Why I am an atheist – A Texan »« The name “Kent Hovind” is like a demonic conjuration

Comments

  1. Dick the Damned says

    I guess a “The Woman’s Koran” wouldn’t be amiss. (So long as it were written by a woman, of course.)

  2. ibyea says

    I love how they start with the assumption that everyone gives a damn about what the bible has to say.

  3. fmitchell says

    I’m perpetually dumfounded that a collection of religious literature written by human beings over a thousand year time span, collected by a Roman emperor to create a state religion, translated by men removed from the original writers’ time and culture by a thousand more years, and interpreted in so many different and incompatible ways by various sects around the world … is still considered the Infallible Word of God. Any other document with that provenance would be suspect, if not proclaimed an outright forgery.

    Reinterpreting the Bible from a feminist perspective is like reinterpreting the Protocols of the Elders of Zion from a Jewish perspective. For the Doctor’s sake, why?

  4. says

    What would they want with their own Bible? Does it tell them how to make a sandwich? Next thing you are going to tell me is they want the right to own property, inherit and vote. Nonsense, I say!

  5. says

    Apparently, theology and science aren’t the only topics that theists are appallingly under-educated about.

    They also don’t know history — and especially the history of the US suffrage movement.

  6. Grumps says

    My goodness I love this place. Thankyou SC for that link #10. I haven’t heard it all yet but am still listening. I’m a Brit and knew nothing about Stanton until today… now I do, thanks again.

  7. baal says

    Ing spoke and forth came the following characters –

    Read at fist as “Satan’s Willies”

    Which I read at first as “fist as “Satan’s Willies”.”

  8. says

    My goodness I love this place. Thankyou SC for that link #10. I haven’t heard it all yet but am still listening. I’m a Brit and knew nothing about Stanton until today… now I do, thanks again.

    You’re welcome! It’s a very good talk, I think, not just in terms of providing a good general portrait of her but also in terms of getting at some of the important issues raised by this history. (And the Q&A, happily, is quite reasonable). Thanks for letting me know you appreciated it.

  9. anthonydavis says

    Nice satirical post you have here. Now, I take it that this is a crack at the Biblical view of gender but I will respond with a pragmatic argument rather than appealing to special revelation.

    It is evident that man and women were created with inherent competencies; however, it can be noted there are exceptions but you may have heard it said that we mustn’t make a rule based on an exception. Feminism tends to distort the facts in it’s effort to promote a fallacious notion of equality. The idea of feminism is terribly impractical and challenges the time-proven and effective hierarchy essential to proper functioning of a family. We see this same hierarchy at work in military units. As a society, we need leaders and appoint them, accordingly. This facilitates quick decision-making in times of need. I would like to go more in-depth but I have somewhere to be. Please, let me know if the things I expressed are not true and, if you have any questions, I will be happy to elaborate. Thank you.

  10. robro says

    Stupid bastards…Who says you can’t use the word “Bible” in a book title in any way you want? I guess The JavaScript Bible really threw them for a loop. “How dare they!? This is not the proper way to encode JavaScript objects as ordained by the big boogie in the sky guy.”

  11. FilthyHuman says

    @anthonydavis
    #18

    As a society, we need leaders and appoint them, accordingly.

    And I don’t see any reason why said leaders can’t be women. As long as they’re competent, why not?

  12. Ze Madmax says

    anthonydavis @ #18

    It is evident that man and women were created with inherent competencies;

    Citation needed.

    however, it can be noted there are exceptions but you may have heard it said that we mustn’t make a rule based on an exception.

    Let’s start by establishing whether or not this “rule” is true, before we begin assigning the label of “exception” to anything.

    Feminism tends to distort the facts in it’s effort to promote a fallacious notion of equality.

    Feminism is the radical idea that women are people. I’m not sure what weird straw-ideology you’re suggesting here, but feminism is based on facts.

    The idea of feminism is terribly impractical and challenges the time-proven and effective hierarchy essential to proper functioning of a family.

    You know what else is a “time-proven” and effective hierarchy? The Catholic Church. They’ve managed to survive for over 2000 years. According to your logic, we should all become Catholic. Not to mention that “proper functioning of a family” has nothing to do with the structure of the family, but with the nature of the relationships between family members (and arguably, with society at large).

    We see this same hierarchy at work in military units.

    Because military units are such awesome models for a free society.

    As a society, we need leaders and appoint them, accordingly.

    Unless you’re commenting from North Korea (or a similar totalitarian regime), social leaders are not appointed in the same way military leaders are.

    This facilitates quick decision-making in times of need.

    Except that planning for times of need is often much more efficient than quick decision-making. Yes, there are circumstances in which you just gotta wing it, but for major social emergencies, if there is no predetermined course of action, by the time the shit hits the fan it’s too late to try and cover yourself with a blanket.

    I would like to go more in-depth but I have somewhere to be. Please, let me know if the things I expressed are not true and, if you have any questions, I will be happy to elaborate. Thank you.

    Have fun. The things you expressed are not true. I do have questions!

    a) What are the “inherent competencies” of men and women? How did you determine that they are inherent (which I assume means biological) as opposed to cultural?
    b) What do you mean by “proper functioning of the family”?
    c) How does feminism distort facts? What is a feminist notion of equality, and what is fallacious about it?

  13. kenbo says

    @18

    Anthony, the 19th century called and wants their ideas back.

    Nice Poe, though.

    Kenbo

  14. gravityisjustatheory says

    The idea of feminism is terribly impractical and challenges the time-proven and effective hierarchy essential to proper functioning of a family. We see this same hierarchy at work in military units.

    Apart from the late Gadaffi’s bodyguards, I don’t know of any military unit that follows the heirarchy of “man gives orders, women follow”.

  15. FilthyHuman says

    @Ze Madmax
    #21

    Feminism is the radical idea that women are people. I’m not sure what weird straw-ideology you’re suggesting here, but feminism is based on facts.

    I have a strong suspicion that @anthonydavis may have mistakenly believed that Feminism is the idea that women are the superior gender.

  16. peterh says

    @ #6:

    Certain portions are outright forgeries. Do a search on pseudopigrapha; among the more obvious skunks in the woodpile are I&II Timothy, I&II Peter, and Titus. Searching on “Johanine Comma” will show that the flimsy evidence for trinitarianism was inserted long after the original text was penned. The widely-repeated parable of the woman taken in adultery appears in none of the early manuscripts. Numerous other examples of forgery, interpolation and fraudulent editing can be found. And a study of vocabulary and editorial style will show that many “prophecies” were written many generations after the events they purport to foretell.

  17. David Marjanović says

    The idea of feminism is terribly impractical and challenges the time-proven and effective hierarchy essential to proper functioning of a family.

    Why, then, do more egalitarian families function at least as well as patriarchal ones?

    Or what, if anything, do you mean by “proper”?

    We see this same hierarchy at work in military units.

    So what? Not everything is a military unit.

    As a society, we need leaders and appoint them, accordingly.

    Wrong.

    As a society, we need bureaucrats and diplomats, and we choose them pretty much the same way as any other committee chooses a person for a job.

    Don’t get too obsessed about the concept of “leader”, and think very hard about what you wish for. Last time people wanted a leader over here, they actually got one – he even took “leader” as his official title. In the original language: Führer.

  18. says

    we need leaders

    Gifted individuals who have been trained as experts in Humanist thought and best practices, using collaboratively developed how-to road maps! Yes! We’ll run like a well-oiled machine!

  19. David Marjanović says

    Gifted individuals who have been trained as experts in Humanist thought and best practices, using collaboratively developed how-to road maps! Yes! We’ll run like a well-oiled machine!

    ROTFLMAO!

  20. FilthyHuman says

    @gravityisjustatheory
    #28
    Um…
    “They have no right breast; for while they are yet babies their mothers make red-hot a bronze instrument constructed for this very purpose and apply it to the right breast and cauterize it, so that its growth is arrested, and all its strength and bulk are diverted to the right shoulder and right arm.”

    I’m pretty sure that’s NOT an alternative any sane individual would prefer.

  21. Gregory Greenwood says

    anthonydavis @ 18;

    You want questions? Ok then…

    It is evident that man and women were created with inherent competencies

    Is that so? First, how is it ‘evident’ that human’s were ‘created’ at all? The evidence seems to support our evolution, not our design by a conveniently male creator deity.

    Secondly, other than certain aspects of sexual dimorphism, the notional differences in competency between the genders are actually primarily the result of the social construction of gender and the subsequent conditioning of behaviour, so it is far from ‘evident’ that a person’s competencies are determind by their gender.

    You have made one heck of a big claim there; do you have any scientific evidence to back it up?

    however, it can be noted there are exceptions but you may have heard it said that we mustn’t make a rule based on an exception.

    So, you are going to write off anything and anyone that doesn’t conform to your preconceived notions of the relative capacities of men and women as mere outliers, are you? That doesn’t seem to be a very rational or rigorous approach to me…

    Feminism tends to distort the facts in it’s effort to promote a fallacious notion of equality.

    What supposed ‘facts’ does feminism ‘distort’? On what basis do you claim that the concept of gender equality – that women should be recognised as being every bit as human as men – is ‘fallacious’? I assume that you aren’t seriously arguing that half our species should be viewed as sub-human because they lack penises…

    The idea of feminism is terribly impractical and challenges the time-proven and effective hierarchy essential to proper functioning of a family.

    Why is the recognition of the personhood and fundamental humanity of women, which is a the essence of feminism, ‘impractical’? In what way is it not possible for women to be offered the same opportunites in terms of education and employment as men? I would remind you that the reason why women have been under-represented in the past at the top of the business, scientific and political spheres is because of glass-ceiling discrimination. Take that away, and there is no rational reason to believe that women are anything less than the absolute equals of men.

    As for the ‘proper functioning of the family’, the family unit is a social construct, and one subject to change as social mores develop. There are same sex parentage familes and single parent familes that studies show are perfectly functional. Your idea that social cohesion requires the subjugation of women just doesn’t hold water.

    We see this same hierarchy at work in military units.

    Military hierachies of unquestioning obedience are perhaps the single most dysfunctional model for family life I can imagine.

    As a society, we need leaders and appoint them, accordingly.

    I for ,one, live in a democracy where leaders are elected, not appointed, and there is no reason why those leaders can’t be women. Indeed, women hold positions of political power in many places worldwide, or are the likes of Angela Merkel and Hillary Clinton really men in disguise…?

    Nice satirical post you have here. Now, I take it that this is a crack at the Biblical view of gender but I will respond with a pragmatic argument rather than appealing to special revelation.

    I fail to see the ‘pragmatism’ in your argument. All you have are sweeping assertions that are not only unsupported by evidence, but actively fly in the face of reality itself.

  22. Tony says

    anthonydavis:

    Nice satirical post you have here.

    I’m not certain that was satire. Perhaps you should re-read it.

    Now, I take it that this is a crack at the Biblical view of gender but I will respond with a pragmatic argument rather than appealing to special revelation.

    Yes it was a crack at one religious texts’ treatment of women. For his next trick, I hope PZ takes a crack at that same texts’ treatment of children by ‘the man in the sky’. Oh, and a pragmatic argument for what–the continual mistreatment of women based on 2000 year old goat herders?

    It is evident that man men and women were created with inherent competencies;

    Fixed that for you…
    What are these ‘inherent competencies’? Since you clearly have insight the rest of us don’t, I assume you’re a scientist who has studied the physiology of both genders, so you’re qualified to speak about this…
    Also, who is ‘it’ evident to?

    however, it can be noted there are exceptions but you may have heard it said that we mustn’t make a rule based on an exception. Feminism tends to distort the facts in it’s effort to promote a fallacious notion of equality.

    Ok, I can understand this somewhat. You advocate treating women as second class citizens, subservient to males.
    What ‘facts’ does feminism distort?
    Do you even know what the feminist movement is about? Here, let me give you a starting point:

    http://feminist.org/welcome/index.html

    Feminism n. the policy, practice or advocacy of political, economic, and social equality for women.

    Now that you have this under your belt, simply do a google search for feminism. In the beginning, you’ll want to focus on ‘.org’ or ‘.gov’ or ‘.edu’ sites.

    The idea of feminism is terribly impractical and challenges the time-proven and effective hierarchy essential to proper functioning of a family.

    So political, social, and economic equality for women is impractical? How so? Why do you believe that? What evidence do you have to back up this theory? Please note that no religious text can serve as evidence. There are too many of them. They contradict one another. None of them have been proven to be true (no, “I believe its true in my heart of hearts” doesn’t count).
    I’m really saddened that they still make people like you. Every time I think society is progressing (cf. Maryland allowing gay marriage) I’m reminded that there are people like you who want to continue to oppress others and deny them equality.

    We see this same hierarchy at work in military units.

    And your point is…?

    As a society, we need leaders and appoint them, accordingly. This facilitates quick decision-making in times of need.

    Translation: women are for cooking, cleaning and baby making, not decision making in times of need. That’s the job of the menz.

    I would like to go more in-depth but I have somewhere to be. Please, let me know if the things I expressed are not true and, if you have any questions, I will be happy to elaborate. Thank you.

    Wherever you go, don’t let it be somewhere to procreate. We don’t need more people who want to “be fruitful and multiply”. Especially if the ones sexing it up are going to raise their kids to be as ignorant and misogynistic as you are. I really don’t think anyone will have any questions for you. Any answers you try to give will be variations on stuff we’ve all heard before. Come back to us when you start caring about women as human beings, not as spare ribs.

  23. madbull says

    How does the statement,X is different; provide an argument for discriminating against X ?

    Assuming #18s premises that women are different and made to sit at home unlike men who are made to face the real world is true (an absurd assumption I know, im just going with it)

    How does that assumption give you a right to stop a woman from going out and working if that’s what she wants to do ?

    People so confuse equal rights and equal abilities/character traits , it fkkin pisses me off.

  24. otrame says

    Re anthonydavis @18:

    *gets out industrial-sized bag of popcorn, and the big bottle of red wine, makes sure the panti-liners are properly placed, and warns the family there may be intermittent giggles.

    This going to be fun.

  25. says

    I shall ignore the drive-by moron, seeing as this is far more interesting to comment on:

    No functionality whatsoever
    This reads exactly like a book…if you want access to Revelation…it’s going to take you a long time to get there.

    not having an e-reader I might be wrong about this, but I’m pretty sure that a)the book has an index, and b)the reader has a functionality that allows you to turn to the desired page.
    Thus, this is fucking idiotic, since “a long time” is what, a couple seconds at most?

    Also… just what year does cupcake imagine this to have been written on? it’s not “like” a book, it IS a book.

  26. says

    @18…yes, because Golda Meir and Margaret Thatcher were so girly.

    Asshat. Here’s a porcupine. You don’t need a woman to tell you where to shove it.

  27. Pteryxx says

    Oh, the comments Rebecca picked out are SO worth it!

    Pat Georgia (in reply to a reply to a reply to the above)

    My point was that [Elizabeth Cady Stanton] was “biblically well-read”. Which one is the “REAL BIBLE”? I guess you mean one of the many versions that have been translated and edited by men?

    Linnie Robinson (in reply to above)

    Yes, Pat, Such as the King James version, or the New American Standard. In both versions the Holy Spirit is referred to as “He”, by Jesus. He is the final authority on who and “what” the Holy Spirit is, so I rest my case. And Jesus was a MAN, WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT!

  28. says

    On Amazon you can rate the book if you are willing to write a review by clicking “Create Your Own Review”

    If you DON’T want to write a review there doesn’t seem to be an EASY way to give a rating, but you can do it this way:
    – buy the free book
    – go to Your Account / Your Recommendations
    – under Improve Your Recommendations go to Items You Own
    – rate book

  29. says

    Holy crap, those giving the book a bad review can’t spell. If you can’t spell the word deceiver are you sure you can accurately classify/recognize the true deceivers?

    As for feminists disobeying god’s clear instructions … well, yes. That’s because men writing the bible got about 90% of the life lessons they should have learned twisted or wrong.

    God is one scary dude. He is going to slap those women down.

    Almost sorry I read the comments Jen provided. So depressing. There’s this one:

    And those who have followed feminism are reaping the benefits. They are leading lonely lives and unstable marriages. Their carcasses lay all over the place.

    Well, aren’t you just a little ray of sunshine.

    Excuse me while I go “lay all over the place,” a phrase which conjures up having sex all over the place (that implied direct object when one uses “lay” like that). It would be different if “Their carcasses lie all over the place” or “Their carcasses are lying all over the place.”

    Lie, ladies, lie across that big brass bed. Or, alternatively, fuck lay across that big brass bed if you are a feminist carcass.

  30. lsamaknight says

    @32 My understanding is that this is just Greek propaganda and actual archaeological findings from Scythian/Samartian grave goods from female warriors that were thought to give rise to the legends of the Amazons suggest that it was simply a leather guard worn to keep the breasts out of the way while drawing a bow similar to the chest guards worn by modern female archers when competing (both in western style archery and Japanese kyuudo at the least).

  31. hypatiasdaughter says

    Now, let us, for the purpose of this post, grant anthonydavis’ presupposition that “it is evident that man and women were created with inherent competencies;”.
    This means, anthony, that women have information, skills and abilities superior to men in certain areas of life. Is it then not reasonable and logical, for an optimal outcome, that women should be the leaders and decision makers over men in those areas?
    (Islam believes the same thing and therefore defer to the authority of women in things like childcare (a woman is supposed to get automatic custody until a child is 7 years old) and paternity.)
    I bet you a moldy porcupine that you don’t believe that. People who think like you want men to have complete authority over a woman, even about things they have no competence in.
    Because the most important thing is not the best way to arrange a family but that a man’s every whim is indulged like a spoiled and petulant child even if it is dangerous and harmful to all concerned.

  32. raven says

    Now, let us, for the purpose of this post, grant anthonydavis’ presupposition that “it is evident that man and women were created with inherent competencies;”.

    Why bother. It is pure lies and nonsense.

    There is a vast range of abilities and talents in both men and women.

    To take one example, The average IQ is 100.

    Anthony Davis is clearly stupid. This means most women will be smarter than him. So will most men. And quite a few cats and dogs.

    To take another example. Female marathon runners are common. This is a 29 mile race. All female marathon runners are superior athletes to anyone who can’t run 29 miles. Which includes probably 99% of all men including anthony the moron davis.

    His mistake because he is dumb is assuming all “men” and all “women” are more or less identical. They aren’t.

  33. raven says

    And those who have followed feminism are reaping the benefits. They are leading lonely lives and unstable marriages. Their carcasses lay all over the place.

    That isn’t true.

    Fundie xians have a divorce rate equal to the national average. In their heartland areas it is significantly higher than the national average.

    They also score higher than the national average in any social problem you care to name, poverty, teenage pregnancy, abortion, and child sex abuse.

  34. raven says

    The New York Times > Week in Review > To Avoid Divorce, Move to …
    http://www.nytimes.com › Week in Review

    14 Nov 2004 – If blue states care less about moral values, why are divorce rates so low in the bluest of the blue states? … divorce that found that born-again Christians were just as likely to divorce as those who are not born-again Christians.

    It’s been known for decades that the divorce and teenage pregnancy rates are lower in blue states with few fundie xians compared to the red southern states that are crawling with them.

    What is much higher in fundie families is child sex abuse. That patriarch can do whatever he wants including fuck the kids. Which they do all too often.

  35. raven says

    BTW, ask Sarah Palin, wacko fundie xian role model, how all that works.

    She has two grandchildren. Bristol Palin got pregnant as a teenager to someone she barely knew and is not married.

    Her son knocked up his long time girlfriend and they barely got married before the kid was born.

    Sarah Palin, hero to the morons, is 0/2 with her kids as far as what fundies pretend is desirable. Neither kid went to college.

    None of this was or is any big deal to the fundies. They see it all the time. Quite likely they were conceived out of wedlock to a teenage girl who may or may not be sure who the father is. Routine.

    Normal people plan these things out a lot of the time. Going to college, pursuing careers, meeting their husbands and wives before rather than after their kids are born. If the fundies would ever pay attention during their sex ed classes, they would know how all that happens.

  36. raven says

    Gender Editorials | Colleges’ gender gap – Los Angeles Times

    articles.latimes.com/2010/jan/25/opinion/la-ed-gender25-2010jan25

    Women now outnumber men in both applying to schools and earning degrees. January 25, 2010 … away from college-prep courses, the nation can brag that female students … “What messages are we sending young women that they must …

    In the younger cohorts, women outnumber men in percentage with college degrees by a lot, and in college enrollment. Roughly half of all MD and law school admissions are female. It’s more like 70% for vet school.

    This is what is driving misogynistic trolls like Anthony Davis. About the only talent he is likely better at than many or most women is changing the oil in cars. And these days, who changes their own oil anyway?

  37. raven says

    This is one of the newer studies. It turns out that fundie xians have a higher divorce rate than most other groups.

    It turned out that atheists had one of the lowest divorce rates.

    Study Finds Higher Divorce Rates Among Conservative Christians
    January 27, 2011 newsfamilylaw
    According to the National Center for Health Statistics, the average divorce rate in the United States is 47.9 percent.

    A recent study conducted by University of Iowa sociology professor Jennifer Glass, found that Conservative Christians are among the groups most likely to divorce.

    Presenting her findings at the University of Texas at Austin Glass said, “Politically and religiously conservative states, especially in the Deep South, exhibit higher divorce rates than politically and religiously liberal states in the Northeast and Midwest.”

    Gass identified a number of factors contributing to this statistical reality. She suggested that the prohibition of sex before marriage among Christians leads to marriage at an earlier age, and compared that to lower divorce rates among residents in more liberal and less religious areas who are more likely to live together for extended periods of time.

    Glass also noted that teachings against abortion and birth control lead to “shotgun weddings,” which accelerate young conservative Protestants into adulthood and early marriages. She compared those teen marriages to the average age of marriage for American women, which is 27.



    The study also noted that young married conservatives in southern states have higher divorce rates because of financial concerns and problems relating to lower degrees of education and increased unemployment. continues

  38. doktorzoom says

    It seems only fair to call for an immediate Pharyngulation of the reviews for “The Shooter’s Bible.”

    …Never mind. Second Amendment Jesus is really into firearms anyway.

  39. McCthulhu, now with Techroline and Retsyn says

    When you read the comments about debils and blasfeemy and teh other stupid, you realize it’s only 2012 on the calendar. Back in reality it is still only 1426.

    Fundagelicals are infinitely more frightening than any devil, demon, or spirit that has ever been written to page, with the exceptions of maybe Sauron and Morgoth.

  40. anchor says

    McCthulhu: “Fundagelicals are infinitely more frightening than any devil, demon, or spirit that has ever been written to page, with the exceptions of maybe Sauron and Morgoth.”

    Don’t forget Marduk – always scared the shite out of me.

  41. Russell says

    A synod of female bishops could make an ungodly amount of money by reissuing the magisterial King James as The Queen Henrietta Version

  42. madtom1999 says

    Just to add its available for free at http://www.gutenberg.org/ along with a lot of her other work in a variety of formats that can be read on just about any device – including in html format which should help you to realise that pdf is satans format.

  43. quoderatdemonstrandum says

    I bet you a moldy porcupine that you don’t believe that. People who think like you want men to have complete authority over a woman, even about things they have no competence in.

    Like this?

  44. twist says

    I wonder if those who blame feminism for all that’s wrong with the world and think that all feminists are miserable and alone (not that there’s anything wrong with being alone!) have ever considered why the feminist movements came about in the first place.

    Equality movements tend to arise when those being treated as second class citizens tire of being treated as second class citizens. Women, lots of women, got tired of being told that they were too weak/stupid/fragile/other 19th century stereotype to be able to vote. Women got tired of being told that they didn’t deserve to be paid the same as a man who was doing the same job, and tired of being passed over for promotion, and tired of being harrassed in the workplace. We are tired of being told that we shouldn’t have the right to control our own fertility, and we’re tired of people showing up, in 2012, and telling us that we’re miserable and unhappy because we’ve ignored the natural order of things, as if such a thing existed. I’m sick of hearing that I must be so miserable, because I’m out having a career and a life that I enjoy, rather than spending my time clearning up after some entitled bully who thinks I’m only good for popping out babies and washing his socks. It’s 2012. 2012!

    Why does a family need a leader? What’s wrong with compromise and coming to decisions that everyone can live with? Why should anyone see any attraction in having a bullying tyrant imposing his will on a family, unless of course, they are that bullying tyrant?

    I’d like to laugh at some of those reviews, but then I remember that they’re from real people who actually think like that.

  45. mnb0 says

    That whole “men are different from women” argument works pro-feminism. Any organization that doesn’t make full use of the different male and female skills does itself harm.
    I put that principle in practice too at my school, section maths and physics. Two of my female colleagues organize everything, make sure that everything runs smoothly. They do it better than I ever could and that includes almost all the important decisions. Only if something threatens to go off the rails they turn to me. As a result my section couldn’t run better.

  46. says

    That whole “men are different from women” argument works pro-feminism. Any organization that doesn’t make full use of the different male and female skills does itself harm.

    I put that principle in practice too at my school, section maths and physics. Two of my female colleagues organize everything, make sure that everything runs smoothly. They do it better than I ever could and that includes almost all the important decisions. Only if something threatens to go off the rails they turn to me. As a result my section couldn’t run better.

    Right, because administrative work is a female skill. That’s why women faculty members should of course be expected to take on these tasks. Of course, a man will have to step in to take charge when serious problems are encountered.

    You’ve really got this pro-feminism thing down.

  47. chigau (同じ) says

    mnb0

    Two of my female colleagues organize everything, make sure that everything runs smoothly. They do it better than I ever could and that includes almost all the important decisions.

    Are you quite sure these people are good at organizing because they are women?

  48. 'Tis Himself, OM says

    And these days, who changes their own oil anyway?

    <looks around furtively> Raises hand.

  49. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    And these days, who changes their own oil anyway?

    Moi. That way I can be sure the drain plug, oil cap and the oil filter are in place (all missed on occasion by the local fast change places) prior to starting the car.

  50. ikesolem says

    Are the commentators posing as alpha-chimp masters of their local social groups doing so facetiously or are these their real world-views? I for one am having a hard time sorting this out, but one can be sure that such views still exist in human society (see Saudi Arabia, etc.).

    A far more interesting question is whether or not there is a genetic component to such aggressive, domineering alpha-chimp behavior (and note, if so, it would very likely apply to both sexes, unless one assume a strict Y-chromosome-linkage). I’d personally guess that such behaviors are more learned than inherited, just as one’s native language is – environmental conditioning in childhood being the key factor. However, the fact that such behaviors also exist in chimpanzee groups in the wild does make one wonder – are certain individuals saddled with the genes for alpha-chimp behavior?

    If so, they’d probably gravitate towards authoritarian religious ideologies, right?

  51. ikesolem says

    P.S. I’m guessing that the incidence of aggressive, overbearing control freaks in the general population is equally split, 50-50, among the sexes. At least, that’s my experience – perhaps a study is in order? Could one perhaps find a genetic correlation? (I’d guess no on the genetic correlation, myself).

  52. Richard Smith says

    @Dick the Damned (#2):

    I guess a “The Woman’s Koran” wouldn’t be amiss.

    In many circles, however, it wouldn’t be a hit, either…

  53. Thomathy, Holy Trinity of Conflation: Atheist-Secularist-Darwinist says

    Ikesolem, if you are determined to simplify what are clearly complex social behaviours with complex genetic components in order to ask very idiosyncratic questions that can’t, by virtue of their simplification of complexity, have meaningful answers, surely there’s a better forum than here?

    Otherwise, think before you post and stop reducing human traits (clearly complex social traits, I might add) to some ridiculous ‘alpha-chimp’ analogue, because it makes you seem ignorant of much more than the obvious response to your ridiculous questions. I will hint that the response would not be an answer.

  54. kemist says

    That whole “men are different from women” argument works pro-feminism. Any organization that doesn’t make full use of the different male and female skills does itself harm.

    I put that principle in practice too at my school, section maths and physics. Two of my female colleagues organize everything, make sure that everything runs smoothly. They do it better than I ever could and that includes almost all the important decisions. Only if something threatens to go off the rails they turn to me. As a result my section couldn’t run better.

    Yes, because of course women will be interested in work that is boring to manly men, work where they’ll be somebody’s caring support or shadow, just ’cause they don’t have testicles.

    Newsflash:

    Some women hate, hate, hate administrative, support or organisational work. I’m one of those. I’m one of the most disorganized people I know, and those who know me often comment on it. I don’t particularly like, or have talent for, it. In fact, if you told me it’s my role in life, I would commit suicide right fucking now to avoid the tedious boredom of it. No responsible organization would ever leave me in charge of administrative work if they truly know me.

    It’s your stupid stereotypes, your stupid little boxes where people must absolutely fit, that is extremely harmful to both men and women as well as organizations. Men and women are first and foremost humans, and their tastes and skills vary from person to person rather than following strict gender lines.

    Women. Are. People. Just like you. They have similar tastes, ambitions and desires. Nothing fucking mysterious or alien to it. A second X chromosome does not imbue you with appreciation for cleaning up after people, a taste for pink clothes and high heels and lack of talent in math. It just means your gonads will be better protected than your male counterparts and that you have the machinery to nurture an offspring, but not necessarily the inclination to do so.

  55. Emrysmyrddin says

    Women. Are. People. Just like you. They have similar tastes, ambitions and desires. Nothing fucking mysterious or alien to it. A second X chromosome does not imbue you with appreciation for cleaning up after people, a taste for pink clothes and high heels and lack of talent in math. It just means your gonads will be better protected than your male counterparts and that you have the machinery to nurture an offspring, but not necessarily the inclination to do so.

    QFFT

  56. erdoc says

    Raven@ #50: You must have missed the memo. Sister Sarah isn’t a role model. She’s a cautionary tale: This is what happens what happens when a woman gets a college education (she does actually have a degree) and sets out to have a career (as a sportscaster.) Even if she gets properly married to a manly man, attends the right sort of church, and has a bunch of kids, she’s still unable to resist temptation. She seeks out & allows herself to be put in a position of actual authority over men! The next thing you know, the kids are raising themselves and running wild. If Sister Sarah had stayed in her proper place, her son Track would be a proper career military man and Bristol would be married to a nice ministry student.

  57. Just_A_Lurker says

    Normal people plan these things out a lot of the time. Going to college, pursuing careers, meeting their husbands and wives before rather than after their kids are born.

    Ugh. Doesn’t anyone think about the people excluded and decidedly “unnormal” by these definitions?

  58. sadunlap says

    I realize I’m joining the thread late so apologies is this is redundant with other posts:

    What were the good Christians expecting anyway in a book called The Woman’s Bible? Recipes in between the massacres? How to wash blood out of the sack-cloth without making a mess of the ashes? The proper way to make a center-piece out of a severed human head? I mean really, what were they thinking, biblical Ladies Home Journal?! Have they ever read the actual bible-Bible?

  59. says

    Women. Are. People. Just like you. They have similar tastes, ambitions and desires. Nothing fucking mysterious or alien to it. A second X chromosome does not imbue you with appreciation for cleaning up after people, a taste for pink clothes and high heels and lack of talent in math. It just means your gonads will be better protected than your male counterparts and that you have the machinery to nurture an offspring, but not necessarily the inclination to do so.

    QFT!

  60. says

    And another thing: I am so tired of religionists connecting almost every bad thing or evil in the world with femaleness. Just wrote a post on my blog about a WTF moment I had upon hearing Mitch Daniels remarks following the tornado disaster in Indiana yesterday. Seriously, WTF?

  61. says

    Mnbo, no, it does not “work pro-feminism.” Any ideology that promotes the scientifically unsound idea that there are “male skills” and “female skills” hurts feminism and hurts real people.

    There are plenty of men who are perfectly fine at organization, even if you’re not. Shunting that job off onto women, with a caveat to call in teh menz if they need authoritative backup, is sexist as all hell.

    Just_A_Lurker, it’s a comment from Raven. Adjust your expectations accordingly.

  62. says

    QFT!

    In my household, we run things by consensus. We *do* have something called “lifeboat rules,” however, in case there is some sort of disaster that requires one leader. If it’s a military-type situation, dh is in charge; if it’s a medical emergency, I am.

    I added my positive review to amazon, also.

    Cathy F

  63. says

    Unfortunately my “Linux Command Line and Shell Scripting BIBLE” does come with a bible quote Colossians 2:3 and an acknowledgement to God and Jesus Christ for making all things possible.

  64. Hairy Chris, blah blah blah etc says

    My Lotus Domino Bible didn’t. Maybe it’s because Domino is the work of the devil. Who knows?

  65. echidna says

    In my household, we run things by consensus. We *do* have something called “lifeboat rules,” however, in case there is some sort of disaster that requires one leader. If it’s a military-type situation, dh is in charge; if it’s a medical emergency, I am.
    .

    Interesting that your dh is in the military. This was how John Monash (Australian WWI general) ran things – very forward for his time.

  66. cowalker says

    kemist says:
    3 March 2012 at 2:21 pm

    Women. Are. People. Just like you. They have similar tastes, ambitions and desires. Nothing fucking mysterious or alien to it. A second X chromosome does not imbue you with appreciation for cleaning up after people, a taste for pink clothes and high heels and lack of talent in math. It just means your gonads will be better protected than your male counterparts and that you have the machinery to nurture an offspring, but not necessarily the inclination to do so.

    Can we just have this entered as an amendment to the Constitution? Or at least can we have it tatooed onto the rump of anyone who labels or approves the labelling of a woman who is comfortable discussing birth control pills as a “slut?”

  67. paulburnett says

    #30 SC “Yes! We’ll run like a well-oiled machine!”

    Just as Mussolini made the trains run on time! (Or does that count as a semi-Godwin?)

  68. paulburnett says

    #53 raven “A recent study conducted by University of Iowa sociology professor Jennifer Glass, found that Conservative Christians are among the groups most likely to divorce.”

    I probably don’t even need to mention the serial adulterer Conservative Christian – who has been divorced twice – who is running (poorly) for president.

  69. says

    Unfortunately my “Linux Command Line and Shell Scripting BIBLE” does come with a bible quote Colossians 2:3 and an acknowledgement to God and Jesus Christ for making all things possible.

    Well, I’ve been know to leave
    #die "Job 38:11";
    commented out in more than one Perl script, after using it for debugging purposes. It seemed appropriate.

    And I wouldn’t be against posting Deuteronomy 23:12-13 throughout the Peak District. Not everything in the Bible is necessarily bad :)