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MacArther Tells Christians to Shun Gay Children

John MacArthur, pastor of Grace Community Church in the San Fernando Valley in California, is telling his followers that they should browbeat and ultimately shun their adult children who are gay. But it all depends on whether they’re Christian or not.

Speaking on his YouTube channel Grace to You, MacArthur said: ‘If that adult child professes Christ, claims to be a Christian, then that becomes an issue for confrontation of the sternest and strongest kind.

‘If the person doesn’t repent and turn, you take two or three witnesses and confront again. If there’s still no repentance, you tell the church, and the church pursues. And if there’s still no repentance, then there’s a public putting out of the church of that person who professes to be a Christian.’

‘If they profess to be a Christian, you have to alienate them. You have to separate them. You can’t condone that. It’s inconsistent with Christ.’

He added, ‘So you isolate them, you don’t have a meal with them, you separate yourself from them. You turn them over to Satan as it were as scripture says.’

However if the gay child is a non-believer, parents should treat them as a non-believer.

He says parents should ‘bring the gospel compassionately, directly, confrontationally, to expose that sin, and all over sins, and call that person to salvation and repentance.’

‘In that case, you might want to spend more time confronting and showing compassion but calling for salvation,’ he added.

Because that’s what Jesus would do, amirite?

Comments

  1. says

    riardelguru,

    Clearly, he’s drawing on Paul’s letter to the 1 Corinthians 5.

    9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister[c] but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

    12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”[d]

  2. greenspine says

    As Dan Savage says, you can’t bully a child into heterosexuality, but you can bully them into suicide.

    By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

  3. culuriel says

    Any precedent for getting a restraining order on parents/congregations for religious harassment? ‘Cause that’s where I see this headed.

  4. laurentweppe says

    As Dan Savage says, you can’t bully a child into heterosexuality

    The goal is not to bully them into heterosexuality, the goal is to bully them int loveless but socially acceptable marriages. An adulterous gay man cuckolding his wife with rent-boys won’t be shunned.

  5. keithb says

    Actually he is referring to the words of Jesus in this passage:
    “If your brother or sister[b] sins,[c] go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’[d] 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.”
    Matthew 18:15-18

    But richardelguru at #1 got me thinking, the whole idea of shunning comes from the “treat them as a pagan or tax collector”. Should we treat the ‘sinner’ like the *audience* would treat the pagan or tax collector? Or like *Jesus* would treat the pagan or tax collector?

    Most Fundamentalists and Evangelicals would use the first meaning.

  6. bmiller says

    keithb:

    We need to stop allowing liberal Christians to claim that the Christian religion is fundamnetally good and kind. It is not. One can, with difficulty and sophistry, find ways of interpreting it that way. Some argue that many of the “better” passages were added later to sugar coat the messages.

    Fundamentally, though, Christianity is based on this premise:

    “Created Sick…Commanded to be Well”.

    So….the fundamentalists are actually closer to the spirit in Matthew. Keep in mind they are talking about a child who refused to “repent” (i.e., choose the socially preferred sexual interest) They were given a chance, but they disobeyed the cult leader so shunning is the solution!

  7. says

    You haven’t lived until you’ve gone to a nice shunning. Heck, I make friends with people just so I can shun them. There’s nothing like an Inflated Sense of Moral Superiority.
    Sure, you lose a son or daughter, but on the other hand what if you supported them? They might settle down with a member of the same sex! And after that they might get a dog! I know!

  8. Pen says

    I don’t know why someone like this would have any credibility when he goes round casting aspersions on the parenting skills of gay people. Which I’m sure he would.

  9. raven says

    Matthew 7:1-3
    New International Version (NIV)

    Judging Others

    Jesus speaking:
    7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

    3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

    Dueling bible trivia. According to Matthew and Luke, you aren’t supposed to judge other people less you be judged.yourself.

    OK, I’m judging John MacArthur who Tells Christians to Shun Gay Children

    Raven tells xians and normal people to shun John MacArthur. I have as much spiritual authority as he and the Pope together do.

  10. raven says

    MacArther Tells Christians to Shun Gay Children

    Well, so what. Who is John MacArthur and why should anyone care? Random internet commenter tells normal people to run from John MacArther.

    Xians and xianity have been splitting friends and families apart since 33 CE.

    When you leave the more authoritarian cults, Mormons, JW’s, fundie xian, you frequently leave all your friends and family behind, including your spouse and children sometimes. Divorce is rather common. It’s hard and undoubtedly keeps many people from openly running for the doors.

    To cite one gruesome example, my college friend’s parents decided she was a lesbian and the father tried to strangle her, pulled off by the mother. That was the end of their parent child relationship. I don’t know if she ever saw them again, but do know she was afraid of them.

    The irony is that she wasn’t even remotely gay. Her problem was being too boy crazy.

  11. busterggi says

    “However if the gay child is a non-believer, parents should treat them as a non-believer.”

    Because they love to be close and loving with non-believers?

  12. says

    richardelguru:

    “Dr X so he’s a Paulist not a Christian???”

    Not really. Paul was drawing a distinction between how to deal with community members carrying on scandalously in an ongoing manner, versus those outside the community who should not be subject to community judgment. Which members of Jesus’s community of disciples were known to be ongoing sexual ‘sinners’ while continuing to be embraced by Jesus?

    In any case, the bible is full of contradictions, inconsistencies, stories and claims that don’t easily translate into clear-cut principles. In a sense, you’re making the same mistake that Christians are criticized for, which is to argue based upon their preferred interpretation because it suits their purpose, while pretending any alternative is clearly wrong. You go further by pretending that Paulists and Christians are definitely distinct, which is a view embraced by very few people who consider themselves Christians. The problem here is defining Christians as if there if some convenient, unassailable Scotmen’s definition that resolves all problems of categorization.

    Arguments for and against shunning can be made based upon the bible, which is the situation with many practices and the reason that Christians with often diametrically opposed beliefs can be so sure that their beliefs are the correct “Christian” beliefs.

  13. says

    It’s Pauline. Paulists have bumperstickers about Ron running in the previous election, and if they notice you reading it they’ll tell you all about him running in the next one, making sense for the first few minutes, then scooting off in to kookery. Eventually you have to fake diahhrea as an excuse to get away. But you can’t get away. Ron’s got you. Soon you’re hoarding seeds and canned beans and telling all your friends about The Gold Standard and how everything the government does is illegal.

  14. Sastra says

    However if the gay child is a non-believer, parents should treat them as a non-believer.

    In other words, if your child is a gay Christian then you berate them for being gay. But if your child is a gay NON-Christian then you need focus only on changing them into a Christian, since becoming a Christian will automatically take care of that “gay” problem.

  15. raven says

    But if your child is a gay NON-Christian then you need focus only on changing them into a Christian,

    Makes sense.

    1. If your kid is gay, you bully them into being not-gay.

    2. If your kid is a nonbeliever, you bully them into being a xian.

    3. If your kid is gay and a nonbeliever, you bully them into being a xian.
    Then, you bully them into being not-gay.

    You will either bully your kid into a miserable not-gay fundie xian, bully them into committing suicide or, most likely, they will just move away and send you a Xmas card every decade with no return address.

  16. billydee says

    Modus: I knew a girl named Pauline. Does she count?

    Richardelguru: I bet that Jesus would never sit down and eat with (Re)publicans.

  17. sceptinurse says

    I used to attend a BGC church in the SFV. It was very fundie. We had a women’s bible study in the early ’80′s that was attended for awhile by two women from Grace. They thought we were sadly lacking as Christians because we celebrated gasp! Christmas. MacArthur just goes further and further down the rabbit hole.

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