Just finished this Google+ hangout with Alex Gabriel, Ophelia Benson, Stephanie Zvan and Debbie Goddard about Atheism Plus, labels, goals, divisiveness, et cetera. Enjoy!
Update: Transcription is now available, thanks to the good folks at A+Scribe. I also talk a bit more about the “drumming out” meme here.
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trinioler
August 25, 2012 at 8:23 pm CDT (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Hey all. A+scribe is making an effort to transcribe this video. With the permission of the participants, can we post the transcription when its done?
For those who don’t know, A+scribe is a volunteer organization working to provide transcriptions for videos and podcasts, for greater accessibility. Right now, we’re focusing on the A+ sphere, for a more manageable workload.
Jason Thibeault
August 25, 2012 at 8:38 pm CDT (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Given that one of the folks we need to focus on (and I’ve had to be corrected on this privilege myself!) is the hearing-impaired atheist community, I gladly give permission for my part in the hangout. I would be seriously surprised if any of the other participants would refuse, in fact.
Jason Thibeault
August 25, 2012 at 8:44 pm CDT (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Hoh boy, that transcription couldn’t come too soon. Youtube’s automatic transcription service has this for 1:18:
“i am jason funeral i log at freak out looks dot com slash leskovec”.
Hilarity. But useless for the hearing-impaired.
trinioler
August 25, 2012 at 8:55 pm CDT (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Very much indeed Jason.
I’ve got a wiki setup, but we’re sort of testing it before we post it around more publicly. ^.^
Pteryxx
August 25, 2012 at 10:15 pm CDT (UTC -5) Link to this comment
*standing ovation for transcriptioneers*
Becky
August 25, 2012 at 11:29 pm CDT (UTC -5) Link to this comment
It was remarkable that Debbie was the only person of color in the conversation, and she seemed to raise the most questions and/or challenges (except for possibly Alex stating he didn’t see himself personally adopting the Humanist or A+ label). Considering that A+ is being billed as a way to fight racism and be inclusive of minority groups historically excluded from the movement, are there any people of color who are enthusiastic about Atheism+? I’ve asked in a number of comment spaces, through email, and facebook, but haven’t gotten a clear affirmative response. I don’t want to jump onto a train of good intentions when our target audience is riding boats, busses, and hovercraft.
Anonymous Atheist
August 26, 2012 at 12:57 am CDT (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Becky – The primary driving force in A+ formation was the misogyny problem (and 3/5 of the people who happened to participate in this video are women). The numerous other social justice and inclusiveness concerns can’t all be personally embodied by a small group of people.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck/2012/08/24/what-is-atheism-plus-a-response-to/
smhll
August 26, 2012 at 12:49 pm CDT (UTC -5) Link to this comment
re: metaphors that include “drumming”
I’ll go out on a limb with my interpretation, even though you all are better informed on the topic.
I would suggest that there isn’t an intention to “drum people out” of the larger atheist movement. However, there is the intention to repudiate the statements of some people, especially ignorant or hurtful statements. There is also the intention to retain the right to criticize statements and actions of people within the atheist movement who are behaving objectionably.
But we are seeing a rejection of “shut up and stay put for the greater good of atheism” type of argument. (Not a quote, a sweeping paraphrase.)
Wowbagger, Antipodean Dervish
August 27, 2012 at 1:37 am CDT (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Why, people raised many genuine, reasonable concerns about Atheism Plus, and they weren’t shouted at, bullied, silenced, ostracised, excommunicated, de-atheisted, or HUNTED DOWN.
This must be a fake!
Julien Rousseau
August 27, 2012 at 11:34 am CDT (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Indeed, I do however find it useful, especially in hour long videos like this one, to jump back just a few seconds by clicking the preceding garbled sentence as doing so with the red timeline is an exercise in frustration, often ending a minute before where you wanted to go.
Sandra E. Graham
August 27, 2012 at 7:03 pm CDT (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Sign me up, count me in. What can I do to further the cause. Finally,something that makes good sense.
carlie
August 27, 2012 at 10:29 pm CDT (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Becky, I think that the people involved share that concern. The idea of A+ is less than two weeks old right now, so it’s by default still mostly the usual suspects. I think the idea is to watch diversity levels very carefully as it hopefully grows, and listen to less-represented groups on what to do to serve and include them better.
smhll
August 28, 2012 at 3:40 pm CDT (UTC -5) Link to this comment
I liked Alex’s idea that atheists are more accepting of gay rights than other rights because Christian religion pushes one way and it’s easy to get on board with something that annoys the Christians. (Also, science supports homosexuality as a normal human variation, so we can pepper our discussions with lots of science if we are reluctant to just make moral claims.)
Science tells us that it’s normal for some people to be women. (cough) Religion tells us sex outside of marriage is a sin. So, hmm, if we really want to fly in the face of religion, we should encourage much wilder and freer fornication at conferences??? (This is my “extrapolation”, not anything that was said in the video.) I think some atheists are disappointed that “let’s break all the commandments and horrify the Xtians” isn’t always the party line.
We can’t draw straight parallels between the gay civil rights issues and the women’s rights issues that are currently in the forefront of our discussion. In the first case we are mostly talking about laws, and in the latter we’ve had a lot of talk about behavior that’s not legislated.
I know I’m discussing this poorly. Alex just started me thinking and I don’t have awesome conclusions, yet. It’s just a new way for me to look at why some issues garner more or less support in the atheist community.
As a takeaway for A+, I do think that doing science education on controversial issues is an important thing to do at conferences. Presenting data, letting people know about good data sources, critiquing flawed studies or flawed arguments and then letting people use their own critical faculties to make decisions seems like a good direction. If we are going to have any kind of “should” it should perhaps be “you should know this information” not “you must agree with my conclusion”. (People that don’t have the facts will often balk at the conclusion until they have the facts. We should respect the balk and educate through it?)
Transcript for Google+ hangout on Atheism Plus | Lousy Canuck
August 28, 2012 at 8:52 pm CDT (UTC -5) Link to this comment
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