Kansas Teacher Equates Being Gay with Murder
Here’s a guy who should be nowhere near students in a public school. A Kansas middle school teacher wrote on his Facebook page, where many of his friends included his students, that being gay is just like being a murdered in the eyes of God.
Jack Conkling, a Prairie Hills Middle School social studies teacher and Buhler High School assistant women’s basketball coach in Buhler, Kan., is under fire after equating being gay to being a murderer on his Facebook profile, the Hutchinson News reports.
In his post, Conkling comments on gay marriage, writing that homosexuality “ranks in God’s eyes the same as murder, lying, stealing, or cheating.”
According to the paper, several of his students who were also his Facebook friends left comments on the post, something that led the school to eventually take notice.
And in response, he offers religio-babble:
“I wrote what I wrote for my Facebook friends who understand my heart and my intent,” Conkling told the Hutchinson News. “I understand that there were some folks who didn’t understand my heart, and while that’s sad, it is what it is.”
Phrases like “knows my heart” are standard-issue religious babble, literally meaningless tripe. Imagine being a gay student in one of his classes. Imagine being a gay student looking to him for protection from bullying. What’s he going to say, “Well God thinks you’re as bad as a murderer, so you had it coming”?
Spanish Inquisitor:
May 21st, 2012 at 2:17 pm
Well, teh gheys are responsible for the death of the INSTITUTION of MARRIAGE, aren’t they? That sounds like a capital offense.
Alverant:
May 21st, 2012 at 2:18 pm
FYI you have “is just like being a murdered in the eyes of God” emphasis added.
It would also appear he’s equating stealing and lying with killing people.
“folks who didn’t understand my heart”
Oh I think most people understand your heart. You think being gay is on par with killing.
Who Knows?:
May 21st, 2012 at 2:23 pm
Well, isn’t he right? I’ve only read the Bible once so I may be wrong. I don’t recall “God” saying otherwise.
christophburschka:
May 21st, 2012 at 2:24 pm
This is hate speech and emotional abuse. The guy should be out on his ears instead of being allowed to work with children.
Chiroptera:
May 21st, 2012 at 2:33 pm
Alverant, #2: It would also appear he’s equating stealing and lying with killing people.
That he is. But, exaggerated as it is, at least stealing and lying are generally wrong. Unlike being gay.
Homo Straminus:
May 21st, 2012 at 2:36 pm
As Alverant, I’m more surprised he think lying, stealing, and cheating (on tests, presumably?) are the same as murder. Really? Really?
Because I’m pretty sure he’s lied on any non-discrimination agreement he’s ever signed.
d cwilson:
May 21st, 2012 at 2:36 pm
We understand your heart. Your heart is a black, hateful place.
unbound:
May 21st, 2012 at 2:39 pm
Sadly, I’ve heard worse from a middle school teacher my daughter encountered. I even raised his comments to one of the vice-principals…he still works there.
Zinc Avenger:
May 21st, 2012 at 2:46 pm
But it’s okay! You just need to understand his heart.
I, for one, wish to understand his heart. Prepare the vivisection table for a good old-fashioned sciencin’.
chriskg:
May 21st, 2012 at 2:48 pm
Why is it that the very people who have a godly prohibition against judging others the first to do so?
eric:
May 21st, 2012 at 2:48 pm
It would also appear he’s equating stealing and lying with killing people.
My good side says bigotry needs to be fought. But my cynical side says use it to imporve their behavior. I.e., tell these idiots: if you kill an abortion doctor, its just as bad as having gay sex. Lying about what you posted on your web page? Like gay sex. Not paying your taxes? Like gay sex with your Uncle Sam. And so on. Make the point that all their antisocial behavior is as wrong in the eyes of God as gay sex.
Then I come to my senses and realize this would just reinforce the hate, and its more of a Tarantino-type revenge fantasy than a realistic solution.
chriskg:
May 21st, 2012 at 2:50 pm
Why is it that the very people who have a godly prohibition against judging others are the first to do so?
*fixed*
karlalowe:
May 21st, 2012 at 2:56 pm
First thing I noticed: “…Facebook, where many of his friends included his students …”
That’s the first thing that should have gotten him fired. A teacher is FB friends with Middle-school students!?!?
I’ve never heard of a high school, let alone a middle school that didn’t have a policy prohibiting this.
And he’s obviously an asshole. But unfortunately, that won’t get you fired in Kansas.
IslandBrewer:
May 21st, 2012 at 2:57 pm
As deplorable as this guy’s views are, and as odious as his non-statements about his heart/spleen/whatever organs pulse in his viscera, I don’t want to condemn his teaching career for statements made outside the classroom and school campus.
I’ve seen far too many good teachers condemned for things associated with them outside of the teaching sphere. The student teacher who lost her job because of a facebook photo of her holding a red party cup, and the former escort turned teacher in New York are just a couple examples. I firmly believe that teachers should have a private life and enjoy the freedom to be as offensive as anyone else with repurcusions on their career.
I wonder how many hyperchristian parents have called in to complain about Hemant Mehta’s Evil Atheistic baby-eating activities. He, fortunately, doesn’t seem to have been hurt career-wise by that. I don’t want to establish a double-standard for this chump, as attractive as that might be.
Of course, I doubt this guy prevents his views from leaking into the classroom. For something like that should get him booted. He certainly isn’t a guy I’d want teaching my kids. But if the only complaint I had was something from his facebook posts, I’m not sure I should necessarily be able to do anything about it.
However, if he can teach a classroom without saying or doing anything that crosses the line, I don’t want to establish a heightened scrutiny for teacher’s private lives.
IslandBrewer:
May 21st, 2012 at 3:02 pm
My school district doesn’t have a policy prohibiting it. I’m not entirely sure I’d be in favor of it, but I can see the argument. I’d certainly not make a fuss if my school district instituted this policy.
If this guy’s district did, he should certainly be shown the door.
Stevarious:
May 21st, 2012 at 3:03 pm
It’s freaking Kansas. There are part of the state where they haven’t gotten around to enforcing the rules banning the teachers from having sex with the middle school students. Why would they care about Facebook?
raven:
May 21st, 2012 at 3:06 pm
“Judge not lest you be judged”, Matthew and Luke.
or
John 8:7 (Jesus speaking)… and said to them, “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her. ..
The haters for jesus never pay any attention to their magic book unless it is convenient.
FWIW, being gay is a bad as being a disobedient child, atheist, nonvirgin bride, sabbath breaker, or false prophet, according to the magic book.
That shriveled black thing he means. We understand way too well, we see it every day.
dingojack:
May 21st, 2012 at 3:11 pm
IslandBrewer – did you miss: “… his Facebook page, where many of his friends included his [MIDDLE SCHOOL] students …”?
Sounds like he wasn’t just having a drunken conversation with his adult friends at a private party, he was expressing these views to his own students on a forum open to them.
While I agree one should be allowed to have a private life as a teacher, that private life SHOULD NOT involve your early teenaged students, because it is a conflict of interest and because it could be seen (and legally pursued*) as being ‘inappropriate’.
Dingo
—–
* rightly or wrongly
gshelley:
May 21st, 2012 at 3:28 pm
It’s not uncommon for them to say that all sin is equal in the eyes of God. Many accept the “free will” argument as why there is so much suffering in the world, and that only works if in god’s eyes, there is no difference between the most heinous torture and murder, stealing a candy bar, or calling someone an idiot.
raven:
May 21st, 2012 at 3:36 pm
So, being a bigoted, hate filled teacher in Kansas named Jack Conkling is as bad as being a murderer. Or even as bad as being…gasp, horrors, GAY!!!
It’s a good thing god didn’t write our laws then. Jack Conkling would be doing a life sentence in prison unless Kansas executed him.
Of course, since no humans are without sin, if all sins were equal, we would all be in prison for life. Hmmmm, does anyone know where Heaven’s prison is located. It couldn’t be the earth now, could it?
Uncle Glenny:
May 21st, 2012 at 3:56 pm
IslandBrewer -
This was reported here and at fking HuffPo. Other students already saw it. The cat is out of the bag.
I would not want this attitude to be just shrugged off, especially around middle school students. It’s poisonous. And even if other teachers might privately agree, they can at least make a superficial attempt at civility.
fastlane:
May 21st, 2012 at 4:07 pm
The guy’s a douche. However, I agree that something said on a fb post, even if it’s ‘public’ (which is stupid, but not against the law), should not be grounds for discipline from the school.
eric:
May 21st, 2012 at 4:22 pm
@13 – the article Ed links to says explicitly that his district does not have any regulations/prohibitions regarding friending students on Facebook.
Also, they give the full statement the guy made. IMO its not as inflammatory as Ed’s excerpt makes it out to be, however, Ed’s last point still stands – I can’t see a gay student reading the teacher’s statement (even in its full, less-inflammatory version) and expecting to get equal treatment from the teacher.
I wonder (somewhat rhetorically), if the guy had made an equivalent comment about women (the bible says they’re the root of all evil!) or blacks (sons of Ham!), whether the district would’ve moved so slowly or cautiously to discipline him.
Taz:
May 21st, 2012 at 4:30 pm
He meant murderer in a nice Christian way.
IslandBrewer:
May 21st, 2012 at 4:32 pm
Where do you drop the gate on a teacher’s private life? Do you drop it ‘IF’ a student ‘might’ be able to hear what you say? Do you drop it only when you stray into certain subjects? Should Hemant Mehta’s students be prohibited from attending any of his talks outside of school, or should he recuse himself if any of his students show up? Is a teacher permanently barred from speaking around any school-aged children?
Full disclosure: I teach. I teach in the District where I live, and where my own children go to school. I know many of my students’ parents. Some of my students’ families have come to my house as personal friends. I have known many of my students since they were infants (and yes, it has caused problems – mostly in the “I don’t have to listen to wacky uncle IB” ways). I have babysat for some of my students before they were my students. Several students have played on the same teams as my children.
Because of this familiarity, I have very carefully gone over District policies where I teach. My principal knows that my family is a fixture in this town, and that I know a lot of families personally (mostly through my own kids).
Should I curb my speech with my kids about atheism if some of their friends are around? Should I not ‘friend’ my kids’ friends on Facebook only if they wind up being my students? If they do ‘friend’ me, should I unfriend them for the duration of the school year? (For the record, I don’t subscribe to any service that uses “friend” as a verb.) If there was a policy against FB ‘friending’ one’s own students, I’d follow it, but there’s no such policy in my District (yes, I’ve checked carefully), and there’s no indication that there is in this man’s case. Point to a policy he’s violating, and I’ll jump on the bandwagon to get him fired.
You’re condemning the man because his views are odious (which they are), but I’d like to draw a clear line as to when a teacher is acting as the state, and when we get to act as normal citizens (albeit employees of the school district).
ArtK:
May 21st, 2012 at 4:32 pm
@ fastlane
Much as we’d like to have our “private” lives separate from our work lives, that can’t always be done. Someone expressing views like this, whether outside or inside the school, shouldn’t be working with children. I’d feel this way whether it was a FB post or he got filmed at a Westboro Baptist protest carrying a “Got Hates Fags” sign.
Companies routinely fire people for expressing things on their own time that reflect badly on the company. My employer will very quickly fire me if I start posting on FB how badly run they are — and they would be absolutely right to do that.
Speech has consequences and just because you express yourself outside of the workplace, you aren’t protected from consequences inside the workplace. The employer (school or not) has a duty to maintain a safe and productive workplace. Someone expressing racist other hate views, even on their own time, can have a negative effect on the workplace. Example: I would have a very hard time working with a coworker who I knew carried views like these, even if the views weren’t relevant to our jobs. I have many other colleagues who would feel the same way. A coworker known to carry these views would become a distraction and disruption.
Chiroptera:
May 21st, 2012 at 4:39 pm
Maybe I’m too old to understand this — if so, I apologize — but if this guy wanted a private life, what is he doing posting stuff to Facebook?
Tony:
May 21st, 2012 at 4:54 pm
Homo Straminus:
This made me wonder if Mr Conkling was a perfect child growing up. I’ve known plenty of people who, during the “rebellious” teen years engaged in relatively harmless (though still illegal) activites.
Stealing a pack of gum from the store.
Taking the parents’ car for a ride when you’re under 16.
Using a fake ID to get into bars before the age of 21.
Or in a personal example, attempting-and failing miserably-to steal a PLAYGIRL when I was 15 years old from the local PX on Redstone Arsenal (getting caught and having to cover up the fact that I knew what kind of magazine I was attempting to shoplift in addition to the lectures from mom and dad, as well as the subsequent grounding were more than enough to put the brakes on my attempts to explore my sexuality in such a manner).
Or lying to your parents about your grades.
Or cheating on a test.
Or lying to your male friends about having lost your virginity.
Jack Conkling did *nothing* illegal when he was younger? I suppose its possible, but I’m leaning towards rather unlikely. As he offers no further explanation, one can only assume that one act of theft, one lie, or one case of cheating = being gay = murderer.
So if your are an individual who:
shoplifted a pack of Big League Chew
cheated on a research paper
lied about how big your penis is
or
are gay
All those are equivalent to one another, as well as murder?
The theft of a pack of gum is no different a crime than the murder of a 17 year old young man with Skittles and iced tea?
Cheating on a paper is the same as administering a lethal injection?
Exaggerating the size of your penis to your buddies is the same as murdering a young man because he’s gay?
I’m also curious what place bullying or rape or child molestation has in god’s and Mr Conklings’ eyes…
Tony:
May 21st, 2012 at 4:59 pm
raven:
C’mon, you know god doesn’t care about bigotry, misogyny, child rape, slavery or bullying…
ArtK:
May 21st, 2012 at 5:03 pm
@ Chiroptera
Exactly. You make a very public speech and you accept the consequences of that speech. Sadly, sites like FB create a false sense of intimacy and you may not realize who can read what you’re writing. One’s mental intent for a particular audience doesn’t always match up with the real audience — if you’re saying something in person, you may see that there are people you don’t want to hear what you have to say.
Art’s rule: Never post anything on FB that I wouldn’t be comfortable putting up on a billboard on I405 in West Los Angeles during rush hour.
ArtK:
May 21st, 2012 at 5:08 pm
@ Tony
People like Conkling are very good at assuming forgiveness for themselves while denying it to others. “Hate the sin, love the sinner” extends outward only as far as their own skin. I think it comes from trying to deal with the self-hate that comes from trying to conform to rules that are impossible for real humans.
Tony:
May 21st, 2012 at 5:11 pm
eric:
Given that Ed didn’t take anything out of context, what exactly was so inflammatory in his post?
The above is the full text from his FB post courtesy of Ed’s link. That dreck reads worse than what Ed wrote. “We all deserve hell” alone is a vile thing to say.
And because of his selflessness, he condemns gay men and women so they can go to heaven…???
On a separate note, that same link reveals this:
IMO, this is worse than Conklings’ FB post. There are no words for the type of awful person she is to say something like that.
Emptyell:
May 21st, 2012 at 5:41 pm
A teacher’s behavior and communication with students matters (duh). Whether this occurs in the classroom, on the street or on Facebook. If this guy wants to be a bigoted asshole with his adult friends on Facebook then he should not be friending his students.
Tyrant of Skepsis:
May 21st, 2012 at 6:05 pm
So can he shoot gay people in self-defense then?
Michael Heath:
May 21st, 2012 at 6:14 pm
Jack Conkling should be fired as incompetent prior to our even considering the affects of his defamation of gay people. Specifically this statement:
What an enormous logic fail. We should demand teachers be capable of far more than remedial critical thinking where Mr. Conkling shows he’s yet to achieve even that low bar.
As I’ve repeatedly argued before, critical thinking should be an emphasized topic which runs through K-12, with some stand-alone classes as well. What’s especially frustrating to me is that I perceive teachers at being lower than the midpoint percentile relative to all professionals where I would argue they should be near the top. I think for two three reasons (assuming my observations are roughly accurate):
1) We don’t sufficiently teach and value logic.
2) We don’t sufficiently value the teaching industry
3) Given the first two, especially relative to other professions; the teaching profession appears to me to be a haven for people who seek a profession that doesn’t demand raw intelligence coupled to formally developed and proven critical thinking skills.
Nemo:
May 21st, 2012 at 6:20 pm
@Who Knows? #3:
No, he isn’t. Murder, lying and theft are in Teh Ten Commandments. Homosexuality is in the section that bans wearing polyester.
Jordan Genso:
May 21st, 2012 at 6:31 pm
@32 Tony
I wrote a letter to the editor of my university’s paper back when I was a freshman or sophomore, in response to someone saying that they were offended by something someone else said about Christianity. My response is that the basis for Christianity is offensive to non-believers, as they view all of us as deserving the same punishment as genocidal dictators and the worst people in history, simply because we don’t share their same beliefs.
The responses to my letter were several people writing basically the same thing that Conkling wrote about all of us “deserving” to be punished for eternity, and only Christians will be saved from that fate. For some reason, they didn’t comprehend how that doesn’t make the position non-offensive.
juice:
May 21st, 2012 at 6:39 pm
Is he Catholic? This gets into the division of sins into categories, namely “mortal” and “venial.”
http://www.saintaquinas.com/mortal_sin.html
So basically being fat and lazy is also equal to murder in God’s eyes.
Marcus Ranum:
May 21st, 2012 at 6:39 pm
Equating being gay with murder….
…you know WHO ELSE was a MURDERER?! HITLER.
Yep. Being gay is being as bad as HITLER.
If you’re brain-addled by religion.
kermit.:
May 21st, 2012 at 6:43 pm
Yup. Raised Southern Baptist, here.
All sins indicate that we “have cast God out of our hearts”, and lack the control to refrain from disobedience(1). The severity of the sin doesn’t matter, because it’s disobedience to the King that matters, and yet any sin – including mass murders – can be forgiven by Jesus!(2) Worse, the mere desire to sin is a sin, equal to the act.(3) And of course, thinking that one hasn’t sinned is the sin of arrogance.
And yeah, the Southern Baptist mind is a mess of self-loathing, projection, self-righteous anger at others who do what we really want to do, hypocrisy, and rigid behavior. I was told from birth that we were miserable and loathsome, and should be grateful that God loves us so much.
So to be fair to Conkling, the bible does condemn homosexuality, right along with eating shellfish and wearing mixed fiber clothing. He *did say that eating lobster and shrimp cocktail was as bad as murder, didn’t he? Jesus said (reportedly) that “Not one iota of the law shall be changed until Heaven and Earth have passed away.”
(1) What does that say about their doctrine of freewill?
(2) To which my response was “Then why not be hung for a sheep as for a lamb?” Luckily, I’m not a sociopath.
(3) Born-agains are pretty good at diverting thoughts, thought stoppage, denialism, reinterpreting emotions and behaviors, and just not looking inward a whole heck of a lot.
Tony:
May 21st, 2012 at 6:54 pm
kermit:
Am I correct in thinking that Southern Baptists believe all humans are born into sin? If so, were you ever told how babies can cast god out of their hearts? I would think one would have be further along intellectually than a baby to be capable of casting out Sky Daddy J.C.
Tony:
May 21st, 2012 at 6:57 pm
Michael Heath @35:
Is there a way to agree with you more than 100%?
I had a conversation at work recently about that very topic and I brought up much of what you speak to in your post.
Akira MacKenzie:
May 21st, 2012 at 7:05 pm
There’s nothing you can do, christoburschka. It’s Chinato… I mean, Kansas.
gmacs:
May 21st, 2012 at 8:46 pm
A teacher is FB friends with Middle-school students!?!?
I’ve never heard of a high school, let alone a middle school that didn’t have a policy prohibiting this.
I have: every school I’ve ever attended. I am FB friends with former teachers.
I wonder how many hyperchristian parents have called in to complain about Hemant Mehta’s Evil Atheistic baby-eating activities. He, fortunately, doesn’t seem to have been hurt career-wise by that.
But Hemant is the Friendly Atheist. This isn’t about the teacher’s religion or advocacy for his religion. He has called people murderers. I think if Hemant were to say all Christians were murderers, he would (and probably should) get in trouble. Additionally, a teacher with a party cup or with a not-so-squeaky-clean past is very different from a teacher who is currently spouting hatred. There is nothing wrong with an adult drinking unknown fluids out of a solo cup, and a former escort probably isn’t going to attempt to corrupt her students.
IslandBrewer:
May 21st, 2012 at 11:30 pm
But do you see what you’re doing here? You are trying to segregate behaviors based on what you perceive as ultimately harmful or not, based on your values. The law doesn’t and can’t work that way.
Whether or not a teacher should be reprimanded professionally needs to be based on either (1) his/her activities while acting on behalf of the state (on the job as a taxpayer funded teacher), or (2) contractual violations of his employment based on the policies he agreed to when he was hired. Possibly in some cases if (3) the teacher is an immediate and demonstrable danger to a student.
And no, if Hemant said “All Christians are murderers” in one of his own talks, I don’t think he should get in trouble with his employer, unless there was the perception that he was going to seek retribution(which you couldn’t think of him as doing so, if you ever met him), or somehow made the argument that he was endangering students by doing so.
While you (quite rationally, I may add) go through behaviors and judge, “Oh, this is harmful to students, this one isn’t”, when it comes to the constitutionally protected speech outside the job, even in a public forum where students might hear it, there needs to be a MUCH higher standard for professional retribution.
Investigate what he says in class. He likely let’s this sort of thing slip where he ought not. Beliebers of Jebus don’t mind lying and violating the law, if it serves their lord, typically.
Or – Castigate him in public for being a vile moron who pollutes society. Rent a billboard calling him a worthless pile of poisonous slime unfit to be within shouting distance of children.
But unless you can show he’s a demonstrable immediate danger to students, or has violated a school, district, or state policy, I don’t think he should be reprimanded as a teacher, odious as he may be.
dingojack:
May 22nd, 2012 at 12:39 am
Those of you who have children ask yourself this:
Would you want your children taught by a man who admits he’s a cesspool of ‘Absolute Depravity’? *
Dingo
—–
* cue SLC :D
Alethea H. Claw:
May 22nd, 2012 at 1:19 am
LOL @Nemo! Nicely put.
Sadly I have to be a pedant. (Yes I do, it’s a disability of mine.) It doesn’t ban polyester, it bans mixed fibres. Poly/cotton, cotton/lycra, possum/merino – all of those would work as examples. Deuteronomy 22:11 gives the specific example of wool/linen. LIKE MY PANTS! OMG, my pants are gay!! I might as well be a murderer!
dingojack:
May 22nd, 2012 at 1:38 am
Alethea H. Claw – are you sure your pants aren’t trying to corrupt you*, then kill you?
Dingo
—–
* if all sin is of the same level, why not have the death penalty for every ‘crime’? Murder = death, jay-walking = death, thinking something that could possibly be a crime because I said so, so shut up = death. Makes perfect sense. @@
Also this means that satan is pretty toothless, how can he be ‘the great corruptor’ if one is already corrupt and even the most trivial ‘sin’ is as great as the most heinous?
In this kind of regime where everyone is going to be executed for doing the only things they can do anyway (unless god decides not, apparently randomly), why not be hanged for sheep, rather than a lamb?
It’s a pretty morally dubious regime (with no real grasp of the psychology of managing humans).
gmacs:
May 22nd, 2012 at 2:25 am
IslandBrewer,
You make a series of good points. I suppose I could have realized these points would come up if I’d read the entirety of your post I was criticizing. That was hasty and naive on my part.
I am very much against holding people’s personal lives against them professionally, but I suppose I get blinded by the difficulty with separating bigotry from other aspects on a policy level.
I suppose the more sensible solution to a problem such as this case is to be at least an equally loud voice in support of the gay kids, and to publicly criticize this person without attempts to get him fired.
anubisprime:
May 22nd, 2012 at 7:09 am
And he is still a teacher?…lucky students…or not…as the case maybe!
His employers must be so proud of their policies regarding homophobia!
They must be very proud of him!
democommie:
May 22nd, 2012 at 7:55 am
“if all sin is of the same level, why not have the death penalty for every ‘crime’? Murder = death, jay-walking = death, thinking something that could possibly be a crime because I said so, so shut up = death. Makes perfect sense. @@”
Didn’t the various european and other monarchies sort of go in for that level of criminal “justice” for a number of centuries?
I photograph a local listen to music, buy tchotkes and “art”, eat fried everything and drink way too much festival. One night a few summers back I was approached by an obviously inebrtiated woman who told me that she had seen me taking pictures and didn’t want hers in the paper, ‘cuz she’s a teacher and a photo of her having drunkenfun would not be a good thing. I assured her that NONE of my photos wind up on facebook (unless somebody I allow to use them does that–in violation of TOU) and that she really needed to worry more about he THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE THERE WITH CELL PHONES who WOULD put her photo on facebook. Left unsaid was that a really good way to insure not having your drunkass photo on facebook is to not get shitfaced in public.
What teachers or any other person do in their private lives is nobody’s business but their own. When they MAKE it the public’s business then whatever happens, happens. Think Dixie Chicks (who I admire a great deal) who took the heat for their lack of support for teh Bushco Vaterland.
stace:
May 22nd, 2012 at 8:08 am
Actually that’s pretty much a prerequisite to being a congressperson from Kansas.
harold:
May 22nd, 2012 at 8:10 am
Island Brewer said –
I’m the last person to want to see people fired over bullshit, but I think this guy should be fired.
That sounds despicable, but I’d like to know the context.
However, even in the worst possible context, say something like supervising adults obviously getting drunk with fourteen year olds, it would still be no worse than hateful, bigoted discrimination against an entire group of students.
I was aware of and incredibly angry about this one.
But the good argument against firing this teacher does not in any way apply to the case of a teacher publicly spewing bigotry against his own students.
Raven –
Yes, it’s hardly worth bothering to mention, but his own magic book actually makes it clear that lying, cheating and murdering are worse than homosexuality. Those are all singled out for the Ten Commandments, whereas homosexuality is ambivalently in the section against cheeseburgers and cotton/silk blends, and also in some stuff that Paul wrote after Jesus died, in which every other possible human activity, including heterosexual sex, is also condemned.
eric:
May 22nd, 2012 at 8:43 am
IslandBrewer @25:
I think Facebook has a pretty obvious, binary gate. Have a page and say what you want; don’t friend current students.
If you think about it, this is very parallel to older, non-tech guidelines. If you see a student at a restaurant, no big deal, carry on. Say hello. If they overhear your conversation or see you wearing some political/religious shirt, that’s life. But don’t invite them out to dinner and give them your political/religious message. This guy invited current students to be part of his personal life. There was some moment where he actively, consciously, chose to click ‘yes’ to some current student’s friend request. I think its perfectly okay to hold him responsible for his messaging in that case.
Tony @32:
IMO, Ed’s post made it sound like the guy considered homosexuality to be especially evil, but clearly he doesn’t. He sees a wide range of things as equally evil, one of which is being gay. That’s a crazy position, but its not the crazy position I think a normal reader would infer from Ed’s post.
Please keep in mind that this is a quibble. As I stated before, I’m in agreement with Ed’s central point, that gay students could not really expect fair treatment from this guy after such statements and that it undermines the neutrality of the ‘state as teacher.’
TCC:
May 22nd, 2012 at 9:24 am
I’m not even remotely surprised by this. The likely reference here is from I Corinthians 6:
(Never mind that “men who practice homosexuality” is a paraphrase of two terms, malakoi and arsenokoitai, which are both hapax legomena.)
It is, however, not by any means a universal position that all sins are the same even if you accept the claim that any sin, however small, is deserving of hell.
kermit.:
May 22nd, 2012 at 10:34 am
Tony: Am I correct in thinking that Southern Baptists believe all humans are born into sin? If so, were you ever told how babies can cast god out of their hearts? I would think one would have be further along intellectually than a baby to be capable of casting out Sky Daddy J.C.
Yes, although exactly how that works out is somewhat fuzzy (as is much of their doctrine). People are not considered guilty until they can make informed decisions. Infants, no, junior high students, yes. How about two year-olds? There seems to be no clear indicator. I was “born again” and baptized at age nine, which was younger than average, but I was somewhat precocious and the preacher’s grandson, so it was accepted. Too bad for the eight year-olds who die of fever or accident, I guess. Mentally incapacitated folks seem to be exempt also. But in their doctrine God will sort them out, so we don’t have to worry about it too much.
That means, however, that the pressure is on for the kids. They soon realize that if they are old enough to make the decision, they’re old enough to be punished by eternal torture for dawdling, and better make a public announcement. Which helps lock them in mentally to this mindset.
dave:
May 22nd, 2012 at 10:52 am
Harold@53
Re:Student Teacher getting fired:
The court opinion from her suit against her school is available here.
Reading it over, it is not quite as simple as holding a plastic cup: She posted a picture holding a cup, which she admitted contained alcohol, while wearing a pirate outfit and labeled the picture, “Drunken Pirate” on her myspace page. This after posting to the same page criticism of her supervisor (which according to the court opinion figured more significantly in her dismissal from the student teaching position than the picture) and knowing that her students looked at her page. In fact, she had several times discussed her page with her students, and had been told not to do that. She also had been informed at the beginning of the student-teaching program that she should not discuss her students or her teaching in her personal web-page and that others had been removed from the program for just that. Finally, according to the opinion, she had been getting poor evaluations all along.
jnorris:
May 22nd, 2012 at 5:43 pm
WTF was he doing letting his students, ages 11 to 14 perhaps, be his friends on his personal Facebook page? The kids as FB friends will get him a reprimand. The bigotry should get him fired/martyred.
billydee:
May 22nd, 2012 at 6:13 pm
#38: I remember I was twelve in Catholic school when I found out I was committing a sin “crying to god for vengeance.” I was living in one of the most violently racist areas of Chicago. We had moved there from an integrated neighborhood when I was 10. A few weeks after we moved in I was playing outside and a car with black people drove down our street. Kids as young as five picked up rocks and hurled them as well as the worst racial epithets I had ever heard at the car. I was in shock. That my sucking cock* was crying to god for vengeance yet this blatant, ugly hatred was never mentioned made me realize how fucked up the church was.
*I was sexually precocious. I knew I was gay when I was 11, although, looking back, there were signs going back to at least kindergarten, when I started noticing that some boys were cuter than others.
billydee:
May 22nd, 2012 at 6:14 pm
I wonder if this teacher is related to the other educator, Osgood Conkling?
leonardschneider:
May 22nd, 2012 at 11:53 pm
“Also, I know in my heart that God has called me to spend lots of time around young teenage girls wearing shorts and tank tops.”
- J. Conkling