Quantcast

«

»

Jul 10 2009

Two boats tethered together on a lake

I’m going to extend Greg Laden’s metaphor proclaiming (rightly, in my opinion) that the so-called “New Atheists” and the so-called “accommodationists” are in the same boat and bickering about what amounts to be the 1% difference between their philosophies. But first I’m going to set the stage for this rant, and I’m also going to do what a number of people in this Internet High Dudgeon have done — define all my terms (favorably to my argument, naturally).

Ever since crackergate, when PZ Myers pierced a cracker with a rusty nail and threw it away in an act of Great Import and Great Insult to the Catholic community, the atheist blogosphere has developed, in Greg’s words, a “great rift”. This rift divided those that think one should be respectful of others’ beliefs and quietly try to steer the religious toward science by example, even where their religious beliefs come into direct contradiction with science (so named “accommodationists”); and those that think there’s nothing special about religious beliefs and they should be discussed as heatedly as other ideas like who you’ll be voting for, or where to eat lunch (so named “New Atheists”). These two subfactions of atheistic thought have been clashing over their 1% difference, ignoring that the 99% difference that makes them science-loving atheists means they’re both pulling for the same end. That 1% makes up, entirely, what tactics to use and how accomodating (thus the name) one should be of belief systems that will inevitably (in the eyes of the New Atheists) come into direct conflict with our shared goals.

Recently, Chris Mooney of The Intersection wrote an article that raised my hackles, and crystallized my thoughts on this matter, when he suggested that we who argue on the side of science need to be careful not to alienate those religious moderates who accept some science already. To these people, Mooney says, we should defer; we should avoid shaking the foundations of their religion where they intersect with real science, because they have carefully built up walls to compartmentalize away their beliefs in the supernatural with their understanding of the natural and should these walls come down, who knows what side they may end up on? Mooney followed this up with a book (Full disclosure: Greg Laden’s partner code) in which he excoriated people like PZ Myers for not deferring enough to the religious’ irrationally held beliefs — like, say, that a piece of unleavened bread is somehow actually a piece of Jesus’ flesh and so doing something other than cannibalism is disrespectful of their “living God”. PZ cracked his knuckles and joined the fray with an unfavorable review of the book, on not only the basis that his own philosophy, blog, and commenters were directly insulted, but also that the book tells us everything that we already know about America being unscientific but doesn’t offer any good path forward (except for the paths forward that are put forth and roundly criticized by PZ anyway). Chris responded by attacking one of PZ’s commenters (without first identifying it as being a “representative”, meaning cherry-picked, comment, as opposed to PZ’s actual words, as Chris is a very busy man and doesn’t have time what with the book and all! — though six hours later he “clarified”), rather than answering the charges in PZ’s actual review; and in the meantime the existence of disgusting comments in Chris’ own threads apparently does not reflect upon him because he has filtered the word “bitch” now, suddenly and with great fanfare (despite his lack of time to answer PZ’s actual charges).

Enough setting the stage. I don’t want to poison the well too much in this one. The links speak for themselves.

Now, “New Atheist” needs definition as well, specifically because I don’t happen to believe there’s anything “new” about them. A “New Atheist” is merely an atheist who is not content to hide his/her beliefs so as to avoid raising the ire of the throngs of religious that surround us. They are “new” in that the main mode of atheists for the last fifty or so years has been to “not flaunt it” so as not to “annoy the religious”. Are you seeing any parallels with the homosexual rights movement yet, where conservatives say “I don’t have any problems with gays, as long as they don’t act gay in front of me”? Perhaps the parallel will serve to illustrate why so many atheists are upset by the 1% difference between them and Chris Mooney. Personally, I don’t much understand why atheists who happen to be “out”, so to speak, and happen to be particularly vociferous about their “out-ness”, have to also lead the religious by example, and show them that one can have a belief system that one does not have to advocate to others. In other words, the religious are the ones who proselytize, and we should show that we are better than them by being quiet and sitting down and letting the religious say their piece until we can meekly point them to the science and apologize for rattling their world views. What makes religion so special, in Douglas Adams’ words, that “it’s perfectly legitimate to support the Labour party or the Conservative party, Republicans or Democrats, this model of economics versus that, Macintosh instead of Windows, but to have an opinion about how the Universe began, about who created the Universe, no, that’s holy?”

My problem with deferring to the religious on religious matters is not that we should be civil with these people while shaking their belief systems — but that we should not merely be silent when the belief systems contradict that which is provable and in fact fundamental to our understanding of the universe. I absolutely agree that it is important to be civil while talking to someone — so that your meaning is not lost amongst the noise that an outright insult causes. However, sometimes the outright insult is what it takes to snap a person free from their own mode of argumentation, especially if their mode involves insults quite heavily.

We are all indeed on boats. The theists are in one boat, even those religious folks who understand and believe in evolution and science. The atheists are in another boat, both accomms and Nouveaus alike. These boats are tethered together on a lake, with the tether itself being the general public. Science is at one shore, and antiscience / faith / dogmatic religion on the other. These shores are mutually exclusive, despite some people’s claims; one cannot be on both shores at the same time, and if one IS on “both shores” it is because one is straddling the lake (and it’s a gigantic lake), and not merely on one of the side shores where the two beaches meet (because, let’s say, there’s jungles made up of tangled cognitive dissonance preventing one from doing so). Inside the boats, the “New Atheists” are paddling like the dickens to get both boats to the Science shore. They do not care that sometimes the splashing is getting occupants from the other boat wet occasionally. The accomodationists are asking the News to “please be careful not to splash the other boat, because we’re trying to convince them to stop rowing”. The “New Atheists” see this as “please stop trying so hard”.

Meanwhile, in the other boat, the people like Ken Miller, the religious moderates who believe in most (but not all) science, who are willing to take some things on faith in absence of evidence in a very unscientific manner, are either half-heartedly rowing or have abstained from rowing at all. They are mostly just along for the ride, and either don’t realize there’s even another boat or another shore behind them, or in some cases (like Miller), they realize it and see it, and are paddling toward the science shore with one oar and the religious shore with the other. They are not helping the situation at all for either party. These are the people the accomodationists are asking to stop rowing. They are in the minority on their boat. The remainder of their boat is made up of the very-religious who, while paddling like the dickens, are also, like the “New Atheists”, splashing the occupants of the other boat. And nobody is asking them to stop splashing, because to do so would get you summarily thrown out of the religious boat. The lake is littered with bodies that have been thrown overboard to sacrifice the “dead weight” from the religious boat, and as such, the religious boat has actually made some headway and the whole tethered rig is about a quarter closer to the religious shore than the science shore. Meanwhile, the very-religious keep trying to throw molotov cocktails over their shoulders in the form of poisoning children to the concept of science by attacking the education system, demonizing the scientific as evil sub-humans that are okay to kill now and then, and doing whatever is necessary to keep atheists from being listened to by the public. Once in a while they manage to light our boat on fire, but all the splashing keeps the fire from destroying the rig, just singing people now and then and maybe destroying an oar or two in the process.

Some of the atheists cry foul over this. Some try to make their own molotov cocktails, though the efforts invariably fail. The accommodationists demand that we not stoop to their level. People like PZ Myers mock the other side for having to throw cocktails, and people like Mooney keep elbowing the people like PZ in the head for it. Meanwhile, the religious are succeeding at pulling both our boats further and further toward the religious shore, wherein lies the promise of a new Dark Age.

The answer for us “New Atheists” is obviously not to throw Chris Mooney, or any other accomodationist, out of the boat. Nor is it to stop splashing so hard. Nor is it to stop asking the other side to stop rowing so hard. I don’t know what the actual answer IS, but one would think it would involve somehow stopping the religious from throwing molotov cocktails and countering their anti-scientific efforts in the real, as in non-metaphorical, world. It would also involve being a little more convincing, so that hopefully people like Ken Miller will eventually stop rowing one oar in the wrong direction.

And it would probably involve getting people like Mooney to stop elbowing people like PZ in the head repeatedly. And by my reading, any elbows thrown by PZ are in retaliation only.

20 comments

10 pings

Skip to comment form

  1. 1
    Mike Haubrich, FCD

    Exactly right, JT.

  2. 2
    Clifton

    Ever see the atheist episodes of south park?

  3. 3
    Jason Thibeault

    Yes, and the provenance of your mentioning it is not lost on me. The difference is, nobody here wants to worship Dawkins and Mr(s) Garrison as deities. Some people might do so in an all-atheist world, but these people are probably the same people prone to hero-worshipping a Jewish zombie carpenter. And this assumes that in getting rid of theism, you’re not also improving on the human species (through directed selection?) so that those same mental bugs that allow people to compartmentalize mutually exclusive thought processes don’t get ironed out.

    Science is self-correcting and doesn’t lend well to dogmatic structures. In fact, when dogmas get built and bad ideas take root and refuse to be removed when they should, the self-correcting nature suffers, thus science itself suffers. If science is adapted by all humans universally, there will still be wars and factions etc., it’s just they won’t be based on irrationality contrary to reality. (Unless we’re talking about politics. Then there’ll always be people who follow Ayn Rand despite the objective reality running counter to everything she espoused.)

  4. 4
    Clifton

    Meh, I just can’t believe I missed the obvious “little man in a boat” joke.

  5. 5
    Jason Thibeault

    DAMMIT! So did I.

    Well fuck.

  6. 6
    Clifton

    2 out of 2 atheists can’t find a clit.

  7. 7
    DuWayne

    And to strain another perfectly good metaphor (not to say that the boat metaphor isn’t great), the asshole atheist from up the street just ignores the hunt for the clit and shoots straight for the g-spot…

    Me, I decided to jump ship altogether and decided to get in the coast guard cutter out trolling for the poor schmucks the theists chucked out of their boat. Between getting chucked myself and seeing the mess they make of others they chuck from their boat, I have I must admit, gotten rather bitter about the theist boat.

    I’m all for lightening their boat until it’s easier to pull it away from their shore.

  8. 8
    Clifton

    So DuWayne prefers the pull and pray method.

  9. 9
    Jason Thibeault

    I prefer the “massive artillery” method, where you’ve got so much going on down there SOME of it’s bound to, at least accidentally, stimulate one of the two, doesn’t matter whether clit or g-spot.

    And apparently DuWayne would like to wage guerilla warfare. Care to be our side’s frogman? Or is that technically what you’re already doing with the strafing profanity-laden tirades?

  10. 10
    Clifton

    The problem with the massive artillery method is that if you don’t hit either target enough, its ultimately useless. I assume your aim must be decent, since Jodi has promoted you.

  11. 11
    Jason Thibeault

    Haha, I got to imply I “have massive artillery” on one of my more widely read posts, and Clifton, the guy most likely to counter it with some emasculating comment in a hugely public venue, deferred. Wow.

    I don’t kiss and tell. Or screw and blog, as the case may be. I will say she hasn’t complained.

  12. 12
    Clifton

    Haha, yeah, I couldn’t be that mean to you for the world to see. That’s something I’d do in a crowd of 4-10.

  13. 13
    DuWayne

    Oh, I gave up on the pull and pray method after number two was born – now I am all about the shooting blanks method…Though at the moment I am reassured by the fact that I can’t knock up my hands (because we all just need a little TMI now and then:)…

    And Jason, I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure that a Daisy Red Ryder doesn’t count as massive artillery (if your closer friends can’t emasculate you, someone needs to pick up the slack). Though I did manage to kill a rabbit with one once, that’s only because the rabbit was either really stupid, stone deaf or both.

    Ultimately though, I prefer the psychological, take them down one or two at a time approach. After that’s run it’s course for a while, then maybe we should bust out Jason’s Red Ryder…

  14. 14
    Skepacabra

    Great blog. Annoying metaphor. I definitely understand why this “1%” has sparked a serious conflict. As someone mostly on Team Myers, I’m really having difficulty understanding Team Mooney’s position, but I’m really trying to have a civil conversation. But on The Intersection, that’s just not possible. Too many strong emotions on both sides (though in my opinion, mostly on the Team Mooney’s side). I find those commenting to be way more juvenile than they should be.

  15. 15
    Dan J

    Ultimately though, I prefer the psychological, take them down one or two at a time approach. After that’s run it’s course for a while, then maybe we should bust out Jason’s Red Ryder…

    I prefer playing Special Ops in Resistance 2, and I really enjoy the sniping. Taking down Chimera one by one from a distance is great.

    As for shooting blanks, I’m happy to be a member of that club too!

  16. 16
    Jason Thibeault

    Thanks for not letting us all down, DuWayne. I knew I could count on you. Clifton just doesn’t have the stomach to take it to the next level, preferring to emasculate his targets only amongst their closest friends, rather than in front of hundreds of strangers. Oh well.

    Skepacabra, yeah, I’ve noticed as much — everyone on both sides’ emotions are running hot, but mocking derision is a hell of a pressure valve on PZ’s side of things. Plus Mooney has John Kwok on his side, which is so much hilarity it has to be illegal, and is bound to reduce a lot of the stress on the PZ side.

    Threw up another linking post. I’m out for most of the afternoon, fight the good fight folks!

  17. 17
    DuWayne

    Glad I could help….It’s much easier from a few thousand miles away and never having met you in person.

  18. 18
    Clifton

    Fine, Stubby. Next time I’ll emasculate you more ruthlessly, if that’s what will make you happy. :)

  19. 19
    Jason Thibeault

    There’s the Clifton I know and loathe! Welcome back.

  20. 20
    Mike Haubrich

    You can blogwhore any time you want from Tangled up in Blue Guy, BTW.

    I sent him an e-mail to go back to my comment and maybe he will open this link. It’s just also likely he likes feeling superior to us whinedogs.

  1. 21
    Accommodation and New Atheism in Brief | Tangled Up in Blue Guy

    [...] the newly engaged Lousy Canuck has a good post on the issue of blaming new atheists: We are all indeed on boats. The theists are [...]

  2. 22
    CyberLizard’s Collection » Can’t we all just get along?

    [...] Laden and Lousy Canuck do a much better job covering the argument than I can. Tangled Up In Blue Guy weighs in as [...]

  3. 23
    On Knowing the Difference Between Fantasy and Reality | Relatively Unrelated

    [...] and New Atheists Sail in the Same Boat. Jason, at Lousy Canuck weighs in with his analysis in Two boats tethered together on a lake. Stephanie Zvan has written an interesting take on a part of the discussion with Mere Factual [...]

  4. 24
    Lousy Canuck » Throw dem bows

    [...] more positive reviews, so what’s keeping you so busy that you can’t reply properly? Or is it that you know you threw the elbow, and don’t want to have to admit that perhaps you earned the retaliation? Or that the [...]

  5. 25
    Lousy Canuck » Blogospherics

    [...] comments on this post at Greg’s, which I’ve linked to on the Two boats post I put up a few days ago, has spiraled well out of control and evolved into a perfect example [...]

  6. 26
    Arrest the Pope for his crimes, not for any cause « Lousy Canuck

    [...] not pikemen, nor do we need to drive them off the field, weakening us all. Throwing elbows at the others in our boat is just going to get us dragged to the wrong side of the [...]

  7. 27
    A few blogospherics before bed « Lousy Canuck

    [...] again, quit elbowing the people on your side of this argument. Just because they do things differently, doesn’t mean that method is inherently wrong or [...]

  8. 28
    Are you a Capital-A Atheist? | Lousy Canuck

    [...] Atheism” dichotomy better and more thoroughly than I ever could. (Though I have tried, once upon a time.) Regardless, the fact that none of us attend a service, worship any particular [...]

  9. 29
    A few blogospherics before bed | Lousy Canuck

    [...] again, quit elbowing the people on your side of this argument. Just because they do things differently, doesn’t mean that method is inherently wrong or [...]

  10. 30
    Two boats tethered together on a lake (a repost) | Lousy Canuck

    [...] following is a repost from 07/10/2009 on Accomodationism vs New Atheism. Given how well it worked for Stephanie Zvan and [...]

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>