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Apr 04 2013

You just don’t get it!

A group of women have set up a Facebook page called Muslim women against FEMEN…. Muslimah Pride Day.

They just don’t get it (or obviously choose not to).

On a day that has been set aside to defend a 19 year old woman who has been threatened by an Islamist with death by stoning, detained, drugged and restricted from communicating with her friends and FEMEN all for merely for expressing herself, they choose to mark the day by calling on women to oppose FEMEN and to veil.

As I have said before, nudity is the antithesis of veiling. Also it is clear that you cannot defend women’s rights and defend Islam and Islamism at the same time. You have to choose. FEMEN and we have chosen to side with women’s rights and equality; they have chose to side with the veil, Islam and Islamism no matter what it does to those who do not submit.

Long Live Amina!

26 comments

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  1. 1
    Patty Debonitas

    Well I just saw this and went to the FB page and it just made me furious.
    Here is the comment I put on their page, they have a photo with a woman’s mouth taped up with the words ‘silence is complicity’. Yes their silence is.

    Well I guess you choose to be silent about the death by stoning threats that have been made against Amina. As your picture states so clearly, you are complicit in her prosecution and you are a shame to everyone who fights for the rights of all women. Obviously your ridiculing of Femen shows that you are not interested in international soldiarity, that you cannot and don’t want to engage with others that might have different ways from you but who are actually doing more for women than you and your ‘muslim nationalism’ you are portraying here. You don’t seem to care about death threats and freedom of expression! Shame on you for not defending Amina and for spitting in the face of those who come out in solidarity of all women.

    1. 1.1
      Deborah Jamil

      Well said. Excellent comment. Thank you.

  2. 2
    Omar

    Yeah well theres a minimal reaction reallly but you’d expect that.

    Another flat note FEMEN hit this week.. This Go Rape Yourself action they had.

    http://vimeo.com/62510968

    A few female friends were pretty appalled by that.

    Then she shares this with me:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/03/26/topless-tunisian-femen-protester-amina-tyler-home-well-lawyer_n_2954864.html

    It only has a lawyer say that Amina is at home so don’t take that as confirmation. There should be a statement or a press conference.

    I thnk the Huff Post has been pretty crap on this whole story trying to use it to drive a wedge in there. The action on the mosque didn’t help though.

    Hope we get a full story on Amina soon, I’m not relying on that its sourced from Tunisia..

    1. 2.1
      Maryam Namazie

      I’ve posted on this before; the lawyer is representing the family’s interests not Amina’s. She has admitted that she isn’t Amina’s legal representative. The most accurate news we have is of the one journalist who managed to speak with her She is being detained by her family, has been drugged and beaten and cannot communicate with others. She was not even allowed to return to school. It’s illegal to hold someone against their will but then we live in a topsy turvy world. She is detained and her family and the Islamist are free…

      1. Yusuf

        What I don’t understand is how is standing outside a mosque half naked helping Amina? I mean to be fair the Muslims in those mosques had noting to do with her issue. Why not go and protest in front of the Tunisian embassy or consulate… And also I don’t agree with “you cannot defend women’s rights and defend Islam and Islamism at the same time.” The two are not mutually exclusive. Do your research, don’t just follow the media narratives.

        1. Maryam Namazie

          I think they are mutually exclusive. You can be a Muslim or an atheist and defend women’s rights. of course. That is one of my main points always. But you cannot defend Islam and Islamism and also defend women’s rights because they are antithetical to each other. If you want to defend women’s rights from an Islamic perspective it just doesn’t work. Because women’s rights go beyond that which is religiously sanctioned. Moreover religious sanctions violate plenty of rights and is fundamentally misogynist. Islamism is altogether another matter – it is misogyny and barbarity with political power; there is nothing pro-woman about it – quite the opposite.

          Defending women’s rights has to be done from a universal and secular perspective.I don’t want rights Islam has “given me”; I want more than that.

          On why it is in front of a mosque, well there is much debate on that. I will try and write more on it separately.

        2. Hari

          I have done my own research and the Muslims doest not realize this. I found these things from sites that are maintained by Muslims, Just to quote 1 http://www.clearquran.com/quran-chapter-004.html
          You cannot defend Islam and women rights at the same time because Quaran had given men more power than women . It give men power to beat women(4:34). ” As for those from whom you fear disloyalty, admonish them, and abandon them in their beds, then strike them. ” So men treated women as long as women obeyed men.
          It treated women as 1/2 of men . Daughter inherited only half of what is inherited by a Son.
          Most of activities taken by Muslims to defend Islam , has reveled the true face of Islam the misogyny , and intolerance theories that is harmful to human race
          Just go to face-book page https://www.facebook.com/events/405975192834405/?ref=3 and see the page-cover. It is a picture of a women that covered her mouth with a slogan ‘silence is complicity’ , But this is from a group who promote that women should always cover their faces as long as they are in public place.

  3. 3
    Larry Carter Center

    cults are cults whether worshipping an alleged Allah or Buddhah or Krishna or Vishnu or Moses or Jeebush…. we must confront such cults where ever they pretend they should get equal rights to abuse and extort from other people not yet in the clutches of such religious fanatic cliques….we should not allow them into banks or anywhere a mask could be used to commit a robbery… their so called faiths are criminally abusing women and no one should be allowed to pass safely past our demands that cults end abuse of all members & victims of the cults

    1. 3.1
      Maryam Namazie

      Larry people have a right to religion and belief even if you don’t like it or think it makes sense. Plenty of people don’t think your beliefs make sense. I for one don’t agree with you but I can’t now demand that you not be allowed in the public space. The point is that irrespective of our beliefs we are citizens that must be equal. I think religion is just a cult that has become mainstream but it doesn’t matter. People can believe what they want. What matters is that religion be separated from the law not people.

  4. 4
    Mirko

    so now the muslims women dont accept someone fight for your,im confused

  5. 5
    Anna Rocha

    Do you know Femen is a fascist, racist so called feminist group, right?

    1. 5.1
      Mirko

      i understand now.

    2. 5.2
      whatever

      You should explain why you think so rather than just proclaim something to be the case, though.

      1. Anna Rocha

        I’ll do better than this:

        FEMEN JOINED FASCIST FOOTBALL FANS AGAINST GALATASARAY FANS

        On August 25th 2010, Femen joined forces with the Karpaty Lviv FC fans and released a statement against Galatasaray fans and against turkish people in general. In an Europa League game against Galatasaray on 26 August 2010, FC Karpaty Lviv fans used a Celtic cross banner with racist insults on it. The UEFA fined FC Karpaty Lviv 25.000€ for racist demonstration.

        http://www.ihrpex.org/en/article/355/uefa_oshtrafovala_karpaty_za_rasyzm_bolelschykov

        The statement was translated by google so there will be some errors, but you can have a general idea of Femen’s speech regarding turkish people.

        “The movement FEMEN in the eve of the match between Lviv “Karpaty” and Turkish “Galatasaray”, refers to the Lviv city council to ban fans “Galatasaray” from visiting the city. We call all fans of “Karpaty” to support our initiative and not let the “Turkish macho” boss around at the cultural capital of Ukraine.We are confident that the arrival of Turkish fans at the game with the “Karpaty” will increase prostitution and sex tourism in the city of Lviv.

        Turkey has long been an area of sexual slavery for Ukrainian women, and the Turks are the main consumers of sexual services in Ukraine. According to our statistics together with the Institute of political, social and marketing research, 52% of young Ukrainian girls received obscene suggestions from the Turks.

        Such stringent measures may be a test for the Ukrainian authorities in the future of the European Football Championship, in which the influx of sex tourists will increase. If you do not stop this, we risk turning millions of Ukrainian girls into sexy targets for tourists in 2012.FEMEN wants to insist that only the penalization of clients for Euro 2012 will prevent the “brothelization” of Ukraine.

        The initiative is supported by the bill number 5223 of October 14, 2010, which is still under consideration in the Supreme Council of Ukraine.We hope that the well known Lviv patriotism and integrity of the institution will rid football of those so-called football fans.”

        At the picture, Inna Shevchenko and Karpaty-Lviv fans (https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/544448_292374434228773_1411903038_n.jpg)

        http://femen.livejournal.com/2010/08/25/

        All the info was taken from this indymedia.de article: http://de.indymedia.org/2013/02/341366.shtml

        1. Maryam Namazie

          This was held in moderation because of all the links. I just saw it and approved it. I will ask Inna to reply if she wants and when she gets a chance.

          1. Anna Rocha

            Okie, please do. I’m very fonding of what she’s going to say. But well, if there’s much incredulity on these links, I suggest you to make a research on internet to see that’s not an isolated issue.

            I’m all in support with you when you say any religion shall be separated from the law not the people and we should be governed by humanistic and secular perspectives whether you embrace a religion or not. That’s why siding with femen worries me because they don’t make any difference between muslims and extremists from their own religion which have the power of political islam to oppress anyone.

            Even Caroline Fourest stated their demo in front of one of Paris based mosque waving a salafist flags was useless because this same mosque has a reputable of being moderate and have been attacked several times by the same salafists. So, I’m sorry but I don’t know how this helped Amina in any way. I think they should target, go after extremists as you wish, although I think they don’t care about women’s rights anywhere, than bullying some individuals for being muslim.

            I was in a protest held here in Brazil when Ahmadinejad came because I think he is one of many who personates the facism and oppression against muslim and non muslims in Iran. I don’t see femen protesting against him.

  6. 6
    Anna Rocha

    I’ll do better than this.

    FEMEN JOINED FASCIST FOOTBALL FANS AGAINST GALATASARAY FANS

    On August 25th 2010, Femen joined forces with the Karpaty Lviv FC fans and released a statement against Galatasaray fans and against turkish people in general. In an Europa League game against Galatasaray on 26 August 2010, FC Karpaty Lviv fans used a Celtic cross banner with racist insults on it. The UEFA fined FC Karpaty Lviv 25.000€ for racist demonstration.

    http://www.ihrpex.org/en/article/355/uefa_oshtrafovala_karpaty_za_rasyzm_bolelschykov

    The statement was translated by google so there will be some errors, but you can have a general idea of Femen’s speech regarding turkish people.

    “The movement FEMEN in the eve of the match between Lviv “Karpaty” and Turkish “Galatasaray”, refers to the Lviv city council to ban fans “Galatasaray” from visiting the city. We call all fans of “Karpaty” to support our initiative and not let the “Turkish macho” boss around at the cultural capital of Ukraine.We are confident that the arrival of Turkish fans at the game with the “Karpaty” will increase prostitution and sex tourism in the city of Lviv.

    Turkey has long been an area of sexual slavery for Ukrainian women, and the Turks are the main consumers of sexual services in Ukraine. According to our statistics together with the Institute of political, social and marketing research, 52% of young Ukrainian girls received obscene suggestions from the Turks.

    Such stringent measures may be a test for the Ukrainian authorities in the future of the European Football Championship, in which the influx of sex tourists will increase. If you do not stop this, we risk turning millions of Ukrainian girls into sexy targets for tourists in 2012.FEMEN wants to insist that only the penalization of clients for Euro 2012 will prevent the “brothelization” of Ukraine.

    The initiative is supported by the bill number 5223 of October 14, 2010, which is still under consideration in the Supreme Council of Ukraine.We hope that the well known Lviv patriotism and integrity of the institution will rid football of those so-called football fans.”

    At the picture, Inna Shevchenko and Karpaty-Lviv fans (https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/544448_292374434228773_1411903038_n.jpg)

    http://femen.livejournal.com/2010/08/25/

    All the info was taken from this indymedia.de article: http://de.indymedia.org/2013/02/341366.shtml

    1. 6.1
      Omar

      This is what I’ve been talking about. We need allies but this is not good for our movement.

    2. 6.2
      Rebekah, the Wily Jew

      Anna you “evidence” is complete nonsense.

      You do not even attempt to argument against any of FEMEN’s claims (which seem quite genuine) and you are basically smearing them because neo-Nazis happened to be protesting Turkish players for entirely different reasons.

      What you are doing is quite grotesque, but typical of the moral cowardice of those who invoke “racism” as a means of silencing debate. Once again women’s rights, in this case fighting sex trafficking, come second after your so-called ‘anti-racist’ agenda.

      When you can disprove FEMEN’s claims or show any demonstrable links between them and the fascists, get back to us. I won’t hold my breath.

  7. 7
    Deborah Jamil

    Instead of setting up a page to express incredulity at the fact that someone in the Muslim community can be threatened with death by a “religious” figure just for removing their shirt, they set up a page to go all “Muslim” on everybody and defend their “Muslimness”–ironical and totally predictable. The only attribute they are demonstrating is brainlessness! And when you look at the numbers, that’s scary.

  8. 8
    Aeneas Coffey

    Here’s how i commented the main post of their page:

    “So here’s why this makes me sad:

    there is a page “Muslim women against Femen” but there is no fb page “Muslim women in momory of Amina Filali” who killed herself when she was forced to marry her rapist. There is no fb page “Muslim women for Malala Yousafzai”, a little girl who stood up to Taliban bigotry and was shot by a bearded coward in response. There is no fb page “Muslim women in memory of Hena Begum”, a 14 year child lashed to death for “adultery”(???!!!) in Bangladesh.

    You join the crowd of accusers of a 19 year old who gets public shaming, for expressing herself against her bigot culture. But you are silent towards Adel Almi, who threatens her with lashing/stoning.

    You say that Femen doesn’t represent you, and that’s fine. Just don’t claim you represent women rights…. Just don’t.

    What you choose to protest speaks against you just as much as what you choose to silently ignore.”

    1. 8.1
      Omar

      I think you’ll find Malala Yousafzai has her own page and is blogging for the cause. She has a lot of Muslim women followers.

      The work never ends, we have a Muslim Women’s refuge and a housing association for Muslim Women in my city. There are many Muslim women’s rights activists but we need more.

      Especially when movements like the far-right are trying to hijack our cause against the Islamists. We need allies but we always need to be wary.

      1. Omar

        Just a thought to add. I’ve seen Muslim Women’s activists directly addressing on the following issues INSIDE Muslim communities:

        Domestic Violence
        Genital Mutilation
        Forced Marriage
        Underage Marriage
        Racism
        Gang Violence
        Acid Attacks…and a range of issues.

        They work in the community and address issues on the ground to change these ancient patriarchal attitudes bred by the religious and cultural backwardness that the far-right really just want to drag us back towards.

        We are seeking a global change on a similar level. For women’s rights to be advanced all over the world and that requires political pressure on certain governments and institutions aswell as real work within communities.

        1. Aeneas Coffey

          It’s all commendable and worth support. Still this facebook website is terrible. So many people not getting the point :/

  9. 9
    Malcolm Hunter

    I am not uncritical of Femen. I like their style and I think that their tactic of using their naked bodies, both to attract coverage and to make a point, is both entirely legitimate and very effective, in most of the contexts in which they deploy it (although I couldn’t see the point that it was making in one recent action, against neo nazis), but, although I am an atheist myself, I think that it is counter productive if you appear to be attacking everyone who is religious, rather than just those adherents of religion who presume to oppress others in its name and I do think that Femen do sometimes come over as doing this. I think that it is also a wrong to lecture others about what they should want, from outside, which Femen can also appear to be doing, at times, but these recent attacks on Femen, by the likes of Yvonne Ridley, do not come in this context, but in the context of them supporting someone (Amina) living in a religiousy dominated society, whose attempts to assert her rights has been met by death threats from people claiming to be speaking for Islam; and by imprisonment and forced medication by her family (albeit perhaps feeling that they are acting in her best interests). In this situation it is quite clear which side you should be on and; however much muslim women critics of Islam may assert that they are challenging Femen’s perceived suggestion that there is only one legitimate version of feminism, they are in reality acting as apologists for those reactionary strands in Islam that seek to oppress women.

  10. 10
    Malcolm Hunter

    Oops, I have just noticed a couple of typing errors in my message above, but hopefully my intended meaning is still discernable, but if it isn’t I have just posted a corrected version on my Facebook page, at http://www.facebook.com/huntermalcolm1?viewas=100000686899395&privacy_source=timeline_gear_menu#!/huntermalcolm1

  1. 11
    Femen | Marie-Thérèse O'Loughlin Goldenbridgeinmate39

    [...] You just don’t get it!             [...]

  2. 12
    In defence of nude protest: freedom is my culture » Maryam Namazie

    [...] their movement; for the abomination that is Sharia law, gender apartheid, and the veil. They are deafeningly silent on the death fatwa against Amina and countless others. And they are more concerned with defending [...]

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