    I’ll just leave this pile of festering, needlessly verbose, jargon-laden not-pology from DJ Grothe here.

    It was linked to in the DJG thread. I read it a while ago. DJ could have saved himself many a word if he had simply wrote “That’s nice, I’m an ally, so don’t be mean and to prevent all that talking, don’t mind while I toss you over this bridge.

  204. carlie says

    I think that Pharyngula is the first place I have ever been at which I feel truly welcome as who I am. Then again, there is a little part of me that knows it would be different if we were in meatspace — I’d be the outsider there.

    Ha! You would be smothered with love and attention, SO THERE.

  205. Ogvorbis says

    Ha! You would be smothered with love and attention, SO THERE.

    That’s because you don’t know me.

    No. Really. That is the first thought that came through my damaged mind.

    Sorry.

  206. David Marjanović says

    Children’s teeth tend to become quite brittle when they are exposed to air for a long period of time. Kinda crumbly.

    That’s true for enamel in general: when it dries out, it turns brittle. That’s why ivory from forest elephants is more expensive than that of savanna elephants.

    Okay, now everyone’s supposed to remind me that this will be an audience of professionals and scientists,

    So?

    most of whom will have scary accents.

    But you’re the one doing the talking. Are you afraid of not understanding the questions? After a few talks, you’ll get used to almost any accent, so just hope your talk isn’t the very first one of the entire meeting. :-)

    David, Mattir’s comment is <a href="here.

    Oh, thanks. *squeezes more hugs into USB port*

    I’ve overlooked a lot on that page of that thread. No idea why.

    One last – David, if I were anywhere near where you are, I’d be trying to drag you along to everything, because you are a great person to hang out with. I’m sorry that we’re all so scattered across the world, but you’re definitely in-group.

    ♥ Yes, I was talking about meatspace.

    Though there, I now have colleagues (other postdocs and PhD students) to play soccer with on Thursdays. Decidedly better than nothing! (Also, I really need the exercise. I don’t otherwise move all week long.)

    I dragged poor David out far too much, the poor thing. I fully expect mattir to hurt me for forcing him to eat out.

    As I said then, I’m happy you did. There are lots of things, touristy ones all the way to interesting museums, for which I could hardly ever get myself to get up and leave the house when it’s just for myself. There’s a fair amount of Paris I haven’t seen… and keep in mind that my thesis supervisor met two successive girlfriends in the Louvre!

    Also, some of the food in both restaurants* was awesome.

    * Turkish and Vietnamese.

    Then again, there is a little part of me that knows it would be different if we were in meatspace — I’d be the outsider there.

    *pounce* *hug* Please come to Rhinebeck and/or Skepticon.

  207. carlie says

    Carlie, your flounce, she is not successful.

    I know, I’m terrible at flouncing. I was trying (unsuccessfully) to find the latest episode of Korra to watch, but it’s not online yet, so I peeked back in. I’ll turn the computer off now. :)

    Og – seriously, I do know that feeling. It is generally wrong for most people, though, and it’s wrong for you too. We’ve seen enough of you for long enough that I think we have a pretty good handle on your personality, and it’s a good one.

  208. says

    Ogvorbis:

    That’s because you don’t know me.

    No. Really. That is the first thought that came through my damaged mind.

    I think that way too, however, the two Pharyngulites I have met seem to think I’m okay.

  209. Happiestsadist says

    Ogvorbis: I don’t like anything, and I don’t get out much, but I’d totally want to meet you. And I’ve long thought this.

  210. says

    I see that up-thread I wrote “dood” when I meant to write “good.” Sigh. I guess I can claim brain damage.

    What’s Helen Alvaré’s excuse for not being able to properly assess the role of contraception in women’s health?

    Excerpts below are from an article by Sarah Posner, writing for Salon.

    What’s a conservative activist to do when Jon Stewart digs up a CNN clip that’s more than a decade old in which she opines that Viagra fills a legitimate healthcare need but contraceptives do not?

    In Helen Alvaré’s case, the answer is to own it. Alvaré, a law professor at George Mason University, an advisor to Pope Benedict XVI’s Pontifical Council for the Laity, and a former spokesperson for and current advisor to the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, used her Daily Show cameo as the starting point for a recent speech at the Franciscan University of Steubenville. The mockery of Jon Stewart was proof, Alvaré suggested, that sexual libertines don’t understand the nature and purpose of sex, and that they certainly don’t understand religious liberty. Because, she argued, Stewart and the government share the belief that sex “is not related to procreation directly, intrinsically, axiomatically,” they simply cannot comprehend the gravity of how contraception damages women.

    “Only with this view,” Alvaré added, “could a comedian or a government conclude that if a man has a condition that makes it difficult to procreate, that’s not a medical problem. But if a woman is in a position where she can procreate, then she needs some medicine, and it better be free.”

    Facepalm!

    …Alvaré appears frequently in the media — … She is a fellow at the conservative Witherspoon Institute in Princeton, New Jersey, where she focuses on issues of “conscience,” and she is one of the “circle of experts” for the National Organization for Marriage’s Ruth Institute, which aims to shape public opinion on college campuses and elsewhere about “marriage as the proper context for sex and childrearing.” …

    When I first saw her speak at a panel discussion on the HHS mandate and religious freedom at Georgetown University in March, Alvaré crammed 50 years of legal, medical, Catholic, sexual and sociological history into a breathless dissertation about how the availability of contraception has led to the “immiseration” of women. She accused the Obama administration, through its reliance on the Institute of Medicine’s recommendations on contraception coverage, of being motivated by possible anti-Catholic “animus,” and dismissed out of hand the relevance of the scientific and medical evidence the IOM report presented. For Alvaré, the medical evidence is purely ideological and untrustworthy, precisely because it is premised on the usefulness of contraceptives and compiled by people who favor the availability of contraception and abortion.

    Headdesk.

    At the heart of Alvaré’s persistent arguments are what she presents as two essential truths: Birth control is bad for women’s health and well-being, and the government’s effort to legislate insurance coverage for it by religious institutions represents a violation of both religious freedom and the separation of church and state…. It’s not just that the government is telling them to cover the cost of contraceptives, as Catholic University president John Garvey has argued; it’s that the government is telling them how to be Catholic….

    Alvaré takes this idea that the government is interfering in Catholic affairs and piles on the completely fallacious argument that the government aims to harm women by promoting sexual promiscuity with contraceptives that don’t even work anyway. On the latter point, she echoes the falsehoods promoted by her former employer, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops….

    “When you invent parachutes,” she said in Steubenville, “more people die jumping out of planes.” But, contra Alvaré, teen pregnancies are now at an all-time low, thanks to contraception. She laments increases in non-marital birth rates — but non-marital birth rates don’t mean contraceptives fail. Higher rates of non-marital births might demonstrate exactly what Alvaré doesn’t want to hear: that contraceptives aren’t made widely available — or correctly used — often enough. Or the statistics might just mean that women are choosing to have children in a manner inconsistent with the sexual mores of Helen Alvaré. In any case, contraceptives, when used correctly — forgive me for having to reiterate this — are highly successful at preventing pregnancy….

  211. Owlmirror says

    I am also the kind of weirdo who keeps a whale skull in the living room,

    Adult or juvenile?

    Odontocete or rorqual?

    Is it just sitting on the floor or something, or is it on a pillar in a display case?

    Details, plz!

  212. The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa) says

    Owlmirror: I never get tired of skulls. A cetacean skull of any kind would be a crowning jewel in my collection.

    Which reminds me, the male black bear skull should be ready for final stripping and then indoor life. I can’t express how glad I am that it finally stopped leaking brain sludge.

  213. says

    I bury my (dead) rats in a planter outside, wait the appropriate time, then retrieve their skulls. Rat skulls are awesome.
     
    I know it’s strange, what can I say?

  214. Happiestsadist says

    Owlmirror: Odontoceti (pilot whale), I’m guessing juvenile, and weathered both from being found on a beach by its original (well, second, really) owner and then being out on her porch.

    And it’s just on the floor. Between the balcony door and the Ugly Chair (so comfy!). The Mr.’s cat likes to snuggle with it.

  215. 'Tis Himself says

    Okay, now everyone’s supposed to remind me that this will be an audience of professionals and scientists, most of whom will have scary accents.

    There should be no doubt you should give a talk. After all

    <scary accent>

    Ve haf ways to make you talk!

    </scary accent>

  216. Happiestsadist says

    TLC @ #287: So glad I didn’t have to deal with brain when I got the only skull I had to clean myself (squirrel). It was almost clean when I found it, so all I had to do was simmer off the remaining skin bits.

    Caine @ #289: I don’t think it’s that weird. Rat skulls look awesome, and as someone with the cremains of a few pets in little containers on the shelves, it’s not like i’m in a position to judge.

  217. old man jenkins ॐ says

    Giliell,

    That’s why I was talking about the “ethical better than thou” folks. True is that they’re still making choices that cause harm to animals and the environment the same way meat/dairy farming does. Only the relationship is less direct. And they have justified for themselves that those choices are reasonable. But they feel entitled to judge other people who make different choices.

    This is exactly the same claim that conservatives make about people who drive and advocate more fuel-efficient automobiles.

    You are incorrect, because eating a veg* diet does in fact result in fewer animals being harmed. Purchasing fewer computers means reduced consumption of rare earth elements. Turning off the lights and computers you aren’t currently using means reduced use of coal. Driving less, and driving more efficient cars, means reduced use of oil.

    The claim is false when conservatives use it against fuel efficiency, and it’s false when you use it too. (Whether you have the same motivations they do would be interesting to investigate.)

  218. julian says

    Probably just said something to Scented Nectar at Hallquist’s that’s going to give Coyne and Blackford the vapors. Walking away before I say anything else out of anger.

  219. Janine: History’s Greatest Monster says

    Just as well, julian, John D followed up with an other dose of “teh stupid”.

  220. Josh, Official SpokesKraftDinner says

    And what you said was absolutely right, Julian. She’s one of the most morally disgusting commenters I’ve ever come across online. I despise her.

  221. says

    I think I have to pich the horde’s brains, here. What is the easiest way to clean bones? I have heard burial, boiling, and some other methods, but I haven’t really tried any yet. Everything I’ve picked up has been old and sun-bleached.

    I have heard from one local fish and wildlife guy that he just dumps ‘em on a fire ant pile for a week or so. Links would be fine if this is too squickie for TET..

  222. Janine: History’s Greatest Monster says

    Sorry, RahXephon, that is a dead link.

    Or is that the point?

    *snort*

  223. says

    Arrrghhhh! I posted too soon. I was going to go back and add to the top my sympathies for Caine’s loss, and say that I have been tempted to keep the skulls of pets before, too. I think with canids, though that there may be some legal issues there.

  224. The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa) says

    MikeG: I don’t like boiling, it can cause skullbones to fall apart.

    I usually just do the open-air rotdown method. But almost all of my skulls came to me 90 percent defleshed by natural exposure, so the smell never gets too bad.

    Once I feel it’s rotted enough, I soak in bleach for a while and scrape and pull off the remaining rotten flesh, using whatever blades and pliers I have around.

  225. says

    Mike G, I just bury. Given the amount of insect activity where I am, it doesn’t take long for a clean skeleton. Of course, when I say ‘not that long’, I tend to forget, so the remains are usually buried more than 6 months.

  226. Happiestsadist says

    ScentedNectar is by far one of the nastiest, most gleefully willfully ignorant people I’ve come across. She is the textbook definition of “internalized misogyny”.

  227. RahXephon, Habitual Misspeaker says

    Oh, goddamnit. That is seriously the first time I’ve borked a link, and of course it happens when I forget to preview…

    Anyway, here it is.

  228. Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    @David:

    What are you referring to? Something I said? Something John Morales said?

    I was referring to:

    *lightbulb moment* I had never made the connection between “crip” and “crippled”. I had simply treated “crip” as meaningless or of unknown meaning.

    when I said:

    I ♥ you. I just totally get how one can be so deep into study of words and so used to them revealing unexpected meanings or connections that one stops making assumptions about them… and then can miss what is to others quite obvious. I’ve done this myself, though not with linguistics, a field in which I’ve had no study at all.

    make sense now?

  229. says

    MikeG:

    Arrrghhhh! I posted too soon. I was going to go back and add to the top my sympathies for Caine’s loss, and say that I have been tempted to keep the skulls of pets before, too. I think with canids, though that there may be some legal issues there.

    Thank you. ♥ With dogs, it depends on where you live (as to whether or not it’s legal to bury on your property, and if it isn’t, can you get away with it anyway) and the size of the corpse.

    There are farmers here who, when they manage to shoot coyotes (sorry, TLC, I don’t like it either), skin them and toss them over the Muddy Creek bridge. Left to nature, it’s not long before you have a stripped down, almost clean skeleton. Most people wouldn’t want to skin their former pet, though. I wouldn’t be able to do that.

  230. David Marjanović says

    Carlie, your flounce, she is not successful. (It’s okay with me, I’d miss you.)

    That’s because you don’t know me.

    No. Really. That is the first thought that came through my damaged mind.

    That reminds me of my attitude when playing soccer with people I haven’t played before: they treat me as if I were good at it, they give me the ball on occasion because they expect me to do something useful with it, because they don’t know any better yet.

    Turns out (twice so far) most of them aren’t actually better than I; school, where almost everyone male was much better (and the teachers expected everyone to be on their level), was actually an outlier.

    “When you invent parachutes,” she said in Steubenville, “more people die jumping out of planes.”

    That may be so, but at the same time, fewer people die in crashing planes. Doesn’t that number more than offset the number of those who die jumping?

    Christ, what an asshole.

    I bury my (dead) rats in a planter outside, wait the appropriate time, then retrieve their skulls. Rat skulls are awesome.

    I know it’s strange, what can I say?

    ♥ You’re in very good company. The ScienceBlogs version of Tetrapod Zoology has a post on “How to rot down dead bodies”. I hope the comments are being restored.

  231. says

    Happiestsadist:

    ScentedNectar is by far one of the nastiest, most gleefully willfully ignorant people I’ve come across. She is the textbook definition of “internalized misogyny”.

    Xe is also an outright liar. When SN first showed up here, it took less than 5 posts and the inconsistencies were glaring. When called on them, the bullshit started and it’s never stopped.

  232. The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa) says

    There are farmers here who, when they manage to shoot coyotes (sorry, TLC, I don’t like it either), skin them and toss them over the Muddy Creek bridge.

    I find it aesthetically unappealing… but I understand the need for population control.

    I hate it when some people use it as an excuse for gleeful and wanton cruelty, though.

    It doesn’t seem to be making an actual dent in the population one way or the other though.

  233. Josh, Official SpokesKraftDinner says

    Leftside-I left this at Skepchick under your comment.

    And when will he stop using “message” as a verb? Repeatedly. In everything he writes lately. He’s fucking obsessed with buzzwords. Fixations on trendy “tactics” in communication are diagnostic of people who don’t have anything substantive to say and a whole lot to say about how they’re going to say it.

  234. says

    David:

    The ScienceBlogs version of Tetrapod Zoology has a post on “How to rot down dead bodies”.

    Really? I’ll have to look that up. It’s always good to know more.

  235. David Marjanović says

    Sorry, RahXephon, that is a dead link.

    Or is that the point?

    *snort*

    :-D :-D :-D

    make sense now?

    Oh! Yes! :-) What’s going on is 1) I’m not a native speaker of English – we don’t abbreviate that much that often in German; 2) my imagination is quite limited.

  236. says

    @ Lynna, OM:

    What’s Helen Alvaré’s excuse for not being able to properly assess the role of contraception in women’s health?

    Because, she argued, Stewart and the government share the belief that sex “is not related to procreation directly, intrinsically, axiomatically,” they simply cannot comprehend the gravity of how contraception damages women.

    “Only with this view,” Alvaré added, “could a comedian or a government conclude that if a man has a condition that makes it difficult to procreate, that’s not a medical problem.”

    Er… She must be trapped in an alternate world? One with hallucinogenic atmosphere, maybe. And where men *only* ask Viagra prescription for procreative purposes, no, no, srsly, for realz, not just wanting to fornicate, doc, I kid you not. o_O

  237. Sili says

    Well, V**gr* may help procreation. If some sinners abuse it, that’s an issue between them and Satan.

    But birth control can only serve to hinder procreation so that’s inherently evil.

    Sheeesh. Why do people find this sophistimacated theology so hard to fathom?

  238. Janine: History’s Greatest Monster says

    Sex is degrading and the act can only be redeemed by the appearance of a baby nine months later.

  239. Cipher, OM, MQ says

    :-) Do explain.

    I think the topic is actually interesting, and it’s an area that hasn’t gotten much attention (how Roman slaves construct their masculinity in light of the fact that free men’s masculinity depends on their right to physical integrity, which slave men don’t have), and I think I’ve struck on some interesting ideas, but I hate writing it so much I could cry, and every time I actually write something for it, I hate it and have to delete it.

  240. RahXephon, Habitual Misspeaker says

    Oh great. I’ve been sucked into another drama-filled thread read at Hallquist’s place. I really wish someone would tell Abdullah that his “the skeptic/atheist movement should only be made up of SCIENTISTS talking SCIENCE so Rebecca Watson should STFU” game is ridiculous beyond measure.

    It’s like the Dictionary Atheist thing mixed with misogyny.

  241. Cipher, OM, MQ says

    And Caine, I will tell him. I think he’s probably having a really good day because he’s going to Pride :) So I’m all happy for him.

  242. says

    *yawn*
    Going to bed now.
    Amazingly it will bw the first time in years that I’ll sleep in my bedroom all alone.
    Strange.

    Also watched part of a concert by “Die Toten Hosen” on TV. The guys are 2 years older than god by now and still the Security’s nightmare

  243. Josh, Official SpokesKraftDinner says

    RaH, you know the most hilarious part? Hallquist is so naive he actually thinks the slimepitters who showed up are interested in anything he writes not on the topic of Rebecca Watson. He even put up a post directing them to his greatest hits.

    Lulz.

  244. Sili says

    I really wish someone would tell Abdullah that his “the skeptic/atheist movement should only be made up of SCIENTISTS talking SCIENCE so Rebecca Watson should STFU” game is ridiculous beyond measure.

    Yeah, fuck that Randi dude! What the fuck does he know about SCIENCE?!

    And Penn Jillette? And Michael Shermer? And Dan Barker? And Daniel Dennett? And Christopher Hitchens (pbuh)? Fuckers, the lot of them! Deadweights on skepticism!

  245. Tony says

    Caine:
    I’m so sorry for your loss.
    What’s the typical lifespan for rats?
    ________________________________

    Now for my daily dose of “Things That Make Me Want To Scream”:
    Last night at work, after closing, two employees (one male, one female) kept making continuous jokes using female gendered insult (the four letter one that starts with ‘C'; I’m erring on the side of caution here by not using the term, as I’d like to stay within etiquette wherever possible). The guy made the comment that he didn’t understand why some people didn’t like the term. As exhausted as I was (little sleep before I had to work last night), all I could muster was a comment that I could explain one big reason why people have issues with it if I had sufficient time (and coherency of mind…this was about 3:30 AM after 10 hours of work). They kept at it for so long that I had to go outside and clean the patio to get away from them.
    On the plus side, I got to have a fun conversation with a group of four about driving long distances-solo-and what can be done to keep entertained. I had forgotten the audio book I purchased a few years back about “100 things everyone should know how to do”.
    http://www.simplyaudiobooks.com/audio-books/Experts'+Guide+to+100+Things+Everyone+Should+Know+How+to+Do/24863/
    (I found that even the ones I had no interest in were still enlightening to listen to)
    ..
    BTW, is there a way to find specific comments without having to scroll through the entire last few pages of TET? Someone explained how to do the _href_ tag thing, which I loved, but forgot to copy/save or even write down. I feel technologically behind sometimes (I still don’t have an Ipod or any ‘music in your ears’ listening devices).

  246. dianne says

    Are you afraid of not understanding the questions?

    The standard method for dealing with this problem is to simply answer the question you’re hoping they asked.

  247. says

    Caine:

    DJ could have saved himself many a word if he had simply wrote “That’s nice, I’m an ally, so don’t be mean and to prevent all that talking, don’t mind while I toss you over this bridge.”

    Who’s up for doing a “Privilege-Denying JT Grothe” quickmeme?

    Ogvorbis, as yet another Pharynguloid who knows exactly how you and David feel, I would be honored to meet you offline, if the opportunity ever arose.

    Lynna, Alvaré sounds like just one more in a long, long line of Catho-fundie propagandists, calling up down and black white.

    “Religious liberty” is, of course, the liberty to force other people to obey the laws you ascribe to your deity. This interpretation was openly embraced by Scots-Irish emigrants, as explained in David Hackett Fischer’s Albion’s Seed, which is a must-read for anyone who wants to know why the U.S. is the way it is, culturally and politically.

    Julian: What Josh said. SN’s passive-aggression makes it worse (smilies, “heheheheh” and the like). I’ve Adblocked her avatar because just the sight of her face has come to infuriate me.

    RahXephon, I would like to send you an email. Do you feel comfortable posting an email address here, or should I ask another regular whose email address I have to “broker the introduction”?

    Josh, Hallquist’s defense of Ryan Long is what really made my jaw drop w/r/t his post. I mean… really?

  248. Janine: History’s Greatest Monster says

    . I really wish someone would tell Abdullah that his “the skeptic/atheist movement should only be made up of SCIENTISTS talking SCIENCE so Rebecca Watson should STFU” game is ridiculous beyond measure.

    Seriously? Why don’t he send an e-mail to the Novello brothers and demand that they kick her off TSGU.

    Wait. Some people did. And they were ignored.

    Also, fuck it all, not all scientists are atheists and not all atheists are scientists. Way to argue for keeping atheism segregated in a specific class.

  249. RahXephon, Habitual Misspeaker says

    RaH, you know the most hilarious part? Hallquist is so naive he actually thinks the slimepitters who showed up are interested in anything he writes not on the topic of Rebecca Watson. He even put up a post directing them to his greatest hits.

    Yeah, I went back over there (not through the original link here, but through the FtB sidebar thingie) and saw it when the page loaded. I was literally gobsmacked by his “while you’re all here talking about how bitchez ain’t shit, may I interest you in these fine leather jackets?” sales pitch.

    You know, first JT, now Hallquist…I’m starting to wonder if displaying rank misogyny is a new way to bump up page views.

  250. soul_biscuit says

    Caine, I’m sorry to hear about Chas. I haven’t been around TET long enough to have heard many of the stories, but I’ve learned enough to know that Chas was an exceptional rat.

    Reminded me of the rat I had in my classroom when I was teaching high school science a few years ago. The kids named him Pancho. He was rescued from one of the local colleges, so I’m sure he was fairly old, and I doubt he’s still alive. I vividly remember when one of the chuckleheads put one of our Madagascar hissing roaches into his cage. Watching a rat eat a three-inch insect was strangely mesmerizing, if unsettling. (I loved those roaches!)

    To answer Crip Dyke’s question from a long time ago, I go to law school in Northern California. (Not one of the ones people have heard of! But a good one nonetheless.) One more year left! I hope to be a public defender when I grow up.

    I thought I had read FTB pretty faithfully since it started up, but before the latest shitstorm beginning with Jen McCreight’s revelation of the so-called blacklist and culminating (I hope) in the current DJ Grothe foot-mouthing, I had never seen people showing up in the comments sections just to point out how much no one likes FTB bloggers and how they should just shut up and die or whatever. Have I just not been paying attention?

  251. Sili says

    Seriously? Why don’t he send an e-mail to the Novell[a] brothers and demand that they kick her off TSGU.

    Is anyone but Steve actually a scientist on that show?

    I mean, if they were to kick anyone off, they should start with Jay. Just what does he contribute?

  252. dianne says

    And where men *only* ask Viagra prescription for procreative purposes, no, no, srsly, for realz, not just wanting to fornicate, doc, I kid you not. o_O

    Perhaps they’re unaware of the most recent infectious disease crisis: rampant STDs in retirement communities. Old people are having far more sex than their kids and grandkids feel comfortable thinking about. (Especially, apparently, in Massachusetts. What the…)

  253. soul_biscuit says

    I mean, if they were to kick anyone off, they should start with Jay. Just what does he contribute?

    He can read quotes and yell names pretty well.

    And doesn’t he direct their videos? Though that doesn’t have much to do with the podcast.

  254. dianne says

    You are incorrect, because eating a veg* diet does in fact result in fewer animals being harmed.

    Data? Your statement sounds right, but it’d be nice to have some back up for the statement.

  255. Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    soul_biscuit:

    Interested in meeting up? It would be a drive, but it would be worth it… I’d love to talk with someone else from pharyngula about life, the universe, and everything…and along the way talk about law school, the law, & the constitution as well.

    What are you emphasizing in your electives?

  256. cm's changeable moniker says

    Pushing for the thousand!

    Rey Fox: “I don’t really want to go to Kinko’s again”.

    Do not misunderestimate the power of Kinko’s:

    Clinton wowed Congress with a revised balanced-budget proposal Monday, utilizing eye-catching, easy-to-read color charts printed at Kinko’s to win over Republican opponents.

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/clinton-makes-federal-budget-proposal-more-dynamic,839/

    Ogvorbis: “management is the economy’s way of removing useless people from the economic system”.

    Grump. :-) The Dilbert Principle. (Recently invoked by the troll on the “Real Scientists” thread, too.)

    Caine/Audley: “Darkfetus is feeding on your braaaiiinz./Zombie fetus!”

    Pregnancy amnesia.

    “Why did no one tell me this stuff before I got all preggers?”

    Because then you’d never have kids. Replacement rate, we needz it!

    Sili:

    It’s most likely a balloon lantern. [...] Far too hard to judge distance and speed even when knowing it’s hard

    Funnily enough, two went over last night. They started out about equal, but then one just zoomed (about as fast as the ISS on a 5-minute pass) and the other just dawdled …

    And, Caine, sympathies and condolences.

  257. old man jenkins ॐ says

    ““Religious liberty”” is, of course, the liberty to force other people to obey the laws you ascribe to your deity. This interpretation was openly embraced by Scots-Irish emigrants, as explained in David Hackett Fischer’s Albion’s Seed,

    It might be a fine book — the reviewers complain that it’s not racist enough — but that website, IHR, is a neo-Nazi site.

    http://www.adl.org/holocaust/ihr.asp
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_for_Historical_Review

  258. Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    Oh, and

    Soul_biscuit?

    I’m guessing P or SC.

    On a related topic of unknown but good schools:

    In oregon, I think Willamette is a mediocre undergraduate institution (at best) but located in the capitol it actual has a good law school with lots of connections to state government. Though it’s out-of-state rep isn’t much (in fact, is generally non-existent, not good or bad, just unknown), it does a very good job of prepping students for working with (or against) state government in Oregon.

    Specialized, sure, but good at what it does. Lots of relatively high placed people in Oregon government are Willamette law grads.

  259. soul_biscuit says

    Crip Dyke, that would be great! It would be a drive indeed, though. I drove down here when I moved from the Walla Walla area of Washington, and I barely managed to stay conscious. Even after a few hours of sleep in Oregon.

    But yes, I would like to meet up. I’ve never met anyone from these parts either, and it would be great to talk about common interests.

    I’m focusing intently on criminal law. I plan to go into indigent criminal defense, if I can find jobs at least. This fall I’ll do a clinic at the local public defender’s office. Standing up for the constitutional rights of poor accused people, almost all of them members of minorities, seems to me a good way to express the need for limitations on official power. It also leads to a lot of frustration and even depression, as failure is frequent, but I’m determined to give it a try. It’s also one of the surest ways to spend plenty of time in the courtroom.

  260. soul_biscuit says

    Crip Dyke, what’s P or SC? I might as well stop being cryptic; I attend Hastings in San Francisco. It’s well-regarded in California for producing lawyers with practical skills, but I don’t know how well-known it is out of state. I hope at least a few have heard of it in case my fiance and I decide to move to the Seattle area instead of California.

  261. RahXephon, Habitual Misspeaker says

    BTW, I finished my read/skim of the Hallquist thread. Oof.

    Also, it’s pretty sad to note that another blog has become a colony of Slimepitaria.

  262. Rey Fox says

    Having few if any meatspace friends (depending on definitions), I’m used to people not caring much about my whereabouts or needing me in any way or otherwise inquiring about me; . . . .

    Since moving away from my hometown and becoming a fairly independent student, I’ve often thought that if I were to die suddenly in my home or on one of my bike trips, it could be a week or two before anyone even noticed that they hadn’t seen me around in a while.

    Sex is degrading and the act can only be redeemed by the appearance of a baby nine months later.

    Through a painful and often deadly procedure.

    You wrote the paper.

    Actually, the paper is going to be the last thing I’ll do.

    I don’t know what the schedule of everything is going to be, but when I last presented a poster, it was in the evening after all the talks were over. So the only thing I really ended up missing out on was all of the hors d’ouevres being served.

    I wrote back saying that I’ll give a talk. There’s no sense traveling halfway around the world to be in a glorified science fair. :P

  263. RahXephon, Habitual Misspeaker says

    Also, I’m betting pretty soon that people start comparing the response DJ’s gotten with the EGate shitstorm that Rebecca got.*

    “Someone suggested he voluntarily resign! That’s totes identical to getting multiple rape threats! HE’S A VICTIM TUUUUUUUUUUU!”

    *If anyone can quote a case of this already happening, you win 5 dollars and a rag soaked with my tears.

  264. old man jenkins ॐ says

    Data? Your statement sounds right, but it’d be nice to have some back up for the statement.

    It can be shown by taking seriously the arguments against veg* diets, which all rely on pointing out that small animals die in grain harvesting. However, since meat-based diets involve feeding that grain to cows and chickens and then killing those animals, there are still fewer deaths in veg* diets.

  265. Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    I thought you might wanna be able to answer without making anything too public. When someone goes by an inter’nym, I tend to assume that that person wants to preserve anonymity.

    U of P = University of the Pacific, a school a lot like Willamette in Oregon.

    SC = Santa Clara. I didn’t think of Hastings.

  266. Rey Fox says

    Hey, my cousin goes to Wilamette! I don’t know what he studies (I’m not that good a cousin).

    Is anyone going to the AHA conference this week?

    Only if they can take me on.

  267. RahXephon, Habitual Misspeaker says

    It can be shown by taking seriously the arguments against veg* diets, which all rely on pointing out that small animals die in grain harvesting. However, since meat-based diets involve feeding that grain to cows and chickens and then killing those animals, there are still fewer deaths in veg* diets.

    I think that’s because some people misinterpret (deliberately or not) the position that when one takes up a veggie diet for ethical reasons, they’re trying to do harm reduction, not harm elimination. By going for the latter, it lets them paint the position as impossible and naive.

    It actually doesn’t seem to be all that different in kind from the arguments we’ve been hearing since EGate about how, if we want like, an anti-harassment policy at conventions, then we’re trying to Stop People From Ever Getting Laid and then The Human Race Will Die Out.

  268. Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    @ Rey Fox – Undergrad?

  269. Antiochus Epiphanes says

    Caine: sorry to read about Chas.

    Rey: I like to give talks much better than posters because I find that I have much more control over the order that information is delivered. People often have a tendency to read posters in pieces or start asking questions without having read anything…you end up kind of giving ten talks, with the tempo dictated by the listener. I find that maddening.

    It used to make me very nervous though, so I would write my talk as if it were a script, insert blocking and beats, and practice it like it was a performance*. Time consuming, but by the time I gave my talk, it was rote and incredibly easy to give.

    Also, I think I read yesterday that Rey Fox isn’t really your name…I noticed what I thought was an amusing concordance between your first and last name long ago, and this explains it.

    *I used to do some amateur (and amateurish) acting, so this was kind of fun.

  270. dianne says

    However, since meat-based diets involve feeding that grain to cows and chickens and then killing those animals, there are still fewer deaths in veg* diets.

    Then a diet involving grass fed cows (or whatever animal) and little or no grain might result in a lower animal death count? Habitat destruction might be an issue as well, though. Cows, at least, are notorious for needing lots of land and thus destroying large amounts of wilderness. It’d be nice to see someone put actual numbers to it all, though.

  271. cm's changeable moniker says

    Missed one! Giliell: “Germans are puntual. Being late is considered a form of disrespect”. Not just Germans. W. Somerset Maugham:

    Punctuality is a compliment you pay to the intelligent and a rebuke you pay to the stupid.

    http://www.quoteidea.com/punctuality-quotes

    (I’m kinda with the “deadlines” one, myself.)

  272. oaksterdam says

    Rey, I got it and I lol’d. I wanted to post the literal video version which cracks me up every damn time but I’ve screwed up the video linky here too often. I know it’s right there above where I’m typing and I’m suitably embarrassed.

  273. soul_biscuit says

    Crip Dyke:

    Yeah, I do prefer to maintain anonymity, but I guess I figured Hastings is a big enough school that disclosing it won’t make a difference.

  274. David Marjanović says

    Catching up with the first 223 comments of this subthread:

    Anyone have any opinions on it? Worth it? and most importantly…

    Does it have JarJar?

    Simpsons episode closing credits:

    “Dedicated to the people who died in Star Wars:

    Obi-Wan Kenobi

    Anakin Skywalker

    [...]

    Unfortunately not
    Jar-Jar Binks”

    (trigger warning)

    This is why I can’t stay in TET while pitbull’s around, or mount a direct critique.

    Alternating between aggressive, invalidating, or undermining behavior and charm/praise is a characteristic tactic of emotional abuse.

    …Ah. I’ll have to watch that about myself, then, because I tend to recognize the facets of multifaceted people and comment on them separately – even taking pride in that, because I don’t blithely dismiss people as a whole the way an ad-hominem argument does.

    Heh. Interesting that you both are in economics. Perhaps there’s something about your names…

    There are two Andrew Milner in vertebrate paleontology. They sometimes both come to meetings of the Society of Vertebrate Paleontology. One is in England, the other is the state paleontologist of Utah.

    The wife of the English one is called Angela, and she’s in the same field! So, “A. Milner” can be quite ambiguous.

    Michael P. Taylor, who works on sauropods, and Michael A. Taylor, who works on plesiosaurs, have also been confused.

    Many hugz and copious amounts of chocolate and other goodies your way via the magic of the Gynocratic Hive Mind Transport System (GHIMTS).

    FTW!

    I don’t know why I didn’t wonder about this before…what the heck is the point of a middle name?

    To confuse the evil spirits that want to harm a child but know only one name. Somehow.

    Also, greater number of patron saints, just to make sure.

    …And finally, in Germany, at least one given name has to be unambiguously gendered. No idea why, but it’s an actual law. Many Turkish names are unisex.

    It also cuts the number of children needed to preserve all the obscure naming traditions in a family in half.

    This is why middle names are Serious Business in the USA and not here: over here, families don’t have naming traditions.

  275. Hekuni Cat, MQG says

    Caine, you have my deepest condolences. Chas was simply awesome. I will miss hearing about his antics. You are not alone in shedding tears at your loss. *hugs and much love*

  276. Hekuni Cat, MQG says

    Crip Dyke, *hugs*

    Katherine Lorraine, good luck tomorrow.

    Rey Fox, go for it. I’m sure you’ll be a splendid speaker.

  277. says

    Tony:

    I’m so sorry for your loss.
    What’s the typical lifespan for rats?

    Thank you. It’s 1 to 3 years.

    Soul Biscuit:

    Caine, I’m sorry to hear about Chas. I haven’t been around TET long enough to have heard many of the stories, but I’ve learned enough to know that Chas was an exceptional rat.

    Reminded me of the rat I had in my classroom when I was teaching high school science a few years ago. The kids named him Pancho. He was rescued from one of the local colleges, so I’m sure he was fairly old, and I doubt he’s still alive. I vividly remember when one of the chuckleheads put one of our Madagascar hissing roaches into his cage. Watching a rat eat a three-inch insect was strangely mesmerizing, if unsettling. (I loved those roaches!)

    Thank you. Oh my, I imagine that was unsettling, to say the least. I was watching Chas once, when he moved like lightning, grabbed a fat fly out of the air and proceeded to bite its head off. It’s a helluva thing.

    cm, thank you.

    AE, thank you.

  278. says

    Hekuni Cat:

    Caine, you have my deepest condolences. Chas was simply awesome. I will miss hearing about his antics. You are not alone in shedding tears at your loss. *hugs and much love*

    Thank you so very much. *hugs and much love back*

    Tony, to search comments, use Ctrl + f.

  279. David Marjanović says

    I think the topic is actually interesting, and it’s an area that hasn’t gotten much attention (how Roman slaves construct their masculinity in light of the fact that free men’s masculinity depends on their right to physical integrity, which slave men don’t have), and I think I’ve struck on some interesting ideas, but I hate writing it so much I could cry, and every time I actually write something for it, I hate it and have to delete it.

    I can imagine. *hug*

    Hallquist is so naive he actually thinks the slimepitters who showed up are interested in anything he writes not on the topic of Rebecca Watson. He even put up a post directing them to his greatest hits.

    And he seems to believe in all seriousness that lots of people would want to talk about the boring W. L. Craig again!

    Alfie was in the freezer awaiting Chas. Didn’t seem right otherwise.

    *hug*

    And so, to bed.

  280. The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa) says

    Then a diet involving grass fed cows (or whatever animal) and little or no grain might result in a lower animal death count? Habitat destruction might be an issue as well, though. Cows, at least, are notorious for needing lots of land and thus destroying large amounts of wilderness. It’d be nice to see someone put actual numbers to it all, though.

    I’ve always felt it would make more sense if we were to focus more on more ‘efficient’ species for agriculture than cows, such as goats, or even smaller animals like rabbits.

  281. The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa) says

    Holy shit, this Bowen Island extra pale ale is HOPPY. Way hoppier than expected. But it’s good. Very good.

    I’m a fan. Bowen Island Brewing Co’s products all rock, even that stupid hemp beer.

  282. Rey Fox says

    Crip Dyke: MS research assistant. I wasn’t this motivated in my undergrad years.

    I noticed what I thought was an amusing concordance between your first and last name long ago, and this explains it.

    Would you mind saying what you think it is? You’re probably right about it.

    I wanted to post the literal video version which cracks me up every damn time but I’ve screwed up the video linky here too often.

    You just gotta give it a whack with a pipe wrench.

    And since I see that Cipher brought up her aversion to watching musical performance and mentioned that I quoted Seinfeld last time, I went and found the quote again.

    Jerry: “Naaaaaa…I can’t watch a man sing a song.”
    Elaine: “What are you..crazy?”
    Jerry: “They get all emotional , they sway. It’s embarrassing.”

  283. says

    @ David:

    This is why middle names are Serious Business in the USA and not here: over here, families don’t have naming traditions.

    You mean in Germany? I don’t know about other European countries, but in my parents’ generation, traditional naming patterns were still a reality here in France, and it hasn’t completely died down. (With different degrees depending on the region, and the social status.)

    For instance, naming a child after his godmother (for girls) or godfather (for boys), or after the saint of the day of their birth. Catholic parents may also add “Marie” as a second or third Christian name, for both girls and boys. With the vogue of exotic first names, comes also the necessity for Christians to add a second name to be used only for baptism. It happened to my mother, her second name isn’t even written down on her identity documents, but only on parish registers!

    And then there’s the names in the family: children named after a grand-parent or other old relative, especially if said relative is recently deceased. (That’s how my brother was named after one of his grand-fathers.)

    An even more peculiar thing is the case of people who always use another first name altogether than any of the ones they were given. It used to be a sort of superstition, in my grand-parents time (early 20th Century), in the country: boys, especially, were often known by another name than the one written down officially. Not for any particular reason, just a vague (and not really conscious) case of “let the Devil be confused about who’s who among our kids”.

  284. Rey Fox says

    Side note: I saw Primus recently, and very often Les Claypool would play his bass solo parts facing away from the audience.

  285. Hekuni Cat, MQG says

    Caine:

    Alfie was in the freezer awaiting Chas. Didn’t seem right otherwise.

    ♥ ♥ ♥

  286. says

    Ogvorbis, what do you mean a tooth necklace is not weird? It’s not wrong, and weird is frequently more interesting and fun than normal, but of course it’s weird! Yay weird!

    I don’t think I could stand pets with such a short life-span as rats. It’s bad enough that our two cats died at 7 and 9 of a genetic kidney disorder, when we’d hoped for 15+.

    Re DJG’s screed – it started out ok, not looking like a notpology at all. And then it sort of went into a long boring ‘look how good I’ve been’ shuffle. And there was a needle-across-record skrrrrrcchhh noise in my head when he went right back into “so shut up about it already” mode.

    @Tony, it’s generally OK to say teh bad wurdz here if you are discussing them. We do understand the use-reference distinction. We have heard them all before. However, some people can’t bring themselves to do even this. I have trouble writing out the n-word in full.

    @Dianne, don’t ask. Just don’t. Oh wait, too late. He will always assume that all meat is grain-fed and completely ignore all other models. Mixed farming with carp and frogs in the rice paddies of Asia; the ancient western tradition of scrap-fed and foraging pigs and chickens; the complete inability of steppes, scrublands or highlands to even produce grain, yet still provide pasture; the serious ecological devastations due to land clearing, monocropping, fertiliser runoffs etc – all these do not exist. It’s the evil big agribusiness versus pure and noble vegetarians eating soy that was umm, produced by fairies.

  287. The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa) says

    Reynard the Fox… shoulda got that, but didn’t.

    Trying Bowen Island’s Amber Ale now:

    prognosis: Excellent.

  288. The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa) says

    Sorry, I think I just totally misused the word ‘prognosis.’ Won’t happen again.

  289. Ogvorbis says

    Ogvorbis, what do you mean a tooth necklace is not weird?

    Tooth necklaces have probably been around since the first necklaces (or, at the very least, since we learned how to make holes in things). Not weird. Definitely not weird.

    I just had three fingers of Johnny Walker Black Label Scotch whisky.

    And it was good.

  290. Nutmeg says

    Rey Fox: Oh, good, you’re doing the talk! You’ll get a better audience than a poster, and it will be a good experience. Plus, I usually find it’s harder to get a spot at conferences for a talk than a poster, so you might as well seize the opportunity while you have it.

    David M.:

    Politeness is a lot more arbitrary than you seem to think. That’s why I hate it so much. All of it.

    I feel that way a lot of the time too. Sometimes the rules seem to make sense, and sometimes they seem designed to make people’s lives harder. I find it a lot easier to remember and follow the rules that make some kind of sense (to me at least). Maybe that’s what Ms. Daisy Cutter means about the Miss Manners approach. For example, writing thank-you cards to show gratitude is more obvious to me than something like dress code, which seems pretty arbitrary.

    I’m even prone to assuming there’s an ingroup (and I’m out of it) when there isn’t in fact one

    I hear you. It sucks. I find that I’m more confident than usual these days, but that’s probably because my entire social life revolves around the biology department, and I’ve been there long enough to be comfortable. I think that it takes me a lot of time to feel like I belong in a group, if I ever do; maybe you’re the same way.

    I would definitely feel like an outsider if I met a group of Horde members in meatspace. But I’m also sure that I would love them instantly – who wouldn’t want to spend time with people as smart and interesting as all of you?

    Sarahface: I don’t think I said hi yet. So, hi! Welcome to TET. Here is some complementary *lemonade*.

    Josh: SpokesKraftDinner is the best one yet.

    TLC:

    I can’t express how glad I am that it finally stopped leaking brain sludge.

    Best sentence of the day!

    Skulls: I would love a coyote skull. One of my friends studies canids; I should see if people have laid claim to all of her fox skulls yet. She was looking into getting a beetle (?) colony of some kind to strip the skulls down.

    ————-

    Survived the bridal shower. If I ever get married, I’m not doing anything even remotely like that.

  291. d(thunk) over d(MQG) = SQRRAWK! says

    Caine and Daisy Cutter:

    I obviously don’t know enough literature, but that actually makes sense.

    I like math and geography better.

  292. opposablethumbs says

    Teeth. I have every one of both Spawn’s milk teeth (at least I don’t think we lost any; might be the odd one missing) – each one in a separate envelope labelled with name, date, and which tooth it was (I got the labelling system wrong though – I used numbers as for adult teeth instead of letters as for milk teeth). We also have one of First Dog’s milk teeth (the only one we found – all the rest were probably eaten). (I didn’t know they might be crumbly until I read Bro Og’s comment, though). They are all there in their envelopes, on the top shelf to the left of the desk, look, just up there.
    .
    Cipher #319 Your topic actually sounds really fascinating. Is there any chance we might get to read [any of] it eventually? I, um, know a classicist (I think she’s a postgrad student and her girlfriend is a Classics professor) who also writes fiction about the classical world and is very very serious about getting her research right who would LOVE to read about this topic. I’m sorry it’s horrible to write, though :(
    .
    Good night Horde, read you tomorrow …

  293. Rey Fox says

    Caine, I meant. One of you needs a new name that’s not within two letters of the other one.

  294. Janine: History’s Greatest Monster says

    Teeth necklace? Now I am flashing back to the Sealab 2021 episode when Murphy is trapped under the cola machine and the cleaning robot is wearing a necklace made of his teeth that get knocked out bwhen the soda machine sends a can flying at Murphy’s face.

    BENJY!

  295. d(thunk) over d(MQG) = SQRRAWK! says

    Tooth Necklace:

    Sounds reasonable; I’m getting to the point where people are threatening to pull out my wisdom teeth.

  296. consciousness razor says

    And since I see that Cipher brought up her aversion to watching musical performance and mentioned that I quoted Seinfeld last time, I went and found the quote again.

    Jerry: “Naaaaaa…I can’t watch a man sing a song.”
    Elaine: “What are you..crazy?”
    Jerry: “They get all emotional , they sway. It’s embarrassing.”

    Uh… What is embarrassing? What about women? What about non-vocalists?

    Maybe those particular questions are just for Seinfeld, but “aversion to watching musical performance” does not compute.

  297. says

    Rey:

    One of you needs a new name that’s not within two letters of the other one.

    Not gonna happen. Well, I suppose I could just go by Fleur du mal…nope.

    Fuck my pancreas, Imma have a beer too. One of Mister’s wheat ales.

  298. says

    CR:

    but “aversion to watching musical performance” does not compute.

    Eh, it does for a lot of people, I think. I can watch a musical performance, however, I prefer not to do so. I’d rather simply listen.

  299. Antiochus Epiphanes says

    Rey: That’s the connection I saw…it just never occurred to me that it was a nym. I never seem to have any insight that isn’t tinged with stupidity.

    Stupidity is like my garlic…everything I cook has a little in it.

  300. says

    AE:

    it just never occurred to me that it was a nym.

    It would make a great real name, in fairness. I always thought it was very clever, one of my all time favourite nyms.

  301. The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa) says

    Nutmeg:

    Skulls: I would love a coyote skull. One of my friends studies canids; I should see if people have laid claim to all of her fox skulls yet.

    I have two coyote skulls. Both of them have absolutely HORRIBLE teeth, the ‘younger’ appearing one (I have no way of knowing this personally) has chipped lower canines and rotted out front teeth, the other has a long-lost and grown over canine, almost no front teeth, and absolutely rotten molars.

    Both of them were collected in completely different areas (fraser valley vs near Merritt) and environments. Are wild canids just naturally prone to terrible tooth decay?

  302. The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa) says

    Fuck my pancreas, Imma have a beer too. One of Mister’s wheat ales.

    I think a beer is totally justified under the circumstances. And I’ve always kinda wanted to try these wheat beers… have yet to see one in the liquor store though.

  303. says

    HappiestSadist:

    If awesomeness can be transmitted genetically, DarkFetus has hit the jackpot.

    *blushes!*

    thunk:

    FWIW, I think DF can’t help but turn out awesome with parents like you.

    QFFT.

    *blushes!!*

    Daisy:

    Oh, vomit. I’ve heard that also used as an excuse to shame and police gender-variant behavior in children.

    Yep. It’s completely fucked up on every level and it makes me feel really bad for my SiL’s daughter.

    Added bonus: I’m already being critisized for my parenting and the DF isn’t even out of me yet.

    David:

    Oh, sorry, I completely overlooked this somehow. :-(

    It’s okay. :)

    Rest assured, you totally overreacted. *bacon chocolate* :-)

    Whatever. You still deserve a kitty to snuggle in your lap. She’s warm and she purrs constantly. :D

    Mine are too tough for that. So I cut them using the nails of the other hand, sideways.

    I don’t know why, but this made my skin crawl. :-/

    TIME FOR GAME OF THRONES!!

  304. Cipher, OM, MQ says

    Maybe those particular questions are just for Seinfeld, but “aversion to watching musical performance” does not compute.

    Yeah, with me it’s not just men, and it’s not just singing. There are a number of musical instruments I can’t watch people play either, especially if they’re talented. Offhand, uncertainly, I think it’s that I start to get too absorbed into the music and I sort of panic. It does bear kind of an emotional resemblance to someone being inside my personal space when I don’t want them to be. But I don’t know for sure.

  305. old man jenkins ॐ says

    @Dianne, don’t ask. Just don’t. Oh wait, too late. He will always assume that all meat is grain-fed and completely ignore all other models.

    Alethea, you are lying,

    and Alethea, you know you are lying.

    Oh and Alethea, I know you know you are lying,

    since I remember you responded to me previously addressing grass models (that link again: grass is not a sustainable alternative).

    I don’t know what it is that compells you to lie about people, but I suggest you avoid doing it so transparently in the future.

  306. consciousness razor says

    Offhand, uncertainly, I think it’s that I start to get too absorbed into the music and I sort of panic.

    Sorry (if you don’t mind me asking), what is there to be panicked about?

    It does bear kind of an emotional resemblance to someone being inside my personal space when I don’t want them to be. But I don’t know for sure.

    I’m just trying to interpret this… So would you say it feels like you’re more in control of the experience or that it’s more predictable, if the music seems to be in your head and disembodied, rather than coming from the performers/instruments?

  307. old man jenkins ॐ says

    Mixed farming with carp and frogs in the rice paddies of Asia; the ancient western tradition of scrap-fed and foraging pigs and chickens; the complete inability of steppes, scrublands or highlands to even produce grain, yet still provide pasture;

    Now these here are interesting dishonesties, since they imply that I’ve claimed everyone on Earth could go vegan at this time.

    I have not.

    When we get the Sb comments back, I’ll be able to point to earlier discussions in which I’ve been explicit in saying that not everyone could do it at this time.

    What I’m generally careful to point out, time and time again, is that these conversations are taking place on certain blogs, with certain demographics of readers, people who generally could go vegan at this time. That’s quite a distance from your implication here, Alethea.

    the serious ecological devastations due to land clearing, monocropping, fertiliser runoffs etc – all these do not exist.

    I don’t advocate land clearing, monocropping, or unsustainable fertilizer usage.

    It’s particularly hypocritical for you, Alethea, to act like these things must be features of any vegan diet, while at the same time you claim to offer examples of nonvegan diets — specialized diets which happen to be exceedingly rare in industrialized nations — which are somehow supposed to be emblematic of nonvegan diets. You really can’t honestly have it both ways. If you get to claim all your exceedingly rare diets, then to be honest you must allow the same for your debate opponent.

    It’s the evil big agribusiness versus pure and noble vegetarians eating soy that was umm, produced by fairies.

    This is an egregious sort of lie, since I have never said anything about purity or nobility.

    It suggests you really have no intellectual honesty whatsoever.

  308. old man jenkins ॐ says

    An opinion piece in the NY times? Really?

    That’s not a response. If you want to challenge its claims, do so.

  309. Cipher, OM, MQ says

    So would you say it feels like you’re more in control of the experience or that it’s more predictable, if the music seems to be in your head and disembodied, rather than coming from the performers/instruments?

    This isn’t something I’ve really been able to examine very well, because I can’t remember running into anyone at all with the same problem, but it might be a control thing. Same with the panic.

  310. Cipher, OM, MQ says

    Although I don’t usually panic as much when there’s music I’m not in control of coming from speakers or things. And I can listen to people play musical instruments around me – I just can’t watch. I have to look away or cover my eyes and it’s better if there’s distance between me and them; people on stage, for instance.

  311. says

    Cipher,
    I don’t have exactly the same feeling watching a musical performance, unless it’s really intense, but might it be some combination (granted the emotional shortcut that music can offer) of intimate emotional contact with the performer and vice-versa? A bit like the urge to avert your eyes when someone shares an embarrassing story from their life?

  312. old man jenkins ॐ says

    dianne,

    Then a diet involving grass fed cows (or whatever animal) and little or no grain might result in a lower animal death count? Habitat destruction might be an issue as well, though. Cows, at least, are notorious for needing lots of land and thus destroying large amounts of wilderness.

    Any suggested alternatives to the typical diet (typical modern German diet, in this case), if suggested for ethical reasons as you’re doing here, would be in violation of Giliell’s insistence upon not being “ethical better than thou”, and “feel[ing] entitled to judge other people who make different choices.”

    What I’m interested in disputing is the claim that there’s nothing ethically better about a veg* diet, as opposed to whatever the average person is eating. That’s why I spoke up, because that’s obviously wrong,

    and I’m not much interested in playing pretend like meat-eaters always want to do on this issue. Nobody here who eats cattle actually refrains from consuming grain-fed cattle. Nobody here who eats chicken actually refrains from consuming grain-fed chickens. From my perspective, there is no point in talking about hypotheticals that make people feel better just to talk about which they then don’t go out and pursue.

  313. says

    I never seem to have any insight that isn’t tinged with stupidity.

    Antiochus Epiphanes, I can tell that this was ruefully serious, but I smiled at this remark – and totally resemble it! – so I may just steal it, if I may! Also garlic—yes!!!

  314. cicely. Just cicely. says

    It’s gross fiscal irresponsibility. Old Man Jenkins wouldn’t have lost his farm due to unpaid property taxes in the first place if he hadn’t invested his life savings in fog machines and infinitely-looping hallways in his ramshackle farmhouse.

    And the Coyote (Famishius vulgaris ingeniusi) could have dined well every night of the week for the money he spent on Acme’s products.

    “ACME: For fifty years, the leader in creative mayhem.”

    *goes and gets a sword and jumps into a pond*

    Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

    [...] inimicality is not a biconditional.

    Unrequited enmity?
    -

  315. consciousness razor says

    I can watch a musical performance, however, I prefer not to do so. I’d rather simply listen.

    Hmm. Watching is often distracting*, but I like knowing how the performance happens, whereas listening to a recording keeps me guessing about a lot of things, so I feel like I’ve probably missed something. That and the sound is usually better when you’re right there in front of the action.

    *Thus the need for repeated listening, and occasionally closing your eyes and zoning out so everyone thinks you’ve fallen asleep.

  316. Nutmeg says

    Cipher:

    I just can’t watch. I have to look away or cover my eyes and it’s better if there’s distance between me and them; people on stage, for instance.

    I know that I’m uncomfortable watching many types of strong emotion, and music can be similar. Maybe embarrassment squick, like MikeG said? I don’t think I’ve ever been really close to a performer, so I haven’t noticed if I have a reaction similar to yours.

  317. old man jenkins ॐ says

    It does bear kind of an emotional resemblance to someone being inside my personal space when I don’t want them to be.

    I have a problem like this with a lot of songs that have lyrics, unless they are absurd, senseless lyrics. But the worst is when it’s piped through speakers in a store. The storytelling becomes emotional pollution if I can’t turn it off. Emotive music without lyrics, not a problem for me.

  318. dianne says

    Nobody here who eats chicken actually refrains from consuming grain-fed chickens.

    Actually, I do. Therefore, my consumption of animals is minimal. But I still haven’t seen any actual statistics on the issue. (Partially threadrupt so apologies if I missed it.)

  319. Happiestsadist says

    @#409: You are aware that restaurants exist that serve things aside from chicken, yes?

  320. old man jenkins ॐ says

    Happiestsadist, I am aware that Dianne is not so stupid as you act, and she therefore is capable of grokking me.

  321. dianne says

    And finally, in Germany, at least one given name has to be unambiguously gendered. No idea why, but it’s an actual law. Many Turkish names are unisex.

    Anti-Turkish dog whistle?

  322. consciousness razor says

    Nobody here who eats chicken actually refrains from consuming grain-fed chickens.

    Actually, I do. Therefore, my consumption of animals is minimal.

    No, that does not follow. The fact that they’re grain-fed (assuming all of them are) says nothing about their quantity. You might eat lots and lots of grain-fed chickens, or rarely have a meal that doesn’t contain at least some kind of meat.

    Besides, minimal consumption of animals = consuming zero animals

  323. old man jenkins ॐ says

    Now who’s lying?

    You are lying, Alethea, since you didn’t write that shit, you don’t live by it,

    and since you haven’t admitted ,a href=”http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/06/01/episode-cccxxxiii-eyjafjallajokull/comment-page-2/#comment-353866″>your earlier lies.

    I am so fucking bored about how you make universal statements which are ludicrous over-generalisations,

    But again, I don’t do that. You are dishonest in trying to insist that I do.

    When we get the Sb comments back, I’ll be able to point to earlier discussions in which I’ve been explicit in saying that not everyone could do it at this time.

    What I’m generally careful to point out, time and time again, is that these conversations are taking place on certain blogs, with certain demographics of readers, people who generally could go vegan at this time. That’s quite a distance from your implication here, Alethea.

    pose false dichotomies,

    Not true.

    and then shift goalposts.

    You are a liar, Alethea. My position here has been consistent since my very first post on Pharyngula in 2008. You always want to act like I’m saying everybody on Earth can and therefore should go vegan tomorrow. You are a liar.

    BORED.

    You can fuck off any time you want.

  324. Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    @Rey Fox:

    Ooops. Sorry, from context I thought you would understand that I was asking what you cousin was studying at Willamette.

    Is that cousin doing a grad program? Law school? undergrad?

    I’m just curious. I don’t live that far from Willamette & I’ve guest lectured there, but it was a long time ago now. I’m sure your cousin wouldn’t have been there.

  325. Happiestsadist says

    Josh @ #323: Yeah, that is hilarious, in a secondhand embarrassment kind of way.

  326. old man jenkins ॐ says

    Now who’s lying?

    You are lying, Alethea, since you didn’t write that shit, you don’t live by it,

    and since you haven’t admitted your earlier lies.

    I am so fucking bored about how you make universal statements which are ludicrous over-generalisations,

    But again, I don’t do that. You are dishonest in trying to insist that I do.

    When we get the Sb comments back, I’ll be able to point to earlier discussions in which I’ve been explicit in saying that not everyone could do it at this time.

    What I’m generally careful to point out, time and time again, is that these conversations are taking place on certain blogs, with certain demographics of readers, people who generally could go vegan at this time. That’s quite a distance from your implication here, Alethea.

    pose false dichotomies,

    Not true.

    and then shift goalposts.

    You are a liar, Alethea. My position here has been consistent since my very first post on Pharyngula in 2008. You always want to act like I’m saying everybody on Earth can and therefore should go vegan tomorrow. You are a liar.

    BORED.

    You can fuck off any time you want.

  327. Katrina says

    I haven’t stopped by TET in a while, and was sorry to hear of your loss, Caine. The photo of The Boys brought me to tears.

    In other news, we lost Sasha-kitteh just before Memorial Day weekend. She died at home, in her sleep. Her last few days were spent outside in the sunshine, napping on the porch. She would have been 20 this coming October. The kids took it pretty hard but, being kids, have pretty much gotten over it. I still have my moments.

    I’m sure we’ll be getting more kittehs soon, but I want to have the carpets cleaned first. Sasha gave up trying to get all the way to the litter box before the end.

  328. old man jenkins ॐ says

    Meh, I eat only grass-fed beef and get my chicken from the Hutterites. I’m with Alethea.

    Then you’re doing what Giliell stipulated you shouldn’t be doing, by talking all “ethical better than thou”.

    (And of course no one believes that you never eat meat at restaurants.)

  329. Happiestsadist says

    You try so hard, and get nowhere, SGBM. You’re just a sad, lonely, bitter little authoritarian who gets what few jollies he can half-assing science and being an emotionally abusive bully here. You don’t make me angry with your ridiculous pseudosophy (which would be embarrassing in a maladjusted 15 year old boy), you just make me feel pity for you.

  330. says

    Nutmeg:

    Survived the bridal shower. If I ever get married, I’m not doing anything even remotely like that.

    Good call, they suck.

    If you get married, do what you want to do and don’t let anyone pressure you into doing otherwise. :)

    Janine:

    Now I am flashing back to the Sealab 2021 episode when Murphy is trapped under the cola machine and the cleaning robot is wearing a necklace made of his teeth that get knocked out bwhen the soda machine sends a can flying at Murphy’s face.

    Best. Episode. Ever!

  331. dianne says

    You don’t eat at restaurants?

    Yes. Furthermore, I live in the northeastern seaboard section of the US. I have a wide variety of politically correct restaurants available.

  332. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Dang, this diet bullshit again. *temporarily killfiles those discussing the issue due to terminal insipidity*

  333. Hekuni Cat, MQG says

    Katrina, I’m sorry for your loss. Losing a beloved kitteh is so very hard.

  334. Josh, Official SpokesKraftDinner says

    Katrina, I’m very sorry to hear about kitteh.

  335. Josh, Official SpokesKraftDinner says

    Yes. Furthermore, I live in the northeastern seaboard section of the US. I have a wide variety of politically correct restaurants available.

    So you live in Lower Canadiastan, just like me!

  336. old man jenkins ॐ says

    Happiestsadist, correction: I am not lonely. I have a good network of people I can rely on.

    Your attempt to hurt me on that sort of note reveals that you are much more of a bully than I am.

    I do know that there are some people who don’t have someone they can rely on at this time in their life, and I would never, never try to hurt someone in that way.

  337. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Dang Katrina, my sympathies to you and your family.

  338. Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    Katrina, please accept my sympathies.

  339. Janine: History’s Greatest Monster says

    Come on, Benjy, Daddy needs his happy juice.

    If a cartoon made of random associations can be called genius, it is that episode.

    Mango Reinhardt, the thinking man’s cola.

    That line kills me.

  340. old man jenkins ॐ says

    I have a wide variety of politically correct restaurants available.

    That’s laughable, Dianne.

  341. Happiestsadist says

    Josh, the GrotheBot meme is a thing of wonder.

    Also, The Mr. and I went out for dinner tonight, and though our target restaurant was closed, the place we ended up trying for the first time ever was holyshitamazing. I had the most amazing seitan with lots of amazing veggies and mango salsa and a perfect beer. Expensive, moreso than we planned, but the portions were colossal and damn, that was amazing.

  342. Josh, Official SpokesKraftDinner says

    Yes! Thank you Cipher. HAPI QUOTIENT INCREASING.

  343. The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa) says

    As I said earlier, I’m strongly against diet policing.

    On top of that:

    What I’m generally careful to point out, time and time again, is that these conversations are taking place on certain blogs, with certain demographics of readers, people who generally could go vegan at this time.

    So what? I’m an omnivore with strongly carnivorous leanings. This is the point where I say GFY.

    Go Fuck Yourself.

  344. Happiestsadist says

    That was definitely one of the best thwarted-original-plan whims we’ve had in a while. Always nice to find new places, and this one was not only vegetarian, but had tons of Mr.-friendly (cow milk free) stuff.

    I now continue to try to figure out who all the people are in the sideshow group photo he got me. I have about half figured out.

  345. Cipher, OM, MQ says

    My killfile works again!
    This is not a veiled announcement that I’m killfiling anyone in this thread. I’m just proud of myself that I fixed it. Although the fix was so painfully obvious that I shouldn’t really be proud of myself.
    (Did you know that Greasemonkey has a little checkmark next to the word “Enabled” when it’s enabled? The fact that it says “Enabled” doesn’t mean it is. …I KNOW THAT NOW)

  346. Happiestsadist says

    TLC @ #444: Cosigned. Nobody here, generally, is unaware of the benefits and downsides of a herbivorous diet. Those who haven’t have good fucking reasons for their choice, just as the veg*ans here do. Are you their doctor? No? STFU and STFD with the helpful “advice”.

    Diet policing is fucking inane whether it’s based on animal rights, fatphobia, or being just a regular busybody asshole.

  347. old man jenkins ॐ says

    As I said earlier, I’m strongly against diet policing.

    And as you’ve also demonstrated, Coyote, you’re pro-trolling.

    Giliell made a claim about facts. I responded to that claim. That’s all that’s happened here. You respond to me, and then I respond to you. You can’t honestly claim that I’m “diet policing” when I’m responding first to claims about facts and then responding to comments directed to me.

    So what? I’m an omnivore with strongly carnivorous leanings. This is the point where I say GFY.

    There is something seriously wrong with the way you interact with other people, Coyote, if you think that other people should be able to make claims about facts but I shouldn’t be able to respond.

    I think you need to understand that other people are allowed to share in public spaces. You don’t have to agree with what’s being said. But people you disagree with are allowed to say things.

  348. Happiestsadist says

    You can respond all you like, dude, but other people can respond to you as well. Perhaps take your own point at #449? Because when you make inane comments about how everyone can go vegan, that’s fucking stupid.

  349. old man jenkins ॐ says

    TLC @ #444: Cosigned. Nobody here, generally, is unaware of the benefits and downsides of a herbivorous diet. Those who haven’t have good fucking reasons for their choice, just as the veg*ans here do. Are you their doctor? No? STFU and STFD with the helpful “advice”.

    Diet policing is fucking inane whether it’s based on animal rights, fatphobia, or being just a regular busybody asshole.

    Giliell made a claim about facts. I responded to that claim. That’s all that’s happened here. You respond to me, and then I respond to you. You can’t honestly claim that I’m “diet policing” when I’m responding first to claims about facts and then responding to comments directed to me.

    +++++
    But in your case, Happiestsadist, it’s unlikely that you are capable of seeing how badly fucked up your behavior is,

    if you’re not even able to acknowledge that it’s uncontroversially bullying to try to hurt someone with “lol you have no friends” rubbish.

    I must admit, that surprised me. I’m simultaneously proud and appalled that you really are a worse person than me, just as I suspected.

  350. says

    You never eat the meat of any nonhuman animal fed by grain. Or any products from grain-fed animals – milk, cream, cheese, sour cream, butter, whey, eggs,… Even at restaurants or friends’ houses. You’re totally positive about this. Hell, you’re almost like a vegan (except for your narrow focus). But not all preachy and ethical and shit.

    You’re the most interesting anti-ethical-eating person in the world….

  351. says

    Mostly threadrupt

    Back from honeymoon, grueling drive and got back just in time to load up the car again and go to pride. Huzzah! The likely hood of any ceremony or Honeymoon pictures showing up anywhere is currently unknown (though I do have some decent amateur vid of sea turtles eating :-p )

    @Caine: Sympathy for pet loss :(

    @Talk about inefficient foods, someone mentioned using goats or rabbits to which I laugh; PSHAW! To get really efficient results you have to start move agribusiness away from vertebrates all together and start promoting invertebrates! I think we can get Americans to embrace it if we market locusts as “land prawns”

    @SGBM: Looking at it from a consequence POV, I’ve decided the best move is to stay out of the discussion about you regardless of any personal feelings. Nothing else to add, I just thought you might be tickled by that not-irony :-p

    Pride was fun…save for an awful Lady Gaga impersonator who scared our dogs

  352. old man jenkins ॐ says

    You can respond all you like, dude, but other people can respond to you as well.

    Of course. But it’s trolling to claim that there’s something wrong with me responding to claims of facts and then responding to comments which are directed to me.

    I never said nobody should respond. What I said is it’s trolling to insist that I’m “diet policing” if I respond to claims about facts and then continue responding to statements directed at me.

    Because when you make inane comments about how everyone can go vegan, that’s fucking stupid.

    It’s stupid for you to lie about what I said when it’s right there a couple comments above.

    I quote: “people who generally could go vegan at this time.”

  353. Happiestsadist says

    Dude, your projection is almost as pathetic as your posturing. And this “nuh-uh, you’re the bully!” tactic when called out on your more or less constant bully and wankery toward others is a hallmark of an abuser, as has been pointed out here.

    Also, I love that you think the worst insult you can come up with for me is that I’m like you. Makes your defences kinda sad.

    As far as my comment to TLC, it was sparked by your insistence on veganism for all, however, as should be incredibly obvious by my referencing other types of diet-policing. You think every song is about you, don’t you?

  354. says

    I quote: “people who generally could go vegan at this time.”

    Going to hate myself for this, but SGBM because your stated consequentalism interests me I have to ask, have you thought of the issue beyond just physical or economic limitations on going vegan? How do cultural or psychological limitations play into that.

  355. old man jenkins ॐ says

    Ing, well I appreciate that, for whatever reason it comes about. I enjoy the conversations you and I have with each other, but yeah, talking about people is stressful.

  356. Josh, Official SpokesKraftDinner says

    Well if it weren’t already this thread is gonna turn into one giant shit-show now. I’ll be in my box huddled behind the packet of cheese powder.

  357. Cipher, OM, MQ says

    Well if it weren’t already this thread is gonna turn into one giant shit-show now. I’ll be in my box huddled behind the packet of cheese powder.

    Here is a tangent because you said you would be in your box:
    I want a refrigerator box. When I get my own apartment someday, I want to put a refrigerator box in it, and make a nest.

  358. Happiestsadist says

    Can I join you, Josh? There’s never anything new in this particular type of shitshow and it was beaten to death ages ago.

    Dammit, at this rate, I’m going to have to go to bed or something.

  359. Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    @Ing:

    Yay for honeymoons.

    It’s a bummer to be back, no?

    Ms Crip Dyke & I had a month together, 1/2 with her on vacation in my town while I worked and 1/2 while in her town with her working, me (mostly) on vacation (I had a couple lectures to give). Leaving at the end was darn hard.

    –)->

  360. Josh, Official SpokesKraftDinner says

    I’ll make room for y’all . . .just lemme burrow under some macaroni for a minute.

    Cipher, I don’t blame you. There is something comforting about having a hidey-hole. I used to lovelovelovelove refrigerator boxes as a kid. I’d make a secret cave, or my mom would help me make it into a house by cutting window panes and making a peaked roof. Best toy ever, better than anything I got from the store.

  361. Happiestsadist says

    Cipher @ #459: I too want a nest. Blanket forts are also fun as an adult. But yes, as a claustrophile, a nice, enclosed nest would be perfect.

    I also fall asleep in MRIs.

  362. Cipher, OM, MQ says

    Mike and Nutmeg, yeah, I definitely do think that has something to do with it. There’s also a control issue going on that I’m increasingly sure of, because it doesn’t only happen when the person is noticeably emotional – I feel vulnerable and like I will lose myself (I actually have a strong fear that I will cease to exist, which I acknowledge doesn’t make any sense).

    SGBM, about the lyrics, that’s actually really interesting. I have no idea what it means, but it’s interesting :)

  363. Cipher, OM, MQ says

    Cipher, I don’t blame you. There is something comforting about having a hidey-hole. I used to lovelovelovelove refrigerator boxes as a kid. I’d make a secret cave, or my mom would help me make it into a house by cutting window panes and making a peaked roof. Best toy ever, better than anything I got from the store.

    Hehehe. Yep.

    Cipher @ #459: I too want a nest. Blanket forts are also fun as an adult. But yes, as a claustrophile, a nice, enclosed nest would be perfect.

    I also fall asleep in MRIs.

    Huh! I doubt I’d be able to do the last bit since they’re loud, but “claustrophile” is a good word for what I am. I also have an easier time sleeping if I am able to press against a wall, and at minimum I must have a heavy comforter (which makes sleeping really difficult when it’s very hot).

  364. old man jenkins ॐ says

    Happiestsadist, you really are incapable of acknowledging that it’s fucked up to try to hurt people, if they are lonely, for being lonely?

    You seriously don’t realize that’s fucked up? You’re going to double down on that?

    And this “nuh-uh, you’re the bully!” tactic when called out on your more or less constant bully and wankery toward others

    Clearly what I said was that you’re more of a bully than me. I don’t think I’m well placed to decide whether I’m a bully or not; it’s debateable.

    But what’s clear is that you are trying to hurt me in a way that I would never try to hurt anyone. I would never try to make someone feel bad about being lonely. I’m lucky that I’m not lonely, so I just find that behavior from you appalling. If I were lonely, I imagine it would be extremely hurtful.

    You’re really shameless, aren’t you.

    is a hallmark of an abuser, as has been pointed out here.

    I understand how my words could be triggering to you, and I’m not going to deny your experience,

    but the factual claims here are based upon a false assumption of intimacy. I’m not betraying you, because there is no trust between us.

    Again, I understand how you make the conflation and I’m not denying that my words could be triggering. But that said, this reply goes to you as well.

  365. Happiestsadist says

    I hear you about the comforter thing. I don’t understand how people can sleep without that sort of pressure. I wish there was such a thing as non-warm comforters for the summertime. I like having a pillow one the side of me.

  366. says

  367. Josh, Official SpokesKraftDinner says

    YES to the sleeping under the pressure of heavy quilts. I need that too. I also can’t standbeing the slightest bit too hot when I sleep. So I will crank up the air conditioner in my room to morgue temperature and pile on the blankets. Most people find this perverse, but it’s really the only way I can sleep comfortably if the outside temperature is above 60 degrees F. I’ve been known to leave the window cracked in the dead of New England winter. It’s not that I want to be cold, it’s that it’s too easy to get too hot.

  368. Happiestsadist says

    Josh at #472: That, as far as I’m concerned, is the very best way to sleep. A cold room and 20 pounds of blankets.

  369. old man jenkins ॐ says

    I’m going to guess that this is also the crux of why people feel so strongly one way or another about how you frame conversations.

    Ing, if you could show me an example of where I’m talking about someone who isn’t already talking about me, I’d appreciate the pointer.

    I really do think that people should be treated as people — no matter how much I dislike any individual — instead of as problems. I try to do this by addressing people rather than talking past them and about them. Even bad people are subjects, not objects.

    So if you see me doing otherwise, I’d appreciate it if you let me know.

    How do cultural or psychological limitations play into that.

    Well obviously animal-rights folk are trying to change cultures. Every activist of every kind is trying to change cultures. So it’s no more an issue than it is for any other kind of activism.

    Psychological limitations, I think it’s an unusual and rare hypothetical, but if there are some individuals who for some psychological reason have a much higher barrier, then at such time as mosst of the culture is vegan we should have the resources to give them whatever support they desire.

  370. MissEla says

    Three words: electric mattress pad.

    (Even more awesome if you pair it with a down comforter–warmth from below being reflected back to you by the down on top. Sooooo nice!)

  371. Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    Two words:

    Naked snuggling.

  372. cicely. Just cicely. says

    *manyhugs* and much sympathy for Caine. Sorry to hear about Chas. I’m glad that at least it was quiet and quick.

    And *hugs* and sympathy for Crip Dyke, too. Memory has its downsides. :(

    *hug* and *courage* for Katherine.

    WHAAAAAT? *organizes angry mob and hands out pitchforks*

    I’ve got the sausage-inna-bun situation covered; who’s on the torches?

    I’m a bit too used to not mattering to people.

    What?!? But you do matter! *hugs&chocolate*

    I like my toenails in a silvery-pearl polish.

    Rey, I agree with Caine, upThread a bit: “Hells no! That’s a great opportunity. You’ll be brilliant.”

    Then again, there is a little part of me that knows it would be different if we were in meatspace — I’d be the outsider there.

    *pounce* *hug* Please come to Rhinebeck and/or Skepticon.

    Especially Skepticon!
    -

  373. Josh, Official SpokesKraftDinner says

    Naked snuggling.

    Blech. Horror nightmare for sleeping.

    Don’t get me wrong. I like secks and I like teh cuddlez. But when I’m ready to go to sleep get the fuck up off me and get out of my bed.

  374. consciousness razor says

    But not all preachy and ethical and shit.

    Heh. That would be terrible, wouldn’t it? I mean, not really more terrible than anything else, or at least not so much that we ought to talk to anyone about it.

    You’re the most interesting anti-ethical-eating person in the world….

    8| Depends on what interests you, I guess. (sarcasm)

    Not to stray too far off from discussing the discussion of how the discussion is going, but I figure the “grass-fed”/”grain-fed” labels could be a bit misleading, aren’t they? Are there any livestock which are only fed grasses or in pastures or whatever? Or don’t they rely on a lot of feed grains as well (just not as much, or not entirely, as some grain-fed livestock)?

  375. says

    Ing, if you could show me an example of where I’m talking about someone who isn’t already talking about me, I’d appreciate the pointer.

    I really do think that people should be treated as people — no matter how much I dislike any individual — instead of as problems. I try to do this by addressing people rather than talking past them and about them. Even bad people are subjects, not objects.

    So if you see me doing otherwise, I’d appreciate it if you let me know.

    I don’t understand how this is a appropriate or reasonable response to what I said. I said that people are reacting strongly because you may frame the discussion as about them rather than about a subject.

  376. says

    Not to stray too far off from discussing the discussion of how the discussion is going, but I figure the “grass-fed”/”grain-fed” labels could be a bit misleading, aren’t they?

    Why, yes. Yes, they could.

  377. Menyambal --- Sambal's sockpuppet says

    Heavy blankets creep me out. When I was a kid, sleeping in the upper floor of an old farmhouse, we had some old “comforters” that were several inches thick, with no airspace in them at all—they were just layers of plain cloth, with another layer stuck on when the outer layer got greasy. I could not pick them up—I couldn’t even drag them up onto the bed without losing my grip. They were just heavy and cold and slick and dirty.

    I do like a cold room, though, with lots of snuggly blankets. I just put a set of flannel sheets on my bed (with polar bear print—found at a garage sale) and almost always prefer flannel sheets.

    I remember as an adult realizing that I didn’t have to keep the upper sheet tucked in and stretched out. Cuddled up in flannel is comfortable to me, now.

    In summer, I’ll sleep with nothing over me at all, (or on me), if I can, but that took a while to get used to, also. Being too hot to sleep is awful.

    I do need a headboard on my beds, though. I tend to crawl up toward the head, and will work my way up and out of a sleeping bag, say. Maybe I am just trying to keep the pillows mashed up high enough to support my head.

  378. Cipher, OM, MQ says

    Do you want to?

    It’d be nice if you explained, yes. And I did go to the site and click around, but it didn’t shed light on that.

  379. old man jenkins ॐ says

    I don’t understand how this is a appropriate or reasonable response to what I said. I said that people are reacting strongly because you may frame the discussion as about them rather than about a subject.

    Ing, okay, I must have misunderstood you.

    Yeah, I’ll say to somebody “what you are doing is harmful and you should stop.” If I’m addressing that person, then I’m treating them as a subject, not an object.

  380. ibyea says

    @SC
    Cipher has a point. I don’t understand what that has to do with what he said. He was talking about blankets and stuff.

  381. Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    Josh:

    If I had a million dollars we wouldn’t have to walk to the store
    If I had a million dollars we’d take a limousine ’cause it costs more
    If I had a million dollars we wouldn’t have to eat Kraft dinner
    “But we would eat Kraft dinner.”
    “Of course we would, we’d just eat more.”
    “And buy really expensive ketchups with it.”
    “That’s right, all the fanciest Dijon ketchups.”

    As SpokesKraftDinner, I’m quite interested in asking you your official position on BareNakedLadies.

  382. Menyambal --- Sambal's sockpuppet says

    I understand that cows aren’t really able to digest grain properly—their internals are set for grass. I wonder how that affects their methane output, and if that is relevant to the greenhouse gas issue. (I’ll go learn something … )

  383. says

    Sorry – that wasn’t really an answer.

    It was a conversation at least in part about the ethics of eating and factory farming. Several people – including, IIRC, some of those expressing disdain for the whole idea of ethically refusing to consume the products of the factory farming system – started talking and commiserating about getting refuge from the conversation by “nesting” behaviors. I might be alone in this, but when I think of nesting and burrowing and the like it brings to mind my connections to other animals, and the natural behaviors of some of the animals that are prevented by the vicious factory-farming system, as described by JSF in the book at my link.

  384. Happiestsadist says

    Ahh, I sort of thought that was what you were getting at, but it seemed rather a stretch. Seeing as I used the term to refer to a small, enclosed space being desirable for sensory reasons, in agreement with Cipher. Whose initial comment seemed less a refuge-related comment, and more of a tangent based on childhood nostalgia. Though really, getting refuge from boring, whiny AR people repeating the same things that come up every time the subject is raised is also a worthwhile venture.

    So, is that hobby-horse free-range?

  385. Cipher, OM, MQ says

    Sorry again. Yeah – you’d need to read the actual book.

    Yeah, I could tell that might have been what was going on. I think the site is actually broken a little bit? When I clicked on the main screen it seems to have taken me to a 404.

  386. Happiestsadist says

    Unless, of course, you’re free-associating back to animal rights with the “nesting” thing.

  387. old man jenkins ॐ says

    Ahh, I sort of thought that was what you were getting at, but it seemed rather a stretch. Seeing as I used the term to refer to a small, enclosed space being desirable for sensory reasons,

    Why do you think it’s something else for the animals who use such?