Staver: Gay Marriage ‘Beginning of the End of Western Civilization’


A few weeks ago, Mat Staver, the dumbest lawyer in America not named Larry Klayman, came to Michigan for the annual gathering of the American Decency Association. Naturally, he came armed with dystopic predictions of the terrible damage same-sex marriage will do to the world.

Changing the definition of marriage is like trying to do away with gravity, Staver said. “It doesn’t matter how many opinions or how many votes you have for that, you can’t change God’s natural created order.”

“We’ve never been in this situation before,” he warned. “We will not be able to escape the coercive nature of this issue. It is cataclysmic in its change effect. It is, I believe, ultimately the beginning of the end of Western Civilization if we adopt this as a country.”

The end of Western civilization! You know what will happen if we allow gay people to get married? Virtually nothing. A few hundred thousand gay people will get married. Their kids will have more financial stability and legal protections. And that’s about it. The world isn’t going to come to an end, God isn’t going to punish us for it and dogs and cats will not begin living together. And all these predictions of impending doom are gonna look pretty silly.

Comments

  1. Chiroptera says

    Huh. Except for the first sentence mentioning gay marriage, the quoted passages sound a lot like how I describe anthropogenic global climate change.

  2. jambonpomplemouse says

    If only there was a country, close to American in both proximity and culture, that has had same-sex marriage for nearly a decade, that they could use as an example of all of the effects that gay marriage has (or more accurately, does not have) on a country. If only these conservative Christians had something like that!

  3. tsig says

    God may not have any clout but reality swings a big stick and the reality is we are pissing away our nations wealth in the desert while doing our best to not educate a whole generation. Our infrastructure corrodes while we spend borrowed money on military toys that cannot buy us security but can certainly bankrupt us.

  4. blf says

    You know what will happen if we allow gay people to get married? Virtually nothing.

    Nuts. I was hoping Rationality would triumph, Magical Sky Faeries would (and politicians) would vanish, Armies and other penis extenders would be laughed out of existence, and all peas would be rocketed into the Sun.

  5. says

    That’s what I think whenever I hear these apocalyptic predictions. And it’s been over a decade now that we’ve had marriage equality. And yet, it just occurred to me that they actually would see what’s happening in Canada as further signs that they’re right. To them, having an openly married gay woman elected as the “governor” of the largest and wealthiest “state” of a country, having the leader of a major party (and likely the next head of government) declare that all the party’s candidates in the next election must be prepared to vote pro-choice on any bill, that same party announcing plans to legalize marijuana across the country if elected…all that would seem like moral decay on steriods to the fundies. Their kind of civilization is ending. And about time.

  6. says

    Well he is at least half right. That part of Western civilization previously dominated by idiots like Mat Staver is beginning to collapse under the weight of its own bullshit.

  7. Pierce R. Butler says

    Staver, don’t be silly.

    A man of your white hairs knows damn well that civilization began to end when the US failed to ban comic books!

  8. Anthony K says

    If only there was a country, close to American in both proximity and culture, that has had same-sex marriage for nearly a decade, that they could use as an example of all of the effects that gay marriage has (or more accurately, does not have) on a country.

    Oh, fuck! Legalizing gay marriage leads to Harper governments!

    Americans! Turn back to God’s law before it’s too late!

  9. iangould says

    “It doesn’t matter how many opinions or how many votes you have for that, you can’t change God’s natural created order.”

    I agree that’s why I believe we need laws making it illegal to work on the Sabbath or to charge interest.

  10. says

    God changed his own supposed law if the Bible is anything to go on. After all a number of figures in the Old Testament had more than one wife. Good old King David had lots of wives. Yet later Bible types seemed to only have one, and at least one of New Testament folks seemed to think marriage itself was kind of icky, to be avoided if possible.

  11. Synfandel says

    Anthony K wrote, “Oh, fuck! Legalizing gay marriage leads to Harper governments!”

    And yet Dear Leader has the shrewd political sense to lay down the law to his Conservative caucus that his government will not re-open debate about gay marriage or abortion, because he knows that the vast majority of Canadian voters are way ahead of his base on those issues and that doing so would abruptly truncate his time living at 24 Sussex Drive.

  12. matty1 says

    You only have to change one word of Ghandi’s famous quote about British civilization.

    What do you think of western civilization?
    I think it would be a very good idea

  13. Jackie says

    When I look at the hate and bigotry of the history of western civilization, all I can think in response to his claim is ,”Good. Burn it to the ground and start over”. If same sex couples, racial equality and women having bodily autonomy are destroying my culture, my culture needs to be destroyed because it is built on suffering and inequality.
    Good riddance. We can do better.

  14. magistramarla says

    Looks at the big German Shepherd and the two cats sleeping peacefully together in front of the window:
    Ed, I hate to break it to ya, but in my house the dog and cats are living happily together.

  15. hunter says

    What’s actually going to end Western civilization is climate change. The Pentagon was doing projections in the 90s about droughts and the resultant population shifts from land that was no longer farmable to land that was.

    As for Staver — excuse me, that’s not “the” definition of marriage, that’s “a” definition of marriage. There are others, most of which make more sense and display a greater respect for humanity than consigning us to the status of breeding stock.

  16. RickR says

    “It doesn’t matter how many opinions or how many votes you have for that, you can’t change God’s natural created order.”

    If that’s true, then what the fuck are you going on about???

  17. smrnda says

    That he compares marriage with gravity makes it clear that he’s got a problem distinguishing physical laws to things he *thinks are natural.* the first you aren’t going to get around. If you repeal gravity, it’s still there. Marriage is a social convention and has changed and will change.

  18. thebookofdave says

    Nobody expects to get rid of gravity. I just want to suspend it long enough to push Mat Staver off earth, and let him return to his home planet.

  19. Nick Gotts says

    in my house the dog and cats are living happily together. – magistramarla@17

    Well clearly, it’s that sort of violation of God’s created order that has led to gay marriage!

Leave a Reply