Feb 24 2013

Reply to Way Of The Master (Ray Comfort)

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Today I received a message from Ray and Kirk’s organisation.

I assume that the video they’re referring to is this one from 2008.

I went to the trouble of writing a nice reply, but when I hit “send”, I discovered that those silly-billies at thewayofthemaster forgot that they’ve blocked everyone from sending them messages!

So, I’ll have to submit my reply to them here in the hope that someone can find a way to pass it on to them.

My response:

Hi there,

Thanks for your kind salutation and wishes. I reciprocate them.

Which video are you referring to? I made one called “Ray Comfort Meets the Evangelist’s Nightmare” back in 2008, but only used still images from the infamous “banana” clip, and used audio from a different source. (I seem to recall sitting through about 90 minutes of Ray’s preaching before he finally and predictably got to the “Ever told a lie?” bit! Talk about suffering for one’s art!)

I understand that your material is copyright protected, but I’m sure you’re equally aware of the fair-use clauses of copyright laws that allow for commentary and critique.

If it is indeed that 2008 video that you’re talking about, then I would simply say that I’d have a strong case that any usage of your copyrighted material is covered under such a clause. Especially given that I take Ray’s exact words, and use THEM back at Ray to prove to him that the argument that he is constructing is so weak, illogical, and unconvincing, that even he himself would never accept it if it were coming at him from another religion. (Have you ever worn silk? or gold? Why aren’t you worried about being cursed by the Islam god? Think about it!)

Indeed, if I didn’t have audio of Ray himself saying the exact kinds of things that I then later say back to him in the video, people would surely accuse me of straw-manning, for lampooning such a stupid argument without citing it exactly!

The use of the audio of Ray’s voice is certainly a vital and justified element of my satirical video comment on one of Ray’s favorite rhetorical devices (“Ever told a lie?”), and I can’t see any objective body of arbitration finding against me if it were to come before them.

So, with respect, if it is indeed the “Ray Comfort Meets the Evangelist’s Nightmare” video that you’re referring to, I’d have to say that I won’t be taking it down voluntarily, as I’m sure I have used whatever material of yours I’ve used well and truly within the scope of any and all applicable laws. Test it out if you can be bothered, though, by all means.

If Ray doesn’t want his recorded statements to be critiqued, satirised, or picked apart, then he oughtn’t say such ridiculously silly things.

NSC.

PS. Thanks for the link you sent, suggesting that I might appreciate it. I didn’t check it out, but then you’re similarly unlikely to check out the video I’m sending you hereunder. Forgive me if I’m wrong, but I assume that you probably believe in the literal truth of the Noah’s Ark account in Genesis, and in case it’s news to you, this vid will demonstrate that it is nothing more than an absurd magical fairy-tale that only the most gullible would believe. I present unto you, “Noah’s Ark”.

So, if any of you are friends with Ray or Kirk, pass this along, would you?

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23 comments

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1

oolon

February 24, 2013 at 11:56 am (UTC 0) Link to this comment

They are clearly idiots in terms of what they believe and preach, but I don’t think they are marketing idiots. In fact the substance can be as dumb as they like as long as its packaged up and presented in the right way. Which makes me wonder why they sent this take-down email? They know it only stirs things up on youtube especially so what do they gain… Nasty atheists mis-using their copyrighted material and the law is so anti-christian it does nothing to help or something?

Anyway nice reply and I wouldn’t have been as polite in the P.S. section.
2

Ulysses

February 24, 2013 at 12:28 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment

I seem to recall sitting through about 90 minutes of Ray’s preaching before he finally and predictably got to the “Ever told a lie?” bit! Talk about suffering for one’s art!

Your dedication is an inspiration to all of us.
3

robertcargill

February 24, 2013 at 4:01 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment

Nonstamp,

Your claim of “fair use” that allows for commentary and critique of copyrighted materials appears to be sound.

Within sections 107-118 of the copyright law (Title 17 of the US Code) Section 107 deals specifically with the issue of “fair use”. It reads: http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107

“…the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright.”

There are a few tests that can be run in order to ensure you are within the parameters of the Fair Use clause, which you easily pass because:

1) The purpose and character of the use is not for commercial gain or profit. The video is available for free, not restricted by a “paywall”. You are not profiting from the sale of copyrighted material (as the video is available for free).

2) Your video is being used for educational informational purposes only.

And, if there are any questions about the educational merit of your videos, I can state that I employ this and other of your free videos in my University of Iowa Religious Studies courses to demonstrate to students logical fallacies employed by many making religious claims.

In addition, the United States Copyright Office states very clearly that: http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

“The 1961 Report of the Register of Copyrights on the General Revision of the U.S. Copyright Law cites examples of activities that courts have regarded as fair use: “quotation of excerpts in a review or criticism for purposes of illustration or comment; quotation of short passages in a scholarly or technical work, for illustration or clarification of the author’s observations; use in a parody of some of the content of the work parodied; summary of an address or article, with brief quotations, in a news report; reproduction by a library of a portion of a work to replace part of a damaged copy; reproduction by a teacher or student of a small part of a work to illustrate a lesson; reproduction of a work in legislative or judicial proceedings or reports; incidental and fortuitous reproduction, in a newsreel or broadcast, of a work located in the scene of an event being reported.”

Your video falls squarely under multiple exceptions, including “quotation of excerpts in a review or criticism for purposes of illustration or comment”; “use in a parody of some of the content of the work parodied”; and of course, “reproduction by a teacher or student of a small part of a work to illustrate a lesson”.

Thus, any claim that you are violating the copyright of YouTube videos uploaded by Mr. Cameron’s “Way of the Master” organization are false, and can be demonstrated to be so in court if necessary.

(And if you need someone to testify on your behalf, give me a call.)

Cheers,

Dr. Robert R. Cargill
Assistant Professor of Classics and Religious Studies
The University of Iowa
4

JimDiver

February 24, 2013 at 10:47 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment

Morons need to read the YouTube TOS.

6.C

For clarity, you retain all of your ownership rights in your Content. However, by submitting Content to YouTube, you hereby grant YouTube a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicenseable and transferable license to use, reproduce, distribute, prepare derivative works of, display, and perform the Content in connection with the Service and YouTube’s (and its successors’ and affiliates’) business, including without limitation for promoting and redistributing part or all of the Service (and derivative works thereof) in any media formats and through any media channels. You also hereby grant each user of the Service a non-exclusive license to access your Content through the Service, and to use, reproduce, distribute, display and perform such Content as permitted through the functionality of the Service and under these Terms of Service. The above licenses granted by you in video Content you submit to the Service terminate within a commercially reasonable time after you remove or delete your videos from the Service. You understand and agree, however, that YouTube may retain, but not display, distribute, or perform, server copies of your videos that have been removed or deleted. The above licenses granted by you in user comments you submit are perpetual and irrevocable.
5

Noah Buddy

February 24, 2013 at 10:57 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment

Living Waters Publications sent me the SAME EMAIL. I guess they are trying to silence any critic of them. You can bet that if a Christian had anything from Ray Comfort on their youtube channel, they wouldn’t say a thing.

Ray Comfort demonstrates once again that he is a hypocrite. He claims to respect free-speech, but will in an instant try to subvert anyone who proves the little bastard wrong.

But then, so what else is new?

W01F
6

Helmi

February 25, 2013 at 12:15 am (UTC 0) Link to this comment

My (imagined) response:

Hey there,

Thanks for noticing my video! You may not have known, but it is legal to use clips of copyrighted material for the purpose of comment, criticism, and parody, as has been done in this case. Thus, the video will not be removed. I’m sure you meant no harm by this misunderstanding of the law, and you won’t be sending anyone else such messages in the future.

Best wishes,
(you)

PS: God has many fan sites, but none of them seem to originate from him. Instead they seem to be nothing more than chain letters that use mental tricks and games to bypass one’s reason – something that a real God would never need to do. Your site seems to be an example of this.
7

Opera Arches

February 27, 2013 at 7:18 am (UTC 0) Link to this comment

the great theatre of ruin

arrogantatheist.com/forum/index.php?p=/discussion/3164/the-mayan-skeptic-apocalypse
8

Nothing

February 27, 2013 at 4:18 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment

Anyway, NSC. Be sure to have a copy of your video available in case they file a DMCA so we can mirror it like there’s no tomorrow.
9

Vera Simmons

February 27, 2013 at 4:22 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment

Many come to Christ through Way of the Master, however many are hostile/belligerent/arrogant and condescending! HELL is prepared to those who don”t humble themselves on earth! BELIEVERS~heaven UNBELIEVERS~hell
10

some bastard on the net

February 27, 2013 at 6:15 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment

Well, Vera, you know what they say: Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.

Now kindly piss off.
11

Kes

February 27, 2013 at 7:46 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment

That’s some really excellent passive-voice construction there, Vera Simmons. “HELL is prepared [for] those who don[']t humble themselves on earth!”

…

“is prepared”

By whom, pray tell? By whom, Vera?
12

Marcus Ranum

February 27, 2013 at 10:33 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment

HELL is prepared to those who don”t humble themselves on earth!

My family comes from just south of Hell. That’s why I always laugh when someone says “a cold day in Hell” — they’ve never experienced Norwegian winters. It’s a nice place otherwise, no need for humility.
13

grumpyoldfart

February 28, 2013 at 9:28 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment

@ Vera Simmons #9

Be aware that Comfort is not even slightly interested in having you defend his name in public debates. As far as he is concerned, your sole task is to pay your tithes, on time, every week. As long as you remain gullible enough to do that, you will have served your purpose.
14

N. Nescio

March 1, 2013 at 4:57 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment

Between this and Ray’s “call to arms” on facebook I’d say they’ve accomplished what they set out to do: get people talking about Ray Comfort again, instead of him being yet another crank in the background.
15

Dave Johnson

March 2, 2013 at 2:53 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment

the great theatre of ruin

dissidentsphilosophy.alldiscussion.net/t396-the-great-theatre-of-ruin
16

travisrm89

March 4, 2013 at 1:24 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment

I went to the link that was in the email (www.needgod.com). It has a quiz with the usual questions that are designed to show you that you’re a sinner, and it gives a score showing how well you did on the quiz. What made me laugh is that it says “Note: your score will not be recorded, so please print this for your records.”
17

James Hafseth

March 5, 2013 at 3:22 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment

Oh, that NeedGod is clever: question 8 asks if you’ve ever broken the first commandment. If you answer yea, you’ve obviously failed and are destined for hell (unless presumably the site owners step in to save your soul). If you answer no, you are smugly informed that the bible tells us NO-ONE has honoured the first commandment (and presumably that’s a future-proof statement), so you’re still guilty. Plus, answering no makes you a liar, so you’ve broken the false witness commandment too.
18

Rain

March 5, 2013 at 7:01 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment

So, if any of you are friends with Ray or Kirk, pass this along, would you?

Yeah sure Mr. person that would never subscribe to me in a million years if my frekin life depended on it. If the bleeping frickin frackin hell froze over, and the seven seas turned into a giant salami, you would still never subscribe to me in a million bleepin frekin years. Sure I’ll be glad to do favors for snobby-assed people. No problem.
19

DerKlempner

March 9, 2013 at 8:36 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment

@Rain:

U mad bro?
20

mathema

March 13, 2013 at 9:15 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment

Lol, your reply is great.

What the heck is wayofthemaster? Is that like a Ninja Gaiden club, where perhaps they all have received the “Way of the master ninja” achievement? Hmm, I’d quite like that group.

Oh never mind, I see.
21

Oakley Holbrook

March 16, 2013 at 1:32 am (UTC 0) Link to this comment

With all these mouths to feed, he didn’t know what to do.Did you fight with others? Of course!But I plan to weed the yard today.I caught the last bus.That might be in your favorThat might be in your favorI feel like eating an ice-cream.You did fairly well!Why don’t you attend an aerobic class?
22

Oakley Holbrook

March 23, 2013 at 2:03 am (UTC 0) Link to this comment

What we read influences our thinking.Yes，I suppose So.His looks are always funny.Tom and Mary congratulated us on the birth of our daughter.So do I.I do not care whether it rains or not.I do not care whether it rains or not.May I use your pen? I am afraid that l have to go.He is crazy about Crazy English
23

Muntaser Majthoub

March 23, 2013 at 5:01 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment

I am sure they know that they have no case, this is clearly as robertcargill pointed out fair use.

My only concern is youtubes practice seems to be “take it down now, ask questions later”.