Quantcast

«

»

Aug 08 2013

10 Rules for Managing Your Vagina

I might write something more earnest about this when I get the chance, but just for now…

Ten Rules for Managing Your Vagina

No.1: Don’t let any fucker tell you what to do with your vagina. It’s yours.

No. 2: Don’t let any fucker tell you what to do with your vagina. It’s yours.

No. 3: Don’t let any fucker tell you what to do with your vagina. It’s yours.

No.4: Don’t let any fucker tell you what to do with your vagina. It’s yours.

No.5: Don’t let any fucker tell you what to do with your vagina. It’s yours.

No.6: Don’t let any fucker tell you what to do with your vagina. It’s yours.

No.7: Don’t let any fucker tell you what to do with your vagina. It’s yours.

No.8: Don’t let any fucker tell you what to do with your vagina. It’s yours.

No.9: Don’t let any fucker tell you what to do with your vagina. It’s yours.

No.10: Don’t let any fucker tell you what to do with your vagina. It’s yours.

 

UPDATE 08/08/13

I’ve written some additional thoughts on Suzanne Moore’s piece here. Might as well point out that I had no desire to write a line by line take down or rebuttal – this blog catches my feelings about it as well as anything I could say at length. But it did set me off on some tangential musings on, well, penises.

 

53 comments

3 pings

Skip to comment form

  1. 1
    Kevin, 友好火猫 (Friendly Fire Cat)

    Do not read the comments on that article.

  2. 2
    summerblues

    I’m speechless except for one part.

    How many times do women need to be told …those wipes and “fresheners” for women? They do more harm than good. If you (general “you”, not aimed at anyone directly) wish to feel “fresh”, plain old water or plain old soap and water does just fine (unscented, gentle soaps – nothing with perfume in it, those can cause unpleasant reactions).

    We all now have access to symptom checker websites, so if anyone has any questions or concerns we can go there. No need for a “mom” journalist to tell us what to do.

  3. 3
    John Austin

    I just don’t see the point of SM’s article.
    It fails as humour because it’s not very funny. If it is making a point about how men are always telling women what to do with their bodies, again it fails because I’m not clear how that is true in the mainstream media. Women’s magazines may well do so, I don’t read them so I don’t know. The Taliban do, sure, but if they are the target then I wonder how many read CIF.
    Otherwise what’s the satire here?
    It also feeds the trolls, the thing female writers get upset about, yet here is SM yanking their chains. The weirdoes will be all over that article. Again I appreciate that it’s not all about me, but many people don’t see that when they read an Internet article and go straight into rant mode.
    I’m bemused.

  4. 4
    redpesto

    John Austin:

    I just don’t see the point of SM’s article.

    She’s aiming for a gig at the National Enquirer?

    In any other context, a ‘People Do the Stupidest Things – Special Penis Edition!’ would be mildly amusing (Nuts or Zoo would have run it as ‘banter’, Forum might have run it with a bit more practical advice). In this context, however, it just looks like Moore baiting the (male) readers (see also the ‘#KillAllMen’ twitterspat).

  5. 5
    carnation

    @ Ally Fogg

    No mention of penises, you misandrist ;-)

  6. 6
    pikeamus

    The biggest problem I have with the article is how confused it is. The author seems to have mixed lighter humourours items with serious issues, see number 3 (the no penis in toaster advice) vs number 5 (don’t rape). Some items references to current events (number 1, sexing politicians) while others are unconnected with any other news stories and just seem to be things the author wanted to rant about (numbers 2 and 8 for example, hygiene and piercing). There are things played straight followed by attempted use of sarcasm (number 7, I assume anyway – it’s written very clumsily).

    Quite aside from the double standard it’s just a really badly written piece of attempted humour. Also I have a real pet hate for people intejecting their own personal preferences on lists like these. What business is it to anyone else if someone names their penis?

  7. 7
    Lucy

    But what one does with one’s own vagina can have wider social implications.

    If fuckers don’t tell me not to use my vagina for ill, bad things can happen.

  8. 8
    Ginkgo

    What a waste of human flesh Suzanne Moore is.

    Ws she trying to be funny? Is that what No. 7 is supposed to be? It’s homophobic filth, just like she is.

  9. 9
    maudell

    I think she’s mostly trying to mirror slut shaming. Like the ‘a woman is broken if she’s had more than X partners’ type of rules. In my experience, slut shaming comes about as much from men as from women (and is particularly targeted at non-caucasian women).

    It seems like she assumes there are no strict societal rules on men’s sexuality, which would be absurd. In any case, it’s hard to get her point. Ally’s ‘article’ is clearer and better written.

    @Ginkgo – Since she writes that she agrees with Stephen Fry, I think this is supposed to be in support of gay rights. Regardless, it’s badly written (her meaning is not clear) and the lighthearted inclusion of these cases in an half baked satirical piece conveys a lack of empathy. Given her past bigotry, I’m not convinced her support is genuine.

  10. 10
    Art Vandelay

    The list of 10 things to manage your penis was mildly amusing because current events would seem to suggest that some people actually need such advice. The list of 10 things (or, rather, 1 thing repeated 10 times) to manage your vagina seems written by an angry person with limited cognitive skills and no sense of humor trying to make a point in a way that she thinks is funny but isn’t.

  11. 11
    Schala

    Like the ‘a woman is broken if she’s had more than X partners’ type of rules. In my experience, slut shaming comes about as much from men as from women (and is particularly targeted at non-caucasian women).

    Ironically, the more hypersexual you are considered, the more slut-shamed you get.

    See this:

    Bailey accurately quotes the CDC statistics of 1981: “AIDS patients with an average age of 35 years reported an average of 60 sex partners per year, or approximately 1000 lifetime partners” and he notes the gasps from his students at Northwestern University when gay panelists confess that they have had hundreds of sexual partners (p. 86).

    By heterosexual standards, Bailey notes, gay men are promiscuous. Then as if to excuse the promiscuity, he uses a Clintonian defense, suggesting that it depends on what you actually mean by having sex. “Gay men,” he notes “don’t have vaginal sex much!”

    “Social conservatives have taken the facts like these as evidence for the decadent and perverse nature of gay men,” he says. “I think they’re wrong. Gay men who are promiscuous are expressing an essentially masculine trait. They are doing what most heterosexual men would do if they could. They are in this way just like heterosexual men, except that they don’t have women to constrain them” (p.87).

    And for some uncited reasons, transsexual women are considered even more promiscuous than gay men. Some reporters don’t even make the distinction between a trans woman prostitute and a trans woman who isn’t one.

    This doesn’t help one bit reinforce the notion that all men are perverts (which yes, IS slut-shaming). That all men want to see women undressing, at any particular time, even their family (ie only men will be peeping changing rooms – and ALL men would if they could get away with it) – because sex is powerful.

    Men are just slut-shamed in a different way. Instead of being told “keep your virtue!”, men are being told “stop destroying the virtue of others!”, because men don’t have a virtue period, and are assumed to be on the wrong side of the pervert divide right off. If they don’t prove to be perverted with women, most people tend to assume they’re gay (as in uninterested in women – still perverted, but with men). Being not-perverted is pretty much impossible in the common sense collective of people, for anyone born with a penis.

  12. 12
    Schala

    By the way, I’m citing NARTH, which was citing J Michael Bailey.

    Source: http://narth.com/docs/queen.html

  13. 13
    Ginkgo

    Art @ 10 “The list of 10 things to manage your penis was mildly amusing because current events would seem to suggest that some people actually need such advice. ”

    You find No. 7 “mildly amsuing? Disgusting. Repellant.

    “The list of 10 things (or, rather, 1 thing repeated 10 times) to manage your vagina seems written by an angry person with limited cognitive skills and no sense of humor trying to make a point in a way that she thinks is funny but isn’t.”

    Ally wrote the OP. Ally is a man. Do you consider reading comprehension to be a cognitive skill? Whose cognitive skills are limited?

    Curent events would see to suggest that some people with vaginas need the same advice, but that doesn’t justifying broadsiding all people with vaginas with this kind of pathetic crap.

    maudell @ 9 – I agree. She says she agrees with Stephen Fry. Whoop-di-doo. I bet she even wears a red ribbon when the occasion calls for it too.

  14. 14
    carnation

    deleted by AF for off-topic and shameless mischief.

  15. 15
    Copyleft

    Here’s the “judgy bitch” take on that allegedly humorous article.

    http://judgybitch.com/2013/08/08/ten-rules-for-managing-your-vagina/

  16. 16
    John Austin

    15 Copyleft

    JudgyBitch

    Thanks for the link, but I’ve obviously been reading the Guardian too long and got infected with all them thar Leftie PC views to think she’s funny. Or even on the same planet as me.

  17. 17
    summerblues

    One thing I’be been noticing is there seems to be an awfully lot of women talking about men’s issues and not in a…”nice” way, like “hey, ladies, the men are going through this”. Regular sites, not the MRA’s sites. It never struck me as odd until recently.

    Judgy Bitch = not funny. Perhaps valid points, but not funny. The original lists’ author is serious and seriously wrong to be doing it. Two wrongs and all, JB has done nothing but give Feminists ™ more fuel.

  18. 18
    F [i'm not here, i'm gone]

    Vagina Management 101: Although written as if it is addressed to those with vaginas, the larger benefit comes from the non-vagina-owners getting this through their thick skulls.

  19. 19
    Art

    @ Ginkgo, 13: So I didn’t click on Ally Fogg to find out that he was a man…. and that somehow means I didn’t comprehend something? Large disconnect in your logic there. Perhaps you should move out of your mother’s basement and stop trying to start arguments with strangers on the Internet. There is more to life than being a troll. As for No. 7, have you ever heard of sarcasm?

  20. 20
    Paul

    Ally

    Given it’s the Guardian we’re talking about i suspect you’ve got more chance of getting an article entitled ” 10 Rules For Managing Your Mangina”. published on cif.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/youareheresf/4601055525/

  21. 21
    Ysanne

    Pretty much the same advice would apply equally to women, with maybe “don’t stick it in X” switched around to “don’t stick X in it”. (Oh and don’t just read the titles ffs — a good bunch of them is sarcastic.)
    Not raping people is a must for everyone (it’s sad that apparently more men than women seem need a reminder). Being marginally sensible and thinking through consequences when it comes to sexting, using household items on your genitals, maintaining basic hygiene, and judging the benefits of surgical modifications are good advice, too, regardless of what kind of bits you have.
    Re No. 7 — it’s obviously sarcasm, could have been written way better though.

    The only issue I have with the article is that it calls the 10 points “rules” instead of “pieces of advice”.

  22. 22
    pikeamus

    I found:

    However those who argued “you would never let a man write something like this about women’s bits” are quite spectacularly wrong.

    from your article to be off base, given that the issue in question was the Guardian’s editorial policy rather than society as a whole. Not that this was my main complaint with the original anyway, I just thought it was a crap, lazy, ill-considered bit of writing.

  23. 23
    pikeamus

    Oh and for that matter I didn’t agree with:

    t is obvious why “small penis” is the go-to insult for anyone wishing to puncture manly hubris. Concerns over size and girth do often dominate men’s – especially adolescent and younger men’s – body image concerns, and comical though it may seem, it causes real distress to some. Very few of those anxieties about length and girth originate in women’s (or gay partners’) concerns, preferences or desires. They mostly boil down to inter-male rivalries and hierarchies of masculinity – the pecker pecking order, if you will: the bigger the mister, the bigger the man.

    I very distinctly remember the girls at school giggling while asking the baffled boys if they could measure their hands (you know, the urban myth of penis size and finger length) and a particular drama class where the girls took great delight on sitting on laps until they’d get a reaction, and how much of a reaction was certainly a point of discussion. I’d be surprised to hear that my experience in this respect was unusual.

    Not that I’m particularly inclined to argue… just filling some time before I can go home for the weekend :) In general I liked your article.

  24. 24
    Ginkgo

    Art @ 19 – “As for No. 7, have you ever heard of sarcasm?”

    Oh, please. Have you ever heard of a “lame excuse?”

    I wonder if Suzanne Moore would think a rapae joke was similarly “sarcasm”. Oh of course not, because that would be “different” because power differential or some such special pleading.

    “Perhaps you should move out of your mother’s basement and stop trying to start arguments with strangers on the Internet. ”

    Perhaps you should learn some new brainless dismissals. I’m old enough to be your grandfather.

  25. 25
    Jacob Schmidt

    “Todger in the toaster” would be a great band name.

    Art

    Perhaps you should move out of your mother’s basement and stop trying to start arguments with strangers on the Internet.[1] There is more to life than being a troll. As for No. 7, have you ever heard of sarcasm?[2]

    1) If arguing online was sufficient for determining that state of one’s accomodations, what does this say about you?

    2) Meh. It was poorly written and sends a harmful message, at best. Sarcasm about touchy issues needs to be well written, otherwise you jjust sound like every other asshole.

    Ginkgo

    I wonder if Suzanne Moore would think a rapae joke was similarly “sarcasm”. Oh of course not…

    Given that plenty of people (including yourself) are annoyed with messages telling men not to rape, why is sarcasm impossible?

  26. 26
    Jacob Schmidt

    Wait, never mind. Just read number 5. She’s clearly not sarcastic in that one.

  27. 27
    John Austin

    I liked your article AllyF, but felt it was a bit apologetic in tone. I know your editors are female who toe a strongly feminist line so perhaps it’s surprising you got to write it at all.

  28. 28
    Unfamiliar w/ your ways

    @19. Art-
    Speaking of missing the point, we were more wondering why you would assume Ally was an angry female in the first place. Please, do tell.

    But please avoid further ad hominem (personal) attacks. It makes you look childish and combative to already start slinging them after only two posts, and the irony of accusing someone of being combative in an insult sandwich is not lost on the rest of us. It amuses us, but is not conducive to productive discourse. Cheers

  29. 29
    summerblues

    I think your article is good, Ally. You could have taken the bait and written a serious list but you didn’t. I appreciate that. When I first saw your list here I thought it was yet another article written for women telling us to keep our legs closed, to put it nicely.

    I don’t know what type of paper this is that she writes for but I don’t see what she wrote as satire. She meant what she said, even though she added in a few “haha” words. She isn’t kidding. I didn’t read the list in full, so I missed the homophobic (?) part the first time. I dismissed what she wrote, “yeah, yeah, whatever “mom”. The second reading didn’t help. It’s one thing to be baffled by what appears to be goofy, stereotypical frat-boy behavior in an adult man who should know better. That’s not how she put it.

    Thanks, Ally.

  30. 30
    Dani Wells

    I was a little stunned by the gay comment in the list but other than that I found it pretty funny but what I found even funnier was the comments. Wow did I ever laugh at that outpouring of grief.

  31. 31
    Sasori

    I think the initial article is a fantastic example of why the discourse around gender politics is so toxic and unpleasant; It’s also a good answer to Ally’s question “what is it about feminism that can drive some men to behave like infuriated One Direction fans,” Imagine being a teenage/early 20′s boy (unaware of the context) who might come across that article. imho, much of the tone is set by people who are paid lots of money to write vituperative clickbait and the debate degenerates from there.

    Also from the OP article, “Throughout known history the phallus has been invested with symbolic and even magical significance to fertility, strength, domination and conquest. It is a marker of masculine status, and discussed in terms of violent weaponry by braggart men”
    I’m not even sure that this is true, or that it’s more true of the sexual organs (and secondary characteristics ) of women (and that many women have taken pride in these across history). Have you ever seen the tiny penises of statues in classical Greece/Rome, this is for aesthetic reasons (it was considered a male beauty ideal esspecially in Greece) but also because small penises were seen as civilised etc and large penises were generally considered degenerate, barbaric and/or grotesque (obviously they had different ideas in the ‘heroic’ Celtic cultures). Wierdly, at the same time people would have statues of giant penises to ward off evil. Priapus the minor god with a huge beef submarine that’s permanently erect, was cursed with ugliness and a bestial mind; that was common in depictions of bumper size wangs iirc. I think it’s only in the very recent past that a large penis has been considered the ideal. The common stereotype of black (but also Irish, Greek, Italian etc) men having large penises is (I think) associated with another one of the more bestial or animal nature of these men; this seems very similar to Greek/Roman ideas about barbarian cultures.

  32. 32
    Ginkgo

    JS @ 25 – “Given that plenty of people (including yourself) are annoyed with messages telling men not to rape, why is sarcasm impossible?”

    Oh it’s not impossible. It’s just that in the case of homophobia or rape, it’s not even close to acceptable. Unless she is joking about her own rape, i suppose. But a lesbian joking about homophobia against gay men? Not close to acceptable.

    In fact this kind of gay shaming is a good example of how [some] feminsts reinforce the patriarchy.

  33. 33
    Paul

    Ally

    Suzanne Moore is on record as saying she doesn’t take seriously the idea that men can face gender discrimination She’s also been guilty of making comments which many have interpreted as being transphobic and homophobic. Suzanne Moore may have come from a working class background but compared to most men and women in this country she’s now in a relatively privileged position.So of course it grates that she’s allowed to get away with writing her ” 10 Rules For Managing A Penis” article when a male journalist of her stature clearly would never be allowed by the Guardian to write a simiar piece about a vagina. And it reflects badly on you that you seem to want to ingratiate yourself with Guardianista feminists by justifying this double standard when you stated in your article that male writers do get away with telling women how they should manage their vaginas. For the fact is i’ve never seen a Guardian article from a male journalist telling women how they should manage their vaginas.

    it seems to me that whenever you write something about gender you have one eye on what the Guardianista sisterhood is thinking. It’s like you really don’t want to ruffle their feathers. Well sorry Ally sometimes Guardianistas feministas need to be confronted with the fact that gender equality cuts both ways and that whilst women are entitlted to be treated equally with men they;re not entitlted to any special consideration.

  34. 34
    Unfamiliar w/ your ways

    @33. Paul~
    Ignoring for a minute how close your “guardianista feminsta” labels do or do not approach violating the hetpat prime directive ™, I’m pretty sure Ally’s mention of other male authors doing exactly that isn’t directed at the Guardian, more just historical male behaviors and cultural expectations. Look bigger picture. Globally and historically, human males are apparently all about regulating their females

  35. 35
    Unfamiliar w/ your ways

    @11. & 12. Schala~
    “And for some uncited reasons, transsexual women are considered even more promiscuous than gay men. Some reporters don’t even make the distinction between a trans woman prostitute and a trans woman who isn’t one.”

    Is this true?? I have a transgender friend but I haven’t had the courage to discuss her sex life yet, and now I don’t know what to expect…

    “This doesn’t help one bit reinforce the notion that all men are perverts (which yes, IS slut-shaming)”…
    “Men are just slut-shamed in a different way. Instead of being told “keep your virtue!”, men are being told “stop destroying the virtue of others!”, because men don’t have a virtue period, and are assumed to be on the wrong side of the pervert divide right off”…. “Being not-perverted is pretty much impossible in the common sense collective of people, for anyone born with a penis.”

    I agree with much of your criticism, but beware hyperbole. Suzanne Moore notwithstanding, I don’t think the “men are perverts” meme is as based in the assumption that men are without virtue, but more an understanding between men that yes, as you say, sex is powerful, and the default male hardware has definite weaknesses, but using the word “virtue” in either direction makes me think of outdated tropes about virginal daughters and ruffian men. Not very applicable, though if I take a bit of my own advice and look at the broader scope, probably more applicable than I’m comfortable with. Still, thinking in terms of reducing a wide variety of behaviors to a single axis of virtue seems problematic.

    Of course, I see that you are criticizing society for this reductionist dichotomy, so, uh, yeah, rock on

  36. 36
    summerblues

    Question to all: If the author of the original piece were not a feminist, would her article be acceptable?

  37. 37
    Amy Cocks

    So like,

    “Men shouldn’t ever modify their own personal behaviour for the benefits of others or even their own personal safety”

    And then the same, written nine more times?

    That’s exactly the sort of attitude that has you lot dying from incredibly preventable accidents all the fucking time. The old blokes who’ve told you to think first, use your tools properly, work as a team and not do stupid things that’ll jeopardise the whole affair are parcelling out the exact same kind of advice.

    And probably being ignored or derided too.

    Tangentially and also histrionically Sasori; Codpieces.

  38. 38
    Amy Cocks

    (haha…should have said “historically”, but it went and converted to “histrionically” before even noticing. Fun)

  39. 39
    unfamiliar w/ your ways

    @36. summerblues~

    no way, it would have been just as condescending, facile, and the rest of the adjectives we’ve been bandying, had the author no formal ties to movement feminism. equally crap of a read.

  40. 40
    pikeamus

    @36. summerblues~

    If this article was written by a male men’s issues advocate it would still be a crap piece of writing with no coherent point. The only criticism that would drop is that it could no longer be said that the guardian editiorial policy was hypocritical.

  41. 41
    Paul

    @34 Unfamiliar

    I would agree that in the overall scheme of things there are far more important gender issues to address than ”penisgate”. And yes i would agree with you that globally men have sought to control women .But i’m talking about the context in which gender issues are addressed by the Guardian here in Blighty .And that the Guardian would never have permitted a high profile male journalist to write a ”tongue in cheek” article for it’s largely british readership along the lines of ”10 ways to mangae your vagina”.

    Suzanne Moore has previous form with regard to the way she pours scorn over the idea that men and boys in THIS COUNTRY can and do face gender discriminations. And she has no qualms about making comments which some interpret as being either transphobic or homophobic. She’s a relatively privileged woman who writes extensively on CIF where all issues related to gender are controlled by women and where double standards which favour women seem to apply. And wher it seems that male journalists feel they have to bend over backwards not to upset the status quo in a way that wouldn’t apply to female journalists.

  42. 42
    Ginkgo

    JS @ 25 – “Given that plenty of people (including yourself) are annoyed with messages telling men not to rape, why is sarcasm impossible?”

    Actually, I’m not a bit annoyed with that message. It’s just that it’s a message boys grow up with, not that girls would know anything about that, so when privileged little universtiy white girls use it as a club from some suppsoed psoition of moral superiority, it’s grating. But the message is still valid, even if it’s only half the story.

    The other half of the story deals with Ally’s “No.5: Don’t let any fucker tell you what to do with your vagina. It’s yours.”

    This fucker will tell you not to put your vagina over other people’s parts unles they want it. Don’t assume your vagina is God’s gift to all men and that they just inherently consent, or that they are misogynist for not wanting sex with you. Don’t gay-shame them if they don’t consent, don’t acuse them of insulting your ravishingly irrestible femalae charms if they don’t consent, don’t threaten them that you will accuse them of rape if they don’t consent. Don’t have sex with drunk or sleeping men; that’s rape. Don’t deny that women rape or tolerate laws that fail to outlaw women raping, or seek to downplay womemn rapaing by referring to traditionalist sexual sterotypes rather than actual statisitcs reflecting the incidence of non-concensual sex..

  43. 43
    summerblues

    What is with this assholish generalization, Ginko. I’m sitting here not denying that women rape and, unlike what I’ve been advised by someone here, not turning and walking away.

    Do you really want to play this game?

  44. 44
    Ginkgo

    “What is with this assholish generalization, Ginko. ”

    What generalization would that be?

    It’s not a generalization to say that the law in the UK does not call it rape when a woman rapes, it’s a statement of a specific fact.

    What kind of generlaization is it to say that it is rape to force sex on a sleeping or drunk man? I’m not following.

    What is your objection?

  45. 45
    summerblues

    I reread your comment just to make sure..nope, not seeing anywhere in that comment where the law doesn’t recognize that men are raped by women. Shall we go line by line or can you just reread what you wrote, only change the gender. I thought that this was the kind of crap that men didn’t like to be told by women…and here you are, telling me what to do with my vagina. I’m gonna give you the benefit of the doubt that you’re just having a bad day. It isn’t like you to misspell words.

    Ah, there it is, tucked in there with some other…well, such.

    I wasn’t taught that women could rape. Oh, no. I was taught that I must submit..every.single.time, no matter whether I wanted it or not. I was taught that I had to keep a man from “falling”, that I had to please my man always lest he stray and it would be my fault. I was taught that my “no” didn’t count. I was taught that men want sex all the time, hence…don’t say no. I. Don’t. Count.

    Sigh..not everyone was taught the same thing, understand? And your comment about, what was it, little rich white girls? GMaFB. Tell that to the football players who think they and their peens are God’s gift and that the girls should worship them. Hell, tell that to the “dude” that I went out on one freaking date with and he expected sex. When I didn’t give him what he wanted, he called me a few non-unique names.

  46. 46
    Sasori

    37./Amy Cocks

    >”Tangentially and also histrionically Sasori; Codpieces.”

    Balls, I over egged my point in a bit where I was trying to say somebody was over egging their point.
    http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5086/5381079304_ef91e4750d_z.jpg
    I think this one is more likely to provoke histrionics though
    http://cinemarant.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/nottheboner1.gif

    They were super popular for only around for a few hundred years I think. Also I found out that at various times powerful women used to have dangerously super plunging Décolletages as a sign of power and status etc. I was just trying to say that massive cock = power etc wasn’t always true and neither was it only true of cocks. I guess I should’ve probably just said that. Derp.

  47. 47
    Schala

    I was taught that men want sex all the time, hence…don’t say no. I. Don’t. Count.

    So in this sentence, you admit to have been taught that men’s consent was ALWAYS THERE (ie not conditional on wanting it), because of biology. Isn’t it rape culture?

  48. 48
    summerblues

    No, Schala, when he didn’t want it then we didn’t do anything. There was no question that his “no means no.” I didn’t have that option.

    What part of “i was taught that I was his sex toy/slave” don’t you get?

  49. 49
    Sauls Thomas

    |Deleted by AF: Off topic]

  50. 50
    unfamiliar w/ your ways

    @41. Paul~

    I can tell she’s a shitbag author from this one piece alone, my first and last I’ll ever care to read from her. I guess we just don’t have such a high-profile analogue here in the US where this sort of thing happens on this scale. Fair enough.
    But still, I don’t think Ally is toeing any kind of line here, the stances in his Guardian pieces here presented are 100% consistent with his non-Guardian publishing. Which was the point of my jumping in; I think Ally deserves a little more credit for intellectual integrity than that.

    But again, I only found Ally a few months ago when he joined FtB, and I am not a UK citizen, so I acknowledge my limited frame of reference here

  51. 51
    Ginkgo

    summerblues @ 45 “not seeing anywhere in that comment where the law doesn’t recognize that men are raped by women. ”

    FYI they have a rape law in Britain. And it specifies that only entry by a penis qualifies as rape and ion the penis-owner can be the rapist. Get

    “I thought that this was the kind of crap that men didn’t like to be told by women…and here you are, telling me what to do with my vagina.”

    So you do mind being told not to rape. Or is that you believe a woman categorically cannot rape a man? Please clarifiy.

    “I wasn’t taught that women could rape. Oh, no. I was taught that I must submit..every.single.time, no matter whether I wanted it or not. I was taught that I had to keep a man from “falling”, that I had to please my man always lest he stray and it would be my fault. I was taught that my “no” didn’t count. I was taught that men want sex all the time, hence…don’t say no. I. Don’t. Count. ”

    What backwoods shithole did yoyu grow up in? Some polygamist colony in Arizona, some weird immigrnat enclave? I’m not doubting your experiences, i’m just saying they are culturally quite marginal in the US.

    “Sigh..not everyone was taught the same thing, understand? And your comment about, what was it, little rich white girls? GMaFB. Tell that to the football players who think they and their peens are God’s gift and that the girls should worship them. Hell, tell that to the “dude” that I went out on one freaking date with and he expected sex. When I didn’t give him what he wanted, he called me a few non-unique names.”

    I am so done with We Lady Tears. Yes, yes, I don’t doubt that they can be genuine and in response to real injuries. Like I said *rich* white girls, who grow up with the world wound around their vaginas, that meal ticket between their legs. Poor white girls do get ground up in this society, but that’s not who I’m talking about.

    White Lady Tears – the cultural context has to be remembered. So you’ll have to excuse me from the lynch mob.

  52. 52
    summerblues

    I have no idea what “White Lady Tears” is. I looked it up. Perhaps you could explain a bit better before I rip into you? The name calling happened once. I stopped dating for a while and questioned who I was choosing to date, figured I wasn’t doing so good in the choosing department.

    Small farm town, USA; lower middle class; SAHM, working Marine Corp. Dad; Christian (Catholic) Conservative Republican Traditionalist (takes bow)

    So now you’ve changed it, of course you’re not talking about those poor lower class women. (of course, rich white boys are angels/sarc) We can go back and forth for hours, you bring the arrogant, entitled rich white twat stories and I’ll bring the arrogant, entitled rich white prick stories (I don’t drink so you’ll have to bring your own alcohol). That’ll get us exactly nowhere. Kinda like an argument I was able to not have with a Christian over which side has the bigger body count: atheists or them.

    You got balls telling me to “not rape” when I’m not really seeing much coming from “men” trying to put a stop to rapes done by men. What I’m seeing here is “but women do it, too!”. Well, alrighty then, if men can rape then so can women. I’ll take your word for it, on faith so to speak. So….what do you propose be done to put a stop to this whole human-rapey thingy, hmmm? To go by observation, telling folks “don’t rape” doesn’t seem to be working. Victim-blaming just seems to be hurting and preventing folks from reporting rape. Folks that share their stories online get crucified. “Satire” is written. Hmmm…

  53. 53
    deras

    Pretty nice post. I simply stumbled upon your blog and wanted to say that I’ve truly loved browsing your blog posts. In any case I’ll be subscribing for your feed and I’m hoping you write again soon!

  1. 54
    Punditry of the penis: let's see this simple, elegant organ for what it is | Ally Fogg | Body Mind Spirit Gate

    […] than in the prevailing spirit of trollolol but anyway, a few moments later I had realised my list would be pretty simple and (yes, I know, not for the first time) scarcely justify the commissioning […]

  2. 55
    Punditry of the penis: let’s see this simple, elegant organ for what it is | Ally Fogg | Firstpage Online UK News .co.uk

    […] than in the prevailing spirit of trollolol but anyway, a few moments later I had realised my list would be pretty simple and (yes, I know, not for the first time) scarcely justify the commissioning […]

  3. 56
    Punditry of the penis: let’s see this simple, elegant organ for what it is | Ally Fogg | Comment is free | theguardian.com | JerBear's Queer News, Views & Memories

    […] than in the prevailing spirit of trollolol but anyway, a few moments later I had realised my list would be pretty simple and (yes, I know, not for the first time) scarcely justify the commissioning […]

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite="" class=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>