Oct 10 2011

# Episode CCLX: Paleontologists are rock stars

They get They Might Be Giants to write songs about them, after all.

1. 1
##### Dianne

Nice sniny new thread. And me with no profound thoughts to fill it with.

2. 2
##### pelamun

Birger,

check out the “Steve Jobs is dead” thread. Also search the last TET for mentionings of the name “Steve Jobs”

3. 3
##### First Approximation, Shevek

I love the implication here:

Jeffress is a supporter of a Romney rival, Texas Gov. Rick Perry , and introduced Perry at the summit to rousing applause.

Jeffress, whose church is a prominent member of the Southern Baptist Convention, began making his point during the introduction: “Do we want a candidate who is a good moral person, or do we want a candidate who is a born-again follower of Jesus Christ? In Rick Perry, we have a candidate who is a committed follower of Christ.”

4. 4
##### Badland, delurking for a bit

Jumping in – ugh. Have been reading Grey Lining. Time for a limoncello and several hours of sleep to reset some neurons (specifically, those concerned with wallowing in sweet sweet alcohol and pretending filthstains like that don’t exist) and catch up on Iain Banks.
Reality? Bah!

5. 5
##### Charlie Foxtrot

My kids (5 & 7) love that song! They sing along word for word in the car :)

6. 6
##### LS

House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, R-Va., has expressed concern about the “growing mobs” that are engaged in “the pitting of Americans against Americans.”

Really? This from the guy that has been cheering on the Tea Party?

7. 7
##### forksmuggler

“Here Comes Science” is a wonderful CD/DVD. Those with toddlers (like me) who also happen to be TMBG fans (like me) will also want to check out “Here Come the 123s” and “Here Come the ABCs.”

8. 8
##### Psych-Oh

I need a recommendation for a book on South African history, if anyone knows of something really great.

9. 9
##### Rey Fox

that are engaged in “the pitting of Americans against Americans.”

That’s just not (fully) true.

Rupert Murdoch isn’t American.

10. 10
##### Lynna, OM

NPR’s Fresh Air program has added to the recent exposure of the means by which Art Pope bought North Carolina for the Republicans.

http://www.npr.org/2011/10/06/141078608/the-multimillionaire-helping-republicans-win-n-c

In early 2010, Republican strategists launched a new project called RedMap. The idea was to flip as many statehouses across the country to Republican majorities during the 2010 election cycle — particularly in states where congressional redistricting was pending.

“The thinking behind it, which was very ingenious, was that state legislative races are cheap, and if you can just put a bit of money into them and flip the statehouse, then you can control the redistricting process, which in turn gives the Republican Party a great advantage in putting members of Congress in the House of Representatives,” says New Yorker staff writer Jane Mayer. “And most people don’t pay a lot of attention to what’s going on in the states. … But it’s kind of ground zero for where politics is playing out.”…

The bit about Art Pope’s negative effect on North Carolina’s state-funded university system does not appear in the text summary, but is well-covered in the podcast. Basically: Pope got Republicans elected who drastically cuts funds to education at all levels. When the University was hurting the most, Pope stepped in and offered half a million dollars for a course on Western History and Free Markets. IIRC, there was one other course with libertarian leanings that Pope paid for, including a lecture series for which only rabid right-wingers were invited to speak.

Pope has arranged it so that education that goes against his worldview cannot be effectively taught, and institutions are so broke that they will accept money from him to teach courses that do align with his worldview.

11. 11
##### SC (Salty Current), OM

*second try*

Uh…OK. I think I’ve been banned from Historiann.

Salty Current: you’re contributing exactly nothing to the conversation and you persist in being a jerk. Buh-bye!

Frankly, her posts of late haven’t been anything to write home about, but her response to challenges and criticism here was pathetic.

I think that’s my first banning. Do I buy the next round of grog or something?

12. 12
##### pelamun

Rey Fox,

of course he is. He took on American citizenship so he could own Fox…

13. 13
##### Rey Fox

I want to see his papers.

14. 14
##### Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

Do I buy the next round of grog or something?

No, your next grog is on the house.

15. 15
##### Walton

House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, R-Va., has expressed concern about the “growing mobs” that are engaged in “the pitting of Americans against Americans.”

Er… perhaps I’m missing something, but what’s so especially terrible about pitting Americans against Americans? Is everyone who happens to have been born within the same arbitrarily-defined national borders supposed to agree about everything? :-/

16. 16
##### pelamun

well there is a US law networks can only be owned by Americans (I don’t recall the papers) so presumably at some stage he had to provide proof to the relevant authorities

17. 17
##### SC (Salty Current), OM

No, your next grog is on the house.

Excellent! I’ll be by tonight.

18. 18
##### Mark

I am happy to report that this is my 5 year-old niece’s favorite song.

19. 19
##### julian

Salty Current: you’re contributing exactly nothing to the conversation and you persist in being a jerk. Buh-bye!

That’s a right generally reserved for the blog owner.

20. 20
##### ChasCPeterson

That’s a right generally reserved for the blog owner.

or the killfiler

21. 21
##### Jessa

Er… perhaps I’m missing something, but what’s so especially terrible about pitting Americans against Americans?

I don’t think he means Americans against Americans. I think he means “Americans” against Americans. I’m pretty sure that he doesn’t consider the Occupy Wall Street protesters to be Real Americans™.

22. 22
##### SC (Salty Current), OM

That’s a right generally reserved for the blog owner.

That’s who posted it.

23. 23
##### LS

@Walton:

Well, you see… they’re pitting Americans vs Americans, and it’s terrible (to his funding sources)… because one of the groups is corporate America…

24. 24
##### Lynna, OM

Eric Cantor wants to pretend that we’re all in this together, and that it’s impolite for the peons to complain about having to bail out bankers, about still having no job, and about bankers now riding high again while millions of people have no jobs and fewer services.

Eric Cantor thinks its unamerican to be rude to rich people who have screwed you.

25. 25
##### Psych-Oh

Walton:

Is everyone who happens to have been born within the same arbitrarily-defined national borders supposed to agree about everything?

In his world, yes.

26. 26
##### ibyea

@lynna
Eric Cantor isn’t the only guy that makes me want to vomit. I am pretty sure you saw the American media’s reaction to Occupy Wall Street. It is revolting, I have never been so disgusted at politics in my life. I can’t believe how much of a garbage the media of this country is.

27. 27
##### theophontes, feu d'artifice du cosmopolitisme

@ Psych-Oh

I don’t know of a single book on the complete history, if that is what you are looking for.

A great book is “The Washing of The Spears”, by Donald Morris. Subtitle:”The Rise and Fall of the Zulu Nation” (Interesting aside. My grandfather wrote to the author to contest a statement he made concerning the ammunition boxes in the Battle of Isandhlawa. I won’t spoil your fun as to why this was so important. If you get the book I can mail you the exchange.)

Another excellent book is “Long Walk to Freedom”, the autobiography of Nelson Mandela. Definitely a “must read”.

I will try and remember some more. If you want any info on more recent history, I can try and help you.

Important fiction to get a look into SA: Check out Zakes Mda, Marlene van Niekerk and on a lighter note Deon Meyer, who is very popular right now.

Check these too: Freshly Ground, Gito Baloi (actually Mozambican, but very famous in South Africa, murdered in Jo’burg in 2004), The Parlotones

28. 28
##### Lynna, OM

Furthermore, if you are a member of the 99%, it’s likely that you do not even know the name of the particular manner in which you were screwed, and that, in Eric Cantor’s mind, automatically disqualifies you from being allowed to object.

Ignorance of complicated derivatives does not exempt you from the economic fallout, but it does exempt you from the worthy-of-being-heard by the Screwers in Charge category.

29. 29
##### Matt Penfold

With regards South Africa, anything by Donald Woods is also well worth reading.

Woods was a white South African newspaper editor of English decent who in the atheism wars would have been called an accomodationist. That is until he started became friend with Steve Biko, and after Biko’s death began questioning what happened.

30. 30
##### theophontes, feu d'artifice du cosmopolitisme

PS: Just had to post this: Freshly Ground (“Nomvula”, in Xhosa)

31. 31
##### ibyea

Oh, recently, I finished watching this anime called Paranoia Agent. I loved it. It was an entire series dedicated to dismantling the idea of living in delusion. Plus, I loved the horror aspect of it.

32. 32
##### julian

That’s a right generally reserved for the blog owner.

That’s who posted it.

Note to self: work on communicating jokes.

33. 33
##### SC (Salty Current), OM

Note to self: work on communicating jokes.

Ah – I get it. And it’s funny. Perhaps if you’d left off the “Buh-bye!”…?

34. 34
##### Lynna, OM

Eric Cantor on the issue of jobs and the economy:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#44842441

132. 132
##### Father Ogvorbis: It's Good for You. It Builds Character

And off to bed. To read. Kinda afraid of actually sleeping. G’night, all.

133. 133
##### chigau ()

Fr.Og. g’night
Tonight my bed-reading is Everything You Know About God is Wrong ed. Russ Kick
It has increased my “for later” list at my library by … a lot.

134. 134
##### Inane Janine, OM, Conflater Of Arguments

This is truly one of the sickest things I have ever seen.

Not a hyperbole.

135. 135
##### Sally Strange, OM

Well, this should be interesting. Looks like Deepak Chopra threw a temper tantrum about Dawkins’ children’s book on HuffPo. I would love to see PZ or someone do a public take-down of this. It’s so long and rambling. Full of the same old stupidity: Dawkins is close-minded, he’s intellectually arrogant, he thinks data are superior to experience, how can you scientifically prove I’m in love with a beautiful woman, and so on.

Blergh.

136. 136
##### chigau ()

Janine
Have you ever seen one of those in meat-space?
or it is just something they do because it is so fucking funny™ on the interwebs?

137. 137
##### Inane Janine, OM, Conflater Of Arguments

Chigau, I have not seen such a thing in meatspace. I would like to think that even the evil shits who find that funny are too ashamed to be that public about it.

138. 138
##### Inane Janine, OM, Conflater Of Arguments

SallyStrange, even the open sentence is pure shit.

Because of his popular fame, the dogmatic atheist Richard Dawkins has made himself immune to critical challenge.

No, even that is not a critical challenge.

139. 139
##### chigau ()

I was at karaoke at a bar and someone sang this:
lyrics:
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/bloodhoundgang/alapdanceissomuchbetterwhenthestripperiscrying.html
I haven’t quite recovered.

140. 140

Bleagh!

141. 141
##### theophontes , flambeau du communisme

@ Sally

hoomins 68.4% , idioots 28.23% … time to clear cache and vote again.

@ sandiseattle

couscous with cheese, yes or no?

The answer is a most definite yes. However be careful what cheese you select. (My guess is that most cheeses won’t go so well, but then I’ve never tried.) My recommendations are halloumi and feta.

The halloumi should be grilled just before serving. (delicious, but tends to be expensive.)

Crumbled feta goes well with finely chopped tomato/onion/greenpepper/olives mixed with either cilantro or fresh mint. Finish of with some fresh roast pine-nuts and a “squeal of lemming”. It works well both hot or as a cold salad and is super quick and easy to make.

Generally couscous can be used to replace either pasta or rice in a dish. You can also experiment with chopped apricots, cashews, pistachios and feta. No reason that couscous couldn’t carry a sweeter dish too.

142. 142
##### Alethea H. Claw

Damn. Missed the bread, they were sold out. I bought croissants instead, and had a “fish & chip” pizza for lunch, though, so it wasn’t a total loss. (That’s potato & anchovy pizza bianca, now renamed thanks to theophontes.) And now I have more exciting medical terms to google. Subsegmental alectasis, subpleural nodules, hiatus hernia, what fun!

143. 143
##### theophontes , flambeau du communisme

@ Inane Janine #134

Eeeuw, gross. Is there no such thing as hate speech in the US of A?

@ Alethea

“fish & chip” pizza

Really nyummy, no? Next up is a bacon & banana Bianca… ;)

144. 144
##### Sally Strange, OM

Eeeuw, gross. Is there no such thing as hate speech in the US of A?

There is, indeed, plenty of hate speech. There are also few restrictions on it. Though this one clearly crosses the legal line into openly advocating violence against women, USians are in general slow to act against such things.

145. 145
##### theophontes , flambeau du communisme

@ Sally

USians are in general slow to act against such things.

If you know how to start a petition against these people, you can gladly sign me up.

146. 146
##### Just_A_Lurker

EWWWW, Jaine, that shirt is terrible. I haven’t seen that shirt specifically but I’ve seen others like it in real life. How sad. =(

Maybe that’s because I’m in AZ?

Sad realization I just had when I saw that shirt was that my most recent ex would love it but be too ashamed to wear it. A very bad discussion we had once after I went off on some sexist shit on TV, he didn’t defend it but he said he didn’t like feminists and feeling guilty about stuff that isn’t his fault. He was surprised that I was a feminist. I said well, you think women are people too, right? And support endeavors to help correct society on that score right? He said yes, but didn’t want to feel guilty, or be called a feminist or actually do anything about it. He’s black and tried to explain it by comparing but that didn’t help since I have white privilege, but am female, while he’s a minority with Male privilege.

Somehow that feels so much worse than him being a straight up asshole.
Because he’s not helping, but he’s being hurt by it too.

I’ve tried talking to him about the damage it does to men too, like his insecurities about his penis (which was just great but of course my opinion didn’t matter) and feeling like a loser for not banging a lot of women. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Oh, shit he’s a Nice Guy(tm). How did I not see that?

Ugh. Now I feel sick. Too many realizations in one night.

147. 147
##### Caine, Fleur du Mal

Janine:

This is truly one of the sickest things I have ever seen.

And here I thought the “Don’t trust anything that bleeds for five days and doesn’t die” T-shirt was bad. It’s always worse than you think, ennit?

J_A_L:

Oh, shit he’s a Nice Guy(tm). How did I not see that?

Because they’re all over the place and not always easy to spot?

148. 148
##### Just_A_Lurker

Because they’re all over the place and not always easy to spot?

Too true. I guess I’m just shocked since we were together for so long and I thought I knew him. Love is blinding. heh. It just makes me feel bad since I didn’t realize he was lying & cheating too…

Sigh. Oh well. Knowing and realizing is better than being ignorant.

Though I’m human and it still hurts like hell all the same =(

149. 149
##### Just_A_Lurker

Am I the only one who feels like they broke the thread when no one comments for awhile after them?

…..

150. 150
##### Caine, Fleur du Mal

Am I the only one who feels like they broke the thread when no one comments for awhile after them?

No. It’s late for most USians and a little to early for those on the other side of the pond. It’s 3 am for me and I should be in bed.

151. 151
##### theophontes , flambeau du communisme

@ J_A_L

Am I the only one who feels like they broke the thread when no one comments for awhile after them?

I am (supposed to be) working. Heading back home soon.

PS: Hugs if you want them…
PPS: Press ribs against USB port for cybertickle ™ [beta version only]

152. 152
##### The Laughing Coyote

1:30 am here. I’m terrible at setting normal sleeping habits for myself.

153. 153
##### Birger Johansson

Thanks, Pelamun

— — — — —
“Two Americans share economics Nobel” http://www.thelocal.se/36652/20111010/
What is the point of economy as a science if policy makers ignore the accumulated economic experience of the last century?? We see the absolute triumph of ideology over knowledge in how US economy is run.

— — — — — —

“Jesus Christ
for
King of the World!”

There is a precedent. Kim Il Jung is still president of North Korea despite being dead for more than ten years.

154. 154
##### Caine, Fleur du Mal

TLC:

I’m terrible at setting normal sleeping habits for myself.

I’m nocturnal, but I’ve been very short on sleep lately. And I’m still not in bed…

155. 155
##### theophontes , flambeau du communisme

@ Birger

Snap! I was just reading that on BBC News. I had thought they understood these mechanisms before. What a wunch of bankers… They either understand what is going on and lie, or they lie about their ability and screw it up for the rest of us anyway.

156. 156
##### The Laughing Coyote

Seriously, Scream 4 marketing team, fuck off with the stupid pop up faux-’screamer’ ad. It’s only making my already low opinion of your movie even lower.

157. 157
##### John Morales

Sigh.

In local news: Filmmakers ‘appalled’ by Iran sentence.

The people behind an Australian-produced film critical of Iran are shocked and appalled an actress will be lashed 90 times and jailed for her role in the feature.

Marzieh Vafamehr has been sentenced to a year’s jail and 90 lashes for appearing in My Tehran For Sale, a South Australian-produced film critical of the Islamic republic’s hardline policies on the arts.

The film was shot in the Iranian capital and tells the story of a young actress whose stage work is banned by authorities.

(Bravery has its price)

158. 158
##### Caine, Fleur du Mal

TLC, don’t you have AdBlock? Or Firefox, which comes with a handy dandy pop up killer?

159. 159
##### Therrin

Ichthyic,

Thank you for the introduction to this meme. I see a strong future for it.

160. 160
##### Carlie

I’m probably behind the curve here, but this made me giggle: feminist Ryan Gosling. (which apparently has nothing to do with Ryan Gosling except that the person who made it likes him)

5 am here, and I’ve been up for over an hour. Decided not to try and go back to sleep, in the hopes that I’ll actually fall asleep tonight. I’m going to be really short on sleep this weekend (I assume! Woo!) so I should stock up…

JustaLurker, it sucks to realize you spent so much investment into someone who wasn’t good for you, but at least now you know the signs to watch out for next time. Cold comfort, but at least something.

161. 161
##### Birger Johansson

Iran… the brownshirts are firmly in power. What do you expect of a country that has executed 120 000 people for political reasons.

— — — — — — — —

Kill it with fire!!!

“Mega beats Mimi for world’s biggest virus” http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-10-mega-mimi-world-biggest-virus.html

Seems like co-evolution of humans and canides:
“Evidence of domestication of dogs during Paleolithic period found” http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-10-evidence-domestication-dogs-paleolithic-period.html

— — — — — —

Is there a term for “dozing off for a couple of hours during the night, attending to cats, dozing of half an hour, attending to cats, unsuccessfully trying to sleep for the rest of the night” ? Punctuated nocturnalism?

I used to sleep five hours a night. Now I consider that a luxury. And if I am not disturbed by the cats, I wake up because of something else.

162. 162
##### Giliell, connaiseuse des choses bonnes

They either understand what is going on and lie, or they lie about their ability and screw it up for the rest of us anyway.

I remember that when the crisis hit first in 2008, suddenly a book was in the bestseller lists (I can’t remember the exact title) about the “financial crash”. It was a point blank analysis of the reasons and mechanisms.
Only that it had been written one or two years before.
So, yeah, people knew what went on, they knew what was coming, they knew why. They kept lying. Those who told the truth were shouted down as lefty-liberal doomsday-sayers.
Now in Europe, everybody is fed up with bailing out the banks. Greece, Spain, Ireland, Portugal, Italy, they ruined themselves bailing out the banks.
They ruined themselves being tax havens.
You can’t sell bailing out the banks anymore. But you can, to a degree, sell bailing out Greece, so we got the Euro-Safety-Net.
And just one week after most countries got it through parliament, they are now talking about changing the thing to bailing out the banks again, those very banks they told us were stable and well-funded about half a year ago when went through a stress-test.

Truth is: they don’t have any solutions in which they don’t cut the interests of the big banks and corporations drastically. But they will use the crisis for a massive class-war before they admit that.
We will not get our public property back if we manage to get a more democratically and socially minded government in some years. What’s gone is gone. If they destroy the public healthcare in Germany it won’t be easily possible to rebuild it again.

Oh, and it’s half past 11 here, in the morning.
Just had the workers here, changing the clocks on the radiators (those little devices that tell our housing company how much heating we actually used.)

163. 163
##### Sili

Yay! Mobile website!

164. 164
##### Therrin

Yay! Mobile website!

Thanks for pointing that out, it’s quite well hidden. -.-

165. 165
##### Giliell, connaiseuse des choses bonnes

Hoookay
I only saw today on Jadehawk’s blog that the only city in Germany where the fucking “40 days for life” pro-lifers were protesting in Germany was my state capital and the protest was already last Saturday.
But I sent the medical centre they targeted an email telling them they’re awesome and that we really need and value them. I hope it helps a little.

166. 166
##### Alethea H. Claw

*142 Atelectasis. Not Tpyos’s fault this time, entirely mine.

167. 167
##### Carlie

I just have to highlight this because it’s so good:

My feminism will be intersectional or it will be bullshit

168. 168
##### Walton

Carlie @#167:

Thanks; that’s a fantastic blog. Her preceding post, In the name of safety: the multi-national anti-immigration industry and their billionaire profits, is spot on.

I’m glad people are paying attention to this. Immigrants’ rights need to be seen as a basic social justice issue. The oppression of undocumented migrants by the state and its hirelings is deeply grounded in racism; and it’s also a feminist issue, since irregular migrant women face special problems (many are victims of sexual violence and abuse in their home countries, and many in the West end up being exploited as domestic workers, sex workers, or some other form of informal labour), and an LGBT rights issue (many LGBT migrants come from countries in which being gay is illegal, and in which LGBT people are stigmatized and regularly beaten by gangs or by the police).

169. 169
##### Mr. Fire

ARRGH WALTON

Sorry I have to cancel on you. Came in today and found a bunch of meetings on my plate. I’ll send you an email too.

ARRRGH

170. 170
##### Walton

MrFire: No problem. We can meet up next week instead (after I’m back from Rhinebeck).

171. 171
##### greame

I have another shirt that says “Paleontologists Do It In The Dirt.”

172. 172
##### Walton

Happy National Coming Out Day, everyone!

173. 173
##### Algernon

This is truly one of the sickest things I have ever seen.

I don’t know. I may carry one to throw at men who hit on me near elevators or as I’m trying to go to my car. Maybe they’ll get the point, maybe not… but the distraction might give me time to get away from them.

174. 174
##### SQB

This is truly one of the sickest things I have ever seen.

Not a hyperbole.

Their other shirts aren’t much better, either. The worst part? I already knew that joke line.

And here I thought the “Don’t trust anything that bleeds for five days and doesn’t die” T-shirt was bad. It’s always worse than you think, ennit?

Actually, I think that one is worse, though I can’t quite articulate why. Perhaps it’s the wholesale dismissal of all women vs the threat of violence against one single woman? I’m not sure. They’re both pretty bad. And the rest of their T-shirts stink as much.

Every time I see a T-shirt with “I Fuck On The First Date”, I get the urge to slap on a “You Wish” sticker.

175. 175
##### Muse

So totally unrelatedly – I think that it’s going to be a while before “We are Veterans of the United States of America” doesn’t strike a chord for me. The Occupy Boston folks have a video of Veterans for Peace* being arrested (pretty physically) as their flags are hitting the ground and being trampled on, and the crowd is crying “Shame”. I’m not one generally for flag worship, but it’s a hell of a symbol. Video is at http://t.co/C22hrGVM

*The Vets for Peace took up station between the Occupy Boston folks and the police when the police were coming to tear down the second camp/arrest the occupiers.

176. 176
##### Algernon

Don’t trust anything that bleeds for five days and doesn’t die

No, that’s actually rather violent too. 1. women are “things” not people. 2. women should die

177. 177
##### Algernon

That being said, I don’t mind shirts like that. They let me KNOW I need to avoid that person. If only most assholes were kind enough to wear a sign, life would be simpler.

178. 178
##### Carlie

Muse etc. – here is the official statement by Veterans for Peace. It is beautiful in its sentiments trying not to vilify the police.

here

We need to keep in mind that police officers are in the same 99% as we are, providing the muscle, sweat, blood and money used by the 1% who own and govern. The most important thing we share with the police is our humanity. We appeal to police in every corner of America to maintain their humanity and think about it when they consider orders they are given.

179. 179
##### Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort

Good morning, too many awesome posts on FTB later and it’s already lunch time.

180. 180
##### Benjamin "One-Armed Paper Hanger" Geiger

Why do alt-med fuckwads piss me off so much? The comments here have a persistent moron.

1. The guy uses ad hominem attacks (in the original sense). So far he’s attacked James Randi for associating with someone who has been accused of identity theft (Jose Luis Alvarez), and attacked the CDC because one of their researchers was arrested for child porn.

2. He’s a True Believer: thinks the CDC and FDA are government conspiracies, thinks vaccines are intentional poisons, etc.

3. He keeps using the same nonsense table of supposed iatrogenic deaths, even after I posted a refutation. (In fact, I posted the refutation *before* he posted the table.)

*CRASH*

181. 181
##### Benjamin "One-Armed Paper Hanger" Geiger

“So Benjamin, when the unconstitutional CDC’s Lance Rodewald makes UN-scientific, slanderous statements against a WHOLE population of innocent people, then yes, I would consider it an ATTEMPT at dictating to us slaves: “Lance Rodewald, director of the CDC’s Immunization Services Division, says the measles outbreaks show a problem with state policies allowing home-schooled children to escape vaccines.” – http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-10-21-home-school-vaccinate_N.htm -”

*facepalm*

182. 182
183. 183
##### Benjamin "One-Armed Paper Hanger" Geiger

RevBDC:

The “kraut balls” sound pretty good, as do sweet tea pickles and fried cheesecake.

184. 184
##### Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort

@Rev BDC:

Fried, fried, fried, sugary, fatty, fried, fried.

About the only thing on that list I’d eat would be the dolma (save that it’s non-vegetarian and visually unappetizing.) The frozen Arnold Palmer looks pretty good, however, bet it’s highly sugary though.

185. 185
##### Algernon

I’m planning on going to the fair this weekend (I can finally go somewhere yay!)

I may try the fried kraut. The giant dolmas sound good too, although I’d prefer a platter of not-so-giant dolmas. Tamale balls are basically like kibbeh. Pretty good.

186. 186
##### Rev. BigDumbChimp

Yeah the sweet tea pickles were about the only thing that caught my interest.

Though I’ve had fried chicken skins before and when done right they’re good as hell.

187. 187
##### Algernon

I don’t really mind fried food. If you don’t eat a ton of it, don’t have stomach issues, and actually walk or ride things there.

Last time I was at the fair I ate something fried, but I actually walked off nearly 800 cal.

So really, I earned that thing :)

My days of food snobbery are soooo over.

188. 188
##### Paul W.

Quick informal poll:

1. Do you think that humans evolved from

a) apes
b) a shared primate ancestor with apes, but not apes, or
c) neither

2. Do you think that apes evolved from

a) monkeys,
b) a shared primate ancestor with monkeys, but not monkeys, or
c) neither

3. Which of the following is probably least closely related to most Asian monkeys

a) an African monkey
b) a South American monkey
c) a gorilla
d) a human being

Please, quick answers only for the moment, not explanations… and don’t go googling. I’m curious what the people here will say off the tops of their heads, based on what they’ve been told (and whether they believed it), rather than what they can figure out once I ask the question. I want to know what you thought five minutes ago.

189. 189

381. 381
##### Benjamin "One-Armed Paper Hanger" Geiger

Oh, and those 30 points?

That’s 30 points ON THE FINAL GRADE.

Seriously. So, if I made a 15, I can’t earn higher than an 85.

382. 382
##### John Morales

SC,

Have the Mollys been discontinued?

PZ put them into Mary’s care, since he was being slack about it.

(Apparently, a misguided move)

383. 383
##### Dhorvath, OM

Ah shit Benjamin, sorry to hear your day went so poorly. Give it some time, see what you actually got and take it from there.

384. 384
##### John Morales

Benjamin,

I took a Digital Image Processing exam today. Out of a possible 30 points, I made a *maximum* of 15, probably less.

Reality is harsh.

385. 385
##### Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

I took a Digital Image Processing exam today. Out of a possible 30 points, I made a *maximum* of 15, probably less.

What’s the overall context. I remember a physics grad student who only got a 10/100 on a test. That as an “A”, as the test was that hard.

386. 386
##### Alethea H. Claw

Also, catastrophising. So far you haven’t had your exam result so you don’t even know and already you’re imagining flunking out of uni. Maybe you underestimated yourself. Maybe everyone else did badly and the instructor will grade on a curve.

387. 387
##### Cannabinaceae

Benjamin, related to getting 15 out of 30, I concur with many of the others – put a damper on the catastrophism until you know more.

My all-time favorite professor ever repeatedly and clearly stated that he felt that part of his job was to assess the students, and thus he aimed to make his tests such that the average score was 50%. Plus, if too many students got 90% or better, he wasn’t able to assess his own teaching.

This did not stop the people who got, say, 60% or 70% (essentially, B’s and A’s), from having some kind of palpitations or little strokes or something.

I think I managed a 79% on one of his tests, perhaps 69% as a worst score. I once went to office hours and he asked me, “why are you even here?”.

Talk to the prof. It’s almost always a good idea in any case.

388. 388
##### Cannabinaceae

In other news, The Poodle Has Landed.

That is, we just brought home our new family member, whose life actually overlaps the Noodle Poodle by 10 days. OK, now I will weep again for the Noodle Poodle, whose name was Daisy, because until now she was the Best Of All The Poodles.

389. 389
##### Paul W., OM

Carlie,

Interesting – as I think about how I interpret it, if you say “monkeys” I assume you’re talking about extant ones, but if you said “monkey clade” I’d automatically include all of the extinct ones as well. Not sure why.

Yeah, that is interesting, especially since I don’t think your reading is at all uncommon—I think that’s why so many people answered “b” to the first question (apes evolved from a common primate ancestor, but not an ape).

I strongly suspect that this is mostly specific to discussions of simians.

If suspect I’d asked about whether birds evolved from reptiles, I don’t think that people would have read it that way—they’d have said “reptile, without worrying about whether birds evolved from extant reptiles, or some vague “common tetrapod ancestor, but not a reptile.” Of course it was a reptile. An extinct reptile, obviously, but surely some sort of reptile all the same.

I think that indicates that there’s something wrong with the way we talk about simian evolution, especially with noobs and especially given the political loadings.

Our side is often so intent on making it clear that we didn’t evolve from modern apes, and absolutely not from modern monkeys, that we make it sound like we didn’t evolve from apes at all—just some indeterminate “primate ancestor.”

Here’s an example, from the first evolution FAQ I googled up, which is at PBS and also linked from NCSE:

This is the very first question and answer, I suspect because it’s so commonly asked and people are so damned confused:

1. Did we evolve from monkeys?

Humans did not evolve from monkeys. Humans are more closely related to modern apes than to monkeys, but we didn’t evolve from apes, either. Humans share a common ancestor with modern African apes, like gorillas and chimpanzees. Scientists believe this common ancestor existed
5 to 8 million years ago. Shortly thereafter, the species diverged into two separate lineages. One of these lineages ultimately evolved into gorillas and chimps, and the other evolved into early human ancestors called hominids.

Note that it explicitly says we “didn’t evolve from apes, either.” We’re just vaguely “related to” them. (But not so much to those filthy monkeys.)

We fucking are apes, dammit, and so was grandma. The common ancestor in question was a fucking ape.

I’m pretty sure they’re consciously or unconsciously shying away from the “monkey” question so hard that they end up denying that we’re even apes.

And IMO they’re 99 percent wrong about monkeys, too. There is no sense in telling people that “humans didn’t evolve from monkeys” without saying that we evolved from something very, very monkey-like that scientists would probably flatly call a monkey if it was still around, and which many scientists would earnestly say was not just a monkey but the definitive example of a monkey—the nearest common ancestor of all the monkeys, more closely related to the extant monkeys than they are to each other.

But that comes way too close to agreeing with the creationists that our side says we “evolved from monkeys” and “are just monkeys.” (The former is basically true, and so is the latter, just not in the way they mean it.)

The writers are staying as far as they can from that hot potato, at the cost of denying the very most basic and interesting facts about simian evolution.

That’s destroying the village in order to save it.

Given the political loadings when trying to defend evolution to a mass audience, I have to guess that this was written by accommodationists, consciously framing their asses off, who were more interested in not giving the fundies red meat than in telling the very interesting truth.

I could be wrong, of course.

Either way, it’s disturbing to me how framing things that way can get so many of us to give the wrong answer to such a basic question, even when we obviously know better, as most people don’t.

How can we expect anybody else to get it right if our side talks that way?

390. 390
##### Carlie

Benjamin, there will always be one or two bad days or bad tests. I’d suggest talking to the professor about it.

We now say that “humans are a kind of apes,” and it doesn’t hurt anything.

We can say that “apes are a kind of monkey,” and that won’t hurt anything either.

But it’s not the same thing, phylogenetically speaking. If you look at a tree of apes, humans and chimps and bonobos are at the same node. Apes and monkeys, however, are on different nodes. Using a very strained analogy, the comparison would be that saying humans are apes is the same as saying my brothers and I are all Joneses, and saying that apes are monkeys is like saying that my brothers and I and our uncles are all Robinsons because the uncles’ last name is Robinson, and we’re descended from their group. It’s technically saying something that is true, but in a way that can easily lead to confusion.

391. 391
##### Cannabinaceae

Oh, and I wanted to mention that when I went back to school after a two-decade absence, the policy in essentially all of my classes was to “curve” the grades – the word “curve” meaning to simply give everybody free points to bring things up a bit.

Oddly, this was in everything – including computer science – except the physical sciences such as biology and biochemistry.

392. 392
##### Carlie

Given the political loadings when trying to defend evolution to a mass audience, I have to guess that this was written by accommodationists, consciously framing their asses off, who were more interested in not giving the fundies red meat than in telling the very interesting truth.

OOooohhh, I think I see what you’re trying to get at now. I’m going at it from a purely phylogenetic descriptive angle, and you’re trying to say how that has screwed up the way it’s communicated to the public. I’m a little dense sometimes.

393. 393
##### SC (Salty Current), OM

Rick Perry thinks the American Revolution was in the 16th century.

***

Congratulations on the poodle pup!

394. 394
##### Carlie

I wanted to mention that when I went back to school after a two-decade absence, the policy in essentially all of my classes was to “curve” the grades – the word “curve” meaning to simply give everybody free points to bring things up a bit.

Except that’s not an actual curve. I tell my students what one of my professors told our classes – you don’t want me to curve the grades. A curve really means to fit the class distribution to a bell curve, which means that a certain percentage of the class gets each grade. So, if an A is the top 10%, then only the top 10% of the grades get As even if 50% of the class scored, say, over 90 out of 100 on the test.

And yes, I am still bitter about the class I got an A- in even though I had a 93% for the semester because it was a small class and based on the curve only 3 students could get an A an I had the 5th highest grade.

395. 395
##### Cannabinaceae

Carlie: You recapitulate what I was trying to achieve with the scare quotes around “curve”. Probably in a way that communicates better than my own attempt.

Also, in my latter-day college interval, math was not “curved” either. Thank goodness my 20 year old calculus credits transferred, and I only had to take discrete math.

396. 396
##### The Laughing Coyote

OK, so I’m gonna be a monkey then.

hooray for primates!

397. 397
##### Carlie

Ah, I missed the quotes. I think I need more sleep.

398. 398
##### Rev. BigDumbChimp

Tim McCarver must die.

399. 399
##### Father Ogvorbis: It's Good for You. It Builds Character

I had a professor who added enough points to everyone’s grade so whoever had the highest grade got 100%. Which drove people nuts in a few of the clases when I got a 97 or 98 out of 100 possible. So the “curve” was only 2 or 3 points rather than the 20 or 30 points which was normal.

400. 400
##### ChasCPeterson

Tim McCarver must die.

*clenched-tentacle salute*

401. 401
##### ChasCPeterson

I learned to teach in a department where there were guidelines for curved grades: 15% (of students) A, 30% B, 45 % C. I once mentioned this to my mother, a teacher, and she said “oh, the Indiana Curve”. So I guess it’s a thing, or used to be.
Nowadays I tell students I’ll figure their grades both ways, the straight scale (90% (of total points)=A/80%=B/70C/60D) and the Indiana Curve, and report to the regisrar the higher grade. I find it generally makes little difference for A or B students, but the curve saves a lot of C students from Ds.

402. 402
##### John Morales

SC,

Rick Perry thinks the American Revolution was in the 16th century.

To be fair, the European invasion got going around that time.

(So very easily confused, those)

403. 403
##### Sally Strange, OM

DWTS update:

Chaz remains, despite low scores. Yay fan support!

Ricki Lake is a surprise front-runner. She seems to have gotten over her body insecurity pretty well.

The other person to watch is JR, the former soldier with burn scars all over his face, who’s also been on some soap operas and stuff.

Further surprise: the two most recent eliminations have been of skinny blond bombshells! I kinda liked Chynna Philips, but I’d rather have Chaz or JR on the show than her. They’re both far more interesting. The only sad part is that Chynna’s pro partner, Tony Davollani, is one of the sweetest guys on the show, and really deserves to win someday.

The latest “results” show features performances from one of my favorite artists, Raphael Saadiq. He’s like a modern-day reincarnation of the Motown stars of the 60s. He even wears bow ties. He’s truly awesome, but don’t take my word for it: check this out.

404. 404
##### Carlie

Nowadays I tell students I’ll figure their grades both ways, the straight scale (90% (of total points)=A/80%=B/70C/60D) and the Indiana Curve, and report to the regisrar the higher grade. I find it generally makes little difference for A or B students, but the curve saves a lot of C students from Ds.

Interesting – I’ll have to look up the Indiana curve. What I do is what a professor of mine does – start with the standard 90/80/70/60/50 division, but then look for natural breaks. The difference between up to a full percent or so is a small number of overall points, so if there’s a cluster right near the break then the whole cluster gets into that level. Example: the grade distribution is 92, 91, 90.5, 90, 89.7, 89.3, 88. Then everyone to the 89.3 gets the A cutoff, and the Bs start at the 88. I’ll dip down to cover an entire cluster, but I won’t force up so that someone who would have one grade with the standard division gets cut the wrong way and gets the lower score.

405. 405
##### ChasCPeterson

We’re not going to say “mammals are reptiles.”

Of course we’re not. Mammals are synapsids, the sister group to ‘reptiles’.

Both synapsids and reptiles are amniotes.

And reptiles includes birds.

Reptiles tend to have a lot in common with each other that they don’t with mammals or birds

Ectothermy. And anaerobic exercise metabolism.

the wildly ambiguous “animal.”

Kingdom Animalia is monophyletic and well defined. It includes sponges and jellyfish, though.

Wait, if humans ARE apes, then how can we NOT have evolved from apes (a) but only an ape-like common ancestor (b)? Did I misread something?

No. The correct answer is A. We evolved from apes. We evolved from monkeys. We evolved from fishes. And we evolved from deuterostome bilaterians.

of course, they all cook.

with gas, baby

the first evolution FAQ I googled up, which is at PBS and also linked from NCSE:

gah. It’s simply wrong, in my view.

How can we expect anybody else to get it right if our side talks that way?

you’re right, man

humans and chimps and bonobos are at the same node

no. Chimpanzees and bonobos are more closely related to each other (= share a more recent common ancestor) than either is to humans.

406. 406
##### Sally Strange, OM

No. The correct answer is A. We evolved from apes. We evolved from monkeys. We evolved from fishes. And we evolved from deuterostome bilaterians.

So, humans do not share a common ancestor with apes. Humans share a common ancestor with chimpanzees. This common ancestor of humans and chimps shared a common ancestor with apes.

407. 407
##### First Approximation, Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All

I remember a physics grad student who only got a 10/100 on a test. That as an “A”, as the test was that hard.

On the Putnam Mathematical Competition exam the median score each year is about 1 out of a possible 120 (i.e, half of the participants finish with a score of 1 or less). Those questions are insanely hard. My second year I got 10 out of 120 and it was enough to put me in the top 25%.

408. 408
##### Mattir

If I don’t stop arguing with that Indeterminate Fool in the red pill thread, I’m going to have to pith myself with a knitting needle or something.

I’m hopelessly behind in TET, but Laughing Coyote, what happened with the hunt with your brother?

409. 409
##### Tethys

Can anybody remind me of a good css add on for google chrome?

I need to killfile IM before he bores me to death with his blather and special theories.

410. 410
##### The Laughing Coyote

Mattir: We bagged three more grouse, one we roasted and ate in the field, and then just as we were going to smoke a joint on a hilltop, there it was.

Standing in full view was a deer. I knew instantly something was different about this one, it was larger than the does we were seeing, but its ears were up. These are Mule Deer, and they’re named for their huge ears.

My brother had to confirm through the binoculars to see the little two-prong antlers, but I already had a ‘feeling’ just from the way the animal was built. It was a young buck, and my brother was not letting this one get away.

Two surprise shots with the slug, and one final shot in the neck to make sure it wasn’t suffering, and the hunt was successful.

I’m a modern primitive, and I can’t call myself an atheist. When on the hunt, I pray. To the same gods the Neanderthals did, I like to think. I consider myself an agnostic critical thinker, but hunting is ‘different’ for me.

I had some blackberry wine with me, of my own brewing, and the first thing I did was splash some on the deer’s head, you know, to ‘propitiate’ them hunt-gods and all that. (Hey, at least my own private irrationalities don’t involve torture or genocide in their 26 year history), and then we both took a swig to seal the deal.

The deer was skinned and butchered that night in this basement. I used my survival sword of my own making (pic if anyone wants it) to do a lot of the heavy work. The skin I saved and did my best to brain tan. I know it won’t rot, but the hide is barely supple enough to be called leather (I left the hair on, if that makes a difference). It’s hung up above the fireplace in my brother’s room. The skull was defleshed and is now in the process of rotting out. The meat has been cut up and frozen, and I’m proud to say we wasted as little of the beast as we possibly could. The scraps that accidentally got a bit of stomach matter on them were thrown to the dogs, who never seemed more interested in anything we’d done before. It’s easy to see the dingo breeding in a cattle dog, when it stares at a hanging deer carcass.

We roasted a hint leg for our ‘thanksgiving’ dinner, and it was absolutely delicious. I thought lamb was my favorite meat, but it is now second.

411. 411
##### Inane Janine, OM, Conflater Of Arguments

Tethys, do not worry about it. Ninety nine percent of humanity is too stupid and closed minded to appreciate IM. It is our collective lose.

412. 412
##### Mattir

I have to go back to cleaning the house for the Rhinebeck-bound guests tomorrow night. Which is a good thing, because IM is going to cause me to develop seizures or something. He’s like the intellectual version of a strobe light.

TLC, I totally understand. I’ve slaughtered domestic animals (chickens, sheep) and had the same sort of atavistic impulses. And I help field-dress the deer taken in our community deer management hunt, which somehow manages to keep the deer population at “only” 7-8 times what ecologists say would be the healthy population for the ecosystem.

Night, all. And if you see me respond to IM any more, please instruct me to use a bigger knitting needle on the pithing project.

413. 413
##### Tethys

Janine, but its totally our fault for not ascribing to his mythical power model versus the privilege model.

And of course when asked to back up his claims he can’t because thats just not how he wants to discuss things and only Louis understands him.

414. 414
##### Sally Strange, OM

My goodness, look at the time. Hell, I’m still going to make cookies.

I just made a large pot of white bean, sausage, carrot, kale, cabbage soup. It is spicy and tasty. The sausage was spicy, plus I added chili pepper. Yum!

415. 415
##### Tethys

TLC

I am totally getting your hunting rituals. I can’t believe in any god/bible nonsense.

But I’ve always felt the need to honor life/nature as sacred.

Sally

That sounds delicious. Now my belly is demanding cookies.

416. 416
##### Giliell, connaiseuse des choses bonnes

From the christian views on slavery

…and freed them if injured….

i.e. kick them out when they couldn’t win their bread anymore. Jep, sounds like christians.

And of course when asked to back up his claims he can’t because thats just not how he wants to discuss things and only Louis understands him.

Is that because Louis is a self-identified male poster?

417. 417
##### theophontes , flambeau du communisme

@ Gen #338

Zef my China.

You can not even imagine how appropriate that comment is.

@ Sally #353

There’s a number of African leaders one could say that about, yes?

Definitely. I think immediately of Patrice Lumambo (murdered) and Samora Machel (Not all good in the early years though. He later moved his orientation towards the West, but was killed in an air crash. Possibly murdered. His widow, Graça, is married to Nelson Mandela).

Although removed from power, Cetshwayo was very popular (even in England) and was in fact (partially) put back in power later, though too little too late to do much good. (This time his tribal enemies and Boer mercenaries put him out of power.) He had the intelligence and vision to carry through and establish a modern Zulu state, but was let down on every side.

@ arids #364

Ook!

Translation from Afrikaans: “Me too!” (lit: “Also!”)

418. 418
##### Tethys

Is that because Louis is a self-identified male poster?

Louis did manage to somehow take IMs hopelessly muddled and confused post, and put it into a point by point list.

But IM then proceeded to ignore and/or insult just about everybody who tried to engage him, perhaps it was just a coincidence that most of them are self-identified female. Probably not, but it is possible.

Pteryxx was demolishing his (IMs) poor arguments last time I looked in.

419. 419
##### Sally Strange, OM

Cookie anybody? I made ‘em with chocolate chips, oatmeal, coconut, and pecans. Also I used only brown sugar, so they’re very chewy. I just ate 4 of them. With milk. Fresh from the oven. Yummers.

I’m going to put some in a care package for StrangeBoyfriend.

Today I made an appointment with a therapist. Also I went to the gym. Baby steps!

420. 420
##### theophontes , flambeau du communisme

@ Sally

chocolate chips, oatmeal, coconut, and pecans

*drools*

@ Audley

I see Emery’s African cousin has joined the NTC loyalists…. Linky: EpicLybianTurtle

421. 421
##### Gen, The Longest Tealdeer Around.

@vanshee, 374

Yes, a teal deer is for tl;dr or “too long; didn’t read”.

About feeling like you’re lying and policing your own thoughts and feelings for absolute objective verifiable accuracy at ALL TIMES, NO SUBJECTIVITY ALLOWED IN HERE!:

Yes, I do something that sounds like what you described too.

It’s difficult, to have to constantly justify to yourself “listen, I’m not just making this up, this really is a problem in my life right now and I don’t have the resources to deal with it myself and I’m worth dealing with it!” can be impossible sometimes. Learning to recognize the unproductive self-talk and challenge it is really tough, and would probably necessitate some deep digging into why you feel that

a.) you can not trust yourself to be truthful about something as inherently subjective as feelings
and
b.) you have to be able to verify and justify, preferably with objective data and evidence, why 100% of your thoughts and feelings and what you say MUST be ALL OBJEcTIVELY PROVEABLE TRUTH ALL THE TIME.

For me, having a compassionate but straightforward/blunt therapist who doesn’t hesitate to challenge me when she thinks I’m bullshitting helps A LOT. In fact, I would echo The Sailor and say that therapy is extremely helpful and for some (like myself), absolutely necessary either in conjunction with or even in stead of medication alone.

Of course, YMMV and not everyone has the resources to be able to access a therapist – I’m extremely lucky in that the place I work for has a health center with a fantastic therapist and the employer bears part of the cost and that this specific therapist luckily offers the exact blend of compassion and challenge I need.

And also, what helps on the long run is consistently seeing a therapist even when my ass isn’t bouncing off the walls *right now*. Which I haven’t been good about, as Pteryxx (I think) noted (not about me specifically, but about it being a traceable symptom).

@theophontes

LOL @ “ook”. I never even looked at it that way!

422. 422
##### The Laughing Coyote

I feel like watching Godzilla ’54 tonight.

In many ways, my favorite Godzilla movie (though I love G. vs Destoroyah almost as much if not more, its really hard to say.) True fans say this is where Godzilla’s soul resides.

Godzilla is one of my favorite monsters ever, and a powerful metaphor.

423. 423
##### theophontes , flambeau du communisme

Maps, beautiful maps: Noise mapping of London.

Did I ever post about my urban spatial mapping using turtles?

424. 424
##### Sally Strange, OM

urban spatial mapping using turtles?

Though it’s well past bedtime for me. I’ll check in the morning/afternoon.

425. 425
##### Gen, The Longest Tealdeer Around.

Okay, the homebirth thread on DrIsis has got me really, really depressed and upset now.

I mean I get that some of the research says that the risks increases if you birth at home, but since when is it okay to decide on behalf of other women what level of risk they must deem as an acceptable level for loss of bodily autonomy?

Do factors like previous sexual assault play no role in how a birth goes and what choices a pregnant woman make with regards to birthing? So now, just because a babbee may be slightly more (SLIGHTLY) more at risk, the incubator’s trauma doesn’t matter?

I mean, women already get held responsible if anything happens to a precious babbee during pregnancy and/or birth whatever they do or don’t do, so do we now get to pile on those women because, unlike “us”, they didn’t make the “right” (right for ME, that is!) choice?

My feminism will be intersectional or it will be bullshit.

Gah, going to smoke and clear my head.

426. 426
##### theophontes , flambeau du communisme

@ Sally

I have been meaning to write a blog post (me.blog. hahaha) about this to do it justice. I’ll try and dig up some of the old ideas and post here. The “turtles” are not real turtles though (*sniff*) they are autonomous agents within a massive parallel programming routine. It is easier to describe by calling them turtles (a la “Starlogo”).

Imagine a big maze that turtles can walk about. It is covered with white tiles and approximates the streets of a city (yup, it can be huge!). Now the turtles wander about randomly according to a turtle’s wont. The turtles are rather dirty and rub off on the tiles, so that the most intensely turtled parts are darker than the less turtled parts. The darkness of the tiles after a few days, gives you the intensity of use of the various parts of the “turtle city”. This (*TADDAH!*) corresponds as a function of the spatial structure of the city. (ie: Use corresponds to the underlying structure! The turtles essentially plot the spatial hierarchy of the city. The results correspond to Hillier’s space syntax methods, but should be much simpler to process (hence cheaper).)

(The turtles are pseudo-random in their antics, rather than purely random. This is a problem with computers not cities, but I don’t think it makes that much difference anyhow.)

427. 427
##### Carlie

no. Chimpanzees and bonobos are more closely related to each other (= share a more recent common ancestor) than either is to humans.

Cool – when did that come out? The textbook I use has them as unresolved, and I haven’t seen any updated info.

428. 428
##### SQB

On monkeys, humans and apes:

In Dutch, they’re all called ‘apen’. According to the Dutch Pft, this corresponds to the Simiiformes or Simians.

Apes are called ‘mensaap’, which literally translates to ‘human monkey’.

429. 429
##### ChasCPeterson

This common ancestor of humans and chimps shared a common ancestor with apes.

with the other extant apes, yes.
{orangutans [gorillas ({chimps+bonobos} humans)]}

Carlie, ‘kipedia sez

Recent DNA evidence suggests the bonobo and common chimpanzee species effectively separated from each other less than one million years ago.[26][27] The chimpanzee line split from the last common ancestor shared with humans approximately six to seven million years ago. Because no species other than Homo sapiens has survived from the human line of that branching, both Pan species are the closest living relatives of humans and cladistically are equally close to humans.

and the 2 citations are from 2004.

430. 430
##### Sally Strange, OM

The results correspond to Hillier’s space syntax methods, but should be much simpler to process (hence cheaper)

Dig Hillier’s space syntax work. Tried to get my state agency interested in it last year, but like you said, it’s complicated. I’d love to read that blog post.

431. 431
##### Giliell, connaiseuse des choses bonnes

In Dutch, they’re all called ‘apen’. According to the Dutch Pft, this corresponds to the Simiiformes or Simians.

Apes are called ‘mensaap’, which literally translates to ‘human monkey’.

Wait, you mean lif