Why I am an atheist – bob »« I guess she really doesn’t like evolution

JohntheOther is even worse than I thought

That weirdo, JohntheOther, has been busy making more of his boring talking head videos lately — I haven’t watched them, even the one addressed to me, because I just find them so godawful tedious — but apparently they’re nothing but strings of notpologies, in which he apologizes for getting the details wrong and calling Rebecca Watson a sociopath, but he still thinks Rebecca Watson is a sociopath. Then I learned on Manboobz that JohntheOther was notorious for another video he made. This one is riveting.

JohntheOther, the guy who flew into righteous indignation because Watson pretended to send her assistant on a scavenger hunt, who wondered what happens when “when people lack an ethical compass”, who put up a false front of pious concern for the atheist community and its dysfunctional sociopathy, is the same JohntheOther who declared that he would never help a rape victim. He would just walk on by.

Trigger warning: he describes in detail a time when he was in his 20s and he interrupted a rape and beat up the attacker thoroughly. Good for him, although he seems mostly upset that the victim didn’t want to be touched by him afterwards and was afraid, and that he was at risk of being accused of being the rapist (he wasn’t accused), and that he’d never do that again and would let the rape proceed if he were in that situation again.

What’s also weird is that he describes a park that was notorious for its danger to women, and that he witnessed a rape in progress, yet he’s still fixated on this notion that women falsely accuse men of rape.

Hear that, feminists? John Hembling wouldn’t lift a finger to help a rape victim anymore, and it’s all your fault. Because you’re all sociopaths.

Comments

  1. varys says

    Every time I see a post about this I usually skip it because it seems like petty pointless bickering.

  2. Beatrice, anormalement indécente says

    Ok, I listened to him.
    I don’t even know what to say. That man is a peace of scum.

  3. huntstoddard says

    And besides, this guy has no ideas. It’s obvious he’s the incarnation of a brain turd. We might as well go right for appearance.

  4. says

    huntstoddard:

    We might as well go right for appearance.

    We will do no such thing. You might want to seriously consider either confining yourself to JH’s ideas/words/actions or shutting the fuck up. We don’t focus on or insult based on appearance here.

  5. Beatrice, anormalement indécente says

    Every time I see a post about this I usually skip it because it seems like petty pointless bickering.

    You are welcome to skip it again, preferably without comment.

  6. carlie says

    I don’t see why we can’t do both

    Because that creates collateral damage out of everyone else in the world who shares those features of appearance, that’s why.

  7. says

    although he seems mostly upset that the victim didn’t want to be touched by him afterwards and was afraid, and that he was at risk of being accused of being the rapist (he wasn’t accused)

    I have to wonder just what he was expecting here. It seems like he had a White Knight fantasy in his head and didn’t care for the reality of the situation.

    After my rape, I was rushed to the hospital and I didn’t even want the ambulance crew touching me. That’s pretty normal in such cases.

  8. huntstoddard says

    “Because that creates collateral damage out of everyone else in the world who shares those features of appearance, that’s why.”

    (chews on carrot) mmmmhhm. Ya gotta point der, doc.

    Okay, you can focus on John’s “ideas” (rolls eyes), and I’ll handle the insults, deal?

  9. says

    @hunts:

    Basically exactly what Carlie said.

    Attacking appearance creates a situation where you’re, in truth, hurting people other than the person you’re trying to criticize. Let’s go with Ann Coulter and the inevitable “she looks like a man” type arguments for something that hits me close to home.

    Ann Coulter is a horrible, vile human being. Her ideas, her words, her actions are atrocious. She’s an evil, hateful woman. This is enough. When someone then lumps in “oh, and she looks like a man” that collaterally hurts transwomen as well as women who look less feminine than the ridiculous standard that women are held to.

    Making fun of this man’s teeth draws the line past “he has bad ideas” to “he looks silly” which inevitably draws criticism towards people with the same sort of teeth.

    So basically, criticize his ideas or fuck right out of here.

  10. says

    Huntstoddard: do you really want to make this thread all about you, rather than the misogynist asshole in the video? Because that’s what you’re doing. It’s not a smart choice.

  11. huntstoddard says

    No, until PZ tells me to leave I’m staying right here and pointing out this man’s rodent teeth. Just look at them!

  12. says

    In a way, I can sort of understand the feelings behind his stupid attitude: he did the chivalrous thing, at considerable risk to himself, to stop a brutal attack on an innocent person, as he had probably been taught a man should do (for which he does deserve recognition); but the woman didn’t show the appreciation of his manly deed as he had probably been taught to expect; and that made him very confused and frustrated, because he did what he’d been taught to do and didn’t get the response he was taught he could fairly expect. I’d be horribly frustrated too, if I had done the same thing and got the response he got.

    But now he’s being ridiculously immature, at best. He really needs to step outside of his own hurt feelings, take a longer view, and understand that protecting the innocent is a lot more complex and frustrating than cop shows and Westerns make it look.

  13. carlie says

    Plus, it minimizes the things that should actually be criticized in favor of attributes that the person has no control (and therefore no responsibility) over.

    Using Katherine’s example, every “she looks like a man” lobbed at Ann Coulter is a lost opportunity to skewer the statements she makes that are completely detrimental to society and show how awful she really is. In fact, it can do the opposite and cause people to defend her on behalf of others who share that attribute (Hey, my mom looks like a man too! Stop picking on her!) And it opens you up to charges that you’re making mean unfair insults, and you don’t have any defense against that because you are, and then they can dismiss everything else you have to say on the subject. Regardless of whether you agree with the concepts of societal norms and prejudices and ways in which language works, criticizing someone’s appearance is strategically a bad move if the goal is to show how terrible a person is.

  14. says

    Every time I see a post about this I usually skip it because it seems like petty pointless bickering.

    So you go out of your way to join the conversation, just to say you’re skipping it because it’s pointless? Skipping a post: you’re doing it wrong.

  15. carlie says

    And missed the big red hint cue to redirect back to OP.

    I couldn’t stand to watch the whole thing, but came in near the end for “When it comes to rape, emotionally, I no longer care because I have been subject to your endless torrent of accusation”

    Wow.

    Rape victims don’t have any problems that are anything like youtube commenters accusing him of being an asshole, so he has no sympathy for them, is that what he’s saying? I wouldn’t want to be anywhere near him at any time, ever.

  16. says

    Raging Bee:

    In a way, I can sort of understand the feelings behind his stupid attitude: he did the chivalrous thing, at considerable risk to himself, to stop a brutal attack on an innocent person, as he had probably been taught a man should do (for which he does deserve recognition); but the woman didn’t show the appreciation of his manly deed as he had probably been taught to expect; and that made him very confused and frustrated, because he did what he’d been taught to do and didn’t get the response he was taught he could fairly expect. I’d be horribly frustrated too, if I had done the same thing and got the response he got.

    It’s difficult for me to express just how much this attitude disturbs me. “Chivalrous thing”? Uh…no. That’s not helping, not with JH, not with you. This should not have anything to do with chivalry or any other weird form of White Knight fantasy. When you see another person in trouble, you should help because it’s the right thing to do, full stop.

    As for not getting the “proper response”? This shows a high level of living in fantasy land rather than being at all reality based. I’ll speak to my own experience – I was a bit too close to dead to spill out thank yous all over the place, I was completely immersed in adrenaline-soaked survival mode, I did not want anyone near me, let alone touching me and yes, that included the people trying to save my life. The months I was in the hospital, that didn’t change. I cringed every single time anyone touched me, I hated it.

    It really doesn’t take more than a moment or two to think about how you’d feel if you were the person being assaulted, rather than getting frustrated and steamed up because you weren’t hailed as the almighty hero.

  17. Ogvorbis: shameless AND impudent! says

    Every time I see a post about this I usually skip it because it seems like petty pointless bickering.

    Yeah. I see what you mean. Discussing, debating, and even arguing about human rights for about half of humanity is pointless.

    I don’t see why we can’t do both

    For a couple of reasons. First, if you insult both his ideas and his looks, it opens you, and, by extension, this blog, up to accusations of abuse. There are many who will ignore the discussion about the idea and latch onto the discussion of his looks. Second, what does it matter what someone looks like? It has nothing to do with the validity of the ideas being expressed.

    Okay, you can focus on John’s “ideas” (rolls eyes), and I’ll handle the insults, deal?

    No.

    ———–

    People like this scare me.

    The park is notorious as being ‘dangerous for women’. What does he do to make it safer? Or, for that matter, why was John walking through the park? I have an evil mind that goes places I don’t want.

  18. says

    In a way, I can sort of understand the feelings behind his stupid attitude: he did the chivalrous thing, at considerable risk to himself, to stop a brutal attack on an innocent person, as he had probably been taught a man should do (for which he does deserve recognition); but the woman didn’t show the appreciation of his manly deed as he had probably been taught to expect; and that made him very confused and frustrated, because he did what he’d been taught to do and didn’t get the response he was taught he could fairly expect. I’d be horribly frustrated too, if I had done the same thing and got the response he got.

    So you’re Captain Hammer?

    I mean the people or helping them doesn’t matter, just that they adore you for it right?

  19. Moggie says

    Raging Bee:

    In a way, I can sort of understand the feelings behind his stupid attitude: he did the chivalrous thing, at considerable risk to himself, to stop a brutal attack on an innocent person, as he had probably been taught a man should do (for which he does deserve recognition); but the woman didn’t show the appreciation of his manly deed as he had probably been taught to expect; and that made him very confused and frustrated, because he did what he’d been taught to do and didn’t get the response he was taught he could fairly expect. I’d be horribly frustrated too, if I had done the same thing and got the response he got.

    Expecting to be rewarded for doing the right thing? How very… religious.

  20. says

    Caine: I’m not taking his side, by any stretch; I’m merely trying to explain where I think his attitude comes from. When I say his feelings are “understandable,” I mean “understandable” as a short-term emotional reaction in the immediate aftermath of what had just happened. He is, of course, dead wrong to extend his short-term emotional reaction into a long-term opinion of women in general, or rape-victims in general.

    Also, if my use of the word “chivalrous” disturbs you, just substitute the word “right” in its place; as in “what he understood was the right thing for a man to do.” I use the word “chivalrous” to mean “the received ideal of manly behavior toward women in need.”

  21. noastronomer says

    Quite frankly if JohntheOther can present any evidence, other than his own vivid imagination, that he ever intervened to stop a rape in progress I’ll eat my underwear. His rambling story is nothing but a teenage male fantasy. Yes I know he says he was 22 or 23 (what? he doesn’t remember) but it’s still a teenage fantasy.

  22. scorpy1 says

    Raging Bee,

    It’s not the use of a word that is bothersome, it’s the attitude that “right” and “chivalrous” actions deserve a reward. It actually degrades the positive nature of the action as something “you’re just supposed to do” rather than something you do out of an ingrained desire.

    Some of us do the right thing because it’s the right thing to do, not because we were told it’s the right thing to do….morality and chivalry mean jack shit if it doesn’t come from a unencumbered desire to actually help.

    So, maybe you can see the parallel between opposition to this ass and opposition to morality codifying religionists (ie, yes, this is something worth discussing)?

  23. says

    Every time I see a post about this I usually skip it because it seems like petty pointless bickering.

    When you see a post about how some dude wouldn’t stop a rape if he saw one, you think it’s petty bickering? Well, at least you took the time to let us all know what a waste of neurons you are. It’s useful to know these things.

  24. A. R says

    I wonder if he would act like this if he were speaking to PZ and Rebecca in person.

  25. Koshka says

    Raging Bee,
    Your substitution for the word chivalrous makes it no less a stupid concept.

    And his short term emotional needs are of no real value next to someone who has just been raped.

    I understand you are saying you are not trying to defend him, but you come across as doing this on a significant level.

  26. simbri says

    I can understand a kneejerk hostile reaction to some of the feminist writing in the skeptic community. For many this will be the first they come across, and it was not what they came for. I had some similar feelings studying feminism at university. Nobody likes being told something that is uncomfortable to hear, especially if someone is saying that you (who in your head are one of the good guys) might be part of the problem.

    Like I said, an initial defensiveness/hostility is natural IMO. But that only lasts until you’ve had time to reflect on what the other person is saying. This is why when arguing with someone on religion/other woo I don’t try and win the argument then and there, because you don’t change someone’s mind in a heated discussion, just entrenchment and increasing anger.

    He seems to have got stuck in the rage stage, which is quite sad really. And whatever his argument, the conclusion he draws (not to assist a rape victim) is despicable beyond words. I’d like to think it’s not true, that it’s like a stupid thing said in the heat of the moment by a lover in an argument, but the following suggests otherwise – he i)thought about it/scripted it; ii)filmed it; iii) reviewed it; iv) uploaded it; v) didn’t remove it and try and erase all trace. Scary. A normal thought process cannot have decided this was a good idea.

  27. says

    Raging Bee:

    Also, if my use of the word “chivalrous” disturbs you, just substitute the word “right” in its place; as in “what he understood was the right thing for a man to do.” I use the word “chivalrous” to mean “the received ideal of manly behavior toward women in need.”

    *Aauuugh* Okay, now I’m getting frustrated. (Partly kidding.) You cannot substitute right for chivalrous. They aren’t the same thing. At least, not anymore. Chivalrous goes hand in armored glove with Almighty Hero White Knight crap. It also seems to be fueling this “right thing for a man to do” nonsense.

    This sort of thing:

    “the received ideal of manly behavior toward women in need.”

    needs to die. Die, die, die. Do you see, at all, how much this sort of shit twists and warps reality and makes everything worse?

    If someone does not have it in them to help a person who is in a bad situation, then don’t. Scream or tell someone else to help or call the cops. That’s a million times better than rushing in to do the “manly thing”. Trust me, that ain’t helping. When someone starts with that attitude, they end up with an attitude like JH’s – one of “I’ll never help anyone a bitch again.

    I am grateful to all the people who did help me and did the real heroics in the hospital, however, I never did drip sentimental womanly thanks over any one of them. I wouldn’t do that sort of thing in the first place, and I wasn’t capable of it at the time anyway*. People who are reality based grok that – that’s what you don’t seem to understand and I know JH doesn’t get it at all. You’re both making excuses for having a complete lack of empathy and compassion because there was no immediate reward for being a brave hero.

    *Yes, I did thank people, I simply didn’t behave as though they were all superheroes.

  28. zmidponk says

    You know, at the start of the video, where he says he is ‘numbed’ by the constant fake claims of rape, and how all men are rapists by the ‘Youtube feminists’, I can understand that – providing, of course, it’s true. However, without knowing what, precisely, they said, I can’t be sure whether it’s true (I rather suspect, however, it’s actually not).

    Then he goes on and says that a man stopping a rape in progress is only a ‘real man’ by the definition of the ‘Youtube feminists’. If a few jibes by a few ‘feminists’ make it seem OK to ignore someone being attacked in this manner, or as he put it, make it so ‘you don’t give a fuck about real rape victims’, then you didn’t give much of a fuck to begin with – which makes this guy a pure, unmitigated scumbag, despite his story about stopping a rape in progress about 20 years ago.

  29. says

    scorpy1: I said his actions (if, in fact, he really did what he says he did, which is not certain) deserve recognition, not reward. (Although I do believe that right actions should be rewarded, and a just society would reward them in some way or other, whether or not one does them just to get a reward.)

    I understand you are saying you are not trying to defend him, but you come across as doing this on a significant level.

    Only to someone whose emotions are degrading his/her reading comprehension.

  30. says

    Zmidponk:

    how all men are rapists by the ‘Youtube feminists’, I can understand that – providing, of course, it’s true.

    A whole lot of MRAs are convinced that all feminists think all men are rapists because they simply cannot wrap their heads around a concept like Schroedinger’s Rapist. To them, this is just women screaming “all men are rapists!!1!”, when it’s an attempt to explain the awareness and fear that many women need to deal with every day of their lives.

  31. says

    Raging Bee:

    Only to someone whose emotions are degrading his/her reading comprehension.

    Okay, now you can fuck off. You can even have this nicely decaying quill pig to assist you in fucking off. Koshka is right about how you’re coming off.

  32. A. R says

    Caine: Agreed. Schroedinger’s Rapist is a concept that MRAs can never quite separate from “all teh menzz are rapists!!!!” I even had a had time with it at first. It’s very real though, and it even applies to a lesser extent to other groups who fear violent attack. Physicians who preform abortions for example, sometimes have a similar mentality.

  33. says

    Jesus fucking Christ, Caine, what part of “received ideal” do you not understand? I didn’t say the ideal was RIGHT, I said it was RECEIVED. As in (assuming he’s not just lying, of course) he received certain ideas of what a man should to in a certain situation, and he acted accordingly in that situation.

    If someone does not have it in them to help a person who is in a bad situation, then don’t. Scream or tell someone else to help or call the cops. That’s a million times better than rushing in to do the “manly thing”.

    Yes, yes, I fully understand there’s tactical complexities here, and I never said otherwise. Try to attack me for what I said, not for what I never came close to saying, okay? (Besides, the problem here is not that he did the wrong thing and made things worse; it’s that he’s too self-absorbed and immature to understand why he didn’t get the immediate gratitude he’d beenled to expect.)

  34. carlie says

    I get what Raging Bee is doing, and I can see both the benefit and the harm in pointing out what is probably his mindset.

    On the one hand, it’s useful to figure out where those attitudes come from, so that it’s easier to attack them at the source.

    On the other, though, I think that’s something that’s ingrained in society enough that generally people know where attitudes like this come from, so pointing it out isn’t a useful exercise; we’re at the point now where it makes more sense to just attack it on all fronts. So Bee’s approach could be useful in a situation where the majority of people in the discussion aren’t sure where stuff like this comes from, but in this particular discussion most of the commenters are already way past the intro material and ready to just straight out say no, that shit doesn’t fly.

  35. says

    Raging Bee:

    Try to attack me for what I said

    I’m not attacking you at all, nor are people in this thread who are pointing out how you’re coming across “emotionally overwhelmed”. People, including myself, have been addressing what you said.

    You’re being an ass in what you’ve been saying, try to understand that.

  36. says

    A.R:

    I even had a had time with it at first.

    That’s not surprising. It’s a shocking read for a lot of men, who have never had to consider such things. Interestingly, a few men I know who live in high crime areas didn’t have any trouble with it at all. A lot of how it strikes you depends on your particular circumstances.

  37. says

    I have to wonder just what he was expecting here. It seems like he had a White Knight fantasy in his head and didn’t care for the reality of the situation.

    Well he is an MRA isn’t he? I’m guessing he was expecting that the woman he rescued would be so overwhelmed by his manly act of valor that she would have dropped onto her back and told him to take her there and then. I’m also guessing that he was quite surprised when “negging” her over her disheveled appearance after her ordeal didn’t cause her to fall madly in love with him.

    In short, MRA’s are assholes, and he had asshole level expectations.

  38. raven says

    Creationist Fan of VenomFangX Videos Kills Woman, Himself
    amused-muse.blogspot.com/…/creationist-fan-of-venomfangx-videos…

    14 Apr 2009 – Creationist Fan of VenomFangX Videos Kills Woman, Himself … She reportedly was not his girlfriend and rebuffed his repeated sexual …

    Some of these internet sociopaths are just what they appear to be.

    VenomfangX was a wacko creationist who had a minor Youtube following. One of his fans stalked, and ultimately killed a woman at his college. Reportedly one reason was because she was an atheist, the other that she was…a woman.

    I learned a long time ago that what you see is what you get with the internet. In the Dark Ages very early in the internet era, on a nonreligious subject forum, most people used their real names. One guy was obviously having troubles and suddenly disappeared.

    A few months later, one of the regulars found out why. From a newspaper clipping he had died in a shootout with the police during a spectacularly inept daylight mall robbery.

    Draw your own conclusions. I know cyberspace can be dangerous.

  39. Koshka says

    Raging Bee,

    My comprehension is that this

    I’d be horribly frustrated too, if I had done the same thing and got the response he got

    Is defending him on a significant level.

    You would get horribly frustrated because a raped women you helped doesn’t thank you enough?

    You realise she was raped?

  40. says

    That laugh is really creepy. I kept getting reminded of the time when VenomFangX put clown makeup all over his face… I’m no psychiatrist, but I’d put money on that being a classic example of psychotic behaviour.

  41. says

    VenomfangX was a wacko creationist who had a minor Youtube following. One of his fans stalked, and ultimately killed a woman at his college. Reportedly one reason was because she was an atheist, the other that she was…a woman.

    Um in that guys case he actually did have untreated paranoid schizophrenia.

    That said, that his illness manifested n the clothing of religiosity and was almost indistinguishable from VFX and other fan’s is a big problem of how religion masks illness.

  42. says

    That laugh is really creepy. I kept getting reminded of the time when VenomFangX put clown makeup all over his face… I’m no psychiatrist, but I’d put money on that being a classic example of psychotic behaviour.

    Context. It was specifically Joker make up during the time when TDK was out so it was a media reference everyone would get. That’s not psychotic behavior

    What is questionable is why he identified his message with that character.

  43. Louis says

    I think Raging Bee’s point is that it is possible to understand this man’s feelings of being entitled to a reward without actually agreeing with them. If that’s the case I find that unobjectionable. It’s certainly possible to put yourself into the mind/position of someone you passionately disagree with in order to understand their position. If that’s not his/her point then this isn’t very relevant!

    Two friends of mine once had a confrontation in a game of 5-a-side soccer resulting in them fronting up to one another nose to nose, and the less restrained of the two headbutting the other. Since I was friends with both guys I had conversations with both. The controversial conversation was with the person who was headbutted because I said I “understood” why the other guy headbutted him even though I strongly disagreed with him doing it and thought he was an arse for doing so.

    “Understanding” was taken to mean “excusing”, as if the act of comprehension renders something moral acceptable. It just doesn’t. All understanding something means is, given the set of circumstances and priors a person finds themselves in and with, certain actions are likely. The (questionable) nature of those circumstances and priors are not in anyway justified (or otherwise) by that process. It’s simply noting that one could logically progress from one position to another. The error is like the naturalistic fallacy, as if the fact that something is means it must be right. NO! It’s just not the case that an act being capable of being understood also renders it morally correct or approvable.

    Sorry….had to pick that nit!

    Louis

  44. says

    Louis, you are free, of course, to interpret this any way you like:

    I’d be horribly frustrated too, if I had done the same thing and got the response he got

    I’ll be content with taking Raging Bee at xis word here.

  45. Gregory Greenwood says

    Shorter JohntheOther;

    “I am a empathy free, deeply misogynist sadist who would happily abandon a woman to be raped when I could stop it because you awful feminists insist that women are actually people rather than just living sextoys/unpaid servants/bit players in my own little hero fantasy.”

    And after a nauseating display like that, he has the gall to call Watson a sociopath?

    By the FSM’s noodly appendage, that nasty, lying little MRA git makes me sick to the pit of my stomach.

    As for myself, I have never come across a rape in progress, but if I did I would do all I could to prevent it. I would demand that the rapist cease and desist, summon aid, call the police, record the features and identity of the attacker to aid the police in apprehending them, and, in the very unlikely event that all else failed, I would intervene physically.

    And I obviously wouldn’t expect gushing thanks from the victim of such a hideous attack for doing nothing more than that which is to be expected of any halfway decent human being who is capable of such action. I would understand that the situation wasn’t about me or my ego.

    What I cannot imagine doing – what I don’t think any person with even the tiniest shred of empathy could imagine doing – is simply ignoring the atrocity altogether as if it isn’t happening before your very eyes, and walking on by for no better reason than because you happen to be angry about the strawman version of feminism that exists only in your own head.

    The fact that JohntheOther could do such a thing makes me think that there is something very wrong with him indeed.

  46. carlie says

    Caine – I took that statement as with an implied “If I had been raised that way and with that training in those thought processes, then…” I’d be horribly frustrated too etc. So much immersion into the character that it wasn’t clear that it was a thought experiment, basically. But I admit that’s just my interpretation.

  47. scorpy1 says

    I said his actions (if, in fact, he really did what he says he did, which is not certain) deserve recognition, not reward.

    The problem, though, is that you’re treating recognition as a reward.
    i.e. as you said, “the woman didn’t show the appreciation of his manly deed”.

    The point is that recognition/appreciation is NOT a requirement of honest chivalry or righteousness. Nobody owed him anything, especially not someone reeling from the emotional devastation of a rape.

    Instead of insisting that the victim recognize someone’s heroism, can’t you see that that’s reasonably not on a victim’s mind at that time? Who’s emotional needs trumps whose?

  48. says

    Carlie:

    Caine – I took that statement as with an implied “If I had been raised that way and with that training in those thought processes, then…”

    You could be right and I could be wrong. I’m sure our radars ping on different criteria. It read to me like a casually dangerous mindset excusing a distinctly dangerous mindset. I also got more than a whiff of privilege.

  49. raven says

    rational wiki:

    On Good Friday, 2009, the 28-year-old Powell went to the MacKenzie Fine Arts Center at Henry Ford Community College, where he studied. There, Powell allegedly took a shotgun, murdered a 20-year-old fellow student named Asia McGowan, and then turned the gun on himself.[1][2]

    Powell stated in his YouTube videos (deleted from the site, as his account was suspended months before his suicide) that

    he was a “true Christian.” He also called atheists “the fallen angels of the devil” and referred to evolution as “the funniest comedy ever! I’m laughing!”[3] He accused atheists of being “evil” and “deceived by the devil”, and referred to them as “the devil’s troopers”. He claimed that atheists were “not human” but were instead “filthy animals”.[4]

    I’ve never seen it mentioned anywhere that this murderer was a paranoid SZ. But then again, I did a reasonable but not exhaustive google search.

  50. Louis says

    Incidentally, if that’s Raging Bee’s point, then it’s the only thing I do find unobjectionable.

    The circumstances, attitudes, privilege etc that lead to this JohnTheOther thinking that he is entitled to a cookie for doing something he should have done, and that the woman is somehow wrong for (quite justifiably) rejecting him in some way, are truly objectionable. I can see how this John person might have the priors required to make that inference but I still think he’s horribly wrong. More than that, I think understanding those priors is key to demolishing them.

    What is more important, in my view, is how this misogynist scumbag has used his feelings of “rejection” to shore up his misogyny. Think about the tangled thought processes required to get THERE. Urgh.

    Louis

  51. Louis says

    Caine, #53

    Shit! I missed THAT nugget of “gold”…

    …Urgh.

    Welllll, I suppose my fine ass pernikety point of order stands but now I feel all dirty!

    I wouldn’t feel frustrated by the “rejection” of a rape victim I had just aided, hell such a rejection is MORE than understandable it’s completely justified, and I certainly don’t condone any defence of that frustration. That part of Raging Bee’s comment is privilege-whiffy I agree.

    Louis

  52. says

    I’ve never seen it mentioned anywhere that this murderer was a paranoid SZ. But then again, I did a reasonable but not exhaustive google search.

    “Anthony Powell had a long history of depression and mental illness. His mother stated that she considered him a suicide risk, but not a potential murderer. He had few friends and difficulty with basic face-to-face social interactions but was prolific in his online communications where he posted misogynistic profanity-laced rants on YouTube railing against black women for their supposed immoral behavior and use of abortion, hatred for atheists, and ridicule of evolution. [2] Like many school shooters Anthony exhibited a very toxic personality and had numerous online detractors. [3]”

  53. Pteryxx says

    What is more important, in my view, is how this misogynist scumbag has used his feelings of “rejection” to shore up his misogyny. Think about the tangled thought processes required to get THERE. Urgh.

    A lot of would-be “chivalrous” types intervene for women because they think the woman will owe them a date/relationship/sex afterwards. “I saved you, now you belong to me” sort of idea. These ones turn up in places threatening to women, such as campus parking lots late at night, or crowded bars, and often they try to volunteer in campus watch programs or abuse hotlines. It’s also not uncommon for a spouse abuser to “chivalrously” attack other men who harass “his” woman, which gives the outside impression that he’s a fine upstanding citizen. (This trope also shows up in, like, every damsel-in-distress story since the dawn of time.)

    I’m thinking that might be why this John douchebag was hanging around that park in the first place – because “rape” in his head might mean “dating opportunity”. Thus, if the woman doesn’t put out for her chivalrous savior, it must not have been “real” rape in the first place, I guess.

  54. raven says

    @61

    Good find about Anthony Powell.

    But that doesn’t look like paranoid SZ at all.

    Depression sure. I doubt that too many people haven’t been depressed at one time or another, especially these days.

    Thinking about Rick Santorum too much would make anyone normal depressed. Watching the once great USA disintegrate into a puddle of right wing oogedy boogedy religion is depressing.

  55. says

    The thing about this “expecting a rape victim to behave like X” is that this fuck actually hurts victims and denies them justice.
    If (s)he didn’t do X after the rape, then it wasn’t rape/it never happened/ is a lie.
    When the actual common/typical behaviour for victims is about 180° from what people who don’t have a fucking clue are expecting.

  56. Louis says

    Pteryxx, #62,

    Indeed.

    One of the things that has kept me from doing specific types of voluntary work is even if I don’t have toxic chivalry of that self aggrandising nature* lurking in some recess of my mind somewhere (and, hell, I’m English-ish, I probably do!) I certainly don’t want to give that impression. I think it’s better for all but the most unambiguously angelic men to keep well away, donate money and indirect forms of support until actually needed in the case of rape shelters and the like. I might be wrong about that, but it’s not an area I feel comfortable intruding on, so I think it’s best I don’t. Since I do a bit of voluntary work, it’s something I’ve considered but have yet to feel is appropriate for me to do. It’s so easy to cross the line, or appear to.

    Louis

    * I mean toxic chivalry as in “I must help the helpless likkle laydeez, therefore I R GUD” not as in “rapes/victims are date opportunities”. Ew ew ew ew EW!

  57. says

    and that he was at risk of being accused of being the rapist

    That risk exists in stepping in to help a stranger in any confused and violent (or potentially violent) situation. So what? The victim is suffering more than a risk. The victim is suffering an actual attack. Basically he’s saying he’s a selfish wanker who cares more about a potential but improbable risk to himself than an actual violence being done to someone else.

    (Plus, I have to admit to a certain scepticism regarding such a conveniently pat excuse for his attitude. Smells rather of fantasy to me.)

  58. says

    Louis:

    I might be wrong about that, but it’s not an area I feel comfortable intruding on, so I think it’s best I don’t.

    I’ve found that it’s most common (and best) to have females answering phones at a rape crisis center and to be the ones who show up at the hospital and are there during the examination and so forth. That said, back when I counseled and did advocacy, some of the best advocates (people who accompany a victim to the police department, the District Attorney’s office, etc.) I worked with were men.

  59. unclefrogy says

    I do not want to hear his voice it was bad enough that I read some of his words the other day. His only use is as a bad example which are some times just as good a s a good example.

    As I understand chivalric values which I thought were concerned with things like honor for itself and not about some kind of reward for doing the right thing. Having the courage to do the right thing,the honorable thing, the honest thing regardless of the consequences to ones self without the expectation of personal glory or benefit. Showing respect even for ones enemies. If his story is true then he was a shallow youth who did not pass that test of his honor and I have nothing else to say about it.

    uncle frogy

  60. says

    To Raging Bee, to Simbri, and to Zmidponk: Thanks so much for your concern about how all these poor put-upon menz feel. Waah.

    RB, #28: Trust me, women are very well-aware that, in instances of a man rescuing a woman from sexual violence, society privileges his feelings of entitlement to gratitude over her trauma. We get this shit from movies and TV and books. We don’t need your clueless ass mansplaining it to us.

    And, no, “chivalrous” isn’t the same as “right.” Chivalry is a damned fucked up, patronizing, possession-oriented way for men to relate to women. Aside from what Pteryxx says at #62, ANY man I have ever seen call himself a “gentleman” or “chivalrous” has had a host of nasty sexist assumptions beneath his “well-mannered” exterior, and those manners tend to vanish pretty fast when women don’t behave the way he wants them to — he can go from a good-natured but patronizing “dear” to a more cutting “sweetheart” to “cunt” and “bitch” in under a minute.

    Finally, fuck you at #38 for playing the “emotional” card, you privileged shitweasel.

    Louis/Carlie: I agree with Caine. The point is that society extends plenty of understanding to such men. I don’t see the need for it to be extended in this space, which would continue to center them and their fee-fees in a discussion about the rape of women.

  61. Louis says

    Caine,

    I think I asked you all about this once before, and whilst you were all broadly supportive (of the idea of men being first responders in rape centres etc), in further discussions with my wife and other people I respect, I felt it wasn’t the best idea for me.

    I guess I am, in part, questioning my own motives/abilities. I don’t really suspect myself of wickedness, but I have a humorous streak a mile wide and an inappropriate streak a light year wider than that. Whilst I am reasonable on the empathy front, I am more concerned about doing the wrong thing as an untrained amateur and generally not making things better through mis-step than anything unpleasant.

    Anyway, thanks, but this thread is not about me….derail over.

    Louis

  62. Louis says

    Ms Daisycutter,

    Louis/Carlie: I agree with Caine. The point is that society extends plenty of understanding to such men. I don’t see the need for it to be extended in this space, which would continue to center them and their fee-fees in a discussion about the rape of women.

    With regards to me, good point! I’mma gettin’ mah man fee-fees* outta here! They do not belong! :-)

    I was being a nit-picking philosophy geek, not a man fee-fee defening geek. You and I both know that man fee-fees are not special.**

    Louis

    *MAH MAN FEE-FEES! THEY ARE IMPORTANT!!!!!!! WHY YOU NO LOVE MAH MAN FEE-FEES? I HAS A MAN-SAD.

    ** Ohhh but they SO are! See * ;-)

  63. says

    Ms. Daisy Cutter:

    Finally, fuck you at #38 for playing the “emotional” card, you privileged shitweasel.

    It was just adorable seeing Bitchez be hysterical all dressed up, wasn’t it?

  64. FilthyHuman says

    @Ms. Daisy Cutter
    #69

    Finally, fuck you at #38 for playing the “emotional” card, you privileged shitweasel.

    Hey! Weasels are awesome, don’t put them on the same level.

  65. Pteryxx says

    I think it’s better for all but the most unambiguously angelic men to keep well away, donate money and indirect forms of support until actually needed in the case of rape shelters and the like. I might be wrong about that, but it’s not an area I feel comfortable intruding on, so I think it’s best I don’t.

    Argh… I realized after I posted the comment that someone might get this impression from what I said. This is my general spiel, not directed to Louis specifically.

    Any rape/abuse hotline or volunteer organization worth their salt will KNOW they attract chivalry predators and will have behavior and monitoring guidelines, such as restricting the exchange of personal information or repeat contacts. They’re also understaffed. I think it’s more important to offer in good faith and let them assign a buddy to you during training or whatever their method may be. And some places may not let guy volunteers answer calls or respond alone instead of with buddies, but that’s really up to them and not sufficient reason to not even try. If good men DON’T help volunteer, it just leaves the field open such that any guy who cares about rape victims must be a creepy predator, and that offends me.

    Caveat: I’ve never actually been an abuse hotline or campus watch volunteer, though I’ve investigated volunteering.

    I’ve also never intervened for a rape victim (that I know of) in all the cases of crying strangers that I’ve approached. But most of them, more than half IIRC, when I ask “Can I help?” say “No thanks” and then I leave. For all I know, that’s because I’m so scary they can’t stand me being there. If a woman to whom I offered help yelled “Get away from me!” instead, that’s fine too. I don’t see how it’d be any different if I helped stop a rape; I can call the police or keep an eye out just as well while staying twenty feet away from the person I’m trying to help.

    So if y’all really aren’t comfortable volunteering for your own reasons, that’s fine; but I don’t think “they wouldn’t want me anyway” is a valid excuse.

    I should also admit that I’m white-looking enough that I’m not realistically afraid of the police taking my call as an excuse to hassle me. I don’t see how women I offer to help should be any more likely to make false rape accusations than women in general are (that is, NOT BLOODY LIKELY.)

  66. Gunboat Diplomat says

    I can empathise with Johntheother. When I was 23 or 24 I was involved in a similar incident and got no thanks at all from the victim. Wearing nothing but my manly construction workers outfit (straight from the YMCA rehearsal I had just attended) I came across a French maid in a park being sexually assaulted by a man. It was quite close to Johntheothers park but this one was patrolled exclusively by french maids as opposed to nurses. (I believe they worked the French embassy that was under construction at the time). I kicked the mans ass with my samsonite tipped boot several times until he stopped assaulting the woman , kicked him out of the park, down the highway and into a jail cell. Imagine my surprise when the woman then accused me of assaulting her boyfriend.

    Now some of you may be thinking as someone with sociopathic tendencies myself perhaps I was unable to pick up the social cues differentiating sexual assault from kissing and cuddling (consent or something). Others may be thinking I’ve invented the entire event to appear vaguely humanoid despite saying I don’t give a fuck about rape victims. I assure you neither is true.

    In summary, Youtube is the greatest force for democracy in history and feminists are evil. Thank you for watching. Click like to make me feel happy.

  67. Kalliope says

    @Angry Bee

    The reason that people consider your original, and following posts, to be twisted is because we cannot relate to a scenario where we are more concerned with our own egos and accolades than the well being of someone being raped!

    We cannot relate to this. This is so… bizarre and twisted. When many (most, I hope) people are confronted with someone suffering horrifically, our entire focus is on that person, not on ourselves.

    Sometimes I get huffy if I hold a door for someone who makes no move to acknowledge it. That’s not what we’re talking about here. We’re talking about someone who needs help and enter that interactions with expectations of anything FROM that person is heavily narcissistic at best and sociopathic at worst.

  68. Pteryxx says

    Hiya Gunboat Diplomat. So you know, people in this thread have actual emotions, including sympathy and empathy. Since you’re allergic to those, I helpfully suggest you withdraw for your own sanguinity. Peace.

  69. FilthyHuman says

    @Pteryxx
    #77
    I think he/she is being sarcastic toward Johntheother.
    Of course, I don’t know much of his/her history to know for sure.

  70. Pteryxx says

    Thanks, Daz and FilthyHuman. Yeah, I’m responding to GD based on past interactions that I was involved in, not to the content of this specific post. I appreciate the fix though.

  71. FilthyHuman says

    @Caine

    Pteryxx:

    MLP: The Mysterious Mare-Do-Well

    :Snortle: That’s perfect, just his level.

    Woohoo! Ponies!

  72. simbri says

    Ms Daisy Cutter

    I’m sorry if my message wasn’t clear, starting the comment with the words ‘I can understand’ maybe wasn’t a good idea for my intended meaning. I assure you no concern for this arse was meant – concern about what his future actions might be, maybe. I was trying to say that it’s normal to have an instant defensive reaction on first contact to something that goes against your previously held ideas. But that’s all – the very first reaction. As in, any normal person then thinks about it and changes their mind if they agree, or come up with a rational, not emotional, objection if they still don’t.
    This guy (and similarly histrionic MRAs) don’t seem capable of moving beyond that very initial, emotional stage – what they say sure isn’t rational. And I repeat what I said about him before, what he says is despicable and scary.

    Perhaps this thread wasn’t the place for musing about the MRA mindset, in which case I also apologise.

    (I’m not very happy with the use of ‘emotional’, but I can’t think of the word that I want)

  73. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Good thing I shit canned GD a while ago. He needs to get over himself. Nobody cares what he thinks, because he doesn’t think.

  74. Pteryxx says

    (I’m not very happy with the use of ‘emotional’, but I can’t think of the word that I want)

    Um… maybe “selfish”, “narcissistic”, “biased” or “in denial”? There are lots of ways to be irrational, and emotion’s not necessarily one of them.

  75. A. R says

    I was wondering why I was seeing a killfiled ‘nyn I didn’t recognize at first. Go away GD, most of the regulars have you killfiled anyway.

  76. Amphiox says

    In a way, I can sort of understand the feelings behind his stupid attitude: he did the chivalrous thing, at considerable risk to himself, to stop a brutal attack on an innocent person, as he had probably been taught a man should do (for which he does deserve recognition); but the woman didn’t show the appreciation of his manly deed as he had probably been taught to expect; and that made him very confused and frustrated, because he did what he’d been taught to do and didn’t get the response he was taught he could fairly expect. I’d be horribly frustrated too, if I had done the same thing and got the response he got.

    Well, his reaction afterwards is decidedly NOT chivalrous, as the code of chivalry actually requires a knight NOT to outwardly express confusion or frustration (as he did with his odious post) if he does not immediately get the appreciation he thinks he expects from the woman. Chivalry actually would have required for him to retreat from the situation when she asked him not to touch her, and keep his big mouth shut about it (in fact it requires that he keep quiet PERMANENTLY, or until such time that she gives him permission to speak).

    If he had been capable of just a little bit of empathy, it might have allowed him to understand how a woman who had just been assaulted might be reluctant to let another strange man touch her, and if he had just had the patience to wait a little while, he might well have received the appreciation he thought he deserved, after giving the victim the needed space and time to emotionally recover a bit.

    And if not, well, the code of chivalry states that virtue is its own reward, and requires no other acknowledgment.

  77. Gunboat Diplomat says

    Awww its nice to be remembered, I’m sure some of you have missed me despite yourselves ;) Sadly I can’t stick around which I’m sure will break everyones heart, or would if I hadn’t been killfiled and they could read what I said.
    Also killfile sounds pretty terrifying, I’m half expecting a robot from the future to materialise and vaporise me…

  78. simbri says

    Pteryxx,

    Thanks, that was the problem – I don’t see emotions as being necessarily invalid in an argument.

  79. Philip Legge says

    John Hembling, Take Two: the Doubling Down on the “I’m a sociopath because of you feminists” Episode

    Link

    I gather in this video the point of editing the new portions in with the old was to unambiguously make clear that he stood by the bullshit he said the first time.

    (Again, courtesy of ye denizens of ManBoobz.)

  80. says

    Philip Legge:

    John Hembling, Take Two: the Doubling Down on the “I’m a sociopath because of you feminists” Episode

    Thanks, but no thanks. I’ve had enough of JH to last a lifetime.

  81. says

    Philip:

    I think we’ve all had enough MRAs for a lifetime.

    Pity there seems to be an unending supply of them. At least they don’t seem to flock here in droves anymore, they are utterly exhausting to deal with.

    I did read the latest ManBoobz post about it though. Confirmation bias, eh? Uh huh.

  82. Gen Fury, Still Desolate and Deviant #1 says

    Hokay, this vid is just straight-up terrifying. That laugh he does at 2:13? WTF? As a lifetime lover of fictional horror in all its incarnations, THIS SHIT IS TERRIFYING FOR REAL, YO.

    Hasty transcript, done by me.

    ( TRIGGER WARNING FOR VIVID DESCRIPTION OF A RAPE and violence)

    Hi, I’m JohntheOther, and today I’m doing sort of an open letter style video. To the Youtube feminists; if you’re not one of these people, this isn’t for you, but to the Youtube feminists, and I mean the Nuclear Knights, the Jedi Boo Boos, the Diana Bostons, the Anti Cleansers* of the world, and all of your little friends. This is for you.

    You have had an effect. Collectively, you have had an effect. You have got through to some of the evil men on youtube and in the world I, I would expect. And the effect that you had probably isn’t the one that you were aiming for. The effect I think you were aiming for is to shame us all, to silence us, to make us bow our head in shame and just fucking go along with your sick, twisted, hateful agenda.

    That’s not the effect you’ve had.

    The effect you’ve had is that I-, I, a man, don’t give a fuck about rape victims anymore. I cannot force myself to give a shit. I know that intellectually I should. I know that rape is a terrible crime and being subject to is is probably a terrible thing. But I don’t give a fuck.

    And the reason I don’t give a fuck is you. You Youtube feminists, you victim cult members, you female supremist [sic] assholes. Yeah. I laythis blame on you. And perhaps it’s not blame. Br-, I’m just, I’m just making an analysis of cause and effect here. You see, you have for so long repeated this mantra ‘all men are evil, all men are rapists, you’re a rapist, you’re a rapist, rape rape rape rape rape’. That’s all I’ve heard from your camp for the entire time I’ve been on youtube, which is about three years now, and I can no longer find myself giving a shit.

    I don’t give a flying fuck about rape victims anymore. The real ones. Not the fake victims like you. Not the fake victims.

    The fake victims… (REALLY CREEEEEEEPY LAUGH)

    You think we can’t tell the difference between an actual victim and a real one? (BRIEF LAUGHTER: AHAHAHA**)

    No. But you see, I don’t give a flying fuck about real rape victims any more, and you are the cause. You have completely numbed me. Because your endless repetition of this mantra that men are all victimizers [sic] and women are all victims, women are at continuous risk to be raped any second; (BRIEF LAUGHTER: AHAHA)

    I don’t give a fuck!

    So in, in the real world, out in the world, if I encounter a rape in progress, what am I going to do? Stop it? No! I’m gonna walk around it. Why? Why am I gonna walk around it? Wouldn’t a real man stop it? Well yeah. Yeah probably. But that’s a real man by your definition.

    You see, when I was 22 or 23 years old, I was a construction worker and, uh, one of the places I work was, uh, the St. Paul hospital addition, where the research center is on, uh, 16th avenue, sorry, on 12th avenue and Oak Street, and I worked there for about a year and a half while that building was going up and next to the hospital was a park. I’m not sure if the park is there anymore, I think they’ve built another, uh, building there, but there used to be a park there and the nurses who worked in the hospital used to have to walk through this park to get to where their cars were parked.

    And on occasion this park was the scene of rape. This- (video cut). And being a construction worker, I also ended up walking through that park because I worked in that building too. Around two in the morning, I was coming off a night shift and, uh, I had slung over my shoulder my tool belt (GESTURES USED TO REPRESENT THE TOOL BELT) which had a, a dry wall saw and a hatchet and a tape measure and a bag of screws and a bunch of other stuff, and I still had on my steel-toed boots and I was covered in drywall dust and I was tired, I’d worked about 12 hours, and, uhm, I came upon a scene from a nightmare.

    There was, I could hear screaming, and I could hear s-, scuffling. Uhm, and, there was a large man bent over a woman and it, it was a really surreal scene and it was immediately obvious to me that this was a rape in progress. The woman was partially naked and the man’s pants was around his ankles and humping away and, but she was still struggling, but she was sobbing as well. And he was grunting. And what I did, is I kicked him up the ass with my steel-toed boots, uhm and I kicked him four five six seven eight nine times and I kicked him and I kept kicking him and I kicked him until he was off her and then I kicked him out off the local area, I kicked him down the path.

    And then I went back to find out what had happened to the woman and she was still on the ground, pulling herself together. And I tried to help her, I tried to offer her my hand to walk her back to the hospital and she was so terrified that she treated me as if I was the rapist. And so all I did, I couldn’t do anything, I just stood back, I s-, I couldn’t get close to her because she was too terrified of me.

    So I phoned, I phoned the police and I stayed back and I just stood around for about half an hour until the police arrived and an ambulance arrived, and I did not talk to them.

    Now I had a police officer visit me at my apartment later because they had traced the phone call, and I wrote a report and everything was fine and she got-, she got treatment back at the hospital where she worked.

    That was, uh, when I was 23 or 24 years old. I’m 40 years old now. And if I came upon a similar scene, what would I do now? The same thing? No! I’d, I’d see that nightmare I’ve seen happening and I’d turn around and walk the other way.

    Why is that?

    Because I know now, that I didn’t know then, that the greater chance is that I will be somehow implicated in the rape because that’s the way our society now works. I would probably expect that I would be painted with the brush labelled ‘rapist’, even if I was the person intervening and stopping the rape.

    And also I no longer give a fuck. Why don’t I give a fuck? Intellectually I care. I care about people being harmed. But when it comes to rape, emotionally I no longer care because I have been subject to your relentless torrent of accusation.

    You, Youtube feminists, and feminists in the real world, this is the effect you’ve had. A man who would have stopped a rape will no longer stop one.

    And yeah, that’s my face.

    To everybody else, if you’re still here, didn’t I tell you not to watch this? Thanks for watching and, uh, have a great day.

    * Spelling on some of these names may be off, I have no effing clue who these people are, going purely phonetically here.
    ** I’ve seen “Ahahahaha” spelled out and read it in books before. Never actually *heard* it used as a form of laughter unironically.

    I don’t even know where to start with all this.

  83. Pteryxx says

    O_O Thank you for the transcript Gen Fury, and especially THANK YOU for the trigger warning. WTFnF.

  84. says

    You think we can’t tell the difference between an actual victim and a real one? (BRIEF LAUGHTER: AHAHAHA**)

    No. But you see, I don’t give a flying fuck about real rape victims any more, and you are the cause. You have completely numbed me. Because your endless repetition of this mantra that men are all victimizers [sic] and women are all victims, women are at continuous risk to be raped any second; (BRIEF LAUGHTER: AHAHA)

    I don’t give a fuck!

    So in, in the real world, out in the world, if I encounter a rape in progress, what am I going to do? Stop it? No! I’m gonna walk around it.

    See because I wanted to disprove your point about men all being victimizers I have become a victimizer! HA suck my cock!

  85. says

    And also I no longer give a fuck. Why don’t I give a fuck? Intellectually I care. I care about people being harmed. But when it comes to rape, emotionally I no longer care because I have been subject to your relentless torrent of accusation.

    You, Youtube feminists, and feminists in the real world, this is the effect you’ve had. A man who would have stopped a rape will no longer stop one.

    Question: What is the ethical difference between this and saying “because I don’t like you I’m going to go out and rape someone”?

  86. says

    and then I kicked him out off the local area, I kicked him down the path.

    I can’t help but note that he chased this guy out of the park, rather than subdue and/or hold him for the police. I wonder if he was ever caught.

  87. chigau (√-1) says

    Gen Fury
    Thanks for the transcipt.
    (two dozen rants about JtO swallowed)
    *puke*

  88. A. R says

    I’m not really certain how he was able to make the leap from feminism to Good Samaritans being accused of rape. Then again, he probably isn’t that Good of a Samaritan

  89. Louis says

    I maintain this guy is a deeply charming and lovely individual…

    …no, wait…it’s the other thing isn’t it?

    Louis

  90. Who Cares says

    @Gen Fury, Still Desolate and Deviant #1:
    Thanks for posting the transcript.

    I, seeing his character, can understand him expecting to be regarded by the victim as heroic the instant he vanquished the bad guy. Quite a few men would be nonplussed about her rejecting help from them (not strange seeing that what another man just did to her). What those other men wouldn’t do is use the fear, and related actions, of the victim as a [censored] excuse to not help.

    And now excuse me I need a shower since trying to understand his position felt like jumping into a gierput.

  91. FilthyHuman says

    @Ing
    #105

    See because I wanted to disprove your point about men all being victimizers I have become a victimizer! HA suck my cock!

    So I guess it’s a sort of twisted version of “If you can’t beat the rep. Embrace it.”

    Sadly, he failed to figure out that said rep wasn’t there in the first place.

  92. Pteryxx says

    Because your endless repetition of this mantra that men are all victimizers [sic] and women are all victims, women are at continuous risk to be raped any second;

    …But this is bullshit. Was this even mainstream for feminism 15 years ago? Much less now?

    He’s only got two arguments: “feminists say all men are rapists” and “rape victim reacted as if I was the rapist”. The first isn’t true and the second’s a misinterpretation. Having a victim flinch from him is SUCH an offense that he stews over it for years until it culminates in hating all feminists and all rape victims? “But I’m not like that!” is a moral imperative now?

    What the fuck is wrong with MRAs that they think everything in the world is directed personally at them as individuals? Dangit, if someone is terrified of me, I’m going to damn well try to be less scary! For petes sake!

  93. says

    Pteryxx:

    Was this even mainstream for feminism 15 years ago? Much less now?

    JH and the others like him (a la AVFM) have convinced themselves that all feminists and feminism is within the confines of The SCUM Manifesto and the Dianics of the 60s/70s.

  94. Pteryxx says

    Okay… so it’s the MRA equivalent of global warming denial, more or less.

    They’re also assuming that category:feminist = ALL FEMINISTS ARE WORST POSSIBLE THING, the same way they’re *hearing* “category:men = ALL MEN ARE WORST POSSIBLE THING” even though neither is true.

    I want the word “Other” taken back from this dude. Yikes.

  95. omnicrom says

    Watching this video makes me SERIOUSLY doubt he ever came to the aid of a woman, the kind of sick he’s putting out there is so incredibly deep-seated it probably precludes ever knowingly aiding a woman.

    And even if this story isn’t a complete fantasy, his excuse that a rape victim didn’t instantly SWOON over his manly heroics means that he refuses to lift a finger to help another woman? That’s sick, that really is. If the story is true (Which I doubt) it means that even BEFORE he had this “epiphany” on the evils of feminism he seriously thought that a woman would and should immediately fall upon him for being a manly man. Invented or not all this story proves is that Johntheother is rotten to the core from start to finish.

  96. Ogvorbis: shameless AND impudent! says

    Was this even mainstream for feminism 15 years ago? Much less now?

    Don’t think so. However, anytime any woman has tried to discuss the social dynamics of rape, the societal acceptance of rape, the power inequalities inherrent in rape, and, well, basically anything that tried to show that no matter what a woman has done, the man still makes the decision to rape her has been treated as an accusation that feminists think all men are rapists. I suspect this battle cry predates modern feminism but have no way of actually knowing.

  97. FilthyHuman says

    @Ing
    #114

    Also what sort of nutty troll logic is that?

    Because of what you said about me because of how horrible I am…made me retroactively decide never to help rape victims again and be the horrible person you criticize?

    How the fuck does he think he can justify a time loop out of this?

    Although assuming the twisted world his mind dreamed up is reality… his action would be logical in term of self preservation.

    IF the reality is that individuals (in his case, male) who helped a rape victim would have a high probably of being blamed for the rape themselves. It would be “rational” (given the condition) to not help rape victim.

    Of course, the world he imagined is completely disconnected from reality.

  98. says

    Ogvorbis:

    I suspect this battle cry predates modern feminism but have no way of actually knowing.

    It doesn’t. It’s only been with the advent of modern feminism that rape and sexual assaults have come out of the closet and people (read government and law enforcement) have had no choice but to deal with it.

    Rape and sexual assault is hardly new, it’s always been around, however, for most of history, there’s been little recourse for women on any front. The reason we’re still dealing with slut shaming and “eh, she was askin’ for it, did you see what she was wearing?” and “she shouldn’t have been out/been drinking” is the legacy of previous generations – the onus of how women are supposed to behave. Breaking that behaviour? You take the consequences, it’s your fault, after all.

    This was one area even the suffragettes couldn’t effectively broach or change.

  99. says

    @Petryxx #115: I was wondering where those hits came from. Seemed kind of odd on this comment thread but I hadn’t read the comments on this post so it makes sense now.

  100. Ogvorbis: shameless AND impudent! says

    Caine:

    Sorry. I apologize for further muddying the waters.

  101. FilthyHuman says

    #121
    Forgot to add. The world he imagined is definitely fabricated to help support his misogynistic view, which would explain why his “action” would make sense given the condition of his imagined world.

  102. Pteryxx says

    I think, since John’s using strawfeminism to justify his stance, that’d make it on topic to dissect.

    WilloNyx: I might owe you an apology for dragging you into this. It’s on offer if you want.

  103. carlie says

    Gen Fury, thanks for that – I couldn’t stand to watch it.

    It makes even less sense now. The woman didn’t treat him “like a rapist”, she was scared of any and everything in that moment. The police didn’t treat him “like a rapist”, they wanted his testimony as an eyewitness. Youtube feminists? He gave no indication he had ever recounted this story on a video before and gotten negative feedback. So he’s making this link IN HIS OWN MIND between an event that happened 10 years ago and the way some women now respond to…what exactly? It makes even less sense than before.

  104. says

    Ok. I tried to watch the video. Just.Can’t.Fucking.Do.It.

    Reading the article was easy but I can’t just listen to someone say repeatedly they don’t care about rape.

    Back to looking at pictures of flurry things.

  105. says

    Carlie:

    It makes even less sense than before.

    It makes sense, in a twisted way. Think of all the menz we’ve had show up here, who rail against Schroedinger’s Rapist, claiming that it proves [feminist] women believe all men are rapists. Think of how they cling to that belief, regardless of how many times it’s explained to them.

    JH is riffing on that – you ugly, uppity feminists think all men are rapists! You’re always claiming that a high number of women are raped! You claim there are no false accusations of rape by women! Well, if you’re going to do that, I’ll show you the actual effect you’re having with all this – men aren’t going to lift a finger to stop an assault. You want it to stop, you stop it, I ain’t doing a thing.

  106. Pteryxx says

    It makes even less sense now. The woman didn’t treat him “like a rapist”, she was scared of any and everything in that moment. The police didn’t treat him “like a rapist”, they wanted his testimony as an eyewitness.

    I keep trying to wrap my head around this and match it up with Meet the Predators, about that 6% or so of men who will gladly talk about the rapes they committed as long as the word “rape” isn’t used. The only guess I can make is that these entitled men have conflated “rapist” with “not a Real Man b/c can’t get wimminsex for the asking”. They’re reacting as if the mere existence of rapists who aren’t obvious monsters is a threat to their very identity.

  107. says

    @Pteryxx #127 I doubt you will need to apologize if any assholes make their way to my blog. I don’t actually suffer from PTSD from the experience so I can handle it I think.

    It took a lot for me to write and post to the world but I think I am prepared for the possible outcomes. I just hope my family doesn’t see it. (I really doubt they will)

    If it gets to be too much. I will beg my twitter friends for squee-pics and deal.

    I am done hogging a comment thread by being off-topic. Thanks for the patience.

  108. Pteryxx says

    np WilloNyx, you’re brave for putting it out there so we can all talk about this really happening to real people who are part of us. I’m in your debt.

  109. drmattdoom says

    I knew that people like this existed but it’s still really upsetting to hear someone admit that they consider their own bruised ego more important than the safety of a rape victim.

  110. joed says

    this definition doesn’t give much of the “psychology” involved in interrupting a rape and seriously thumping the attacker.
    The modern american feel for “chivalry”
    probably is more like “duty” rather than morality.
    At any rate this JohntheOther seems to be making shit up as he goes along. Seems there are more wires crossed here than just wanting to be a real man?!

    http://www.etymonline.com
    1797, from chivalry + -ic. Pronounced by poets with accent on the middle syllable, and since they are the only ones who need it, it might as well be pronounced that way by everyone.

    mid-14c., from O.Fr. chevaleros “knightly, noble, chivalrous,” from chevalier (see chevalier; also cf. chivalry). According to OED, obsolete in English and French from mid-16c. Not revived in French, but brought back in English late 18c. by romantic writers fond of medieval settings.

    late 13c., from O.Fr. chevalerie “knighthood, chivalry, nobility, cavalry, art of war,” from chevaler “knight,” from M.L. caballarius “horseman,” from L. caballus (see cavalier). From “mounted knight,” meaning stretched 14c. to “courtly behavior.”

  111. says

    I think most of the regulars already understand where JohnTheAsshole is coming from. Entitlement, privilege, toxic masculinity, kyriarchy. Pointing the fine detail of this out is really not very helpful. Potentially it could be helpful, if it were related to some good way to deprogram the less worse among these people. Otherwise, we know already, you get no thanks for rubbing our noses in it.

  112. says

    You, Youtube feminists, and feminists in the real world, this is the effect you’ve had. A man who would have stopped a rape will no longer stop one.

    so trollface admits to being part of the backlash. yawn. we already knew backlash and reactance existed. this has been known for so long in fact, we have an analysis of the long-term effects of increased feminist influence, and the analysis says that in the short term, greater gender-equality raises rape-rates (due to backlash), but in the long-term, it lowers it.

    Meaning, other than admitting to being reactionary scum, this video tells us nothing we didn’t already knew about social effects of feminism; and it especially doesn’t in any way demonstrate that feminism makes things worse.

  113. duce7999 says

    I don’t buy his story. If you kick a guy in his bare ass with a steel toe boot, you won’t have to kick him that many times before he is up (I would doubt any number over 1). His pants were around his ankles, yet he was still able to run down the street while being kicked? This is a fake story.

    This man is a coward, a liar, and a pig (no offense to pigs).

    > <3

  114. spyro says

    @Raven, #63

    [blockquote] Depression sure. I doubt that too many people haven’t been depressed at one time or another, especially these days.[/blockquote]

    Please don’t confuse feeling down with mental illness; it’s hard enough already without having people constantly tell you that you’re a drama queen/lazy/lying when you mention the debilitating aspects of having depression because they like, totally, were depressed too once but they just got on with/over it.

    On topic – JtO? Flaming arse.

  115. petzl20 says

    OK, um, there are many, many idiots on youtube. Whom I effectively ignore because I will never randomly come across their videos. But why is this maniac’s video on pharyngula? He has like 500 views on his youtube videos. No one is listening to him. Why are we giving him any attention at all?

  116. Ze Madmax says

    petzl20 @#144:

    But why is this maniac’s video on pharyngula? He has like 500 views on his youtube videos. No one is listening to him. Why are we giving him any attention at all?

    Well, the answer to the first question is pretty obvious: PZ thought it was relevant/interesting/noteworthy enough to make a blog post about it.

    As to the second question, I would argue that the fact that someone is willing to say that they would not help a rape victim, and proceed to justify this decision by blaming feminism is definitely noteworthy. It illustrates with brutal clarity how deeply embedded patriarchal values are, and how fucked up people can be in the so-called “developed” world.

  117. says

    petzl20:

    Why are we giving him any attention at all?

    He’s part of the larger MRA community (AVFM) and lately, he’s been busy spreading lies about Rebecca Watson. See the previous post about him.

    It really does no good to ignore these pisscakes – the more they are dragged into the light and the more people are aware of them, the better.

  118. Louis says

    Caine, #146,

    It really does no good to ignore these pisscakes – the more they are dragged into the light and the more people are aware of them, the better.

    And when they get into the light, they scurry like cockroaches and we can stamp on them.

    They make delicious crunching noises.

    Louis

  119. FossilFishy says

    I have been at the scene of a rape. It haunts me to this day, a decade and more later, because if I had been the only responder it’s likely that he would have gotten away with it. It haunts m e not because I wish I could have been *the* white knight but because my tardiness could have resulted in even more suffering. My only excuses are that the neighbourhood I was living in was the scene of frequent public arguments and the fact that there was no way I was going to intervene in a possible domestic dispute without having my boots on and full laced up. Those things offer me no comfort whatsoever.

    I cannot fathom how anyone could witness such a scene, such un-alloyed trauma, first responder or not, and still say the things that John does. This is what makes me want to doubt his story.

    But there’s plenty of evidence that such compassionless monsters do exist. I can only hope to fuck that that the apparent recent plethora of them is an artifact of the internet’s ability to spread hate without consequences, that they are in fact a rare thing.

    Once again I have to thank the Horde. Skeptics are my chosen community and it is heartening, despite the never ending stream of this shit, to see that a significant portion of them are not willing to let it slide.

  120. says

    FossilFishy:

    This is what makes me want to doubt his story.

    I don’t know if JH’s story is true or not. What I do know is that his video is a transparent attempt to shame and guilt [feminist] women* by telling them that if he or others like him “walk by” a rape in progress, it will their fault that no intervention will take place. Now, this tactic would not work at all if he didn’t have a convenient “I stopped a rapist” story, so there’s room for doubt on that score, to say the least. If the story is true, I’m glad he did the right thing.

    *And, I’m sure many men, but JH wouldn’t think of that, ’cause manly menz can’t be feminists, oh no.

  121. FossilFishy says

    Yah Caine, it doesn’t really matter if it’s true or not in the sense of how he’s now using that story. The veracity of the rape saviour claim has no effect on the harmful nature of the overall narrative.

  122. says

    And FossilFishy, you have no reason at all to feel bad or guilty about the rape you responded to – you *did* respond, and I can’t tell you just how much that does matter. Especially when there are so many people who make it policy to ignore violent crime taking place.

    The person who literally stumbled over me thought I was dead, but they did run for a phone right away to call the cops. If they hadn’t had done that, I probably would have died. Seriously, every single bit of help…it helps.

  123. janine says

    FossilFishy, sadly, all of us can play the If only I was earlier game with ourselves. The important thing is this, when you knew something harmful was happening, you acted to stop it.

    Sadly, not all people act in this way. Witness the ever increasing number of people who played a role in covering up for Gary Sandusky over the last two decades.

    It is natural for a decent person to wish that more could have been done to prevent the pain. But keep in mind that you are better than a lot of people.

    So much more needs to done to make this not so.

  124. FossilFishy says

    Caine and janine: Thank you for that. I understand intellectually that I shouldn’t beat myself up about might-have-beens but that knowledge doesn’t seem to effect how I feel emotionally about it. It’s a problem that I have, but this thread isn’t about me so I’ll shut up now.

  125. says

    Given this man’s willingness to flat out lie (the last post), I don’t believe a word of his rape story. A small part of me wants to wish him the irony of being raped and doubted himself, but even complete fucking scumbag wastes of human beings don’t deserve to experience that shit.

    On the [dull] bright side, it’s really interesting to see someone display sociopath/psychopathic behavior.

  126. Stacy says

    I agree the whole story’s probably a lie. All those pointless details about the building under construction and what was in his tool belt sound fishy to me, as does the dramatic cliche “a scene out of a nightmare” (uttered flatly and without affect, in the course of a story whose point is he doesn’t care about rape victims.)

    Lie or not, he’s a creepy fuckwit.

  127. =8)-DX says

    Btw, NuclearNight – (aka iremythpurr aka “All men are Rapists”) and Diana Boston (aka “that strange, disturbed woman”) – the two I know, are actually pretty much the loonies of the YouTubes.

    At least from all the videos of these two I’ve seen (mainly), the trans-phobia, sex-negativity, bullshit and all the stupid YouTube drama they’ve raked up in the past. They give feminism (and women) a bad rap. These two are definitely not to be compared to Rebecca or to other real feminist/activists/skeptics.

    That said, feminists on YouTube and elsewhere online have been doing a great job in informing people and changing our culture, not more needed than now for you in the US with all the attacks on women’s rights.

    That said, not caring about rape victims and essentially excusing rape is unconscionable and JohnTheOther is an asshole.

  128. osmosis says

    Hah! I just wouldn’t feel right if he hadn’t banned me from posting on his account. Since he’ll allow total wankers to say stupid things, I can ony assume it’s because I was making the wrong point too strongly. Or perhaps he’s at a loss to point out what RW has actually done to earn the bile directed against her.
    Forget this guy. He’s just the leader of an insgnificant, self-deluded cult of angry men who are incapable of introspection, refuse to accept responsibility for anything and cannot tolerate dissent. Or facts. And they really DO just hate womem.

  129. Cassandra Caligaria (Cipher), OM says

    Forget this guy. He’s just the leader of an insgnificant, self-deluded cult of angry men who are incapable of introspection, refuse to accept responsibility for anything and cannot tolerate dissent. Or facts. And they really DO just hate womem.

    I disagree!
    Never forget this guy. Never forget his cult of angry men who cannot tolerate dissent and really do just hate women. Two reasons. First, because the last thing you want to do is end up inadvertently befriending or dating one. Second, because insignificant as this particular handful of narcissistic creeps is, mountains are built out of such handfuls, when they happen to fall into the same place. I don’t know about the other women here, but for me it is impossible to forget that these people are out there – and others just as bad, like the assholes the Manology thread is about, or the fuckers who would rather watch women die than let them have access to a medical procedure, or the monsters who want women to marry their rapists. It all builds up. These guys are part of the culture.

  130. says

    osmosis:

    Forget this guy.

    Let me guess – you didn’t bother to read the comments, right? You might find comfort in ignorance is bliss, however, we generally prefer to stick with reality and ignoring the ever increasing amount of menz, the ever increasing reduction of womens’ autonomy, the ever increasing amount of legislative attempts to return us to 2nd class citizen state is not the least bit helpful.

  131. llewelly says

    Cassandra Caligaria (Cipher), OM
    23 March 2012 at 5:22 pm :

    I don’t know about the other women here, but for me it is impossible to forget that these people are out there – and others just as bad, like the assholes the Manology thread is about, or the fuckers who would rather watch women die than let them have access to a medical procedure, or the monsters who want women to marry their rapists. It all builds up. These guys are part of the culture.

    Agreed. Forgetting these people would be like forgetting there are murderers and thieves out there. It would be deliberate ignorance of a very real danger.