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Nov 06 2011

Episode CCLXX: Just like heaven

Just because I love The Cure.

(Episode CCLXIX: My sermon.)

695 comments

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  1. 501
    SQB

    On CSI: here is an interesting picture from a WikiPedian’s user space.

  2. 502
    SQB

    White Heat by Nic Endo.

  3. 503
    Alethea Kuiper-Belt

    Why the doctor is better than Jebus: http://unholyoffice.blogspot.com/2011/06/jesus-vs-dr-who.html

  4. 504
    Birger Johansson

    Esteleth: “Well, A.R., I do have a dyke reputation to uphold. If I don’t bag at least 6 sets of testicles (must be human) a month, they revoke my Rainbow merit badge”

    Check out Richard Corben’s satirical graphic novel “Bodyssey” that pokes fun at various sword & sorcery tropes (the original non-censored version). When the dim-witted hero walks into a camp of amazons he is in for a rude surprise…

    — — — —
    “So officially, there is no drug problem in Japan, it’s all invented by foreigners who want to make the country look bad or something…”

    Blaming crimes on foreigners was taken to a ridiculous extreme when the Japanese government suggested the development of forensic DNA techniques to identify the DNA of foreigners, as the non-Japanese are supposed to be the bad guys. There is absolutely no typical “japanese” genome but since scientists in Japan are dependent on politicians for their jobs no one dared call them on the bullshit.

  5. 505
    Birger Johansson

    “He deliberately dumbed his speech down to disguise his Yale almost-education.”

    My favourite is “It is a struggle between good and it is a struggle between evil”.

  6. 506
    Carlie

    tiktaalik – yes.

  7. 507
    SQB

    Wow, that looks like a YouTube account that’s not going to last:

    Slayer – Reign In Blood
    The Mars Volta – Frances The Mute
    Isis – Panopticon

    Yes, those are the full albums.

  8. 508
    A. R

    First Approximation: That was the chart I was thinking of, not sure why I thought it was CDC though.

  9. 509
    Algernon

    But I want stuff where taking it once in a while doesn’t carry a high risk of leaving permanent damage.

    The drugs I’m prescribed legally have a risk of permanent damage.

    Not taking them has a risk of permanent damage.

  10. 510
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Algernon

    The drugs I’m prescribed legally have a risk of permanent damage

    Yes, and that is precisely the reason why you’re prescribed them, and not able to buy them freely after your doc told you what to take*.
    That’s why I asked those two questions nobody has answered.
    What about prescription drugs, what about product safety?

    *I am aware that, if you screw up, most medication you can buy freely is dangerous and that there are always chances of you being that 1 in a million person with serious adverse effects

  11. 511
    Algernon

    Personally I care less about what stops people from making meth in their shacks and more about what stops people’s lives from being destroyed because they went through a period of addiction either to a substance or activity (don’t forget the sex addicts and whatnot, they’re out there killing themselves and destroying other people’s lives too).

    The only way to begin to lift the stigma is to begin to take the real risk from the rest of society away for users. You won’t stop people from using, and you won’t stop people from hurting themselves and others with addictions. Ever. It’s a human problem. You won’t stop people from being depressed either. But you can help to reduce the stigma, and help provide avenues for people who have the problem.

    So long as we have this magical thinking where the drug has this power to just totally remove all accountability from the user after contact with the drug (let’s go after the dealers, stop the Satan-scourge before it infects us) paired with this ridiculous punitive system that paradoxically makes these “helpless victims of evil drugs” into criminals we’re going to have the same fucked upness that we do with all of the laws and social ideas that basically have logically incongruous foundations.

  12. 512
    ad hominum salvator ॐ

    This is not some young kid who is quietly going about his own business.

    He is a 40-50 year old repeat offender who was making and selling poison to young adults.

    Just because he didn’t hit them he should get a pass?

    Well, I don’t believe that there’s anything inherently wrong with making and selling methamphetamine, so I wouldn’t use the phrase “get a pass”. People don’t “get a pass” for doing nothing wrong, and so far as you’ve described it, this guy did absolutely nothing wrong.

    I thought when you said “predatory sociopath” that has some kind of implied meaning, but apparently it does not for you.

    Government creates jobs by ensuring an opportunity for markup at each stage of sale, and actively stifling some portion of the competition. You expect that someone who takes this up as a long term career must necessarily be a sociopath? No.

    That’s exactly as irrational as believing that everyone who makes a lifetime career of Wall Street is a sociopath.

  13. 513
    Algernon

    Yes, and that is precisely the reason why you’re prescribed them, and not able to buy them freely after your doc told you what to take*

    And yet that has never stopped the people I know who are addicted to them from finding crooked doctors.

  14. 514
    Algernon

    Not only crooked doctors, but from lying and manipulating multiple doctors in order to get what they want.

    So long as you don’t use insurance and are careful about pharmacies you can get away with a lot.

    Who will stop them from abusing these drugs, some of which are essentially the exact same drug as meth?

  15. 515
    Algernon

    Hell, people will fucking mutilate themselves a little to get drugs from the ER.

    This is the exact same problem as the people who are addicted to street drugs have though.

    Quality control, now there’s another issue that has been brought up. One of the scariest things about street drugs is that people have no way of knowing what they’re really getting and therefore how to use it appropriately.

    Meh… I feel like I should say for posterity that growing up and being so close to drugs all my life made it easy not to use them. I think it’s harder even for people who are kept in the dark or exposed only to programs like D.A.R.E. which are so obviously manipulative they almost pitch the drug to you.

  16. 516
    Kevin, 友好火猫 (Friendly Fire Cat)

    I had a lovely weekend with my family, had a few swift heart attacks when they kept trying to coax my kitten out of the bed – was worried they’d spot one of the shoe boxes under there and ask “Hey [not Kat], why are there sexy high heels under your bed?”

    If they noticed, no one asked.

    We went to the National Geographic museum and saw the awesome and amazing Anglo-Saxon hoard there, those pieces were amazing – the gold filigree was almost like it was made of thin threads! The garnets were beautiful. I recommend it for anyone in DC.

    We then went to the Freer gallery, and had lunch, and then went home and ordered big pizzas and played games.

    It was a fun time, for sure :)

  17. 517
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Katherine:

    That sounds like a really wondeful family weekend. Are you adopting?

  18. 518
    ad hominum salvator ॐ

    As for product safety:

    how is it currently accomplished with alcohol?

    Do that.

    +++++
    At this time, there is no significant secondary market for alcohol produced by amateurs priced in competition with the large brands.

    People don’t make their own alcohol just to get it cheaper than they can buy it at the store.

    Similar regulatory models can favor those companies which produce any other drug in bulk.

  19. 519
    opposablethumbs

    And in other news that will come as a great surprise to precisely nobody (apologies if someone’s already posted this):

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/revealed-publisher-owned-by-the-catholic-church-sells-pornography-6257572.html

  20. 520
    ad hominum salvator ॐ

    I don’t think it’s necessarily unreasonable to insist that the use of certain drugs must be monitored by a physician, as long as such medical visits are subsidized so that the requirements cannot be used in conservative areas to bankrupt people as punishment for addiction. If, for instance, police can demand that drug users produce proof of being under a physician’s care for the drug in question, and follow up to require those without to get their paperwork in order, this is probably reasonable.

  21. 521
    Kevin, 友好火猫 (Friendly Fire Cat)

    @Og:

    Well, keep in mind my family is filled entirely with Christian Fundamentalists.

  22. 522
    ad hominum salvator ॐ

    (think proof of automobile insurance)

    Theoretically there is nothing wrong with shutting down and fining the owners of unlicensed production facilities. Of course as a practical question such an approach must be monitored for effectiveness and weighed against other approaches, not simply pursued as a matter of What Must Be Done.

  23. 523
    theophontes, feu d'artifice du cosmopolitisme

    @ sandiseattle

    Fatdog Linux, the 64 bit version of Puppy.

    Puppy Linux, 100% god-free fun on a stick. {downloading}

    @ Brownian

    Everyone else who’s ever bought drugs: did you do it accidentally?

    There I was, standing in a coffee shop, looking at the menu. Kinda tired of “Arabica”, “Robusta” … so I ordered “Northern Lights” … I think ….maybe…

    @ Tethys

    Meth and heroin though? I think the dangers of addiction and resulting social costs far out-weigh any utility they may have for recreational use.

    At the end of the day, the state has a miserable record for playing nanny ito drugs policy. The Dutch (in my day, you might ask SQB for an update), not only adopted a “doogbeleid” (policy of tolerance) to drug users, but actually handed out FREE meth. The result: Heroin/Meth users are ageing. The youth grew up seeing them at the free meth caravans at all the stations in main cities (“perron nul”, “platform zero”) and decided they did not want to end up like that. It goes beyond tolerance, to complete openness about drugs.

    [Walton discussing drugs.]
    Why is there so much more common sense, on the issue of drug policy, in young Walton’s mind than in the entire US administration? Kudos.

    ………………….

    [World class architects in Third World countries]
    Tonight we present the architectural guru Hassan Fathy. Linky.

  24. 524
    sayamika

    Most of the meth users I’ve treated have other mental health issues, most commonly PTSD and depression. I don’t know which is the chicken and which is the egg, but yeah, the stigma is probably not helpful for recovery.

  25. 525
    Walton

    Why is there so much more common sense, on the issue of drug policy, in young Walton’s mind than in the entire US administration? Kudos.

    Well, a great many people have an incentive to stick with the current paradigm. There’s an enormous law-enforcement and correctional industry (much of the latter now farmed out to private prison contractors) which has a direct vested interest in continuing the “War on Drugs”, and lobbies to keep it going. And politicians know that the “tough on crime” / “blame and punish” routine tends to go down well with the voters, whereas actual evidence-based policy doesn’t.*

    (*Which is the root of the problem with democracy. Not that I have a better solution right now.)

  26. 526
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    Spread Anarchy

  27. 527
    A. R

    theophontes: That approach to drug control actually makes much more sense than some of the others proposed above. It also has the advantage of quality control. Of course that is far too liberal for the U.S.

  28. 528
    Krasnaya Koshka

    I was a meth addict for 8 years and it was miserable. I always managed to keep a job and pay for a nice place but I was suicidal the entire time. I went to the Nut Hut twice, in that period.

    I did have a standard of conduct for myself. I would never buy drugs, but I had a nice place and so friends with drugs came to me. It was all messed up and I kept wishing my landlady would boot me out so I’d have to restart my life. She didn’t, because I kept paying my rent.

    I finally stopped paying rent, she evicted me and that was the last time I did drugs. That was 11 years ago.

    But this is not what I came here to talk about.

    I’m an American living in Russia and I LOVE Russia! Except I’m starving for English conversation. My Russian skills are amazing in vocabulary and horrible in grammar. So I can’t speak worth a damn.

    My gf (who is staunchly and sexily super Russian) has a very tender heart, but she tends not to think things through. She’s one of the ten top construction supervisors in Saint Petersburg. Currently, she’s featured on billboards for Petrovich, the stroimarket (construction store). She’s a dynamo and was the Soviet women’s champion rower for 15 years. Hot, I know.

    Okay, I am not as dynamic. I teach English here and I love it.

    My problem is: Nikol (my gf) recently hired a Tajiki woman (the wife of one of her many workers) to clean up our apartment, every other day. This is no problem for Nikol because she’s never home (right now she’s in Cape Verde on an all expenses paid trip–she’s also a famous travel photographer, in Eastern Europe) so I have to deal with this new cleaner on my own.

    We never needed a housekeeper. Russian flats are tiny. Nikol only opened the position because her worker’s wife wanted a job. So I spend a lot of time now being messy as possible. The Tajiki woman herself is not a problem, except that I don’t know how to deal with her. We both speak broken Russian and when I’ve asked her name she holds her hand up and shakes her head gravely. Like I’ve insulted her terribly.

    She brings her three year old son, Akbar, and she asked me today to teach him English. That made me happy but otherwise? I have classes in the early mornings and classes in the evenings. She’s there smack dab in the middle.

    I know if I say something to Nikol she’ll fire her out of love for me. I don’t want this woman fired, I just want to know how I can better approach her. She is heavily Muslim. She had a HUGE problem with the fact that I wear boxers. I’ve worn boxers for 25 years. I hate women’s underwear and all the elastic involved.

    I think I’m just venting. I have no one to vent to, really. So, if you’ve read this, thank you.

  29. 529
    ad hominum salvator ॐ

    Puppy Linux, 100% god-free fun on a stick. {downloading}

    is there an Atheix yet and if not why not

  30. 530
    pelamun, the Linguist of Doom

    rorschach,

    we discussed the news of Ireland closing its Vatican embassy at length

  31. 531
    ad hominum salvator ॐ

    *Which is the root of the problem with humanity. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.**

    **What if there was a screen and headphones inside the voting booth so you could watch political advertisements at the last minute?***

    ***What if you showed accurate and yummy graphs with a handsome voiceover? Certain win.

  32. 532
    theophontes, feu d'artifice du cosmopolitisme

    @ Walton

    Which is the root of the problem with democracy. Not that I have a better solution right now.

    Democracies (as you noted above) can be highly iniquitous. And monarchies, through their inherent lack of accountability fare no better. Which is why I would favour a very pragmatic form of Republic (no,no not teh Rethuglians) run on a human rights based constitution.

    Number one point is perhaps to remove “In god we trust” and replace it with “in well researched, scientific and efficacious policies we trust.” We really don’t lack case studies or empirical evidence as to what does and does not work.

    I would be fascinated to hear how your ideas are received in real life (as opposed to TET) America. Keep us updated.

    (Kinda glancing to the above: I once heard on the beeb about a (coal?) mine that was being closed down by management as not profitable. The workers managed to take it over and actually hire their own administrators/management staff (as staff… you see where I am going) and made a success of it. This whole Obama birther thing is crazy. We should hire top rate government and policy people from wherever in the world we could hire them (fuck nationality). This is not a new idea.

  33. 533
    pelamun, the Linguist of Doom

    theophontes,

    Thanks. Not knowing much of African architecture, I basically only know about the Great Mosque of Djenné.

    Please keep them coming.

  34. 534
    Birger Johansson

    Meth: Lee Child’s 14th Jack Reacher novel brings up some of the historical background to meth manufacture, back when bomber crews were seen as just expendable cannon fodder that needed to be kept going without sleep.

    61 Hours: A Jack Reacher Novel http://www.amazon.com/61-Hours-Reacher-Novel-Jack/dp/0440243696/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1320678453&sr=8-1
    — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — —
    I think Bucky Katt, the feline in Get Fuzzy is channelling both Deepak Chopra and Sarah Palin http://www.gocomics.com/getfuzzy/2011/11/04 The Monday 7th entry is also good.

  35. 535
    ad hominum salvator ॐ

    I don’t want to place people at higher risk than nature imposes.

    Just dunno if prohibitionists understand what animals will do.

    I think this notion of busting the large distributors is flawed. The worst shit happens at unsupervised drug houses. If you have state- or municipal-owned drug houses where the cops are guaranteed a walk around, like they can at markets, that allows for people leaving scary drug houses and going somewhere safe. There would be an attempt by large corporations to offer privately-policed drug houses. That’s probably ok.

    We’re probably in a much less safe world right now than one where Walmart stocks their own generic brand alongside the Merck tweak.

  36. 536
    theophontes, feu d'artifice du cosmopolitisme

    @ AR

    Of course that is far too liberal for the U.S.

    Politically yes, but I am only referring to tried and tested (not just in The Netherlands) policies wrt drugs and treatment of drug users. As Walton points out, the whole security industry (and lobby) desperately need a non-solution to remain in business (analogous to Satan/Sin for the church). This is not good way to move forward.

    @ AHS aka SG

    is there an Atheix yet and if not why not

    Ubuntu (Mark Shuttleworth) and Puppy (Barry Kauler) are both driven by atheists (IIRC). Strangely, there is both a muslim and xtian version of Ubuntu ( “Ubuntu Muslim Edition” and “Ubuntu Christian Edition” respectively). On the positive side there is an Ubuntu Satanic Edition (Necrophiliac Necromancer) version 666.10.

    Puppy Linux is named after a dead doG.

  37. 537
    ad hominum salvator ॐ

    Everyone else who’s ever bought drugs: did you do it accidentally?

    I’ve accidentally bought the wrong drugs, if that counts.

  38. 538
    ad hominum salvator ॐ

    Not to mention http://www.jewbuntu.com/

    Ubuntu (Mark Shuttleworth) and Puppy (Barry Kauler) are both driven by atheists (IIRC).

    It shouldn’t be a matter of RC, though. It should be advertised as the organizing principle of the product. If the Abrahamics have their own Linux, what are we waiting for?

  39. 539
    Algernon

    Krasnaya Koshka, wow. You are a very interesting person! I don’t have any useful advice. I’m sorry. What is the woman’s primary language? I’m also not quite sure I understand what the issue is? That the lessons with the child are at a bad time for you? Or just that it is hard to deal with all the cultural difference? You said this woman’s husband is also hired by your gf? Maybe some one could talk to him if his wife has trouble understanding.

  40. 540
    theophontes, feu d'artifice du cosmopolitisme

    @ Pelamun

    Some more (at least locally) famous architects from Africa (links follow):

    Pancho Guedes, Maputo.
    Joe Noero, Jo’burg.
    Gawie Fagan, Cape Town.

    (You might notice a modernist / Fathy influence here and there.)

    @ AHS aka SG

    The different versions of Ubuntu referred to (including Jewbuntu) are all under the umbrella of Canonical, which is owned by Mark Shuttleworth who is a low key atheist (and high key humanist). If you mean a dedicated Atheibuntu, I think that would be a waaay cool idea. (Though you do get Edubuntu, which is very much reality based, already.) Check out this FTB linky too.

  41. 541
    theophontes, feu d'artifice du cosmopolitisme

    Ooops, borked Linky.

  42. 542
    Anthony K

    Or is that the reason why most of you get drunk once in a while?

    That’s why I used to get drunk “once in awhile” (where “once in awhile” was more often than many people wash their hair). I’m an affable, sociable, happy drunk, and I can carry on a good conversation with people much more sober than I. Passing out buzzed and happy beat not sleeping because of overwhelming anxiety and suicidal ideation any day of the week. Therapy helped with the latter, but I was pretty shattered for awhile.

    I don’t know that the booze and drugs were necessary, but the kind of social interaction I knew I could find at the sorts of easy-going pubs I like to frequent was.

    I’ve accidentally bought the wrong drugs, if that counts.

    So have I.

    “Shit! Bought the wrong salve. This stuff won’t help my rash at all!”

  43. 543
    Walton

    Krasnaya Koshka

    Red Kitty? (Or are my few words of Russian failing me?)

  44. 544
    ad hominum salvator ॐ

    BTW, law-enforcement never did any harm to my cousin, because drug use isn’t illegal in Germany. Didn’t help him much. Still a schizophrenic ex-addict who has to take medication all his life to keep him from harming himself and others.
    So, what I want is a way to change that situation. And so far the argument “just legalize and regulate it” isn’t very convincing for me.

    Law enforcement in Germany whatever it be does not relate to the fact that it causes great harm in other nations. It almost certainly did help your cousin that Germany is what it is; consider the same person in the USA. Do you think it’d be better for someone to have spent more time in jail or hiding from police?

    To say “an environment with not-X did not help” is a one-dimensional comparison with its inverse: “compared to an environment with X”. If one is preferable on your grounds then it does help to live with not-X.

    Is there any world you can imagine that is significantly better for this person and how would that world be different from one of legalization?

  45. 545
    Anthony K

    Arrrgh! Fucking flu shot season. Brings out the anti-vaxxer in my coworkers. My public health coworkers.

    I have to be really cautious. I accidentally unleashed the Brownian on one of my previous coworkers. To be fair, he was an idiot, but I probably shouldn’t have written as much in an email to him with others in the CC box.

    [Chanting] Serenity now. Serenity now. Serenity now. Serenitynow. Serenitynow. SerenitynowserenitynowserenitynowSERENITYNOW!

  46. 546
    Predator Handshake

    Ugh, Brownian, I’ve recently had a run-in with anti-vaxxers myself. It was a woman I had been dating and I was trying so hard to ignore the new agey things she kept saying- talking about “her reality” and thanking The Universe when she successfully manifested things she wanted (but not thanking The Craigslist when she found a new apartment).

    The last straw was when she questioned the necessity of the HPV vaccine which set the conversation off on vaccines in general, and I asked if she had ever been worried about polio. She said she hadn’t, but only because if she happened to get polio her herbologist would take care of it for her, because her herbologist is on the same spirit-level as her body or something. I questioned the credentials of this herbologist and she did not take kindly to that at all, but I’m glad we came to that sort of disagreement this early in the relationship.

  47. 547
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Ugh anti-vaxxers, ugh ugh ugh

    Still remember the ones I ran into several months ago. I was baby-sitting a friend’s adorable 6 month old. She was fussy, as earlier that day she’d been to the pediatrician and gotten her vaccinations. I took her to the farmer’s market and ran into a couple with a baby similarly aged. We chatted briefly, and they said that the one with me seemed fussy and laughed about “ah, that phase!” and all that. I said yeah, getting shots is no fun even when you’re an adult, but of course you gotta do it.

    Cue rant about OMG toxins and OMG autism and OMG teh ebil gubmint.

    It took all my willpower to not slap them. As it was, I coldly said something about how healthy is good and how the autism-vaccine “connection” is a load of hooey and stormed off. And, of course, I’m still steaming over it months later.

  48. 548
    theophontes, feu d'artifice du cosmopolitisme

    she successfully manifested things she wanted

    How does this “manifesting” thing even work? Just imagine what you want and it gets poofed into existence? Maybe “manifestation” is only for trust fund babies that whine about what they want…

  49. 549
    Predator Handshake

    How does this “manifesting” thing even work? Just imagine what you want and it gets poofed into existence? Maybe “manifestation” is only for trust fund babies that whine about what they want…”

    From what I could tell, you’ve got it right. She thinks space is a conscious entity that cares about what we want and can be cajoled into giving it to us.

  50. 550
    ad hominum salvator ॐ

    The problem with this study is that it is correlational. There is no way of knowing if use of cannabis led to the early onset of psychotic illness, or if those with a predisposition for psychotic illness are more likely to self-medicate with cannabis.

    Wait a minute, cmv.

    Everybody in this analysis had a psychotic illness. The cannabis users just tended to have an earlier onset.

    I don’t see what part your objection even applies to. There’s a population of people with psychotic illnesses who did not self-medicate with cannabis and their symptoms tend to develop later.

    To make your statement work we can postulate more of those with a predisposition for an earlier onset for some reason flock to cannabis, than those with predisposition for a later onset (or no predisposition for psychosis at all, which inspires the question of what caused the psychosis). But it sniffs of multiplying entities.

  51. 551
    Anthony K

    It’s just a little FFS! when a recent graduate from the school of public health at the university here says he’s not going to get a vaccine because he’s afraid it will weaken his immune system, when I know that little piece of stupid isn’t being taught there.

    Between this and yet another infestation of MRAs, I’m about a jerrycan away from cleansing the planet with fire.

  52. 552
    theophontes, feu d'artifice du cosmopolitisme

    Just getting back on topic (OP), here is the French version of The Cure:

    Indochine – 3eme sex

    &

    Indochine – Ladyboy

  53. 553
    ad hominum salvator ॐ

    Wowbagger: Then you probably weren’t using methamphetamine, as that particular drug has been known to cause addiction with fewer than three doses.

    Oh wow I missed this earlier. This is not English. What is an addiction with three doses?

  54. 554
    ChasCPeterson

    People don’t make their own alcohol just to get it cheaper than they can buy it at the store.

    They do in (almost heaven) West Virginia.

  55. 555
    Anthony K

    So, on the topic of The Cure, they’re pretty much my favorite band (bred for their skills in magic). Is there more to the sad, mopey Goth thing than Robert Smith’s hair and makeup? Though I didn’t know of them until about Grade 9, I had a friend with an older brother and an extensive CD collection, and I’d listened to most of their stuff from inception on to Wish, which came out when I was in high school. And I had no idea they were a ‘Goth’ band until I came online (though in retrospect, it explains some of the weirder conversations I’d had as a teen).

    Sure, some of their songs are dark. Hell, they wrote songs about characters by Camus. But lots of songs by other bands are dark. I also listened to The Smiths and Depeche Mode around that time, but nobody joking asks to see the scars on your arm if you admit to being a fan of them.

    Even Smith himself is a a bit of a sweet, romantic naïf, much like PZ sometimes paints himself. “Just Like Heaven” is about the emotions he felt on a trip to Beachy Head with his then girlfriend, who he’s been married to since 1988. The girl in the video is her, and lots of the footage is from Beachy Head. How sweet is that?

    What’s the deal?

  56. 556
    ChasCPeterson

    oops. inadvertent embed.

    Trying an experiment:
    http://www.whatisdeepfried.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/psychosanta.gif

  57. 557
    Anthony K

    What is an addiction with three doses?

    Fucking can be addicting without ever having had a single dose. Fucks up lives irreparably, too.

    But I’d heard the same things about crack, back in the day.

  58. 558
    Toasted Rye

    I am typically a lurker here. I read the comments and rarely comment myself. I wanted to interject for a bit with a thank you to both PZ and the commentariate for opening my eyes to some personal cognitive dissonence over the years. If it weren’t for the regular posts I read here on feminism I may have never come to terms with what happened to me as a child. I have for a long time now considered oral sex to be sex and forced oral sex to be rape. Somehow I never applied that definition to what my stepfather did to me. I can blame a lot of things like the dare officer who I asked what rape meant to learn that I wasn’t raped or that I somehow wanted to hold on to, something like at least the fucker didn’t rape me. This site as well as others on ftb have taught me to think differently about how to apply these definitions. Reading the stories from commenters have taught me that it is not only ok to apply the new definitions to myself but that when I didn’t I trivialized what happened. So thank you pharyngula and ftb and all its regulars for your perspectives. They do help.

  59. 559
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    Between this and yet another infestation of MRAs, I’m about a jerrycan away from cleansing the planet with fire.

    That is one big jerrycan.

  60. 560
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    I accidentally unleashed the Brownian on one of my previous coworkers.

    Humm.

    Really trying to avoid a tasteless German Porn joke here.

    oooops too late

  61. 561
    Carlie

    Toasted Rye – welcome and feel free to talk whenever you want. I don’t know if the thinking you’re mentioning is a recent development or old news now, but please take care of yourself and go see a therapist a few times if you think you need it; that’s a lot to have to deal with.

  62. 562
    Carlie

    she successfully manifested things she wanted

    I wanted a soda, and a few minutes ago I successfully manifested it! All I had to do was walk downstairs and put some money in a machine and push a button.

  63. 563
    Predator Handshake

    All I wanted was a Pepsi, just one Pepsi, and the universe wouldn’t give it to me!

  64. 564
    Ing

    Work is remaining nightmareish for reasons I probably shouldn’t say. Anyone have any advice on keeping up self esteem or building it in face of a vampiric and abusive environment?

  65. 565
    chigau (違う)

    I want to stop coughing.
    In order for this to manifest I will hafta get dressed, go to the pharmacy and pay for some cough suppressant.
    Up yours, universe.

  66. 566
    Rey Fox

    I also listened to The Smiths and Depeche Mode around that time, but nobody joking asks to see the scars on your arm if you admit to being a fan of them.

    No, the Smiths are the canonical mopey-sad band. The Cure at least did “The Lovecats”.

    All I wanted was a Pepsi, just one Pepsi, and the universe wouldn’t give it to me!

    There’s this story I once heard about a man in a flood…

  67. 567
    Benjamin "Derp" Geiger

    chigau:

    If you hear a rattling noise, it’s cough drops falling out of your USB port. I’ve got a bag of ‘em. (Apparently I chapped my palate somehow, and I’ve been coughing ever since. Things have been getting better, though: it doesn’t feel like I’m going to cough up a lung every morning.)

    ####

    Hypothetical no more.

    Not only did the ‘board’ kick EllenBeth Wachs and John Kieffer out of the President and VP positions, they revoked membership.

    Why? Ed Gollobith (“Ed Golly”) is upset that the organization’s funds are going toward pursuing a lawsuit, and not toward buying his building. I kid you not.

    I need to see whether there are laws against conflicts of interest in the Florida statutes. Then again, Tricky Ricky is our governor, so I doubt they’ll be enforced…

  68. 568
    cicely

    Welcome in, Toasted Rye. :)
    -
    The universe has steadfastly refused to manifest me a new pair of knees. Stupid universe.
    -

    Anyone have any advice on keeping up self esteem or building it in face of a vampiric and abusive environment?

    The only thing that ever worked for me was avoidance and evasion of the vampires and their environs. Less than helpful, I know.
    -

  69. 569
    Predator Handshake

    Ing, there’s bound to be some stuff in Twilight about dealing with abusive vampires.

    Joking aside, I had a coworker about a year ago who decided he was my boss because my real boss wanted him to give me guidance when we were trying to develop a protocol for native PAGE experiments. I had other responsibilities at the time yet he would constantly come into the lab while I was clearly working on something else and tell me to make up solutions for him, as if mixing things was beneath him or something. We found out later that his plan seemed to be for me to do all the work and his name to end up in the authors list, with an acknowledgement kindly bequeathed to me.

    Anyway, one day he went to my PI to complain that I wasn’t fulfilling the duties he had assumed were mine, when my PI was already aware that I was working on something else that day. My PI told him to just get the stuff ready himself and he found that he didn’t actually know how the PAGE system worked. My PI told him that if that’s how he wanted things to go, I would get put down as second author and he would be acknowledged for providing freezer space for DNA ladders. He begrudgingly went to work making up buffers after that.

    I’m sure your problem is much worse than mine but I hope the story was at least amusing in some way.

  70. 570
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Predator, I’ve seen shit like that go down.

    The most egregious one featured a post-doc (male) insisting that a graduate student (female) do all of his grunt work. Because she didn’t have a Ph.D. project of her own to do, of course, and her job was to be his assistant.

    That’s totally what the PI meant in telling them to collaborate on [project], amirite?

  71. 571
    ChasCPeterson

    Would you like to know my opinion about The Cure, The Smiths, and their ilk?

    No?

    I know the feeling.

  72. 572
    Predator Handshake

    Yeah, I think I was lucky in my case because one of my main job functions is doing the primary cell culture that provides cells for pretty much everything else that we do in the lab. When it came down to PAGE or cell isolation, cells got priority every time.

  73. 573
    Carlie

    All I wanted was a Pepsi, just one Pepsi, and the universe wouldn’t give it to me!

    Terribly sorry, that’s the one I took.

  74. 574
    Algernon

    All I wanted was a Pepsi, just one Pepsi, and the universe wouldn’t give it to me!

    I really hope I am not the only person who is now thinking of Suicidal Tendencies.

  75. 575
    Inaji

    Apropos to the Being a woman on the net thread, I’m sitting here trying to wake up when Mister comes in with a piece of mail for me. I didn’t recognize the return name right away, and Mister, being aware of some threats I’ve received lately, was hovering all over me, looking like he was gonna call the bomb squad or something. (I love him.)

    Anyway, it was a most wonderful charm made by Muse, which I absolutely adore. I’ll get a pic of it up later today. Thank you, Muse!

  76. 576
    Predator Handshake

    Algernon: it’s no coincidence that you thought of that song. Dance, puppet!

  77. 577
    Inaji

    Welcome in, Toasted Rye.

  78. 578
    Setár, Elvenkitty

    So I asked one detractor of Occupy what the Occupants could do to make things better.

    His response.

  79. 579
    Toasted Rye

    @561 Carlie, The reapplying new definitions is new. I dealt with what happened to me a long time ago. I still deal with it from time to time but I have one of the greatest support structures anyone could ever hope for. Thank you for the suggestion though. I don’t really have the speed and stamina to be a regular commenter here. I tend to like to think out my arguments fully before making any and usually the thread has long since moved on once I finally get down to commenting.

    @574 Algernon, Suicidal Tendencies was my first thought as well. Well really my only thought as I didn’t read leading up comments and I greatly enjoyed that song back in my high school angst sort of days.

  80. 580
    Rey Fox

    So, if we’re all working as wage slaves, unable to ever get ahead, adequately provide for our families, or be able to care for ourselves and our loved ones in times of ill health, then everything will be swell?

    I really am sick of this pervasive “I’m miserable, everyone else should be too” attitude in society. Is this what’s become of the American Dream?

  81. 581
    Muse (evidently temptress of Pharyngula women)

    @Caine – Good for Mister. And that’s part of the reason that I emailed you – so the bumpy plain white envelope was at least a little bit expected.

  82. 582
    Inaji

    Muse:

    @Caine – Good for Mister. And that’s part of the reason that I emailed you – so the bumpy plain white envelope was at least a little bit expected.

    I appreciate the email too, ’cause my brain wasn’t on full function yet and I was engaged to someone with your surname a hundred years ago. That was an interesting moment in my head. :D

  83. 583
    The Sailor

    Problem, Death?

  84. 584
    SQB

    I really hope I am not the only person who is now thinking of
    Suicidal Tendencies

    Nope.

    O. You mean the band.

  85. 585
    Krasnaya Koshka

    Algernon @539:

    Thank you. My issue is not teaching Akbar English. He’s so cute and it’s easy at that age to teach English.

    No, my issue is his mother. I would like to know her name. She won’t tell me and I have to spend a lot of time with her, in my home. I’m uncomfortable in my home with her here.

    My basic issue is I don’t like having servants. She’s my servant. She gets very angry when I jump in and help her. I realize that her position (as servant) is because she wanted it. She asked us if she could clean up here. I just hate the whole set up. I hate that I have to call her “She” because when I have (repeatedly) asked her name she wags her finger at me and then ignores me.

  86. 586
    Krasnaya Koshka

    Walton @ 543:

    Red Kitty? Yes! Red cats are good luck in Russia. Plus I love orange tabbies. The real word is “Riezhnaya Koshka”.

  87. 587
    Algernon

    I would like to know her name. She won’t tell me and I have to spend a lot of time with her, in my home. I’m uncomfortable in my home with her here.

    This is really interesting to me. Is this a custom there, a sign of disrespect? Maybe if she doesn’t want to be called by her personal name there is an impersonal name that could be used? I don’t know, maybe you’ve tried but there is a slight difference I could see between “how should I address you?” and “What is your name?” KWIM?

  88. 588
    Benjamin "Derp" Geiger

    Orange tabbies are awesome. One of the two cats we had most of my childhood, Ornery, was an orange tabby. (The other, Sassy, was a calico. You probably notice a theme.)

    Photo of Ornery.
    Another.

    (I don’t have any photos of Sassy. Mom has… one, I think.)

  89. 589
    Algernon

    I have to admit that I do not know much about Tajikistan.

  90. 590
    Walton

    Walton @ 543:

    Red Kitty? Yes! Red cats are good luck in Russia. Plus I love orange tabbies. The real word is “Riezhnaya Koshka”.

    Yay!

    Unfortunately I know only a few words of Russian, although I did visit Russia (Moscow and St Petersburg, specifically) on a school trip when I was a teenager. I did learn the Cyrillic alphabet at the time, but have forgotten much of what I knew.

  91. 591
    Sili

    For reasons not entirely clear to me I’ve just read the WP article about the Berlin Airlift.

    And now I’m reading about Armistice, and fucking hell if I’m not crying again.

  92. 592
    A. R

    ad hominum salvator @553: It’s entirely possible to become addicted to methamphetamine (not any other drug as far as I know) in fewer than five doses. The methyl group attached to the amine makes the molecule much more rapidly bioavailible, which leads to a larger release of dopamine from the substantia nigra. A larger dose of dopamine is more likely to trigger an addiction response (and possible physiological dependence) than the smaller ojnes seen with other drugs (the one dose thing is DARE program bullshit though). Nerd may be more knowledgeable than I on this, due to work in pharmacy.

  93. 593
    Walton

    MrFire, if you’re around, check your emails. :-)

  94. 594
    Krasnaya Koshka

    Algernon @587:

    If I could ask her that sort of complicated question it would help. :) It’s not a custom in Russia, I think it’s a Muslim thing. I’m not at all familiar with Muslim customs. Most Russians I know are staunchly atheist. The only religious people here are babushki (old women) from the suburbs.

    Yeah, I know little about Tajikistan, too! Except that they are universally known as the “hard workers” in Russia. And, because they look a certain way, they’re the only ones I ever see getting yanked off the Metro. They generally have dark eyes and dark hair so they’re always caught up in Militzia. I realize my privilege every day on the Metro because I’m never snagged and asked for documents.

  95. 595
    A. R

    Re my comment at 592: It’s somewhat unusual though, typically addiction only develops after more than ten to fifteen doses. But it is a very, very, very difficult addiction to treat, which is why medical use is limited (and used in much smaller doses than recreational users would)

  96. 596
    Carlie

    I would like to know her name. She won’t tell me and I have to spend a lot of time with her, in my home. I’m uncomfortable in my home with her here.

    Hm, is there some kind of general honorific you could use, equivalent to ma’am or the like? And can you go out for walks when she’s doing most of the work? You could take her child out on a walk to give English names of things you see in town, maybe.

  97. 597
    The Sailor

    How to troll the media

  98. 598
    Krasnaya Koshka

    Walton @590:

    I was shocked when I went to Cyprus last year and saw how close the Cyrillic and Greek alphabets are.

  99. 599
    The Sailor

    Snap out of it!

  100. 600
    First Approximation

    I have to admit that I do not know much about Tajikistan.

    How about Ubeki-beki-beki-beki-stan-stan?

  101. 601
    Krasnaya Koshka

    Carlie @596:

    Today I taught him colors in English. Kids that age love “flomasters” (colored pens). He was very interesting to me (I’ve taught young children English several times) because he would only draw in letters. I should say, in his concept of letters. He wrote a very long note to his mother in nonsensical but very precise “letters”.

    So cute! He’s so cute. I sing when I teach young children and he was weirded out (I think) at first but then he sang along. “Red and yellow and pink and green….” After two hours he was picking up the corresponding colors. Kids are so smart!

  102. 602
    Sili

    How about Ubeki-beki-beki-beki-stan-stan?

    Heh. I considered saying that, but I hadn’t followed the discussion.

  103. 603
    sandiseattle

    @Benjamin “I Crush Everything” Geiger

    dang that cat is like Tang orange. :-)
    (i so wish we could have an indoor cat again)

  104. 604
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    @Og:

    Well, keep in mind my family is filled entirely with Christian Fundamentalists.

    oh. er. other way around?

    Everyone else who’s ever bought drugs: did you do it accidentally?

    in seventh grade, I sold a kid some oregano. odes that count? he asked for more the next week

    Or is that the reason why most of you get drunk once in a while?

    last time i got drunk was my sophomore year of college. nineteen stitches in my hand. aversion therapy works?

    toasted rye:

    welcome and you have my sympathy.

    —-

    and what the fuck has happened to my shift key?

  105. 605
    pelamun, the Linguist of Doom

    If I could ask her that sort of complicated question it would help. :) It’s not a custom in Russia, I think it’s a Muslim thing. I’m not at all familiar with Muslim customs. Most Russians I know are staunchly atheist. The only religious people here are babushki (old women) from the suburbs.

    I don’t think it’s a Muslim thing. I’ve lived in a Muslim country, and there was no taboo about asking anyone’s name.

    Though where I was, everyone knew my name, but I couldn’t remember all of them, so I was glad there was a way of addressing people without using their names (i.e. “sir”, “ma’m”).

  106. 606
    Anthony K

    I was shocked when I went to Cyprus last year and saw how close the Cyrillic and Greek alphabets are.

    That’s not accidental. The latter is based on the former.

    I have to admit that I do not know much about Tajikistan.

    How about Ubeki-beki-beki-beki-stan-stan?

    My manager works with organisations throughout Central Asia, especially WRT women’s reproductive health, and travels there multiple times per year. We’re always needing her input on something, only to hear that she’s off in another one of the ‘stans, and won’t be back for a fortnight. (She’s from England.)

    There’re some beautiful landscapes in that part of the world, and that’s something coming from mountain-hating me.

    After two hours he was picking up the corresponding colors. Kids are so smart!

    Notwithstanding that this child may be in fact smart, but children are for the most part language aquisition machines.

  107. 607
    pelamun, the Linguist of Doom

    Actually most of the alphabets of Eurasia still in use are related to each other, the main exception being the Hangul alphabet of Korea (and no, the Japanese kana aren’t alphabetic).

    The Latin, Greek, Cyrillic, Devanagari, Thai scripts can all ultimately be traced back to the Phoenician script (I’ve forgotten if the origin of the Phoenician script as a derivation from the Egyptian hieroglyphs was now fully established or not). If you wonder why, read the corresponding chapter in Jared Diamond’s Guns, germs, and steel.

  108. 608
    pelamun, the Linguist of Doom

    Brownian,

    this reminds me of yet another trivia question:

    which are the two ONLY doubly landlocked countries in the world.

    Hint: before the fall of the Soviet Union, there was only one, that is dear to Walton’s heart.

  109. 609
    ChasCPeterson

    For those who are wondering:

    A landlocked country surrounded only by other landlocked countries may be called a “doubly landlocked” country.

    Provided as a public service, because g**gling the phrase to figure out what the hell it might mean takes one straight to the answers.

    We now return you to your trivia question, already in progress.

  110. 610
    Krasnaya Koshka

    pelamun @ 605:

    Thank you. Maybe it’s just a “her” thing. I know her husband’s name and her son’s name but she won’t tell me her name. She calls me “Mrs.” I am not a Mrs, but maybe she wants to be called that?

    She mostly speaks Tajik, a little Russian. Today she said, “Thank you.” Perfectly. I know no Tajik so I’m not as cool as she is.

  111. 611
    pelamun, the Linguist of Doom

    Krasnaya Koshka,

    since we’re talking about Muslim customs, I might throw one in as well. I was told that it was a Muslim custom to put your hand on your chest after shaking someone’s hand (usually when meeting them for the first time)..

    Has anyone else noticed that?

    Chas,

    thanks. I should’ve explained it when posing the trivia question.

  112. 612
    Eurasian magpie

    @pelamun

    I had think hard if Caspian Sea is counted as a sea or not, decided not, and answer Uzbekistan and Liechtenstein

  113. 613
    Krasnaya Koshka

    Thanks for the link, Brownian! I did quite a bit of study online after going to Cyprus but this is even better than what I found.

    Yes, kids are language acquisition machines, but many don’t have any focus. Akbar has great focus. He’s the only three year old I’ve ever taught that will look me in the eyes and repeat what I say. For hours. He doesn’t fidget nor get bored.

  114. 614
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Good evening
    Sorry for mostly dropping out of the discussion.
    Had to leave in the afternoon and then had a pretty bad day, so I’m lacking the power to continue.Just one thing:

    Is there any world you can imagine that is significantly better for this person and how would that world be different from one of legalization?

    Yep, one in which people don’t make money by selling stuff that’s inherently dangerous and more or less uncontrollable. I stand by the opinion that sone stuff just can’t be responsibly used, only abused.

  115. 615
    pelamun, the Linguist of Doom

    pj,

    yes that’s right!

    The Caspian Sea is not connected to the oceans right? I think the Volga actually flows into it. So no, it doesn’t count.

  116. 616
    Krasnaya Koshka

    pelamun, no I haven’t, though I do know enough to keep my left hand in my pocket. I spent a month last year in the UAE and never saw even one woman on the streets (of Dubai or Abu Dhabi).

    At the end, outside of Muscat, Oman, I finally saw women. And they threw rocks at me. Because I wasn’t supposed to see them. This has maybe colored my perception of Muslim women.

    I’m trying to respectful. Though why I’m more respectful of Muslims than Christians, I can’t explain.

  117. 617
    pelamun, the Linguist of Doom

    k******ga finally got the banhammer! And on a completely unrelated thread. Good riddance!

    Kransaya Koshka,

    I’ve heard a lot of horrid things about UAE. I’ve only seen their airport so far, but that maybe ten times.

    If you’re interested in the lives of Saudi women I can recommend this blog: http://americanbedu.com/

    be sure to read the comments, many women there, Saudi or non-Saudi discuss their experiences with in a misogynist theocracy.

  118. 618
    Anthony K

    I’m trying to respectful. Though why I’m more respectful of Muslims than Christians, I can’t explain.

    Probably for the same reason that I politely greet strangers and yet punched out my dad.

    Familiarity breeds contempt.

  119. 619
    Kevin, 友好火猫 (Friendly Fire Cat)

    Huge boost in confidence = straight guys on OKCupid telling you ‘you’re pretty’ and when you mention you’re trans they say ‘oh, didn’t notice’

  120. 620
    pelamun, the Linguist of Doom

    Krasnaya Koshka, sorry for mistyping your nym…

  121. 621
    Anthony K

    k******ga finally got the banhammer! And on a completely unrelated thread.

    Where? I try not to rubberneck in real life, so I come here for the car crashes.

  122. 622
    Anthony K

    Huge boost in confidence = straight guys on OKCupid telling you ‘you’re pretty’ and when you mention you’re trans they say ‘oh, didn’t notice’

    Awesome, K. OKCupid is where I met my sweetie. I feel fondly towards it.

  123. 623
  124. 624
    Muse (evidently temptress of Pharyngula women)

    Brownian

    here.

  125. 625
    Krasnaya Koshka

    pelamun, no problem! And thanks for the link! Very interesting and relevant to me.

    Brownian, I wish I could punch out my father. Such a humongous asshole, he is. Why beloved fathers of my friends die and mine keeps on living is proof of no gods.

  126. 626
    Anthony K

    Thanks, pelamun.

    Sometimes I wish my dad were still around. I’d send some of these pissant MRAs his way, so they could fap at the feet of a master.

  127. 627
    The Sailor

    Benjamin, the situation you posted about sounds like a good time to start another group. Then there will be 1 more atheist group in FL.

    p.s. Splitter! ;-)
    ++++++++++++++++
    So we’ve gone from amphetamines having no clinical use to having some. And completely ignoring new MMDA (ecstasy, AKA Methylenedioxymethamphetamine, IOW methamphetamine) research.

    AR, citation needed for dosages, number of dosages before addiction, and how the addiction is worse than anything ever before. Evah!

    Sorry, but I’m old enough to have seen this same bullshit applied to pot, LSD, heroin, crack, meth, salvia. It’s the same old story, the same old song and dance.

    Perhaps there should be a fun metric to addictive substances. Nicotine & caffeine are the only ones I know of that AA converts almost consistently have. And cigarettes? They’ll kill you. Neither substance rates fun on my scale.

  128. 628
    pelamun, the Linguist of Doom

    hotshoe at 460

    AFAIK, Ecstasy is also a metamphetamine?

    Nope.

    Sailor at 627

    So we’ve gone from amphetamines having no clinical use to having some. And completely ignoring new MMDA (ecstasy, AKA Methylenedioxymethamphetamine, IOW methamphetamine) research.

    contradict each other.

    So who’s right?

  129. 629
    Anthony K

    Brownian, I wish I could punch out my father.

    Yeah, it was very satisfying. I can’t recommend it enough, though I think any ol’ MRA would do in a pinch.

  130. 630
    A. R

    The Sailor: Happy to provide citations! Much of it was from an orgo lecture, and I can ‘t seem to cite it now (thus I might be wrong) the biochemistry and severity of addiction parts are cited here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine#Addiction (I know it’s only the pfft of all knowledge, but I haven’t time to find journal articles right now, too busy writing a review article that’s due to the publisher in January.)

  131. 631
    A. R

    pelamun: They’re both amphetamine family drugs, but they both aren’t methamphetamine.

  132. 632
    Krasnaya Koshka

    Brownian:

    Yeah, it was very satisfying. I can’t recommend it enough, though I think any ol’ MRA would do in a pinch.

    I could use my brother instead. I’d hate to actually have to see my father after nearly 30 years of not seeing him. Yeah, my “I only married her for her hole” brother would do quite nicely.

  133. 633
    A. R

    oops, 631 should read “but they aren’t both meth”

  134. 634
    Alethea Kuiper-Belt

    People don’t make their own alcohol just to get it cheaper than they can buy it at the store.

    This is possibly true in some cases. By the time you factor in the capital costs of the kegs and kegerator and vats and tuns and wort chiller and lagering fridge and all that, the beer probably does come out more expensive than the premium craft brews that its emulating.
    Of course if you’re a cheap-ass kit brewer, it’s a lot cheaper than store bought. And then there’s moonshine.

    BTW, I’ve added requestpolicy to my FF add-ons, and now my preview button doesn’t work. Any idea which domain I need to whitelist?

  135. 635
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    contradict each other.

    So who’s right?

    Not sure on the exact chemistry, but I’m pretty sure the same test they use for meth will also get you on Ecstacy.

  136. 636
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    So we’ve gone from amphetamines having no clinical use to having some. And completely ignoring new MMDA (ecstasy, AKA Methylenedioxymethamphetamine, IOW methamphetamine) research.

    And I’m pretty sure it’s MDMA, not that I have any personal experience or anything.

  137. 637
    The Sailor

    AR, all, what’s the ld50 of pharmaceutical heroin, cocaine and MMDA?

    I seem to recall it’s the adulterations, not the drug itself. I could be wrong.

    AFAIK, there is no ld50 for smoking pot in humans. But the US doesn’t study it because that would be illegal.
    ++++++++++++++++++++
    Apparently kids are language vacuums*, as an adult I can’t learn a single one. I can learn computer languages, but they’re self consistent for the most part.

    *Yeah, yeah, I know, there’s a certain time in development that that section of the brain has more plasticity, or so I’ve heard.

  138. 638
    SallyStrange

    Good news, everyone!

    The crock pot works.

    I just heated water in it, that’s all. Don’t get all excited.

    At my new job, all of my immediate co-workers are recent immigrants from Burundi and Congo. I’m now convinced that the main reason I got hired was that I mentioned volunteering with the Refugee Resettlement Program on my CV. I’m taking the opportunity to learn a few key phrases in Swahili.

  139. 639
    Benjamin "Derp" Geiger

    Sailor:

    Yeah, the first comment I made was: “So, are we the People’s Front of Judea or the Judean Popular Front?”

  140. 640
    Anthony K

    I’m taking the opportunity to learn a few key phrases in Swahili.

    Oh, learn more than that. It’s a fun language, and the noun classes add an exciting complication to sorts of conjugations found in kizungu.

    I’m not sure if they play the same role to the Burundi or Congolese (though I have on authority from a Tanzanian that the Congolese speak “beautiful Swahili”), but on the coast, riddles and sayings are an important component of the language.

  141. 641
    A. R

    Sailor: Cocaine: 93 mg/kg Heroin: 22mg/kg MDMA: 100-300 mg/kg These are all rodent values, as (for obvious reasons) LD50s for humans cannot be accurately established.

  142. 642
    Sili

    Fun fun fun.

    Listening to BBC Radio3 and “avant-garde saxophonist Alexey Kruglov” introduces a number as dedicated to “the meaning of life according to Danes: HYGGE!”.

    Didn’t see that one coming.

    Sadly, I wouldn’t describe it as exactly “hyggeligt”, but I guess it is a tad cosier than the bits that came before.

    Of course, I’m not exactly a Jazz afficionado – much less avant garde ditto.

  143. 643
    cm's changeable moniker (quaint, if not charming)

    Brownian: “children are for the most part language acquisition machines”.

    My three-year-old, whilst acquiring all sorts of interesting words (her favorite is “no”), is more interested in books. She’s a literature destruction machine.

    Having always loved books’ spines (tasty! nom nom nom), she’s progressed to the pages within (ooh, confetti!), and now finally the covers (that’s a school book — nooo!).

    Yargh. She’s going to be trouble. ;)

  144. 644
    Anthony K

    Oops, I think I meant vizungu, for the plural.

  145. 645
    chigau (違う)

    Sally Strange
    Crock pot test, Phase 1, complete!
    Maybe for Phase 2, you should try something disposable.
    (just in case)
    ——-
    My kitteh wants her dinner. She’s still on DST.

  146. 646
    pelamun, the Linguist of Doom

    Swahili is on the list of languages I want to learn, I’ll see if I ever get the opportunity. Of course I have a grammar book and a phrase book, that’s enough for reference purposes.

  147. 647
    The Sailor

    Rev had MMDA v MDMA right, sorry. All hail tpyos!
    +++++++++++++++
    MDMA = Methylenedioxymethamphetamine.

    I’m not sure why anyone would say this substance isn’t meth.

    And the Pfft article A.R linked to says “Methamphetamine is highly addictive. While the withdrawal itself may not be dangerous, withdrawal symptoms are common with heavy use and relapse is common.”

    And I tried to read the paper from “Centre for Addiction and Mental Health” that Pfft linked to but it’s “We’re sorry, the page you requested cannot be found:”.

    So we have a paper that disappeared, that wasn’t peer-reviewed, from a clinic that makes their money from addiction.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++

  148. 648
    ad hominum salvator ॐ

    Well. That was the end of Herman Cain.

    It was fun while it lasted.

  149. 649
    SallyStrange

    @ Brownian

    A lot of these folks are refugees who’ve been shuffling between countries, including Tanzania and Rwanda and a few others I can’t recall right now. I imagine that their style of Swahili speaking must have been affected. Nevertheless I have noticed differences in pronunciation between the Congolese and Burundians.

    Key phrases is a starting place. Perhaps once I’m not immersed in learning new skills at the workplace, I’ll try to get more in-depth.

  150. 650
    A. R

    The Sailor: Are you positing that methamphetamine is not addictive or dangerous? Because if so, citation needed.

  151. 651
    consciousness razor

    MDMA = Methylenedioxymethamphetamine.

    I’m not sure why anyone would say this substance isn’t meth.

    Because chemistry is complicated and shit.

    MDMA: C11H15NO2

    Meth: C10H15N

    Not the same.

  152. 652
    pelamun, the Linguist of Doom

    @AHS,

    Somewhere, Mitt Romney is laughing maniacally in his son’s basement.

  153. 653
    A. R

    PZ: kohlamunga has morphed into nelsonfred over on the women on the internet thread.

  154. 654
    The Sailor

    Benjamin, that PFJ/JPF was in my first reply, but I didn’t want you to think I was being frivolous about it.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
    A.R
    So heroin is the most deadly substance on that list.
    And not very deadly.

    And meth is the safest.

    So everything folks have written about meth is anecdata.
    ++++++++++++++++
    Now we would have to run those tests on humans, and wait, we do have the stats: meth is prescribed, opioids are prescribed and cocaine is still used clinically.
    ++++++++++++++++

  155. 655
    Algernon

    I stand by the opinion that sone stuff just can’t be responsibly used, only abused.

    And I stand by the opinion that absolutely everything can and will be abused, including other people.

  156. 656
    Carlie

    John Hodgman and Jonathan Coulton singing a duet. The only way this could get more hipster is if they were standing in a dumpster.

  157. 657
    Algernon

    By the way, the most destructive person in my life was an alcoholic. It’s very funny, hearing people who would never dream of outlawing alcohol make these arguments.

    But we *reasonable* people can drink, of course.

  158. 658
    A. R

    Not so fast The Sailor, LD50s in humans tend to be dramatically lower than in mice, for example, the estimated LD50 for MDMA in humans is 30 mg/kg. And we weren’t discussing how lethal it was in one dose, we were talking about addictive potential, and the harm from long term use.

  159. 659
    The Sailor

    consciousness razor, names not numbers. It’s a form of amphetamine. It’s an amphetamine, specifically a methamphetamine.

    words mean something.
    +++++++++++++++++
    A.R sez “Are you positing that methamphetamine is not addictive or dangerous?”

    Don’t be stupid. Anything can be addicting and dangerous.
    ++++++++++++++
    Now please excuse me, I’m going to step out for awhile.

  160. 660
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Crock post soup was good.

    1 pound dried limas
    2 smoked sausages, cubed
    4 thick slices of bacon, diced and browned, grease retained
    4 sticks of celery, sliced
    2 onions, topped and sliced vertically
    1 cove garlic, crushed
    1 small can of diced tomatoes, drained
    water and chicken stock to cover
    sage, marjoram, black pepper, smoked salt

    Soak beans, throw away the water. Cook the beans. When the beans are done, add the sausage, bacon, celery, onions, garlic, tomatoes and herbs and salt. Simmer for another hour. Enjoy with a beer.

    —–

    And, oddly, my shift key is working again.

  161. 661
    Anthony K

    A lot of these folks are refugees who’ve been shuffling between countries, including Tanzania and Rwanda and a few others I can’t recall right now. I imagine that their style of Swahili speaking must have been affected.

    Besides that, it’s also not necessarily most East Africans’ first language. And politics are involved.

    When I briefly lived in Kampala, attempts to speak Swahili to Ugandans were met with stony silence and responses in English. When pressed as to whether people knew the language, a taxi driver helpfully explained, “Oh, we know it. We just don’t like to speak it. The multi-ethnic soldiers of Idi Amin’s army spoke Swahili. We have relatives who were tortured to death in Swahili.”

  162. 662
    Anthony K

    By the way, the most destructive person in my life was an alcoholic.

    In mine too. And too much unhealthy food and too little exercise did him in.

  163. 663
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Totally thread bankrupt.

    I survived today with zero cigarettes. I also didn’t buy any nicotine gum– I figured that if I didn’t 1) scream at my coworkers (whether they deserved it or not), 2) break down sobbing, or 3) a combination of the two, then I was all good. And guess what? I was. :)

  164. 664
    consciousness razor

    consciousness razor, names not numbers. It’s a form of amphetamine. It’s an amphetamine, specifically a methamphetamine.

    words mean something.

    A fucking backwards way of thinking about chemistry if I’ve ever heard one. Numbers mean something too, jackass.

  165. 665
    Anthony K

    Congrats, Audley! I’m not quite smoke free, though I’ve managed to cut down from a 2-3 pack/week habit to about a half pack a week, with zero cigarettes on most days.

  166. 666
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    did someone say bacon?

  167. 667
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Thanks Brownian!

  168. 668
    Sili

    ad hominum salvator ॐ says:

    Well. That was the end of Herman Cain.

    It was fun while it lasted.

    What did I miss?

  169. 669
    Alethea Kuiper-Belt

    Well done Audley & Brownian! That’s seriously difficult work.

  170. 670
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Sailor,
    MDMA (ecstasy) and meth are chemically similar, but they are not the same drug.
    Just take a gander at the chemical structures displayed very helpfully right on the top of their respective Wikipedia pages (here and here).
    They both contain Ph-CH2CH(CH3)NHCH3 groups (that, in fact, is the entirety of the structure of methamphetamine) and are thus chemically members of the amphetamine family, which is defined as something containing the structure Ph-CH2CH(CH3)NHR, where R can be just about anything (such as a methyl group in the case of methamphetamine). The benzene ring can also be substituted, as it is in MDMA, with a variety of things. MDMA has a 1,3-dioxyl that is para to the chain (i.e. the chain is at the 5 position on the ring).

    /Chemistry technobabble

    Meth is a CNS stimulant that acts primarily by causing simultaneous reversal of serotonin, dopamine and norepinephrine channels in the brain, which results in higher stimulation of post-synaptic receptors. MDMA, by contrast, appears to cause serotonin vesicles to dump cargo. In that manner, it is similar to SSRIs (a class of antidepressants) in that it causes serotonin levels to rise.

    /Neuroscience technobabble

    Meth and MDMA have different effects on the brain. They are chemically distinct. They are not the same drug.

  171. 671
    pelamun, the Linguist of Doom

    Sili,

    go to the New York Times website, Politco or any other US American news site.. You won’t be able to miss it…

  172. 672
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    I need some help from the Threadizens.

    I am looking for a book to give to Girl for solstice. She is a freshman majoring in history, psychology, and secondary education, and is very interested in Eastern religion (from an academic standpoint). I’m looking for something that covers Islam to Shinto (and everything in between) from a philosophy and history viewpoint, not an, ‘oh, gee, try ki’ view.

    Anyone have any suggestions?

  173. 673
    Algernon

    While I was in the gym I heard a rather unpleasant description from the fourth person to come out to say that Cain sexually harassed them. That’s as much as I know though.

  174. 674
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Sili and pelamun:
    Wonkette has the best headline about Herman Cain that I’ve seen yet today: Pervert Herman Cain Has Sexy Job Creation Plan For Ladies.

    So technically Herman Cain might be right when he keeps saying those “harassment” charges are false, in the sense that they are actually more like assault.

  175. 675
    Jessa

    Congrats, Audley! That’s fantastic! Stories like yours and Brownian’s give me hope that I can kick the habit too. (Which spouse and I pretty much have to, since our company’s insurance has tacked a pretty hefty surcharge onto smokers starting in 2012).

  176. 676
    chigau (違う)

    Audley
    this is a link to a youtube of an ad for a nicotine patch
    I’m not endorsing the patch but this character has been a hero and a meme with me for years:
    “The seatbelt sign is ON … jeez.”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7MIpyUpEcE
    and as I sneak out for a smoke, I salute you!

  177. 677
    chigau (違う)

    As I hit the “submit” button I realised that I didn’t do the proper HTML but it didn’t embed.
    What’s up?

  178. 678
    pelamun, the Linguist of Doom

    If it weren’t so sad, the official statement by the Cain campaign would be funny for its ridiculousness

    “All allegations of harassment against Mr. Cain are completely false. Mr. Cain has never harassed anyone. Fortunately the American people will not allow Mr. Cain’s bold ’9-9-9 Plan’, clear foreign policy vision and plans for energy independence to be overshadowed by these bogus attacks.”

    (Source)

    A long article from next Sunday’s New York Time Sunday Magazine Apparently, Cain being a math major did not stop him in believing that certain numbers appear more often than others. Head -> desk.)

    “I’m not a devout numerologist,” Cain writes in ‘This Is Herman Cain!’ “But my mathematical training does cause me to recognize when numbers appear more than coincidentally.”

    For him, the magical number is 45. As someone said, maybe after a fifth woman comes forward “4-5″, he will take that as a sign of god and get out of the race..

  179. 679
    pelamun, the Linguist of Doom

    Thanks, Esteleth, and others. I think I finally have a feeling about how to differentiate the different drugs. Wikipedia might be a good resource, but it was too much chemical technobabble to me. Especially Esteleth’s post broke it down to more manageable bits..

  180. 680
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    chigau:
    That ad was freaking awesome. I was a little worried about acting like that today (which was a long and stressful day of work, even without the quitting smoking business), but I don’t think I was nearly that bad.

    Alethea H. Claw and Jessa:
    Thanks! It helps to have a little cheering section. :)

  181. 681
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    “All allegations of harassment against Mr. Cain are completely false. Mr. Cain has never harassed anyone. Fortunately the American people will not allow Mr. Cain’s bold ’9-9-9 Plan’, clear foreign policy vision and plans for energy independence to be overshadowed by these bogus attacks.”

    That 999 plan is turning into a 911 plan.

  182. 682
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Audley:

    You go!

    I tried quitting cold turkey when I was 16 and smoking 2 packs a day. I couldn’t. I switched to pipe and, though my intake is really low, I am still smoking at 45. I admire anyone who can quit. Keep it up and I’ll keep cheering.

  183. 683
    pelamun, the Linguist of Doom

    Rev:

    or maybe Cain is to move to one of the following countries:

    States using 999 include the United Kingdom, Ireland, Poland, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Macao, Bahrain, Qatar, Bangladesh, Botswana, Ghana, Kenya, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Mauritius, Singapore, Zimbabwe, and Trinidad and Tobago.

  184. 684
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Oggie,
    Awe, ysy!

  185. 685
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Or “yay!”, rather.

    That was apparently my sacrifice to Tpyos for tonight.

  186. 686
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    ‘ysy’

    I just figured it was more interwebtextspeak which I do not grok in fullness.

  187. 687
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Pelamun,
    Chemicals of all types can be classified two ways (1) strictly by structure or (2) by their effect on humans.

    Drugs, of course, are chemicals. These two classification methods are equally valid (though perhaps in different circumstances) and both are useful. With regards to drug policy, the second is the most useful for obvious reasons.

    An understanding neuroscience is also useful here, of course. I dropped the term “SSRI” in my comment @670, for example. That stands for “selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor,” which is technobabble. But – if you understand that (1) serotonin is a neurotransmitter, and when it is released it produces positive feelings (2) serotonin, after being released, is taken back up again (this is “reuptake”) and hidden away, (3) SSRIs inhibit this process, resulting in a net higher level of serotonin floating about, and (4) SSRIs have this effect on serotonin reuptake, but not on reuptake of other neurotransmitters (like dopamine, for example). End result: SSRIs are antidepressants. The most famous SSRI is fluoxetine, which is sold in the US as Prozac.

    My views on what should/should not be legal for use without a prescription flow from the answer to the questions What does it do to a person? and What, if anything, does a person under the influence do to others?

    My vehement opposition to decriminalization of meth, for example, comes from my knowledge (having grown up in a rural area with a lot of poverty) of what meth does to people – the addicts and those around them. I struggle to be rational in my loathing of that drug. By the same token, I favor decriminalization of pot, as its effects on the body are minimal, and people under the influence aren’t prone to anything dangerous.

  188. 688
    Predator Handshake

    Dr. Audley:
    if it makes you feel any better, I thought you were going for that Creed Shreds video from awhile back. I’d have posted a link but I am not good with computers.

  189. 689
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Oggie,

    I just figured it was more interwebtextspeak which I do not grok in fullness.

    Nope. Just stupid fingers. XD

  190. 690
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Whups, sorry for the teal deer there. Got a bit carried away.

  191. 691
    cicely

    Well. That was the end of Herman Cain.

    ?

    Something more recent than the sexual harrassment allegations (in 1997??) that he refuses to discuss?

    Obliquely related, does anybody happen to know what percentage of the Repub base is Mormon? It’s uncanny how “frontrunners” (aka “not-Romneys”) come and go, but Romney’s second place slot seems to hold at about 23% regardless.
    -

    I survived today with zero cigarettes.

    WTG!
    -
    Ah. Four women are accusing Cain of harrassment. Missed that.
    -

  192. 692
    Rey Fox

    I dunno. Sexual harassment didn’t keep Clarence Thomas off the bench.

  193. 693
    PZ Myers

    NEW THREAD!

  194. 694
    pelamun, the Linguist of Doom

    Rey Fox,

    I think that today Clarence Thomas wouldn’t get through the confirmation process.

    cicely,

    couldn’t find any numbers, but I think there are 6m Mormons in America. So that’s far removed from 23%.

    And I came across this (well known as it is)

    A quarter of Americans say they would be less likely to support a presidential candidate who is Mormon, while 68 percent say it would not make a difference. For perspective, about the same number say they would be less likely to vote for a candidate who has used marijuana in the past.

    But an important group within the Republican base, white evangelical Protestants, is more uncomfortable with the idea of a Mormon candidate than are other Republicans. Among all Republicans and Republican-leaning independents, 31 percent of white evangelicals say they would be less likely to vote for a Mormon; that compares with 15 percent of other Republicans, according to a May survey. This gap is as large as it was four years ago.

    At that time, our polling found that white evangelical Protestants were more likely than non-evangelical white Protestants to view the Mormon religion as very different from their own. And just 40 percent of all white evangelicals viewed Mormons as Christians; far more non-evangelical white Protestants and Catholics said that Mormons were Christians.

  195. 695
    ad hominum salvator ॐ

    My vehement opposition to decriminalization of meth, for example, comes from my knowledge (having grown up in a rural area with a lot of poverty) of what meth does to people – the addicts and those around them.

    I feel I should insist on being assumed to have a similar understanding. You just described my own hometown, yet I came to a different conclusion about meth. A good friend died from heroin overdose many years ago, too. We were teenagers. I hardly get sad about it anymore but let’s skip the condolences just in case. A friend and occasional romantic interest died due to alcohol abuse a few years ago. Just a few months ago an old and dear friend died under confusing circumstances, which either proximately or ultimately implicate alcohol, cocaine and an honest doctor’s scrips.

    My point is I wish that all participants in this discussion could all be granted the very reasonable assumption that we’ve been close at one time or another to the effects of drug addiction in someone’s life: friends, family, or our own. It’s very common. It’s not something known only on one side of the debate.

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