@SecularlyYours recently did a ‘blasphemous’ photoshoot to the effect of the Nude Photo Revolutionaries.
Here is one of them:
To see her other photos, click here.
May 24 2012
The Koran between her legs
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About the Author
May 24 2012
@SecularlyYours recently did a ‘blasphemous’ photoshoot to the effect of the Nude Photo Revolutionaries.
Here is one of them:
To see her other photos, click here.
:)
116 comments
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Bernard Hurley
May 24, 2012 at 10:03 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
There’s something very disturbing and yet absolutely appropriate about that photo.
Dusty
May 24, 2012 at 10:13 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
This photo is the closest thing to a religious experience I’ll ever have.
RW Ahrens
May 24, 2012 at 10:46 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
It is a powerful statement. It should set the fundies off like fireworks!
christophernicholas
May 24, 2012 at 10:46 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
I think it’s hot. Because blasphemy is sexy.
Ophelia Benson
May 24, 2012 at 11:40 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
I know her!! She was at the Women in Secularism conference, and we had a great conversation at the reception. She is a pistol.
Louis
May 28, 2012 at 12:19 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
I’m impressed you recognise her from that photo!
Louis
P.S. I KNOW! I KNOW! But come ON! You expect me to let that joke pass? It’s an old classic, look, you can still see than hand stitched mammoth hide frogging. They don’t make ‘em like that any more.
Probably for good reasons.
Rafiq Mahmood
May 24, 2012 at 11:43 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
This reminds me of a story I just saw (in Indonesian) in which a Christian woman in Nigeria apparently gave birth to a baby clutching a miniature Quran. According to the credulous report the mother and grandmother promptly converted to Islam.
Of course, apart from telling us a lot about the state of education in both Nigeria and Indonesia, this does conjure up an equally improbable back story about this being Allah’s revenge on Papa for carrying a miniature copy of the Quran strapped to his dick out of inverse respect.
No, I don’t have any pictures of Papa wearing his Quranic condom.
Rafiq Mahmood
May 24, 2012 at 11:49 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Hmm. You really have my mind buzzing now. Quranic condoms. Now that’s an idea… “This is a perfect dick, there is no doubt in it, it is a blessing for the righteous…”
David Hart
May 26, 2012 at 1:56 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Hey, if you can fit a fair chunk of Bible on a rice grain, and the whole (Hebrew) thing onto a sliver sliver of silicon smaller than a sugar grain, I’m sure we could have the technology to print the whole Quran on a condom up and running with enough R & D investment.
http://listverse.com/2010/02/06/top-10-unbelievable-miniatures/
Moin
April 9, 2013 at 1:31 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Congrats jahannum(hell fire) is obligatory on you.who dont respect quran.allah doesn’t have mercy on them.
bernardhurley
April 9, 2013 at 2:46 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Oh, we’re all so scared that your non-existent psychopath in the sky will have no mercy on those who don’t respect some piece of trash written by an ignorant desert warlord. Why dont’ you just grow up?
Brian
May 25, 2012 at 12:49 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Gorgeous woman. I bet the mullahs are spitting chips….
muddyabbas
May 25, 2012 at 1:27 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
You have actually given a lot more respect to quran with this shot than I would ever do..
It belongs to sewer.. Actually not even there it will clog it..
Martyn N Hughes
May 25, 2012 at 4:09 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
I like this shot.
It is very similar to a shot I had in mind when I thought I could get a photographer for the nude revolutionaries calendar.
I thought about taking the Torah, Bible and Quran, stacking them on top of each other and posing nude with one foot on them.
It’s about reappropriation isn’t it?
Those political manifesto’s have taken human sexuality and bodies and tried to defile them.
Photographs like this are powerful statements, saying we are taking back what is ours, and no, there’ll be no shame attached in the process!
Amna
May 25, 2012 at 2:20 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Basically this woman desperately wants asylum in the west and is doing all this hoping someone will give her a fatwa. Once she gets the fatwa, she will submit an already prepared asylum application to many western countries. Mark my words. I know this woman.
I sincerely hope you don’t censor this Ms Namazie. I sincerely hope you let my comment stand. What I predict may just come true.
Bernard Hurley
May 25, 2012 at 2:40 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
If what you are saying is true then there is a very simple solution: Political Islamists should stop behaving like over-grown toddlers, stop having silly temper tantrums, stop their displays of crocodile tears and start behaving like civilised human beings, which means they should start treating women as equals and stop issuing fatwas.
Blueaussi
May 25, 2012 at 2:54 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
“Basically this woman desperately wants asylum in the west ”
Yay!
I desperately want more women like her in the west, the east, the north; and especially here with me, in the south.
Thanks for the link, Ms Namazie, I’ve added this bold and wonderful voice to my daily reading.
Bernard Hurley
May 25, 2012 at 3:06 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
It seems like yet another religious bigot has been telling porkies. Now why doesn’t that surprise me?
hyperdeath
May 25, 2012 at 3:13 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Even if true, I can hardly blame her. I wouldn’t want to live in some misogynistic pigsty either.
Maryam Namazie
May 26, 2012 at 11:56 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Amna we don’t censor people – it’s the Islamists and Islam that you support that censors. And can you stop playing the victim card? It’s getting boring.
Kashif
May 29, 2012 at 5:42 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
“Islamists” do but Islam does not support censorship. Just like atheism does not but militant atheists do. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTYrjFE6Rcg Thanks for being a part of this debate. I look forward to inviting you to discuss certain issues with you in coming days Ms. Namazie.
Secularly Yours
May 25, 2012 at 2:58 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Thank you, Maryam and everyone else!
Amna: Fallacies don’t make a strong argument. Also, I am already in the West. Don’t really need an asylum application, btw.
Amna
May 25, 2012 at 7:05 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
when is your visa expiring? one year? two? certainly not longer. youre a student after all. only asylum can guarantee that youll get to stay in the west for longer than your visa otherwise where will you go with your pakistani passport? very few options.
i suggest you try a better response than saying “fallacy!”
Bernard Hurley
May 25, 2012 at 7:41 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Amna, you seem to be a victim of Islamist propaganda. You seem to be under the impression that those who criticise Islam actually are racists and would like to see Alishba thrown out of the country. Personally, I don’t care if she is doing this in order to claim asylum or not, and, if she were, I don’t see anything particularly disreputable about it. Obviously you do, but in any case it surely pales into insignificance compared with the obscenity that is political Islam.
Secularly Yours
May 26, 2012 at 12:04 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Actually after OPT, I can easily get an H1B. So yeah.
AND: I’m sure (as we can see) the West would be happy to have me even if brutes from your country force me into applying for asylum.
BTW: The joke is not you, missy. Tell THEM not to give a woman no option but to move out of the land where her family, friends, and childhood memories are.
Shame on you, Amna. People like you are the reason that it sucks to be a woman from Pakistan.
Secularly Yours
May 26, 2012 at 12:09 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
I mean the joke on you *
Maryam Namazie
May 26, 2012 at 11:55 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
How ludicrous to think that people risk their lives jsut for their immigration status. It shows your low opinion of asylum seekers. You are pushing the line of the powers that be that say all asylum seekers are liars and scroungers. They’re not. In my opinion, anyone who wants not to live under Sharia law and Islamism – and there are many – must be granted asylum because of the barbarity of Islamism – a barbarity by the way that you are defending. Shame on you.
NoCanDo
April 9, 2013 at 8:14 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
asylum citizens ARE liars. i know 4 families who came here on political asylum and all 3 of them worked with the pakistani govt. their excuse was to get a quick way out of the country for a quick citizenship status. One represents MQM to the core, ones all for APN, the other is PML and ones all about the PPP.
my dads good friends with all those families which is the very reason i know such details about pakistan, their political parties and the fact that such liars and scroungers dwell outside the country’s borders.
i have pakistani friends and have no hatred for pakistanis in any sense. but when you come out your face to say that asylum seekers are not liars is very hypocritical (i literally LOL’d). all you commented on was how the countrys religious agenda runs deep with the politics when all 4 of these families are practicing sunni muslims.
shame on YOU for applying your blind vision on people seeking asylum. do your research and please go with some sort of ground work on who does what before justifying anyone elses actions/intentions
GOODBYE
Tx Skeptic
May 25, 2012 at 4:00 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
I immediately thought the “Vagina Manger” that Jon Stewart introduced the world to on the April 16 segment “The Battle for the War on Women”, start around 4:30.
Anything that pisses off Bill Donohue is fine by me.
Bjarte Foshaug
May 25, 2012 at 5:20 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
The most shameful part of this whole story, is that if these brave women ever manage to gain the equality they so thoroughly deserve, it will be absolutely no thanks to western liberals, who ought to be their most ardent supporters, but are instead focusing all their efforts on making it impossible to say anything against the ideology that’s oppressing them without being labeled a racist “islamophobe”.
chrisj
May 25, 2012 at 7:34 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Fixed that for you. Unless of course you think everyone here at FTB, along with those who work with Maryam Namazie in organisations like “Equal Rights Now” are all right-wing anti-liberals.
Bjarte Foshaug
May 25, 2012 at 7:51 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
I stand corrected.
Taru Dutt
May 25, 2012 at 9:42 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
It’s a pr-e-t-t-y large subset. So Bjarte is for many practical purposes correct. Legion are the “liberals” for whom Islam is above criticism.
alanflynn
May 25, 2012 at 7:13 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Vagina/Quran … bathos … from the sublime to the ridiculous. Anticlimax.
Farah
May 26, 2012 at 7:07 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
I might have respected her if I didn’t know, from seeing her interactions with others, that she kind of tends to love attention. She’s a feminist, but someone makes disgusting jokes encouraging violence against women and she doesn’t say anything, because the person making the joke called her hot.
The statement on her picture is also fallacious.
She’s also photoshopped this picture to no end. She isn’t bad looking. She’s cute. Why is she so ashamed of her skin colour, though? I’ve seen her pictures, she’s dark, typical, desi dark. Us desi women are beautiful because of our skin colour. Its nothing to be ashamed of. Why has she whitened her legs to look gori? This isn’t just lighting; I’ve seen professional photography, and proper lighting does not change the exact colour of someone’s skin. Her hands, her shoulders, her legs, her breasts, they’re shades lighter than her natural, desi colour.
Secularly Yours
May 26, 2012 at 8:30 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
a) No, I don’t know you.
b) Fallacy? This comment is ridden with ad-hominem.
c) I’m half pathaan. My skin color is a lot lighter than most Pakistanis unless I go tanning in the summer.
d) Calm down, lady
Secularly Yours
May 26, 2012 at 8:32 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
You have seen my pictures? Where? This is me without photoshop: https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/318546_10150361057290516_1162709987_n.jpg
Sarah KN
May 27, 2012 at 1:17 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
SHE IS JEALOUS OF UR BEAUTY ALISHBA
A Pakistani atheist
May 27, 2012 at 8:38 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
In the Pak atheists groups Alishba defends misogynists and men who make all sorts of vile remarks against women. So how can that be compatible with feminism? Which feminism is this? Defend the asshole feminism?
And if you are into identity politics then why are you hiding your face in the picture? Like a hair niqab!
Sarah KN
May 27, 2012 at 1:22 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
u only want to show her face becoz you want her to die. you fake atheist!
Secularly Yours
May 27, 2012 at 3:30 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
I defend their right to speak. If he can speak his mind, then only you can debate.
At the time when the picture was taken, I was a little scared (thanks to people like you) about physical and other personal attacks. My family is still stuck in your sorry country and I share some responsibility to protect them, despite being disowned.
That and thanks, Sarah!
These trolls need to get a life. Can’t even show their identity and are asking me to do something to get shot by the Mullahs they hypocritically oppose.
Kashif
May 27, 2012 at 5:59 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
//I defend their right to speak. If he can speak his mind, then only you can debate.//
I am surprised this statement comes from Alishba. She stopped me from exercising that right – blocked me from her twitter and now from her facebook. Why? Because I invited her to an open debate. I also accepted that she bring in Wafa Sultan or Namazie as judge of our discourse based on evidence and reason. She fled!
I use this forum to invite her to dialogue once again. Since I am pretty sure she will not accept my offer, I take this opportunity to invite anyone else on this forum to a debate.
Since the issue at hand is that the Koran is a bad book, we shall start by discussing ONE verse at a time or ANY verse that you feel is “bad”.
Alishba claimed Koran is anti-feminist but provided only 1 verse in evidence 33:35, which btw speaks of men and women on equal ground. She also said “there is no God” but when I invited her to discourse, she said I was stupid and of low intellect. I can reproduce the tweet exchange here, but that doesn’t serve the purpose.
The purpose is that Reason must win over prejudice and hate. I hope.
Rafiq Mahmood
May 27, 2012 at 6:31 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
I think all this personal stuff is very boring. Let’s return to the picture for a moment.
Compare the little piece of artifice – that book which claims to be the word of God and compare it with the masterpiece of living wonder that is holding it.
Compare the forest, the oceans, the mountains, and the vastness of the cosmos of which this tiny blue speck is a part with the Disney-like mosques, churches, synagogues and temples which claim to be the houses of God.
Compare the arrogant, vindictive and petty minded God character depicted in those texts which claim to be holy with the ancient and self-organising cosmos itself.
What greater arrogance, what greater blasphemy against reality can there be than religion itself?
Martyn N Hughes
May 28, 2012 at 2:03 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
^^^ I like this! ^^^
Secularly Yours
May 28, 2012 at 4:48 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Yay, Rafiq! ^_^
A group, on the other hand, is a public domain.
Thanks!
Also: Kashif got blocked because he was trolling. You can go on my Twitter @SecularlyYours or my facebook: facebook.com/azarmeen to scroll through the lack of intelligent debate & mere fallacies from his end. Its well within my right to block anyone from my PERSONAL profile
Kashif
May 29, 2012 at 5:22 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
I was not Trolling, but let’s say I was. Since you claim to support free speech and reason instead of prejudice and hatred, accept my offer here for a discourse.
I second “A Pakistani Atheist” I have many atheist friends myself. They are very reasonable, fun to engage in a discussion with. They do not abuse, curse and hate, unlike you. While I was inviting you to discuss your hugely prejudiced and unsubstantiated claims (which you could never provide references for)you were busy asking me to F*** off.
It is easier to abuse than to reason. This is exactly why I abhor the extremists of any faith or of no faith (e.g you). You do not represent atheism. Most atheists believe in discourse and reason and do not run away when asked to substantiate their claims.
I hope other atheists recognize the bad repute you bring to them. Let me be clear, I have no problems with your picture. I care a fig about it. I am neither impressed nor offended.
I agree there are extremists in every faith, just as there are in atheism. However, these extremists and their interpretations do not define faith, just like your prejudice and run from reason does not represent atheism. I invite you once again to discuss each issue you take exception to, One by One.
Namazie is a true atheist. She wouldn’t block me or delete my post. She believes in reason and argument. Learn from her and get back to me for if you do not have the guts to prove your hatred, you’d be seen as nothing but a hater.
Dialogue and Reason shall win over prejudice and hate. Anyday!
anubisprime
May 28, 2012 at 8:11 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Wonderful tasteful photo!
And the move by enlightened folk to critically and rationally challenge religious dogma and religious insecurity is the most mentally healthy and progressive reaction possible to encourage a fundamental reappraisal of the whole house of cards that delusion, intolerance and hatred is based on.
This would not have been possible a decade ago… it will be interesting to speculate what the atmosphere will be a decade from now?
These ground swells that challenge societal orthodoxy have a habit of morphing into tsunami sized sneezes.
Religion is not immune!
Fallacy
May 28, 2012 at 8:54 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Fallacy! Telling her to calm down is an ad homs! Her tone IS calm therefore also straw man.
Another fallacy: half Pathan therefore light. Many Pathans are dark. I come from a family of dark Pathans. Also racist to perpetuate stereotype that Pathans are light skinned.
People who have met you say that you are not as light as this has been photoshopped to appear like. Self hate is also a fallacy. Why not? Everything is. Yes, this is an ad homs.
And now, moving on from fallacy to STUPIDITY (another one of your favourite words): so in a fit of anger to prove you’re “not that dark” (racism alert!) you went ahead and posted a picture of your face. Two comments down you argue you can’t reveal your face because of your family. Yeah, ok that was NOT a stupid move. I repeat: that was NOT a stupid move at all.
I cannot stop laughing. Thank you for the constant entertainment!
Maryam Namazie
May 28, 2012 at 1:57 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
By the way, I know that both Fallacy and Another Pak Atheist are writing from the same IP Address so you are the same person. It’s funny how even you know you can’t get much support so you have to create various personalities to say the same nonesense? Try being honest for a change. I know it must be hard but if we can do it, you can too.
Another Pak atheist
May 28, 2012 at 9:00 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Kashif am not surprised you were blocked. Alishba is only tolerant of atheists who call her hot etc. you haven’t flattered her so obviously you’re not worth her time.
Wow how low does a woman’s self esteem have to be to let men make rape jokes etc simply because they are flatterers? Many of us in the Pak atheists groups see this all the time. The men who flatter her have the right to speak and say anything. They can make threats if they please. But those who don’t say Alishba is the best thing ever are idiots who should be silenced.
Maryam Namazie
May 28, 2012 at 1:53 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
I know you’re talking but all I hear is blah, blah, blah…
Taru Dutt
May 28, 2012 at 7:25 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Love you Maryam! Never, never be silent. We are with you all the way. You’re like this beacon glowing on steadily despite some pretty despicable efforts made by some people to dim or extinguish its gleam. Keep on keeping on, sister!
Kashif
May 29, 2012 at 5:28 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
If its Bla Bla, I request you to ask Alishba to discuss the Quran with me. She can use all abuses and curses, but mix it with some reason. You could be the judge. Let me know.
Activist
May 28, 2012 at 9:24 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Acha to what happened to tolerance and free speech? Why was Kashif blocked? And then you made an ad hominem attack on him on twitter which was also a lie. You were sad to see an Ahmadi who doesn’t believe in secularism thus indicating to your followers that he’s not secular. Which is a lie. He is a secular person who campaigns for a secular state. Read his work. Just google his name and read. He’s published all over the place. At least do some research on someone before jumping to conclusions. It’s a fallacy and it shows weak thinking skills.
So yeah keep crying about ad hominems and lies while doing the same. No one is taking you seriously. It’s ok for you to slander Kashif and lie about him but heaven help anyone who says anything to you.
There’s a word to describe you: hypocrite. Yeah go ahead and start crying AD HOMS! AD HOMS!
Kashif
May 29, 2012 at 5:33 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Bad day for atheism, I hope Alishba accepts my offer and saves the day for her fellas, before my next article on HuffPost which is coming soon. Look Out!
sufianahmed
May 29, 2012 at 7:48 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
I was part of that Twitter conversation too with Kashif. All that I saw from his side were ad-homs and fallacies.
Kashif, you didn’t read any of her tweets where she quoted verses from the Quran, instead you just rambled on and that conversation must have gone on for a whole day. By the end, even I lost interest. It was like talking to a brick wall and I have better things to do with my time. I’m sure Alishba has better things to do too with her time. By the end, you were just trolling. No wonder she blocked you.
Kashif
May 31, 2012 at 3:30 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Thats exactly my point. What’s there to fear when I am an “established troll”
Just arrange a public debate and humiliate me. Alishba’s running away, may be you can step up to the challenge. If you ever accept the challenge, hit me here @kashifmd since I dont visit this blog much. Thanks.
Tony
May 28, 2012 at 9:44 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
David Hart:
If we do this with a Bible, will this get the Pope to start endorsing condoms?
Tony
May 28, 2012 at 10:32 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Anna:
Sometimes I fail to properly preview my comments before I submit them, so I’m hoping you just had a brain fart when you submitted something this mind-numbingly stupid.
Here, let’s refresh ourselves on what “fatwa” means…
I’m no Islamic scholar, so I’m no expert on fatwas, but aren’t these “rulings” often nothing more than calling on others to commit murder (nothing in the definition of ‘fatwa’ seems to indicate that it always has to be a declaration of ‘kill this person’)?
If that’s the case, please explain why someone would *want* a fatwa issued in their name? Because I’m having a hard time wishing upon a falling star that some dude with a “degree” in Islamic theology issues me a fatwa. And I really hope he sends me a certificate of “fatwatization”. I can proudly hang it on my mantle so I can tell my grandkids (assuming I’m not murdered by that point) that some morons used to think that everyone has respect their vile religion.
1-what the heck is wrong with seeking asylum in another country to avoid BEING KILLED?
2-How well do you know her?
::DISCLAIMER::
(I was going to put this at the end of the post, but then I realized some idiots out there might think I’m serious. Even if you *do* have the answers to any of the following, I neither *want* nor *need* for you to post them. Furthermore posting any of that info would be a shitty thing to do)
***REQUEST FOR PERSONAL INFO REMOVED BY MARYAM NAMAZIE AT REQUEST OF POSTER ***
You say you know her, and that we’re supposed to trust your word. You act as if seeking asylum from barbaric, bronze age superstitious practices is a bad thing…
I’m worried.
I rather hope you’re not one of those taken in by Islam (or any other religion for that matter).
I hope that you just had a bad day, just woke up, bumped your head, or some other reasonable explanation for the sheer stupidity of your post.
A
May 28, 2012 at 11:47 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Alishba ****PERSONAL INFO HAS BEEN REMOVED BY MARYAM NAMAZIE****
Came to Pakistan last summer and a lot of people met her at the social media summit where she also offended an incredible amount of people. She burnt all her bridges within one summer as well which is why she changed her mind about coming this summer knowing no would put up with her dramas this time around. I am one of the people she offended.
Many of us aren’t shocked or offended or even surprised by this. Some people like playing victim. Kudos to her for getting people to play right into her hands. Well done. But remember the truth always comes out. At the moment I think she is inspired by Hirsi Ali who despite her dishonesty is celebrated.
Oh and good to know militant atheists are allowed to attack us as “stupid” and “idiots” but when we anything similar, we are all “fundies”. All Muslims deserve to be called fundies is just twisted logic.
I am Muslim but not religious or practising. I was not offended by this picture at all. In Alishba’s eyes I deserve to be abused for not being an atheist. I consider that intolerant because if I was indeed some hateful person I would have already charged her under the blasphemy law or called enough contacts to find out where her family lives. I won’t do either. But even then I deserve abuse and to be told I’m the reason why terrorists exist.
Tony
May 28, 2012 at 1:20 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Maryam,
I’m deeply sorry. I thought the addition of a disclaimer would have been sufficient to convey that I didn’t want the information posted. I sincerely was trying to convey my doubt that the poster knew Alishba, not to seriously inquire about her personal information. I hope that if you choose to do so, you will delete this comment.
Alishba,
I’m deeply sorry for my post.
Maryam Namazie
May 28, 2012 at 1:51 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
I deleted the personal information you listed but have left the rest of the post.
Secularly Yours
May 28, 2012 at 4:41 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
I don’t know this troll, nor do I care.
Thanks for the support but you and Maryam and everyone should just leave her lies alone. I don’t know this person and obviously she doesn’t know me. And in any case, I don’t care
My information is public. I couldn’t care less about trolls
Thanks for you support though!! xx
Tony
May 28, 2012 at 11:18 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
::SIGH:::
It’s another episode of “here are my vile religious beliefs and everyone is supposed to follow them or else”, brought to you by the Foundation for the New Islamic World Order*.
Yes, that was childish. Oddly enough, it was no more childish than the crap above it. Scratch that. It took some actual thought to come up with what I wrote. Farah, what you wrote isn’t even up to the critical standards of a 10 year old.
Let’s see, where to start:
1- what’s wrong with wanting attention? In fact, given the message that she’s trying to send, it’s rather obvious that she *does* want attention. She’s drawing attention to the fact that everything about a woman is so much more majestic than the tiny god found in the Koran.
She is right.
So we’ve established that you don’t respect people who love attention (and that you think there’s something wrong with wanting/loving attention). So you don’t respect yourself? If you do, then why are you here? All this attention must be quite upsetting.
2-I don’t know her. I don’t know if she has her 100% feminist card. I don’t know if the joke scenario you speak of is real, but I do know that it doesn’t matter. Even if it were real, no one is obligated to *constantly* speak out about matters of concern. People do have lives, you know?
3-Please explain how the statement on the picture is fallacious. Stating that it is doesn’t make it so. Just so we’re on the same page,
You lead the way. I’ll try to follow your argument.
4-What the heck does the subjective opinion of her beauty have to do with the image? Photoshopped? So what? What does that matter?
*in all fairness, nothing in Farah’s comment actually indicates that hen is a follower of Islam. But the nature of the comment is eerily similar to some I’ve read by theists.
Tony
May 28, 2012 at 11:23 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Provide a link for all of us to follow so that we can verify that you’re not actually making this up. Then, for those of us that are reasonable and not going into it with our minds made up, we can decide for ourselves whether she’s defending misogynists or not. Given the snarky nature of your post, I’m already inclined to *not* believe you.
Have you thought that perhaps she’s merely defending their right to *say* what they want? That’s not a defense of misogyny. It’s called free speech. However, free speech is not without consequences. You can say what you want, but you’re not free from the repercussions. Nor is anyone entitled to not be criticized if their beliefs (such as anything misogynistic) are inane.
Tony
May 28, 2012 at 11:32 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Kashif:
No. We won’t. I don’t think you’re going to find many people who would want to engage in such masturbatory crap.
If you do find someone willing to, and they’re an atheist who has given thought to the subject of silly superstitious beliefs (like Islam), their beginning of the discussion will be:
Prove A god exists (not *your* god, but if you could prove that, it would be dandy; gotta warn you though, anecdotes and an ancient book written by people who didn’t know a damn thing about how the world works will never be proof). Until that is proven, discussing anything else is a masturbatory wankfest.
Kashif
May 29, 2012 at 5:37 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Thats fine. At least you are honest you cannot debate these issues.
Tony
May 28, 2012 at 11:35 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Rafiq@18:
That was beautiful. You totally rock!
Tony
May 28, 2012 at 11:42 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Activist:
1- you’re wrong. Flat. Out. Wrong.
I saw the image and I found it moving. I took the image seriously. Thus the statement “no one is taking you seriously” is wrong.
2- what is the deal with people like you coming here and bringing up discussions from elsewhere, without providing the proper context (such as links) for your comments?. Comments which, I hasten to add, are rather vicious and do not at all address the message of a koran between a woman’s legs.
A
May 28, 2012 at 11:58 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
People are commenting here because Alishba is abusing loads of people on twitter and then blocking them. She’s lashing out at people on Facebook too. She has been doing this for a year. People are attempting to leave comments on her blog but she won’t approve them. She just abuses and blocks. So this is the only place where they know they can comment without her acting like a child. She has no control here. That’s why this link has been circulated. Please question her attitude. If she’s so tolerant and a believer in free speech then she simply should not block and censor.
Robert B.
May 28, 2012 at 12:44 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
1) How do we know you’re not making all this up out of your obvious grudge?
2) Even if it’s true, why do we care? This thread is about appreciating her artwork, not elevating her to sainthood. I don’t care if she’s mean to you on the internet.
Maryam Namazie
May 28, 2012 at 1:41 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
You’re the one who sounds intolerant. It’s called free expression. Stop crying. Don’t engage if you are unable to handle criticism. No one is censoring you so speak your mind or fuck off.
Secularly Yours
May 28, 2012 at 4:34 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Maryam, thank you
Tony
May 28, 2012 at 11:50 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Fallacy:
Do you even know what your nym means? You clearly don’t know what ad hominem means. You also don’t know what a straw man is. I do have to admit some personal ignorance. I have no idea what an “ad homs” is. Please consult a dictionary and then come back when you can use words in sentences properly.
Tony
May 28, 2012 at 1:14 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
A:
That’s nice.
What does that have to do with the theme of her picture?
And what link are you talking about? I haven’t seen a link yet. More to the point, its not relevant to the discussion about recognizing how small and insignificant the koran is compared to a living human being.
Secularly Yours
May 28, 2012 at 4:32 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Thank you, Tony, for your support and common sense
sufianahmed
May 28, 2012 at 6:06 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
This picture has a beautiful meaning. We need “blasphemy” to continue on reminding us that nothing is immune to criticism.
This was Alishba’s way of expressing herself, to highlight the mysogyny and patriarchal nature of the Quran. Like me, she too is offended by the Quran and it’s teachings, but do you know the difference here between her being offended by the Quran and the people who were offended by Salman Rushdie’s Satanic Verses? She didn’t go burn down libraries or schools. She didn’t call on people to form mobs to vindicate her hurt feelings.
Those of us that are offended by religion, we do not reply in kind. Instead, we grab a camera, take a picture to show our feelings, and then have a nice cup of tea
Two thumbs up for her bravery, and all those objecting to it, you are in your right to object. You have that right. What you don’t have, is the right NOT to be offended.
Secularly Yours
May 28, 2012 at 6:10 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
I actually like grabbing a bowl of weetabix & watch TBBT
BUT: Thank you, Sufian!
W.Kay
May 29, 2012 at 12:17 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Sufian, you were offended by Islam?? now never heard this before. Islam, or for that matter any other religion was not pointed towards a certain individual, so how on earth you got offended?? you don’t like it don’t follow it simple as that! you are a grown man, bet you got a bit of eduation too, based on that choose the way of life you want to live!
more than a billion people follow Islam, The Quran being the holiest book of all for followers of Islam, posing nude and covering your unmentionables with the scripture comes under the term “Causing an Offense”
read among the comments of an offer to a debate, why not accept the invitation Alishba?
Alishba seems to have a grudge against both Islam and Pakistan.
One wonders, if Islam was such a barbaric religion towards woman and Pakistan a radical state full of “funddies” how come a woman from the same country, even same province in Pakistan where Alishba hails from, not only gets to graduate from Oxford, be a politician but also gets to be the head of state for two terms?? How many female presidents did USA had since its birth??
The current foreign minister of Pakistan is a female, so is the ambassador to USA and the speaker of the Parliament. Pakistan produces more female graduate than men, from doctors to engineers, from teachers to army officers and fighter pilots and bet you don’t know astronauts too! You haven’t even completed your college!!?? One wonders how Islam and Pakistan oppressed you yet thousands of other women following same religion living in same country (Pakistan) have achieved what not many have achieved in the world let alone the Islamic or western world!!
As far as Islam Goes, I doubt Alishba even knows the “I” of Islam. Its amazes me that people who have no knowledge about something act to be the one with most knowledge.
You hate Pakistan so much then why not get rid of the Passport, why are you still caring it as your Identity abroad??
sufianahmed
May 29, 2012 at 8:17 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Never heard this before? You seem to be someone who has never heard or read the arguments against religion and Islam, or else you wouldn’t be saying this.
Islam offends me because of its anti-human, bigoted, anti-feminist, anti-rights, homophobic and racist ideology. The Quran and the hadiths offend me because they teach some of the most vile doctrines there are. I have met good people, good Muslim people who use absolutely disgusting and elaborate excuses for Muhammad’s behaviour with Aisha. Trying to defend paedophilia is vile. And YOUR HOLY BOOKS says its ok, as long as that 55 year old person was a prophet of god, and if god commanded it. No it’s not ok. I am offended. And rightly so.
In the Quran you have countless verses that are intolerant of non-believers. Story of Lot promotes homophobia. Muhammad himself said that women are deficient in intelligence.
This sort of stuff might not bother you, so go surrender in your own name, but don’t ask me to do it. I will continue on being part of this opposition to theocratic bullying that I face every day. Every day I have to wake up and read something in the papers that the religious mob is trying to push some law in to the public sphere. Yes, damn right I’m offended by that.
And yes, education and gaining knowledge did kill religion for me, and the final nail in the coffin was reading the Quran and the Hadiths. I realised that holy scriptures reward you for being gullible. By insisting that you must have faith. If there was any evidence for a god, the religion wouldn’t rely on faith and it wouldn’t offer such harsh punishments for leaving it.
And I’m not following Islam. I’m an ex-Muslim atheist since 3 years ago. I’m 29 years old now, and I thought it was time I grew up and let go of ridiculous superstitious nonsense.
Offending billion people? So what? Satya Sai baba has 4 million followers, yet he was a fraud, a charlatan, and a child molester. Are we suppose to stay quiet about that too? Are we suppose to let the abuse continue because it might offend 4 million believers of Satya Sai baba? Ridiculous.
And did anyone else notice an underlying threat in that “more than a billion people” statement? “You better watch out.. there’s a lot of us..” That’s what it sounded like to me.
W.Kay
May 29, 2012 at 11:32 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
“”And did anyone else notice an underlying threat in that “more than a billion people” statement? “You better watch out.. there’s a lot of us..” That’s what it sounded like to me.”"
All I am going to say to that is…you being paranoid.
I don’t need to get into all that to out my point across, you are confused, utterly confused.
giving example of sai baba….mate first of all, he did not follow a religion, Islam is a religion! secondly, Allegations, nothing was proven, I bet you know about the joint letter made public in december 2001??
anyway moving on. You said you read The Quran before coming to conclusion that its all nasty, well there is a huge difference between READING and UNDERSTANDING….are you well-versed in arabic? do you know how same words have different meaning if put in a different context?? you are educated so bet you know all that! right?
I don’t Follow Islam because I inherited it..I wasn’t a born Muslim….I Follow it by choice after dedicating 3 years of my life UNDERSTANDING Islam.
now coming to your comments …
“”Islam offends me because of its anti-human, bigoted, anti-feminist, anti-rights, homophobic and racist ideology. The Quran and the hadiths offend me because they teach some of the most vile doctrines there are. I have met good people, good Muslim people who use absolutely disgusting and elaborate excuses for Muhammad’s behaviour with Aisha. Trying to defend paedophilia is vile. And YOUR HOLY BOOKS says its ok, as long as that 55 year old person was a prophet of god, and if god commanded it. No it’s not ok. I am offended. And rightly so.
In the Quran you have countless verses that are intolerant of non-believers. Story of Lot promotes homophobia. Muhammad himself said that women are deficient in intelligence.”"
Please tell me of these verses!!
as for women and Islam, have a read…..
At the time of Muhammad’s birth, women in 7th century Arabia had few if any rights. Even the right of life could be in question, since it was not uncommon for small girls to be buried alive during times of scarcity. In the Qur’an, it is said that on Judgment Day “buried girls” will rise out of their graves and ask for what crime they were killed. Part of Muhammad’s legacy was to end infanticide and establish explicit rights for women.
Islam teaches that men and women are equal before God. It grants women divinely sanctioned inheritance, property, social and marriage rights, including the right to reject the terms of a proposal and to initiate divorce. The American middle-class trend to include a prenuptial agreement in the marriage contract is completely acceptable in Islamic law. In Islam’s early period, women were professionals and property owners, as many are today. Although in some countries today the right of women to initiate divorce is more difficult than intended, this is a function of patriarchal legislation and not an expression of Islamic values. Muhammad himself frequently counseled Muslim men to treat their wives and daughters well. “You have rights over your women,” he is reported to have said, “and your women have rights over you.”
Muhammad was orphaned at an early age. He once remarked that, “Heaven lies at the feet of mothers.” As the father of four daughters in a society that prized sons, he told other fathers that, if their daughters spoke well of them on the Day of Judgment, they would enter paradise.
Beginning from the time of Muhammad’s marriage to his first wife Khadijah, women played an important role in his religious career. According to Muslim sources, Khadijah was the first person Muhammad spoke to about his initial, terrifying experience of revelation. She consoled him and became the first convert to Islam. She remained a confidant and source of support throughout their entire marriage. Though men commonly took more than one wife in 7th Century Arabia, Muhammad remained in a monogamous marriage with Khadijah until her death, when Muhammad was in his fifties.
By then, Muhammad was working to establish a new community. In that context, over the next 10 years, he married several women. In some cases, these marriages occurred in order to cement political ties, according to the custom of the day. In some cases, the marriage provided physical and economic shelter to the widows of Muslims who had died or who had been killed in battle, and to the wife of a fallen foe. Of all his marriages, only one appears to have been controversial, and it was to the divorced wife of his adopted son.
Only one of his wives had not been previously married. Her name was Aisha, the daughter of one of his closest companions. Aisha was betrothed to Muhammad while still a girl, but she remained in her parents’ home for several years until she reached puberty. Years later, when absent from Medina, Muhammad often recommended that, if religious questions arose, people should take them to his wife Aisha. After Muhammad’s death, Aisha became a main source of information about Muhammad, and on medicine and poetry as well.
Aisha’s assertion that Muhammad lived the Qur’an became the basis for Muslims ever since to emulate his example.
Muhammad’s daughters also played an important and influential role, both in his life and in the establishment of Islam. Most notable was his daughter Fatima, who is still revered by all Muslims, particularly Shiite Muslims.
Following the Battle of Uhud (625), in which scores of male combatants died leaving unprotected widows and children, Muhammad and the Qur’an decreed that, in order to protect the orphans of such families, men might take up to four wives. The permission itself is surrounded with language that discourages the very thing it permits, saying that unless a man can treat several wives equally, he should never enter into multiple marriages. The usual supposition in the modern monogamous West-that Islam institutionally encourages lustful arrangements-is rejected by Muslims themselves as an ill-informed stereotype. At the same time, Muslim feminists point out that in various cultures at different economic strata the laws of polygamy have frequently operated to the clear detriment of women. Polygamy is an uncommon occurrence in the modern Muslim world.
Today, Islamic legal and social systems around the world approach and fall short of women’s rights by varying degrees. Muslims themselves generally view Islam as progressive in these matters. Many Muslim feminists hold the view that the problems presently hindering Muslim women are those that hinder women of all backgrounds worldwide- oppressive cultural practices, poverty, illiteracy, political repression and patriarchy. There is a strong, healthy critique of gender oppression among Muslim feminist authors and activists worldwide.
It would be anachronistic to claim that Muhammad was a feminist in our modern sense. Yet the same present-day barriers to women’s equality prevailed in 7th century Arabia, and he opposed them. Because in his own lifetime Muhammad improved women’s position in society, many modern Muslims continue to value his example, which they cite when pressing for women’s rights.
Bernard Hurley
May 30, 2012 at 12:25 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
What makes you say Satya Sia Baba was not following a religion? He invented his own religion just like an ignorant psychopath called Mohammed did some fourteen centuries ago. Just because you believe one version of inane gobbledygook doesn’t mean you get to sanctify it by claiming labeling it religion while dismissing the rubbish other people believe as not a religion.
sufianahmed
May 30, 2012 at 1:01 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Let me guess? You’re going to tell me that only you have the correct interpretation of the Quran, and only you have truly understood it? If only I got a penny every time I heard this.
“No, you’re reading the wrong verses”
“No, you’re interpreting it wrong”
“No, you’re reading the wrong translations”
“No, you have to read it in context”.
That is a very weak argument. If you’re saying that Quran is best understood in its original texts, then it’s not universal and it’s not for everyone, and it completely contradicts the claim that the Quran is for all of humanity and valid at all times.
Every translation you read, they might slightly differ, but none of them differ to the point where the whole meaning of the verse changes.
Homosexual acts are condemned in 27:54-55, 7:80-81, 26:165-6, 27:54-55, 29:28-29. “What! Do you indeed approach men lustfully rather than women? Nay, you are a people who act ignorantly” (27:55) I guess you just skipped over these parts when reading the Quran. Or maybe you didn’t “understand” them?
4:34 shows how men are better than women. You can beat the women if she is disobedient. And it is said women are “unclean”. There are many other verses, I’m not going to start listing them here, else I’ll be at it all day.
Aisha was 9 years old when Muhammad consummated the marriage with her. Says so in Bukhari, which is on equal canon with the Quran in Islam. Again, you trying to defend it by saying she had hit puberty, is one of the vile things Muslims will say to justify this. Doesn’t matter if she hit puberty at 9, she was 9! If you say that that was a common practice in the middle east at the time, Muhammad was suppose to be a prophet, a perfect example for mankind, yet he didn’t nothing against child marriages. Taking a child bridge for himself only set an example and gave the green-light to others to say it was ok to do it. The reason there are still child marriages happening in Saudi Arabia and other Muslim countries is because it’s permitted in Islam. Cultures can change, if the reason that culture can’t change is because religion is holding it back.
Yes, child marriages happen in other non-Muslim countries also, and religion plays a part in that too like in India.
Sure Islam gave women some rights in the 7th Century. But it didn’t gave them ALL rights, or even equal rights. We are in the 20th century now, yet the women in Muslim countries still live under 7th century law. Feminists are fighting hard to give women equal rights but the biggest hurdle for them is religious doctrine.
And just for your information, no you can’t treat your 4 wives equally. It’s impossible. You’ll always get one wife who is favoured more.
Sarah
May 28, 2012 at 11:41 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Alishba,
Just a few words for you to ponder and reflect upon.
“Oh you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should you treat them with harshness…live with them on a footing of Kindness and Equity…”
(The Holy Qur’an Protecting Women’s rights.)
“In their hearts is a disease, and God increaseth their disease.” – The Holy Qur’an (This statement by Allah is for someone like you)
As the saying goes : “One day Your whole life will flash before Your eyes, make sure it is worth watching.”
That’s all I wanted to say.
W.Kay
May 29, 2012 at 12:48 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
I would have understood her frustration had she been from a country like Iran or Saudi Arabia, where women do suffer a lot at the hands of men, little to do with Islam and more to do with their culture. But for someone from a rather liberal, tolerant and moderate country like Pakistan which has a rich history of women playing important role in different walks of life, it just amazed me more than anything else.
Tony
May 29, 2012 at 4:28 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Sarah:
Hi there.
Just a few words for you to ponder and reflect upon:
That was fun. Go ponder. Take your time.
Done?
These are a few examples of how your god treats women.
2 women are equal to one man?
Women are supposed to be obedient to the husbands? Sounds like women are closer to man’s best friend than human beings deserving of respect.
You can’t pray if you’ve had contact with a woman because you’re unclean**? Seriously?***
Cherry picking is fun. Both sides can do it. However, your side has the burden of trying (and failing miserably) to justify how a loving god could be an obnoxious misogynist.
**by ‘in contact’ does that mean ‘to have sex with’, ‘shook the hand of’ or does it mean ‘bumped into’?
***Oh, and where can one find “clean sand or earth”?
Tony
May 29, 2012 at 5:21 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
W.Kay:
liberal? tolerant? moderate?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Pakistan
..
I’m well aware that these examples-taken on their own-cannot be used to judge the overall picture of how women are treated in Pakistan. However, they do call into question your notion that Pakistan is liberal, tolerant and moderate.
W.Kay
May 29, 2012 at 10:43 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Tony, You are amazing, presenting your facts taken off wikipedia? do you know how easy it is to write up stuff on wiki?
wish you had done some research, on the ground research! anyway, I wrote alot of other stuff too, wonder why you never bothered to comment on that???
my simple question was, when millions of women, following Islam, and living in Pakistan can achieve their aims, goals and fulfil their dreams then it means there is nothing wrong with the Religion, or the state for that matter.
I don’t know if you ever visited Pakistan, I would love you to visit Pakistan and see for your self. Go to schools, Colleges and universities and see for yourself!
gathering information available on the web is easy, but gathering facts is a different story.
Im not denying that there are no problems in Pakistan, there are, some serious issues need sorting out, but to say that you, as a woman, cannot grow as an individual is an absolute rubish. thoes who want to, they do. to blame a country, or a religion for your own shortcomings is utter nonsense.
I’ll give you an example, in some Muslim countries in Africa,among some tribes women are circumcised, now People like Alishba and you and many others will jump up and down and say look Islam Barbaric!! but If you do a bit of research, you’ll realise that its part of their culture, it was there decades before Islam came to Africa. Unfortunately they did not follow Islam as they should have and they misunderstood it same as many people still misunderstand it and start blaming Islam for all the evils around!!
I’d appreciate if you do a bit of research. honour killings are not restricted to Pakistan or Islamic countries, number of REPORTED honour killings go into thousands in India, a secular, democratic, non Islamic Country!! one wonders why as neither Islam nor Pakistan has any influence over India
let me share another FACT, the number of REPORTED rape cases in the states, yet another Secular, Democratic and NON MUSLIM country, regularly reach upto 100,000 mark a year! can you explain that??
culture plays a huge part, its a fact!!
Pakistan is a relatively new country compared to most of western countries, so yes it has a long way to go before it can sort out all its problems, but that in no way should be used to discredit it for the progress it has made in almost every field.
with education and better understanding of Islam, Pakistan will move forward, cuz most of these cases that are used as examples involve people who are neither educated nor know the meaning of Islam.
Secularly Yours
May 30, 2012 at 1:28 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
From Amnesty Intl.
http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/info/ASA33/006/2002
PAKISTAN: INSUFFICIENT PROTECTION OF WOMEN
This report summarizes Pakistan’s official commitments to uphold women’s rights made since October 1999 and describes instances of abuse of women’s rights in the family, in the community and in custody. It then describes the difficulties which women face in the criminal justice system when they seek redress. The report ends on a set of recommendations to the Government of Pakistan. The appendix lists a number of international resolutions against honour’ crimes
http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/pakistan/report-2012
2012 Report abt Pakistan:
Violence against women and girls
Women faced legal and de facto discrimination and violence at home and in public. The Aurat Foundation documented 8,539 cases of violence against women, including 1,575 murders, 827 rapes, 610 incidents of domestic violence, 705 honour killings and 44 acid attacks. In December, Pakistan’s parliament sought to address this problem by passing the Acid Control and Acid Crime Prevention Bill 2010 and the Prevention of Anti-Women Practices (Criminal Law Amendment) Bill 2008, aimed at empowering and protecting women and increasing penalties for perpetrators of gender-based violence. This was the first time that acid attacks and practices like forced marriages were criminalized in Pakistan.
On 10 September, four women – all teachers – were attacked with acid by two masked perpetrators riding a motorbike, as they left a co-educational school in Quetta, capital of Balochistan province. One of the women escaped without any injuries and another two were discharged from hospital with minor burns, but the fourth sustained severe burns and required major reconstructive surgery. Federal and provincial authorities took notice of the attack, but the perpetrators had yet to be brought to justice.
On 15 October, a teenage girl accused 13 people, including three police officers, of abducting and gang raping her in captivity for a year in the district of Karak in Khyber Pakthunkhwa province. On 9 December, her brother was shot dead as he left the district court hearing the criminal case against the accused.
From the UN:
http://www.unwomen.org/2012/03/pro-women-laws-take-hold-in-pakistan/
Pro-women laws take hold in Pakistan
Posted on March 26 2012 | News
Women in Pakistan have faced formidable challenges in their efforts to achieve gender equality and address gender-based violence in their country, with particular problems posed by elements among customary norms and practices.
UN Women report
http://www.unifem.org/attachments/gender_issues/violence_against_women/facts_figures_violence_against_women_2007.pdf
According to a 2002 report by the UN Special Rapporteur on Violence against Women, “honour killings” take place in Pakistan, Turkey, Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, Iran, Yemen, Morocco and other Mediterranean and Gulf countries. It also occurs in countries such as Germany, France and the United Kingdom within immigrant communities. It is not only in Islamic countries or communities that this act of violence is prevalent. Brazil is cited as a case in point, where killing is justified to defend the honour of the
husband in the case of a wife’s adultery [29].
According to a government report, 4,000 women and men were killed in Pakistan in the name of honour between 1998 and 2003, the number of women being more than double the number of men [30]. In a study of female deaths in Alexandria, Egypt, 47 percent of the women were killed by a relative after the woman had been raped [31]. In Jordan and Lebanon, 70 to 75 percent of the perpetrators of these socalled “honour killings” are the women’s brothers [32].
Secularly Yours
May 30, 2012 at 1:29 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
No good was ever achieved out of denial. Face the bullshit in your country & change it.
ALSO: Tony has already showed how messed up religion, in this case Islam, is.
Secularly Yours
May 30, 2012 at 1:33 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Most of the EU is godless. Hence, they have successful secular societies. Read & think a bit.
India is as new as Pakistan but its way ahead than Pakistan will ever be in my lifetime.
I am a woman from Pakistan. I know the realities. I don’t deny them. I love the food, the skies, the seas of that country, but I don’t want anything to do with such a country that doesn’t allow half of its population (women) to be free human beings.
SAT
April 13, 2013 at 12:28 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
All she needs is an asylum to settle in the west. She is following the Hirsi model. She can go fuck herself i wont give a flying fuck. What upsets me is that bitches like her, defame the whole Muslim, secular Muslim n even Atheist but with respect for Muslim culture (and a desire to change there repressive acts) communities by usiing cheap publicity tactics. This shit bun with a big face, is what i hate about this world. Act as if she cares about the women in our country. She doesnt give a fuck about them. This women with a face the size of a basket ball uses these women (who definitely are subjugated to bad treatment) as a scape goat to get attention and make a case for getting an asylum in a western country. Just go fuck and live over there. Why act as if you care ? Why act as if you want something positive to happen in this world and the people you come from. All you fucking want is to mock their values, use their poor condition as the reason to lead a life on a hand out. The guy sufian above is her ball less husband. looks like a lizard. You can listen to his bullshit in her support. I wont be surprised if in his enlightened views the next right thing to do is to put this ugly saggy boobed, big faced woman in a California brothel to get some easy money.
Truly the scum of earth. Ugly and shitty. PLEASE GUYS GIVE THEM AN ASYLUM. Thats all what this fuss is for. No wonder you’ll be regretting this scum in a few years when they live on your hand out.
And miss moderator, since you are not offended by anything, kindly let this pass too.
Hina
May 30, 2012 at 6:38 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
W.Kay that’s precisely why no one in Pakistan is taking her seriously. It has a huge liberal population and feminists run schools, publications etc. So yes, even with the problems, there is a space for liberal (which includes atheist) women. There are many openly working and living in Pakistan (with fear for sure but not like Saudi or ).
And because this seems like a drama to all the sensible people on ground in Pakistan, they can’t even be bothered to comment. If Alishba wanted to make a difference in the world, she’d go back to Pakistan and do some real work. Not this drama.
Don’t know if this is about getting fame and a Western citizenship and don’t care either. Would not surprised if it was based on her attitude and what I’ve heard about her.
btw has anyone seen this really great comment by some Karachi Khatmal on Alishba’s blog? http://secularlyyours.wordpress.com/2012/05/23/religion-and-feminism/#comments I find her response really, really idiotic.
Lastly, I know I’m not the only one who find Alishba’s hypocrisy irksome. Firstly she doesn’t allow most comments on her blog through but goes around yelling “freedom of speech! No censorship!” so I fail to see how this is compatible. If you believe in it, then let it apply to your own blog. And no don’t tell me you don’t let only dangerous comments through. People have left harmless comments as a test to see if she’ll approve but she doesn’t.
Tony
May 30, 2012 at 10:04 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
W.Kay:
So that means the information I put up was inaccurate (attempting to deflect the point I was making is dishonest btw)? Interesting. Can you cite any source that shows Wikipedia (and by extension, I) am wrong?
By the way, many atheists feel it’s amazing that believers of Islam, Christianity and Judaism present facts from their holy texts. I mean do you know how easy its been for people to manipulate those holy books over the last few thousand years?
The information I got from Wikipedia can be independently verified or refuted.
The same cannot be said of any holy text. Yet so many people treat said texts as infallible. Which of course, they’re not. Prove your god exists first.
In the interest of verifying the information I supplied:
More from the same site:
You must live in a bubble if you aren’t aware of the atrocities committed against women in Pakistan. You should get out more. Read more information that isn’t censored by any media or government entity. Don’t indulge in confirmation bias.
On the ground research?
I have to go to Pakistan to find out the abominable conditions women face on a daily basis?
You will of course not see the irony in asking me to do the very thing you yourself have not done.
As for the ‘other stuff’ you wrote, I don’t see anything of significance that warranted a reply. Moreover, there is no rule that one has to address every point made by a commenter. Again with the deflection.
You said (and I quote):
That was your entire comment @34. I responded to it @36. Your entire comment was nothing more than an attempt to diminish the atrocities women in Pakistan face. I addressed your post in all the relevant ways.
You have yet to present any evidence to show that Pakistan is liberal, tolerant and moderate. You’ve simply made an assertion. I’m sure there are aspects of Pakistan society that are liberal, tolerant and moderate. I don’t believe for one second that every aspect of life in Pakistan is 100% horrible. I do believe that women in Pakistan are in an ongoing struggle to be treated as human beings every bit the equal of men. I do believe one of the major reasons for that is the vile religion of Islam.
Oh, I did want to address something else, now that I think about it. Iran and Saudi Arabia do have major problems. This isn’t the thread for that discussion. Your attempt at deflection (again) is noted.
But while we’re discussing issues of culture:
When does culture become an entity wholly separate from the influence of religion?
Are you honestly saying that violence against women has little to do with Islam?
Where does the culture come from?
What influences cultural attitudes?
Why would people think its ok to rape a woman?
What cultural attitude spawns the notion that attacking a woman with acid is a-ok?
It is my hope that if you choose to respond to this, you will do so honestly without attempting to deflect the argument at hand. I also hope that you do some research and learn to back up your assertions with actual facts. Failure to do so shows you to be intellectually dishonest, and not someone I have any further desire to speak with.
Tony
May 30, 2012 at 10:24 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Hina:
That’s interesting. I find the opposite. I found Karachi Khatmal’s comment to be the idiotic one.
Idiotic.
Moronic.
Deeply stupid.
Without blinders on, one can easily see the message her picture is conveying: The beauty of a woman is far more grand than the Quran and the tiny god found within.
Did you re-read your comment before you posted it? You admit that liberal and atheist women (none of whom you name, so I’m not certain this statement is truthful) fearfully work and live in Pakistan. You attempt to diminish the realities of the atrocities of course. But just like W. Kay, you don’t support any of your assertions with facts. You just say them and I imagine you expect people to believe you. Uh uh. It doesn’t work that way.
It doesn’t surprise me that you can’t see a difference between supporting free speech in public life vs not allowing an individual to post on one’s personal blog. You must not follow many blogs. Many bloggers have rules about posting comments. Violate those rules and one can often be banned or moderated. That’s not a violation of free speech.
Additionally, how do you know that she doesn’t allow most comments on her blog? You would have to have access to information about her blog that you probably aren’t supposed to have.
Iranian Atheist
May 31, 2012 at 9:38 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Go Maryam, Go!
executioner009
July 18, 2012 at 9:31 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Hey, actually yes.., no one above understood this religion right, as long as you still keeping a strongly offensive heart to Islam, you would never ever understand a bit, such as the user that says, to people who trust WIKIPEDIA, it’s just a source of writing hoaxes, believe it or not i own 19 websites right now, i use some of them to create some wrong articles and it really worked, since 2008, and no one could even catch my wrong 12 wrong articles. I’m a Muslim since about a month, so you people stop commenting stupidly on Islam!, if you don’t like Islam, then shut it up and live your life as you want, but don’t write SUCH A STUPID AND SELF-DEVELOPED CASES THAT WERE NOT MENTIONED IN QUR’AN. for example you:
35. Tony, show me at least one true source that shows us that you’re right. Anyway, you all live your life as you like and let us live it as we want and go check out your religion before you write anything about someone’s.
Secularly Yours:
Remember that women are NOT only Secularly Yours, who do you think Mister Mohammed Nafees is?, we all have got minds (and thaks 4 Allah), so use your mind to reach to the higher truth, honor killing?, this was used by ONLY the IGNORANT people of Islam, who know a little about their religion, a woman must be stoned ONLY in case that she was married, so if she was married to a man, what do you think that she has to do with the prostitution?, A MAN MUST BE STONED TO DEATH TOO !!!, IN THE SAME CASE!, but in case people were NOT married the must be WHIPPED ON THEIR BACK, NO MORE. BOTH OF THESE PUNISHMENTS CAN ONLY TAKE PLACE BY HAVING 4 MEN (FOR WITNESS), after they swear in the Holy Qur’an, if there were 3 witnesses or less, it cannot take place. So if you search the entire history of Islam, you would NOT find any man or woman stoned more. even if, they don’t exceed 5 or 6, so now you should BLAME PEOPLE WHO DO THIS IN WRONG STATEMENTS, AND STOP BLAMING ISLAM.
Bernard Hurley
July 18, 2012 at 10:56 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
By your own admission you are a compulsive liar, which makes you an ideal spokesman (I assume you are a man) for militant Islam.
It’s of little comfort to know that, according to your interpretation of the word of your Holy Pervert (Pigshit be Upon Him), only married women should be stoned. Nor would it be of much comfort to unmarried women who are being stoned to know that according to you, they should ‘only’ be whipped – remember this too is inhuman and can lead to death. Nor is it any sort of defense of the brutal act of stoning to say that many men should be stoned too.
As for that inane pile of pornographic trash you call the Holy Qur’an, and whether the requisite number of ‘witnesses’ have or have not sworn upon it, that is irrelevant. Islamists are as Islamists do; whenever apologists for militant Islamism start wetting their nappies and blubbering about being misunderstood and how what these people are doing is not “really” Islamic, I wonder whether they are ignorant, insane or dishonest. In your case, by admitting to being a compulsive liar, you have answered that question.
executioner009
July 18, 2012 at 12:42 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Well as long as you decided to speak out to me, could you forget your offensive words that you used to insult, and tell me what do you know about this case?, read out and about before you write a stupid reply as your first:
#1: Stoning cannot take place in cases that we see everyday, except by some ignorant Muslims who don’t know their religion well.
#2: A man or a woman must be married, so you can access to #3.
#3: Four wise Muslims (must be men), should agree that they had seen the man or the woman at the prostitution time. NOTE: It’s semi-impossible to find 4 men who watched that, so nothing will take place.
#4: If he/she wasn’t married, a witness of 4 wise Muslim men should swear that they have seen him/her. If agreed, so he/she would be whipped on his/her back 80 times. NOTE: Eighty times, cannot kill a moron!. Even if it really does, he/she hasn’t had done this.
#5: %99 of the daily cases that we hear of, are based on the own desire of those people, they just kill him/her in the same moment they hear a lie.
#6: Anyone who kills a man or a woman WITHOUT applying these rules will be GUILTY, Islam says that “anyone who kills an innocent, it’s just like he/she has killed the entire humanity”.
- All what i wrote is mentioned in the Holy Qur’an or El Hadeeth.
- And as mentioned above, %99 of women who had been killed are innocent, so they had been killed all because of some IGNORANT people, not because of Islam.
- For your Information, Islam legalized stoning all just for making people away from prostitution. If not…, It wouldn’t has put these rules that are very very rare to happen.
============================================
FORCE MARRIAGE:
Islam has NOTHING to do with the FORCED MARRIAGE, the parents of a boy or a girl, can only ADVISE him/her but they MUST NOT FORCE him/her to do anything, but some ignorant Muslims still forcing their daughters to marry whom they want.
- Finally, this.., i mean your first reply will NOT make a professional philosopher from you.., so talk in your knowledge, not in your bad words. ANYWAY BLAME PEOPLE, BUT NEVER BLAME A RELIGION.
Bernard Hurley
July 18, 2012 at 1:59 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Oh, I see, real Islam would only have killed 1% of the women we see killed by Islamists round the globe!
Speaking of philosophy, by saying that 99% of women who have been killed by stoning are innocent, you have conceded the the most important philosophical point, namely that you so-called Holy Books sanction the death penalty for trivial sexual peccadilloes; more than that, they sanction death by a particularly barbarous method. This should be utterly repulsive to every sane, civilised human being. That you can accept even this much barbarity in itself is evidence that you are either insane or uncivilised. That you accept it on the authority of texts written over 1000 years ago by ignorant desert nomads is further evidence. If these texts really were dictated by angels or otherwise inspired by Allah then this would be clear evidence that this Allah was insane or uncivilised. This being the case I would like to ask you why you are such a sniveling coward as to submit yourself to the will of this monster instead instead of having the basic human dignity to oppose him.
But, evil and barbaric though it is, we are only speaking of your interpretations of your so-called Holy Texts. Others interpretations are far more barbaric, as you well know; if this were not the case we would see a sea of fatwas against the 99% of ‘un-Islamic’ stoning from the Imams, Ayatollahs, and Grand Muftis of the world. Where are they? Instead we see such people presiding over sharia courts which order such acts to be committed. Who are you to claim that your interpretation of the Holy Texts is correct and theirs is not? It is really irrelevant for you to try to convince me of this; I find your interpretation already bad enough and already enough to blame the Islamic religion, yes the religion for what is going on. However if you really believe your interpretation to be correct than I challenge you to go round to parts of the world where these 99% of ‘un-Islamic’ stonings are taking place and to try to convince the local clergy that they truly are un-Islamic.
Lastly I will criticise both people and religions. Most people who identify with a religion are not nearly as barbaric as the religion itself. This goes for all religions. I come from a Roman Catholic family. This does not stop me from from criticising the barbarity of the Catholic Church nor from recognising that my relatives who still identify with that religion are really nice people. Fortunately the Catholic Church no longer has the political power that it had 400 years ago and no longer goes around burning people. Islam does have political power in many countries. It is therefore doubly important to criticise it for its abuses. Most of its victims are Muslims themselves; mostly decent ordinary people. Most of these will be religious, as is the case with Roman Catholics in Ireland, out of a mixture of fear, ignorance and early indoctrination. Most do not have the time or other resources to figure out the real implications of their religion, and, given the choice, most will not go along with the most extreme religious bigots.
You claim, however, to have worked out what you Holy Books really mean; you claim to know the real implications of your religion, and conclude that they are not nearly as bad as others, including your co-religionists, have made out. Can’t you see that even your version of Islam is bad enough? In such circumstances it would be generous of me to call you either insane or stupid. If you are neither the shame on you!
executioner009
July 18, 2012 at 6:51 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
#1: Don’t say “they” because the true Muslims didn’t develop anything from their own, they follow the religion as mentioned.
#2: You know that i would oppose anyone wrong, but i agree about anything mentioned in the Holy Qur’an and El Hadeeth.
#3: Theirs (that only if it was just like you protesting) is totally wrong, they have never say kill them without a witness, anyway i don’t care for those people you called (Ayatullahs, Imams…) but i only know that i must apply the rules of the Holy Qur’an and El Hadeeth as mentioned, no more, nothing less.
#4: You said that you have enough, to blame Islam.., so tell me what do you have?.
#5: This, might be misunderstood.., i meant that the Muslims that killed people without a witness, are Muslims (generally) but NOT applying the rules as mentioned.
#6: NOTE: note that a number of Muslims themselves, don’t apply the rules as mentioned, and that’s WHAT MADE MOST WESTERNS (INCLUDING ME A MONTH AGO) STRONGLY HATE ISLAM AND MUSLIMS.
#7: I was a Christian, but i didn’t like my religion.., that humans edited and removed what they didn’t like from it. So i decided to follow Islam, I’m not a Christian anymore to apply what i like and throw what i don’t like, my religion has come down from Allah, and i cannot edit and develop a beta-version.
#8: No, i’m NOT seeing anything bad in my religion, so could you help me?, tell me what is bad in it?.
#9: I would leave Islam as soon as you mention and prove a bad thing in Islam.., then you can put a shame on me, if NOT.., it would be reflected.
ali khan
August 10, 2012 at 10:36 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
ISLAM = IT IS + SLUM
SO KORAN IS HOLY BOOK OF REAP, LOOT, MURDER AND TERRORISM OR TERRORISTS MANUAL.
MUSLIM SHOULD NOT READ KORAN RATHER GO FOR A MOVIE. STRESS STRESS FREE. BECOME VEGETARIAN. BECOME PEACEFUL.
tullymoore k.
September 4, 2012 at 11:54 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
i have mixed heritage of pakistani and english. and throughout my life iv had the special advantage of viewing life on either side of the fence; my grandmother would take us to christmas mass, and we would also have eid celebrations etc.
iv also seen (as most others have) the exponential decline of reason in the world following the events on 11th of september 2001.
depending on my thought pattern of the day, i am either an atheist or a deist, while mostly, i feel that agnosticism to be the more rational approach.
if one takes a detached and objective view of the abrahamic faiths, from judaism to islam, one does indeed come the across the validation of murder, genocide, slavery, genital mutilation, infanticide etc.
in a debate on the abrahmaic faiths, it is possible to present a logical and reasoned refutation, using the contradictions present in the books themselves and by using present sciences like archaeology, anthropology, carbon dating, etc. but that requires some level of genuine knowledge.
personally, i think ms zarmeens efforts are those of a dilettante. her activity only strengthens the claim of the religious that atheists are nothing more than arrogant, vulgar, and nihilistic exhibitionists.
her twitter and facebook page (which are open to public viewing) are dressed with popular images of figures like karl marx and the most recent science superstar neil degrasse tyson, which to me, seems no different than a yuppie wearing a che guevara t-shirt at starbucks.
without question religion needs to be opposed. particularly the abrahamic religions. i believe that the diamond mine that is the internet, for obvious reasons will accelerate the opposition.
but, our opposition needs to be a real one, studied and sophisticated. exhibit the proof of correlations and similarities between ancient religions and mythologies and how they influenced the cognitive development of societies,and then entire nations, and the nature of economies.
i think ms zarmeen miscalculated in taking the picture; in consideration of the people she has left behind in pakistan. its a place where you risk life and limb on claiming your atheism. with the fanaticism present there, she has subjected her family (if they still live there) to very real danger.
the image -and others like it- is counter-productive. with the current state of the world we (atheist and agnostics) should
know better than simply fanning the flames.
personally, i think the only thing ms zarmeen ought to be accused of, is trite sensationalism.
Landen
September 5, 2012 at 9:42 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Awwwwww mommy never loved her! Daddy wasn’t there to change her underwear!
amin
November 23, 2012 at 1:28 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Randi ke bache apni maa ki choot me ghus ja aur aise images na bana ,
saman
November 30, 2012 at 11:05 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
dear maryam, i am an iranian man and an atheist ,i am so proud of you ,you are such a considerate ,knowledgable caring humanbeing ,if we had more sophisticated individuals like you ,iran would be a much more peaceful place to live in ,i support you with each and every fiber of my soul
Conrad
December 1, 2012 at 3:06 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Now i know why men are considered stupid and women are considered tactful and intelligent. What do men do when they want to protest against patriarchy, irrationality, intolerance and bigotry? They (well most of them) meet the perpetrators face to face and confront them and then get beaten up or killed!! No one ever knows of their courage (stupidity). What do most women do to protest against all the above mentioned? Yes, they burn bra and shed their clothes! No risk to life and they get millions of supporters also! So to all those men and women who plan to confront their enemies face to face and get killed, please stop being stupid and start posting your nude pictures from a remote corner in the world. I will respect you for using your brain rather than heart.
And, to all the atheists and religious people who are wasting their valuable time and energy in this post by trying to prove each other wrong – just appreciate the nudity. Don’t go thinking about the logic behind it. For people like me, nude pictures do not evoke thinking. It has only one purpose- it helps poor lonely souls like me have a nice happy time
Don’t blame me. Nature created me this way. Even if you blame me i don’t give a f*** about it.
Thank you lady in the picture. A heartfelt thanks from a fan of nudity and pornography.
bernardhurley
December 1, 2012 at 10:19 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
There is a difference between nudity and pornography. We are one of the few species who wear clothes. It has advantages in that we can live in environments we otherwise would have to shun and we can do things we otherwise could not do – would you like to fry chips in the nude? However religions have latched on to this and made out there is something shameful about the human body. Why should we feel this? Once you have internalized the idea that there is something shameful about nudity and it becomes a taboo, you can get a thrill from breaking this taboo. This is what the pornographer exploits, but if there was no taboo in the first place there would be no pornography and, to my mind, we would have a much healthier society.
conrad
December 1, 2012 at 5:59 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Hey, thank you for your response. I have a low IQ and i am more like a Neanderthal than Homo Sapien. So i did not understand a single word you wrote. The only thing which happens when i see a nude picture is, blood flows to my reproductive organ. As i mentioned before it does not evoke any logical thinking. So please don’t bother forcing your idea about nudity on me. I am not going to think that my ideas and thoughts are wrong (just like all posters in this blog think including you). Go ahead and blame me. I don’t give a f*** about it (Just like all the posters in this blog
). This will be my last reply to you sir as my low IQ will not let me comprehend anything you tell me.
Pappo Uncanny
December 25, 2012 at 2:22 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
I hate this kind of picture ,is it good you people are using women as sexual goods ,never.on The other hand The Quran gives women enough respect as Well as protect their rights.ok go on as much as u like ,every body will die,that is true.
taha
January 16, 2013 at 4:44 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
I’m your mother your sister …… son of a prostitute …..
Muslim
March 15, 2013 at 8:57 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
all you fuckers are lucky for now, keep on spitting what ever you like, sooner either shariah will see you else death will teach you.
Maryam Namazie
March 15, 2013 at 10:28 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
It’s the other way around. Islamism is on its way out. What will you do then?
cchoton
March 26, 2013 at 12:59 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Bravo! This is a great photograph of our beloved “Faithless Daughter” of Facebook. Thank you Maryam Namazie for sharing this.
NoCanDo
April 9, 2013 at 6:56 am (UTC 1) Link to this comment
Well all i will say is that while this whole struggle to gain equal rights to women is underway, just remember when tomorrow your own daughter posts a picture of herself similar to this (maybe completely exposed, cmon its 2013 atm!) then it may hit you in the face that all these years getting praised for a picture where YOU offend the beliefs of billions was not really worth it.
sure you have your reasons to not approve of what islam stands for, but to spit in the face of the billions that follow it is no way to get any props for what you do. you made a choice to leave islam, and to fight for women who are struggling to get equality rights themselves AND fighting for athiests who need a voice as well. by just pissing away on someones beliefs, youre in one way contradicting your actions. if you truly stand for self-righteousness, then do so by NOT clowning what people follow. I dont support gay marriage or homosexuality, but that does not mean im gona gather a bunch of anti-homosexuals and start a riot or an online war with the rest of the world. Youre very right-winged and arrogant. Judging by your comments, youre an avid scholar in philosophy, but you fail to consider anyone elses point of view. youre too one dimensional in your own mindset that your philosophical mindset is ashtray itself. “im right and youre wrong – the end” -Alishba Zarmeen (fictional quote, before you break down the philosophy behind that)
its disgusting in many ways. but oh well, you probably heard all these comments before as well as everything i said.
aside from whats right or not, lets drift away from all this.
Your tits are saggy as hell, if you truly wanted any droolers, i suggest you get implants done because i straight up almost puked -true story. my ex girlfriends an asian, she didnt have much but she looked good without a shirt. Girl after her is white, did yoga and gymnastics which kept her tits from sagging down. one after her is uzbek, does her share of going to the gym, went from saggy tits like you to awesome grabbing material.
before you jump me with how females shouldnt be looked as sex items. females themselves give men the opportunity to see them that way. we all have fucking hormones, when a girl is dressed up revealing every bit of skin BUT covering her privates, that sparks the temptation. if you studied psychology then im sure you would understand that as well. but you expect everyone to have a switch and function like robots.
Alisba zarmeen as well as her followers, learn to live in the real world. thats all im saying
p-s start going to the gym, youre in need of immediate care
Deborah Jamil
April 9, 2013 at 9:17 pm (UTC 1) Link to this comment
I do not see how ANYONE could possibly insult the Prophet, Qur’an, and Islam more than those claiming to follow and defend the religion, even if the people attempting to insult it were joined by hoards of other people and worked at it 24/7 for the rest of their lives. After all their efforts, they would not even come close.